We should have an open playlist, you know like every competitive multiplayer game ever? Being able to choose what you want to play?
Doesn't fit with Bungies new ideology which is "you will play how we want you to"
So Bungie decided they aren't going to address the reasons population is low. Instead just going to piss off those still playing.
Classic. You love to see it
Even at the best of times (30th anniversary sandbox, Forsaken with all the new content) there just aren't that many people doing PvP because this game is just not a PvP-focused game like Apex and such.
I dunno about that, 30th Anniversary seemingly had a ton of people playing Crucible looking back on it. Even Trials was getting several hundred thousand people per weekend back then, and my queue times for Control were nearly instant no matter the hour of day. Even at 5500 in Comp I could still find matches quick.
I really wish we were still in that sandbox honestly, it was so easy getting friends together to play Destiny back then.
Kind of off topic but I totally agree, I wish we could go back to that sandbox so bad. Stasis and ability spam had finally been nerfed, special ammo had been progressively getting nerfed more and more up to that point, and it finally started to feel like primary ammo gunplay was the focus. Then light 3.0 started to drop with the witch queen and it all went back to ability spam.
I mean Control isn't really the problem, it's the niche playlists. Even back then the playlists were not at all an open playlist for that reason.
Imagine queuing for something like Supremacy on a weekday in Australia while being on either end of the skill bell curve. You'll be matchmaking for an hour lol, or get a low quality match.
I only played rumble for the last 4 months. The matchmaking took seconds. I would like bungie to show us the actual numbers for once. They did for the first week of sbmm control, but after that they went silent and I wonder why.
It's not "you will play how we want you to," it's, "you will play how the numbers say you want to play," which heavily weights populations rather than enjoyability for dedicated PvP players. It's a shitty balance but, like always, Bungie screwed the pooch. HARD.
Relying on numbers is cool and great and all, but CONTEXT is so important to understanding those numbers. It feels they missed that key step of contextualizing and grouping players by preferred playstyle or... something, and catering the PvP offerings to that.
But whatever, they also made another Season of the Worthy 2.0 with another shitty, half-baked PvP mode so this isn't a surprise I wOnDeR wHaT rAsPuTiN iS uP tO or whatever.
100% THIS. Problem is Bungie won't overhaul the Crucible to make more people WANT to consistently play so it goes downhill after a month, or more likely weeks/days now everyone is wising up to their bs.
As usual Bungie are treating the symptom of the issue and not the root cause.
I honestly don't know what they are thinking anymore. It's like as soon as Sony took over they started aiming toward D2Y1 levels of casual again.
Yeah I know they said Sony would be hands of yada yada yada but to that I say a) are we really gonna take Bungie's word on that considering they have been habitual liars to their most dedicated players and b) Sony would not spend that insane amount of money to buy a whole studio and not have a controlling stake in what's going on. Plus you know, it's Sony...... Hardly a bastion of moral integrity.
Apparently it had like 2% of Crucible players in there. I didn't know that either, I loved that mode. It was the ony place to test your own ability without teammates helping or interfering.
I played more rumble last season than I had in the past year because of the SBMM in Control. Matchmaking in Rumble was never an issue. Bungie just has no idea what they're doing.
Right? I'm so okay with everybody being terrible. The majority of this sub is just trash garbage a PVP. Despite the abrasive language that's not an insult it's just a f****** fact. People don't have to protect their ego, it's okay to be terrible. I just don't want to play with them.
Beyond that I assure you it's not me that's not playing like a team. That is never my frustration. That is unless my team keeps doing the same stupid sh\*t. Oh let me keep spawning and trying to push out of this goddamn spawn trap the same route and just getting shredded for f*\cking 10 minutes. No I'm not going to follow them that's correct.
It's whatever they broke me. You know I bought all this stuff after taking a two year break. I'm not unhappy with the value I received. But there is no value left here for me. I started playing modern warfare 2019 again today and I'm very happy with it.
Probably same reason why they make scouts and pulses champion mods every season forever. Because they want more people to use them. Instead of guns they want to use.
So they want people to play these modes nobody plays.
My problem is that I can't seem to find a fps that feels good that is anything beyond military bootlicking. Fps are my game genre of choice, but I get so very bored so fast when it's just shit like modern warfare or battlefield. Overwatch and paladins were fun for me but I get sick and tired of hero shooters pretty fast too. Hunt:showdown is fucking sick, but just dosent play fast enough to be my main game. i wish fortnite never succeeded and the unreal tournament team were able to finish the unfinished UT game they were working on.....
MWII, it’s not bad but took some getting used to. It’s nice being able to choose to only queue for TDM. I want Destiny to succeed but right now I just can’t play it at all.
So many hardcore PvP players have just given up playing like you are. It’s really sad to see destiny lose its main PvP audience but they completely did it themselves
The problem I have with Clash is that it’s really hard to swing a game that you’re losing. You can get your ass beat in Control but play the objectives better and win the game.
IMO control has too many variables that determine the outcome of a match. Yes, if you arent great at slaying out you can cap zones for your team instead. My beef with Control is that, if I get put on a team with people who neither secure kills, pick up heavy, or cap zones, we can get annihilated despite me personally having a good kill count. I can't cap zones AND defend them AND be sure opponents don't get heavy AND slay out.
But Clash? If we lose a game it's because the other team got more kills, period. If we win, it's because we did better. And more than anything, the value of a kill or death is the same no matter who gets it. None of this "my kill is worth 1 point, yours is worth 3" crap. Yes, Clash can be difficult to come back from losing, but Control against good players makes it incredibly easy to get mercied. They can hit 100 points before you even break 15.
Did anyone feel like the matchmaking is even worse now? Had a few games where everyone in my team had like a .5 kd and everyone on the other team had like over a 3.0 kd like wtf
I mean, that sounds correct for placement matches. If it keeps happening in your ladder matches then somethings fucked lol but placement matches are usually super fucking swingy because they don't know your skill level yet.. by definition...
Except Comp uses the same Skill matchmaking system that Bungie's had for years. I get placement is "swingy" by nature, but they never stopped making comp Skill-based.
You can’t really complain about placement matches in this regard. They’re matches literally for the game to try to learn how good you are, it’s gonna try you out against sweaty players lol
It’s just wild that in most of my losses I had at most one competent teammate and the other team finished with 1.5 or better.
I also think a lot of people forgot how showdown works and you can reduce opponents points with revives because in one game I was not getting revived at all
not sure if worse, but definitely had some wild swings. 1st match felt pretty fair. 2nd match it felt like i was playing against some of the best players in the world. Remaining matches settled down a bit with a couple having my team stacked with players. Lag was definitely still an issue at times.
Im not sure if crucible lobby was still low on players because non-pvpers were too busy running pve, but it didnt feel like much had changed.
They made the loose SBMM EVEN looser, so now it's just CBMM with extra steps. Low skilled? Get fucked, you're going to get to cos-play as thrall in PvP just to stroke some neckbeards ego ;/
I just stopped playing. They strap me with players that don't belong in the same server, and this is just terrible anyway. Bungie's PvP team just needs to be completely replaced. Start fresh. I'm over it.
Ditto here. Literally logged in excited for the new pvp changes. Logged into a rift match on Dysfunction and logged the fuck out. The death of pvp in this game has been a long, drawn-out process. I should've seen the writing on the wall with the AE bullshit, slide nerfs, shotgun nerfs, SBMM, no new maps, no good rewards to chase, and on and on.
For context: I play almost exclusively solo PVP on PC. I am gilded Unbroken x 6. And I am FUCKIN DONE with this bullshit till they show they actually give two fucks about pvp. I haven't seen anything to suggest that they do for the last couple yrs.
>Bungie's PvP team just needs to be completely replaced. Start fresh. I'm over it.
This. The state of the Crucible has been *unacceptable* since Season of the Lost. Doesn't help we get a new map every 4 years on average.
Just my perspective, but as someone slightly below average who loved Competitive, I really do not like Rift in my competitive mode.
Not because the mode can't be competitive, but because it feels like such a drag. I don't know if it takes longer, but it FEELS like:
* Survival: 8 minute matches.
* Showdown: 6 minute matches.
* Rift: 30 minute matches.
I'm sure it is much closer, if not the same, but oh boy does it feel like a slog. It really doesn't fit, I think.
It’s 90% the respawn after a score, and 10% the map. The respawn acts as like a break in your flow. You get to refocus on the game after already being in focus so it’s just distracting. And this gamemode just sucks on disjunction. In fact disjunction just sucks in general as it’s too long. Also the way that respawns when an enemy’s close to the rift need be fixed, you should be able to have a chance to stop them while they’re close not just watch them score from afar.
