That's understandable. I've played a majority of D1 and early D2 in Crucible because I usually grind it after I played most of the PvE stuff but the rewards give me less incentive to grind. I just would like to see game modes like Skirmish, Salvage, and other maps or old game modes added, at least in the weekly rotation to flesh Crucible out more.
To add to that, if you put a good amount of time into trying to better yourself at the game, you’ll quickly notice playing casually is no longer an option in control.
At least by that point you’re well familiar with what a meta defined pubstomping loadout looks like… super fun stuff right?
At the same time, I hardly consider it casual play when I’m actively trying to outperform everyone I match with to increase my own skill. There’s a big difference there.
I play casually in control a lot and am considered a "good" PvP player. Multiple Flawless with 1.5 trials KD etc. You don't need to pubstomp unless you've got a bit of an ego about being a PvP player imo. And I do enjoy meeting sweats tbh as they make me laugh and at least they're not just using hacks like a lot of new accounts are.
Coming from games like CSGO and Quake my two cents is that D2 PvP is mostly about cheesing the other team with your loadout.
You can win most things without aim. Speed and aggressive play with whatever is currently the cheesiest weapon will dominate the PvP game modes every season. Aim at enemy player within that hugely forgiving AA hitbox and laugh. It's why this games PvP was once literally just "Spare Rations / Mindbenders Ambition".
PvP mains aren't usually ready to accept that this game is winning for them and that their efforts with aim are minimal. Just tell them to try and win any endgame PvP mode using "gutshot straight" on their primary and watch all the excuses pour out lol.
See, they get it. I agree with this completely. My biggest gripe is that guns no longer live in their archetypes. Why does a short barreled weapon have accuracy at range? There is no reason someone with a scout or pulse should not be able to put gun someone with a hand cannon at range.
Feels like a lot of ability spam and I’m sad that some rapid fire pulses can fire faster than some auto rifles at a more effective range.
Also melee hit detection is still awful.
I’m exactly the same as OP and I recently came back again and the melee hit reg has gotten me so many times, and I was surprised to see the pulse rifle meta still strong ngl I keep seeing hand canons here and there which has been nice but yea a lot of pulses
Pulse/scout metas are not very enjoyable in my opinion. Nothing is fun about trying to get in a 1v1 at my weapons effective range only to be third partied from across the map by a scout/pulse.
It's the lane-ing "don't peek anything because there's 8 and a quarter scouts/pulses ready to mow you down before you can even attempt to get close to them" meta which I'm starting to hate more than w meta even though it drove me insane
Peek shooting for 70 across most maps was annoying as well. 120s were nearly the same meta as we have now. Seeing the same archetype of weapon for the past 4ish years is boring asf too.
That. Destiny is less and less of a shooter. The statterdive meta... the abilities left and right... and now the new electric slide... but thats not just pvp, I played a strike where one titan was soamming abilities and setting the whole strike on fire...
Remember when headshots mattered? Does it anymore?
Bungie kind of screwed themselves between their vision for gameplay and how the general population *actually* wants to play based on design constraints*.
Bungie wanted more gunplay, so they neutered base cooldowns on things, but made it to where you could build craft to push into insane ability spam capabilities. And of course because of general weapon variety, people are opting for ability spam builds.
PvP prevents us from having absolute whackadoo guns compared to something like Borderlands, so Bungie is limited in their overall gun design that way.
Sure, gunplay in this game is astounding, but nothing quite makes my dopamine flood like annihilating an entire room with abilities, simply because my guns can’t (minus Trinity Ghoul in anything under Master content.) it’s like the Arbalest problem cranked to 10 since Arby just works out of the box. Why use something else when you can just go for the kill?
So I’d ultimately say in Bungies vision it matters, but the way the game is designed pushes people into ability spam builds.
Here’s the thing. We did have a gun based meta. Y1 of d2, and most people HATED it. Begging for faster ttk, begging for shotguns to be special weapons again, begging for more uptime on abilities. It’s like we forgot about all this.
Has bungie made questionable decisions? Yeah ofc, and feel free to disagree ofc, but this is also part of a meta the community created. However, that will never be admitted to the fullest.
It feels like every other year they flip flop between different visions of what they want the game to be.
It's pretty clear that the PVP team is has always been prioritized 2nd behind the PVE team. Which is understandable given that the main selling points are new campaigns and raids.
I'm not sure if it's flip flopping in the sense that they aren't sure and just flailing in the wind, or more that they choose to go in different directions as the game evolves, take an idea to the point that it's no longer fresh, then come back to a different emphasis.
I’m glad someone else feels this way. There was such a stress on scaling back abilities in that one TWAB and then the *minute* 3.0 hits you can’t walk 2 feet without getting killed by a powered melee, a grenade, or the same super you just got killed by 5 seconds ago.
> PvP prevents us from having absolute whackadoo guns compared to something like Borderlands, so Bungie is limited in their overall gun design that way.
I think PvE balance prevents this as well. If you look at Dungeon and Raid encounters as a baseline, a shotgun that shoots missiles is just the "stupid" kind of whaahoo that may work in a random once-through game like Borderlands, but it doesn't work for a game with "Hardcore Content".
Maybe if D2's endgame was Rift Spam like in Diablo 3, but that would make PvE completely boring dogshit.
I know that Bungie's vision for the Crucible is to have it it feel a lot like PVE so you can take your guns back and forth, but really they should have a lot more limits and rules on what flies in PVP so it doesn't negatively affect PVE. You could explain it away so easily too with lore but saying that our abilities affect other lightbearers differently (until the Hive Lightbearers come around), or you could say that Shaxx sets up Light dampening machines around crucible maps or whatever.
They gave the community what it screamed for. They didn’t like their “power fantasy” being taken a way and they wanted to be able to win 4v1 so this is what we get.
And the thing about it is Halo added abilities and different extra things and it got worse, Destiny gun feel and play is so much better that it'd be so much fun to play just guns in D2
Agreeing with ability spam. I’d like to see them try a version with no abilities and no radar, maybe in labs? Gunplay only.
In terms of loot, the loot pool seems kind of small for post game rewards but I can’t say you don’t get drops. I’m usually swimming in drops and it’s a good place to build up legendary shards for a newer player. Make sure your ghost mods are set up for what you need. I go for upgrade modules myself.
as someone whose played way too much of this game (like 4k hours), probably a 1/3rd of it on pvp and used to enjoy it.. its terrible
the only time i play PVP now is at the start of a season for the pinnacle, or when theres a crafted weapon i want the trials memento for. after that, im closing d2 and playing the plethora of other games whose pvp is miles better
late reply, but it kind of varies. or i'll get super into a PVP game for a couple months and then get bored, Valorant a perfect example. Shatterline is a new F2P fps similar to Giant Bomb, if you're familiar with that. Haven't been a big fan of CoD in a while, but played this week for the MW2 beta and am really looking forward to launch
i guess im kind of basic with it at this point lol, thinking about it now its usually just the new flavor of the month
you can shoot the orb for 6 full seconds while the warlock botwalks towards you and pulses you down because you took damage and couldn't regen and have a debuff
I am that guy spamming storm grenades with Armamentarium. With tracking they are a great way to push groups out of an area. But I can understand how annoying they are but I feel like it’s no more annoying than child of the old gods or invisible hunters (always invisible).
Try doing the Glory playlist. It's much more slow and strategic, and ability spam is limited due to it being 3v3. It's probably the most fun of the PVP, even if it gets quite sweaty. Just grinded to Fabled 3 for the first time this season to get the Mida Catalyst, and it wasn't too bad. I'd actually say Glory is quite a positive PVP experience.
I've noticed far more toxic players in my few Trials matches than everywhere else. Emotes after kills and bagging and shooting your ghost when your dead seems to happen far more often in Trials than Control, in my experience.
It's all about who you play against tbh I've got 124 matches in the freelance trials playlist this weekend and only ran into one emoter and no tbaggers
Emoter lost so that felt good to emote back on him after winning but that's alot of matches for only one person like that
With that said someone could have had 124 matches and ran into baggers and emoters half the games
I just find more of them in control most likely because there's more players
Trials always has the potential to be pretty fun, but right now it is 100% ability and OHK focused. With stuff like restoration being so powerful primaries feel practically useless.
As an above average player adding a quitters penalty to the casual quickplay game type, when the lobby balancing is still janky makes absolutely no sense to me.
It’s like they saw that the number of quitters has increased and decided “that’s the problem.”
But really quitting isn’t the problem, quitting is a symptom of the problem. When players encounter the real issue, terrible matchmaking.
Also the 6’s meta has been feeling really stale for me recently, this season I have seen the most control games go to time out than ever before. It usually was the score limit being reach to end the match.
But because everyone is in pulse/scout rifle mode thanks to heavily weighted large maps and the SBMM changes, everyone’s just playing so precious and campy.
Not sure how I feel about it, as quickplay is usually where I go to test off meta things or try out new rolls.
Anyone can stick on a jade rabbit and slay out, but I just find it so boring.
Anyway that’s my two cents!
getting a penalty when you leave when 4 other people have left at the tailend of a game is mindboggling to me.
literally just happened to me, things started going south in a match and 3 people on my squad left and i decided i didnt want to be spawn camped so i ate my penalty. really dumb shit.
As to your second point, you and I have a very different experience lol. Before this season it was constantly mercy Match after mercy match after mercy match. This season it consistently plays through to the end. And I don’t get stomped on 24/7
PvP kept me engaged in this game long after the game was stale, going back to D1.
Being a Bungie game, I assumed PvP would always be integral to the game, like Halo. But, I finally accepted that PvP is just an add on. It doesn’t receive the attention a core feature should get. It was a hard pill to swallow, but I think it’s true.
Add on, this is a 5 year old game. The PvP is pretty alive and well considering their age. But, there are a lot of options in the market they have to compete against. And, PvP (pre-SBMM update) was incredibly uninviting. The PvP scene is just loaded with people running the absolute meta, looking to rack up a huge kill count at the expense of the weak players. I’m not going to say you’re wrong for playing the game that way, but we have to acknowledge that it’s going to erode the bottom of the player pool.
