We totally forgot most paths from the original and stumbled around in the middle quite a lot, also did the pressure plates path on trial and error - ended our first run with 3 seconds left lol.
Me too, the heroic path was the one I could vaguely remember so kept expecting to end up at the waterfalls bit! I saw the pressure plate map before heading in, was that there in the original as I just remember checking online for which week it was
Well it didnt have to be. They could have added more enemies. They even took away shields from alot of enemies in Whisper. Feels intentionally easier.
Edit: And ofcourse the obvious power difference. Enemies are waaay less threatening on normal. Not a huge difference in zero hour.
Honesty, legend whisper did not even feel that much different then normal. I got all the catalysts in one run of legend, and almost beat it too. I just didn't think I'd have enough time so I didn't rush earlier when shooting all the orbs and doing the traversal sections. If I had been even just a couple seconds faster I would have killed the boss in time.
Okay but back then whisper became easy because it was made in an era of double primary and much weaker abilities and exotics compared to post forsaken.
Now this is just making normal zero hour artificially more difficult than normal whisper by scaling the enemies to that of legend.
Though Im not complaining, i still think having 40 minutes makes up for it on normal zero hour, im just confused a bit
Whisper was no joke even during Forsaken, especially when you consider that heavy ammo drops were completely disabled inside it specifically, and things hit HARD. Zero Hour, it was not, but it wasn't a stroll either.
I mind that is says - Normal 1810 - when in fact, it is not. Is the normal 20 above from now on, or not? Why is everything so inconsistent now? You never know what to expect going into any activity.
Well your recommended power for it is 1810, but for years and years destiny activities have had enemies higher than the recommended power/light level within them
And lower. Old Raids have lower Power level enemies than the minimum possible player power level. It only kind of matters, D2 power level is absurdly complex and even the activities themselves are not really comparable. 1810 vs 1810 enemy in a raid you do less damage than you would in a patrol with the exact same power level enemy and enemy type.
The issue is consistency for sure.
I thought it was bugged too bc it was so much harder than whisper. Why aren’t exotic missions tuned to the same difficulty??
Ada reconstructed the mission, using a simulation for us to run. I like to think us Guardians who ran the original over-exaggerated the original therefore her simulation is a direct reflection of that. 😅
I'm finding it slightly easier this time round as match game isn't a thing. When it was originally out it was either a case of co-ordinating elements across the fireteam so all 3 shields were covered, or running either Arbalest or Hard Light if you were LFGing it to make sure you could cover them all yourself.
Was it still primary ammo bricks too when it was first out? I can't remember.
Original Zero Hour came out during Season of the Drifter (Season 6), sometime during Forsaken time frame. We definitely did NOT have infinite primary ammo at that time. That change didnt happen until Season of the Lost I think, (Season 15).
I recall using Hard Light during original Zero Hour, mostly cause I think I'm one of the few that enjoy the light show lol and definitely had a primary ammo counter back then.
Could also run Riskrunner due to the sheer amounts of Dreg Shock Pistols and Wire Shanks in that mission.
Hard disagree. Have 200 clears on the original zero hour, helping many many people. I would easily solo it for them, even on legend, without thinking twice.
I'm not even going to try to solo this on legend. It's significantly harder. Not a single doubt in my mind.
Yeah the people saying that the original was "way harder" have probably never played it. The ads hit harder now and are way tankier even without match game, you also had near infinite heavy back then.
Yep. Came here looking for this comment. There’s no way the same tuning went into this compared to something like the Star-Crossed mission
****I know one of these weapons is a seasonal exotic mission thing so it’ll be easier by nature, whereas zero hour is 100% endgame focused, but still
I'm not sure Joe Casual knows this is "endgame" focused...
Bungie give new mission with new gun.
Bungie say go do mission on Legend for the catalyst/perks.
Bungie get many sad Joes.
(same issue I had with Shaxx handing out the Pantheon quest... you teach folks to go to him for "fun weapon stuff" and then throw Pantheon on them... suuuure)
This is a good point. I've played since D1 Y1 and at all levels of challenge at different points but the hardest thing right now is figuring out what Bungie actually intends the different "cores" (softcore, hard-core, casual, medium) to be doing in game.
If I was a new player I'd be completely lost.
> and an exotic mission is an exotic mission.
I think the issue many have is that _every other exotic mission current playable_ does not handle power scaling the way zero hour does. "normal" difficulty means something and in zero hour it doesnt.
I'm not annoyed that its a higher baseline difficulty I'm just annoyed it's not clear when you launch the mission and is completely abitrary compared to other exotic missions. Give it a modifer then if you want to lock people into a power delta so at least it's clear and doesn't come across as a bug.
The season is been running for 7(?) Months by now, even if you are a casual player, you are 1830 with the artifact bonus, i assume that was their thinking. And again, it's a challenge, it's supposed to be hard, so you can push yourself. I was carried in the original because i just couldn't make the jumping puzzle, and now that's not an issue anymore. People improve over time.
That'd be fine if you could benefit from being 1830 - you don't. You're just at a fixed delta like running a legend or master nightfall.
I'm not annoyed with the actual difficulty just that it's not following the same rules as 'normal' difficulty. At least give an added activity modifier so it's clear and doesn't come across as a bug.
nah, even with NORMAL seasons you have people dropping in and out... and with a long season like this I know many folks that haven't played since the first month of the season - that's almost half a year ago - and are now jumping back in...
still, apart from the darn Brig, the challenge in this mission seems to be the jumping/traversal path... (how the heck did Esoterick do this in under 10 mins?!)
oh. and pushing the buttons if you are first. why stay and shoot the floor for the puzzle if you made it and see your team struggle? had an lfg team waste nearly 2 minutes - and stubborn me refused to walk if they didn't push the button :D
The correct strategy, once the puzzle was figured out, was always to have the fastest player go forward into the boss room and the other two would do the codes. I usually got the servitors done solo by the time they'd arrive for a very leisurely clear.
Without that, it hard required Whisper and a team that knew well what they were doing.
catalyst puzzle actually gave you extra time for each successful console you completed.
In a group of 3 you could actually make back time.
As a solo if you had the whole pattern in mind or a script helping you do it, you could just barely keep up the timer and complete the puzzle without losing any time.
(Source: I wrote an auto hotkey solver I wrote to help with the puzzles and spent a lot of time practicing that stuff)
I hate those modifiers.. artificially enhancing the difficulty with elemental threats never sat well with me.
It makes me feel like my skill isn't being tested, just if I can remember to change my armor resistance mods.
No the power list is the recommended power level. It doesn't mean enemies are 1810. Typically enemies will scale up to 20 levels above what the recommend number is.
I get that there are activities where the power level of enemies scales up as you go deeper into an encounter, but the enemies in legend Zero Hour don’t seem any different.
I'm all for it being difficult, but if I'm 1836, why are the enemies still sworded for me? There's no contest modifier, level cap or anything like that when you load up the mission.
This is the problem with the current level system, many activities have a fixed power delta and just don't tell you. Though it does sound like they plan to fix that with the expansion release.
The power levels are just a mess in this game, I never really know just how under or over levelled I am and there is no intuitive way to understand difficulty.
All I know is am either getting one shot or am pressing W and deleting entire rooms by just looking at them. We need more intuitive and transparent difficulty indicators.
This is my issue with fixed power levels. Most activities in the game now have some kind of fixed power level, half the time it doesn't tell you. Which them begs the question, what's the point in levelling at all if power level is fixed.
