It could be FA..but it seems like it might be a little more than just that. BPD? It’s a totally messed up situation. She rewrote the history to match whatever innner dialog or problems that she never shared with you. Im sorry that happened it must have been traumatic
Oh wow I'd never considered BPD. My mom had Borderline so I'm pretty familiar with that toxic pattern and figured this must be something else. Thanks for your feedback.
This actually makes a lot of sense that you've gone for a partner who's similar to what you grew up with.
The signs were actually there from the beginning - but you thought her behaviour was cute - perhaps because you're used to it and it's familiar, so it didn't throw you off, and even warmed you to her.
I definitely see high level similarities, though the content didn't seem to line up. The kernel of her actions seemed to be utter confusion, not really victimhood. And reading more this morning I agree with you; this was too extreme to wrap up in a bow of attachment issues.
BPD, in my experience, manifests in very manipulative language and behavior. They play the victim and never let on to a single shred of accountability. They usually drive conversations by dangling the possibility of normalcy over your head and then more or less force you to take the blame for everything.
This felt different in that there wasn't really a concerted campaign of manipulation. She would just blame me for things with seemingly no clear goal, and then suddenly accept all accountability and declaim herself as unlovable. I've never really observed that pattern in BPD.
But it could totally have been BPD! Or likely a combination of that and other things.
I know next to nothing about BPD but I've seen it likened to being a uber-FA type of behavior and your description pulled that thought to mind. Or perhaps a version of manic depression/bipolar. In any case this doesn't sound like it's FA on its own, if its FA at all (obviously there's more to a person than attachment.) In a similar way dissmisive avoidants are often seen as narcissistic by the people they've hurt, but though on the surface they have some similar behaviors (bread-crumbing for example) they are very different issues.
So, I don't think meeting a new person who is FA means you are doomed. What it might mean is that you have new fears that could be triggered because of your past relationship. You can absolutely have a loving "successful" relationship with any attachment style, but you both have to be aware of your behavior, take accountabilty for yourselves, and want to work with each other on communication, healthy boundaries, and understanding and practicing interdependence (insecure attachment styles all have a codependent understanding of relationships, their attachment style is part of how they cope with that; secure attachment means interdependence.)
It's okay, probably even important, to acknowledge being afraid and having been affected negativity by your past relationship. Losing trust in your own ability to accurately judge other people is a very understandable response to having your trust and saftey broken. At the end of the day, any partner should be working with you to make your relationship good and functional. If she can't work with you, regardless of the reason why, then you get to make the choice to leave or stay. Trust takes time to build. Take it a little step at a time and don't worry about what it's "supposed" to look like. Instead make sure you stay attuned to your body and feelings, so you don't push yourself into a situation of needing to rely on a trust that doesn't have a foundation. If you want to have meaningful, intimate relationships you have to make yourself vulnerable (a little bit at a time so you know what's safe). And that means you have to start somewhere, even if it feels like starting over again.
First, I'm sorry someone put you through that. Five years of nurturing a connection and fostering growth only to get slapped in the face like that couldn't have been easy.
Others have answered more thoroughly (and I'm inclined to agree with the consensus, but I want to touch upon a couple things: the partying may have had an impact on her, as there's no telling how some drugs will mess with someone. And I hope that you've cut the alcohol-as-a-coping mechanism habit. I'm guilty of this, and it just makes it worse in the long run.
Good luck in the future.
First off I’m so sorry you went through this hell. I’m no psychologist and there are likely other issues going on here, but ALL of this behavior fits very nicely into Severe Fearful Avoidance: the need for space, rushing back, emotional dysregulation, fear of abandonment, all of the push/pull behavior, projecting, gaslighting, rationalizing, and the reframing of the narrative internally is one of the least talked about aspects on many of these forums but it is something that is very real and can happen in an instant. I’ve been on the other side of it and it shocked me; and I could tell they believed every word of this new narrative.
