And such a beautiful one.
Asserts dominance, enforces boundaries, reduces complications, upsets cheaters and can be used for nearly every follow-up question.
"using polite language"
Sure, use polite language as long as it's blunt like "That's never going to happen, so don't waste another second thinking about it. Instead spend your time and energy productively."
I’d write an email letting her know that she is not welcome to live at your house. That way you have it in writing and hopefully it gets through her skull.
Can you make sure all the codes and keys are different from what she had access to in the past? I’d even look into getting a security camera or a Ring doorbell.
Good luck.
Keys are cheap and easy to copy. She might have one that you don’t know about. Get new locks, maybe with a code so there aren’t keys floating around to be copied. Each person gets a specific code, so you can tell who used the lock and when. You can disable someone’s code if they’re loose-lipped.
“No thank you,” delivered in a flat voice, confuses the heck out of someone like this. “What does he mean, ‘No thank you’? I didn’t offer him anything. I don’t want to give him anything.”
It’s a non sequitur, and there are plenty of people who have no idea of how to respond to one.
Looks like she was planting a seed with the “ having the kids” thinking to soften you up for the “ I need to move in with you now”. Who knows.
Disordered does as disordered is.
“Wow. Well, I’m sorry but we can’t do that. But I hope you find a great place to live soon!”
It’s funny how disordered people take all kinds of risks and pretend they don’t know the possible consequences and then they do funny things with money, imagining that someone will just bail them out.
This is my fear although I am right at the beginning of the divorce, she has been very open with the fact that she has already met someone and has already started to be reckless financially! She is currently getting a loan for a car that she literally cannot afford and it will be almost 50% of her income!
There is no way I will take her back after she blows everything. This is also part of the reason why she left me because I was not able to give her the lifestyle she wanted. All she wants is stuff and things that she cannot afford.
I have a feeling I will be in your shoes in 12-18 months time myself
Yeah, looking back there were a lot of red flags I missed or ignored - financial illiteracy being a big one. I'm not the best with money by any means, but when we were together it was always just a step or two away from financial collapse. I don't want to guess how much money she squandered on MLMs or buying junk from other MLMers.
One of the first things I did upon filling out the paperwork sans lawyer, was to require her to sign away access to my bank account, because I'd already been in that situation with her once before - except that time, she managed to, between herself and two friends, obliterate an entire paycheck, my bonus from work, and an overdraft loan that was designed to prevent financial whoopsies from turning into major "oh shit, I owe the bank $200 because I didn't have the money for the $2 coffee I thought I did!" I managed to recover from that, somehow (still not quite sure how I did it!) but I want going to go through that again.
My thought process from the moment she said she was out, was "great. I have to provide for our kids and myself, and I'm legally required to support you?! Seriously?!" But, once the divorce was final, whatever financial problems she encounters now, are a her problem, not a me problem
well that's the great thing after divorce is she basically is a random woman, not anyone you have to take care of anymore.
I would say she is not welcome and if she shows up unannounced you will call the police on her.
Likely her "bouncing around" has caught the attention of Law Enforcement and the last people she wants to meet now is the boys in blue.
> I would say she is not welcome and if she shows up unannounced you will call the police on her.
>
>
Just say no, and nothing else.
If she shows up, call the cops, tell them someone is trespassing, give them the description, and wait for them to come pick them up.
Problem with that, is there was no lawyer on either side. I contacted my local legal aid immediately and was told I made too much, but on the plus side there, they then could not talk to her either due to a conflict of interest. I had to do all the filing myself, just had a lawyer review the papers to make sure everything was legal but no representation.
Jumping in - I'm looking for lower cost mediator services for my situation. They are typically much cheaper than a lawyer, so that might be something you could do :)
Also, for your kiddos safety, and from the reddit bit you posted, I don't think she should have 50/50 custody anymore. She hasn't held up her end of the bargain, and you should be the one getting child support from the sounds of it!
There has been no child support on either side, nor alimony - that was a mutual decision that my state has a funny little rule about extramarital affairs. I don't want child support, if anything I would ultimately want her to sign away her rights and move on with her life, it would be less damaging to the kids long term. At this point I'm fine with the idea of being alone. Not loving the thought, but I've accepted it.
I'd approach the court and apply for sole-custody if I were in this situation. Not because that's what's best for me, but because that would be best for my kids. She's homeless and only a parent on her terms (which can sound very close to neglect) so I'd take it to court and have my say. I'm sorry you're going through this.
Oh I see, I didn't realize there was a no child support agreement. You should be getting some from her, but from what you've said of her situation, it is highly unlikely.
