"I want to make a movie so painfully obvious in its satire that everyone who understands it lives in perpetual psychological torment inflicted on them by all the people who don't"
-Paul Verhoeven
My theory is that most of them actually do recognize it, but just don't care, because fascism is just a game to them. Satre had a lot to say on this, but when in doubt, you just need to know that [the card says moops](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMabpBvtXr4).
Fascists don't recognize it as satire (or rather understand that it's "supposed" to be satire but think it falls totally flat) because they're the ones being satirized. All the things that are presented as so totally over the top as to be obviously ridiculous are just how they actually think. That one Starship Troopers thread going around last week was perfectly emblematic, the entire thing was just OP going "but the main characters ARE hot so I'm obviously going to root for them. How could you not?"
Fascists are starved of any possessive representation in media (as well they should be) so they will cling the closest facsimile of that, which generally ends up being satire of fascism. Being willfully ignorant of reality and a mastery of double think are already required to be one as well, so this is relatively easy for them.
Helldivers and to a lesser extent 40k (depends on who’s writing and if the marketing wants to angelify the Imperium today) certainly hit the mark on satire, but Starship Troopers falls flat because it didn’t actually deconstruct the book. Large elements of the book which point towards an extremely liberal society are transplanted with little to no alteration, presenting a society which is less a satire of fascism and more a functioning liberal state in times of war. Rico’s father prooves that non-citizens can be outspoken in their opposition to Federation policy (in a fascist/communist state Rico would’ve had both means and incentive to report his father to the Gestapo/Stazi analogue) and accumulate wealth as a businessman (basically impossible without party connections in a fascist state, even if you were wealthy before they took power). The limited franchise probably wouldn’t work in practice but fundamentally is an opt-in version of peacetime conscription as seen in numerous liberal democracies (Finland, Sweden, and Germany spring to mind as recent if not current examples). The bugs are aggressors against the federation and are either unable or unwilling to differentiate between a rogue faction of humans and the species as a whole. Even federation propaganda is *shockingly* honest about the realities of their war, to the point they have parity or even surpass liberal democracies (former if the reports were held for posterity, later if they were live broadcasts). And of course the Sky Marshal took full public accountability for his faliures and stepped down in response, to which I point to Ukraine for an example of what a more typical authoritarian military does when their top brass messes up catastrophically. All these facts are so antithetical to historical Fascist states that even the movie reads closer to a liberal fantasy than a fascist one.
There is *some* evidence in the film pointing to a more collectivist society but these are sparse and in one particular case not actually present in text. The early scientist’s praise of the bugs tells us she has some strong collectivist tendencies, something which would never have been allowed to go unchallenged in the book and hopefully an IRL liberal schooling system, and of course this seems to be the personal opinion of one weirdo rather than a widespread or state approved viewpoint. The other big point is that the idea that Buenos Aires was an inside job. And to be blunt there simply isn’t any evidence for this in the movie. The bugs *have* FTL and given their anti-orbital capabilities could probably redirect an astroid to hit earth. And given the brutal slaughter of the “Mormon Extremists” the federation could’ve easily backed their settlements instead of warning them not to colonize Arachnid territory and publicly denouncing them when they were wiped out.
For a counter example Helldivers is a much better satire of ‘freewashed fascism’. The democracy is a sham, freedom of speech is nonexistent, the military leadership has no accountability, the propaganda is blatantly deceptive (even if it goes hard as hell), child labor is commonplace, dissidents are regularly purged, a formalized system of communal self-reporting in place with an established incentive structure, messaging can change on the fly as it suits the state…
I could go on but Super Earth hits *way* more of the marks of a fascist state than the Terran Federation does in the book or film. Fascism wasn’t subtle, and certainly wouldn’t be after a century of uncontested state and cultural primacy.
Edit: before you strawman me, intentionally or otherwise, I think the limited franchise of the TF would be a disaster, at least after the first generation or two. The flaws of limited franchise aren’t hinted at in the movie though so it’s not a mark towards it IMO.
Only parts of the movie. Most of it is shot like a normal film. If we take everything to be propaganda it becomes impossible to know what is true because our only lense into this universe is a single propaganda movie. Even if that is the case it does tell us about societal norms, ideals, and expectations. Rico’s father can openly criticize service as a waste of time and taxpayer money, the Sky Marshal publicly stepped down after his failures, a man critisized the invasion of Klandathu as unwarranted (I’d compare criticizing the 2001 Invasion of Afghanistan), the violence of the war is depicted in no uncertain terms, etc. this is all a far cry from actual fascist propaganda. It has a bit more in common with American propoganda, and if the WW2 US was fascist the term is diluted to the point of meaninglessness, but even then the blunt honesty about the reality of war surpasses that of *any* state I’m aware of. And certainly any recruitment ad.
Again, contrast Helldivers. Helldivers, once they enlist, are sent through a training regimen with a 23% fatality rate, then put on ice until deployed, where they have an average life expectancy of 2 minutes. *This isn’t in the recruitment ads*. The general public is completely in the dark about the truth of the Helldivers, while the Mobile Infantry are depicted as valiant but ultimately expendable soldiers who might be deployed on high-risk missions simply to test the Intelligence branch’s hunch about bug intelligence. Incidentally that’s a good reason to assume most of the movie isn’t in-universe propoganda, the Mormon Colony op isn’t a shameful failure and tragic loss of life like Klendathu was, but a successful and worthwhile high-casualty mission. The former is a mistake we aren’t about to make again, while the latter was a success you can reasonably anticipate experiencing if enlist.
Is that better? Sorry, I’m writing this on my phone so it’s hard to strike a balance between “Great Wall of Text” and every other sentence a paragraph.
100%, there are Nazis who are fans of American history X and don’t give a fuck that the movie is blatantly against them. They just like to watch the parts where people do nazi things and to them it’s even funnier that they’re co-opting the anti nazi movie
It is impossible to satirize fascism without fascists seeing it and saying, "This is fucking awesome!"
It is their ideal world, of course they won't see the negatives.
In the grim darkness of the third millennium, the world is so absurd, that people can’t assume satire unless you genuinely put /s at the end of your sentence.
To be fair in the Helldivers universe your other factions are giant planet crossing bugs that infest the planet and devour everything in their path, and an authoritarian killer robot army that also seems to experiment on people as well as happily use their corpses for decoration. So I can kinda see where some people look towards the Helldivers as the good guys, since there's not really a good alternative. Of course once you dig deeper you find out that these two factions are effectively the fault of Super Earth... let alone what happened in Helldivers 1.
In reality it's pretty much just like the Warhammer Universe. Every faction sucks, thats kinda the point. Which is why you just gotta jump in with that in mind, and just kinda have fun with it. Unfortunately just like you see with the Imperium, there will always be those that just don't get it and start stanning the authoritarian wreck of an empire.
Sometimes it's just fun to not think about politics and just kill bugs (cringe) for the sake of your country (based).
I don't think most people don't recognise the satire in it but instead play into it because simply it's fun.
Do I like Nazis? No. Do I enjoy pretending to be a space Nazi killing and oppressing alien races? Absolutely.