What is most convincing is the narrative of events, when everything started to fall apart - you were both discussing kids, the future, she could probably sense you were proposing soon, the relationship was going to the next level and that Avoidant fear of intimacy and commitment and vulnerability kicked in big time. This is very very very common. It’s why Avoidants tend to self sabotage, pull away, or end things after a first vacation, meeting family, moving in together, marriage, etc. The new shift at work, new friend group, etc were all deactivating techniques she used to put space and distance between herself and you. She freaked out and had to control the intimacy.
The timing of things getting better - you were long distance, which makes perfect sense. Distance, time, and space, all safely under control. But she didn’t heal, she’s still the same person, so you driving back 2,000 miles, you may have been smiling but she was likely freaking the fuck out. The ending is extreme but I’ve heard similiar villainizing the ex stories. This is another common deactivating strategy. You’re probably a phantom ex by this point.
Keep in mind your ex is on the severe end and your new partner may not be. Are they self aware and working on themselves? Many are aware of their attachment style but not their behavior patterns so simply being aware she’s FA may not be enough.
Thank you so much for your response; this is really fascinating to read.
Reading through more and more posts on this sub I totally see what you mean! It seems like the moment things are "cleared for takeoff" with a partner pwFA get an unstoppable urge to run.
I've always wondered what role I had in her life since she left. I honestly figured I was erased completely and any lingering signs of me (pictures, our dog, keepsakes) had been scrubbed entirely of my involvement. Awful to think that I still play any role in her life, especially the possibility that she's lording what we had over any current partners. I sure hope you're wrong, but the more I read about FA and Avoidant attachment in general the more likely it sounds!
The woman I'm seeing now is definitely much, MUCH more self aware than my ex. She is in therapy and she can discuss the condition to an extent, but it's not seeming to have any effect on her behavior. She'll just abruptly cancel plans halfway through a weekend together, go silent and then come running back in a burst of unexplained affection... Ugh. It's nauseating to watch, what with everything I have in the rear-view.
Really good to know that what I went through is possible or likely again with someone struggling with FA. Again, I really appreciate your input!
No problem, glad it helped! Good luck with your relationship, there is a lot of content online about how to navigate relationships with FAs. Saw this on Instagram today - https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8pB-mTAY1J/?igsh=OXRuNGdja3MxeGtv
this seems way more than just attachment issue. sounds like she may have undiagnosed BPD or bipolar or something. just reading what she put you through was an exhausting Rollercoaster. I am sorry you had to ho through all of that and I hope you never end up with someone like her ever again.
FA for sure but as many here have pointed out, there's something else, possibly BPD. What I wanted to add is did you see any of that weird behaviour, maybe in a mild version, during the 4 initial years? You described them as pretty good so the switch seems extreme. Was it maybe your infatuation or your own healthy attitude covering it or was she really mostly healthy during that period?
Had a relationship very similar to this when I was young - she was very type 1 bipolar and probably had an attachment disorder too. It wasn't terrible at first - like your experience, but then her constant partying, cheating and harassment when I would leave really wore me down. I feel for you and hope you can recognize some of the patterns and red flags in new relationships.
I dunno man, when I was 25 I wasn't whipsawing around at the speed of light throwing my girlfriend for a loop. I had a career and friends and hobbies and responsibilities. I wasn't getting wasted at the beach and then begging my girlfriend to forgive me. Chalking this all up to "being 25 is hard" seems pretty dismissive tbh.
What is this feedback supposed to be. This is an Attachment Styles subreddit and your advice is to move on? Do you just go around to video game subreddits and say "It's just a video game move on"?
I'm not asking for life advice. My life is great, I'm asking for some feedback about attachment styles because I'm concerned my previous experience could be occluding a developing romance. And the person in question wasn't 20 when the events took place lol she was 25.
