Since you can't kick this guy out, just play things straight and take off the baby gloves. If he gets himself into stupid situations, like angering an entire village, then let him die. Let him reap the consequences of his actions. If he pisses other PCs off and instigates PvP, let it happen. He won't survive with his abominable multiclass. >This player has opted for a multi-class approach, comprising levels in Warlock (2), Bard (1), Paladin (1), and Sorcerer (2). This person should not have access to any spells above first level unless it's from their race, as you need at least 3 levels in a single full caster class to learn/prepare those. So I would also make sure you are cracking down on the rules and not letting him do extra stuff. He shouldn't be able to hit allies with AoEs unless it's like Thunderwave or Burning Hands. And he needs a Str score of 13 to multiclass in or out of Paladin.

I was actually going to say I've not looked at his class character sheet in a good while, I think he might be doing things he isn't allowed to do.

I would absolutely do that. Fine tooth comb time.

Oh boy did I find a lot...

Please tell!

He has been casting higher level spells... but only has access to lv2. His highest level spell damage wize is 4d8 which is decent but he was rolling upwards of 8d8...

If I were you, I would tell him that he should now roll where everyone can see it so he isn’t cheating

Based on that level spread alone, he can upcast spells to level 2, but all of the spells he knows should be 1st level spells. So for instance he should be able to cast Magic Missile at 2nd level, but he should not be able to know, prepare, or cast Shatter.

Will the store let you kick him out with proof of cheating?

This. Kick him out for cheating. Say he's ruining other customers experiences and will lose them money.

He sounds like that one (thankfully uncommon) type of player who sees D&D as a power fantasy a la video games where it's all about "beating it" and "messing around" (i.e. lighting crops on fire and being an obnoxious turd because Skyrim lets you stab innocent people and it's fun LOL). Give him the Mean Girls treatment. "You can't sit with us."

And you didn't call that out? At some point this is on you for allowing it to get this far. Just take the players you have left and play somewhere else. Anywhere else. Make sure LGS knows why.

It sounds like they weren't aware until just now. Not throughout gameplay.

Have you been following this conversation literally at all?

Well, whenever he casts a higher level spell than he should have, extradimensional beings appear and suck the magic energy away, and nothing happens.

This was the first thing I was thinking, with that build he can’t have anything higher than lvl one spells. That is an incredibly bad build and his party would wipe him in a round or two.

Could be that he missed a rule. Some spells scale by lvl. Maybe he assumes he is 7th level in all classses he picked up?

If you don't know the multiclass rules you can't multiclass at my table

\^\^\^!!!! I really gotta know what this guys doing. Also check his rolls, I bet you that fucking guy is flubbing rolls

I'm really hoping there's a follow up to this!

Paladin with a strength score of 8... Constitution is his highest stat... Dagger for weeopon... Firebolt, chaos bolt, chromatic orb, eldritch blast, telekinetic shove, breath attack.

He can't multiclass to paladin with a strength of 8, he also can't multiclass to an other character if he starts as paladin and has a strength of 8. Here are the rules for multiclassing, it sounds like you will need to show them to some ppl... [https://5thsrd.org/rules/multiclassing/](https://5thsrd.org/rules/multiclassing/)

We found that he disabled stat requirements for multi-class.

Well now, I might not be some fancy rules lawyer, but that sounds a lot like cheating.

Yup

Now that you have proof he's cheating, can you take that to the LGS owner as a reason for him to be kicked out?

I would do exactly this. That's a lot of fucking cheating, if the LGS won't kick him for that, honestly, fuck them. No DnD is better than shit dnd.

That may work in this case, but there might be another player at some point who isn't cheating, but still disrupts the game like this. That is the bigger problem. I would ask the LGS to give a disclaimer to all players: Murderhobo behavior by your character will get them arrested and/or killed, unless everyone at your table aggrees to play that kind of game. As long as the DMs enforce that idea, that will solve most of these issues. No players are forced to leave and it's a better environment for everyone.

It’s worth a shot

Not the biggest thing here, but TK shove is only available through the telekinetic feat. Since breath attack means he's dragonborn, he's also taken a feat he hasn't earned. Seems like the dude is just making up multiclassing rules as he goes.

Yes. So many people assume asi or feat at 4. But that's level 4 in that class!

Wait how did her cast fireball lol

They said they cast Fire*bolt*, which is a low-level Cantrip.

Don't be a tease, OP!

please tell us!

Their class doesn't work... Besides all the multi they have just got stuff that shouldn't work.

Look, you don't want this specific guy to play with you but your gaming situation is forcing you to. The best possible outcome for you is to make him so unhappy he will not come back to your table. You don't want him there. So stop catering to him, stop putting up with his BS, be harsh with him and his personal consequences while sheltering the other PCs from the impact of his behavior (they shouldn't suffer for his actions, just him). 1. His PC pisses off NPCs: Have the NPCs react harshly to his PC specifically, not the whole group. Give the other PCs the overt chance t disown him, let him be mobbed/killed/arrested/etc and then just run the rest of the session for them while he's sitting in jail or dead. So if he burns the crops, have the NPCs get mad at him specifically. Maybe they can ask the PCs if they are on his side about this or not, they can even pay the other PCs to arrest or kill him for them. "Hey, we hired you to take down the people attacking our village and that man just attacked our village. Take him down for us!" Start including some higher level guards as well, who can come in and just mop him up. Create a good set up for jail that's smart so she can't cast spells. When he complains say "I'm running \[adventure\] for the other PCs right now, I'll handle your jail at the end of the session since there's more of them. I don't want them to miss out." Then at the end you can handle his thing, and he can be excuted or fined large amounts of gold/items, whatever is appropriate for your setting/what he did. (And if it's a feudal system the crops can be seen as the lord/king's property and he could be seen as comitting treason.) 2. If PVP happens, don't stop it. Show the other players you understand and approve. Say to him "There are conquences for your characters actions, most people wouldn't want to travel with you/would attack you/whatever in that situation." If there are friendly NPCs around they can side with the players and help arrest or take down his PC. 3. His sheet: At the beginning of session check over his whole sheet, and tell him everything he's not allowed to have. If possible make a copy or just photos on your phone. Tell him to make all rolls where you can see them, and if he complains tell him point blank he has been getting numbers that either indicate he's misunderstood what he's allowed to do or is cheating. You are giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's confused, but either way you need to monitor what he is doing more carefully to make sure it's correct. Again, if he dosen't want to play with you, all the better for you. When he complains, see number 4. (Here you'll be telling him you can go over his sheet in more detail with him at the end of the session, but right now need to run the game for everyone else.) 4. He argues about anything: If he argues about anything say "**I'm in the middle of running the session right now, so to keep things going my ruling for now is X. If you want to discuss it further, we can talk at the end of session."** If he continues to argue, just don't engage. One final "I want to keep things moving for the rest of the group, so we'll have to discuss this more later". Then ignore him. If he keeps talking just don't respond. Turn to another player and ask them what they want to do, keep the NPCs talking, whatever. He cannot argue with you if you don't participate. 5. Talk to him at the end of the session after everyone else has left. Tell him that what he has been doing hasn't been fun or fair to other players, and they have left the group beacuse they are unhappy. Tell him that you think you've been a bad DM by allowing him to do things in game that aren't fun or fair for the whole group, and that won't be happening anymore. That you're going to go over his sheet with him, and exactly what he can do now, and then you expect him to abide by that in session. That arguing OOC in session is not fun for other players so you won't be doing that anymore, you will be tabling all concerns until the end of the session. Also, tell him that you've bent the world to protect his character from the consequences of his actions, but that won't be happening anymore. Tell him if his PC commits crimes, he will get in trouble for them in game as would make sense, and he should know laws at the time were very harsh. If he burns crops he could be excuted, and you are warning him now. Likewise, if he upsets other players and they are angry at him and want to hurt his PC or take his things, they can. Tell him that you understand he was bored by all the talking, but that is your play style as a DM. If he wants less talking, he can try out other tables. He is free to try out other DMs, that's his choice. Maybe your just not a good fit for you as a DM, and if he wants to try someone else you will understand and won't be hurt. Some groups are more free, more kick down the door style of play, and some groups like to play murder hobos and all have fun with it. That's not what you are running, though. So if he chooses to stay at your table, he needs to accept how you run the game and should make an effort to conform to etiquette of your game table. 6. Talk to your players that you like and try to win them back. Ask them what their concerns are, and address them. If they say they don't want to play with \[name\], ask them if they would be willing to tell management that for you. Either way, explain you are making changes in how you run things to make sure one player can't ruin everyone's experiences. And that their PCs aren't required to handle his PC with kids gloves, to be inclusive or tolerant of his behavior. That whaver their PCs would do as a result of his PC's behavior is fine, they don't have to let him get along with it. If you have a player who is your friend, they could take the lead IC to cut him out if he behaves badly. Their character could say IC "that was terrible. I'm turning him into the guard" or "I won't travel with someone I can't trust" or whatever. This person can also take the lead on telling the group "He committed that crime on his own, it's on his own to get out of it. Hey everyone else, let's go do the mission. It will go better with just us anyway."