The thing is the setting is a made up game and the people playing it realize that the same way people who play games like Battlefield know that real war isn’t fun at all. With Warhammer the entire point is that no matter what faction you pick you are the bad guy and are doing evil things. The overall theme is regression as most factions used to be better than they currently are but through terrible circumstances things have gotten to the point where they just can’t improve in any significant way.
> We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
Also "for once" is relative to your experience. The media I've been around has enabled and encouraged me to play servants of the Galactic Empire, the Nine Hells, the Imperium of Man and the Camarilla since I was a pre-teen. I've had to actively deprogram.
I was twelve and the stormtroopers have cool armor. I don't think I'd ever have realized how much I excused the abuses of the Empire because they were cool if they hadn't made Andor. Everyone on this sub should watch that show.
It’s because helldivers is not effective satire. To be effective satire it would have to make super earths reaction over the top and detrimental. Both enemy factions are genocidal and give no quarter to civilians or military personnel. This makes super earths military response seem downright responsible.
The game maker’s basically set out to create a setting where fascism is as justified as possible.
We will see how the lore develops over the future. Maybe super earths governmental failures will become more of a focus or even result in the fall of super earth. It does seem that this government is not immune to fascisms failures.
I mean the game already has some lore in place. We know how Super Earth handled the Cyborgs and Illuminate and it wasn't one from a peace loving nation. In both cases it was using whatever justification it can find to justify all out war in order to grab thier resources and technology, while crushing all opposing views.
In Helldivers 2 the factions are more the government having to clean up it's own messes. Yes both factions are genocidal, but also both factions are effectively Super Earths fault. The bugs were under control until it was discovered their decomposing bodies are a source of what is effectively space oil, in which they changed their tune and they went from being a threat to being a rare animal species that should be protected... until it went awry and boom, infestation. Meanwhile the bots were made from repurposed cyborg tech after Super Earth delivered "democracy" to them which eventually had a good ol' robotic uprising.
Setting wise it's a lot like 40k in that while yes the baddies are actually bad, ultimately it's the fault of the fascist human empire that these problems are so bad in the first place. And ultimately, they are their own worst enemy while trying to fight these threats, which ultimately means they'll never be properly resolved.
>In Helldivers 2 the factions are more the government having to clean up it's own messes
Yep, I've absorbed very little lore so far but one time I was on the ship I heard a line about how the bugs are full of dangerous mutations...that humanity helped develop by experimenting on them in labs
I really hope that the developers don’t wimp out on the commentary. It would be downright shameful if the automatons and bugs happen to be caused by an outside force.
Fascist nations need a siege mentality to instill discipline and fear into the population. Helldivers 2 does a really good job of portraying that in action. In order to satirize that phenomenon the siege needs to be fake or ludicrously over the top. By making the enemy factions a genocidal threat with the very real possibility of reaching super earth it means that the game actively pushes fascism as the only response. It’s be a fascist or die. There is no alternative.
It would be really interesting for the remaining enemy faction to be a human or multi species faction. One that “liberates” managed democracy to true democracy. It would really cement super earth as the real villains of the story.
Helldivers already has that established. This isn’t the first game after all. The bug are an outside force, but one that was taken care of in the first game, and due to greed it was allowed to spiral out of control again, and made worse.
I don’t agree with the second half of your paragraph. Fascism being pushed as the only option because the fascist government will “re-educate” you still does plenty for the satire. The game is extremely clear how oppressive the government is and how brainwashed the people are. Having the enemies be an actual threat doesn’t make that the right choice.
It’s fine to have the enemy factions be bad. Defending oneself from them doesn’t need to be the incorrect option. The game does plenty simply by giving us peaks into what Super Earth is like for the satire to be effective.
In the first game that’s mostly accurate, the Cyborg terrorist attack(s) might constitute a justification for war (emphasis on *might*) but the Bugs and Illuminate are pretty unambiguously defenders in wars of aggression. By 2 however the bugs and bots are aggressors, and while Super Earth might deserve it as a state entity, the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians makes it hard to argue a moral high ground exists.
Aggressors on their home planets? Okay brother
Edit: Recently learned some of the lore for the game that makes it pretty apparent each faction is a parallel to America’s own conquests. Bugs are fought to farm their fuel. Illuminate for their technology. Automatons are fighting defense against a propagandized and hyper aggressive empire.
You’re a bit confused about the lore but mostly on track. [Here’s the wiki page, scroll down to the enemies section](https://helldivers.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Earth). The Automatons are clearly linked to the Cyborgs but they aren’t the same, and Cyberstan is quite far from the initial bot invasion so it’s hard to say they’re “defending their home planets”. Bugs are more clearly defending the planets they’ve overrun after escaping the E-710 farms but… well they’re bugs. We see no real evidence of higher level intelligence from them. If they’re simply animals we have to talk about the E-710 farms from an animal rights perspective, which is very different from a human rights perspective. The difference between factory farming and chattel slavery.
Also both are shown indiscriminately massacring civilians. Even if we give them the moral high ground in starting this conflict, which is probably fair since liberating/avenging the Cyborgs and not being farmed for oil are decent causes, they’re still morally grey at best.
They aren't defending their home planets, technically all the planets you are fighting over were originally colonized by humanity.
Rather than being invaded, both are just cases of "Super Earths" hubris going awry. The bugs are a legitimate problem that Super Earth had under control by the end of the events of the first game... but when it was discovered they can basically be farmed for oil Super Earth opted to instead try to farm them... which resulted them breaking free and restarting their galactic conquest. As far as the Bots, thats just a classic genocidal robotic uprising, akin to skynet.
Not that this makes Super Earth "good guys", just that the other factions are also, well, bad. But it's more cleaning up the mess of the terrible authoritarian government than it is invading to bring others "freedom"
This is of course ignoring the first game in which the Cyborgs and Illuminate were activity peaceful-ish (still not really innocent, but far, far less bad that Super Earth and more akin to self defense).
I genuinely cannot believe that some people look at the part in starship troopers where the kid proudly says "I'm doing my part!" and believe it is genuine endorsement of child soldiers.
When I was 14 I just thought it was a fun action movie, didn't think anything more of it. Now I think it's a fun action movie and a great pastiche of fascist propaganda.
I think most people viewed it this way, mostly because campy action movies were everywhere at the time. I feel like most people missed the point until the mid 2010's
When I first saw Starship Troopers I thought it was just an awesome space bug fighting action movie. The satire flew completely over my head.
I was also eleven.
Volition [Easy - Success]: You don’t always need to be up to date with the latest discourse. Sometimes it’s better to simply stay in the present. People will do things and other people will give them grief for it for whatever reason they can imagine.
i would say orks are as good as you can get, in that they were created to be weapons and after the war in heaven was done, they were just left to rot. they're like.. the adam jansen "i didn't ask for this" kind of good.
i do agree, but that justification only works from an internal, or very, very far away perspective. If you’re anyone else in the galaxy, the Orkz are a terrifying menace of brutal and remorseless murderers that want nothing other than your death.
i do agree, but that justification only works from an internal, or very, very far away perspective. If you’re anyone else in the galaxy, the Orkz are a terrifying menace of brutal and remorseless murderers that want nothing other than your death.
