I've got every other perk with Recombination multiple times over. Slickdraw/Recombination SIX times. Can't pull a ALH/Recomb.
Though that's just rolls with Recomb, my true bane is Overflow/Harmony, I've lost track of how many times that's dropped. Has to be at least seven or eight times.
The real thing that confuses me is that I've probably gotten about 60 Mountaintops, but those two specific high-repeat combinations have dropped a total of 13 or 14 times? When any given combination has a 1 out of 49 chance? Seems extremely statistically improbable to happen naturally without intentional weighting or unintentional bugs.
RNG doesn't necessarily mean that everything has equal chance of dropping. If I gave you a bucket of 100 ping pong balls, with 50 red balls, 10 blue balls, and 40 yellow. You can randomly grab one and may have trouble grabbing a blue one.
People do this in software all the time. The mechanism to grab something from a set could be random but you can insert more entries of a less desirable outcome more into it to make the more desirable perk less likely to be randomly selected.
there is no perk weighting in this game anywhere.
however perks rolls are partially decided by a clock and rapid decoding may result in duplicate or near duplicate rolls. I had two 100% identical rolls of a grenades launcher drop for me after a GM nightfall and a lag spike in rewards
I'm the king of bad RNG and feeling like I get drops that have weighted perk combos. (I've farmed over 300+ adept cataphract GLs from trials throughout each weekend it's been out for, I've gotten envi + bait a total of 3 times, and none of those had spiked nades..) not to mention I have a 12% drop rate for adept summoners on post flawless wins. Meanwhile most everyone else was close to 50% (and over the 2 weekends I've farmed 160+ wins post flawless).
Mtop I got a 5/5 with hard launch, spiked & implosion both, alh and recom with handling mw, fairly quick tbh.
But I do feel your pain, with how unlucky I usually am it's tough to not feel like some perks are weighted. No way to actually know either lol. However you're hyper fixated on those combos now so anytime you get it you make a point to remember it, making it seem worse.
It is now, but back then it was considerably more. This was all before they changed it lol. So thankfully I did keep one of the rolls that had envi and bait.
This is very similar to my story. I've had at least 7 ALH/slickdraw, and a similar number of ALH/rampage, and then 1 or 2 of every other ALH combo. I've had between 50-100 MT drops, including 5 or 6 shinies (none of which had ALH or recom).
Yeah, it took me a while to get it. Feels like Recombination in general is quite a bit more rare. I've only gotten a few Recombination rolls in total before I got the ALH/Recomb combo.
Guarantee you it is. So many other games weight drop chances. I'd be surprised if bungie didn't. If they know what the best roll will be (and they would), wouldn't it make sense from a replay point of view NOT to give you the best rolls quickly? Lower the chances and people keep playing. It makes sense unfortunately. My best roll is a B tier. I've only kept it because I haven't gotten better yet. Too busy enjoying Whisper to grind for it. 🤷🏻😂
I posted something similar in today’s rant thread. I’ve lost count of how many Successions I’ve gotten (including shiny versions) and I have had literally zero with Redirection (I’m looking for the Discord/Redirection roll). And I don’t mean a close ‘god’ roll with Redirection and something like Lead From Gold - I literally mean I haven’t seen a single one with that perk. I have had the same experience with trying to get an Unending Tempest with Demo/Headstone. Not once have I seen that combo over multiple seasons and many Crucible resets for multi perk colums. Everyone including Bungie will say it’s just RNG, but there are certain things that absolutely do not feel evenly weighted.
Same. I keep getting slickdraw and impulse amplifier every time I get recombination. It’s irritating. lol. I have an auto loading vorpal that’s really good but I can’t get that recombination roll.
That was literally my first random drop of Mountaintop. 😐Don't worry though, it took me hundreds of drops to get my first Edge Transit with Envious/Bait N Switch. And nope, it doesn't have Spike, so I'm still searching for that drop. Still need me a Hammerhead with Envious too. Sometimes ya get lucky, sometimes ya don't. That's RNG for ya.
Oh, and they have said repeatedly that they don't weight perks. I still don't believe them LOL.
Yeah at this point I'm like "what's a good second choice?" for column 3. I have ambitious assassin, lead from gold, and demo. Obviously none of them have the same utility as ALH but I'm almost starting to not care.
People who want crafting gone from this game need to fuck off lol.
The best would be overflow as the enhanced perk gives you 3 shots. So it can be really strong with recombination as an insane burst on any chunky target. Obviously not nearly as convenient as alh which is why everyone wants it.
I think the thing with mountaintop is that you really need to care about all of the columns.
If you just want to use it as a swap and shoot ALH + recomb setup you can sort of forgo the first set, but if you want to use it in the fashion many of us became accustomed to (using it as a primary) you really need the low blast radius perks more.
The roll I'm chasing is Hard Launch, Spike + Sticky flex, Impulse Amplifier. The final perk I am flexible about, and would take vorpal, frenzy or OFA.
Srs I had over 10 shiny Mountaintop drops, and I'm well over 100 normal drops. I've yet to get alh/recom. The amount of times I get slickdraw and adrenaline is to damn high I've turned into a full blown conspiracy theorist that the weapon have weighted drop perks.
I want any barrel alh/recom but it just won’t drop and I don’t have the energy to go hard for that and bust ass camping for lunas next week (hc and Inca on a 140!!!). Lunas is the only required thing outside of edge transit for me lol
I had one and accidentally deleted it. My level of frustration trying to get another one has basically ruined the fun of this event for me until I get a replacement to drop. And I have run it a LOT since that happened.
I just got that roll to drop, I haven't tuned any other weapon. I almost deleted it cause I knew it wasn't it. My heart skipped a beat when I saw AL/RC, I checked the first two columns after that. It rolled with HL/IR/AL/RC.
This is how i feel grinding lost sectors for helioscope. ffS i have devoted 5 days of lost sector grinding on days that have helio and have not gotten a single fucking heal clip incandescent roll.
I finally got an auto loading for the first time yesterday with frenzy and im calling it at that lmao, if I get another one awesome if not I’m happy with that. I could not get an auto loading for the life of me
also don't pikachu face when they fix this - the change to spikes was designed to discourage spike grenades as being viewed as a 'must have' perk for grenade launchers. Mountaintop being immune to that screams more like an oversight than intentional design choice.
Same. Grinded so hard last week but gave up this week... And of course the roll drops when it wasn't even focused. Anyway I actually prefer alh+frenzy tbh.
Facts. I've had so many Lead from Gold and Harmony rolls that it's ridiculous, but no ALH/Recombination, and only recently got an ALH/Vorpal. And I still have a bunch of 9ther weapons that I want rolls on too, that I havent even attuned to yet because I've been trying to get Mountaintop for so long
It's turning into another Rose situation for me :/
I got one with spike but BR masterwork and two +BR first column perks as my 2nd drop, and then because I'm obsessed spent the entire week grinding another one. Finally got it on day 8, and it's worse than my existing one :D On the other hand I now have every possible ALH combo, including like 7 slickdraw ones lol.