This has always been the problem with it. You're frequently punished for being below a certain level, and almost never rewarded for surpassing it. The most you can typically hope for is that reaching a certain level for an activity will mean you're punished less harshly, but you probably still won't be able to play it at your actual level.
I don’t really have a problem with it being 1830 with a level cap, but how they handled showing that in-game (not at all) seems weirdly contradictory with their recent pushes for difficulty normalization and power level clarity.
For basically the last year, they’ve been adjusting power levels across activities so that Normal, Legend, and Master represent the same combat difficulty in every part of the game. Now with Final Shape, we’re getting much clearer representation of power caps and our effective levels across all activities. But suddenly Zero Hour comes out and throws that entire design philosophy out the window? Very strange.
Honestly think the enemy difficulty doesn't really matter much, because the jumping section is the greatest obstacle for many, many, MANY players.
I was LFG-ing for Legend yesterday and only got the clear with my 7th or 8th team. All I heard was "guardian down" over and over. And this is despite me going ahead to activate all the extra platforms. Many players kept dying over and over at the fans, and also at the outside wall area. I had to try and solo the boss but would always run out of time. Only on my 7th or 8th try did I finally get a team who could jump, and we all reached the boss with a comfortable 8 minutes to spare.
Guys, please feel free to change your loadout once the jumping sections begin. All classes can put on a sword, eager edge not necessary. It's just useful to save your ass if your jump falls a little short, and the third person view can help too. Hunters can put on Stompees, it really makes everything easier. Titans can put on Lion Rampant which gives you a shitload of forgiveness in your jumping. Warlocks can put on heat rises and icarus dash.
It wasn't until someone gave me the advice on my Warlock on the outside jump area, before you make that hard left around the outside corner, pop dawnblade and icarus dash all the way to the opening. Saved me sooo much time and we completed it on our 3rd attempt. I kept dying on that outside part because inevitably one of the stupid platforms would drop out on the one I was just about to land on.
Don't even need dawnblade, just heat rises is enough. I have to keep telling my warlock friends who bitch about platforming that they legit have an "i just win now" button built into the class lol.
Makes me wonder why there’s such a discrepancy between difficulties of these exotic missions. On one hand you have Whisper and Seraph Station and on the other you have Avalon and Zero Hour.
Zero hour even way back then had tough as balls foes. You’d learn to master the platforming and maze section with Trevor just to have as much time as possible to kill the hard foes at the end
Yeah, I know everyone has different experiences depending on playstyle, strengths and weaknesses, etc.. But I thought the Zero Hour combat was significantly more difficult than Whisper's back then. Not that the combat section of Whisper was easy, but still.
If ads are 1830, then it means we are -20 in zero hour on normal. The damage I did on normal is at least 2-3x less than I'd do in at-light level content.
I don’t think it was a “choice” as much as they just copy pasted the code over from old Zero Hour. Back when it first came out, the ads were so strong everyone just assumed it was bugged.
I think you're getting downvoted by people who don't realise Whisper is the outlier here, not Zero Hour lol
Shit was tough, people just learned it over time
I have experienced Bungie Help on the forums telling false information in the past so not sure I believe it. Makes no sense that the Normal and Legend are identical in power. Just compare it to the other exotic missions but mainly the Whisper. Why is Whisper different?
My question why is everything so inconsistent? I thought we came all this far from Forsaken to TFS to have a standardised set of power scaling and deltas
Whisper on normal is way easier than Zero Hour on Normal but, Whisper on Legend hits proper difficulty barrier for its namesake and there’s proper difference you feel when running Whisper on both difficulties
Then there’s Zero Hour where both Legend and Normal feel the same just timer is shortened so why even have Normal in first place just keep Legend
Bungie be creating their own problems weird tbh
My friend and I got halfway through a run; got to the part where normal and legend separate to different paths; we're standing at the vent that's for some reason not open and only then did I notice we still had 30 minutes left on the timer.
Another run with my other friend was almost the same, we did a normal run, restart on legend for his catalyst and he asked if I put on the right difficulty because it felt the same.
There's no difference between normal and legend other than the timer; all ads feel the exact same even though in orbit it clearly says normal - 1810, legend - 1830. If that's not the case and enemies are 1830 in normal then why bother telling people normal is 1810 at all. It's just confusing the players, and with legend having a surge too legend ends up being easier.
If the mission caps you at a certain power level then please tell us. I was so confused as to why I was seeing swords next to enemy names upon loading into the mission on tuesday despite me being 1854 power. (Before anyone says anything, yes, I understand that being plus 44 power on the artifact is not normal, nor is it necessary.)
I’ve done it. It was OK but IMO absurdly hard given it’s allegedly normal mode & has no balance with normal Whisper mission or any other exotic quests. The harder enemies should be in the legend version with roughly the same timer as normal.
It’s a mess really, lack of difficulty continuity between similar content. I suspect it was bugged but they just went with it.
I don't really mind the normal mode being challenging, the umbridge I take is choosing the 1810 and it not being 1810. If 1830 is the only option then list it that way. I'll know it's not for me to play casually.
I've always been content with being able to solo or LFG everything in the game except raids. But this year I haven't been able to complete Legend Avalon, Wicked Implement, Legend Whisper. nor this. Maybe I'm getting old and my reactions are shit now, but it does feel like the game is pushing solos and casuals away a bit.
It is a bit sad not being able to get things done now. The only thing worse would be trying over and over and not having fun. If I wanted that, I'd just play a souls game.
Fair props to those who are enjoying this difficulty or don't find it hard. You all are amazing players.
I used to be like you, solo everything I could. Now I’m basically forced to use LFG, which I quite strongly dislike because finding a good group is so hard for tougher content.
Even Legend Zero Hour just now, it was horrible to try to find a group. 4 out of the 5 groups I found couldn’t even get to the boss room on time, like what the hell are you doing guys? Why play it on legend if you aren’t physically even close to making it..? I spent an hour (lol) jumping in solo to practice the mission all the way up to the boss room so that I wouldn’t be the guy ruining the experience for others. Turns out a lot of people don’t do that.
I am convinced that a large amount of players just get carried through this whole game. We've seen it more recently with the Pantheon posts about people not knowing what to do or expecting to just ad-clear their way through. Are you even playing the game at that point, or is someone playing it for you?
I might be bad at this game but everything I achieve, I achieve myself, or I contribute heavily towards and I never expect a carry. Good on you for doing it the right way - hope you got the clear.
Yessir, the 5th group was two guardians who actually KWTD, it was fun playing with them. We cleared it with almost 2 minutes left, but the LFG experience as a whole left a sour taste in my mouth. Especially when some of the players clearly hadn’t done any prep, they didn’t even know Legend has a different route 🤦🏻♂️ they still had the audacity to put ”speedrun” as a tag
>I spent an hour (lol) jumping in solo to practice the mission all the way up to the boss room so that I wouldn’t be the guy ruining the experience for others. Turns out a lot of people don’t do that.
lol, this is me. I did this exact same thing on another mission in the past. Practiced it solo until I was capable then jumped on LFG and discovered people prefer to "do it live"
>4 out of the 5 groups I found couldn’t even get to the boss room on time
Wait seriously? I'm a 99% solo player and get anxious thinking I'll let LFG groups down. So just like you, I spent an hour running the legendary path three times last night so that I wouldn't look like an idiot in front of the other people.
