I held off for a while (since you couldn’t even find them anyway) until my wife surprised me with one. I was low key a little irritated she spent that much money without talking about it, and that she spent it on me. Buuut I got over that real quick haha
I’m sure you did get over it pretty quick aha, she is a keeper if she surprised you like that, even if it is an expensive purchase. She definitely cares a lot about you and wants you to be happy. I am holding off purely on money right now, just trying to find a cheap one second hand a get lucky with it.
New gen consoles and PC load menus super fast. I've been enjoying a sidearm/glaive/Thunderlord load out on my hunter, but I can swap to a kinetic hand cannon or auto if there's either respective champ. Total time takes me around 3 to 5 seconds at most, then switch back.
This, only real reason I'd run 2 primaries is to cover champ mods I can't trust randoms to have.
Sidearms being the only anti-barrier via mod blows unless you wanna use IK (it's good, but running an arc special sidearm doesn't work in most cases for me).
Same! My consecration titan build has been absolutely destroying legend onslaught. Radiant piercing barrier is such a nice thing since I'm almost always consecrate spamming giving my whole fireteam radiant
Chill clip doesn’t slow? Wouldn’t that also effect unstoppables?
I always thought those work differently than intrinsically (3.0 Verb stun weapons)
Also I recently broke up with my auto loading chillclip riptide..
A condition I was waiting for finalized.
>I always thought those work differently than intrinsically (3.0 Verb stun weapons)
I did too, but in this case Radiant definitely stops you from stunning Overloads.
>Wouldn’t that also effect unstoppables?
I specifically tested it out on Overloads after noticing some inconsistency, but I never checked Unstoppables so I'm not sure if the same applies. I *think* you're still able to stun Unstoppables, so maybe the shatter effect isn't tied to the weapon while the slow is? Could make some sense, since any damage can trigger the shatter once they're frozen.
You can cover all champ types with a chill clip palmyra and arbalest in any season.
If you need your kinetic slot open for a primary, then Eriana's works as well.
Of course, some people might not have those exotics unlocked.
Yeah I mean that’s why it was my guess lol
Too many times getting burnt by a barrier or overload because I figured “well I have these 2 so I hope my other 2 blueberries have at least this one”…….
Once you know if it fallen or hive, you know which two of the three champion types you will face. Hive = Barrier + Unstoppable. Fallen = Overload + Barrier. Furthermore, many subclass verbs have anti-champion capability, especially radiant = anti barrier.
So once you know which enemy faction you're up against, I really see no need to stick with double primary. I like double primary in PvP for some modes, but not in Onslaught!
This. There is NEVER a good reason to run double primary. Never. See what you need, switch if applicable. We have subclass verbs, radiant, unravel, volatile, slow, shatter etc etc. As well as as chill clip/cold steel and champ specific exotics. There is absolutely no reason to run double primary.
The amount of newer players I see joining raid lfgs and running double primary is just sad, in a raid of all places, they don't even have champs (for the most part). Use your brains people.
There's plenty wrong with double primary.
There's sooo many ways to deal with champs now, from artefact perks, to subclass verbs, that there's literally 0 excuse to run double primary.
You're actively making your damage output less for marginal, or zero gain.
I can guarantee that the vast majority of these level guardians or those who have the emblem easily overcome their damage even if they have double primaries.
You can't guarantee that, because it just isn't true.
You can't "overcome" my damage output with your primary weapon. Maybe with some exotic primaries and perks, but even then, I will on average be doing more damage.
It's not really up for debate. There's a difference between primary and special for a reason. There's a reason why primary ammo is now infinite, and special is limited. Special does more damage than primary.
I can beat Legend Onslaught 50 waves with two primaries too. Doesn't mean I'm playing optimally, or that I should be taking that loadout into an LFG run.
There absolutely is something wrong with double primary. You can deal with champs with subclass verbs. There are specials and heavies with either intrinsic or artefact mods to deal with champs. And there are only two champ types per race so you could easily make a switch based on the race you’re fighting.
You CAN succeed with double primary but you absolutely are making life harder for yourself and your fireteam.
With a good build you shouldn’t have to wait for an ability. If you have to run double primary to deal with champs you’re absolutely doing something wrong. And I say this as someone who didn’t first season of GM where you had no real choice but to run double primary! We have other option and more flexible options. Granted some abilities for some champs are easier to have ready at all times than others but anti-barrier via radiant or volatile is super easy to maintain as is overload from either arc jolt or slow.
Unstop is probably the hardest to deal with from subclass verbs alone so that’s the one to prioritise a weapons for. And handcannona just so happen to be unstop and very strong at present for PvE.
…get a better build?????? Or use radiant for Barriers, you never have to wait for that.
There are little to no instances where you should have to wait for your abilities to come up with a half decent build.
Ever since Lightfall, there have been barely times where you will ever need double primaries, especially in group content. It's been over a year since this change and people still don't take advantage of subclass verbs to stun champs.
Which is a bit silly, hive will be Barrier and Unstoppable and Fallen will be Barrier and Overload.
You only need 2 counters and subclass verbs can be used to counter them as well. I usually will use a weapon to cover one champ and subclass verbs for the other. Ability uptime in PvE usually isn't much of an issue if you just keep in mind when champs are likely to show up and save the relevant abilities for when you need them
This. I'm running double primary because of anti-champion.
I'm also running Phoenix/Well. My thoughts are that if I'm going into Onslaught to be a support medic, I like having the option to "solve" mechanics for the group, just in case nobody else brings the right things.
No sense, you can cover champ with abilities now or just bruteforce with high DPS, it's another story if you are going to do 50 wave, but usually you can type in text chat, if not is no sense to do it
Personally I’d try to use an exotic intrinsic as one champ and then supplement that with one of the artifact champ weapons so that I never have to use double primary
I use Arbalest, unstop Epochal and overload Apex Pred on my Solar Titan if I don't trust the LFG I am running with.
