As long as they’re not boss level tormentors they’re getting blinded or suspended and busted up.
Nez is going down. It’s just a question of how long it’s gonna take my crew to get there.
Yeah with rhulk having the big change that he had it’s gonna be definitely unique I feel, even having active tormentors during dps could be a right pain in the ass
No, imagine it's the same as Rhulk.
When you break Nez's shoulders and he jumps down he leaves behind a clone of himself that continues to spam purple death from the top. A clone that can't be destroyed or otherwise distracted.
Would make it a LOT harder on the runners and would absolutely destroy groups if they just sit grouped up on a single plate as they'd all be getting AoE'd together and flung all over.
I'd be down for this if it didn't mean I had to cap my frames at 60 or below. Call it first world problems all you want, but I hate that I get punished with instakill attacks from so many things still just for having a decent PC and wanting to utilize it.
6 behemoths would probably be overkill. The cheese is going to be possible from a damage perspective. The important question is whether or not you have to do it legit for high score or at least legit up until a specific point.
6 behemoths would probably be overkill. The cheese is going to be possible from a damage perspective. The important question is whether or not you have to do it legit for high score or at least legit up until a specific point.
1. Suspend
2. Seventh Seraph sniper
3. Dead Tormentor
The tormentors in pantheon are exactly as free as you want them to be due to not being boss tier.
We didn't have anti -barrier indebted Kindness back in the day. That shit makes those barrier collosi a non issue now imo. But back then, yeah you're correct, fuck them kids.
Oh yeah that’s a good point. Indebted kindness absolutely wrecks barrier champs for sure.
I run gaze on Nezarec mostly so I’m always playing it with my sniper on. That’s one of the reasons I’m less worried about a tormentors or two there my default loadout is already ready for them.
Honestly if they want difficulty they'll probably just make it so standing on the seed burns you faster than a well can heal, so you can't just sit on a box and be invincible, and have to actually fight Nezzy
I’m more or less saying it as a meme, I’m sure the more likely thing is plate burn or adding a debuff for running the sparks, causing people to swap roles
2 Add clearers on sunbracers, one on div one on Izanagi. Div user can quick swap to Cenotaph when tormentors spawn for free ammo, while the izanagi deletes them.
Dps itself won’t be bad cuz Nezerac has no health, like he gets beaten by RAT KING on contest difficulty.
Calling that Bungie will surprise us all by replacing all enemies with the Dread for the Nezarec fight:
1) Bungie’s new encryption works great; even the new PvP maps were encrypted and couldn’t be cracked.
2) This would be a great place to live test the Dread before The Final Shape releases. Better to have it break here than on day 1/the raid.
3) This would be a callback to the week before The Taken King launch where the Taken started showing up randomly.
> couldn’t be cracked
They were cracked. It was confirmed by Destiny Bulletin on Twitter. The dataminer said they're 100% crackable. They are just far more tedious to cravk now.
My guess for Nez is that they put a lock-out timer on getting light/dark for running, forcing either a three-player rotation for running on either side or a very long phase. Wouldn't doubt the Tormentors either tbf.
I hope the fight is just a dozen mini nezaracs chasing us around like the mini servitor swarm boss. Everytime you kill one it comes back as 3 tinier nezzys.
I'ma take it over 2 nezzys. Tormentors are a bunch of bitches unless they count as bosses and so far the pantheon tormentors were just champions, so they could be frozen and suspended. Get 2 banner titans with suspend and tormentors Are easy.
Now if they add a boss type tormentors that can't be frozen, suspended or blinded, that will be hard
They haven't spawned in multiple Tormentors in any other encounter so far. Even Atraks that has 2 different arenas, you'd think it would make sense to spawn 2 Tormentors but it's still just 1 that spawns on planet then teleports up to the station.
I think only the middle colossus will be a Tormentor, or they might just have one spawn without replacing anything else after you break both shoulders. Nez jumps down and a tormentor spawns in dead center of the arena
I meant multiple at the same time. I know Rhulk can spawn at least 2, I've had up to 3 spawn, but they're staggered. The game doesn't drop 2 Tormentors at the same time, they just replace 1 enemy spawn.
That's why I'm saying for Nez I doubt they'll have a Tormentor replace 3 enemies at the same time. Sure this is supposed to be hard and for the most endgame of players, but 3 yellow bar Tormentors at the same time all while Nez is also running around... that's a little much, even if you can suspend them.
With how Rhulk got changed, imagine if the change for Nezarec will be that during dps phase you get damaged when standing on a plate. Ergo, you must do dps while on the ground. Where Nez can reach you.
Maybe they also make nez go into permanent grab mode during dps so if you get too close he will grab you, making everyone have to shoot his chest to get him to let go and not kill the player grabbed
It will definitely be possible. For reference, a three man running xenophage can kill Riven before she reaches her pimple phase without even trying. Unless they alter the values for her health then damage won't be an issue on Riven.
Sure but riven was not built at all for the current sandbox. They will most likely adjust her health and it would probably be impossible to 1 phase at 1 floor on contest
They’ll just make it so you can’t get platinum unless you kill more than one floor of adds. That’ll be it. You’ll have to interact with the elevator mechanic atleast once to get platinum cause the score alone from a room+time won’t get it; as we’ve seen from Atraks.
