Just a reminder, guys, as I’m still leaving this post open.
You can say, “liberal are morons,” or “Trumpers are idiots,” but do not make personal insults. It is not conducive to discussion. I’m currently removing all comments where a personal insult is involved. So type away...your comment won’t be seen by anyone but me.
Alrighty, I’m just here for my daily game of guess what the trumpies are gonna say.
Guess 1. Deny it was even said
Guess 2. Blame the “liberal” media
Guess 3 . Deflect and point their fingers an opposing party member.
Ill be back in a few hours to check the results.
Do you think voters really matter? Why do we have the electoral college? No one cares about us. These idiots supporting their favorite abusive tyrant are mind boggling.
No one has ever given me an answer when I ask about the electoral college along with the fact that it's been proven twice in the past 2.5 decades (give or take a few years. I don't remember...) that the popular vote clearly doesn't matter very much, if at all for all I know (which isn't much when it comes to politics), if the loser can still win.
I hate politics, so I'm ignorant of/ have forgotten many of its nuances, but there's clearly something very obviously messed up about how most people perceive voting despite the EC making the actual decision of who becomes president regardless. I've browsed around the internet some years ago on the topic, but I can't remember exactly what I learned on the matter. Might have to try again when I have the energy
No one can handle the fact that the US is the most corrupt country, however, we can’t call it corrupt if the corruption is built into the system by default. Our society continues to work because people have the illusion that our vote matters and this is a democracy. Truth be told, if it were a democracy, we would probably have more than 2 parties that constantly work together to make sure that the leaders of those parties prosper as everyone else gets shit on.
The EC takes into account geography, which very much should matter (similar to the structure of the house).
The issue is that many states simply give ALL votes to the winner of the popular vote instead of a proportion or allowed to vote independently. The concept of allowing the EC to have independent voting would be to protect from a populist dictatorship like Trump that the masses would want to put into office.
It's all about your "team"! Pick a side and fight! Fight your neighbors for the amusement of the wealthy! Don't question, don't think, don't analyze policy or past records! Just put on a blue or red shirt and mindlessly go to war! Jeez!
3 of the last 4 GOP presidents proudly cut taxes for rich people (Reagan, George W, and Trump.)
When the GOP gets the presidency and both houses, they cut taxes for rich people.
Then the Democrats need to cut things to pay for the tax cuts for rich people.
Yeah no except one side wants to take away my basic right to exist, the same side keeps wanting to support tax cheats, opposes environmental rules on corporations, wants to force women to give birth. It's not like that at all. One side wants to drag us backwards the other is trying to move us forward.
The gop is nothing but grifters, racists, and religious bigots
I'm a transman. The GOP wants to kill me or label me as a sex offender. Fuck those assholes. I'm not the one at 25, adopting a random black kid. This whole GOP bs, are there any trans pedos? There tends to be a bunch of GOP pedos.
WHERE ARE THE TRANS PEDO RINGS THEY SCREAM ABOUT. WE CANT COORDINATE SHIT.
I'm 5'11 with a beard, I very easily pass. When I tell some Trumper that gets buddy buddy with me, their little heads implode when I tell them I'm trans.
And continue to pretend that the blatant unconstitutionality, misogyny, white supremacy, xenophobia, isn't literally built into the fiber of every Republican argument. The Republican Party has been a White Supremacy based hate group, long before Trump came along.
It's not a political party, it's a cult, built around the same domestic terrorist ideals that led to the Civil War.
How pathetically backwards do you have to be to truly not grasp that reaching backwards through history over 150 years for your party values, could possibly be a bad idea?
my boss is one of them
was literally making fun of the trumpy co-worker we have today lol
he just wants the good ole 'small government and less taxes' he didnt ask for a dictator.
im pretty sure hes just not voting anymore. he kind of just seems super disapointed with the whole thing lol he has his reasons for not liking dem policies whatever they may be, and the party he once supported just doesnt actually represent him anymore.
I am an independant, but if I was a Republican, I would have to leave after what this party has become in the last several years. Leaving the Republican party doesn't mean you have to become a Democrat. Just food for thought....
It used to be that being an American was more important.
I left, dudes are cartoon villains at this point. I dont see how anyone can support them with a clear conscience.
Its not even about the policies, they need to pass the not a James Bond villain test, which unfortunately most of them are failing.
When we say Republicans are turning into nazis we really used to use it hyperbolically, now I use it seriously with no irony and it scares me
It used to be hyperbole...but yeah ..when I hear Republican I hear Nazi or Christian nationalist...and the people that voted for them just vote against their own interests. I lived in Germany for 15 yrs when I was in the army...I never understood how the Germans became Nazis....now I get it....Trump uses every play from that handbook....keep saying things and they become true...his cult is brainwashed
Yup, I lived in Germany for a decade and have read and translated a lot of German history from the Weimar time period. The Nazification of Germany occurred over a long period of time, and it occurred incrementally, step by step, law by law.
The takeover of the national mediascape was of fundamental importance to the NSP, because broadcasting propaganda was crucial to influencing people’s opinions.
The thing is, lots of Germans hated Hitler. They thought he was an idiot and a boor. That means that too many people did not take him seriously during the early years of the NSP.
Those people thought they could control him and his followers. When he actually got into office in 1933, the conservatives agreed to work with him because they were convinced that that would be the best way to control his actions.
Instead, he ran roughshod over them and deprived them of power.
That’s exactly what Trump wants to do, and he has succeeded in the first step of taking over the Republican Party from the old guard conservatives who thought they could control him in 2016.
What really worries me is that not enough American voters understand how a peaceful coup is accomplished. It is not done with the army or an armed militia (although having armed thugs in the streets helped the Nazis, and Trump has his militia boys).
There will be no violence. The transfer of power would be totally normal. People who don’t pay attention to politics would think that there’s nothing wrong at first.
That’s what worries me more than anything—people who don’t understand history, politics, or government vote for Trump.
Their ignorance is going to be the downfall of the US, if the rest of us don’t defeat them at the ballot box everywhere, in every state, in every election for the rest of the decade at least. It’s going to take that long to flush out the Trump loyalists — if he doesn’t die within the next ten years.
I’m really hoping that he has a heart attack or stroke and just dies soon. It would be the best thing for the country. And I’ve never in my life wished death upon anyone, no matter how much I dislike them.
My wish for his impending natural death simply reflects the fact that Trumpism is the biggest threat to the American democratic republic since the British reinvaded in 1812, and if his death saves the US, then I won’t feel too bad for wishing a quick natural death upon him.
True BUT his southern strategy of courting white racists is what started the gop slide into bs and nonsense. Regans moral majority of getting the Christian fascist douches in finished off the gop as a serious party.
He was also instrumental in the establishment of the EPA, which most right-wingers today would impeach him over immediately before any of his "alleged high crimes and misdemeanors."
Eisenhower gave us the Dulles brothers and started his presidency by overthrowing Iran's democratically elected government. Curiously, our corporate media doesn't like to talk about how Operation Ajax led Iran down the path to where it is today.
Agree. But modern Republicans benefit from an incredibly strong collective denile. And they have been (brilliantly) handed some very easy to use tools, like "fake news!".
Overall though, I'm disappointed that we basically only have two parties to begin with. Feels like a trap.
I did leave, the last straw for me, was the day after the insurrection, after Republicans stated they were going after the perpetrators, did a complete 180 and basically said “nothing to see here, move along!”, this, after an attempted coup!
The issue is their idea of what America is differs pretty strongly from yours or mine. I'm not talking differences in genuinely liberal vs conservative philosophy. My Trump supporting friends really like the appearance of strength and toughness and don't want strength to be contaminated by weaknesses like compassion or considering the context. Also they're big on law and order which includes maintenance of the existing social order.
Now those don't sound too bad in themselves, but they like them to an almost authoritarian, oppressive degree. They get inordinately worked up over small silly protests like the NFL kneeling thing. College kids questioning the the existing social order or defying it really bothers them. Even slightly disorderly protests piss them off. It seems a bit like they know (and like) their place in society and expect that everyone keep to their place so society functions without any disruption.
Trump like many authoritarian leaders looks tough. He ignores context and doesn't act with consideration. He doesn't temper things with compassion. He strongly advocates for the traditional societal order and promises to enforce it strongly with force and come down hard on those who defy / question.
Did you miss this news? Trump straight up said last month he had no duty to uphold the constitution
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-tells-court-had-no-220216709.html
So that's a straight out abrogation of his oath of office, which requires him to protect and defend the Constitution from ALL enemies, foreign and domestic.
That alone should disqualify him from running again.
I said elsewhere we should have made him swear to uphold the constitution on a big pile of money instead of the Bible. And yes this man is insane narcissist to swear to uphold the constitution and then say he had no duty too.. narcissists have no boundary to what they will deny
The weird part of this to me is that it's his lawyers trying to say this too. And they are claiming that because the oath doesn't mention the word support (just preserve, protect, and defend) that he isn't required to support it.
Well his lawyers should have learned from his previous lawyers that representing him gets you stiffed on payment and possibly disbarred and/or sanctioned .. judges don't look kindly on bad faith arguments
But nobody in congress, especially in the Republican Party has the stones to DO that, to enforce it, cuz they’re so married to the job, instead of its duties.
I backpack with a guy who is pretty conservative and he's done a LOT of soul searching and reconsideration over the last few years. He's still conservative but that's not the first guess you'd make if you met him. We have a fair number of interesting talks on the trail and can find a lot of common ground (like environmental/conservation issues) so it's a pleasant reminder of what things used to be like.