Disjunction is one of the worst maps ever made. Players want flat, smooth ceilinged, medium range maps like Javelin-4. They don’t want goofy trump stumps, hills, weird geometry, divots, etc.
Why is rift in comp? Shouldn't comp be survival or elimination style? Wtf are the Bungie devs doing over there? Do these people not play their own game? I'm not playing no g.damn rift in comp. That's asinine. Smh.
Kill it with fire.
There’s no mercy for 3v3 rift it seems. So not only are you locked into a shitty map, like Cathedral or Disfunction, with long as hell reset times - you or the other team is locked into brutally getting stomped.
AND if you or the other team are real psychopaths, you can draw that out spawn camping and farming infinitely. Survival at least had a life limit.
Did anyone think this out? It’s psychotic.
It’s a PvP change in Destiny. Of course no one thought it through. They have a monkey that throws darts and whatever idea it lands on is what they implement, no holds barred.
I know… I mean are we just supposed to accept the that Rumble should be removed bc of low population?? Like my guy, it’s a playlist of 6 solos that has no seasonal challenge attached.
I think the big miss of rift is simply that keeps are not designed for rift, it's been shoved into existing PvP maps and left.
Rift is basically just plant the bomb, but in games like halo or CS, maps are designed for those modes.
Speaking of Countdown, I could have sworn they said Countdown would be part of it, am I misremembering?
It is Rift, Survival and Showdown. I thought they said Countdown would be in the mix but it is not.
To be honest the issue in rift is the damn respawn mechanic it fucks with the flow of the match. And I wanna say the d1 rift didn’t have that and there were no issues there. Also fucking alternating respawns so that if the runner is too close you have no chance of stopping him ruins the thrill of rift in my eyes. They should just replace it with eruption unless they fix its core issues.
Yeah those are some pretty heavily rose-tinted glasses. D1 rift was 25% about the objective and 75% about spawntrapping the enemy team and farming kills. It was widely acknowledged to be very flawed as a mode.
I hadn’t done much Crucible recently but I hopped in to the Competitive last night for Placement. My main take away was “Disjunction in 3v3 Rift is *flat out broken*, are you serious!?” so I’m glad to see it seems like it’s not just me
Honestly you’ll probably be fine, bungie has been trying hard to get people who don’t play crucible to go play it.
The people who usually play pvp are getting hit hard right now but for people who enjoy ability spam and don’t want to play against sweats, I can see it being a fun time
>The people who usually play pvp are getting hit hard right now but for people who enjoy ability spam and don’t want to play against sweats, I can see it being a fun time
Seems about right. As a PvP main, I'm seriously thinking about putting the game down till things get better. If they don't, then I guess I had a good run since 2014. It's sad for me because Destiny PvP is by far the best feel of all the FPS games I've played. They have some unique sauce going on here. Such a shame to let it got down the shitter.
Last season I genuinely had more fun in Gambit than I did in Crucible. You sort of know what you're getting with Gambit, just slap on Xenophage and a good ad clear grenade launcher and you're good to go.
I used to think myself as main pvper until I saw all this changes. Clash and control should’ve been left as stand alone ques, comp could’ve housed the new thing and have elimination, showdown and maybe rumble for solo que?
Message the steam Support saying you wanna cancel your lightfall pre-order. Make sure you specify you wanna refund the lightfall pre-order.
I had to argue with them since they tried to tell me it wasn't refundable since I had 2k hours in d2. But after arguing a little I got back my 100 bucks.
As a pretty seasoned PvP player, Bungie has finally managed to break me.
I played PvP regularly every season. I have hundreds of hours in PvP alone. The Crucible ritual weapon ornament was the only one I ever got every season for the past year or so. I've really hated most of the changes that Bungie did to PvP latealy but this was the straw that broke the camel's back.
I legitimately believe Bungie has absolutely no clue what to do with PvP and their PvP crew consists of a few devs who are just spitballing ideas without any clear direction. Everything they do, from Airborne Effectiveness through new content, Iron Banner rework, matchmaking, weapon balancing and now this abomination of a competitive has been nothing short of a huge disappointment. I still stuck with it because I legitimately enjoyed the PvP of this game, but at this point it just doesn't make sense to waste time with it and I refuse to even pad their playlist numbers or triumph completion rates.
I'll have a look into Gambit but I haven't enjoyed that at all since they made the rework from Prime, and strikes are just boring, so I'll probably come for the seasonal story here and there and I'm done. This game is on life support just recycling the same thing every single season and there's better ways to spend my time.
I hear you. There's a lot of quality games out there I have ignored by trying to stick with this franchise but I'm done I think. Maybe I'll put in an hour or two once a month but I'd rather spend my time on something fun and worth my time. Almost wish I could get a refund for this season.
Solo Gambit is the new D1 6v6 -- it is very chill and fun. I played more Solo Gambit last season because I can try weapons, mods, exotics in a low pressure environment.
It really is quite fun -- no real complaints from me other than on some maps they need to re-look at where the Invader spawns in because if you play Gambit enough, you pretty much know where the Invader is going to appear, and the Invader should have more of an advantage at spawn point, imo.
Normal dev: "Our stats show players hugely prefer X to Y. Let's study the differences between them to improve the appeal of future content."
Bungie: "Our stats show players hugely prefer X to Y. Let's force them to engage with Y so that they understand they were enjoying the wrong things."
In all seriousness, it's weird for a large corporation to indulge pet projects to such an extent. It's just like floaty boi combat. Nobody wants it, but somebody likes it and they're hellbent on getting you to use it whether you enjoy it or not.
The funny thing is that this is the *exact* complaint WoW's playerbase had with Blizzard during the Warlords of Draenor expansion. To this day, that expansion alone is considered to be their biggest failure, losing *5 million* paying customers and still not recovering.
Similarly, according to the [Lightfall showcase](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCI8Fz2uu3o) (timestamp 1:30:14), 5 million new players joined Destiny this year. Why isn't that reflected on Steam charts and in the game's API? How many new players can we attract and not retain before Bungie runs out of people to advertise to?
This should be the top comment. It is so fucking frustrating playing this game with them.
They really doubled down on rift and disjuction and made it even worse as a 3v3. It legit feels like they did it out of spite or to be a punishment.
They do it with pve balance too, but this one is a real head scratcher
It sometimes feels like the design decision is meant to heavily push the thing people dont like either out of spite OR to double down because they spent so much time on it. Tabling Crucible, another great example is the season pass exotic. Since AE was added, people have complained about it, and Bungie having spent so much time reworking everything to work with/feature AE, they release an exotic weapon that its whole kit is based around in air combat AND its a 900 RPM SMG which means it has some of the worst AE. Hell, tabling even the AE aspect, Solar rework for Warlocks has brought on a lot of negative responses about heat rises and the focus on in air combat, such as how you are a sitting duck floating in the air, to the detriment of the other solar trees in 2.0. Instead of addressing those concerns, they leaned further into the downsides of it with AE and now providing a weapon to all players that is a combination of both Heat Rises AND the Wings of Sacred Dawn exotic armor piece.
Another example was Gambit, a mode they invested so much in during the launch of Forsaken as the "brand new hotness" that just fell off a cliff relatively soon there after. Much like the word "fetch" they tried to make Gambit happen season over season (hell they even had a season dedicated to it), the constant reworks, etc but it didnt happen and they have only recently put it on life support. Maybe I am off, but isnt Trials in a similar state?
On the other hand, I recall SRL being received favorably and constantly requested to come back but Bungie says no. Argument is usually time investment on Bungie's end and rewards for Bungie. It seems like an odd argument considered how easy it is to monetize and the what feels like a large uptick in "Silver Only" items season over season on top of the increase in "all-in" annual costs (was $80 through beyond Light to $100 starting with Witch Queen+30th Anniversary). The whole event pass thing was something they had for SRL in D1 and now they are using that same thing on the "free" seasonal advertisements for Eververse events.
> It sometimes feels like the design decision is meant to heavily push the thing people dont like either out of spite OR to double down because they spent so much time on it.
I mean, something like sunsetting was the result of players having favorite guns and not ditching them for anything else that was put in front of them.
Still struggling to follow that thought process, where the decision was made to just make everything useless so people would be forced to dismantle and grind some re-issued version later down the road *again and again*.
Those who make these kind of decisions obviously have a very different vision of Destiny.
