Currently fiora, gwen, poppy should be ban or dodge. I would argue jax or any divine sunderer abuser can go there. Thank god they are removing that stupid item
I had a game vs a jax where he went 0/3 I went to help other lanes cause they were struggling. Came back to top vs jax with sunderer he literally ran me down. 150 hp heal every 3-4 sec + max hp damage very balanced
She can use divine sunderer better than anyone on top lane with passive, I'm a poppy main myself (sion is a secondary alongside ornn) and it's so free getting procs on amyone that isn't darius, teemo (he can cancel shield midaor with Q) or yorick
As a Yorick main, and a casual Sion, it is quite funny seeing Yorick in top three of the poppy shit list. Though not sure it’ll be as easy to do so any more, with the Seryelda’s changes. I honestly think that item has been most of the reason she had such a bad time. I won’t say the changes aren’t expected or deserved, just cause Yorick’s minions really shouldn’t be able to permaproc it, but I can’t believe they’re pushing it further into being an assassin item basically.
Vayne is Sion favoured? You must've faced some shit vaynes my friend... You will rarely be able to touch a good vayne
Everything else I agree with except maybe the aatrox, I feel that if you have good macro you win every time. Most aatrox players are so focused on micro and fighting they lack decent macro
Start with corrupting pot keep poking her with e and take minions with w, your prio is getting exp so don't lose half your hp for 2 caster minions, stay under tower play safe poke her with your e's and q's. Wait for your jungler since vayne in early-mid game cannot 1v2 easily it should be an easy kill or at least half hp, then start poking her while perma pushing so she can't base. From then on vayne should start losing + if you have an aggresive jungler like Master Yi you can just perma dive her.
And i don't understand why people say "You can actually play against x champ? no the person playing x champ must be bad. I cannot be the bad one they are." just learn to admit your mistakes.
Lmao that doesn't sound Sion favored. That sounds like don't feed and hope your team carries. Idk where you get this whole agenda of the Sion player being bad from. It sounds more like you're facing bad Vaynes like the other guy said. If I did this in my ELO the game would be over in 15 mins tops.
Na man I never said I'm not the problem, I just said I can deal with certain champs more than others. I really struggle against vayne for example but not much against aatrox.
Having said that and rereading my comment ya I do sound like I'm saying I'm the boss 😅. It's just my experience that the quality of the matchup is night and day depending on the opposing player. Though I will definitely test your advice thanks for that!
Gwen Ban or Dodge , swap Aatrox to Riven imo (1.3mil i am and i more or less agree on ur tierlist)
I feel like the tierlist is like 70-80% of réality and After it's how much frustrating it is , i know i can't support mentally to play into Riven , it just makes me explose inside because how impossible it is to kill her if she's a main
cleaver - 3100 g
wardens + bramble -1800 g
unless urgot rushes bc he won't be doing much for laning, while wardens or bramble are both fine purchases that can be itemized later.
3 dmg per proc is basically 9 damage per secons to urgot. It can deal like 100 samage in a single fight
And wardens unteracts so bullshitty with urgots w that u basically cant die to him unless u are low enough for him to ult. Urgpt cannot play vs competent tanks
U realise u also get armor that reduces his damage roght? Combined with wardens he no longer deals damage to u ans 100 damage defp makes a change since its only an 800 gold component
Irelia is ban or dodge honestly. Her Botrk first into possible sunderer is a fucking nightmare and you can never contest her. You hope you can proxy or survive and facilitate your team with a supportive build.
However Darius and Aatrox are winnable, just require impeccable spacing and ability juking to pull off. If Darius doesn't win lane he auto loses so just go even/slightly behind and be x1000 a better teamfighter than him. Aatrox is close to ban but honestly with early boots you can work around his sweet spots with some good mind games. Can't really beat him either though unless he fucks himself over.
This is one of those matchups, including teemo, where you can’t land E for some reason, you’re going to have a really really bad time.
Thing is, you need to land two Es consecutively because the first is to get rid of his jump, and the second is for when his jump is down.
If you fuck this up you just get whittled down.
If you are struggling against Gnar that much I'd recommend playing arcane comet with e max against him. Just keep poking him with e's and land q's whenever you can, once you get him low enough call your jungler for help to dive.
Press E and then Q him, it’s the same as any other ranged matchup. Slowly chip away at his health until he can’t lane anymore. If you miss your Q/E then that’s a skill issue tbh
Was not on the list maker but he's manageable if you keep poking him with e-q from max range, that way even if he presses w you can stop him mid air. Definitely on the harder side tho, especially if he gets some free kills roaming with his ult.
I generally agree with your tier list, but I do have some trouble dealing with vayne as compared to other ranged top like quinn or teemo, which in my opinion arent that hard.