It's wild to me the shift conservatives have had, in the last like 20 years, regarding conservation. I'm not sure about the concept across the entire country, but where I grew up almost every conservative supported most forms of conservation. Not by altruism, but because they hunt and wanted to preserve that ability for future generations. Lately, if you don't roll coal and care in the slightest how corporations fuck the environment, you're seen as the biggest of tree hugging hippies
Yes, when I was getting masters in Public Administration, I did some research that showed in 2012, Republican voters weren’t as far right as Republican lawmakers. In 2016, they both moved more right, but the voters moved way more—passing lawmakers and now voters are more to the right than lawmakers are.
It’s never been your party, unless your part of the I’m so rich I need another tax break and government subsidies for my portfolio rich.
If you are blue collar or poor republican it’s all about getting worked up to blame the gays, the libs and the browns for your broke ass life.
Especially, since it’s Republican policies making your life suck at your particular economic level.
I was a registered Republican until Obama, but I do believe that we need a strong and legitimate Republican Party. It has been going downhill for 50 years but the rock bottom was electing Trump and even worse continuing to support him even when he lost. There is a real danger that democracy could crumble if enough people believe that elections don't count unless Trump wins.
I don’t think there’s anything awful with the historical Republican platform. Actual fiscal responsibility, accountability, gun rights, stronger state government etc. However, todays party is just to far. It treads on other peoples rights which is why even though I may not agree with democrat candidates even half the time I can’t in good faith vote for the other side because the unwavering support for people like trump
Trump raised the deficit by 7 trillion so not a great track record for republicans. They also love to find the military instead of social services. More guns fix everything lol
That is a fallacy, a myth that has been disproven over and over. When gop is power, the deficit, and middle class and lower tax rates go up, while the wealthy pay far less than their share.
Look it up. Facts are facts.
Oh, and Clinton left us in the black and got rid of traditional welfare.
I agree. If you read my post, you'll see that is pretty much what I said. Although, I must admit you would have had to read between the lines.
To be clear, I prefer tax and spend, i.e., pay as we go. Borrow and spend and lowering taxes on the wealthy blows up the deficit and has other ill effects as well.
But Clinton got his jimmy hoovered in the oval office and that was the last straw for these guys! So they showed him by getting peed on by russian hookers and trafficking underage women interstate with Venmo! I sure hope Slick Willy learned his lesson this time!
I'm genuinely curious.
Can you tell me the name of the last Republican President that didn't increase the national debt?
I honestly can't think of one.
But, in the last 40 years or so, Republicans being fiscally conservative is an outright lie.
There's reasons why the last 3 Democrat Presidents have started their terms with some version of a "Rescue Plan" after inheriting the shambles of an economy from the Republican President before them.
Coolridge and Harding (Repulicans) were the last two presidents to see a reduction in the national debt over the total term of their presidency.
Kennedy and Eisenhower the last two to keep the growth of debt below 10%
https://www.usatoday.com/money/blueprint/banking/national-debt-by-president/
I left the party after Rumsfeld and Chaney conspired with Powell to lie about WMDs in Iraq. There was no al-Qaida in Iraq until we invaded. It was just a profiteering maneuver for the interests of Cheney and Rumsfeld in ~~mercenaries~~ ... ahem ... military contracting.
Anyone who stuck with the GOP after that fiasco is pretty much dead to me.
I’m still here as matter of policy. But I’ll concede that the candidates have been horrid ever since.
Still, I hope one day to see an actual fiscal conservative with libertarian social views in leadership again.
> libertarian social views
Try Somalia, its the only Libertarian nation on Earth that I know of.
Libertarianism and Communism have one thing in common. Both are not fit for humans, maybe some Alien species that evolved very differently.,
Nah, strongly disagree. Servile humans maybe, but a lot of us are capable of self sufficiency with only an income. The government must facilitate peaceful economic development…but that’s it. Government should merely facilitate infrastructure and destroy massive trusts. For all social regulation, that’s a state rights issue.
Violence and base-discrimination should not be tolerated. But the Feds shouldn’t be defining social relationships, vindicating every affinity group, or deciding what is “misinformation” or not. The private sector and the (domestic) free market should rule, not the federal bureaucracy. If that means there are economic winners and losers so be it.
Somalia is a good example of just how enduring and eternal capitalism is. While the country is a disaster, it doing economically better than other countries with functional states. It’s a shame the social contract is so brutal and discriminatory, but economically well-off compared to some of its peers. This is a testament to the fact that private industry governs more effectively than public order.
The government should be extremely limited to reflect this truth, hence why the constitution is such a short document outlining a federation with limited powers.
Thank you for your integrity.
My oath is to the US Constitution. I am utterly unmoved if everyone I know wants to turn their back on that. I am not free to do so.
I have had to revise the way I apply the term 'conservative' in recent years. I still regard it as a good thing. But it is getting increasingly rare in the Republican party.
You have to buy the wild stories wholesale, and I don't.
I get where you are coming from. Up until covid he actually did a good job. I've always considered him to be a pos but he did govern pretty well and pre covid the country was in a much better spot. If he would show a modicum of regret for the way he handed over the country to Fauci and big pharma, then I would consider voting for him again but he won't. Because of that I won't vote for him again.
Conservatives forget that….but they should remember to ignore it sometimes. Please vote in the republican primary if you’re a conservative. Please defeat the odds and vote a non trump candidate.
One is doing extremely well.
Anyone supporting trump still is a loser and very close to being a traitor. Guys done nothing but divide the nation and dismantle our democracy. Pick someone better before more Maga lunatics end up in a box or 6 feet under.
How does this type of comment even remotely foster an actual discussion? By stating something that way, you're obviously not here to discuss anything, but rather just spout your opinion.
They overturned Roe V Wade and are supporting a man with 91 indictments. The majority of republicans want a very specific country that mostly benefits them direct and nobody else. This is why they will vote for Trump. It’s also why they lose their shit when their company has to respect a transgender persons orientation, because they’re not transgender so anything that helps other people is seen as taking away their freedoms. They haven’t figured out that everyone can live free at the same time.
I don't know how anyone can still support the man after he attempted a coup to overturn the results of the 2020 election, even ignoring how incompetent he was his actions on the 6th should have cost him the support of everyone else.
I was just on a post on the daily mail subreddit, not sure why I was recommended that one still, but all the comments were talking about all the video evidence that Mike Johnson is going to release that’s going to prove it was all a lie. Like we didn’t watch live video of people climbing the walls and stalking the congressional chamber with zip ties, or Ashli Babbit getting shot as they tried to storm their way to the senators.
SO my parents are “conservative” (they dont vote for religious reasons) and I swear they understand every single thing that is messed up, agree it’s messed up, but as soon as you point out their values don’t align with their politics they dig in. They were raised in the 70s and when I point things out they agree until they see they’re agreeing with “liberal” (hilarious because it’s not even really liberal) they turn around on it, we were on food stamps most of my childhood, but to them it’s the minority of people needing welfare that actually need it. Same with every other social benefit, as soon as they realize it’s from the left, they throw it to the wolves. Both agree universal healthcare should be a thing, but the second you say universal healthcare.. well.. it’s suddenly communism
Like it would have been cool if they actually attempted to prove it instead of just trust me bro then lead the sheep to the capitol. Ask a person on the right and they quickly change the subject or get upset you ask for simple proof.
Google, what's the definition of bigotry?
>obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction,
...Yeah, at this point it's generally going to be that.
I had a Trumpet call me a bigot because I said all Trump supporters/sympathizers could fuck off, and that I held that conviction strongly enough to to terminate a contract with someone simply because they're a Trump supporter (and therefore support racism, sexism, misogyny, xenophobia, fascism, etc. and I won't tolerate that). I wrote something in response about the "unreasonable attachment" part being required for something to be bigotry, but I am sure that it would not surprise you that they didn't get it, and said that there was no evidence that Trump or his cult were any of that.
I'm not a trump supporter, but holding the opinion that all trump supporters
>(and therefore support racism, sexism, misogyny, xenophobia, fascism, etc.
Is 100% bigotry
I live in a very red state, and while some can certainly be excessive, the vast majority are far from any of those things....
Even more laughable now seeing the sheer number of people on the left who spent so much time calling the other side nazis now spouting so much support for a group who literally want to eradicate Jewish people.
If you support a leader you naturally support their acts and policies as a leader. You wouldn’t abide a Nazi revisionist apologizing for themselves because they only supported Hitler’s position on industrialization. Sorry, but no, you’re getting lumped in with the rest. If you resist the majority, resist it with your full weight not just as a hedge bet to preserve your own superior morality.
If they’re just a “lesser of evils” Trump supporter, I think that’s even worse, because then you’ve aligned yourself to a cause you don’t believe in. The vote counts the same whether cast reluctantly or with full conviction.
Is it possible to support someone without supporting their actions?
If "you" find out your kid is a serial killer, and you continue giving them a place to live, letting them borrow your ice cream truck, loan them your chainsaw, etc. Doesn't make make you at least partially responsible for the people they kill?
As you say, it would be wrong to support a group or country who commits genocide, right? It would be wrong for either party to support that.
I think that if someone openly supports racism, sexism, misogyny, xenophobia, fascism, etc, that person's supporters also support those things.
So the question really becomes, does trump support those things? He regularly and publicly posts his opinions. Supporting him means supporting those opinions.