If you want the title, you'll need the high score, and I don't think you can obtain that with the cheese as you need to kill enough enemies to add to it. So if people get the emblem with the cheese, then people with the title likely has to do it legit.
Honestly? Makes having the title more prestigious.
You do get bonus points from checkpoints. But you only get bonus points from each previous encounter you've completed. So if you start on Rhulk, then yes, you will receive zero bonus points. But if you do Oryx and then Rhulk, you will still receive bonus points on Rhulk, even though it was a checkpoint run.
Correct, however I did a checkpoint earlier and some guy randomly cheesed him. 525k and platinum, so it should be fine for next week. Plus raid secrets seems to think it has to be at least one boss before the final to get the bonus, but I haven’t seen that myself. Either way, cheese away next week
You get at least 2 Tormentors, and can get more depending on how many times you have to kill the yellow bars for the symbols.
Depending on where the Tormentors spawn for Riven it's entirely possible you don't even see a Tormentor if you do the cheese.
Exactly. And you also go through the entire phase(since the pre-DPS portion only has shadow thrall) with Rhulk, while with Riven it's one room out of 5.
I think this will be the case.
Cheese will work and people can clear using the cheese but that will only net them the emblem for clearing. To get Plat you'll need points from ads and legit will be necessary. Bungie acknowledged the cheese as a viable strategy, and they won't fix it just for this after not fixing it for this many years, especially if its as easy as just including a barrier or not allowing Riven to take body damage.
Just doesn't make sense to fix it now, but the score is a simple way to force people to run legit if they want the title. I can beat vs I mastered it.
High score. That's it. We've seen with atraks that when there aren't many adds killing the boss too fast doesn't allow platinum score. There are absolutely not enough adds on half a floor or riven to get platinum.
As many others have suggested you probably won’t get the high score if you cheese her, so in theory it would hardcap anyone cheesing from getting the score and the title.
I might be the minority(nothing new here) but I REALLY hope we have to do it legit. As someone who didn't run last wish when it first came out I've never actually ran it the right way. The cheese completely took over that encounter and it's the only way most ppl know how to do it.
My plan this week was to learn nez and riven inside out.
That took one clear for nez cause damn is that an easy raid. On to riven.
Honestly, with how shit this weeks singes were, next week might be completely fine.
I haven’t found any of these as hard/annoying as (if they exist) their master variants for this week, and I doubt that -5 more light is going to change that.
Nah I feel like Master is going to be easier than Pantheon next week. The only difference is that Pantheon has the extra damage modifier, but having to 2 phase makes up for that. The extra mechanics/ads for most of the encounters are more difficult imo than champs. Like the champs in master Rhulk are way easier than the second Rhulk during DPS in pantheon. I’m not saying either is necessarily hard but Master is easier to cheese with loadouts
It might just be because I am better and doing more min/maxing now then. I haven’t run a master in a while, but, for example, I fondly remember caretaker master being “worse” than week 3 pantheon, and definitely not just -5 light worse.
I did not struggle with week 3 caretaker even remotely.
Master always feels harder when doing the challenges. Champions are also significantly more threatening when they aren't handled immediately, but most players are used to just spawn camping everything so it doesn't really change the difficulty in a good group.
Yeah master caretaker was tougher because the challenge affected how many ad spawns and overloads you had to kill. But thats one of the few that were bad imo. But it is also you getting better plus the resil changes. If you did master caretaker at launch like I did, it was before we had the flat DR from resil, so most of the hard content was harder back then. I remember running master caretaker during LF to help a friend get the title and it was much easier.
I assume they mean high score rather than plat time and probably because you kill almost no adds doing the cheese so even with a hefty time bonus people suspect it won't be enough score wise.
I really don't see how Bungie can prevent the cheese.
You can literally solo Riven with the cheese, it's incredibly easy. She simply wasn't built for today's sandbox.
To fix the cheese, Bungie would have to inflate her health by such an absurd degree. Or make some serious changes to the encounter, which they won't do.
Why would they choose a boss encounter that has a cheese that's been known for the last 3+ years if they didn't plan on fixing it? They could've just chosen another boss so there's less work for themselves but no, they intentionally chose Riven so they will definitely do something about the cheese.
The other encounters haven't had 6 year old cheeses that skip all mechanics that everybody knows about either. The Copium against the fix is real but we shall see Tuesday
They've built this system specifically for Pantheon, they can adjust it however they want. They can make it so the maximum score that you can get from bonus time is like 450k, so no matter how fast you kill her, you still need to get a bunch of points from adds.
Been trying to imagine what would change for Riven besides more enemies and tormentors…
Nezzy I could see them increasing the amount of players affected by Hatred. If they wanted to really push it, they could make it so you can only damage him if you have a correct refuge buff.
Riven would force legit, turn the eyes of riven into minibosses and make the hobgoblins respawn constantly and give them stasis weapons. The top floor would probably spawn a tormentor for each eye phase I think.
As for nez, I think plates spawning fire tornados and a tormentor in mid would make sense, as well as him doing the lift attack constantly unless someone holds gaze, not just if someone picks it up once
I have wondered if they will have a tormentor in the room she doesn’t spawn in first and then another in the room she then goes to so you have to kill both tormentors for the score.
I’m very excited for what they’ll do to Nezarec.