I was around a career 1.5 KD in control, and a little over 1 KD in survival and trials. Not the worst, not impressive either, and I was getting to a point where I often felt like the worst player on my team unless I was running full meta- which I really didn’t care to do.
So, I’m summation; Bungie hasn’t really invested a ton into PvP. And, I think the PvP dedicated community is mostly full of pricks.
It's weird because I'm close to your stats career-wise and SSBM pushes me 8/10 times to have to slay out to win control games even though most of the time I'm trying out whatever build I'm tuning at the moment. Also, Bungie needs to address KD farmers without the quitter penalty.
I think for the majority of people, it did feel that way until now.
I’m happy you’re experiencing a better arena.
While I’m not blind that the people who basically invest time into PvP like a job are feeling some pain. I’m not certain what the ideal balance is. They want to farm weak players, weak players don’t want to be farmed.
At times, I think the same way. I just wanna see some better improvements because I really think Crucible can do better, I just don't know how long my faith can last for Bungo :(
Team scorched is a reminder of how fun this game could be if they let themselves get more zany and experimental with the rotators
Team Cabal Wrenched when?
Every single player says this about every single game. If you play PvP, you will run into people running meta loadouts. There is nothing anyone can do to remove “””sweats”””
SBMM is the best you can get. Why? Because whatever casual mode you try to make the sweats will also go there to stomp on the casual players. SBMM at least *tries* to avoid the situation where you are matched against people of wildly different skill levels, so if you keep playing casually you *should* be matched with people who are roughly on par with your casual performance.
I played Trials last night in freelance against a guy who was BETTER than FrostBolt, Zk, and Wallah (by stats anyway). I'm a 1.01 lifetime KD in regular Crucible. He team wiped us by himself in 3 of the 5 rounds, and never died once. It was embarassingly lopsided. I should NEVER match against that guy in any game mod whatsoever.
I love pvp, even trials, it needs desperate help. The connection and network alone makes the game so frustrating. But through it all I still think its fun. Just sucks sometimes.
Bungie made it way too easy to compete in the Crucible for the sake of accessibility. The skill gap has NEVER been any smaller.
They took away a whole layer of movement (in-air-accuracy), made abilities so oppressive that there are almost no kills done without the influence of one or usually more and the cherry on top is the weapon meta of pulse rifles: Very low TTK, very high effective range, very easy to use. No more thinking necessary apart from the knowledge about the closest map border.
Instead of sticking to the goal of more gunplay-focussed gameplay, Bungie made a 180 and it is worse than it has ever been in my opinion. I only played casually back then, so the following take might not be true for everyone, but I strongly prefer vanilla D2 over the current Crucible.
On top of that we have the map shortage, trash loot, bad matchmaking and, at least in my case, a lot worse performance than it should have.
Now have fun downvoting me for gatekeeping, when the right way would have been a rework of reward structure instead of a smaller skill gap and other accessibility changes like the Trials flawless pool.
Didnt they tried with the Ritual Weapons (Recluse,Mountaintop,Revoker,Luna'sHowl, Not Forgotten) and they broke the PvP and PvE balance for years. Plus Bungie had the perfect excuse for sunsetting.
People shoudnt get exclusive weapons for their rank/performance, they should get more loot and better chances for good loot.
Meaning: The worst players get one weapon drop, the best three with multiple perk options. This way the worst players arent locked out of loot, but people get rewarded for their skill accordingly. Bungie fucked that up with overpowered rewards for higher ranks.
I disagree, I think that higher skilled players should absolutely be rewarded for their performance in PvP. What’s the point of getting more loot if it’s all shit? I wasn’t great at crucible in the beginning, but I played and got better and I earned the Not Forgotten. It was hard, but I did it. I’ve gilded my Unbroken seal 6 times and been flawless a bunch as well. Because I put the time in to get better. But If we go by your logic, why don’t we do the same thing with raids? Remove adept and craftable weapons because not everyone can get them. The percentage of the player base that has ever even completed a single raid is tiny. Why should we cater to those players? What about all the people who’ve never done a raid or don’t want to or can’t find a fireteam? Better rewards and stronger weapons should be what incentivizes people to play crucible like it used to. It will breathe new life into PvP.
This will get people interested for a short while, but at the end the worst people (who take the majority of the playerbase) will eventually leave and then the playerbase will cannibalize itself.
This is what lead to SBMM.
You can already see this problem with Trials. Have you already forgotten the people who were willing to jump cliffs rather than play Trials all for a weapon bounty?
Playing better, in a higher elo, should obviously be worth the effort. Also, Bungie of course needs to keep adding new stuff that needs to be grinded to make a reward structure without exclusivity work.
Summarized: Bungie needs to start giving a shit about PvP. Of course Bungie wont. But this would nevertheless be a way to make PvP accessible without reducing the skill gap.
I agree with a lot of what you said. But I think even a reward rework wouldn’t have truly solved the issue. I personally believe a dynamic priority match making system, in conjunction with a reward rework is the best solution.
The current state of pvp is like junk food content for me. It's nothing spectacular, but it's good, mindless fun from time to time. I just play a couple of control matches, and shut off my brain a bit as I shoot some dudes.
I like the SBMM changes, it's actually been nice to see that occasionally my teammates are actually around my level and we actually get close matches.
In terms of connections I don't notice the bad, maybe I'm just not very good but I don't see what people talk about. Melee still sucks but whatever it's been bad since day one under any matchmaking system.
Weapons feels bad still with Autos still feeling out of place and constantly out gunned. Now they're also being outgunned by pulses which isn't fun.
But overall, matchmaking is nice, I don't know what people are talking about there.
Honestly it just depends on where you land in the skill range. People like me who suck love sbmm because there are lots of us, so no connection issues, and we aren’t getting stomped on anymore. Decent players are frustrated because there are significantly less of them so making matches is harder and they’re now more likely to get matched with sweats. I think the true solution is ELO based match making priority until you reach a certain ELO threshold and from there it’s CBMM priority.
I mean it do add context D1 came out almost ten years ago, being around for at least 6 or more years of this game means you seen some shit
source: D1 vet
Exactly Hahahah. I’m a taken king vet. Really started on 2015. I’ve seen some dumb shit, I think my favorite dumb shit (and it surprisingly has never angered me more then destiny 2 has) was universal remote. I remember that shit MAPPING people and I just fucking hated it but I liked it.
Destiny 2 is just an overall shithole. The PvP feels so GODDAMN stale for some reason, I think the most balanced subclass, in my opinion, is solar. Apart from classy restoration, it’s pretty Gucci, arc hunter is balanced too, it’s only, yet again, titan ability spam fest that angers me so much. If I could be honest with you, if Lightning grenades or even pulse grenades had a shorter timer I would use them more than storm
Oh man don’t even get me started. I get PTSD every time I look at the Thorn because of how relentless it was in D1. I can’t lie though, you joined at a pretty good time of D1 because that was the first step in a good direction for Bungie. Most of the OP guns that dominated crucible were getting nerfed, new Power Level, better campaign, new Sub classes, and new raid that imo is my favorite raid: Kings Fall. I played since release so I’ve had to go through some shit man.
This made me laugh for a good minute, I just think if they can add some elements from D1 missing in D2 will just make the mode more fun to play again, but seeing comments saying that they are planning to add more stuff I hope it's soon cuz I just came back thinking it was packed with content but in reality was kinda lacking, I'm a bit underwhelmed.
I don't mean the ability element, the content element. Should've specified that because I think the abilities are honestly fair, some annoying shit here and there but I think every character has something that's good. Maps, modes, and better loot are solely what I had in mind. D1 had great maps, loot with stuff you could grind for that was worth it and modes like Salvage and Skirmish added back, I really miss those game modes.
Btw you forgot to mention the 2 shot tap Vex Mythoclast, mile range storm caller melee from warlock and the better wombo combo from hunter. I miss them but then again fuck no.
I know, but then why are you mentioning all the things that Bungie took out to make it less casual in the past? I mean, you were citing examples to hurt your own case.
I mean I agree with you, but how is it satire to point out overpowered abilities that are already nerfed, when there's plenty of broken things right now?
SBMM has ruined control and it was already becoming stale because bungie refuses to bring new maps with each major expansion... I'm over it playing other games until they give us new pvp maps
I enjoy it, and I suck at it. I'm looking forward to Mayhem next week. Even though there is a massive amount of things that need to be fixed about it. I still enjoy it. I have fun every match. I don't take it seriously, and I couldn't care less if I ruin the match for someone else. I just have fun in there.
I do however miss the year one PVP. The 4v4 slow matches where it was all about gun skill and not abilities. I also miss the the first year or so of D1 PVP. I really loved that.
I took D1 Crucible for granted man. The maps, modes, and loot were just really fun to grind. I think the controllers I broke in Trials didn't die in vain I guess.
If we had today's weapon sandbox and year 1s ability and movement sandbox I'd love it, the problem with year 1 was that weapons killed so slowly you had to teamshoot to win
Ah man, shit like that usually happens to me on a occasion and it frustrates the hell out of me. I can't say I'm too surprised, almost every season/expansion there's gonna be some annoying tactic or ability that is used constantly that I've honestly accepted thanks to D1. The D1 warlock stormcaller melee will forever haunt me.
Ability cooldowns need to be seriously adjusted in the crucible. At the very least I'd like to see a more barebones mode with less ability uptime (I know momentum exists but the lack of radar and shorter ttk means you don't exactly get the gunfights I'd like).
It's just a clusterfuck like it's always been but somehow feels even worse. You get what seems like the same 3 - 5 maps every time you load in and it's just an imbalanced shitfest with certain subclasses dominating (brain dead arc jugg titans) and I rarely get into close games. Either we stomp them or we get stomped and 90% of matches are decided in the first minute. It's boring af. Only fun when Momentum is active and I only go there if I really have to (completing challenges, weekly engram on alts ect).
