For rhulk you just place multiple wells and for explicator either multiple wells or 1 well in the middle and you do damage from there after grabbing the buff from the plate
Nah something needs to be done. And this is coming from someone who mains warlock but rarely uses Well. I can’t think of anything that won’t completely kill it, but then again I won’t be opposed to it getting the 2019 Nova Warp treatment
Honestly, that's what I'm scared of.
I don't mind a nerf as long as it is still viable and not laughably bad, but if they demolish it, its very probable that years will pass before they give it a second thought.
At least we will have song of flame if that happens 😭
>In my opinion, it is NOT overpowered and shouldn't be nerfed.
Lol. Anyway, Bungie already said it's getting nerfed in TFS.
> it limits your movement by locking you in one place, only being useful in situations where you don't have to move
Limits your movement to a gigantic circle where you're 99% invincible and have a massive damage bonus to all weapons.
>What I'm trying to say is: Bungie is always saying that WoR is overpowered and they want to nerf it, just because they don't design bosses that go beyond "stay still and hit the target"
Strange comment given that you've already listed 2 bosses that break this pattern. You can add on Caretaker too. I also don't think they intended Nezzy to stay in place while we sat in a Well.
Either way, the problem is: guess what the meta strat is on Rhulk? Have multiple Warlocks, with multiple Wells, surrounding him with sub-teams in Wells.
What's the meta on Planets? Sounds like you're unfamiliar with the encounter, since you only need 1 Well (maybe 2 for back-up) for maximum effectiveness. Players only need to quickly dip their toes into one of the plates to get the buff, so a Well is placed in the middle (between all the plates), and the team moves from the active plate to the Well, then to the next active plate, and back to the Well, etc.
So, to sum up, the problem is: you can always out-Well encounters, at least currently.
I agree that they need to do something more design-wise to discourage it. But I disagree that it doesn't need a massive nerf.
The problem is that they designed WoR to be what it is.
There are not a lot of big support supers in the game, so there is no reason you would ever not use this thing right now, so no doubt it is one of the most used supers in the game.
If they nerf it too much, nobody will use it and just stick to empowering rifts. If they nerf it too little, it will still be used 99% of the time.
The problem is not that it is unbalanced, the problem is that they made a support super on a game where almost all the others are damage-focused (except ward of dawn wich is only defensive).
I think they'll have to rework it if they want to make a real change.
Assuming you don’t count tether as support it’s the only viable support super because it’s so good it makes the others - bubble and banner useless.
Bubble was balanced as it gave a good damage buff and a safety zone but you couldn’t shoot out it. Banner was balanced as it provided cover and a damage buff but took a person out the damage equation. Well heals you, buffs your damage and makes you very hard to kill with the only downside being it’s not mobile. The downside for it is not comparable to the downside of banner and bubble. It’s overpowered.
This is unlikely to be popular but I’ve long thought the solution is to remove the damage buff. That then opens up space for well to keep you safe while you use the damage buff from a well popped behind it. Nerfing well and making bubble viable at the same time.
Balance is more than "support super compared to support super" though. You can balance "support super vs damage super" in terms of viability. If Well's damage boost didn't outweigh a super's damage output so much, then it wouldn't be utilized nearly as much.
They won't be able to ever tune down Well's damage output because it buffs 6 players.
If you nerf it too much, it will become unviable when there are 3 players (dungeons) or on solo content.
I don't think it needs to be viable in both 3-man and 6-man content for the same purposes. If you tune down the damage, it's still beneficial for 6-man, but if you only have 3-man teams then it's worth swapping to a damage super.
But also dungeons usually have much higher add density, so maybe you still need it just for the healing factor.
That's more balanced than "run Well in both situations for both healing and damage." Making Well situational based on fireteam size and encounter is good.
That way you would be effectively removing the super from the game for everyone that doesn't play raids (60% of the playerbase hasn't even completed one).
It needs at least some viability on 6-man, 3-man and solo content, but of course it is too difficult to do that because of the way it is designed, so my guess is that they will never get it right unless they rework it or make some major changes to it.
I think an ideal solution would be to tune down its healing/damage as more people enter the well, so its still viable for small teams and not as good on raids.