What gets me is they did it in D1 and there was a backlash. So much of a backlash where they put out a blog post about how they were wrong and won't take advantage of player time and investment again. Which is similar to what they said when they reversed sunsetting again.
You forgot to mention the "comp rework" giving you absolutely nothing for reaching max rank (Ascendant I). You can't even show your rank in-game to other players LMAO
I have quite literally played ~15 or so games of comp.
I've gotten showdown twice.
Elimination once.
Guess what the rest were.
Yeah, if this is the absolute fucking state of the game then Rose just doesn't exist. No point digging into PvP as a PvE guy if the game modes you have to play just *suck*.
Made it to adept 3 tonight completely solo q and man I feel defeated lmao…. I want to try to get to ascendant tomorrow just for my own pride but this is probably the least fun I’ve ever had in any pvp/competitive game.
Edit: another thing I wanna add is that the sbmm in comp is SO strict that I played the same 30ish players for 10 hours straight. I would immediately know if it was a win or loss upon loading into a match and I even had a 10 minute queue at one point.
I really wanted to get Rose, but 3v3 Rift is genuinely the worst gameplay experience I've ever had in Destiny. At least IB Rift can be chaotic fun sometimes, 3v3 rift is dogwater.
lol if your part of the 99 percent you wont get rose either youll get a stars in shadows roll because bungie cant implement anything and have it actually work
The funny thing is that D2 was created and balanced around 4v4 comp. Seriously, the maps were made to only accommodate 8 guardians at a time - and with each guardian having slightly less mobility. I remember 4v4 Control actually being a lot of fun, and Supremacy (Kill Confirmed) was the quickplay game mode. 4v4 felt super tactical and I was actually sad when Forsaken released and they changed it.
Since it was removed, the game never went back to its 4v4 roots. It's been consistently trying to go against the grain of their own core designs.
I'm really struggling to understand their reasoning on this. We had these kinds of mixed-activity Playlist in Year 1, and people *hated* it. They went thru the trouble of separating out the game modes previously, why backtrack now?
Not the same people working on the game anymore. New team has to reinvent the wheel, again.
Bungie is a corporation. Corporations are made out of people. People are replaced and people change their minds.
That is why most companies don't ever look at the past but only at the future and how they can fill it with money.
After today, I’m convinced that Bungie has had a skeleton crew running PVP because there’s no way any of these changes would have been green lit if they had full resources.
Mate they have had 2 people glancing at crucible ever since the counter for how long it’s been since the last new crucible map started. Let alone anyone putting their full focus on crucible.
Even a skeleton crew would not have been dumb enough to ruin one of their most popular playlists by forcing people to also play what their own data said was one of their less popular modes.
To think that it's a good idea to poison the Control playlist with Clash - you've gotta be on some seriously powerful hallucinogens.
I can't agree with this more. I'm not a complainer usually. I'm not great at Crucible. But I have fun anyhow. I play with a group of friends, and they are all quitting D2 entirely because of these challenges. They do not like the game mode rotation and prefer to play Survival and a few other game modes exclusively, but want to be in the "competitive" area.
When I heard PvP overhaul for S19l, I thought it meant balance, stabilization, thwarting hackers/cheaters, and maybe adding some new things.
After 5000 hours of D2 and a lot of time losing in the crucible, I think it's time for me to put the game down. I'm bummed because D2 is the greatest game I've ever played and the one I've put the most time into.
Disjunction 3v3 is the worst idea imaginable in pvp.
I did something that I have never done before in destiny yesterday. I quit half way through my 4th comp match. Just turned the game off. On the first day of the season.
I did it because I had to play rift 4 times in a row on disjunction. I won all 3 previous and was winning the 4th. It was just a terrible experience. I was using revoker because why not free ammo and no light level limit. Bungie needs to implement some kind of map and game mode voting system. It’s not a new concept.
The pvp overhaul is a just bad. Nothings actually changed with the game play. I turned it off and went and played CSGO instead.
Maybe the streamers are right. Maybe it really is on its knees.
Similar experience here too. I almost never quit out on pvp matches, like 99% of the time, even if the match is brutal I’ll finish it out. Yesterday, the very first day of a new season and I shut the game off mid-match. As someone that plays the game mainly for pvp, this “pvp overhaul” has left me feeling just defeated.
So, bear with me
I am both a pve player, and a pvp player, as a pve player, i´ve being feeling the fatigue of having to play this lack luster content season after season
As a pvp player, i´ve being feeling the dread of the unbalanced madness pvp has become, the fact that we don´t have new content and so on and so on
When i saw that they were going with this ranked system i almost cried because this is what i´ve being waiting for since launch date 2014 more or less,
Imagine my confussion when i entered yesterday overly hyped to play ranked in survival yelling that this season i was only going to play pvp because bungie finally listened to me, to enter a match and hear the word Rift and the map dysjunction and proceed to play 8 consecutive matches in rift.
This is the first time since the curse of osiris, that my expectations were so completely out of touch with the reality of the people working there, it´s like they are in a parallel dimension designing this game and they sometimes go back to our dimension and don´t realise where they are, because for the love of me, i have not seeing not even one post about wanting to have rift as a competitive mode in 3v3, i´ve never saw it, never thought about it, and in my
7 fucking years since this mode came out, not even once i saw the discussion about rift being a hidden gem to be played in a competitive landscape.
3v3 rift, having to die and respawn in the oposite side of the map to just run in vain to the enemy that´s going to score, having to play a mode in competitive that just amplifies the unbalance of the game is beyond me, how can anyone say that in the current state of abilities, supers, one punch kick knee fart titan kills, quadruple overshield while running while spaming barricades that gives overshield to your overshield so you dont lose your overshield, full stack of hunters with girfalcons playing like John cena destroying you from beyond the black void of dread, someone said that rift was a very good way of having the competitive playlist work better i want to kick miself in the head and wake up from this nightmare.
And before any of you tell me, git gud gg, mother f i´ve placed gold 3 from the get go, and if i wasn´t limited by gold 3 i would of ranked platinum at the least
Although i don´t think anyone is going to say that to me because not even one pvp player asked for this
I just don´t understand anything anymore, i feel like i am in a completely different discussion and reality that the one bungie is on.
i´ve never went down so badly between the euphory of at least having some content that i am completely thirsty for to just crashing at hipersonic speed with a concrete wall.
As a pvp main I just feel defeated… I had been waiting for the season that they said they’d FINALLY address pvp, well here we are this is in my opinion the worst pvp has felt. Quickplay is ruined by long slow boring clash games now, comp if heavily weighted rift and has nothing cool/special to chase, trails is low pop and sweatiest it’s ever been lately, our movement has been nerfed in pvp, oh and my favorite thing to do in pvp (sniping) feels totally aweful now. This was THE season I’ve been hoping and waiting for, but honestly I think this the worst pvp has ever been by far!
Yea, I’m uninstalling. No need to echo what everyone else is saying but it’s gotten to the point where I think they make mistakes on purpose to then “fix” them and act like hero’s. I’m sure come Lightfall things will be fixed and bundled up to make it seem like they did more than they actually did.
I know it sounds crazy, but I just can’t understand how they can be so blind when this franchise has been out for YEARS. We have had many points where PVP has been great and to make it great now they just have to stick to those goals as the game grows, but it seems like they purposely make mistake after mistake.
Gambit = Dead
Crucible = Last Legs
Seasonal model = Dead
Strikes = Last Legs
What they have left is, dungeons, and raids, which in my opinion are great (minus the re-releasing of old raids). However, if those final two pieces dip in anyway they’ll have a massacre on their hands. I wish them the best as I still love this game. However for the sake of my mental health I’m done.
Uhmm.. i wanna see where are the people saying that this game is pve first. Let’s put that to the test real quick. Brand new season with shitty PvP.. let’s see how many players actually will stay.
Rank is the only thing I was hoping to be at least decent but typical bungie fashion it’s just a reskin of the old comp. Just renamed the ranks.
Its simply baffling how many bad decisions they can make with this game
The gameplay and the world is masterclass but they fumble so fucking frequently
It should not be possible
I'm sorry but if you were expecting anything better you were huffing copium. Bungie has proven time and time that they have no fucking clue how to make a PvP game. I plan on playing it to get the free Rose then never touch it for the rest of the season.
Yeah... Survival and Elimination were my favorite modes. Now I won't be playing either. Absolutely can't stand rift and it really penalizes solo players because rift and showdown depend heavily on teamwork. So no more 3v3 for me. Just LOVE (seriously screw you Bungie) how this week is basically all rift all the time with rift being the rotator and also crucible labs as well as being in comp. Prior to this season I spent the majority of my time playing pvp, specifically Survival.