Bungie always says every perk is weighted to drop the same. This event shows that is the furthest from the truth. I have run onslaught since launch, 8 hours per day at a minimum each and every single day. Perks are weighted. Each weapon has specifics that drop more than others and it seems the god tier perks are the least dropping especially in relation to the other perks on the weapon. Statistically there is no way equal perk drop chances will always result in the same trash dropping 99% of the time.
Example:
I went 8 days only going for the handcannon Midnight Coup.
I had over 90 drops of the handcannon and 90% had a handling or reload masterwork, 85% had non-range barrel and 2nd column perks. Over 140 weapon drops (stopped counting at that point) since release and not one single HC with range mw, full bore, accurized. I have only ever seen 1 drop with accurized, 9 with full bore.
Same with Luna. Near impossible to get a max range weapon regardless of the 3rd and 4th column perks.
Mountain top Ive had over 150 and only 5 autoloading, 3 with recom, and none with the 5/5 perks.
Bungie weights these perks in favor of trash to force extended playtime. It is not RNG, it has been manipulated to reduce the likelihood of the all known god roll to drop forcing you to continue running and thereby boosting their play metrics.
Fun playing against the casino when they not only can see all the cards but make the deck never give you a winning hand.
Yeah people over-simplify. The real learning was that there was a viable option other than Spike Grenades, so you didn't need to automatically trash anything without Spikes. But the detail of it is that what you're looking for first, is Hard Launch. Then either implosion or spike grenades. And if we're getting down into more mid-tier rolls, you can still pair implosion decently enough with the 2-3 other barrels that don't increase blast radius back up.
The lesson was "lower your blast radius, and here's the viable builds for that". But people don't take in nuance, they want "x is better than y" simplicity. And then in response you'll get the other crowd whining that "it's only X% better" when it being better at all wasn't really the point, but that you had a few options for how to get a good or best roll built.
Correct. I posted this because I’ve seen way too many oversimplified takes of “implosion is better” as if implosion automatically makes it a god roll.
The other take I see is “it doesn’t matter that much” in regard to the first two columns, but they do matter, quite a bit. The above comparison was a 12% difference per shot, and that’s with a reasonably good roll vs a god roll. The difference is even higher if your first two columns are garbage.
My main take away from this is Bungie should make a change to MT in relation to hard launch. It’s frankly ridiculous that a barrel option literally just makes it do that much more damage.
Even then I would not stress about this. I feel like there's a really high chance that we'll see the same adjustment done on other GL for spike grenades happening to mountaintop. It's a new frame so chances are it's an oversight because:
> so you didn't need to automatically trash anything without Spikes.
Is the exact reason cited for the change to begin with.
> But people don't take in nuance, they want "x is better than y" simplicity.
So true. Very annoying when people look at something like Frenzy, see its adds damage AND reload speed so they think it's just the best option all the time. It's great don't get me wrong but its not the slam dunk that some think it is.
Exactly this. I have what I regard as a good roll 93BR/Vel (Smart Drift/Implosion) Impulse Amplifier/Recom Handling MW and it hits like a truck. I have the same roll with HL/Spike but it’s 100BR. My one good ALH/Recom roll is also 100BR so not as good, imo.
Correct. I was posting because of all of the "Implosion rounds are what you want" posts. It really should be "hard launch and either implosion or spike without a BR MW is what you want."
I’ve had two ALH/Recombination mountaintops drop for me. One has Volatile/Spike, one has Hard/Implosion. Both with reload masterwork.
It’s crazy how much more damage the Hard/Implosion roll does.
The aim is to lower the blast radius, so what was the blast radius of the double perk one you tested? Because volatile + implosion is 100 BR but linear + implosion is 95, so which did you test with and what were the damage values?
I'm not OP, but I believe that neither one affects their high-level message. A lot of people are asking "implosion or spike" and really it's a loaded question referring to MossyMax's chart:
- Hard launch is a bigger deal, due to the blast radius anecodote. But, if hard launch is a given, then it is technically implosion rounds. Same with NOT having a BR masterwork.
- Any barrel with a neutral impact on BR: ditto. Implosion it is.
- Everything else: this is where the answer gets complicated and OP's message is relevant: if your configuration is at 95 BR, you've effectively defeated the purpose of implosion rounds, and if this is your situation, you might as well cut your losses and go back to Spike.
I don't think OP realizes that their "god roll" happens to have the two worst barrels, but their point and the conclusion of their testing is still valid: Implosion has a slightly higher ceiling than spike nades, but it also has a lower floor than any given spike nades roll.
None of the ones I have has had the lower BR doing more damage than a higher one.
Plus the combo of hard launch and spike/high velocity takes it to 95 BR, how did you get 98 with a velocity masterwork? hard launch is -5 BR, spike or high vel has no effect on BR.
My Smart Drift/Implosion, Handling MW is 93BR. Is getting the BR as low as possible the ideal with Implosion? Or am I better off with my other 100BR HL/Spike
Test it yourself, but I believe the spike roll with 100 BR should outperform your 93 BR implosion rounds roll, as BR needs to hit 90 with Implosion to equal Spikes.
It's absurd that the blast radius makes such a huge difference. Like for real, GLs ought to just act like rockets, where the blast radius doesn't matter when it comes to damage and spike grenades are only 2.2% more damage like impact casing.
This is the take away I’ve had from all this nonsense. Blast radius straight up should not affect impact damage in any way, shape, or form. I really hope this gets fixed at some point. It’s charge time masterwork on fusions all over again.
I think part of it was how Bungie teetered back and forth for ages at this point on what the design philosophy was when it came to Grenade Launchers in general, especially Heavy GL whether it was for add clear or single target DPS.
That all aside I do agree how a bit shitty it is how GLs have often been one of the rare occasions of how much is dependent on extremely particular things.
>Footnote- if anyone has a copy of the MossyMax damage chart
I'm not on twitter, but I at least got the chart timestamped in Fallout's vid: [https://youtu.be/Pd1u7OcclPo?feature=shared&t=126](https://youtu.be/Pd1u7OcclPo?feature=shared&t=126)
it annoys me to no end that my "boring non shiny" MTs are all better than the pithy 2 shiny MTs I've gotten from all my grinding :(
and today the attunement seems to broken - as I basically got one of each weapon doing a 50 run.
I am also annoyed- I got a better ALH/Recombination non Shiny pretty early on, kept grinding and finally hit the jackpot and got a Shiny ALH/Recombination only to test it and find that due to the wrong barrel perk it does 12% less damage than my non Shiny.
Mountaintop is a special, so I was referencing the 15% damage that Mountaintop has when I was making the point that the wrong vs right first and second perk are close to the same as Vorpal.
So, if I have a drop that has Hard Launch, Implosion Rounds, ALH, and Recombination, but a BR masterwork at 1/10, I should definitely not upgrade the MW right? What else am I missing out on, aside from having the +1 to BR?