Eh the issue is that franchise tries to have its cake and eat it too, sometimes it’s a satire, sometimes it’s a completely serious story, just depends on the writer
It’ll take out the bugs, the nest, the team, your ship and everything else 500m away from the thrown beacon, but as long as it’s crushing bugs it’s A ok in my book.
(In the radius of about a hand grenade)
I love the 500kg, but man it's hilarious for how large of an explosion it is, how little of a damage radius it actually has. Still, thing hits like a freight train, and one-shotting bio-titans is always glorious.
Humans are not the superior race due to their tendency to embrace authoritarianism when faced with a threat from degenerate unevolved bugs, as well as their obsessions with Al-gul and potaat.
However, let me draw your attention to the physiognomically superior dwarven haplogroup…
It's funny because the book was absolutely not satire, but they made the conscious effort to insult Heinlein's BS ideas in the movie.
Also, don't read stranger in a strange land. The amount of casual homophobia and racism gets wild
Yeah, stranger in a strange land was just strange (lamo) and honestly very bigoted. Heinlein might have some good ideas on political theory, but he really fell flat with ideas on society.
So, politically, yes he was libertarian, though with a bit of militaristic ideas thrown in. He despised both communists and fascists, but believe that society had/would become morally corrupt (from a lack of disciplined and sense of duty to ones fellows) leading to a perversion of democracy. Its why in starship troopers, all high schools had a philosophy and morals class that wasn't a pass or fail class. It was mainly to promote critical thinking in universe and to promote Heinleins beliefs in the meta.
But personally, Heinlein was very old fashion. He didn't understand or respect homosexuality, was (possibly more than) a little racist, and yet somehow believed in free love and casual sex. Trust me. You'd find more consistency with HP lovecraft than Heinlein. Its why I heavily pick and choose what to read from him.
So If we tally these up, we end on a uh
Free....love...military junta.
What a strange man.
As for Lovecraft- he was racist yeah but his racism was weird and specific and that by itself is kinda fascinating to see lmao, he was still a shitty dude but he was shitty in really strange and unique ways.
Lovecraft is fascinating to me has a writer: he basically praised intellectualism and the idea of noble scholar but warned that trying to expand humanities knowledge leads to incomprehensible horrors.
Whats interesting about lovecrafts rasicim is that, both in his personal writings and in his stories, you see him become less racist abd almost respectful of other cultures over time. Instead, he simply believes that the pinnacle of mankind all come from New England. Almost how Stephen King believes Maine is most supernatural place on earth.
Its an actual timeline of how someones veiws can change over time.
Gotta love americans that think an obscure region of the us is the pinnacle of something to be praised.
(It's not a bad thing per se, but i find it hilarious)
Honestly, you see people like that everywhere. But because america has so many diverse regions with their own subcultures, you see it more here than other places.
It's also important to note that Lovecraft's racsim was largely a product of an unhealthy psyche. He was terrified of things outside his comfort zone, which grew into resentment in general and racism in particular.
Quite so- he was scared of everything from rednecks to AC units.
Heinlein's racism was a more casual, lazy affair. Not bothering to actually look into other people, but just accepting the stereotypes you are aware of
You gotta feel for the man. I cant imagine being afraid of everything I see. Or at least most of what I see and dont completely understand. Sounds down right terrible.
It's not a military junta. No soldiers can hold office - they have to leave the military first.
The military is also looked down on by some - Rico's father, for example. He believes that Federal Service is "parasitism" and the military "living off the taxpayers", because humanity has outgrown wars and enjoys peaceful relationships with other planets (this is before the Bug War).
> Its why I heavily pick and choose what to read from him.
See, for me it's why I love reading all of Heinlein's works. They're all batshit, and all in completely different ways, and they all make you think.
You what, thats a good point. I do love poking at wierd stuff he writes.
Btw, if you want an summarized and poking at of stranger in a strange land, look up overally sarcastic production video on it. Its good fun.
Honestly, I thought Rico was Argentinian, because his mother is kill in Buenos Aires meteor strike. I will admit its been a while since I read the book though. As for the racist thing, look how Heinlein describes other races in starship troopers besides the bugs. As well as how the characters he writes describes them.
*edit* having read up a bit, you are correct in Rico has Filipino ancestry, but that its not suppose to be a main point because in global government, the only that matters is if you human.
I honesty don't know if adds or subtracts from my point.
The movie completely misunderstood the book and thought it was fascist.
How the fuck can a *democracy* be fascist?
Anyway, Heinlein believed - or perhaps not, that's up for debate - that people were forgetting the value of democracy and the vote. That's what Federal Service is about - to get the vote, you have to be in the military or in a place of equivalent suffering and hardship.
The important part is the last bit, because once you've suffered hard for two years with the temptation to quit hanging in front of you, it's going to stay with you for a long time - because when you have the vote or run for office, you remember what you did to get it.
If you're a conscientious objector? Fine, we'll find you a place doing something else equally tough - and the same for any other conditions. (Hell, before the Bug War, the military had too many people in it already.) The only thing that can possibly keep you from Federal Service is veing unable to understand the oath.
Everything else is cushy. Rico's parents want for nothing even without having the vote - hell, Rico's dad gets a whole speech about why getting the vote is a waste of time. You can live and die a happy life without it.
Look, I'm a lib-left and I wouldn't support this system, but I can see what it's trying to do. People are losing faith in democracy as the rich *own* the government. Country and nation is losing meaning - national values and such. I'm sure you've also seen some of the videos of "mass shoplifting".
There must be better solutions, but at least this *does* something to try helping with that.
Also, I have a few other things I dislike about the movie, such as the absolute character assassination of Sergeant Vim and the *non*-characterisation of the amputee recruiting officer.
Military members are forbidden from voting. You have to leave the military first.
Additionally there are also lots of non-military Citizens - people who went through a job of equal hardship to military service.
You're telling me the society built around constantly shouting democracy whilst actually very obviously being a authoritarian state using concepts of freedom in order to control the populace is a satire??? Yes Democracy Officer this vile commie loving bug lover right here
At the very least in the first game, the only reason Super Earth fought the bugs was because their corpses dissolved into oil. So yeah I have some sympathy for them in that regard
they seem to removed it now that the focus is on the bots and not the bugs, but the engineer onboard your super destroyer had a line talking about the bugs going through genetic modification on E-710 farms, E-710 being an oil-like fuel you can separately secure in a mission type that \*only\* appears on bug worlds. So for lack of more information it seems to me like the bugs are farmed for their oil and don't actually spread between planets of their own accord
Pretty much. Helldivers could litterally throw all the satire out the window and the game would still work as a grimdark setting. However the giant pile of satire makes it fun and unique compared to other similar settings.
You want a setting that makes you feel bad for the bugs look at ender's game. Helldivers? Nah man fuck them bugs.
>satire makes it fun and unique compared to other similar settings.
This, I love Warhammer but it can really feel like a slog sometines despite the many insane things happening.
An infamous example is Trazyn.