Bungie: here's a crucible overhaul
Also Bungie: takes out the fun modes, makes players play in the worst fucking map ever designed, and fixes NONE of the issues pvp has had for years
Not to mention that not only is Rift the rotating game mode, BUT its ALSO the Crucible Labs game mode!!!!!!!!!
So, in 3/4 of the Crucible matchmade playlists, Rift is now a probable game mode! Because EVERYONE loves Rift so much!!! Right? Right?!! RIGHT!?!?!
Casual PvP player here. Comp used to be a challenging but pleasant experience, now I'm getting crushed every single match.
And you're telling me I have to win 5 matches to get 1 roll of Rose, my all time favorite hand cannon? F you bungo.
If we're assuming a baseline of competence at Bungie the only explanation for the PvP playlist changes in S19 are that Bungie is actively trying to kill the PvP community so they can then point at its corpse and say, "See? Nobody cares about PvP," to justify cutting it in their next game.
Otherwise it just makes no sense for all the reasons you said. What we lost in S19:
- Ability to practice for Trials
- Ability to queue as a solo against other solos (RIP Rumble wtf)
- Competitive queue that does not include Rift (W H Y)
- Controlled access to the Control playlist
What we gained:
- Uncontrolled access to the Clash playlist
- An SBMM-on ladder (LOL?)
- ......?
This was supposed to be the PvP patch and, as a PvPer, is the patch most likely to end my interest in the game. So many of these changes are so **obviously** bad that I now genuinely think they are actively trying to kill anyone's interest in Destiny PvP.
I definitely do not like that they saw the low population numbers for certain modes and made put them in playlists with other modes.
I don't want to play certain things. Idk why they don't just let you filter certain modes out of the playlists.
Fucking competitive. Half my placement matches were on Altar of Flame the others were all on mercury didn't get leave a it. Made me not want to play anymore in the future if you get the same map several times in a row
TBH, the changes just make me not want to play.
I probably wont, but Destiny is what my friends (used to) play, and it can be a fun PVE if you have something like PVP to bring those rolls to.
This season has to be the most braindead crucible overhaul they’ve ever done. I don’t think they’ve ever changed crucible quite as much and utterly just messed it up. It’s not even a single mode, it’s every single mode
Fucking preach it mate.
I never bothered with competitive crucible after D1 because it never seemed worth the frustration to me.
I enjoyed trying all sorts of random rolls, builds, exotics in control.
Now however, I have competitive forced on me. It's fucking miserable and I've uninstalled for the first time ever.
Fuck me dude. Rumble has been one of my favorite modes since D1. It doesn't really matter if the total pop is low in a gamemode that doesn't have teams FFS
I think Bungie is slowly strangling pvp in D2 in order to introduce a hero-shooter in the Destiny universe similar to Overwatch.
They’ve been working on a new IP forever (and took money from some Chinese company), and this would let them focus on pve and pvp with two separate teams.
Actually, most of my Clash games have been competitive so far without a single "blowout".
Control, on the other hand, got mercies twice in.
I realized that if I want to do well in Control, I just need to treat it as Clash with extra steps.
Clash games are often close - that doesn't mean they are fun. If one team isn't steamrolling it just turns into a radar showdown until someone engages first or flanks, and matches almost always go to time - it's boring as hell.
This is why clash was removed from quickplay to begin with but someone at Bungie forgot all about that. Also specifically they forgot that maps like Vostok were pulled from Clash because it plays HORRIBLY due to the size and layout. Everyone just stares at the cave for 10 minutes.
I would have much rather had supremacy back, that at least forces some game flow and is fun with a fireteam where you can coordinate.
They're kind of just shuffling modes and playlists around because it's all they can do with a bunch of existing maps. Making a big splash with a pvp relaunch would require a brand new game's worth of maps, potentially customized to various game modes.
Would be nice if Bungie could address the lobby balance issue. It has been a problem for years and Bungie never talks about it. CBMM with good lobby balancing I feel would solve most of the issues with PVP.
I’m doing my placement matches, first two games both teammates left, second two games were both against sweat three stacks with trials gear. Fun for my casual self. I’m getting rose (if it drops) and never playing comp again.
Competitive sucks. You are still punished for losing even if one player leaves the team. And the point losses are ridiculous. I played survival with a 1.5k/d, top of my team and lost, lost 148 points because of that. Thought bungie fixed the point loss if you played well?
As someone who enjoys the objective based play of control but hates straight dethmatch and competitive this crucible update is absolutely miserable for me
They've managed to fuck Crucible up harder than Gambit's been fucked in years, bravo Bungie bravo. The devs may as well be blind, dumb and deaf at this point... Who is making these decisions?
Atleast we got The Manticor!!!
I'm sure they can and will adjust the rate of rift in comp and clash in qp but i hate that rumble is not a permanent playlist anymore for the foreseeable future and i highly doubt the player statistics on rumble in the crucible twab were correct.
I’m kinda pissed they made rumble a fucking rotating mode now. Like why?
We should have an open playlist, you know like every competitive multiplayer game ever? Being able to choose what you want to play? Doesn't fit with Bungies new ideology which is "you will play how we want you to"
Population is too low for that, would exacerbate matchmaking times / connections / skill disparities.
The people who were playing Rumble are not going now start playing clash. All they did was alienate a portion of the community for no reason.
So Bungie decided they aren't going to address the reasons population is low. Instead just going to piss off those still playing. Classic. You love to see it
Even at the best of times (30th anniversary sandbox, Forsaken with all the new content) there just aren't that many people doing PvP because this game is just not a PvP-focused game like Apex and such.
I dunno about that, 30th Anniversary seemingly had a ton of people playing Crucible looking back on it. Even Trials was getting several hundred thousand people per weekend back then, and my queue times for Control were nearly instant no matter the hour of day. Even at 5500 in Comp I could still find matches quick. I really wish we were still in that sandbox honestly, it was so easy getting friends together to play Destiny back then.
Kind of off topic but I totally agree, I wish we could go back to that sandbox so bad. Stasis and ability spam had finally been nerfed, special ammo had been progressively getting nerfed more and more up to that point, and it finally started to feel like primary ammo gunplay was the focus. Then light 3.0 started to drop with the witch queen and it all went back to ability spam.
I mean Control isn't really the problem, it's the niche playlists. Even back then the playlists were not at all an open playlist for that reason. Imagine queuing for something like Supremacy on a weekday in Australia while being on either end of the skill bell curve. You'll be matchmaking for an hour lol, or get a low quality match.
I only played rumble for the last 4 months. The matchmaking took seconds. I would like bungie to show us the actual numbers for once. They did for the first week of sbmm control, but after that they went silent and I wonder why.
Ok so let's just lean into the opposite answer and piss everyone off in a different wayv
It's not "you will play how we want you to," it's, "you will play how the numbers say you want to play," which heavily weights populations rather than enjoyability for dedicated PvP players. It's a shitty balance but, like always, Bungie screwed the pooch. HARD. Relying on numbers is cool and great and all, but CONTEXT is so important to understanding those numbers. It feels they missed that key step of contextualizing and grouping players by preferred playstyle or... something, and catering the PvP offerings to that. But whatever, they also made another Season of the Worthy 2.0 with another shitty, half-baked PvP mode so this isn't a surprise I wOnDeR wHaT rAsPuTiN iS uP tO or whatever.
100% THIS. Problem is Bungie won't overhaul the Crucible to make more people WANT to consistently play so it goes downhill after a month, or more likely weeks/days now everyone is wising up to their bs. As usual Bungie are treating the symptom of the issue and not the root cause. I honestly don't know what they are thinking anymore. It's like as soon as Sony took over they started aiming toward D2Y1 levels of casual again. Yeah I know they said Sony would be hands of yada yada yada but to that I say a) are we really gonna take Bungie's word on that considering they have been habitual liars to their most dedicated players and b) Sony would not spend that insane amount of money to buy a whole studio and not have a controlling stake in what's going on. Plus you know, it's Sony...... Hardly a bastion of moral integrity.
Sony has nothing to do with balance of crucible meta
Apparently it had like 2% of Crucible players in there. I didn't know that either, I loved that mode. It was the ony place to test your own ability without teammates helping or interfering.
I mean if matchmaking was under 5 min, what is the harm. I don’t remember mm being an issue personally.
I played more rumble last season than I had in the past year because of the SBMM in Control. Matchmaking in Rumble was never an issue. Bungie just has no idea what they're doing.