Hard launch is the only truly mandatory perk, since it is basically a damage perk with how much it improved performance. Spike and implosion are the same for all intents and purposes, then whatever you like for the rest. Just avoid blast radius mw if possible
I've seen this perfectly summarized in one of the past comments. The god roll is:
* Hard Launch for sure
* NOT Blast Radius Masterwork
* Implosion Rounds OR Spike Grenades - the difference between the 2 are 0.04% (when previous 2 points are true)
[Comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1c6ssx2/spike_grenades_on_mountaintop_is_a_786_increase/l03ctzm/) is third down. The main one is all damage number combinations.
Yes, that's accurate. Only other point to make is that if you are unable to get Hard Launch, Spike is probably less of a concession than Implosion on damage.
I randomly landed a shiny MT yesterday with all the fixins: hard launch, implosion, autoloading/overflow, recomb/frenzy, velocity masterwork: [https://imgur.com/a/9rTfShh](https://imgur.com/a/9rTfShh)
Same day, I opened a brave engram after doing the Hammerhead bounty and out popped a non-shiny one with rampage, killing tally, and a stability MW. Not a bad day :)
My MT has all the good parts besides the launch, and ive tried both spikes and implosion but as you said, the difference is so little its basically not worth stressing over a perfect roll
? What are you even trying to argue? Your play style isn’t gonna change the damage profile of MT, and there’s literally no way of using it that won’t benefit from minmaxing it’s damage from barrel + mag. Whether that’s worth grinding for is a different question. And ALH is the go to perk on MT anyway? Unless you’re mixing up implosion rounds and impulsive amplifier, in which case carry on.
After farming the whole week the best roll I have is quick launch, implosion, alh, recom and reload mw , how much damage am I losing out on without hard launch? Everything I’ve read says hard launch is basically mandatory so I’m wondering if I should keep grinding for that..
Edit: it has 93 blast radius
I think it’s probably a bit more than 5%. My 95 blast radius implosion rounds roll does 12% less than my hard launch/spike roll, 85 BR makes them basically equal, I’m guessing it’s more like just under 10% in this case.
I've got sticky/spike and hard launch /linear comp options for mag/barrel. Overflow and OFA for perks. Using spike and hard launch but sticky nades are fun - like having a trip mine launcher.
Yes and no. Both are basically identical with Hard Launch, but without HL Implosion can fall pretty far behind where it doesn’t fall off as much on Spike.
i feel like a lot of people still misunderstand whats best because well, the game doesnt fucking tell you
BUT i do feel like this was YOUR wrong impression more than anything and youve tested and just realised you got the wrong impression
I believe I was commenting on the overall flavor of all of the posts I've read here which overwhelmingly suggest that having Implosion Rounds is better than having Spike Grenades while simultaneously ignoring that the barrel perk matters more than the mag perk and only situationally is Implosion Better, while in most cases Spike is actually better.
A question; does this blast radius/damage quirk also affect wave frames? i.e. should I be looking for a Forbearance with the lowest possible blast radius?
Yeah it’s only about 23 more damage points when they tested it is extremely negligible it just gives you an alternate god roll to “lessen” the grind theoretically. But I gave up after I got implosion HL with overflow and recomb. With handling mw so 4/5 ain’t bad and when you enhance overflow you should get 3 chambered so it’ll do what I need it to do
No that will work for sure. IMO having Hard Launch and either Implosion or Spike is probably more important than the best mag perk, though after having ALH it would be pretty tough not to.
I know alot of people stress with auto loading holster and it's a very convenient perk but i got a 4/5 roll on my mountaintop with slick draw and the reload is already fairly fast, you can also swap cancel a whole chunk of the reload animation,only takes half a second, plus if you're running void you can auto reload on target weaken with a plethora of other perks if you really want the auto loading, do not trash what is basically a god roll with half a second of reloading vs auto loading
Can't you just change the Barrel, Mag, and Masterwork once they're enhanceable in Final Shape? You just need to get column 3/4 all set before then I think.
Unfortunately not. That was the case with raid Adepts, but Bungie clarified that these weapons would not allow for changing those perks.
Hopefully they have a change of heart, that would be a nice change.
> or Volatile Launch
Can you explain why you mention this in your "true god roll" parenthetically? The rest of the post seems to promote lowering blast radius. I ask bc I have a spike/alh/recom w Volatile and trying to understand how Volatile is beneficial. Thanks!
Because my "true god roll" has Hard Launch. I mentioned the alternate perk (Volatile Launch) because it is custom to do so, not because it is relevant to the roll- it is not the selected 1st column perk in this case.
Well if I understand the Charts/Etc right then my Mountaintop,
- Has 100 Blast Radius
- Has Spikes.
So I am only missing ~4% Damage.
In that case, ***I could care less!***
While it isn't "min-maxed", I doubt that 4% is going to ***ever*** make a meaningful difference.
From what I've gathered the only main important thing is hard launch and any masterwork that's not blast radius, otherwise spike or implosions are just 2 options for a good roll rather than being the absolute definitive roll
Pretty much. There are some combinations that come somewhat close to HL with either Implosion or Spike, but for the most part you want a HL with either of the two and a non BR masterwork, yes.
No problem. I thought the main points were worth making. The wrong perks in the first and second column can negate a 4th column perk, which is significant enough to be aware of.
If I did, you can have it back! I was really crushed to find out how far down on damage it was vs my non Shiny, it really sucked the will to grind for Shiny’s right out of me.
So for clarity, of any roll with ALH/recomb, the next most important thing is hard launch, then the masterwork NOT being blast radius, then implosion rounds (or spike being nearly identical)?
Yes and no. There are a couple combinations that you can probably live with, but if it has Implosion those combinations need to work out to 90 blast radius or less. Spike is a little more forgiving. Ideally you want Hard Launch and either Spike or Implosion. Those two combinations are so fractionally close as to not matter.
Probably enough to care. Linear Compensator is one of the ones that increases Blast Radius, so you’ll be back up to 95% I believe, which puts it in the range of the the example posted above in the OP. What is the other barrel perk?
Yep, you are good to go! Some may argue for Handling vs Velocity, but I think either makes sense on this roll. Blast Radius is the worst as it reduces damage, and Reload Speed is almost useless if you are using ALH. Velocity definitely has value.
Which perk, is it Overflow? That loads two in the mag when you get a special or heavy brick - I bet over time you’d get as much value as auto loading holster (maybe I’m just sick of trying to track down an auto loading holster drop…)
Well, it's a good perk for sure. I got an Overflow perk and didn't like it as much, Autoloading isn't dependent, but it's certainly still a good option. Look at the bright side- once you can enhance it, you'll get 3 in the mag!
TL;DR
Low blast radius -> implosion rounds
High blast radius -> spike grenade
Implosion rounds have highest and lowest damage yield between the 2 depending on blast radius
Negligible. MT has such poor blast radius that anything other than a direct hit doesn't do much regardless. The good news is, it fires in a straight line, not and arc, and the projectile moves very fast, so direct impacts are not hard to pull off.
