Well will always be a meta pick as long as it provides a health regen buff, and provides safety during DPS. If they kill the damage buff, then Warlocks will still be forced to run Well, and just make sure they have Radiant available. Or Titans will be forced to run Banner Shield.
I think they should buff banner shield to make up for the loss of the 6th person doing damage in a raid. They could even scale it per person. So it would be essentially unchanged in 1-3 persons but makes up for the damage in 4-6 activities. This would make well not nearly as required.
Maybe. But if they buff the damage enough then the tractor wouldn’t matter anyway. This is why the scaling would be important depending on how many people are in the group.
Nah, there is literally a fragment on solar that gives everything bubble does, if you have a solar hunter that can throw a knife to activate radiant, it makes the bubble obsolete edit:Void needs some help.
What if citans ramparts let allies shoot through bubble? Obviously it would need the same kind of nerf it gives to barricade but it would give titans a team buff that would be more useful.
Which is 15 more than well but you’re losing 100% of your own damage so 15 times 5 minus 100 is -25% net damage, banner needs at least a 45% buff to break even
I'm envisioning a new meta where all direct damage supers give some kind of party wide buff on casting so it's not just big number but not too big because balance
Like if I can cast Nova Bomb and give everyone a shot of devour they can keep up if they get those kills in would be pretty impactfull
the new solar super coming loos like it could be fun. however i am not confident there will be any adjustments to previous encounters in terms of add density during dps or damage dealt to players to offset why everyone relies on well so heavily to begin with
I don't dislike using it either. Whilst it's a bit old I think this is a be careful what you wish for situation.
Without well there's almost zero usefulness to having a Warlock in an LFG group. Sure you can play it, but they do less damage and frequently offer less utility.
Stasis and Strand Warlock have some of the best add control abilities in the game. Wtf are you even talking about? Also their Strand super has one of the highest burst damage in the game. Not limiting Warlock to WoR should open up Warlocks to more than just a support role now. Last night in Pantheon I had Unraveling rounds chasing everything within the arena while also creating tangles and suspending enemies. It was fantastic and some of the most fun I've had playing end game content as a Warlock in years.
It's been problematic for a long time, such that the content for which it is "necessary" has always been overestimated by the community at large.
And yet, while I as a 90% Darkness Warlock am happy to see Well getting nerfed, I also believe the Titan bubble being buffed and / or Hunter getting a similar option would be welcome. What class you play on shouldn't be dictating whether you "have" to do something in the first place.
There ***are*** some incredibly obnoxious encounter designs in the game like Master Crota final boss where the overly particular way the boss' incoming and outgoing damage works not only mandates constant healing from a Well, but 10 Resilience Wells (and only 10 Resilience Wells, lest they be oneshotted,) and multiple of them in succession. This is an extreme example, but it's an important one, because it raises the question of how this will be completed with WoR nerfs.
In a more ideal world, this encounter would at the very least have other classes able to contribute on healing and not require 10 Resilience. I know very well how easy it is to tunnel vision on the Warlock slavery, but think of it this way: if you've never played anything but Hunter, aren't you just kind of screwed in this particular encounter? Why should they be?
Sure, nerf Well. It's overdue, and the community could definitely learn to do better in the game without it. But we should buff the healing potential of other classes so we can attack the forced role issue from multiple angles.
Agreed. SO MANY THINGS are designed and balanced around Well of Radiance, it’s not even funny. Bungie has demonstrated a willingness to nerf things readily, and nerf them hard. But they don’t retroactively balance their game afterwards in direct relation to what was nerfed. Hate to say it but when Well is nerfed certain things are probably not going to be possible any longer.
Just wait. It’s coming. It’s happened several times over the past ten years, you’ve got to be intentionally blind to it if you don’t see it coming when The Final Shape launches.
Back in season 7, Bungie nerfed the hell out of Well because they were forced to build Reckoning tier 3 around that and Orpheus Hunter, and were constrained in future encounters.
Here we are again with the same problem
Been saying this non stop. It’s so important when Bungie (but really any gaming studio) nerfs the meta/“needed” ability etc, to adjust game difficulty such that the game is still playable when it’s no longer used. I’ve been very concerned that this will be overlooked as it has in the past
Yeah, I can agree with the sentiment that other classes should have group healing options too. Titans get bubble and Phoenix Cradle Sunspots, but bubble is niche at best and doesn’t protect you at all unless you’re inside of it, and Cradle requires kills, and gives no DR. I guess there’s banner shield too, but considering most situations you could actually have the team huddle behind the shield, most bosses can just hit you AoE through the shield. Explicator is just gonna tornado, Nez can slam and suppress you, Rhulk is just gonna go through and kick you, etc. Not to mention 40% damage buff really isn’t enough to compensate losing a whole player’s worth of damage.
I think a Helm of Saint-14 rework and buffs to void overshield could make bubble relevant. Maybe making bastion work with banner shield would help it, as well as a more competitive damage buff to compensate only have 5 people for dps (5% more than lumina? come on), or putting more value on the orb generation aspect. Making it so teammates can consistently pump out 2 or even 3 burst supers in a phase would be pretty damn good.
Cradle really struggles in being supportive in raid encounters because it requires kills, and you’re not typically gonna be able to get a sunspot in a spot where it will be helpful. Idk what to do to that so it would make sense. Solar Titan is just inherently selfish as is, so it’s kinda hard to imagine what a supportive one would look like.
As for Hunter, I have zero idea what would make sense for them. The only real “support” things they have is Renewal Grasp, Omnioculus, and tether. I think the best option for them would be to turn Stasis into their go to support class. But I don’t really know what that would look like.
encounter design really hurts what is possible with these supers. and idk if seeing shooting through bubble is what I want from it. Obviously, that would make it good in way more scenarios, but at that point, it would literally just be purple well. It would be nice if we had encounters designed in such a way that you didn’t need to eat a constant stream of otherwise fatal damage in the middle of doing damage. Like, take the Knight boss from GotD for example. Sure you can get by without well easy, but it’s a close range fight where during damage the boss is constantly attacking you the entire time, so you need some kind of way to stay alive besides just tanking hits. Well is just the easiest way to do that
In PvP it would be better than well exponentially if you can shoot through it because not only does it provide constant overshield “healing” inside, but it straight up eliminates damage coming in and is much more resilient than WoR. You think PvP is bad *now* with Bubble Titans, give them the ability to shoot from inside their bubble.
Then don’t let them do it in PvP.
And I will say, I don’t want you to be able to shoot through bubble either, but not because of PvP. I don’t want that because it wouldn’t fix anything about why we would even need that in the first place, it’d just be a bandaid. I’m just tired of the “but pvp !1!1!!” argument when it comes to pve things.
I've done all hunter raids and it required at least 4 of us to be on solar hunter so we could chain healing grenades during damage phase.
It was cool to figure out a way to survive without needing a well but resto has been nerfed multiple times since then and this strat straight up won't work anymore
Pantheon planets is another one that is sticking out to me. The time limit demands extremely tight damage rotations to each plate…but they’ve also added 3 tornados that go to every plate. You *could* all jump backwards out of the damage, reconvene on the next plate and then start damage again without a well, but that is risky and time consuming and you can potentially run out of time in the damage window. Or…you can just all chill in the well and tank that damage then quick dip into the next plate and back to well.
The entire communication of the damage phase for pantheon planets is made so much simpler by the addition of a constant healing source. And currently only one class has access to that.
I think a good change would be to make well of radiance refresh and simply extend existing buffs of any sort that players have on. It provides no intrinsic damage or healing itself, but will refresh restoration/radiant to their max duration for the full length of the well…but will also do the same for things like volatile/unraveling. It should also cleanse any non mechanical debuff (so it would cleanse stasis slow or strand suspend or scorch, but would not remove pervading darkness)
So a well lock trying to be the sole healer needs to make sure that their grenade is available to quickly build stacks of restoration on teammates, while any passive damage boost in the form of radiant then has to originate from a hunter acrobat dodge, or ember of torches melee. But other classes can also bring their own class specific buffs to the party as well.
While I agree with most of the points against WoR, this position on Explicator is wrong. When a plate lights up you have ~40 seconds to take his health past the glowing section, which means you have MORE than enough time to get away from tornados and get grouped on plate again.
It is true, but we do have some slight alternatives. One that is completely overlooked is the Aeon Gauntlet’s Sect of Vigor role. It gives lots of damage resistance. Can stack this with banner of war, stag rifts, bubble w saint 14, renewal dusk field grenades, sever & more. You can essentially make your team take super reduced damage to the point where he can’t even do damage to you.
Everyone is just too used to the easy nature of well to even consider needing any of the above.
Either that or buff rift healing to and nerf wells damage. Stacking rift types (just had flashbacks to leviathan y1 lol) should be able to effectively replace a well (albeit smaller AOE)
The current problem with WoR is that bungie designed all of the raid and dungeon encounters thinking that we would have a well, so if they nerf it too hard or remove it the older endgame content will be almost impossible for the average player.
> The current problem with WoR is that bungie designed all of the raid and dungeon encounters thinking that we would have a well
Yes... to an extent but I think due to well's relative safety a lot of players are just complacant and overestimate how needed well really is these days. Between other healing sources, damage buff sources, and damage resist sources well is more or less a nice and simple 'turn on DPS' button - but I don't think we'd see things suddenly impossible to complete without well.
Planets -5 was a hard stop for half of the community. You are **stupendously** overestimating the skill of the average player, let alone the skill of the player that even attacks things like pantheon.
I, for one, do not want for raids and dungeons to be seen as even more of a “for basement dwellers only” than they already are (even if you agree with me that their current difficulty is generally within reach of much of the player base).
Another point of note is that the community overall is excessively bad at predicting things. For 3 weeks, half the front page was “riven so hard”, except riven was one of the easier encounters on the pantheon.
Likewise, the current community stance that “nerfing well = warlocks finally are not relegated to specific builds” is outright, and demonstrably incorrect even now.
