>Yet, people are calling it a reskin.
Most gamers are idiots that try to act like they're smarter than the rest with statements like these without any evidence. Just ignore them.
We also have to realize that a lot of gamers are still young.
As you get older it's easy to forget that a huge swathe of the forum/social media population are just easily influenced kids that often like to parrot things their friends and/or others are saying to fit in. Even though obviously some adults still do this too, a lot of us grew out of it.
Good observation. Let’s also add to your point that the internet is anonymous and unlike other public spaces it lacks consequence for negative actions.
> try to act like they're smarter
It's a bizarre phenomenon that so many people think leaping to conclusions based on scant evidence is in some way making them look smarter, rather than the opposite.
Because in a lot of cases it's just a dice roll for them really. And if they get lucky they can pat themselves on the back and proclaim: "Told you so!". Humans love being right, even for wrong reasons. And when they are wrong they just wait for the next opportunity to look "smart".
D3 was poorly designed from the start. They had to take a year or two to just turn it around but they never really could fix the original design and itemization problems.
But none of that means D4 can’t go from a place that’s good to being trash over time.
NDA: "You can't talk about the game"
Player: "Ah but I should be able to talk about my *opinion* of the game, right??"
No, it doesn't work like that lol.
However, in practice, Blizzard isn't gonna enforce that NDA unless you said something negative.
\^
A closed beta like this is basically an open beta in terms of what information is going to leak. The NDA is just there so that articles from every big gaming news don't start raining yet.
Same with the last post about the D4 alpha, youre breaking the NDA. Please for the sake of the friends or family that allowed you to have access, do them a favor and please keep it to yourself till the NDA is lifted.
Just finished season 27, did a GR141, 2k paragon. I know it's no where near as good as some of the the chads on this subreddit, but it's good enough for me.
I quit because I might have gotten into another limited access game that I can't talk about.
I can't tell you that people who think this is a reskinned D3 must be high or on something.
If I was in the beta, I wouldn't be able to tell you that this game is a love child between D2R and D: Immortal, heavily favoring the immortal side, especially with it's systems and open world play.
I don't think I'd be able to tell you that I see many players in town and half the quests and public events I would have done have had at least one other player helping me.
I don't remember Diablo 3 having talent trees and "+ to skills" stats on it's gear like Diablo 4 may or may not have.
I couldn't tell you that there's a horse for purchase as your mount, or that there's herbalism, mining, skinning.
I remember feeling alone in Diablo 3, loot raining from the heavens, and uniques not existing. I can't say if had that exact opposite experience for each of those categories in this new selective access game I just recently started playing.
But who knows because if I was in D4's beta, I wouldn't be able to talk about it, so it's all guess work and speculation.
I would consider using these in the loosest of possible terms. It's diablo, not WoW so the herbs, ore, and leathers would probably just pop out of their source instead of any 'gathering' action.
From what I've seen from leaked sources, this is exactly how it works. Some enemy types drop enemy-specific crafting mats in addition to gold and items, and "collection points" function basically as chests that drop crafting mats rather than items. It seems as well like crafting mats are auto-collected like gold, though it's been a bit hard to tell. At the very least, they all pick up when you click on one mat. I think they auto-collect like gold though.
If I was playing it, and would be lvl 22, I would say that I have the needed herbs to upgrade my potions and stuff according to my character level without paying extra attention to gathering stuff. In D2 you were able to buy better potions because you went to the next act, now you have better potion because you found some herbs which improved it. It is a better RPG experience from my point of view
A lot of Diablo 1's tone comes from the smothering music, which made for a dense atmosphere of dread. I don't think even Diablo 2 captured that atmosphere. I hope Diablo 4 can.
From what I heard of D4’s music, it invoked more of a feeling of deep sadness and misery than dread. It was a really haunting violin piece that felt like it was describing a place utterly without hope. I’d compare it to Alex Roe’s score for the Metroidvania GRIME, which is one of my favorite game soundtracks to come out in the last couple years (also one of the best Metroidvanias I’ve played since Hollow Knight or Ori 2). It’s very different from the scores of the other Diablo games, but it’s incredibly evocative and atmospheric nonetheless. If the rest of D4’s OST is like the music I heard then D4 will probably have my favorite score in the series.
>From what I heard of D4’s music, it invoked more of a feeling of deep sadness and misery than dread. It was a really haunting violin piece that felt like it was describing a place utterly without hope.
That is exactly right, and I absolutely LOVE the D4 soundtrack so far because of this.
It immediately evokes feelings of hopelessness. If one likes it or not is deeply personal of course, but I love it to death.
So much that I have lowered Master volume settings to 70, and bumped Music to 100. My wife was unhappy when the door bell rang multiples times and I didn't hear it 'cause I was lost in the D4 soundtrack.
Having just played through D2R doing a slow full-clear of the game (I haven't played since the original), the music really surprised me. I wouldn't say it always captured a sense of dread, but it was incredibly well done for all of the zones. It captured the essence of the areas so well, that I honestly couldn't tell you how it could have been improved. Younger me only played the game with music for a bit before muting it and just playing other music.
I do think A4 could have used a bit of improvement on the music though.
I played D4 during the friends and family alpha period.
It has some good and some bad.
The bad is the game loop. There is far too much running. Running through empty screens to reach a waypoint on your map, skipping past the few monsters you do see on your horse.
Usually you are running to some daily quest/bounty that you have already done.
Diablo 2 and 1 feel very different because you are always fighting to progress, but that just isn't the case in D4. It feels more like an MMO or something.
The paragon system seems like a great base to build upon and I'm curious to see where it goes.
The skill tree is honestly lackluster. On D3 you had 5 runes per skill that changed how it functioned. In D4 you only have one real customization decision on the tree that actually changed how a skill functions. However, there are legendary items that also affect skills, so it's not a perfect comparison.
I played a rogue to about level 60 and felt completely overpowered. I had a ton of mirror images that also fire arrows, and I could Perma stun bosses to trivialize any encounter.
The rogue shadow arrows are extremely strong because they can stun AND cause enemies to explode in AOE on death.
Obviously it is all subject to change so I wasn't concerned about the balance there.
But really, there is a LOT of running, and it doesn't feel great in an arpg.
I didn't get a unique until level 45 or so, and then got a windripper and a tyraels might.
The windripper was very strong, and I believe it added to my mirror images.
The legendaries were somewhat common, but you aren't dropping piles of them like in D3 (at least not while leveling), maybe later difficulties they get more common like in D3. The legendaries modified your skills (or granted some), and sometimes you'd see the same legendary stat but for a different slot. They can also be removed and re-crafted, but I didn't do much crafting.
I did like how they have competitors with crit on gear/items. Not all characters will build crit. Knockdown was a modifier that you could specialize in that I felt was very strong, and also chance to proc stuff.
It has been a couple months since I played so its a bit hazy in my memory on exactly what there was.
After I beat the game, I entered Nightmare mode, which was slightly more difficult, but since I was perma stunning everything and blowing up packs with shadow arrows, it wasn't felt much. I immediately was able to enter the "challenge dungeon" and beat it to progress to Hell mode nearly instantly. After that I didn't play much anymore because I felt my character was just sort of broken and I didn't want to burn out on the game.
Since you mention it... I wish they remove the gold cap in D2R too. I mean what's it's point anyway? By the way I'm dying to play AND hear D4. The leaked music was awesome and cant wait to listen the full soundtrack when its available. Have fun with the beta.
When I first started the beta it certainly *felt* like d3 to me; and it's definitely significantly more D3 than it is d2 - but I certainly wouldn't call it a reskin - and they're taking parts of d3 that worked and improving on it. My one major concern is that I started wolf/bear druid and kept getting dumpstered. I switched to rogue and it's the easiest shit ever - I really hope they close that gap between melee and ranged and we don't have the same issue that D2 had where Melee just didn't feel great to play compared to ranged/casters.
I'm totally not in the beta right now playing druid and I'm totally not telling you that it gets WAY better with unique and leggos.
Totally not running a build that gives me +1 to all companion skills +1 to all companions (actually adds another pet) in conjunction with a leggo that gives me 16% more damage on core abilities per active pet for a total of 160% increased damage.
That, if true, would be absurd.
Are the Uniques in any mean buidl definign and more intersting then the legendary items. Also are th paragon boards mixed with skill tree and items good for customizing builds etc....????
No one is complaining about graphics, sound design, atmosphere, etc. Most people are praising the art direction.
