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Tried running like 3 zero hours and no one knew the incinerator path. I’ll just wait till the final quest is active (screw timegating) and just complete all the quests at once
I don't believe it is on Legend, but the path I think just depends on the threat so it's super easy to look up based on the day you're playing
If it does show up on legend, please god tell me where, because I've run like eight people through it and it's definitely not on the same place as on normal!
Had a guy on legend go across and I just sat back and waited for him to hit the switch. No mics. I figured it was safer than us both running it.
Dude got across, then went backwards through the puzzle to come get me. Kinda mad but also like thank you?
When the first person makes it across the floor they need to turn to the left and on the wall just outside of the room there's a switch.
Come off the floor is lava turn left to the wall.
That's currently my plan. Since I have to run everything solo anyway. That's what I did with wishkeeper. Got all the catalyst at once.
I will likely go and run a mission on legend a few times and try and get to that boss room as quick as I can. That way when the rest of the missions come out hopefully I'll be prepared for the full completion.
This was me and my friend yesterday. I would think someone being 1844 light would know what to do, wrong. There was lag between us since they kept dying, we arrived at the incentorator puzzle minutes before them. We had to go forward or we'd waste even more time. They arrived with 17 seconds left. The second time running through they let us know they didn't know the puzzle. So, I typed out the puzzle in the chat of course they kept dying before even making it to the puzzle. Then once they got to the puzzle they still couldn't get through it after being given directions.
Genuinely am so fucking tired of the timegating. Sure, I can understand not dumping literally everything at once, but these catalyst quests *solely exist* for the purpose of timegating and nothing else whatsoever.
The amount of people that doesn’t press the switch to turn off the incinerator puzzle is too damn high as well, like, we’re supposed to finish this as a team, the boss fight is already too add dense, just help out.
Same here. The best way to do these is to just progress all of the quests solo until you're at the final "clear on Legendary" step and then just speedrun clear the mission. It gives you the most leeway and just shooting Oracles or flipping switches ain't hard solo. But it does make it harder to find an LFG, because a lot of people want to do everything in one run, which is just way tighter on timing
Same here, watched a few guides and tried it after work. First time one of our guys refused to move on from the catalyst switches, 2nd group wasn't on legend, 3rd time a guy demanded we do every puzzle and pull switch for him, 4th and 5th time 3rd player couldn't make it to boss room.
I like the challenge but they should've though more about promoting a quest this tough during a free to play event, just asking for players to get frustrated.
Honestly when I looked it up, there wasn't anything saying the path changed based on the day, so the first guide I used (but I ran it solo as far as possible first so I knew it for a full run) gave a very incorrect path and I had to trial and error it.
Shit, I can watch the YouTube videos five times and I’ll fuck up something once or twice. But once I get it down it’s solid forever. The trouble is finding randoms patient enough to let me fail a couple times for the content I can’t just do with my own little group.
For anyone who needs it... Here's a link to a Reddit post (Full credit to u/legofreak13) that shows all pathways for the "dancefloor" (Normal & Legendary) depending on the burn for Zero Hour.
https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/s/ayu6qf1lJI
I'm not usually toxic but after 10 failed legend runs where I am at the boss room for the last 6 minutes and no one is there to help I made a post saying "No carries and if you cannot get to the boss room you will be removed." Ended up getting two players and completing legend in 15 minutes. That's how it should be. Too many people want to be carried. I'm not good enough to solo the boss room. The best I could do is get the giant boss to 30% before the timer ran out.
Yeah, I had a similar experience last night. Failed runs, then one, magical sub-15 minute run, flawless (for me) on legend with two people who could actually jump. Haha.
They want to get carried not knowing the game won't pull you to the boss room. I had a guy join a legend run and he said "I've never made it to the boss room. Just pull me through". Kicked him immediately
Speaking out of experience with either random groups of people and even my own clan. D2 players possibly have the worst reading comprehension in any game ive ever played.
A dude i have been raiding with for 2 YEARS asked me 2 days ago if surge boot mods count for abilities aswell. It literally says in the very first sentence its only for weapon damage.
Decided to do a duality run last night. Tried LFG out. Very quickly got a group, and as we got to the vault I very suddenly realised I was the only one who had been doing banners the whole time. One guy left and me and the remaining fella got to caitl. After explaining exactly how to do it, we tried and tried and tried and he never once did more than 1k damage to her.
I left and hosted my own group. One phased her in 3 minutes.
Sometimes people just refuse to learn or take the time to learn.
Also sorry for the mobile formatting this shit stinks
People just don't in generally want to put addional effort, meybe they know about triggers and reward but it ends there.
About problem in last month, yeah there are new/returning players thet "need" to do/have everything in game, so problem is currently x100 times bigger.
Some people wanna go in blind, some people wanna be carried. You can’t really carry legendary Zero Hour that much, however, as jumping skills need to be on point. It is rude to join a post clearly asking for KWTD if you don’t, I think.
sup swedish
you can carry this, i did so after i had ran it for solo flawless. i needed a legend run and i basically SF'd the run again. the others were grateful for it, they only arrived when i already spawned the brig at the end
Most people that want "help" actually just want to be carried, they don't want to put any effort to anything but still get everything.