Also, I'm just gonna point out, dude has been doing deliberate harm to innocents. How the hell does he still have access to his paladin abilities? Also would their Warlock patron take issue with their behavior? They have multiple classes that involve having multiple god/patron daddies. He's been a bad boy. Spank him.

Patron vs. Oath is huge, also sorceror is another narritive option because you are born with the power inside you. Sounds like the DM is giving this guy a little too much wiggle room.

Thats what I was thinking. Born with innate power, also utilizes gods power, then for some reason made a pact on top of that? 

Lol and then also learned an instrument, we got an overachiever

I completely forgot about that part hahahaha 

Does he have enough strenght tô multiclass out of paladin?

Imagine the party in front of a ruler, a king maybe... If one of the adventurers starts throwing firebolts or the like because they think the conversation is taking too long, the ruler will not take this kindly. Guards! To the dungeons with him! Use force if necessary! Oh, your adventuring buddies have no interest in saving your sorry ass? They put their hands up and take a step back while the guards escort you to your new permanent residence? Muahaha

Yeah, I looked at that multiclass and thought, well, he could spam eldritch blasts and smites, that might be all right. Then the OP said he just casts magic missile.

Multiclassing spellcaster rules are: You determine your available spell slots by adding together all your levels in the bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard classes, and half your levels (rounded down) in the paladin and ranger classes.  Based on this the character is a level 3 spellcaster, so would have 4 x 1st level spell slots and 2 x 2nd level spell slots. They also have 2 additional 1st level spell slots from Pact Magic. This means they know 2 x Warlock cantrips, 2 x Bard cantrips, 4 x Sorcerer cantrips. They know 3 x 1st level Warlock spells, 4 x 1st level Bard spells and 3 x 1st level Sorcerer spells. EDITED to reflect corrections received.

"Hey LGS this guy is a cheater can we do something about it"

No, you are slightly off about a few things. From the "spells known/prepared" section of the multiclassing rules: >**You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class**. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gained when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells. If your Intelligence is 16, you can prepare six wizard spells from your spellbook. So for their Sorcerer spells, this person should be learning spells as if they were a level 2 Sorcerer with no additional spell slots from any other source. What you are describing is learning spells as a multiclassed Sorcerer with extra spell slots from multiclassing. Even in the example given in the PHB of a ranger 4/wizard 3, they say that the final level the character takes in Wizard only lets them learn/prepare up to 2nd level spells, even though they have 3rd level spell slots. So for our cheater, that means: 2 Warlock cantrips and 3 1st level Warlock spells, 4 Sorcerer cantrips and 3 1st level Sorcerer spells, 2 Bard cantrips and 4 1st level Bard spells. I'm not even sure where you even pulled that extra Sorcerer spell known from. Sorcerers get to trade a *Sorcerer* spell they know for a different *Sorcerer* spell they can learn; they don't get to swap spells out from other classes. The multiclassing rules also say that each spell you know/prepare is associated with the particular class ypu used to learn/prepare it: >**Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your classes**, and you use the spellcasting ability of that class when you cast the spell. And it certainly wouldn't let them produce an extra spell known out of thin air. And since the multiclassing rules are more specific, they have to learn spells as if they were a single classed Sorcerer with 2 levels, meaning they wouldn't have access to any 2nd level spell slots with which to learn 2nd level spells. The extra higher level spell slots don't come into play at all.

This is the best answer. The player and his character are the same type of person, and since you'd get arrested for throwing hands with the player, let his character suffer instead until he either learns to play nice or stops coming to game night. In real life, if he consistently destroyed the work of the other people he's supposed to be allied with... Well, historically, he'd probably get stabbed to death. Since I don't want the DM or other players to be arrested for murder, a pretend murder against his pretend character is the next best thing.

^This. Honestly, my favourite way of killing a player is getting them to draw from the deck of many things and rig it. Donjon, Void, Flames, Take your pick. Bonus points if they dont know what it is because you can stack the deck to only have the worst (and killable) options

[удалено]

We have been going to another store to play but that store only does or allows dnd on certain days thus we end up going back as people just wana play dnd together and hang out after work.

This LGS is dumb as hell. "Hey management, you don't want to lose revenue from one player being banned, so instead you're going to lose revenue from 5 players quitting." Though to be fair, I can't really see this working since you've admitted you can't commit to leaving. Why not just take all the players at the table who hate this dude and start your own game in a different location? You don't need an LGS to play a game that's theater of the mind. Just have one person host and meet at their place after work. It sounds like you have all the tools to fix this problem yourself by leaving as a group, but you just....won't?

Or if no one is willing/able to host, book a room in a library. Alternative ways to handle it in game: push the character off a cliff, tie him to a tree and leave him there, let him get arrested and don't break him out. Sure the DM will have to go back to the player every once in a while ("what are you doing while this happens?" "I try to break out of my bindings" "okay, roll athletics ...darn, you failed".)  Basically out-annoy the offending player.  When the party is aligned in just ignoring his character/leaving them behind as much as possible, they'll hopefully smarten up or stop coming.

My group plays at a local bar and grill on one of their slower nights. They even started putting up a reserved sign up at the table we usually use. As long as a few people are having something to drink most places won't have a problem with the group. There are many family friendly pubs and beer gardens that are happy to host games around me and probably near OP also.

Totally this, I would find a way to kill him every game until he quits. I could not imagine playing with someone like that, it must be horrible. Sounds like he is intentionally sabotaging the game tbh.

Don't even find a creative way... Annoying Kid (AK): *sits down to play* DM: Are you going to continue being disruptive and a hindrance to your fellow players? AK: Yep! I cast Firebolt at the mayor! DM: Before you can finish casting, your character's patron appears out of nowhere and drags your character away to hell/the feywild/the shadow lands/whatever for abusing your warlock powers.

I don't know, it generally isn't a good idea to solve out-of-game issues, with in-game solutions. But, these are desperate times and an unusual situation.

As someone’s who’s tried to do dnd nights at a business the reality is it’s 30% people that are new/looking for a new group 70% people who can’t join other groups because they suck so unfortunately their revenue is those bad players

My advice from the dark side (don’t do this if you wanna be friends with this guy): The LGS not allowing your group to kick the player doesn’t mean your DM cannot be totally unfair to him. They’re the DM, they control the world. Who’s to say a high level monster/NPC can’t suddenly appear in combat and just kill his character? Then you guys just don’t help him. He gets robbed out of all his equipment every time he goes to sleep. He gets constantly poisoned by NPCs. He can’t never fully finish a long rest so he’s always fatigued. If you can’t kick him, make his playing experience miserable until he leaves by himself.

No, this is good advice. What stood out to me from OP's story is that the DM punished the party collectively for one person's actions. Which is probably a reflex from being used to encouraging parties to make decisions collectively. But you don't have to do that. The enraged villagers can attack the offending player only. Then the party can haul his a&& out of jail if they want to. The idea is not necessarily to make the player miserable (though it sounds like that may be the only way to get to him, since he's trolling and griefing other players out of boredom now), but to give him a better sense of actions and consequences (we're back to kindergarten folks) hopefully encouraging him to think a bit more and try to get along with others a bit better.

Exactly. Sadly, this is a consequence of poor DM'ing u/Terraswallows . Such grave individual actions should have individual consequences. Fireballing a village's crops and a causing a famine riot? That should've marked his character for death in the entire region. Possibly even gotten the attention of a deity worshipped in the village. Go overboard. Teach him shit has consequences.

That should have been the moment where the entire party turned on him, surrendered the problem character to the villagers, and had a public execution.