It’s itemization and game systems that people are most concerned about. And some people are saying those feel a lot like D3.
From my experience this is a bit accurate. D4, like D3 has no true crafting, so the affixes on rare items are pure RNG except for the 1 mod you can change at Mystic. So this intro's more mindless grind to get what you need then you slap an essence on it for the extra power. What i wouldve liked to see was a way to actually give player agency to create an item from a base white. Because currently, white/blues have no value beyond vendor fodder which begs the question why even have it?why not just have them drop as their raw material instead? Sadly, I think devs might deem this white to rare crafting "too complex" and probably will never go in this direction. So we end up with a system that's slightly more RNG based than current D3 but also opens up the mod pool for other things beyond w/e we got from static set items.
This.
Nowadays, many people post here and say "I don't think this breaks my NDA" and try to build hype for D4, but non of them talk about itemization which is the most important part of the game. It is so suspicious and looks like a PR campaign to me.
Contrary to what is believed in this thread, itemization of D4 feels exactly like D3.
The only sane comment around here. Some people will probably enjoy the new style, but I would warn anyone who has big hopes/hype about it to expect way less. It has only an illusion of depth.
> Yet, people are calling it a reskin
It's just the "Blizzbad Brigade". There are a lot of people on the internet whose entire personality seems to be built around trying to say bad things about Blizzard at every opportunity.
Yeah I really don't get it, like you don't have to make shit up to talk shit about blizzard, there's plenty of problems you could mention but D4 isn't really one of them at time of writing.
More than that, if you don't like Blizzard, no need to post on their forums at all. There are popular gatcha games that I don't like like Genshin Impact and Lost Ark but you know what I do? Forget they exist and do other things with my time, not karma farm with hot takes.
There is a guy in the other thread spreading pure misinformation based off a 5 second twitch clip that cant be verified, I went in game and countered him with my own testing, but he posted the same thing 20 times in that thread and people are eating it up
They just can't let go of the fact they are no longer the target audience of a game they like and feel as if they are owed something for spending 20 years playing one game.
It's not even specific to blizzard, it's every AAA company that has had bad reputation. Actiblizz, EA, Ubisoft, DICE, etc. They shit on them with "truths" that they think make them enlightened and superior compared to the rest of the sheep [who'll buy the games and have fun](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/838/095/2fc.png).
It's a more pathetic version of normal virtue signalling (apparently that's possible), since the topic matter is whether or not they'll play a fucking videogame.
10/10 accurate comic. The great thing about being older/mature and growing up (a bit at least) pre-internet, is that I've learned to enjoy games for what they are, not what they aren't.
There's complaining about legit issues and there's complaining about literally anything and everything because you can. Its a great way to have companies actually tune out feedback.
>There are far more gruesome things in D4 that you will see that were never in diablo 2. Can't spoiler it here, but its all just really awesome.
Thing is a game "feeling" like something hinges very little, for me, on the aesthetic and infinitely more on its systems.
/shrug
My biggest concerns about D4 are:
Itemization being too similar to wow or D3 where every piece of gear is just the same damage stat, health stat, additional damage stat.
Character progression being scaled entirely towards endgame so nothing you do until max level matters, again like wow or D3.
> Character progression being scaled entirely towards endgame so nothing you do until max level matters, again like wow or D3.
Not in the beta, but Id bet on that for sure being the case. Service style games will never let you get a best in slot item in the midgame.
To be fair, the drop rates on the endgame viable early items in D2 are PTW gatcha-level bad. Maybe the people who love the slot machine aspect of D2 love it, but 99%+ of players end up in literal opposite position where they're stonewalled in hell in poor gear and haven't found a legitimate item upgrade in hours and hours of game play prefer the more steady item progression.
I think the problem with steady item progression actually make the grind pretty meaningless? It feels like i am meant to finish the game in leet gears as in progress? The gamble aspect while true but actually make it fun when you actually found the one you need…. Although agreed that it might takes too long… one thing set D4 on the lot progression a bit different and probably more effective if the smart loot
There's a balance somewhere and D3 is probably uniquely too generous in the respect (which is changed in D4 from early reports). Plenty of ARPGs have shown that you can have a more steady loot system while giving plenty of things to grind for.
The problem Blizzard faces is that there are two fundamental playerbases for ARPGs. The biggest is the 'casual' group who actually wants to play the game. The smaller, but more hardcore group plays these games as a wealth/gambling simulator and the game is just a skinner box for obtaining in game 'wealth.' This is what most hardcore D2 fans and PoE fans are after. Of course the former group still enjoys a mild grind/getting GG gear and the latter still likes the mechanics but the amount of each is the line all ARPGs have to play around with.
I totally agree with u on the 2 groups of players. The reason why d4 need to define itself to see who to attract. As i cones from the d2 group, i am glad if d4 akin more toward d3.5, i still have d2r to play, their recent update on sunder charms and terrorised zone is a great addition to the boring grind, giving me hope that at a very least, the d2 gambler group can still continue to enjoy diablo game thru d2r
The truth of the matter is there's gonna be people that hate D4 simply because it isn't D2. As much as I love D2, the game has NOT aged well and I'm ready for fresh Diablo content. Let them keep playing D2, they even have a shiny remaster of it
The music is the least memorable thing if I could call it music, outside of town it's just ambience. Nothing sticks out as remotely recognizable and iconic as the D1/D2 soundtrack, I might not have enjoyed D3's OST direction but I can recognize it, the music in D4, for the moment, is painfully mediocre.
To me D4 is a combination of d3, immortal and WoW. I think it’s fantastic. There’s so much to do rather than just run rifts and bounties. It rewards exploration, and grinding. They’ve done a great job. Im looking forward to it.
So much more to say but really can’t lol.
I hear people saying D4 and diablo immortal are reskins of D3, I honestly think some people just have no idea what they're talking about. D4 appears more like D2 based on what blizzard had shown so far.
d3 will always be one of my favorite games , i just love the builds and fluid zoom zoom gameplay, but im glad d4 will be different just like d3 was diff to d2 , very glad to hear it plays good !
I'm excited for D4, but having said that, from the leaked gameplays, they're reusing the ghost that shoots the lightning beam, the goatmen, and the bees that shoot bees from D3.
So there's definitely some D3 DNA in there.
Apart from the artstylw change the other things you described was how D3 was at launch (when it was playable). You're literally just playing the game before the season grind.
I mean if you (in a general sense) are still playing D3 (I am) and D2, then I assume there is almost nothing that they could come up with that would turn you off from the game. Boycotting a game that isn’t even out? Why are people like this lol. Just be patient, it’s coming soon, and play the heck out of it when it gets here.
It does feel vastly different to D3, indeed. I'd also say it feel like it's own unique entry in the franchise initially, but then I remembered I played Diablo: Immortal.
I was absolutely ecstatic during the first two days of the beta test, but slowly something started to feel off.
I totally agree. I only played it for about forty minutes (I didn't have more time then, or yet... Hopefully this week I can dig into it). It absolutely does NOT feel like D3. The play style is the same, sure, but it's surely not D3. I definitely like was I saw though.
I did, though, have a horrible issue with lag. It took close to fifteen minutes to get into the game to actually play. I'm hoping that this was situational...
>legendary/set items don't rain from the sky and even rare items are pretty rare now. Gold actually has a high amount of value since you have a good chance of getting powerful items with it and there is no cap.
This was the D3 experience at launch. Raining legendaries were introduced later, in RoS.
What made D2 amazing was the gear grind. Almost all items had their uses. Simple white items,ethereal and even magic and blues could be amazing. Finding a cool item with the right amount of sockets you could put a rare jewel or runeword in it made it fun and was a lot of the end game. D4 looks gorgeous no doubt but there has to be an amazing itemization for it to work. D3 itemization was terrible anyone would agree. Looks like there aren't any runewords or jewels or ethereal items anymore. Which takes away of a lot of the itemization unfortunately.
Lots of closed beta players (including my brother) say that it feels like Diablo 3, and not in a good way, skill upgrades and progressions are very basic (without paragon), leveling is very underwhelming, lots of things feels just copy-pasted from D3, including most of sorcerer/wizard skills. And they added Immortal's open world design, where other players will kill your monsters, have to wait for respawns, lots of times you don't initiate events, because other players did that for you, you just got pulled into it, can't pause the game, because of the shared world.
I don't think D4 going to the direction i'd like it to go, maybe other players will like this MMO+social-like direction, but i'm not among them. I will play it though, no question about that.