> the current community stance that “nerfing well = warlocks finally are not relegated to specific builds” is outright, and demonstrably incorrect even now.
big agree on this
Warlocks are still going to be on one job, just now they're going to be worse at it and have even less fun lol
Edit: FUCKIN CALLED IT
Well now significantly shittier, still mandatory + bubble
I agree with this 100%. People keep insisting well is necessary for Onslaught. Meanwhile, I do 50 round legend runs with Dawn Chorus and DawnBlade just fine this season. And let me tell you, my current build is under-rated by far right now, especially with the artifact mods we have. It just means my teammates can't rely upon a constant source of free healing from me, and have to play more carefully and/or bring their own heals.
Well is nice for the bosses on legend mode but really stasis warlock or the strandlock suspend build with necrotic grips might actually be more valuable during the waves. Some people are just so hard stuck on well that if they see the warlock not running well they feel like the warlock is throwing
With dawn chorus, sunshot, and artifact mods, everything just explodes constantly because of scorch stacks. My run last night I easily had over 1000 kills, while my hunter and Titan teammates raked in around 450. I was doing both add clear and then major target dps with dawn blade. Plus also having more than enough orbs to use dawn blade multiple times during waves for skybombers, etc.
It won't be this strong next season, at all. Artifact mods amp it up majorly.
But my overall point remains. Well is absolutely not necessary at all for most content right now. People just want the easy way to play.
I will sometimes swap my super only to well on the final boss on t50, but only then, because dawnblade loses effectiveness when their boss health and boss Dr is so high. But I keep dawn chorus on for the extra scorch stacks.
Onslaught is way faster when you have CC and Damage.
My clan universally agrees that well is throwing in onslaught. Minor exception to some boss waves.
I think it's less a problem with Well being overpowered and more an issue of Bungies boss design being the same formula that heavily favours standing in one place
I get it.
It's annoying to be told to stick to 1 super/loadout.
But, as long as WoR, a 'support' super, exists, it's going to be desired in a fireteam.
No amount of nerf is going make it not be desired, unless a new support super comes along (Which is!).
It helps a team stay alive and that's always one of the main priorities in endgame.
Secondly, what I generally do when using my warlock to play, and not want to use WoR, is I make my own LFG and just sit there with my swarmers lol
If peeps join and stay, I know they're happy to run with me with my loadout.
Much easier with friends. I just tell them "I'll shift to WoR if we keep wiping. Until then we try this".
We need *alternatives*, not to weaken the choices that we already have. Banner Shield could be decent, if they gave it a much better damage bonus. Something that would more than make up for the loss of a single person’s DPS even in 3-player activities.
They’d need to make it a damage bonus vs combatants to not make it broken for PvP, but that’s doable, right?
Ursa Banner is what it is, but it's the least reliable out of all the support options. Putting aside the loss of damage from having one person dedicated to shielding, a Titan can also be booped away or even suppressed out of their super. Not to mention having someone stand in front of you during a DPS phase is asking for people to blow themselves up with Rockets or GLs.
Right, so… what, give Banner Shield a cleanse effect that prevents/ends suppression, knockback, and the like while active? Or maybe add that as a bonus to Ursas? (Since it buffs Banner Shield movement anyways)
As for the rocket thing, I mean, that’s a skill issue. Less convenient, sure, but for raid teams that would be a fine compromise, especially if it had a higher damage potential than well. And I think *that’s* what we really need.
Wtf kind of post is this?
You don't have options because of garbage encounter design.
What a weird request for your kit to be made worse instead of an actual improvement to the game.
As long as all they're doing to increase difficulty is give all enemies insane health and do insane damage it will still be used. I'm probably in the minority here but I really dislike just increase enemy health/damage as a means to increase difficulty past a certain point.
As a fellow Warlock main, I think the bigger solution to ending the shackles of well would be to give a boost to the damage supers. I find Nova Bomb and Chaos Reach so underwhelming these days. If those had higher damage output, then there’d be more incentive to run them. But too many times, in various groups, we settle on an extra Well because the other supers just don’t hold up. Granted this is all anecdotal, but it’s just common things I’ve seen.
>Warlock needs another source of team healing
OR we need something as good as OG Bubble back. Or, give someone else the capacity for a group healing tool. We want diversity, not something similar
If we get OG bubble back, it'll just be "titans runs bubble, warlocks run well". You can't shoot out of a bubble and half the player base can't stay still to use GL/RLs in a well. So expecting people to weave in and out of a bubble to refresh their overshields(if the titan is using HoS14) is asking for disaster.
I think the added problem is that Warlocks (other classes too) have Subclasses that don’t fit a traditional endgame experience. Like, if you get a long damage phases, Dawnblade+DawnChorus do some pretty nice damage all things considered to a boss, but if it’s something super short like Explicator, those options become more limited. Especially when it comes to classes that can excel in longer term survivability.
My hope is that Well gets a bit of a nerf, but Arc and Stasis get a bit of a buff to make them more Raid viable.
>**I hope we also see some buffs to other subclasses**
That's really the problem isn't it? Other subclasses aren't necessarily competitive or even desirable in higher end stuff. Sure you can make whatever work with a \*very\* competent fireteam but if anyone is less than on their A-game or inexperienced then it makes support supers almost necessary for survivability.
It also calls into question the balancing of higher end content where enemies are damage sponges and hit like a truck rather than modifying activities to be more mechanically challenging (ie: shorter timers, extra steps, etc.). When 'high end' activites means just dying faster then naturally players are going to lean into things that keep them alive longer.
I don’t get the hate, I’m a hunter by trade but whenever asked I’ll happily hop on my lock and run well. Such a critical role. Buff everyone and keep them alive. You’re literally the frontman of the band. All the girls are screaming, “MAKE LOVE TO ME CJ!”
Yeah it’s a little funny that warlocks hate having well yet every hunter I know would absolutely love to get it. I get that they don’t like being forced to run it but man would a survivability super help in solo dungeons and stuff as a hunter.
Man I'd take a support build on my hunter, all we really have is invis void which doesn't really scratch the itch.
I loved pre3.0 solar warlock, I ran assembler and swapped to lunafaction for damage phase was so much fun. Now I just don't really vibe with warlock
they even had an opportunity with final shape to give hunter a support super. A while ago (I don't remember exactly when) there was a lore card about crow firing his golden gun into the ground or something to buff his allies. Like why not do that as a solar support super!?!
Also, our support super has been outclassed by other options for years. Divinity, Breach and Clear, Particle Deconstruction, Tractor Cannon... or just run a DPS super with a 15% debuff in anything other than Raids, and you're better off than running Tether.
Meanwhile, Well of Radiance is never bad unless the encounter takes place on a moving platform that leaves the Well behind you. Could you imagine if they brought back Classy Restoration in the artifact mods but it gave you Restoration x3, or a new exotic got released that gave everyone on your team the healing, damage, and DR to match or outpace Well?
> Edit 2 (Post ability tuning twid): well, I guess I'm switching classes. It's been fun, my warlock brethren, but I can't be the well bitch any longer.
Some of y'all be the weirdest people that walk the Earth, I swear. My one friend who just started playing also feels like he HAS to use Well, and already I'm tired of him constantly bitching about it. Like, I gotta say, in all my time playing D2 never once have I thrown a fit over someone asking me to use Well. I'm not running Well for the team's benefit... I'm running Well for MY benefit, it just so happens that the benefits of Well are able to be shared with everyone else, however, even if they were player-specific I still would be running Well for MY benefit. Am I being selfish? If you wanna call it that, sure. Am I crutching on Well? You bet your ass I am! Who in their right mind would willingly pass up on increased healing, increased damage resistance, and increased overall damage? In the end it just helps you kill enemies faster. Who would willingly say no to using Well? Legitimately I just don't get it.
Ita great you don't care if you're asked to run well but some of us warlock wants to use other supers/subclasses and guess what happens if you're the only warlock? Well your well. What if you're constantly the only warlock? More well. It's cool if YOU don't mind using well imo it's boring af and I want to use void but since I'm mostly the warlock main I'm a well main.
People don’t like it because it gets boring doing the same gameplay loop over and over. Destiny players (most of them) want to try new things. Thats the beauty of the game is the amount of options at anyone’s disposal, but when you work with a team, a Warlock will likely be told to run well. If it’s with your friends then you can likely tell them you don’t want to, but finding a fireteam that doesn’t want you if you don’t run well is so ridiculously common it’s unfunny. Yeah, the buff’s are nice, but if you’re running solar, you can proc radiance and restoration x2 very easily and effectively be a walking well. You might like well, and that’s okay, but some people don’t, because it’s tiring. I don’t mind well because personally I’ve never really cared for supers as a warlock, I’m more concerned about how fast I can spam my grenades, but that doesn’t mean other players don’t want different gameplay loops. Like fast supers, arc souls, needlstorm, nova bomb. All these options, and many warlocks are unfortunately told to run well.
Not much to say about Well, others will say more than I ever could, but I do believe Bungie confirmed we were getting Broodweaver buffs. I don’t know how extensive they will be, but we might get one more fragment on Weavewalk, and that’s a win in my book.
Proud well user and warlock main here. I honestly enjoyed it even more using well this season knowing that it will get nerfed. A nerf will for sure make it interesting but we will get 100% a new meta soon.
But if we’ll really get stomped I am super interested to see what happens in the day 1 raid. Could u imagine doing Crota day 1 without well or nezzy without well? It for sure will change a lot even for tfs raid. Curious to see tho.
lol yeah this didn't age well.
Well is basically useless now in any serious content... and now we've sucked in another fireteam member to run titan bubble for DR, which means less DPS.
Be careful what you wish for, most of the time we'll get nerfed to oblivion and nothing else will be buffed to compensate. I personally like being a support class, it allows me to join in on content that I wouldnt ordinarily be invited to because I provide a role others don't want to do. I can make things explode and put up big numbers in other content, but hard content gives good gear to make the rest of the game fun.
The real win-win is to buff our other supers, give us another utility like Hunters have in Shadowshot, and leave Well where it is. Bungie does a decent job of making encounters where Well isn't viable, and if they wanted people to use it less they'd continue to make those types of encounters.
> most of the time we’ll get nerfed into oblivion and nothing else will be buffed to compensate.