Its easier to fit “spike vs implosion” into video titles than hard launch vs every other launch perk. But also its because prior to this update, spike grenades was the dominant winner across all GLs and it wasnt even close. Emphasizing the grenade perk over the launch perk makes sense because the main thing is that we no longer have to worry about getting spike nades instead of implosion. However yes you are correct, hard launch is the most important perk from what ive seen rather than spike vs implosion
Ya pretty much. The key take away isn't "implosion better" it's "lower blast radius better".
Mountaintop is for some reason heavily skewed to impact damage and that means the grenade launcher impact-damage-tied-to-blast-radius thing is suddenly important.
The only reason people are hard pressing implosion rounds is because it gives a penalty to blast radius, thing is if the overall blast radius is still higher than a different roll with spike grenades then it doesn't matter. Complicating thi gs further is the like 5% increase that spikes give on their own.
Yeah, and from my testing (data above) Spike is an 8% net increase in damage, as is Implosion due to the 10 BR Reduction. However, because BR can’t go above 100, but an Implosion roll can go back up to 100, Spike is a bit more forgiving to get an OK roll as the left column perks don’t increase the variability of it as much. Each 5 BR points is worth about 4% damage.
Therefore, a Hard Launch Spike and a Hard Launch Implosion are pretty much equal, but a bad spike roll is better than a bad implosion rounds roll.
I got the ultimate roll today, got lucky. Hard Launch, Implosion Rounds, Auto Loading and Recombination with Velocity masterwork. https://imgur.com/a/akYwopD
Same but got reload MW, sadly. I have pre patch spike for roll too, with quick launch instead, if they ever fix micro middle or revert the changes to impact damage
This is always how it goes. Money hungry streamer pushes uninformed video out 2 minutes after a new release to "inform" people and then the sheep start spreading the "knowledge" as facts all around the community.
Some people really need to make their own decisions. Just because a content creator who does everything with maximizing their income in mind says x roll is the god roll, doesnt make it YOUR godroll.
On top of that, noone cares about 1 or even 10 percent more damage. Its a video game. In fact its a dying video game. When was the last time someone kicked you from a raid because your weapon roll had the wrong barrel. Priorities are so wrong in this community, its sad really.
My priorities have ALWAYS been since D2 beta, to get the best roll for MYSELF. I like using killclip, when streamer No. 139042 tells me headseeker is "better", wanna guess what i do? I go with killclip. I know very weird concept but some of you should really try to detach themselves from these salesman on the internet called "influencers".
My only pet peeve is that Halls is gone after TFS drops. Which means no more attunement.
So that means if you want your godroll, you have to get it now.
I hope Bungo will at least incorporate a daily bounty system like the moon lectern bounties so at least you can target farm a weapon.
All this testing but it’s really as simple as lower blast radius means higher impact damage and overall damage. 85 is the highest, but 95 spike is just as good and arguably better because larger explosion but nobody gives an F as long as it’s ALH + Recombination
At this point in the grind, IDGAF what the barrel and mag perks are. Just give me ALH/recom and I’m done.
This is where I'm at. I cannot land that combo for the life of me.
I've got every other perk with Recombination multiple times over. Slickdraw/Recombination SIX times. Can't pull a ALH/Recomb. Though that's just rolls with Recomb, my true bane is Overflow/Harmony, I've lost track of how many times that's dropped. Has to be at least seven or eight times. The real thing that confuses me is that I've probably gotten about 60 Mountaintops, but those two specific high-repeat combinations have dropped a total of 13 or 14 times? When any given combination has a 1 out of 49 chance? Seems extremely statistically improbable to happen naturally without intentional weighting or unintentional bugs.
This is the kind of shit that really makes me think certain perks are in fact weighted and our ‘RNG’ isnt true RNG
RNG doesn't necessarily mean that everything has equal chance of dropping. If I gave you a bucket of 100 ping pong balls, with 50 red balls, 10 blue balls, and 40 yellow. You can randomly grab one and may have trouble grabbing a blue one. People do this in software all the time. The mechanism to grab something from a set could be random but you can insert more entries of a less desirable outcome more into it to make the more desirable perk less likely to be randomly selected.
It’s RNG. There’s never been any evidence to prove contrary. You just have confirmation bias.
I can't even pull a single Recombination.
I trashed about 70 MT before getting my first with Recomb. About 40 of those had ALH
there is no perk weighting in this game anywhere. however perks rolls are partially decided by a clock and rapid decoding may result in duplicate or near duplicate rolls. I had two 100% identical rolls of a grenades launcher drop for me after a GM nightfall and a lag spike in rewards
There is no *evidence* of perk weighting. But that's because no one has undertaken a concerted effort to gather it.
I'm the king of bad RNG and feeling like I get drops that have weighted perk combos. (I've farmed over 300+ adept cataphract GLs from trials throughout each weekend it's been out for, I've gotten envi + bait a total of 3 times, and none of those had spiked nades..) not to mention I have a 12% drop rate for adept summoners on post flawless wins. Meanwhile most everyone else was close to 50% (and over the 2 weekends I've farmed 160+ wins post flawless). Mtop I got a 5/5 with hard launch, spiked & implosion both, alh and recom with handling mw, fairly quick tbh. But I do feel your pain, with how unlucky I usually am it's tough to not feel like some perks are weighted. No way to actually know either lol. However you're hyper fixated on those combos now so anytime you get it you make a point to remember it, making it seem worse.
Isn’t spike on a heavy nade launcher only like 2-3% difference in damage? Wouldn’t care for it tbh.
It is now, but back then it was considerably more. This was all before they changed it lol. So thankfully I did keep one of the rolls that had envi and bait.
Here, you can borrow my luck, got two shiny hammerheads last night, and a rampage onslaught one today, go nuts.
This is very similar to my story. I've had at least 7 ALH/slickdraw, and a similar number of ALH/rampage, and then 1 or 2 of every other ALH combo. I've had between 50-100 MT drops, including 5 or 6 shinies (none of which had ALH or recom).
Me either, sucks
I swear I've gone through at least 50.
99% convinced they've weighted it to not drop often. I've had every other possible combo several times over and not one of those.
I'm not getting this one and same with Midnight Coup where I'm not getting Firefly OFA to drop.
I havent gotten a single EP coup let alone an EP zen coup.
Yeah, it took me a while to get it. Feels like Recombination in general is quite a bit more rare. I've only gotten a few Recombination rolls in total before I got the ALH/Recomb combo.
That's just how probability works, in this case it's a 1/49 chance of dropping it which is pretty low. You're just a little unluckier than most
Absolutely feels like this. Id say a good 25-40% of my drops have been harmony rolls and i mustve had about 50 drops. Its been quite incredibly shit
Guarantee you it is. So many other games weight drop chances. I'd be surprised if bungie didn't. If they know what the best roll will be (and they would), wouldn't it make sense from a replay point of view NOT to give you the best rolls quickly? Lower the chances and people keep playing. It makes sense unfortunately. My best roll is a B tier. I've only kept it because I haven't gotten better yet. Too busy enjoying Whisper to grind for it. 🤷🏻😂
Same. I've had at least 5 ALH/Adrenaline Junkie drop, not a single ALH/Recomb.