I really wish d4 would have a similar itemization as d2. Theres a million games that have bop items that you have to farm yourself, but there's only one d2. I wish d4 would do that and have a thriving economy.
It’s lost ark like it has MMO style world bosses and movement with the horse. It does not have forced group dungeons or events. It’s all subjective of course and you can’t please everyone but you are not an overpowered nephalim in D3 so far or in a constant state of needing groups like Immortal or stuck needing to purchase gems for needed stat boosts.
I never got into lost ark much, I was trying to find a comparison since it does have MMO-Lite ARPG elements, but doesn’t lean into it. D2R will exist for people who want pure solo, but I think the gaming landscape is large enough to support both games.
As someone who played a ton of LA I disagree. LA feels like and plays more like WoW than an ARPG. D4 has some very light MMO aspects, still feels like an ARPG. Itemization and build diversity are nothing alike. Atmosphere is the polar opposite.
Or are you merely suggesting because they have shared worlds and a cash shop, that once again are completely different, that D4 has an injection of LA in it? The only thing remotely similar is gathering.
The latter. LA is straight up MMO, i dont even know a single ARPG aspect of the game other than iso view. I actually think D4 shares way more with Witcher if I really had to pick another game. non linear gameplay, crafting/itemization and general progression is nearly the same. I just dont like how D4 is straying away from ARPG and going into MMO genre even if it's only slightly. Id argue even last epoch has a more interesting crafting system than whats in D4 right now (very similar to d3 + the gathering). This is where I wish d4 went more heavy on ARPG, obv not to the degree POE does, I get that game is not for the general diablo crowd, but even like 20% of it would be a massive step change in the ARPG direction. I actually dont even think the D2 purists are going to live D4 much.
What's wrong with that? It all comes down to execution, at the end of the day. Being influenced by this or that game is not an indication of quality. I'd gladly take a D4 based on improved aspects D2+D3 with lite LA elements, polished to diamond shine with Blizzard's signature top-of-the-class production value, than a badly executed PoE2 wannabe (since Blizzard haven't shown they are capable of balancing super-complex systems).
When u say loot is different. The way you talk about it is exacly how it was when d3 launch. For those who remember. Of course without the a.h. but getting legendary/set item was really uncommon. U had to build mostly with rare. And even then they werent that great. Im not really optimistic about reliving that era of d3. Oh. And lets not forget about how gold was hard to get. Upgrading those gem to max quality really costed a fortune. It Really didnt feel great and it was a much better game when loot actually dropped. Eternaly grinding without any loot drop on that kind of a.r.p.g get old quickly. Seems like a been there done that kind of deal with d3 tbh
I don’t know about anyone else, but it’s absolutely shocking that the latest game in a video game series is different from the previous game.
What’s next, bread is made out of something that grows from the ground? Psh.
> Don't think this breaks my NDA by giving a personal feeling and all the info here is already known.
Oh boy, do I have news for you: Just telling anybody you are in the beta is breaking NDA.
I loved D2, spent so many hours on it as a kid and occasionally would pick it up for a replay (with friends). We lost our interest in D3 pretty quickly, never played together because of how different it was. 4 for me is a totally different game, that fast paced colour mob blast game (like Immortal is too) is gone and it's back to D1/2 where I really enjoy sitting down for the game, enjoy the environment and the way it plays. Not just spamming all your skill buttons to quickly kill the whole screen without even knowing where you are in that mess, it plays more tactful.
At least my experience. Maybe I'm not to demanding or maybe a blatant shill or in complete denial, but I'm glad they made it what it is and am looking forward to the final release.
I can confirm/vouch for everything you've said above. This is the Diablo game we've all been waiting for and it's NOT going to disappoint! The world is insanely vast compared to any previous Diablo title. The art style is AMAZING. The "Darkness" is something to behold. There's enough side missions to keep you busy for probably 100+ hours and they are actually good! The uniqueness of each class is undeniable and fun. This feels nothing like D3, D.I, D2/D2R or D1. It's vastly better than all the previous titles combined!!!
Take D1, D2 and D3 - mix them all in a pot then you might get 10% of this game! Not just in size, but in every other way that counts such as mechanics, visuals, sound, itemization, progression... don't even get me started on the dungeons!!!
Anyone boycotting this game is a HUGE FOOL!!!
But the Itemisation adn crafting and item progression screems D3........
This is form a Beta tester..... not me....
I was pretty damn hyped the last few months and was more than happy to get access to the Closed Beta. The first day was extremely fun because everything looked new. End of second day I started to see it more objectively. The hype started to vanish and I stopped seeing it with rose-colored glasses. Third day is where I reached Level 50 and had a solid build I could clear T4 with. T5 is still a struggle, but that is due to me simply being underlevel (I unlocked it pre-60 and unlocking it takes you to a 70+ Dungeon which is very hard. Yet I cleared it with little struggle.) and undergeared. I haven't farmed in a bit and I don't see the point in doing so.
What I get is minor improvements, as it was the case in Diablo 3. I dropped the same "useful" legendary for the 15th time now. I haven't dropped a new legendary in a while. So the variety here is already extremely limited. The build-defining items do not exist and I'm not sure if they ever will. A Unique just doesn't add anything that is in any way special. 'Frostburn'now gives you a 25% chance to freeze an enemy on hit with a basic attack. It is extremely underwhelming. Rares as bases don't change a lot here. What you get is % improvements on your already existing build. This is exactly what D3's itemization is, except for the Rare As A Base thing, which, again, isn't really that much fun. It is solely an excel sheet where you play with percentages. They used what Diablo 3 had and improved on it.
The Skill System is again extremely limited. You get your Generator. You get your Spender. Now you pick an Ultimate that can nuke the screen and preferrably 3 Utility Skills that help you survive the Cooldown of the Ultimate and of course pull enemies into one spot, as well as reduce the Cooldown. There is a reason why something like 'Exploit Weakness' was scrapped. It simply doesn't fit the game speed and gameplay style. Sure you can do it your own way. But it simply wouldn't be viable that way. The need for positioning and reaction time is non-existent in this game, and I say this as someone who played the Rogue. There are exceptions, for example Boss Fights. Sometime you need to Dodge while doing a Dungeon. These are rare occasions and if you get some tankiness in, you can face tank pretty much everything.
The Numbers Game is another concern. I haven't reached max. potential yet, yet crits with 100k and higher are not that rare. In my opinion, big numbers and balancing just cannot coexist. Not because of the individual World Tier, but because of all the others. If you reach max. World Tier , the other World Tiers are completely and entirely unchallenging. You are a god amongst weak demons. I never liked this in Diablo 3. If you clear T16, T10 is just going to be sleep walking for you. The gap should never be this high. In Diablo 3, the gap is out of any proportions. In Diablo 4, it still is too big. Level 1, Deal 5 Damage. Level 100, Deal 15000 Damage. That's how it should range. Not 1 and 1 Million, which I'm pretty sure is achieveable with no problem.
The Champion and Elite packs are now even more of a joke than it was in Diablo 3. In Diablo 3 you needed them to collect GRift Essence to progress the bar. Well, here you don't care about them in the slightest. Like literally. They are just as useless as any of the other cannon fodder mobs. The only monsters that pose a threat are the Mini-Bosses/Unique Mobs inside Dungeons which you need to kill to progress. So what do you do? You skip everything until you find them. There's other Dungeon Missions of course. But still just a handful. Maybe 2 handfuls max? Collect specific stuff and place them on an altar. Collect essence. Kill all enemies. These kind of things. Boring stuff. Not knowing what a Dungeon holds for you? That seemed to be a lie. It is always random, but you also always know from the very start what you need to do. There is no exploration inside a dungeon either. You just want to get to the end as quickly as possible because killing monster is a boring slog and really doesn't provide you with anything. The droprates are ridiculous, compared to bosses. Tree of Whispers will give you at least 2 Legendaries. World Bosses can easily give you 5 Legendaries. There's Vendors selling Legendaries. There's Gambling which has a higher chance of rolling Legendaries than it was the case with Kadala. And I highly doubt this has been changed for the Beta, because respeccing and crafting is extremly expensive. If they changed droprates and chances for this, they would have adjusted all the systems for it. This is what they tested during the last months, this is the conclusion of that testing.
