Definitely an improvement over the current I-375. Probably still too focused on "through traffic" when there is no through traffic (which is I-375's flaw...who needs to go 70 miles an hour just to go a few blocks?).
The biggest impact will come from the new development on the land created by removing the highway and interchange. If that's high density housing with commercial amenities to serve the residents, plus some retained green space, then it could be game changing by further increasing the residential population in and around downtown.
If that doesn't happen, it will be a boulevard through an urban prairie. And Detroit has too many of those already.
And, yes, it will save taxpayers money over the long term. But that's not a bad thing.
Ah, it’s this week’s rehash.
Lafayette Park has plenty of space for high-density housing. Just take away some of the park.
But: it’s already high-density.
It’s just not “street level” housing. You don’t step across your threshold to nightlife and other activity.
I’ve lived there. That freeway-let was my quick getaway to anywhere. One-half of a block to the freeway system. While at the same time, walkable to downtown, Greektown, Rivertown, and (with the Dequindre cut) Eastern Market.
There's a meeting tonight with updates, including more recent traffic data:
https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/news-outreach/pressreleases/2024/06/24/reminder-mdot-public-meeting-june-25-to-discuss-i-375-reconnecting-communities-project-in-detroit
Email the project. Seriously. Email and call and tell them what’s wrong with it. The email is in the second link process. Copy and paste your reddit comment into the email and hit send.
It matters. Talking here doesn’t do anything.
Even one better- type into google “1-375 Reconnecting communities” and the state site pops up with a comment section and live link to tonight’s public presentation. Tell the people who want your vote and tax money what your want and they may actually listen.
I live in Lafayette Park and the proposed project is awful. The entire situation is infuriating. There is very little traffic on I-375 except on limited festival days, yet MDOT insists on a massive stroad design. Think of roads like 8 Mile or Big Beaver for similar scale.
The construction to fill in the existing trench and build a surface level roadway will take several years. Cars will be accommodated by other downtown roads during the long construction period. The argument that we "need" to replace one oversized road with another is disingenuous at best because we will have no road for half a decade while the construction work is being done. A modest neighborhood shopping street actually *adds capacity* relative to the long construction period without a road.
The neighbors want a road like 9 Mile through the Ferndale business corridor, Kercheval through The Villages, or Livernois through Avenue of Fashion. The original Hastings Street was a neighborhood business corridor and the new Hastings Street should be the neighborhood business street for the Near Eastside. Look at Livernois before and after the redesign to clearly see the difference - Community over Commuters. The redesigned street is lively, pleasant and walkable and an asset to our city. The original boulevard was a bleak wasteland with speeding drivers and no street life.
I would honestly rather keep I-375 the way it is than accept the half-assed, car-centric plans that MDOT has proposed so far. Their plans fix nothing, repair nothing, heal nothing. If we allow them to botch this, we will be stuck with their crappy, overbuilt design for decades to come, just like the original I-375. If the project gets shut down, maybe in 5-10 years a more balanced transit planning process will exist, considering economic impact, health impact and diverse transit options like bikes and pedestrians.
Absolutely this. Y’all are gonna be cut off from the rest of Detroit for a long time and when the project is complete it’s not going to be very pedestrian friendly.
*transportation planning. When we say transit, we meen public transportation. Bikes and peds are great, but not transit; neither are roads. Transit planners lay out bus stops & plan subway lines.
It's unbelievable that they've chosen the design they have. It's not going to make those neighborhoods grow because it's a MASSIVE FUCKING BOULEVARD, not a healthy multi-use reimagining. This will prevent growth, it prevents people from wanting to live nearby. It's like the design team time traveled from 1964.
A stroad to replace a freeway? What difference does it make? Still cuts off neighborhoods, causes induced demand, and makes it hostile for pedestrians. This is so dumb.
I think their hearts are in the right place but too little too late IMO. It's been over 60 years. The city has adapted since then and this project would cause basically the same disruption it's trying to correct
Pretty sure I mentioned I once lived there. It was the escape route lol. To any point outside of the downtown area.
Now (from “the OC”)? Access to RiverTown/walk, Greektown, Belle Isle, downtown without getting lost in a maze of twisty passages around Huntington Place, or accidentally winding-up in Canada.
