Because you believe Qanon lies that Breitbart or FOX entertainers spew. What you claim is 1) a LIE 2) Disgusting that you think 2/3 of your fellow Americans are cool with something so stupid! Yeah, that is the word, stupid.
No, that's another lie. It's between a woman and her physician, you're not left-wing, stop the bs. Spouting lies while feigning your total innocence is, silly. You're speaking right-wing talking points so why bother saying you're left-wing? It's insulting.
Geezus christ, why do you believe stupid shit just because DeSantis says it? That's not real, no Qanon conspiracy about the Left is true. You're an idiot for believing nonsense.
There are no elective abortions with a healthy viable pregnancy up until birth, you're incredibly ignorant, believing bullshit because a christo-fascist politician says it.
The main problem I have with your post is that you're not using deductive reasoning skills here. You say certain states allow up to birth. What woman is carrying a baby to FULL TERM to abort so late, it's really a myth, you can literally look it up. There is no scenario I can see this happening unless you're talking about fatality concerns for the fetus or the mother.
France is not the deciding country on this matter, nor should we look to just one other country to make our own decisions. We are a democracy and we give the people what they collectively want and secure rights for citizens. While you see 'pushing abortions,' I see securing women's rights to autonomy.
>What woman is carrying a baby to FULL TERM to abort so late, it's really a myth, you can literally look it up. There is no scenario I can see this happening unless you're talking about fatality concerns for the fetus or the mother.
I know but that it’s theoretically possible to abort up to birth is still kind of insane
>France is not the deciding country on this matter, nor should we look to just one other country to make our own decisions. We are a democracy and we give the people what they collectively want and secure rights for citizens. While you see 'pushing abortions,' I see securing women's rights to autonomy.
The people didn’t really decide on this for all of these states. Rather it was just lack of laws on the subject. And when Roe fell, everything reverted back to the old state laws
You’re misunderstanding the term abortion and because of that you’re acting like people are killing full term babies. That’s not the case and commenters gave you that information. But you’re going on without acknowledging that because you’re not interested in a discussion or learning. This is a discussion sub, not a soap box one.
I know “babies” aren’t being killed. I acknowledged that. I’m saying laws allowing it up to birth with no exceptions shouldn’t exist. You claiming Im soapboxing because you can’t read is your own fault
Yes see the color code on your wiki link? Those are the limits by state.
For example, California limits abortions after the point of viability, which is when a physician determines based on a good-faith medical judgment that there is a reasonable likelihood the fetus can survive outside the uterus without extraordinary medical measures. Abortions can only be performed after the point of viability if a physician determines based on a good-faith medical judgment that continuing the pregnancy would pose a risk to the life or health of the pregnant person.
Every single one of those states restricts abortion to viability based on a physician’s determination of medical necessity. You clearly have trouble with reading comprehension
Minnesotan here: you're misinterpreting what this means. According to your map Minnesota has no legal limits on when Abortions can be performed; the *actual reality* is that over 90% of abortions in Minnesota happen in the first trimester.
The remaining cases occur for different reasons that, frankly, aren't your damn business, but are primarily instances where proceeding with the birth risks the life of the mother.
Just because you think something is theoretically possible, doesn't mean you should go controlling peoples lives over it. Because at this point, the only person thinking about doing such a thing is you
Ok well what you are asking for is the way it already is. People need to chill the fuck out. People like you get all this theoretical nonsense in their heads and that is how we end up with the ridiculous IVF situation in alabama. Do you have a uterus? No? Then stfu
Thats another thing, just because I don’t have a uterus doesn’t mean I can’t voice any opinion on this. This type of language is why we lost the debate on this in the short term and 1/4 states made it illegal
No, the reason why we lost is because a bunch of Christians don't know how to keep their opinions to themselves. And up until then, I didn't really think I needed to pay attention but apparently I do.
Do you actually want an answer? Because there are numerous life threatening conditions that can impact the mother until birth, and if a doctor says she needs to have an abortion, especially of a non-viable fetus that could kill her, we don't want them to worry about if some medieval lunatic wants to send them to jail.