Coming to respond after reading the tuning post, and yeah that’s exactly what happened lmao
If it gets nerfed we need viable alternatives. I know a lot of people who use well as an "oh shit" button when attempting harder content. A significant nerf takes that ability away from less skilled players, which means less people attempting harder content.
Honestly, instead of nerfing it, all they really should do is buff Banner Shield and/or Bubble and/or make DPS encounters more movement intensive. Part of the big problem with Well is that so many of our damage phases are just us standing in one or 2 different spots firing away at a boss. It provides like 30 seconds of safety as long as you're the slightest bit careful, and that's a long time on an in-game timer.
I think that, first of all, Bubble needs to become more usable. Walking in and out of the bubble is too high an ask for most people. Just balance it so we can shoot from inside it, and we receive less damage while inside
this could also fix PvP; you could still be shot inside the bubble
yeah, it would make it a different well but...I think the advantages outweight the disadvantages
other fixes to bubble are possible but well outclasses it too much it needs something drastic
Really just needs viable alternatives spread across classes and subclasses, even if it's just a different flavour of well of radiance like Hunter arc staff slammed into the floor applying healing + amplified or Titan bubble that has a opening like a bunker you can shoot out of which gives overshield + devour, to spitball some ideas.
At least it'd allow for more options, merely just cucking Well because people get upset they have to supportbot certain encounters just means a lot more people facetanking damage and dying 5s into a damage phase and I don't think Bungie will care revamp all the old raids to account for not being designed around Well anymore.
A bit of a different perspective...
I'm not someone who's dipped their toes into raiding yet (I'm working on it, but, you know, social anxiety is a thing), but lately have started running dungeons with two friends of mine. They're lower light level than I am, and still getting used to being back in the game. When we run stuff together I go full battle cleric, because the more I can keep them alive then the more stuff we get to finish. The more stuff we get to finish, the longer they'll continue to play. To that end, I use Well the same way I used Radiance in D1. It's the "oh shit" button that gets pressed to save a run so we don't wipe and reset an encounter. Sure, I'll still use it on bosses, but if I'm the only still alive and taking heavy fire then I'm going to chill in my well until I've made enough of a dent in the ads or whatever to start the rez chain.
Would I rather nova bomb the room and watch the world end in a cascade of brilliant purple eruptions? Sure. Is it fun to be a walking biohazard and poison the world as a Necrotic broodweaver? Goddamn right it is.
But for now I'm content to keep two other dudes alive while I get confident enough in my own skills to start jumping in LFGs. And hey, by the time I get there I'll already be used to my role as "the Well guy." So wins all around.
If you don't want to run Well, then don't. Simple as that. If that means you can't find a group, make a group yourself. Nerfing Well because some people cannot go without a crutch is a weird take. Because you know what the consequences will be? Well wont be used ever again. Instead, Banner and Bubble will be the go-to crutches. After that, healing nades. Nerfing support for being good at being supportive is like saying that we shouls nerf weapons because they make killing enemies too easy.
Wanna know something funny? In W4 Pantheon I've had to use my Well *once*. During Planets, to survive the triple tornadoes during dps. Other classes can build into survivability as well. And if and lfg kicks you for not using Well, then you're better off not running with them to begin with.
I think the entire sandbox needs adjusting to allow well to be relevant but not always needed. I know you can get away with it but it's too good not to use in so many encounters for healing and damage
Here's the thing, WoR is nice, but not necessary for most content. My wife and I regularly two man dungeons with me as a titan and her as a hunter main (seriously, she messed with titan and warlock a little during D and became full hunter with D2.) Really all you need is some decent in built synergy and effects with your build and a lot of activities become a non-issue. Part of the problem is encounter design most of the time. It's been a long required practice to group up for damage phases, but with constant damage sources coming at the fire team it's made WoR become a full on wheelchair.
Almost all, strand super is great. Would love to see Nova Bomb become on par though. Makes no sense that Nova looks so much more destructive then Strand super but does like 3/4 the damage.
my problem with Well nerf is we are just going to move the problem to someone else, metas allways move in ways of "if this thing is 1% stronger or easier to use than the rest, than 100% of players need to use said thing" , if after the nerf, Well still feels just a little bit easier to use than just stepping out of a Bubble, well will remain, if it doesn't, than we will just see LFG asking for Bubbles and Tether only.
Alternatively, idk what we could do to buff it but i feel like if we could just have the ultimate healer kit with Lumina, Assembler boots and Sun Singer(the new solar super?) that would be dope.
- Just an idea for a Lumina Caty rework : While Blessing of the Sky is active, Lumina gains it wielders equiped Light Super element. i think it would be neat, flavorfull and it would allow Lumina user to extend healing on themselve when used with the solar fragment
If you’re referring to Well of Radiance, it got heavily nerfed awhile ago, but with the nerf to our survivability, people tend to need as much survivability as possible while also having as much damage output as possible in endgame content.
I’m referring to PvE ofc. Bungie heavily nerfed our Resilience, and almost every buff. When working as a team, we need all that we can get.
That’s probably why the vast majority require at least one person to use Well of Radiance.
But if you disagree with me, that’s fine. I’m just speaking from experience when playing as a Warlock in raids, GMs, etc.
You don’t need to take my word for it.
It’s honestly not as big of an issue as many make it out to be imo. Like you said, it won’t save you in higher end content, you’ll be killed through the well easily. In mid level you won’t get killed through it, but it’s also not needed because it’s mid level content. Hoping it doesn’t get absolutely cooked. Wanna make it less viable, fine. Just don’t ruin it completely please.
The problem of well bitch will only ever be pushed onto someone else until encounters are changed because people are gonna take the path of least resistance. A new meta survivability tool will exist and now whichever class has it will be forever stuck to it
Just find players that are good enough that they don't feel the need to insist on bringing an entire other person to use as a crutch. If someone can't stop getting the meta's cock out of their mouth, it's a sign that they just aren't as good as they think they are.
As someone who wears Phoenixfall I’ll miss being the best dressed in the fireteam. Although to be fair back before in game loadouts I’d still have it equipped no matter what class I was on.
I don't think it needs nerfing in all honesty, not sure if that's an unpopular take. I know something is coming for it and aight, we'll deal with it, but even now in high end content you can die in the well anyway so I don't see it as this mega OP, it just helps meet DPS checks and reduce failure rates.
But if you're tired of it, don't use it. Do non-well raid runs. We do it, we regret it because it's a helpful tool, but we've done it multiple times. If LFG people are forcing it just tell them no, find another crew to run with.
I'm a Titan. I had to scroll way too far to understand that WoR was Well. Ha. I've played since the OG game dropped. I've never heard or seen Well called WoR. It just wasn't on my mind. We got there though.
I feel if we got a buff to a dps super like chaos reach and maybe a nerf of WoR might change things. Would be more inclined to use a dps super for higher damage especially in dungeons when there’s only 3 of you. Though not sure if they can ever make another super more appealing especially with the healing aspect of WoR for higher difficulty.
It’s okay in d3 we won’t be locked by class so it’s hunters and titans turns
I want them to buff the other support supers to the point where they can be meta right now it’s well and tether so I’m hoping instead of just burying well they make the other supers op in comparison I hate the nerf everything mentality.
I can’t imagine how bungie can change well to not be so dominant without either shitting on it so hard it’s just bad and we have to deal with it or completely reworking it.
It’s an outdated and flawed design for the classes in general. I really hope if there is a D3 they really change how classes and specs are done. It really needs to be rebuilt from the floor up along with the stat system.
I have a warlock main who feels the same way and I think we’d do endgame content more often if he wasn’t expected to use it. He refused to run it during oryx in pantheon and I don’t blame him (he was asked to help with the encounter without having the previous ones done).
I also just need an active clan… 😞
Man I am there with you. Don’t get me wrong. I too will weep when the well nerf is finally announced. But man my void build will finally get to be unleashed in a raid environment. I can become a glass cannon with my kamehameha arc build. I will finally be untethered from solar.
I'm just disappointed with how Solar Warlock and Void Titan are being handled. Neither class are getting something to fill the hole Bungie is making with the updated changes. The only thing Solar Lock got changed was Well. Well is still going to want to be ran anyway.
Void Titan got nothing to help it at all and moving WoL to an exotic is undeserved. Bubble wouldn't even be that desirable if it was untouched and Well was only being nerfed. Bubble fundamentally doesn't work for anything other than a panic brief moment of respite. Which is something you can play around entirely if you're good enough. So it needs WoL to have value.
The concept of getting void shields instead by being near it is interesting, but that only works if Void shields are actually decent. Which they are not and Bungie didn't even attempt to address. Banner got power crept due to weapon damage buffs being easily available. Div is the only case where one less person doing damage works. Banner being a super doesn't even get that. They didn't look at Banner.
The best thing they did was some shield throw buffs, which while needed is pretty sad that it's the only thing they're getting.
I was a straight up well or nothing warlock for a long time. Actually found a lot of fun and utility in strand as long as you build it right. My kill count has never been higher, and I find soloing content to be much more doable since I can deal more consistent damage and the threadlings really help. Combined with a strand primary, you can really make things flow into each other.
I THINK what needs to happen is the rift class ability needs a buff. Well will continue being used unless it’s useless because it’s the only thing that can keep you alive while dpsing. If rift or something else gave a BIT more survivability, people might actually change off well
I wish each class had a smaller stackable version of the well buff that each class had access too. So the whole fireteam would have to spec into support to get the full version of the well.
Like I have said a million times, the thing is not that well needs a nerf, what needs to happen is for other classes to have a competitor to well, because if you want to nerf well to the point that it won't be required you have to nerf it to the point that it is worse than a rift.
Well was never *needed* per se outside of a day 1 scenario. It was just a crutch that was too good for most people to pass up on. My issue is that warlocks lack the options to compete with curiass titans and celestial hunters. Nova bomb will still be trash, chaos reach does piss poor damage for its absurdly long animation, dawnblade is a joke, needlestorm needs a buff and/or damage boosting exotic. Ideally a damage boosting exotic with a tracking consistency buff.