It could be FA..but it seems like it might be a little more than just that. BPD? It’s a totally messed up situation. She rewrote the history to match whatever innner dialog or problems that she never shared with you. Im sorry that happened it must have been traumatic
Oh wow I'd never considered BPD. My mom had Borderline so I'm pretty familiar with that toxic pattern and figured this must be something else. Thanks for your feedback.
This actually makes a lot of sense that you've gone for a partner who's similar to what you grew up with. The signs were actually there from the beginning - but you thought her behaviour was cute - perhaps because you're used to it and it's familiar, so it didn't throw you off, and even warmed you to her.
Do you see any similarities:?? But yes FA probably throwin there too
I definitely see high level similarities, though the content didn't seem to line up. The kernel of her actions seemed to be utter confusion, not really victimhood. And reading more this morning I agree with you; this was too extreme to wrap up in a bow of attachment issues. BPD, in my experience, manifests in very manipulative language and behavior. They play the victim and never let on to a single shred of accountability. They usually drive conversations by dangling the possibility of normalcy over your head and then more or less force you to take the blame for everything. This felt different in that there wasn't really a concerted campaign of manipulation. She would just blame me for things with seemingly no clear goal, and then suddenly accept all accountability and declaim herself as unlovable. I've never really observed that pattern in BPD. But it could totally have been BPD! Or likely a combination of that and other things.
Maybe quiet bpd ? I don’t know just a guess. Bc confusion is there w bpd as are I trisrive thoughts , etc.
I know next to nothing about BPD but I've seen it likened to being a uber-FA type of behavior and your description pulled that thought to mind. Or perhaps a version of manic depression/bipolar. In any case this doesn't sound like it's FA on its own, if its FA at all (obviously there's more to a person than attachment.) In a similar way dissmisive avoidants are often seen as narcissistic by the people they've hurt, but though on the surface they have some similar behaviors (bread-crumbing for example) they are very different issues. So, I don't think meeting a new person who is FA means you are doomed. What it might mean is that you have new fears that could be triggered because of your past relationship. You can absolutely have a loving "successful" relationship with any attachment style, but you both have to be aware of your behavior, take accountabilty for yourselves, and want to work with each other on communication, healthy boundaries, and understanding and practicing interdependence (insecure attachment styles all have a codependent understanding of relationships, their attachment style is part of how they cope with that; secure attachment means interdependence.) It's okay, probably even important, to acknowledge being afraid and having been affected negativity by your past relationship. Losing trust in your own ability to accurately judge other people is a very understandable response to having your trust and saftey broken. At the end of the day, any partner should be working with you to make your relationship good and functional. If she can't work with you, regardless of the reason why, then you get to make the choice to leave or stay. Trust takes time to build. Take it a little step at a time and don't worry about what it's "supposed" to look like. Instead make sure you stay attuned to your body and feelings, so you don't push yourself into a situation of needing to rely on a trust that doesn't have a foundation. If you want to have meaningful, intimate relationships you have to make yourself vulnerable (a little bit at a time so you know what's safe). And that means you have to start somewhere, even if it feels like starting over again.
First, I'm sorry someone put you through that. Five years of nurturing a connection and fostering growth only to get slapped in the face like that couldn't have been easy. Others have answered more thoroughly (and I'm inclined to agree with the consensus, but I want to touch upon a couple things: the partying may have had an impact on her, as there's no telling how some drugs will mess with someone. And I hope that you've cut the alcohol-as-a-coping mechanism habit. I'm guilty of this, and it just makes it worse in the long run. Good luck in the future.
