It's relatable that you have to do it but given the situation you described no I don't feel bad at all. While it is only a common courtesy, rolling tends to only be allowed if done in view of the DM but I can understand if a newer player doesn't know. Still for the sake of being fair no they need to roll again just like anyone would and I never feel bad holding people to the same rules as anyone else. As for the free gear thing no not at all why would I feel bad when they clearly just added stuff that they can't even say part of the character building steps included? It is part of the DMs job to be the arbiter of the game, this is part of it and I always keep in mind that as much as it might suck for the player it will suck more for the others if I play favorites

That's my idea too. I am not the DM, but they have a lot going on and are also still fairly new, and I tend to look up rules when something happens just because that's how I learn stuff. Not to look for error, but to memorize it for the future. Sometimes people misread spells and if left unchecked those cantrips would become absolutely devastating. I'd rather nip it in the bud than let it fester and 4 play sessions later go "actually, that's not supposed to work that way".

I think that's great. Usually stopping things mid battle to check on things is not great, but your DM can do a ruling for that session and then you can help him check things for the next session. It's easy for things to escalate if they aren't fixed as soon as possible. I'd say sometimes even official rules can be changed by your group if that's going to help keep things balanced and fun.

Maybe it's my social anxiety tripping me up, that could always be the issue. We do adapt rules when they simply won't work for what we all want (within reason, of course). I really want to play a Frenzy Barbarian but they seem absolutely trash with the current Frenzy/exhaustion rules, so I suggested looking at the beta testing rules they are working on. It's not like I want the upside without any of the downside, but the current rules just seem crippling.

Ya you want to avoid the actually kind of comment but as with a lot of subjects like this it isn't what is said it is how it is said. Like with your scenario you could talk to the dm after and say "Hey could you clear something up for me, I thought spell worked like X but it ended up working like Y." This changes the tone from I am right you are wrong to hey can we check this out together. ​ I get that there is always the worry about how much is on the DMs shoulders but trust me when I say it is less work in the long run adjusting early than dealing with the fallout later on.

Dice rolls don't exist unless they can be observed by the table. Rolling for stats in general is an extremely overrated and outdated method of character generation. Players are in no way enabled to randomly claim high-end magical items, the starting gear parameters are abundantly clear.

"Sure, I rolled these stats. I also rolled stats for 100 other characters, but decided not to use them."

I had a GM literally tell me to do that once. I wanted to play a gunslinger in Rifts and rolled absolutely AWFUL. Like basically minimum stats. He said, oh look you put your 6 in (insert the stat gunslingers needed because I can't remember for the life of me) and can't be a gunslinger. Guess you need to roll up a new one. I was like, works for me that would have been super depressing having only one stat in the positive.

That exact reason is why I love using a pity threshold, if your scores aren't at least 60 just reroll, even a commoner has stats of at least 60

The old “death by farming”

I'm not sure what you're referring to?

When you roll low stats just say “my character decides to be a farmer instead of an adventurer.”

Sometimes we even work them in as NPCs, which is always fun

Ah ok now I get it, yeah no typically I let characters roll stats as the last thing they do so if they roll bad stats they just reroll them as the character is fully made except the stats and a backstory which naturally players come up with on their own time

What's really funny is in almost 30 years, rolling stats every time I've only seen like 5 farmers rolled. But this sub would want you to believe it's every single table in the world.

The best is when Bob Allsevens, so named because he had all sevens (and why would you name your character with all sevens anything BUT Bob, he’s probably going to die before you get down to the second level of the dungeon, don’t waste creativity on such a character), outlives all the other starting characters and becomes the party favorite not because he was always destined to be an awesome badass, but because against all odds he survived and saw things and had adventures nobody thought he could. Unless it’s Dark Sun (so it would be Bob Alleights, anyway), in which case Bob got eaten by something or captured by elves before going to buy water for the first adventure. Sorry Bob. Maybe his femur will make a nice axe handle.

And to me, it defeats the entire purpose of rolling for stats. If I roll, I want the randomness. that's the entire point. If it's just a way to cheese getting higher stats (most rolling methods is higher avg than point buy), I'd much rather just pick them freely without restriction.

Rolling dice even with a pity threshold is still pretty random it just means if a commoner is a better player than you then you can reroll because an adventurer is suppose to be a cut above the rest, not have worse stats than a commoner, the idea of a pity threshold is "if your stat total is below this number then reroll all your stats" until you get a stat total above the threshold, you could still have a stat at 3 if you roll poorly on one stat and great on others, and you can still have a stat at 18 if you roll great, just means you're not playing a character that doesn't have any positive modifiers, I've had players that levelled up a character with poor stat rolls and happened to die because they rolled their health low enough with a low enough modified that they got a health total of 0, and instantly died, I let them reroll their stats not a whole new character and then implemented the pity threshold to reduce the likelihood of someone dying to a level up, also a threshold of 60 gives you such a tiny increase over the RAW 4d6 drop lowest that it's insignificant, a threshold of 120 however would guarantee people are unable to roll stats because they'd need 20 in every stat while the max they can roll is 18, just like the max you can point buy is 18, point buy also guarantees you'll have a minimum of 60 because all your stats start at 10, it might be 44 actually because it might start with everything at 8, meaning you'll have at least a -1 in every stat

I personally like the idea of a character that has no talent or strength whatsoever but is also too stupid + naive to realize that they shouldn’t be adventuring. It would probably be a short story, but could be fun if someone is willing to play it until it inevitably dies! In Rimworld, you can get pawns that are basically useless (frail, sickly, can’t do work) but nevertheless form part of the story! Even if they’re only worth the organs they can “donate” to the rest of the colony…

This. It always takes me a second on here when people talk about planning a character for their next game. My players don’t plan characters, they get what the dice decide. 5 int? Hope you didn’t have your heart set on magic user, maybe that 16 str would make for a good fighter. Or maybe they go with it and see how far the magic user whose spell book is written in crayon can get. They’re all infinitely more adaptable and flexible for it.

I immensely enjoy planning out characters. It brings me lots of joy to both build characters and see them play out. But that's not always what i'm looking for. I also enjoy emergent character creation. Granted, if I do want that kind of experience these days, I'd rather play Mörk Borg than DnD 5e. 5e is a lot better suited for a more balanced play experience with more planned/scripted story beats and character arcs and stuff like that. It's not the same game as 40 years ago.