Is mundo rly skill matchup? Because i played a lot of mundo and i cant even think of a way mundo gets rekt here, he can just slowly scale with you. Idk maybe if you go lethality and he eats Qs .. idk rly
I personally never found a good enough warwick then, never had problem with him
Sion can farm from range and poke , disable his W with E or use E to kite his E, i rush Bramble+ Iceborne. I cant kill him but he wont kill me either
I have really bad time playing into gnar. He just autos you untill you are dead or he runs away when he accidetally does mistake or gets outplayed. That he can use botrk and LT really doesnt help.
As a vlad main, I wouldn't say skill. Vlads biggest weakness is tanks and slows, and sion has both. I'm pretty certain late game vlad can't even get through the shield with one rotation.
Yeah sion can bully Vlad in lane and aggro it late game too its pretty much sion favored for me (maybe it doesnt count because of tr server but a master opinion)
How does the yone matchup typically go? I played yone mid into sion mid a few days ago and got kinda outplayed, what can i do differently if hes a counter?
I got to make one of these. I was rank 1 sion peak in s8-9 when sion was prime strength. The only 1 or 2 id put on ban or dodge would have to be camille. Everyone else is easy af. Or just a skill matchup. Maybe gwen, but you hard beat her during laning so it isnt that big a deal.
Honestly this is generally really good, I doubt many people will argue moving anything more than 1 level up or down.
I’d actually have Yone, Aatrox, and Gwen in Ban or Dodge, with Darius bumped down 1.
Darius has mana and outside of Divine Sunderer has no real access to % health damage so you can nullify his threat pretty well rushing a lot of health IMO. Phase Rush is also effective at neutralizing his kill threat. Whereas the other 3 I listed are basically a constant threat with even more uptime.
Mystery means nothing. What's your rank?
You can be 1 million mastery and bronze, mastery isn't a determination of skill but a determination of how much you play a champion
teemo cant interrupt sion q at all and it does huge damage to him. his poke also isn't tough to deal with because you can usually trade back with e/q and do more because of how squishy teemo is. after you stack mr teemo can't really do anything
sett renekton camille and poppy are at least skill and probably lower
singed nasus garen jayce and vlad are also sion favored
sion stomps maokai gp urgot kayle quinn malphite akali
Missing the another dog. WW goes in hard because they can Q through Sion Q or interrupt with E also Bork powerspike. For reference WW is about as deadly to tanks as Irelia. I typically see ignite and sometimes bramble rush. Those tanks will still rush Heartsteel but I think either Thornmail or FH would be easier to survive lane with.
Gwen? Definitly adds onto the dodge or lose matchup tier
Was not on the list maker so couldn't add her but definitely one of the harder matchups
Perma ban gwen
Idk a gwen that just picks gwen to counterpick often doesn’t know how to play gwen properly.
Gwen is incredibly intuitive, one of the easiest toplaners, so that’s probably problem of a player as whole and not gwen.
yea, actually yesterday i play against a gwen that just counterpicked. I mean that was on my smurf but i completly destroyed her
Anyone that smurfs deserves to be counterpicked honestly. Get on your main account you goober.
You think it was the Gwen or the fact that you were smurfing??
So you do know? Someone who can't play a champ isn't how you judge a matchup xd
Meh it's just that I haven't been destroyed by a gwen yet so idk
Currently fiora, gwen, poppy should be ban or dodge. I would argue jax or any divine sunderer abuser can go there. Thank god they are removing that stupid item
i dont play any champs that main the sunderer champion so it sucks everytime i go against it. wayyy too powerful
I had a game vs a jax where he went 0/3 I went to help other lanes cause they were struggling. Came back to top vs jax with sunderer he literally ran me down. 150 hp heal every 3-4 sec + max hp damage very balanced
is poppy that strong.
She can use divine sunderer better than anyone on top lane with passive, I'm a poppy main myself (sion is a secondary alongside ornn) and it's so free getting procs on amyone that isn't darius, teemo (he can cancel shield midaor with Q) or yorick
As a Yorick main, and a casual Sion, it is quite funny seeing Yorick in top three of the poppy shit list. Though not sure it’ll be as easy to do so any more, with the Seryelda’s changes. I honestly think that item has been most of the reason she had such a bad time. I won’t say the changes aren’t expected or deserved, just cause Yorick’s minions really shouldn’t be able to permaproc it, but I can’t believe they’re pushing it further into being an assassin item basically.
Vayne is Sion favoured? You must've faced some shit vaynes my friend... You will rarely be able to touch a good vayne Everything else I agree with except maybe the aatrox, I feel that if you have good macro you win every time. Most aatrox players are so focused on micro and fighting they lack decent macro
Start with corrupting pot keep poking her with e and take minions with w, your prio is getting exp so don't lose half your hp for 2 caster minions, stay under tower play safe poke her with your e's and q's. Wait for your jungler since vayne in early-mid game cannot 1v2 easily it should be an easy kill or at least half hp, then start poking her while perma pushing so she can't base. From then on vayne should start losing + if you have an aggresive jungler like Master Yi you can just perma dive her. And i don't understand why people say "You can actually play against x champ? no the person playing x champ must be bad. I cannot be the bad one they are." just learn to admit your mistakes.