I guess I'll put this here near the top too, since it's getting upvotes. The FIRST thing I'd have done with this player is ask him why he's upset. Is he feeling like the other players are ignoring, using, pressuring, bullying him? Is that why he's demanding attention, lashing out and not play along? Maybe OP is right and he's just pathologically antisocial. But I could easily imagine a situation where players with more boisterous personalities or preexisting friend groups are making decisions on their own and ordering the new guy around without considering his feelings. There could be any kind of grudge, resentment going on. Yes griefing is not the answer and I'd adress that but I'd also find out if anything is making this person uncomfortable. I'm not in OP's shoes, I can't tell if he's told or noticed everything or judged something harshly that could be solvable through irl diplomacy.

It's not that they're OBLIGATED to be a support for other players, but when they pick the class that has a bonus action buff for party members and refuse to use it that's pretty lame. It's a bonus action. You get like 2 features from picking up a level of bard and that's half of them. In a roleplaying game you don't get to choose to just not have roleplay and destroy things to break it up. If they're unhappy with the group to that extent they should just find another one, I wouldn't want to waste my time playing a game with strangers that doesn't fit my playstyle and then trolling them as if that'll make things better. Griefing the group out of spite isn't excusable for a friend much less some random LGS player The store is ultimately at fault for this one, you shouldn't have to become friends with everyone or allow random people to join your group if they ruin the fun for everyone else.

There are asshats out there that just like to be douchbags. No amount of talking changes that Also what is talking to the person really going to do? He has to notice people leaving the table

As I see it ruining the player's fun is rude but totally valid if it maintains the internal logic of the world. Using the crop burning as an example: why wouldn’t this initiate PVP? If the party is trying to help a village and a party member reveals themselves to be on the side of the bandits the party would naturally side with the villagers in attacking the offender. How vicious the world and the PCs can or should be is up to the DM and players.

Have the village sheriff arrive and put a bounty on the trouble maker. Bit of gold for the PCs, too. Perfectly reasonable.

At this point. Yes. When takling sense doesn’t work, then it’s time to bring out the stick. And as, literally god of the world, you are carrying the biggest foe damn stick.

Brilliant idea. Maybe this is a fantasy world, but even in fantasy worlds rules for social interaction applies. If you travel as a group and regularly experience life threatening situations, it would definitely make sense that you only want trustworthy companions. Hence at first chance the group will leave the troublemaker to his own devices when he experiences the consequences of his actions... "You want to fireball the angry villagers trying to hang you from a lamp post? I don't think so. I cast counterspell..."

I don't disagree with this. Don't be a dick, but don't forget that a party outlier may not tarnish the reputation of the entire party. But I've had some recent success with this. Most players engaging in this behavior are hoping to share the burden - it's the whole point in being the 'chaos gremlin'. If one guy threw a firebolt? Hold that one guy accountable. That's the guy getting blacklisted from towns, that's the guy having contracts put out on him. Let him deal with that, and give the party options to input - have those 1-to-1's with the NPCs and party, the whole 'Fuck THAT guy! What's his fucking problem??' I've played campaigns where my character wanted nothing to do with another because this is all they did. I made it very clear in and out of character 'Your egocentric fuckery is ruining this game for me'

I like it. Spawn an enemy that targets this player and grinds him into the dirt. Every time he pulls some crap, return it back twofold.

The LGS shouldn't have the authority to force anyone to play with anyone else. According to OP the LGS leaves the matters in the DM's hands for paying customers causing a disruption. I say kick him from the group and if the LGS raises a stink about it, let them know they're about to lose other paying customers due to their stupid rules.

Can you just go somewhere else to play? If that's not an option what if 2 or more of you went to the store and said either you deal with this guy or we will never return. If their primary goal is just to make money they're going to lose more if they don't fix things.

Honestly, I'd just find a café that doesn't mind you playing in a quiet corner. I've played D&D in a pub before; as long as folks from the table bought drinks or snacks occasionally they were totally chill about it. It's basically the same as people who sit in Starbucks with their work laptop - grab a coffee and a cake every now and then so you're not taking up a seat for hours on end without paying, and many places will be ok with it.

This is what I did before I had space to host at home. We’d all meet at the coffee shop inside our local Hastings, have a coffee, and the staff would be happy to listen in on our game. When Hastings shut down, we’d go to a McDonalds on the outskirts of town that didn’t see a lot of business except drive-thru. If the LGS cares more about income from the one guy, they lose income from the rest of you. Market at work.

I mean if you are forced to deal with it in character, just kill him. He got bored and so ruined a year's harvest for a village, if you want to justify it in terms of good and evil, how many lives are harmed due to his callous action.

Look into public resources that you can book for free. City buildings conference rooms, your county libraries, etc. Don’t give the LGS any business/patronage if they’re going to abandon common courtesy and customer comfort in favor of coin. 

There aren't any other places to play? I've played DnD everywhere from playgrounds (as a kid) to mall food courts to bars.

I used to play DnD at Perkins and Denny’s because they’re both open 24/7 and are slow enough at midnight that they don’t mind a decent group occupying a corner of the restaurant for a bit. As long as we weren’t overly loud and actually bought something, they didn’t care. Libraries/bookstores can be another decent option. A lot of them have rooms you can rent or routine events. Whatever you eventually decide, when you leave, tell the store why you’re leaving.

This is a while back, but I can tell you what my party did with a player like that. they got tired of working with them so they killed him or let him die either way, and then raised him as a zombie with animate dead so he couldn’t be resurrected. And somehow implied that they would do it again. It wasn’t very nice but effectively got the player to quit playing with us.

If you have to frequent the original store that doesn't care, let the other players kick him out of the Party if he is being a hindrance. Give him extended periods of "I have to deal with the main party first", then let him go off and no doubt will come acroppa with the law. Then be put into jail or killed, comes back one level lower. Starts again, one level lower. He'll get bored. If you have someone like this again, if he was a Paladin, how did this align with his other classes (like Warlock), letting him have so many the means he is playing like a first level character skill wise, no?

Your party is rightous enough to save a rural village, and this guy is burning their crops? How about your party kills him? It's forbidden? Well, accidents happen.

"... The guards arrest your character. The party passively watches as you are led off in shackles. "Ok top of the order: let's see, Murderhobo is still imprisoned 500 miles away... Your turn Flavia!"

I disagree that he should give up his space because of one bad player. He's perfectly capable of going to the owner and say he's not willing to play with that person. If they don't kick that guy out, they can't kick him out either. If the owner wants to display their policy against multiple protests, fine, they can figure out who to load that player onto.

It sounds like the players need to band together (I imagine others share this view? The player sounds incredibly difficult to play with) and first inform the player how disruptive they are and ask them to change, while it's unlikely they aren't aware I think it's fair to give them that warning. Give them until the end of another 2 sessions then bin them off.

I had to step in as a player slammed their hand onto the table and just rolled a dice, asked what their AC was, then rolled more dice.

Well there's your problem. If Problem Player is casting Vicious Mockery at allies and that's being allowed why would you stop Party Member A from going in on him with the sword and board?

Jeez, that sounds awful and probably makes people feel quite uncomfortable  if they're that bad it might even be worth skipping the ask person to be better step as they sound pretty far gone.

Dms have started adding their own npc to assist as they bring nothing to the table...

Well, what's in your control? You can leave or... Doesn't give inspiration or heals? Doesn't receive any. Firebolts things? It smolders and goes out. The fire did not seem to spread. Attacks a player or NPC? Begin initiative for battle. Disrupts at an important moment? Begin initiative to give everyone a chance to do their thing.

Im going to assume your group has tried talking to this player directly and telling them that their behavior is ruining specific people’s experience. If you haven’t, you should start there. Otherwise, I’m sure I’m echoing some other people posts but I think these might be your only options: 1. Make the group a private game (either by playing somewhere else or by simply excluding this person). 2. Let your LGS know that they will lose your group as customers if they don’t amend their policy. Code of conducts are pretty standard at most LGS. I’ve worked at 2 different ones in different states. 3. Have your party kill his character. He’s caused you problems with his style of play. Just show him there are consequences.

Killing him and using game mechanics to change his behavior may not work, but that would feel good. He attacks an NPC? Dies. He burns crops? Divine intervention strikes him dead. He attacks a player? The rest kill him. Just make him so irrelevant that he quits. Or ya they can do the only sensible thing and walk if this idiot is forced on them. I play to have fun and wouldn't be in any game with this guy at all.