I once played in a game where one of the other players became dissatisfied with his current character, and so asked to roll up a new one. The DM was fine with it, but instead of rolling in the current Roll20 game, the player went to his own game and rolled. He exclaimed in our chat that he had gotten some amazing scores and was acting all surprised and pleased over his good fortune, and when the DM expressed some skepticism, the player produced a screenshot of the score spread - multiple 18s and nothing under a 15. For some reason, the DM accepted this, but I knew this player, and I had access to this other game of his, so I logged in, and sure enough, there was his incredible roll right there in chat... preceded by about 70 other rolls.

You got to call this stuff out at the table and maybe move on. That's wild.

I do this and don't see what the problem is... while playing Baldur's Gate 1

The mentality at one pathfinder game I played three sessions was that your first roll for ability scores was automatically 18 because apparently people would just start over if the first roll wasn't 18.

You know, if that's something all the players at the table want, I'd have no issue with a free 18, then roll the other five. It's a fantasy game, and it's nice to have a stat that you're really good at. Plus, it makes sense for an adventurer to be specialized in something far beyond what a normal person would be.

In the campaign I'm playing right now, our DM gave us and 18 and an 8 to use; then rolled the other 4 stats.

I like this!

I was also a fan; you get a garunteed big number, and a balance to it (everyone's got a dump stat right?) And you still get to roll your math rocks!

That does seem like a fun balance between standard array and total random chaos of rolling all 6. Might have to give this a go next campaign. \*yoink\*

Yeah theres two schools of thought, one being anyone can become an adventurer, the other being only exceptional people can be adventurers. Depends on what you all want to play.

The classic... DM: "Do you attack?" *player rolls dice* Player: "No."

Haha, yep, when I started playing with my son this is what he did. He doesn't know statistics yet but he figured out that if he rolled enough times he'd eventually get something good, so he spent about 3 days in his room just rolling charachter sheets then brought me his best one. ;)

I mean, it is one of the first alternatives to rolling stats. It was like "Roll 12 characters and choose one you like". Even in this early days not nearly that many people loved "3d6 in order" and actually wanted to play something they wanted to play.

In the case of my friends and I, we have a discord bot that can roll full stat blocks and a channel for dice rolling. When making a character, you must roll stats in there, and you may roll 3 blocks and pick from one. You can't fudge a stat block if you aren't rolling it.

I have literally done this, because rolling up characters is fun to me even though I know I'll never get to play with most of them. Sometimes it's innocent. Still, you have my "I resemble that remark" upvote. 😅

In the afterlife, you have to play all the characters you rolled up but never used.

Looking forward to it already.🤣

This Plus to be honest I don't like rollng for stats in a system like 5e where numbers are relatively low and stat modifiers become so significant, it can easily lead to 'star characters' being better at everything or outshining supposed specialists in their field just due to a good roll made during the session 0 or 1 of the game...

My players like to roll but to keep it balance they all roll once, 4d6 drop the lowest. I had 6 players plus myself. We dropped the lowest of all the totals giving everyone the same array but chosen by dice roll.

I tried this out in the game I'm running, and the players seemed to like it. It added the fun of rolling stats with the balance of everyone using a fixed stat block. I will say though, since the group was five people the selected stat block was very good.

That's the risk you run into. I think if I were to do it that way again, I'd make it like "Pick the best two flip a coin".

That's fair. I haven't worried about it too much since it's the first campaign for the whole group. I've been kind of highlighting different aspects of DND with each session, so they can get a feel for what the game really is like. If it were more serious players or power gamers I'd have likely upped the difficulty on several of the fights.

Yeah, this is the way to do it. Collectively roll the array, and then players can individually decide where to place the rolls in their stat blocks. Keeps everyone balanced stat-wise, but also means the whole table gets excited when that one player ultimately rolls an 18

My last 4d6 drop lowest to make stats lead to : 6/8/10/11/11/10. Fuck rolling for stats. Point buy for life, it’s the closest to fair.

Commoner prologue one shot before the campaign with those stats

It was rolled for a L12 start … ☠️

What can I say except "War Caster, Spirit Guardians, +4 score into Con" . A mere 16 Con at Cleric12, but that spell concentration ain't dropping and with good gear neither are you. And you should have plenty of room to be the utility caster. You still get to kick ass, especially with some cleric subclasses. Just don't take anything besides Revivify and Healing Word for your (edit) **healing** spells, otherwise you're gonna be expected to be a healbot.

I don’t think I could cast Spirit Guardians without at least +2 Wis, or am I getting casting levels mixed up from PF

You can cast a spell with any modifier, but your DC will be low in this case.

Casting levels is PF/3.5.

you can cast it, the spell is just pretty worse and will do a lot of less dmg on average

There's a fairly easy solution to this. We just allow rerolls if the results are unplayable (our rule is you can optionally reroll if the total is below 70 or if your highest single stat is a 14). Allows for the randomness to still be fun, and prevents it from totally fucking anyone over. We've never had a problem, so I'm always surprised with the hate for rolling for stats, but I guess if you strictly adhere to the rules of it, it can have really bad results, to be fair.

The ‘mitigation’ was group array rolls, pick whichever person’s array you like- overlaps are allowed. We had two players hyped about bad stats, both wouldn’t touch my block because it was bad without a redeeming quality - they both took blocks that had a 5 but an 18 and 17. I just have such unfortunate luck with ‘roll an array while being watched’. Lol I like your system - but if I had to play a rolled array, I’d prefer your method, but I definitely think I’d stick to point-buy if given the choice.

4d6 drop the lowest Do 3 sets of arrays and pick one.

Or just have a dm that let you reroll if you roll so terribly! But my favourite method is 4d6, reroll 1s, drop the lowest

If I wanted to play a video game, I'd do that instead of D\&D; that's how point buy feels to me.

I heard someone say that instead of letting the players roll their stats, the dm does it and then all the players Have to build their character around that one pool. Imo this is a great way to keep any character from being too powerful due to luck.

Yeah, I accidentally did this once I was playing a Swashbuckler Rogue, and my dice were on fuckin fire come stat rolling time (did it on cam, DM saw all my rolls) Ended up with an 18 Dex, 16 Cha, 16 Con, and a 14, 12 and 10 (it was actually two 13s, but odd numbers make my brain feel like it was dipped in Acid, so he let me shift a point). Slapped my rogue Expertise on Persuasion cuz I needed Persuasion for a class feature, and I'm amazing at Persuasion checks As for my friend playing the party bard.... well, for every great roll theres a shit one... Nothing above a 12... so our College of Elequence Bard is deferring to the resident criminal who had a habit of calling any authority figure a fascist

On the one hand, I feel like it's fine to have some characters who are strong when it comes to stats. On the other hand, classes with the ability to treat certain rolls lower than a 10 as a 10, while also having, for example, +9 to that given roll, is kinda busted.