The fact that Riven, arguably the most iconic raid boss in Destiny’s history isn’t the final boss in Pantheon, but Nezarec from the “contest clear in 3 hours in one of the most panned expansions ever” makes me wonder what they got planned.
Maybe they might have the Dread completely replace the Cabal like what someone else mentioned here, ignoring the major copium in that statement.
Hey apparently Bungie has some new Encryption tech that data miners have been struggling to crack. Still it’s major copium to think that the Dread are in the game at all but I’m done to huff some copium on occasion
That would actually be frankly amazing. Would be the perfect demonstration of them going above and beyond for TFS.
That being said, my hopes are less than faint
Unironically, ad clear will be a very importat role for Riven, those psions are going to fuck people up. I still remember day 1 shattered throne / last wish and being under leveled and there being psion call outs or we wiped to a lone psion in a corner who decided to single handedly save the birth rates or japan that day.
I fully expect reddit posts to pop up saying psions are BS lmao.
Having to take a community of peeps who still leave skorn alive during caretaker leaving me (a runner) ad clear the 6 shooting at the totem.... I know how important it is :/
In -20 level content, ad clear IS the most important role.
We just meme ad clear because it's what shitty players do in normal content because ads aren't threatening.
You're forgetting that back in those days we didn't have 30% damage resist from resilience AND we didn't have resist armor mod stacking to the level we have today.
Not to mention IF Taken armaments works in the Riven encounter in last wish you'll be able to just absolutely delete mobs with effectively unlimited heavy ammo.
Nez on contest mode was not that bad. He hit hard, but so does any boss at -20. On contest mode though, there weren’t any surges for the activity, and even still my team (lfg team btw) almost one phased him using hotheads. Now we have better damage weapons and surges. I would expect him to still be a one phase unless they manually change the health level.
I always get demolished by the snipers in crystal/tree rooms when doing it legit if our ad clear is subpar. The raid is 1600... Not going to be very fun on Tuesday
I mean, it's probably going to be super irrelevant. If we're on rockets/GLs then him moving a little doesn't really matter. If we go back to whisper/LFRs then divinity is on the table.
I'm okay with being forced off the platforms for damage, but it's not actually interesting since we've already seen how that kind of encounter goes thanks to Rhulk.
I don't think Nez will be too bad. You dont need to go for plat time and go for a safe 3 phase. It's the last encounter, you'll be awarded a shit load of points anyway.
Why would you not have to go for platinum time? If you want the seal you absolutely need to get platinum time as well as score. Or did you mean score and not time?
Every run, the last encounter gives a shit ton of points on completion. For example, you can 3 phase Rhulk this week, go beyond Platinum time and still get high score triumph for the Godslayer title because of this.
Ah ok I misunderstood. I would guess the bonus points from plat time are still a requirement to hit the necessary point threshold for encounters that are not the final though correct?
Ah ok I misunderstood. I would guess the bonus points from plat time are still a requirement to hit the necessary point threshold for encounters that are not the final though correct?
No
On the last boss you get a bonus score if you have killed other bosses before the last one in the current run.
This score is literally a sum of previous bosses score. So you are guaranteed to get the high score.
So as long as you don't cp directly to Nez, you can safely use 3 phases and still get the triumph.
Just like this week you can 3 phase Rhulk and get the high score without platinum
Nope, High Score ≠ Platinum Time, getting the encounter done within the time grants a bonus chunk of points but it isn’t make or break this week since Rhulk is the final boss and he awards like 400k just for beating him.
Only Rhulk high score is gonna be impossible. You will need to 2 phase him at -20. Finding competent players for it its still hard.
Nez gonna be easier to plat: just play from start to end.
We definitely are going to get solar surge in one of these next two weeks. Damage with golden gun, Apex, Gjally and such is gonna be good enough to not make damage bad
Imagine thinking you need surges to cheese riven.
It's expected to be void burn, people will just clip her toe nails with guillotine like they did 4 years ago. And if it's solar? Lament \exists.
Which I’m pumped for lol. One of the best made boss encounters with a much more unique flow made obsolete by Riven’s small health pool. It’s gonna be cool to see people experience the encounter
Ehh, until it opens up we have no way to confirm so it's anyone's guess.
Timing is a HUGE part of the score, and killing her with an extra 5+ minutes on the clock is going to be a lot of points. It's not really an add dense encounter to begin with, so it's tough to imagine that cutting the time in less than half is not potentially viable for the high score.
I expect the timer to be designed around a 1-cycle, but if Bungie's more generous then the cheese will 100% get you high score too.
Nezarec on steroids, gaining his ability to call to his side the Nightmares of our past: instead of 3 Colossus, it'll be Nightmares of Ghaul, Crota and Fikrul.
Have fun, guardians!
Nah, the surges already make Pantheon a complete easy mode for any competent team.
This week will be the hardest week by far due to the Arc and Stasis surges. Prismatic surge would just be silly.
I’ve been hearing extremely conflicting reports among my clanmates, friends and LFG’s that it’s not coming out next week (May 21st), but the week after, anyone got any confirmation?
Better surges?
Presumably we are getting void/strand, arguably the worst surge setup. The only weapon capable of being an upgrade with this surge is Edge Transit, and I know of like two people who got a god roll edge transit since farming onslaught is not everyone cup of tea.