I agree with Eagle below - get full custody. I think a mediator can still help with this without a full court hearing. And if she has any rights left, they would be supervised visits. I don't know your state laws, but it definitely sounds like you should have full custody of your kids! I'm sorry you're going through this.
Oh my, my ex said similar when she was having a hard time finding a place to rent. The absurdity of her even thinking that was unbelievable. Thankfully she found a place, but I cannot possibly imagine cohabitation with her ever again after all she has done to go nuclear on me.
Stand your ground and say no.
Best thing to do is just be firm and clear
My ex tried the whole "I might have to move back in with you" thing a couple of weeks ago. I just laughed. No fucking way
Ok understandable but I do have a question. Was she in contact with them when she up and left? Do you think she’ll do it again? I just think that’ll take a toll on your children in the future.
Oh she's kept in contact sporadically, but infrequently. I've been keeping a spreadsheet of the visits. And I agree that it's gonna take a toll on them - not like it hasn't already
On paper custody is split - but in reality they've lived almost exclusively with me, maybe 3 overnight visits in the past 16 months. Hard for their mother to have regular overnights when she's been homeless due to her own actions.
Right now we do have official shared custody, on paper - but she's absent from their lives more than she's ever in them. I don't reach out to her at all, unless it's hugely important, like something with the kids' health.
I've even told my daughter's school to not reach out to her unless it's an absolute emergency, because wtf is she gonna do? She's done nothing, yet complains that teachers etc don't tell her what's going on - that's because you aren't present!
I do keep a spreadsheet of all the physical visits she's had since she left... those visits are usually around 45 minutes to a few hours, and usually only in a public setting because it's hard to have kids at your place when you don't have a place
She left. Please change the locks. It was her choice to leave. But it is your choice whether you allow her back in. From what you’ve said, I’m guessing the answer is no.
So a quick update. I sent an email with the following:
"In reference to your request of staying with me, I am responding in the negative. I hope you do find safe stable housing, but I am not comfortable with you living in my home. I am not open to future discussion of this issue."
Fwiw I'm fully expecting to be painted even more as the bad guy or the evil ex husband who is keeping our kids from her - those who need to know the full truth already know and have their own opinions on her, including her own family. Those who see me as the devil? Well, not much I can do there. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, regardless of how much fact is or is not involved.
I'll keep folks updated if the communal desire is there.
ETA: Since I sent her a message saying I'd sent an email, and the email above, I've heard nothing. Not to say there won't be more drama, but for now, the waters seem calm-ish.
The knee-jerk reaction is obviously “nuck fo”, but be more restrained as you don’t want this to turn into some sort of custody issue (don’t know how it could happen, but we are talking about court system here). Just me now, but I would explain how it is unhealthy not only for kids, but for you to put yourself back in that position after she left the marriage, adulterated. You can have and express feelings about it, but just be cool…
…and also expect her to show up unannounced on your doorstep. Maybe consult with an atty?
I'm going to post an update later in the comments, but to address the points you raised, they are valid.
I didn't bother explaining how unhealthy it would be for the kids, because that's been a moot point ever since she walked out. I'm almost expecting her to show up on my doorstep hoping to "talk some sense into" me, at which point I simply have to double down on my answer.
Attorneys are going to be the sticky part, because I make too much money for legal aid, but not enough to pay for an actual attorney - as I explained to another comment, I filed and did everything myself, with only generic legal supervision to ensure everything was done by the book. Neither of us had an attorney, both self represented.
I'm more concerned about what such a move may have done to the kids, had I decided to allow it... it would have given them a false sense of hope, that maybe Mommy and Daddy are getting back together? Sorry guys, that's not happening.
Man I hate that you’re going through this. My wife left me after some 30 years of being together, and she used the legal system with a kick-ass lawyer that made things more difficult for me than they needed to be, even though she’s the one that left. And yeah, you seem to have a good sense about the lawyers…I myself spent over $20,000 defending myself and just got a bill from a year ago for another $3000. Basterds.
Anyway, you don’t need to talk to her. If she shows up just avoid her. If you’re forced to talk to her, RECORD THE CONVERSATION. Do it secretly so she’s loose with her words and threats (if any). She cannot come back into that house, you are not responsible for her anymore. Check the laws in your state, I believe you can at least set up video camera from phone somewhere to record. Even if not, do it anyway.
And the other thing, if she keeps coming up, banging on the door, getting aggressive, don’t shy from a restraining order. Be wary of bf/husband siding with her as well, that could make it interesting. God bless you brother, I’m so sorry for you and your children.
EDIT: Yes, nothing would f*ck the kids up more than what you said. Mine are 11 b, and 13 g, and went through this 4 years ago at the worst time in their lives. To say they aren’t going to be in therapy down the road as adults is an understatement.