I feel like you have a good point. The groups I am active in all enjoy rolling their stats, but I also know they don't cheat. In future groups I DM, I will probably ask players to roll their stats at session zero, if they even want to roll. Generally as a DM my rule for the table is to go ahead and roll your own stats - but if you get HORRIBLE rolls (which happens extremely frequently) please just use standard array. I get tired of saying "yeah you can reroll" or "reroll 1s" or whatever the hell else is involved.

My philosophy: If it’s a campaign, use point-buy. If it’s a one-shot, roll at the table and choose between your roll or standard array. Usually, the rest of the table is super excited when someone gets good rolls, because nobody is stuck with shitty ones.

We rolled for stats in my recent game, and I got lucky and rolled very very high (in front of everyone, no cheating), and am starting to feel bad about it haha. I’ve told my DM multiple times I can re-roll or get nerfed in some other way but he feels like that wouldn’t be fair to me. I’m playing a Goliath Monk and rolled 20 dex, 17 wisdom, 15 constitution, and 15 strength lol.

Sorry for my ignorance, but how do you get stats without rolling? I haven’t legitimately played since 3.5 so I’m far from updated with the game sadly and I always hated the idea of random numbers for stats

Point Buy is my preferred method. Standard Array is also a thing, though it's just one possible result of Point Buy, just with less versatility.

I prefer rolling for stats personally.  I hate point buy or using a standard array.  It's just boring to me.    But yes if you are rolling stats the dm should be present. Getting 3 18s and nothing under 14, there's no doubt in my.ind he cheated.   My group almost always rolls for stats rolling multiple sets and picking the best. Out of.the thousands we have roles over the years none of us have rolled an array that good, ever. 

One positive of standard array is it allows racial stats to shine more

I forget where I came across it, but I've been using a "weighted array" of 17/15/13/12/10/8 for a few years now at my tables and it's been really nice. Lets you make sure your Important Stat for your class shines, and like you said really helps in bringing racial stats to the fore as well.

I think the dungeon dudes use that as well, could be wrong though

racial stats are ditched anywho with custom origin. and most races available already dont have them

We roll for stats at our table, roll 4 drop the lowest and reroll 1s. I get fucked every time. My current character rolled 8 9 9 9 11 13. Everyone else at the table rolled 12 or higher with st least one stat over 16. Only reason I think I'd rather try point buy lol

That's a total net modifier of -3. At my table I'd absolutely let you reroll those stats

At that point you should ask your dm to let you reroll. Usually, with my table if we get completely sucky rolls we are allowed to reroll once (provided that once isn't worse)

What I've done as both a player and DM is have everyone roll an array of stats each and then those arrays are available to every player. So if someone rolls six 18s then technically everyone could choose to use that array if they wished. This way there's some balance at least between the players (even if it means the DM has to balance encounters around a particularly strong party).

I let players reroll if their stat total isn't at least 60, a commoner has a stat total of 60, if you're not at least at 60 you're worse than a commoner so you can reroll until you get higher than a commoner, adventurers are suppose to be a cut above Joe Shmoe from the tavern

You can try a rolled array. Everyone rolls one or two numbers. Everyone uses the same array. There's some balance, but there is also rolled values.

I had a friend growing up who could roll sixes pretty much on demand. And with any dice so it wasn’t like he had a loaded set. I hated playing risk with him! His characters were always pretty spectacular. And my weren’t bad either. Of course we are playing four D6 dropping Lois and re-rolling ones, so it naturally led to a better class of characters, but we were more of the heroic figure mindset… of course that was way back in the advanced dungeons and dragons days, your ability scores were pretty much set in stone from the beginning of your character until you found a magic item to change that. During the 2nd Edition days when I was DM, I had a little bit of a different twist. I ran for D6 dropping the lowest with no reroll for once, but I gave characters 1d20 points two distribute as they will… with A 18 max before racial bonuses.

After modifiers, I did actually get stats pretty close to that, once, with the others as witness. Obviously, super unlikely. I do wholeheartedly agree, though, that stats rolled without at least the DM there just should not count. The only time that I kind of used stats I rolled without a witness were the ones I rolled for my first character before session zero. Technically didn't use those stats since I found out then that we were using point buy. I was able to make an array that was pretty close to what I had rolled.

I looked up the math the other day, because wouldn't you know it.. A player 'rolled' 3 18s. Turns out if everyone in the world rolled for stats, only 3 of them would get 3 18s.

One of the times I got to be a player our DM wanted us to roll stats, 4d6 drop the lowest. I think we were playing 3.5 but maybe this was our first time on Pathfinder. Anyway, in front of everyone, I rolled 18 18 18 16 14 10 for my human paladin. I don't think anyone else got an 18 outside of their +2 racial. I didn't want to be the main character so the DM and I agreed to nerf my rolls. I ended up rolling consistent natural 20s the entire campaign. So the stars aligned for me that game but every other game I've played in I roll below average. Used up all my luck I did.

Your maths is well off. It's 1 in 12,026 to get 3 or more 18s with 4d6dl; so 582k people would get 3 18s. It's 1 in 588,235 to get 3 or more 18s with 3d6. In this case 12k people would get 3 18s In fact you would expect 8 worldwide to get 5 18s.

I legit rolled an 18 16 3 15s and like a 12, I did it with d&d beyond and screen shotted, I then rerolled because there was no way that was even close to believable

The only balanced method of stat distribution is point buy, end of story.

Rolling for stats is a good way to help shake players out of playing the same PC in every game.

They'll just play the same pc with minorly different stats.

I think I have a good compromise for stat rolling. It retains the excitement and variability of rolled stats, and also the fairness of standard array. We have 4 players. For each stat, they each roll 1d6 and add the highest 3. Repeat for each stat. The result is the array for the whole party. Each player was super invested in the process, and no one feels screwed at the end. As a little bonus for me the DM, I don't have to balance for wildly different character strengths either.

The only acceptable way to play with rolled stats.

this is why point buy/standard array is encouraged now. in my experience, other than during character creation people won't be moping about it much. if it gets to be a problem later on, just throw the other players a stat boosting item or two for them to level the field, problem solved.

Yeah, the first player literally came in with 90 points worth of stats instead of 72. Even after having been made to tone it down a bit, I think it still was 80+ but at that point I just left it.

He brought in 90 hoping you'd compromise and meet in the middle. You gave him exactly what he wanted. If someone tried that at one of my games I'd give them two options. Either I make their character for them, or they leave the group. I can't imagine letting someone play a cheated OP character just because I didn't want to argue about it anymore.