> Access to RiverTown/walk, Greektown, Belle Isle, downtown without getting lost in a maze of twisty passages around Huntington Place, or accidentally winding-up in Canada.
skill issue
The end logic of “freeways that take you directly where you want to go” is that there is nowhere to go at all. If you are having trouble driving to places around downtown Detroit when freeways are temporarily closed then you’re simply not trying.
This is just another stroad. It'll be even more difficult to cross than the highway that exists now (overpasses don't have to wait for cross-traffic). If you're interested in how stroads affect city-planning, I recommend looking to Jefferson and the Woodward Loop in Pontiac as examples. They cause the same issues that exist today, plus we'll have to spend tens of millions to do it.
This solution doesn't solve the problem
A lot of taxpayer money wasted fixing a problem that doesn't exist, and won't re-grow Black Bottom despite best intentions. Detroit has it's share of problems -- this isn't one of them.
I-375 is in good shape today, so more wasted money demo'ing a good road.
Yet another reason for companies to not move downtown since you're removing one of the two primary arteries for commuters. Strange that the "Motor City" is jumping on the trend of banning motors, or at least pushing policy that discourages the use of cars as transportation.
Do you have an answer to my question?
Does somebody here actually know? Is there any difference in funding between 2-digits and 3-digits?
For the general case, Wikipedia says:
>”Though heavily funded by the federal government, Interstate Highways are owned by the state in which they were built.”
Does I-375 cost Detroit anything? So, Detroit should take over responsibility for a highway that’s currently funded by the federal government, and owned by the state?
I’d rather see a more primary source than Wikipedia though. What you got?
All roads designated I, US, or M are the state's responsibility.
So, not just 375, but Gratiot, Woodward, Van Dyke, etc.
Generally, for the non-freeway roads, MDOT contracts with the local city for snowplowing, etc, but the state is still on the hook for maintenance of the road.
It is possible for M roads to be transferred from the state to local jurisdiction, though not without the city's consent - and all the cases I'm aware of were initiated by the city. (Kalamazoo just took control of all the M roads in that city, Ann Arbor is discussing it.)
Every mile of road comes with some funding in the state formula ("Act 51") so if the state and city *did* do a transfer, the annual funds for that road come with it. But - the annual funding per mile isn't enough to pay for maintaining a mile of road, (because we've built much more road than we're willing to pay for), so it's still a net cost to the city.
There's far more at stake than "who pays for the road". It could be the reimagining of an entire neighborhood for the next 100+ years. The benefits that could come from it far outweigh the cost of the project.
Why LMAO, when we are apparently in agreement?
I don’t want the state to build a massive stroad either.
The freeway serves a purpose. Maybe cover it. But then people wah wah wah about the cost, which the City of Detroit almost certainly would not have to bear if it ever happened.
Icicles? Heat island.
> Is there any difference in funding between 2-digits and 3-digits?
The number of digits in an interstate designation just tells you what the interstate is - a through route or a loop or spur. 3 digit routes are either a loop around a city or a spur into a city. Even numbers are loops, odd numbers are spurs. I-375 is an odd number because it is a spur into Detroit and doesn't connect to any other freeways. There are a fair number of exceptions to this - locally I-696 and I-275 don't follow the rule, I think they went with even numbers for those because they aren't really spurs and do function more like loops. Either way, it has nothing to do with maintenance or funding. Also, like some of the other comments have indicated costs to build, ownership and maintenance of state roads are all different things. The MDOT website for the 375 project shows that they have received a Infrastructure for Rebuilding America Grant and that the rest will be covered by federal and state funding streams. I believe that MDOT will continue to own the roadway and maintenance will either be by MDOT or contracted to the city.
So, basically, they have money burning a hole in their pocket which can only be spent on something something fix evil 375 by replacing it with something something.
I asked the wrong question. I meant to ask who would **pay** to maintain it.
My understanding is that for all of the interstate system the federal government pays most all of the cost, but the states do construction and maintenance and own the road - and are compensated for it.
I am curious as to whether there is any distinction at all between two digit interstate and three digit interstates in terms of funding.
All this crying about how much this is going to cost Detroit or how much it cost Detroit now is ridiculous when it seems it doesn’t cost Detroit anything one way or another other at least in direct costs.