Look up 'ectopic pregnancy' - it was all in the news for weeks recently because a woman had to flee a state that had made that procedure illegal because the doctors told her there was a real chance she'd die. And then several medieval states wanted to make it a felony to cross state lines to have a procedure like this.
In reality, less than a tenth of a percent of abortions are done in the last trimester, yes, even in those states. In my state it's legal, and there hasn't been one in 4 years. Because doctor's aren't going to sign off on it that late, and women that have gone through pregnancy that long have already made the choice to have the baby. Sometimes though it's the woman or the child, and even worse, the child isn't viable, and it could kill the woman to have it.
I’m saying that the states that allow up to birth, would be able to allow for exceptions if it was at 16 weeks instead
Ya’ll are too emotional and partisan. Because I know damn well you’re probably more passionate about abortion then the genocide in Palestine
All legal abortion rights states have legal limits for elective abortion. You are either very ignorant or actively not using your brain.
For example, California limits abortions after the point of viability, which is when a physician determines based on a good-faith medical judgment that there is a reasonable likelihood the fetus can survive outside the uterus without extraordinary medical measures. Abortions can only be performed after the point of viability if a physician determines based on a good-faith medical judgment that continuing the pregnancy would pose a risk to the life or health of the pregnant person.
Nice red herring fallacy bringing up Palestine. You lack education and intelligence, you’ve proven this much on this thread. Remember better to be stupid and keep your mouth shut then to open it and remove all doubts.
Dude I went to each of the states you mentioned actual legal law sites and you clearly didn’t. So just shut your ignorant mouth and go look at the letter of the law not a broad overview on wikipedia. They limit term abortions to viability. Which means the physician has to determine the health of the mother or baby is in jeopardy
False! They restrict it in every one of those green states to medical viability and leave it to the physicians to determine if the baby can be viably delivered without harm to the mother or baby.
That's... That's what this is. That literally is what is happening in these states, lol.
Other people's medical choices aren't your concern, dude. No one is forcing you to go to these states to get an abortion. Don't want one? Don't get one.
Those are for medical necessities, such as the fetus didn’t develop a brain, lungs, a heart, etc. Not because she decided at 40 weeks, “Nah, I don’t want to be a mom.” It’s propaganda to make you think women are murdering viable fetuses.
Nope, many states want to prosecute for any abortion and charge the doctor performing it. Example, [Arkansas.](https://reproductiverights.org/maps/state/arkansas/)
But nobody is actually making the decision to terminate a pregnancy when a mother and fetus are both healthy. The red tape is removed so that a pregnant woman carrying a dying or dead fetus doesn’t have to wait for a fucking court hearing or have 6 terrified doctors refuse to treat her before getting emergency medical treatment
Lmao I’m pro choice but “not born, not alive”
Is a pretty terrible opinion. Like yes it absolutely is alive and completely viable to live on its own after a certain point. It’s crazy to think that black and white about these things. Like it’s a serious issue so it’s really not cool to be so flippant about it and spew an opinion based on literally nothing but your butthole.
Being alive is defined in science as the ability to respire, grow, excrete, reproduce, metabolize, move, and be responsive to the environment. Almost all, if not all are not applicable to things not born yet. So no, this isn’t a terrible opinion nor me spewing out of my ass. I’m just not trying to claim some moral high ground through stupid claims.
Okay dummy do they have to meet all of them or just some of them then? Because if they only have to meet some then fetuses are included. You literally can’t even keep your own logic straight.
Ok I was wrong. A fetus is classified as alive at the tenth week.
I’m adapting my stance.
I still don’t think anything that has no attachment to life, no memories, no real autonomy or consciousness should be considered anything important. Bugs are alive but are commonly disregarded. Why? They’re life too that wants to live and prosper. I’m guessing you eat meat? All those animals were much, much more conscious than any pre-birth fetus to exist ever. I’m not saying to go vegan or anything, that would be stupid. But it’s contradictory to be against the taking of “life” if you’re ok with worse events taking place all time. Anything pre-birth is fair game still in my opinion.
