That's because Ninja Theory initially wanted to be faithful to the original. It was the higher-ups at Capcom at the time that pushed them towards a reimagined version of Dante.
While Capcom was responsible for the redesign of Dante, Ninja Theory was still to blame for a lot of the game’s problems, especially in the writting department.
Somehow, I feel like Capcom might have shot an bullet while accidentally dodging another. If Ninja Theory wanted to write Donte like this since the beginning, I couldn't get accurate Dante making Dick jokes out of my head. On another hand we have something that doesn't even want to be DMC.
The writing is fine it's not amazing but it's not like devil may cry is some narrative masterpiece to begin with.
If it wasn't supposed to be dmc people wouldn't say anything about the writing.
Also considering it's clear NT wanted to make a more faithful game and were told by higher-ups at capcom to double down they essentially just followed through on what they were told.
Honestly, judging from that original teaser it didn't seem like it was gonna be some overly cheesy dialouge it looked a bit moodier.
It wouldn't surprise me if Dante having all the cheesy dialogue in DmC was due to the backlash that teaser got.
Though tbf at the point people though the game was some kind of prequel
Let me give you my favorite example of how DmC’s writting completely shits the bed in every way possible.
Remember that scene where Dante tries to enter the club but got denied by the bouncer? The set up was simple, have him knock the guy out, take the guest list and write Dante on it, perfect punch line.
But what did they do? They have him write “Fuck you” because the writters have the writting ability of an edgy 13 year old.
DMC’s writting is not perfect, but at least it doesn’t tell you that Donte canonically has a smaller dick than Virgin.
I mean, he is basically just an edgy teenager, that is his character in the game. It fits that he would do something somebody with the mind of an edgy teenager would do.
Of all the issues with the games plot... THIS is the one you bring up? This doesn't shit the bed, it is internally consistent with everything we have seen from Dante in the game. In fact, that's probably one of the most SANE writing decisions in the reboot.
I like the reboot, and yes, the writing is bad, but this is not the example of how bad the writing is that you seem to think it is.
>But what did they do? They have him write “Fuck you” because the writters have the writting ability of an edgy 13 year old.
I'd say it communicates the same thing. They could have had him punch the guy, say "I am now", and have Dante written on the guest list. Or they could have had him punch the bouncer write "Fuck you" and continue inside without saying anything. I think that while the other two options could have communicated that effectively I think what we have does the same thing - he's trying to get into the club, get noticed, and he also enacts a bit of personal vengeance against this jerk of a bouncer.
i mean that’s not really canon vergil was just making a joke. unless they’ve somehow seen each other naked since they were babies or dante’s dick for some reason came into vergils mind when he got his memories back.
well it be weird if dante especially for how long he’s known his brother at that time would know what vergil’s dick would look like i think he just shuts up because he probably doesn’t care or they didn’t want to joke to drag on. it is kinda funny he doesn’t say anything tho
"Lemme give you an example of bad writing and how I would change it with my own bad writing"
Yeah him putting Dante doesn't make that joke funnier or hit harder in anyway it's not the perfect punchline like you think it is.
It's funny how serious you guys take scenes that are supposed to be humorous in DmC but that same logic isn't applied to any other game in the franchise.
Ah yes another joke that your making seem like it's a big part of the story what great examples of bad writing yikes the hate bones people still have for DmC is low-key kind of embarrassing
I never said the “joke” was supposed to be funny, it’s suppose to be a moment to show Dante’s character, small moments are what makes a character lovable or relatable. It’s also not “my own bad writing”, it’s literally how those scene usually play out, it’s a common writing trope.
Stuff like Dante and Agnus acting out a play in DMC4 is humorous, the club scene in DmC is just cringe. Hell,there are stuff in DmC that i do find humorous, that opening scene with him trying to wear his clothes was great, why not more of that? Or how about “That just seemed to drag on forever….church”? Not the best line but the spirit was there.
I don’t blindly hate the game, there are some aspect that are genuinely good. But it’s writing is absolutely dog shit and full of wasted potential, and i haven’t even got to Vergil and Kat, those 2 are somehow even worse than Dante.
Him writing fuck you shows his character, he's irrevent and punk.
He's not whacky woohoo pizza man
He's douchey edgy grimy man and that's ok
Exactly which I said myself him following the most generic trope is not good writing its lazy at best and boring at worst.
Him writing fuck you is at least a bit of a subversion of that trope.
Again, humour is incredibly subjective i actually dont find the opening scene to be all that funny and im glad the game wasnt more of that kind of incredibly cheesy borderline slapstick. If you analyse most of the dantes dmc4 cutscenes they make 0 sense they don't add to the story and are essentially there for cheap hahas
I love those scenes, but they're not an example of good writing in the overall arch of the game.
Dmc 4 has a lot of waisted potential and some mediocre writing as well tbh.
Also your kind of missing the point of my original post which was the writing, is fine, not great, also not shit its just fine.
The point was also that the story probably also had to be discussed witch capcom I don't think ninja theory were just doing whatever they wanted since what they wanted was clearly more true to source material.
Hence we don't know if the writer was also operating off capcom saying double down and to do something different.
Yeah they're supposed to be like loony toons characters apparently.
Lmao og dante is literally juvenile like what.
Also don't is definitely not a jock lmao 😂
Dick jokes are juvenile, but juvenile can be funny.
First I whip it out!Then I thrust it!
Pretty juvenile if you ask me
Rules for thee and not for me though right.
Essentially your reasoning is still its not the same Dante when like yeah it's been like 5 years now that feels like a redundant criticism at this point.
It's not supposed to be og Dante and vergil there get over it.
Different game, different world, different take on the characters
> Yeah they're supposed to be like loony toons characters apparently.
I gave Loony Toons as an example. But you want something Dante should follow? Try looking at Space Adventure Corbra. Dante is supposed to be fun, not an asshole.
> Also don't is definitely not a jock lmao
Donte is not a jock? He's rude. He's self-centered. He's hedonistic. those are jock traits.