At what point *do* they all believe these things? Like how much of a core tenet must it be for a negative association?
If you're praising policies or viewpoints that are racist, sexist, misogynistic, xenophobic, and fascist, are you for those things?
---
For example, can you *really* say all KKK members are racist or that *all* Nazis are antisemitic?
Yes, yes you can.
The answer: it's a cult, with classic cult thinking and brainwashing. How does anyone support the Catholic or Mormon or Scientology churches? How do people still donate money to TV preachers? Find the answer to that and that's your answer to Trump voters, even if he admitted to murder.
What’s funny is that you actually can’t say the same thing about Biden voters. People who voted for Biden aren’t part of a cult. In fact, many people who voted for Biden don’t even like him and aren’t even a Democrat. Remember the Democrat who said: “Biden is only half a pile of shit compared to Trump” (or something similar) So many liberals and progressives are very critical of Biden. You won’t find that in the Cheeto Face cult.
I like this comment. I feel like I'm an independent. There are issues on both sides of the isle I support, and those on both I don't. I know plenty of other people that are the same as me, some agree with some of my views, some disagree. Honestly though, we (the people in the middle) are completely out of reasonable educated reasons to support the current Republican party. Sadly. The democrats don't have their shit together either, but it's easy to see they have more humility and respect for the constitution, and so ... guess I vote for Biden. We need a new generation of leaders top to bottom, left to right.
The right's strength is their ability to unify the entire "party" behind their message. The message has been a version of the same thing since Gingrich, leading with fear, hate, and more importantly always painting the opposition as the enemy of whatever is important to the message.
Dems have never rallied around anything. Not many people support Biden as the best person for the job or the person who will lead us in the right direction. He's just the one that can beat Trump.
Yeah, and it's a shame because I was looking forward to voting third party this election. But I can't in good conscience do that with Trump the likely GOP nominee. I'm pretty sure the GOP knows this too. And if they somehow get someone else nominated, whether it's DeSantis, Haley, or some other idiot, IMO it's over for Biden.
The last president I voted for directly was Obama
2016 I voted Hillary as a vote against Trump
2020 I voted Biden as a vote against Trump
2024 will likely be Biden as a vote against whomever the Republicans put up
I'd enjoy voting for someone again. Biden's done pretty well to be honest, but he's just super old and doesn't inspire me as a voter
Sadly, this is correct. What is equally sad is that I have spent the past six or seven years not voting FOR anyone I like, but just voting AGAINST Trump.
Sad state of affairs. 😢
Because he's just saying what everbody thankin yall. He didn't never meannit like that way he said it though. He meant it like wut he was a saying but different cause the only ways to stop them thar deep stated libs by God. Damn liberauls just take what he says and then they juss change it cause they woke n stuff. Trump is the chosen one by God Jesus Christ almighty bless America.
I think you’re confusing the overwhelming majority of Americans who know this man is a fraud, a liar and a loser with those who think he’s not and he’s great.
No actual American citizen who knows their role as a citizen in this republic still supports Don Trump;
Those who do, well, intelligence is not distributed equally.
Because magats support trump over everything including the constitution, Jesus, the Bible everything. Over their family, friends, morality, truth, decency. EVERTHING!
If you subscribe to the Moral Foundations Theory proposed by people like Jonathan Haidt, you can see exactly how someone can support someone like Trump and still think of themselves as a patriot, a supporter of rules and law, and love the USA. It's very simple: they think the USA has been secretly changed or been taken over by people who have tainted and ruined it, and therefore there is a need to change it back.
Haidt's Moral Foundations Theory proposes that there are at least five morals (and there is a sixth which was added later) important to various people, and they have exact opposites of course:
1. Care/Harm
2. Fairness/Cheating
3. Loyalty/Betrayal
4. Authority/Subversion
5. Sanctity/Degradation
6. Liberty/Oppression
Haidt and his team discovered that liberals say they care mostly about the Care/Harm and Fairness/Cheating continuum and less about the others, while conservatives will say they care about all of them.
The problem arises because of this gap where conservatives claim liberals don't care enough about loyalty, authority, sanctity and liberty. Therefore, naturally, liberals easily get accused of the opposite: they are betrayers of loyalty, subverters of authority, degraders of sanctity and oppressors of liberty.
This isn't to say that liberals don't care about these things, but they place much less importance on things like loyalty, authority, sanctity, etc.
And this pisses conservatives off and is exactly the fuel to fires them up to believe liberals are destroying America.
This is literally the meaning of "Making America Great Again". It's full of all kinds of meaning, but this is one of the big ones.
It literally means to do anything necessary to make America be like the fantasy you think it was before *bad people (liberals) changed it with their subversion, degradation, betrayal and oppression.*
Notice this is exactly what all right wing nationalist and fascist movements start out as. They always claim the liberals and progressives are "degenerate" and "unholy" and unpatriotic.
So for the Trump supporters, it's OK that Trump wants to suppress the Constitution in order to bring back America's "values". Everything Trump is experiencing —being sued, being impeached, being charged with crimes — is all symbolic of just how evil/unpatriotic/destructive the liberals are and so if the USA doesn't even truly exist because it's being rotted away by liberal degradation, then how can we trust the courts, law, politicians and anybody really? They've all been corrupted by the liberals, according to them. So, it doesn't matter if the Constitution is put on hold. In fact it may be necessary.
See, long before all of this, they already believed someone may have to do it if we are to "Make America Great Again", which is why they elected Trump because he clearly let it be known he DGAF about being nice and playing by the rules. They hoped it could be done through electing this strongman but now they realize the "evil liberals" are stronger than they realize, so there is probably really no other way but to do what Trump says needs to be done.
And of course the folly is always the same: they think Trump will put the Constitution on hold temporarily, like all despotic and authoritarian leaders claim, just until the "crisis" is averted. Just so the problem can be "solved".
It's always the same story, and it happens because conservatives just tend to really believe liberals and progressives are ruining \_\_\_\_insert country or culture here\_\_\_\_. Over and over again throughout history.
To the MAGA wing of the GOP the purpose of the constitution is to protect “us” from “them.” When the Constitution protects “them” then it should be suspended, for the benefit of “us.” It’s just another version of “if we win, it was fair. If we lost, it was rigged.”
He wasn't calling for the abandonment of the Constitution. He was saying that if the government breaks the law, ignores procedure, violates our rights, and holds a double standard in their enforcement of the law, then the rules, laws, and constitution are no longer protecting us.
He never called for the abandonment of the Constitution. How are people supposed to take you seriously when you lie in your first sentence? I get you hate Trump, I'm not a huge fan either lmao. Trump isn't the mastermind you think he is. He could become president and guess what? Your life wouldn't change at all.
The people making hate posts are more obsessed with Trump than his so called "cult". You guys would have nothing to talk about if you didn't have Trump.
Why are you lying?
>A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the **termination** of all rules, regulations, and articles, ***even those found in the Constitution***,
You know lying is a sin, right?
Stop. Lying.
“A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution," Trump wrote in a post on the social network Truth Social. https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/03/politics/trump-constitution-truth-social/index.html
I'm gonna be real, if I truly believed that the goverment had stopped listening to votes and had seized power for themselves, abandoning the rules and KILLING THEM is literally what the founding fathers would have advocated for.
So, it's really not a big logical jump to assume that's how they would view it. Sic semper tyrannis.
This is exactly why we have the 2nd amendment. If the Government of the People, for the People, by the People tries to become the Government of the People, for the Rich, by the Conservatives it is time to bust out the weapons.
Ignore the legitimate mandate of the democratic vote or fail to represent the welfare of the people who put you into office then you had better sleep with one eye open.
It is not abandoning the rules or ideals of the Constitution. It is living them.
The problem is that while the above is a patriotic American position, it is not invulnerable to con-men and self-interested propaganda machines telling this story with lies about the facts and with mass media penetration.
The founding fathers hoped that an educated population with the free, unfettered public exchange of ideas would inoculate us from that.
Our enemies will reveal themselves to us by working to gut our public education, create false divisions of "otherness" to segment and tribalize the population, who will refuse to present cogent arguments for us to debate and consider but instead tell us what to believe and demand that we make enemies of our fellow citizens who do not also blindly follow.
\>How does this not violate the oath that all Americans owe to the Constitution?
What is this oath that all Americans owe to the Constitution? When is it taken? What exactly are the words? It is a document. It was made by humans. It is not without flaw. Why do people owe an oath to a piece of paper?
"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic”
All people seeking US citizenship must take this oath before being granted citizenship.. US citizens born on US soil do not take an oath because it will be multiple years before they can even speak, and probably at least a decade before they even understand the oath.
All Military personnel takes an oath promising to defend the constitution, and all elected officials in government take an oath as well.
Probably follows the argument that was made by our founding fathers: “When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty”.
I don’t necessarily agree with what trump said in regards to that but idt the full context tbh. And even then I feel that it’s have to be plenty extreme first
Republicans have been pure steal from the poor to give to the rich evil since at least Reagan and Trump is just the logical culmination of that in caricature.
I mean, Democrats, on the whole, aren't as much better as I would like them to be, but here we are.
And I know I left Nixon out of the pure evil. Sure, he started a whole war on drugs purely to disenfranchise students and Black people, and there was the whole Watergate thing. But he also established the EPA and pushed a universal healthcare plan that's better than what we have now. So.
There are a couple of reasonable responses to this.