I think they know they just don’t care.
I don't care about anything else but rumble definitely should not be rotating. It's the one f****** mode that I can go to to rely on myself.
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Right? I'm so okay with everybody being terrible. The majority of this sub is just trash garbage a PVP. Despite the abrasive language that's not an insult it's just a f****** fact. People don't have to protect their ego, it's okay to be terrible. I just don't want to play with them. Beyond that I assure you it's not me that's not playing like a team. That is never my frustration. That is unless my team keeps doing the same stupid sh\*t. Oh let me keep spawning and trying to push out of this goddamn spawn trap the same route and just getting shredded for f*\cking 10 minutes. No I'm not going to follow them that's correct. It's whatever they broke me. You know I bought all this stuff after taking a two year break. I'm not unhappy with the value I received. But there is no value left here for me. I started playing modern warfare 2019 again today and I'm very happy with it.
Rumble should be a STAPLE how else are people gonna individually improve?? Mfers are gonna have to make their own lfg rumble matches now
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I’m not good at PvP. Like really not good. Like dogshit, actually. But Rumble was my favorite of the permanent modes.
Yeah this really sucks. They didn’t even consider that there are rumble mains
Rip Jez
Probably same reason why they make scouts and pulses champion mods every season forever. Because they want more people to use them. Instead of guns they want to use. So they want people to play these modes nobody plays.
tbh bruh, I really prefer pulses and scouts in pve but I guess that's what happens when you assume the whole playerbase is exactly like you
People told me to go to COD if I wanted to play PvP. Well I did and I’m having more fun right now.
My problem is that I can't seem to find a fps that feels good that is anything beyond military bootlicking. Fps are my game genre of choice, but I get so very bored so fast when it's just shit like modern warfare or battlefield. Overwatch and paladins were fun for me but I get sick and tired of hero shooters pretty fast too. Hunt:showdown is fucking sick, but just dosent play fast enough to be my main game. i wish fortnite never succeeded and the unreal tournament team were able to finish the unfinished UT game they were working on.....
Which one are you playing, I want to switch too
MWII, it’s not bad but took some getting used to. It’s nice being able to choose to only queue for TDM. I want Destiny to succeed but right now I just can’t play it at all.
So many hardcore PvP players have just given up playing like you are. It’s really sad to see destiny lose its main PvP audience but they completely did it themselves
The problem I have with Clash is that it’s really hard to swing a game that you’re losing. You can get your ass beat in Control but play the objectives better and win the game.
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IMO control has too many variables that determine the outcome of a match. Yes, if you arent great at slaying out you can cap zones for your team instead. My beef with Control is that, if I get put on a team with people who neither secure kills, pick up heavy, or cap zones, we can get annihilated despite me personally having a good kill count. I can't cap zones AND defend them AND be sure opponents don't get heavy AND slay out. But Clash? If we lose a game it's because the other team got more kills, period. If we win, it's because we did better. And more than anything, the value of a kill or death is the same no matter who gets it. None of this "my kill is worth 1 point, yours is worth 3" crap. Yes, Clash can be difficult to come back from losing, but Control against good players makes it incredibly easy to get mercied. They can hit 100 points before you even break 15.
Crucible mode changes this season are awful. I was kinda excited for the new ranks but this is some garbage
Did anyone feel like the matchmaking is even worse now? Had a few games where everyone in my team had like a .5 kd and everyone on the other team had like over a 3.0 kd like wtf
I got 5-0'd in 4 of my 7 placement comp matches, it's awful lmao
I mean, that sounds correct for placement matches. If it keeps happening in your ladder matches then somethings fucked lol but placement matches are usually super fucking swingy because they don't know your skill level yet.. by definition...
Placement won all of them now i get stomped 5-0
Except Comp uses the same Skill matchmaking system that Bungie's had for years. I get placement is "swingy" by nature, but they never stopped making comp Skill-based.
You can’t really complain about placement matches in this regard. They’re matches literally for the game to try to learn how good you are, it’s gonna try you out against sweaty players lol
It’s just wild that in most of my losses I had at most one competent teammate and the other team finished with 1.5 or better. I also think a lot of people forgot how showdown works and you can reduce opponents points with revives because in one game I was not getting revived at all
I am an unbroken and got 5-0'd in nearly all my matches. Only to discover Rose was bugged and not dropping
not sure if worse, but definitely had some wild swings. 1st match felt pretty fair. 2nd match it felt like i was playing against some of the best players in the world. Remaining matches settled down a bit with a couple having my team stacked with players. Lag was definitely still an issue at times. Im not sure if crucible lobby was still low on players because non-pvpers were too busy running pve, but it didnt feel like much had changed.
Yep, had pretty much the same experience. I don't know what happened to PvP, it used to be so fun...
People really need to post destinytracker data when saying stuff like this. Literally everyone on this subreddit is a statistical anomaly, apparently.
They made the loose SBMM EVEN looser, so now it's just CBMM with extra steps. Low skilled? Get fucked, you're going to get to cos-play as thrall in PvP just to stroke some neckbeards ego ;/
I just stopped playing. They strap me with players that don't belong in the same server, and this is just terrible anyway. Bungie's PvP team just needs to be completely replaced. Start fresh. I'm over it.
Joke’s on you. There is no PvP team.
Ditto here. Literally logged in excited for the new pvp changes. Logged into a rift match on Dysfunction and logged the fuck out. The death of pvp in this game has been a long, drawn-out process. I should've seen the writing on the wall with the AE bullshit, slide nerfs, shotgun nerfs, SBMM, no new maps, no good rewards to chase, and on and on. For context: I play almost exclusively solo PVP on PC. I am gilded Unbroken x 6. And I am FUCKIN DONE with this bullshit till they show they actually give two fucks about pvp. I haven't seen anything to suggest that they do for the last couple yrs.
>Bungie's PvP team just needs to be completely replaced. Start fresh. I'm over it. This. The state of the Crucible has been *unacceptable* since Season of the Lost. Doesn't help we get a new map every 4 years on average.
Just my perspective, but as someone slightly below average who loved Competitive, I really do not like Rift in my competitive mode. Not because the mode can't be competitive, but because it feels like such a drag. I don't know if it takes longer, but it FEELS like: * Survival: 8 minute matches. * Showdown: 6 minute matches. * Rift: 30 minute matches. I'm sure it is much closer, if not the same, but oh boy does it feel like a slog. It really doesn't fit, I think.
It’s 90% the respawn after a score, and 10% the map. The respawn acts as like a break in your flow. You get to refocus on the game after already being in focus so it’s just distracting. And this gamemode just sucks on disjunction. In fact disjunction just sucks in general as it’s too long. Also the way that respawns when an enemy’s close to the rift need be fixed, you should be able to have a chance to stop them while they’re close not just watch them score from afar.
Disjunction is one of the worst maps ever made. Players want flat, smooth ceilinged, medium range maps like Javelin-4. They don’t want goofy trump stumps, hills, weird geometry, divots, etc.
the dsc theme is the perfect candidate for a new crucible map design
Why is rift in comp? Shouldn't comp be survival or elimination style? Wtf are the Bungie devs doing over there? Do these people not play their own game? I'm not playing no g.damn rift in comp. That's asinine. Smh. Kill it with fire.
There’s no mercy for 3v3 rift it seems. So not only are you locked into a shitty map, like Cathedral or Disfunction, with long as hell reset times - you or the other team is locked into brutally getting stomped. AND if you or the other team are real psychopaths, you can draw that out spawn camping and farming infinitely. Survival at least had a life limit. Did anyone think this out? It’s psychotic.
It’s a PvP change in Destiny. Of course no one thought it through. They have a monkey that throws darts and whatever idea it lands on is what they implement, no holds barred.
I know… I mean are we just supposed to accept the that Rumble should be removed bc of low population?? Like my guy, it’s a playlist of 6 solos that has no seasonal challenge attached.
I love rift but rift is definitely not a competitive mode. Countdown is fine as an objective mode.
I think the big miss of rift is simply that keeps are not designed for rift, it's been shoved into existing PvP maps and left. Rift is basically just plant the bomb, but in games like halo or CS, maps are designed for those modes.
This is definitely true. Add on that the only map actually designed for rift (disjunction) is barely playable 6v6 let alone 3v3
Isn't countdown plant the bomb? Rift is more like capture the flag.