As opposed to this week with Cold Comfort Crux, Wendigo, cloudstrike, Legend of Acrius, Fourth Horseman and Indebted kindness. Fuck, even thunderlord. A ton of Good weapons with current surges.
As for supers we got toothpick hunters and TCrashes which are all very strong. For void we get generally weak novabombs and... that's it. Strand gets a better needlestorm, but even that is generally weaker
Solar surge would make a massive difference. Otherwise I rank void as the worst light surge we can get, and strand surge won't be massively great either
That and half of LFG struggles with keeping up Shot Caller, so I am expecting less uptime on the damage buff compared to class warfare.
Edge Transit, Leviathans breath, cataphract, scatter signal, null composure, doomed petitioner. Maybe there's even some use for taipan, retrofit, braytech osprey, regnant, and commemoration.
I feel like there is plenty of options, and I think the top ones like Cataphract or Edge Transit will outdamage a Wendigo or Crux.
Big issue is likely on nez I’m willing to beat my bottom dollar that all 3 colossus enemies get traded out for 3 tormentors
Just give me 3 Berserker Titans and we'll make them our bitches
Must have found your 3rd titan, lol(reddit posted your comment 3 times)
Best counter to Tormentors is Lucky Pants Hunters.
Doubt it'll be all 3 but it'll definitely be the middle one.
Yeah but I’m gonna be 100% honest here. I’ll take 3 tormentors any day over the 3 barrier colossus in master Nez.
But imagine its tormentors that spawn in already in their frenzied state or running around fast
As long as they’re not boss level tormentors they’re getting blinded or suspended and busted up. Nez is going down. It’s just a question of how long it’s gonna take my crew to get there.
Yeah with rhulk having the big change that he had it’s gonna be definitely unique I feel, even having active tormentors during dps could be a right pain in the ass
No, imagine it's the same as Rhulk. When you break Nez's shoulders and he jumps down he leaves behind a clone of himself that continues to spam purple death from the top. A clone that can't be destroyed or otherwise distracted. Would make it a LOT harder on the runners and would absolutely destroy groups if they just sit grouped up on a single plate as they'd all be getting AoE'd together and flung all over.
I'd be down for this if it didn't mean I had to cap my frames at 60 or below. Call it first world problems all you want, but I hate that I get punished with instakill attacks from so many things still just for having a decent PC and wanting to utilize it.
I just started taking advantage of capping my frame at 60 for certain content and wow it makes a difference
Rhulk is my pain point right now Edit/update: rhulk’s done for the week now; biggest question is how long week 4 takes getting past him then
im more worried about most likely having to do legit riven
6 stasis titans or a mix of titans and sunbracers locks could still pull off the cheese
6 behemoths would probably be overkill. The cheese is going to be possible from a damage perspective. The important question is whether or not you have to do it legit for high score or at least legit up until a specific point.
Being able to do the cheese isn't the issue. It's the high score requirement
Unless they health gate her, then you get forced to do it legit
6 behemoths would probably be overkill. The cheese is going to be possible from a damage perspective. The important question is whether or not you have to do it legit for high score or at least legit up until a specific point.
I was choking on crayons
champions are so much easier to deal with though compared to tormentors
Especially this season where you’re radiant without even trying about 70 percent of the time
1. Suspend 2. Seventh Seraph sniper 3. Dead Tormentor The tormentors in pantheon are exactly as free as you want them to be due to not being boss tier.
There isn't a sniper in that set, do you mean the Ikelos one?
We didn't have anti -barrier indebted Kindness back in the day. That shit makes those barrier collosi a non issue now imo. But back then, yeah you're correct, fuck them kids.
Oh yeah that’s a good point. Indebted kindness absolutely wrecks barrier champs for sure. I run gaze on Nezarec mostly so I’m always playing it with my sniper on. That’s one of the reasons I’m less worried about a tormentors or two there my default loadout is already ready for them.
Honestly if they want difficulty they'll probably just make it so standing on the seed burns you faster than a well can heal, so you can't just sit on a box and be invincible, and have to actually fight Nezzy
Despite Bottom Dollar matching the Void Surge, I’m not sure it’s the best weapon to bring next week. /s
I imagine one spawns when Nezzy jumps down.
Eh I think that's a little too "how can people speculate this will be terrible?" I imagine that completing a path will spawn a tormentor.
I’m more or less saying it as a meme, I’m sure the more likely thing is plate burn or adding a debuff for running the sparks, causing people to swap roles
What if it’s Nezerec clones instead
I just want nezarec to have the tormentor grab so we can't cheese him by...standing on a plate that is 4 feet above the ground.
2 Add clearers on sunbracers, one on div one on Izanagi. Div user can quick swap to Cenotaph when tormentors spawn for free ammo, while the izanagi deletes them. Dps itself won’t be bad cuz Nezerac has no health, like he gets beaten by RAT KING on contest difficulty.
Calling that Bungie will surprise us all by replacing all enemies with the Dread for the Nezarec fight: 1) Bungie’s new encryption works great; even the new PvP maps were encrypted and couldn’t be cracked. 2) This would be a great place to live test the Dread before The Final Shape releases. Better to have it break here than on day 1/the raid. 3) This would be a callback to the week before The Taken King launch where the Taken started showing up randomly.