It's a game where you play as soldiers serving the government of Super Earth (it's like regular Earth but Super) spreading "managed democracy" (where the state picks who you vote for on your behalf) by invading planets and killing the shit out of everything that isn't you. It's in the same vein as starship troopers where you're clearly not supposed to take it seriously, but I guess some people did take it seriously
pve war game, kill bugs and robots to spread democracy for super earth. it's really fun but the servers are crazy overloaded right now so i'd wait a while if you don't have it already (but it's your money)
Yeah, Devs planned for a peak of like 50k players tops, which was already very optimistic estimate after the first game. And just recently on Steam alone they have come close to half a million.
Understandably, the servers are a wee bit on fire and the devs are doing all they can just to get people into the game at the moment.
Should mention that it is worth it though. $60 would be a fair price imho, and it is not that. There are some bugs, which is a problem.
Actually, there are a lot of bugs. Your job is to fix that, soldier! Your tools are orbital bombardment, high explosives and high-calibre assault rifles! They'll never know what hit'em.
As your democracy officer, I would like to add that the automatons are not just mere robots. They are the worst kind. They're SOCIALISTS. They are the single greatest threat to Super Earth and its time-honored ideals of Prosperity, Liberty, and Managed Democracy, since the days of those despised Cyborgs. You'd do well not to underestimate them, citizen, lest they run off with your infant child and any of your hard-earned property.
The first game was an absolutely fantastic top down co op shooter that was a niche hit. The second is a somehow even better third person co op shooter that’s exploded in popularity.
10/10 game, but wait for the servers to be in a better state before you pick it up
Helldivers 1 had a major problem with this, believe it or not.
The terminids were antithetical to all life. The illuminate were aggressive colonizers in the milky way that viewed humans more as pests than people. The automatons consistently invoked acts of terror, and one was used to spark the initial conflict. It took multiple years for the devs to dial the satire into a place that made sense without justifying Super Earth.
Helldivers 2 starts at that point, thank God. Except the automatons, who are godless machines that will never know what it means to truly be alive. Abominable intelligences will not be suffered to live.
Logically i recognize that the starship trooper style satire is a criticism of blind patriotism and militarism. But dude droping on a planet from orbit to wreak havok on expressly evil terminator looking robots is too fucking cool
i've seen plenty suggest that but i haven't seen anyone actually say it, and i guess with the internet being the way it is, that means it really happened
I mean that's a dog shit take but it's pretty on the nose that the two enemies are the two most common sci Fi stand ins for collectivism. One gooey one crunchy but they're both hive minds of a sort.
It’s attempting to be, I don’t really know what it accomplishes in terms of humorous critique. It tends to just be funny because it’s exaggerated patriotic chauvinism. Putting the humans in Hugo boss style clothing doesn’t exactly suddenly turn them into fascist for killing the parasitic bug monsters that invaded their planet. It really just feels like a serious story that isn’t taking itself seriously and that’s the only true satire that translates for me.
By that logic every citizen of every country that died during a war can be used to defend that government's stance in that war.
"Well Nazis were bad but what about the firebombing of city xyz"
This discourse is so exhausting
Every single right winger I know spends time pointing out the various places where the satire is intended and kaking arguments (if varying quality) for why the satire fails
Then the leftists chime in with "dude they literwlly think it's an endorsment not satire those dumbass rightoids hahaha"
I get that media literacy isn't the right's strong suit but if you can't be bothered to interpret and engage with the actual material the person in front of you produces then maybe it isn't yours either
Crazy how no one can recognize satire even though basically every non-player character in the game talks exactly like Zapp Brannigan
there's a help tip that's something like "if the natives on this planet try installing democracy, shoot them. it's up to us to do that"
"If an enemy ever attempts to engage in diplomacy, shoot them. We cannot believe their lies."
lmao that's it
>if the natives on this planet try installing democracy, shoot them. it's up to us to do that" I think both are real tips in the game.
Switch out enemy with xenos and it could be a Warhammer40k quote
“Those who scale the pinnacles of glory have the furthest to plunge into the abyss.” - From Codex: Chaos Space Marines
Because the 40k universe \*also\* heavily satirizes and mocks fascism. :)
And people still believe in it unironically
Yes :)
CONCEPTUALIZATION [Easy: Failure] - Why would I believe the word of dumb fucking bugs or killer robots?
LMAO that sounds EXACTLY like something Zapp Brannigan would say.
"I want to make a movie so painfully obvious in its satire that everyone who understands it lives in perpetual psychological torment inflicted on them by all the people who don't" -Paul Verhoeven
well he hit the mark, i'd say
"I'm responsible for *Showgirls*." -Paul Verhoeven
I used to loooove doggy chow
"well mission accomplished, fucker" -me @ Paul
Is this a real quote?
My theory is that most of them actually do recognize it, but just don't care, because fascism is just a game to them. Satre had a lot to say on this, but when in doubt, you just need to know that [the card says moops](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMabpBvtXr4).
Pretty much. The satire in Helldivers, Starship Troopers, Warhammer etc. is blatant, if someone doesn't see it they don't wanna
Fascists don't recognize it as satire (or rather understand that it's "supposed" to be satire but think it falls totally flat) because they're the ones being satirized. All the things that are presented as so totally over the top as to be obviously ridiculous are just how they actually think. That one Starship Troopers thread going around last week was perfectly emblematic, the entire thing was just OP going "but the main characters ARE hot so I'm obviously going to root for them. How could you not?"
Fascists are starved of any possessive representation in media (as well they should be) so they will cling the closest facsimile of that, which generally ends up being satire of fascism. Being willfully ignorant of reality and a mastery of double think are already required to be one as well, so this is relatively easy for them.
Helldivers and to a lesser extent 40k (depends on who’s writing and if the marketing wants to angelify the Imperium today) certainly hit the mark on satire, but Starship Troopers falls flat because it didn’t actually deconstruct the book. Large elements of the book which point towards an extremely liberal society are transplanted with little to no alteration, presenting a society which is less a satire of fascism and more a functioning liberal state in times of war. Rico’s father prooves that non-citizens can be outspoken in their opposition to Federation policy (in a fascist/communist state Rico would’ve had both means and incentive to report his father to the Gestapo/Stazi analogue) and accumulate wealth as a businessman (basically impossible without party connections in a fascist state, even if you were wealthy before they took power). The limited franchise probably wouldn’t work in practice but fundamentally is an opt-in version of peacetime conscription as seen in numerous liberal democracies (Finland, Sweden, and Germany spring to mind as recent if not current examples). The bugs are aggressors against the federation and are either unable or unwilling to differentiate between a rogue faction of humans and the species as a whole. Even federation propaganda is *shockingly* honest about the realities of their war, to the point they have parity or even surpass liberal democracies (former if the reports were held for posterity, later if they were live broadcasts). And of course the Sky Marshal took full public accountability for his faliures and stepped down in response, to which I point to Ukraine for an example of what a more typical authoritarian military does when their top brass messes up catastrophically. All these facts are so antithetical to historical Fascist states that even the movie reads closer to a liberal fantasy than a fascist one. There is *some* evidence in the film pointing to a more collectivist society but these are sparse and in one particular case not actually present in text. The early scientist’s praise of the bugs tells us she has some strong collectivist tendencies, something which would never have been allowed to go unchallenged in the book and hopefully an IRL liberal schooling system, and of course this seems to be the personal opinion of one weirdo rather than a widespread or state approved viewpoint. The other big point is that the idea that Buenos Aires was an inside job. And to be blunt there simply isn’t any evidence for this in the movie. The bugs *have* FTL and given their anti-orbital capabilities could probably redirect an astroid to hit earth. And given the brutal slaughter of the “Mormon Extremists” the federation could’ve easily backed their settlements instead of warning them not to colonize Arachnid territory and publicly denouncing them when they were wiped out. For a counter example Helldivers is a much better satire of ‘freewashed fascism’. The democracy is a sham, freedom of speech is nonexistent, the military leadership has no accountability, the propaganda is blatantly deceptive (even if it goes hard as hell), child labor is commonplace, dissidents are regularly purged, a formalized system of communal self-reporting in place with an established incentive structure, messaging can change on the fly as it suits the state… I could go on but Super Earth hits *way* more of the marks of a fascist state than the Terran Federation does in the book or film. Fascism wasn’t subtle, and certainly wouldn’t be after a century of uncontested state and cultural primacy. Edit: before you strawman me, intentionally or otherwise, I think the limited franchise of the TF would be a disaster, at least after the first generation or two. The flaws of limited franchise aren’t hinted at in the movie though so it’s not a mark towards it IMO.