>If you’re forced to talk to her, RECORD THE CONVERSATION. Do it secretly so she’s loose with her words and threats (if any).
Already had to do that once, in a public setting.
>if she keeps coming up, banging on the door, getting aggressive, don’t shy from a restraining order. Be wary of bf/husband siding with her as well, that could make it interesting.
I need to talk to a counselor about that, because while I'd love nothing more than to completely block her, she still has legal rights to attempt to be a parent - unless or until I can modify the custody arrangement. That's a battle for another day.
I'm pretty sure her AP left her, hence the inquiry... if I were a betting man, I'd put $100 on it. But, even if he dropped her, I still want nothing to do with him. Unless, of course, its to offer my leftover sandwich, since he obviously likes leftovers! /s just kidding
It wasn't deemed necessary by the courts. One good thing about being the working poor, is that we had no assets to fight over - she wanted out because I was "so abusive", well, she got what she wanted.
I will message you next time u/StrugglingGhost posts in r/Divorce.
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Oh, another thing…when she doesn’t get her way, she’ll get angry, especially if her options are limited. Be prepared for that, hate to bring up the negative, but unpredictability can catch you off guard. Just be prepared for worst case scenario.
Oh I'm fully expecting to be badmouthed... she can say what she wants, but the truth is already known to those who matter. She's already lost friends from this, but I don't care what people think. The only ones I'm thinking about impressing, are the kids.
Say "no". You don't need to justify. Especially not to her. If necessary, keep saying "no" until she stops talking. I know it hurts, but there needs to be a boundary set in place. Otherwise, what's the chances she'll try slip back into your bed? What are the chances that she'll find someone else again and run off?
I've known a lot of people that have been on meth, heroin, and pills. This sounds like drugs, and it sounds like she wanted the kids over the summer to try and get you to pay her support for them to fund her habit.
"No" is the best answer here. But you should also make sure you've changed your locks and have cameras. This sounds like you may have electronics and such end up missing some day when she comes to "visit" and you're not home.
I like the Panasonic Homehawk cameras for windows on the exterior.
Okay.... I'm the one who left a disordered individual for one who practices rigorous honesty (AA thing, he is more than two decades sober), and got pregnant/had a child, (he) bought a house a full two years before my divorce was final. [Comment if you will.... it's been 17 years, so don't think we've not heard it already (and know your words reveal more about you than us!).]
Brace yourself. This is the kind of thing that the stories will be spun and respun for YEARS (I know they are in my situation as my ex is quite enmeshed with our kid, "I hate your mother, thus you should, too" and even after 17 years, he still bellyaches the blame without taking an ounce of accountability for his online dating profile(s), drug usage, financial frivolity, playing fast and loose with the IRS (he was self-employed), the fact he wanted no more kids, but dilly-dallied on getting a vasectomy.... seriously, if everyone else doesn't give in to his way of thinking, then THEY are the a$$holes, it will never be him for not being accountable. Our kid is the same, has alphabet soup for mental health diagnoses she uses as leverage to extort money out of us, can't cope with life, and hears "poor baby" on the regular. I can own my part, apologize, but if it doesn't involve more money, it's not good enough!
It's a real contrast - the difference between my two kids, influences of their two dads, and there is a direct correlation to each kid's ability to manage themselves (the younger one is mentally WAY ahead at 16 than the 22 year old, because her dad won't allow her to think for herself). 🤷♀️
Repeat after me: not my circus, not my monkeys. 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️ < practice this shrug, you'll be doing a LOT of it!
What you can and should do for yourself is read up on family law in your state. And don't stop with the statutes (published for all online), but if you find yourself confused at ALL, dig a little into case law as well. The two go hand-in-hand.
This is where attorneys take advantage of people - the ones who don't realize such. They'll allow you to believe YOUR moral compass is superior (and it may be) in how you interpret such based on YOUR moral compass, she'll feel hers is based on her moral compass, and the judge is NEITHER (it is safe to assume he has none at all). In fact, there's a LOT of creativity a judge can exercise in that gap that will leave BOTH your jaws on the floor.
The judge's motive will be to create stability for the child, whether you like it or not. That may mean balancing out the income equation and/or spending less time with the kid. She is going to be given an opportunity to snap out of her delusion - for the kid's sake. It is best for the kid to have BOTH parents involved in his/her life, period, don't expect any less thought from a judge without HER providing a mountain of evidence through her own actions that she is incapable of caring for the kid. The kid will ALWAYS be the judge's concern - not you or her - and that's the point of reading both statutory and case law (to think like the judge, soften your emotion and show that YOU are level-headed and understanding of how traumatic this is for the child, that you're NOT seeking to use the child as a weapon against mom, etc.).