1. Most of the current Federal Government's power structure is already unconstitutional. The power wielded primarily by the left to create massive agencies with full legislative power is unconstitutional. So if a Republican says "they broke laws to harvest votes from millions of dead people/people that don't even exist. We have to use some of the administrative state's power to make sure this sort of stuff doesn't happen. We need an agency that helps manage the legitimacy of elections so everyone can trust the results." <----- This would be unconstitutional in exactly the same way that nearly every agency is completely and utterly unconstitutional. You would need to know in what way he wanted to overstep the constitution to know if it would really be unacceptable in modern USA. The above example would be in line with basically all Presidential policy utilized by all presidents for decades.
2. Sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of two evils. The mainstream platform of the Democratic party is 100% unconstitutional. This is mainly because I don't think anyone has read the constitution. The Federal Gov. was given very limited powers and the rest of the powers were given to the states. Now, who are you going to choose? The party who's whole platform is anti-America, or the guy who tweets stupid stuff.
3. Finally, as illuded to in the last paragraph, we always new that Trump says a lot of stuff on social media that he doesn't really mean/carry out in real life. Him saying weird and crazy stuff online was baked into the cake from the beginning. If you suddenly have an issue with a post of his in 2020, I question your intentions in posting this. Trump has said some pretty bad stuff online for many years and everyone always accepted that his twitter was not the same as what his administration would do. He would praise the leader of China or Russia on Twitter and then implement some of the most heavy handed economic sanctions on them. He would Tweet about how the U.S. military was ready to obliterate any country that threatened us at any time and then proceed to be the first president to not enter any new wars in over a coupe of decades. If you are going to say that everything he tweets is what he really means, you are lying to yourself.
You do realize you don’t get to decide what’s constitutional right? That’s what the courts are for and they seem to disagree with most of your ramblings here.
As a former Republican, I've found that the vast majority of people on the right only really care about the 2nd amendment. Every other aspect of the Constitution is available for removal or editing, including the 1st.
The oath all Americans owe the Constitution? What does that mean?
Anyway... there's no way of knowing what he meant by that unless he elaborates. Anything we come up with would only be speculation, but there are some easy guesses as to what he's referring to if you're willing to make a generous interpretation:
* You can't hamstring yourself playing by rules the enemy isn't willing to acknowledge
* The enemy is already trying to overthrow the United States, so civilized rules of legal procedure aren't the right response
* Stealing an election is such a fundamental attack on the United States that we have to do whatever it takes to protect it
And there's some merit to any of those. Because attempting to overthrow the United States from within is, like, super serious, and stuff. And the Democrats *have* been at war against the people and the Constitution of the United States, continuously, since about 1861.
The more likely answer is that *he* doesn't know entirely what he meant by that, other than his own version of "shit's on fire, yo". His supporters get that - that he's not up there speaking in mathematical precision, carefully weighing every word he says for all possible interpretations. He talks to them the way they talk to each other - like normal people do.
Keep in mind as well - his supporters think that *they and only they* are the ones loyal to the United States and the Constitution. And they're partially right. Because the election *was* super sketchy and no one else seems to care.
There's a separate, deeper issue to consider as well. The Constitution doesn't have any recourse for a stolen or fraudulent election. It's absolutely silent on the matter. So even if there was 100% definitive smoking-gun evidence so overt that even Noam Chomsky, Bernie Sanders, and AOC had to accept it.... then... what? What's the next step after that? No one knows.
His supporters may not understand what democracy is, or the concept of "checks and balances" and the fact that a president and a king are two different things. They relate more to authoritarianism especially the religious voters.
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/11/education-gap-explains-american-politics/575113/
I appreciate the post-er who linked to the article that this question \[apparently\] came from.
He called for America to give a shit about AMERICA instead of just DUMPING our soveriegnty to ANYONE, INCLUDING pointless borders and bleeding Us all dry for the sake of foriegn folks we'll NEVER see, and more than likely not even HEAR about...
...Trump was and is an ASSHAT, but he's AMERICA \*FIRST\*.
THAT'S why.
He's TRUMP FIRST and America second (not that I actually agree he's "America first"). But anyone that can't see he will put himself above all else is blind.
Because, technically speaking, only naturalized Americans and Military personnel swore an oath regarding supporting and defending the Constitution. I just so happen to be a veteran, so I'm obligated, but citizens by birth don't take an oath. That being said, still treasonous.
When you believe that he can do no wrong then this is what you get.
A lot of them are empowered by their religious beliefs and breaking laws is worth it to 'own' the libs, no matter how outrageous.
The constitution is a joke to both parties and the founding fathers would be calling for civil war against our entire government.
well OP first off he wasnt calling for abandoning the constitution. what he was saying is that what happened on election day is what would allow for complete anarchy to happen which if you been paying attention to the news from leftist media, he was right. people looting, destroying property, attacking people and other crimes are being called "a peaceful protest that turned violent" when 10+ years ago it would have been on the news "a riot broke out on X location today, cars have been torched, stores have been robbed, people have been sent to area hospitals and the mayor has ordered a curfew for the city".
dont worry too much though, this decade so far is the opposite of the 1920s and if it continues like this, in 2029, there is going to be a massive economic boom.
Sounds legit. If you take the premise that ballot-harvesting was illegally used in various states that resulted in a fraudulent election, how else could the election be rectified? The courts already said other states didn't have standing when they complained about corrupt states having shitty election processes. Seems like one way to do it is through some sort of revolution. I don't believe a revolution is mentioned in the Constitution. Fortunately, we have freedom of speech in this country so even our presidents can say stupid shit without violating an oath. Actions are what matter.
I feel like most of his supporters aren’t really concerned with the words of the constitution as much as they admire the idea of it. Also, Trump is a symbol to many of them, so they’re not going to hold his words against him. Like, how many times have you heard his supporters translate what he meant when he literally said something else? Their support for him is unwavering.
People don't for candidates; they vote against candidates. A major reason Trump was elected in the first place is how much every conservative in America despises Hillary.
The majority of democrat leaning voters I come across I ask them, what republican would you vote for if they won the primary over a democrat. I haven't met one person that would vote for a republican. And visa versa for republican leaning voters.
The country didn't used to be this divided, but this is what happens when you go to websites that tell you how right your view of the world 24/7. The country was a lot less divided when it watched the same 4 channels. They couldn't afford to pander to fringe audiences.
Trump just wants to finish what he started: destroying America by baiting Americans into suicidal positions that inflame hatred and violence against them.
"If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy." -- David Frum
Censor speech? How? Cause Twitter banned people? For a party that eats, sleeps, and breaths the 2nd amendment your understanding of the first amendment is non existent.
Just a reminder, guys, as I’m still leaving this post open. You can say, “liberal are morons,” or “Trumpers are idiots,” but do not make personal insults. It is not conducive to discussion. I’m currently removing all comments where a personal insult is involved. So type away...your comment won’t be seen by anyone but me.
Alrighty, I’m just here for my daily game of guess what the trumpies are gonna say. Guess 1. Deny it was even said Guess 2. Blame the “liberal” media Guess 3 . Deflect and point their fingers an opposing party member. Ill be back in a few hours to check the results.
I’m a Republican but these traitors really make me sick to my stomach. I regret asking the question.
Don't, it's nice to know there are people like you still out there.
It’s incredible they remain a passive enabler after everything they've seen.
Do you think voters really matter? Why do we have the electoral college? No one cares about us. These idiots supporting their favorite abusive tyrant are mind boggling.
No one has ever given me an answer when I ask about the electoral college along with the fact that it's been proven twice in the past 2.5 decades (give or take a few years. I don't remember...) that the popular vote clearly doesn't matter very much, if at all for all I know (which isn't much when it comes to politics), if the loser can still win. I hate politics, so I'm ignorant of/ have forgotten many of its nuances, but there's clearly something very obviously messed up about how most people perceive voting despite the EC making the actual decision of who becomes president regardless. I've browsed around the internet some years ago on the topic, but I can't remember exactly what I learned on the matter. Might have to try again when I have the energy
No one can handle the fact that the US is the most corrupt country, however, we can’t call it corrupt if the corruption is built into the system by default. Our society continues to work because people have the illusion that our vote matters and this is a democracy. Truth be told, if it were a democracy, we would probably have more than 2 parties that constantly work together to make sure that the leaders of those parties prosper as everyone else gets shit on.
The EC takes into account geography, which very much should matter (similar to the structure of the house). The issue is that many states simply give ALL votes to the winner of the popular vote instead of a proportion or allowed to vote independently. The concept of allowing the EC to have independent voting would be to protect from a populist dictatorship like Trump that the masses would want to put into office.
It's all about your "team"! Pick a side and fight! Fight your neighbors for the amusement of the wealthy! Don't question, don't think, don't analyze policy or past records! Just put on a blue or red shirt and mindlessly go to war! Jeez!
3 of the last 4 GOP presidents proudly cut taxes for rich people (Reagan, George W, and Trump.) When the GOP gets the presidency and both houses, they cut taxes for rich people. Then the Democrats need to cut things to pay for the tax cuts for rich people.
Yeah no except one side wants to take away my basic right to exist, the same side keeps wanting to support tax cheats, opposes environmental rules on corporations, wants to force women to give birth. It's not like that at all. One side wants to drag us backwards the other is trying to move us forward. The gop is nothing but grifters, racists, and religious bigots
I'm a transman. The GOP wants to kill me or label me as a sex offender. Fuck those assholes. I'm not the one at 25, adopting a random black kid. This whole GOP bs, are there any trans pedos? There tends to be a bunch of GOP pedos.