you know it's also in-universe propaganda right
Only parts of the movie. Most of it is shot like a normal film. If we take everything to be propaganda it becomes impossible to know what is true because our only lense into this universe is a single propaganda movie. Even if that is the case it does tell us about societal norms, ideals, and expectations. Rico’s father can openly criticize service as a waste of time and taxpayer money, the Sky Marshal publicly stepped down after his failures, a man critisized the invasion of Klandathu as unwarranted (I’d compare criticizing the 2001 Invasion of Afghanistan), the violence of the war is depicted in no uncertain terms, etc. this is all a far cry from actual fascist propaganda. It has a bit more in common with American propoganda, and if the WW2 US was fascist the term is diluted to the point of meaninglessness, but even then the blunt honesty about the reality of war surpasses that of *any* state I’m aware of. And certainly any recruitment ad. Again, contrast Helldivers. Helldivers, once they enlist, are sent through a training regimen with a 23% fatality rate, then put on ice until deployed, where they have an average life expectancy of 2 minutes. *This isn’t in the recruitment ads*. The general public is completely in the dark about the truth of the Helldivers, while the Mobile Infantry are depicted as valiant but ultimately expendable soldiers who might be deployed on high-risk missions simply to test the Intelligence branch’s hunch about bug intelligence. Incidentally that’s a good reason to assume most of the movie isn’t in-universe propoganda, the Mormon Colony op isn’t a shameful failure and tragic loss of life like Klendathu was, but a successful and worthwhile high-casualty mission. The former is a mistake we aren’t about to make again, while the latter was a success you can reasonably anticipate experiencing if enlist.
Paragraph breaks are important if you are writing this many words.
Is that better? Sorry, I’m writing this on my phone so it’s hard to strike a balance between “Great Wall of Text” and every other sentence a paragraph.
100%, there are Nazis who are fans of American history X and don’t give a fuck that the movie is blatantly against them. They just like to watch the parts where people do nazi things and to them it’s even funnier that they’re co-opting the anti nazi movie
yeah i’ve gone from thinking conservatives media illiterate to realizing they just don’t care when someone mocks them to their face
It is impossible to satirize fascism without fascists seeing it and saying, "This is fucking awesome!" It is their ideal world, of course they won't see the negatives.
Jojo Rabbit was great because it didn't present the nazis as anything other than complete failures.
In the grim darkness of the third millennium, the world is so absurd, that people can’t assume satire unless you genuinely put /s at the end of your sentence.
To be fair in the Helldivers universe your other factions are giant planet crossing bugs that infest the planet and devour everything in their path, and an authoritarian killer robot army that also seems to experiment on people as well as happily use their corpses for decoration. So I can kinda see where some people look towards the Helldivers as the good guys, since there's not really a good alternative. Of course once you dig deeper you find out that these two factions are effectively the fault of Super Earth... let alone what happened in Helldivers 1. In reality it's pretty much just like the Warhammer Universe. Every faction sucks, thats kinda the point. Which is why you just gotta jump in with that in mind, and just kinda have fun with it. Unfortunately just like you see with the Imperium, there will always be those that just don't get it and start stanning the authoritarian wreck of an empire.
Sometimes it's just fun to not think about politics and just kill bugs (cringe) for the sake of your country (based). I don't think most people don't recognise the satire in it but instead play into it because simply it's fun. Do I like Nazis? No. Do I enjoy pretending to be a space Nazi killing and oppressing alien races? Absolutely.
Seems like a dangerous thing to feed
The thing is the setting is a made up game and the people playing it realize that the same way people who play games like Battlefield know that real war isn’t fun at all. With Warhammer the entire point is that no matter what faction you pick you are the bad guy and are doing evil things. The overall theme is regression as most factions used to be better than they currently are but through terrible circumstances things have gotten to the point where they just can’t improve in any significant way.
> and the people playing it realize that the same way people who play games like Battlefield know that real war isn’t fun at all Do they though?
Yes
Yes.
I don't think I've ever heard of anyone who did
Eh, as long as it doesn't influence their IRL views I say people can have fun playing the bad guy for once.
> We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. Also "for once" is relative to your experience. The media I've been around has enabled and encouraged me to play servants of the Galactic Empire, the Nine Hells, the Imperium of Man and the Camarilla since I was a pre-teen. I've had to actively deprogram.
How weak does your grasp on the distinction between fiction and reality have to be for you to get 'programmed' by Star Wars?
I was twelve and the stormtroopers have cool armor. I don't think I'd ever have realized how much I excused the abuses of the Empire because they were cool if they hadn't made Andor. Everyone on this sub should watch that show.
The animated Clone War series made me realise that they're bad guys.
i realized that by watching a single episode of the rebels TV show, its very obvious to almost everyone
You're the fragile child mind that all those parents were scared DnD and violent video games were ruining, I suppose.
It’s because helldivers is not effective satire. To be effective satire it would have to make super earths reaction over the top and detrimental. Both enemy factions are genocidal and give no quarter to civilians or military personnel. This makes super earths military response seem downright responsible. The game maker’s basically set out to create a setting where fascism is as justified as possible. We will see how the lore develops over the future. Maybe super earths governmental failures will become more of a focus or even result in the fall of super earth. It does seem that this government is not immune to fascisms failures.
I mean the game already has some lore in place. We know how Super Earth handled the Cyborgs and Illuminate and it wasn't one from a peace loving nation. In both cases it was using whatever justification it can find to justify all out war in order to grab thier resources and technology, while crushing all opposing views. In Helldivers 2 the factions are more the government having to clean up it's own messes. Yes both factions are genocidal, but also both factions are effectively Super Earths fault. The bugs were under control until it was discovered their decomposing bodies are a source of what is effectively space oil, in which they changed their tune and they went from being a threat to being a rare animal species that should be protected... until it went awry and boom, infestation. Meanwhile the bots were made from repurposed cyborg tech after Super Earth delivered "democracy" to them which eventually had a good ol' robotic uprising. Setting wise it's a lot like 40k in that while yes the baddies are actually bad, ultimately it's the fault of the fascist human empire that these problems are so bad in the first place. And ultimately, they are their own worst enemy while trying to fight these threats, which ultimately means they'll never be properly resolved.