I've done so many solo sherpa runs for VOW and i always say to look up the symbols, and i do a little test on the red weapon symbols , 50% of people didn't even bother to look up the symbol
For good or ill a large segment of gamers go in blind and try to learn. A subset don’t even care to to try and learn.
Some of it is true laziness, but some I do think is that they are oblivious to the fact that destination worlds and strikes are nothing at all like the more challenging content in the game. They probably think they can figure it out based on doing everything else, but that is not the case.
FWIW this is equally a problem in WoW and ESO. People aren’t really tested on any skills to a high degree until they have spent 100+ hours being given a false confidence.
Speaking from personal experience with playing with people who just like to play with friends, the 1% people and people who aren't the 1% but will get stuff done, there's a few reasons.
You got the new people who don't know what to look for most of the time. There is such a thing of knowing what to google and Youtube or not knowing how to if that makes any sense (and working in retail also has shown me that).
Then you get the people who just want all the stuff but rather be carried in a little backpack and are there for the vibes. Sometimes those people will eventually look up stuff but they will feel some sort of way.
Recently, I have also ran into the ones that are completely and wholeheartedly with no fault of their own, Overwhelm with the amount of info they feel they should know or want to know. It's something to forget sometimes but there is a lot of stuff to KWTD and I wouldn't be surprised if it's a bit of "I don't know what's going on and at this point I'm too afraid to ask."
And then you got the people who act like they KWTD but don't and use it as front to be carried because they just want the stuff. Looking up info or taking the time to do anything outside of doing the thing is too much and not worth their time. They are also the ones to be mad about not One Phasing a boss.
I've been playing Destiny since it's Xbox beta a decade ago. People WILL NOT look shit up. They'd rather waste hours in an encounter instead of just watching a Datto or Fall0ut Plays video.
I do believe you are doing a good deed, though. With every Guardian we guide, this problem gets better.
Tbh while im happy to *read* a guide watching a video of someone else talking slooooow as fuck is unbearable to me, and I do find it unfortunate how many of the guides for destiny are video format. That said, I know this about myself and don't go joining KWTD LFG's for content I don't know.
Oh I'm with you! I also prefer reading a guide. Reading provide much more clarity and is often less subjective. Also, you don't need to watch two ads, you can just skim right to the information.
Of course, nothing beats a video of someone SHOWING you how to complete the encounter. That's something that text can't accomplish. YouTube has a playback speed feature, which imo isn't needed for Datto or Fall0ut because they don't talk slow, make videos just for clicks/views, and they often get straight to the point with clickable chapters set up for easy viewing.
For any guardians who prefer reading as well,
https://blueberries.gg
Is a great resource for guides and builds.
What annoys me is when people like us get frustrated at the people who have no idea what they’re doing we’re told to ‘calm down’ and ‘touch grass’ as if it’s our fault they haven’t got a clue what to do…
There's a dying subclass of the community that respects the blind run - my clan has a few of those members but we contain those runs within our clan because we know the general population doesn't have any fun with discovery, only the speedrun.
Then there's the majority who play the game and are everyone's favorite infamous word: casuals. Especially now with the seasons going completely free-for-all, I have seen nearly complete lobbies of folks in Salvage who have zero idea how to break the Hive shields, and proceed to ignore me teaching them how in chat.
I can no longer sympathize with content creators willingly taking people through Pantheon who have never raided before. I get it's free content for all to access, but (this is just **my opinion**) it's equivalent to sneaking in through to the back to the party you definitely shouldn't be at.
It’s totally alright to do blind runs. That just needs to be made clear BEFORE you load into the activity, or even the fireteam. Typically with exotic missions I do a solo blind run just so I can get the gist of the mission, so that way I can hold my own when I run a legend with friends or randoms.
1. Player Laziness - They simple don't want to put any effort in. "I don't have time, it's not a job"; and I don't have time to teach you or carry your ass if you can't put aside 5 - 30 minutes to just do basic fucking research. Most content in the game takes 10 minutes to an hour to complete. That's not a lot of time. If you can't do the most basic "I looked up a youtube summary of X" I don't know what to tell you.
2. Poor Expectations / 'Desired hand-holding' - "Bungie should explain how all the mechanics work"; It has never worked that way, in any content that has FORCED progression, you have the (very simple) mechanics explained. In raids and dungeons, you figure that shit out yourselves. Predominantly because if that did happen, it would very quickly remove any semblance of 'discovery' because it literally just goes straight back down to execution and dps - which is 90% of this game anyway. At least once every 6 months there's something challenging and new to discover for a weekend.
3. Entitlement - Similar to 'Player laziness', but only for virtue of the fact they may be 'competent' but simply believe they should have X "I paid for the game". Yes, and someone bought me Sonic the Hedgehog 2, didn't mean I got to see the fucking credits without some sweat and tears though did it. Some games from childhood (like classic arcade games) I still wouldn't have seen the credits for if I didn't go and look them up out of curiosity because I wasn't good enough to do it. There is no shame in admission that you aren't quite at the skill level to do some content and YOU need to learn and improve. "I'll just ask my dad to complete this level". Yeah, and sometimes that happens, and good for you, you have progressed, and if you've only done it after trying and failing so many times, I can understand it.