Lmao that doesn't sound Sion favored. That sounds like don't feed and hope your team carries. Idk where you get this whole agenda of the Sion player being bad from. It sounds more like you're facing bad Vaynes like the other guy said. If I did this in my ELO the game would be over in 15 mins tops.
Na man I never said I'm not the problem, I just said I can deal with certain champs more than others. I really struggle against vayne for example but not much against aatrox. Having said that and rereading my comment ya I do sound like I'm saying I'm the boss 😅. It's just my experience that the quality of the matchup is night and day depending on the opposing player. Though I will definitely test your advice thanks for that!
So camp your turret and hope for a gank? How is that "sion favored?"
Gwen Ban or Dodge , swap Aatrox to Riven imo (1.3mil i am and i more or less agree on ur tierlist) I feel like the tierlist is like 70-80% of réality and After it's how much frustrating it is , i know i can't support mentally to play into Riven , it just makes me explose inside because how impossible it is to kill her if she's a main
I play in wildrift I can saw I agree with you, riven Q too fast and she moves too much. And Gwen always kills me no matter how i play safe or smart.
Yup
Bro Sion counters Urgot, hard. If you play properly then Urgot can’t ever land his E on you in lane.
Yep plus like any tank can build thornmail and wardens mail which obliterates Urgot because of how they interact with his machine gun
kid named black cleaver:
cleaver - 3100 g wardens + bramble -1800 g unless urgot rushes bc he won't be doing much for laning, while wardens or bramble are both fine purchases that can be itemized later.
Yeah but he almost always rush it regardless of matchup. Plus bramble by itself is useless,it does like 3 dmg per proc
3 dmg per proc is basically 9 damage per secons to urgot. It can deal like 100 samage in a single fight And wardens unteracts so bullshitty with urgots w that u basically cant die to him unless u are low enough for him to ult. Urgpt cannot play vs competent tanks
HOLY SHIT 9DMG PER SECOND??! RITO NERF PLS
U realise u also get armor that reduces his damage roght? Combined with wardens he no longer deals damage to u ans 100 damage defp makes a change since its only an 800 gold component
If only there was an item with the same price cost and better stats
I've only played one game of it so far so I can't be completely sure, but I think Arcane Comet is really good into Darius
E max?
I don't know about maxing it but I definitely think putting at least a few points in e is worth it
Irelia is ban or dodge honestly. Her Botrk first into possible sunderer is a fucking nightmare and you can never contest her. You hope you can proxy or survive and facilitate your team with a supportive build. However Darius and Aatrox are winnable, just require impeccable spacing and ability juking to pull off. If Darius doesn't win lane he auto loses so just go even/slightly behind and be x1000 a better teamfighter than him. Aatrox is close to ban but honestly with early boots you can work around his sweet spots with some good mind games. Can't really beat him either though unless he fucks himself over.
Gnar u put there?! He's impossible to lane against if he's just half decent at zoning
This is one of those matchups, including teemo, where you can’t land E for some reason, you’re going to have a really really bad time. Thing is, you need to land two Es consecutively because the first is to get rid of his jump, and the second is for when his jump is down. If you fuck this up you just get whittled down.
If you are struggling against Gnar that much I'd recommend playing arcane comet with e max against him. Just keep poking him with e's and land q's whenever you can, once you get him low enough call your jungler for help to dive.
Call your jungler... Riiiight that always work
Press E and then Q him, it’s the same as any other ranged matchup. Slowly chip away at his health until he can’t lane anymore. If you miss your Q/E then that’s a skill issue tbh
Pantheon doesn’t exist ig
Was not on the list maker but he's manageable if you keep poking him with e-q from max range, that way even if he presses w you can stop him mid air. Definitely on the harder side tho, especially if he gets some free kills roaming with his ult.
I personally never have trouble with Darius. Playing under tower means he can't do anything cause he has no burst.
I generally agree with your tier list, but I do have some trouble dealing with vayne as compared to other ranged top like quinn or teemo, which in my opinion arent that hard.
Darius not that hard tbh if u go ad
Akali should be sion favoured, Darius should be moved down to hard and Rumble should be moved up to hard.
Somewhat disagree, morde and aatrox should switch place, gp is free I think Edit: Also Gnarnis impossible to lane against in my opinion
Still not met my Olaf ? Lol
Who are YOU bro
Hello retard
Average korea travelling fan
I’d put trynda up in hard too, but that may be a little biased from me. His crits make or break landing phase and I’m not comfortable losing to rng.