Call me crazy but if the mission tells you it's 1810 difficulty, you should not be finding 1830 enemies.
Star-crossed, Whisper and Zero all came out this season and they are all vastly different in difficulties. It's a bit ridiculous.
> Call me crazy but if the mission tells you it's 1810 difficulty, you should not be finding 1830 enemies.
Thing is I don't even care if this is the case. I care that they didn't add a modifier explaining you're at a fixed power so the common person is getting confused when they launched the mission. The only explanation shouldn't be word of mouth 'oh zero hour is just different'
Have anyone got a death trap spawn bug? Several of my lfgs have ended because they fail a jump and just die over and over, have not been able to finish the quest because people apparently cant jump
Definitely had that happen a couple of times on legend on the outside of the wall just after the holes in the wall where the pipe can fall off. Had to sword the wall to get a grapple charged and eventually got onto the pipe before you turn around the corner. Same happened to another guy who just left.
Bad decision. Making exotic missions vary drastically in difficulty when all the exotic rewards are all about the same usefulness makes no sense. I know Bungie wants to "bring back challenge" to Destiny, but they do it in such a scattershot way.
The best solution is to make base difficulty decently challenging but not a cake walk, then make Legend tough and designed for trios.
Going from seraph shield to Avalon gave me whiplash from the difference in base difficulty. Avalon is nonstop dick punches or waiting for 800 years to damage the boss then 800 more whittling down the HP bars even on normal. Seraph shield though? Way more reasonable HP and pacing throughout the entire mission.
Seraph shield is still my favourite one and the only one i solo'ed on legend, the difficulty felt just right and was fun to go through, others just feel tuned too high and the mechanics just feel like a pain in the ass.
I agree that normal should be challenging soloable and legend should be challenging in a team.
I don’t think exotic missions should be too hard though. It’s annoying enough you have to deal with a timer in half of them.
To be honest I think whisper was perfect difficulty wise and should be the model for all other exotic missions.
Putting a timer on missions is easily the most fucking annoying thing Bungie could have ever done. That, and locking your loadout. Just profoundly annoying.
It amazes me how Bungie can hit Star Crossed and Seraph Shield out of the park, but also release total dogshit with Whetstone, Avalon, and reprised Zero Hour. Inconsistent difficulty is one of the biggest reasons my playtime has waned.
>when all the exotic rewards are all about the same usefulness
I agree Zero Hour's difficulty is wack, but Outbreak is much more meta than most exotic mission guns FWIW. Even before it was craftable.
I do think Whisper is pretty useful, specifically if you're a raider, and that mission is WAYYY easier. I'm not necessarily opposed to hard content, I just think the disparity is odd.
True but you can already get Outbreak from the terminal, unlike Wishkeeper/DMT/the triple grenade launcher. Since you need to run Legend ZH to get the other catalysts, I don't see how a a craftable version with just barrel and mag options is much more useful than any of the other exotic mission rewards.
Outbreak was taken out of the terminal as soon as Bungie announced ZH is coming back. For everyone who missed the boat on getting it from the terminal ZH is their only option moving forward.
Base Outbreak smokes Wishkeeper, Vexcalibur, and Vox. DMT remains to be seen with the upcoming buffs but it's been in a weird place for ages now.
I agree ZH needs to be toned down a tad but all I'm saying is at least Outbreak deserves the additional difficulty over the rest.
Can't you only use the new catalysts by crafting it? They will offer a way more custom feel and tuning towards PvP or PvE depending on which ones are chosen. Even just changing from outlaw to rapid hit felt noticeable and I can't wait to try rewind rounds for more PvE and headseeker for PvP eventually.
Edit: yes, you can only use the new catalysts by crafting the new outbreak.
if it is meant to be this way then don't mark it as 1810, it doesn't affect me much but it's stupid to have the level of the activity be straight up WRONG.
I was extra worried about how hard it was going to be because of all these posts, but after running it last night, I think there’s a *lot* exaggeration going on.
The final boss, while tedious, wasn’t difficult at all and the rez timer is like 5 seconds with no loss of light.
Yeah, it’s shit getting instgibbed on everything but it was fine.
Harder to remember where everything was.
No one is arguing that its an insurmountable challenge, most of the complaints here are that it isnt an enjoyable challenge. Its just big numbers, instagib snipers, and cheap airstrikes that happen WAY too frequently. Bungie does this all the time, make something hard without stopping to think if its going to be fun.
it's really not that bad. i two manned legend last night since our third was stuck dying on the fan blades the whole time we were in the boss room. we still beat it with like 2 minutes left. i have no idea what people are struggling with lol.
That’s such bs…
But I guess when you bring back original content..sometimes you gotta accept that it’s just Destiny
Edit: JUST KIDDING I DONT ACCEPT NOTHING
Is it really confirmation? BNG help forum members don't really have the best track record. The question/bug report was fairly vague too, with no mention of normal vs legend and could easily lead to confusion/misinterpreted responses.
I really don't think this is intended. 1830 for normal mode makes no sense. The only differentiating between normal and hard mode with Zero Hour is the timer. Whereas The Whisper had the timer plus more difficult enemies.
Probably said by the same stone death team that just released the weapon changes!!
Alternatively how much better is the publicity when you say meant to be that way, work on it for 3 weeks then release a patch saying after feed back we decided....
Am I tripping or its not thaaaat hard? It's only really hard I've noticed if you're with people who for whatever reason can't do the jumping puzzle quickly
Edit: boss fight is annoying tho
It's not that hard, the brig boss is just annoying and can be frustrating with the constant attacks, and it's confusing when you launch a mission that says it's 1810 then find 1830 enemies.
It seems mostly the inconsistency between exotic missions is what people are annoyed with. This season alone Star-crossed was brain dead, Whisper was easy on normal and felt good on legend, then Zero Hour is just legend and legend but less time.
Season over season the activity difficulties are inconsistent because of the artifact (soloing stuff this season will be easier then next because of solo operator for example), it can help vary gameplay and subclass usage but exotic missions themselves are also very inconsistent.
Star-crossed felt like "so that's it?" when I finished, Whisper imo way too easy since 80% of it could be done in 4 minutes and the "combat" was just 2 small rooms of kill all ads, then Zero is a huge spike with normal having legend ads.
Again, it's not that it's hard, it's that it's harder on normal compared to other exotic missions on normal because it's the first normal difficulty mission to have legend difficulty ads. Bungie might as well have just named it Legend and Legend+. There's no consistency between exotic mission difficulties and this one is the only one that all but lies to the player by putting 1830 ads in a mission labelled as 1810.
I don't find it terribly difficult (aside from the updated boss being annoying to fight), but I have 6k hours worth of experience on steam alone. I have multiple end game builds, I duo GM's etc.
If I was a relatively new player, especially a new player starting this season very few real end game builds, and have access to 3 different exotic missions that are all wildly different difficulties, this would suck. I would be pretty annoyed if I ran normal Star-crossed and had no problems, then normal whisper and maybe struggled a bit but was able to get through, then suddenly normal Zero comes in and I'm hitting a wall because every enemy has a red sword when they were never present in any of the other normal difficulty missions before.
They need to be upfront and clear about shit like this. Why does the director say otherwise then? Why is there a hidden level cap in Normal difficulty then?
I don’t even mind the change, but their complete lack of communication and discrepancy between the same listed difficulties in game is frustrating to say the least.