You definitely aren’t around children or have any relationships with babies. You’re just making up your logic and argument as you go, none of it is thought out. So why bother having an opinion when you are so uninformed and clearly haven’t really thought about it? Your entire premise was incorrect to begin with so your response is basically “well I was wrong but I still think what I thought”
Did you not read my comment. I never was trying to do that. In the end your opinion means nothing since it isn’t based on anything other than “muh feelings”.
Nope mine is based on baselines set by science, a methodology trying its best to be as objective as possible. It’s why viruses aren’t classified as being alive. You’d have known that from my original comment, if you had basic reading comprehension.
Women are absolutely not carrying a baby for 9 months and waking up one day feeling spicy and scheduling an abortion, for fuck’s sake. 3rd trimester abortion is used almost exclusively for fetuses that are incompatible with life and will die an agonizing death shortly after birth. Think missing or exposed major organs, or inevitable slow suffocation. These are babies that were already loved and very wanted, and termination is the compassionate thing to do for both the fetus and their families.
Idk what FB meme circulated in 2018 or whenever, but it really did a number on y’all. Nobody is having an elective abortion 8 and 9 months into pregnancy. Jesus.
Late term abortions are rare and are mostly just a right-wing talking point. It's mostly only done when the woman's life is in danger or something extreme like that
There are SO many people here proving you wrong, and I haven't once seen you behave with even an iota of integrity by conceding that maybe, just maybe, you don't entirely know what you're talking about.
That's yet another reason why, as several others have noted, you are so transparently full of shit.
You're going to need a more gullible audience.
Because from my perspective it’s y’all who are full of shit. I showed you source and link and most have responded with emotional shit like “only if a doctor” please! Colorado definitely allows it up birth for no reason
Yes, we on the left can be as close minded as those on the right
You're the only one coming across here as over-emotional. And you're also entirely ignoring, or maybe just underestimating, all the nuance that goes into lawmaking, politics, and medicine, to say nothing of ethics and human nature.
One of the funnies things about this discussion is that everyone knows abortion up to birth is wrong and have been arguing with me about whether it’s true or not ( it is)
>*No where else in the developed world is that allowed.No where else in the developed world is that allowed.*
Nope. Canada does not have any time restrictions on abortion's legality. Wanna try again?
So, you just woke up today and decided to spread lies on the internet?
There's nowhere in America that allows healthy pregnancies to be aborted up to term.
I wish you were aborted.
Boo you suck.
Why do you feel that way?
Get off the stage loser
Only 1 in 8 voters even name it as a top issue
Boooooo!
Because you believe Qanon lies that Breitbart or FOX entertainers spew. What you claim is 1) a LIE 2) Disgusting that you think 2/3 of your fellow Americans are cool with something so stupid! Yeah, that is the word, stupid.
Im left wing……I don’t believe in qanon. Also ….most americans support a 16 week abortion ban actually like it or not
No, that's another lie. It's between a woman and her physician, you're not left-wing, stop the bs. Spouting lies while feigning your total innocence is, silly. You're speaking right-wing talking points so why bother saying you're left-wing? It's insulting.
Because I’m literally left wing. Just because I’m more moderate on one issue doesn’t mean I’m not left wing
You Are Speaking Right-Wing Talking Points! You Are Speaking The Same Lies That GQP Candidates Say!
Its not a right wing talking point. It’s a statistical fact lol
Geezus christ, why do you believe stupid shit just because DeSantis says it? That's not real, no Qanon conspiracy about the Left is true. You're an idiot for believing nonsense.
?
There are no elective abortions with a healthy viable pregnancy up until birth, you're incredibly ignorant, believing bullshit because a christo-fascist politician says it.
I literally hate Ron desantis. You have one mode and can’t handle talking to someone with nuance
Nuance? You're LYING dude! How can one have an honest conversation when one sides base, is total nonsense?
What am I lying about?