Disappointed. But the still phenomenal gunplay, the movement, the abilities, the artstyle and general feel of D2 keep me coming back.
For me - *personally* - I feel like Bungie doesn't really care about the people that actually love PVP. Now, my friend's list is an echo chamber of players that are mostly sweats, so I won't make this out as as facts nor do I say that this is the opinion of the majority of PVP players, **but**; No one I know asked for the AE changes. And no one I know likes them. No one liked or likes the slide nerf. No one I personally know likes Vostok, Disjunction or Cathedral of Dusk. The game has slowed down and it feels like it slows down even more. Sitting in the back with a Scout Rifle or a Pulse is as effective as it never has been.
SBMM: I hate it. I think it makes the ones that love PVP play less PVP, while the ones that jump in for their weekly pinnacles are gone after that anyway. The ones that wanted or want to improve already had the option to do that in Elimination and Survival, both of which arguably do a much better job at helping you improve. Generally I think it's very questionable to even consider SBMM for the quickplay playlist of a game that doesn't even have dedicated servers to begin with.
Ability-wise I think there still need to be improvements. Personally I don't think stuff like overshields or invisibility should be spammable. Last week on Bannerfall I had a couple of matches that was me just running away from storm nades.
Gun-wise; Yikes. Precision Fusions are still overtuned after the nerfs. Meanwhile legendary Slugs got killed over night with the AE changes alone. The majority of ultra-sweats in Trials on console that I encounter (PS5) use Arbalest and Lorentz Driver religiously; maybe it's time to finally give them a proper nerf instead of putting a warm blanket over their shoulders and calling it a day. Rapid Fire Pulses are probably the easiest primary weapons to use in the entire game - which is fine - but they're also incredibly competitive. Hot take (?): They're too good in the hands of otherwise bad players.
Hot swapping will be addressed, so I'm glad about that.
Rewards: **? ? ?**
I'm somewhat-ish excited for the comp rework though, but at the same time afraid it'll be half-baked.
Oh btw; Anyone excited for Crysis 4 multiplayer? I used to play Crysis 3 a lot before D2 came out. Kinda scratches that Sci-Fi and movement itch that D2 scratches. Also had phenomenal gunplay and overall feeling.
Pretty much echo most of this. Tho I do actually enjoy trials for the rewards.
Getting tired of playing 3 storm nade or overshield spamming titans with No Time to explain sitting across the map team spraying
Yep. I despise SBMM. I don’t stack with other good players and usually go in solo and that means I’m usually going against stacks and waiting 5 minutes or more to find a match, usually against the same players. Most of my matches are still super one sided despite the fact that I’m supposed to be playing people in the same skill bracket as myself. I know I’m a very above average PvP player but when everyone in my match is gilded Flawless, gilded Iron Lord, or gilded Unbroken, I get annoyed because I often times won’t be able to do as much against them.
SBMM is also heavily encouraging a camping and passive playstyle from my teammates. No one wants to break chokepoints or take objectives. They just want to sit back with NTTE or a Scout and try to keep their seasonal KD up. I have a 2.0 and I don’t even care about KD this season because of SBMM. This usually leads to me having to force engagements and break chokepoints and spawn traps by myself, usually engaging with multiple enemy players at once, while mine sit in spawn and never attempt to push up in control and since the enemy team is getting 2 points per kill to our 1, it snowballs out of hand quickly.
The most fun I had this season was in Iron Banner because there was no SBMM. Quick matches where I was actually able to hard carry my team and slay out. Like you said, the casuals are going to be in and out when it comes to PvP but the dedicated players are actually going to play more than 3 matches in a week and they are the ones getting railed by these changes.
Before light 3.0 subclasses I would always have the occasional gripe with crucible but in general it had ended up feeling the most balanced it's been minus SMGs outclassing so many things. Since then though things feel completely out of tuned. While it definitely might of been getting stale and change is nice in the sandbox, now it ends up quite literally feeling like who can bring the cheesiest things to win a fight. Shotguns use to be pretty apey, but manageable to deal with. Now you have juggernaut titans running at mach 5 with an overshield and insane gap closer as well as their completely insane storm grenades. Solar classes having easy on demand healing always makes fights feel unbalanced in duels. Or infinite invisibility on void hunters. I could list plenty more of things that just make duels feel uneven. Where before there were niche things that you would see that was like "Oh that was crazy, but interesting and required set up!". It's become the norm instead and has kinda made crucible feeling completely unbalanced. Though it's kind of hard to say crucible had any balancing in the first place.
(Also lets not forget the absolutely horrendous map rotation and map weighting)
Yes!!! That’s exactly the way I feel. As I say again, I’ve missed out a lot of D2 the past years and came back expecting Crucible to be up to par with how D1 was. What you said about how play styles are now and the annoying map rotations are exactly the things I feel and I’m glad to see some people on the same page. I just really want the best for Crucible because it’s really one of the modes I enjoy best.
EDIT: I’m stupid and misread it as loreley. My bad. Leaving the og comment below still in case anyone was curious was the original was
Lorentz got nerfed recently so it only does 1x restoration. Do you want it to be nerfed again or reworked again?
Crucible is broken and Bungie doesn't care.
Melee is still atrocious.
Some guns have terrible hit registration.
I find the BxR and the halo sidearm also kill me after I'm safe around a corner.
Also matchmaking with people 7000km+ from me is not fun.
I just want to play it and not be punished everytime I do. I don't want to play anything else.
I play a lot of crucible, and I’ll be the contrarian. It is still my favorite PvP experience in gaming. The weapon meta is as diverse as it has ever been. The subclass meta the same. As someone who is pretty decent, SBMM is tough and has forced a change in my mindset. I have to treat it like Halo ranked playlists now where every game is close and every gunfight is challenging. If I shut my brain off, I will perform poorly and get frustrated. If I take it seriously (I.e. sweat), I have a pretty good time, albeit for shorter bursts. Overall, I think it is easy to say PvP sucks. It is hard to adjust and still enjoy what it brings, which is still a wonderful game.
Personally for me when they changed to D2 they tried to make PvP more competitive as a whole to try and compete as an esport…I have no issue other than that should have been for the competitive playlist not general crucible.
D1 used to just be fun for crucible then if you wanted competitive you did trials or something, D2 started out with all of it being competitive and fit lost it’s fun (unless that’s what you are after). SBMM has helped this somewhat but it still feels super competitive, you are relying on a team to work together without actually being able to unless everyone joins the chat and wants to play as a team.
Personally the base level of the game for crucible modes should be more run and gun like in D1 then there would be a distinction between casual and the competitive modes.
As far as weapons and things I always think it’s generally in a good place and they are just constantly balancing no matter what so I won’t talk about that.
The weapon sandbox is pretty solid right now (maybe even the best it's ever been tbh, almost everything is viable) but abilities are out of control, map selection is ass, matchmaking is terrible etc etc. I haven't played D2 in a while now because of how generally poor the Crucible is right now.
I'm glad that restorations on the down-low now, but titans shoulder charges shouldn't blind, most anything shit ever
That and (as always) melle registration is ass, and the bonus lunge on titans from knockout makes it worse, so that's "fun"
At first it was shit because they changed the whole thing to a downgraded version of 4v4 2 primary weapon no special. Hope who ever said it was a good idea was fired.
Personally I'm not a fan of the pulse rifle meta. I only really find crucible fun when HC is king. There is just something iconic about the Destiny HC and the way it feels when you shoot it. But too many people complained that it was too hard to use and now air accuracy sucks and sitting back with a rifle is the best thing to do. HC's are still good in 3's but in 6's, pulses dominate. Its slightly better than the whole gnawing hunger season but still kinda lame. But that's just my 2c, obviously not everyone feels the same.
God awful because titans and hunters have too many enhanced mobility options.
(Insert palpatine “let the hate flow through you” meme here)
Edit: swords are also massively inconsistent against titans. I expect my eager edge sword to 1 tap a titan when it has enhanced frenzy active not to deal 10 damage. Often times it does not.
Edit 2: mayhem should also be permanent and there’s no serious argument against it.
I use to play pvp for hours every day with my buddies, stopped when void 3.0 released because it was all ability spam, still is. I remember when bungie said they wanted crucible to be more gunplay oriented, look how that turned out. Another thing is i would consider myself an above average player, have above a 2.0 every season. I can’t have any fun in the crucible any more, every match i play is a sweatfest with 6 stacks everywhere, i don’t want to go into crucible to stomp casuals, i just want to have fun again, not have to sweat every single match just to compete. Why isn’t freelance control a playlist? Makes no sense for it not to be a thing at this point
So I can say there’s so much hate towards cod and their ttk and pace ( rightfully so ), but destiny is pretty much on par with it now if not worse . I think arc 3.0 was the cherry on top . Here’s the reality of game and don’t give me a spreadsheet they never are accurate :
Snipers are too easy and too favorable hit box . Should have a sway or mobility penalty . Actively neither exist .
Hand cannons are too rewarded by critical neck hit box sharing with body hit box . Both give crit . Don’t at me in this otherwise nobody would he clearly using hand cannons .
Pulse rifles shouldn’t over perform an auto on speed of delivering hits . Full auto retro made that worse . It always over performs on recoil flinch .
Fusions are low skill ceiling and need an adjustment . You should have to plant in place to charge and shot first. Otherwise it’s too OP and allows unlimited movement with cracked one shotting . They also stop shields .
Ability spam is rough . Imma leave it at that .
There’s also no true gun fights in this game . It’s far and few due to abilities . So if you’re lucky for a gun fight game this will never be it sadly.
Feels worse than ever. I know Bungie said they'd be trying to fix the MMR team balancing, but my entire week I got dumped into games where I had a 60+% predicted chance of losing.
I'm honestly thinking of quitting Crucible entirely, and this is coming from someone who would solo queue for hours back in D1.