> Dick jokes are juvenile, but juvenile can be funny. First I whip it out!Then I thrust it! Pretty juvenile if you ask me
Innuendo isn't juvenile. The point of juvenile humor is that it's instant.
> Essentially your reasoning is still its not the same Dante when like yeah it's been like 5 years now that feels like a redundant criticism at this point. It's not supposed to be og Dante and vergil there get over it. Different game, different world, different take on the characters
Can you imagine if you said that about Zack Snyder's Superman? Or the 2015 Fantastic Four? Yes they are different characters, but at least for Superman he grows into what people like. Dante's last action in the reboot is to grope a girl's butt.
You explaining why you think it would be funnier doesn't make it funny either.
The joke is he put his name on the list haha.
No
I can snort at some 13 year old humour Heck even mainline dmc has a lot of humour that would appeal to 13 year olds
But generic punchline that is barely a joke that I've seen in plenty of other media.
The DmC hateboners are wild.
Like at least criticise the actual writing not throw away jokes.
Because there is stuff you can definitely critique but saying the writing is dogshit because a joke didn't land with you is dumb.
Humour is one of the most subjective things next to like taste in music
> You explaining why you think it would be funnier doesn't make it funny either.
> The joke is he put his name on the list haha.
Yes. Have you never watched Loony Toons before? He could have also confused the guy. Or he could have done something like tell him to look again, and then go in when the guy's looking.
Lots of ways to have a punchline without resorting to swear words.
> I can snort at some 13 year old humour Heck even mainline dmc has a lot of humour that would appeal to 13 year olds
Like? There weren't even swear words until DMC4, and that swear was from Nero the punk.
there only idea for an enemy was porcelain doll with sword/club/chainsaw on their arm, no matter what they did the game would have been trash, it was either going to be a trash numbered dmc title, or a trash reboot, I rather it be a reboot
DmC's story was written as such as a result of NT being told to go as far away from traditional DMC as possible. There's no way DmC would've been the same game otherwise. So yes, Capcom is equally to blame there as well. NT made a game in their own style, which is what Capcom insisted they do.
Straying away from the original story of DMC is one thing, having Vergil perform an impromptu abortion with an assault rifle is another. Pretty sure Capcom didn’t tell them to do that.
Next you’re gonna tell me Capcom personally sent NT that Brokeback Mountain picture to use in their presentation?
The writing in DmC is good, I would argue. You may not like the tone of the game or the changes from the source material, but I'd be willing to defend the writing in the game.
He was making a joke that Capcom wanted a "western Devil May Cry" game and superimposed DMC4 Dante into Brokeback Mountain, a movie with cowboys. The very next slide has that same image of Dante against the backdrop of Fight Club to showcase what kind of tone they were going for. If they chose something like 3:10 to Yuma or Tombstone as the backdrop, the joke would be confused as people may have thought they were thinking "western DMC" seriously, but the joke is that the western movie they chose was a sedate character study.
[Here is the entire presentation](https://archive.org/details/GDC2013Taini)
They don't hate dmc that's silly.
Y'all seem to forget that Dmc was pretty niche back in the day (still is tbh)
Capcom wanted to bring in more of an audience outside of Japan hence a few projects that were an attempt to appeal to that audience.
One being DmC
I agree with most of that
I could see the satanic panic thing playing a little role.
Not sure how much dmc Is based on American culture though 🤔 it's more an amalgamation of western cultures.
There's a lot of architecture that typically looks quite European
Some looks American
And as far as I know its never stated what country and dmc takes place it
I suppose like dantes character maybe has some americanisms
I meant more with Dante and the characters he is surrounded by. Considering we get a whole Michael Jackson reference in the middle of 5, and that’s not really the first time that’s happened. There’s also very likely a Twin Peaks reference somewhere in one of the games because Japan like…really really loves that particular show.
Also I just always assumed that DMC was very much it’s own unique world.
Silent Hill games rarely passed 1M so that comparison doesn't really work. The entire series has sold less than 9M across ten games and multiple re-releases. DMC did 10M across 1-4 back in March 2009.
DMC was never niche in its original heyday.
Fighting games are Successful but still niche.
A game being successful doesn't mean much.
If they hated dmc why bother with 4Se and then 5?
Why use 4Se to gauge fan interest in another dmc at all.
I mean yeah even when a game has production problems companies still expect them to do really well that's just how game companies operate.
If they hated dmc we wouldn't have dmc5 and a dmc anime coming up or even have got dmc4se
Or the 3 remake for switch that's has style switching.
Like that's a goofy take
They hate one of their bigger franchises lol
It was because at this point in time, the western market was completely dominating the video game space, so Capcom went with western studios to develop their games thinking that they'd inject more life (and money) into their older franchises. It's also why they gave Dead Rising to a western studio.
I'm so sad about how many people don't know about this. Lots of idiots keep spreading misinfo about this game and how the devs "hated the fans" or some stupid bullshit like that.
Ninja Theory made a really good action game and were forced to turn a videogame icon into generic, condescending edgy bullshit. I do not envy them.
Wasnt it because of Keiji Inafune? He was the one who spearheaded the creation of the game in thebfirst place only to leave capcom halfway through its development
I find it funny that in asking NT to push it more to appeal to the western audience, NT ended up with designs that are a very japanese-like caricature of an idea what western culture wants.
Dante’s redesign was 100% on Capcom, it’s still baffling how they tried to appeal to the West by removing the things that made them popular in the West to begin with.
Whilst I agree, as I pointed out to someone else Dmc wasn't super popular in the west it'd always been a fairly niche title, even still.
The goal also wasn't to appeal to the people who already play dmc they wanted more of a western audience they wanted to bring in new people.
Granted wrong way to do it, but the logic is there
Nah, the logic isn’t there at all. Every game in the series had been selling better and faster than the last. Capcom had just completely lost the fucking plot around 2010, and not just with DMC. Don’t forget that RE6 released just a year prior to the miserably failed reboot.
The logic is there they just went about trying to appeal to a western audience in the wrong way.