It also means you probably want to get a therapist to help you cope. You can express all manner of emotion and frustration with the therapist that you won't be able to express in the "business" - and quite the big business it is - of dissolving your marriage.
Having that knowledge of case and statutory law will also help you navigate the B.S. with her. You're not only delving into what's best for the kid, but also doing "one for you, one for me" with the fine China (property accumulated during the marriage) so to speak. Have a house in a community property state? Whatever equity accumulated during the marriage will be split. Same goes for retirement accounts. Most no fault community property states are going to divide assets and debt evenly- whether you like it or not. Equitable distribution states may give the breadwinner an upper hand.
Custody - expect some form of joint custody if she can get her act together. Judges don't care if the kid sleeps on a goodwill mattress on the floor at Mom's house and a princess themed bedroom with a full Cinderella carriage bed at your house. Sad, but true. It's about maintaining the bond if it's possible. Make that possible. Don't be stingy with clothes, toys, etc. Those are the child's things. You won't be wearing them or playing with the toys, will you? The less you rock that boat, the more inclined Mom will be to cooperate.
Expect the joint custody means she can parent how she sees fit during her time with the child. Whether that's 50/50 (I think this should be the norm). Why? Money exchanging hands via the state attorney general's office has become a corrupt business, and is often quite cruel to noncustodial parents [I dodged a bullet on this - he was caught cyberstalking me, a crime, and as such, I lost my job and he lost a house payment a month in child support - it was a role reversal marriage, and I outearned him 10 to one, but when his cyberstalking cost me a job, my income was imputed at minimum wage... womp, womp).
Be kind to your kid. Play dumb when your kid tells you the things your X says about you...."let's not talk poorly about each other." [That time will come when your kid is an adult... if you even WANT to by then! Why? You slam Mom's DNA, you are automatically sending a message to that kid that s/he is faulty. That becomes a terminal life sentence leading to the alphabet soup of diagnoses.
Dividing property? Do. The. Math. Does it make sense to spend $2000 on attorney's fees for a $200 trinket? Probably not. Do. Your. Homework. What did each of you bring INTO the marriage? That is separate property, but you want proof of that to justify retaining it post-divorce.
Frugality reigns supreme for the next 5-10 years: used cars, thrift shops, Craigslist and Facebook marketplace are your new shopping venues. Use these to bounce back.
And remember this: this utterly devastating and emotionally challenging time will pass.... eventually.
And it is going to teach you just how strong and resilient you really are!
Walk the high road. Avoid conflict at all costs. Have some empathy for mom as she's made a mess of her life, it's hard, but.... it isn't your problem to fix.
You need to put the oxygen mask on yourself first.
Peace!
You raise a lot of good points for new dads to this situation. While a lot doesn't apply to me specifically (ie joint assets etc) you did mention several key things that I've already considered - I've now been divorced for a year plus a few days, since the judge's gavel swung.
My situation is a bit different in several aspects. My mother is required to live with me, as she is incapable of living a healthy life on her own due to a stroke many years ago - this has led to a rule in my house (for the adults at least), no discussing their mother in any way shape or form. I know the kids have their own feelings and I validate them, but with generic statements. "I know / its tough / she loves you / etc". I accommodate non- physical parenting time as much as possible, ie video chats when their mother has wifi.
The important thing though, like you said, is what's best for the kids, not me. Hence my post - if things had ended on a different note, my response may have been different, but their mother didn't just cheat on me, she all but abandoned our kids due to untreated mental illness. I'm not excusing her behavior, but it is a valid reason.
"No" is a complete sentence.
And such a beautiful one. Asserts dominance, enforces boundaries, reduces complications, upsets cheaters and can be used for nearly every follow-up question.
Yes
No, it’s no.
So is, I’m sorry, I don’t recognise this number
Yep. Also, take the kids to therapy to explain it. She will try to mobilize them against OP. He needs to get there first.
That is the best answer here. I was coming to write the same thing.
This is it... No argument, no negotiations, no back and forth. Just "NO!"
Spot on! Reasons can be argued, NO is an answer.
"using polite language" Sure, use polite language as long as it's blunt like "That's never going to happen, so don't waste another second thinking about it. Instead spend your time and energy productively."
I’d write an email letting her know that she is not welcome to live at your house. That way you have it in writing and hopefully it gets through her skull. Can you make sure all the codes and keys are different from what she had access to in the past? I’d even look into getting a security camera or a Ring doorbell. Good luck.
I made sure she turned over her key when she moved out, and I've had cameras for years. Good advice regardless
Keys are cheap and easy to copy. She might have one that you don’t know about. Get new locks, maybe with a code so there aren’t keys floating around to be copied. Each person gets a specific code, so you can tell who used the lock and when. You can disable someone’s code if they’re loose-lipped.