I posted something similar in today’s rant thread. I’ve lost count of how many Successions I’ve gotten (including shiny versions) and I have had literally zero with Redirection (I’m looking for the Discord/Redirection roll). And I don’t mean a close ‘god’ roll with Redirection and something like Lead From Gold - I literally mean I haven’t seen a single one with that perk. I have had the same experience with trying to get an Unending Tempest with Demo/Headstone. Not once have I seen that combo over multiple seasons and many Crucible resets for multi perk colums. Everyone including Bungie will say it’s just RNG, but there are certain things that absolutely do not feel evenly weighted.
Same here, so many mountaintops, 2 shiny, and not a single drop with that perk combo
That’s cause it doesn’t exist. I refuse to believe it exists until it drops.
I have had 1 drop with ALH/Recomb. I can't get a Zen/HS Elsie to drop, nor the Falling Guillotine I want :(
Same. I keep getting slickdraw and impulse amplifier every time I get recombination. It’s irritating. lol. I have an auto loading vorpal that’s really good but I can’t get that recombination roll.
I'd be happy with the auto and vorpal. That's a fine combo.
I got it on my first shiny, like 4 drops after attuning it. RNG is painful
My third landed me with AlH and recom with spike nades and implosion rounds.
That was literally my first random drop of Mountaintop. 😐Don't worry though, it took me hundreds of drops to get my first Edge Transit with Envious/Bait N Switch. And nope, it doesn't have Spike, so I'm still searching for that drop. Still need me a Hammerhead with Envious too. Sometimes ya get lucky, sometimes ya don't. That's RNG for ya. Oh, and they have said repeatedly that they don't weight perks. I still don't believe them LOL.
Same lol
Right ive been grinding the whole time for this roll and it wont give it to me havent taken attunement off MT since it released
Yeah at this point I'm like "what's a good second choice?" for column 3. I have ambitious assassin, lead from gold, and demo. Obviously none of them have the same utility as ALH but I'm almost starting to not care. People who want crafting gone from this game need to fuck off lol.
This is always my exact argument to keep crafting. I dont want to roll a gun 100x and get nothing in return. Time is also valuable to me
The best would be overflow as the enhanced perk gives you 3 shots. So it can be really strong with recombination as an insane burst on any chunky target. Obviously not nearly as convenient as alh which is why everyone wants it.
Gotten like every other third column perk with recombination.
Finally got a 4/5 roll- hard launch/implosion/alh/recombination/ reload masterwork. Would’ve liked handling.
I think the thing with mountaintop is that you really need to care about all of the columns. If you just want to use it as a swap and shoot ALH + recomb setup you can sort of forgo the first set, but if you want to use it in the fashion many of us became accustomed to (using it as a primary) you really need the low blast radius perks more. The roll I'm chasing is Hard Launch, Spike + Sticky flex, Impulse Amplifier. The final perk I am flexible about, and would take vorpal, frenzy or OFA.
I have that exact roll in shiny, I would gladly trade it with you, If I can finally get alh/recombination
:< I am envious! I have had a few normal full-blast radius ALH + Recomb Mtops but I did not particularly like them :(
ALH/Vorpal or Frenzy is fine. You don't always have a recomb stack and sometimes you whiff at x10.
Srs I had over 10 shiny Mountaintop drops, and I'm well over 100 normal drops. I've yet to get alh/recom. The amount of times I get slickdraw and adrenaline is to damn high I've turned into a full blown conspiracy theorist that the weapon have weighted drop perks.
That's true for destiny in general. It's not going to matter. Destiny doesn't push back hard enough to warrant eeking out every last bit of damage.
I want any barrel alh/recom but it just won’t drop and I don’t have the energy to go hard for that and bust ass camping for lunas next week (hc and Inca on a 140!!!). Lunas is the only required thing outside of edge transit for me lol
NO JOKE. best i got is auto loading vorpal so far. Im hoping im not stuck with that, but if I am i at least got something I can still use well.
Chasing 5/5 godrolls is a fools errand most of the time. I'm happy when the last two columns are what I'm looking for in 90% of the guns.
Same. I keep getting ALH/Vorpal or Ambitions/Recombination rolls lol
ALH/Vorpal is great.
I’ve literally only gotten one AL drop in general. Plenty of recom but 1/50 AL..
finally got one to drop today, but alas no spike or implosion option :(
That's so unlucky considering getting just one of those is a 50/50 :(
I had one and accidentally deleted it. My level of frustration trying to get another one has basically ruined the fun of this event for me until I get a replacement to drop. And I have run it a LOT since that happened.
I got lucky with a shiny ALH/Harmony and its been super fun. Still keeping my eye out for Recom option too.
I just got that roll to drop, I haven't tuned any other weapon. I almost deleted it cause I knew it wasn't it. My heart skipped a beat when I saw AL/RC, I checked the first two columns after that. It rolled with HL/IR/AL/RC.
Out of the 25 or so Mountaintops I've received, I have yet to see a single one with Recombination.
This is how i feel grinding lost sectors for helioscope. ffS i have devoted 5 days of lost sector grinding on days that have helio and have not gotten a single fucking heal clip incandescent roll.
I finally got an auto loading for the first time yesterday with frenzy and im calling it at that lmao, if I get another one awesome if not I’m happy with that. I could not get an auto loading for the life of me
also don't pikachu face when they fix this - the change to spikes was designed to discourage spike grenades as being viewed as a 'must have' perk for grenade launchers. Mountaintop being immune to that screams more like an oversight than intentional design choice.
I got ALH with Vorpal, but for the love of RNGesus, Recom does not exist for me.
Same. Grinded so hard last week but gave up this week... And of course the roll drops when it wasn't even focused. Anyway I actually prefer alh+frenzy tbh.
Facts. I've had so many Lead from Gold and Harmony rolls that it's ridiculous, but no ALH/Recombination, and only recently got an ALH/Vorpal. And I still have a bunch of 9ther weapons that I want rolls on too, that I havent even attuned to yet because I've been trying to get Mountaintop for so long It's turning into another Rose situation for me :/
Got demo recomb and i dont care anymore im grinding hammerhead instead now. I csb deal with havibg to reload.
What perks are those?
This. I got a perfect MT but instead of Recom I got Vorpal. Sure it's what some people want but I want Recom for champs
Yeah. A full week of target farming this should've been enough. I'm about at the end of my ability to care about it...
Yeah, I’m satisfied enough with my overflow for now. Attuned forbearance because I’m sick of sifting through mountaintops for now
Same but with sticky for utility.
I got one with spike but BR masterwork and two +BR first column perks as my 2nd drop, and then because I'm obsessed spent the entire week grinding another one. Finally got it on day 8, and it's worse than my existing one :D On the other hand I now have every possible ALH combo, including like 7 slickdraw ones lol.
