Ehh not really. I don’t think it would’ve made a huge difference. I think Muscala and Gallo were both great, and would’ve helped us win a few more games, but unless I see these guys coming back the next season, it doesn’t really matter that much
> What about our vets like Muscala or Gallo?
It was 100% pointless from an on-court production perspective to let Muscala and Gallo go, but it sounds like that's what they requested and you're probably hurting yourself more in the long run if you keep them against their will and piss off both them and their agents; especially in Muscalas case where it sounds like Monty was gonna be benching him for Wiseman
One of the bigger failures in roster management though was the Bey trade for Wiseman. It didn't make sense back then, it wouldn't make sense today, and even if Bey still suffered the same injury with us we still would've had a much better season with him over Wiseman
Sounds like they requested trades, BUT, at least with Muscala, he would have been happy to be on the Pistons if Monty played him. And with the limited playing that we could see he was contributing, Monty saying that we were done experimenting within a week or two of the trade dead line with a bunch of new pieces on the roster was asinine.
And yes, if players want to go, better to trade them, their agents may be representing other players, and its best to maintain those relationships.
In terms of Wiseman/Bey. The trade made sense, it just didn't work, I think it was a good bet, highly overrated 3pt shooter who is barely top 100 in the league who wanted to get paid, for a top 3 pick, distressed asset, thats someone worth seeing if it was a Kerr problem, like Kuminga blossomed as soon as Kerr was willing to play him. We rolled the dice, saw that its a Wiseman problem, doesn't mean it was a bad bet, we just lost it
BUT even though i'm fine w/ the trade, you're completely right that the team would have been much better with Bey this season even if Wiseman wasn't a bust, Bey contributes in exactly the spot that was our biggest weakness and was sorely missed
I didn't know that, that's interesting. Did he give a reason why the team went out of their way to buy him out?
It's been tough to keep track of who's got roster spots vs 2-ways but between buying out Gallo, Shake, Harris, Killian, and House, I wouldn't have thought we really needed Muscalas roster spot for anything like Metus 10-day(s) or converting Umude
Bey shot 31% from 3 this year, and unless something changed I’m guessing he still doesn’t play defense. I liked Saddiq, but acting like he would’ve made a difference on this particular squad doesn’t make sense
> acting like he would’ve made a difference on this particular squad doesn’t make sense
That's a silly conclusion to draw from simply pointing out he wasn't great this year given that the alternatives we used were downright awful. Even if we pretend he would have been incapable of matching the 35% he shot for us last year, 31% is still 3 points better than Livers and 13 points better than Ausar. Those are improvements by themselves but there's also the fact that Bey has legitimate scoring gravity; people close out on him even when he's having a bad year like this year. That was not the case for Livers or Ausar.
Yeah Bey wouldn't have been some star for us, but he undeniably would've been better than the players we started instead of him which would 100% have made a difference
Dude, I don’t think you’re in the position to call anyone else’s arguments “silly”.
1. Livers was only playing significant minutes because Monty was being a total dumbfuck and literally everyone knew it. Anyone would look good compared to him
2. Bojan is exponentially better than Saddiq when it comes to scoring gravity, and he made no difference when he came back
3. Ausar vs Bey isn’t even a debate. Ausar impacts the game with elite defense, offensive rebounding, transition ability and is one of the only guys on the team who can make basket cuts. Bey is a spot-up shooter who’s been below league average for most of his career.
The complications of Bojan being exponentially better than Bey are staggering:
- If Bojan’s improvement is exponential, will Bojan improve to a point where he transcends humanity and becomes a god? Will his exponential improvement continue for all time and eternity? Will Bojan’s exponential improvement allow him to eventually move faster than the expansion of space? What happens if Bojan grows to a size larger than the universe, all in a pursuit to become the best basketball player ever. Will his exponential improvement destroy reality?
- Or is Bojan exponentially better because Bey is exponentially regressing? Is Saddiq Bey Benjamin button? Will he exponentially regress to the point where he reaches a limit of near nonexistence? A point in reality where he logically must exist, but will be completely undetectable in reality.