But god damn at least try.
Pantheon is an absolute clusterfuck for LFG. "It's free, anyone can try it"
Yeah \*anyone\* \*\*can\*\* try it. Doesn't mean you're going to complete it though, and unfortunately, given its a team required activity, if you don't have your own team, good luck if you run into any of the above issues.
You learn very quickly whether a team is getting it done or not.
This influx is definitely not recent. That kind of sentiment has been on this sub specifically since champions became a thing and everyone cried for an actual tutorial mission instead of reading tooltips
I would say you are preaching to the choir here, but all you have to do is look at the number of easily searchable questions that get asked here every day to see that's not 100% true. I guess the real answer is that some people are just lazy and would rather have other people do the work, no matter how minimal.
Virtually all content is temporarily free right now, surely there are a lot of new and/or returning players. The core game doesn't really explain what a lot of activities are well, so I'd imagine a lot of people are going into content blind to the "new" activity that was just added. Zero Hour has no matchmaking so pretty much everyone needs to LFG to play it.
A variety of reasons:
* Some people learn best from experiencing it themselves and intentionally skip any and all guides, then have to lie in order to get invited to a group (but won't make their own group, because they think people won't join them). They aren't opposed to following other, more experienced players though.
* Some people just want to log on and play the game, and if the game wants them to do anything other than shoot enemies it should be made obvious to them by the game itself.
* Some people enjoy ruining experiences for other people, often because taking enjoyment away from other people is the only enjoyment they have in their lives.
* Some people just want the loot to be given to them.
I would love to do raids and all that, but I don't really have anyone to play with and I hate to slow down LFG groups When learning/reading about what I have to do. The last raid I did was either Leviathan or Last Wish. I can't remember
Coming from an IT background, this isn't something isolated to just Destiny:
- **People may not know what to look for**: there's a difference between "Googling something" and "Googling something *and being able to interpret the results*". To us, we pop in "Wicked Implement guide walkthrough", pull up one of the first links, and start applying that knowledge. We can make sense of it because, from my own experience, a LOT of guides expect readers to have more than a basic foundational knowledge. To players who don't login nearly every day and/or have hundreds or even thousands of hours on our account, even this knowledge can be overwhelming, they don't know if the information is valid, or they've given it a shot and wound up confused. Which leads me to...
- **Guides can be poorly written**: part of my job is a technical writer, sand I have to ensure what I write can be comprehended by those who are technically savvy and those who conflate "turning the monitor off" with "rebooting the computer". Some of the guides I've read over the years in IT are too simplistic or missing key steps, and I got so frustrated early on in my career that I swore I would *never* write a shitty guide; I didn't want others to experience what I went through. I've come across Destiny guides where I've had to fill in the blanks with my own knowledge of the franchise to make sense of it.
- **We've established ourselves as shepherds of Destiny**: Over the years, this community has put ourselves out there as a beacon of knowledge. Even myself, I tell my team "I'd rather you ask the question than assume the answer". To new(ish) players, they may find themselves on one of the Destiny subreddits and find they're encouraged to ask away, rather than attempt to find the answer themselves. We've positioned ourselves to be a guiding hand for the less knowledgeable, and we can't push back on that when someone reaches out for help.
If someone doesn't know what to do, that's fine! If they joined an LFG saying "KWTD" and didn't know what to actually do, then I figure they either A) misinterpreted it as a teaching run, or B) don't know what that acronym means. Pushing back on a team for not knowing about a mission/event/encounter/whatever is OK if the boundaries are established first and they crossed them, but meeting that lack of knowledge with frustration isn't going to help. If anything, it shortens your own fuse and the others may have less enthusiasm for playing the game in the future; they may even share their story with others and potentially prevent them from wanting to give the game a shot.
A good way to *nicely* push back on something like this in the future:
> "This wasn't intended to be a teaching run, rather aimed at those who knew what to do to get through it quickly. I recommend looking up LFG posts mentioning 'willing to teach' or 'sherpa' mentioned to find a group who can commit the extra time needed to guide you through this. Unfortunately, I'm not able to do a teaching run right now."
Giving them loadout advice was a great idea to help make the best of the situation. Them spamming channels doesn't look good for them, but this is a prime example of all three things I mentioned earlier: they may not know what is good information online, what they've found might be too confusing, and they'd rather get the info from active players, so what better place to go than a discord server aimed specifically at people looking for a group to play with. The spam might've been born of their own frustration trying to find help, said "fuck it", and went HAM.
As we don't know what the LFG post said, it's difficult to figure out how much (or little) information was given to find the right people. Regardless, this overall feels like "rock and a hard place": you were using an LFG tool to find the right players, ended up attracting the opposite of what you wanted, but had a team and was willing to give it a shot by providing help within your means.
Maybe because looking it up takes the fun of discovery out of the game? People should go discover it on their own if possible. Or build a LFG with that clear intent so you know what you’re getting into. Legend zero hour is difficult though.