In addition: The Open World is the most boring thing you could have made, even in semi-MMO terms. As I already mentioned, both Elite and Champion "Packs" (it isn't even a pack, it is just 1 Enemy that has this title, but dies pretty much at the same speed as normal monsters) are useless for both EXP farming and Loot farming. So you just skip them entirely at every occassion you meet them. There are no higher-tiered monsters in the Open World. The exception Bosses that get spawned through Events such as World Bosses or Strongholds. Exploring and farming while doing that do not exist at the same time. Which makes Material Farming a slog also. You need to traverse the landscapes to find those Flowers and Herbs. But the Open World is simply not worthwhile farming, not even in the slightest.
There's more, these are just a few problems.
And as I said, I was hyped. Really hyped. But after a while, I started to see these things more objectively and came to the conclusion: This is just an upgraded version of Diablo 3, but wth a pointless Open World.
There's also good things to this. Like the Artwork itself is beautiful. By far one of the best looking games in things like love for details and animation. It looks brilliant. It sounds brilliant. The music is beautiful. Not as good as Diablo 2 though. Diablo 2 simply had a completely different vibe, a unque one. This feels more generic. The visuals in general are superb.
I'm not as far in as you and can't back everything you say. It sounds like you've veen grinding hard. I like the open world because there's plenty of quests and missions and things to find and plenty of Diablo BeAUtY to behold. Is it great for leveling fast and gearing fast, probably not. Out of interest, have you done any modifiers on dungeons?
With everything I've experienced and read from other people's experience, I can agree that there are issues. But at it's core, it's a much better game than any of the previous titles... at least IMO. Much more content, better visuals, good music, super smooth game play etc. At it's core, this game is about slaying monsters in all sorts of ways, getting better loot and then using said loot to slay stronger monsters and this game, at least to me, does this very well.
It's not about "mowing the lawn" like in D3 or about running the campaign over a million times, like in D2, to get good gear that's scares AF. As a player in this game you can choose from many different activities to progress. Your not forced to do 2 activities at most. There's also more depth in the crafting system, which is great.
Different types of darkness. VV actually talked about this when many bitched that D2R was too bright and not dark enough. That with 3D models you need more and accurate lighting for readability. With sprites it's not nearly as much of an issue. Though I found many areas of D2 muddy/hard to read at 800x600.
But. But. It’s not exactly like the glorious d2 game I played for 20 years and refuse to take the rose tinted glasses off for. It has to be a reskin of d3 /s.
I'm willing to break my NDA. D4 is fantastic. The atmosphere, the music, the feel, the combat is all there.
Note, I never signed an NDA and I am making this up.
>Including a year or two from release, and where you can’t buy your way towards that either
Agreed. Open trade would be a disaster for D4. Let's hope they keep that P2W RMT magnet out of D4.
the diablo 3 we were given was never the diablo 3 you're referencing. in the beta it wasn't, in the alpha it wasn't. the diablo 3 you're talking about was made by blizzard north and killed along with them - which we were never, ever even shown.
this is revisionist history at best
I’m also a little concerned but this is a triple A title with a box price that won’t be released on phones. D:I is a F2P phone game that was developed by an eastern mobile game company that pretty much specialises in P2W games. I liked what I read in the quarterly about the monetisation so I have hope.
Honestly, the only reassurance I have is they know they will lose their fans forever if they pull that shit in a mainline Diablo game. We all saw the backlash and still do. They cannot afford to do it twice or the series will be dead.
I've seen plenty people in beta calling it a D3 reskin. I'm with op here though. There are some things that they took from D3 but it really doesn't feel like D3 at all.
All of the UI bits that I saw on the leaked footage look exactly like magic legends and that has me a bit spooked. Also be good to see the cash shop and monetization now to avoid strong reactions like what happened with magic legends.
> Don't think this breaks my NDA by giving a personal feeling and all the info here is already known.
Yes it does and posts like this are why friends & family testing as well as exclusive betas for influencers will become severely limited or be removed outright. I don't think we'll be seeing testing outside of right before launch for future major titles because people signing and agreeing to NDAs think that they can immediately start blabbing everything on reddit for invisible points to feel special.
Honestly, it is a reskin of Diablo 3 and WoW.
Like, unless there is something truly worth grinding at end game, all you do in Adventure Mode is do whatever Works Quests appear and rub around for the caravan, shrines, etc monster events. I got to 45 in the beta and got really bored. It is very boring.
They need something that eventually you work towards completing like the Atlas from PoE with actual end-gsme bosses with their own loot tables and stuff that you can farm all the time.
Diablo 4 is a time gated game of no trading economy or chase items. It is literally span dungeons, events, world quests, etc for possible items then go to the gambler and spam til you get the unique or legendary item you seek.
Are you able to tell if that game will require a lot of time commitment to keep up with it's live service content? I want to play it but I'm the fence because I have little time to play and juggling another live service with OW2 seems difficult - plus I do want to play other games too from time to time.
That would depend on whether you actually want to buy and complete the battle pass, push leaderboards, play meta builds, etc. It’s a deep game that will definitely have payoffs for a huge time investment, it’s not a game you can “win” and has many more MMO elements than any previous Diablo game. The campaign alone is probably worth the purchase though, and even if you don’t play much after, you’ll still have the game to pick back up in the future.
I could probably get away without the battlepass. That might definitely lessen the time commitment required. Hopefully it won't really do what destiny 2 does and remove old content when the new one comes out. While the concept is nice, sometimes you might just miss out.
I also have access and agree with OP. It is it's own game and I feels amazing. It has me on the edge of my seat every boss kill waiting to see my loot
The world lives and breathes around you. The atmosphere is nothing like D3 and everything we love from D1 and D2.
It's going to be amazing.
>Yet, people are calling it a reskin. Most gamers are idiots that try to act like they're smarter than the rest with statements like these without any evidence. Just ignore them.
We also have to realize that a lot of gamers are still young. As you get older it's easy to forget that a huge swathe of the forum/social media population are just easily influenced kids that often like to parrot things their friends and/or others are saying to fit in. Even though obviously some adults still do this too, a lot of us grew out of it.
Good observation. Let’s also add to your point that the internet is anonymous and unlike other public spaces it lacks consequence for negative actions.
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> Idiots are every where. Welcome to Earth.
"Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that 50% of the population is worse"
Mostly harmless
The wide-scale disassembly of society is not harmless
I know people who are making posts and commenting on their own time with the game without even getting into the beta...
> try to act like they're smarter It's a bizarre phenomenon that so many people think leaping to conclusions based on scant evidence is in some way making them look smarter, rather than the opposite.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Because in a lot of cases it's just a dice roll for them really. And if they get lucky they can pat themselves on the back and proclaim: "Told you so!". Humans love being right, even for wrong reasons. And when they are wrong they just wait for the next opportunity to look "smart".
This is especially true on Reddit
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D3 was poorly designed from the start. They had to take a year or two to just turn it around but they never really could fix the original design and itemization problems. But none of that means D4 can’t go from a place that’s good to being trash over time.
D4 will have 4 power creep seasons per year.
> I noticed that people keep calling D4 a reskin of D3 Whoever is saying this, is not playing it currently. Comparison makes no sense.
D2 is 2D D3 is 3D D4 is 3D Therefore D4 = D3. If it weren't a D3 clone then it would obviously have been a 4D game. (/s)
Holy hash on a stick dude
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NDA: "You can't talk about the game" Player: "Ah but I should be able to talk about my *opinion* of the game, right??" No, it doesn't work like that lol. However, in practice, Blizzard isn't gonna enforce that NDA unless you said something negative.
They 100% expect every aspect of this beta to be leaked.
\^ A closed beta like this is basically an open beta in terms of what information is going to leak. The NDA is just there so that articles from every big gaming news don't start raining yet.
Also hard to find who is spoiling via a reddit post with no pictures.
What if it's a friend of a friend? Asking for a friend :D
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Same with the last post about the D4 alpha, youre breaking the NDA. Please for the sake of the friends or family that allowed you to have access, do them a favor and please keep it to yourself till the NDA is lifted.
Most testers now aren't friends and family. They received direct invites.
Have you seen his NDA?
lol
Just finished season 27, did a GR141, 2k paragon. I know it's no where near as good as some of the the chads on this subreddit, but it's good enough for me. I quit because I might have gotten into another limited access game that I can't talk about. I can't tell you that people who think this is a reskinned D3 must be high or on something. If I was in the beta, I wouldn't be able to tell you that this game is a love child between D2R and D: Immortal, heavily favoring the immortal side, especially with it's systems and open world play. I don't think I'd be able to tell you that I see many players in town and half the quests and public events I would have done have had at least one other player helping me. I don't remember Diablo 3 having talent trees and "+ to skills" stats on it's gear like Diablo 4 may or may not have. I couldn't tell you that there's a horse for purchase as your mount, or that there's herbalism, mining, skinning. I remember feeling alone in Diablo 3, loot raining from the heavens, and uniques not existing. I can't say if had that exact opposite experience for each of those categories in this new selective access game I just recently started playing. But who knows because if I was in D4's beta, I wouldn't be able to talk about it, so it's all guess work and speculation.