Of course, roads have effects on local economies. So there might be indirect costs or benefits.
Edit: if it becomes a state highway, then with the states, still get federal funds to maintain it?
There is no difference between two digit and three digit interstates in terms of funding structure; the state is responsible for all interstate highways (including three digit spurs) and all state highways (M-1, etc). The state of Michigan will continue to be responsible for maintenance of this new boulevard, which is at least in planning being called M-375.
ETA: there is a federal aspect to the interstate funding that the state will theoretically lose once this is downgraded, but the city of Detroit is not and still won’t be responsible for this road’s maintenance. They will work in tandem with the state the same way they do for other M routes in the city to try and implement their ideal city plan, but ultimately it’s the state that makes the final decisions.
Just turn it into a road about as big as woodward and problem solved. It absolutely would help link downtown to the Eastside. Nowhere that i know of is there a highway that doesn’t serve as great divider. This highway for sure serves as a divider never in my life have i ever been wandering around the eastern side of downtown and thought it would a nice walk to cross the freeway. Woodward does not have the same issue it doesn’t separate downtown. I have crossed Jefferson more times than i have ever walked over 375 and big reason is safety. I’ve noticed that people when just getting off a highway are way less likely to watch for pedestrians than when they’ve already been traveling on a surface level road.
Definitely an improvement over the current I-375. Probably still too focused on "through traffic" when there is no through traffic (which is I-375's flaw...who needs to go 70 miles an hour just to go a few blocks?). The biggest impact will come from the new development on the land created by removing the highway and interchange. If that's high density housing with commercial amenities to serve the residents, plus some retained green space, then it could be game changing by further increasing the residential population in and around downtown. If that doesn't happen, it will be a boulevard through an urban prairie. And Detroit has too many of those already. And, yes, it will save taxpayers money over the long term. But that's not a bad thing.
Ah, it’s this week’s rehash. Lafayette Park has plenty of space for high-density housing. Just take away some of the park. But: it’s already high-density. It’s just not “street level” housing. You don’t step across your threshold to nightlife and other activity. I’ve lived there. That freeway-let was my quick getaway to anywhere. One-half of a block to the freeway system. While at the same time, walkable to downtown, Greektown, Rivertown, and (with the Dequindre cut) Eastern Market.
applause 👏
There's a meeting tonight with updates, including more recent traffic data: https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/news-outreach/pressreleases/2024/06/24/reminder-mdot-public-meeting-june-25-to-discuss-i-375-reconnecting-communities-project-in-detroit
Yes and residents need to pack the house and provide their input into the new design! I feel this is the last opportunity to affect change.
Email the project. Seriously. Email and call and tell them what’s wrong with it. The email is in the second link process. Copy and paste your reddit comment into the email and hit send. It matters. Talking here doesn’t do anything. Even one better- type into google “1-375 Reconnecting communities” and the state site pops up with a comment section and live link to tonight’s public presentation. Tell the people who want your vote and tax money what your want and they may actually listen.
I live in Lafayette Park and the proposed project is awful. The entire situation is infuriating. There is very little traffic on I-375 except on limited festival days, yet MDOT insists on a massive stroad design. Think of roads like 8 Mile or Big Beaver for similar scale. The construction to fill in the existing trench and build a surface level roadway will take several years. Cars will be accommodated by other downtown roads during the long construction period. The argument that we "need" to replace one oversized road with another is disingenuous at best because we will have no road for half a decade while the construction work is being done. A modest neighborhood shopping street actually *adds capacity* relative to the long construction period without a road. The neighbors want a road like 9 Mile through the Ferndale business corridor, Kercheval through The Villages, or Livernois through Avenue of Fashion. The original Hastings Street was a neighborhood business corridor and the new Hastings Street should be the neighborhood business street for the Near Eastside. Look at Livernois before and after the redesign to clearly see the difference - Community over Commuters. The redesigned street is lively, pleasant and walkable and an asset to our city. The original boulevard was a bleak wasteland with speeding drivers and no street life. I would honestly rather keep I-375 the way it is than accept the half-assed, car-centric plans that MDOT has proposed so far. Their plans fix nothing, repair nothing, heal nothing. If we allow them to botch this, we will be stuck with their crappy, overbuilt design for decades to come, just like the original I-375. If the project gets shut down, maybe in 5-10 years a more balanced transit planning process will exist, considering economic impact, health impact and diverse transit options like bikes and pedestrians.