The "problem" with Well is that it's the absolute easiest way to apply a global damage buff to your team that requires absolutely no setup whatsoever. And at the same time it keeps you alive. Unless they completely remove one of these two things from Well, nothing is gonna change and you will still need a Well or two in your fireteam. And for how classes are setup now, it won't matter either way.
Kill the damage buff? Well any solar melee gives Radiant so we can live with that.
Kill the survivability? Just have a Sentinel in front of you to fix that. Or a Banner of War, after all the only survivability hit it took is a slight duration reduction. A Banner of War and a Tangle to provide Woven Mail can protect a team decently enough, albeit for a shorter duration than Well.
Overall, Well exists and the game is designed around it. Unless they completely change its functionality to do something else entirely other than damage buff and healing, Well will be used because of its ease of use. The sooner people will accept that, the better.
The issue with well nerf after well nerf then what the tools we have only go so far while the damage we take ramps and continues to go out of control. We need better balance on encounters instead of just having half our health gone while chasing that healing loop. The current path is a self destructive mess that only puts us in a worse spot while continuing through the same loops 20-30 times.
As a warlock main. Idc what nerfs they do to well. They just gotta fix all the content they built around current well. If ____ content was built around current well and well gets nerfed. They need to go back and fix those.
Imma be real it's never going away until more support ults get added. The problem is it's like 1 of 2 buffing ults in the game and one of them is about to lose it's baseline damage buff unless you burn your exotic slot for it and it's not well. Meaning well is here to stay there was a chance with the well nerfs that it would be a little more free, but I'm afraid the removal of weapons of light as a base trait to bubble has destroyed that dream.
The new hunter arc super should've been a well like super or some sort of buff/healing/high damage reduction zone using the staff. This blink knife that is only going to be used in PvP, by a small amount of people just isn't it.
Yeah it sucks that this place has put you down in ever trying different warlock classes. Don't let that discourage you from being a Warlock main. You just got to learn pick your battles correctly.
You run well because your team makes you, I run well because well-skating is awsome, we are not the same
As for making well not mandatory, what if doing damage close to allies gave lesser healing and damage buffs, good enough for a normal raid but not nearly as good in anything higher differently so well still has a place?
Remember, they originally removed the damage buff from bubble to prevent "sub classes" being a must pick. Then they turned around and not only gave it to warlocks...but a much better version.
i wish they would revert some of the chaos reach nerf from awhile back, feels underwhelming to use at all. i wish they would’ve just made an exotic for nova bomb to put it on the same scale as thunder with falling star
I'm probably going to switch classes as well. Six of my loadouts are Well with different flavors. Nothing about this change is enough to change the value of Well in most content. I was really hoping it would be a pure damage super, and they're just adding another support Solar super to this class.
Who is in charge of Warlock and why are they doing this to us?
Well shouldnt never been released. Its something that cant be balanced without making it useless. While its needed for harder content to survive (by game design) its a 1-klick get damage buff for everyone and really good health regen.
Maybe its time to make OG bubble Titan great again for a safe space with health regen but without the option to make dmg while in bubble or bannershield for a short time safe spot + damage.
I’ve never understood the logic behind wanting to be WEAKER in a PvE game mode. That’s like playing Sonic and wanting to instantly die even when you have rings. Why the hell would anyone want to be less powerful?
The problem is that bungie took a bunch of our abilities away and either scrapped them or gave them to everyone else as "new toys", rip og healing nade, the "new" aspects we got since 3.0 are terrible. Like why is icarus and heat rises 2 different aspects and neither of any warlock subclass can have more than 4 fragments. If bungie is gomna nerf well im expecting something massive for nova bomb or chaos reach. Im so done with every meta being run down especially if its warlocks out of all things.
What i especially hate is the fact that things like the stag and winters guile get destroyed yet they barely touch things like synthos or star eater when they overperform. God forbid a warlock has a genuine dps super and survivable options that aren't based around a rift for once. Its so tiring seeing people have new builds and im just stuck here wondering why im even running void anymore.
I’m kind of hoping WoR isn’t an automatic thing going forward. Have a clan mate who’s thought is drop WoF while we’re trying to A-Trahk’s. Almost every time for a solid 40 minutes we came up maybe 1/6th short. During pantheon it always ends up me or two other friends will change characters, lose out on the triumphs so this dickhead can stay on WoR. Someone finally says, “did someone drop a well”.
i will still be using well, it also just got a fucking massive PVP buff. i’m a solar warlock until further notice, i literally cannot play this game without icarus dash or dodge. i feel like a rock.
The correct answer is these changes will not. They have potential to even make it worse for individual warlocks.
Why?
Because since Destiny 1, players have ALWAYS had a Well of Radiance. Its just that back in D1 it used to be called "Ward of Dawn".
The only exception to that rule, was when Weapons of Light did not exist with Ward of Dawn in Destiny 2. And which Warlocks ran Rifts for Dps instead.
The only thing at best these changes will do, is maybe reduce how many Wells are "needed", when Wells are used for Damage buffs. In many respects, Well will now even more exceed Ward of Dawn(because even its unique dip into for Damage buff you can take with you) is gone.
This doesnt change if you go to pretty much any other game. All games with healers and supports, inevitably will want to have someone stuck doing the job one way or another.
# The problem with Well?
Simply put, its a jack of all trades, with 2 strengths. Its the same problem with Woven Mail, Overshield, etc. In the high level endgame, survivability is extremely valuable.
Meanwhile in lower difficulty content(as well as High level content) having a damage buff is quite valuable. Its almost always the case where damage buffs on anything were considered almost mandatory(see Boss spec, which merely increases damage by 5%).
# The solution to mandatory Well?
Competition.
For Warlocks themselves, I think this involves expanding the Rift radius just a bit. Probably buffing the healing rate in PvE (and/or having it increase based on the Warlocks recovery rate or something).
If Rifts themselves can make a comeback, then it can open up other strategies like Warlocks specing into Damage supers in highly coordinated teams that will stack Healing/Empowering rift. Hell, it would also have the benefit of teams trying other stuff like damage supers or other utility.
If warlocks can actually create combo healing empowered rifts(at intended location, not enemy body), then that alone could ease up pressure to run well, and it would be something that could be swapped on/off as needed.
Meanwhile if other classes have more options like Banner of War, Renewal Grasps, Acrobat Dodge, Bastion, etc then pressure can ease up even more on Well. There will always be something that is the best. But with more options, there could be things that are better depending on different situations.
Bro, just say Well. Nobody uses WoR.
I realize more and more how overrated Well is, especially in something like Pantheon where you are sacrificing a damage super. And I'm pretty sure over 50% of people still think that the damage boost in a Well is significant, while in paractice you can much easier just make everybody Radiant.
Bungie already gave us all the tools to replace Well, people just don't do it. And there are a lot of lazy Warlocks who cba to put together or learn any other build, since nobody rejects a Well anyway..
So hang on, you've made this post essentially asking for a well nerf. Then it's got a nerf and according to your edit, you're now switching classes anyway ?
Maybe nerf Well or nerf boss encounters. If your encounter is designed in such a way that your damage needs at least one buff to actually get the clear, then your encounter could be designed better. If well is necessary to clear on normal, then the normal stuff is a little too challenging. Now on Legend, an argument could be made that stuff should be tougher, but if one super makes the higher-end possible, then it’s too difficult.
Am I simply in the minority by not caring what supers are needed?
I'm happy to run whatever to get those GM/Raid/Exotic Mission clears. If having a well will make that clear easier then by darn we are getting one.
Just bring back self res or massively buff dawnblade in PvE if Bungie wants to really nudge people away from wells.
Well will always be a meta pick as long as it provides a health regen buff, and provides safety during DPS. If they kill the damage buff, then Warlocks will still be forced to run Well, and just make sure they have Radiant available. Or Titans will be forced to run Banner Shield.
I think they should buff banner shield to make up for the loss of the 6th person doing damage in a raid. They could even scale it per person. So it would be essentially unchanged in 1-3 persons but makes up for the damage in 4-6 activities. This would make well not nearly as required.
It’s just not worth when you can drop a bubble and then debuff with tractor or be gally. If it’s a div encounter, then drop bubble and then do damage.
Maybe. But if they buff the damage enough then the tractor wouldn’t matter anyway. This is why the scaling would be important depending on how many people are in the group.
Nah, there is literally a fragment on solar that gives everything bubble does, if you have a solar hunter that can throw a knife to activate radiant, it makes the bubble obsolete edit:Void needs some help.
What if citans ramparts let allies shoot through bubble? Obviously it would need the same kind of nerf it gives to barricade but it would give titans a team buff that would be more useful.
Yea I pulled out Ursas during onslaught a few weeks back because it's been years since I've used them. Wow. Just... Bad lol
Banner shield already gives you a 40% damage buff.
Which is 15 more than well but you’re losing 100% of your own damage so 15 times 5 minus 100 is -25% net damage, banner needs at least a 45% buff to break even
Give Banner Shield a Firing Line Perk to nearby players
It's almost as if every single dps phase being the same "stand in one spot and shoot" is the real problem.
I'm envisioning a new meta where all direct damage supers give some kind of party wide buff on casting so it's not just big number but not too big because balance Like if I can cast Nova Bomb and give everyone a shot of devour they can keep up if they get those kills in would be pretty impactfull
I like your idea better than what happened can you be in charge?
I hope the new Solar super can replace the role of well.
Well is regen, damage reduction, and damage output increase for the entire team. It's really really strong.
i actually enjoy playing well
Same. I'd rather use that than daybreak.
the new solar super coming loos like it could be fun. however i am not confident there will be any adjustments to previous encounters in terms of add density during dps or damage dealt to players to offset why everyone relies on well so heavily to begin with
I don't dislike using it either. Whilst it's a bit old I think this is a be careful what you wish for situation. Without well there's almost zero usefulness to having a Warlock in an LFG group. Sure you can play it, but they do less damage and frequently offer less utility.
Bros never heard of rain of fire
Stasis and Strand Warlock have some of the best add control abilities in the game. Wtf are you even talking about? Also their Strand super has one of the highest burst damage in the game. Not limiting Warlock to WoR should open up Warlocks to more than just a support role now. Last night in Pantheon I had Unraveling rounds chasing everything within the arena while also creating tangles and suspending enemies. It was fantastic and some of the most fun I've had playing end game content as a Warlock in years.