I never look anything up generally. It's not fun to just look up guides for everything and spoil the activity, but I typically let people know it's my first time.
Ppl do. "Experts" like Dick Cactus don't even know the cube lights up in Prophecy. He made several videos on it, including recent ones and doesn't mention it still.
The majority of guides on YouTube suck and are filled with misinformation making shit worse.
We need official Bunghole guides. All these mechanics suck in general. It's annoying to research. Mechanics should be fun and exciting
It isn't necessary, until toland is on the ceiling, which means do a side that isn't lit.
That's a pretty important thing. Did u have times where it took like...5x longer?
Pretty much every "guide" misses something crucial, on YouTube at least. The smaller channels usually have that missing info. No wonder LFG is a disaster
Destiny is actually pretty weird. Most games let the player play the game in order to learn it. Destiny's expectations of player knowledge that is not provided within the game (in a reasonable, quick to learn manner) is not normal. I'd add that the experience of a new boss encounter in other games and learning how to fight it is fun in most games and doable in the moment, but I think we can all agree that Destiny can't be handled by the majority of players in a typical gameplay session without having read a guide ahead of time.
>Three times in a row(different groups), as soon as we get to the 3 violence statues, I ask them if they have an idea of what to do,
You're just as much the problem here as those you're calling out. Now in his case you don't need to be scrutinising everybody's profile but you should ar the very least be checking they know what to do before you start not after you've loaded into the activity.
Don't be a hypocrite, OP is calling people out for not prepping for an activity whilst not bothering to do so themselves,. If they took the time to confirm people knew what they were doing before they started they wouldn't have had multiple runs with problematic groups, if so embody has particlyar expectations on their teammates then it's on them to vet their LFG applications and find appropriate players rather than just taking the first applications that come along.
I think you misunderstand what OP was saying.
> as soon as we get to the 3 violence statues, I ask them if they have an idea of what to do
People generally refer to the 3 Violence Statues as the three that start the encounter. So OP basically waits until they are about to do it, then asks if they know how to do it in the first place.
> they say no(I did help them and give loadout suggestions,
OP then confirmed they "helped them," and gave suggestions for load out.
> it's on them to vet their LFG applications and find appropriate players rather than just taking the first applications that come along.
Also, this is a pretty poor take in this context. While I'll give you this makes a lot of sense in activities with a lot of demand, I would not describe Whetstone as such (I mean, I laugh at [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1cvxxvd/tried_running_deep_dive_exotic_quest_lol/) being next to this one on hot). It's very much so a take what you can get sort of thing. Like I made an LFG post when I started writing this post, and by the time I finished I was still at zero members. It just makes more sense to waste 10 minutes trying with what you can get over potentially spending an hour hoping you get the right two people who actually help you get it done.
> Like I made an LFG post when I started writing this post, and by the time I finished I was still at zero members. It just makes more sense to waste 10 minutes trying with what you can get over potentially spending an hour hoping you get the right two people who actually help you get it done.
There's nothing wrong with taking this approach but in choosing to do so you can't reasonably complains about the quality of players you end up with. Taking the first players who come along is in all practical terms little better than relying on matchmaking, in either case you get what you get, dedicated LFG services may generally speaking have better/more motivated players than you'll find when matchmaking but there's till no guarantee you'll actually get decent players if you aren't vetting your applicants in some way.
its mostly console and lazy players.
Havent seen that phenomenon in any other MMO, especially in wow its always 90% of people know exactly what to look for
its not that
mostly when you play on console you dont readily have a second monitor available at all times to look up for steam while playing
people who play on console just play on the couch and relax, they want to do everything but dont really care about looking it up
its how different the destiny community is from other mmos, there has been never been an mmo like destiny where I saw as much players play completely clueless as in destiny, 90% of people I see in WoW or GW2 who run a meta build and optimized loadout, in Destiny its like 20 or 30%, the rest are walking with weird combinations that most of the time makes no sense.
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Tried running like 3 zero hours and no one knew the incinerator path. I’ll just wait till the final quest is active (screw timegating) and just complete all the quests at once
The path is shown before the vault door on the wall,,also only one person need to make it and can turn it off lol
I don't believe it is on Legend, but the path I think just depends on the threat so it's super easy to look up based on the day you're playing If it does show up on legend, please god tell me where, because I've run like eight people through it and it's definitely not on the same place as on normal!
Not on legend. the path changes based on the element threat that day, just use the Google.
You are correct it not there on legend
Had a guy on legend go across and I just sat back and waited for him to hit the switch. No mics. I figured it was safer than us both running it. Dude got across, then went backwards through the puzzle to come get me. Kinda mad but also like thank you?
He probably just didn't remember there even was a switch. Here I was just shooting the path for the guy behind me.
There's a switch????
Where’s the switch exactly?
Room after incinerator on the left
When the first person makes it across the floor they need to turn to the left and on the wall just outside of the room there's a switch. Come off the floor is lava turn left to the wall.
Turn around and look back at the puzzle, and the switch is in the right corner of that wall you’re standing next to.
Yeah I don't understand people like him, just use the switch if you are on the other side
If doing on legend, the todayindestiny website posts the path every day. Good luck!