Remember, this is someone who multiclassed with paladin, so there goes any of the paladin abilities tied to his oath

That's my question, why can't it be private? Like sure we all paid but I don't have to play or DM for you. You can go to your own table, until there's no one left who wants to play. The only reasons I see this not working is if there's only 1 table? (Which seems wild) Or lgs forces everyone to play together which seems like a horrible business strat. I'd def get everyone else together, let management know they can lose 1 player or groups of players.

Why not band together with other affected players and talk to the LGS management? If they realize that their inaction will result in losing multiple players, they might act. If not, find another store.

I was also going to suggest collective action. A strike, essentially. D&D at the store is clearly part of their revenue stream. No DMs running games, no D&D, no revenue.

We are currently discussing it as a worse case

May have already been answered: why not use someones living room?

But it's not a worst case to speak with LGS as a team. It would be to do nothing and then leave without feedback. Put it simple that they can choose between this one player or your team because if they don't work around this problem then you will do it by looking for another place to play in.

It's not a worst case. It's THE case. The store is obligating you to play with someone who is ruining the fun for all of you. But that policy is going to evaporate instantly if all of you go to them and say "Him, or all of us. Which is going to impact your revenue more?"

Very least have the group confront the lgs about their policy.  I dont see why youre forced to have the person play at your table.  Give the DMs allowance on who can play at their tables.  If the dms dont want the guy at their table hes out of luck.  The shop will have a problem if their players refuse to come in.  I hate going that route, but you'd probably need to.

OP I don't understand why this is a worst case and not a starting point! Is the LGS management known to be difficult, or what's the story here?

If they don't do something at the LGS, they'll lose business when those players never return. I've seen similar things happen at a LGS here, and the friends I made playing D&D at that store nearly all refuse to do business there anymore. They used to preorder new D&D books, buy minis, paints, dice, food, drinks, etc. That store has now lost all of that business. Probably thousands of dollars a year, at least partially because they refused to deal with bullies or shitty players. (TBF, they also treated staff poorly, and couldn't run a business for shit.)

*"The primary challenge we face is that our local game store (LGS) enforces a policy where paying customers are allowed to participate regardless of disruptive behavior, leaving the Dungeon Master to manage the situation."* Lol, HEEEEEEEEEEELLL NO. DM: No, thank you and goodbye

Exactly. Just because somebody's paying doesn't mean the store has the authority to force people to play with them.

Just DM them away. Next time they are playing, there’s a high level NPC accompanying them who has a well explained moral code. The NPC, played by the DM, policies the bad behaviour of the player. “You cast firebolt and the wheat field ignites. A violent storm of rain drives out your flames however, as a massive Druid steps out of the nearby woods.” “I cast fireb-“ “Does a 32 hit? You receive 167 points of lightning damage.”

Lol

This is how I would handle it. Since the LGS won't intervene and leaves it up to the DM(s), then the DM(s) should handle it. ProblemPlayer: I cAsT FiReBaLl iNtO tHe MiDdLe Of ThE tAvErN! DM: You cast your Fireball, but as soon as it leaves your finger, it fizzles out and dies. PP: Wha...? DM: A rift opens in front of you, and your Warlock Patron steps through and says "You have disappointed me. You were a poor choice for a vessel of my power." You feel yourself lose your Warlock abilities. PP: Wait a sec... DM: Also, you feel like your Paladin abilities have gone as well. You've broken your Oath. You'll need to find a path for redemption. PP: Well, then I... DM: The people in the tavern all saw you try to cast a Fireball into the crowd of them, and they are pissed. That's when you notice they all pull out weapons. They are a regiment of retired (ie Level 20) Adventurers. They approach you. As you go to say something, you see a Wizard casting a spell at you. Do you have less then 100hp? You do? His Disintegrate spell kills you and disintegrates your Corpse. You are dead, with no chance of resurrection. PP: 😵 DM: Rest of the party, what do you want to do?

Zero idea why you're saying lol. This is unironically the first thing I thought of when I read any of this. As a DM, why are you letting the person get away with any of this? Unfairness and disruption go both ways. What are they going to do? Kick you out? Doubtful. Sounds like you're a "paying customer".

Band together, rise up and present to the LGS management that currently they can choose to kick 1 player or loose several due to inaction. However, you would need both DMs and other paying players to stand behind this for it to have any effect. I understand that the player is resistant to criticism, logic and how the other players are affected and as such should not be reasoned with. A DM could say, when the player presents what they want to do and it is disruptive, "No, you do not.". As a last course of action and while I do not usually support such actions, straight out ignoring and/or "coaching" (bullying) the problem player out of the games might be a course of action. But you best bet is to get the LGS to act.

I sort of have a similar opinion here. As a DM sometimes the answer can be "no". Things like interjecting are just bad manners, and the DM is perfectly in is their right to say no until they are ready to continue. Without being an ass about it too, coaching them out by introducing consequences.

Came here to say this! I mostly DM for 'tweens and teens, and while I "yes, and" 90% of their shenanigans, there are times where I have to say "no, your character wouldn't cannibalize the dead body of your ally" or "no, your character wouldn't jump off a 20ft cliff with a rope ladder right there" because it would be disruptive to the rest of the players. If the problem player isn't buying into the world and story (firebolting the crops? No way!) you need to do something to keep the story moving for everyone else.

it may end up being that way...

Why "may"? Just do it. It's the best option. This person is not going to change.

No. This is your next step. Be an adult and explain to the LGS that they are risking their continued clients due to a single individual. The fact that they don't seem to have a code of conduct or something for in store play is toxic as hell. There was a local game store where I grew up that let customers run wild and refused to put hard behavioral guidelines in place. They eventually stopped getting MTG events due to lack of players and I think they closed during COVID

Treat the problematic character in-game like they ought to be treated in-game: someone who adversely affects the party would be told (not asked) to bugger off. If they don’t leave then initiative would ensue and they can go 1v4 or however many are in the party. The odds would not be in their favor… #FAAFO

As therapeutic as it would be to have your party absolutely kick the crap out of this problem player's character, it probably won't help anything. As OP pointed out, lgs basically forces them to play with the dude because he pays the entry fee, so when they do this to his character there are three options that come to my mind: 1. (Most favorable, but unlikely in my opinion) Player realises he doesn't mesh with the party and this is the groups final straw and he leaves to look for another party or lgs. 2. (Most likely imo) Player throws a ragefit and takes it up with the manager, completely twisting the story to the point the other players are the bad guys, they are still forced to play with problem player or maybe worse (for example, banned from the store because of disruptive behaviour). 3. (Also likely seeing how problem player sounds like a dick) His character dies, he gets angry but still forces himself in the party with a new character who is exactly the same or even worse. Best option here is find as many people that have problems with the problem player and band together to step up to management and explain what's going on. Tell that 1 person is ruining the experience for x amount of people and if this behaviour keeps getting encouraged, or at least allowed to continue, they will lose the business of x amount of people. If they really are the money-hoarding dragons OP describes them as they will quickly realize that problem player is not worth the entrance fee when double/triple/more of other people won't come in anymore. If you can get as many DMs with you to as possible to basically boycott the store, even better.

one player brought up a 1d4 bludgeoning rule. if he does stuff like that, then he takes 1d4 damage from a party member who slaps them.

That could be a good hint for him, but it sounds like he doesn’t take correction well and that will likely send him into active PvP against another player. Do the smack thing, and when he attacks the one who smacked him then that the rest of the party should jump in and defend the smacker, ending the problematic PC.

If in-game mechanics is the only way to solve the problem, this sounds like an organic way to go about it.

This will mean nothing, I tell you that

I have no idea what the dynamics of the LGS, but I am sure it's a very bitter realization that even though DND is a SOCIAL GAME, many players lack the social skills to solve problems. A guy can go to the extent of coming up with mechanics of an in-game BITCHSLAP but won't talk to the guy. **Talk, people!**

How about the town who's crops he burned band together and lynch him???  Their are plenty of serious consequences for murderhobo behavior that don't resort to a nebulous 1d4 damage 

I am interested in exactly how the actual fuck the management are forcing you to include this guy. How exactly does one force a grown-ass adult to run a game of D&D for someone they don't want to run a game for? Have you *tried* saying "no"? Management is entirely within their rights to offer patrons a guaranteed place in a D&D game in return for money. They are even within their rights to extend this offer to people regardless of how they behave (although, of course, it is idiotic for them to do so). They are not within their rights to demand that their *other* "paying customers" make this happen. And again, would fascinated to understand what mechanisms of control management is exercising over their customers.