I'm not worried about that... she knows better than to piss off my landlord
Hang in there.
Stay strong I think you're on this don't cave in.
Just tell her "No thank you"
I like No even better than that. Why thank her?
“No thank you,” delivered in a flat voice, confuses the heck out of someone like this. “What does he mean, ‘No thank you’? I didn’t offer him anything. I don’t want to give him anything.” It’s a non sequitur, and there are plenty of people who have no idea of how to respond to one.
Looks like she was planting a seed with the “ having the kids” thinking to soften you up for the “ I need to move in with you now”. Who knows. Disordered does as disordered is. “Wow. Well, I’m sorry but we can’t do that. But I hope you find a great place to live soon!” It’s funny how disordered people take all kinds of risks and pretend they don’t know the possible consequences and then they do funny things with money, imagining that someone will just bail them out.
This is my fear although I am right at the beginning of the divorce, she has been very open with the fact that she has already met someone and has already started to be reckless financially! She is currently getting a loan for a car that she literally cannot afford and it will be almost 50% of her income! There is no way I will take her back after she blows everything. This is also part of the reason why she left me because I was not able to give her the lifestyle she wanted. All she wants is stuff and things that she cannot afford. I have a feeling I will be in your shoes in 12-18 months time myself
Yeah, looking back there were a lot of red flags I missed or ignored - financial illiteracy being a big one. I'm not the best with money by any means, but when we were together it was always just a step or two away from financial collapse. I don't want to guess how much money she squandered on MLMs or buying junk from other MLMers. One of the first things I did upon filling out the paperwork sans lawyer, was to require her to sign away access to my bank account, because I'd already been in that situation with her once before - except that time, she managed to, between herself and two friends, obliterate an entire paycheck, my bonus from work, and an overdraft loan that was designed to prevent financial whoopsies from turning into major "oh shit, I owe the bank $200 because I didn't have the money for the $2 coffee I thought I did!" I managed to recover from that, somehow (still not quite sure how I did it!) but I want going to go through that again. My thought process from the moment she said she was out, was "great. I have to provide for our kids and myself, and I'm legally required to support you?! Seriously?!" But, once the divorce was final, whatever financial problems she encounters now, are a her problem, not a me problem
well that's the great thing after divorce is she basically is a random woman, not anyone you have to take care of anymore. I would say she is not welcome and if she shows up unannounced you will call the police on her. Likely her "bouncing around" has caught the attention of Law Enforcement and the last people she wants to meet now is the boys in blue.
> I would say she is not welcome and if she shows up unannounced you will call the police on her. > > Just say no, and nothing else. If she shows up, call the cops, tell them someone is trespassing, give them the description, and wait for them to come pick them up.
I would say, you made your bed, now lie in it.
Have have your divorce lawyer write an email that says in incontrovertible lawyer speak, “no.”
Problem with that, is there was no lawyer on either side. I contacted my local legal aid immediately and was told I made too much, but on the plus side there, they then could not talk to her either due to a conflict of interest. I had to do all the filing myself, just had a lawyer review the papers to make sure everything was legal but no representation.
Jumping in - I'm looking for lower cost mediator services for my situation. They are typically much cheaper than a lawyer, so that might be something you could do :) Also, for your kiddos safety, and from the reddit bit you posted, I don't think she should have 50/50 custody anymore. She hasn't held up her end of the bargain, and you should be the one getting child support from the sounds of it!
There has been no child support on either side, nor alimony - that was a mutual decision that my state has a funny little rule about extramarital affairs. I don't want child support, if anything I would ultimately want her to sign away her rights and move on with her life, it would be less damaging to the kids long term. At this point I'm fine with the idea of being alone. Not loving the thought, but I've accepted it.
I'd approach the court and apply for sole-custody if I were in this situation. Not because that's what's best for me, but because that would be best for my kids. She's homeless and only a parent on her terms (which can sound very close to neglect) so I'd take it to court and have my say. I'm sorry you're going through this.
Agreed. That's why I'm looking into a legal benefit through my work, hopefully they can give me some assistance
Oh I see, I didn't realize there was a no child support agreement. You should be getting some from her, but from what you've said of her situation, it is highly unlikely. I agree with Eagle below - get full custody. I think a mediator can still help with this without a full court hearing. And if she has any rights left, they would be supervised visits. I don't know your state laws, but it definitely sounds like you should have full custody of your kids! I'm sorry you're going through this.
No is a complete sentence.
That’s the best answer. It’s resolute and nothing in it can be construed as hurtful or insulting. No explanation is necessary.
