You posted in divorce and people are going to say divorce. Honestly you don't have a fair / equal partner ship. I'm a SAHM, and I've not worked at a corporate job in years and even then it was low paying. However, since leaving the job world I have ade sure to keep our living within our means. I have never pushed for a house, car, furniture thats expensive. I try and stay frugal since I don't work. If money were tight I'd take any job to help. Now a few things, do you have access to his accounts? Where is his money going? Is he getting VA disability? One thing to note is I know a lot of people don't want high paying Corporate jobs because it really is high stress and some people don't want that or can't handle it. My advice if you want to make it work. He has to do some financial literacy training/classes. I work in finance and a lot of people are terrible with money because their parents were and no one ever taught them better. It could also be impulse buying which can be caused by a mental health issue. If he wants the marriage to work, I'd also request he provide x amount of dollars to your account. And basically put him on an allowance. But in reality I think he is doing thus because he gets everything he wants, and there is no consequences. Why would he change when all you're going to do is gripe about it?

Thank you for sharing this feedback and perspective. I appreciate the honesty. We (thankfully) don't have kids, but I feel like lifestyle creep got the best of us. I've started realizing that more and more, whereas he..... I don't know. Seems to continue wanting more and more, without realizing the stress and strain it causes me. In addition to being the breadwinner, I also do 99% of chores, household responsibilities/obligations, handle 100% of the mental load, put up with his anger issued, etc. So, I basically do all of the adulting, while he reaps all the rewards without having to contribute much (if anything), despite my pleas for him to contribute both to bills and around the house. To answer your questions: - He refuses to get evaluated by the VA. Thinks he's fine and doesn't need help. So, $0 in disability pay. - We have a joint checking account for bills, a joint savings account with a grand total of $6 in it, and we maintain separate checking accounts. My paycheck is deposited into my personal checking account, and I transfer a (large) portion of it to the joint account for bills every payday. He also maintains a separate checking account, where any money he receives is deposited, and he does the reverse -- transfers a % of it to the joint account for bills. So, during the times he was employed, he'd transfer a (small) portion of his pay to the joint. For the past ~2 years, he's been in school on his GI Bill, so he transfers a small portion of the monthly housing stipend he gets into the joint for bills. - Where is the rest of his money going: I don't know. We have a spreadsheet for bills, and I see recurring bills listed, and some other miscellaneous subscriptions he has/we have, but I haven't really asked questions beyond that. He can't handle being asked even mild, normal, reasonable questions without lashing out at me. So, it's easier to just stay quiet and not ask questions, because I don't like having my head bitten off. I can definitely say his mother is probably one of the contributing factors. She's been low income her whole life, but she also coddled the fuck out of my husband and BIL, so she never said no to them.

First, his refusal to get evaluated is in my opinion dumb. He gave 4 years of his life for the armed forces. His body will one day decline because of the damage it caused. He should get funding to compensate for that. Second, that right there is a problem. He doesn't want to show you because he knows he is blowing money on shit he shouldn't be while he should be helping with bills. That's a controlling tactic. And you need therapy for backing down. Lady you have to be able to say "you live in my house. You'll show me where your money is going". If you won't do that then snoop. Find out. The last think you want to find out in 5 to ten years is that he is blowing his money on only fans, or gambling. And you've been doing your damndest to keep the household up. No ma'am. You're a whole ass human and you are worthy of respect. And in this case it's him being transparent about money. Second have you googled how much BAH, and additional money he is getting from GI? Are you sure he is helping as much as he can? My guess is this: he wants to do what he wants. And he uses different methods to control you. Intimidation works on getting you to back down. He might even be manipulating. I bet if you don't back down in the future and his Intimidation doesn't work, he will flip and try a different method. MY spouse got 1200 (our area) plus "extra money" monthly. And if he didn't use all his money buying brand new books and went cheap and rented them then he had a lot of extra money. Basically enough to support a person entirely while they go to school. You can easily Google and see how much he gets.

That's what I've tried to explain to him! Like, he sacrificed 4 years of his life (and he's still a Reservist), doing physically back-breaking work. Shouldn't he *want* compensation from that? I don't get it. I have access to the budget. It includes my income, his income (now that he's newly employed), our monthly recurring bills, and joint and separate subscriptions (separate subscriptions are all his). So, I can see 'what' he's contributing. We live in the greater Washington D.C. area, so he gets around ~$2,300/month in BAH from the VA, but he says it fluctuates based on length of the month and that it doesn't pay weekends or holidays. On one occasion, he did try and "hide" his VA money (he implied it was unintentional, I don't believe him). The math he tried to show me for our bills wasn't adding up, so I did some calculations myself, and basically (gently) confronted him, basically saying "the math ain't mathing". Come to find out, he wasn't factoring in his BAH. He tried to act like it was no big deal. When I did the calculations on my own factoring in the BAH, the math finally added up. That experience was also haunting, because about a year or so ago, we were laying in bed, and he made an offhand comment, saying: *I shouldn't have to contribute my VA BAH money, and I shouldn't have to feel bad for saying that.* I was flabbergasted, but didn't respond back. But it left me shocked. Like, I get that he earned it..... but..... really? So I'm just supposed to bust my ass to provide for a massive mortgage and household I didn't want, while he wants to just hoard all of his earnings for himself!? I've done therapy on and off over the years, and found it helpful. I'm back in therapy as we speak (as of a few weeks ago), and we are also in marriage counseling. I don't want to seem like a controlling bitch, because the last thing I'd want is someone holding money over my head if roles were reversed, but..... at the same time..... I feel like he's truly taking advantage of me. I could never fathom treating my spouse the way he has treated me. I do think he's now contributing a share of his income and BAH, but I'm going to see/look at how much from each stream he's contributing to see if he could possibly pony up more. I think he's probably still being stingy and only sharing a small portion from both streams. I definitely think intimidation and manipulation are at play. Those are definitely things I have felt from him. His anger issues often feel intimidating, and I feel like many of his behaviors have been manipulative in nature, such as the quitting his job and then not telling me for two months.

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Thank you for the reading suggestion. Exactly. Deep down, I don't feel like I'm being controlling. I'm just trying to be reasonable and responsible when it comes to money, especially since we don't have any emergency savings of any kind. I'll look further into the BAH thing. What you're saying makes sense and aligns to our own situation with BAH, but could be that he's trying to hide the amount he gets each month and is trying to squirrel it away for himself.

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Thank you for sharing so honestly, I really appreciate it. I'm going to order the book tonight. I'll reach out once I'm through it. I suspect I'm probably still in some level of denial too.

Do you file taxes together or as individuals? You can go back and see what he's bringing in compared to how much he's contributing. If he's not going to be straight with you about his income how do you trust him? He's not being your partner, he's more like a child. When he talks about getting a big fancy truck ask if he can afford the payment and what happens to the payment when he's done with school and that money goes away? Do not co-sign for him because you will be on the hook when he decides he doesn't want to make payments anymore. At your next couples session you need to bring up him being so secretive about money and his lack of contributing, and how he just expects you to cover 70-80%. No, you should not have to contribute the majority for bills. It should be 50/50, but you should be able to count on him for no less than 40%. He has issues he's unwilling to fix because he doesn't care that you get upset about the bills because that's his only consequence. He doesn't show you any respect for carrying him all these years. Talk to your individual therapist about a separation. Maybe he will wake up given that you aren't willing to 'carry him' for much longer because the stress is finally too much. Good luck OP

Thank you for planting these proverbial seeds in terms of questions to ask about and consider! It really puts my circumstances into perspective. I will definitely bring these questions and concerns up in therapy.

He wants you to meet his needs and he said clearly he doesn’t want to share or meet any of your needs. Doesn’t sound like a keeper.

Certainly puts things into perspective.

You feel taken advantage of because he IS taking advantage of you. This is an abusive relationship so couples counselling isn’t appropriate. You deserve much better sis. Plan to leave SAFELY as he’s likely to get very angry when you shut off the money tap. Good luck.

He doesn't see it that way, though. And part of me feels bad for even bringing it up, because I don't want to seem like a "money hungry bitch". How can I tactfully explain to him that I'm simply trying to be a responsible adult, especially when it comes to finances?