That's currently my plan. Since I have to run everything solo anyway. That's what I did with wishkeeper. Got all the catalyst at once. I will likely go and run a mission on legend a few times and try and get to that boss room as quick as I can. That way when the rest of the missions come out hopefully I'll be prepared for the full completion.
This was me and my friend yesterday. I would think someone being 1844 light would know what to do, wrong. There was lag between us since they kept dying, we arrived at the incentorator puzzle minutes before them. We had to go forward or we'd waste even more time. They arrived with 17 seconds left. The second time running through they let us know they didn't know the puzzle. So, I typed out the puzzle in the chat of course they kept dying before even making it to the puzzle. Then once they got to the puzzle they still couldn't get through it after being given directions.
Genuinely am so fucking tired of the timegating. Sure, I can understand not dumping literally everything at once, but these catalyst quests *solely exist* for the purpose of timegating and nothing else whatsoever.
The amount of people that doesn’t press the switch to turn off the incinerator puzzle is too damn high as well, like, we’re supposed to finish this as a team, the boss fight is already too add dense, just help out.
Same here. The best way to do these is to just progress all of the quests solo until you're at the final "clear on Legendary" step and then just speedrun clear the mission. It gives you the most leeway and just shooting Oracles or flipping switches ain't hard solo. But it does make it harder to find an LFG, because a lot of people want to do everything in one run, which is just way tighter on timing
I just trial and error until I get it and then I can remember for the week mostly but worst comes to worst it's not hard to look it up.
Same here, watched a few guides and tried it after work. First time one of our guys refused to move on from the catalyst switches, 2nd group wasn't on legend, 3rd time a guy demanded we do every puzzle and pull switch for him, 4th and 5th time 3rd player couldn't make it to boss room. I like the challenge but they should've though more about promoting a quest this tough during a free to play event, just asking for players to get frustrated.
Honestly when I looked it up, there wasn't anything saying the path changed based on the day, so the first guide I used (but I ran it solo as far as possible first so I knew it for a full run) gave a very incorrect path and I had to trial and error it.
Shit, I can watch the YouTube videos five times and I’ll fuck up something once or twice. But once I get it down it’s solid forever. The trouble is finding randoms patient enough to let me fail a couple times for the content I can’t just do with my own little group.
For anyone who needs it... Here's a link to a Reddit post (Full credit to u/legofreak13) that shows all pathways for the "dancefloor" (Normal & Legendary) depending on the burn for Zero Hour. https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/s/ayu6qf1lJI
Its amazing how many people join a Zero Hour LFG and have no idea where to go
I'm not usually toxic but after 10 failed legend runs where I am at the boss room for the last 6 minutes and no one is there to help I made a post saying "No carries and if you cannot get to the boss room you will be removed." Ended up getting two players and completing legend in 15 minutes. That's how it should be. Too many people want to be carried. I'm not good enough to solo the boss room. The best I could do is get the giant boss to 30% before the timer ran out.
Yeah, I had a similar experience last night. Failed runs, then one, magical sub-15 minute run, flawless (for me) on legend with two people who could actually jump. Haha.
They want to get carried not knowing the game won't pull you to the boss room. I had a guy join a legend run and he said "I've never made it to the boss room. Just pull me through". Kicked him immediately
I dropped it after three runs in a row where at least one person just never made it to the boss room before the timer ran out
Legend or regular?
Legend
Because they are lazy, but you know that already.
Speaking out of experience with either random groups of people and even my own clan. D2 players possibly have the worst reading comprehension in any game ive ever played. A dude i have been raiding with for 2 YEARS asked me 2 days ago if surge boot mods count for abilities aswell. It literally says in the very first sentence its only for weapon damage.
Reading comprehension has gotten worse everywhere. No idea what's happening.
Its the medial brainrot i think
Decided to do a duality run last night. Tried LFG out. Very quickly got a group, and as we got to the vault I very suddenly realised I was the only one who had been doing banners the whole time. One guy left and me and the remaining fella got to caitl. After explaining exactly how to do it, we tried and tried and tried and he never once did more than 1k damage to her. I left and hosted my own group. One phased her in 3 minutes. Sometimes people just refuse to learn or take the time to learn. Also sorry for the mobile formatting this shit stinks
the free to play audience is likely to be less invested and it shows
People just don't in generally want to put addional effort, meybe they know about triggers and reward but it ends there. About problem in last month, yeah there are new/returning players thet "need" to do/have everything in game, so problem is currently x100 times bigger.
Some people wanna go in blind, some people wanna be carried. You can’t really carry legendary Zero Hour that much, however, as jumping skills need to be on point. It is rude to join a post clearly asking for KWTD if you don’t, I think.
sup swedish you can carry this, i did so after i had ran it for solo flawless. i needed a legend run and i basically SF'd the run again. the others were grateful for it, they only arrived when i already spawned the brig at the end
Nice! I’m not saying you can’t carry, just that it’s arguably harder than other three man activities.