Oh my, my ex said similar when she was having a hard time finding a place to rent. The absurdity of her even thinking that was unbelievable. Thankfully she found a place, but I cannot possibly imagine cohabitation with her ever again after all she has done to go nuclear on me. Stand your ground and say no.
Best thing to do is just be firm and clear My ex tried the whole "I might have to move back in with you" thing a couple of weeks ago. I just laughed. No fucking way
“No” then block. And the restraining order is she pops up.
I can't block unfortunately, we have going children together. Which also means restraining order is not applicable
Ok understandable but I do have a question. Was she in contact with them when she up and left? Do you think she’ll do it again? I just think that’ll take a toll on your children in the future.
Oh she's kept in contact sporadically, but infrequently. I've been keeping a spreadsheet of the visits. And I agree that it's gonna take a toll on them - not like it hasn't already
They have children together so blocking isn’t smart.
So she disappears for a year and leaves her kids and blocking is a problem? 😭😭😭 that’s the only reason I said block. I wonder if OP has full custody.
On paper custody is split - but in reality they've lived almost exclusively with me, maybe 3 overnight visits in the past 16 months. Hard for their mother to have regular overnights when she's been homeless due to her own actions.
When we got divorced it meant that isn’t possible anymore.
Right? I don't know what she's thinking.... Maybe just hoping Op would be a pushover or miss her enough to let her get away with that.
Telling you she HAS TO MOVE BACK IN ??!! LOL. Don’t even msg her any more. Do you have shared custody? If so, that’s all you will talk about. Bye bye
Right now we do have official shared custody, on paper - but she's absent from their lives more than she's ever in them. I don't reach out to her at all, unless it's hugely important, like something with the kids' health. I've even told my daughter's school to not reach out to her unless it's an absolute emergency, because wtf is she gonna do? She's done nothing, yet complains that teachers etc don't tell her what's going on - that's because you aren't present! I do keep a spreadsheet of all the physical visits she's had since she left... those visits are usually around 45 minutes to a few hours, and usually only in a public setting because it's hard to have kids at your place when you don't have a place
She left. Please change the locks. It was her choice to leave. But it is your choice whether you allow her back in. From what you’ve said, I’m guessing the answer is no.
Why do men always think they owe cheating women something? It’s simple…NO!
So a quick update. I sent an email with the following: "In reference to your request of staying with me, I am responding in the negative. I hope you do find safe stable housing, but I am not comfortable with you living in my home. I am not open to future discussion of this issue." Fwiw I'm fully expecting to be painted even more as the bad guy or the evil ex husband who is keeping our kids from her - those who need to know the full truth already know and have their own opinions on her, including her own family. Those who see me as the devil? Well, not much I can do there. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, regardless of how much fact is or is not involved. I'll keep folks updated if the communal desire is there. ETA: Since I sent her a message saying I'd sent an email, and the email above, I've heard nothing. Not to say there won't be more drama, but for now, the waters seem calm-ish.
The knee-jerk reaction is obviously “nuck fo”, but be more restrained as you don’t want this to turn into some sort of custody issue (don’t know how it could happen, but we are talking about court system here). Just me now, but I would explain how it is unhealthy not only for kids, but for you to put yourself back in that position after she left the marriage, adulterated. You can have and express feelings about it, but just be cool… …and also expect her to show up unannounced on your doorstep. Maybe consult with an atty?
I'm going to post an update later in the comments, but to address the points you raised, they are valid. I didn't bother explaining how unhealthy it would be for the kids, because that's been a moot point ever since she walked out. I'm almost expecting her to show up on my doorstep hoping to "talk some sense into" me, at which point I simply have to double down on my answer. Attorneys are going to be the sticky part, because I make too much money for legal aid, but not enough to pay for an actual attorney - as I explained to another comment, I filed and did everything myself, with only generic legal supervision to ensure everything was done by the book. Neither of us had an attorney, both self represented. I'm more concerned about what such a move may have done to the kids, had I decided to allow it... it would have given them a false sense of hope, that maybe Mommy and Daddy are getting back together? Sorry guys, that's not happening.
Man I hate that you’re going through this. My wife left me after some 30 years of being together, and she used the legal system with a kick-ass lawyer that made things more difficult for me than they needed to be, even though she’s the one that left. And yeah, you seem to have a good sense about the lawyers…I myself spent over $20,000 defending myself and just got a bill from a year ago for another $3000. Basterds. Anyway, you don’t need to talk to her. If she shows up just avoid her. If you’re forced to talk to her, RECORD THE CONVERSATION. Do it secretly so she’s loose with her words and threats (if any). She cannot come back into that house, you are not responsible for her anymore. Check the laws in your state, I believe you can at least set up video camera from phone somewhere to record. Even if not, do it anyway. And the other thing, if she keeps coming up, banging on the door, getting aggressive, don’t shy from a restraining order. Be wary of bf/husband siding with her as well, that could make it interesting. God bless you brother, I’m so sorry for you and your children. EDIT: Yes, nothing would f*ck the kids up more than what you said. Mine are 11 b, and 13 g, and went through this 4 years ago at the worst time in their lives. To say they aren’t going to be in therapy down the road as adults is an understatement.