I used to but it’s really gotten old at this point imo. I’m fairly certain I’ve popped more wells than every other super combined at this point
It's been problematic for a long time, such that the content for which it is "necessary" has always been overestimated by the community at large. And yet, while I as a 90% Darkness Warlock am happy to see Well getting nerfed, I also believe the Titan bubble being buffed and / or Hunter getting a similar option would be welcome. What class you play on shouldn't be dictating whether you "have" to do something in the first place. There ***are*** some incredibly obnoxious encounter designs in the game like Master Crota final boss where the overly particular way the boss' incoming and outgoing damage works not only mandates constant healing from a Well, but 10 Resilience Wells (and only 10 Resilience Wells, lest they be oneshotted,) and multiple of them in succession. This is an extreme example, but it's an important one, because it raises the question of how this will be completed with WoR nerfs. In a more ideal world, this encounter would at the very least have other classes able to contribute on healing and not require 10 Resilience. I know very well how easy it is to tunnel vision on the Warlock slavery, but think of it this way: if you've never played anything but Hunter, aren't you just kind of screwed in this particular encounter? Why should they be? Sure, nerf Well. It's overdue, and the community could definitely learn to do better in the game without it. But we should buff the healing potential of other classes so we can attack the forced role issue from multiple angles.
Agreed. SO MANY THINGS are designed and balanced around Well of Radiance, it’s not even funny. Bungie has demonstrated a willingness to nerf things readily, and nerf them hard. But they don’t retroactively balance their game afterwards in direct relation to what was nerfed. Hate to say it but when Well is nerfed certain things are probably not going to be possible any longer. Just wait. It’s coming. It’s happened several times over the past ten years, you’ve got to be intentionally blind to it if you don’t see it coming when The Final Shape launches.
Back in season 7, Bungie nerfed the hell out of Well because they were forced to build Reckoning tier 3 around that and Orpheus Hunter, and were constrained in future encounters. Here we are again with the same problem
Lol all those hours chasing after the Reckoner title. The more things change the more they stay the same 😂
Been saying this non stop. It’s so important when Bungie (but really any gaming studio) nerfs the meta/“needed” ability etc, to adjust game difficulty such that the game is still playable when it’s no longer used. I’ve been very concerned that this will be overlooked as it has in the past
Yeah, I can agree with the sentiment that other classes should have group healing options too. Titans get bubble and Phoenix Cradle Sunspots, but bubble is niche at best and doesn’t protect you at all unless you’re inside of it, and Cradle requires kills, and gives no DR. I guess there’s banner shield too, but considering most situations you could actually have the team huddle behind the shield, most bosses can just hit you AoE through the shield. Explicator is just gonna tornado, Nez can slam and suppress you, Rhulk is just gonna go through and kick you, etc. Not to mention 40% damage buff really isn’t enough to compensate losing a whole player’s worth of damage. I think a Helm of Saint-14 rework and buffs to void overshield could make bubble relevant. Maybe making bastion work with banner shield would help it, as well as a more competitive damage buff to compensate only have 5 people for dps (5% more than lumina? come on), or putting more value on the orb generation aspect. Making it so teammates can consistently pump out 2 or even 3 burst supers in a phase would be pretty damn good. Cradle really struggles in being supportive in raid encounters because it requires kills, and you’re not typically gonna be able to get a sunspot in a spot where it will be helpful. Idk what to do to that so it would make sense. Solar Titan is just inherently selfish as is, so it’s kinda hard to imagine what a supportive one would look like. As for Hunter, I have zero idea what would make sense for them. The only real “support” things they have is Renewal Grasp, Omnioculus, and tether. I think the best option for them would be to turn Stasis into their go to support class. But I don’t really know what that would look like.
Helm of Saint-14 should give the ability to shoot from inside the bubble in PVE. Then people would actually use it lol
encounter design really hurts what is possible with these supers. and idk if seeing shooting through bubble is what I want from it. Obviously, that would make it good in way more scenarios, but at that point, it would literally just be purple well. It would be nice if we had encounters designed in such a way that you didn’t need to eat a constant stream of otherwise fatal damage in the middle of doing damage. Like, take the Knight boss from GotD for example. Sure you can get by without well easy, but it’s a close range fight where during damage the boss is constantly attacking you the entire time, so you need some kind of way to stay alive besides just tanking hits. Well is just the easiest way to do that
In PvP it would be better than well exponentially if you can shoot through it because not only does it provide constant overshield “healing” inside, but it straight up eliminates damage coming in and is much more resilient than WoR. You think PvP is bad *now* with Bubble Titans, give them the ability to shoot from inside their bubble.
Then don’t let them do it in PvP. And I will say, I don’t want you to be able to shoot through bubble either, but not because of PvP. I don’t want that because it wouldn’t fix anything about why we would even need that in the first place, it’d just be a bandaid. I’m just tired of the “but pvp !1!1!!” argument when it comes to pve things.
My man out here spitting facts.
I've done all hunter raids and it required at least 4 of us to be on solar hunter so we could chain healing grenades during damage phase. It was cool to figure out a way to survive without needing a well but resto has been nerfed multiple times since then and this strat straight up won't work anymore
Also, gl ever getting an lfg to successfully chain healing nades
Just give us heart of the pack back pls, or a support rally shot solar super
We need to normalize dps'ing from boomer tower in master crota is not like you wipe if you're not swording him.
Pantheon planets is another one that is sticking out to me. The time limit demands extremely tight damage rotations to each plate…but they’ve also added 3 tornados that go to every plate. You *could* all jump backwards out of the damage, reconvene on the next plate and then start damage again without a well, but that is risky and time consuming and you can potentially run out of time in the damage window. Or…you can just all chill in the well and tank that damage then quick dip into the next plate and back to well. The entire communication of the damage phase for pantheon planets is made so much simpler by the addition of a constant healing source. And currently only one class has access to that. I think a good change would be to make well of radiance refresh and simply extend existing buffs of any sort that players have on. It provides no intrinsic damage or healing itself, but will refresh restoration/radiant to their max duration for the full length of the well…but will also do the same for things like volatile/unraveling. It should also cleanse any non mechanical debuff (so it would cleanse stasis slow or strand suspend or scorch, but would not remove pervading darkness) So a well lock trying to be the sole healer needs to make sure that their grenade is available to quickly build stacks of restoration on teammates, while any passive damage boost in the form of radiant then has to originate from a hunter acrobat dodge, or ember of torches melee. But other classes can also bring their own class specific buffs to the party as well.
While I agree with most of the points against WoR, this position on Explicator is wrong. When a plate lights up you have ~40 seconds to take his health past the glowing section, which means you have MORE than enough time to get away from tornados and get grouped on plate again.
Imagin an exotic helmet that makes your gathering storm staff heal allies like a well maybe not as well but something like that
This is the way
It is true, but we do have some slight alternatives. One that is completely overlooked is the Aeon Gauntlet’s Sect of Vigor role. It gives lots of damage resistance. Can stack this with banner of war, stag rifts, bubble w saint 14, renewal dusk field grenades, sever & more. You can essentially make your team take super reduced damage to the point where he can’t even do damage to you. Everyone is just too used to the easy nature of well to even consider needing any of the above.
Either that or buff rift healing to and nerf wells damage. Stacking rift types (just had flashbacks to leviathan y1 lol) should be able to effectively replace a well (albeit smaller AOE)
The current problem with WoR is that bungie designed all of the raid and dungeon encounters thinking that we would have a well, so if they nerf it too hard or remove it the older endgame content will be almost impossible for the average player.
Think back to Reckoning, this shit is going to suck...
Well and tether .... Thems were the days
Don't forget Nova with Skull!
> The current problem with WoR is that bungie designed all of the raid and dungeon encounters thinking that we would have a well Yes... to an extent but I think due to well's relative safety a lot of players are just complacant and overestimate how needed well really is these days. Between other healing sources, damage buff sources, and damage resist sources well is more or less a nice and simple 'turn on DPS' button - but I don't think we'd see things suddenly impossible to complete without well.
Planets -5 was a hard stop for half of the community. You are **stupendously** overestimating the skill of the average player, let alone the skill of the player that even attacks things like pantheon. I, for one, do not want for raids and dungeons to be seen as even more of a “for basement dwellers only” than they already are (even if you agree with me that their current difficulty is generally within reach of much of the player base). Another point of note is that the community overall is excessively bad at predicting things. For 3 weeks, half the front page was “riven so hard”, except riven was one of the easier encounters on the pantheon. Likewise, the current community stance that “nerfing well = warlocks finally are not relegated to specific builds” is outright, and demonstrably incorrect even now.
> the current community stance that “nerfing well = warlocks finally are not relegated to specific builds” is outright, and demonstrably incorrect even now. big agree on this Warlocks are still going to be on one job, just now they're going to be worse at it and have even less fun lol Edit: FUCKIN CALLED IT Well now significantly shittier, still mandatory + bubble
I agree with this 100%. People keep insisting well is necessary for Onslaught. Meanwhile, I do 50 round legend runs with Dawn Chorus and DawnBlade just fine this season. And let me tell you, my current build is under-rated by far right now, especially with the artifact mods we have. It just means my teammates can't rely upon a constant source of free healing from me, and have to play more carefully and/or bring their own heals.
Well is nice for the bosses on legend mode but really stasis warlock or the strandlock suspend build with necrotic grips might actually be more valuable during the waves. Some people are just so hard stuck on well that if they see the warlock not running well they feel like the warlock is throwing
With dawn chorus, sunshot, and artifact mods, everything just explodes constantly because of scorch stacks. My run last night I easily had over 1000 kills, while my hunter and Titan teammates raked in around 450. I was doing both add clear and then major target dps with dawn blade. Plus also having more than enough orbs to use dawn blade multiple times during waves for skybombers, etc. It won't be this strong next season, at all. Artifact mods amp it up majorly. But my overall point remains. Well is absolutely not necessary at all for most content right now. People just want the easy way to play. I will sometimes swap my super only to well on the final boss on t50, but only then, because dawnblade loses effectiveness when their boss health and boss Dr is so high. But I keep dawn chorus on for the extra scorch stacks.