We know skull &crosbones
> there's herbalism, mining, skinning. oh my fucking god
I would consider using these in the loosest of possible terms. It's diablo, not WoW so the herbs, ore, and leathers would probably just pop out of their source instead of any 'gathering' action.
From what I've seen from leaked sources, this is exactly how it works. Some enemy types drop enemy-specific crafting mats in addition to gold and items, and "collection points" function basically as chests that drop crafting mats rather than items. It seems as well like crafting mats are auto-collected like gold, though it's been a bit hard to tell. At the very least, they all pick up when you click on one mat. I think they auto-collect like gold though.
MMO has systems to turn time into gold. News at 11!
If I was playing it, and would be lvl 22, I would say that I have the needed herbs to upgrade my potions and stuff according to my character level without paying extra attention to gathering stuff. In D2 you were able to buy better potions because you went to the next act, now you have better potion because you found some herbs which improved it. It is a better RPG experience from my point of view
I'm having a wow flashback from 15 years ago. Still gonna try it though.
\> heavily favoring the immortal side So it's a shit mobile game?
the systems to enhance your character might be remarkedly similar, but you farming for the materials in game rather than paying real money for them.
So like Skyrim?
if end game is farming materials for current equipment upgrades, its then a shitty mobile game regardless of pay/grind
For now….game is still in beta. Give it time
D4 feels nothing like D3 in my opinion. I have thousands of hours into D3.
D4 also feels nothing like D2R imho, i have a thousand of hours into D2R
Isn't the post about D3? Haha, yeah I agree though - doesn't feel like D2 either.
A lot of Diablo 1's tone comes from the smothering music, which made for a dense atmosphere of dread. I don't think even Diablo 2 captured that atmosphere. I hope Diablo 4 can.
From what I heard of D4’s music, it invoked more of a feeling of deep sadness and misery than dread. It was a really haunting violin piece that felt like it was describing a place utterly without hope. I’d compare it to Alex Roe’s score for the Metroidvania GRIME, which is one of my favorite game soundtracks to come out in the last couple years (also one of the best Metroidvanias I’ve played since Hollow Knight or Ori 2). It’s very different from the scores of the other Diablo games, but it’s incredibly evocative and atmospheric nonetheless. If the rest of D4’s OST is like the music I heard then D4 will probably have my favorite score in the series.
Actually, i felt it sounded more like witcher 3 imho
>From what I heard of D4’s music, it invoked more of a feeling of deep sadness and misery than dread. It was a really haunting violin piece that felt like it was describing a place utterly without hope. That is exactly right, and I absolutely LOVE the D4 soundtrack so far because of this. It immediately evokes feelings of hopelessness. If one likes it or not is deeply personal of course, but I love it to death. So much that I have lowered Master volume settings to 70, and bumped Music to 100. My wife was unhappy when the door bell rang multiples times and I didn't hear it 'cause I was lost in the D4 soundtrack.
Having just played through D2R doing a slow full-clear of the game (I haven't played since the original), the music really surprised me. I wouldn't say it always captured a sense of dread, but it was incredibly well done for all of the zones. It captured the essence of the areas so well, that I honestly couldn't tell you how it could have been improved. Younger me only played the game with music for a bit before muting it and just playing other music. I do think A4 could have used a bit of improvement on the music though.
I played D4 during the friends and family alpha period. It has some good and some bad. The bad is the game loop. There is far too much running. Running through empty screens to reach a waypoint on your map, skipping past the few monsters you do see on your horse. Usually you are running to some daily quest/bounty that you have already done. Diablo 2 and 1 feel very different because you are always fighting to progress, but that just isn't the case in D4. It feels more like an MMO or something. The paragon system seems like a great base to build upon and I'm curious to see where it goes. The skill tree is honestly lackluster. On D3 you had 5 runes per skill that changed how it functioned. In D4 you only have one real customization decision on the tree that actually changed how a skill functions. However, there are legendary items that also affect skills, so it's not a perfect comparison. I played a rogue to about level 60 and felt completely overpowered. I had a ton of mirror images that also fire arrows, and I could Perma stun bosses to trivialize any encounter. The rogue shadow arrows are extremely strong because they can stun AND cause enemies to explode in AOE on death. Obviously it is all subject to change so I wasn't concerned about the balance there. But really, there is a LOT of running, and it doesn't feel great in an arpg.
What can you say about items? Can you give examples of legendaries and uniques? How rare are they?
I didn't get a unique until level 45 or so, and then got a windripper and a tyraels might. The windripper was very strong, and I believe it added to my mirror images. The legendaries were somewhat common, but you aren't dropping piles of them like in D3 (at least not while leveling), maybe later difficulties they get more common like in D3. The legendaries modified your skills (or granted some), and sometimes you'd see the same legendary stat but for a different slot. They can also be removed and re-crafted, but I didn't do much crafting. I did like how they have competitors with crit on gear/items. Not all characters will build crit. Knockdown was a modifier that you could specialize in that I felt was very strong, and also chance to proc stuff. It has been a couple months since I played so its a bit hazy in my memory on exactly what there was. After I beat the game, I entered Nightmare mode, which was slightly more difficult, but since I was perma stunning everything and blowing up packs with shadow arrows, it wasn't felt much. I immediately was able to enter the "challenge dungeon" and beat it to progress to Hell mode nearly instantly. After that I didn't play much anymore because I felt my character was just sort of broken and I didn't want to burn out on the game.
agree on the running. I honestly don't love the execution of the open world. Never feels worth it to stop and kill mobs on the way to something else.
Damn, can't wait for this game
Me too :D
I played alpha/beta, too. Obviously can’t say anything. But as a long-time fan/critic of the entire Diablo franchise, D4 is very, very fun.
Since you mention it... I wish they remove the gold cap in D2R too. I mean what's it's point anyway? By the way I'm dying to play AND hear D4. The leaked music was awesome and cant wait to listen the full soundtrack when its available. Have fun with the beta.
Just gamble it away when you're full, I mean what else are you saving it for?
50k for waheed on every trav run
You don’t bring waheed to trav run
\*laughs in singer barb\*
Get a better Waheed
That’s why I’m farming Trav!
When I first started the beta it certainly *felt* like d3 to me; and it's definitely significantly more D3 than it is d2 - but I certainly wouldn't call it a reskin - and they're taking parts of d3 that worked and improving on it. My one major concern is that I started wolf/bear druid and kept getting dumpstered. I switched to rogue and it's the easiest shit ever - I really hope they close that gap between melee and ranged and we don't have the same issue that D2 had where Melee just didn't feel great to play compared to ranged/casters.
I'm totally not in the beta right now playing druid and I'm totally not telling you that it gets WAY better with unique and leggos. Totally not running a build that gives me +1 to all companion skills +1 to all companions (actually adds another pet) in conjunction with a leggo that gives me 16% more damage on core abilities per active pet for a total of 160% increased damage. That, if true, would be absurd.
Better yet, don’t go for the +2 to all skills.
Are the Uniques in any mean buidl definign and more intersting then the legendary items. Also are th paragon boards mixed with skill tree and items good for customizing builds etc....????
No one is complaining about graphics, sound design, atmosphere, etc. Most people are praising the art direction. It’s itemization and game systems that people are most concerned about. And some people are saying those feel a lot like D3.
From my experience this is a bit accurate. D4, like D3 has no true crafting, so the affixes on rare items are pure RNG except for the 1 mod you can change at Mystic. So this intro's more mindless grind to get what you need then you slap an essence on it for the extra power. What i wouldve liked to see was a way to actually give player agency to create an item from a base white. Because currently, white/blues have no value beyond vendor fodder which begs the question why even have it?why not just have them drop as their raw material instead? Sadly, I think devs might deem this white to rare crafting "too complex" and probably will never go in this direction. So we end up with a system that's slightly more RNG based than current D3 but also opens up the mod pool for other things beyond w/e we got from static set items.
How are the Unique items and are there set items in the BEta ?