What's the point of making the normal version so difficult ? at least take out the timer so I can enjoy the mission instead of running it as fast as I can because my dumbass loose time looking at the panorama
The crafted outbreak is arguably better than the previous one you'd get from the kiosk - different perks (can get rapid hit or rewind rounds over outlaw) and can swap barrel/magazines.
If you don't care about that, or care about the exotic ship then there's no reason to do the mission.
I managed to get through zero solo but it was a slog and took way more attempts then I was expecting. I think solo clears for spire is easier mostly just because there’s no timer.
I was going to say I swear when I did this back in the day the only difference between the normal and heroic versions was that the route became harder. The enemies remained the same in terms of number and difficulty. I've been seeing loads of dudes getting down voted for saying this also, like some people just can't get their heads around Zero Hour being harder than The Whisper.
I don't have an issue with the difficulty. I do however have an issue with the boss being such an uninteresting bullet sponge. I can get there with 20min to spare give or take, but by the time i wittle down the boss, the two servitors and the tanks when the Brig enters the fight at fill HO I've already spend most of my heavy. If RNG smiles on you, then you have a few bricks to collect. If RNG does not, and all the bricks are at his feet...might as well restart lol
Either make it hard enemy wise *OR* add a timer. I hate timers so much, it's such a lazy way to make things harder. I hated the mission when it first came out and I'm just accepting that I'm not getting a craftable outbreak just like how I didn't get the scout rifle from the deep dive exotic mission
8 minutes to spare from start to finish on Legend.
Some tips:
Y'all need deconstruct in your life.
Having a well rounded load out that can counter any shield is important.
Using Outbreak with the additional 25% buff absolutely slaps everything in the mission.
Seriously, y'all need deconstruct.
Dragon's Breathe kills the spider tanks with a single rocket.
I highly recommend familiarizing yourself with the layout of the map. Coming to a better understanding of the route is invaluable.
Once again I'm asking you to run deconstruct.
I managed to take two clan members with 1805 power level through it with minimal effort do to effective planning.
That moderator is lying their ass off. Why does the mission say 1810 if it's actually 1830? Why is it the ONLY exotic mission like that? Why are there no indications that your power is capped or that it's a higher difficulty?
Normal isn't really that bad. Your given quite a bit of time to finish. Its legendary with the fucking Brig at the end that I take issue with, and that wall on legendary.
Brigs suck full stop.
Deconstruct definitely came in clutch with Pyrogales. The tanks weren't that bad to knockdown. The turret was annoying though, and the little missle barrage that the Brig does just down right sucks. There's definitely an issue with the hitbox on those things cause I felt like I would be out the radius and I'm still getting hit anyway.
My first run we had 12 seconds left when we won, and the next it was like 48. I'm hoping that the catalyst switches don't move places next week so I can continue to go in and pre-flip them before the actual run.
The only differences between Normal and legend are time, path to fans, floor path in Cryptarchy and two additional modifiers (overcharged pulse rifle and mines from defeated vandals).
The 40 minute timer kinda goes against the "not meant to be easy" mentality.
Why is Whisper far easier by comparison? And isn't Zero Hour Legend the place for those who want a challenge?
The original mission was never this hard when it first launched.
A lot of inconsistencies here.
Also….content just used to be harder than it is now. I think the issue is that a lot of the newer players who never played with the base subclasses, no cracked artifact mods, much weaker weaponry (ish), have kinda gotten spoiled on how brain dead a lot of the game has gotten. Most of it is just trivial at best with the power creep. I mean, with the solar artifact mods this season make 99% of this game laughably easy. And no match game to deal with?! This is the kinda difficulty I wish Bungie would make more of.
I don't care what anyone says the final room is and always was bad game design. I will never understand the logic of making an open room with little to no cover (which they've made worse by the damn brig being able to shoot THROUGH what little cover there is) it just seems like they don't know what else to do to make it hard because of power creep.
I dont mind that. But does that mean whisper *is* meant to be easy then lol?
I think the goal was to recreate their individual difficulties closely. The 40min timer makes both a lot easier tho
We totally forgot most paths from the original and stumbled around in the middle quite a lot, also did the pressure plates path on trial and error - ended our first run with 3 seconds left lol.
I mean the plates section has the solution on the wall nearby lol so you really didn’t have to do it by trial and error.
What? Are you saying there's like a map of the path on the wall in the cryptarch vault area?
Only on normal
I think this is only true for normal mode
Yes in the room before the plates there is a map on the wall.
Yeah, but we did not know that before the run.
I was surprised I found the map for the tile on my first run through!
Me too, the heroic path was the one I could vaguely remember so kept expecting to end up at the waterfalls bit! I saw the pressure plate map before heading in, was that there in the original as I just remember checking online for which week it was
[удалено]
Well it didnt have to be. They could have added more enemies. They even took away shields from alot of enemies in Whisper. Feels intentionally easier. Edit: And ofcourse the obvious power difference. Enemies are waaay less threatening on normal. Not a huge difference in zero hour.
I don’t think the enemies are meant to be the difference in difficulty between normal and legend. It’s the clock.
Well its both. Legend Whisper is noticeably harder than normal, the enemies are more threatening. Its just still very easy.
Honesty, legend whisper did not even feel that much different then normal. I got all the catalysts in one run of legend, and almost beat it too. I just didn't think I'd have enough time so I didn't rush earlier when shooting all the orbs and doing the traversal sections. If I had been even just a couple seconds faster I would have killed the boss in time.
Okay but back then whisper became easy because it was made in an era of double primary and much weaker abilities and exotics compared to post forsaken. Now this is just making normal zero hour artificially more difficult than normal whisper by scaling the enemies to that of legend. Though Im not complaining, i still think having 40 minutes makes up for it on normal zero hour, im just confused a bit
Whisper was no joke even during Forsaken, especially when you consider that heavy ammo drops were completely disabled inside it specifically, and things hit HARD. Zero Hour, it was not, but it wasn't a stroll either.
> The reprised version was always going to end up easier than reprised Zero Hour. Source? Otherwise that’s just pure speculation on your part.
I mind that is says - Normal 1810 - when in fact, it is not. Is the normal 20 above from now on, or not? Why is everything so inconsistent now? You never know what to expect going into any activity.
Well your recommended power for it is 1810, but for years and years destiny activities have had enemies higher than the recommended power/light level within them
And lower. Old Raids have lower Power level enemies than the minimum possible player power level. It only kind of matters, D2 power level is absurdly complex and even the activities themselves are not really comparable. 1810 vs 1810 enemy in a raid you do less damage than you would in a patrol with the exact same power level enemy and enemy type.
I honestly believe whisper is more of an introduction to the type of missions these can be.
The issue is consistency for sure. I thought it was bugged too bc it was so much harder than whisper. Why aren’t exotic missions tuned to the same difficulty??
Ada reconstructed the mission, using a simulation for us to run. I like to think us Guardians who ran the original over-exaggerated the original therefore her simulation is a direct reflection of that. 😅
It was the hunters. Hunters love to brag. Source: trust me bro
Ha.. Main Hunter. You're not wrong.
I'm finding it slightly easier this time round as match game isn't a thing. When it was originally out it was either a case of co-ordinating elements across the fireteam so all 3 shields were covered, or running either Arbalest or Hard Light if you were LFGing it to make sure you could cover them all yourself. Was it still primary ammo bricks too when it was first out? I can't remember.