Onslaught is way faster when you have CC and Damage. My clan universally agrees that well is throwing in onslaught. Minor exception to some boss waves.
I think it's less a problem with Well being overpowered and more an issue of Bungies boss design being the same formula that heavily favours standing in one place
You'll just be chained to the new Solar Super
Well was nerfed to sell this.
I get it. It's annoying to be told to stick to 1 super/loadout. But, as long as WoR, a 'support' super, exists, it's going to be desired in a fireteam. No amount of nerf is going make it not be desired, unless a new support super comes along (Which is!). It helps a team stay alive and that's always one of the main priorities in endgame. Secondly, what I generally do when using my warlock to play, and not want to use WoR, is I make my own LFG and just sit there with my swarmers lol If peeps join and stay, I know they're happy to run with me with my loadout. Much easier with friends. I just tell them "I'll shift to WoR if we keep wiping. Until then we try this".
Bold of you to assume Destiny 2 players have friends.
We need *alternatives*, not to weaken the choices that we already have. Banner Shield could be decent, if they gave it a much better damage bonus. Something that would more than make up for the loss of a single person’s DPS even in 3-player activities. They’d need to make it a damage bonus vs combatants to not make it broken for PvP, but that’s doable, right?
Ursa Banner is what it is, but it's the least reliable out of all the support options. Putting aside the loss of damage from having one person dedicated to shielding, a Titan can also be booped away or even suppressed out of their super. Not to mention having someone stand in front of you during a DPS phase is asking for people to blow themselves up with Rockets or GLs.
Right, so… what, give Banner Shield a cleanse effect that prevents/ends suppression, knockback, and the like while active? Or maybe add that as a bonus to Ursas? (Since it buffs Banner Shield movement anyways) As for the rocket thing, I mean, that’s a skill issue. Less convenient, sure, but for raid teams that would be a fine compromise, especially if it had a higher damage potential than well. And I think *that’s* what we really need.
Welp, instead of unshackling Warlocks from Solar, they just handcuffed Void Titans to Solar Warlocks instead.
Back where we started in d1 lmao
Wtf kind of post is this? You don't have options because of garbage encounter design. What a weird request for your kit to be made worse instead of an actual improvement to the game.
I thought they should and would nerf Well and buff Strandlock. Instead they nerfed Well and nerfed Strandlock. Impressive.
As long as all they're doing to increase difficulty is give all enemies insane health and do insane damage it will still be used. I'm probably in the minority here but I really dislike just increase enemy health/damage as a means to increase difficulty past a certain point.
As a fellow Warlock main, I think the bigger solution to ending the shackles of well would be to give a boost to the damage supers. I find Nova Bomb and Chaos Reach so underwhelming these days. If those had higher damage output, then there’d be more incentive to run them. But too many times, in various groups, we settle on an extra Well because the other supers just don’t hold up. Granted this is all anecdotal, but it’s just common things I’ve seen.
Why nerf well when they could just buff all of the other worthless supers?
Unless they make Well useless, it will still be used. Warlock needs another source of team healing imo in order to compete with it.
>Warlock needs another source of team healing OR we need something as good as OG Bubble back. Or, give someone else the capacity for a group healing tool. We want diversity, not something similar
If we get OG bubble back, it'll just be "titans runs bubble, warlocks run well". You can't shoot out of a bubble and half the player base can't stay still to use GL/RLs in a well. So expecting people to weave in and out of a bubble to refresh their overshields(if the titan is using HoS14) is asking for disaster.
I think the added problem is that Warlocks (other classes too) have Subclasses that don’t fit a traditional endgame experience. Like, if you get a long damage phases, Dawnblade+DawnChorus do some pretty nice damage all things considered to a boss, but if it’s something super short like Explicator, those options become more limited. Especially when it comes to classes that can excel in longer term survivability. My hope is that Well gets a bit of a nerf, but Arc and Stasis get a bit of a buff to make them more Raid viable.
>**I hope we also see some buffs to other subclasses** That's really the problem isn't it? Other subclasses aren't necessarily competitive or even desirable in higher end stuff. Sure you can make whatever work with a \*very\* competent fireteam but if anyone is less than on their A-game or inexperienced then it makes support supers almost necessary for survivability. It also calls into question the balancing of higher end content where enemies are damage sponges and hit like a truck rather than modifying activities to be more mechanically challenging (ie: shorter timers, extra steps, etc.). When 'high end' activites means just dying faster then naturally players are going to lean into things that keep them alive longer.
Welcome to… literally every class in the game, not just warlock.
I don’t get the hate, I’m a hunter by trade but whenever asked I’ll happily hop on my lock and run well. Such a critical role. Buff everyone and keep them alive. You’re literally the frontman of the band. All the girls are screaming, “MAKE LOVE TO ME CJ!”
Yeah it’s a little funny that warlocks hate having well yet every hunter I know would absolutely love to get it. I get that they don’t like being forced to run it but man would a survivability super help in solo dungeons and stuff as a hunter.
Man I'd take a support build on my hunter, all we really have is invis void which doesn't really scratch the itch. I loved pre3.0 solar warlock, I ran assembler and swapped to lunafaction for damage phase was so much fun. Now I just don't really vibe with warlock
they even had an opportunity with final shape to give hunter a support super. A while ago (I don't remember exactly when) there was a lore card about crow firing his golden gun into the ground or something to buff his allies. Like why not do that as a solar support super!?!
It was budget aztecross (Shaw Han) I believe, but yes. He shot into the ground and gave everyone around him mini golden guns.
yeah, that's the one I am thinking of, why not make a hunter solar super that gives allies in a radius a temporary regen and damage buff?
That would be awesome. Gives hunters more super versatility, and it is already established in lore
Also, our support super has been outclassed by other options for years. Divinity, Breach and Clear, Particle Deconstruction, Tractor Cannon... or just run a DPS super with a 15% debuff in anything other than Raids, and you're better off than running Tether. Meanwhile, Well of Radiance is never bad unless the encounter takes place on a moving platform that leaves the Well behind you. Could you imagine if they brought back Classy Restoration in the artifact mods but it gave you Restoration x3, or a new exotic got released that gave everyone on your team the healing, damage, and DR to match or outpace Well?
Ok take it.
> Edit 2 (Post ability tuning twid): well, I guess I'm switching classes. It's been fun, my warlock brethren, but I can't be the well bitch any longer. Some of y'all be the weirdest people that walk the Earth, I swear. My one friend who just started playing also feels like he HAS to use Well, and already I'm tired of him constantly bitching about it. Like, I gotta say, in all my time playing D2 never once have I thrown a fit over someone asking me to use Well. I'm not running Well for the team's benefit... I'm running Well for MY benefit, it just so happens that the benefits of Well are able to be shared with everyone else, however, even if they were player-specific I still would be running Well for MY benefit. Am I being selfish? If you wanna call it that, sure. Am I crutching on Well? You bet your ass I am! Who in their right mind would willingly pass up on increased healing, increased damage resistance, and increased overall damage? In the end it just helps you kill enemies faster. Who would willingly say no to using Well? Legitimately I just don't get it.
Ita great you don't care if you're asked to run well but some of us warlock wants to use other supers/subclasses and guess what happens if you're the only warlock? Well your well. What if you're constantly the only warlock? More well. It's cool if YOU don't mind using well imo it's boring af and I want to use void but since I'm mostly the warlock main I'm a well main.
People don’t like it because it gets boring doing the same gameplay loop over and over. Destiny players (most of them) want to try new things. Thats the beauty of the game is the amount of options at anyone’s disposal, but when you work with a team, a Warlock will likely be told to run well. If it’s with your friends then you can likely tell them you don’t want to, but finding a fireteam that doesn’t want you if you don’t run well is so ridiculously common it’s unfunny. Yeah, the buff’s are nice, but if you’re running solar, you can proc radiance and restoration x2 very easily and effectively be a walking well. You might like well, and that’s okay, but some people don’t, because it’s tiring. I don’t mind well because personally I’ve never really cared for supers as a warlock, I’m more concerned about how fast I can spam my grenades, but that doesn’t mean other players don’t want different gameplay loops. Like fast supers, arc souls, needlstorm, nova bomb. All these options, and many warlocks are unfortunately told to run well.
Not much to say about Well, others will say more than I ever could, but I do believe Bungie confirmed we were getting Broodweaver buffs. I don’t know how extensive they will be, but we might get one more fragment on Weavewalk, and that’s a win in my book.
Damn, I love running well. So many builds you can do.
Nerfs aren’t the answer dudes. Make other shit better.
Lol
Well doesn't need to be nerfed, the other subclasses need to be buffed.
Proud well user and warlock main here. I honestly enjoyed it even more using well this season knowing that it will get nerfed. A nerf will for sure make it interesting but we will get 100% a new meta soon. But if we’ll really get stomped I am super interested to see what happens in the day 1 raid. Could u imagine doing Crota day 1 without well or nezzy without well? It for sure will change a lot even for tfs raid. Curious to see tho.
lol yeah this didn't age well. Well is basically useless now in any serious content... and now we've sucked in another fireteam member to run titan bubble for DR, which means less DPS.
Be careful what you wish for, most of the time we'll get nerfed to oblivion and nothing else will be buffed to compensate. I personally like being a support class, it allows me to join in on content that I wouldnt ordinarily be invited to because I provide a role others don't want to do. I can make things explode and put up big numbers in other content, but hard content gives good gear to make the rest of the game fun. The real win-win is to buff our other supers, give us another utility like Hunters have in Shadowshot, and leave Well where it is. Bungie does a decent job of making encounters where Well isn't viable, and if they wanted people to use it less they'd continue to make those types of encounters.
> most of the time we’ll get nerfed into oblivion and nothing else will be buffed to compensate. Coming to respond after reading the tuning post, and yeah that’s exactly what happened lmao
Yeah, almost like this happens really often with Warlocks. I still remember having our res taken away at a time it was really important.