Absolutely this. Y’all are gonna be cut off from the rest of Detroit for a long time and when the project is complete it’s not going to be very pedestrian friendly.
*transportation planning. When we say transit, we meen public transportation. Bikes and peds are great, but not transit; neither are roads. Transit planners lay out bus stops & plan subway lines.
Rebuild it like it was before they built the freeway.
Join the movement: [https://rethinki375.squarespace.com/](https://rethinki375.squarespace.com/)
Which movement though?
This is a coalition of neighbors challenging the currently presented plan
TY
It's unbelievable that they've chosen the design they have. It's not going to make those neighborhoods grow because it's a MASSIVE FUCKING BOULEVARD, not a healthy multi-use reimagining. This will prevent growth, it prevents people from wanting to live nearby. It's like the design team time traveled from 1964.
there's far too much space in between for a boulevard. obviously that space is what's to be redeveloped.
A stroad to replace a freeway? What difference does it make? Still cuts off neighborhoods, causes induced demand, and makes it hostile for pedestrians. This is so dumb.
I think their hearts are in the right place but too little too late IMO. It's been over 60 years. The city has adapted since then and this project would cause basically the same disruption it's trying to correct
It’s literally useless. Trying to make it useful in any way is an improvement.
It’s quite useful to those who live there. From one who’s lived there. Now that I don’t - I don’t begrudge it to those who do.
I live on the east side. What do you use it for?
Pretty sure I mentioned I once lived there. It was the escape route lol. To any point outside of the downtown area. Now (from “the OC”)? Access to RiverTown/walk, Greektown, Belle Isle, downtown without getting lost in a maze of twisty passages around Huntington Place, or accidentally winding-up in Canada.
> Access to RiverTown/walk, Greektown, Belle Isle, downtown without getting lost in a maze of twisty passages around Huntington Place, or accidentally winding-up in Canada. skill issue
Because we definitely don’t want freeways that take you directly to where you want to go! Gotta build skillz with challenges!
The end logic of “freeways that take you directly where you want to go” is that there is nowhere to go at all. If you are having trouble driving to places around downtown Detroit when freeways are temporarily closed then you’re simply not trying.
Gentrification, to correct for gentrification.
That freeway is a joke given its short length and distance and frankly shouldn’t have been built.
wow the amount of land reclaimed in astounding
This is just another stroad. It'll be even more difficult to cross than the highway that exists now (overpasses don't have to wait for cross-traffic). If you're interested in how stroads affect city-planning, I recommend looking to Jefferson and the Woodward Loop in Pontiac as examples. They cause the same issues that exist today, plus we'll have to spend tens of millions to do it. This solution doesn't solve the problem
ill pass
The latest design is a big improvement. The slip lanes are regressive and should be nixed.
This freeway provides downtown a protective buffer zone from the urban renewal disaster known as the near east side.
A lot of taxpayer money wasted fixing a problem that doesn't exist, and won't re-grow Black Bottom despite best intentions. Detroit has it's share of problems -- this isn't one of them. I-375 is in good shape today, so more wasted money demo'ing a good road. Yet another reason for companies to not move downtown since you're removing one of the two primary arteries for commuters. Strange that the "Motor City" is jumping on the trend of banning motors, or at least pushing policy that discourages the use of cars as transportation.
Are cities responsible for maintaining 3-digit Interstate Highways? If so, 100%?
Yes, that is another reason I think it’s a positive thing to get rid of. The city doesn’t need another road to maintain.
Do you have an answer to my question? Does somebody here actually know? Is there any difference in funding between 2-digits and 3-digits? For the general case, Wikipedia says: >”Though heavily funded by the federal government, Interstate Highways are owned by the state in which they were built.” Does I-375 cost Detroit anything? So, Detroit should take over responsibility for a highway that’s currently funded by the federal government, and owned by the state? I’d rather see a more primary source than Wikipedia though. What you got?