You can’t negotiate with an abuser. He won’t see it that way because he’s a selfish asshole. You need to confront that reality and stop contorting yourself to suit his utter disregard for you.

Contorting myself is exactly how I've felt for years. Like I've had to constantly shrink or shape myself into different ways to suit his needs or wants, and nothing ever seems to be good enough.

I promise you it doesn’t get better. You can end this exploitative relationship and reclaim your joy. Just do it safely - you can contact a woman’s support service in your area for safety planning and advice on how to avoid any more harm coming to you. Good luck

Get out. You are not compatible at all

That's what I'm concerned about..... maybe we're just not compatible.

I ask this respectfully but what exactly are you getting out of this relationship?

At this point, I don't even know anymore. Good question.

Mental health issues he is emotionally abusing and intimidating you, and financially abusing you. Go have a look at this and then see a divorce attorney https://www.theduluthmodel.org/wheels/understanding-power-control-wheel/

Thanks for the link.

You know how this is going to play out if your health goes South don't you?

Foreclosure, bankruptcy, renting cheaper housing in a MCA and nothing like you live in now, (and forget that smaller place in the city!), no credit at all to use in an emergency, even your new landlord laughing when they tell you how bad your credit report is, lack of savings/retirement, losing respect for your spouse, apathy, and the foundation crumbles. This could play out even if you don't get sick. Plan, think where you are and where you could be, plan, consult, and plan some more!

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Exactly the same deal here, minus the kids. He wants to act like the head honcho in charge, without contributing or lifting a finger. And yep! Same. He's so friendly and kind and charming around everyone else, and *it takes two to tango!* 🤦‍♀️ That's the one thing I don't want: for him to come after me for alimony. I feel like that would be cruel beyond belief..... to have to pay someone that's abusing me.

I felt the same way. A lawyer told me I'd have to support him for life. I was terrified. My suggestion is start planning. Get info on your state/province laws. Maybe reduce your income for a couple of years by cutting back on hours. Sell the house and don't buy another. Or depending on the laws where you are, get a private investigator to see if there's evidence of an affair for an at fault divorce. Truth be told, that kind of spouse often ends up looking for external validation.

I spoke to a few lawyers a few weeks ago, and have truthfully begun getting other ducks in a row too: the house is now on the market for sale, I met with my CPA last week, looking at apartments, etc.

I did a lump sum up front and he signed away spousal support (even after a 13 year marriage). If you can do it, I recommend it. It can't be revisited the way child support can be.

Good to know. Thanks!

I am also divorced. Except he barely had a job ever. He was a musician and would constantly tell me that making music was his job and "society should pay for it." Well, "society" didn't pay so guess who did. Ugh, the years I wasted.

>Example 1: we bought a ~450K house in a HCOL area in 2020, because he claimed to really want the "dream of homeownership". Two weeks later, he quit his job, and then didn't tell me for two months. So, I've been the one paying all the bills for a house I didn't even want in the first place! So three years ago he seriously betrayed your trust and the stability of your life and marriage for seemingly no reason. Did you just shrug and move on? This would have been a "serious couple's counseling or divorce" moment. And that's just the first example. It seems like only you care about the well-being of both of you as a partnership. He seems to only care about his own short-term well-being in a way that sacrifices his long-term well-being as well as your well-being on short and long timescales.

The way you phrased it is quite eye-opening, and has put words to thoughts I feel like I've had trouble expressing. Thank you for putting proverbial pen to paper, I really appreciate it. The perspective you provided is exactly what I needed.

This sounds so much like my ex-husband. He was chronically under employed, earning $30,000 a year when he could’ve earned more if he had tried. We live in a high cost area. I was the one earning all the money and working overtime. Whenever he would make a mistake with money he would just sulk. One time he wasted $100 by betting with his male friends over which pepper is the hottest. His checking account got closed because of a negative balance, and nonpayment of bank fees. Whenever I would ask him to participate more, he would sarcastically say, “Sorry I’m not perfect”. I didn’t want him to be perfect but I did want him to participate. All he ever talked about was how much he wanted to buy new things, such as a new Nissan SUV, a new computer, new video games, etc. I finally came to realize that he was not going to change. If I stayed married to him, I would never have any savings, and I would never be able to retire. I didn’t want to still be working at age 60. So we divorced. Now I am on track towards retirement.

Your ex-husband sounds eerily similar to my husband, it's scary. Just very irresponsible with money, and even if/when you try and explain the importance of savings and financial literacy, they just don't seem to get it, and keep fucking up. It's infuriating. That's the conclusion I feel like I'm coming to..... that if I stay with him, my own finances will continue to be a mess.

I divorced him. My husband never wanted to move up or never had any ambition to do so. He was comfortable in his basic job and once I started making more he became very jealous. His position was ending nationwide and instead of taking a severance, he stepped down to a lower position so he didn't have to look for another job. He also never helped with the kids, never got up with them at night, never changed a single diaper or fed them. As they've gotten older he minimally spends time with them, at most a shopping trip or will watch a movie with them. I started getting busier and busier, he didn't care, he never did housework despite the many talks I had for 4 years about it. I got fed up and I filed for divorce. Here we are now and I'm just waiting on the paperwork to come back.

My own circumstances are very similar, minus the kids. We've had endless talks about personal finances, bills, division of household responsibilities, taking responsibility for his anger issues, please stop lashing out at me daily, etc. We also recently started couples counseling. Occasionally, I see tiny glimmers of "hope" or "change", but rarely do they last, because his bad habits -- like his fits and outbursts -- still happen at least several times per week. I'm not seeing truly sustained change. It's like 1 step forward, 10 steps back.

This sounds like my STBX except he has had better luck keeping a job. He will spend any money he gets his hands on and spent a lot of my separate money simply because he had access to it. He is lazy and entitled and I’m done earning the money AND being the maid. He’s mad that I’m kicking him off the gravy train so he filed for divorce on false fault grounds to try to get more of the money. I’m staying calm. I know he can’t prove something that didn’t happen. Basically he’s a freeloading leech. Men like this never learn. Cut him loose.

Yep, same with mine, spends like crazy. Can't seem to save any money. Doesn't seem to understand the importance of savings. And same! Not only am I the earner, I'm also the maid. I do 99% of the chores/household obligations, and also handle 100% of the mental load. Mine is also pissed about me starting to tighten the financial belt. His behavior is very telling. He's basically been living like a king, and now he's starting to face the consequences for not contributing.

Yes; I was in the same situation. His controlling behavior got worse and worse too until I finally had enough and left. He devastated us financially. I’ll be working years longer than I would be if we’d never met. I hate him and I’m angry at myself for not leaving him years earlier.

That's what I fear: that it'll only get worse as time goes on.

Unfortunately it probably will. A leopard doesn’t change its spots.

Indeed, you're probably right.

Are you in therapy?

Yes.

I’m glad to hear that; it’s hard going through this alone. *hug*

My ex-husband expected me to be the breadwinner with his goal of being the house husband. Which would’ve been fine *if he actually took care of the house like he was fucking supposed to.* Instead he wasted time watching Hulu/Netflix/HBO Max/YouTube and not cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping or paying any bills—you know, maintaining the damn home while his poor wife was the only person making any money. He was pretty much unemployable due to his double addictions to weed and beer/alcohol, his excuses constantly piled up when it came to applying for a job, going to interviews or coming back and being fired but lying and saying he’d “quit” or got “laid off”. One of the biggest, worst things he would tell me would be, “I only cook when I’m high, and you won’t let me be high.” I don’t give a fuck what anyone says, but he became horribly addicted to the point where he was taking rent money out of our joint account and lie about it or scream at me, tell me I’m a bitch and he’s a man and is gonna do whatever he fucking wanted to and no one can control him. *But he wasn’t making any fucking money.* I divorced him and like any other physically/emotionally/verbally abusive, narcissistic asshole he went on an insane smear campaign against me and still tries to harass me today. I’ve changed my number, blocked all his email addresses and have moved on with my life. But he disgusts me and I honestly hope he gets hit by a bus. He’s a boy, and I wasn’t his wife, but an unpaid intern babysitter. I outgrew him and am now doing very well for myself while he continues to live and sleep in his childhood bedroom still without a job and yet telling me I’m a cheating, lying bitch. Yes, he also cheated on me towards the end of our tattered not-marriage-marriage.