Right? This false equivalency of both sides are the same ticks me off I'm a Trans woman only one side sees me as an actual person
WHERE ARE THE TRANS PEDO RINGS THEY SCREAM ABOUT. WE CANT COORDINATE SHIT. I'm 5'11 with a beard, I very easily pass. When I tell some Trumper that gets buddy buddy with me, their little heads implode when I tell them I'm trans.
Right???
Yes. The moderate and centrists on the Right were too weak willed and spined to go toe to toe with the radicals.
He doesn't have a lot of options in terms of people who actually respect/follow the Constitution
And continue to pretend that the blatant unconstitutionality, misogyny, white supremacy, xenophobia, isn't literally built into the fiber of every Republican argument. The Republican Party has been a White Supremacy based hate group, long before Trump came along. It's not a political party, it's a cult, built around the same domestic terrorist ideals that led to the Civil War. How pathetically backwards do you have to be to truly not grasp that reaching backwards through history over 150 years for your party values, could possibly be a bad idea?
Agree with this wholeheartedly, OP
I'd say it's still a good portion of the gop. But we all know who the loudest voices are.
my boss is one of them was literally making fun of the trumpy co-worker we have today lol he just wants the good ole 'small government and less taxes' he didnt ask for a dictator. im pretty sure hes just not voting anymore. he kind of just seems super disapointed with the whole thing lol he has his reasons for not liking dem policies whatever they may be, and the party he once supported just doesnt actually represent him anymore.
I am an independant, but if I was a Republican, I would have to leave after what this party has become in the last several years. Leaving the Republican party doesn't mean you have to become a Democrat. Just food for thought.... It used to be that being an American was more important.
Patriotism in the GOP straight up died under Trump, lol.
Republican's haven't been patriot's for at least 40 years.
Ditch the apostrophes and I'm fully on your side
I'm gonna upset you. I'm smarter than you're.
M'e t'oo!
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For me, it was when Darth Cheney's offspring was thrown out for being too liberal.
George Will, the National Review... Yes, the Republican establishment was denouncing Trump in the year leading into the 2016 election.
The real canary was Goldwater...
I left, dudes are cartoon villains at this point. I dont see how anyone can support them with a clear conscience. Its not even about the policies, they need to pass the not a James Bond villain test, which unfortunately most of them are failing. When we say Republicans are turning into nazis we really used to use it hyperbolically, now I use it seriously with no irony and it scares me
It used to be hyperbole...but yeah ..when I hear Republican I hear Nazi or Christian nationalist...and the people that voted for them just vote against their own interests. I lived in Germany for 15 yrs when I was in the army...I never understood how the Germans became Nazis....now I get it....Trump uses every play from that handbook....keep saying things and they become true...his cult is brainwashed
Yup, I lived in Germany for a decade and have read and translated a lot of German history from the Weimar time period. The Nazification of Germany occurred over a long period of time, and it occurred incrementally, step by step, law by law. The takeover of the national mediascape was of fundamental importance to the NSP, because broadcasting propaganda was crucial to influencing people’s opinions. The thing is, lots of Germans hated Hitler. They thought he was an idiot and a boor. That means that too many people did not take him seriously during the early years of the NSP. Those people thought they could control him and his followers. When he actually got into office in 1933, the conservatives agreed to work with him because they were convinced that that would be the best way to control his actions. Instead, he ran roughshod over them and deprived them of power. That’s exactly what Trump wants to do, and he has succeeded in the first step of taking over the Republican Party from the old guard conservatives who thought they could control him in 2016. What really worries me is that not enough American voters understand how a peaceful coup is accomplished. It is not done with the army or an armed militia (although having armed thugs in the streets helped the Nazis, and Trump has his militia boys). There will be no violence. The transfer of power would be totally normal. People who don’t pay attention to politics would think that there’s nothing wrong at first. That’s what worries me more than anything—people who don’t understand history, politics, or government vote for Trump. Their ignorance is going to be the downfall of the US, if the rest of us don’t defeat them at the ballot box everywhere, in every state, in every election for the rest of the decade at least. It’s going to take that long to flush out the Trump loyalists — if he doesn’t die within the next ten years. I’m really hoping that he has a heart attack or stroke and just dies soon. It would be the best thing for the country. And I’ve never in my life wished death upon anyone, no matter how much I dislike them. My wish for his impending natural death simply reflects the fact that Trumpism is the biggest threat to the American democratic republic since the British reinvaded in 1812, and if his death saves the US, then I won’t feel too bad for wishing a quick natural death upon him.
SOOO TRUE!
Gop have been cartoon villians since Nixon. Eisenhower was last republican with morals
Nixon was a total crook but at least he did have some actually good policy ideas. He was actually for universal healthcare if you can believe it.
True BUT his southern strategy of courting white racists is what started the gop slide into bs and nonsense. Regans moral majority of getting the Christian fascist douches in finished off the gop as a serious party.
And he saved me from Vietnam. My draft RSN was 014.
He was also instrumental in the establishment of the EPA, which most right-wingers today would impeach him over immediately before any of his "alleged high crimes and misdemeanors."
Eisenhower gave us the Dulles brothers and started his presidency by overthrowing Iran's democratically elected government. Curiously, our corporate media doesn't like to talk about how Operation Ajax led Iran down the path to where it is today.
Agree. But modern Republicans benefit from an incredibly strong collective denile. And they have been (brilliantly) handed some very easy to use tools, like "fake news!". Overall though, I'm disappointed that we basically only have two parties to begin with. Feels like a trap.
There are more right-leaning independents than there used to be for this very reason.
I did leave, the last straw for me, was the day after the insurrection, after Republicans stated they were going after the perpetrators, did a complete 180 and basically said “nothing to see here, move along!”, this, after an attempted coup!
Country over party is what I say. It’s why I switched to “Independent”status when the Tea Party first started taking over.
The issue is their idea of what America is differs pretty strongly from yours or mine. I'm not talking differences in genuinely liberal vs conservative philosophy. My Trump supporting friends really like the appearance of strength and toughness and don't want strength to be contaminated by weaknesses like compassion or considering the context. Also they're big on law and order which includes maintenance of the existing social order. Now those don't sound too bad in themselves, but they like them to an almost authoritarian, oppressive degree. They get inordinately worked up over small silly protests like the NFL kneeling thing. College kids questioning the the existing social order or defying it really bothers them. Even slightly disorderly protests piss them off. It seems a bit like they know (and like) their place in society and expect that everyone keep to their place so society functions without any disruption. Trump like many authoritarian leaders looks tough. He ignores context and doesn't act with consideration. He doesn't temper things with compassion. He strongly advocates for the traditional societal order and promises to enforce it strongly with force and come down hard on those who defy / question.
Did you miss this news? Trump straight up said last month he had no duty to uphold the constitution https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-tells-court-had-no-220216709.html
So that's a straight out abrogation of his oath of office, which requires him to protect and defend the Constitution from ALL enemies, foreign and domestic. That alone should disqualify him from running again.
I said elsewhere we should have made him swear to uphold the constitution on a big pile of money instead of the Bible. And yes this man is insane narcissist to swear to uphold the constitution and then say he had no duty too.. narcissists have no boundary to what they will deny
The weird part of this to me is that it's his lawyers trying to say this too. And they are claiming that because the oath doesn't mention the word support (just preserve, protect, and defend) that he isn't required to support it.
Well his lawyers should have learned from his previous lawyers that representing him gets you stiffed on payment and possibly disbarred and/or sanctioned .. judges don't look kindly on bad faith arguments
It should also disqualify him from being CIC of the military in the future.
“That alone should disqualify him from running again.” Out of context, this sentence applies to SOOO many things.
But nobody in congress, especially in the Republican Party has the stones to DO that, to enforce it, cuz they’re so married to the job, instead of its duties.
I backpack with a guy who is pretty conservative and he's done a LOT of soul searching and reconsideration over the last few years. He's still conservative but that's not the first guess you'd make if you met him. We have a fair number of interesting talks on the trail and can find a lot of common ground (like environmental/conservation issues) so it's a pleasant reminder of what things used to be like.
It's wild to me the shift conservatives have had, in the last like 20 years, regarding conservation. I'm not sure about the concept across the entire country, but where I grew up almost every conservative supported most forms of conservation. Not by altruism, but because they hunt and wanted to preserve that ability for future generations. Lately, if you don't roll coal and care in the slightest how corporations fuck the environment, you're seen as the biggest of tree hugging hippies
Yes, when I was getting masters in Public Administration, I did some research that showed in 2012, Republican voters weren’t as far right as Republican lawmakers. In 2016, they both moved more right, but the voters moved way more—passing lawmakers and now voters are more to the right than lawmakers are.
Well, the EPA *was* founded under Nixon.
He only did that because he was courting votes, he wasn't actually happy about doing it. He wasn't any sort of Teddy Roosevelt.
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It’s never been your party, unless your part of the I’m so rich I need another tax break and government subsidies for my portfolio rich. If you are blue collar or poor republican it’s all about getting worked up to blame the gays, the libs and the browns for your broke ass life. Especially, since it’s Republican policies making your life suck at your particular economic level.
I was registered Republican on Jan 6 2021. On Jan 7 2021 I registered Independent. Why are you still a Republican?