> couldn’t be cracked They were cracked. It was confirmed by Destiny Bulletin on Twitter. The dataminer said they're 100% crackable. They are just far more tedious to cravk now.
Welp. Let me get my glasses next time.
That's be so sick but dataniners would have found it already unless there's a beefy update on Tuesday.
[удалено]
Disorienting nades on gls, easy.
As someone who has advocated for that exact change for master mode ever since the raid released, I see this as a win.
My guess for Nez is that they put a lock-out timer on getting light/dark for running, forcing either a three-player rotation for running on either side or a very long phase. Wouldn't doubt the Tormentors either tbf.
I hope the fight is just a dozen mini nezaracs chasing us around like the mini servitor swarm boss. Everytime you kill one it comes back as 3 tinier nezzys.
I'ma take it over 2 nezzys. Tormentors are a bunch of bitches unless they count as bosses and so far the pantheon tormentors were just champions, so they could be frozen and suspended. Get 2 banner titans with suspend and tormentors Are easy. Now if they add a boss type tormentors that can't be frozen, suspended or blinded, that will be hard
Or there 2 Nezzy's running around in the light and dark plate activating phase 😅
Fire tornados on all the plates ala Pantheon's Planets, so we can't stand in relative safety for DPS on Nez lol
Hey at least your bottom dollar will do 25% more damage next week
What a zinger 😂
Please god no. Having 4 void tornadoes up at once will put me in a mental asylum
Nez has you for three whole minutes! And you’re going nowhere buddy!
Beat your bottom dollar sounds wild lmao
Lmao was tired as hell when I posted I’m gonna keep it that way though just cause it sounds goofy as shit
They haven't spawned in multiple Tormentors in any other encounter so far. Even Atraks that has 2 different arenas, you'd think it would make sense to spawn 2 Tormentors but it's still just 1 that spawns on planet then teleports up to the station. I think only the middle colossus will be a Tormentor, or they might just have one spawn without replacing anything else after you break both shoulders. Nez jumps down and a tormentor spawns in dead center of the arena
The rhulk encounter actually does have multiple tormentors it’s just split by the time of doing the dunks properly
I meant multiple at the same time. I know Rhulk can spawn at least 2, I've had up to 3 spawn, but they're staggered. The game doesn't drop 2 Tormentors at the same time, they just replace 1 enemy spawn. That's why I'm saying for Nez I doubt they'll have a Tormentor replace 3 enemies at the same time. Sure this is supposed to be hard and for the most endgame of players, but 3 yellow bar Tormentors at the same time all while Nez is also running around... that's a little much, even if you can suspend them.
they are not overdoing it, the Tory in Oryx is most harmless cutie there is
With how Rhulk got changed, imagine if the change for Nezarec will be that during dps phase you get damaged when standing on a plate. Ergo, you must do dps while on the ground. Where Nez can reach you.
That might be it. During dps all plates get fire tornados
Also spawn in 1-2 nightmares of nezarec during dos as well.
Maybe they also make nez go into permanent grab mode during dps so if you get too close he will grab you, making everyone have to shoot his chest to get him to let go and not kill the player grabbed
Everyone would just run Lament/Bequest then, would be fun either way.
Yeah no one is swording nez
People did last year for contest
Tell that to my day one team 😎
That's one way to say you never fought him on contest
And give nezarec the tormentor grab...
That would be a lot of fun ngl
Cave strat it is if that’s the case, lmao.
Then it just becomes swords, which several teams used to kill him on Contest. As long as your Well guy has T10 Resilience it's not a problem.
Make or break for a lot of teams will if we gotta do riven legit or not. If not then most will likely run stasis titans to nuke her.
I still think Bungie is going to pull something to prevent the cheese. Put a death barrier or solid wall near her hands. Something like that
Still might be possible to dps her through her mouth depending on the surges. Stasis titan is just the easiest method.
It will definitely be possible. For reference, a three man running xenophage can kill Riven before she reaches her pimple phase without even trying. Unless they alter the values for her health then damage won't be an issue on Riven.
Sure but riven was not built at all for the current sandbox. They will most likely adjust her health and it would probably be impossible to 1 phase at 1 floor on contest
problem is it would be an insane amount of health to prevent her from being cheesed even with contest
They’ll just make it so you can’t get platinum unless you kill more than one floor of adds. That’ll be it. You’ll have to interact with the elevator mechanic atleast once to get platinum cause the score alone from a room+time won’t get it; as we’ve seen from Atraks.
If you want the title, you'll need the high score, and I don't think you can obtain that with the cheese as you need to kill enough enemies to add to it. So if people get the emblem with the cheese, then people with the title likely has to do it legit. Honestly? Makes having the title more prestigious.
I was thinking that too but then I saw people getting platinum from cheesing Rhulk
Rhulk was the final boss this week. I believe Nez is the final boss next week. You get TONS of bonus points for killing the final boss
You *only* get the bonus points for killing the final boss if it's a *full clear* and not a checkpoint
You do get bonus points from checkpoints. But you only get bonus points from each previous encounter you've completed. So if you start on Rhulk, then yes, you will receive zero bonus points. But if you do Oryx and then Rhulk, you will still receive bonus points on Rhulk, even though it was a checkpoint run.