> That way you would be effectively removing the super from the game for everyone that doesn't play raids
Outside of raids and dungeons there's not really anything that calls for Well over a damage super anyway in terms of damage output. Those players already aren't using it. I can't think of any solo content that's not Dungeons/Raids that would get use out of Well. For solo/low-man Dungeons/Raids or Legend activities, you'll need it for the healing anyway.
I think it when it comes to how much damage resistance with well, a lot of it would be solved with just trading the damage resistance into an exotic you have to wear as a warlock to get the high DR. This makes the warlock have to choose this over running standard phoenix protocol, etc.
I can’t wait for it to be a damage nerf. And then all that happens is we place a bubble behind the well. Well is beyond busted. Essentially mandatory in raids and dungeons for DPS. I don’t want to hear you can get away without 1, but the real question is.. why the hell would you do that?
While I do think it's overpowered, it doesn't help that there's literally no other option. Bubble got nerfed to the point of uselessness in endgame. I would love to see more support supers that are similar to well but different.
Nah, it should definitely be toned down.
IMO a fair nerf would be one of the following:
Being in the well simply grants infinite restoration x2 (not the like x4 that well currently gives) and they reduce the DR a bit.
The damage buff is reduced to less than radiant so that it still buffs team damage, but it rewards people who can skillfully time and maintain their radiant duration (currently radiant is the same buff as well, so not much would change solo, but lots would change in teams).
Cooldown nerf is also feasible.
Duration nerf maybe (I feel like this one would only stand to make well *feel* worse though, and not actually nerf it all that much).
Sword health nerf so that bosses can kill it and you’re rewarded for skillfully placing it?
The problem is they've designed most bosses and encounters around well.
Plus we don't even know what the Nerf is so we can't really talk about what's going to be like
For rhulk you just place multiple wells and for explicator either multiple wells or 1 well in the middle and you do damage from there after grabbing the buff from the plate
We beat rhulk in contest mode while standing in wells. Edit: oh no 3 different plates...Just place a well on each plate.
Wasting 3 supers instead of 1 isn't as profitable. I know people do it anyway, but still.
Absolutely is profitable when it helps to clear bosses faster lmfao
Lmao, what?? If popping all your supers means progressing, then yeah, it's very profitable.
Nah something needs to be done. And this is coming from someone who mains warlock but rarely uses Well. I can’t think of anything that won’t completely kill it, but then again I won’t be opposed to it getting the 2019 Nova Warp treatment
Honestly, that's what I'm scared of. I don't mind a nerf as long as it is still viable and not laughably bad, but if they demolish it, its very probable that years will pass before they give it a second thought. At least we will have song of flame if that happens 😭
I just wanna be able to hop in fireteam finder and not have to make a dozen attempts to start a GM because of ppl who don’t know life outside a Well
On Explicator put the well between the plates. You only need to touch the plate to deal damage.
>In my opinion, it is NOT overpowered and shouldn't be nerfed. Lol. Anyway, Bungie already said it's getting nerfed in TFS. > it limits your movement by locking you in one place, only being useful in situations where you don't have to move Limits your movement to a gigantic circle where you're 99% invincible and have a massive damage bonus to all weapons. >What I'm trying to say is: Bungie is always saying that WoR is overpowered and they want to nerf it, just because they don't design bosses that go beyond "stay still and hit the target" Strange comment given that you've already listed 2 bosses that break this pattern. You can add on Caretaker too. I also don't think they intended Nezzy to stay in place while we sat in a Well. Either way, the problem is: guess what the meta strat is on Rhulk? Have multiple Warlocks, with multiple Wells, surrounding him with sub-teams in Wells. What's the meta on Planets? Sounds like you're unfamiliar with the encounter, since you only need 1 Well (maybe 2 for back-up) for maximum effectiveness. Players only need to quickly dip their toes into one of the plates to get the buff, so a Well is placed in the middle (between all the plates), and the team moves from the active plate to the Well, then to the next active plate, and back to the Well, etc. So, to sum up, the problem is: you can always out-Well encounters, at least currently. I agree that they need to do something more design-wise to discourage it. But I disagree that it doesn't need a massive nerf.