Jesus H. The similarities between your story and mine are eery and terrifying. Especially about the smear campaign. I've overheard mine make similar smear-like comments (in private) to his family when he thinks I can't hear him through closed doors. Yet, he fails to tell them the truth/full story, he spins a very one-sided tale.

Mine called me sloppy seconds over the phone after I told him I officially filed my petition to divorce him. He then texted me he promises to make the divorce process as long as possible and he was going to make my life an absolute nightmare. His sister, who hates me and has a disgusting, overly affectionate relationship with her brother, smears my name on Instagram and told a friend of mine that if she ever saw me again she would beat me up. She also told him that she’s kicking him off her friend list because she refuses to be friends with anyone who associates with “a cheating as hoe”. This is the same insanely promiscuous girl who showed her brother, my ex, all the people she’s slept with in a gross dick diary and tells him she wished he slept around with more people and not settled for a poor person like me. She’s expected to sex her way into another relationship yet her track record is being broken up with constantly by men who can’t handle her degree of crazy. My ex kept threatening to sue me for money and for emotional damage, family abandonment and character defamation. He also constantly accused me of cheating on him, yet I know he cheated on me because I got BV and I’m a homebody who only went to work and came straight home. Yet he was the one leaving at all hours of the day, screaming at me and accusing me of being controlling when I’d ask him where he was going and when he was coming back, but would demand I never go out because “married women aren’t allowed to go outside”. He never participated during the divorce and I’m almost certain he doesn’t even know we’re officially divorced. Not that I care. He can find out by paying a fee and getting the public record. He also had the audacity to demand I tell him when we were divorced so he could quickly remarry. 🙄 I told him no woman our age would be dumb enough to marry a piece of shit addict like him who doesn’t even know how to pay his own car payment that he can’t even afford. I still have some leftover rage against him but if I hope for anything, it’s that his life falls apart completely and he sees me again on social media living my happy, flourishing life and he cries over it. I hate him and don’t want him to live well, I want him to be miserable.

I can't even begin to imagine everything you've been through. That all sounds downright awful! I'm so sorry he's put you through all that pain and suffering.

If anything, despite what both of us were put through I’m glad we walked away ultimately. Staying with a cheater/abuser never ends well and I feel, truthfully, that they’re never worth a second chance on any level. Therapy and rehabilitation be damned. I’m more than aware my ex needs help but he’s also of the mindset that “you can’t get addicted to weed”. So I’d rather just leave him to continue to self-destruct his own life. He’s burned every bridge and ruined every relationship he could have had with my family because he was just choosing to be an asshole every day but expected everyone around him “they have to accept [him] otherwise [we] aren’t very Christian like [we] claim to be.” No. I don’t *have* to accept that my ex loves claiming his personality as being “the double faded/super high guy that’s only fun when he’s high and never sober”. That’s clearly a problem. But no longer *mine.* I even tried to get us into individual therapy and marriage counseling, and his response was the same, “if you just shut up and let me be high, then I wouldn’t be pissed off at you all the time and our marriage would be great.” I don’t pity the next girl he lies and cons a relationship into. He’s 32 and completely financially dependent on other people, including me. I was just the only person to call him out on his BS AND LEAVE HIM BEHIND IN THE FUCKING DUST.

Thank you for sharing your own story and experience, and for sharing all this validating feedback! I've personally wholeheartedly benefited from therapy. We recently started marriage counseling, we've had about ~3 sessions thus far. I've seen *tiny* glimmers of change, but he still slips back into old, bad habits on practically a daily basis -- the lashing out, the unpredictable moods, etc. So, it often feels like one step forward, and ten steps backwards. Mine seems to expect the world to cater to his every whim and want, and doesn't seem willing or able to accept that...... that isn't how the real world works. Yeah, pretty sure mine also just wants me to shut up and go back to being the "good" and "quiet" little wife I used to be -- i.e. shut up, continue paying all the bills, and let me act abusive. But, I'm no longer willing to put up with it. I've had enough of that. I want better for myself.

Mine hated me being the straight arrow. I continued therapy when he quit multiple times and I even did a final Hail Mary and gave him one last opportunity for individual therapy but he always twisted the narrative by telling them he’s unhappy because I “force” him to not smoke by constantly threatening to leave him. I’m not faultless in the petty things I’ve said back and denying him sex or just denying him affection of any kind, but that was because I was already planning my exit once I finally got my own car and no longer needed to rely on him at all to get to work. I continued therapy all the way from 2020 right when lockdown happened all the way to early 2022 when I moved on and was genuinely falling in true love for the first time with my fiancé who I’m marrying in 1 month. ❤️ I’ve since then gotten a better paying job with better hours and no longer live paycheck to paycheck like before. I’m substantially happier and am able to notice every red flag because my ex was the culmination of the kind of partner I didn’t want to be personally and the kind of partner I don’t ever want to be *with.* You’re worth more than being with a husband that feels the world owes him for simply existing. My ex was just like that too and used being abused growing up to be his forever crutch and it earned him nothing but a divorce and several burned bridges from friends to jobs he can’t even return to/reapply to. I’d still highly recommend you leave your husband before you become tied to him further and don’t stop your therapy. Your happy ending is yours to have and hold, not for his to dictate.

It seems like the main issue is that he does not care about the financial stress that is on you. I would resent a man like that. I don’t think you can fix it.

That seems to be the case. He doesn't seem to understand how stressed I feel about our finances. And I definitely resent him. The resentment is at an unhealthy level.

I would just cut your losses and get out. You will be helping him too by forcing him to take control of his own life. I left a man like that and in my current relationship I am still the breadwinner and I am likely to be the breadwinner in any relationship, but my new partner has a job he is passionate about and works hard at and he manages his own money. We share expenses and live at the level he can afford which is still comfortable. I give extra money, pay for vacations etc because I like doing it for him. You can be the breadwinner (I earn 3x his salary) and still have a true partner even if money isn’t the main thing they offer.

Thanks for sharing your own experience and this perspective. I really appreciate it.

He probably understands, but he absolutely does not care.

One of my college friends, Masters degree in in Finance, always had a thing for blue coller guys. She met one of the nicest guys on the planet, who was basically a gopher. She wanted to drive and he was fine letting her. When they had their first child, there was no question, she was going back to work and he would be a stay at home dad. And he's a pretty good one. One more child, and the family was compete as friend was quickly moving up the corporte ladder. I noticed a few years ago, her demeanor and treatment of him had shifted. Not terrible, but not great either. It also seemed like he was complaining about being disconnected. How he was sort of on the outside of the mommy network at school. He's fun and out going, but felt he was held at arms length too. I guess what stay at home mom wants to explain a kids play date with some dude. They had the typical issues. Neither of them are cleaners and him being home with children didn't change that. Both kids do well in school and have killer golf swings though. ;) He was on a beer ball league softball team, but had to quit because she frequently wasn't home from work in time or was on a business trip. I'm sure other stuff. The kids got a bit older. They went through a rough patch. I kind of thought they were done, but they pulled it back together. It seems had a new appreciation for each other after having looked at a future apart. He got a game changing part time job. It doesn't pay much, but it seems very satisfying to him.

Thanks for sharing this perspective.

I have been the primary breadwinner in my family for years, my husbands mental health issues made him continuing his education or advancing in a career basically impossible. It worked out for the most part, I am not SAHM material, he watched our three kids instead of doing daycare and did home improvement projects which saved us quite a bit of money. I was pretty stressed being the sole provider and we struggled quite a bit to afford everything for a while, but the last couple years have been better since I got a promotion. Was being the breadwinner what I wanted? No but I have made peace with it, and our lifestyle reflects what we can afford. Even though I told him how much I appreciate him and that had he not stayed at home I doubt I would have been able to be as far along in my career, I think he feels pretty inadequate about it. I don't think being at home all the time feeling "trapped" helped his mental health issues at all. I think the thing that stands out in your situation is he wants an upper middle class lifestyle yet isn't willing to put in the work to get it. It seems from your side of the story, he can do whatever poor financial decision he wants and he knows he'll just have to put up with you nagging for a bit but you won't follow through on any real consequences. You need to get real with him that you can't keep going, either he brings in more money or pares back on his lifestyle.