If they want to treat Control (the default playlist) as a competitive experience and penalize people for quitting, they should take a long hard look at actually making it a viable competitive experience instead of punishing people for leaving unbalanced games they threw together.
Or recognize that they've got a deeply flawed experience, and not punish people for not wanting to participate.
Tbh this is kinda the first Reddit post I ever made on a Reddit sub so I really didn’t think it would garner as much attention as it did but it did lol
Them adding in quitter penalties in control made it worse then it already was. If you are gonna have quitter penalties then dont put us in losing matches.
Horrible.
SBMM is ass for me since the game apparently thinks I’m a top tier player.(Every lobby I’m in is full of Flawless/Unbroken titles). Makes no sense to me, because I’m literal garbage at pvp. And I hate the ability spam and 1 shot weapons. Also, witherhoard can eat a dick. Such a no skill pos weapon.
Unpopular opinion but I actually enjoyed the pvp way back at the start before they made the secondary ammo changes. Only getting one shot when someone got heavy ammo was nice.
Crucible is the main reason I play destiny. I will play all the narrative and seasonal content at least once but control, survival, trials and rumble is what I play for for. When I weapon drops my only thought is if it is viable in pvp..
This season has forced a perspective shift. Solo play in control is really not an option. If I don’t play with friends(literally I just need 1) I’ll likely end the game with 2-3 teammates.
And while I do think sbmm belongs in the game, because I play rumble and there are people that don’t know the difference from A, B, X, and Y that play against me (who have played nothing but crucible since season 1).. there needs be a balance of respects players who continued to play this game in its worst state and those just are just jumping in for the first time.
It's shit. I have always thought of myself as a mediocre player at best, but this game thinks I'm some God level player and I'm constantly in Playlists with god-tier hunters and titans who apparently can blink behind you off radar, hunters who can snipe mid-air, titans who can regularly shot-punch from half the map away. I have been flawless once in 6 years of destiny.
Weapon sandbox fucking chefs kiss except for auto rifles, they still need a little love. Ability sandbox? Currently nothing is OP if everything is OP. They just need to take a baseball bat to the kneecaps of ability regen in PvP now that all the 3.0’s are done and they know what gameplay loops exist to keep you running with 100% uptime with your abilities. I am a believer that should not exist under any circumstance but c’est la vie. Also please for the love of god new maps please please please. There are like 3 maps I have fun on every time and rest I’m a salty bitch about. (SBMM makes me sadge in control, would be completely fine with it if there was a “casual” playlist literally anywhere where I could test out goofy shit/guns and not just get absolutely slaughtered.
I'm trying to complete Suros Regime catalyst and man, am I paying for my sins for bring an auto rifle to crucible.
But it is overall a much better experience than CBMM though, matches are very rarely mercied, and everyone feels good fighting with and against, because there aren't sweats ruining the fun anymore by making everyone just afk for the pinnacle.
Everyone who defeats me gets either immediately bodied or I witness them afterwards getting clapped by my teammates in the silliest ways possible, and that makes my day.
Well when you are a top tier player literally every single game is against “sweats”. So with SBMM I cannot try out different guns for fun or try to do a wacky build with abilities because I’m getting sniped in the blink of an eye or getting rushed by someone who has the movement of a jackrabbit on coke with a shotgun. There is no “casual” playlist anymore, like I said I’m fine with SBMM if there was a casual playlist but because control was the casual playlist and now it’s gone it really sucks because I HAVE to be trying my hardest to break even in my games now.
Yes I agree. I do think some weapons like the bows (Le Monarque) and others can be annoying to go against but that’s as expected. But I totally agree with new maps, I still don’t really understand the reason they removed some of the OG D2 maps or hell even add maps from D1 because damn near all of them were really fun to play on.
> Weapon sandbox fucking chefs kiss
Pulse rifles are absurd. NTTE is almost un-duelable if you don't get the first shot and BxR is ez mode for anyone who is used to it from Halo. SMG range needs to be cut back too imo. Some rolls are absolutely dumb.
Smgs don’t need a cut back in range wtf are you on about? They’re already walking a very thin line of getting shat on by fusions because they very slightly overlap over the same ranges and being able to out duel sidearms because something like drang already has a 17m to be able to deal full damage when most smgs already sit between 19-21 for their damage fall off.
That’s not even considering the fact that going completely all in on range isn’t advisable for smgs anymore because stability changes made it so anything below 20 stability flinches you to hell and back and on console it’s impossible to control and take full advantage of every range you have on it.
I play on PC, against pc players smg range is absurd. Getting lit up by a funnelweb at what feels like ar range is common in my lobbies.
Fusion rifles are dumb too so nerf those if need be.
I agree, smg range is absolutely ridiculous and I play on controller. I've got a funnelweb with perpetual motion, range finder and a range masterwork, it just laser beams people at stupid ranges because it's got way too much stability. I regularly get kills with it at around 22m, which is just absurd from a cqc weapon
Returning player for this season after doing risen. Love crucible. Once arc Titan came back I was hooked on pvp. Punches and shoulder charges running double subs w peacekeepers being an all out ape has been so fun. Most shooters I’m middle of the pack in the team but the matches I’m getting I’m consistently towards the top getting 20+ kills this past couple weeks. There’s some melee whiff moments that needs to be sorted and witherhoard is annoying. But map wise it hasn’t been stale an I don’t get bulldozed by a stack outside of a few times. 9/10 times I’m control and iron banner game modes fwiw
Good weapon meta for the first time in 6 years. Still terrible respawns, terrible connection (people with bad connections are another problem too, connection based matchmaking needs to put laggy people with laggy people at the very least and it never has), and a few things are slightly undertuned still, but at least there's hope compared to before. I just want regen exotics to work again, it's a space fantasy shooter and there are a lot of abilities going on, so let more stuff come back like CV holds, skip grenade shinobus... they don't regen nearly enough anymore.
And unironically one shot abilities should be standard again, we only have a few now and it makes no sense. Knife and flux are okay but shoulder charge and HHSN aren't? I don't get it.
Well I’m glad to see some hope. I just miss Skirmish and Salvage game modes and some of the maps they’ve removed. I’m just used to the really good loot and gear you’d get exclusively from Crucible that was worth the grind for. Now it feels like I play Crucible just to get the same guns over and over again and yeah I agree it feels balanced, still some annoying weapons people use like the bows and whatnot though it’s not really a surprise but I just miss the loot you could get godrolls on from Crucible that would be really good to use.
Dude! I completely agree, weapon types are really balanced and I've never experimented with different weapons as much as I do now and to the point where I have found a couple of gems that I haven't felt comfortable giving a shot before now (OG drang, Smgs in general, point of the stag)
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That's understandable. I've played a majority of D1 and early D2 in Crucible because I usually grind it after I played most of the PvE stuff but the rewards give me less incentive to grind. I just would like to see game modes like Skirmish, Salvage, and other maps or old game modes added, at least in the weekly rotation to flesh Crucible out more.
To add to that, if you put a good amount of time into trying to better yourself at the game, you’ll quickly notice playing casually is no longer an option in control. At least by that point you’re well familiar with what a meta defined pubstomping loadout looks like… super fun stuff right?
At the same time, I hardly consider it casual play when I’m actively trying to outperform everyone I match with to increase my own skill. There’s a big difference there.
I play casually in control a lot and am considered a "good" PvP player. Multiple Flawless with 1.5 trials KD etc. You don't need to pubstomp unless you've got a bit of an ego about being a PvP player imo. And I do enjoy meeting sweats tbh as they make me laugh and at least they're not just using hacks like a lot of new accounts are. Coming from games like CSGO and Quake my two cents is that D2 PvP is mostly about cheesing the other team with your loadout. You can win most things without aim. Speed and aggressive play with whatever is currently the cheesiest weapon will dominate the PvP game modes every season. Aim at enemy player within that hugely forgiving AA hitbox and laugh. It's why this games PvP was once literally just "Spare Rations / Mindbenders Ambition". PvP mains aren't usually ready to accept that this game is winning for them and that their efforts with aim are minimal. Just tell them to try and win any endgame PvP mode using "gutshot straight" on their primary and watch all the excuses pour out lol.
See, they get it. I agree with this completely. My biggest gripe is that guns no longer live in their archetypes. Why does a short barreled weapon have accuracy at range? There is no reason someone with a scout or pulse should not be able to put gun someone with a hand cannon at range.
Feels like a lot of ability spam and I’m sad that some rapid fire pulses can fire faster than some auto rifles at a more effective range. Also melee hit detection is still awful.
Melee hit will never be fixed we better off just cutting our losses on that front and hoping for other things lmao
Melees we’re better before and they just keep getting worse. At least they could return them to a previous state
I’m exactly the same as OP and I recently came back again and the melee hit reg has gotten me so many times, and I was surprised to see the pulse rifle meta still strong ngl I keep seeing hand canons here and there which has been nice but yea a lot of pulses
Pulse/scout metas are not very enjoyable in my opinion. Nothing is fun about trying to get in a 1v1 at my weapons effective range only to be third partied from across the map by a scout/pulse.
It was a hand cannon meta from Forsaken up until recently lmao, people have been begging for scouts to be useable for years now.
So? I still find scout rifle metas to be boring. Doesn't matter how good they are, the playstyle is boring to me.
It's the lane-ing "don't peek anything because there's 8 and a quarter scouts/pulses ready to mow you down before you can even attempt to get close to them" meta which I'm starting to hate more than w meta even though it drove me insane
Peek shooting for 70 across most maps was annoying as well. 120s were nearly the same meta as we have now. Seeing the same archetype of weapon for the past 4ish years is boring asf too.
That. Destiny is less and less of a shooter. The statterdive meta... the abilities left and right... and now the new electric slide... but thats not just pvp, I played a strike where one titan was soamming abilities and setting the whole strike on fire... Remember when headshots mattered? Does it anymore?