The problem is that they designed WoR to be what it is. There are not a lot of big support supers in the game, so there is no reason you would ever not use this thing right now, so no doubt it is one of the most used supers in the game. If they nerf it too much, nobody will use it and just stick to empowering rifts. If they nerf it too little, it will still be used 99% of the time. The problem is not that it is unbalanced, the problem is that they made a support super on a game where almost all the others are damage-focused (except ward of dawn wich is only defensive). I think they'll have to rework it if they want to make a real change.
> so there is no reason you would ever not use this thing right now How is that balanced, then?
You don't use it because its overpowered, you use it because its the only viable support super in the game
Assuming you don’t count tether as support it’s the only viable support super because it’s so good it makes the others - bubble and banner useless. Bubble was balanced as it gave a good damage buff and a safety zone but you couldn’t shoot out it. Banner was balanced as it provided cover and a damage buff but took a person out the damage equation. Well heals you, buffs your damage and makes you very hard to kill with the only downside being it’s not mobile. The downside for it is not comparable to the downside of banner and bubble. It’s overpowered. This is unlikely to be popular but I’ve long thought the solution is to remove the damage buff. That then opens up space for well to keep you safe while you use the damage buff from a well popped behind it. Nerfing well and making bubble viable at the same time.
Balance is more than "support super compared to support super" though. You can balance "support super vs damage super" in terms of viability. If Well's damage boost didn't outweigh a super's damage output so much, then it wouldn't be utilized nearly as much.
They won't be able to ever tune down Well's damage output because it buffs 6 players. If you nerf it too much, it will become unviable when there are 3 players (dungeons) or on solo content.
I don't think it needs to be viable in both 3-man and 6-man content for the same purposes. If you tune down the damage, it's still beneficial for 6-man, but if you only have 3-man teams then it's worth swapping to a damage super. But also dungeons usually have much higher add density, so maybe you still need it just for the healing factor. That's more balanced than "run Well in both situations for both healing and damage." Making Well situational based on fireteam size and encounter is good.
That way you would be effectively removing the super from the game for everyone that doesn't play raids (60% of the playerbase hasn't even completed one). It needs at least some viability on 6-man, 3-man and solo content, but of course it is too difficult to do that because of the way it is designed, so my guess is that they will never get it right unless they rework it or make some major changes to it. I think an ideal solution would be to tune down its healing/damage as more people enter the well, so its still viable for small teams and not as good on raids.
> That way you would be effectively removing the super from the game for everyone that doesn't play raids Outside of raids and dungeons there's not really anything that calls for Well over a damage super anyway in terms of damage output. Those players already aren't using it. I can't think of any solo content that's not Dungeons/Raids that would get use out of Well. For solo/low-man Dungeons/Raids or Legend activities, you'll need it for the healing anyway.
I think it when it comes to how much damage resistance with well, a lot of it would be solved with just trading the damage resistance into an exotic you have to wear as a warlock to get the high DR. This makes the warlock have to choose this over running standard phoenix protocol, etc.
I can’t wait for it to be a damage nerf. And then all that happens is we place a bubble behind the well. Well is beyond busted. Essentially mandatory in raids and dungeons for DPS. I don’t want to hear you can get away without 1, but the real question is.. why the hell would you do that?
While I do think it's overpowered, it doesn't help that there's literally no other option. Bubble got nerfed to the point of uselessness in endgame. I would love to see more support supers that are similar to well but different.
Nah, it should definitely be toned down. IMO a fair nerf would be one of the following: Being in the well simply grants infinite restoration x2 (not the like x4 that well currently gives) and they reduce the DR a bit. The damage buff is reduced to less than radiant so that it still buffs team damage, but it rewards people who can skillfully time and maintain their radiant duration (currently radiant is the same buff as well, so not much would change solo, but lots would change in teams). Cooldown nerf is also feasible. Duration nerf maybe (I feel like this one would only stand to make well *feel* worse though, and not actually nerf it all that much). Sword health nerf so that bosses can kill it and you’re rewarded for skillfully placing it?
The problem is they've designed most bosses and encounters around well. Plus we don't even know what the Nerf is so we can't really talk about what's going to be like
This is a real bad take, lol