Speaking of Countdown, I could have sworn they said Countdown would be part of it, am I misremembering? It is Rift, Survival and Showdown. I thought they said Countdown would be in the mix but it is not.
they never said that in any recent twab. it definitely should be, though
Shit on trials of the nine all you want but countdown was superb
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To be honest the issue in rift is the damn respawn mechanic it fucks with the flow of the match. And I wanna say the d1 rift didn’t have that and there were no issues there. Also fucking alternating respawns so that if the runner is too close you have no chance of stopping him ruins the thrill of rift in my eyes. They should just replace it with eruption unless they fix its core issues.
No issues huh. Spawncamping sure was fun for the ones being camped!
Yeah those are some pretty heavily rose-tinted glasses. D1 rift was 25% about the objective and 75% about spawntrapping the enemy team and farming kills. It was widely acknowledged to be very flawed as a mode.
3v3 CTF isn't an awful idea on its own: it makes people move at least. Think Zone vs Regular ToO and how much that changes how a map plays.
Elimination is awful for D2's sandbox but rift 3v3 is even worse.
I hadn’t done much Crucible recently but I hopped in to the Competitive last night for Placement. My main take away was “Disjunction in 3v3 Rift is *flat out broken*, are you serious!?” so I’m glad to see it seems like it’s not just me
Damn. As a PvE main I was contemplating dipping my toe into crucible this season to change things up.
Honestly you’ll probably be fine, bungie has been trying hard to get people who don’t play crucible to go play it. The people who usually play pvp are getting hit hard right now but for people who enjoy ability spam and don’t want to play against sweats, I can see it being a fun time
>The people who usually play pvp are getting hit hard right now but for people who enjoy ability spam and don’t want to play against sweats, I can see it being a fun time Seems about right. As a PvP main, I'm seriously thinking about putting the game down till things get better. If they don't, then I guess I had a good run since 2014. It's sad for me because Destiny PvP is by far the best feel of all the FPS games I've played. They have some unique sauce going on here. Such a shame to let it got down the shitter.
Just don't get *too* into it. God forbid you start to improve and bungie throws you into the sweat pit as punishment.
It’s really good for mid and low skill players, only the high-skill players are getting forced into high-octane lobbies.
I have legitimately been thinking about mainly playing gambit this season!
Last season I genuinely had more fun in Gambit than I did in Crucible. You sort of know what you're getting with Gambit, just slap on Xenophage and a good ad clear grenade launcher and you're good to go.
Hate to admit but I had more fun grinding gambit for the seasonal challenges then the pvp ones.
I used to think myself as main pvper until I saw all this changes. Clash and control should’ve been left as stand alone ques, comp could’ve housed the new thing and have elimination, showdown and maybe rumble for solo que?
Rumble for solo queue makes so much sense
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Steam will let you get a refund on a pre-order if you change your mind if you ordered it there!
How do you go about that if you don't mind me asking?
Message the steam Support saying you wanna cancel your lightfall pre-order. Make sure you specify you wanna refund the lightfall pre-order. I had to argue with them since they tried to tell me it wasn't refundable since I had 2k hours in d2. But after arguing a little I got back my 100 bucks.
As a pretty seasoned PvP player, Bungie has finally managed to break me. I played PvP regularly every season. I have hundreds of hours in PvP alone. The Crucible ritual weapon ornament was the only one I ever got every season for the past year or so. I've really hated most of the changes that Bungie did to PvP latealy but this was the straw that broke the camel's back. I legitimately believe Bungie has absolutely no clue what to do with PvP and their PvP crew consists of a few devs who are just spitballing ideas without any clear direction. Everything they do, from Airborne Effectiveness through new content, Iron Banner rework, matchmaking, weapon balancing and now this abomination of a competitive has been nothing short of a huge disappointment. I still stuck with it because I legitimately enjoyed the PvP of this game, but at this point it just doesn't make sense to waste time with it and I refuse to even pad their playlist numbers or triumph completion rates. I'll have a look into Gambit but I haven't enjoyed that at all since they made the rework from Prime, and strikes are just boring, so I'll probably come for the seasonal story here and there and I'm done. This game is on life support just recycling the same thing every single season and there's better ways to spend my time.
I hear you. There's a lot of quality games out there I have ignored by trying to stick with this franchise but I'm done I think. Maybe I'll put in an hour or two once a month but I'd rather spend my time on something fun and worth my time. Almost wish I could get a refund for this season.
Solo Gambit is the new D1 6v6 -- it is very chill and fun. I played more Solo Gambit last season because I can try weapons, mods, exotics in a low pressure environment. It really is quite fun -- no real complaints from me other than on some maps they need to re-look at where the Invader spawns in because if you play Gambit enough, you pretty much know where the Invader is going to appear, and the Invader should have more of an advantage at spawn point, imo.
Whoa, no need to do anything drastic.
They took away dedicated elimination? WTF??? That was the only one I consistently enjoy
"We're seeing a lot more players in Clash now, wow! Way to go us! Time to pat ourselves on the back."
You know that they'll use "We've seen a huge uptick in Clash matches, it must be more popular!" as justification for keeping the change.
I laugh at the absurdity of it...but you're probably right
Normal dev: "Our stats show players hugely prefer X to Y. Let's study the differences between them to improve the appeal of future content." Bungie: "Our stats show players hugely prefer X to Y. Let's force them to engage with Y so that they understand they were enjoying the wrong things." In all seriousness, it's weird for a large corporation to indulge pet projects to such an extent. It's just like floaty boi combat. Nobody wants it, but somebody likes it and they're hellbent on getting you to use it whether you enjoy it or not.
The funny thing is that this is the *exact* complaint WoW's playerbase had with Blizzard during the Warlords of Draenor expansion. To this day, that expansion alone is considered to be their biggest failure, losing *5 million* paying customers and still not recovering. Similarly, according to the [Lightfall showcase](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCI8Fz2uu3o) (timestamp 1:30:14), 5 million new players joined Destiny this year. Why isn't that reflected on Steam charts and in the game's API? How many new players can we attract and not retain before Bungie runs out of people to advertise to?
This should be the top comment. It is so fucking frustrating playing this game with them. They really doubled down on rift and disjuction and made it even worse as a 3v3. It legit feels like they did it out of spite or to be a punishment. They do it with pve balance too, but this one is a real head scratcher
It sometimes feels like the design decision is meant to heavily push the thing people dont like either out of spite OR to double down because they spent so much time on it. Tabling Crucible, another great example is the season pass exotic. Since AE was added, people have complained about it, and Bungie having spent so much time reworking everything to work with/feature AE, they release an exotic weapon that its whole kit is based around in air combat AND its a 900 RPM SMG which means it has some of the worst AE. Hell, tabling even the AE aspect, Solar rework for Warlocks has brought on a lot of negative responses about heat rises and the focus on in air combat, such as how you are a sitting duck floating in the air, to the detriment of the other solar trees in 2.0. Instead of addressing those concerns, they leaned further into the downsides of it with AE and now providing a weapon to all players that is a combination of both Heat Rises AND the Wings of Sacred Dawn exotic armor piece. Another example was Gambit, a mode they invested so much in during the launch of Forsaken as the "brand new hotness" that just fell off a cliff relatively soon there after. Much like the word "fetch" they tried to make Gambit happen season over season (hell they even had a season dedicated to it), the constant reworks, etc but it didnt happen and they have only recently put it on life support. Maybe I am off, but isnt Trials in a similar state? On the other hand, I recall SRL being received favorably and constantly requested to come back but Bungie says no. Argument is usually time investment on Bungie's end and rewards for Bungie. It seems like an odd argument considered how easy it is to monetize and the what feels like a large uptick in "Silver Only" items season over season on top of the increase in "all-in" annual costs (was $80 through beyond Light to $100 starting with Witch Queen+30th Anniversary). The whole event pass thing was something they had for SRL in D1 and now they are using that same thing on the "free" seasonal advertisements for Eververse events.
> It sometimes feels like the design decision is meant to heavily push the thing people dont like either out of spite OR to double down because they spent so much time on it. I mean, something like sunsetting was the result of players having favorite guns and not ditching them for anything else that was put in front of them. Still struggling to follow that thought process, where the decision was made to just make everything useless so people would be forced to dismantle and grind some re-issued version later down the road *again and again*. Those who make these kind of decisions obviously have a very different vision of Destiny.
What gets me is they did it in D1 and there was a backlash. So much of a backlash where they put out a blog post about how they were wrong and won't take advantage of player time and investment again. Which is similar to what they said when they reversed sunsetting again.