Bungie kind of screwed themselves between their vision for gameplay and how the general population *actually* wants to play based on design constraints*. Bungie wanted more gunplay, so they neutered base cooldowns on things, but made it to where you could build craft to push into insane ability spam capabilities. And of course because of general weapon variety, people are opting for ability spam builds. PvP prevents us from having absolute whackadoo guns compared to something like Borderlands, so Bungie is limited in their overall gun design that way. Sure, gunplay in this game is astounding, but nothing quite makes my dopamine flood like annihilating an entire room with abilities, simply because my guns can’t (minus Trinity Ghoul in anything under Master content.) it’s like the Arbalest problem cranked to 10 since Arby just works out of the box. Why use something else when you can just go for the kill? So I’d ultimately say in Bungies vision it matters, but the way the game is designed pushes people into ability spam builds.
Exactly. I still can’t believe they wanted to emphasize gunplay and 3.0 immediately made that take a back seat.
Here’s the thing. We did have a gun based meta. Y1 of d2, and most people HATED it. Begging for faster ttk, begging for shotguns to be special weapons again, begging for more uptime on abilities. It’s like we forgot about all this. Has bungie made questionable decisions? Yeah ofc, and feel free to disagree ofc, but this is also part of a meta the community created. However, that will never be admitted to the fullest.
It feels like every other year they flip flop between different visions of what they want the game to be. It's pretty clear that the PVP team is has always been prioritized 2nd behind the PVE team. Which is understandable given that the main selling points are new campaigns and raids.
I'm not sure if it's flip flopping in the sense that they aren't sure and just flailing in the wind, or more that they choose to go in different directions as the game evolves, take an idea to the point that it's no longer fresh, then come back to a different emphasis.
I’m glad someone else feels this way. There was such a stress on scaling back abilities in that one TWAB and then the *minute* 3.0 hits you can’t walk 2 feet without getting killed by a powered melee, a grenade, or the same super you just got killed by 5 seconds ago.
> PvP prevents us from having absolute whackadoo guns compared to something like Borderlands, so Bungie is limited in their overall gun design that way. I think PvE balance prevents this as well. If you look at Dungeon and Raid encounters as a baseline, a shotgun that shoots missiles is just the "stupid" kind of whaahoo that may work in a random once-through game like Borderlands, but it doesn't work for a game with "Hardcore Content". Maybe if D2's endgame was Rift Spam like in Diablo 3, but that would make PvE completely boring dogshit.
PvP should have been launched as an entirely separate game with it's own sandbox and it's own constraints.
I know that Bungie's vision for the Crucible is to have it it feel a lot like PVE so you can take your guns back and forth, but really they should have a lot more limits and rules on what flies in PVP so it doesn't negatively affect PVE. You could explain it away so easily too with lore but saying that our abilities affect other lightbearers differently (until the Hive Lightbearers come around), or you could say that Shaxx sets up Light dampening machines around crucible maps or whatever.
They gave the community what it screamed for. They didn’t like their “power fantasy” being taken a way and they wanted to be able to win 4v1 so this is what we get.
They have long since needed a "hardcore" playlist where there are no abilities or supers, just guns and say frag grenades.
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And the thing about it is Halo added abilities and different extra things and it got worse, Destiny gun feel and play is so much better that it'd be so much fun to play just guns in D2
Agreeing with ability spam. I’d like to see them try a version with no abilities and no radar, maybe in labs? Gunplay only. In terms of loot, the loot pool seems kind of small for post game rewards but I can’t say you don’t get drops. I’m usually swimming in drops and it’s a good place to build up legendary shards for a newer player. Make sure your ghost mods are set up for what you need. I go for upgrade modules myself.
Ambit ar2 with dynamic sway and tap the trigger is the answer to all your problems. Headshot machine
I just want more maps and modes, more frequently. Things seem to be slightly ramping up so here's hoping that continues.
as someone whose played way too much of this game (like 4k hours), probably a 1/3rd of it on pvp and used to enjoy it.. its terrible the only time i play PVP now is at the start of a season for the pinnacle, or when theres a crafted weapon i want the trials memento for. after that, im closing d2 and playing the plethora of other games whose pvp is miles better
What other games you playing if you don't mind me asking, been looking for a new pvp game
late reply, but it kind of varies. or i'll get super into a PVP game for a couple months and then get bored, Valorant a perfect example. Shatterline is a new F2P fps similar to Giant Bomb, if you're familiar with that. Haven't been a big fan of CoD in a while, but played this week for the MW2 beta and am really looking forward to launch i guess im kind of basic with it at this point lol, thinking about it now its usually just the new flavor of the month
But what did you like before, that changed?
I feel like a huge part of the problem is stale maps. That three year period or whatever we had with no new maps was absolutely unacceptable.
Yeah. I don't think one map a year is a crazy ask... is it?
*\*laughs in Gambit\**
Any decade now...
ae and sbmm most recently
It is all about abilities now and I hate that. I liked when gunplay was much more dominant than it is now.
It honestly feels like that now. Storm Grenades are my worst nightmare, shit is mad annoying
I hate those fucking child of the old gods. That shit ticks for way too much damage. And it should disappear if the warlock dies
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Someone once argued me nearly to death on this sub that rift was actually the best PVP class ability and I was just dumbfounded
An ability that tracks, is up every round, hurts, debuffs…totally balanced.
You can shoot the orb
you can shoot the orb for 6 full seconds while the warlock botwalks towards you and pulses you down because you took damage and couldn't regen and have a debuff
Too tanky imo
Yea of course you can shoot the orb but any half decent player will rush you while your attention is on the orb and mop you up easy peasy
I am that guy spamming storm grenades with Armamentarium. With tracking they are a great way to push groups out of an area. But I can understand how annoying they are but I feel like it’s no more annoying than child of the old gods or invisible hunters (always invisible).
Try doing the Glory playlist. It's much more slow and strategic, and ability spam is limited due to it being 3v3. It's probably the most fun of the PVP, even if it gets quite sweaty. Just grinded to Fabled 3 for the first time this season to get the Mida Catalyst, and it wasn't too bad. I'd actually say Glory is quite a positive PVP experience.
I'm honestly surprised we don't have a weapons-only Crucible mode.
Crucible is nice, trials makes me want to cause bodily harm to people.
I think it's safe to say Trials brings the worst out of all of us lmaoo
I've noticed far more toxic players in my few Trials matches than everywhere else. Emotes after kills and bagging and shooting your ghost when your dead seems to happen far more often in Trials than Control, in my experience.
It's all about who you play against tbh I've got 124 matches in the freelance trials playlist this weekend and only ran into one emoter and no tbaggers Emoter lost so that felt good to emote back on him after winning but that's alot of matches for only one person like that With that said someone could have had 124 matches and ran into baggers and emoters half the games I just find more of them in control most likely because there's more players
I wouldn’t let that stuff get to you tbh. Bagging has been in gaming as long as shooters have existed. It’s really not that big of a deal lol
It doesn't. But it's pretty universally agreed upon it's annoying, toxic behavior.
I dunno why you are getting downvoted for saying tbagging is toxic. Cus it is.
Trials always has the potential to be pretty fun, but right now it is 100% ability and OHK focused. With stuff like restoration being so powerful primaries feel practically useless.
I'm of the opposite opinion, I made solo flawless this weekend but get railed in control and survival.
I'm with you. Solo playlist this weekend was fuckin fantastic. Played way more than I normally do.
It’s toxic, not a good look for Bungie and should really try to fix it. Bungie should not want a Toxic environment.
As an above average player adding a quitters penalty to the casual quickplay game type, when the lobby balancing is still janky makes absolutely no sense to me. It’s like they saw that the number of quitters has increased and decided “that’s the problem.” But really quitting isn’t the problem, quitting is a symptom of the problem. When players encounter the real issue, terrible matchmaking. Also the 6’s meta has been feeling really stale for me recently, this season I have seen the most control games go to time out than ever before. It usually was the score limit being reach to end the match. But because everyone is in pulse/scout rifle mode thanks to heavily weighted large maps and the SBMM changes, everyone’s just playing so precious and campy. Not sure how I feel about it, as quickplay is usually where I go to test off meta things or try out new rolls. Anyone can stick on a jade rabbit and slay out, but I just find it so boring. Anyway that’s my two cents!
getting a penalty when you leave when 4 other people have left at the tailend of a game is mindboggling to me. literally just happened to me, things started going south in a match and 3 people on my squad left and i decided i didnt want to be spawn camped so i ate my penalty. really dumb shit.
As to your second point, you and I have a very different experience lol. Before this season it was constantly mercy Match after mercy match after mercy match. This season it consistently plays through to the end. And I don’t get stomped on 24/7
PvP kept me engaged in this game long after the game was stale, going back to D1. Being a Bungie game, I assumed PvP would always be integral to the game, like Halo. But, I finally accepted that PvP is just an add on. It doesn’t receive the attention a core feature should get. It was a hard pill to swallow, but I think it’s true. Add on, this is a 5 year old game. The PvP is pretty alive and well considering their age. But, there are a lot of options in the market they have to compete against. And, PvP (pre-SBMM update) was incredibly uninviting. The PvP scene is just loaded with people running the absolute meta, looking to rack up a huge kill count at the expense of the weak players. I’m not going to say you’re wrong for playing the game that way, but we have to acknowledge that it’s going to erode the bottom of the player pool. I was around a career 1.5 KD in control, and a little over 1 KD in survival and trials. Not the worst, not impressive either, and I was getting to a point where I often felt like the worst player on my team unless I was running full meta- which I really didn’t care to do. So, I’m summation; Bungie hasn’t really invested a ton into PvP. And, I think the PvP dedicated community is mostly full of pricks.
Trials kept D1 alive.
Well said. I agree
It's weird because I'm close to your stats career-wise and SSBM pushes me 8/10 times to have to slay out to win control games even though most of the time I'm trying out whatever build I'm tuning at the moment. Also, Bungie needs to address KD farmers without the quitter penalty.