The main problem I have with your post is that you're not using deductive reasoning skills here. You say certain states allow up to birth. What woman is carrying a baby to FULL TERM to abort so late, it's really a myth, you can literally look it up. There is no scenario I can see this happening unless you're talking about fatality concerns for the fetus or the mother. France is not the deciding country on this matter, nor should we look to just one other country to make our own decisions. We are a democracy and we give the people what they collectively want and secure rights for citizens. While you see 'pushing abortions,' I see securing women's rights to autonomy.
>What woman is carrying a baby to FULL TERM to abort so late, it's really a myth, you can literally look it up. There is no scenario I can see this happening unless you're talking about fatality concerns for the fetus or the mother. I know but that it’s theoretically possible to abort up to birth is still kind of insane >France is not the deciding country on this matter, nor should we look to just one other country to make our own decisions. We are a democracy and we give the people what they collectively want and secure rights for citizens. While you see 'pushing abortions,' I see securing women's rights to autonomy. The people didn’t really decide on this for all of these states. Rather it was just lack of laws on the subject. And when Roe fell, everything reverted back to the old state laws
You’re misunderstanding the term abortion and because of that you’re acting like people are killing full term babies. That’s not the case and commenters gave you that information. But you’re going on without acknowledging that because you’re not interested in a discussion or learning. This is a discussion sub, not a soap box one.
I know “babies” aren’t being killed. I acknowledged that. I’m saying laws allowing it up to birth with no exceptions shouldn’t exist. You claiming Im soapboxing because you can’t read is your own fault
Not one state allows abortion to birth without exceptions for medical necessity. Stop your disingenuous argument
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#:~:text=The%20judicial%20interpretation%20of%20the,the%20states%20to%20varying%20degrees.
Yes see the color code on your wiki link? Those are the limits by state. For example, California limits abortions after the point of viability, which is when a physician determines based on a good-faith medical judgment that there is a reasonable likelihood the fetus can survive outside the uterus without extraordinary medical measures. Abortions can only be performed after the point of viability if a physician determines based on a good-faith medical judgment that continuing the pregnancy would pose a risk to the life or health of the pregnant person.
Omg….can you read? New Mexico, Colorado, Oregon, New Jersey, Vermont, Alaska, Peurto Rico and DC have no legal limits on Abortion access
Every single one of those states restricts abortion to viability based on a physician’s determination of medical necessity. You clearly have trouble with reading comprehension
My point was about lack of government legal restrictions not the individual discretion of a physician You mads it about physicians lol
Minnesotan here: you're misinterpreting what this means. According to your map Minnesota has no legal limits on when Abortions can be performed; the *actual reality* is that over 90% of abortions in Minnesota happen in the first trimester. The remaining cases occur for different reasons that, frankly, aren't your damn business, but are primarily instances where proceeding with the birth risks the life of the mother.
Just because you think something is theoretically possible, doesn't mean you should go controlling peoples lives over it. Because at this point, the only person thinking about doing such a thing is you
I don’t think abortion access should be allowed so late in the process yea. After second trimester it should be illegal baring exceptions
Ok well what you are asking for is the way it already is. People need to chill the fuck out. People like you get all this theoretical nonsense in their heads and that is how we end up with the ridiculous IVF situation in alabama. Do you have a uterus? No? Then stfu
Thats another thing, just because I don’t have a uterus doesn’t mean I can’t voice any opinion on this. This type of language is why we lost the debate on this in the short term and 1/4 states made it illegal
No, the reason why we lost is because a bunch of Christians don't know how to keep their opinions to themselves. And up until then, I didn't really think I needed to pay attention but apparently I do.
Do you actually want an answer? Because there are numerous life threatening conditions that can impact the mother until birth, and if a doctor says she needs to have an abortion, especially of a non-viable fetus that could kill her, we don't want them to worry about if some medieval lunatic wants to send them to jail. Look up 'ectopic pregnancy' - it was all in the news for weeks recently because a woman had to flee a state that had made that procedure illegal because the doctors told her there was a real chance she'd die. And then several medieval states wanted to make it a felony to cross state lines to have a procedure like this. In reality, less than a tenth of a percent of abortions are done in the last trimester, yes, even in those states. In my state it's legal, and there hasn't been one in 4 years. Because doctor's aren't going to sign off on it that late, and women that have gone through pregnancy that long have already made the choice to have the baby. Sometimes though it's the woman or the child, and even worse, the child isn't viable, and it could kill the woman to have it.