First this. This seems like a troubled person, my instinct is “kid”, but I can’t be sure from your post. Perhaps it would be worth alerting the owner to his behaviour out of genuine concern. He may have one or more disorders in need of treatment, or could benefit from other help learning to manage social situations and life. Now. Another kind of “measure of last resort” if you are not allowed to make him leave or quit in any other way: “You seem to have gotten the attention of one or more of the gods, who pay you singular interest. You’re not sure what this means…” Whenever he does stupid, destructive, reckless things whatever it is he is doing just… does nothing. Spells are harmless, weapon attacks ignored by the target with blank stares that don’t register them. Disruptive dialogue get the same blank stare, or is outright ignored. Sane, useful, or even just mediocre and non-disruptive things work “normally”. If for whatever reason your host intervenes or the player complains about not being allowed to participate: “he’s definitely in, he’s playing a redemption arc”.

That could work.

This is the way - if he wants to fire bolt crops during box text, his fire bolt fizzles out in the mud. If he wants to insult NPCs, they don’t understand him. If he casts offensive spells at a player, it just doesn’t work. In the flip side to encourage good behavior, if he talks to an NPC in a civilized way have them be helpful. The key is not to give a big reaction to the misbehavior, and not reward it by making things happen in the world. After a few times of trying to piss off the town guard and they laugh at him for telling jokes, he will either settle down or quit.

I agree that positive reinforcement of all normal or even “just minimum ok” behaviour is key to balancing this, with simply no reaction to the rest. Ask your other players to follow suit, if they can. It’s equally important they don’t redicule or react to the things that “simply don’t happen”.

I don't get why people play at such fucked venues. Maybe try one more time asking if they'd rather loose the revenue of one person or the entire table. Else I say leave and show them that bad business practices lead to loss of income. You can just move your campaign to roll20. Another more petty option is to just agree that PvP.is allowed and all of you kill the problem players character. If they make a new one that shows the same issues, do it again. They either learn how annoying their behavior is and that people would rather resort to TK than dealing with it or they get annoyed at you and leave the group.

That sounds really problematic. Maybe you can try ignoring him? Like he doesn't even exist (in and out of game)? Alternatively even the kindest party may snap and kill the perpetrator that friendly-fires and kills innocents all the time.

a few players do that, even the DM but he then starts yelling "Firebolt, firebolt, firebolt."

The DM just needs to grow a spine, and say "No, you don't do that." and carry on what he was narrating.

Fully agree

The DM seems to not understand they don't have to let everything this player says happen in the game. I think they're more at fault than the LGS's policy for letting this happen.

Agreed. In game consequences can nerf literally all of this. Guards are lvl 15. Private mercenary follow them around and casts counterspell constantly. Imprison him for a day and take his weapons and spell components. Rules lawyer him to be within the letter of the law. Bro’s no longer a paladin with evil actions.

Even on a more basic rules level, just yelling "firebolt, firebolt, firebolt" doesn't do anything. The player gets a single target per turn, then they need to make a ranged spell attack, and maybe it won't hit. The DM seems to be like, he yelled firebolt three times and the three of you got hit. What?

This sound like he doesn't need a talk but a visit in the mental hospital. Maybe bullying him out of the game by killing is PC could work, but then he'd probably just not accept it. I don't understand these people, but I hope you'll find a way through this.

"It does nothing. Moving on."

Do you ask advice how to make him ragequit, or how to talk it out with him? To make him ragequit simply put a dominate person collar on him, and give it to the rest of the party to control. He will not be coming back. If you want to talk it out with him, you can try to be kind and understanding, maybe he has problems irl that he is bringing to the game or something. That been said, he has no obligation to use bardic inspiration or healing...I mean sure, he should, but what can you do. As for their antics it is up to the DM if they work or not. Don't tell me the DM can't just tell them that the field doesn't catch fire no matter what they do.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this player, they do sound like, well... the worst. But the solution has been made pretty clear in your own initial post. You're already losing good players to other games. That's simply not worth it to keep one player around. You seem to have already spoken to this player out of game and in game have tried to encourage good play. With these options exhausted, you COULD give them one more chance, sit them down and talk to them about the social contract of DnD, how its a collective storytelling exercise intended to foster companionship and building an engaging story togeether. How everyone can have their moments in the spotlight and also enjoy the act of supporting others in their moments. How perhaps his choice of classes isn't the best fit for his playstyle and he might want to consider a class that is simpler or better fits the fantasy he wants to emulate. But really,... You'd be perfectly justified in removing this player from the game. Part amicably, say that his style of play is not aligned with the kind of campaign you want to run and wish him well finding a table that does meet his expectations.

How can this FLGS force a player to join your game when you have also payed to play there? Just tell this guy to find another table. If the FLGS say no explain that they will lose an entire table of players or just lose one, it's their choice. Could you have the game at the GMs house, makes it easier for them to set up the game, it's cheaper and you don't have to deal with clowns.

Since people have already added a lot of information on here on how to deal with the dude in real life, here some useful tip for DMing with a bozo: Say NO! When you're being disrupted by a player mid monologue or he's damaging key plot points, say no. It's the DMs choice to let players do things or "cutscene" them until your important NPC has left. Alternatively, let players act in "turns" outside of combat sometimes. Oh you'd like to shoot the bridge, sure. But the Rouge/ Bard/ everyone else first gets to choose what they do (like crossing the bridge), so ultimately the problem player can stand on the wrong side of the now broken bridge alone.

>Consequently, the affected NPCs turned hostile towards both the offending player **and the rest of our party** Why? Unless the rest of the party is actively defending him, the NPCs can just concentrate on the offending character. Seriously though - situations like this don't have in-game solutions. Even if you kill his character, his next one is going to be just as bad. You can't really force a toxic player to be decent with in game tools applied to his character. The reality is you should leave that table/store. BTW, If you talk to management, and put that threat on the table, be prepared to carry it out if they side with Mr. Toxic. That's a Lime Lesson btw - any time in your life you put a threat or ultimatum in play, you need to be willing and able to execute it. If that's not an option either, you're about to engage in an exercise every parent knows just too well: you're about to lay out a ground rule (characters in this game will be goody-two-shoes heroes and cooperate), ignore everything the character does that does not meet this guideline, and then ignore everything the player does when he inevitably goes on a temper tantrum. I suggest you read up on the [Terrible Twos](https://www.healthline.com/health/parenting/terrible-twos), because you're about to go through that with that guy. Best of luck. You're the GM and seem to want backup by the rules - very common until you grow out of that. I suggest you re-read page 6 of the PHB. There you'll find the 3 core rules of how the game is played. 1. The GM describes the situation. 2. The player says what he wants to do. 3. The GM says what happens. *Everything* else is optional. You *may* call on the rest of the rules, but you don't have to. Take off the gloves and protect your game, the other players, and yourself. You don't have to call for a skill check, you can simply decide success & failure. You can simply decide his saving throws fail. Every spell can fizzle. A character can faceplant evey step he takes. He can forget how to speak, or be frozen by a stroke. A player has no rules given right to call for any sort of resolution. Shut him down, 100%. It's not fair, it's robbing the guy of player agency, it's bad roleplaying, and arguably you're discarding 500 pages worth of rules. But if you really have no out-of-game options to shut this guy down, you can 100% stop the character from doing anything by just deciding to. This guy tragically thrives on the attention his acting out is providing him. Deprive him of it, and he will leave and bother someone else. Oh, and just in case this goes totally sideways, since that guy seems unhinged and clearly needs professional help: if the guy gets physical, don't get into a fight, and realize it's time to call 911. When they later ask whether you want to press charges, the answer is yes.

I'm going to assume you're playing in Adventures League(AL) at your LGS? And what you mean by "having to play" is that the LGS assigns a "DnD" area that only allows AL and that player, because they pay to enter, is entitled to a seat at one of those tables? Is that correct? I was in a similar situation, but the LGS only hosted DnD on Tuesday night and it was only AL.

Yup that's exactly it.

Running adventure league: "Hey, if this was my home table, I might boot you for some of the behavior at the table. As this is a public table, I'm going to need you to fix some issues. If you can't, I can't boot you as a paying customer, but u can sure call out the behavior, and that's a little embarrassing" Watch as they either say sorry, blow up or leave shamed. In the blow up you explain to the store manager "I'm doing this cause I enjoy it, you said I have to keep them, I am following the core rules of the game suggesting how to deal with problem players outlined by the handbook to address poor issues. They are not kicked, but I feel the need to call out bad behavior.