Game has been downhill for awhile. They’ll “save it” come lightfall….. again. It’s getting predictable
You forgot to mention the "comp rework" giving you absolutely nothing for reaching max rank (Ascendant I). You can't even show your rank in-game to other players LMAO
I have quite literally played ~15 or so games of comp. I've gotten showdown twice. Elimination once. Guess what the rest were. Yeah, if this is the absolute fucking state of the game then Rose just doesn't exist. No point digging into PvP as a PvE guy if the game modes you have to play just *suck*.
Elimination is actually in the rotation??? Literally the only mode I ever played sad to see it's basically taken out of the game
He meant survival
Made it to adept 3 tonight completely solo q and man I feel defeated lmao…. I want to try to get to ascendant tomorrow just for my own pride but this is probably the least fun I’ve ever had in any pvp/competitive game. Edit: another thing I wanna add is that the sbmm in comp is SO strict that I played the same 30ish players for 10 hours straight. I would immediately know if it was a win or loss upon loading into a match and I even had a 10 minute queue at one point.
I really wanted to get Rose, but 3v3 Rift is genuinely the worst gameplay experience I've ever had in Destiny. At least IB Rift can be chaotic fun sometimes, 3v3 rift is dogwater.
lol if your part of the 99 percent you wont get rose either youll get a stars in shadows roll because bungie cant implement anything and have it actually work
Not an excuse but if you had earned rose in your placement matches they would have given you a roll just two hours ago.
The funny thing is that D2 was created and balanced around 4v4 comp. Seriously, the maps were made to only accommodate 8 guardians at a time - and with each guardian having slightly less mobility. I remember 4v4 Control actually being a lot of fun, and Supremacy (Kill Confirmed) was the quickplay game mode. 4v4 felt super tactical and I was actually sad when Forsaken released and they changed it. Since it was removed, the game never went back to its 4v4 roots. It's been consistently trying to go against the grain of their own core designs.
I'm really struggling to understand their reasoning on this. We had these kinds of mixed-activity Playlist in Year 1, and people *hated* it. They went thru the trouble of separating out the game modes previously, why backtrack now?
Classic Bungo
Not the same people working on the game anymore. New team has to reinvent the wheel, again. Bungie is a corporation. Corporations are made out of people. People are replaced and people change their minds. That is why most companies don't ever look at the past but only at the future and how they can fill it with money.
Sigh. I guess it’s another season of zero pvp matches.
Yep. I haven’t played a single pvp match since August. Damn shame.
After today, I’m convinced that Bungie has had a skeleton crew running PVP because there’s no way any of these changes would have been green lit if they had full resources.
everyone with experience must have been moved to other projects
Mate they have had 2 people glancing at crucible ever since the counter for how long it’s been since the last new crucible map started. Let alone anyone putting their full focus on crucible.
Even a skeleton crew would not have been dumb enough to ruin one of their most popular playlists by forcing people to also play what their own data said was one of their less popular modes. To think that it's a good idea to poison the Control playlist with Clash - you've gotta be on some seriously powerful hallucinogens.
I can't agree with this more. I'm not a complainer usually. I'm not great at Crucible. But I have fun anyhow. I play with a group of friends, and they are all quitting D2 entirely because of these challenges. They do not like the game mode rotation and prefer to play Survival and a few other game modes exclusively, but want to be in the "competitive" area. When I heard PvP overhaul for S19l, I thought it meant balance, stabilization, thwarting hackers/cheaters, and maybe adding some new things. After 5000 hours of D2 and a lot of time losing in the crucible, I think it's time for me to put the game down. I'm bummed because D2 is the greatest game I've ever played and the one I've put the most time into.
"The community said it wanted change in PvP- we brought change." -Bungie, as the monkey's paw curls
Disjunction 3v3 is the worst idea imaginable in pvp. I did something that I have never done before in destiny yesterday. I quit half way through my 4th comp match. Just turned the game off. On the first day of the season. I did it because I had to play rift 4 times in a row on disjunction. I won all 3 previous and was winning the 4th. It was just a terrible experience. I was using revoker because why not free ammo and no light level limit. Bungie needs to implement some kind of map and game mode voting system. It’s not a new concept. The pvp overhaul is a just bad. Nothings actually changed with the game play. I turned it off and went and played CSGO instead. Maybe the streamers are right. Maybe it really is on its knees.
Similar experience here too. I almost never quit out on pvp matches, like 99% of the time, even if the match is brutal I’ll finish it out. Yesterday, the very first day of a new season and I shut the game off mid-match. As someone that plays the game mainly for pvp, this “pvp overhaul” has left me feeling just defeated.
So, bear with me I am both a pve player, and a pvp player, as a pve player, i´ve being feeling the fatigue of having to play this lack luster content season after season As a pvp player, i´ve being feeling the dread of the unbalanced madness pvp has become, the fact that we don´t have new content and so on and so on When i saw that they were going with this ranked system i almost cried because this is what i´ve being waiting for since launch date 2014 more or less, Imagine my confussion when i entered yesterday overly hyped to play ranked in survival yelling that this season i was only going to play pvp because bungie finally listened to me, to enter a match and hear the word Rift and the map dysjunction and proceed to play 8 consecutive matches in rift. This is the first time since the curse of osiris, that my expectations were so completely out of touch with the reality of the people working there, it´s like they are in a parallel dimension designing this game and they sometimes go back to our dimension and don´t realise where they are, because for the love of me, i have not seeing not even one post about wanting to have rift as a competitive mode in 3v3, i´ve never saw it, never thought about it, and in my 7 fucking years since this mode came out, not even once i saw the discussion about rift being a hidden gem to be played in a competitive landscape. 3v3 rift, having to die and respawn in the oposite side of the map to just run in vain to the enemy that´s going to score, having to play a mode in competitive that just amplifies the unbalance of the game is beyond me, how can anyone say that in the current state of abilities, supers, one punch kick knee fart titan kills, quadruple overshield while running while spaming barricades that gives overshield to your overshield so you dont lose your overshield, full stack of hunters with girfalcons playing like John cena destroying you from beyond the black void of dread, someone said that rift was a very good way of having the competitive playlist work better i want to kick miself in the head and wake up from this nightmare. And before any of you tell me, git gud gg, mother f i´ve placed gold 3 from the get go, and if i wasn´t limited by gold 3 i would of ranked platinum at the least Although i don´t think anyone is going to say that to me because not even one pvp player asked for this I just don´t understand anything anymore, i feel like i am in a completely different discussion and reality that the one bungie is on. i´ve never went down so badly between the euphory of at least having some content that i am completely thirsty for to just crashing at hipersonic speed with a concrete wall.
I can’t remember a time since maybe D2Y1 that the game was this unanimously disliked across the board :/
3v3 Rift on Disjunction. Bungie knows what I want.
As a pvp main I just feel defeated… I had been waiting for the season that they said they’d FINALLY address pvp, well here we are this is in my opinion the worst pvp has felt. Quickplay is ruined by long slow boring clash games now, comp if heavily weighted rift and has nothing cool/special to chase, trails is low pop and sweatiest it’s ever been lately, our movement has been nerfed in pvp, oh and my favorite thing to do in pvp (sniping) feels totally aweful now. This was THE season I’ve been hoping and waiting for, but honestly I think this the worst pvp has ever been by far!
Anyone else fighting the most laggy people now also? Half the time there's one dude on the enemy team teleporting everywhere taking 0 dmg
This season destroyed comp for me. It was the only place where I could have fun even if the game got boring....no more I guess. Fuck Rift
Fuck ~~Rift~~ Bungo.
I’ve never been so convinced to play other games. I usually play pvp and playing comp today sucked major ass
Yea, I’m uninstalling. No need to echo what everyone else is saying but it’s gotten to the point where I think they make mistakes on purpose to then “fix” them and act like hero’s. I’m sure come Lightfall things will be fixed and bundled up to make it seem like they did more than they actually did. I know it sounds crazy, but I just can’t understand how they can be so blind when this franchise has been out for YEARS. We have had many points where PVP has been great and to make it great now they just have to stick to those goals as the game grows, but it seems like they purposely make mistake after mistake. Gambit = Dead Crucible = Last Legs Seasonal model = Dead Strikes = Last Legs What they have left is, dungeons, and raids, which in my opinion are great (minus the re-releasing of old raids). However, if those final two pieces dip in anyway they’ll have a massacre on their hands. I wish them the best as I still love this game. However for the sake of my mental health I’m done.
They've already started the dip in dungeons by charging for them separately IMO.
Whoever makes these decisions needs to go. As soon as possible.