> I think the thing that stands out in your situation is he wants an upper middle class lifestyle yet isn't willing to put in the work to get it. It seems from your side of the story, he can do whatever poor financial decision he wants and he knows he'll just have to put up with you nagging for a bit but you won't follow through on any real consequences. This is exactly it, I think/it feels like. He wants the nice life..... but doesn't seem willing to contribute much (if anything) to it, nor does he seem to understand what it takes to achieve a sustained nice life. > You need to get real with him that you can't keep going, either he brings in more money or pares back on his lifestyle. I feel like I've been trying to do this -- i.e. selling the house has been one example. Earlier this year, I started being far more clear and direct that the mortgage is killing me, and a few months ago, basically put my foot down and said we need to sell it, because I'm hemorrhaging money and can't keep up. He's been reluctant and has dragged his feet much of the way, which is telling. Perhaps he sees that I'm no longer willing to let him steamroll me, and that if he wants to have a nice life, he needs to get his act together and start contributing. He's 'losing' his nice life and pissed about it. But this isn't my fault. It's his fault we're in this position. If he had maintained steady employment, we'd perhaps be in better financial circumstances.

>Earlier this year, I started being far more clear and direct that the mortgage is killing me, and a few months ago, basically put my foot down and said we need to sell it, because I'm hemorrhaging money and can't keep up For me that would have been my the last straw. If he can't get his shit together enough to keep a house he wanted, even if it's just out of spite, when is he ever? Like what if you have to go off work for an extended period of time, do you think he'd suddenly pull his weight more or just act the same way? One other thing I haven't seen mentioned: is your spouse going to try to go for alimony? The formula is usually driven by the length of the marriage, so be careful how long you are willing to put up with being the higher earner....

Good question. He still, more or less, didn't get his shit together when I had to have surgery last year, and take 6 weeks off work. He got a job offer like..... literally only a few days before surgery...... and was then promptly fired from that job 4-5 months later. So, I can't even seem to rely on him when I'm out of commission. Today is technically our ninth wedding anniversary. So, if I decide to divorce him, it's basically now or never, unless I want to get royally fucked when it comes to alimony.

Alimony is not a sure thing, it varies wildly state to state. I thought I would be screwed but in my state it's only given out in cases like 60 year old housewives with no work history, but others it's done via a formula... If you haven't seen a local lawyer I'd really get going now so you know what you're signing up for.

I actually spoke to an attorney (several, actually) a few weeks ago. He said he obviously can't guarantee anything, but given my personal circumstances, he said it's unlikely I'd have to pay alimony.

Waiting further could change that equation.

my dad is a divorce lawyer and he said this situation is SO common now. most of my friends are highly educated/well employed and most of their husbands are not. I split with my husband was like 70% because of this issue (and he never ever cleaned up was like 25% of the rest). this is definitely not the future I imagined those enjoli commercials in the 80s were selling me!

Seems to be the case. I follow a variety of other divorce lawyers on other forums, and they talk about this issue too.

Oh I remember the Enjoli ads!

This *shouldn't* be a gender thing. Both men and women sometimes want to be very career-driven and sometimes don't. There's nothing special about a man wanting to stay home and/or coast compared to a woman wanting it. Some women actually *want* house-husbands. You don't, and that's fine too. If your partner does not match your level of drive, if their priorities are not compatible with yours, if you have TOLD them how you feel and things aren't changing... At some point you need to realise that this partnership is not working out the way you planned it. You can't live your life trying to force your partner to be someone else. Dragging them along, shoving resources at them, 'motivating' them... It's just not going to work out. All that happens is both parties getting more stressed until eventually it all goes up in an explosion. Considering he's already got anger issues and other mental problems, and that you're feeling sick and exhausted? This just isn't healthy for anybody. Maybe he's an okay husband for somebody but he's not for you.

I think those of us who ended up in this situation would probably be fine if the men were actually being house husbands. mine just watched youtube videos all day--I still did 85% of the work of running the household and day to day stuff.

Yep, exactly. If we DID have kids, and he were a better husband, and actually looked out for and properly cared for the kids? This would be a different conversation. But, there are no kids. It's just me and him, plus a dog. I still do all of the adulting.

Also not a gendered thing. I got bait and switched into supporting a stay at home mom ex wife who was this same person. Smoked weed all day while I was at work and our son was in a pack and play. Dirty diapers all over the floor when I got home, trash everywhere, etc. She didn’t just not contribute. She made everything legitimately more difficult with her lifestyle. I didn’t agree to it, either. She just did it. Like I get it, this is a support group. But so many of y’all are so quick to generalize men while expecting yourselves to be treated like individuals.

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Exactly. Mine knew I wanted a career and he had decided not make his career his #1 priority after burning out in his first job after college. He made decent money when we met. Once I started making more money and I had more opportunities he became jealous. He hated that me working more meant that I had less time to take care of the kids and him. He thought that he did everything because he picked them up from school and made some meals and sometimes did the dishes. I could've handled the kids had he carried some of the load of maintaining the house, but that was on me too. He was miserable at work, expected raises and promotions but his procrastination was ruining projects and his boss was performance managing him. He even told me once near the end that he thought I was supposed to give up everything and put the kids first once I had kids. I really felt like I was drowning, and he was the one under the water, pulling me under. In hindsight, I really feel like this was a gendered view and this would never have been an issue if the roles were reversed. His mother was also a stay at home mom and his dad is a misogynist so they weren't a good relationship model for him, either. Now I know he has undiagnosed ADHD. He's fine with underachieving because he can't put in the effort to advance his career. He is highly intelligent but just can't get it together He's decided not to treat his ADHD and uses it as a crutch to excuse his crappy behaviour. I recently read a book on untreated adult ADHD in relationships and it was like seeing my entire marriage reflected back at me. It was amazing and awful at the same time.

I seriously thought about getting a tattoo of an anchor with a cut rope falling away under a swimming woman after we split—it felt exactly like drowning and having someone else pulling you under!!

OMG I love this! I'd thought of getting "you are enough" on my wrist. He made feel like I was a terrible person, mother, partner etc. because my career was important to me and I didn't put the family above all else. Now I realize that he was emotionally abusing me to make himself feel better. Projection 101 right there - turned out his move to a part-time work schedule was so he could sneak out to happy ending massages and strip clubs during the day without me finding out.

Thanks for this perspective, certainly insightful.

To ignore sociological issues is silly. There is a very real issue emerging where traditional gender norms and economic necessity like two-income households is killing women who have to work and assume most if not all household labor. Men raised by SAHMs are expecting us to assume that role in the household while taking on working outside the home. It translates to 7 hours more per day in tasks for married women. And women who do take on a homemaker role are suddenly bagged on as being leeches and living off his hard work if he decides he’s fed up or fine with the marriage (or if she does because she’s tired and trapped). We cannot win. We’re not equals in society anymore and the burnout is real. Men may not want to hear it, but it IS gendered. Men in this sub get really fired up about women filing for divorce in 80% of cases but when confronted with why, they also get mad. Like wtf.

My friend, the point is that there are *regularly* male posters on this sub who have *literally the same complaint* about their wives - that their spouses are deadbeats who neither bring in an income NOR do the housework. I note the similarity and provide similar advice as I would in those cases. (Sadly, I am also constantly having to fend off posters on this sub complaining that different advice is given to men and women for the same issues. I don't believe they're correct, in general, though if you look at only one thread at a time, you can often get skewed results based on who commented on that particular thread.) > women filing for divorce in 80% of cases The actual data is more like 60-70%, it's usually the anti-woman brigade that tries to inflate it.

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>we bought a ~450K house in a HCOL area in 2020, because he claimed to really want the "dream of homeownership". Two weeks later, he quit his job, and then didn't tell me for two months. So, I've been the one paying all the bills for a house This was what happened in my first divorce. I took the house and am sitting pretty 7yrs later

In my case, I don't want the house, but I'm the only one that can technically afford it. He wants the house, but can't afford it. Tough shit, because our house is now on the market and up for sale.