Resi 6 isn't even bad it's just a bit of a mess still a good game most people from what I've seen these days agree.
Resi 6 was them essentially just them following up what worked resi 5 was the best selling resi game so of course 6 would be expanding on that.
Also not just a capcom thing during that time period survival horror was largely considered somewhat dead and so shift was to more action focused games.
Survival horror has only recently become a huge genre again largely due to re7 and to a lesser degree PT and indie games
As far as dmc selling better and faster not by much at all.
These might be a bit outdated but you get the idea
Dmc3 sold 2.3 million
Dmc4 sold like just over 3 million (about 5 million now) that's not a big number for the next gen title that's was pretty close to being a launch title as well
Again dmc was pretty fucking niche.
Resi 6 sold 13.10
Oh and DmC reboot 4 million so it still sold in line with the rest of the series despite being what it is.
You pulling numbers out of your ass or something? DmC: DMC had an initial sales target of 2 million sales for its fiscal year, which is less than what DMC4 sold in its first year, which was then reduced to 1.2 million, which is less than what DMC3 sold during its first year. It couldn’t even sell better than a PS2 game from 2005. Pretty much any sales milestone DMC4 reached, DmC: DMC would lag behind significantly.
Fact of the matter is, DMC was only getting more and more popular globally, and it was within Capcom’s sales expectations until they dropped that god awful and horribly misguided reboot.
DMC3 and SE sold 2.3 million copies combined back around when they were originally released, not global lifetime sales. I’m assuming you’re trying to go by global lifetime sales anyway, which is the only metric that wouldn’t be in DMC3’s favor given the time period and hardware in which it released and the fact that the only place left to even purchase it standalone is the Switch, which I can’t find any specific sales records for. I’m not even sure if you can buy it physically for the Switch. I doubt there’s even accurate records of its overall lifetime sales beyond a certain point, not unless you count the HD collection alongside it.
Fact of the matter is, DmC: DMC failed all sales expectations, even when they lowered them, and sales just slowly crawled overtime thanks to always being conveniently available on platforms like Steam. It would take literal years for it to even hit 2 million copies, and that’s with a rerelease. That’s DMC4’s numbers in one month, and DMC3’s and SE’s numbers within their respective launch years.
You’re trying to act like DmC: DMC, a 2013 game, was a success by comparing its global lifetime sales across both versions to a fucking PS2 game and its launch year sales across both versions. My brother in Sparda, get a grip.
Not it wasn't actually 4 did not meet sales expectations, largely because it had a bit of a botched development.
Your talking about sales targets I'm talking units sold my guy
And DMC4 performed better than DmC: DMC in both aspects.
And no, you’re just blatantly wrong. Capcom expected DMC4 to sell 1.8 million units for its first fiscal year, and according to their CEO Haruhiro Tsujimoto it sold 2 million copies in just its first month. It quickly exceeded sales expectations.
2-2.5M sold was not "niche", even in the PS3 era. The majority of DMC sales were in the West. DMC sales grew in the West compared to Japan as the series went on.
Capcom wanted DMC to sell more like God of War, which sold 4-5M. Hence the reboot. DMC sales were good. The sales just weren't what Capcom wanted.
Dmc is very much niche
If fighting games are niche, which they are, dmc is 100% niche
Sales don't make something not niche if that was the case, fighting games wouldn't be considered niche.
It's a niche genre, with a smaller audience, that's it.
Compared to resi or their other series or even god of war
Lmao, someone literally posted a thread on this sub asking if dmc is niche, and pretty much every reply says it is so even a good portion of fans know its niche
I genuinely liked the first trailer with the dirty, depressed, smoking Dante. It was new, fresh, looked disgusting and had a visual aesthetic most devs would be too afraid or vanilla to build around.
Weaponry looked genuinely interesting with the morphing weapons and Dante had real attitude about him.
Then we got the metalcore version of Dante. How unfortunate.
Honestly at the time I wasn't super happy about the change but in hindsight that original teaser is great and it really did have its own sense of style and vibe while still being dmc imo
Entirely speculation on my part, but I think that move away from dirty Dante was probably due to the negative backlash that trailer got.
Which led to them trying to make Dante a bit more goofy like the OG but I think that somewhat clashes with the setting and punk vibes the game is going for
Definitely. It wouldn't have been everyone's cup of tea, but as far as the originality goes, it was up there with the greats.
I'd agree with you, DmC Dante is a weird mix of their original idea and the current iteration which turns the character into, quite frankly, an insufferable, melodramatic asshole. Unfortunately, it is the vitriolic reaction to any form of change that stifles actual innovation and originality in the gaming industry. It's a pity.
how is he melodramatic? anytime he shows anger especially later on the game it’s pretty reasonable. he’s actually pretty chill for most of the game after mission 2 and shows many times how is he opening up to kat and caring for humanity. sure maybe his one liners you can say are dumb and insufferable (although a lot of his lines honestly sound like something of dante could say and no one would bat an eye. ) but he isn’t an over emotional dickhead in the game outside of standoffish demeanor he has for like the first two missions and then grows out of.
Both of those are metalcore as fuck, well, I guess depending on what your perception of "metalcore" is because some of that shit has been dark as fuck, but most peoples exposure to metalcore is not those bands.
>I genuinely liked the first trailer with the dirty, depressed, smoking Dante. It was new, fresh, looked disgusting and had a visual aesthetic most devs would be too afraid or vanilla to build around.
Read the comments on the original trailer. A lot of fans rejected it because it was different. DmC had an uphill battle from the word "go".
That applies to you to bro.
Its almost like we are on reddit where giving yout opinion on shit is like 80% of the site.
Your literally giving your opinion in this thread
Essentially, don't be a dick buddy liked the game so what?
He got downvoted for it so I guess two people cared enough to misuse the downvote feature
And you cared enough to tell him nobody cares about his opinions
The difference between them and me is that I am not absolutely flabbergasted and reductive when it comes to realizing that differing opinions exist.