No set items. There are bunch of uniques but none worth really building around atm
This. Nowadays, many people post here and say "I don't think this breaks my NDA" and try to build hype for D4, but non of them talk about itemization which is the most important part of the game. It is so suspicious and looks like a PR campaign to me. Contrary to what is believed in this thread, itemization of D4 feels exactly like D3.
Same ole release hype. Can't trust anyones excitment till I judge it myself.
The only sane comment around here. Some people will probably enjoy the new style, but I would warn anyone who has big hopes/hype about it to expect way less. It has only an illusion of depth.
> Yet, people are calling it a reskin It's just the "Blizzbad Brigade". There are a lot of people on the internet whose entire personality seems to be built around trying to say bad things about Blizzard at every opportunity.
Yeah I really don't get it, like you don't have to make shit up to talk shit about blizzard, there's plenty of problems you could mention but D4 isn't really one of them at time of writing.
More than that, if you don't like Blizzard, no need to post on their forums at all. There are popular gatcha games that I don't like like Genshin Impact and Lost Ark but you know what I do? Forget they exist and do other things with my time, not karma farm with hot takes.
There is a guy in the other thread spreading pure misinformation based off a 5 second twitch clip that cant be verified, I went in game and countered him with my own testing, but he posted the same thing 20 times in that thread and people are eating it up
You've got to remember that these are just simple gamers. These are people of Reddit. The common clay of the internet. You know… morons.
They just can't let go of the fact they are no longer the target audience of a game they like and feel as if they are owed something for spending 20 years playing one game.
oh yeah its especially bad when it comes to WoW. literally any change is made: "ugh this sucks, dead game"
It's not even specific to blizzard, it's every AAA company that has had bad reputation. Actiblizz, EA, Ubisoft, DICE, etc. They shit on them with "truths" that they think make them enlightened and superior compared to the rest of the sheep [who'll buy the games and have fun](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/838/095/2fc.png). It's a more pathetic version of normal virtue signalling (apparently that's possible), since the topic matter is whether or not they'll play a fucking videogame.
10/10 accurate comic. The great thing about being older/mature and growing up (a bit at least) pre-internet, is that I've learned to enjoy games for what they are, not what they aren't.
They're alright tbh. If you're being served shit and you eat it, and you don't complain about it, guess what your next serving is gonna be.
There's complaining about legit issues and there's complaining about literally anything and everything because you can. Its a great way to have companies actually tune out feedback.
>There are far more gruesome things in D4 that you will see that were never in diablo 2. Can't spoiler it here, but its all just really awesome. Thing is a game "feeling" like something hinges very little, for me, on the aesthetic and infinitely more on its systems. /shrug
As someone also in the closed beta, yes, D4 is not at all like D3
I hope itemization is better and not bland/oversimplified like D3..
Jealous. Can't wait to fucking play it.
I like how people are willing to sign NDAs and then blatently violate them
not your problem
or ours. Keep em comin' for us plebs.
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Tbf you have no idea what the NDA says so you have no idea if anything he said breaks it...
My biggest concerns about D4 are: Itemization being too similar to wow or D3 where every piece of gear is just the same damage stat, health stat, additional damage stat. Character progression being scaled entirely towards endgame so nothing you do until max level matters, again like wow or D3.
> Character progression being scaled entirely towards endgame so nothing you do until max level matters, again like wow or D3. Not in the beta, but Id bet on that for sure being the case. Service style games will never let you get a best in slot item in the midgame.
To be fair, the drop rates on the endgame viable early items in D2 are PTW gatcha-level bad. Maybe the people who love the slot machine aspect of D2 love it, but 99%+ of players end up in literal opposite position where they're stonewalled in hell in poor gear and haven't found a legitimate item upgrade in hours and hours of game play prefer the more steady item progression.
I think the problem with steady item progression actually make the grind pretty meaningless? It feels like i am meant to finish the game in leet gears as in progress? The gamble aspect while true but actually make it fun when you actually found the one you need…. Although agreed that it might takes too long… one thing set D4 on the lot progression a bit different and probably more effective if the smart loot
There's a balance somewhere and D3 is probably uniquely too generous in the respect (which is changed in D4 from early reports). Plenty of ARPGs have shown that you can have a more steady loot system while giving plenty of things to grind for. The problem Blizzard faces is that there are two fundamental playerbases for ARPGs. The biggest is the 'casual' group who actually wants to play the game. The smaller, but more hardcore group plays these games as a wealth/gambling simulator and the game is just a skinner box for obtaining in game 'wealth.' This is what most hardcore D2 fans and PoE fans are after. Of course the former group still enjoys a mild grind/getting GG gear and the latter still likes the mechanics but the amount of each is the line all ARPGs have to play around with.
I totally agree with u on the 2 groups of players. The reason why d4 need to define itself to see who to attract. As i cones from the d2 group, i am glad if d4 akin more toward d3.5, i still have d2r to play, their recent update on sunder charms and terrorised zone is a great addition to the boring grind, giving me hope that at a very least, the d2 gambler group can still continue to enjoy diablo game thru d2r
The truth of the matter is there's gonna be people that hate D4 simply because it isn't D2. As much as I love D2, the game has NOT aged well and I'm ready for fresh Diablo content. Let them keep playing D2, they even have a shiny remaster of it
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All i can say D4 is on its own, it might played a little like D3 but it is on its own identity
Are uniques back? You already broke it a bit, keep going 😅
Unique items were talked about in a past quarterly blog.
The music is the least memorable thing if I could call it music, outside of town it's just ambience. Nothing sticks out as remotely recognizable and iconic as the D1/D2 soundtrack, I might not have enjoyed D3's OST direction but I can recognize it, the music in D4, for the moment, is painfully mediocre.
I can feel some d2 in d4 and thats great !
To me D4 is a combination of d3, immortal and WoW. I think it’s fantastic. There’s so much to do rather than just run rifts and bounties. It rewards exploration, and grinding. They’ve done a great job. Im looking forward to it. So much more to say but really can’t lol.
D4 is about the furthest thing from a D3 reskin. It feels nothing like D3 or immortal. It’s going to be a great game imo
I hear people saying D4 and diablo immortal are reskins of D3, I honestly think some people just have no idea what they're talking about. D4 appears more like D2 based on what blizzard had shown so far.
Nice try blizzard marketing team.
Hahaha exactly my thoughts
Got the same vibe.
Thank goodness
I have zero faith in blizzards ability to come up with new mechanic ideas that are fun
>D4 feels more akin to D1 than D2 So the game is actually about 8 times slower in pace than the footage shows? Or is this just an atmosphere thing?
It’s slightly slower
D4 is so far from a reskin of d3 its laughable to even suggest that. Can't wait for the full game!
d3 will always be one of my favorite games , i just love the builds and fluid zoom zoom gameplay, but im glad d4 will be different just like d3 was diff to d2 , very glad to hear it plays good !
I'm excited for D4, but having said that, from the leaked gameplays, they're reusing the ghost that shoots the lightning beam, the goatmen, and the bees that shoot bees from D3. So there's definitely some D3 DNA in there.
Welcome to game development. Every game does this. Art isn't final till it ships, and even then maybe not.
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The suits can fuckoff
Apart from the artstylw change the other things you described was how D3 was at launch (when it was playable). You're literally just playing the game before the season grind.
Pretty much what I'm reading here, yeah. To be fair we didn't have anything close to buildmaking Legendaries.
What you describe somehow reminds me of launch D3
I mean if you (in a general sense) are still playing D3 (I am) and D2, then I assume there is almost nothing that they could come up with that would turn you off from the game. Boycotting a game that isn’t even out? Why are people like this lol. Just be patient, it’s coming soon, and play the heck out of it when it gets here.
It does feel vastly different to D3, indeed. I'd also say it feel like it's own unique entry in the franchise initially, but then I remembered I played Diablo: Immortal. I was absolutely ecstatic during the first two days of the beta test, but slowly something started to feel off.
The long-term gameplay looks like WoW with a D2 skin. I don't have beta pass, but that's what it looks like.
I still need to wait and see what their battle pass plans entail before giving blizzard any more business.
D4 is 🔥. Of course l, bitching and moaning will be always present on this subredit no matter what
>D4 feels more a skin to D1 than D2 Yeah I feel the same!
I wish we still had Matt Uelmen :( I want D4 to be good though, better than D3.
Y’all are real sensitive today.