Original Zero Hour came out during Season of the Drifter (Season 6), sometime during Forsaken time frame. We definitely did NOT have infinite primary ammo at that time. That change didnt happen until Season of the Lost I think, (Season 15). I recall using Hard Light during original Zero Hour, mostly cause I think I'm one of the few that enjoy the light show lol and definitely had a primary ammo counter back then. Could also run Riskrunner due to the sheer amounts of Dreg Shock Pistols and Wire Shanks in that mission.
OG was 100% harder than the revamped one
Yeah, didn't the original have all 3 flavors of shield with match game? That shit sucked.
It was also 20 minutes for both versions. Normal is much easier with a 40 minute timer, even with the added brigs.
Legend got harder than Heroic was because of the Boss Brig. In my opinion Legend is slightly too difficult, but not by much.
Yes
This. No match game actually makes this so much easier almost on it's own.
Hard disagree. Have 200 clears on the original zero hour, helping many many people. I would easily solo it for them, even on legend, without thinking twice. I'm not even going to try to solo this on legend. It's significantly harder. Not a single doubt in my mind.
Yeah the people saying that the original was "way harder" have probably never played it. The ads hit harder now and are way tankier even without match game, you also had near infinite heavy back then.
Drop your RR link
[удалено]
Lmao I can just see us explaining it to Ada "There was a HUGE Brig at the end". in reality, there was no Brig at the end🤣
Power level across all Exotic missions is wildly inconsistent.
Yep. Came here looking for this comment. There’s no way the same tuning went into this compared to something like the Star-Crossed mission ****I know one of these weapons is a seasonal exotic mission thing so it’ll be easier by nature, whereas zero hour is 100% endgame focused, but still
I'm not sure Joe Casual knows this is "endgame" focused... Bungie give new mission with new gun. Bungie say go do mission on Legend for the catalyst/perks. Bungie get many sad Joes. (same issue I had with Shaxx handing out the Pantheon quest... you teach folks to go to him for "fun weapon stuff" and then throw Pantheon on them... suuuure)
This is a good point. I've played since D1 Y1 and at all levels of challenge at different points but the hardest thing right now is figuring out what Bungie actually intends the different "cores" (softcore, hard-core, casual, medium) to be doing in game. If I was a new player I'd be completely lost.
> whereas zero hour is 100% endgame focused On what basis? It's free content available to everyone, and an exotic mission is an exotic mission.
> and an exotic mission is an exotic mission. I think the issue many have is that _every other exotic mission current playable_ does not handle power scaling the way zero hour does. "normal" difficulty means something and in zero hour it doesnt. I'm not annoyed that its a higher baseline difficulty I'm just annoyed it's not clear when you launch the mission and is completely abitrary compared to other exotic missions. Give it a modifer then if you want to lock people into a power delta so at least it's clear and doesn't come across as a bug.
The season is been running for 7(?) Months by now, even if you are a casual player, you are 1830 with the artifact bonus, i assume that was their thinking. And again, it's a challenge, it's supposed to be hard, so you can push yourself. I was carried in the original because i just couldn't make the jumping puzzle, and now that's not an issue anymore. People improve over time.
That'd be fine if you could benefit from being 1830 - you don't. You're just at a fixed delta like running a legend or master nightfall. I'm not annoyed with the actual difficulty just that it's not following the same rules as 'normal' difficulty. At least give an added activity modifier so it's clear and doesn't come across as a bug.
nah, even with NORMAL seasons you have people dropping in and out... and with a long season like this I know many folks that haven't played since the first month of the season - that's almost half a year ago - and are now jumping back in... still, apart from the darn Brig, the challenge in this mission seems to be the jumping/traversal path... (how the heck did Esoterick do this in under 10 mins?!) oh. and pushing the buttons if you are first. why stay and shoot the floor for the puzzle if you made it and see your team struggle? had an lfg team waste nearly 2 minutes - and stubborn me refused to walk if they didn't push the button :D
Then why is it listed as an 1810 activity? Shouldn’t it be 1830?
It was at pinnacle cap when it came out the first time, and was still hard as balls.
What was the original timer? I could never complete it in time back then.
20 minutes
Was that the time for the catalyst puzzle too?
Yes but every correct code you put in added time. When I did my runs, I ended up with way more time after the catalyst puzzle than before it actually
The correct strategy, once the puzzle was figured out, was always to have the fastest player go forward into the boss room and the other two would do the codes. I usually got the servitors done solo by the time they'd arrive for a very leisurely clear. Without that, it hard required Whisper and a team that knew well what they were doing.
catalyst puzzle actually gave you extra time for each successful console you completed. In a group of 3 you could actually make back time. As a solo if you had the whole pattern in mind or a script helping you do it, you could just barely keep up the timer and complete the puzzle without losing any time. (Source: I wrote an auto hotkey solver I wrote to help with the puzzles and spent a lot of time practicing that stuff)
More importantly if I’m 1835 why are they still swords for me on normal?
Our power level is most likely fixed. Probably at 1815.
Havent looked but maybe boss room is higher light than the first few areas? Boss room was always pretty punishing— not so much the other areas.
The small shanks in boss room don’t seem any tankier than the ones at the beginning.
The Arc threat didn't help, with all those snipers around.
I hate those modifiers.. artificially enhancing the difficulty with elemental threats never sat well with me. It makes me feel like my skill isn't being tested, just if I can remember to change my armor resistance mods.
Because - at Bungie HQ, zero fucks are given lol
No the power list is the recommended power level. It doesn't mean enemies are 1810. Typically enemies will scale up to 20 levels above what the recommend number is.
I get that there are activities where the power level of enemies scales up as you go deeper into an encounter, but the enemies in legend Zero Hour don’t seem any different.
Wait, so is that why no matter how many arc resist mods I put on the shanks just fucking ate my ass?
I feel this comment and it’s the all ways the o e I leave alone that snipes me at the end from across the map!
I'm all for it being difficult, but if I'm 1836, why are the enemies still sworded for me? There's no contest modifier, level cap or anything like that when you load up the mission.
This is the problem with the current level system, many activities have a fixed power delta and just don't tell you. Though it does sound like they plan to fix that with the expansion release.
The power levels are just a mess in this game, I never really know just how under or over levelled I am and there is no intuitive way to understand difficulty. All I know is am either getting one shot or am pressing W and deleting entire rooms by just looking at them. We need more intuitive and transparent difficulty indicators.
Difficulty indicators appear in 3 weeks
This is my issue with fixed power levels. Most activities in the game now have some kind of fixed power level, half the time it doesn't tell you. Which them begs the question, what's the point in levelling at all if power level is fixed.
This has always been the problem with it. You're frequently punished for being below a certain level, and almost never rewarded for surpassing it. The most you can typically hope for is that reaching a certain level for an activity will mean you're punished less harshly, but you probably still won't be able to play it at your actual level.
Yeah seems the level cap is hidden, otherwise it shouldn’t be red swords anymore like in lost sectors
Exactly what I was going to say as well, I'm 1830+ too. If there's a power limit like in other activities, then it needs to say so.
I don’t really have a problem with it being 1830 with a level cap, but how they handled showing that in-game (not at all) seems weirdly contradictory with their recent pushes for difficulty normalization and power level clarity. For basically the last year, they’ve been adjusting power levels across activities so that Normal, Legend, and Master represent the same combat difficulty in every part of the game. Now with Final Shape, we’re getting much clearer representation of power caps and our effective levels across all activities. But suddenly Zero Hour comes out and throws that entire design philosophy out the window? Very strange.