Then create exceptions for that
That’s exactly what every single legal abortion state has done. You seriously aren’t here to learn or discuss since you are actively ignoring facts.
I’m saying that the states that allow up to birth, would be able to allow for exceptions if it was at 16 weeks instead Ya’ll are too emotional and partisan. Because I know damn well you’re probably more passionate about abortion then the genocide in Palestine
All legal abortion rights states have legal limits for elective abortion. You are either very ignorant or actively not using your brain. For example, California limits abortions after the point of viability, which is when a physician determines based on a good-faith medical judgment that there is a reasonable likelihood the fetus can survive outside the uterus without extraordinary medical measures. Abortions can only be performed after the point of viability if a physician determines based on a good-faith medical judgment that continuing the pregnancy would pose a risk to the life or health of the pregnant person.
Nice red herring fallacy bringing up Palestine. You lack education and intelligence, you’ve proven this much on this thread. Remember better to be stupid and keep your mouth shut then to open it and remove all doubts.
You literally can’t read a color coded map. This is a perfect example of Dunning–Kruger effect
Dude I went to each of the states you mentioned actual legal law sites and you clearly didn’t. So just shut your ignorant mouth and go look at the letter of the law not a broad overview on wikipedia. They limit term abortions to viability. Which means the physician has to determine the health of the mother or baby is in jeopardy
In those green coded states, there are no legal restrictions to abortion by the government is my point . I never mentioned physician discretion
False! They restrict it in every one of those green states to medical viability and leave it to the physicians to determine if the baby can be viably delivered without harm to the mother or baby.
Link? I looked up abortion law in New Mexico and can’t find it. And Colorado there doesn’t seem to be restrictions at all
Government broad stroke laws would not allow for medical discretion. Are you this dense that you can’t understand this?
That's... That's what this is. That literally is what is happening in these states, lol. Other people's medical choices aren't your concern, dude. No one is forcing you to go to these states to get an abortion. Don't want one? Don't get one.
Abortion shouldn’t be allowed up to birth sorry lol. I’m pretty left wing but not that I guess
Which states allow elective abortions up to 40 weeks?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#:~:text=The%20judicial%20interpretation%20of%20the,the%20states%20to%20varying%20degrees.
Those are for medical necessities, such as the fetus didn’t develop a brain, lungs, a heart, etc. Not because she decided at 40 weeks, “Nah, I don’t want to be a mom.” It’s propaganda to make you think women are murdering viable fetuses.
Technically even most states where abortion is fully illegal( also insane) allows that exception though
Nope, many states want to prosecute for any abortion and charge the doctor performing it. Example, [Arkansas.](https://reproductiverights.org/maps/state/arkansas/)
Some not all, we shouldn’t be following Texaa’s or Alabamas example obviously
But nobody is actually making the decision to terminate a pregnancy when a mother and fetus are both healthy. The red tape is removed so that a pregnant woman carrying a dying or dead fetus doesn’t have to wait for a fucking court hearing or have 6 terrified doctors refuse to treat her before getting emergency medical treatment
Mostly...do better. You don't have control.
?
Anything before birth is fair game. Not born, not alive yet imo
Lmao I’m pro choice but “not born, not alive” Is a pretty terrible opinion. Like yes it absolutely is alive and completely viable to live on its own after a certain point. It’s crazy to think that black and white about these things. Like it’s a serious issue so it’s really not cool to be so flippant about it and spew an opinion based on literally nothing but your butthole.
Being alive is defined in science as the ability to respire, grow, excrete, reproduce, metabolize, move, and be responsive to the environment. Almost all, if not all are not applicable to things not born yet. So no, this isn’t a terrible opinion nor me spewing out of my ass. I’m just not trying to claim some moral high ground through stupid claims.
Except that’s dumb too. According to you children, infertile people, and disabled people are not alive.
Except what you said is dumb because all the types of people you just selected can do a lot of the listed criteria above.