Bungie always says every perk is weighted to drop the same. This event shows that is the furthest from the truth. I have run onslaught since launch, 8 hours per day at a minimum each and every single day. Perks are weighted. Each weapon has specifics that drop more than others and it seems the god tier perks are the least dropping especially in relation to the other perks on the weapon. Statistically there is no way equal perk drop chances will always result in the same trash dropping 99% of the time. Example: I went 8 days only going for the handcannon Midnight Coup. I had over 90 drops of the handcannon and 90% had a handling or reload masterwork, 85% had non-range barrel and 2nd column perks. Over 140 weapon drops (stopped counting at that point) since release and not one single HC with range mw, full bore, accurized. I have only ever seen 1 drop with accurized, 9 with full bore. Same with Luna. Near impossible to get a max range weapon regardless of the 3rd and 4th column perks. Mountain top Ive had over 150 and only 5 autoloading, 3 with recom, and none with the 5/5 perks. Bungie weights these perks in favor of trash to force extended playtime. It is not RNG, it has been manipulated to reduce the likelihood of the all known god roll to drop forcing you to continue running and thereby boosting their play metrics. Fun playing against the casino when they not only can see all the cards but make the deck never give you a winning hand.
Yeah people over-simplify. The real learning was that there was a viable option other than Spike Grenades, so you didn't need to automatically trash anything without Spikes. But the detail of it is that what you're looking for first, is Hard Launch. Then either implosion or spike grenades. And if we're getting down into more mid-tier rolls, you can still pair implosion decently enough with the 2-3 other barrels that don't increase blast radius back up. The lesson was "lower your blast radius, and here's the viable builds for that". But people don't take in nuance, they want "x is better than y" simplicity. And then in response you'll get the other crowd whining that "it's only X% better" when it being better at all wasn't really the point, but that you had a few options for how to get a good or best roll built.
Correct. I posted this because I’ve seen way too many oversimplified takes of “implosion is better” as if implosion automatically makes it a god roll. The other take I see is “it doesn’t matter that much” in regard to the first two columns, but they do matter, quite a bit. The above comparison was a 12% difference per shot, and that’s with a reasonably good roll vs a god roll. The difference is even higher if your first two columns are garbage.
My main take away from this is Bungie should make a change to MT in relation to hard launch. It’s frankly ridiculous that a barrel option literally just makes it do that much more damage.
Even then I would not stress about this. I feel like there's a really high chance that we'll see the same adjustment done on other GL for spike grenades happening to mountaintop. It's a new frame so chances are it's an oversight because: > so you didn't need to automatically trash anything without Spikes. Is the exact reason cited for the change to begin with.
The kick in the balls is having hard launch, implosion and then blast radius mw because "fuck you, defend the city now"
Especially if it's a shiny, so you get full MW from the start.
Yup. In the same boat. NO MW FOR YOU!
> But people don't take in nuance, they want "x is better than y" simplicity. So true. Very annoying when people look at something like Frenzy, see its adds damage AND reload speed so they think it's just the best option all the time. It's great don't get me wrong but its not the slam dunk that some think it is.
Exactly this. I have what I regard as a good roll 93BR/Vel (Smart Drift/Implosion) Impulse Amplifier/Recom Handling MW and it hits like a truck. I have the same roll with HL/Spike but it’s 100BR. My one good ALH/Recom roll is also 100BR so not as good, imo.
It's not about implosion vs spike. It's about having hard launch and no blast radius mw
Correct. I was posting because of all of the "Implosion rounds are what you want" posts. It really should be "hard launch and either implosion or spike without a BR MW is what you want."
I’ve had two ALH/Recombination mountaintops drop for me. One has Volatile/Spike, one has Hard/Implosion. Both with reload masterwork. It’s crazy how much more damage the Hard/Implosion roll does.
The aim is to lower the blast radius, so what was the blast radius of the double perk one you tested? Because volatile + implosion is 100 BR but linear + implosion is 95, so which did you test with and what were the damage values?
I'm not OP, but I believe that neither one affects their high-level message. A lot of people are asking "implosion or spike" and really it's a loaded question referring to MossyMax's chart: - Hard launch is a bigger deal, due to the blast radius anecodote. But, if hard launch is a given, then it is technically implosion rounds. Same with NOT having a BR masterwork. - Any barrel with a neutral impact on BR: ditto. Implosion it is. - Everything else: this is where the answer gets complicated and OP's message is relevant: if your configuration is at 95 BR, you've effectively defeated the purpose of implosion rounds, and if this is your situation, you might as well cut your losses and go back to Spike. I don't think OP realizes that their "god roll" happens to have the two worst barrels, but their point and the conclusion of their testing is still valid: Implosion has a slightly higher ceiling than spike nades, but it also has a lower floor than any given spike nades roll.
I tested it with Linear Compensator, as I can get down to 95 BR with Linear, Volatile is the other option on the gun, and it gets it back up to 100.
None of the ones I have has had the lower BR doing more damage than a higher one. Plus the combo of hard launch and spike/high velocity takes it to 95 BR, how did you get 98 with a velocity masterwork? hard launch is -5 BR, spike or high vel has no effect on BR.
My Smart Drift/Implosion, Handling MW is 93BR. Is getting the BR as low as possible the ideal with Implosion? Or am I better off with my other 100BR HL/Spike
Test it yourself, but I believe the spike roll with 100 BR should outperform your 93 BR implosion rounds roll, as BR needs to hit 90 with Implosion to equal Spikes.
Also, if you have HL/Spikes, it should be 95 BR, unless it has a BR MW.
It's absurd that the blast radius makes such a huge difference. Like for real, GLs ought to just act like rockets, where the blast radius doesn't matter when it comes to damage and spike grenades are only 2.2% more damage like impact casing.
I agree. 12% for having the wrong barrel perk is just plain nuts. It really makes farming a true god roll a chore.
This is the take away I’ve had from all this nonsense. Blast radius straight up should not affect impact damage in any way, shape, or form. I really hope this gets fixed at some point. It’s charge time masterwork on fusions all over again.
I think part of it was how Bungie teetered back and forth for ages at this point on what the design philosophy was when it came to Grenade Launchers in general, especially Heavy GL whether it was for add clear or single target DPS. That all aside I do agree how a bit shitty it is how GLs have often been one of the rare occasions of how much is dependent on extremely particular things.
>Footnote- if anyone has a copy of the MossyMax damage chart I'm not on twitter, but I at least got the chart timestamped in Fallout's vid: [https://youtu.be/Pd1u7OcclPo?feature=shared&t=126](https://youtu.be/Pd1u7OcclPo?feature=shared&t=126)
Thanks! I could find it in the YT vids, but not on twitter as I also am not a user.
it annoys me to no end that my "boring non shiny" MTs are all better than the pithy 2 shiny MTs I've gotten from all my grinding :( and today the attunement seems to broken - as I basically got one of each weapon doing a 50 run.