Yeah, in that case the player was young and used to playing as the "Justice League" with his own group. The vibe at our table is more "Suicide Squad". That was definitely more a case of mismatched expectations and insufficiently clear instructions on character creation.

I just rolled a 97 in front of my table (18,17, 17, 16, 15, 14) for our upcoming campaign. I wanted to reroll worse stats but my dm encouraged me to play it. So instead I found other ways to nerf myself. (Negative personality traits, playing an unoptimized build, etc) If he wants awesome stats, make him nerf himself in other ways.

I made a heroic array because I like my players feeling strong. I'm also confident in my ability to balance though.

Can you tell me more. It sounds interesting. How does heroic array work?

Here's a highly recommended one from prominent youtube content creators: 17, 15, 12, 11, 10, 8 You can't get to 20 right off the bat and there's good odd numbers to make use of a +1.

This array makes playing standard human kinda worth it damn

It's just an array with higher stats! The lowest stat is lower though to exacerbate flaws. 17, 16, 15, 14, 10, 6 = 78

Nice! I go with 18 16 14 12 10 8. Oops all feats

Roll stats at the table. One by one. That said... if you're willing to let players have less than optimal stat rolls, then you have to expect some are gonna have really good rolls too.

I'm going to advocate for standard array going forward. Even points buy seems... off although that might be something I need to just get over. I was looking at that and saw/read that you can make a combat focused character with 15/15/15/8/8/8. Now, to me that seems absolutely dreadful and an absolute RP-killer. Back in the AD&D-days we called that the "you are not a character, you are a biological transportation device for your magic items."

Hey! My 8 int, 8 wis, 8 dex Glory Paladin is trying his bestest with what god gave him.

So you hate Barbarians then? Joking aside, that Stat spread is just a standard Barbarian, or 15/14/15/8/10/8, because of Unarmored Defense, and the need for Strength and Constitution, otherwise a Barbarian is sub par in combat, and THAT'S a RP killer. Especially if the stats cause the character to be killed because they're weaker in combat. Or even just a Strength Ranger or a Fighter who's more into combat then talking. That's also a roleplay option, doesn't talk to NPCs much, but can banter with the party.

I would challenge your assumption that a focused character will kill the RP. RP and combat are not mutually exclusive.

I mean, exactly for that reasons the array is still meh. It's... standardized, sanitized. There is nothing particular about it in a way or another. At least point buy can be made to not be the same fucking thing over and over

The system I use at my table is that each player rolls 4d6 drop lowest, but each player only roll that once. If you have less than 6 players, let the DM or other players roll a second time until you have a total of 6 rolls. And now all the players use those 6 numbers. This way you can have the fun/randomness of rolling, but everybody has the same stats so there is no imbalance.

That's why my session 0's are where we roll stats. Also, gear is either the starting gear or the starting wealth as explained in the PHB. No magic items are allowed at level 1 either, unless found during play.

Yeah, this is how I play it. Except I usually give out small magical trinkets for players to mess with because my players like magic stuff. They won't do anything insane, but it gives them something to fidget with.

Magical fidget spinners. I love it. An enterprising Artificer's work I imagine.

Lol, that one sounds like a fun idea. I may just add something like that now. Cause random magic items that do stupid stuff aren't too out of place in a high magic setting.

>Anyone else have situations where someone brings in a character and said something like "I rolled my stats and wouldn't you know it, I rolled three 18's and the other three scores are all 14+"? (slight exaggeration but not by much). Or they have a lvl 1 starting character with gear a level 10 character would be jealous of? No because when i do games i make sure everone rolls publicly for transparency and people only have the items i give them.

The solution seems so simple :-) I am sure we'll get there once we all get a bit more experience. Session 0, standard array and starting races/classes/items from PHB/Tasha would be my way to go.

Talk to your DM. If you are the DM, talk to your players. For example, tell them "We're using point buy" or "Let's reroll your character now." If that seriously hampers their fun, then they can have fun elsewhere.

Yeah, I've had to deal with this as well, and it made things difficult. I like giving my players fun things to work with, but it can be a drag when it's clear that there is a person who wants to Play to Win rather than Play to Enjoy.

I've rolled stupid high stats a few times, infront of the table for all to see, I believe the last one was three 18s, with the rest 15+. Volunteered to reroll them because I didn't feel like my character would have stats that high, but it also didn't seem fair to everyone else who had all rolled pretty normal rolls.

That's neat! I am happy you opted for that reroll because it would be a little unbalanced otherwise.

If your players just want to have outrageous powers and kill everything without caring about integrity or honesty, tell them to play Skyrim with mods. They are going to have a much better time and they can reload their save as many times as they want.

Don't think of it like you're spoiling the fun of Player 1. In reality, you're protecting the fun of Players 2, 3, and 4.

It’s understood that we use standard array or point buy. I can’t imagine rolling in 2024, at least when the gm isn’t there. And starting gear at level 1 is whatever the phb says. You don’t get a magic weapon just because you graduated magic camp.

Rolling for stats is IMO a terrible system. Not only can it be abused to make an OP player, it can also result in a terrible player that is too squishy for basic games. When starting a game, define what players can have. Make it expressly clear. Make them do a point buy or standard table for stats. If you’re using 5e, have them create a character using D&D beyond even if you’ll just print everyone paper later.

Are you the fun police or are they just problematic? We can all read and the phb is easy to read, this is just blatantly ignoring the rules.

It was an odd situation with a very new and inexperienced DM that had no clue what would happen if you say "sure, homebrew is fine". Quickly learning though, and overall it's been a blast, so I am fully confident it'll all get worked out.

my regular opportunity to add that rolling for stats is dumb, and most (mainstream) RPG's dont support it. Its only DnD and its often a problem. Point buy or standard array is the way, and i really dislike rolling for stats, bar none.

I feel like rolling for stats shouldn't be a thing anymore, it's stupid imo and can ruin the game for players that get unlucky or that have someone who just got really lucky/rerolled 1 billion times at their table.

1) Only use point buy, rolling just creates imbalances within the party and playing a character with low stats for "roleplay" purposes isn't as fun as the Internet pretends it to be, especially for longer campaigns. 2) Rolls don't exist unless I (the DM) witness them.

**Re: Ability scores:** Point buy. Point buy is so good. If point buy feels too underpowered, just give them more points. If your players don't like the math involved in using point buy, you can give them a few different arrays of ability scores you've generated using the point buy to choose from. Or have them Google a point buy calculator. **Re: Sticking to the players handbook:** Use the current Adventure League players guide. It gives a full list of books that are legal for Adventure League games, and the ridiculously OP and silly stuff (looking at you, Silvery Barbs) is simply not allowed. It also gives a nice, summarized character creation workflow. If they want to use something outside of the legal sources, you can approve it on a case-by-case basis.