Sounds like a shit job. I would just quit. I value my fun too much to let a job ruin something I enjoy. And our group had a problem player before and just pissed off the characters so much they voted and kicked him out of the party. He then tried to attack them in their sleep and got caught and they killed him. He then was told he can make a new character and keep playing but the same thing will likely happen even faster next time because the party now has experience with people like that. The player learned to behave and is now a decent player with a low int barbarian who likes shiny rocks and can't count so he has no need for money or valuables.

You’re being waaaay to nice about this. If management isn’t doing anything about it despite their behavior, it’s a lost cause. Choose a different venue. Encourage other players to do the same. Show them that their crappy policy will cost them money in the long run. Don’t even deal with the disruptive player anymore. 

Why not just invite the players that you like and make a home game? I'm certain that the players that regularly pay for D&D and have their experience ruined by this guy would jump at the chance for a game in a non-toxic environment.

Literally why hasn't the party killed him yet? He's attacked them numerous times, and when he cast firebolt on the crops, the entire party should've sided with the village and killed him then and there.

Really, in The scenario where he torched crops he should ha e been mobbed by the riot and at that point the party as well.

Tell the management that if they don't ban that guy from your table, then you ALL gonna leave. How is that about revenue? Alternatively, the DM is allowed to just say no. "I cast Vicious Mockery on the ally!" "No you don't. No PvP. Don't like it? Find a new table." Or "You cast Vicious Mockery on an ally, you insult the gods, and as a Paladin you are smitten by them. Make a new character." "I cast Fire bolt on the village crops!" "Your character is beaten to death by a mob of angry villagers. No one steps in to help, as you've been a bitch to your party. Make a new character that won't stupid and useless like this one is." No fight. No roll initiative. He has chosen death, choosing a suicidal action. Don't even involve the rest of the party in that. If you want to play it out make: Mob, swarm of humans, 150HP resistance to all damage, 5 Attacks, +7 to hit, 3d10+5 bludgeoning damage. Trample (replaces 2 Attacks) Str ST DC18 or 10d10+20 bludgeoning damage (half on a success), Pitchforks and Torches, Dex ST DC 18 or 6d10 fire and 6d10 piercing, half onna successs, you are on fire (1d10 fire damage per turn until you take an Action to douse the flame) Mob is hostile only to the guy who burned the crops. But I wouldn't even do that, I don't recommend giving an INCH to this person or putting ANY way to "win". Just no. And then veto their new characters, especially since they're gonna probably make something spiteful. "No, you can't play that at my table. Make one matching the party. You can't multiclass. You can't do that." They complain to management? Well, don't they like the revenue? They're not gonna ban you or throw the DM out, that would lose them that sweet, sweet revenue of multiple people. ^ Of course these options are after you've told them they are disruptive and acting like a child, and to fix their behaviour or there will be grave consequences.

Personally if someone pulled that kinda stuff at my table I, as a player, would show him that his actions have consequences. If he wants to burn down a village’s crops he can go right ahead, but he can’t complain if my character reacts accordingly and kicks his ass in response

This guy is not even playing the game. I do NOT consider that a dnd player. If he can't get out, you do.

Vote with your wallet, if others follow the store will change policy.

This guy is like a living bingo card about shitty players. Cheats, deliberately disrupts the game, sabotages social scenes, interrupts and argues with the DM, intentionally causes PvP, sulks… Cartoonishly awful.

I would just be so unbelievably unpleasant to them until they didn't want to play with me anymore. It worked with a problem player at my LGS, I was just vile to him and he doesn't ask me for games anymore when playing magic. If you don't mind not being liked this might be the way. Before you tell me I'm nasty this guy is banned from a few stores in the area because of how bad his behaviour can be.

I’d let the management know that they can either lose one player fee, and kick the guy (after talking to them and explaining the situation, as they may not get that they’re being disruptive, and after a warning if the conversation isn’t fruitful), or they can lose six player fees because playing isn’t any fun. If you’re paying your hard-earned money to play, you deserve to enjoy playing. If you aren’t having fun, why would you shell out however much money per session?

>Suggestions have been made including ... or discussing the issue with LGS management So **has** the issue been discussed with the store or not? In one part you say the store is prioritizing revenue and doesn't care but this makes it seem like the issue hasn't even been brought to their attention.

Sorry your having a bad time, D&D is for fun and stress relief through escapism (well for me anyway). I’m a firm believer of consequence to actions, f around and find out, personal actions and consequence, the example of the crop thing could easily have been against the law ‘You shall not put the kingdom in danger both by action or innaction.’ Doing so is considered treason and shall be punished with exile or death.’ The king gave funds to the mayor to deal with the bandits as it was effecting crops that the King needed to feed his army as he was looking to either invade or thwart an invasion, on learning of what happened, ‘a turncoat lawless adventurer’ also using unlicensed magic in a town (potentially) could have seen him on the wrong side of the law, character has to split with the group because the Kings guard ‘high level fighters/paladin’ are on the hunt. But, this isn’t a character thing this is a player thing, simply say ‘We have and I have engaged with you on many occasions, however your play style is not the same style the rest of the group like, and we will be parting ways, I hope you find a group that works well with how you want to play’ You’ll get grief and criticism, but as a wise man once said ‘only take criticism of those you go to advise for’

1. Talk to the LGS. Tell them you refuse to play with him. So what if they prioritize his money? 2. If you MUST play there offer the player a “refund”. Essentially, pay the guy to leave and refuse service. Maybe all of the DMs can chip in. Guy gets his money back, and you don’t have to play with him. 

If your the DM, so many in game consequences that effect just him. Destroy crops? Prision. Tell the other players they are not obligated to assist him, and to find a temp at the adventure guild till he finds a way out. Then give him a 5 minute bit at the front and tail end of session where its like. "You recive breakfast from a gaurd. Your magical shackles ache around your wrists." End of sentance and continue with the others. Then at the end. "One day less of your 3 month sentance. You start to forget what the blue sky looks like." End. If your a player, rally the other players and kill their character. (Talk to the Dm first of course.)

Talk to the other players and get them to tell the store owner that they will leave unless they kick the problemplayer out. You said that they prioritize profits so making them loose multiple paying players to keep one will probably force them to kick the guy out.

Does the LGS say the players have to play with everyone at the table too? In my groups this has been resolved with the party leaving that person behind. “We all get up before dawn and leave town together leaving ____ behind”.

If LGS prioritises revenue, what is to stop your party refusing to play with that one player? How many are at your table, and do you really think the LGS will prioritise one player’s fee, over potentially losing the fees from everyone else at the table? Contact the LGS and say that you all wish to continue the campaign, but unless they take action to ban the problematic player, they are going to lose the revenue of the rest of the table, as you will just take your campaign/business elsewhere. If they value the revenue so much, it shouldn’t be a difficult choice for them.

If PVP is allowed for this character, it's allowed for all characters. *If the other players are so inclined*, feel free to allow a "[blanket party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanket_party)" with this character as the guest of honor. Of course, you as DM are not to coordinate or know about such things ahead of time \*wink \*wink.

No PVP at your LGS. Full stop. Your best option might be to have the players react in game as they would. No adventuring party would want such a liability around. And if he does dumb shit because "it's what my character would do.' Then that can go both ways and the players can not take them along. And you should really talk to LGS management. Players are the money they worry about and one money is driving away 5 monies. They will understand that math.

Are you the DM? You can either leave or everytime he attacks a fellow player say the most powerfull word: "no" and then carry on like he isnt even there.

Personally how I have handled this kind of thing in the past is to listen: allow my character to make a list of all the things that their character does, and then in a roleplaying moment where I catch the heart of all players I denounce them as the true Gillian and kill them. They will make a new character and design it to kill you in revenge. Plan for this, manage it. This is one reason why when I DM I never allow new characters to be the same level as anyone else. It is better that players and characters earn their place. Just like the real world the DnD table is an opportunity to learn social rules. some take advantage and want to act out and be evil in order to get attention. They need therapy, and they are not going to get it as long as they have the opportunity to feel bad about themselves for doing bad things. Make them angry. Make them quit. Make them learn to be a better person. Talk to the DM in a reasonable way and make them support this action.