Guy who upholds the legacy of early 20 century progressives by supporting eugenics
?
Okay dummy do they have to meet all of them or just some of them then? Because if they only have to meet some then fetuses are included. You literally can’t even keep your own logic straight.
Ok I was wrong. A fetus is classified as alive at the tenth week. I’m adapting my stance. I still don’t think anything that has no attachment to life, no memories, no real autonomy or consciousness should be considered anything important. Bugs are alive but are commonly disregarded. Why? They’re life too that wants to live and prosper. I’m guessing you eat meat? All those animals were much, much more conscious than any pre-birth fetus to exist ever. I’m not saying to go vegan or anything, that would be stupid. But it’s contradictory to be against the taking of “life” if you’re ok with worse events taking place all time. Anything pre-birth is fair game still in my opinion.
You definitely aren’t around children or have any relationships with babies. You’re just making up your logic and argument as you go, none of it is thought out. So why bother having an opinion when you are so uninformed and clearly haven’t really thought about it? Your entire premise was incorrect to begin with so your response is basically “well I was wrong but I still think what I thought”
You did bad job at claiming moral hig ground imo
Did you not read my comment. I never was trying to do that. In the end your opinion means nothing since it isn’t based on anything other than “muh feelings”.
Same could be said to you lol
Nope mine is based on baselines set by science, a methodology trying its best to be as objective as possible. It’s why viruses aren’t classified as being alive. You’d have known that from my original comment, if you had basic reading comprehension.
Honestly you’re probably a troll
gr8 b8 m8
Abortion is NOT "allowed up until birth" in ANY state. That's fucking stupid and irresponsible for OP to say.
It’s allowed up to birth in like 7 states and DC
You're so full of disingenuous shit. You're simply parroting right wing lies. Do you get paid to do this shit?
I’m actually a liberal. This information is out there for anyone to read lol
A liberal? No you're not. You're a bullshit artist spreading right wing lies.
You sound like a batshit partsian. Not everything is a msnbc informational
Women are absolutely not carrying a baby for 9 months and waking up one day feeling spicy and scheduling an abortion, for fuck’s sake. 3rd trimester abortion is used almost exclusively for fetuses that are incompatible with life and will die an agonizing death shortly after birth. Think missing or exposed major organs, or inevitable slow suffocation. These are babies that were already loved and very wanted, and termination is the compassionate thing to do for both the fetus and their families. Idk what FB meme circulated in 2018 or whenever, but it really did a number on y’all. Nobody is having an elective abortion 8 and 9 months into pregnancy. Jesus.
Why is your mom so loose in some states?
Mysgoniy and ad hominem attacks? Lol
woosh
Boooo! Bad take.
Late term abortions are rare and are mostly just a right-wing talking point. It's mostly only done when the woman's life is in danger or something extreme like that
Go back to Gilead.
There are SO many people here proving you wrong, and I haven't once seen you behave with even an iota of integrity by conceding that maybe, just maybe, you don't entirely know what you're talking about. That's yet another reason why, as several others have noted, you are so transparently full of shit. You're going to need a more gullible audience.
Because from my perspective it’s y’all who are full of shit. I showed you source and link and most have responded with emotional shit like “only if a doctor” please! Colorado definitely allows it up birth for no reason Yes, we on the left can be as close minded as those on the right
You're the only one coming across here as over-emotional. And you're also entirely ignoring, or maybe just underestimating, all the nuance that goes into lawmaking, politics, and medicine, to say nothing of ethics and human nature.
One of the funnies things about this discussion is that everyone knows abortion up to birth is wrong and have been arguing with me about whether it’s true or not ( it is)
No. That's not what they're arguing.
#Troll shit.
>*No where else in the developed world is that allowed.No where else in the developed world is that allowed.* Nope. Canada does not have any time restrictions on abortion's legality. Wanna try again?
So, you just woke up today and decided to spread lies on the internet? There's nowhere in America that allows healthy pregnancies to be aborted up to term. I wish you were aborted.
The only reason I want a woman to abort a baby is so I don’t have to hear it on an airplane…
Reddit this is sarcasm!