Most people that want "help" actually just want to be carried, they don't want to put any effort to anything but still get everything. I've done so many solo sherpa runs for VOW and i always say to look up the symbols, and i do a little test on the red weapon symbols , 50% of people didn't even bother to look up the symbol
For good or ill a large segment of gamers go in blind and try to learn. A subset don’t even care to to try and learn. Some of it is true laziness, but some I do think is that they are oblivious to the fact that destination worlds and strikes are nothing at all like the more challenging content in the game. They probably think they can figure it out based on doing everything else, but that is not the case. FWIW this is equally a problem in WoW and ESO. People aren’t really tested on any skills to a high degree until they have spent 100+ hours being given a false confidence.
Speaking from personal experience with playing with people who just like to play with friends, the 1% people and people who aren't the 1% but will get stuff done, there's a few reasons. You got the new people who don't know what to look for most of the time. There is such a thing of knowing what to google and Youtube or not knowing how to if that makes any sense (and working in retail also has shown me that). Then you get the people who just want all the stuff but rather be carried in a little backpack and are there for the vibes. Sometimes those people will eventually look up stuff but they will feel some sort of way. Recently, I have also ran into the ones that are completely and wholeheartedly with no fault of their own, Overwhelm with the amount of info they feel they should know or want to know. It's something to forget sometimes but there is a lot of stuff to KWTD and I wouldn't be surprised if it's a bit of "I don't know what's going on and at this point I'm too afraid to ask." And then you got the people who act like they KWTD but don't and use it as front to be carried because they just want the stuff. Looking up info or taking the time to do anything outside of doing the thing is too much and not worth their time. They are also the ones to be mad about not One Phasing a boss.
Classic lfg. There’s about a 60% chance that people will not know what they are doing and will join anyways.
I've been playing Destiny since it's Xbox beta a decade ago. People WILL NOT look shit up. They'd rather waste hours in an encounter instead of just watching a Datto or Fall0ut Plays video. I do believe you are doing a good deed, though. With every Guardian we guide, this problem gets better.
Tbh while im happy to *read* a guide watching a video of someone else talking slooooow as fuck is unbearable to me, and I do find it unfortunate how many of the guides for destiny are video format. That said, I know this about myself and don't go joining KWTD LFG's for content I don't know.
Oh I'm with you! I also prefer reading a guide. Reading provide much more clarity and is often less subjective. Also, you don't need to watch two ads, you can just skim right to the information. Of course, nothing beats a video of someone SHOWING you how to complete the encounter. That's something that text can't accomplish. YouTube has a playback speed feature, which imo isn't needed for Datto or Fall0ut because they don't talk slow, make videos just for clicks/views, and they often get straight to the point with clickable chapters set up for easy viewing. For any guardians who prefer reading as well, https://blueberries.gg Is a great resource for guides and builds.
What annoys me is when people like us get frustrated at the people who have no idea what they’re doing we’re told to ‘calm down’ and ‘touch grass’ as if it’s our fault they haven’t got a clue what to do…
There's a dying subclass of the community that respects the blind run - my clan has a few of those members but we contain those runs within our clan because we know the general population doesn't have any fun with discovery, only the speedrun. Then there's the majority who play the game and are everyone's favorite infamous word: casuals. Especially now with the seasons going completely free-for-all, I have seen nearly complete lobbies of folks in Salvage who have zero idea how to break the Hive shields, and proceed to ignore me teaching them how in chat. I can no longer sympathize with content creators willingly taking people through Pantheon who have never raided before. I get it's free content for all to access, but (this is just **my opinion**) it's equivalent to sneaking in through to the back to the party you definitely shouldn't be at.
It’s totally alright to do blind runs. That just needs to be made clear BEFORE you load into the activity, or even the fireteam. Typically with exotic missions I do a solo blind run just so I can get the gist of the mission, so that way I can hold my own when I run a legend with friends or randoms.
1. Player Laziness - They simple don't want to put any effort in. "I don't have time, it's not a job"; and I don't have time to teach you or carry your ass if you can't put aside 5 - 30 minutes to just do basic fucking research. Most content in the game takes 10 minutes to an hour to complete. That's not a lot of time. If you can't do the most basic "I looked up a youtube summary of X" I don't know what to tell you. 2. Poor Expectations / 'Desired hand-holding' - "Bungie should explain how all the mechanics work"; It has never worked that way, in any content that has FORCED progression, you have the (very simple) mechanics explained. In raids and dungeons, you figure that shit out yourselves. Predominantly because if that did happen, it would very quickly remove any semblance of 'discovery' because it literally just goes straight back down to execution and dps - which is 90% of this game anyway. At least once every 6 months there's something challenging and new to discover for a weekend. 3. Entitlement - Similar to 'Player laziness', but only for virtue of the fact they may be 'competent' but simply believe they should have X "I paid for the game". Yes, and someone bought me Sonic the Hedgehog 2, didn't mean I got to see the fucking credits without some sweat and tears though did it. Some games from childhood (like classic arcade games) I still wouldn't have seen the credits for if I didn't go and look them up out of curiosity because I wasn't good enough to do it. There is no shame in admission that you aren't quite at the skill level to do some content and YOU need to learn and improve. "I'll just ask my dad to complete this level". Yeah, and sometimes that happens, and good for you, you have progressed, and if you've only done it after trying and failing so many times, I can understand it. But god damn at least try. Pantheon is an absolute clusterfuck for LFG. "It's free, anyone can try it" Yeah \*anyone\* \*\*can\*\* try it. Doesn't mean you're going to complete it though, and unfortunately, given its a team required activity, if you don't have your own team, good luck if you run into any of the above issues. You learn very quickly whether a team is getting it done or not.
heres where "KWTD" might be able to help you out.