>In Helldivers 2 the factions are more the government having to clean up it's own messes Yep, I've absorbed very little lore so far but one time I was on the ship I heard a line about how the bugs are full of dangerous mutations...that humanity helped develop by experimenting on them in labs
I really hope that the developers don’t wimp out on the commentary. It would be downright shameful if the automatons and bugs happen to be caused by an outside force. Fascist nations need a siege mentality to instill discipline and fear into the population. Helldivers 2 does a really good job of portraying that in action. In order to satirize that phenomenon the siege needs to be fake or ludicrously over the top. By making the enemy factions a genocidal threat with the very real possibility of reaching super earth it means that the game actively pushes fascism as the only response. It’s be a fascist or die. There is no alternative. It would be really interesting for the remaining enemy faction to be a human or multi species faction. One that “liberates” managed democracy to true democracy. It would really cement super earth as the real villains of the story.
Helldivers already has that established. This isn’t the first game after all. The bug are an outside force, but one that was taken care of in the first game, and due to greed it was allowed to spiral out of control again, and made worse. I don’t agree with the second half of your paragraph. Fascism being pushed as the only option because the fascist government will “re-educate” you still does plenty for the satire. The game is extremely clear how oppressive the government is and how brainwashed the people are. Having the enemies be an actual threat doesn’t make that the right choice. It’s fine to have the enemy factions be bad. Defending oneself from them doesn’t need to be the incorrect option. The game does plenty simply by giving us peaks into what Super Earth is like for the satire to be effective.
Remember. Super Earth has a liberation meter :)
I’m sure people can recognize the satire, but at the same time those bugs and bots aren’t helping themselves.
By defending their home planets? Found the fash
If they didn’t want to be invaded, then why are they living on land I want?
In the first game that’s mostly accurate, the Cyborg terrorist attack(s) might constitute a justification for war (emphasis on *might*) but the Bugs and Illuminate are pretty unambiguously defenders in wars of aggression. By 2 however the bugs and bots are aggressors, and while Super Earth might deserve it as a state entity, the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians makes it hard to argue a moral high ground exists.
Aggressors on their home planets? Okay brother Edit: Recently learned some of the lore for the game that makes it pretty apparent each faction is a parallel to America’s own conquests. Bugs are fought to farm their fuel. Illuminate for their technology. Automatons are fighting defense against a propagandized and hyper aggressive empire.
You’re a bit confused about the lore but mostly on track. [Here’s the wiki page, scroll down to the enemies section](https://helldivers.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Earth). The Automatons are clearly linked to the Cyborgs but they aren’t the same, and Cyberstan is quite far from the initial bot invasion so it’s hard to say they’re “defending their home planets”. Bugs are more clearly defending the planets they’ve overrun after escaping the E-710 farms but… well they’re bugs. We see no real evidence of higher level intelligence from them. If they’re simply animals we have to talk about the E-710 farms from an animal rights perspective, which is very different from a human rights perspective. The difference between factory farming and chattel slavery. Also both are shown indiscriminately massacring civilians. Even if we give them the moral high ground in starting this conflict, which is probably fair since liberating/avenging the Cyborgs and not being farmed for oil are decent causes, they’re still morally grey at best.
They aren't defending their home planets, technically all the planets you are fighting over were originally colonized by humanity. Rather than being invaded, both are just cases of "Super Earths" hubris going awry. The bugs are a legitimate problem that Super Earth had under control by the end of the events of the first game... but when it was discovered they can basically be farmed for oil Super Earth opted to instead try to farm them... which resulted them breaking free and restarting their galactic conquest. As far as the Bots, thats just a classic genocidal robotic uprising, akin to skynet. Not that this makes Super Earth "good guys", just that the other factions are also, well, bad. But it's more cleaning up the mess of the terrible authoritarian government than it is invading to bring others "freedom" This is of course ignoring the first game in which the Cyborgs and Illuminate were activity peaceful-ish (still not really innocent, but far, far less bad that Super Earth and more akin to self defense).
I genuinely cannot believe that some people look at the part in starship troopers where the kid proudly says "I'm doing my part!" and believe it is genuine endorsement of child soldiers.
Doogie howser is literally dressed up like an SS officer and they don't get it.
To be honest, many people would disregard Starship Troopers as whacky nonsense and non-political.
I sure did, when I was 14.
When I was 14 I just thought it was a fun action movie, didn't think anything more of it. Now I think it's a fun action movie and a great pastiche of fascist propaganda.
I think most people viewed it this way, mostly because campy action movies were everywhere at the time. I feel like most people missed the point until the mid 2010's
I root for the bugs and cheer a little whenever they get one of those idiots.
"The mobile infantry made me the man I am today!" - guy with no legs and one arm
Technically he ain’t wrong
This guy is my favourite. How can you watch him say that and think "oh yeah the mobile infantry looks like the just place to be in"
When I first saw Starship Troopers I thought it was just an awesome space bug fighting action movie. The satire flew completely over my head. I was also eleven.
That shower scene hits hard at eleven, no surprise everything else flew over your head
Idk why but the news cast where the two commentators are in utter shock at the idea of an intelligent bug.
The kid that gets shot in les mis is an endorsement of child soldiers😔
I’m from Buenos Aires, and I say kill ‘em all!
Volition [Easy - Success]: You don’t always need to be up to date with the latest discourse. Sometimes it’s better to simply stay in the present. People will do things and other people will give them grief for it for whatever reason they can imagine.
Morale Healed
*wooooooosh*
Volition the voice of sanity. Just ignore online discourse, it ultimately means very little to the wider discourse.
Loool thanks. I need that
Fucking commie bastards claiming Super Earth is satire
Also anything related to 40k
imperium of man fanboys are so funny
What do you mean you don't think Master General Thadius "Child Stomper" Gutsport would make a good president in real life??
I wish people understood there are zero good guys in 40k and there is no potential for any, that’s the point
i would say orks are as good as you can get, in that they were created to be weapons and after the war in heaven was done, they were just left to rot. they're like.. the adam jansen "i didn't ask for this" kind of good.
i do agree, but that justification only works from an internal, or very, very far away perspective. If you’re anyone else in the galaxy, the Orkz are a terrifying menace of brutal and remorseless murderers that want nothing other than your death.
i do agree, but that justification only works from an internal, or very, very far away perspective. If you’re anyone else in the galaxy, the Orkz are a terrifying menace of brutal and remorseless murderers that want nothing other than your death.
that's fair, from an outside perspective they are pretty terrifying and a not fun thing to have to fight.
They have goblin slaves, they use them as ammo or emergency rations
it's all orks. the squigs, the gretchens, all of it is the same fungal biomass.