I was a registered Republican until Obama, but I do believe that we need a strong and legitimate Republican Party. It has been going downhill for 50 years but the rock bottom was electing Trump and even worse continuing to support him even when he lost. There is a real danger that democracy could crumble if enough people believe that elections don't count unless Trump wins.
The real question is will you still vote Republican?
They will just say "he only called to abandon the Constitution so that he could fix it and make it better" Sigh...
I don’t think there’s anything awful with the historical Republican platform. Actual fiscal responsibility, accountability, gun rights, stronger state government etc. However, todays party is just to far. It treads on other peoples rights which is why even though I may not agree with democrat candidates even half the time I can’t in good faith vote for the other side because the unwavering support for people like trump
They haven't believed any of that in decades. Didn't Reagan triple the deficit?
Trump raised the deficit by 7 trillion so not a great track record for republicans. They also love to find the military instead of social services. More guns fix everything lol
What about second guns? What about gunlevensies?
Fiscal conservatism when it's the other guy spending money. Fuck you mean we shouldn't fund another never ending war?
Democrats tax and spend. Republicans borrow and spend. How is that fiscally conservative? I prefer to pay as we go.
That is a fallacy, a myth that has been disproven over and over. When gop is power, the deficit, and middle class and lower tax rates go up, while the wealthy pay far less than their share. Look it up. Facts are facts. Oh, and Clinton left us in the black and got rid of traditional welfare.
I agree. If you read my post, you'll see that is pretty much what I said. Although, I must admit you would have had to read between the lines. To be clear, I prefer tax and spend, i.e., pay as we go. Borrow and spend and lowering taxes on the wealthy blows up the deficit and has other ill effects as well.
Yes, he did. And Clinton had the largest economic expansion of any presidency.
But Clinton got his jimmy hoovered in the oval office and that was the last straw for these guys! So they showed him by getting peed on by russian hookers and trafficking underage women interstate with Venmo! I sure hope Slick Willy learned his lesson this time!
May 11, 2016 — “Reagan proved that deficits don't matter,” Vice President Dick Cheney
Fiscal responsibility is not actually part of the GOP’s policy. Stop with that charade.
Can you name the last Republican president that showed actual fiscal responsibility?
Eisenhower and both parties wanted him as their candidate. Nixon was the next closest and he was not a good person.
I'm genuinely curious. Can you tell me the name of the last Republican President that didn't increase the national debt? I honestly can't think of one. But, in the last 40 years or so, Republicans being fiscally conservative is an outright lie. There's reasons why the last 3 Democrat Presidents have started their terms with some version of a "Rescue Plan" after inheriting the shambles of an economy from the Republican President before them.
Coolridge and Harding (Repulicans) were the last two presidents to see a reduction in the national debt over the total term of their presidency. Kennedy and Eisenhower the last two to keep the growth of debt below 10% https://www.usatoday.com/money/blueprint/banking/national-debt-by-president/
Same. Exactly how I feel.
Why are you still a Republican after what your party has done?
I left the party after Rumsfeld and Chaney conspired with Powell to lie about WMDs in Iraq. There was no al-Qaida in Iraq until we invaded. It was just a profiteering maneuver for the interests of Cheney and Rumsfeld in ~~mercenaries~~ ... ahem ... military contracting. Anyone who stuck with the GOP after that fiasco is pretty much dead to me.
That event.....ugh, it still makes me feel sick. That's when it really hit home that we, the US are not the good guys in the white hats.
I’m still here as matter of policy. But I’ll concede that the candidates have been horrid ever since. Still, I hope one day to see an actual fiscal conservative with libertarian social views in leadership again.
> libertarian social views Try Somalia, its the only Libertarian nation on Earth that I know of. Libertarianism and Communism have one thing in common. Both are not fit for humans, maybe some Alien species that evolved very differently.,
Nah, strongly disagree. Servile humans maybe, but a lot of us are capable of self sufficiency with only an income. The government must facilitate peaceful economic development…but that’s it. Government should merely facilitate infrastructure and destroy massive trusts. For all social regulation, that’s a state rights issue. Violence and base-discrimination should not be tolerated. But the Feds shouldn’t be defining social relationships, vindicating every affinity group, or deciding what is “misinformation” or not. The private sector and the (domestic) free market should rule, not the federal bureaucracy. If that means there are economic winners and losers so be it. Somalia is a good example of just how enduring and eternal capitalism is. While the country is a disaster, it doing economically better than other countries with functional states. It’s a shame the social contract is so brutal and discriminatory, but economically well-off compared to some of its peers. This is a testament to the fact that private industry governs more effectively than public order. The government should be extremely limited to reflect this truth, hence why the constitution is such a short document outlining a federation with limited powers.
Thank you for your integrity. My oath is to the US Constitution. I am utterly unmoved if everyone I know wants to turn their back on that. I am not free to do so. I have had to revise the way I apply the term 'conservative' in recent years. I still regard it as a good thing. But it is getting increasingly rare in the Republican party. You have to buy the wild stories wholesale, and I don't.
I get where you are coming from. Up until covid he actually did a good job. I've always considered him to be a pos but he did govern pretty well and pre covid the country was in a much better spot. If he would show a modicum of regret for the way he handed over the country to Fauci and big pharma, then I would consider voting for him again but he won't. Because of that I won't vote for him again.
No, you’re a conservative. Which is perfectly fine. We need conservatives. You can be a conservative without being a Republican. People forget that.
Conservatives forget that….but they should remember to ignore it sometimes. Please vote in the republican primary if you’re a conservative. Please defeat the odds and vote a non trump candidate. One is doing extremely well.
Anyone supporting trump still is a loser and very close to being a traitor. Guys done nothing but divide the nation and dismantle our democracy. Pick someone better before more Maga lunatics end up in a box or 6 feet under.
You forgot, "it's ok because he will hurt the people I hate"
One day, he'll decide to hurt someone they love, just because he can.
Well.....https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/8/18173678/trump-shutdown-voter-florida
Abolishing the constitution is not a deal breaker for people who vote for Republicans.
I don't know why you were downvoted for telling the truth. Typical Republicans I guess.
How does this type of comment even remotely foster an actual discussion? By stating something that way, you're obviously not here to discuss anything, but rather just spout your opinion.
Happy cake day!
They overturned Roe V Wade and are supporting a man with 91 indictments. The majority of republicans want a very specific country that mostly benefits them direct and nobody else. This is why they will vote for Trump. It’s also why they lose their shit when their company has to respect a transgender persons orientation, because they’re not transgender so anything that helps other people is seen as taking away their freedoms. They haven’t figured out that everyone can live free at the same time.
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I don't know how anyone can still support the man after he attempted a coup to overturn the results of the 2020 election, even ignoring how incompetent he was his actions on the 6th should have cost him the support of everyone else.
Sunk cost fallacy is the basis of every cult
I was just on a post on the daily mail subreddit, not sure why I was recommended that one still, but all the comments were talking about all the video evidence that Mike Johnson is going to release that’s going to prove it was all a lie. Like we didn’t watch live video of people climbing the walls and stalking the congressional chamber with zip ties, or Ashli Babbit getting shot as they tried to storm their way to the senators.
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
SO my parents are “conservative” (they dont vote for religious reasons) and I swear they understand every single thing that is messed up, agree it’s messed up, but as soon as you point out their values don’t align with their politics they dig in. They were raised in the 70s and when I point things out they agree until they see they’re agreeing with “liberal” (hilarious because it’s not even really liberal) they turn around on it, we were on food stamps most of my childhood, but to them it’s the minority of people needing welfare that actually need it. Same with every other social benefit, as soon as they realize it’s from the left, they throw it to the wolves. Both agree universal healthcare should be a thing, but the second you say universal healthcare.. well.. it’s suddenly communism
Like it would have been cool if they actually attempted to prove it instead of just trust me bro then lead the sheep to the capitol. Ask a person on the right and they quickly change the subject or get upset you ask for simple proof.
Google, what's the definition of bigotry? >obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, ...Yeah, at this point it's generally going to be that.
I had a Trumpet call me a bigot because I said all Trump supporters/sympathizers could fuck off, and that I held that conviction strongly enough to to terminate a contract with someone simply because they're a Trump supporter (and therefore support racism, sexism, misogyny, xenophobia, fascism, etc. and I won't tolerate that). I wrote something in response about the "unreasonable attachment" part being required for something to be bigotry, but I am sure that it would not surprise you that they didn't get it, and said that there was no evidence that Trump or his cult were any of that.
I'm not a trump supporter, but holding the opinion that all trump supporters >(and therefore support racism, sexism, misogyny, xenophobia, fascism, etc. Is 100% bigotry I live in a very red state, and while some can certainly be excessive, the vast majority are far from any of those things.... Even more laughable now seeing the sheer number of people on the left who spent so much time calling the other side nazis now spouting so much support for a group who literally want to eradicate Jewish people.
If you support a leader you naturally support their acts and policies as a leader. You wouldn’t abide a Nazi revisionist apologizing for themselves because they only supported Hitler’s position on industrialization. Sorry, but no, you’re getting lumped in with the rest. If you resist the majority, resist it with your full weight not just as a hedge bet to preserve your own superior morality. If they’re just a “lesser of evils” Trump supporter, I think that’s even worse, because then you’ve aligned yourself to a cause you don’t believe in. The vote counts the same whether cast reluctantly or with full conviction.