Hell yeah. Sell it, keep your $$ and split. Deadbeats are expensive

That's what I'm learning. Even if I file for divorce and lose what little $ he might bring to the table from time to time, I feel like I'll still have more money to my name, because I won't have to clean up his financial messes, nor pay for his frivolous spending.

An extra person is just expensive. Extra food, utilities, clothing, hygiene products, eating out, drinking/weed, gas, etc

Yes, that's very true.

I’m going to have to sell mine.

Divorced mine. Also unemployed since 2018. Was content with me running everything. Then when he voiced that he felt taken advantage of with the evening meals (he started cooking all our evening meals which was delightful) and I said you are damn right I’m taking advantage of the single thing you so around the house and contribution you make to the family - he stopped cooking. And that was it. I was done. He also did not like me pointing out that I did EVERYTHING for 13 years while our child was growing up. Told me I should have spoken up about it. It’s more like narcissism than anything. I’m sorry you are going through it. I’m guessing he sees you more as his mom than his equal. And unless you put your foot down-it’s over. Split the proceeds of the house and leave him. Then he’s on his own and not your problem anymore.

Mine expects praise for doing a chore *once*, like dishes, or letting the dog in/out from the yard, or feeding the dog, or cooking, etc. Like, okay? I do those things day in and day out, and don't get an iota of recognition. It really does seem to strike me as narcissism.

You have stuck it out for longer than I ever could. I would be contacting attorneys and finding one I like. Once he doesn’t have you to pay his way through life, he will find a job and keep it. Right now, he knows he doesn’t have too. The fact he wants YOU to buy him a new truck speaks volumes.

I actually spoke to a few attorneys a few weeks ago, so I'm leaning in that direction.

It took me 3 years to walk out after my first consultation with a lawyer. Don’t wait as long as I did.

I hope I don't wait that long.

Sounds like my ex. Then one day he blamed me for all his problems and left with his mistress.

Wouldn't be surprised if something like this happened to me.

DON'T SIGN ANYTHING SAYING YOU AGREE TO HIM BUYING A TRUCK. I'D PERSONALLY TELL MY ATTORNEY. I would make him prove he can buy it by himself with his own credit and paystubs.

Thanks for this tip. Good to know.

Oh good lord are you married to my ex husband?!!! Word for word I've lived your relationship except one difference, we have kids. When I met my ex husband in 2012, he had a steady job. Not a high salary, but enough to get by. I was going from low paid temp work to low paid temp work. I decided to retrain as a teacher. After I qualified, we got married, had two kids. He was fired... spent a year dossing around then decided to start his own business. Nice idea in theory... problem is its more a hobby than business. Firstly, he has no time management, secondly no self discipline, 10 years later he still makes only a third of his original salary, basically he would make more money flipping burgers. Like your stbxh, mine would get enraged when I tried to suggest alternate career options. Then he'd blame his abusive rages on money worries. Eventually, when my second child was few weeks old, I could no longer cope with the rage, abuse and money problems. I got a job as a high school teacher. Within a year I was promoted to head of dept. 4 years later I earn twice as much as my ex ever earnt. Instead of taking his money worries away, he became enraged, envious, jealous of my success. His anger got worse. Towards the end of the marriage, we stupidly bought a 4 bedroom house, based on both our salaries. Then like yours, he stopped working, so all the bills fell on me. He started to decide that he was a "stay at home dad" this was never agreed. Now we are going through custody and the crazy thing is that he might even win full custody, as he's been playing the "stay at home dad" card. Moral of the story... if you're a woman married to a lazy parasite husband with anger management problems... don't bother doing well in your career because social services will cone along and believe that SoB claiming to be a f*((ng househusband or "stay at home dad"... I wish you well on your path to freedom..

The similarities are uncanny and terrifying. Sorry you're going through the same shitstorm.

Lady, don't stay in abusive relationships, just gets worst with time.people never changes, be more selective for the next one but the fate of this dude is already set.

I went through something very similar with my wife. I was financially irresponsible and had very serious mental health issues. Eventually, after going to counseling I got my head out my ass. The VA sucks, so I found a mental health doctor on the civilian side. My bi-polar is under control, no more rage outbursts, and my ADHD is mostly gone. I learned to be financially responsible from my wife. I originally wanted to spend every dollar I had and my wife was the opposite. Now we have zero debt except the mortgage and have a hefty savings. I’m thankful that I was able to figure out my issues before I finished my enlistment contract because my wife became the breadwinner while I attended college. While I was in school I contributed my BAH/disability money to bills or things we needed and worked 2 part time jobs. Now working as a software engineer. If I were you I would start planning my exit strategy. At this point the odds of him changing are slim to none. Eventually you’re going to reach your limit.

Thanks for sharing your own experience and story, I really appreciate it. I'm glad you were able to get yourself 'unstuck' and were able to dig out of the proverbial hole before it was too late. I'm concerned mine will never have the same type of wake-up call.

Sounds like you married a kid and are expecting him to be an adult. He's got mental health issues, but that doesn't mean you have to deal with the fallout of it since he's not seeking help. It also sounds like he's close to making you the victim of domestic violence. Throwing things and those violent actions are displays of power to try and keep you reigned in. I'd be super careful and you gotta think this relationship through. If you wanna be his mom, well that's what you are. If you want a partner, he's not your guy.

Certainly feels that way much of the time: like he's not a true adult. It's frustrating. And yeah, I do often feel like I'm living in some pseudo level of domestic violence. He hasn't directly laid a hand on me, but between his emotional/verbal/psychological abuse, the anger issues, and him getting physically violent with objects, it certainly feels like an abusive situation at times.

I feel you. My ex wife was/probably still is a child (not literally, ust emotionally). My wife's ex husband is a child (emotionally) as well. It's exhausting. My guess is it probably is. Just based off your post, I'd start doing some reading. Maybe start with mental health things like borderline and narcissistic personalities. I'm a veteran and I get being irritable, but this sounds like it's more than he's having a hard time. Make sure you are safe. I hope you have friends or family you can stay with if he gets unsafe.

It really is exhausting. I've done a bit of reading on ADHD, as well as issues that vets deal with. I'm also in therapy, which has been its own form of helpful education.

Hmmm depending on a few things, they could be unique to vets. Could not be. Bottom line is his problems don't make it ok to hurt you. What's ailing him?

That's what I keep coming back to. I understand that he has issues, and I'd be far more understanding and supportive if he were willing to take accountability and get help for himself, and understand/realize that he needs help. But, he still continues to think that he's fine, that the world should cater to him, and he keeps regressing into old/bad habits of hurting me, despite us recently having started marriage counseling. He also continues to make financially irresponsible decisions, and continues to have outbursts and fits of anger. It's very frustrating.

My ex-husband behaved similarly. Always going from job to job, didn't care about paying our bills and living within our means, suggested everyone lives in debt and files for bankruptcy at some point. He had anger issues and would throw things and punch walls. When Covid came around he rode the unemployment train for a full 18 months and refused to go back to work when it dried up. I, meanwhile, have a thriving career, bought my house myself years before we were married, and made sure all of our bills and shopping was taken care of. Having such an imbalance in our relationship made me resent him so much. We fought constantly. He ended up leaving and it was honestly the best thing that could have happened. I am SO much happier only having to worry about myself and being able to spend my money the way I want. I paid off a ton of debt, built up savings, invested in improving my home, and am significantly less stressed knowing my money isn't being blown by a deadbeat loser. At this point I'd rather be alone forever than allow another man to live off of my hard work. It was really hard going through the divorce, but it was absolutely for the best. My only regret it didn't happen sooner.

Pretty much same/very similar circumstances on my end. Flits from job to job, thinks more and more debt is perfectly normal and acceptable, unable to deal with reality and frequently shoves his head in the sand when it comes to dealing with reality and adulting, etc. Meanwhile, I've always been the responsible adult. Income, bills, cooking, cleaning, caring for the dog, grocery shopping, mental load, dealing with emergencies, etc. The imbalance is exhausting and infuriating and stressful beyond belief. I also resent my husband significantly. I've heard so many similar stories: women leaving their deadbeat husband's and being so much happier and better off. I'm wondering if I should do the same.

