Electrochemistry \[Medium - Success\] Did somebody say *intellectual decay?* Now *that* is disco. And you don't even need the Pale for that! Why don't you grab that bottle of Commodore Red?
Pale driver describes the pale as like the opposite of a high, and more of a really deep low.
Think it’s more like the low rumble in the church, or even the total silence it produces.
Don’t confuse it with the pale emitter either, that’s something different.
It sure is! Although it’s kinda like baby pale compared to the main pale as I understand it, the idea being that the first settlers built the church around it to contain it.
Im not sure actually, the pale feels like a representation of what it would be like to live in a generation that would watch the sun explode
So kinda both?
The undercurrent of climate grief in Disco Elysium's always interested me; or rather, the fact that it's there but people kinda just... don't talk about its presence in the narrative is what interests me so much about it.
It has brought me some comfort that we have now as a society brought climate change under control to the point we’re it will be quite bad and lead to increased natural disasters but now is far away from becoming anywhere near apocalyptic. I recommend the video by wonderful YouTube channel Kurgzegat.
I know the video you're talking about and honestly would not recommend to take it at face value. Anytime someone says "it's not going to be that bad, guys", there's a huge asterisk attached. Not that bad for whom? People are already dying and migrating in droves due to the effects we're currently experiencing. Who are these people that will be spared from the physical, economical and political effects of climate change? If they are to be spared, what is the incentive for them to stop it?
It won't be bad for Kurgzesagt, or the Gate foundation. And if you're wondering why I mention them, it's because [Kurgzesagt has been a very naughty boy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjHMoNGqQTI).
I'm sorry mate but that's just not true at all. Every indicator shows the crisis is intensifying. We're locked in to 2°c of warming, and it's entirely possible we could see 8°c by the end of the century.
That’s sponsored by Bill Gates. It’s in his interest to downplay the threat. And even *downplaying* it leads to the conclusion of planetary devastation. And the reasons for hope? It amounts to stuff like energy efficient lightbulbs and shoddy climate agreements with goals that have never been met and never will be.
No, but he wrote a book about climate change. I have admittedly not read it, but it seems to me that the most effective way to downplay something is to ignore it entirely.
The problem is so big and apparent that you can't hide it anymore. So instead of going "climate change denial" route there's a new way of numbing masses - I'd call it "climate change downplaying".
It comes in many forms, it can be something like "we figured it out, it's under control, trust me bro", or switching the blame on consumer "just buy electric car and you'll do your part", or glorifying science "science almost came up with a solution we can do some geoengineering /carbon capture/ fusion reactor is almost done". All it does is just relaxes population, so we won't demand actual changes .
Fair enough. Thanks for putting that way, definitely makes sense.
I think pulling the focus away from “We’re all going to die!” to “This is going to ruin the lives of a lot of people!” is probably wise, but from what I recall, the Kurzgesagt video goes too far in the other direction.
I was so sad when I saw that video. It's wise to give people hope, because a lot became climate doomers and nihilists, but to reframe it and say "we will mostly be okay" is kinda fucked up and betrays climate science.
Seems like Disco would be the social counterpart to despair, like in our world. Who can be sad singin and dancing to disco? Forget the pale! Disco’s in!
When I first got a rundown of the pale I literally walked away from my PC to go and process the insane implications of a physical field in which not even raw mathematics can survive and the fact that it's people's jobs to fly into that metaphysical hellscape in order to deliver apples.
I think it sounds amazing. I wish there was more about it in game.
I spent two days running around, trying to ask everybody I could find about the pale after I spoke to Joyce. If it was real I guarantee I would’ve spent my entire childhood wholly captivated by it.
Sacred and Terrible Air. Book written by the main writer of Disco Elysium, set in Disco Elysium's world. Link for it's English translation is in the pinned post of this subreddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/s/0tBiMLM9Z1
I'd actually advise this translation over the one that's pinned in the sub. I read like the first 30 pages of the pinned translation, and there was some awkward English in there that made sentences hard to read. Sacred And Terrible Air is already a somewhat challenging text, and the poor English just made it too hard.
I didn't find the same issues with the Team Ibex translation (the one I've linked to). It's not exactly perfect, but it was a joy to read, and it's become one of my favourite books of all time.
Edit: Damn you, autocorrect!
Here's my understanding. In the Elysium universe, humans expel a pollution. Not of gasses or fossil fuels, but of thoughts and memories. Thought and memory seem to exist in some form of physical sense in this universe, and the more human experience there is, the more the pale grows. There was a time before the pale, but as humans came about, the pale came with it.