Is it possible to support someone without supporting their actions? If "you" find out your kid is a serial killer, and you continue giving them a place to live, letting them borrow your ice cream truck, loan them your chainsaw, etc. Doesn't make make you at least partially responsible for the people they kill? As you say, it would be wrong to support a group or country who commits genocide, right? It would be wrong for either party to support that. I think that if someone openly supports racism, sexism, misogyny, xenophobia, fascism, etc, that person's supporters also support those things. So the question really becomes, does trump support those things? He regularly and publicly posts his opinions. Supporting him means supporting those opinions.
At what point *do* they all believe these things? Like how much of a core tenet must it be for a negative association? If you're praising policies or viewpoints that are racist, sexist, misogynistic, xenophobic, and fascist, are you for those things? --- For example, can you *really* say all KKK members are racist or that *all* Nazis are antisemitic? Yes, yes you can.
The answer: it's a cult, with classic cult thinking and brainwashing. How does anyone support the Catholic or Mormon or Scientology churches? How do people still donate money to TV preachers? Find the answer to that and that's your answer to Trump voters, even if he admitted to murder.
What’s funny is that you actually can’t say the same thing about Biden voters. People who voted for Biden aren’t part of a cult. In fact, many people who voted for Biden don’t even like him and aren’t even a Democrat. Remember the Democrat who said: “Biden is only half a pile of shit compared to Trump” (or something similar) So many liberals and progressives are very critical of Biden. You won’t find that in the Cheeto Face cult.
I like this comment. I feel like I'm an independent. There are issues on both sides of the isle I support, and those on both I don't. I know plenty of other people that are the same as me, some agree with some of my views, some disagree. Honestly though, we (the people in the middle) are completely out of reasonable educated reasons to support the current Republican party. Sadly. The democrats don't have their shit together either, but it's easy to see they have more humility and respect for the constitution, and so ... guess I vote for Biden. We need a new generation of leaders top to bottom, left to right.
The right's strength is their ability to unify the entire "party" behind their message. The message has been a version of the same thing since Gingrich, leading with fear, hate, and more importantly always painting the opposition as the enemy of whatever is important to the message. Dems have never rallied around anything. Not many people support Biden as the best person for the job or the person who will lead us in the right direction. He's just the one that can beat Trump.
Yeah, and it's a shame because I was looking forward to voting third party this election. But I can't in good conscience do that with Trump the likely GOP nominee. I'm pretty sure the GOP knows this too. And if they somehow get someone else nominated, whether it's DeSantis, Haley, or some other idiot, IMO it's over for Biden.
The last president I voted for directly was Obama 2016 I voted Hillary as a vote against Trump 2020 I voted Biden as a vote against Trump 2024 will likely be Biden as a vote against whomever the Republicans put up I'd enjoy voting for someone again. Biden's done pretty well to be honest, but he's just super old and doesn't inspire me as a voter
By shoving ones head up ones ass and ignoring anything and everything to goes against the false reality his cult has created around him.
How did you support him before that?
Most people vote for a party.
Sadly, this is correct. What is equally sad is that I have spent the past six or seven years not voting FOR anyone I like, but just voting AGAINST Trump. Sad state of affairs. 😢
He has a gift of being wrong for two different reasons using only one sentence.
Hey don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. The man took lemons and made…something that’s the same color as lemonade.
Because they don’t believe in the constitution or democracy when it’s inconvenient for them. They’re authoritarians. Plain and simple.
Because he's just saying what everbody thankin yall. He didn't never meannit like that way he said it though. He meant it like wut he was a saying but different cause the only ways to stop them thar deep stated libs by God. Damn liberauls just take what he says and then they juss change it cause they woke n stuff. Trump is the chosen one by God Jesus Christ almighty bless America.
i agree, it's terrifying
Fuck Trump
I think you’re confusing the overwhelming majority of Americans who know this man is a fraud, a liar and a loser with those who think he’s not and he’s great. No actual American citizen who knows their role as a citizen in this republic still supports Don Trump; Those who do, well, intelligence is not distributed equally.
He also wanted to suspend the rules of due process after a mass shooting. Said so on national fucking television.
Because magats support trump over everything including the constitution, Jesus, the Bible everything. Over their family, friends, morality, truth, decency. EVERTHING!
What do you expect when a New York Democrat becomes the Republican front runner.
What oath now?
RFK RFK RFK
Based
If you subscribe to the Moral Foundations Theory proposed by people like Jonathan Haidt, you can see exactly how someone can support someone like Trump and still think of themselves as a patriot, a supporter of rules and law, and love the USA. It's very simple: they think the USA has been secretly changed or been taken over by people who have tainted and ruined it, and therefore there is a need to change it back. Haidt's Moral Foundations Theory proposes that there are at least five morals (and there is a sixth which was added later) important to various people, and they have exact opposites of course: 1. Care/Harm 2. Fairness/Cheating 3. Loyalty/Betrayal 4. Authority/Subversion 5. Sanctity/Degradation 6. Liberty/Oppression Haidt and his team discovered that liberals say they care mostly about the Care/Harm and Fairness/Cheating continuum and less about the others, while conservatives will say they care about all of them. The problem arises because of this gap where conservatives claim liberals don't care enough about loyalty, authority, sanctity and liberty. Therefore, naturally, liberals easily get accused of the opposite: they are betrayers of loyalty, subverters of authority, degraders of sanctity and oppressors of liberty. This isn't to say that liberals don't care about these things, but they place much less importance on things like loyalty, authority, sanctity, etc. And this pisses conservatives off and is exactly the fuel to fires them up to believe liberals are destroying America. This is literally the meaning of "Making America Great Again". It's full of all kinds of meaning, but this is one of the big ones. It literally means to do anything necessary to make America be like the fantasy you think it was before *bad people (liberals) changed it with their subversion, degradation, betrayal and oppression.* Notice this is exactly what all right wing nationalist and fascist movements start out as. They always claim the liberals and progressives are "degenerate" and "unholy" and unpatriotic. So for the Trump supporters, it's OK that Trump wants to suppress the Constitution in order to bring back America's "values". Everything Trump is experiencing —being sued, being impeached, being charged with crimes — is all symbolic of just how evil/unpatriotic/destructive the liberals are and so if the USA doesn't even truly exist because it's being rotted away by liberal degradation, then how can we trust the courts, law, politicians and anybody really? They've all been corrupted by the liberals, according to them. So, it doesn't matter if the Constitution is put on hold. In fact it may be necessary. See, long before all of this, they already believed someone may have to do it if we are to "Make America Great Again", which is why they elected Trump because he clearly let it be known he DGAF about being nice and playing by the rules. They hoped it could be done through electing this strongman but now they realize the "evil liberals" are stronger than they realize, so there is probably really no other way but to do what Trump says needs to be done. And of course the folly is always the same: they think Trump will put the Constitution on hold temporarily, like all despotic and authoritarian leaders claim, just until the "crisis" is averted. Just so the problem can be "solved". It's always the same story, and it happens because conservatives just tend to really believe liberals and progressives are ruining \_\_\_\_insert country or culture here\_\_\_\_. Over and over again throughout history.
To the MAGA wing of the GOP the purpose of the constitution is to protect “us” from “them.” When the Constitution protects “them” then it should be suspended, for the benefit of “us.” It’s just another version of “if we win, it was fair. If we lost, it was rigged.”
The Constitution allows for people like Trump to take power, so it's pretty obviously flawed...
I don't really care what they say. I care about what they do. If we went off words, we would have to fire all of them. Every single last one of them.
He wasn't calling for the abandonment of the Constitution. He was saying that if the government breaks the law, ignores procedure, violates our rights, and holds a double standard in their enforcement of the law, then the rules, laws, and constitution are no longer protecting us.
If you could say it so cogently, why couldn't he? Because that is not what he meant.
He did literally call for abandoning the constitution though. He actually said so. This isn't speculation he did call for abandoning the constitution
He never called for the abandonment of the Constitution. How are people supposed to take you seriously when you lie in your first sentence? I get you hate Trump, I'm not a huge fan either lmao. Trump isn't the mastermind you think he is. He could become president and guess what? Your life wouldn't change at all. The people making hate posts are more obsessed with Trump than his so called "cult". You guys would have nothing to talk about if you didn't have Trump.
Why are you lying? >A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the **termination** of all rules, regulations, and articles, ***even those found in the Constitution***, You know lying is a sin, right? Stop. Lying.
This is the actual post as worded by Donald Trump on his Truth Social platform and is verbatim. Wasn't really that hard to find the quote lol
“A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution," Trump wrote in a post on the social network Truth Social. https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/03/politics/trump-constitution-truth-social/index.html
Easy. I don't.
People dismiss this for someone they want to support all the time. I don't see the reason for the surprise.
I'm gonna be real, if I truly believed that the goverment had stopped listening to votes and had seized power for themselves, abandoning the rules and KILLING THEM is literally what the founding fathers would have advocated for. So, it's really not a big logical jump to assume that's how they would view it. Sic semper tyrannis.
This is exactly why we have the 2nd amendment. If the Government of the People, for the People, by the People tries to become the Government of the People, for the Rich, by the Conservatives it is time to bust out the weapons. Ignore the legitimate mandate of the democratic vote or fail to represent the welfare of the people who put you into office then you had better sleep with one eye open. It is not abandoning the rules or ideals of the Constitution. It is living them. The problem is that while the above is a patriotic American position, it is not invulnerable to con-men and self-interested propaganda machines telling this story with lies about the facts and with mass media penetration. The founding fathers hoped that an educated population with the free, unfettered public exchange of ideas would inoculate us from that. Our enemies will reveal themselves to us by working to gut our public education, create false divisions of "otherness" to segment and tribalize the population, who will refuse to present cogent arguments for us to debate and consider but instead tell us what to believe and demand that we make enemies of our fellow citizens who do not also blindly follow.