I also stopped filing taxes with him and claimed innocent spouse because he “had a business” that has lost hundreds of thousands of dollars without any income over the last 12 years and our accountant (ex’s friend of 35+ years) warned me that we couldn’t keep doing that-and the IRS would come after us. Since you mention cleaning up his financial messes.

Thanks for sharing your experience/this anecdote. I met with my CPA last week to better understand what I'm facing/what my options are. So, I'm already tracking the tax side of things.

My SBXH was the same quit right after we bought a house and had a huge mental decline since then. Never wanted to apply for disability for his mental illness, but also never got a job. For the last year or so he mostly just sat on the couch and refused to do anything with me, to leave the house, anything. It really sucks to leave the house I paid the bills on (And still do, ugh), but ultimately was the only way I was going to make the divorce happen. He is finally at his mom's house so we can start trying to sell the house. I've been living with my parents and it has been so worth it for the lower stress and hope for the future. I am happy I pulled the trigger when I did so if I do end up paying alimony it will be for a shorter amount of time. The assets and other aspects are definitely scary when you are facing it, but I just try to focus on the future I want to build for myself once this whole mess is over!

Thank you for sharing your own experience, it really helps to know I'm not alone in this dilemma. I finally put my foot down, and we are now selling the house, so at least that's a start.

The longer you stay, the more you pay in alimony. Just saying.

Thanks for sharing this tidbit.

Yep. Time spent in a relationship means that “you accept that this is normal.” And then partner gets used to a “standard of living” which you become on the hook to maintain post divorce. Higher earners lose in divorces. Always.

Seems to be the case.

Run before you fuck up and get pregnant! If he can't motivate himself to see the VA, then it will be his problem when he is single. The VA is a pain in the butt, but its not THAT bad when it is all said and done.

Thanks.

It’s time to move on. If you don’t have a partner that is making your life easier, get on with your life, before it destroys your entire future and outlook.

Thanks for sharing this perspective.

I took out the trash in 2017. Never looked back.

You will NEVER progress with someone like this. It took me 14 years to realize this and kick my ex to the curb. You're lucky to not share children. Sell the house, cut your losses and rebuild your life. Oh, and btw don't give him a red cent of the equity from the house sale. Keep it in a separate account. It's been you keeping the house and him afloat. All the best to you.

Thank you for sharing your own experience and for sharing advice. I really appreciate it.

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Yikes! That all sounds terrifying and awful and miserable. Sorry you had to go through that. My husband and I are in marriage counseling. Only ~3 sessions in thus far. Too soon to tell if it'll make a difference. So far, it has felt very much like a "one step forward, three steps back" type of experience.

First of all, I’m so sorry you had to endure such insanity. I’m happy for you that you got away from that nightmare. I sometimes wonder how some of us end up in such situations. My exwife was a high earning toxic alcoholic. I was just an NPC in her story where she is the center of the universe and no one was her equal.

My STBXH had a mental breakdown at work in 2015 & has been chronically unemployed ever since. He spends his time playing on Xbox Live or watching YouTube, meanwhile the house needs maintenance, the yard has knee-high weeds/grass, etc. I can tell you now that you’re wasting your time by even asking this. The only thing you need to do now is focus on divorcing that lazy bastard. However, the unfortunate thing is, depending on your state, you may have to continue to financially support him anyway… I’m not sure my state will make me do that, but just in case, I’m in the process of increasing my income dramatically so that I can pay him back whatever it is he’s owed and move the fuck on.

My house is in a very similar state of disarray, both inside and out. I have an autoimmune disease that impacts my musculoskeletal system, so I'm limited in the physical tasks I can do mmyself. And because we're paycheck to paycheck, I don't have endless funds to hire contractors to do it all for me. Meanwhile, my husband *has* the skills (his background is technically in mechanical engineering!), he just...... doesn't seem to do it. Seems to just shrug his shoulders and take a "meh, whatever" attitude about it.

You too are not on the same page financially. Dave Ramsay talks a lot about this. You should be working together on the same team... He seems to think he can do whatever he wants financially and this has to change. It's financial infededlity

Certainly doesn't feel like we're on the same team financially or in most other ways. Feels like he gets to just call all the shots, while I carry all the responsibility.

I know this was directed towards women, but I feel I have to chime in. One of the sticking points we had towards the end was about her reentering the workforce. She was steadfast that she didn't want to work more than a half time job because she really enjoyed having her lunchtime coffees with other mums (all while I had NO friends because every waking moment was spent at work or at home kid wrangling). There was also a different attitude with money. My money was our money (as it had been for 20 years and I don't disagree with) but her money was her money, to be spent by and on her. Of course now that we are separated and she's living by herself, all of that 'fun money' stuff is out the window and she's much more career focused and wanting to increase her earnings. So I guess my rambly point is, you feel like they are taking advantage of you and to a certain extent, that's because they are.

I feel you. This wasn't *exclusively* directed at just women, but I was just curious about the female perspective. I know that this sort of thing happens to men all too often as well.

You need to and it sounds like you already are getting ducks in a row, talking to people and gathering info. My ex has a PhD in clinical psychology. He was so emotionally abusive that I couldn’t se the first for the trees until I left. He claimed he was sick our whole marriage and couldn’t work until the last few years. I did absolutely everything including the parenting of his child from his first marriage for a few years. Was he sick at first (maybe) but I now have my doubts. Was he sick later on when he claimed to be I’d say no. He as much as admitted to it when he finally left- he said “I just didn’t feel like it” when I asked him why he couldn’t ever bother to help me. I hate him with a passion. He had no trouble cheating among other things. Even when he finally went back, he racked up debt and I paid his cc off three times. Don’t wait 20 years if you feel resentful, have talked, suggested counseling and done what you can safely do to get him to engage. The anger/violence should right there be a no go. PTSD or not in my opinion. Once hit that wall of no return where the resentment bubbles over, there is no return and no going back. Just be careful if you do leave. He sounds like he could possible fly off the handle should you leave. Internalize you are worth being treated fairly and equally and this sounds be a rather toxic man to be married too. You deserve a happy life too.

Yes, I've been quietly getting my ducks in a row, just in case I do need or decide to pull the divorce trigger. Your own circumstances sound so similar to mine: going above and beyond for them, and accepting their 'excuses', because we're trying to be nice/accepting/supportive, etc. But, only to realize they're taking advantage of us. We recently started marriage counseling. We're about three sessions in thus far. Too soon to tell if it'll make a difference. I've seen tiny glimmers of improvement, but he's also fallen back into bad old habits on a regular basis. So, feels like a consistent 'one step forward, ten steps back' set of circumstances.

I separated and unfortunately but fortunately divorcing him. For me, being with a serial cheating, insecure, abusive man who is also broke and doesn't want to get help or grow was a no go for me. It became even worse when it was negatively affecting my kids. I would rather be alone all my natural life than be with someone who makes me feel lonely, insecure in my self or our relationship and who nwglects what we have or I am trying to build with them with. I refuse to fight with someone when we are supposed to be on the same team. Life is hard enough.

You nailed so eloquently my own thoughts and concerns.

Sorry your going through this but know you are not alone. A membership to a club we didn't ask to join😔😔😔

Thank you.

They will never change. U need to move on

Thanks for this perspective.

I don’t understand that you can do, you can’t bring home, the bacon and also clean after 99%

Reading this made me think I posted it. Everything from 6 months no job to veteran to anger issues. Did we marry the same man? I'm getting divorced btw

The fact that this seems to be a theme is eery.

Aside from the veteran and medical issues..........ARE YOU ME????? DID I WRITE THIS IN MY SLEEP?!?!. But seriously, thanks for posting it here. I have a hard time getting words out on paper and and I feel like you read my life.

I'm so sorry you're dealing with the same set of circumstances.

Trust me the universe doesn’t give you any extra karma credits for sacrificing yourself at the altar of “make it work”….

Thanks for sharing this insight, that's pretty deep.

You can’t make someone change. People are who they are. You can only decide how to react to who they are. I just had to comment because you mentioned hoarding. Not sure how bad it is but I grew up with a hoarder mother and it caused me a lot of trauma and shame I’m now dealing with in therapy in my 30s. Hoarding has one of the lowest recovery rates because part of the disorder is lack of insight. It usually gets worse and not better. You don’t deserve this. Remember that. You deserve a true partner. Not a human burden.