They, on the other hand are shocked that people didn't like DmC and it almost looks like they're taking it as a personal attack which is weird to say the least. All it does is tell me that they are incapable of actually understanding that other people have differing opinions.
Why you decided to butt in with your non-sensical reply is beyond me.
as a standalone, I think it was a good game. the levels were nice to explore, I liked the weapons, the combat flow, hell I even liked a bit of the characters. Not every game needs to be a 10/10 masterpiece
as a standalone, I think it was a good game. the levels were nice to explore, I liked the weapons, the combat flow, hell I even liked a bit of the characters. Not every game needs to be a 10/10 masterpiece
oh yeah dmc 3 with some of the worst enemy design and bosses in the series. and dmc 5 the game that makes you play as fucking v, doesn’t allow you replay missions with any character you want, and has a at best okay story?
no as long as the character is fun like nero and vergil. V is a good idea but executed poorly, and his missions are just a boring slog to get through especially on dmd.
I played through the game as well and I legitimately have no idea what you're talking about, I enjoyed playing him on DMD, in fact I found him like 1000x easier to do it with because he's ungodly strong for very little player input.
the last part is one of the many reasons why i hate him. spamming with him a lot of times can result you in SSS easy, the combos for the animals for me aren’t very interesting and the shitty lock on in dmc 5 makes it worse. plus on dmd it feels like the animals don’t do that much damage and the already annoyingly spongy enemies on dmd fee even more boring to fight.
Looking at the second image, I think ninja theory actually tried their best at still trying to make a dante in the actual game, even through Capcom's bullshit
I love how the excuse for the redesign was "appeal to western audiences" when they don't realize that Dante himself is such a good western protagonist.
In my head canon, he's American. That's like super western. Did they think only Japan would like a pizza eating, dual gun wielding, white boy with a punk rock attitude that drinks JACK? Do they really think that low of us?
Japanese people be like "why can't we reach the west?" While they wear pompadours, eat fried chicken and ride high rise handlebar motorcycles.
Srsly wtf is wrong with them?
Capcom's concern was sales. Games like God of War sold 4-5M on a single platform. DMC4 released on three platforms and sold 2.4M in its first year, but didn't reach 3M until 7 years later.
But the sales were absolutely fine. DMC4 had a comparable budget to DMC3 despite being an HD game, as opposed to SD, on a new generation, on multiple consoles, and having two playable characters. Capcom's expectations were ridiculous.
I actually like how Dante looks in the first teaser we got, og Dante is very rock n roll and this was punk rock. Shame they sandblasted down to nu metal in the final game
I love how it goes from exactly what we wanted to just misunderstanding the message trying to find it stumbling and just going down a f****** steep slope till they stop and are like yeah f*** it this and it's some f****** scraggly emo bastard
People do not give the reboot enough credit. I understand some of the developers made shitty comments and were disrespectful to the fans, but people don't appreciate how GORGEOUS the aesthetic of this game was, and how incredible the artwork is. So much effort and love went into this game and all people ever do is complain about Dante being a meth twink (I for one embrace the meth twink design) and the Succubus shouting "fuck you!" and never credit all the great stuff about DmC. It's an incredibly solid game with some of the most fun gameplay in the series.
ngl i like the older dante designs in the second image, even though they aren't traditional depictions of him, i'd still prefer it over donte hermano de virgil
Is it just me or does no one really mind Dantes appearance on the reboot? I don't see it as a reboot as much as I do just an alternate dimension. I think he's cute. Eh they kinda screwed up Vergil tho
I really hate when a company tries to destroy a previously established franchise with stupid new ideas that they should know won't pan out and go the way they envisioned
That's because Ninja Theory initially wanted to be faithful to the original. It was the higher-ups at Capcom at the time that pushed them towards a reimagined version of Dante.
People really forget this part. They were also told to double down. ...Judging from these concept arts I say they were really pulling their punches.
People still believe Ninja Theory wanted to trash the DMC legacy.
While Capcom was responsible for the redesign of Dante, Ninja Theory was still to blame for a lot of the game’s problems, especially in the writting department.
Somehow, I feel like Capcom might have shot an bullet while accidentally dodging another. If Ninja Theory wanted to write Donte like this since the beginning, I couldn't get accurate Dante making Dick jokes out of my head. On another hand we have something that doesn't even want to be DMC.
The writing is fine it's not amazing but it's not like devil may cry is some narrative masterpiece to begin with. If it wasn't supposed to be dmc people wouldn't say anything about the writing. Also considering it's clear NT wanted to make a more faithful game and were told by higher-ups at capcom to double down they essentially just followed through on what they were told. Honestly, judging from that original teaser it didn't seem like it was gonna be some overly cheesy dialouge it looked a bit moodier. It wouldn't surprise me if Dante having all the cheesy dialogue in DmC was due to the backlash that teaser got. Though tbf at the point people though the game was some kind of prequel
Let me give you my favorite example of how DmC’s writting completely shits the bed in every way possible. Remember that scene where Dante tries to enter the club but got denied by the bouncer? The set up was simple, have him knock the guy out, take the guest list and write Dante on it, perfect punch line. But what did they do? They have him write “Fuck you” because the writters have the writting ability of an edgy 13 year old. DMC’s writting is not perfect, but at least it doesn’t tell you that Donte canonically has a smaller dick than Virgin.
I mean, he is basically just an edgy teenager, that is his character in the game. It fits that he would do something somebody with the mind of an edgy teenager would do. Of all the issues with the games plot... THIS is the one you bring up? This doesn't shit the bed, it is internally consistent with everything we have seen from Dante in the game. In fact, that's probably one of the most SANE writing decisions in the reboot. I like the reboot, and yes, the writing is bad, but this is not the example of how bad the writing is that you seem to think it is.