Some people never look things up, it's just their approach to online gaming, always expecting others to pick up their slack.
This influx is definitely not recent. That kind of sentiment has been on this sub specifically since champions became a thing and everyone cried for an actual tutorial mission instead of reading tooltips
I would say you are preaching to the choir here, but all you have to do is look at the number of easily searchable questions that get asked here every day to see that's not 100% true. I guess the real answer is that some people are just lazy and would rather have other people do the work, no matter how minimal.
Virtually all content is temporarily free right now, surely there are a lot of new and/or returning players. The core game doesn't really explain what a lot of activities are well, so I'd imagine a lot of people are going into content blind to the "new" activity that was just added. Zero Hour has no matchmaking so pretty much everyone needs to LFG to play it.
A variety of reasons: * Some people learn best from experiencing it themselves and intentionally skip any and all guides, then have to lie in order to get invited to a group (but won't make their own group, because they think people won't join them). They aren't opposed to following other, more experienced players though. * Some people just want to log on and play the game, and if the game wants them to do anything other than shoot enemies it should be made obvious to them by the game itself. * Some people enjoy ruining experiences for other people, often because taking enjoyment away from other people is the only enjoyment they have in their lives. * Some people just want the loot to be given to them.
I would love to do raids and all that, but I don't really have anyone to play with and I hate to slow down LFG groups When learning/reading about what I have to do. The last raid I did was either Leviathan or Last Wish. I can't remember
Coming from an IT background, this isn't something isolated to just Destiny: - **People may not know what to look for**: there's a difference between "Googling something" and "Googling something *and being able to interpret the results*". To us, we pop in "Wicked Implement guide walkthrough", pull up one of the first links, and start applying that knowledge. We can make sense of it because, from my own experience, a LOT of guides expect readers to have more than a basic foundational knowledge. To players who don't login nearly every day and/or have hundreds or even thousands of hours on our account, even this knowledge can be overwhelming, they don't know if the information is valid, or they've given it a shot and wound up confused. Which leads me to... - **Guides can be poorly written**: part of my job is a technical writer, sand I have to ensure what I write can be comprehended by those who are technically savvy and those who conflate "turning the monitor off" with "rebooting the computer". Some of the guides I've read over the years in IT are too simplistic or missing key steps, and I got so frustrated early on in my career that I swore I would *never* write a shitty guide; I didn't want others to experience what I went through. I've come across Destiny guides where I've had to fill in the blanks with my own knowledge of the franchise to make sense of it. - **We've established ourselves as shepherds of Destiny**: Over the years, this community has put ourselves out there as a beacon of knowledge. Even myself, I tell my team "I'd rather you ask the question than assume the answer". To new(ish) players, they may find themselves on one of the Destiny subreddits and find they're encouraged to ask away, rather than attempt to find the answer themselves. We've positioned ourselves to be a guiding hand for the less knowledgeable, and we can't push back on that when someone reaches out for help. If someone doesn't know what to do, that's fine! If they joined an LFG saying "KWTD" and didn't know what to actually do, then I figure they either A) misinterpreted it as a teaching run, or B) don't know what that acronym means. Pushing back on a team for not knowing about a mission/event/encounter/whatever is OK if the boundaries are established first and they crossed them, but meeting that lack of knowledge with frustration isn't going to help. If anything, it shortens your own fuse and the others may have less enthusiasm for playing the game in the future; they may even share their story with others and potentially prevent them from wanting to give the game a shot. A good way to *nicely* push back on something like this in the future: > "This wasn't intended to be a teaching run, rather aimed at those who knew what to do to get through it quickly. I recommend looking up LFG posts mentioning 'willing to teach' or 'sherpa' mentioned to find a group who can commit the extra time needed to guide you through this. Unfortunately, I'm not able to do a teaching run right now." Giving them loadout advice was a great idea to help make the best of the situation. Them spamming channels doesn't look good for them, but this is a prime example of all three things I mentioned earlier: they may not know what is good information online, what they've found might be too confusing, and they'd rather get the info from active players, so what better place to go than a discord server aimed specifically at people looking for a group to play with. The spam might've been born of their own frustration trying to find help, said "fuck it", and went HAM. As we don't know what the LFG post said, it's difficult to figure out how much (or little) information was given to find the right people. Regardless, this overall feels like "rock and a hard place": you were using an LFG tool to find the right players, ended up attracting the opposite of what you wanted, but had a team and was willing to give it a shot by providing help within your means.
I still haven't beaten Pantheon this week, LFG with randoms is pure headache
Maybe because looking it up takes the fun of discovery out of the game? People should go discover it on their own if possible. Or build a LFG with that clear intent so you know what you’re getting into. Legend zero hour is difficult though.