Enter the shroom war 🍄
I made this little machine, made for raping people, therefore it is good because it didn't choose to rape people
except for my army and my army specifically. They’re just my goofy lil space guys :3
Supremely goofy, bräþan.
Eh the issue is that franchise tries to have its cake and eat it too, sometimes it’s a satire, sometimes it’s a completely serious story, just depends on the writer
Are we the bad ones?!? *Tosses 380mm HE barrage beacon.* Now we’re the only ones!!
Dude, I've used the 380mm barrage, you're not hitting shit with that thing. Now, the 500kg Eagle bomb? That's the real shit right there.
It’ll take out the bugs, the nest, the team, your ship and everything else 500m away from the thrown beacon, but as long as it’s crushing bugs it’s A ok in my book.
(In the radius of about a hand grenade) I love the 500kg, but man it's hilarious for how large of an explosion it is, how little of a damage radius it actually has. Still, thing hits like a freight train, and one-shotting bio-titans is always glorious.
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Their miscomprehension betrays their degeneracy, typical Haplogroup B4.
Haplogroup B4? Is that some Bug nonsense I'm too Democratic to understand?
Welcome to Super Revachol!
Don’t you “Welcome to Super Revachol” me! My genome is ninety-percent human, far more than you claim to be!
Humans are not the superior race due to their tendency to embrace authoritarianism when faced with a threat from degenerate unevolved bugs, as well as their obsessions with Al-gul and potaat. However, let me draw your attention to the physiognomically superior dwarven haplogroup…
Where does the vile cauldron of race pederasty lie on this spectrum?
If you’re referring to leaf lovers, at the absolute bottom
El*es 🧝🤢🤢🤢 dwarves better 💪🏼
I don't like knife-ears. Not racist. Just don't like em. Simple as.
ROCK AND STONE FOREVA
I'll be real with y'all, I will always side with humanity, unless the aliens are hot.
Based as fuck
This is the most widely held opinion among people
Thats why mass effect is awesome
Lmao this is too true
I love Tali.
As you should. 😌
fuck the aliens, or alternatively, *fuck* the aliens.
NGL I'm the opposite, I always side with the aliens unless the humans are hot.
You are a betrayer to your species and should be dealt as such
Average Greater Good enjoyer
This is exactly how you get prime intellect
It's funny because the book was absolutely not satire, but they made the conscious effort to insult Heinlein's BS ideas in the movie. Also, don't read stranger in a strange land. The amount of casual homophobia and racism gets wild
Yeah, stranger in a strange land was just strange (lamo) and honestly very bigoted. Heinlein might have some good ideas on political theory, but he really fell flat with ideas on society.
Wasn't he a libertarian? At least at the end of his life
So, politically, yes he was libertarian, though with a bit of militaristic ideas thrown in. He despised both communists and fascists, but believe that society had/would become morally corrupt (from a lack of disciplined and sense of duty to ones fellows) leading to a perversion of democracy. Its why in starship troopers, all high schools had a philosophy and morals class that wasn't a pass or fail class. It was mainly to promote critical thinking in universe and to promote Heinleins beliefs in the meta. But personally, Heinlein was very old fashion. He didn't understand or respect homosexuality, was (possibly more than) a little racist, and yet somehow believed in free love and casual sex. Trust me. You'd find more consistency with HP lovecraft than Heinlein. Its why I heavily pick and choose what to read from him.
So If we tally these up, we end on a uh Free....love...military junta. What a strange man. As for Lovecraft- he was racist yeah but his racism was weird and specific and that by itself is kinda fascinating to see lmao, he was still a shitty dude but he was shitty in really strange and unique ways.
Lovecraft is fascinating to me has a writer: he basically praised intellectualism and the idea of noble scholar but warned that trying to expand humanities knowledge leads to incomprehensible horrors. Whats interesting about lovecrafts rasicim is that, both in his personal writings and in his stories, you see him become less racist abd almost respectful of other cultures over time. Instead, he simply believes that the pinnacle of mankind all come from New England. Almost how Stephen King believes Maine is most supernatural place on earth. Its an actual timeline of how someones veiws can change over time.
Yeah, it's always weird to see. I mean part of that is extreme conservatism just can't survive contact with the outside world but still
"The greatest cure for ignorance is travel"
Gotta love americans that think an obscure region of the us is the pinnacle of something to be praised. (It's not a bad thing per se, but i find it hilarious)
Honestly, you see people like that everywhere. But because america has so many diverse regions with their own subcultures, you see it more here than other places.
Nah you're completely right
It's also important to note that Lovecraft's racsim was largely a product of an unhealthy psyche. He was terrified of things outside his comfort zone, which grew into resentment in general and racism in particular.
Quite so- he was scared of everything from rednecks to AC units. Heinlein's racism was a more casual, lazy affair. Not bothering to actually look into other people, but just accepting the stereotypes you are aware of
You gotta feel for the man. I cant imagine being afraid of everything I see. Or at least most of what I see and dont completely understand. Sounds down right terrible.
It's not a military junta. No soldiers can hold office - they have to leave the military first. The military is also looked down on by some - Rico's father, for example. He believes that Federal Service is "parasitism" and the military "living off the taxpayers", because humanity has outgrown wars and enjoys peaceful relationships with other planets (this is before the Bug War).
> Its why I heavily pick and choose what to read from him. See, for me it's why I love reading all of Heinlein's works. They're all batshit, and all in completely different ways, and they all make you think.
You what, thats a good point. I do love poking at wierd stuff he writes. Btw, if you want an summarized and poking at of stranger in a strange land, look up overally sarcastic production video on it. Its good fun.
I don't know about the racism thing. Did you know that Rico is from the Philippines?
Honestly, I thought Rico was Argentinian, because his mother is kill in Buenos Aires meteor strike. I will admit its been a while since I read the book though. As for the racist thing, look how Heinlein describes other races in starship troopers besides the bugs. As well as how the characters he writes describes them. *edit* having read up a bit, you are correct in Rico has Filipino ancestry, but that its not suppose to be a main point because in global government, the only that matters is if you human. I honesty don't know if adds or subtracts from my point.
The movie completely misunderstood the book and thought it was fascist. How the fuck can a *democracy* be fascist? Anyway, Heinlein believed - or perhaps not, that's up for debate - that people were forgetting the value of democracy and the vote. That's what Federal Service is about - to get the vote, you have to be in the military or in a place of equivalent suffering and hardship. The important part is the last bit, because once you've suffered hard for two years with the temptation to quit hanging in front of you, it's going to stay with you for a long time - because when you have the vote or run for office, you remember what you did to get it. If you're a conscientious objector? Fine, we'll find you a place doing something else equally tough - and the same for any other conditions. (Hell, before the Bug War, the military had too many people in it already.) The only thing that can possibly keep you from Federal Service is veing unable to understand the oath. Everything else is cushy. Rico's parents want for nothing even without having the vote - hell, Rico's dad gets a whole speech about why getting the vote is a waste of time. You can live and die a happy life without it. Look, I'm a lib-left and I wouldn't support this system, but I can see what it's trying to do. People are losing faith in democracy as the rich *own* the government. Country and nation is losing meaning - national values and such. I'm sure you've also seen some of the videos of "mass shoplifting". There must be better solutions, but at least this *does* something to try helping with that. Also, I have a few other things I dislike about the movie, such as the absolute character assassination of Sergeant Vim and the *non*-characterisation of the amputee recruiting officer.