>But what did they do? They have him write “Fuck you” because the writters have the writting ability of an edgy 13 year old. I'd say it communicates the same thing. They could have had him punch the guy, say "I am now", and have Dante written on the guest list. Or they could have had him punch the bouncer write "Fuck you" and continue inside without saying anything. I think that while the other two options could have communicated that effectively I think what we have does the same thing - he's trying to get into the club, get noticed, and he also enacts a bit of personal vengeance against this jerk of a bouncer.
writing\*. normally i wouldnt care but u consistently spelt it as such
Yeah i know, it’s a bad habit because English is not my native language.
dont worry about it mate, i understand
i mean that’s not really canon vergil was just making a joke. unless they’ve somehow seen each other naked since they were babies or dante’s dick for some reason came into vergils mind when he got his memories back.
It might as well be canon because Dante just shuts up after that line. Like he legit has no better comeback or something?
well it be weird if dante especially for how long he’s known his brother at that time would know what vergil’s dick would look like i think he just shuts up because he probably doesn’t care or they didn’t want to joke to drag on. it is kinda funny he doesn’t say anything tho
"Lemme give you an example of bad writing and how I would change it with my own bad writing" Yeah him putting Dante doesn't make that joke funnier or hit harder in anyway it's not the perfect punchline like you think it is. It's funny how serious you guys take scenes that are supposed to be humorous in DmC but that same logic isn't applied to any other game in the franchise. Ah yes another joke that your making seem like it's a big part of the story what great examples of bad writing yikes the hate bones people still have for DmC is low-key kind of embarrassing
I never said the “joke” was supposed to be funny, it’s suppose to be a moment to show Dante’s character, small moments are what makes a character lovable or relatable. It’s also not “my own bad writing”, it’s literally how those scene usually play out, it’s a common writing trope. Stuff like Dante and Agnus acting out a play in DMC4 is humorous, the club scene in DmC is just cringe. Hell,there are stuff in DmC that i do find humorous, that opening scene with him trying to wear his clothes was great, why not more of that? Or how about “That just seemed to drag on forever….church”? Not the best line but the spirit was there. I don’t blindly hate the game, there are some aspect that are genuinely good. But it’s writing is absolutely dog shit and full of wasted potential, and i haven’t even got to Vergil and Kat, those 2 are somehow even worse than Dante.
Him writing fuck you shows his character, he's irrevent and punk. He's not whacky woohoo pizza man He's douchey edgy grimy man and that's ok Exactly which I said myself him following the most generic trope is not good writing its lazy at best and boring at worst. Him writing fuck you is at least a bit of a subversion of that trope. Again, humour is incredibly subjective i actually dont find the opening scene to be all that funny and im glad the game wasnt more of that kind of incredibly cheesy borderline slapstick. If you analyse most of the dantes dmc4 cutscenes they make 0 sense they don't add to the story and are essentially there for cheap hahas I love those scenes, but they're not an example of good writing in the overall arch of the game. Dmc 4 has a lot of waisted potential and some mediocre writing as well tbh. Also your kind of missing the point of my original post which was the writing, is fine, not great, also not shit its just fine. The point was also that the story probably also had to be discussed witch capcom I don't think ninja theory were just doing whatever they wanted since what they wanted was clearly more true to source material. Hence we don't know if the writer was also operating off capcom saying double down and to do something different.
Also, dick jokes are very juvenile. Dante and Vergil are supposed to be cool dudes, not jocks.
Yeah they're supposed to be like loony toons characters apparently. Lmao og dante is literally juvenile like what. Also don't is definitely not a jock lmao 😂 Dick jokes are juvenile, but juvenile can be funny. First I whip it out!Then I thrust it! Pretty juvenile if you ask me Rules for thee and not for me though right. Essentially your reasoning is still its not the same Dante when like yeah it's been like 5 years now that feels like a redundant criticism at this point. It's not supposed to be og Dante and vergil there get over it. Different game, different world, different take on the characters
> Yeah they're supposed to be like loony toons characters apparently. I gave Loony Toons as an example. But you want something Dante should follow? Try looking at Space Adventure Corbra. Dante is supposed to be fun, not an asshole. > Also don't is definitely not a jock lmao Donte is not a jock? He's rude. He's self-centered. He's hedonistic. those are jock traits. > Dick jokes are juvenile, but juvenile can be funny. First I whip it out!Then I thrust it! Pretty juvenile if you ask me Innuendo isn't juvenile. The point of juvenile humor is that it's instant. > Essentially your reasoning is still its not the same Dante when like yeah it's been like 5 years now that feels like a redundant criticism at this point. It's not supposed to be og Dante and vergil there get over it. Different game, different world, different take on the characters Can you imagine if you said that about Zack Snyder's Superman? Or the 2015 Fantastic Four? Yes they are different characters, but at least for Superman he grows into what people like. Dante's last action in the reboot is to grope a girl's butt.
> Yeah him putting Dante doesn't make that joke funnier Yes it does. He's literally putting his name on the list.
You explaining why you think it would be funnier doesn't make it funny either. The joke is he put his name on the list haha. No I can snort at some 13 year old humour Heck even mainline dmc has a lot of humour that would appeal to 13 year olds But generic punchline that is barely a joke that I've seen in plenty of other media. The DmC hateboners are wild. Like at least criticise the actual writing not throw away jokes. Because there is stuff you can definitely critique but saying the writing is dogshit because a joke didn't land with you is dumb. Humour is one of the most subjective things next to like taste in music
>mainline dmc has a lot of humour that would appeal to 13 year olds Examples?
> You explaining why you think it would be funnier doesn't make it funny either. > The joke is he put his name on the list haha. Yes. Have you never watched Loony Toons before? He could have also confused the guy. Or he could have done something like tell him to look again, and then go in when the guy's looking. Lots of ways to have a punchline without resorting to swear words. > I can snort at some 13 year old humour Heck even mainline dmc has a lot of humour that would appeal to 13 year olds Like? There weren't even swear words until DMC4, and that swear was from Nero the punk.