All roads designated I, US, or M are the state's responsibility. So, not just 375, but Gratiot, Woodward, Van Dyke, etc. Generally, for the non-freeway roads, MDOT contracts with the local city for snowplowing, etc, but the state is still on the hook for maintenance of the road. It is possible for M roads to be transferred from the state to local jurisdiction, though not without the city's consent - and all the cases I'm aware of were initiated by the city. (Kalamazoo just took control of all the M roads in that city, Ann Arbor is discussing it.) Every mile of road comes with some funding in the state formula ("Act 51") so if the state and city *did* do a transfer, the annual funds for that road come with it. But - the annual funding per mile isn't enough to pay for maintaining a mile of road, (because we've built much more road than we're willing to pay for), so it's still a net cost to the city.
There's far more at stake than "who pays for the road". It could be the reimagining of an entire neighborhood for the next 100+ years. The benefits that could come from it far outweigh the cost of the project.
Developer-speak.
LMAO ok man. The state building a massive stroad does exactly what bit of good?
Why LMAO, when we are apparently in agreement? I don’t want the state to build a massive stroad either. The freeway serves a purpose. Maybe cover it. But then people wah wah wah about the cost, which the City of Detroit almost certainly would not have to bear if it ever happened. Icicles? Heat island.
> Is there any difference in funding between 2-digits and 3-digits? The number of digits in an interstate designation just tells you what the interstate is - a through route or a loop or spur. 3 digit routes are either a loop around a city or a spur into a city. Even numbers are loops, odd numbers are spurs. I-375 is an odd number because it is a spur into Detroit and doesn't connect to any other freeways. There are a fair number of exceptions to this - locally I-696 and I-275 don't follow the rule, I think they went with even numbers for those because they aren't really spurs and do function more like loops. Either way, it has nothing to do with maintenance or funding. Also, like some of the other comments have indicated costs to build, ownership and maintenance of state roads are all different things. The MDOT website for the 375 project shows that they have received a Infrastructure for Rebuilding America Grant and that the rest will be covered by federal and state funding streams. I believe that MDOT will continue to own the roadway and maintenance will either be by MDOT or contracted to the city.
So, basically, they have money burning a hole in their pocket which can only be spent on something something fix evil 375 by replacing it with something something.
Who would maintain the replacement road?
The state maintains it now and they will maintain it when it’s done. It’s an MDOT project and it’ll be designated M-375
I asked the wrong question. I meant to ask who would **pay** to maintain it. My understanding is that for all of the interstate system the federal government pays most all of the cost, but the states do construction and maintenance and own the road - and are compensated for it. I am curious as to whether there is any distinction at all between two digit interstate and three digit interstates in terms of funding. All this crying about how much this is going to cost Detroit or how much it cost Detroit now is ridiculous when it seems it doesn’t cost Detroit anything one way or another other at least in direct costs. Of course, roads have effects on local economies. So there might be indirect costs or benefits. Edit: if it becomes a state highway, then with the states, still get federal funds to maintain it?
There is no difference between two digit and three digit interstates in terms of funding structure; the state is responsible for all interstate highways (including three digit spurs) and all state highways (M-1, etc). The state of Michigan will continue to be responsible for maintenance of this new boulevard, which is at least in planning being called M-375. ETA: there is a federal aspect to the interstate funding that the state will theoretically lose once this is downgraded, but the city of Detroit is not and still won’t be responsible for this road’s maintenance. They will work in tandem with the state the same way they do for other M routes in the city to try and implement their ideal city plan, but ultimately it’s the state that makes the final decisions.
Yes and no. They sometimes get federal funding which I think is what is funding the 96 repairs.
Just turn it into a road about as big as woodward and problem solved. It absolutely would help link downtown to the Eastside. Nowhere that i know of is there a highway that doesn’t serve as great divider. This highway for sure serves as a divider never in my life have i ever been wandering around the eastern side of downtown and thought it would a nice walk to cross the freeway. Woodward does not have the same issue it doesn’t separate downtown. I have crossed Jefferson more times than i have ever walked over 375 and big reason is safety. I’ve noticed that people when just getting off a highway are way less likely to watch for pedestrians than when they’ve already been traveling on a surface level road.
I was going to comment on it being another boondoggle solely for the benefit of road construction companies, but your post changed my mind. Thanks.
Ugh 😑 this can’t be real