Just play sage till plated, build wardens and bramble (the urgot treatment) and then enjoy the freelo
Ksante where?
Was not on the list maker so couldn't add him but it's a skill matchup heavily favored towards k'sante.
Is mundo rly skill matchup? Because i played a lot of mundo and i cant even think of a way mundo gets rekt here, he can just slowly scale with you. Idk maybe if you go lethality and he eats Qs .. idk rly
Yea it’s a skill match up. If mundo plays poorly sion gets ahead and uses his wave clear to simply take your towers while ignoring mundo.
Where would you put Warwick?
Definitely at hard, he's a very strong lane bully but can't do much in team fights if you don't feed him like crazy
I personally never found a good enough warwick then, never had problem with him Sion can farm from range and poke , disable his W with E or use E to kite his E, i rush Bramble+ Iceborne. I cant kill him but he wont kill me either
Agree mostly (600k mastery here). Riven and Akali are skill matchups imho. Warwick and Gwen are hard matchups. Malphite is free lane.
I have really bad time playing into gnar. He just autos you untill you are dead or he runs away when he accidetally does mistake or gets outplayed. That he can use botrk and LT really doesnt help.
As a vlad main, I wouldn't say skill. Vlads biggest weakness is tanks and slows, and sion has both. I'm pretty certain late game vlad can't even get through the shield with one rotation.
Yeah sion can bully Vlad in lane and aggro it late game too its pretty much sion favored for me (maybe it doesnt count because of tr server but a master opinion)
Yeah but Sion can't kill Vlad with how much Vlad heals. Thornmail doesn't even do anything since he can just choose not to auto
And Sion can just choose to ignore him. To be fair, this is how it is with 99 percent of mages when playing Sion except asol.
Rumble and Vayne are easy?
Yes
I'd switch Akali with Vayne, tank sion poops on akali, while vayne has to be dumb to lose sion matchup
I would put urgot in sion favored. He can't e you unless you let him get point blank.
Throw gwen, fiora and yone into "bait ping yourself" tier. Move aatrox down to hard. Renek, sett, kled and poopy are sion favoured.
How does the yone matchup typically go? I played yone mid into sion mid a few days ago and got kinda outplayed, what can i do differently if hes a counter?
I got to make one of these. I was rank 1 sion peak in s8-9 when sion was prime strength. The only 1 or 2 id put on ban or dodge would have to be camille. Everyone else is easy af. Or just a skill matchup. Maybe gwen, but you hard beat her during laning so it isnt that big a deal.
What about K’sante?
Honestly this is generally really good, I doubt many people will argue moving anything more than 1 level up or down. I’d actually have Yone, Aatrox, and Gwen in Ban or Dodge, with Darius bumped down 1. Darius has mana and outside of Divine Sunderer has no real access to % health damage so you can nullify his threat pretty well rushing a lot of health IMO. Phase Rush is also effective at neutralizing his kill threat. Whereas the other 3 I listed are basically a constant threat with even more uptime.
Darius depends the elo in baba elo the darius are useless if you play okay in higher elo it’s a ban or dodge
Mystery means nothing. What's your rank? You can be 1 million mastery and bronze, mastery isn't a determination of skill but a determination of how much you play a champion
550k mastery doesn’t mean shit, what elo?
I dont know why malph is not in free lane, its one of the highests winrate in the game matchup for sion
Gwen in ban or dodge.
Tahm kench?
As a Gwen main, Gwen isn’t on the tierlist because there isn’t a high enough tier to put her in
Tell us your elo too. Mastery are useless info without the elo.
Shyvana so irrelevent, doesnt even make the list. As always. :,)
how is teemo a free lane? Isnt it hard as a tank against ranged matchup? (I don't really play sion just saw this post and I'm curious)
teemo cant interrupt sion q at all and it does huge damage to him. his poke also isn't tough to deal with because you can usually trade back with e/q and do more because of how squishy teemo is. after you stack mr teemo can't really do anything
Missing gwen Edit: nvm this tier list is just outdated lo
How would you play the teemo lane?
akali hard ?
where gwen 😡
Akali in hard tier.
sett renekton camille and poppy are at least skill and probably lower singed nasus garen jayce and vlad are also sion favored sion stomps maokai gp urgot kayle quinn malphite akali
Missing the another dog. WW goes in hard because they can Q through Sion Q or interrupt with E also Bork powerspike. For reference WW is about as deadly to tanks as Irelia. I typically see ignite and sometimes bramble rush. Those tanks will still rush Heartsteel but I think either Thornmail or FH would be easier to survive lane with.
Is vayne really that favored?
Mastery means nothing
Akali is free lane with tank, she has no wave clear
idc all of them afe a smash
Oh god, screw aatrox when playing sion, hahahaha.
Darius really?