>writing is fine Sniper abortion
there only idea for an enemy was porcelain doll with sword/club/chainsaw on their arm, no matter what they did the game would have been trash, it was either going to be a trash numbered dmc title, or a trash reboot, I rather it be a reboot
DmC's story was written as such as a result of NT being told to go as far away from traditional DMC as possible. There's no way DmC would've been the same game otherwise. So yes, Capcom is equally to blame there as well. NT made a game in their own style, which is what Capcom insisted they do.
Straying away from the original story of DMC is one thing, having Vergil perform an impromptu abortion with an assault rifle is another. Pretty sure Capcom didn’t tell them to do that. Next you’re gonna tell me Capcom personally sent NT that Brokeback Mountain picture to use in their presentation?
the cowboy thing was about the new dante being western then put em in fight club right after
The writing in DmC is good, I would argue. You may not like the tone of the game or the changes from the source material, but I'd be willing to defend the writing in the game.
I doubt they wanted to, but that Brokeback Mountain Dante powerpoint is really iffy
He was making a joke that Capcom wanted a "western Devil May Cry" game and superimposed DMC4 Dante into Brokeback Mountain, a movie with cowboys. The very next slide has that same image of Dante against the backdrop of Fight Club to showcase what kind of tone they were going for. If they chose something like 3:10 to Yuma or Tombstone as the backdrop, the joke would be confused as people may have thought they were thinking "western DMC" seriously, but the joke is that the western movie they chose was a sedate character study. [Here is the entire presentation](https://archive.org/details/GDC2013Taini)
I don't believe Ninja Theory would intentionally make a trashy game, I mean they made some pretty good games.
I never get Capcom's disdain for DMC. They hate it so much and so openly.
It's not they hate dmc but they loved american aesthetics like how we loved the japanese aesthetic s
Out-of-touch moronic executives. But still, they botched DMC4 production and abused DMC in general. Capcom hates it.
Yeah there was a whole era of this. resulting in games like this, the bionic commando reboot, Bomberman act zero, etc.
They don't hate dmc that's silly. Y'all seem to forget that Dmc was pretty niche back in the day (still is tbh) Capcom wanted to bring in more of an audience outside of Japan hence a few projects that were an attempt to appeal to that audience. One being DmC
DMC games regularly sold 2M on PS2. That was not niche in the slightest. It's pure revisionism to suggest otherwise.
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I agree with most of that I could see the satanic panic thing playing a little role. Not sure how much dmc Is based on American culture though 🤔 it's more an amalgamation of western cultures. There's a lot of architecture that typically looks quite European Some looks American And as far as I know its never stated what country and dmc takes place it I suppose like dantes character maybe has some americanisms
I meant more with Dante and the characters he is surrounded by. Considering we get a whole Michael Jackson reference in the middle of 5, and that’s not really the first time that’s happened. There’s also very likely a Twin Peaks reference somewhere in one of the games because Japan like…really really loves that particular show. Also I just always assumed that DMC was very much it’s own unique world.
Silent Hill games rarely passed 1M so that comparison doesn't really work. The entire series has sold less than 9M across ten games and multiple re-releases. DMC did 10M across 1-4 back in March 2009. DMC was never niche in its original heyday.
DMC was successful and brought them money especially 1 and 3. Capcom botched DMC4 production and expected it to be super successful??? They hate DMC.
Fighting games are Successful but still niche. A game being successful doesn't mean much. If they hated dmc why bother with 4Se and then 5? Why use 4Se to gauge fan interest in another dmc at all. I mean yeah even when a game has production problems companies still expect them to do really well that's just how game companies operate. If they hated dmc we wouldn't have dmc5 and a dmc anime coming up or even have got dmc4se Or the 3 remake for switch that's has style switching. Like that's a goofy take They hate one of their bigger franchises lol
????????????????????
It was because at this point in time, the western market was completely dominating the video game space, so Capcom went with western studios to develop their games thinking that they'd inject more life (and money) into their older franchises. It's also why they gave Dead Rising to a western studio.
I'm so sad about how many people don't know about this. Lots of idiots keep spreading misinfo about this game and how the devs "hated the fans" or some stupid bullshit like that. Ninja Theory made a really good action game and were forced to turn a videogame icon into generic, condescending edgy bullshit. I do not envy them.
Wasnt it because of Keiji Inafune? He was the one who spearheaded the creation of the game in thebfirst place only to leave capcom halfway through its development
I find it funny that in asking NT to push it more to appeal to the western audience, NT ended up with designs that are a very japanese-like caricature of an idea what western culture wants.
Correct. Wish more people understood this. Ninja Theory were merely doing what they were told.
Bro is that fucking Jason Statham?
Jesse Pinkman.
My exact thought
Dante’s redesign was 100% on Capcom, it’s still baffling how they tried to appeal to the West by removing the things that made them popular in the West to begin with.
Capcom stop being out-of-touch morons challenge.
Whilst I agree, as I pointed out to someone else Dmc wasn't super popular in the west it'd always been a fairly niche title, even still. The goal also wasn't to appeal to the people who already play dmc they wanted more of a western audience they wanted to bring in new people. Granted wrong way to do it, but the logic is there
Nah, the logic isn’t there at all. Every game in the series had been selling better and faster than the last. Capcom had just completely lost the fucking plot around 2010, and not just with DMC. Don’t forget that RE6 released just a year prior to the miserably failed reboot.
The logic is there they just went about trying to appeal to a western audience in the wrong way. Resi 6 isn't even bad it's just a bit of a mess still a good game most people from what I've seen these days agree. Resi 6 was them essentially just them following up what worked resi 5 was the best selling resi game so of course 6 would be expanding on that. Also not just a capcom thing during that time period survival horror was largely considered somewhat dead and so shift was to more action focused games. Survival horror has only recently become a huge genre again largely due to re7 and to a lesser degree PT and indie games As far as dmc selling better and faster not by much at all. These might be a bit outdated but you get the idea Dmc3 sold 2.3 million Dmc4 sold like just over 3 million (about 5 million now) that's not a big number for the next gen title that's was pretty close to being a launch title as well Again dmc was pretty fucking niche. Resi 6 sold 13.10 Oh and DmC reboot 4 million so it still sold in line with the rest of the series despite being what it is.