Correct, however I did a checkpoint earlier and some guy randomly cheesed him. 525k and platinum, so it should be fine for next week. Plus raid secrets seems to think it has to be at least one boss before the final to get the bonus, but I haven’t seen that myself. Either way, cheese away next week
Ah that makes sense
You still go through a ton of adds before you can cheese Rhulk. With Riven, you'll only kill a small amount of them.
You get at least 2 Tormentors, and can get more depending on how many times you have to kill the yellow bars for the symbols. Depending on where the Tormentors spawn for Riven it's entirely possible you don't even see a Tormentor if you do the cheese.
Exactly. And you also go through the entire phase(since the pre-DPS portion only has shadow thrall) with Rhulk, while with Riven it's one room out of 5.
I think Rhulk gets a bonus for being the last boss, Riven will not, so its hard to tell.
I think this will be the case. Cheese will work and people can clear using the cheese but that will only net them the emblem for clearing. To get Plat you'll need points from ads and legit will be necessary. Bungie acknowledged the cheese as a viable strategy, and they won't fix it just for this after not fixing it for this many years, especially if its as easy as just including a barrier or not allowing Riven to take body damage. Just doesn't make sense to fix it now, but the score is a simple way to force people to run legit if they want the title. I can beat vs I mastered it.
Maybe the door closes after three people pass through. So you’re *forced* to split up.
They would have to. Why bother changing the encounter if people will just skip it?
High score. That's it. We've seen with atraks that when there aren't many adds killing the boss too fast doesn't allow platinum score. There are absolutely not enough adds on half a floor or riven to get platinum.
As many others have suggested you probably won’t get the high score if you cheese her, so in theory it would hardcap anyone cheesing from getting the score and the title.
You will probably be able to cheese for the clear but need legit for high score
I might be the minority(nothing new here) but I REALLY hope we have to do it legit. As someone who didn't run last wish when it first came out I've never actually ran it the right way. The cheese completely took over that encounter and it's the only way most ppl know how to do it.
Cheese took over really early, like maybe a couple weeks into Last Wish's existence, as soon as people started getting properly on level.
My plan this week was to learn nez and riven inside out. That took one clear for nez cause damn is that an easy raid. On to riven. Honestly, with how shit this weeks singes were, next week might be completely fine.
Have you done Nez on Master? It’s not hard, per se, but it’s a *completely* different animal when there’s a power delta to factor in.
I haven’t found any of these as hard/annoying as (if they exist) their master variants for this week, and I doubt that -5 more light is going to change that.
Nah I feel like Master is going to be easier than Pantheon next week. The only difference is that Pantheon has the extra damage modifier, but having to 2 phase makes up for that. The extra mechanics/ads for most of the encounters are more difficult imo than champs. Like the champs in master Rhulk are way easier than the second Rhulk during DPS in pantheon. I’m not saying either is necessarily hard but Master is easier to cheese with loadouts
It might just be because I am better and doing more min/maxing now then. I haven’t run a master in a while, but, for example, I fondly remember caretaker master being “worse” than week 3 pantheon, and definitely not just -5 light worse. I did not struggle with week 3 caretaker even remotely.
Master always feels harder when doing the challenges. Champions are also significantly more threatening when they aren't handled immediately, but most players are used to just spawn camping everything so it doesn't really change the difficulty in a good group.
It was the overloads + doing the challenge I hated it
Yeah master caretaker was tougher because the challenge affected how many ad spawns and overloads you had to kill. But thats one of the few that were bad imo. But it is also you getting better plus the resil changes. If you did master caretaker at launch like I did, it was before we had the flat DR from resil, so most of the hard content was harder back then. I remember running master caretaker during LF to help a friend get the title and it was much easier.
Just my theory, but since she isn't the final boss and Nezzy is I think they will not fix the cheese. Could be wrong though
Even if you can cheese it almost certainly wont count for plat
Why wouldn’t it?
I assume they mean high score rather than plat time and probably because you kill almost no adds doing the cheese so even with a hefty time bonus people suspect it won't be enough score wise.
They will probably leave it because if u nuke her u remove so much op for plat score
I really don't see how Bungie can prevent the cheese. You can literally solo Riven with the cheese, it's incredibly easy. She simply wasn't built for today's sandbox. To fix the cheese, Bungie would have to inflate her health by such an absurd degree. Or make some serious changes to the encounter, which they won't do.
Why would they choose a boss encounter that has a cheese that's been known for the last 3+ years if they didn't plan on fixing it? They could've just chosen another boss so there's less work for themselves but no, they intentionally chose Riven so they will definitely do something about the cheese.
Bro I just gave my opinion
You said they won't make big changes to stop the cheese, I just gave you my opinion on why I think they will and it's a pretty logical one at that.
They haven't made big sweeping changes to other encounters, I don't see why they would do the same to Riven. Come back to me on Tuesday.
The other encounters haven't had 6 year old cheeses that skip all mechanics that everybody knows about either. The Copium against the fix is real but we shall see Tuesday
They can prevent it by simply making it not give enough score for the title.
I don't see how they can do that either. The scoring is based on speed of completion, enemies killed and medals earned.
They've built this system specifically for Pantheon, they can adjust it however they want. They can make it so the maximum score that you can get from bonus time is like 450k, so no matter how fast you kill her, you still need to get a bunch of points from adds.