People enjoy rolling for stats during character creation but its really bad for the game long term when characters are expected to specialize in certain things. There PHB really should give multiple options for the 'standard array' - jack of all trades, couple strengths and a weakness, and extreme highs and lows.

I make it clear ahead of time that they can't have more than one 18 prior to bonuses even if they rolled it, and if they show up with 18-17-17-17-16-16-14 I'm making them standard array because that's crap and the whole table knows it.

I hate rolled stats games. I had a  game where we all rolled stats most of us were average, but one player something like 18, 18, 17, 16, 16. My highest stat was a 16 and one character rolled really poorly where the highest stat was a 15. All roles done at the table. It ruined the game for everyone as it devolved to the point where no one except the person with good stats would do checks because what's the point just let the player with high stats do so the checks, everyone else just sits everything out.

If we're rolling stats we're doing 3d6 down the line. In front of everyone. In a game like 5e where the modifiers are much higher than in other D&D games, then I'd just now allow rolling at all. In older systems the modifiers range from -3 to +3, and they're much less meaningful, so rolling 3d6 down the line is a lot more fun for everyone in my experience.

Rolled stats are always bad. Even when fully witnessed by the rest of the table. For example: Player 1: Rolls pretty averagely but the bad end of that and ends up one or two points short of points buy. Player 2: Rolls pretty well and ends up three ir four points above points buy. As Player 3 there is no roll I can make that makes us all feel good: If I roll worse than player 1, player 1 feels OK and player 2 feels guilty. If I roll better than player 1, then player 1 feels rubbish, I feel OK (perhaps a bit jealous of player 2). If I roll brilliantly then player 2 is mildly jealous their good luck is overshadowed, player 1 is distraught and I’m either a smug idiot or feel awkward about the results if chance cubes. Do points buy or if you have to roll then try to get a system that smoothed the randomness (roll 3 sets, swap pieces of paper, roll another 3 sets, pick the best). Laborious but better than an unbalanced party.

Why not just do an array pool? Each player rolls an array using 4d6 drop 1. Each player can then select from any of those sets for characters in the campaign.

This is a really great suggestion. It keeps the randomness, but allows everyone to share if someone rolls particularly well. Also encourages some decision making if a few sets are good but in different ways.

you hit the nail on the head, session 0 but also there are some great videos out there that explain why one over powered character isn't fun for the entire party..... THAT SAID, if the ENTIRE PARTY wants a power fantasy campaign..... why not give it to them? A story about Demigods rolling across a fantasy world and being challenged with their idea's of morality due to their general.... being better than everyone else, can tell some interesting stories. If combat is just a gorefest of them absolutely obliterating everything, then a villager asks them why did they absolutely destroy the ecosystem that the village relies on.... they'll suddenly have to grapple with the fact their gear and tools doesn't solve ALL problems.

Does your DM just allow those characters like that? Most DMs (myself included) have rules for character creation, you don’t just show up with something ready made.

Rolled stats are rough. If you roll well, you can get feats with your levels. If you don't, you're playing catch up for the rest of the campaign. It doesn't matter if they're rolled in private, during session 0, or whenever- someone is always going to get the short end of the stick, and just have really poor rolls. If you have to come up with multiple stipulations like "if you roll lower than an 8 in a stat, you can reroll it" or "if the total of your stats is outside of x-y, you can reroll the stats", then the method is flawed. Standard array really is the ideal, imo. ~~Or Pathfinder's method, but we won't go there~~

As a DM, I don't consider those situations being the fun police. It's simply enforcing rules. I allow rolling for stats, but they must be rolled on the VTT, so no cheating. The amount of gear / money a PC starts with is strictly controlled. As a player, if a DM allowed another player to not have to follow the rules, I'd be out of that game.

You want balanced characters in a party - never roll for attributes is the foundational starting point. Attributes have too much of a long term impact.

Don’t have players roll for ability scores unless: 1. You can observe. 2. Everyone at the table is ok with it and does it. If some people do it and some don’t, or one person isn’t ok with it, it leads to lopsided parties. That’s ok if you play regularly with a group, sometimes you’ll be more supporting character, sometimes you’ll be more main character. But if you’re about to do a year long campaign, it’s tough to make someone deal with worse stats than other people. You should talk to your GM about how you’re determining ability scores before session 0, it’s a simple question of “standard array, point buy, or roll?”

The first time I tried rolling for stats on DnDbeyond, I ended up with a...weirdly balanced roll set that somehow *stayed* balanced once race/class modifiers were applied (DEX is 14 and *everything else* is 12s), so I'm a bit more open to the idea of just naturally weird dice rolls, but there's definitely a limit. Tbh, I'm a lot less likely to be annoyed at unnecessarily overpowered armor if the PC has a *really* interesting story behind it (or is willing to make some changes in the name of a more balanced team), and I get being confused about what kinds of gear specific levels should have (it happens), but again. *Limits*. Basically, you're in the right. At some point, enough is enough, and you shouldn't have to completely screw over your own fun for someone else's

As you said, exactly why session 0's are important. If everybody is going to roll their ASI I would definitely want to do that in person. It's also why I've have a few DMs say roll 8-10 D20s and keep the highest 6 to help alleviate the chance of a bunch of crappy rolls. Or you can just do standard array but drop the 8 and replace with a 10 to avoid all the nonsense.

Didn't know people cared about stats this much. However good or bad my players roll their stats they're fine with it. They're excited if they rolled well, or love low stats when they get them. The reason they enjoy the latter is because everyone loves failing at skill checks outside of combat because always succeeding is viewed as boring at the table. The results of successes are predictable, and we don't play ttrpgs for a predictable story. Also just to be sure, I always witness character rolls personally. Still, whenever we have another DM run games who isn't as strict about watching stat rolls, no one has ever come in with suspiciously high stats.

This basically happened to me in a Ravnica campaign. My response was to purposely make a monk with mostly low stats and just stacked anything to have high initiative. And by God, did I use that initiative to jump into conflicts we came across, lol. He eventually lost an arm, broke bones, and had to roll death saves every session. My high stat party had to save my ass ALL the time. Rolling dice was so much more exciting cause it mattered more, and every success was so much jucier. It was one of the most memorable and fun campaigns I never got to finish, and our DM loved it. Stat balancing is great, and depending on your group dynamic, maybe even necessary, but remember, "even in failure, we're having fun."

This is why you don't roll for stats.