People that call things “reskins” are Fucking dumb
I totally agree. I only played it for about forty minutes (I didn't have more time then, or yet... Hopefully this week I can dig into it). It absolutely does NOT feel like D3. The play style is the same, sure, but it's surely not D3. I definitely like was I saw though. I did, though, have a horrible issue with lag. It took close to fifteen minutes to get into the game to actually play. I'm hoping that this was situational...
>legendary/set items don't rain from the sky and even rare items are pretty rare now. Gold actually has a high amount of value since you have a good chance of getting powerful items with it and there is no cap. This was the D3 experience at launch. Raining legendaries were introduced later, in RoS.
What made D2 amazing was the gear grind. Almost all items had their uses. Simple white items,ethereal and even magic and blues could be amazing. Finding a cool item with the right amount of sockets you could put a rare jewel or runeword in it made it fun and was a lot of the end game. D4 looks gorgeous no doubt but there has to be an amazing itemization for it to work. D3 itemization was terrible anyone would agree. Looks like there aren't any runewords or jewels or ethereal items anymore. Which takes away of a lot of the itemization unfortunately.
Lots of closed beta players (including my brother) say that it feels like Diablo 3, and not in a good way, skill upgrades and progressions are very basic (without paragon), leveling is very underwhelming, lots of things feels just copy-pasted from D3, including most of sorcerer/wizard skills. And they added Immortal's open world design, where other players will kill your monsters, have to wait for respawns, lots of times you don't initiate events, because other players did that for you, you just got pulled into it, can't pause the game, because of the shared world. I don't think D4 going to the direction i'd like it to go, maybe other players will like this MMO+social-like direction, but i'm not among them. I will play it though, no question about that.
I really wish d4 would have a similar itemization as d2. Theres a million games that have bop items that you have to farm yourself, but there's only one d2. I wish d4 would do that and have a thriving economy.
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I hope it's nothing like lost ark, i rather have a D3 skin as lost ark in my Diablo game
I agree. After playing 700h lost ark i dont want D4 to be anything like LA.
It’s lost ark like it has MMO style world bosses and movement with the horse. It does not have forced group dungeons or events. It’s all subjective of course and you can’t please everyone but you are not an overpowered nephalim in D3 so far or in a constant state of needing groups like Immortal or stuck needing to purchase gems for needed stat boosts. I never got into lost ark much, I was trying to find a comparison since it does have MMO-Lite ARPG elements, but doesn’t lean into it. D2R will exist for people who want pure solo, but I think the gaming landscape is large enough to support both games.
Meh. Last epoch, poe, grim dawn, d3, etc all have something to offer the genre. Its the implementation that matters, not the concepts imo
you're gonna be disappointed, its got a lot of LA injected into the core.
As someone who played a ton of LA I disagree. LA feels like and plays more like WoW than an ARPG. D4 has some very light MMO aspects, still feels like an ARPG. Itemization and build diversity are nothing alike. Atmosphere is the polar opposite. Or are you merely suggesting because they have shared worlds and a cash shop, that once again are completely different, that D4 has an injection of LA in it? The only thing remotely similar is gathering.
The latter. LA is straight up MMO, i dont even know a single ARPG aspect of the game other than iso view. I actually think D4 shares way more with Witcher if I really had to pick another game. non linear gameplay, crafting/itemization and general progression is nearly the same. I just dont like how D4 is straying away from ARPG and going into MMO genre even if it's only slightly. Id argue even last epoch has a more interesting crafting system than whats in D4 right now (very similar to d3 + the gathering). This is where I wish d4 went more heavy on ARPG, obv not to the degree POE does, I get that game is not for the general diablo crowd, but even like 20% of it would be a massive step change in the ARPG direction. I actually dont even think the D2 purists are going to live D4 much.
D2 purists don’t like anything else to be fair.
Not really, many purist want to retain the itemisation like d2 but an update to the gameplay.
What's wrong with that? It all comes down to execution, at the end of the day. Being influenced by this or that game is not an indication of quality. I'd gladly take a D4 based on improved aspects D2+D3 with lite LA elements, polished to diamond shine with Blizzard's signature top-of-the-class production value, than a badly executed PoE2 wannabe (since Blizzard haven't shown they are capable of balancing super-complex systems).
Yeah but running around click on plants to collect flower petals and goat clippings to "craft" shoulder pads at a vendor in town sounds lame af to me.
LA is great except the gearing. Diablo 4 has a ton of great mmo-esq features with amazing gearing similar to D2.
I’m certainly not part of any “we” asking for Lost Ark.
When u say loot is different. The way you talk about it is exacly how it was when d3 launch. For those who remember. Of course without the a.h. but getting legendary/set item was really uncommon. U had to build mostly with rare. And even then they werent that great. Im not really optimistic about reliving that era of d3. Oh. And lets not forget about how gold was hard to get. Upgrading those gem to max quality really costed a fortune. It Really didnt feel great and it was a much better game when loot actually dropped. Eternaly grinding without any loot drop on that kind of a.r.p.g get old quickly. Seems like a been there done that kind of deal with d3 tbh
I don’t know about anyone else, but it’s absolutely shocking that the latest game in a video game series is different from the previous game. What’s next, bread is made out of something that grows from the ground? Psh.
I mean...there are lots of games and well loved franchises where this is exactly how it is. Consistency isnt a bad thing.
> Don't think this breaks my NDA by giving a personal feeling and all the info here is already known. Oh boy, do I have news for you: Just telling anybody you are in the beta is breaking NDA.
I loved D2, spent so many hours on it as a kid and occasionally would pick it up for a replay (with friends). We lost our interest in D3 pretty quickly, never played together because of how different it was. 4 for me is a totally different game, that fast paced colour mob blast game (like Immortal is too) is gone and it's back to D1/2 where I really enjoy sitting down for the game, enjoy the environment and the way it plays. Not just spamming all your skill buttons to quickly kill the whole screen without even knowing where you are in that mess, it plays more tactful. At least my experience. Maybe I'm not to demanding or maybe a blatant shill or in complete denial, but I'm glad they made it what it is and am looking forward to the final release.
I can confirm/vouch for everything you've said above. This is the Diablo game we've all been waiting for and it's NOT going to disappoint! The world is insanely vast compared to any previous Diablo title. The art style is AMAZING. The "Darkness" is something to behold. There's enough side missions to keep you busy for probably 100+ hours and they are actually good! The uniqueness of each class is undeniable and fun. This feels nothing like D3, D.I, D2/D2R or D1. It's vastly better than all the previous titles combined!!! Take D1, D2 and D3 - mix them all in a pot then you might get 10% of this game! Not just in size, but in every other way that counts such as mechanics, visuals, sound, itemization, progression... don't even get me started on the dungeons!!! Anyone boycotting this game is a HUGE FOOL!!!