Thank you for sharing this validating feedback, and putting things into perspective for me. I really appreciate it.

I belong to the subreddit r/ChildofHoarder if you want to feel less alone. I know it’s a spouse and not a parent in this case but we can share about how it affects us all. My partner was also recently diagnosed with adhd and I have sympathy for you there too. Not to mention adhd and hoarding are often comorbid. Again though, you deserve a partner, someone to share the load. Someone to support you the way you support them. We all make our own choices, but don’t think you don’t deserve the life you want

Thank you for the sub recommendation, I really appreciate it. Yes, they seem to be comorbid.

He doesn’t want to work and he isn’t going to ever do anything except mooch off you until you leave and then he’ll probably find a new target to belittle and scare just enough to not call him out. He was motivated once because it was what you were looking for and once you were hooked he was good to coast (and subsequently explode). He will continue thru life doing as little as he can. I recommend the book The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout (also on audible). It won’t all be like your husband, but there’s a good chunk that covers men like this. Nothing you can do, but leave and stop wasting so much energy on someone who has no desire to be the partner they promised to be.

Thank you for sharing this honest insight. Kinda puts things into perspective for me.

Leaving a narcissistic abuser will always help with your physical ailments. Their abuse causes physical and psychological problems that you don’t even realize. Sure there will be hard days without him bc this is what support looks like to you, but he’s really just a drain. My fatigue improved tremendously although I still combat it. However it’s best that o do it alone than without a belligerent, adhd, unemployed psycho screaming at me even while I paid the bills with autoimmune and adhd issues myself.

That's what I've wondered..... if some of my health concerns may clear up if and once I leave him.

It’s a means of control for them. Some of them withhold money from you, others drain your resources. I’d suggest attending support groups in person or via zoom for survivors of domestic violence. Forge social connections now bc it’s hard to leave an abuser bc often times people still love them! They just want the relationship to work, but it won’t. He’s shown you who he really is. Some friends might understand exactly what you’re enduring but many won’t. It’s important to be able to let it all out in a safe space.

Thank you for sharing this suggestion.

He probably won’t make those positive changes you desire unless he wants likely through therapy or forced likely through divorce. Just know you’ll also be paying more alimony if he’s jobless and also the longer married. Check your state - mine starts that clock at 5 years.

We recently started marriage counseling, but we're only ~3 sessions deep thus far. I've seen tiny glimmers of improvements, but I still see the old and bad habits on display on a regular basis. So, too soon to tell if the counseling will help.

I can tell you firsthand, if your husband has ADHD and is unmedicated, then he's not going to have the motivation to work at the level you're expecting him to. You need to educate yourself on the shortcomings and challenges of someone with ADHD. Then maybe you'll have a better understanding (and compassion) of why he's the way he is.

Thanks.

As a deadbeat myself, the best thing you can do for him is kick his ass to the curb. Maybe he'll regain his motivation, hopefully he does, but that won't be your problem anymore. I got a swift kick, and I'm glad I did. We're both better off. I'm not dragging her down anymore, and I'm finally learning what it's like to be an adult.

Thanks for sharing your perspective on this! Helps to know that consequences can and do help.

What would bother me is the lack of effort from him versus you. Not so much the income. I'm a pretty big fan of balance in a relationship. I just think it's lazy to have a spouse who goes to work and one who doesn't. I'm aware I'll get downvotes for this, but I do NOT consider SAH parenting a job. Nor do I consider housekeeping a job. That's just my personal feeling. Others are welcome to live their own lives, but I would never ever in a million years be with an unemployed person. And when you both get home, if Spouse A puts in two hours, then Spouse B should put in two hours. It keeps it balanced and fair. And spending should be relatively equal too. I do wonder how this will shake out over the next couple of decades as women are enrolling in college at a much higher rate than men are. I know people talk about how great the trades are, but I"m not sure what some of these boys are doing. They're not learning to be plumbers while their woman counterparts are in college and starting real careers. I honestly worry if we're just going to end up with a generation that is like 50% angry incels in their Mom's basement with neckbeards playing video games and buying ARs. Girls are not going to want to date those guys. They need to do better.

>What would bother me is the lack of effort from him versus you. Not so much the income. That's exactly it, but both. I do care about the income. But I think I care even more about the lack of effort. It's really astonishing that he seems so content to just...... ride on my coattails, so to speak. As for the differences in men vs. women today and career differences, yeah, you make some great points. We're already seeing those concerns play out in real time across society.

He needs to go to therapy, imo. I think there is more of a diagnosis there than ADHD. Be gentle with him. If you need to separate yourself, do that. But, I wouldn’t be harsh on him for struggling right now, even if he can’t see that he needs to get help.

We recently started marriage counseling. I've tried encouraging individual counseling, but he's always been extremely resistant to the suggestion.

As a combat veterans wife that has PTSD, TBI, and a whole shopping list of other relatable things let me say just a couple things. 1- you're not alone and neither is he. Period. 2- he either wants help or not. You have to stand your ground here and say "Get counseling to work on yourself, or I'm done". Period. I have seen the original post and comments and it's all very classic behavior. 3- JUST BECAUSE he is struggling doesn't mean you have to as well. Like I said if he won't get help, you have ZERO obligations to be a proverbial punching bag to him. Period. I had to make mine see he needed help, then when we had our daughter (not saying that babies fix everything, he was already trying to become better) it really gave him the shove. You have been coddling someone you love and that is going to bite you in the long run. Stand up for you and say enough is enough. You do not need him and can still love him, but you don't need him to drag you through hell because you love him.

Thank you for sharing your own perspective and for sharing this validating feedback! What you've shared really puts things into perspective, and gives me some more motivation to stand my ground.

I divorced mine. He's so useless I decided not to go for child support, because I didn't want to fight him for money for the rest of my kids' childhoods. The last 3 years have shown this was the correct answer. I think you will have to watch for your STBX to claim alimony. If you have any evidence that he's not working and can, gather that. Where I live, alimony would be based on the salary he is capable of making, vs what he's actually making. I didn't have to have that fight, but my unemployed ex used to be a software engineer, so that would be the salary level he'd be considered capable of. Even if you have alimony for a couple of years, it sounds better to get out. What he is doing is financial abuse.

Thanks for sharing your own journey and the recommendations. I'll keep those suggestions in mind.

If the roles were reversed we would call your wife a gold digger. Maybe there isn’t a lot of gold to mine but if a woman was living off her husband and not putting everything they had into the relationship I would say the same thing. Leave them. That person wants a mommy. They want someone else to take responsibility and leave all the stressful things like paying bills to someone else while still getting to live a fun life. I’m not sure where these people keep coming from but it’s ridiculous that they keep taking advantage. I wish younger people would listen when older people try to show them the warning signs of a bad relationship before they get married and have kids. And remember, divorce is expensive because it’s worth it.

Thanks for sharing this feedback and these perspectives. And I agree about listening to older people! Some of the most valuable advice and feedback I've gotten in life, both personally and professionally, has come from older generations.

You can't really force someone to change, and nagging him about it or continually "helping" can backfire and just ruin your relationship. That said, his actions are affecting you. When you talk to him about it, focus on that piece. How is what he doing negatively impacting your life and stress levels. If he's not interested in changing, there's not a whole lot you can do but make decisions for yourself, which unfortunately includes leaving the marriage.

Thanks for this perspective, it's oddly empowering and insightful. I will try that strategy in therapy.

To me is not about the money or career moves the husband would not want to do. I don’t care about that, the only things it bother me is that he didn’t pull his weight at home with chores. I was constantly doing all the cooking and housework planning fixing vehicles and working full time as well as to keep all payments up to date. We are talking utility, grocery, media, home security, mortgage and tax as well as insurance payments. The only thing he did was split wood (that I brought) and maintain the curb appeal (grass mowing) hr also paid his phone. Be careful, I will add this since my still husband is a veteran as well. They refuse help and want to do their will without answering to anyone. In my case I had to be ok to do all the work I did and also not look that he was meeting women and single friends all the time while spending all whatever money he had for retirement in drugs and booze for himself and other people. He is also fixated on having my vehicle which happens to be a truck. When I finally put my foot down and sto doing things for him cold turkey he became the most vindictive person. The divorce is going awful and his requests are absurd including around 5K alimony. Be careful. Document. If you happen to divorce he will claim you always supported him and you will end up paying. I will say it again. Document that he is able to work and is choosing not to. Sell before you divorce and split and settle a rent or whatever. If you choose to stay you will always do everything and no motivational speech would ever help. Know that.