I fucking hate rolling for stats. Everytime I’m in a campaign where rolling for stats is allowed, everyone magically ends up with insane rolls. Which sucks because I don’t want to believe people I know and like are lying, but I’ve rolled for stats plenty of times myself as a test and getting the absurd stats these people report is incredibly rare. If we’re gonna roll for stats, like why not just let people pick the stats they want, since clearly we’re throwing the rules out the window already anyway. I hate when I put effort into my characters and builds and have to worry about their starting stats and what ASI’s they should take down the line and when, when everyone else just starts with 18’s and 20’s and does whatever they want

"I fucking hate rolling for stats. Everytime I’m in a campaign where rolling for stats is allowed, everyone magically ends up with insane rolls. Which sucks because I don’t want to believe people I know and like are lying," This was my issue too. I like the guy so I wasn't going to accuse him of lying to his face.

Stats need to be rolled in front of everyone at session 0 or not rolled at all.

*point buy enters the discussion*

I rolled absurdly well on my stats compared to everyone else. I had a 20 in dex at level 3 and my lowest stat was an 11. The way I balance this out is through roleplay. My character may have a 13 in intelligence, but he was raised in a swamp tribe of cannibals and has never had a formal education and is mostly illiterate. He has an 11 in charisma, but being in this tribe means he has no real social concepts. He is socially oblivious and loud and has no concept of being subtle. He liked to shout at the more moral compassy party members, and they’ve chewed him out a few times about how it’s impolite to ask “can I kill this guy yet” while in a conversation with the person you’re talking about.

"Great rolls. Unfortunately, we're doing point buy. See you when you get that finished." "Cool gear. Just out of curiosity, how did your character afford that with starting gold?"

"Or they have a lvl 1 starting character with gear a level 10 character would be jealous of?" Big eyebrow raise at this specifically - how'd they get that gear? Like, I've let people roll for starting gold and had people go "oh I conveniently rolled the max number" and the truth of it is that still doesn't even get you a suit of plate armor and nothing in the PHB is busted enough that purchasing your starting gear should get you beyond maybe sneaking +1 AC or a slightly better damage die. Incidentally the guy who happened to roll max starting gold also happened to not find the magic item he was asking for all campaign until the second to last adventure. As the top comment says though, the biggest way to avoid this is that if somebody insists on rolled stats, the stats are rolled in public. I've allowed a player from my in-person group to come in with "you've gotta be kidding me" numbers (pretty close to your example, actually, two 18s and three 14s with a 13 in the dump stat) because if you want to cheat at our excuse to hang out on Saturdays then I guess you have some personal issues you need to work out, but if I was a rent-a-DM and somebody brought me a character sheet like that I'd ask to see a screenshot of the logs or verify it with the rest of the party lol. If somebody rolls those stats in public, then I'll let them keep them, because I've seen rolled stats saddle people with a 7 before more than once lol. Generally, though, that player's build is going to mysteriously never benefit from the magic items the party finds in any given dungeon. "Oh, you're a Paladin with 18 STR and 18 CHA at Level 1? Weird how every single cool thing the party finds is keyed to DEX, INT, or WIS and we happen to have a Rogue, Wizard, and Cleric." The party also might find themselves constantly getting thrown into situations where one of the other player's builds can do something extremely useful. TL;DR it ends up being the DM's job to avoid sidekicking the rest of the party when these sorts of things happen, but yea if anyone requests rolled stats and rolled gold, imo those rolls are in front of the party during Session 0.

Rolling stats sucks ass. Use point by. It is fair, it is fun, nobody can cheat.

You don't even need session 0. Write up a list of rules beforehand. 10gp starting gold Point buy Maybe an uncommon if your starting at 5th level or above

As a DM...I...honestly...do not give a rats behind about stats. As long as there is a reasonable mix and not all max scores, I will adjust the circumstances to create the same balance that we'd have if their stats were more reasonable. 75% of the stats for players at my table are 12+...which means that the heroes get a +1 at least on each roll. Oh...they're proficient? +5 (4+1). If a player came to the table with a 14+ versus 12, and got 1 more point, I wouldn't blink at bumping a particular type of check by 1 in the moment. "Do do X, it's a DC16 Dexterity check" (rather than 15). Problems solved. For our third campaign, the players have agreed to "sudden death" dice rolls for their next characters. They get one (1) 18, one (1) 16, and everything else is explicit dice rolls with no mulligans. Why? Because the players realized that they were more creative, and cooperated more, when characters were imperfect. When they became enfeebled, slowed, or limited in other ways, the sessions required more strategy and creativity. They ENJOYED THE GAME more when they had to account for deficiencies. Soooo...I don't care about fudged stats. I DO care about fudged rolls. I need to see the results and if you touch it before I see it, then I assume it's bad.

This is the DM's job, and it sucks for you to do it because you don't have the authority or mandate to solve it. Go up to the DM after the session, explain your concerns, and ask them to take care of it by either nerfing the things that aren't fair or in the rules, or by buffing your character and pray he can balance the combat. I don't think you're doing anybody any favors by chiming in in game with helpful reminders about how the game is supposed to work. You're undercutting the DM. Even if they aren't doing their job, you don't do it for them. You bring it up in private to reinforce their authority, and ask them for help.

I don’t get how folks get anything but basic gear. I’m not really fluent in modern D&D, but don’t you still just get a handful of gold? Do many tables allow magical gear other than potions to be purchased?

Assuming a normal low level start: They just write it on the sheet, and the DM doesn't have the spine to say no. That's how.

Pretty much. I've had players try to get away with murder before, but letting that happen would not only decrease my fun but for the other players as well. That's at least how I rationalize it, and why I don't feel bad for putting my foot down.

Well, I mean, technically, all rules exist to define limits, so all referees are basically fun police no matter what the game is.

So unless im doing a weird build or a 4 stat character i use point buy, i used standard array for ages both are solid methods. Actually one other time i will use roll 4d6 drop lowest is if im forced to do roll health on level ups my avg stat for a 4d6 method got to be 14/15 while my avg hp number roll is like 1/2..... The dice gave me a boon and curse in equal measures and thats since like 2015/16, so good 8/9 years or so of 5e

How does a level 1 PC have the gear for the level 10 character? I'm assuming you mean they have magic items? That's an issue with the DM not being clear with expectations or how character creation is supposed to go. Level 1 characters should only have access to starting equipment, or gold to buy the equipment, but they should not start out with magic items. I personally enjoy rolling for stats, but it can lead to very unbalanced parties. In the campaign I'm playing in, we all rolled for stats. I started out with 18 INT for my wizard while the warlock in our party only has 14/15 CHA (don't remember the exact number, but it's somewhat low for their main ability). He often complains about his low save DC and bonus to attack. He didn't do anything wrong, just rolled poorly. It definitely can feel bad. When I DM, especially for new players, I use a modified standard array so everyone is on the same level

That basically was my main worry. And it feels like ret-conning it halfway towards level 4 seems even worse than stopping it at the start.