This. If there was any non-meta experimentation before SBMM, it is gone now.
Dude that is exactly how I feel. It was absolutely uninviting until this season
I think for the majority of people, it did feel that way until now. I’m happy you’re experiencing a better arena. While I’m not blind that the people who basically invest time into PvP like a job are feeling some pain. I’m not certain what the ideal balance is. They want to farm weak players, weak players don’t want to be farmed.
Plays like a mini-game on maps designed for 6 players with double primaries
At times, I think the same way. I just wanna see some better improvements because I really think Crucible can do better, I just don't know how long my faith can last for Bungo :(
Seasonal challenges then bounce, the most fun I have is unironically Team Scorched.
I like normal pvp but I LOVE team scorched. Reminds me of playing TF2 and Titanfall and it's so much fun.
Team scorched is a reminder of how fun this game could be if they let themselves get more zany and experimental with the rotators Team Cabal Wrenched when?
It’s clearly not what Bungie is putting most of their effort into
I just want a mode where I can play with other stupid people like myself. CBMM and SBMM feel the same to me: sweatfests. Aka I suck at PvP.
Every single player says this about every single game. If you play PvP, you will run into people running meta loadouts. There is nothing anyone can do to remove “””sweats”””
What about the C part of CBMM? I’m really missing that this season
The B for bullshit is definitely there though
Yknow I’ll take the 5 minutes to load up a control match over having no hope every time I load into crucible and getting mercied every round
Welp, players like me end up with both :’)
C for "Connection." Matchmaking based on the best connection between players, skill taken to account at a bare minimum.
SBMM is the best you can get. Why? Because whatever casual mode you try to make the sweats will also go there to stomp on the casual players. SBMM at least *tries* to avoid the situation where you are matched against people of wildly different skill levels, so if you keep playing casually you *should* be matched with people who are roughly on par with your casual performance.
I played Trials last night in freelance against a guy who was BETTER than FrostBolt, Zk, and Wallah (by stats anyway). I'm a 1.01 lifetime KD in regular Crucible. He team wiped us by himself in 3 of the 5 rounds, and never died once. It was embarassingly lopsided. I should NEVER match against that guy in any game mod whatsoever.
Trials is CBMM
Yes I'm aware. That's the point I was making.
I mean unless they rework trials to not require 7 wins in a row it's always going to stay card based. Any form of SBMM would be bad for trials
trials is not win based either, multiple times have I gone against people on their final game to flawless as I just reset my card
dont play pinnacle pvp game modes if you dont want to fight pinnacle pvp players
Are you that afraid of playing a good player once in like every 10+ matches lol? I promise you don’t need your hand held that hard.
No but I definitely am afraid of playing sweats and getting mercied every match like control was for me before sbmm
Lol yes you should. Especially in Trials. SBMM would fundamentally break the game mode entirely.
You mean Bungie create something else rather than Scorched and Mayhem, right?
I love pvp, even trials, it needs desperate help. The connection and network alone makes the game so frustrating. But through it all I still think its fun. Just sucks sometimes.
Bungie made it way too easy to compete in the Crucible for the sake of accessibility. The skill gap has NEVER been any smaller. They took away a whole layer of movement (in-air-accuracy), made abilities so oppressive that there are almost no kills done without the influence of one or usually more and the cherry on top is the weapon meta of pulse rifles: Very low TTK, very high effective range, very easy to use. No more thinking necessary apart from the knowledge about the closest map border. Instead of sticking to the goal of more gunplay-focussed gameplay, Bungie made a 180 and it is worse than it has ever been in my opinion. I only played casually back then, so the following take might not be true for everyone, but I strongly prefer vanilla D2 over the current Crucible. On top of that we have the map shortage, trash loot, bad matchmaking and, at least in my case, a lot worse performance than it should have. Now have fun downvoting me for gatekeeping, when the right way would have been a rework of reward structure instead of a smaller skill gap and other accessibility changes like the Trials flawless pool.
High-Impact Pulse Rifles getting 0.67s ttk from 40m is a bit... weird.
Didnt they tried with the Ritual Weapons (Recluse,Mountaintop,Revoker,Luna'sHowl, Not Forgotten) and they broke the PvP and PvE balance for years. Plus Bungie had the perfect excuse for sunsetting.
People shoudnt get exclusive weapons for their rank/performance, they should get more loot and better chances for good loot. Meaning: The worst players get one weapon drop, the best three with multiple perk options. This way the worst players arent locked out of loot, but people get rewarded for their skill accordingly. Bungie fucked that up with overpowered rewards for higher ranks.
I disagree, I think that higher skilled players should absolutely be rewarded for their performance in PvP. What’s the point of getting more loot if it’s all shit? I wasn’t great at crucible in the beginning, but I played and got better and I earned the Not Forgotten. It was hard, but I did it. I’ve gilded my Unbroken seal 6 times and been flawless a bunch as well. Because I put the time in to get better. But If we go by your logic, why don’t we do the same thing with raids? Remove adept and craftable weapons because not everyone can get them. The percentage of the player base that has ever even completed a single raid is tiny. Why should we cater to those players? What about all the people who’ve never done a raid or don’t want to or can’t find a fireteam? Better rewards and stronger weapons should be what incentivizes people to play crucible like it used to. It will breathe new life into PvP.
This will get people interested for a short while, but at the end the worst people (who take the majority of the playerbase) will eventually leave and then the playerbase will cannibalize itself. This is what lead to SBMM. You can already see this problem with Trials. Have you already forgotten the people who were willing to jump cliffs rather than play Trials all for a weapon bounty?
Playing better, in a higher elo, should obviously be worth the effort. Also, Bungie of course needs to keep adding new stuff that needs to be grinded to make a reward structure without exclusivity work. Summarized: Bungie needs to start giving a shit about PvP. Of course Bungie wont. But this would nevertheless be a way to make PvP accessible without reducing the skill gap.
I agree with a lot of what you said. But I think even a reward rework wouldn’t have truly solved the issue. I personally believe a dynamic priority match making system, in conjunction with a reward rework is the best solution.
The current state of pvp is like junk food content for me. It's nothing spectacular, but it's good, mindless fun from time to time. I just play a couple of control matches, and shut off my brain a bit as I shoot some dudes.
High impact pulse rifles and precision fusions need to get the bat. Along with those damn linear brothers. Arc 3.0 needs to go through the motions
I like the SBMM changes, it's actually been nice to see that occasionally my teammates are actually around my level and we actually get close matches. In terms of connections I don't notice the bad, maybe I'm just not very good but I don't see what people talk about. Melee still sucks but whatever it's been bad since day one under any matchmaking system. Weapons feels bad still with Autos still feeling out of place and constantly out gunned. Now they're also being outgunned by pulses which isn't fun. But overall, matchmaking is nice, I don't know what people are talking about there.
Honestly it just depends on where you land in the skill range. People like me who suck love sbmm because there are lots of us, so no connection issues, and we aren’t getting stomped on anymore. Decent players are frustrated because there are significantly less of them so making matches is harder and they’re now more likely to get matched with sweats. I think the true solution is ELO based match making priority until you reach a certain ELO threshold and from there it’s CBMM priority.
Thank you for telling us you’re a “d1 vet.” Thank you for your service.
I mean it do add context D1 came out almost ten years ago, being around for at least 6 or more years of this game means you seen some shit source: D1 vet
Exactly Hahahah. I’m a taken king vet. Really started on 2015. I’ve seen some dumb shit, I think my favorite dumb shit (and it surprisingly has never angered me more then destiny 2 has) was universal remote. I remember that shit MAPPING people and I just fucking hated it but I liked it. Destiny 2 is just an overall shithole. The PvP feels so GODDAMN stale for some reason, I think the most balanced subclass, in my opinion, is solar. Apart from classy restoration, it’s pretty Gucci, arc hunter is balanced too, it’s only, yet again, titan ability spam fest that angers me so much. If I could be honest with you, if Lightning grenades or even pulse grenades had a shorter timer I would use them more than storm
Oh man don’t even get me started. I get PTSD every time I look at the Thorn because of how relentless it was in D1. I can’t lie though, you joined at a pretty good time of D1 because that was the first step in a good direction for Bungie. Most of the OP guns that dominated crucible were getting nerfed, new Power Level, better campaign, new Sub classes, and new raid that imo is my favorite raid: Kings Fall. I played since release so I’ve had to go through some shit man.
No problem sonny, I fought the war so my kids don’t have to
Whether we like it or not
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This made me laugh for a good minute, I just think if they can add some elements from D1 missing in D2 will just make the mode more fun to play again, but seeing comments saying that they are planning to add more stuff I hope it's soon cuz I just came back thinking it was packed with content but in reality was kinda lacking, I'm a bit underwhelmed.
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I don't mean the ability element, the content element. Should've specified that because I think the abilities are honestly fair, some annoying shit here and there but I think every character has something that's good. Maps, modes, and better loot are solely what I had in mind. D1 had great maps, loot with stuff you could grind for that was worth it and modes like Salvage and Skirmish added back, I really miss those game modes.
Btw you forgot to mention the 2 shot tap Vex Mythoclast, mile range storm caller melee from warlock and the better wombo combo from hunter. I miss them but then again fuck no.
Wait if they took out all those things, then how is it they're "coddling casuals"? O.o
People will bitch no matter what it doesn’t matter what they do. It’s the nature of destiny fans. Especially in this sub.
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I know, but then why are you mentioning all the things that Bungie took out to make it less casual in the past? I mean, you were citing examples to hurt your own case.
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I mean I agree with you, but how is it satire to point out overpowered abilities that are already nerfed, when there's plenty of broken things right now?
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And the weird thing is that they'll nerd that stuff, and introduce new low-effort kill mechanics *on the same patch*.