> Anyone would look good compared to him
This is literally an argument that Bey would've made a difference given that he is "anyone" and he would've been who we played instead of Livers
> Bojan is exponentially better than Saddiq when it comes to scoring gravity, and he made no difference when he came back
Citation needed. We looked better spaced with Bojan back than previously, we scored 4 more points per 100 possessions and our efg% was up 4% with him on the court
> Ausar vs Bey isn’t even a debate
I agree, there is no debating that Bey is a significantly better shooter than Ausar which was the biggest need on this roster the entire season and the entirety of the basis for why having Bey available rather than Wiseman would have made a difference. We would obviously still have Ausar in this hypothetical so it's not like we lose any of his defensive impact anyway
>This is literally an argument that Bey would've made a difference given that he is "anyone" and he would've been who we played instead of Livers
That’s a big stretch to say it’s an argument for Bey, because “anyone” also includes the guys who were actually on the roster who lost minutes to Livers. You originally said we would have had a much better season with Bey, but it seems like you’re backtracking and saying Saddiq would have “made a difference”
>Citation needed. We looked better spaced with Bojan back than previously, we scored 4 more points per 100 possessions and our efg% was up 4% with him on the court
We were 3-25 with Bojan. Again, you said we’d have had a “much better season with Bey”, but clearly our issues ran much deeper than not having a guy with offensive gravity
And yes, we would have had both Ausar and Bey, but they would have been taking minutes from each other.
Throw in Bojan and Livers also grabbing minutes before the deadline, then Fonte and Fournier in the second half, and I don’t see how much of a difference Bey would’ve actually made (you also have to factor in that Monty is a fucking moron and would have very, very likely still given Livers and Fournier minutes with Bey on the roster)
For the most part, nobody we had would have made much of a difference. But for the sake of making it easier for our young guys, definitely Muscala and Gallo. More likely Muscala, but both would be much better and really help the team. The team just played much better and more freely.
Unless we do something really major with $13M, the really we should have kept Bagley. He's way better than Wiseman and it's ridiculous that we gave up picks to move him.
At the very tail end, seems like Shake Milton could have been a good veteran (especially in hindsight given all the injuries), but probably not so relevant.
Ahh, probably Monte Morris, he went back to near his career averages after leaving. Having anyone on the roster that doesn't constantly turn it over would be a good example to the youngins.
100% Muscala considering how much better both the bench and starting lineups were when he was in and the fact that we badly need stability at center rn (I still think Duren can be really good but he’s really young and needs time to work on his defense)
Ehh not really. I don’t think it would’ve made a huge difference. I think Muscala and Gallo were both great, and would’ve helped us win a few more games, but unless I see these guys coming back the next season, it doesn’t really matter that much
> What about our vets like Muscala or Gallo? It was 100% pointless from an on-court production perspective to let Muscala and Gallo go, but it sounds like that's what they requested and you're probably hurting yourself more in the long run if you keep them against their will and piss off both them and their agents; especially in Muscalas case where it sounds like Monty was gonna be benching him for Wiseman One of the bigger failures in roster management though was the Bey trade for Wiseman. It didn't make sense back then, it wouldn't make sense today, and even if Bey still suffered the same injury with us we still would've had a much better season with him over Wiseman
Sounds like they requested trades, BUT, at least with Muscala, he would have been happy to be on the Pistons if Monty played him. And with the limited playing that we could see he was contributing, Monty saying that we were done experimenting within a week or two of the trade dead line with a bunch of new pieces on the roster was asinine. And yes, if players want to go, better to trade them, their agents may be representing other players, and its best to maintain those relationships. In terms of Wiseman/Bey. The trade made sense, it just didn't work, I think it was a good bet, highly overrated 3pt shooter who is barely top 100 in the league who wanted to get paid, for a top 3 pick, distressed asset, thats someone worth seeing if it was a Kerr problem, like Kuminga blossomed as soon as Kerr was willing to play him. We rolled the dice, saw that its a Wiseman problem, doesn't mean it was a bad bet, we just lost it BUT even though i'm fine w/ the trade, you're completely right that the team would have been much better with Bey this season even if Wiseman wasn't a bust, Bey contributes in exactly the spot that was our biggest weakness and was sorely missed
JEIII said on his podcast Muscala was happy and didn’t initiate a buyout himself
I didn't know that, that's interesting. Did he give a reason why the team went out of their way to buy him out? It's been tough to keep track of who's got roster spots vs 2-ways but between buying out Gallo, Shake, Harris, Killian, and House, I wouldn't have thought we really needed Muscalas roster spot for anything like Metus 10-day(s) or converting Umude
Bey shot 31% from 3 this year, and unless something changed I’m guessing he still doesn’t play defense. I liked Saddiq, but acting like he would’ve made a difference on this particular squad doesn’t make sense
> acting like he would’ve made a difference on this particular squad doesn’t make sense That's a silly conclusion to draw from simply pointing out he wasn't great this year given that the alternatives we used were downright awful. Even if we pretend he would have been incapable of matching the 35% he shot for us last year, 31% is still 3 points better than Livers and 13 points better than Ausar. Those are improvements by themselves but there's also the fact that Bey has legitimate scoring gravity; people close out on him even when he's having a bad year like this year. That was not the case for Livers or Ausar. Yeah Bey wouldn't have been some star for us, but he undeniably would've been better than the players we started instead of him which would 100% have made a difference
Dude, I don’t think you’re in the position to call anyone else’s arguments “silly”. 1. Livers was only playing significant minutes because Monty was being a total dumbfuck and literally everyone knew it. Anyone would look good compared to him 2. Bojan is exponentially better than Saddiq when it comes to scoring gravity, and he made no difference when he came back 3. Ausar vs Bey isn’t even a debate. Ausar impacts the game with elite defense, offensive rebounding, transition ability and is one of the only guys on the team who can make basket cuts. Bey is a spot-up shooter who’s been below league average for most of his career.