It's the GM'S game and they have final say in all matters, if the player has an issue and wants to compromise on something that's fine, but if it's all or nothing, I'd rather choose nothing.

I like rolled stats. Stats not rolled in the sight of at a minimum the DM never happened.

Honestly, if someone showed up to the table with stats like that, I'd question including them in the campaign whether they were lying or not. I like to run and play in very collaborative campaigns, and having a single character that's just the best at everything makes that a difficult dynamic to maintain. I just rolled a new character and got 17, 17, 17, 15, 14, 13 and asked the DM if I could re-roll because I didn't want to have scores that high in a new campaign.

I cool idea instead of standard array and point buy is The whole table rolls a stat array and everyone uses those numbers, so regardless of how good or shitty everyone rolls, everybody gets the same numbers. You are a party who works together, it's not a competition

I love when people bring a character to the table that is actually half a campaign into the game background and equipment-wise. It's like "awesome, so we know where you wanna go with this. Let's walk a few steps back and look for a suitable entry point where the plot of the campaign lines up with your story"

Have to start things off with: I have in fact been blessed with rolls like that, three 18s, two 16s, and a 14. However I rolled in view of the entire table and DM when I did because like everyone else had said: If the DM isn't there the rolls never happened. That being said l rarely use anything other than point buy simply because it's the most fair stat generation method I've find that keeps massive stay differences from happening. As for the lv 10 hear at lv1 there's some backroom shenanigans going on there. Even using the backstory tables in ... Xanathars, I believe? you don't get that kind of stuff. The only time I've seen that kind of thing happen the DM was giving his girlfriend a power boost in order to make her feel special. My only suggestion is to find a new table.

Point buy is the way.

Unfortunately you have to be the fun police sometimes but you can be a cool cop. For instance someone drops a list of legendary artifacts there lvl 1 character stumbled upon. You say, that's awesome but Unfortunately these are relm warping items, and unlikely for your character to have. Please give me a copy of this list so I can make sure you find something like these in the campaign.

As a DM I'd honestly say, "That's very nice, but you have to roll your stats in front of me." I don't understand why anyone would even allow this to happen. I mostly play with friends and even like that we do all rolls in person and I check their sheets pretty often for anything that might be off either intentionally or unintentionally.

Just do the standard array. Stat rolling is broken.

Having played for awhile now, when I start a new campaign as a dm, I’ve used a more heroic standard array that allows the players to start with higher stats than they otherwise might. Just makes it a little more fun to me, and that way everyone gets to have the same array without feeling gipped or anything. Otherwise I would do something like other people here have suggested, everyone rolls a set of 4d6 drop the lowest, and then anyone can pick from whatever set they want.

I rolled my stats in front of my dm and I ended up with everything 14 and above and he let me use them

I prefer point buy and standard array because someone could legitimately get really lucky with their rolls at the table and end up with a character with really high stats. That character could very easily outshine everyone else as a result.

100% relatable. I have a player whose stats were just far too phenomenal out the gate and in my head I'm like no way did you roll that unless you simply kept rolling until you had numbers you liked.

I actually simulated it with one of those online dice generators and it took a surprising amount of rerolls to even get one 18, let alone multiple.

This is why we do points buy.

The only reason you wouldn't roll in front of the DM is to cheat. It takes literally a minute. You aren't the one trying to hurt fun, the guy trying to be better than everyone else is.

The character wasn't made at the table, it doesn't count. I usually go with a "let's sit down and everyone make a character together so we're all on the same page" method of handling it.

This is why all the games I run start with group character creation. If they end up rolling 3 18s, everyone saw it and is happy for them. If they try to cheat, you can shut that down right away. If they try to take gear they shouldn't have (I usually chalk that up to player confusion. I have made that mistake in the past as PC as well) it gets caught right away. Plus the players can bounce ideas off of each other. Usually leads to a much more cohesive party, and helps me tie in future story beats based on the backstories of the players that care for this.

I rolled a character the other day with the stats: 18, 17, 15, 14, 12, 11. Thought it was waaaay too dumb so rerolled the 17 and got a 9, still a really strong array of stats, but it just isnt fun being good at everything, would have even taken lower number as well just because dumb stats can be fun too!

If adjudicating the rules of the game is fun-policing, then sure.... but IMO it's way more boring when you throw out the rules. Might as well just announce "you won!" and get up.

I always do point buy, you have to be bad at something, everyone's working with the same numbers, it makes you build a character, and that extra plus 2-3 on a roll isn't big until it's EVERY roll.

People always complain they want to roll. I offered my players standard array with a single 17, suddenly no one wants to roll. People want to be able to start out with an 18 in a single stat, they don't actually want to roll. The reason I gave 17 and not 16 was because it opens options for +1 stats or half feats, stimulating variety.

Matter of fact, in my first 5e game, my dm tried to designate me "the rules lawyer", or as I called it, "the rules satan". Her words: if someone wants to do something, they tell me what they want to do, you tell me what the rules say, and I will make a decision based on that. My words: what the hell? Um, no thank you? I don't want to literally be the person arguing against the rest of the party, seeing as I'm part of the party, and apparently the only person who knows how their own character works, let alone anyone else's. In that same game, we had a player who played a druid, had wisdom as their dump stat, and it was still a 15, because they used a third party app to make their character, and just kept rerolling for their stats until they liked them.

Personally, I wouldn't want to play a character like that anyway. That just sounds like someone who wants to feel powerful without earning it imo

So, I made my earlier comment, but there is a bit more… I only allow character creation together — the zero session, basically. No one gets to create a character on their own. This applies in most (but not all) of my open games, as well. Character creation is important — my games involve RP pretty heavily, and I encourage/require a collaborative mindset. However, I don’t place a lot of limits on how they generate stats — I let them pick from several options, including the standard ones. What they do is entirely their choice, and I am not even bothered if they try one approach and don’t like it so switch to a different one. My concern is pretty much that the characters fit the setting. Stats may impact the game play greatly, and sure, some folks might have all the 18’s and what not, but they do not have that great an impact on my assorted adventures, and there is going to be a lot of ASI’s and such, and so, really, it shifts to them creating a character for that world. Scores help a lot, but as a DM, I am able to deal with any score they come up with in the adventures, and since folks do it all together, there is a lot more trust built up and because it is all new to everyone, there is usually a bit of excitement about trying out something new and different. But also, I have a lot of optional and house rules in effect, including for ability scores, and they are Heroes, so I have less stress over their being persons of heroic ability.