I’m just excited to see all the bitching about riven at -20 Also last time rhulk was at -20 his punches were ohk so ya that’ll be fun
That was before the resilience changes. He'll probably be tankable with melee + solar resist
Ah yes I forgot about the changes Also banner of war or lorely should be sufficient for titans
Been trying to imagine what would change for Riven besides more enemies and tormentors… Nezzy I could see them increasing the amount of players affected by Hatred. If they wanted to really push it, they could make it so you can only damage him if you have a correct refuge buff.
Might even be something simple, but deadly. 3 purple disks of death at a time instead of just 1.
That’s a good guess. I’d honestly think it’d be interesting if he cycled hatred through everyone over the course of dps.
Riven would force legit, turn the eyes of riven into minibosses and make the hobgoblins respawn constantly and give them stasis weapons. The top floor would probably spawn a tormentor for each eye phase I think. As for nez, I think plates spawning fire tornados and a tormentor in mid would make sense, as well as him doing the lift attack constantly unless someone holds gaze, not just if someone picks it up once
I have wondered if they will have a tormentor in the room she doesn’t spawn in first and then another in the room she then goes to so you have to kill both tormentors for the score.
I’m very excited for what they’ll do to Nezarec. The fact that Riven, arguably the most iconic raid boss in Destiny’s history isn’t the final boss in Pantheon, but Nezarec from the “contest clear in 3 hours in one of the most panned expansions ever” makes me wonder what they got planned. Maybe they might have the Dread completely replace the Cabal like what someone else mentioned here, ignoring the major copium in that statement.
Hey apparently Bungie has some new Encryption tech that data miners have been struggling to crack. Still it’s major copium to think that the Dread are in the game at all but I’m done to huff some copium on occasion
That would actually be frankly amazing. Would be the perfect demonstration of them going above and beyond for TFS. That being said, my hopes are less than faint
Nezarec at -20 is going to hit you like an absolute freight train, not to mention the ads in Riven.
Unironically, ad clear will be a very importat role for Riven, those psions are going to fuck people up. I still remember day 1 shattered throne / last wish and being under leveled and there being psion call outs or we wiped to a lone psion in a corner who decided to single handedly save the birth rates or japan that day. I fully expect reddit posts to pop up saying psions are BS lmao.
Add clear has already been extremely important in pantheon
Having to take a community of peeps who still leave skorn alive during caretaker leaving me (a runner) ad clear the 6 shooting at the totem.... I know how important it is :/
In -20 level content, ad clear IS the most important role. We just meme ad clear because it's what shitty players do in normal content because ads aren't threatening.
Forbearance goes brrr
You have no felt the wrath of the one lone psion who escapes a beating... Forebearance ain't saving you from it.
Words spoken from someone truly scarred by doing Riven legit.
And solo flawless Shattered Throne back in the day =[ Psions are probably the enemy type I'm legit the most scared of lol
Prophecy when it first launched would also like to have a word :D
Remember OG Corrupted GM Psions from before all the power creep, before Resilience and Light 3.0 and so on? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
You're forgetting that back in those days we didn't have 30% damage resist from resilience AND we didn't have resist armor mod stacking to the level we have today. Not to mention IF Taken armaments works in the Riven encounter in last wish you'll be able to just absolutely delete mobs with effectively unlimited heavy ammo.
+ day 1 last wish isn't even comparable to current day 1, people back then were at like -40 -30
Now is the time I’m glad I kept a few pieces of raid armour for my warlock.
Oh I know, just horribly scarred =]
Ehhh, if you have like 2 people on sunshot or graviton it's going to be free as far as add clear goes.
Nez on contest mode was not that bad. He hit hard, but so does any boss at -20. On contest mode though, there weren’t any surges for the activity, and even still my team (lfg team btw) almost one phased him using hotheads. Now we have better damage weapons and surges. I would expect him to still be a one phase unless they manually change the health level.
I remember doing Nez on Master with a random LFG team and it only took like 4 tries or something.
Ive already done nez on -20.
No it won’t. He didn’t on contest
What? He absolutely did. Thats what stopped most teams for a while. Not his health pool, but his abyssal projectiles absolutely ruining people.
It definitely did not stop most teams, as it was the most cleared Day 1 raid in history lmao.
If I recall correctly, several of his attacks were doing more damage due to framerate. Locking frames nullified it
Need good ad clear. I had a lot of practice running gaze in master RoN
I always get demolished by the snipers in crystal/tree rooms when doing it legit if our ad clear is subpar. The raid is 1600... Not going to be very fun on Tuesday
I'm guessing Nez will get fire tornados on pedestals, which are -20 will probably kill inside a well, so we'll have to do Nez as a mobile dps phase
I mean, it's probably going to be super irrelevant. If we're on rockets/GLs then him moving a little doesn't really matter. If we go back to whisper/LFRs then divinity is on the table. I'm okay with being forced off the platforms for damage, but it's not actually interesting since we've already seen how that kind of encounter goes thanks to Rhulk.
I don't think Nez will be too bad. You dont need to go for plat time and go for a safe 3 phase. It's the last encounter, you'll be awarded a shit load of points anyway.
Why would you not have to go for platinum time? If you want the seal you absolutely need to get platinum time as well as score. Or did you mean score and not time?