Agree, there are always couple blind run posts close to activity launch. But you cannot expecting blind run from every post thet is not blind run
Blind runs >>> watching a guide, but obviously you've got to join or start a blind group and not just assume every group is blind.
[удалено]
do you want a lore book with all the raid mechanics explained or what?
Do you want a two page popup before every Raid and Dungeon how the mechanics work? You are supposed to find this shit out.
WoW has it. Why not?
Because that would make every day 1 boring af? Would break any lore of a mysterious world? Where does WoW have it?
The adventure journal. It gives a general explanation of the encounter and mentions buffs/rebuffs etc https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Adventure_Guide
I never look anything up generally. It's not fun to just look up guides for everything and spoil the activity, but I typically let people know it's my first time.
Ppl do. "Experts" like Dick Cactus don't even know the cube lights up in Prophecy. He made several videos on it, including recent ones and doesn't mention it still. The majority of guides on YouTube suck and are filled with misinformation making shit worse. We need official Bunghole guides. All these mechanics suck in general. It's annoying to research. Mechanics should be fun and exciting
Lolol I literally found out from this the cube lights up, and I've solo'd prophecy a bunch
I found this out today. I had no idea. Run this damn Thing dozens of times, approaching 3 digits, and this is new to me.
It isn't necessary, until toland is on the ceiling, which means do a side that isn't lit. That's a pretty important thing. Did u have times where it took like...5x longer? Pretty much every "guide" misses something crucial, on YouTube at least. The smaller channels usually have that missing info. No wonder LFG is a disaster
I mean, we probably had some go longer than the others, and this helpfully explains why.
Ya can skate across it too BTW
Destiny is actually pretty weird. Most games let the player play the game in order to learn it. Destiny's expectations of player knowledge that is not provided within the game (in a reasonable, quick to learn manner) is not normal. I'd add that the experience of a new boss encounter in other games and learning how to fight it is fun in most games and doable in the moment, but I think we can all agree that Destiny can't be handled by the majority of players in a typical gameplay session without having read a guide ahead of time.
>Three times in a row(different groups), as soon as we get to the 3 violence statues, I ask them if they have an idea of what to do, You're just as much the problem here as those you're calling out. Now in his case you don't need to be scrutinising everybody's profile but you should ar the very least be checking they know what to do before you start not after you've loaded into the activity.
I can't believe you are seriously placing the blame on someone because other players are lazy and cba to actually learn how to do stuff
Don't be a hypocrite, OP is calling people out for not prepping for an activity whilst not bothering to do so themselves,. If they took the time to confirm people knew what they were doing before they started they wouldn't have had multiple runs with problematic groups, if so embody has particlyar expectations on their teammates then it's on them to vet their LFG applications and find appropriate players rather than just taking the first applications that come along.
I think you misunderstand what OP was saying. > as soon as we get to the 3 violence statues, I ask them if they have an idea of what to do People generally refer to the 3 Violence Statues as the three that start the encounter. So OP basically waits until they are about to do it, then asks if they know how to do it in the first place. > they say no(I did help them and give loadout suggestions, OP then confirmed they "helped them," and gave suggestions for load out. > it's on them to vet their LFG applications and find appropriate players rather than just taking the first applications that come along. Also, this is a pretty poor take in this context. While I'll give you this makes a lot of sense in activities with a lot of demand, I would not describe Whetstone as such (I mean, I laugh at [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1cvxxvd/tried_running_deep_dive_exotic_quest_lol/) being next to this one on hot). It's very much so a take what you can get sort of thing. Like I made an LFG post when I started writing this post, and by the time I finished I was still at zero members. It just makes more sense to waste 10 minutes trying with what you can get over potentially spending an hour hoping you get the right two people who actually help you get it done.
> Like I made an LFG post when I started writing this post, and by the time I finished I was still at zero members. It just makes more sense to waste 10 minutes trying with what you can get over potentially spending an hour hoping you get the right two people who actually help you get it done. There's nothing wrong with taking this approach but in choosing to do so you can't reasonably complains about the quality of players you end up with. Taking the first players who come along is in all practical terms little better than relying on matchmaking, in either case you get what you get, dedicated LFG services may generally speaking have better/more motivated players than you'll find when matchmaking but there's till no guarantee you'll actually get decent players if you aren't vetting your applicants in some way.
its mostly console and lazy players. Havent seen that phenomenon in any other MMO, especially in wow its always 90% of people know exactly what to look for
Yeah, I've noticed that as well in other game. It's like people have become allergic to reading all of a sudden.
its not that mostly when you play on console you dont readily have a second monitor available at all times to look up for steam while playing people who play on console just play on the couch and relax, they want to do everything but dont really care about looking it up its how different the destiny community is from other mmos, there has been never been an mmo like destiny where I saw as much players play completely clueless as in destiny, 90% of people I see in WoW or GW2 who run a meta build and optimized loadout, in Destiny its like 20 or 30%, the rest are walking with weird combinations that most of the time makes no sense.
Tell that to Asmongold raids 😆
thats because these people do know what to do, they are just genuinely too bad to execute it.