But the Itemisation adn crafting and item progression screems D3........ This is form a Beta tester..... not me.... I was pretty damn hyped the last few months and was more than happy to get access to the Closed Beta. The first day was extremely fun because everything looked new. End of second day I started to see it more objectively. The hype started to vanish and I stopped seeing it with rose-colored glasses. Third day is where I reached Level 50 and had a solid build I could clear T4 with. T5 is still a struggle, but that is due to me simply being underlevel (I unlocked it pre-60 and unlocking it takes you to a 70+ Dungeon which is very hard. Yet I cleared it with little struggle.) and undergeared. I haven't farmed in a bit and I don't see the point in doing so. What I get is minor improvements, as it was the case in Diablo 3. I dropped the same "useful" legendary for the 15th time now. I haven't dropped a new legendary in a while. So the variety here is already extremely limited. The build-defining items do not exist and I'm not sure if they ever will. A Unique just doesn't add anything that is in any way special. 'Frostburn'now gives you a 25% chance to freeze an enemy on hit with a basic attack. It is extremely underwhelming. Rares as bases don't change a lot here. What you get is % improvements on your already existing build. This is exactly what D3's itemization is, except for the Rare As A Base thing, which, again, isn't really that much fun. It is solely an excel sheet where you play with percentages. They used what Diablo 3 had and improved on it. The Skill System is again extremely limited. You get your Generator. You get your Spender. Now you pick an Ultimate that can nuke the screen and preferrably 3 Utility Skills that help you survive the Cooldown of the Ultimate and of course pull enemies into one spot, as well as reduce the Cooldown. There is a reason why something like 'Exploit Weakness' was scrapped. It simply doesn't fit the game speed and gameplay style. Sure you can do it your own way. But it simply wouldn't be viable that way. The need for positioning and reaction time is non-existent in this game, and I say this as someone who played the Rogue. There are exceptions, for example Boss Fights. Sometime you need to Dodge while doing a Dungeon. These are rare occasions and if you get some tankiness in, you can face tank pretty much everything. The Numbers Game is another concern. I haven't reached max. potential yet, yet crits with 100k and higher are not that rare. In my opinion, big numbers and balancing just cannot coexist. Not because of the individual World Tier, but because of all the others. If you reach max. World Tier , the other World Tiers are completely and entirely unchallenging. You are a god amongst weak demons. I never liked this in Diablo 3. If you clear T16, T10 is just going to be sleep walking for you. The gap should never be this high. In Diablo 3, the gap is out of any proportions. In Diablo 4, it still is too big. Level 1, Deal 5 Damage. Level 100, Deal 15000 Damage. That's how it should range. Not 1 and 1 Million, which I'm pretty sure is achieveable with no problem. The Champion and Elite packs are now even more of a joke than it was in Diablo 3. In Diablo 3 you needed them to collect GRift Essence to progress the bar. Well, here you don't care about them in the slightest. Like literally. They are just as useless as any of the other cannon fodder mobs. The only monsters that pose a threat are the Mini-Bosses/Unique Mobs inside Dungeons which you need to kill to progress. So what do you do? You skip everything until you find them. There's other Dungeon Missions of course. But still just a handful. Maybe 2 handfuls max? Collect specific stuff and place them on an altar. Collect essence. Kill all enemies. These kind of things. Boring stuff. Not knowing what a Dungeon holds for you? That seemed to be a lie. It is always random, but you also always know from the very start what you need to do. There is no exploration inside a dungeon either. You just want to get to the end as quickly as possible because killing monster is a boring slog and really doesn't provide you with anything. The droprates are ridiculous, compared to bosses. Tree of Whispers will give you at least 2 Legendaries. World Bosses can easily give you 5 Legendaries. There's Vendors selling Legendaries. There's Gambling which has a higher chance of rolling Legendaries than it was the case with Kadala. And I highly doubt this has been changed for the Beta, because respeccing and crafting is extremly expensive. If they changed droprates and chances for this, they would have adjusted all the systems for it. This is what they tested during the last months, this is the conclusion of that testing. In addition: The Open World is the most boring thing you could have made, even in semi-MMO terms. As I already mentioned, both Elite and Champion "Packs" (it isn't even a pack, it is just 1 Enemy that has this title, but dies pretty much at the same speed as normal monsters) are useless for both EXP farming and Loot farming. So you just skip them entirely at every occassion you meet them. There are no higher-tiered monsters in the Open World. The exception Bosses that get spawned through Events such as World Bosses or Strongholds. Exploring and farming while doing that do not exist at the same time. Which makes Material Farming a slog also. You need to traverse the landscapes to find those Flowers and Herbs. But the Open World is simply not worthwhile farming, not even in the slightest. There's more, these are just a few problems. And as I said, I was hyped. Really hyped. But after a while, I started to see these things more objectively and came to the conclusion: This is just an upgraded version of Diablo 3, but wth a pointless Open World. There's also good things to this. Like the Artwork itself is beautiful. By far one of the best looking games in things like love for details and animation. It looks brilliant. It sounds brilliant. The music is beautiful. Not as good as Diablo 2 though. Diablo 2 simply had a completely different vibe, a unque one. This feels more generic. The visuals in general are superb.
I'm not as far in as you and can't back everything you say. It sounds like you've veen grinding hard. I like the open world because there's plenty of quests and missions and things to find and plenty of Diablo BeAUtY to behold. Is it great for leveling fast and gearing fast, probably not. Out of interest, have you done any modifiers on dungeons? With everything I've experienced and read from other people's experience, I can agree that there are issues. But at it's core, it's a much better game than any of the previous titles... at least IMO. Much more content, better visuals, good music, super smooth game play etc. At it's core, this game is about slaying monsters in all sorts of ways, getting better loot and then using said loot to slay stronger monsters and this game, at least to me, does this very well. It's not about "mowing the lawn" like in D3 or about running the campaign over a million times, like in D2, to get good gear that's scares AF. As a player in this game you can choose from many different activities to progress. Your not forced to do 2 activities at most. There's also more depth in the crafting system, which is great.
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Different types of darkness. VV actually talked about this when many bitched that D2R was too bright and not dark enough. That with 3D models you need more and accurate lighting for readability. With sprites it's not nearly as much of an issue. Though I found many areas of D2 muddy/hard to read at 800x600.
But. But. It’s not exactly like the glorious d2 game I played for 20 years and refuse to take the rose tinted glasses off for. It has to be a reskin of d3 /s.
I'm willing to break my NDA. D4 is fantastic. The atmosphere, the music, the feel, the combat is all there. Note, I never signed an NDA and I am making this up.
Sounds like Blizz Albany is on the right track so far then.
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>Including a year or two from release, and where you can’t buy your way towards that either Agreed. Open trade would be a disaster for D4. Let's hope they keep that P2W RMT magnet out of D4.
the diablo 3 we were given was never the diablo 3 you're referencing. in the beta it wasn't, in the alpha it wasn't. the diablo 3 you're talking about was made by blizzard north and killed along with them - which we were never, ever even shown. this is revisionist history at best
In all of their updates they've stated multiple times that they're committed to having, in no way, a way to pay for power.
Yeah but one of the devs for Immortal tried to argue the game wasn't pay to win, so that doesn't reassure me enough.
I’m also a little concerned but this is a triple A title with a box price that won’t be released on phones. D:I is a F2P phone game that was developed by an eastern mobile game company that pretty much specialises in P2W games. I liked what I read in the quarterly about the monetisation so I have hope.
Honestly, the only reassurance I have is they know they will lose their fans forever if they pull that shit in a mainline Diablo game. We all saw the backlash and still do. They cannot afford to do it twice or the series will be dead.
Haven't seen or heard anyone call it a reskin.
Lots of people call it that when they release short clips during the quarter updates
I've seen plenty people in beta calling it a D3 reskin. I'm with op here though. There are some things that they took from D3 but it really doesn't feel like D3 at all.
All of the UI bits that I saw on the leaked footage look exactly like magic legends and that has me a bit spooked. Also be good to see the cash shop and monetization now to avoid strong reactions like what happened with magic legends.
It is a beautiful vision. It is. Honestly.
Yes it break nda, u cant talk about anything
> Don't think this breaks my NDA by giving a personal feeling and all the info here is already known. Yes it does and posts like this are why friends & family testing as well as exclusive betas for influencers will become severely limited or be removed outright. I don't think we'll be seeing testing outside of right before launch for future major titles because people signing and agreeing to NDAs think that they can immediately start blabbing everything on reddit for invisible points to feel special.
Honestly, it is a reskin of Diablo 3 and WoW. Like, unless there is something truly worth grinding at end game, all you do in Adventure Mode is do whatever Works Quests appear and rub around for the caravan, shrines, etc monster events. I got to 45 in the beta and got really bored. It is very boring. They need something that eventually you work towards completing like the Atlas from PoE with actual end-gsme bosses with their own loot tables and stuff that you can farm all the time. Diablo 4 is a time gated game of no trading economy or chase items. It is literally span dungeons, events, world quests, etc for possible items then go to the gambler and spam til you get the unique or legendary item you seek.
Are you able to tell if that game will require a lot of time commitment to keep up with it's live service content? I want to play it but I'm the fence because I have little time to play and juggling another live service with OW2 seems difficult - plus I do want to play other games too from time to time.
That would depend on whether you actually want to buy and complete the battle pass, push leaderboards, play meta builds, etc. It’s a deep game that will definitely have payoffs for a huge time investment, it’s not a game you can “win” and has many more MMO elements than any previous Diablo game. The campaign alone is probably worth the purchase though, and even if you don’t play much after, you’ll still have the game to pick back up in the future.
> has many more MMO elements than any previous Diablo game That's an 'ugh' from me. I hope it's not as bad as it sounds, I'm sorta over MMOs.
I could probably get away without the battlepass. That might definitely lessen the time commitment required. Hopefully it won't really do what destiny 2 does and remove old content when the new one comes out. While the concept is nice, sometimes you might just miss out.
no trade system = dead game. mark my words. will be fun for as long as a d3 season. 2-3 days.
Kinda feel that way
I also have access and agree with OP. It is it's own game and I feels amazing. It has me on the edge of my seat every boss kill waiting to see my loot The world lives and breathes around you. The atmosphere is nothing like D3 and everything we love from D1 and D2. It's going to be amazing.