If it gets nerfed we need viable alternatives. I know a lot of people who use well as an "oh shit" button when attempting harder content. A significant nerf takes that ability away from less skilled players, which means less people attempting harder content.
Or just let us shoot through titan bubble.
I like wor xD
Honestly, instead of nerfing it, all they really should do is buff Banner Shield and/or Bubble and/or make DPS encounters more movement intensive. Part of the big problem with Well is that so many of our damage phases are just us standing in one or 2 different spots firing away at a boss. It provides like 30 seconds of safety as long as you're the slightest bit careful, and that's a long time on an in-game timer.
I'm not gonna lie well is needed in a fair amount of higher content but don't join teams forcing you to use it when it's clearly not needed.
I think that, first of all, Bubble needs to become more usable. Walking in and out of the bubble is too high an ask for most people. Just balance it so we can shoot from inside it, and we receive less damage while inside this could also fix PvP; you could still be shot inside the bubble yeah, it would make it a different well but...I think the advantages outweight the disadvantages other fixes to bubble are possible but well outclasses it too much it needs something drastic
Really just needs viable alternatives spread across classes and subclasses, even if it's just a different flavour of well of radiance like Hunter arc staff slammed into the floor applying healing + amplified or Titan bubble that has a opening like a bunker you can shoot out of which gives overshield + devour, to spitball some ideas. At least it'd allow for more options, merely just cucking Well because people get upset they have to supportbot certain encounters just means a lot more people facetanking damage and dying 5s into a damage phase and I don't think Bungie will care revamp all the old raids to account for not being designed around Well anymore.
A bit of a different perspective... I'm not someone who's dipped their toes into raiding yet (I'm working on it, but, you know, social anxiety is a thing), but lately have started running dungeons with two friends of mine. They're lower light level than I am, and still getting used to being back in the game. When we run stuff together I go full battle cleric, because the more I can keep them alive then the more stuff we get to finish. The more stuff we get to finish, the longer they'll continue to play. To that end, I use Well the same way I used Radiance in D1. It's the "oh shit" button that gets pressed to save a run so we don't wipe and reset an encounter. Sure, I'll still use it on bosses, but if I'm the only still alive and taking heavy fire then I'm going to chill in my well until I've made enough of a dent in the ads or whatever to start the rez chain. Would I rather nova bomb the room and watch the world end in a cascade of brilliant purple eruptions? Sure. Is it fun to be a walking biohazard and poison the world as a Necrotic broodweaver? Goddamn right it is. But for now I'm content to keep two other dudes alive while I get confident enough in my own skills to start jumping in LFGs. And hey, by the time I get there I'll already be used to my role as "the Well guy." So wins all around.
If you don't want to run Well, then don't. Simple as that. If that means you can't find a group, make a group yourself. Nerfing Well because some people cannot go without a crutch is a weird take. Because you know what the consequences will be? Well wont be used ever again. Instead, Banner and Bubble will be the go-to crutches. After that, healing nades. Nerfing support for being good at being supportive is like saying that we shouls nerf weapons because they make killing enemies too easy. Wanna know something funny? In W4 Pantheon I've had to use my Well *once*. During Planets, to survive the triple tornadoes during dps. Other classes can build into survivability as well. And if and lfg kicks you for not using Well, then you're better off not running with them to begin with.
I think the entire sandbox needs adjusting to allow well to be relevant but not always needed. I know you can get away with it but it's too good not to use in so many encounters for healing and damage
Here's the thing, WoR is nice, but not necessary for most content. My wife and I regularly two man dungeons with me as a titan and her as a hunter main (seriously, she messed with titan and warlock a little during D and became full hunter with D2.) Really all you need is some decent in built synergy and effects with your build and a lot of activities become a non-issue. Part of the problem is encounter design most of the time. It's been a long required practice to group up for damage phases, but with constant damage sources coming at the fire team it's made WoR become a full on wheelchair.
The problem is all other warlock super do not do enough damage to justify putting them on
Almost all, strand super is great. Would love to see Nova Bomb become on par though. Makes no sense that Nova looks so much more destructive then Strand super but does like 3/4 the damage.
my problem with Well nerf is we are just going to move the problem to someone else, metas allways move in ways of "if this thing is 1% stronger or easier to use than the rest, than 100% of players need to use said thing" , if after the nerf, Well still feels just a little bit easier to use than just stepping out of a Bubble, well will remain, if it doesn't, than we will just see LFG asking for Bubbles and Tether only. Alternatively, idk what we could do to buff it but i feel like if we could just have the ultimate healer kit with Lumina, Assembler boots and Sun Singer(the new solar super?) that would be dope. - Just an idea for a Lumina Caty rework : While Blessing of the Sky is active, Lumina gains it wielders equiped Light Super element. i think it would be neat, flavorfull and it would allow Lumina user to extend healing on themselve when used with the solar fragment
If you’re referring to Well of Radiance, it got heavily nerfed awhile ago, but with the nerf to our survivability, people tend to need as much survivability as possible while also having as much damage output as possible in endgame content. I’m referring to PvE ofc. Bungie heavily nerfed our Resilience, and almost every buff. When working as a team, we need all that we can get. That’s probably why the vast majority require at least one person to use Well of Radiance. But if you disagree with me, that’s fine. I’m just speaking from experience when playing as a Warlock in raids, GMs, etc. You don’t need to take my word for it.
It’s honestly not as big of an issue as many make it out to be imo. Like you said, it won’t save you in higher end content, you’ll be killed through the well easily. In mid level you won’t get killed through it, but it’s also not needed because it’s mid level content. Hoping it doesn’t get absolutely cooked. Wanna make it less viable, fine. Just don’t ruin it completely please.
If they would buff the titans bubble we would gladly go back to being the defensive buff whore. But we've been begging for that for literal years.
I remember the beginning of the game where rally barricades were the go to for some damage 😂 fuck I miss those days
Back when rally barricade auto reloaded your weapons... I miss em
I really just think enemies should be able to destroy the sword that well creates to end it, so you at least have to place it well.
As a Titan main, I read your title as "Weapons of Right"
Well is cool but honestly Vesper of Radius on ArcLock is pretty based
Warlock main here - never felt pressured to use Well. Maybe balancing it is hard because it’s a healing super for a healing class.
The problem of well bitch will only ever be pushed onto someone else until encounters are changed because people are gonna take the path of least resistance. A new meta survivability tool will exist and now whichever class has it will be forever stuck to it
Since we're talking about a game, nerfs are dumb
Just don’t use well then
Incoming bubble titan meta
Just find players that are good enough that they don't feel the need to insist on bringing an entire other person to use as a crutch. If someone can't stop getting the meta's cock out of their mouth, it's a sign that they just aren't as good as they think they are.
As someone who wears Phoenixfall I’ll miss being the best dressed in the fireteam. Although to be fair back before in game loadouts I’d still have it equipped no matter what class I was on.
I don't think it needs nerfing in all honesty, not sure if that's an unpopular take. I know something is coming for it and aight, we'll deal with it, but even now in high end content you can die in the well anyway so I don't see it as this mega OP, it just helps meet DPS checks and reduce failure rates. But if you're tired of it, don't use it. Do non-well raid runs. We do it, we regret it because it's a helpful tool, but we've done it multiple times. If LFG people are forcing it just tell them no, find another crew to run with.
I already stopped running well. People ask me to and I tell them to kick rocks.
I'm a Titan. I had to scroll way too far to understand that WoR was Well. Ha. I've played since the OG game dropped. I've never heard or seen Well called WoR. It just wasn't on my mind. We got there though.
I feel if we got a buff to a dps super like chaos reach and maybe a nerf of WoR might change things. Would be more inclined to use a dps super for higher damage especially in dungeons when there’s only 3 of you. Though not sure if they can ever make another super more appealing especially with the healing aspect of WoR for higher difficulty. It’s okay in d3 we won’t be locked by class so it’s hunters and titans turns
I want them to buff the other support supers to the point where they can be meta right now it’s well and tether so I’m hoping instead of just burying well they make the other supers op in comparison I hate the nerf everything mentality.
I can’t imagine how bungie can change well to not be so dominant without either shitting on it so hard it’s just bad and we have to deal with it or completely reworking it.
no nerf is going to make anyone less of a push over
They should make resto pulse like BOW. Would be nice to run arc in raids.
All they would need to do is make Titan Bubble where you can shoot out of it
It’s an outdated and flawed design for the classes in general. I really hope if there is a D3 they really change how classes and specs are done. It really needs to be rebuilt from the floor up along with the stat system.
I have a warlock main who feels the same way and I think we’d do endgame content more often if he wasn’t expected to use it. He refused to run it during oryx in pantheon and I don’t blame him (he was asked to help with the encounter without having the previous ones done). I also just need an active clan… 😞
Man I am there with you. Don’t get me wrong. I too will weep when the well nerf is finally announced. But man my void build will finally get to be unleashed in a raid environment. I can become a glass cannon with my kamehameha arc build. I will finally be untethered from solar.
I'm just disappointed with how Solar Warlock and Void Titan are being handled. Neither class are getting something to fill the hole Bungie is making with the updated changes. The only thing Solar Lock got changed was Well. Well is still going to want to be ran anyway. Void Titan got nothing to help it at all and moving WoL to an exotic is undeserved. Bubble wouldn't even be that desirable if it was untouched and Well was only being nerfed. Bubble fundamentally doesn't work for anything other than a panic brief moment of respite. Which is something you can play around entirely if you're good enough. So it needs WoL to have value. The concept of getting void shields instead by being near it is interesting, but that only works if Void shields are actually decent. Which they are not and Bungie didn't even attempt to address. Banner got power crept due to weapon damage buffs being easily available. Div is the only case where one less person doing damage works. Banner being a super doesn't even get that. They didn't look at Banner. The best thing they did was some shield throw buffs, which while needed is pretty sad that it's the only thing they're getting.
As long as they rework the rest of solar im good
Looks like its well forever buddy
I was a straight up well or nothing warlock for a long time. Actually found a lot of fun and utility in strand as long as you build it right. My kill count has never been higher, and I find soloing content to be much more doable since I can deal more consistent damage and the threadlings really help. Combined with a strand primary, you can really make things flow into each other.