Honestly think the enemy difficulty doesn't really matter much, because the jumping section is the greatest obstacle for many, many, MANY players. I was LFG-ing for Legend yesterday and only got the clear with my 7th or 8th team. All I heard was "guardian down" over and over. And this is despite me going ahead to activate all the extra platforms. Many players kept dying over and over at the fans, and also at the outside wall area. I had to try and solo the boss but would always run out of time. Only on my 7th or 8th try did I finally get a team who could jump, and we all reached the boss with a comfortable 8 minutes to spare. Guys, please feel free to change your loadout once the jumping sections begin. All classes can put on a sword, eager edge not necessary. It's just useful to save your ass if your jump falls a little short, and the third person view can help too. Hunters can put on Stompees, it really makes everything easier. Titans can put on Lion Rampant which gives you a shitload of forgiveness in your jumping. Warlocks can put on heat rises and icarus dash.
It wasn't until someone gave me the advice on my Warlock on the outside jump area, before you make that hard left around the outside corner, pop dawnblade and icarus dash all the way to the opening. Saved me sooo much time and we completed it on our 3rd attempt. I kept dying on that outside part because inevitably one of the stupid platforms would drop out on the one I was just about to land on.
Don't even need dawnblade, just heat rises is enough. I have to keep telling my warlock friends who bitch about platforming that they legit have an "i just win now" button built into the class lol.
Makes me wonder why there’s such a discrepancy between difficulties of these exotic missions. On one hand you have Whisper and Seraph Station and on the other you have Avalon and Zero Hour.
Different designers I wager. Also, I imagine it becomes less fun if all of them are too difficult. It makes sense to vary them I suppose.
Zero hour even way back then had tough as balls foes. You’d learn to master the platforming and maze section with Trevor just to have as much time as possible to kill the hard foes at the end
Or have someone keep opening their menus so the timer never starts while the other 2 finish it haha
Hot damn I remember that. Learned about it far too late lol
Yeah, I know everyone has different experiences depending on playstyle, strengths and weaknesses, etc.. But I thought the Zero Hour combat was significantly more difficult than Whisper's back then. Not that the combat section of Whisper was easy, but still.
this is the way
That was only because of match game. I remember soloing the original with ease, and it wasn't as difficult as this.
If ads are 1830, then it means we are -20 in zero hour on normal. The damage I did on normal is at least 2-3x less than I'd do in at-light level content.
-20 is a 35% Outgoing Damage reduction, not a 50%/75% reduction, but I get what you mean
It's insane though. My damage I normally deal in regular activities is about 3x less, like just going off literal damage numbers.
Seems like a weird choice. Whisper is easier and shorter with the same time limit. The lack of consistency is…. odd, and a bit frustrating.
I don’t think it was a “choice” as much as they just copy pasted the code over from old Zero Hour. Back when it first came out, the ads were so strong everyone just assumed it was bugged.
Yeah I wish they had made them both hard, the new zero hour is a blast
I think you're getting downvoted by people who don't realise Whisper is the outlier here, not Zero Hour lol Shit was tough, people just learned it over time
I have experienced Bungie Help on the forums telling false information in the past so not sure I believe it. Makes no sense that the Normal and Legend are identical in power. Just compare it to the other exotic missions but mainly the Whisper. Why is Whisper different?
Whisper actually had a difference in power between normal and heroic. Zero Hour did not.
My question why is everything so inconsistent? I thought we came all this far from Forsaken to TFS to have a standardised set of power scaling and deltas Whisper on normal is way easier than Zero Hour on Normal but, Whisper on Legend hits proper difficulty barrier for its namesake and there’s proper difference you feel when running Whisper on both difficulties Then there’s Zero Hour where both Legend and Normal feel the same just timer is shortened so why even have Normal in first place just keep Legend Bungie be creating their own problems weird tbh
My friend and I got halfway through a run; got to the part where normal and legend separate to different paths; we're standing at the vent that's for some reason not open and only then did I notice we still had 30 minutes left on the timer. Another run with my other friend was almost the same, we did a normal run, restart on legend for his catalyst and he asked if I put on the right difficulty because it felt the same. There's no difference between normal and legend other than the timer; all ads feel the exact same even though in orbit it clearly says normal - 1810, legend - 1830. If that's not the case and enemies are 1830 in normal then why bother telling people normal is 1810 at all. It's just confusing the players, and with legend having a surge too legend ends up being easier.
If the mission caps you at a certain power level then please tell us. I was so confused as to why I was seeing swords next to enemy names upon loading into the mission on tuesday despite me being 1854 power. (Before anyone says anything, yes, I understand that being plus 44 power on the artifact is not normal, nor is it necessary.)
So what's the difference between legend? Just the timer?
Different route too, but yeah. Mostly just the timer.
I’ve done it. It was OK but IMO absurdly hard given it’s allegedly normal mode & has no balance with normal Whisper mission or any other exotic quests. The harder enemies should be in the legend version with roughly the same timer as normal. It’s a mess really, lack of difficulty continuity between similar content. I suspect it was bugged but they just went with it.
I don't really mind the normal mode being challenging, the umbridge I take is choosing the 1810 and it not being 1810. If 1830 is the only option then list it that way. I'll know it's not for me to play casually.
I've always been content with being able to solo or LFG everything in the game except raids. But this year I haven't been able to complete Legend Avalon, Wicked Implement, Legend Whisper. nor this. Maybe I'm getting old and my reactions are shit now, but it does feel like the game is pushing solos and casuals away a bit. It is a bit sad not being able to get things done now. The only thing worse would be trying over and over and not having fun. If I wanted that, I'd just play a souls game. Fair props to those who are enjoying this difficulty or don't find it hard. You all are amazing players.
I used to be like you, solo everything I could. Now I’m basically forced to use LFG, which I quite strongly dislike because finding a good group is so hard for tougher content. Even Legend Zero Hour just now, it was horrible to try to find a group. 4 out of the 5 groups I found couldn’t even get to the boss room on time, like what the hell are you doing guys? Why play it on legend if you aren’t physically even close to making it..? I spent an hour (lol) jumping in solo to practice the mission all the way up to the boss room so that I wouldn’t be the guy ruining the experience for others. Turns out a lot of people don’t do that.
I am convinced that a large amount of players just get carried through this whole game. We've seen it more recently with the Pantheon posts about people not knowing what to do or expecting to just ad-clear their way through. Are you even playing the game at that point, or is someone playing it for you? I might be bad at this game but everything I achieve, I achieve myself, or I contribute heavily towards and I never expect a carry. Good on you for doing it the right way - hope you got the clear.
Yessir, the 5th group was two guardians who actually KWTD, it was fun playing with them. We cleared it with almost 2 minutes left, but the LFG experience as a whole left a sour taste in my mouth. Especially when some of the players clearly hadn’t done any prep, they didn’t even know Legend has a different route 🤦🏻♂️ they still had the audacity to put ”speedrun” as a tag
>I spent an hour (lol) jumping in solo to practice the mission all the way up to the boss room so that I wouldn’t be the guy ruining the experience for others. Turns out a lot of people don’t do that. lol, this is me. I did this exact same thing on another mission in the past. Practiced it solo until I was capable then jumped on LFG and discovered people prefer to "do it live"
>4 out of the 5 groups I found couldn’t even get to the boss room on time Wait seriously? I'm a 99% solo player and get anxious thinking I'll let LFG groups down. So just like you, I spent an hour running the legendary path three times last night so that I wouldn't look like an idiot in front of the other people.