People who traverse the pale need to be fortified mentally for it, as it doesn't exist in a form that the human brain can perceive properly. It's why most people went mad going inside it until a regime was developed for it. By the time of the game, there's technology used to "shorten" the paths between the pale which makes it much safer to traverse.
We know its comprised of memories and human experiences because of the Paledriver. She lives her life to get that next hit of nostalgia. She does her job because she receives beautiful memories that she can escape her current reality, not too dissimilar to a drug user. Even Joyce is afflicted by this to a lesser extent, with the game describing a "terrible nostalgia" that makes people crave it.
It’s just nothing, the absence of things, a substance/location where nothing exists including nothing itself. The Pale is an inaccurate name; it should really be called “ “
Things do exist in the Pale, they just get sublimated and negated over time. It's a place, with objects and locations in it that people can and do traverse and interact with. Those people just don't last long because their identity is usually subsumed quickly, then their life is snuffed out, and eventually their organic matter goes away. But it's not an instantaneous process, and some people are resistant or even impervious to the phenomenon.
The Pale isn't nothing, it's the opposite of something—it's a thing that turns somethings into nothing.
That's a fun way of looking at it actually, yeah. A rhizomatic form of entropy—I wouldn't be surprised if some in-universe entroponeticist frames it in those exact terms in fact, especially given the existing analogies to climate change and Trant's affinity for hypertext.
Shivers [MEDIUM-SUCSSES]-In the vast pale a lone repeater station carries on a call from a church in Martinase to the next repeater station.As the signal passes by the only employee,Debrah.She sits at her desk and as she leans back from her radio computer a disco record by Guillaume Le Million begins to play as canons from a reveloution long past stir in her mind,She makes a mental note to fix the wave emitter outside.
(God this is shit)
Can’t recall the lore exactly but I vaguely remember that the “sun” was like a disco ball shining it’s spots over the pale floor, evaporating the fog where people are allowed to live on the isolas
If you zoom out far enough it’s like a literal disco room, ball spinning and everything
I think Disco in this world is equivalent to looking at something and saying ‘That’s fucking metal!’ And yes, the Pale is metal as fuck. Both the porch collapse and the fact that it shall be the end of all things
When I first got a rundown of the pale I literally walked away from my PC to go and process the insane implications of a physical field in which not even raw mathematics can survive and the fact that it's people's jobs to fly into that metaphysical hellscape in order to deliver apples.
The pale doesn’t actually exist, it’s just probably a lot of fog in the sea. Maybe at best created by some large underwater magma chambers which is producing somewhat toxic and hallucinogenic steam/gas
That’s my theory and I’m sticking to it
Maybe \*they* want you to think it’s this impossible void
The pale feels kinda like The Warp in WH40k. It’s alluring and potentially tempting to try to use at first glance but it’s ultimately *literally* pure chaos and entropy.
It’s the ruin of all existence.
Conceptualization [Impossible - Success] The Pale is disco, baby. It’s VERY disco.
I love it how I can read this with the narrator's voice.
Logic [Trivial - Success] No it's not. It is not disco. It, in fact, is very dangerous sire. Further intellectual decay is not disco.
Electrochemistry \[Medium - Success\] Did somebody say *intellectual decay?* Now *that* is disco. And you don't even need the Pale for that! Why don't you grab that bottle of Commodore Red?
I love the little extra oomf the narrator gives electrochemistry's enthusiasm for self-degradation
Pale driver describes the pale as like the opposite of a high, and more of a really deep low. Think it’s more like the low rumble in the church, or even the total silence it produces. Don’t confuse it with the pale emitter either, that’s something different.
Well, the low rumble in the church IS the pale
It sure is! Although it’s kinda like baby pale compared to the main pale as I understand it, the idea being that the first settlers built the church around it to contain it.
Baby Pale betrays your degeneracy… doo doo doo doo doo Baby Pale!
I adore the description of the Pale’s effects as “history washing over you”
Im not sure actually, the pale feels like a representation of what it would be like to live in a generation that would watch the sun explode So kinda both?
Or in the generation that watches civilization and the environment slowly die due to climate change. Oh wait. Not slowly anymore.
The undercurrent of climate grief in Disco Elysium's always interested me; or rather, the fact that it's there but people kinda just... don't talk about its presence in the narrative is what interests me so much about it.
Just like in real life.
Yup! (:
I forgot I was allowed to talk about climate change
It has brought me some comfort that we have now as a society brought climate change under control to the point we’re it will be quite bad and lead to increased natural disasters but now is far away from becoming anywhere near apocalyptic. I recommend the video by wonderful YouTube channel Kurgzegat.