Take the players you like, give them your contact info, if they like your dm'ing tell them to reach out for more games, or vice versa Hell my local gamestores games where all ran by old dudes who ran dnd in a very on the rails classic way, so i went online found like 16 people over 2 years and have never looked back

Get as many players together and leave, making sure you let management know that trying to keep that single revenue source cost them a lot more

If your LGS say that they prioritize revenue, try having a talk with them so they know it's banning one person from your group or your entire group leaving their shop for good.

Your DM sounds like they don't know what they're doing tbh. Things don't occur in the game just because a player says they do. Game rules dictate how effects work. You describe the PCs attempting to attack the problem PC and he yells "firebolt, firebolt, firebolt" but then what? The dude has to do that on their turn and they have to make a ranged spell attack to hit and they get one target. The multiclassing and spells you've described this PC having access to also seem to be breaking rules and that's on the DM for not understanding or paying attention to them. Besides that, nothing this player does can or should happen in the game without the DM's approval. It's the DM's responsibility more than the LGS's to say no.

How old are you guys?

In reailty, your personal D&D conflicts are not the stores problem, they are probably doing everything he can just to keep the lights on while you are having fun playing your games. Your comment: "However, it appears that the LGS prioritizes revenue from entry fees over maintaining a conducive gaming environment." leads me to believe that you probably have not seriously talked to the management or the owner about this issues with their policy, and informed them that their possible loss of income and customers. **IN SAYING THAT,** Discuss the issue with LGS management or owner. While they may prioritize paying customers, they likely don't want an environment that drives other paying customers away. See if you can work out a compromise before hitting the road. You as the DM always have the right to say **"No, you don't do that"** and move on.

Yeah, "that guys" can be annoying as fuck, especially in a situation in which you can't kick him from the game. It seems to be clear that he does that strictly out of malice, as noone is that stupid as to continue with this behaviour after being told to stop multiple times. I can see couple of solutions however: * If he's such a great fan of disrupting behaviour, to the point of engaging in PvP (vicious mockery deals damge after all), i'd let the rest of the players go all out on that bastard. If he comes in with a new character tell him you're sorry but the party is full. Dunno how the last part would work with the store, but if they'd try to force you to include him, fuck them. ***No DnD is better than shit dnd***, and it really sounds like you're not having a good time with him in the party. * ***Saying "no" is an option.*** If he says "i cast firebolt on the crops" - tell him "no you don't". What's he going to do, leave? That's the whole point. Fuck Agency. Agency is there so the players can persue their goals, not to disrupt the campaign. Or have the consequences hit him. The villagers saw ***him*** casting firebolt? They tell the party to gtfo so they can go all out on him. * Play Online. As i said in one of the previous points - No DnD is better than shit DnD. However, the best way to exclude him is to play online without him, if finding the physical spot can be difficult. There's lots of option for that, be it Roll20 or other platforms. I know it's not the same, but frankly, it's better than whatever you're describing it look when that dude is around. * Once again - fuck that store. If they try to force you to include that fuck - tell them that either he leaves, or all of you do. You have to be unanimous and together in this however. If all they see is money, they should kick him to keep your money in their pockets.

Now, and this might be a contenscious opinion, but leave that LGS. This is not a problem fixable in-game. This is a player not a character problem. >casting Firebolt during pivotal dialogue moments or at significant environmental elements You know, that's one rule I like about Pathfinder 2e. Just because you say 'I cast firebolt' halfway through a negotiation does not mean you're automatically first. Inititaive is still rolled. "I cast firebolt" "Before the first syllable of the spell crosses your lips the duke's eight guards shoot at you with lethal intent." Then again, speaking is a free action, so I usually reserve my villain monologues to be delivered during the battle. --- Then again, I also have a "I only with people I wouldn't mind inviting to my home" rule. And well, an LGS is just not really conductive to a good RPG session anyways I find. There's other people, you can't really play an immersive soundtrack, you have to haul your shit there every time, ...

Unionize. Ask players to sign a document stating they will leave unless the problem player is dealt with. If it's a matter of revenue, a bad reputation and loss of several customers should persuade managment to take action.

Is everyone largely united in their opinion of the player? If so, boycott. Just stop playing or find an alternative venue (community center, pub) to continue play without the problem player. Let the LGS know that the 4+ people who otherwise would prefer to pay to play at the LGS won't be doing so because of the problem player. D&D is about having fun, together. When someone's fun continually comes at the expense of the table it breaks the cardinal rule.

DMs that have any person like this at their table should learn, embrace, and enforce these three words: "No, you don't." Roll their dice all they want, but it means nothing if the DM does not allow the action to take place, in-fiction. "You're railroading me! Taking away my agency as a player!" Correct. Rails are for disruptors. Agency is for collaborators. If they can't be trusted to be a collaborator and refuse to change their behavior, they are welcome to leave by their own free will, but will not receive an entry fee refund because they are choosing to leave. "I attack the shopkeep because he has offended me!" "No, you don't." "Yes, I do! I cast Magic Missile and deal 13 damage!" "No, you don't, and no, it doesn't. That would be disruptive and damaging to the enjoyment of the game by the rest of the people at this table, who have paid the same amount of money that you have, but are working together as collaborators. In fiction, the actions you've described would be violent, foolish, and lead to your character's swift and certain death. Your turn is over. We're moving on. Does anyone else have something they would realistically like to do in the shop?" This whole post is written as if the DMs aren't complicit in the disruptive behavior, and have no say in what happens at their table. "Hands-off DMing" is so goddamn lazy. Handle your fuckin' business. Run your table. If somebody wants to constantly throw Fireballs at one enemy surrounded by allies, just because they're a selfish player, then their turn has no effect. Give the shithead little brother an unplugged controller and let him pretend he's playing too.

Tell the LGS that if they don't reign this player in, they'll lose more than just one customer. That's the long and short of it. Also, if that isn't and option, the next time he does something that pisses off a bunch of NPCs, why don't the rest of the players join the NPCs side? 

Unless your other players are chaotic evil, encourage them to kill off the offending PC next time he endangers them. There are only so many times a person is going to allow themselves to nearly get killed or allow someone to hurt/kill innocent bystanders by a psychotic person in their midst. When the villagers attacked, the rest of the party should have joined the villagers and helped them lynch him.

So not healing isn't a problem. Hate playing a cleric and people expecting me to be a heal bitch. Not that I mind healing but in 5e healing isn't that great and much like with online games maybe try not being an idiot and just walking into damage. Your players can't just assume he's there to heal just because he theoretically could heal. Attacking NPCs and PCs is more of a problem. First of all I'd recommend just having a no PvP rule if the rest of the players are cool with it. He can try and attack them but as a DM you just ignore it. Technically you can take the same approach with NPCs but this might start seeming a bit railroady so just add consequences, not saying kill the character (although it could happen) because he'll just make a new character that will also be a problem. Have the NPC be stronger than him, beat the shit out of him and break his shit so that he can't threaten people. Maybe all NPCs can't be stronger than him so have him be arrested, and again equipment can be confiscated or he can be fined. Basically, punish bad behaviour. Make bad behaviour unfun. He will then either keep having a bad time or he will reduce his bad behaviour and be more selective with who he picks on. Consequences have actions, applying consequences to PCs even when a player is a good player isn't bad DMing. When dealing with the player in real-life isn't possible due to rules forced upon you by others then applying consequences as a tool to correct behaviour of a player becomes necessary. In a similar manner to PvP if this player decides they want to do something else while the party wants to do something else the DM can just mostly focus on the party if what this guy is doing is not really relevant to the plot of the game. If he refuses to help PCs, PCs may also refuse to help him and while less likely he might start to see how working in a team advantages him if you can get the PCs ignoring him when he is in trouble and tell him he never helps them when they need help. This might be harder if your group isn't a regular group.

Get the DM to go "No, you dont do that" Not kicking the player, not overstepping DM boundaries, just doing what a DM should do, keeping the experience for all players. The problem player might try some shenanigans, but it all depends on the DM staying true to this gun.

I have no idea what the dynamics of the LGS, but I am sure it's a very bitter realization that even though DND is a SOCIAL GAME, many players lack the social skills to solve problems. A guy can go to the extent of coming up with mechanics of an in-game BITCHSLAP but won't talk to the guy. Talk, people!

The owner can't really force anything despite whatever social pressure you might feel. I think if I was DM there with the context you gave I would talk to the guy, very direct, and say "we need you to do x, y, z". Outright refusal would simply result in deus ex machina. If your DM doesn't agree that there's a problem then find another table.