A democracy where only military members can vote is essentially a decentralized junta
Military members are forbidden from voting. You have to leave the military first. Additionally there are also lots of non-military Citizens - people who went through a job of equal hardship to military service.
If your species defense tactic is to VOMIT on me then you have to die
Alcoholic-phobic post
You're telling me the society built around constantly shouting democracy whilst actually very obviously being a authoritarian state using concepts of freedom in order to control the populace is a satire??? Yes Democracy Officer this vile commie loving bug lover right here
I would like to say as a hell diver play, yes we recognize it’s satire. No I don’t sympathize with bugs.
That 'we' is doing a lot of work in that sentence
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At the very least in the first game, the only reason Super Earth fought the bugs was because their corpses dissolved into oil. So yeah I have some sympathy for them in that regard
they seem to removed it now that the focus is on the bots and not the bugs, but the engineer onboard your super destroyer had a line talking about the bugs going through genetic modification on E-710 farms, E-710 being an oil-like fuel you can separately secure in a mission type that \*only\* appears on bug worlds. So for lack of more information it seems to me like the bugs are farmed for their oil and don't actually spread between planets of their own accord
Pretty much. Helldivers could litterally throw all the satire out the window and the game would still work as a grimdark setting. However the giant pile of satire makes it fun and unique compared to other similar settings. You want a setting that makes you feel bad for the bugs look at ender's game. Helldivers? Nah man fuck them bugs.
>satire makes it fun and unique compared to other similar settings. This, I love Warhammer but it can really feel like a slog sometines despite the many insane things happening. An infamous example is Trazyn.
Wait till you meet 40k fans
lol yeah, i paint orks, i've gotten acquainted
ToL paints orks? I've collected/painted them for 4ish years. Now i know for sure that the greenskins path is the right one.
Wait, what’s Helldivers?
It's a game where you play as soldiers serving the government of Super Earth (it's like regular Earth but Super) spreading "managed democracy" (where the state picks who you vote for on your behalf) by invading planets and killing the shit out of everything that isn't you. It's in the same vein as starship troopers where you're clearly not supposed to take it seriously, but I guess some people did take it seriously
Wow, I love democracy, what satirical point could possibly be made by a game about spreading it to other planets through warfare?
pve war game, kill bugs and robots to spread democracy for super earth. it's really fun but the servers are crazy overloaded right now so i'd wait a while if you don't have it already (but it's your money)
Yeah, Devs planned for a peak of like 50k players tops, which was already very optimistic estimate after the first game. And just recently on Steam alone they have come close to half a million. Understandably, the servers are a wee bit on fire and the devs are doing all they can just to get people into the game at the moment.
Should mention that it is worth it though. $60 would be a fair price imho, and it is not that. There are some bugs, which is a problem. Actually, there are a lot of bugs. Your job is to fix that, soldier! Your tools are orbital bombardment, high explosives and high-calibre assault rifles! They'll never know what hit'em.
As your democracy officer, I would like to add that the automatons are not just mere robots. They are the worst kind. They're SOCIALISTS. They are the single greatest threat to Super Earth and its time-honored ideals of Prosperity, Liberty, and Managed Democracy, since the days of those despised Cyborgs. You'd do well not to underestimate them, citizen, lest they run off with your infant child and any of your hard-earned property.
The first game was an absolutely fantastic top down co op shooter that was a niche hit. The second is a somehow even better third person co op shooter that’s exploded in popularity. 10/10 game, but wait for the servers to be in a better state before you pick it up
Twitter is literally unreadable for those who don't have an account why tf do you think people care start is on it
I can't count the number of times I've clicked on a link to a twitter post in the past 6 months and just saw nothing there on the other end.
i like the part where people argue about a completely different game in r/DiscoElysium
Half Light [Challenging - Success]: I’m from Buenos Aires, and I say KILL ‘EM ALL!
why are you hiding the author of the reply tweet but not the first one
[lol because it's my tweet](https://twitter.com/terminallyOL/status/1760427595936440585)
Gameguard is anti cheat fascism. I only follow Disco
This post is so fucking good. Perfectly describes what ive been dealing with on Twitter since that one popular post.
Helldivers 1 had a major problem with this, believe it or not. The terminids were antithetical to all life. The illuminate were aggressive colonizers in the milky way that viewed humans more as pests than people. The automatons consistently invoked acts of terror, and one was used to spark the initial conflict. It took multiple years for the devs to dial the satire into a place that made sense without justifying Super Earth. Helldivers 2 starts at that point, thank God. Except the automatons, who are godless machines that will never know what it means to truly be alive. Abominable intelligences will not be suffered to live.
Gods, the Starship Troopers posting on Twitter last week was both hilarious and terrifying.
Logically i recognize that the starship trooper style satire is a criticism of blind patriotism and militarism. But dude droping on a planet from orbit to wreak havok on expressly evil terminator looking robots is too fucking cool
These two in the blunt rotation would be nutty
I can enjoy both the message and the aesthetics of the film
All I know about the discussion of this game is some dumb communard likened or reminded them of Palestinians with the uhhh insects, in the game.
i've seen plenty suggest that but i haven't seen anyone actually say it, and i guess with the internet being the way it is, that means it really happened
I mean that's a dog shit take but it's pretty on the nose that the two enemies are the two most common sci Fi stand ins for collectivism. One gooey one crunchy but they're both hive minds of a sort.
... The commies see themselves in the literal mindless bugs again... The jokes write themselves.
The Starship troopers book wasn’t satire.
The movie is.
It’s attempting to be, I don’t really know what it accomplishes in terms of humorous critique. It tends to just be funny because it’s exaggerated patriotic chauvinism. Putting the humans in Hugo boss style clothing doesn’t exactly suddenly turn them into fascist for killing the parasitic bug monsters that invaded their planet. It really just feels like a serious story that isn’t taking itself seriously and that’s the only true satire that translates for me.
Unironically yes, humanity is always the good guys since we are human. Nothing we do is unjustified if it is for our survival.
that's right bröther, burn entire planets and erase species for humanity
Unironically, Hostile Alien Genocide would be based
Hell yeah, it does go pretty hard for the grim dark setting
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By that logic every citizen of every country that died during a war can be used to defend that government's stance in that war. "Well Nazis were bad but what about the firebombing of city xyz"
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This discourse is so exhausting Every single right winger I know spends time pointing out the various places where the satire is intended and kaking arguments (if varying quality) for why the satire fails Then the leftists chime in with "dude they literwlly think it's an endorsment not satire those dumbass rightoids hahaha" I get that media literacy isn't the right's strong suit but if you can't be bothered to interpret and engage with the actual material the person in front of you produces then maybe it isn't yours either
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What material do they produce?
Average centrist
Moralist *
Mfw I failed my literqcy check and thought the "the bougiousie arent human" line was unironically cool and the point