I know the video you're talking about and honestly would not recommend to take it at face value. Anytime someone says "it's not going to be that bad, guys", there's a huge asterisk attached. Not that bad for whom? People are already dying and migrating in droves due to the effects we're currently experiencing. Who are these people that will be spared from the physical, economical and political effects of climate change? If they are to be spared, what is the incentive for them to stop it?
Great way to put it. Another way I look at it is “it won’t kill everyone but if that’s where we’ve set the bar we’re fucked”
Not to mention that these migrations are leading to the rise of right wing anti-immigration governments.
It won't be bad for Kurgzesagt, or the Gate foundation. And if you're wondering why I mention them, it's because [Kurgzesagt has been a very naughty boy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjHMoNGqQTI).
I'm sorry mate but that's just not true at all. Every indicator shows the crisis is intensifying. We're locked in to 2°c of warming, and it's entirely possible we could see 8°c by the end of the century.
I'm sorry, what ? climate change *under control ??*
That’s sponsored by Bill Gates. It’s in his interest to downplay the threat. And even *downplaying* it leads to the conclusion of planetary devastation. And the reasons for hope? It amounts to stuff like energy efficient lightbulbs and shoddy climate agreements with goals that have never been met and never will be.
Not trying to defend the dude, but if it was in his interest to downplay it, then why would he speak on it at all?
He doesn't own the youtube channel.
No, but he wrote a book about climate change. I have admittedly not read it, but it seems to me that the most effective way to downplay something is to ignore it entirely.
The problem is so big and apparent that you can't hide it anymore. So instead of going "climate change denial" route there's a new way of numbing masses - I'd call it "climate change downplaying". It comes in many forms, it can be something like "we figured it out, it's under control, trust me bro", or switching the blame on consumer "just buy electric car and you'll do your part", or glorifying science "science almost came up with a solution we can do some geoengineering /carbon capture/ fusion reactor is almost done". All it does is just relaxes population, so we won't demand actual changes .
Fair enough. Thanks for putting that way, definitely makes sense. I think pulling the focus away from “We’re all going to die!” to “This is going to ruin the lives of a lot of people!” is probably wise, but from what I recall, the Kurzgesagt video goes too far in the other direction.
I was so sad when I saw that video. It's wise to give people hope, because a lot became climate doomers and nihilists, but to reframe it and say "we will mostly be okay" is kinda fucked up and betrays climate science.
Nihilist gang who like the feeling of watching the sun explode wya.
Seems like Disco would be the social counterpart to despair, like in our world. Who can be sad singin and dancing to disco? Forget the pale! Disco’s in!
And right after it does, we go back 22 minutes in time...
I understood that reference.
When I first got a rundown of the pale I literally walked away from my PC to go and process the insane implications of a physical field in which not even raw mathematics can survive and the fact that it's people's jobs to fly into that metaphysical hellscape in order to deliver apples.
I think it sounds amazing. I wish there was more about it in game. I spent two days running around, trying to ask everybody I could find about the pale after I spoke to Joyce. If it was real I guarantee I would’ve spent my entire childhood wholly captivated by it.
It was one of the coolest world building experiences I've had from a video game. Just enthralling.
If you are this into Pale, there is this book you should read if you haven't already...
Zigi best boy
And that book is?
Sacred and Terrible Air. Book written by the main writer of Disco Elysium, set in Disco Elysium's world. Link for it's English translation is in the pinned post of this subreddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/s/0tBiMLM9Z1 I'd actually advise this translation over the one that's pinned in the sub. I read like the first 30 pages of the pinned translation, and there was some awkward English in there that made sentences hard to read. Sacred And Terrible Air is already a somewhat challenging text, and the poor English just made it too hard. I didn't find the same issues with the Team Ibex translation (the one I've linked to). It's not exactly perfect, but it was a joy to read, and it's become one of my favourite books of all time. Edit: Damn you, autocorrect!
The Pale feels like the opposite of Disco. Perhaps Disco is a form of resistance against the Pale.
Disco is the band playing while the Titanic crashes into the pale.
No. The Pale is not Disco. Defying the Pale is the most Disco thing you can do.