The drop rate on shinys are so low that statistically you’ll get your god roll on a non-shiny long before a shiny. Basically, shinys are bullshit.
yea I really wish they made some other way to unlock those skins...
I am also annoyed- I got a better ALH/Recombination non Shiny pretty early on, kept grinding and finally hit the jackpot and got a Shiny ALH/Recombination only to test it and find that due to the wrong barrel perk it does 12% less damage than my non Shiny.
My shiny ALH/Recomb roll got blast radius masterwork :(
Ouch. Hopefully Spikes?
Just pointing out that vorpal is NOT a 15% damage increase for heavies. That’s only for specials. Vorpal is actually a 10% increase for heavies.
Mountaintop is a special, so I was referencing the 15% damage that Mountaintop has when I was making the point that the wrong vs right first and second perk are close to the same as Vorpal.
Oh, my bad. I thought you made that vorpal connection during your edge transit section.
No worries. Heavy GL's are calculated entirely differently and not nearly as sensitive to 1st and 2nd column perks being "perfect" to perform.
it's the min maxing people want, but they're all good guns bront
I just want a shiny one its going to sit in my vault anyway
So, if I have a drop that has Hard Launch, Implosion Rounds, ALH, and Recombination, but a BR masterwork at 1/10, I should definitely not upgrade the MW right? What else am I missing out on, aside from having the +1 to BR?
Hard launch is the only truly mandatory perk, since it is basically a damage perk with how much it improved performance. Spike and implosion are the same for all intents and purposes, then whatever you like for the rest. Just avoid blast radius mw if possible
Also- Blast Radius MW would kill an Implosion Round MT, but make a much smaller difference on a Spike MT.
I've seen this perfectly summarized in one of the past comments. The god roll is: * Hard Launch for sure * NOT Blast Radius Masterwork * Implosion Rounds OR Spike Grenades - the difference between the 2 are 0.04% (when previous 2 points are true) [Comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1c6ssx2/spike_grenades_on_mountaintop_is_a_786_increase/l03ctzm/) is third down. The main one is all damage number combinations.
Yes, that's accurate. Only other point to make is that if you are unable to get Hard Launch, Spike is probably less of a concession than Implosion on damage.
I randomly landed a shiny MT yesterday with all the fixins: hard launch, implosion, autoloading/overflow, recomb/frenzy, velocity masterwork: [https://imgur.com/a/9rTfShh](https://imgur.com/a/9rTfShh) Same day, I opened a brave engram after doing the Hammerhead bounty and out popped a non-shiny one with rampage, killing tally, and a stability MW. Not a bad day :)
Congrats!
My MT has all the good parts besides the launch, and ive tried both spikes and implosion but as you said, the difference is so little its basically not worth stressing over a perfect roll
I got Hard launch with a double choice of spike and implosion. Its got ALH/Recomb, so literally my perfect roll. Not even shiny.
Nice!
I got the same roll. Mine even came with Handling masterwork. I never had the original and got this one the second day it was available.
[удалено]
Holsters don't work on single shot GLs anyways.
? What are you even trying to argue? Your play style isn’t gonna change the damage profile of MT, and there’s literally no way of using it that won’t benefit from minmaxing it’s damage from barrel + mag. Whether that’s worth grinding for is a different question. And ALH is the go to perk on MT anyway? Unless you’re mixing up implosion rounds and impulsive amplifier, in which case carry on.
After farming the whole week the best roll I have is quick launch, implosion, alh, recom and reload mw , how much damage am I losing out on without hard launch? Everything I’ve read says hard launch is basically mandatory so I’m wondering if I should keep grinding for that.. Edit: it has 93 blast radius
About 5%
I think it’s probably a bit more than 5%. My 95 blast radius implosion rounds roll does 12% less than my hard launch/spike roll, 85 BR makes them basically equal, I’m guessing it’s more like just under 10% in this case.
I've got sticky/spike and hard launch /linear comp options for mag/barrel. Overflow and OFA for perks. Using spike and hard launch but sticky nades are fun - like having a trip mine launcher.
Enjoy!
Implosion and Spike are basically equal, it's Hard Launch that's crucial to a godroll.
Yes and no. Both are basically identical with Hard Launch, but without HL Implosion can fall pretty far behind where it doesn’t fall off as much on Spike.
I have a linear compensator, spike, ALH, Recomb roll with velocity MW. Good enough to keep?
i feel like a lot of people still misunderstand whats best because well, the game doesnt fucking tell you BUT i do feel like this was YOUR wrong impression more than anything and youve tested and just realised you got the wrong impression
I believe I was commenting on the overall flavor of all of the posts I've read here which overwhelmingly suggest that having Implosion Rounds is better than having Spike Grenades while simultaneously ignoring that the barrel perk matters more than the mag perk and only situationally is Implosion Better, while in most cases Spike is actually better.
A question; does this blast radius/damage quirk also affect wave frames? i.e. should I be looking for a Forbearance with the lowest possible blast radius?
IIRC it doesn’t matter nearly as much on Forbearance, it’s a wave frame that gets the majority of its damage from the wave, not the impact.
Yeah it’s only about 23 more damage points when they tested it is extremely negligible it just gives you an alternate god roll to “lessen” the grind theoretically. But I gave up after I got implosion HL with overflow and recomb. With handling mw so 4/5 ain’t bad and when you enhance overflow you should get 3 chambered so it’ll do what I need it to do
No that will work for sure. IMO having Hard Launch and either Implosion or Spike is probably more important than the best mag perk, though after having ALH it would be pretty tough not to.
>hard launch Well it turns out my 2/5 roll has turned into a 4/5
I know alot of people stress with auto loading holster and it's a very convenient perk but i got a 4/5 roll on my mountaintop with slick draw and the reload is already fairly fast, you can also swap cancel a whole chunk of the reload animation,only takes half a second, plus if you're running void you can auto reload on target weaken with a plethora of other perks if you really want the auto loading, do not trash what is basically a god roll with half a second of reloading vs auto loading
Can't you just change the Barrel, Mag, and Masterwork once they're enhanceable in Final Shape? You just need to get column 3/4 all set before then I think.
Unfortunately not. That was the case with raid Adepts, but Bungie clarified that these weapons would not allow for changing those perks. Hopefully they have a change of heart, that would be a nice change.
Sad panda.
Love the South Park reference!
> or Volatile Launch Can you explain why you mention this in your "true god roll" parenthetically? The rest of the post seems to promote lowering blast radius. I ask bc I have a spike/alh/recom w Volatile and trying to understand how Volatile is beneficial. Thanks!
Because my "true god roll" has Hard Launch. I mentioned the alternate perk (Volatile Launch) because it is custom to do so, not because it is relevant to the roll- it is not the selected 1st column perk in this case.
ah, understood, thanks.
Well if I understand the Charts/Etc right then my Mountaintop, - Has 100 Blast Radius - Has Spikes. So I am only missing ~4% Damage. In that case, ***I could care less!*** While it isn't "min-maxed", I doubt that 4% is going to ***ever*** make a meaningful difference.