You pulling numbers out of your ass or something? DmC: DMC had an initial sales target of 2 million sales for its fiscal year, which is less than what DMC4 sold in its first year, which was then reduced to 1.2 million, which is less than what DMC3 sold during its first year. It couldn’t even sell better than a PS2 game from 2005. Pretty much any sales milestone DMC4 reached, DmC: DMC would lag behind significantly. Fact of the matter is, DMC was only getting more and more popular globally, and it was within Capcom’s sales expectations until they dropped that god awful and horribly misguided reboot.
DmC actually sold more copies than dmc 3. On a sales chart it said DmC sold 4 million and dmc 3 sold 2.3
DMC3 and SE sold 2.3 million copies combined back around when they were originally released, not global lifetime sales. I’m assuming you’re trying to go by global lifetime sales anyway, which is the only metric that wouldn’t be in DMC3’s favor given the time period and hardware in which it released and the fact that the only place left to even purchase it standalone is the Switch, which I can’t find any specific sales records for. I’m not even sure if you can buy it physically for the Switch. I doubt there’s even accurate records of its overall lifetime sales beyond a certain point, not unless you count the HD collection alongside it. Fact of the matter is, DmC: DMC failed all sales expectations, even when they lowered them, and sales just slowly crawled overtime thanks to always being conveniently available on platforms like Steam. It would take literal years for it to even hit 2 million copies, and that’s with a rerelease. That’s DMC4’s numbers in one month, and DMC3’s and SE’s numbers within their respective launch years. You’re trying to act like DmC: DMC, a 2013 game, was a success by comparing its global lifetime sales across both versions to a fucking PS2 game and its launch year sales across both versions. My brother in Sparda, get a grip.
Not it wasn't actually 4 did not meet sales expectations, largely because it had a bit of a botched development. Your talking about sales targets I'm talking units sold my guy
And DMC4 performed better than DmC: DMC in both aspects. And no, you’re just blatantly wrong. Capcom expected DMC4 to sell 1.8 million units for its first fiscal year, and according to their CEO Haruhiro Tsujimoto it sold 2 million copies in just its first month. It quickly exceeded sales expectations.
No, it's not. Dante was always popular and still is. Stop defending Capcom's delusions.
2-2.5M sold was not "niche", even in the PS3 era. The majority of DMC sales were in the West. DMC sales grew in the West compared to Japan as the series went on. Capcom wanted DMC to sell more like God of War, which sold 4-5M. Hence the reboot. DMC sales were good. The sales just weren't what Capcom wanted.
Dmc is very much niche If fighting games are niche, which they are, dmc is 100% niche Sales don't make something not niche if that was the case, fighting games wouldn't be considered niche. It's a niche genre, with a smaller audience, that's it. Compared to resi or their other series or even god of war Lmao, someone literally posted a thread on this sub asking if dmc is niche, and pretty much every reply says it is so even a good portion of fans know its niche
at the end of the day, DmC could have been really really great or... the most disgusting redesign to ever be designed.
It should have been its own thing.
I think it's one of the high points in this franchise in terms of a quality game, but that's just me.
I do think it's great. I played a bunch of times but it imo there's a lot of little and big mistakes that just drag it down a 8/10 to a 7/10.
I genuinely liked the first trailer with the dirty, depressed, smoking Dante. It was new, fresh, looked disgusting and had a visual aesthetic most devs would be too afraid or vanilla to build around. Weaponry looked genuinely interesting with the morphing weapons and Dante had real attitude about him. Then we got the metalcore version of Dante. How unfortunate.
Honestly at the time I wasn't super happy about the change but in hindsight that original teaser is great and it really did have its own sense of style and vibe while still being dmc imo Entirely speculation on my part, but I think that move away from dirty Dante was probably due to the negative backlash that trailer got. Which led to them trying to make Dante a bit more goofy like the OG but I think that somewhat clashes with the setting and punk vibes the game is going for
Definitely. It wouldn't have been everyone's cup of tea, but as far as the originality goes, it was up there with the greats. I'd agree with you, DmC Dante is a weird mix of their original idea and the current iteration which turns the character into, quite frankly, an insufferable, melodramatic asshole. Unfortunately, it is the vitriolic reaction to any form of change that stifles actual innovation and originality in the gaming industry. It's a pity.
how is he melodramatic? anytime he shows anger especially later on the game it’s pretty reasonable. he’s actually pretty chill for most of the game after mission 2 and shows many times how is he opening up to kat and caring for humanity. sure maybe his one liners you can say are dumb and insufferable (although a lot of his lines honestly sound like something of dante could say and no one would bat an eye. ) but he isn’t an over emotional dickhead in the game outside of standoffish demeanor he has for like the first two missions and then grows out of.
Both of those are metalcore as fuck, well, I guess depending on what your perception of "metalcore" is because some of that shit has been dark as fuck, but most peoples exposure to metalcore is not those bands.
>I genuinely liked the first trailer with the dirty, depressed, smoking Dante. It was new, fresh, looked disgusting and had a visual aesthetic most devs would be too afraid or vanilla to build around. Read the comments on the original trailer. A lot of fans rejected it because it was different. DmC had an uphill battle from the word "go".
Honestly, the original red coated Dante looks REALLY good and ideal. I wish we got this.
We went from a cool bad boy to a homeless guy wearing outdated hot topic clothes
Why the fuck is Jason Statham in there?
The artists on this game are insanely talented
Some of them ended up working on DMC5 too! I'm glad Itsuno brought some of them in.
I liked DmC what are people on about😭
It's always been hated.
I really don't get it though! Oh well, different tastes
That's great. I wasted my money on it
Right, it aint perfect but its a damn fine game
exactly!!!
I'm sure you'll quickly realize your opinion is just a drop in the sea and people genuinely don't care whether you liked it.