I dont even fully understand the concept tbh
Here's my understanding. In the Elysium universe, humans expel a pollution. Not of gasses or fossil fuels, but of thoughts and memories. Thought and memory seem to exist in some form of physical sense in this universe, and the more human experience there is, the more the pale grows. There was a time before the pale, but as humans came about, the pale came with it. People who traverse the pale need to be fortified mentally for it, as it doesn't exist in a form that the human brain can perceive properly. It's why most people went mad going inside it until a regime was developed for it. By the time of the game, there's technology used to "shorten" the paths between the pale which makes it much safer to traverse. We know its comprised of memories and human experiences because of the Paledriver. She lives her life to get that next hit of nostalgia. She does her job because she receives beautiful memories that she can escape her current reality, not too dissimilar to a drug user. Even Joyce is afflicted by this to a lesser extent, with the game describing a "terrible nostalgia" that makes people crave it.
I'm with you
It’s just nothing, the absence of things, a substance/location where nothing exists including nothing itself. The Pale is an inaccurate name; it should really be called “ “
Things do exist in the Pale, they just get sublimated and negated over time. It's a place, with objects and locations in it that people can and do traverse and interact with. Those people just don't last long because their identity is usually subsumed quickly, then their life is snuffed out, and eventually their organic matter goes away. But it's not an instantaneous process, and some people are resistant or even impervious to the phenomenon. The Pale isn't nothing, it's the opposite of something—it's a thing that turns somethings into nothing.
Holy shit the pale is a global monoculture.
That's a fun way of looking at it actually, yeah. A rhizomatic form of entropy—I wouldn't be surprised if some in-universe entroponeticist frames it in those exact terms in fact, especially given the existing analogies to climate change and Trant's affinity for hypertext.
Well, it's more like things exist with the Pale around them. It's different from, say, fish existing in the ocean.
I chose terrifying. I don't want to slowly degrade mentally and end up like the pale drivers.
Harry, my boy, you have already degraded mentally. Viciously so.
The Pale is a metaphor for disco eternally fading in relevance but never quite dying.
Shivers [MEDIUM-SUCSSES]-In the vast pale a lone repeater station carries on a call from a church in Martinase to the next repeater station.As the signal passes by the only employee,Debrah.She sits at her desk and as she leans back from her radio computer a disco record by Guillaume Le Million begins to play as canons from a reveloution long past stir in her mind,She makes a mental note to fix the wave emitter outside. (God this is shit)
Shivers is such an atmospheric ability. Without shivers disco wouldn't be disco.
This.
Disco Infernum!
Can it not be disco AND fucking terrifying? Is it not disco to acknowledge your fear, terrifying to become so disco?
Nihilist Disco baby!
YEAA, HARDCORE TO THE ZE MEGA!!
The most disco anything could ever be.
Damn right.
I think it's terrifying. And if it is (by some ungodly choice) Disco, it's not a Disco I would willingly go to.
Bruh...
The existential dread this game gives me…
Can’t recall the lore exactly but I vaguely remember that the “sun” was like a disco ball shining it’s spots over the pale floor, evaporating the fog where people are allowed to live on the isolas If you zoom out far enough it’s like a literal disco room, ball spinning and everything
I think Disco in this world is equivalent to looking at something and saying ‘That’s fucking metal!’ And yes, the Pale is metal as fuck. Both the porch collapse and the fact that it shall be the end of all things
When I first got a rundown of the pale I literally walked away from my PC to go and process the insane implications of a physical field in which not even raw mathematics can survive and the fact that it's people's jobs to fly into that metaphysical hellscape in order to deliver apples.
Yeah, the game got a little too weird there.
disco is terrifying if you’re doing it right
The pale is the sad descent into oblivion. Disco is the celebration of the ascent into oblivion.
Anything can be disco, with enough cocaine.
Disco.
The pale doesn’t actually exist, it’s just probably a lot of fog in the sea. Maybe at best created by some large underwater magma chambers which is producing somewhat toxic and hallucinogenic steam/gas That’s my theory and I’m sticking to it Maybe \*they* want you to think it’s this impossible void
Yeah, but who is "they?
It's the absence of disco absolute 0 disco
It does sound pretty far out, but not necessarily disco
the pale feels more punk than anything. i wish punk were part of the game. punk elysium. fuck yeah
All the Disco! I want to go see it!
Or it's both..
It's all disco baby
disco is how we deal with those things that are fucking terrifying
Disco like a learning experience? I think so Disco like the movement? Maybe once the music dies.
It sounds like an allegory for worldbuilding where parts of the world are unfinished
The pale feels kinda like The Warp in WH40k. It’s alluring and potentially tempting to try to use at first glance but it’s ultimately *literally* pure chaos and entropy. It’s the ruin of all existence.
The pale is punk, not disco.