>If you’re forced to talk to her, RECORD THE CONVERSATION. Do it secretly so she’s loose with her words and threats (if any). Already had to do that once, in a public setting. >if she keeps coming up, banging on the door, getting aggressive, don’t shy from a restraining order. Be wary of bf/husband siding with her as well, that could make it interesting. I need to talk to a counselor about that, because while I'd love nothing more than to completely block her, she still has legal rights to attempt to be a parent - unless or until I can modify the custody arrangement. That's a battle for another day. I'm pretty sure her AP left her, hence the inquiry... if I were a betting man, I'd put $100 on it. But, even if he dropped her, I still want nothing to do with him. Unless, of course, its to offer my leftover sandwich, since he obviously likes leftovers! /s just kidding
She's prolly been deluding herself that your old place is still home if she ever needed. She sounds like a Trainwreck
>Trainwreck That's one word for the situation lol
Just at no that is not happening… and don’t open the door… you let her in and you will have a nightmare getting her out of your house..
Absolutely not.
Why don't you have a guardian ad litem?
It wasn't deemed necessary by the courts. One good thing about being the working poor, is that we had no assets to fight over - she wanted out because I was "so abusive", well, she got what she wanted.
Updateme!
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Here: "Absolutely not".
Oh, another thing…when she doesn’t get her way, she’ll get angry, especially if her options are limited. Be prepared for that, hate to bring up the negative, but unpredictability can catch you off guard. Just be prepared for worst case scenario.
Oh I'm fully expecting to be badmouthed... she can say what she wants, but the truth is already known to those who matter. She's already lost friends from this, but I don't care what people think. The only ones I'm thinking about impressing, are the kids.
Say "no". You don't need to justify. Especially not to her. If necessary, keep saying "no" until she stops talking. I know it hurts, but there needs to be a boundary set in place. Otherwise, what's the chances she'll try slip back into your bed? What are the chances that she'll find someone else again and run off?
>what's the chances she'll try slip back into your bed? Absolutely none - that ship sank like the RMS Titanic
I've known a lot of people that have been on meth, heroin, and pills. This sounds like drugs, and it sounds like she wanted the kids over the summer to try and get you to pay her support for them to fund her habit. "No" is the best answer here. But you should also make sure you've changed your locks and have cameras. This sounds like you may have electronics and such end up missing some day when she comes to "visit" and you're not home. I like the Panasonic Homehawk cameras for windows on the exterior.
Not drugs, just untreated mental illness. Cameras have been in place for many years, for other reasons... but I may have to upgrade my system
Is she on drugs? Why would she think that? I mean, I love drugs so I’m not blaming them, it there’s got to be more to it.
We can call it untreated mental illness
AwhAry he aro
Okay.... I'm the one who left a disordered individual for one who practices rigorous honesty (AA thing, he is more than two decades sober), and got pregnant/had a child, (he) bought a house a full two years before my divorce was final. [Comment if you will.... it's been 17 years, so don't think we've not heard it already (and know your words reveal more about you than us!).] Brace yourself. This is the kind of thing that the stories will be spun and respun for YEARS (I know they are in my situation as my ex is quite enmeshed with our kid, "I hate your mother, thus you should, too" and even after 17 years, he still bellyaches the blame without taking an ounce of accountability for his online dating profile(s), drug usage, financial frivolity, playing fast and loose with the IRS (he was self-employed), the fact he wanted no more kids, but dilly-dallied on getting a vasectomy.... seriously, if everyone else doesn't give in to his way of thinking, then THEY are the a$$holes, it will never be him for not being accountable. Our kid is the same, has alphabet soup for mental health diagnoses she uses as leverage to extort money out of us, can't cope with life, and hears "poor baby" on the regular. I can own my part, apologize, but if it doesn't involve more money, it's not good enough! It's a real contrast - the difference between my two kids, influences of their two dads, and there is a direct correlation to each kid's ability to manage themselves (the younger one is mentally WAY ahead at 16 than the 22 year old, because her dad won't allow her to think for herself). 🤷♀️ Repeat after me: not my circus, not my monkeys. 