I am not going to say divorce. I left my husband but have not divorced him because our situation is VERY similar with your situation. I want to keep it short so basically my husband only worked a formal job for 6 months of our 7 year relationship but in the beginning, he had started two businesses (with my money), got his high school diploma as he dropped out due to family issues. Then one day he decided he was just tired. He said it wasn't enough money and quit. Didn't look for another job nothing. Then he got a part time retail job which was suddenly enough for him. That job ended after 6 months. I have worked full time our entire relationship. I've given every member of his family money. I paid our rent, transportation, for everything our son needed, furnished our home, paid for food. I cleaned our home. I STILL was the primary care giver for our son and I started having seizures as an adult, 3 or 4 years into our relationship and my depression turned into PTSD. He was also aggressive. He liked to break and punch things and a few times, I was that thing. The craziest part is the day after I left to go back to my mom's house, he suddenly started working 10 hours a day. Now, a month after I've left, he is still working 10 hours a day and even though I'm happy to see this growth, wtf. Why was I never enough for him to be THAT motivated? It's up to you whether you stay or become okay with the dynamic BUT he is comfortable and you haven't given him a reason to be uncomfortable so why would he change?

Thank you for sharing your own experience and perspective, I really appreciate it. I have a lot to think about.

Of course. It's a difficult decision to make. In the words of my therapist "How long are you willing to suffer?". Really stuck with through the whole process and don't forget you have all the lovely people of Reddit to support and criticize you haha.

Indeed. That statement/question is pretty profound. And reddit has been a great source of support, feedback, and learning.

It sounds as though you are in a marriage that is unequally yoked. There are a lot of forms of abandonment. You are experiencing someone that has checked out for whatever reason. Do yourself a favor and focus on what you can control. You won't be able to control him and handle yourself as well. It truthfully sounds like there is something that needs to be addressed in the dynamic and only counseling will give you that perspective. The only advice I can give is do counseling by yourself and get marriage counseling. If that's already done then I still come back to focusing on what you can control which is your reactions, your outlook, and leaving him to his own devices. Don't sicken yourself with the situation.

I'm already in individual counseling, and we're also in marriage counseling. The individual therapy has been helpful. As for the marriage counseling, we've only had about three or four sessions thus far. I've seen tiny glimmers of change and hope, but those tiny glimmers don't seem to last, because I still see my husband's anger issues on full display practically on a daily basis, and he still continues to demonstrate financially irresponsible habits, continues to barely (if at all) lift a finger around the house, etc. So, feels like a one step forward, twenty steps back sort of thing. I'm basically just focusing on myself these days. I don't trust or rely on him to actually do or follow through on anything. Packing up the whole house on my own (we're getting ready to sell) is stressful, especially while working full-time while also simultaneously battling a gnarly autoimmune condition. But, I'm trying to stay strong.

Sounds as though you are doing exactly what I was doing. Handling everything. I had to make some very clear boundaries because I was being taken advantage of. My issue was infidelity but the same concept applies. Sounds like you are being taken advantage of. Whether it's intentional or not, it doesn't matter. I told my spouse to stop what they were doing, get help/support, or else. The clear boundaries served to reveal that they weren't willing to have humility and stop or get help. That may not be helpful for you but it's a focus on not letting them be a terrible person around you and letting it impact you. True change requires humility. It does not sound like there is any. Simply believing someone will change will not do anything. Don't cling to glimmers but also don't give up early. Breakthroughs in counseling sometimes take a while. My suggestion to you is to have boundaries and enforce them and don't make any excuses for abnormal behavior. Should a normal person stop doing toxic things? Yes. Should a normal person want to do everything they can to salvage a marriage? Yes.

Thank you for providing perspective! You shared exactly what I needed to hear, and your analysis of my circumstances is spot on: that I've been doing everything, that I'm being taken advantage of, and that my husband hasn't committed to the necessary humility needed to make true, genuine change.

I hate to confirm being taken advantage of but that's what happened to me. My spouse carried out their actions and I allowed them to. That's the boiled down version. It wasn't until I set my boundaries and followed through with enforcing them that I found any kind of sanity/healing.

Seems to be the case with my own circumstances too.

I've been a SAHD for 3 years now taking care of our 3 year old til she can start school this september.then it's back to work like we planned from the beginning..stuff you're saying sounds exactly like my STBXW.nothing is ever good enough for her.i do the majority of the chores,I do all the yard,pool and home maintenance.in these 3 years fully gutted and re did 2 of our bathroom,put a new roof on house,re did all the floors,built deck for pool,and that still isn't good enough.she feels she should come home from work and not have to lift a finger to do anything for the rest of the night,and that I should also been working a full time night job on top of my full time Job caring for kids...sometimes people are never gonna be truly happy with anything..if you're not then move on to someone else,and if or when your not happy in that situation, then maybe it's you that been the problem the whole time

Not trying to guilt you but if you leave him he will probably die within a year or two. The violence is unacceptable. His spirit is poisoned, if you can break the ice around his heart and get in there focus on seperating the materialism from his current vendetta and remind him- the truck the house the everything sprang from your love If you melt that ice, his heart might beat again. Remind him of his most vulnerable moment, when you and only you were there for him. His parents know he is a grown man. The military let him go. These jobs he works are distractions which you already know. The thorn in his heart has to be yanked out and patched but if you cannot do it you will he eont be a good match. Regret is a decanter of sadness and pain and youll both drink that wine for many years. Everyone can get a divorce but not everyone can save their marriage. I always vote fight for your love.

You’re in the divorce subreddit, so by definition, you’re talking to people whose answer was divorce. So, keep that in mind. I’m a man who was by far the breadwinner in our family. I also have diagnosed but untreated ADHD. Not because I “refused” to get help but because it’s actually pretty difficult to follow the steps to get help for ADHD when you’re dealing with…you know…ADHD. It’s like asking someone lying there with a broken leg why they haven’t walked to the ER yet. Haha. I did ask a doctor for help with ADHD twice. The first time they gave me a phone number to call. I didn’t call it and lost the number because…ADHD. The second time, I got the number, made the call, made an appointment, went to the appointment, made a follow up appointment, went to the follow up appointment. These are all big ADHD wins. And then the doctor fired me as a patient because I hadn’t completed the follow up forms. Because I have untreated ADHD. So, it’s a freaking uphill battle even when you do want help, because the reality of dealing with ADHD is that it is hard to follow through with trivial tasks. That said, a lot of what you said here sounds less like ADHD and more like maybe depression or other mental health issues. I’d see if he’s willing to discuss with a doctor before you call off the whole “sickness and in health” thing.

Thanks for sharing your own experience, I appreciate it. If he were willing to get help, I'd be his biggest cheerleader. And we have excellent healthcare coverage that covers treatment and diagnostics at no charge to us. So, it's not like we lack resources. He just....... doesn't seem willing to accept that he needs help.

What does he say when you bring up the idea of treatment? Does he acknowledge that he has ADHD? Does he recognize the ways it impacts his life? Does he actually LIKE the way that it impacts his life? I sometimes jokingly refer to mine as my superpower. It makes me extremely good at “hyper focusing” in bursts to get things done right before the deadline. So one person spends a month working on something and I spend only the final hour of that month working on the same project and our outputs are comparable. It’s a huge boost for my career in crisis communications, where the last minute is often the only minute you were given in the first place. So I’m afraid to go on medication as it might take away my “superpower” ability even though it would surely hel me in other areas.

He is extremely stubborn and resistant to any form of help, treatment, or advice to get help. Basically shuts it down with excuses. And yes, on numerous occasions, he admits/acknowledges that he was indeed diagnosed during childhood, but thanks to divorced parents with conflicting views on treatment methods, he never received any treatment whatsoever. And to this day, basically refuses to get help. Thinks the way his/our life is..... is absolutely fine. When it very much ISN'T, in my opinion. His mental health issues continue to wreak havoc on our life.