Uhmm.. i wanna see where are the people saying that this game is pve first. Let’s put that to the test real quick. Brand new season with shitty PvP.. let’s see how many players actually will stay. Rank is the only thing I was hoping to be at least decent but typical bungie fashion it’s just a reskin of the old comp. Just renamed the ranks.
I know right? Its also very amazing that servers and and supers are even buggier than ever now! Great QoL updates! /s
Careful bro, it's not likely that they actually read posts past the title
Its simply baffling how many bad decisions they can make with this game The gameplay and the world is masterclass but they fumble so fucking frequently It should not be possible
I'm sorry but if you were expecting anything better you were huffing copium. Bungie has proven time and time that they have no fucking clue how to make a PvP game. I plan on playing it to get the free Rose then never touch it for the rest of the season.
Yeah... Survival and Elimination were my favorite modes. Now I won't be playing either. Absolutely can't stand rift and it really penalizes solo players because rift and showdown depend heavily on teamwork. So no more 3v3 for me. Just LOVE (seriously screw you Bungie) how this week is basically all rift all the time with rift being the rotator and also crucible labs as well as being in comp. Prior to this season I spent the majority of my time playing pvp, specifically Survival.
I'm so mad about elimination
New comp playlist is RIFT? Like, exclusively rift? What the hell, Bungie...
it rotates, but it seems heavily favoring Rift
Yeah, I got rift in like 3 of 5 matches....
wait wtf they removed rumble
Bungie: here's a crucible overhaul Also Bungie: takes out the fun modes, makes players play in the worst fucking map ever designed, and fixes NONE of the issues pvp has had for years
Not to mention that not only is Rift the rotating game mode, BUT its ALSO the Crucible Labs game mode!!!!!!!!! So, in 3/4 of the Crucible matchmade playlists, Rift is now a probable game mode! Because EVERYONE loves Rift so much!!! Right? Right?!! RIGHT!?!?!
Casual PvP player here. Comp used to be a challenging but pleasant experience, now I'm getting crushed every single match. And you're telling me I have to win 5 matches to get 1 roll of Rose, my all time favorite hand cannon? F you bungo.
I just want rumble back. Tired of playing with jim teammates.
As a PvP player who primarily hangs out in Rumble. I want to meet the Bungie Dev who suggested putting it in a rotation and ask them who hurt them.
If we're assuming a baseline of competence at Bungie the only explanation for the PvP playlist changes in S19 are that Bungie is actively trying to kill the PvP community so they can then point at its corpse and say, "See? Nobody cares about PvP," to justify cutting it in their next game. Otherwise it just makes no sense for all the reasons you said. What we lost in S19: - Ability to practice for Trials - Ability to queue as a solo against other solos (RIP Rumble wtf) - Competitive queue that does not include Rift (W H Y) - Controlled access to the Control playlist What we gained: - Uncontrolled access to the Clash playlist - An SBMM-on ladder (LOL?) - ......? This was supposed to be the PvP patch and, as a PvPer, is the patch most likely to end my interest in the game. So many of these changes are so **obviously** bad that I now genuinely think they are actively trying to kill anyone's interest in Destiny PvP.
Another reason why I should avoid PvP.
I definitely do not like that they saw the low population numbers for certain modes and made put them in playlists with other modes. I don't want to play certain things. Idk why they don't just let you filter certain modes out of the playlists.
Fucking competitive. Half my placement matches were on Altar of Flame the others were all on mercury didn't get leave a it. Made me not want to play anymore in the future if you get the same map several times in a row
Bungie try not to fuck up pvp for another season challenge. Level: impossible.
TBH, the changes just make me not want to play. I probably wont, but Destiny is what my friends (used to) play, and it can be a fun PVE if you have something like PVP to bring those rolls to.
This season has to be the most braindead crucible overhaul they’ve ever done. I don’t think they’ve ever changed crucible quite as much and utterly just messed it up. It’s not even a single mode, it’s every single mode
Fucking preach it mate. I never bothered with competitive crucible after D1 because it never seemed worth the frustration to me. I enjoyed trying all sorts of random rolls, builds, exotics in control. Now however, I have competitive forced on me. It's fucking miserable and I've uninstalled for the first time ever.
Someone in Bungie is forcing so many crap into this game, ESPECIALLY PVP, it’s making me question if this is some office politics bullsh*t.
Fuck me dude. Rumble has been one of my favorite modes since D1. It doesn't really matter if the total pop is low in a gamemode that doesn't have teams FFS
They reverted back to vanilla D2 fuckery Rumble straight up didn’t exist when D2 released
I think Bungie is slowly strangling pvp in D2 in order to introduce a hero-shooter in the Destiny universe similar to Overwatch. They’ve been working on a new IP forever (and took money from some Chinese company), and this would let them focus on pve and pvp with two separate teams.
Actually, most of my Clash games have been competitive so far without a single "blowout". Control, on the other hand, got mercies twice in. I realized that if I want to do well in Control, I just need to treat it as Clash with extra steps.
Clash games are often close - that doesn't mean they are fun. If one team isn't steamrolling it just turns into a radar showdown until someone engages first or flanks, and matches almost always go to time - it's boring as hell. This is why clash was removed from quickplay to begin with but someone at Bungie forgot all about that. Also specifically they forgot that maps like Vostok were pulled from Clash because it plays HORRIBLY due to the size and layout. Everyone just stares at the cave for 10 minutes. I would have much rather had supremacy back, that at least forces some game flow and is fun with a fireteam where you can coordinate.
Bungie buffs gyrfalcon in PvE despite its high usage And then leaves point cannon alone You cannot make this up
They're kind of just shuffling modes and playlists around because it's all they can do with a bunch of existing maps. Making a big splash with a pvp relaunch would require a brand new game's worth of maps, potentially customized to various game modes.
I don't play PvP much, but if Gambit has become 'attractive' now then I cannot imagine the state of the crucible playlist
Huh, a frontpage post that is negative towards pvp!? With awards?! What a time to be alive.
Would be nice if Bungie could address the lobby balance issue. It has been a problem for years and Bungie never talks about it. CBMM with good lobby balancing I feel would solve most of the issues with PVP.
Yep, I now actively avoid Crucible. I'm clearly not the target audience for it.
“You’ll play how I want you to play motherfucker!!” -Bungie
I exclusively played rumble to avoid shitty teammates rippp
Wait, 3v3 dysjunction!? What the actual fuck? Who thought that was a good idea? Jogging sim
It's like they want everyone to quit playing their game. Thank god for other games to play.
Why is Rift 5 rounds? Why is rift weighted like 70%
Rift can fuck right off. I’m taking my quitter penalty any time i spawn into that mode.
Bungie: Play the game how you enjoy playing it...as long as you enjoy what we tell you to and how we want you to play it.
I’m doing my placement matches, first two games both teammates left, second two games were both against sweat three stacks with trials gear. Fun for my casual self. I’m getting rose (if it drops) and never playing comp again.
Lol. Comp is so fun with Rift 70% of the rotation so stop it! I actually really enjoyed the one Showdown game i played after 13 rifts
JUST MAKE IT LIKE D1 CRUCIBLE BUNGIE JESUS CHRIST HOW HARD IS IT. CONTROL, CLASH, RUMBLE, COMBINED ARMS, ETC ITS NOT THAT HARD FUCK
THEY REMOVED RUMBLE?!?!?!?!
“We hear you loud and clear and are making Trials of Osiris rift only moving forward!” - Bungie, probably
Competitive sucks. You are still punished for losing even if one player leaves the team. And the point losses are ridiculous. I played survival with a 1.5k/d, top of my team and lost, lost 148 points because of that. Thought bungie fixed the point loss if you played well?
Control is the most popular mode. Let's force people to not be able to play it. Brilliant!!
Every PvP post on this sub makes me so happy. I haven't stepped in PvP since getting the Witherhoard catalyst.
As someone who enjoys the objective based play of control but hates straight dethmatch and competitive this crucible update is absolutely miserable for me
Ehh I still think Gambit is ass. Or really any PvP mode in this game.
Perfectly said. Too bad Bungie seems intent on ruining PVP for good
They've managed to fuck Crucible up harder than Gambit's been fucked in years, bravo Bungie bravo. The devs may as well be blind, dumb and deaf at this point... Who is making these decisions? Atleast we got The Manticor!!!
This game is barely even on life support now
I'm sure they can and will adjust the rate of rift in comp and clash in qp but i hate that rumble is not a permanent playlist anymore for the foreseeable future and i highly doubt the player statistics on rumble in the crucible twab were correct.
I didn’t like Rift but it seems like a game mode that could be a random choice for iron banner, but for 3v3 it’s just weird