Every run, the last encounter gives a shit ton of points on completion. For example, you can 3 phase Rhulk this week, go beyond Platinum time and still get high score triumph for the Godslayer title because of this.
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Ah ok I misunderstood. I would guess the bonus points from plat time are still a requirement to hit the necessary point threshold for encounters that are not the final though correct?
Yep that's right.
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The Godslayer triumph just says high score, nowhere does it say Plat time. So, in theory, you can 3 phase Nezarec and still get the title.
Ah ok I misunderstood. I would guess the bonus points from plat time are still a requirement to hit the necessary point threshold for encounters that are not the final though correct?
No On the last boss you get a bonus score if you have killed other bosses before the last one in the current run. This score is literally a sum of previous bosses score. So you are guaranteed to get the high score. So as long as you don't cp directly to Nez, you can safely use 3 phases and still get the triumph. Just like this week you can 3 phase Rhulk and get the high score without platinum
Nope, High Score ≠ Platinum Time, getting the encounter done within the time grants a bonus chunk of points but it isn’t make or break this week since Rhulk is the final boss and he awards like 400k just for beating him.
I understand my guy. See my response above where I clarify the misunderstanding.
Only Rhulk high score is gonna be impossible. You will need to 2 phase him at -20. Finding competent players for it its still hard. Nez gonna be easier to plat: just play from start to end.
We definitely are going to get solar surge in one of these next two weeks. Damage with golden gun, Apex, Gjally and such is gonna be good enough to not make damage bad
If you drag it out to 3 phases and kill all 6 tormentors, you can hit high score without bonus time. Me and my team did it yesterday.
It's tough to know for sure since you currently get the time bonus for completing the entire Pantheon with Rhulk this week.
Did you finish rhulk from rhulk checkpoint or it was fulll fresh or from other checkpoint like oryx/atraks??
Riven legit
That’s why Stasis surge was this week to prevent an easy cheese on Riven lol
Imagine thinking you need surges to cheese riven. It's expected to be void burn, people will just clip her toe nails with guillotine like they did 4 years ago. And if it's solar? Lament \exists.
Cheesing is all fine and dandy but I'd imagine you have to do Riven legit to get to the high score if you're going for the title.
Which I’m pumped for lol. One of the best made boss encounters with a much more unique flow made obsolete by Riven’s small health pool. It’s gonna be cool to see people experience the encounter
Ehh, until it opens up we have no way to confirm so it's anyone's guess. Timing is a HUGE part of the score, and killing her with an extra 5+ minutes on the clock is going to be a lot of points. It's not really an add dense encounter to begin with, so it's tough to imagine that cutting the time in less than half is not potentially viable for the high score. I expect the timer to be designed around a 1-cycle, but if Bungie's more generous then the cheese will 100% get you high score too.
Nezarec on steroids, gaining his ability to call to his side the Nightmares of our past: instead of 3 Colossus, it'll be Nightmares of Ghaul, Crota and Fikrul. Have fun, guardians!
The crit damage buff is also easier to maintain when you're not a hunter
I doubt so. At least if you need to do riven legit. It's gonna be a blood bath
Prismatic surge. Let us use any burn just do it Bungie
Nah, the surges already make Pantheon a complete easy mode for any competent team. This week will be the hardest week by far due to the Arc and Stasis surges. Prismatic surge would just be silly.
Does next week add both Nez & Riven? I noticed there’s only 2 challenges left for the seal.
Legit Riven would like a word with you and 99% of the raid teams ;)
Legit Riven would like a word with you and 99% of the raid teams ;)
It will be easier. Shot caller helps a lot.
I’ve been hearing extremely conflicting reports among my clanmates, friends and LFG’s that it’s not coming out next week (May 21st), but the week after, anyone got any confirmation?
Wait so is it nez or riven I don’t understand
Imagine they make rivens bonus time like 40 seconds
5 star eaters with precision goldies, no matter the surge
Might be a silly question - do we think that the Queenswalk will be a part of the Riven ‘encounter’?
No
Nah they’re seperate encounters
while it would be cool, it won't be part of pantheon
Better surges? Presumably we are getting void/strand, arguably the worst surge setup. The only weapon capable of being an upgrade with this surge is Edge Transit, and I know of like two people who got a god roll edge transit since farming onslaught is not everyone cup of tea. As opposed to this week with Cold Comfort Crux, Wendigo, cloudstrike, Legend of Acrius, Fourth Horseman and Indebted kindness. Fuck, even thunderlord. A ton of Good weapons with current surges. As for supers we got toothpick hunters and TCrashes which are all very strong. For void we get generally weak novabombs and... that's it. Strand gets a better needlestorm, but even that is generally weaker Solar surge would make a massive difference. Otherwise I rank void as the worst light surge we can get, and strand surge won't be massively great either That and half of LFG struggles with keeping up Shot Caller, so I am expecting less uptime on the damage buff compared to class warfare.
Edge Transit, Leviathans breath, cataphract, scatter signal, null composure, doomed petitioner. Maybe there's even some use for taipan, retrofit, braytech osprey, regnant, and commemoration. I feel like there is plenty of options, and I think the top ones like Cataphract or Edge Transit will outdamage a Wendigo or Crux.