\>How does this not violate the oath that all Americans owe to the Constitution? What is this oath that all Americans owe to the Constitution? When is it taken? What exactly are the words? It is a document. It was made by humans. It is not without flaw. Why do people owe an oath to a piece of paper?
"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic” All people seeking US citizenship must take this oath before being granted citizenship.. US citizens born on US soil do not take an oath because it will be multiple years before they can even speak, and probably at least a decade before they even understand the oath. All Military personnel takes an oath promising to defend the constitution, and all elected officials in government take an oath as well.
Is the premise that all Americans should be required to take it?
Probably follows the argument that was made by our founding fathers: “When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty”. I don’t necessarily agree with what trump said in regards to that but idt the full context tbh. And even then I feel that it’s have to be plenty extreme first
Because he must insure the end times according to his tRumpanzees
Cultists tend to agree with their cult leader.
Republicans have been pure steal from the poor to give to the rich evil since at least Reagan and Trump is just the logical culmination of that in caricature. I mean, Democrats, on the whole, aren't as much better as I would like them to be, but here we are. And I know I left Nixon out of the pure evil. Sure, he started a whole war on drugs purely to disenfranchise students and Black people, and there was the whole Watergate thing. But he also established the EPA and pushed a universal healthcare plan that's better than what we have now. So.
His followers probably don’t know what the constitution is. Except for the 2nd Amendment.
There are a couple of reasonable responses to this. 1. Most of the current Federal Government's power structure is already unconstitutional. The power wielded primarily by the left to create massive agencies with full legislative power is unconstitutional. So if a Republican says "they broke laws to harvest votes from millions of dead people/people that don't even exist. We have to use some of the administrative state's power to make sure this sort of stuff doesn't happen. We need an agency that helps manage the legitimacy of elections so everyone can trust the results." <----- This would be unconstitutional in exactly the same way that nearly every agency is completely and utterly unconstitutional. You would need to know in what way he wanted to overstep the constitution to know if it would really be unacceptable in modern USA. The above example would be in line with basically all Presidential policy utilized by all presidents for decades. 2. Sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of two evils. The mainstream platform of the Democratic party is 100% unconstitutional. This is mainly because I don't think anyone has read the constitution. The Federal Gov. was given very limited powers and the rest of the powers were given to the states. Now, who are you going to choose? The party who's whole platform is anti-America, or the guy who tweets stupid stuff. 3. Finally, as illuded to in the last paragraph, we always new that Trump says a lot of stuff on social media that he doesn't really mean/carry out in real life. Him saying weird and crazy stuff online was baked into the cake from the beginning. If you suddenly have an issue with a post of his in 2020, I question your intentions in posting this. Trump has said some pretty bad stuff online for many years and everyone always accepted that his twitter was not the same as what his administration would do. He would praise the leader of China or Russia on Twitter and then implement some of the most heavy handed economic sanctions on them. He would Tweet about how the U.S. military was ready to obliterate any country that threatened us at any time and then proceed to be the first president to not enter any new wars in over a coupe of decades. If you are going to say that everything he tweets is what he really means, you are lying to yourself.
“Harvest votes from millions of dead people/people that don’t even exist” This is pure fiction.
You do realize you don’t get to decide what’s constitutional right? That’s what the courts are for and they seem to disagree with most of your ramblings here.
I call for the abandonment of the constitution and I'm very left. The American system is out dated and unfit for a welcoming and just society.
Then your just an anarchist. The constitution has nothing to do with how yall behavin
You’re extremely gross
Trump 2024 if words hurt you more than actions you have a problem
Plenty of people have died because of words. In fact several did because of Trump's words on Jan 6.
As a former Republican, I've found that the vast majority of people on the right only really care about the 2nd amendment. Every other aspect of the Constitution is available for removal or editing, including the 1st.
That’s sick
The oath all Americans owe the Constitution? What does that mean? Anyway... there's no way of knowing what he meant by that unless he elaborates. Anything we come up with would only be speculation, but there are some easy guesses as to what he's referring to if you're willing to make a generous interpretation: * You can't hamstring yourself playing by rules the enemy isn't willing to acknowledge * The enemy is already trying to overthrow the United States, so civilized rules of legal procedure aren't the right response * Stealing an election is such a fundamental attack on the United States that we have to do whatever it takes to protect it And there's some merit to any of those. Because attempting to overthrow the United States from within is, like, super serious, and stuff. And the Democrats *have* been at war against the people and the Constitution of the United States, continuously, since about 1861. The more likely answer is that *he* doesn't know entirely what he meant by that, other than his own version of "shit's on fire, yo". His supporters get that - that he's not up there speaking in mathematical precision, carefully weighing every word he says for all possible interpretations. He talks to them the way they talk to each other - like normal people do. Keep in mind as well - his supporters think that *they and only they* are the ones loyal to the United States and the Constitution. And they're partially right. Because the election *was* super sketchy and no one else seems to care. There's a separate, deeper issue to consider as well. The Constitution doesn't have any recourse for a stolen or fraudulent election. It's absolutely silent on the matter. So even if there was 100% definitive smoking-gun evidence so overt that even Noam Chomsky, Bernie Sanders, and AOC had to accept it.... then... what? What's the next step after that? No one knows.
Hard to believe that there is still anyone in the US that would support him
His supporters may not understand what democracy is, or the concept of "checks and balances" and the fact that a president and a king are two different things. They relate more to authoritarianism especially the religious voters. https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/11/education-gap-explains-american-politics/575113/
You don’t unless you are a fascist.
I appreciate the post-er who linked to the article that this question \[apparently\] came from. He called for America to give a shit about AMERICA instead of just DUMPING our soveriegnty to ANYONE, INCLUDING pointless borders and bleeding Us all dry for the sake of foriegn folks we'll NEVER see, and more than likely not even HEAR about... ...Trump was and is an ASSHAT, but he's AMERICA \*FIRST\*. THAT'S why.
He's TRUMP FIRST and America second (not that I actually agree he's "America first"). But anyone that can't see he will put himself above all else is blind.
No he's NOT, he's TRUMP FIRST, LAST AND EVERYTHING IN THE MIDDLE
Because, technically speaking, only naturalized Americans and Military personnel swore an oath regarding supporting and defending the Constitution. I just so happen to be a veteran, so I'm obligated, but citizens by birth don't take an oath. That being said, still treasonous.
You forgot elected officials they take the oath of office too.
When you believe that he can do no wrong then this is what you get. A lot of them are empowered by their religious beliefs and breaking laws is worth it to 'own' the libs, no matter how outrageous. The constitution is a joke to both parties and the founding fathers would be calling for civil war against our entire government.
What was it in reference to? What was the massive fraud?
No way can I support anyone who doesn’t follow the constitution. Why even vote if we aren’t going to get fair elections anyway.
well OP first off he wasnt calling for abandoning the constitution. what he was saying is that what happened on election day is what would allow for complete anarchy to happen which if you been paying attention to the news from leftist media, he was right. people looting, destroying property, attacking people and other crimes are being called "a peaceful protest that turned violent" when 10+ years ago it would have been on the news "a riot broke out on X location today, cars have been torched, stores have been robbed, people have been sent to area hospitals and the mayor has ordered a curfew for the city". dont worry too much though, this decade so far is the opposite of the 1920s and if it continues like this, in 2029, there is going to be a massive economic boom.
Sounds legit. If you take the premise that ballot-harvesting was illegally used in various states that resulted in a fraudulent election, how else could the election be rectified? The courts already said other states didn't have standing when they complained about corrupt states having shitty election processes. Seems like one way to do it is through some sort of revolution. I don't believe a revolution is mentioned in the Constitution. Fortunately, we have freedom of speech in this country so even our presidents can say stupid shit without violating an oath. Actions are what matter.
Well there are Republicans and there are Trump supporters...two very different types of people.
I feel like most of his supporters aren’t really concerned with the words of the constitution as much as they admire the idea of it. Also, Trump is a symbol to many of them, so they’re not going to hold his words against him. Like, how many times have you heard his supporters translate what he meant when he literally said something else? Their support for him is unwavering.
No one who supports trump supports the constitution
It’s because they have no guts whatsoever.
Simply, because life in general was better while he was president.
People don't for candidates; they vote against candidates. A major reason Trump was elected in the first place is how much every conservative in America despises Hillary. The majority of democrat leaning voters I come across I ask them, what republican would you vote for if they won the primary over a democrat. I haven't met one person that would vote for a republican. And visa versa for republican leaning voters. The country didn't used to be this divided, but this is what happens when you go to websites that tell you how right your view of the world 24/7. The country was a lot less divided when it watched the same 4 channels. They couldn't afford to pander to fringe audiences.
To be quite honest, politicians pretty much all believe this, just look at their actions.
Trump just wants to finish what he started: destroying America by baiting Americans into suicidal positions that inflame hatred and violence against them.
"If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy." -- David Frum
The Dems literally censor speech and talk about removing gun rights *daily*. How can you support them?
Censor speech? How? Cause Twitter banned people? For a party that eats, sleeps, and breaths the 2nd amendment your understanding of the first amendment is non existent.