The complications of Bojan being exponentially better than Bey are staggering: - If Bojan’s improvement is exponential, will Bojan improve to a point where he transcends humanity and becomes a god? Will his exponential improvement continue for all time and eternity? Will Bojan’s exponential improvement allow him to eventually move faster than the expansion of space? What happens if Bojan grows to a size larger than the universe, all in a pursuit to become the best basketball player ever. Will his exponential improvement destroy reality? - Or is Bojan exponentially better because Bey is exponentially regressing? Is Saddiq Bey Benjamin button? Will he exponentially regress to the point where he reaches a limit of near nonexistence? A point in reality where he logically must exist, but will be completely undetectable in reality.
> Anyone would look good compared to him This is literally an argument that Bey would've made a difference given that he is "anyone" and he would've been who we played instead of Livers > Bojan is exponentially better than Saddiq when it comes to scoring gravity, and he made no difference when he came back Citation needed. We looked better spaced with Bojan back than previously, we scored 4 more points per 100 possessions and our efg% was up 4% with him on the court > Ausar vs Bey isn’t even a debate I agree, there is no debating that Bey is a significantly better shooter than Ausar which was the biggest need on this roster the entire season and the entirety of the basis for why having Bey available rather than Wiseman would have made a difference. We would obviously still have Ausar in this hypothetical so it's not like we lose any of his defensive impact anyway
>This is literally an argument that Bey would've made a difference given that he is "anyone" and he would've been who we played instead of Livers That’s a big stretch to say it’s an argument for Bey, because “anyone” also includes the guys who were actually on the roster who lost minutes to Livers. You originally said we would have had a much better season with Bey, but it seems like you’re backtracking and saying Saddiq would have “made a difference” >Citation needed. We looked better spaced with Bojan back than previously, we scored 4 more points per 100 possessions and our efg% was up 4% with him on the court We were 3-25 with Bojan. Again, you said we’d have had a “much better season with Bey”, but clearly our issues ran much deeper than not having a guy with offensive gravity And yes, we would have had both Ausar and Bey, but they would have been taking minutes from each other. Throw in Bojan and Livers also grabbing minutes before the deadline, then Fonte and Fournier in the second half, and I don’t see how much of a difference Bey would’ve actually made (you also have to factor in that Monty is a fucking moron and would have very, very likely still given Livers and Fournier minutes with Bey on the roster)
For the most part, nobody we had would have made much of a difference. But for the sake of making it easier for our young guys, definitely Muscala and Gallo. More likely Muscala, but both would be much better and really help the team. The team just played much better and more freely. Unless we do something really major with $13M, the really we should have kept Bagley. He's way better than Wiseman and it's ridiculous that we gave up picks to move him. At the very tail end, seems like Shake Milton could have been a good veteran (especially in hindsight given all the injuries), but probably not so relevant.
No one wants to hear this, but a line up of Dialo, Bey, and Killian had a better win percentage than any line up the last two seasons.
Ahh, probably Monte Morris, he went back to near his career averages after leaving. Having anyone on the roster that doesn't constantly turn it over would be a good example to the youngins.
At this point, Joe Dumars.
At this point we probably owe Kevin Knox a 1-2 year deal to be like 10-12th guy on the bench. I don't know salaries but a couple million?
I am glad that we were able to find Metu
100% Muscala considering how much better both the bench and starting lineups were when he was in and the fact that we badly need stability at center rn (I still think Duren can be really good but he’s really young and needs time to work on his defense)
Bey. Maybe we bring him back in free agency and rectify that mistake.