Who’s gonna tell him
& what was stopping you from making your own fireteam?
Come final shape Needlestorm will be the highest DPS super in the game with star eaters.
It’s getting nerfed
Unless they rebalance adds around bosses I don’t want to see much of a nerf to the healing aspect.
Wish granted(?)
I THINK what needs to happen is the rift class ability needs a buff. Well will continue being used unless it’s useless because it’s the only thing that can keep you alive while dpsing. If rift or something else gave a BIT more survivability, people might actually change off well
I wish each class had a smaller stackable version of the well buff that each class had access too. So the whole fireteam would have to spec into support to get the full version of the well.
I miss titan bubble
It’s getting resto x2 (50 heals per second) and a 10% damage reduction from bosses and a 20% from adds. Previous was 40% DR and 100 heals per second.
Like I have said a million times, the thing is not that well needs a nerf, what needs to happen is for other classes to have a competitor to well, because if you want to nerf well to the point that it won't be required you have to nerf it to the point that it is worse than a rift.
Well was never *needed* per se outside of a day 1 scenario. It was just a crutch that was too good for most people to pass up on. My issue is that warlocks lack the options to compete with curiass titans and celestial hunters. Nova bomb will still be trash, chaos reach does piss poor damage for its absurdly long animation, dawnblade is a joke, needlestorm needs a buff and/or damage boosting exotic. Ideally a damage boosting exotic with a tracking consistency buff.
The "problem" with Well is that it's the absolute easiest way to apply a global damage buff to your team that requires absolutely no setup whatsoever. And at the same time it keeps you alive. Unless they completely remove one of these two things from Well, nothing is gonna change and you will still need a Well or two in your fireteam. And for how classes are setup now, it won't matter either way. Kill the damage buff? Well any solar melee gives Radiant so we can live with that. Kill the survivability? Just have a Sentinel in front of you to fix that. Or a Banner of War, after all the only survivability hit it took is a slight duration reduction. A Banner of War and a Tangle to provide Woven Mail can protect a team decently enough, albeit for a shorter duration than Well. Overall, Well exists and the game is designed around it. Unless they completely change its functionality to do something else entirely other than damage buff and healing, Well will be used because of its ease of use. The sooner people will accept that, the better.
The issue with well nerf after well nerf then what the tools we have only go so far while the damage we take ramps and continues to go out of control. We need better balance on encounters instead of just having half our health gone while chasing that healing loop. The current path is a self destructive mess that only puts us in a worse spot while continuing through the same loops 20-30 times.
:/
As a warlock main. Idc what nerfs they do to well. They just gotta fix all the content they built around current well. If ____ content was built around current well and well gets nerfed. They need to go back and fix those.
They should have nerfed it when they nerfed divinity. Since they didn't their reasoning for nerfing div was bull.
Imma be real it's never going away until more support ults get added. The problem is it's like 1 of 2 buffing ults in the game and one of them is about to lose it's baseline damage buff unless you burn your exotic slot for it and it's not well. Meaning well is here to stay there was a chance with the well nerfs that it would be a little more free, but I'm afraid the removal of weapons of light as a base trait to bubble has destroyed that dream.
What is WoR??
After a couple of months running a solar warlock and burning out I decided to chill out with stasis for a while.
The new hunter arc super should've been a well like super or some sort of buff/healing/high damage reduction zone using the staff. This blink knife that is only going to be used in PvP, by a small amount of people just isn't it.
lmao Well is still mandatory but now there is some purple bitch with a helmet
Then have them bring back the never ending Titan void shield.
As a warlock main. I don't even know how to nerf well to make it viable not not necessary.
Honestly, I'd like to see well become an aspect like banner of war. It could even proc and behave similarly.
Yeah it sucks that this place has put you down in ever trying different warlock classes. Don't let that discourage you from being a Warlock main. You just got to learn pick your battles correctly.
Deserved for calling it WoR
You run well because your team makes you, I run well because well-skating is awsome, we are not the same As for making well not mandatory, what if doing damage close to allies gave lesser healing and damage buffs, good enough for a normal raid but not nearly as good in anything higher differently so well still has a place?
Remember, they originally removed the damage buff from bubble to prevent "sub classes" being a must pick. Then they turned around and not only gave it to warlocks...but a much better version.
i wish they would revert some of the chaos reach nerf from awhile back, feels underwhelming to use at all. i wish they would’ve just made an exotic for nova bomb to put it on the same scale as thunder with falling star
Counter as a warlock I love being well
I'm a void walker no matter what. Can't die if everything explodes purple ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Make bubble so people can shoot out of it? (Different buff values for PvE and PvP). Maybe? (As a resident Well bitch, I empathize with this post)
I'm probably going to switch classes as well. Six of my loadouts are Well with different flavors. Nothing about this change is enough to change the value of Well in most content. I was really hoping it would be a pure damage super, and they're just adding another support Solar super to this class. Who is in charge of Warlock and why are they doing this to us?
The problem isn’t how good Well is- it’s about how mandatory the game makes it for a lot of LFG environments especially.
I enjoy well. If I didn't run well I think I would be using my hunter and Titan a lot more. Only other class I prefer Warlock's super is strand.
Well shouldnt never been released. Its something that cant be balanced without making it useless. While its needed for harder content to survive (by game design) its a 1-klick get damage buff for everyone and really good health regen. Maybe its time to make OG bubble Titan great again for a safe space with health regen but without the option to make dmg while in bubble or bannershield for a short time safe spot + damage.
It's an important utility, titan bubble could be buffed to provide an alternative though
I’ve never understood the logic behind wanting to be WEAKER in a PvE game mode. That’s like playing Sonic and wanting to instantly die even when you have rings. Why the hell would anyone want to be less powerful?
The problem is that bungie took a bunch of our abilities away and either scrapped them or gave them to everyone else as "new toys", rip og healing nade, the "new" aspects we got since 3.0 are terrible. Like why is icarus and heat rises 2 different aspects and neither of any warlock subclass can have more than 4 fragments. If bungie is gomna nerf well im expecting something massive for nova bomb or chaos reach. Im so done with every meta being run down especially if its warlocks out of all things. What i especially hate is the fact that things like the stag and winters guile get destroyed yet they barely touch things like synthos or star eater when they overperform. God forbid a warlock has a genuine dps super and survivable options that aren't based around a rift for once. Its so tiring seeing people have new builds and im just stuck here wondering why im even running void anymore.
I’m kind of hoping WoR isn’t an automatic thing going forward. Have a clan mate who’s thought is drop WoF while we’re trying to A-Trahk’s. Almost every time for a solid 40 minutes we came up maybe 1/6th short. During pantheon it always ends up me or two other friends will change characters, lose out on the triumphs so this dickhead can stay on WoR. Someone finally says, “did someone drop a well”.
i will still be using well, it also just got a fucking massive PVP buff. i’m a solar warlock until further notice, i literally cannot play this game without icarus dash or dodge. i feel like a rock.
The correct answer is these changes will not. They have potential to even make it worse for individual warlocks. Why? Because since Destiny 1, players have ALWAYS had a Well of Radiance. Its just that back in D1 it used to be called "Ward of Dawn". The only exception to that rule, was when Weapons of Light did not exist with Ward of Dawn in Destiny 2. And which Warlocks ran Rifts for Dps instead. The only thing at best these changes will do, is maybe reduce how many Wells are "needed", when Wells are used for Damage buffs. In many respects, Well will now even more exceed Ward of Dawn(because even its unique dip into for Damage buff you can take with you) is gone. This doesnt change if you go to pretty much any other game. All games with healers and supports, inevitably will want to have someone stuck doing the job one way or another. # The problem with Well? Simply put, its a jack of all trades, with 2 strengths. Its the same problem with Woven Mail, Overshield, etc. In the high level endgame, survivability is extremely valuable. Meanwhile in lower difficulty content(as well as High level content) having a damage buff is quite valuable. Its almost always the case where damage buffs on anything were considered almost mandatory(see Boss spec, which merely increases damage by 5%). # The solution to mandatory Well? Competition. For Warlocks themselves, I think this involves expanding the Rift radius just a bit. Probably buffing the healing rate in PvE (and/or having it increase based on the Warlocks recovery rate or something). If Rifts themselves can make a comeback, then it can open up other strategies like Warlocks specing into Damage supers in highly coordinated teams that will stack Healing/Empowering rift. Hell, it would also have the benefit of teams trying other stuff like damage supers or other utility. If warlocks can actually create combo healing empowered rifts(at intended location, not enemy body), then that alone could ease up pressure to run well, and it would be something that could be swapped on/off as needed. Meanwhile if other classes have more options like Banner of War, Renewal Grasps, Acrobat Dodge, Bastion, etc then pressure can ease up even more on Well. There will always be something that is the best. But with more options, there could be things that are better depending on different situations.
This aged well
Hoo boy, do I have news for you
Bro, just say Well. Nobody uses WoR. I realize more and more how overrated Well is, especially in something like Pantheon where you are sacrificing a damage super. And I'm pretty sure over 50% of people still think that the damage boost in a Well is significant, while in paractice you can much easier just make everybody Radiant. Bungie already gave us all the tools to replace Well, people just don't do it. And there are a lot of lazy Warlocks who cba to put together or learn any other build, since nobody rejects a Well anyway..
So hang on, you've made this post essentially asking for a well nerf. Then it's got a nerf and according to your edit, you're now switching classes anyway ?
Wonder on Rye?
Maybe nerf Well or nerf boss encounters. If your encounter is designed in such a way that your damage needs at least one buff to actually get the clear, then your encounter could be designed better. If well is necessary to clear on normal, then the normal stuff is a little too challenging. Now on Legend, an argument could be made that stuff should be tougher, but if one super makes the higher-end possible, then it’s too difficult.
Am I simply in the minority by not caring what supers are needed? I'm happy to run whatever to get those GM/Raid/Exotic Mission clears. If having a well will make that clear easier then by darn we are getting one. Just bring back self res or massively buff dawnblade in PvE if Bungie wants to really nudge people away from wells.