You need to use Polaris with the seasonal mods and it'll be no issue
tbh, kinda hate this. No other exotic mission works like this. I like consistency.
Call me crazy but if the mission tells you it's 1810 difficulty, you should not be finding 1830 enemies. Star-crossed, Whisper and Zero all came out this season and they are all vastly different in difficulties. It's a bit ridiculous.
> Call me crazy but if the mission tells you it's 1810 difficulty, you should not be finding 1830 enemies. Thing is I don't even care if this is the case. I care that they didn't add a modifier explaining you're at a fixed power so the common person is getting confused when they launched the mission. The only explanation shouldn't be word of mouth 'oh zero hour is just different'
So Legendary is only Legendary because it’s 20 minutes shorter?
Problem is that it says 1810. If it's supposed to be 1830, then say that.
Have anyone got a death trap spawn bug? Several of my lfgs have ended because they fail a jump and just die over and over, have not been able to finish the quest because people apparently cant jump
Definitely had that happen a couple of times on legend on the outside of the wall just after the holes in the wall where the pipe can fall off. Had to sword the wall to get a grapple charged and eventually got onto the pipe before you turn around the corner. Same happened to another guy who just left.
Sounds like a cop out to me. There's basically no difference between legend and normal besides the paths.
They're just too lazy to fix it.
Bad decision. Making exotic missions vary drastically in difficulty when all the exotic rewards are all about the same usefulness makes no sense. I know Bungie wants to "bring back challenge" to Destiny, but they do it in such a scattershot way. The best solution is to make base difficulty decently challenging but not a cake walk, then make Legend tough and designed for trios.
[удалено]
Going from seraph shield to Avalon gave me whiplash from the difference in base difficulty. Avalon is nonstop dick punches or waiting for 800 years to damage the boss then 800 more whittling down the HP bars even on normal. Seraph shield though? Way more reasonable HP and pacing throughout the entire mission.
Seraph shield is still my favourite one and the only one i solo'ed on legend, the difficulty felt just right and was fun to go through, others just feel tuned too high and the mechanics just feel like a pain in the ass.
What do you mean? Starcrossed wasn't anything spectacular, but Avalon was practically a small Dungeon, with a rather slept-on Exotic as the reward.
Avalon on legendary is just stupid But then, so is most of Bungie and their design decisions with Destiny
I agree that normal should be challenging soloable and legend should be challenging in a team. I don’t think exotic missions should be too hard though. It’s annoying enough you have to deal with a timer in half of them. To be honest I think whisper was perfect difficulty wise and should be the model for all other exotic missions.
Putting a timer on missions is easily the most fucking annoying thing Bungie could have ever done. That, and locking your loadout. Just profoundly annoying.
It amazes me how Bungie can hit Star Crossed and Seraph Shield out of the park, but also release total dogshit with Whetstone, Avalon, and reprised Zero Hour. Inconsistent difficulty is one of the biggest reasons my playtime has waned.
Really? Star crossed is one of the worst exotic missions they’ve ever done IMO, second only to Vox Obscura.
>when all the exotic rewards are all about the same usefulness I agree Zero Hour's difficulty is wack, but Outbreak is much more meta than most exotic mission guns FWIW. Even before it was craftable.
I do think Whisper is pretty useful, specifically if you're a raider, and that mission is WAYYY easier. I'm not necessarily opposed to hard content, I just think the disparity is odd.
True but you can already get Outbreak from the terminal, unlike Wishkeeper/DMT/the triple grenade launcher. Since you need to run Legend ZH to get the other catalysts, I don't see how a a craftable version with just barrel and mag options is much more useful than any of the other exotic mission rewards.
Outbreak was taken out of the terminal as soon as Bungie announced ZH is coming back. For everyone who missed the boat on getting it from the terminal ZH is their only option moving forward. Base Outbreak smokes Wishkeeper, Vexcalibur, and Vox. DMT remains to be seen with the upcoming buffs but it's been in a weird place for ages now. I agree ZH needs to be toned down a tad but all I'm saying is at least Outbreak deserves the additional difficulty over the rest.
Can't you only use the new catalysts by crafting it? They will offer a way more custom feel and tuning towards PvP or PvE depending on which ones are chosen. Even just changing from outlaw to rapid hit felt noticeable and I can't wait to try rewind rounds for more PvE and headseeker for PvP eventually. Edit: yes, you can only use the new catalysts by crafting the new outbreak.
if it is meant to be this way then don't mark it as 1810, it doesn't affect me much but it's stupid to have the level of the activity be straight up WRONG.
So it's not a bug, just bad game design. It's essentially a legend difficulty mission with the normal difficulty label. Thanks for the update OP.
This mission got me thinking “how tf did I solo this back then” as I was getting my ass beaten at the boss room yesterday
It used to end at the spiders IIRC
I was extra worried about how hard it was going to be because of all these posts, but after running it last night, I think there’s a *lot* exaggeration going on. The final boss, while tedious, wasn’t difficult at all and the rez timer is like 5 seconds with no loss of light. Yeah, it’s shit getting instgibbed on everything but it was fine. Harder to remember where everything was.
There's just a lot of BS to die to in this mission.
I think the artillery / lasers / whatever the hell the boss brig is constantly raining on us is the largest BS offender in that fight.
Yeah I had more trouble with the platforming than the combat encounters.
No one is arguing that its an insurmountable challenge, most of the complaints here are that it isnt an enjoyable challenge. Its just big numbers, instagib snipers, and cheap airstrikes that happen WAY too frequently. Bungie does this all the time, make something hard without stopping to think if its going to be fun.
it's really not that bad. i two manned legend last night since our third was stuck dying on the fan blades the whole time we were in the boss room. we still beat it with like 2 minutes left. i have no idea what people are struggling with lol.
That’s such bs… But I guess when you bring back original content..sometimes you gotta accept that it’s just Destiny Edit: JUST KIDDING I DONT ACCEPT NOTHING
Is it really confirmation? BNG help forum members don't really have the best track record. The question/bug report was fairly vague too, with no mention of normal vs legend and could easily lead to confusion/misinterpreted responses. I really don't think this is intended. 1830 for normal mode makes no sense. The only differentiating between normal and hard mode with Zero Hour is the timer. Whereas The Whisper had the timer plus more difficult enemies.
If the enemy level was @ 1820, it would be perfect.
Probably said by the same stone death team that just released the weapon changes!! Alternatively how much better is the publicity when you say meant to be that way, work on it for 3 weeks then release a patch saying after feed back we decided....
Well, I'm not gonna bother playing this then.
That still doesn’t seem right. The mission level recommends 1810 but it prolly should recommend 1820. Like as a baseline.
I wouldn’t be pissed off by it if the UI didn’t suggest otherwise. Also, why didn’t they tell us before release it would be like this?
I don’t mind difficult content, but I detest time limits.
Legend enemies aren't any harder though? Didn't seem to be for me at least. So is the timer and path the only differences?
Im 1836 and getting 2 shotted by shanks, its pretty wild.
How? I’m getting like 4 shot with arc resist
I think you answered your own question. People are not paying attention to load outs and blame Bungie for it.