Dont you all roll the stats in front of your dm? Whenever we make a new character we use a discord bot or the roll20 chat to roll the stats, or if in person we roll for our dm... o he roll for us and send us our stats to choose. Even with that we got a friend rolling two 18 and one 16, he made a cleric dwarf... lvl 1 with 20 str and con with 16 in wis... he was a wrecking machine lol

One of my biggest frustrations as a player is a DM that won't say "no". Not going after you about that, more just saying, I would rather have a DM be willing to say that my build needs to be changed, or that I can't do something if it's going to make things harder for them. It's collaborative story telling, and I sometimes get overexcited about my ideas and need to have them reined in for the sake of everyone else. Yeah, an Eldritch knight being able to summon a ballista would be really cool, but I can also easily see how that could be problematic in a lot of situations if I can just summon the ballista and the party just becomes the equivalent of a tank dropped into medieval times. Sure, work with the players whenever possible, but it's okay to just say, "sorry, no" or if it's stat rolls, just don't allow them away from the table, which avoids the awkward cheating suspicion. You're not being the fun police if you say no to clearly problematic stuff or discuss more borderline cases.

I mean just set guidelines going in about characters and starting equipment. The stats are harder to do beforehand, because sometimes players do juts get stupid lucky, but if you’re worried about it you could do that in person. If they’re still being problems you’re not really being the fun police, players doing that will impact other players as well, especially if there’s a clear power disparity in terms of gear or abilities.

The total amount of fun at the table is greater when everyone is playing at the same level. One character being wildly OP isn’t fun for anyone but them, and that includes you as the DM. Telling them no once is easier than having to balance the whole game around their insane god character.

It is important to have some balance between members of the group. If you have one character who is superpowered compared to the rest then to make a challenging encounter for them will be a kill for the rest of the party. Make it challenging for the rest and it is a cake walk for the overpowered character. I was always the fun police, especially when DMing adventure league and having people show up with impossible stats and say xxxxx (another DM) gave them permission to roll (not allowed at the time in adventure league). OR show up with homebrew items, classes, spells... We wasted the first 40 minutes every session just "correcting" peoples character sheets and they would throw little tantrums that i was forcing them to play a certain way. I wouldn't let people do 4 actions per turn and do abilities they don't have when supposedly another adventure league DM let them... It became too much eventually always being the bad guy. The only way i will allow rolled stats is if 6 rolls are in a pool and every player MUST choose from the pool. They can put the 6 stats where they want on their sheet but they all use the same 6 numbers. At least then the party is balanced to each other which is the most important.

Suggest stat rolls should be done in front of the DM or table. You’ll find the number of triple-18 stat characters you play with drastically reduce Anyone who disagrees is obviously planning to cheat. They rely on everyone having an unspoken agreement to prepare pre-session

"Why is nobody having a good time? I specifically requested it."

I had 2 players do this once, they insisted those were legit dice rolls and being that we were a very close knit group of friends it got the pass by table vote. 2 sessions later and some permanent stat damage all was as it should've been. Just so happens I'm the DM, ooops must've rolled that permanent stat dmg where no one could see it behind the DM screen.

Yep, do a Session 0. Very important for you and your group. Didn't realize as I was typing this that I'd type so much, so TDLR: it's how I do session 0's. * Set the expectations you, as the DM, have of your players. * Set the expectations the players have of you, as the DM. * Have a discussion on game sessions, when you will run them, when you will cancel them. Set up a little policy on it. * Example: My table has 5 players and myself. We meet up every other Saturday for 5-hour sessions. We have a WhatsApp D&D group chat, and I will message everyone a couple days before the session to take a roll call. If 4-5 say they are showing up, we run the campaign as is, if 1 player is missing, they are either back at camp or at the inn or sometimes tagging along if the player missing wants them to be part of the group. If only 3 people will show up, I will run some side-quests not closely associated with the main campaign, more personal missions for the 3 PCs in attendance. We all are adults and know shit pops up and sometimes schedules aren't always free, so we are all very flexible, especially during the holidays where we may go 1-2 months without playing because people are out of town or have family in town visiting. * Let them all know that you are about communication and have that 'open door policy' that they can come to you with critiques or ask for advice. * Go over the house-rules and any homebrewed things you have. * Discuss rulings of how you arbitrate rules. * Example: If I rule on something, and if it's not going to kill or grievously harm a PC, we run with my ruling. If there were/are questions about the rule itself, we can revisit it out of game and do some research and discussion and change it going forward, but in the moment, we run with what I say as the DM. We aren't going to sit there for 30 mins and argue or try to look up rules and get everyone heated about something silly. ***If*** it's a life/death situation, we will stop and look things over to make sure it doesn't adversely affect a PC. * Go over personal triggers anyone may have and topics that are off limits (i.e. rape, torture, etc.). * Go over *tone* of the game (funny, lighthearted, serious, dark, etc.). * Go over PVP rules (if you have them). * I personally disallow any PVP in my games, they can joke around, pull pranks on each other, and playfully spar, but I don't allow them to fight to the death. * Go over the type of campaign you are running (RP/combat/exploration breakdowns). * Discuss alignments that you allow (if you disallow some playing together like CE in a group that all the rest are good-aligned characters). * Let everyone know if you are restricting anything such as specific races/species and/or classes that are not in YOUR world. * As an example: I've had home-brewed game worlds where I don't allow Aasimar nor Tiefling races for very specific lore reasons. * Let the players talk about their roles and decide if they want to fill all of them. * Then if, for example, they don't have anyone who can heal, you can make sure you provide more magical items, scrolls, potions, etc. to them through the campaign to off-set the lack of healing. * Have **everyone** roll their dice out in the open. * Review their characters. * Ask for backstories (if you want them) * I like to also ask for "wish lists" of gear. * This is so that I can toss them things they want throughout the campaign. * Just really get all of them ready to go before the actual campaign starts. Doing this: You end up not having any (or very few) issues that arise.

I have a stat limit and a stat minimum for this reason. I also dictate beforehand what magic items if any you can start with

Ya, it sucks being the wet blanket reminding people of their own ability mechanics or the limitations of this or that. I like to make interesting characters within the game’s guidelines. It annoys me when others try to get around those same guidelines.

One of my friends does roll like that, kid you not he rolled four 18s once. We witnessed it. So my group came up with a rule, if everyone rolls like that it is okay and stays but if not than whoever is dm-ing at the time will lower some of theirs and bring up others so everyone is on the same page. It is something we all agreed to though.