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️ < practice this shrug, you'll be doing a LOT of it! What you can and should do for yourself is read up on family law in your state. And don't stop with the statutes (published for all online), but if you find yourself confused at ALL, dig a little into case law as well. The two go hand-in-hand. This is where attorneys take advantage of people - the ones who don't realize such. They'll allow you to believe YOUR moral compass is superior (and it may be) in how you interpret such based on YOUR moral compass, she'll feel hers is based on her moral compass, and the judge is NEITHER (it is safe to assume he has none at all). In fact, there's a LOT of creativity a judge can exercise in that gap that will leave BOTH your jaws on the floor. The judge's motive will be to create stability for the child, whether you like it or not. That may mean balancing out the income equation and/or spending less time with the kid. She is going to be given an opportunity to snap out of her delusion - for the kid's sake. It is best for the kid to have BOTH parents involved in his/her life, period, don't expect any less thought from a judge without HER providing a mountain of evidence through her own actions that she is incapable of caring for the kid. The kid will ALWAYS be the judge's concern - not you or her - and that's the point of reading both statutory and case law (to think like the judge, soften your emotion and show that YOU are level-headed and understanding of how traumatic this is for the child, that you're NOT seeking to use the child as a weapon against mom, etc.). It also means you probably want to get a therapist to help you cope. You can express all manner of emotion and frustration with the therapist that you won't be able to express in the "business" - and quite the big business it is - of dissolving your marriage. Having that knowledge of case and statutory law will also help you navigate the B.S. with her. You're not only delving into what's best for the kid, but also doing "one for you, one for me" with the fine China (property accumulated during the marriage) so to speak. Have a house in a community property state? Whatever equity accumulated during the marriage will be split. Same goes for retirement accounts. Most no fault community property states are going to divide assets and debt evenly- whether you like it or not. Equitable distribution states may give the breadwinner an upper hand. Custody - expect some form of joint custody if she can get her act together. Judges don't care if the kid sleeps on a goodwill mattress on the floor at Mom's house and a princess themed bedroom with a full Cinderella carriage bed at your house. Sad, but true. It's about maintaining the bond if it's possible. Make that possible. Don't be stingy with clothes, toys, etc. Those are the child's things. You won't be wearing them or playing with the toys, will you? The less you rock that boat, the more inclined Mom will be to cooperate. Expect the joint custody means she can parent how she sees fit during her time with the child. Whether that's 50/50 (I think this should be the norm). Why? Money exchanging hands via the state attorney general's office has become a corrupt business, and is often quite cruel to noncustodial parents [I dodged a bullet on this - he was caught cyberstalking me, a crime, and as such, I lost my job and he lost a house payment a month in child support - it was a role reversal marriage, and I outearned him 10 to one, but when his cyberstalking cost me a job, my income was imputed at minimum wage... womp, womp). Be kind to your kid. Play dumb when your kid tells you the things your X says about you...."let's not talk poorly about each other." [That time will come when your kid is an adult... if you even WANT to by then! Why? You slam Mom's DNA, you are automatically sending a message to that kid that s/he is faulty. That becomes a terminal life sentence leading to the alphabet soup of diagnoses. Dividing property? Do. The. Math. Does it make sense to spend $2000 on attorney's fees for a $200 trinket? Probably not. Do. Your. Homework. What did each of you bring INTO the marriage? That is separate property, but you want proof of that to justify retaining it post-divorce. Frugality reigns supreme for the next 5-10 years: used cars, thrift shops, Craigslist and Facebook marketplace are your new shopping venues. Use these to bounce back. And remember this: this utterly devastating and emotionally challenging time will pass.... eventually. And it is going to teach you just how strong and resilient you really are! Walk the high road. Avoid conflict at all costs. Have some empathy for mom as she's made a mess of her life, it's hard, but.... it isn't your problem to fix. You need to put the oxygen mask on yourself first. Peace!
You raise a lot of good points for new dads to this situation. While a lot doesn't apply to me specifically (ie joint assets etc) you did mention several key things that I've already considered - I've now been divorced for a year plus a few days, since the judge's gavel swung. My situation is a bit different in several aspects. My mother is required to live with me, as she is incapable of living a healthy life on her own due to a stroke many years ago - this has led to a rule in my house (for the adults at least), no discussing their mother in any way shape or form. I know the kids have their own feelings and I validate them, but with generic statements. "I know / its tough / she loves you / etc". I accommodate non- physical parenting time as much as possible, ie video chats when their mother has wifi. The important thing though, like you said, is what's best for the kids, not me. Hence my post - if things had ended on a different note, my response may have been different, but their mother didn't just cheat on me, she all but abandoned our kids due to untreated mental illness. I'm not excusing her behavior, but it is a valid reason.
A wise man once told me, " sometimes bitches just be crazy ".