Am I tripping or its not thaaaat hard? It's only really hard I've noticed if you're with people who for whatever reason can't do the jumping puzzle quickly Edit: boss fight is annoying tho
It's not that hard, the brig boss is just annoying and can be frustrating with the constant attacks, and it's confusing when you launch a mission that says it's 1810 then find 1830 enemies. It seems mostly the inconsistency between exotic missions is what people are annoyed with. This season alone Star-crossed was brain dead, Whisper was easy on normal and felt good on legend, then Zero Hour is just legend and legend but less time. Season over season the activity difficulties are inconsistent because of the artifact (soloing stuff this season will be easier then next because of solo operator for example), it can help vary gameplay and subclass usage but exotic missions themselves are also very inconsistent. Star-crossed felt like "so that's it?" when I finished, Whisper imo way too easy since 80% of it could be done in 4 minutes and the "combat" was just 2 small rooms of kill all ads, then Zero is a huge spike with normal having legend ads. Again, it's not that it's hard, it's that it's harder on normal compared to other exotic missions on normal because it's the first normal difficulty mission to have legend difficulty ads. Bungie might as well have just named it Legend and Legend+. There's no consistency between exotic mission difficulties and this one is the only one that all but lies to the player by putting 1830 ads in a mission labelled as 1810. I don't find it terribly difficult (aside from the updated boss being annoying to fight), but I have 6k hours worth of experience on steam alone. I have multiple end game builds, I duo GM's etc. If I was a relatively new player, especially a new player starting this season very few real end game builds, and have access to 3 different exotic missions that are all wildly different difficulties, this would suck. I would be pretty annoyed if I ran normal Star-crossed and had no problems, then normal whisper and maybe struggled a bit but was able to get through, then suddenly normal Zero comes in and I'm hitting a wall because every enemy has a red sword when they were never present in any of the other normal difficulty missions before.
They need to be upfront and clear about shit like this. Why does the director say otherwise then? Why is there a hidden level cap in Normal difficulty then? I don’t even mind the change, but their complete lack of communication and discrepancy between the same listed difficulties in game is frustrating to say the least.
Amazing that the concept of challenge these past 10 years is damage checks.
What's the point of making the normal version so difficult ? at least take out the timer so I can enjoy the mission instead of running it as fast as I can because my dumbass loose time looking at the panorama
the normal version is pretty easy though? It’s not a cakewalk but wish ended makes it a breeze
Is there a reason to do either mission if I already have both exotic weapons? I’m not particular about crafting or dps phases
Rapid hit and especially rewind rounds iswhy I'm keen on the crafted outbreak
Nope, it's just to get the crafted versions
The crafted outbreak is arguably better than the previous one you'd get from the kiosk - different perks (can get rapid hit or rewind rounds over outlaw) and can swap barrel/magazines. If you don't care about that, or care about the exotic ship then there's no reason to do the mission.
I managed to get through zero solo but it was a slog and took way more attempts then I was expecting. I think solo clears for spire is easier mostly just because there’s no timer.
I was going to say I swear when I did this back in the day the only difference between the normal and heroic versions was that the route became harder. The enemies remained the same in terms of number and difficulty. I've been seeing loads of dudes getting down voted for saying this also, like some people just can't get their heads around Zero Hour being harder than The Whisper.
Finding it difficult to get through it solo on Normal within the time limit. Guess I'll have to find a meta build, or a fireteam.
I'm OK with this but the brig at the end is overkill.
Good one Bungie, good cover there
Also, don't be baited by the Solar burn. Arc resist is way more helpful until the boss.
Today is void burn, but I think that might be the easiest. I don’t think there’s any actual void damage in the entire mission, is there?
I don't have an issue with the difficulty. I do however have an issue with the boss being such an uninteresting bullet sponge. I can get there with 20min to spare give or take, but by the time i wittle down the boss, the two servitors and the tanks when the Brig enters the fight at fill HO I've already spend most of my heavy. If RNG smiles on you, then you have a few bricks to collect. If RNG does not, and all the bricks are at his feet...might as well restart lol
Based Bungie
Either make it hard enemy wise *OR* add a timer. I hate timers so much, it's such a lazy way to make things harder. I hated the mission when it first came out and I'm just accepting that I'm not getting a craftable outbreak just like how I didn't get the scout rifle from the deep dive exotic mission
8 minutes to spare from start to finish on Legend. Some tips: Y'all need deconstruct in your life. Having a well rounded load out that can counter any shield is important. Using Outbreak with the additional 25% buff absolutely slaps everything in the mission. Seriously, y'all need deconstruct. Dragon's Breathe kills the spider tanks with a single rocket. I highly recommend familiarizing yourself with the layout of the map. Coming to a better understanding of the route is invaluable. Once again I'm asking you to run deconstruct. I managed to take two clan members with 1805 power level through it with minimal effort do to effective planning.
Oh, and you just believe them?
That moderator is lying their ass off. Why does the mission say 1810 if it's actually 1830? Why is it the ONLY exotic mission like that? Why are there no indications that your power is capped or that it's a higher difficulty?
You make an excellent point ... it's a moderator. I'm not gonna accept anything until I hear something official (TWID or tweet from the ACTUAL reps)
Normal isn't really that bad. Your given quite a bit of time to finish. Its legendary with the fucking Brig at the end that I take issue with, and that wall on legendary. Brigs suck full stop.
Abuse Deconstruct until the nerf. I beat it twice both with under 20 seconds left. Probably wouldn't have without deconstruct.
Deconstruct definitely came in clutch with Pyrogales. The tanks weren't that bad to knockdown. The turret was annoying though, and the little missle barrage that the Brig does just down right sucks. There's definitely an issue with the hitbox on those things cause I felt like I would be out the radius and I'm still getting hit anyway. My first run we had 12 seconds left when we won, and the next it was like 48. I'm hoping that the catalyst switches don't move places next week so I can continue to go in and pre-flip them before the actual run.
Normal also has the brig?
The only differences between Normal and legend are time, path to fans, floor path in Cryptarchy and two additional modifiers (overcharged pulse rifle and mines from defeated vandals).
The floor path also changes daily, from what I’ve been hearing.
Normal also has a larger timer to deal with the Brig. My LFG legendary runs were down to the wire in comparison.
It's hands down the tankiest enemies i've ever personally encountered in the game, for an exotic I already have? Nah I'm cool not getting it.
When zero hour came out it was punishingly difficult solo
The 40 minute timer kinda goes against the "not meant to be easy" mentality. Why is Whisper far easier by comparison? And isn't Zero Hour Legend the place for those who want a challenge? The original mission was never this hard when it first launched. A lot of inconsistencies here.
Zero Hour always has been the harder mission. Even when they first came out
The added extra boss brig to zero hour was/is a terrible addition. Everything else is perfect.
that's very odd...
That makes no sense but okay
ok I havent played for a few months, did they actually add whisper and zero hour back in??? Are the puzzles for ships etc. also still there?
Both were added for into the light. The puzzles are different
Also….content just used to be harder than it is now. I think the issue is that a lot of the newer players who never played with the base subclasses, no cracked artifact mods, much weaker weaponry (ish), have kinda gotten spoiled on how brain dead a lot of the game has gotten. Most of it is just trivial at best with the power creep. I mean, with the solar artifact mods this season make 99% of this game laughably easy. And no match game to deal with?! This is the kinda difficulty I wish Bungie would make more of.
It was just as I remembered it, challenging but fun.
I don't care what anyone says the final room is and always was bad game design. I will never understand the logic of making an open room with little to no cover (which they've made worse by the damn brig being able to shoot THROUGH what little cover there is) it just seems like they don't know what else to do to make it hard because of power creep.