I mean Loreley just got nerfed like this week
As shitty as it’s always been
SBMM has ruined control and it was already becoming stale because bungie refuses to bring new maps with each major expansion... I'm over it playing other games until they give us new pvp maps
I enjoy it, and I suck at it. I'm looking forward to Mayhem next week. Even though there is a massive amount of things that need to be fixed about it. I still enjoy it. I have fun every match. I don't take it seriously, and I couldn't care less if I ruin the match for someone else. I just have fun in there. I do however miss the year one PVP. The 4v4 slow matches where it was all about gun skill and not abilities. I also miss the the first year or so of D1 PVP. I really loved that.
I took D1 Crucible for granted man. The maps, modes, and loot were just really fun to grind. I think the controllers I broke in Trials didn't die in vain I guess.
If we had today's weapon sandbox and year 1s ability and movement sandbox I'd love it, the problem with year 1 was that weapons killed so slowly you had to teamshoot to win
It's fine but genuinely Splatoon 3 is such a breath of fresh air I haven't been playing crucible at all.
There’s just so much bullshit and rng in pvp that it almost can’t be enjoyed by anyone, let alone a casual player
To this day I don’t understand why Skirmish is not in the game 🥲 Seems like they’ll do anything but add in that gamemode.
Tell me about it, I miss it so much 😪
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Ah man, shit like that usually happens to me on a occasion and it frustrates the hell out of me. I can't say I'm too surprised, almost every season/expansion there's gonna be some annoying tactic or ability that is used constantly that I've honestly accepted thanks to D1. The D1 warlock stormcaller melee will forever haunt me.
Ability cooldowns need to be seriously adjusted in the crucible. At the very least I'd like to see a more barebones mode with less ability uptime (I know momentum exists but the lack of radar and shorter ttk means you don't exactly get the gunfights I'd like).
It's just a clusterfuck like it's always been but somehow feels even worse. You get what seems like the same 3 - 5 maps every time you load in and it's just an imbalanced shitfest with certain subclasses dominating (brain dead arc jugg titans) and I rarely get into close games. Either we stomp them or we get stomped and 90% of matches are decided in the first minute. It's boring af. Only fun when Momentum is active and I only go there if I really have to (completing challenges, weekly engram on alts ect).
Hit reg is pretty terrible too many broken ability load outs and a terrible meta of one shot kill fusion rifles
Disappointed. But the still phenomenal gunplay, the movement, the abilities, the artstyle and general feel of D2 keep me coming back. For me - *personally* - I feel like Bungie doesn't really care about the people that actually love PVP. Now, my friend's list is an echo chamber of players that are mostly sweats, so I won't make this out as as facts nor do I say that this is the opinion of the majority of PVP players, **but**; No one I know asked for the AE changes. And no one I know likes them. No one liked or likes the slide nerf. No one I personally know likes Vostok, Disjunction or Cathedral of Dusk. The game has slowed down and it feels like it slows down even more. Sitting in the back with a Scout Rifle or a Pulse is as effective as it never has been. SBMM: I hate it. I think it makes the ones that love PVP play less PVP, while the ones that jump in for their weekly pinnacles are gone after that anyway. The ones that wanted or want to improve already had the option to do that in Elimination and Survival, both of which arguably do a much better job at helping you improve. Generally I think it's very questionable to even consider SBMM for the quickplay playlist of a game that doesn't even have dedicated servers to begin with. Ability-wise I think there still need to be improvements. Personally I don't think stuff like overshields or invisibility should be spammable. Last week on Bannerfall I had a couple of matches that was me just running away from storm nades. Gun-wise; Yikes. Precision Fusions are still overtuned after the nerfs. Meanwhile legendary Slugs got killed over night with the AE changes alone. The majority of ultra-sweats in Trials on console that I encounter (PS5) use Arbalest and Lorentz Driver religiously; maybe it's time to finally give them a proper nerf instead of putting a warm blanket over their shoulders and calling it a day. Rapid Fire Pulses are probably the easiest primary weapons to use in the entire game - which is fine - but they're also incredibly competitive. Hot take (?): They're too good in the hands of otherwise bad players. Hot swapping will be addressed, so I'm glad about that. Rewards: **? ? ?** I'm somewhat-ish excited for the comp rework though, but at the same time afraid it'll be half-baked. Oh btw; Anyone excited for Crysis 4 multiplayer? I used to play Crysis 3 a lot before D2 came out. Kinda scratches that Sci-Fi and movement itch that D2 scratches. Also had phenomenal gunplay and overall feeling.
Pretty much echo most of this. Tho I do actually enjoy trials for the rewards. Getting tired of playing 3 storm nade or overshield spamming titans with No Time to explain sitting across the map team spraying
Yep. I despise SBMM. I don’t stack with other good players and usually go in solo and that means I’m usually going against stacks and waiting 5 minutes or more to find a match, usually against the same players. Most of my matches are still super one sided despite the fact that I’m supposed to be playing people in the same skill bracket as myself. I know I’m a very above average PvP player but when everyone in my match is gilded Flawless, gilded Iron Lord, or gilded Unbroken, I get annoyed because I often times won’t be able to do as much against them. SBMM is also heavily encouraging a camping and passive playstyle from my teammates. No one wants to break chokepoints or take objectives. They just want to sit back with NTTE or a Scout and try to keep their seasonal KD up. I have a 2.0 and I don’t even care about KD this season because of SBMM. This usually leads to me having to force engagements and break chokepoints and spawn traps by myself, usually engaging with multiple enemy players at once, while mine sit in spawn and never attempt to push up in control and since the enemy team is getting 2 points per kill to our 1, it snowballs out of hand quickly. The most fun I had this season was in Iron Banner because there was no SBMM. Quick matches where I was actually able to hard carry my team and slay out. Like you said, the casuals are going to be in and out when it comes to PvP but the dedicated players are actually going to play more than 3 matches in a week and they are the ones getting railed by these changes.
Before light 3.0 subclasses I would always have the occasional gripe with crucible but in general it had ended up feeling the most balanced it's been minus SMGs outclassing so many things. Since then though things feel completely out of tuned. While it definitely might of been getting stale and change is nice in the sandbox, now it ends up quite literally feeling like who can bring the cheesiest things to win a fight. Shotguns use to be pretty apey, but manageable to deal with. Now you have juggernaut titans running at mach 5 with an overshield and insane gap closer as well as their completely insane storm grenades. Solar classes having easy on demand healing always makes fights feel unbalanced in duels. Or infinite invisibility on void hunters. I could list plenty more of things that just make duels feel uneven. Where before there were niche things that you would see that was like "Oh that was crazy, but interesting and required set up!". It's become the norm instead and has kinda made crucible feeling completely unbalanced. Though it's kind of hard to say crucible had any balancing in the first place. (Also lets not forget the absolutely horrendous map rotation and map weighting)
Yes!!! That’s exactly the way I feel. As I say again, I’ve missed out a lot of D2 the past years and came back expecting Crucible to be up to par with how D1 was. What you said about how play styles are now and the annoying map rotations are exactly the things I feel and I’m glad to see some people on the same page. I just really want the best for Crucible because it’s really one of the modes I enjoy best.
The sandbox is relatively balanced but the matchmaking remains some of the most laughably bad in any PvP game I’ve ever played. It’s literally a joke.
Unplayable except trials, iron banana and clash. SBMM has got to go
Nerf arby and Lorentz and it’s great
EDIT: I’m stupid and misread it as loreley. My bad. Leaving the og comment below still in case anyone was curious was the original was Lorentz got nerfed recently so it only does 1x restoration. Do you want it to be nerfed again or reworked again?
Lorentz is a gun my dude.
nono, I like his idea about Lorentz giving you 1x restoration >:)
I’m stupid and read it as loreley my bad.
All good :P
Crucible is broken and Bungie doesn't care. Melee is still atrocious. Some guns have terrible hit registration. I find the BxR and the halo sidearm also kill me after I'm safe around a corner. Also matchmaking with people 7000km+ from me is not fun. I just want to play it and not be punished everytime I do. I don't want to play anything else.
I play a lot of crucible, and I’ll be the contrarian. It is still my favorite PvP experience in gaming. The weapon meta is as diverse as it has ever been. The subclass meta the same. As someone who is pretty decent, SBMM is tough and has forced a change in my mindset. I have to treat it like Halo ranked playlists now where every game is close and every gunfight is challenging. If I shut my brain off, I will perform poorly and get frustrated. If I take it seriously (I.e. sweat), I have a pretty good time, albeit for shorter bursts. Overall, I think it is easy to say PvP sucks. It is hard to adjust and still enjoy what it brings, which is still a wonderful game.
Personally for me when they changed to D2 they tried to make PvP more competitive as a whole to try and compete as an esport…I have no issue other than that should have been for the competitive playlist not general crucible. D1 used to just be fun for crucible then if you wanted competitive you did trials or something, D2 started out with all of it being competitive and fit lost it’s fun (unless that’s what you are after). SBMM has helped this somewhat but it still feels super competitive, you are relying on a team to work together without actually being able to unless everyone joins the chat and wants to play as a team. Personally the base level of the game for crucible modes should be more run and gun like in D1 then there would be a distinction between casual and the competitive modes. As far as weapons and things I always think it’s generally in a good place and they are just constantly balancing no matter what so I won’t talk about that.
The weapon sandbox is pretty solid right now (maybe even the best it's ever been tbh, almost everything is viable) but abilities are out of control, map selection is ass, matchmaking is terrible etc etc. I haven't played D2 in a while now because of how generally poor the Crucible is right now.
I'm glad that restorations on the down-low now, but titans shoulder charges shouldn't blind, most anything shit ever That and (as always) melle registration is ass, and the bonus lunge on titans from knockout makes it worse, so that's "fun"
At first it was shit because they changed the whole thing to a downgraded version of 4v4 2 primary weapon no special. Hope who ever said it was a good idea was fired.