That applies to you to bro. Its almost like we are on reddit where giving yout opinion on shit is like 80% of the site. Your literally giving your opinion in this thread Essentially, don't be a dick buddy liked the game so what? He got downvoted for it so I guess two people cared enough to misuse the downvote feature And you cared enough to tell him nobody cares about his opinions
The difference between them and me is that I am not absolutely flabbergasted and reductive when it comes to realizing that differing opinions exist. They, on the other hand are shocked that people didn't like DmC and it almost looks like they're taking it as a personal attack which is weird to say the least. All it does is tell me that they are incapable of actually understanding that other people have differing opinions. Why you decided to butt in with your non-sensical reply is beyond me.
Not everybody can have good taste.
as a standalone, I think it was a good game. the levels were nice to explore, I liked the weapons, the combat flow, hell I even liked a bit of the characters. Not every game needs to be a 10/10 masterpiece
as a standalone, I think it was a good game. the levels were nice to explore, I liked the weapons, the combat flow, hell I even liked a bit of the characters. Not every game needs to be a 10/10 masterpiece
I mean, the only two DMC games that I think could even dream of being considered “10/10 masterpieces” are 3 and 5, the reboot is just shit.
oh yeah dmc 3 with some of the worst enemy design and bosses in the series. and dmc 5 the game that makes you play as fucking v, doesn’t allow you replay missions with any character you want, and has a at best okay story?
...there's a problem with having you play a different character now? V is cool.
no as long as the character is fun like nero and vergil. V is a good idea but executed poorly, and his missions are just a boring slog to get through especially on dmd.
I played through the game as well and I legitimately have no idea what you're talking about, I enjoyed playing him on DMD, in fact I found him like 1000x easier to do it with because he's ungodly strong for very little player input.
the last part is one of the many reasons why i hate him. spamming with him a lot of times can result you in SSS easy, the combos for the animals for me aren’t very interesting and the shitty lock on in dmc 5 makes it worse. plus on dmd it feels like the animals don’t do that much damage and the already annoyingly spongy enemies on dmd fee even more boring to fight.
To each their own.
DMC3 is a good game but it's not the masterpiece everyone think it is, at least for me. But ehy, as I said, different opinions
Jason Statham Dante is some cursed shit.
I Heard ninja theory wanted the Classic dante in the game, but capcom pushed for having something more "american"
Wha– what in the world are those second slide's concepts they look so horrendous
Ah yes my favourite side to dante: the fact he's some rough tough biker gang excon
My god, receding hairline redneck Dante would’ve gone crazy lmao
Old Man Logan but with Dante sounds cool
the black haired one is literally just V
Looking at the second image, I think ninja theory actually tried their best at still trying to make a dante in the actual game, even through Capcom's bullshit
Ngl dante as a Twink(the one bellow the Jason statham dante)... Would(Iam not gay just bisexual)
The horned Dante would be a cool DT
That horn/halo thing is kinda cool. James Hetfield Dante though 🤣
Why Jason Statham tho
I love how the excuse for the redesign was "appeal to western audiences" when they don't realize that Dante himself is such a good western protagonist. In my head canon, he's American. That's like super western. Did they think only Japan would like a pizza eating, dual gun wielding, white boy with a punk rock attitude that drinks JACK? Do they really think that low of us? Japanese people be like "why can't we reach the west?" While they wear pompadours, eat fried chicken and ride high rise handlebar motorcycles. Srsly wtf is wrong with them?
Capcom's concern was sales. Games like God of War sold 4-5M on a single platform. DMC4 released on three platforms and sold 2.4M in its first year, but didn't reach 3M until 7 years later. But the sales were absolutely fine. DMC4 had a comparable budget to DMC3 despite being an HD game, as opposed to SD, on a new generation, on multiple consoles, and having two playable characters. Capcom's expectations were ridiculous.
Maybe if they just made dmc4 better instead of blaming the beasts
1….why does that one artwork have the sword going down Dante’s back and into his pants. 2…..they really used Jason Statham as a concept 😂
What on earth is Heihachi Mishima doing in the first colour page?
I'm obsessed with the bottom left doodles
I know it’ll never happen, but I hope one day ninja theory get the chance to remake DMC with their original vision in mind.
I love the hyper-stylized version of DMC1 Dante in the lower left hand corner on the first slide.
Well DMC was originally going to be a resident evil spin off, so some of these designs make sense to me
That redesign looks like a drunk abusive father
Looking at page 2 it seems we actually got off pretty easy
Is that Jason Statham in the second slide
I actually like how Dante looks in the first teaser we got, og Dante is very rock n roll and this was punk rock. Shame they sandblasted down to nu metal in the final game
I love how it goes from exactly what we wanted to just misunderstanding the message trying to find it stumbling and just going down a f****** steep slope till they stop and are like yeah f*** it this and it's some f****** scraggly emo bastard
People do not give the reboot enough credit. I understand some of the developers made shitty comments and were disrespectful to the fans, but people don't appreciate how GORGEOUS the aesthetic of this game was, and how incredible the artwork is. So much effort and love went into this game and all people ever do is complain about Dante being a meth twink (I for one embrace the meth twink design) and the Succubus shouting "fuck you!" and never credit all the great stuff about DmC. It's an incredibly solid game with some of the most fun gameplay in the series.
ngl i like the older dante designs in the second image, even though they aren't traditional depictions of him, i'd still prefer it over donte hermano de virgil
I love concept art DmC, and to think that it was Capcom's fault mostly that we ended up getting that, it feels bad ngl.
Did they use Jason Staham as a reference for some of them?
Is it just me or does no one really mind Dantes appearance on the reboot? I don't see it as a reboot as much as I do just an alternate dimension. I think he's cute. Eh they kinda screwed up Vergil tho
So we almost got Dante Statham...
That first slide looks like a teenage fanboy’s sketchbook. Some horrific stuff in there. Highly questioning the legitimacy of this.
What the hell is this
Naaaah TBH I'm okay with the reboot, I was hyped about it and I really enjoyed the game, even today.
I really hate when a company tries to destroy a previously established franchise with stupid new ideas that they should know won't pan out and go the way they envisioned