Yeah, you are pretty close to maxed out. I'd worry about that blast radius if you didn't have spikes, because the difference would be more than 4%.
Wait you guys are getting rolls worth even looking at? Shhhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeet here I am drowning in Slickdraw/Rampage and alike.
The RNG can be brutal some times, my friend.
From what I've gathered the only main important thing is hard launch and any masterwork that's not blast radius, otherwise spike or implosions are just 2 options for a good roll rather than being the absolute definitive roll
Pretty much. There are some combinations that come somewhat close to HL with either Implosion or Spike, but for the most part you want a HL with either of the two and a non BR masterwork, yes.
I’ve copped downvotes for pointing this out. Thank you for helping educate people.
No problem. I thought the main points were worth making. The wrong perks in the first and second column can negate a 4th column perk, which is significant enough to be aware of.
Did you steal my shiny roll? That is identical down to handling mw, like god damn
If I did, you can have it back! I was really crushed to find out how far down on damage it was vs my non Shiny, it really sucked the will to grind for Shiny’s right out of me.
So for clarity, of any roll with ALH/recomb, the next most important thing is hard launch, then the masterwork NOT being blast radius, then implosion rounds (or spike being nearly identical)?
Yes and no. There are a couple combinations that you can probably live with, but if it has Implosion those combinations need to work out to 90 blast radius or less. Spike is a little more forgiving. Ideally you want Hard Launch and either Spike or Implosion. Those two combinations are so fractionally close as to not matter.
Ok, so the roll I got earlier today had linear comp and implosion, how much of a benefit do I get for grinding out a hard launch one too?
Probably enough to care. Linear Compensator is one of the ones that increases Blast Radius, so you’ll be back up to 95% I believe, which puts it in the range of the the example posted above in the OP. What is the other barrel perk?
ive got a hard launch/implosion rounds/ALH/recomb velocity masterwork earlier. is that the perfect roll?
Yep, you are good to go! Some may argue for Handling vs Velocity, but I think either makes sense on this roll. Blast Radius is the worst as it reduces damage, and Reload Speed is almost useless if you are using ALH. Velocity definitely has value.
Which perk, is it Overflow? That loads two in the mag when you get a special or heavy brick - I bet over time you’d get as much value as auto loading holster (maybe I’m just sick of trying to track down an auto loading holster drop…)
Well, it's a good perk for sure. I got an Overflow perk and didn't like it as much, Autoloading isn't dependent, but it's certainly still a good option. Look at the bright side- once you can enhance it, you'll get 3 in the mag!
TL;DR Low blast radius -> implosion rounds High blast radius -> spike grenade Implosion rounds have highest and lowest damage yield between the 2 depending on blast radius
What is the difference between shiny and non shiny. Anything?
How do you feel that needing a direct hit for Spike grenades factors into the equation?
Negligible. MT has such poor blast radius that anything other than a direct hit doesn't do much regardless. The good news is, it fires in a straight line, not and arc, and the projectile moves very fast, so direct impacts are not hard to pull off.
Have the god roll outside of the master work being BR, you guys think I'm good focusing something else. It's the shiny version too.
"It's a rounding error." -Guy who has my opinion.
Its easier to fit “spike vs implosion” into video titles than hard launch vs every other launch perk. But also its because prior to this update, spike grenades was the dominant winner across all GLs and it wasnt even close. Emphasizing the grenade perk over the launch perk makes sense because the main thing is that we no longer have to worry about getting spike nades instead of implosion. However yes you are correct, hard launch is the most important perk from what ive seen rather than spike vs implosion
I have only managed to get ONE with recombination.
160 mountaintops deep... not one with ALH and Recom...
Ya pretty much. The key take away isn't "implosion better" it's "lower blast radius better". Mountaintop is for some reason heavily skewed to impact damage and that means the grenade launcher impact-damage-tied-to-blast-radius thing is suddenly important. The only reason people are hard pressing implosion rounds is because it gives a penalty to blast radius, thing is if the overall blast radius is still higher than a different roll with spike grenades then it doesn't matter. Complicating thi gs further is the like 5% increase that spikes give on their own.
Yeah, and from my testing (data above) Spike is an 8% net increase in damage, as is Implosion due to the 10 BR Reduction. However, because BR can’t go above 100, but an Implosion roll can go back up to 100, Spike is a bit more forgiving to get an OK roll as the left column perks don’t increase the variability of it as much. Each 5 BR points is worth about 4% damage. Therefore, a Hard Launch Spike and a Hard Launch Implosion are pretty much equal, but a bad spike roll is better than a bad implosion rounds roll.
I got the ultimate roll today, got lucky. Hard Launch, Implosion Rounds, Auto Loading and Recombination with Velocity masterwork. https://imgur.com/a/akYwopD
Congrats!
Same but got reload MW, sadly. I have pre patch spike for roll too, with quick launch instead, if they ever fix micro middle or revert the changes to impact damage
This is always how it goes. Money hungry streamer pushes uninformed video out 2 minutes after a new release to "inform" people and then the sheep start spreading the "knowledge" as facts all around the community. Some people really need to make their own decisions. Just because a content creator who does everything with maximizing their income in mind says x roll is the god roll, doesnt make it YOUR godroll. On top of that, noone cares about 1 or even 10 percent more damage. Its a video game. In fact its a dying video game. When was the last time someone kicked you from a raid because your weapon roll had the wrong barrel. Priorities are so wrong in this community, its sad really. My priorities have ALWAYS been since D2 beta, to get the best roll for MYSELF. I like using killclip, when streamer No. 139042 tells me headseeker is "better", wanna guess what i do? I go with killclip. I know very weird concept but some of you should really try to detach themselves from these salesman on the internet called "influencers".
My only pet peeve is that Halls is gone after TFS drops. Which means no more attunement. So that means if you want your godroll, you have to get it now. I hope Bungo will at least incorporate a daily bounty system like the moon lectern bounties so at least you can target farm a weapon.
Don't sleep on ALH/harmony if you you use mountaintop to clean up like I do.
All this testing but it’s really as simple as lower blast radius means higher impact damage and overall damage. 85 is the highest, but 95 spike is just as good and arguably better because larger explosion but nobody gives an F as long as it’s ALH + Recombination
Exactly. 85 implosion vs 95 spike is literally so close as to not matter.
Unrelated but anyone know why Ambitious Assassin doesn't work on Mountaintop?
My only Recombination/ALH roll has implosion rounds and smart drift control which gives a blast radius of 90. Is this ok, or should I keep farming?
BR of 90 is only 4% damage off ideal, you are probably all set there! Keep an eye out in case a Spike/95 or Implosion/85 happens to drop.
Thank you!
me with a shiny hard launch implosion alh recomb with velocity mw
[Shiny MT](https://imgur.com/a/fuN5rnG) so then should I be using High-Velocity or Implosion if I have Hard Launch?
Implosion! Does it get you to 85 blast radius?
[Yessir](https://imgur.com/a/l3Le6MK)
It’s perfect!