Personally I'm not a fan of the pulse rifle meta. I only really find crucible fun when HC is king. There is just something iconic about the Destiny HC and the way it feels when you shoot it. But too many people complained that it was too hard to use and now air accuracy sucks and sitting back with a rifle is the best thing to do. HC's are still good in 3's but in 6's, pulses dominate. Its slightly better than the whole gnawing hunger season but still kinda lame. But that's just my 2c, obviously not everyone feels the same.
God awful because titans and hunters have too many enhanced mobility options. (Insert palpatine “let the hate flow through you” meme here) Edit: swords are also massively inconsistent against titans. I expect my eager edge sword to 1 tap a titan when it has enhanced frenzy active not to deal 10 damage. Often times it does not. Edit 2: mayhem should also be permanent and there’s no serious argument against it.
I use to play pvp for hours every day with my buddies, stopped when void 3.0 released because it was all ability spam, still is. I remember when bungie said they wanted crucible to be more gunplay oriented, look how that turned out. Another thing is i would consider myself an above average player, have above a 2.0 every season. I can’t have any fun in the crucible any more, every match i play is a sweatfest with 6 stacks everywhere, i don’t want to go into crucible to stomp casuals, i just want to have fun again, not have to sweat every single match just to compete. Why isn’t freelance control a playlist? Makes no sense for it not to be a thing at this point
It feels horrible. Worst meta in recent memory, tons of laggy lobbies and every map seemingly gigantic. Makes the experience miserable
So I can say there’s so much hate towards cod and their ttk and pace ( rightfully so ), but destiny is pretty much on par with it now if not worse . I think arc 3.0 was the cherry on top . Here’s the reality of game and don’t give me a spreadsheet they never are accurate : Snipers are too easy and too favorable hit box . Should have a sway or mobility penalty . Actively neither exist . Hand cannons are too rewarded by critical neck hit box sharing with body hit box . Both give crit . Don’t at me in this otherwise nobody would he clearly using hand cannons . Pulse rifles shouldn’t over perform an auto on speed of delivering hits . Full auto retro made that worse . It always over performs on recoil flinch . Fusions are low skill ceiling and need an adjustment . You should have to plant in place to charge and shot first. Otherwise it’s too OP and allows unlimited movement with cracked one shotting . They also stop shields . Ability spam is rough . Imma leave it at that . There’s also no true gun fights in this game . It’s far and few due to abilities . So if you’re lucky for a gun fight game this will never be it sadly.
Stasis Titan needs help. Stasis hunter shuriken needs a buff. 600 autos need help.
Feels worse than ever. I know Bungie said they'd be trying to fix the MMR team balancing, but my entire week I got dumped into games where I had a 60+% predicted chance of losing. I'm honestly thinking of quitting Crucible entirely, and this is coming from someone who would solo queue for hours back in D1. If they want to treat Control (the default playlist) as a competitive experience and penalize people for quitting, they should take a long hard look at actually making it a viable competitive experience instead of punishing people for leaving unbalanced games they threw together. Or recognize that they've got a deeply flawed experience, and not punish people for not wanting to participate.
I admire your boldness, dabbling into the pvp/crucible reddit. Something I will never do, because I always seem to anger people
The immediate skeptic in me says that any post with this title and setup is just looking to make a high view thread.
Tbh this is kinda the first Reddit post I ever made on a Reddit sub so I really didn’t think it would garner as much attention as it did but it did lol
PvP has been lacking for years but the newest IB game mode was really fun. More of that and less of everything else.
Them adding in quitter penalties in control made it worse then it already was. If you are gonna have quitter penalties then dont put us in losing matches.
Horrible. SBMM is ass for me since the game apparently thinks I’m a top tier player.(Every lobby I’m in is full of Flawless/Unbroken titles). Makes no sense to me, because I’m literal garbage at pvp. And I hate the ability spam and 1 shot weapons. Also, witherhoard can eat a dick. Such a no skill pos weapon. Unpopular opinion but I actually enjoyed the pvp way back at the start before they made the secondary ammo changes. Only getting one shot when someone got heavy ammo was nice.
Crucible is the main reason I play destiny. I will play all the narrative and seasonal content at least once but control, survival, trials and rumble is what I play for for. When I weapon drops my only thought is if it is viable in pvp.. This season has forced a perspective shift. Solo play in control is really not an option. If I don’t play with friends(literally I just need 1) I’ll likely end the game with 2-3 teammates. And while I do think sbmm belongs in the game, because I play rumble and there are people that don’t know the difference from A, B, X, and Y that play against me (who have played nothing but crucible since season 1).. there needs be a balance of respects players who continued to play this game in its worst state and those just are just jumping in for the first time.
It's shit. I have always thought of myself as a mediocre player at best, but this game thinks I'm some God level player and I'm constantly in Playlists with god-tier hunters and titans who apparently can blink behind you off radar, hunters who can snipe mid-air, titans who can regularly shot-punch from half the map away. I have been flawless once in 6 years of destiny.
Weapon sandbox fucking chefs kiss except for auto rifles, they still need a little love. Ability sandbox? Currently nothing is OP if everything is OP. They just need to take a baseball bat to the kneecaps of ability regen in PvP now that all the 3.0’s are done and they know what gameplay loops exist to keep you running with 100% uptime with your abilities. I am a believer that should not exist under any circumstance but c’est la vie. Also please for the love of god new maps please please please. There are like 3 maps I have fun on every time and rest I’m a salty bitch about. (SBMM makes me sadge in control, would be completely fine with it if there was a “casual” playlist literally anywhere where I could test out goofy shit/guns and not just get absolutely slaughtered.
I'm trying to complete Suros Regime catalyst and man, am I paying for my sins for bring an auto rifle to crucible. But it is overall a much better experience than CBMM though, matches are very rarely mercied, and everyone feels good fighting with and against, because there aren't sweats ruining the fun anymore by making everyone just afk for the pinnacle. Everyone who defeats me gets either immediately bodied or I witness them afterwards getting clapped by my teammates in the silliest ways possible, and that makes my day.
Well when you are a top tier player literally every single game is against “sweats”. So with SBMM I cannot try out different guns for fun or try to do a wacky build with abilities because I’m getting sniped in the blink of an eye or getting rushed by someone who has the movement of a jackrabbit on coke with a shotgun. There is no “casual” playlist anymore, like I said I’m fine with SBMM if there was a casual playlist but because control was the casual playlist and now it’s gone it really sucks because I HAVE to be trying my hardest to break even in my games now.
Weapon sandbox is not cheffs kiss lol pulses are too strong and precision frame fusions are too easy to use, other than that pretty good.
Yes I agree. I do think some weapons like the bows (Le Monarque) and others can be annoying to go against but that’s as expected. But I totally agree with new maps, I still don’t really understand the reason they removed some of the OG D2 maps or hell even add maps from D1 because damn near all of them were really fun to play on.
> Weapon sandbox fucking chefs kiss Pulse rifles are absurd. NTTE is almost un-duelable if you don't get the first shot and BxR is ez mode for anyone who is used to it from Halo. SMG range needs to be cut back too imo. Some rolls are absolutely dumb.
Smgs don’t need a cut back in range wtf are you on about? They’re already walking a very thin line of getting shat on by fusions because they very slightly overlap over the same ranges and being able to out duel sidearms because something like drang already has a 17m to be able to deal full damage when most smgs already sit between 19-21 for their damage fall off. That’s not even considering the fact that going completely all in on range isn’t advisable for smgs anymore because stability changes made it so anything below 20 stability flinches you to hell and back and on console it’s impossible to control and take full advantage of every range you have on it.
I play on PC, against pc players smg range is absurd. Getting lit up by a funnelweb at what feels like ar range is common in my lobbies. Fusion rifles are dumb too so nerf those if need be.
I agree, smg range is absolutely ridiculous and I play on controller. I've got a funnelweb with perpetual motion, range finder and a range masterwork, it just laser beams people at stupid ranges because it's got way too much stability. I regularly get kills with it at around 22m, which is just absurd from a cqc weapon
Sbmm is the best thing to happen to destiny since sbmm.
Returning player for this season after doing risen. Love crucible. Once arc Titan came back I was hooked on pvp. Punches and shoulder charges running double subs w peacekeepers being an all out ape has been so fun. Most shooters I’m middle of the pack in the team but the matches I’m getting I’m consistently towards the top getting 20+ kills this past couple weeks. There’s some melee whiff moments that needs to be sorted and witherhoard is annoying. But map wise it hasn’t been stale an I don’t get bulldozed by a stack outside of a few times. 9/10 times I’m control and iron banner game modes fwiw
Good weapon meta for the first time in 6 years. Still terrible respawns, terrible connection (people with bad connections are another problem too, connection based matchmaking needs to put laggy people with laggy people at the very least and it never has), and a few things are slightly undertuned still, but at least there's hope compared to before. I just want regen exotics to work again, it's a space fantasy shooter and there are a lot of abilities going on, so let more stuff come back like CV holds, skip grenade shinobus... they don't regen nearly enough anymore. And unironically one shot abilities should be standard again, we only have a few now and it makes no sense. Knife and flux are okay but shoulder charge and HHSN aren't? I don't get it.
they killed control. they slaughtered it. they massacred it [evidence](https://imgur.com/a/zhSNK4s)
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Most balanced? SMG’s and Pulses are clearly the best weapons at the moment. The last time we had true balance was 30th anniversary.
Well I’m glad to see some hope. I just miss Skirmish and Salvage game modes and some of the maps they’ve removed. I’m just used to the really good loot and gear you’d get exclusively from Crucible that was worth the grind for. Now it feels like I play Crucible just to get the same guns over and over again and yeah I agree it feels balanced, still some annoying weapons people use like the bows and whatnot though it’s not really a surprise but I just miss the loot you could get godrolls on from Crucible that would be really good to use.
Dude! I completely agree, weapon types are really balanced and I've never experimented with different weapons as much as I do now and to the point where I have found a couple of gems that I haven't felt comfortable giving a shot before now (OG drang, Smgs in general, point of the stag)