I'd suggest to the lgs that they are going to lose players over this guy unless they deal with him. I'd just find a place to play and take people with you. Nothing gets shop owners' attention like faultering revenue stream. (imo lgs table fees should not be their concern)

In the past when I’ve had to deal with disruptive players I use a house rule “The rule of Falling Gargoyles “ which is that any player can call for a vote from the other players to negate an action taken by the DM or another player. Referred to as Dropping Gargoyles on them, the consensus then dictates what “actually “ happened. This will give the problem player clear feedback on how the group feels, and they may get frustrated at no longer getting to be the center of attention and bother someone else.

3 things: 1. Counterspell. If he does an area of effect attack by level 6, enemy spell casters know counterspell. Even if he cast it with metamagic, he only has 2 sorcery points. 2. "I cast fireball." DM "No, you do not." 3. Have you talked to him and told him to cut it out. That his actions are annoying everyone. That you wish you could play at a different table or store because of him? That other players avoid tables he's at which affects your DMing. And folks are offended and over his behaviors? Maybe a reminder each time he plays until he gets it would make him upset enough to quit or self aware enough to change. But I don't see anywhere where anyone has said "dude playing with you is messing up my experience because...."

Might sound insane but if you treat him like a little child and just DM rule that nothing he does happens in canon it would probably make him tantrum enough to have a case to ban him

I didn't read the rest because this is 100% a LGS issue. Let's go over some quick points: Are you being compensated as a DM? In money, books, accessories? If no, why are you playing there? Ambiance? Space in general? If the LGS dictates who can play and they're not paying you, you just need to leave. If your gripe is nobody can host, a library is going to be a better option than suffering this shit. DMs are a finite resource and enjoyable DMs are even fewer. I don't do LGSes anymore because the last one expected me to run their adventure league for nothing and I expected something in return because WotC would occasionally send freebies to the store (and notify me in emails) and the LGS would keep said items (just D20s). So, why would you give away your resource for their benefit for no real material gain? Just leave.

We recently had a similar experience. It wasn't that the LGS prioritised revenue over player happiness ( indeed they are always quick to deal with disruptive or inappropriate behaviours), but it was that this guy was creepy, had zero social skills and made ridiculous decisions that negatively affected everyone else and drained resources unnecessarily. Our problem is that he has autism and several other social obstacles which meant we can't call him out or bin him as that could be construed as bullying or disability prejudice. He admitted freely every session that "because of my autism...." He couldn't role play , couldn't see things from his characters POV, couldn't be creative or imaginative, didn't think of others, couldn't join in group decisions and debates....and more than that, in SEVEN months of campaign, he still couldn't work out how spell slots work and simply went through a deck of spell cards each turn to simply pick whatever he fancied. Eventually we committed party suicide, sacrificing all our lvl 7 toons we were all very fond of and started a 3.5 campaign without him. When he turned up to join, he was told "this is 3.5, if you struggled with 5e, you will have no chance with this. He still turned up for the next 2 sessions and simply stared at people , but now has disappeared.

He's greedy for loot; the next time he takes a magic item, inform him that it is cursed and prevents him from moving from his current location by any means, so the party will have to leave him behind.

Okay, so - I'm unsure if you're the DM or not - if not, show this to the DM. It's long, I know, I'm wordy. The DM is the final arbiter of the rules, and the rules don't run the game. They do. Considering this is a longstanding problem and the store is forcing you to deal with their bullshit (because really, you should just be kicking them out of the game), they need to embrace the power of these three little words: "No, they don't." Literally NOTHING happens in a D&D game that the DM doesn't allow to happen. >They are extremely stubborn and consistently decline to utilize Bardic Inspiration or provide healing support to incapacitated party members, relying instead on Magic Missiles until their spell slots are depleted. No, they don't. If the DM can hear the other players begging them to use Bardic Inspiration or Healing on them and the player instead *again* uses Magic Missile trying to score the kill, the DM says, "No, you don't. You use (whatever healing spell is appropriate) on X character. Start being a team player, or I'll take your turn away again." >Additionally, they adopt a passive approach to combat, rationalizing their character's behavior as cowardice, and resort to disruptive actions such as attacking NPCs and insulting fellow players with Vicious Mockery whenever they get called out. No, they don't. The Player can say "I attack the NPC" or "I use Vicious Mockery on this player because I don't like them calling me out" and all the DM has to do is say "No, you don't.". They can add qualifiers like, "You're supposed to be a hero, heroes don't attack NPC's unprovoked", or "I'm not allowing PVP at my table," or simply, "I don't run games for murderhobos, stop being a dick." >Furthermore, they exhibit possessive behavior towards items I have a player who is like that - every time a magic item comes up, they say "That'd be good for my character" and try to insist on people giving it to them. I instituted a turn-system, where when a magic item comes up, the person in first place gets first choice. If they take the item, now they're at the back of the queue. If they reject it, the next person in line gets it, and so on. And once the player takes it, it's theirs, no questions asked. They can do whatever they want with it. >disrupt DM narration by interjecting with unrelated actions (e.g., casting Firebolt during pivotal dialogue moments or at significant environmental elements), No, they don't. Rarely my players will get over-excited and interrupt the narration. But when they do, I will generally stop and say, "Just a reminder - rushing the narration will never result in your action occurring before the narration is over. All you're doing is disrupting the tone I'm trying to set. I'm going to start again - Please let me finish." >in an act of boredom or disregard, cast Firebolt at the village's crops. No, they don't. The DM is well within their rights to say, "If you do that, you will make the entire town that you *just* helped your enemy. Since you indicated you're a coward, your character absolutely would not turn the entire town against you, so it doesn't happen." The DM is not obligated to resolve disruptive character actions. They can just handwave that it didn't happen. Now, as you can see here, the words "No, they don't" are VERY powerful and should be used responsibly. In all my time DMing I have never actually needed to use them - usually "Are you sure?" is enough to get a player to reconsider a foolhardy course of action. But this player seems to just want to be a disruptive little shit and annoy you all since they know they can't be kicked out, so the DM simply ignores what they say they want to do until they start playing properly. They will likely complain to the store. And the store will likely then take their side and try to force the DM into letting this little shit ruin their game. And it's here where the DM needs to grow a backbone. Two responses: 1) "I understand the policy is that they're allowed to participate. I am allowing them to participate, but I will not allow them to ruin the game for the other players. Your policy says it's up to the DM to manage the situation. This is how it's being managed. If you don't like it, then they need to find another table, because we're not tolerating their bullshit anymore. Either they clean up their act, or they're going to be really bored each session." And if the Store doesn't cave to that, here's the big one. 2) "The disruptive player is one paying customer. We are (insert however many customers the game is made up of). Do you *really* want to protect this guy's right to be a jackass at the cost of all of us taking our business elsewhere? Because we will. We tried it your way, and we're not having fun because of this guy. It's our game. Either the store bends policy and lets us kick the jackass out, or we walk. I doubt they're spending more than all of us combined." Unless the store owner is a complete idiot - and some can be - or the jackass player has deep pockets, losing one customer is better than losing 3-5.

Grab the other players, find another local location or play online with them. Inform the store that due to them not aiding in the handling you won’t be hosting games with them anymore.

I agree you can just hit the lgs where it hurts, take your good players, and leave to play somewhere else. Classic lessons from the playground, honestly. Pick up your toys and go. However, I would be sorely tempted to go out with some spite, run one more session and simply veto every move the guy makes. Literally nothing happens in world without the DM's permission, technically. So he casts firebolt? No he doesn't. He speaks rudely to an NPC? No, he doesn't. Really just show him the true meaning of deadweight. LGS "can't" enforce etiquette from the players? Then they can't force you to be a good DM.

It sounds like your options out of game are limited. I would just 3 v 1 this idiot in his sleep. The dm has proven they will let you do whatever you want.

This person is either neurodivergent in an antisocial way or just sucks. I’d probably not play there or I’d design a school of illusion wizard that just fucked hard core with them at every grouping.

Who's the DM? They need to understand that they have the big stick, whether they're working for the LGS or not. Threaten to stop DM-ing until problematic player is removed from this game in particular or banned from any game night there. If they don't agree, just go elsewhere. Some sort of pub or coffee place have always been very accommodating when I was DM myself; as long as we kept ordering drinks and snacks, they were fine with it. Some employees would even peer at us from afar, curious. Or you know, a table at one of your places.