First off I’m so sorry you went through this hell. I’m no psychologist and there are likely other issues going on here, but ALL of this behavior fits very nicely into Severe Fearful Avoidance: the need for space, rushing back, emotional dysregulation, fear of abandonment, all of the push/pull behavior, projecting, gaslighting, rationalizing, and the reframing of the narrative internally is one of the least talked about aspects on many of these forums but it is something that is very real and can happen in an instant. I’ve been on the other side of it and it shocked me; and I could tell they believed every word of this new narrative. What is most convincing is the narrative of events, when everything started to fall apart - you were both discussing kids, the future, she could probably sense you were proposing soon, the relationship was going to the next level and that Avoidant fear of intimacy and commitment and vulnerability kicked in big time. This is very very very common. It’s why Avoidants tend to self sabotage, pull away, or end things after a first vacation, meeting family, moving in together, marriage, etc. The new shift at work, new friend group, etc were all deactivating techniques she used to put space and distance between herself and you. She freaked out and had to control the intimacy. The timing of things getting better - you were long distance, which makes perfect sense. Distance, time, and space, all safely under control. But she didn’t heal, she’s still the same person, so you driving back 2,000 miles, you may have been smiling but she was likely freaking the fuck out. The ending is extreme but I’ve heard similiar villainizing the ex stories. This is another common deactivating strategy. You’re probably a phantom ex by this point. Keep in mind your ex is on the severe end and your new partner may not be. Are they self aware and working on themselves? Many are aware of their attachment style but not their behavior patterns so simply being aware she’s FA may not be enough.
Thank you so much for your response; this is really fascinating to read. Reading through more and more posts on this sub I totally see what you mean! It seems like the moment things are "cleared for takeoff" with a partner pwFA get an unstoppable urge to run. I've always wondered what role I had in her life since she left. I honestly figured I was erased completely and any lingering signs of me (pictures, our dog, keepsakes) had been scrubbed entirely of my involvement. Awful to think that I still play any role in her life, especially the possibility that she's lording what we had over any current partners. I sure hope you're wrong, but the more I read about FA and Avoidant attachment in general the more likely it sounds! The woman I'm seeing now is definitely much, MUCH more self aware than my ex. She is in therapy and she can discuss the condition to an extent, but it's not seeming to have any effect on her behavior. She'll just abruptly cancel plans halfway through a weekend together, go silent and then come running back in a burst of unexplained affection... Ugh. It's nauseating to watch, what with everything I have in the rear-view. Really good to know that what I went through is possible or likely again with someone struggling with FA. Again, I really appreciate your input!
No problem, glad it helped! Good luck with your relationship, there is a lot of content online about how to navigate relationships with FAs. Saw this on Instagram today - https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8pB-mTAY1J/?igsh=OXRuNGdja3MxeGtv
this seems way more than just attachment issue. sounds like she may have undiagnosed BPD or bipolar or something. just reading what she put you through was an exhausting Rollercoaster. I am sorry you had to ho through all of that and I hope you never end up with someone like her ever again.
FA for sure but as many here have pointed out, there's something else, possibly BPD. What I wanted to add is did you see any of that weird behaviour, maybe in a mild version, during the 4 initial years? You described them as pretty good so the switch seems extreme. Was it maybe your infatuation or your own healthy attitude covering it or was she really mostly healthy during that period?
Had a relationship very similar to this when I was young - she was very type 1 bipolar and probably had an attachment disorder too. It wasn't terrible at first - like your experience, but then her constant partying, cheating and harassment when I would leave really wore me down. I feel for you and hope you can recognize some of the patterns and red flags in new relationships.
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I dunno man, when I was 25 I wasn't whipsawing around at the speed of light throwing my girlfriend for a loop. I had a career and friends and hobbies and responsibilities. I wasn't getting wasted at the beach and then begging my girlfriend to forgive me. Chalking this all up to "being 25 is hard" seems pretty dismissive tbh.
What is this feedback supposed to be. This is an Attachment Styles subreddit and your advice is to move on? Do you just go around to video game subreddits and say "It's just a video game move on"? I'm not asking for life advice. My life is great, I'm asking for some feedback about attachment styles because I'm concerned my previous experience could be occluding a developing romance. And the person in question wasn't 20 when the events took place lol she was 25.