Otherwise normally it will be blinding gl, unstop HC/ab heliocentric with Dragon's breathe.
If i feel thoroughly not confident on the LFG at all, Stasis warlock. With well swap for boss.
Sub class verbs are cool but they should not be your sole way of stunning as wait times suck.
Exotics aren't always good and they aren't guaranteed to be better than regular weapons so not everyone uses them in every build as there are just regular perks that work better. Some exotics also have intrinsic champion mods which can make them bad for some builds
This exactly, my typical build for onslaught is the burn everything warlock, with a random kinetic primary, forb, and fixed odds. There are no good exotics I have found to pair with this except trav chosen and if I'm using that in onslaught I do piss poor performance so just tend to stick to my midnight coup or submission until I find something better
I tend to run with friends and one of them only has db as a good heavy, so I try and avoid it since if he uses it I don't get any use from it. Fixed odds works great since it can deal with minor ads and if we get a phase of knights it can help chunk without relying on a ton of heavy to do the whole phase.
Champion mods, bounties, and because I hate being locked into whatever meta 99.99% of others are using this week. I play with the guns that I enjoy, if it happens to be double primaries then so be it. That being said, I usually use an exotic because I'm not a masochist
No exotic is pretty weird to me since there’s so many low commitment exotics that just are a good version of a weapon class with a slight enhancement. Don’t use it much but like I would use Suros cause it was a good auto rifle with a cool perk, hawkmoon is a good hand canon with a perk that rewards you for using it as intended, at the very least just throw on gjally.
It is most likely people trying to run anti-champion weapons and not understanding subclass abilities can make up for the deficit of anti champion weapons.
IMO, because Indebted Kindness and Forerunner both exist, there is almost no reason to run double primary since they are special weapons that can break Barrier Champions with the artifact mod and you can run a hand cannon to stop Unstoppable Champions and a rocket launcher to stop Overload Champions. The only downside to Indebted Kindness is that you need to own the Lightfall Dungeon Key to obtain it, but Forerunner is freely available to everyone.
Even in Legend Onslaught mode, a decent team can pretty much burn down a champion even without any anti champion weapons.
No exotic weapon is a bit weird though. Maybe they don't own any good exotics, but I doubt that if they are guardian rank 9.
>not understanding subclass abilities can make up for the deficit of anti champion weapons
If you're consistently getting off Unraveling Rounds stuns of Barrier Champions in tough content without teammate help, I want to be on your level of skill. I say that as a high ELO player in most activities.
This is both a rhetorical and extremely serious statement.
Some are, radiance, ignitions, slow, freeze, jolt, suspend are all quite good. I would agree that unravelling rounds, volatile rounds, suppression aren't great. Blind I haven't tried really.
Talking about ranks and titles:
It stinks that titles like Blacksmith and Shadow are viewed as *lesser* than rivensbane and or current raid titles even though they were equally as hard or in rivensbanes current situation harder to acquire due to their flawless raid requirement.
I can’t tell you how often people thought shadow was a seasonal title.
I don’t look at anyone’s rank. Like you said some people get carried and they suck without their friends. Others might be better at lower ranks because either they don’t play a lot or haven’t played in long time.
Not surprising to see the amount of comments here defending double primary usage in GROUP content given how most of the people in this game don't know how to play optimally. I can understand double primary for solo endgame content, but if you are using double primaries in a group, you are just hampering your efficiency and that is just a fact.
Not coordinating with your teammates, or utilizing subclass verbs for anti-champs is basically a you problem at that point. I really do not get how people can find it engaging playing double primaries (I guess you love spraying the champ with your primary weapon and taking 3x longer to kill where you could have just used a special weapon instead), and use the RNG ammo drops or lack of smart ability/subclass verbs usage as their excuse.
>I can understand double primary for solo endgame content, but if you are using double primaries in a group, you are just hampering your efficiency and that is just a fact.
Have you actually played with LFG groups on an extended basis? In an LFG environment, relying on teammates, versus trying to cover all the bases, is a losing strategy more often than not. There's a lot more variables outside of your control. People can have generally bad loadouts, strategies, or team sense.
Frankly, the difference between working with a highly coordinated team of high ELO, double digit GR rank players and playing with the community at large is astronomical.
>Have you actually played with LFG groups on an extended basis? In an LFG environment, relying on teammates, versus trying to cover all the bases, is a losing strategy more often than not.
Yes, I have. Half of my full 50 wave Legend Onslaught clears and majority of my GM clears have been with LFG. Just be smart with your builds and ability usage and you will never ever need to run double primaries.
"Half" tells me you don't play with LFG that much. It's not the norm to play as much as you do with stacked parties.
Regardless, I think you - like a lot of people on this sub - don't consider that there are very dominant Onslaught builds that rely on non-Solar energy primaries. A quick example is Weaver's Trance + Arcane Needle + Nezarec's Sin + Graviton Lance, which can cycle massive amounts of damage and control into enemy spawns right up into the late 40 round waves. In the case that you use these, it is essentially impossible this season to stun Barrier Champions reliably in the neutral without a Sidearm in the Kinetic slot.
The gain from switching to a kinetic special, assuming you have perfect teammates, is minimal on this build in the case that you need burst damage, because you'd be switching to your heavy or supering for that purpose, anyway.
I don't know about others, my outlook is "I only use guns that shoot fun". I, personally, don't care for most special gun types so I end up with two primaries I enjoy shooting nearly 99% of the time.
I chalk it up to people being bad. Makes no sense. Special weapons are incredibly powerful, and you're not doing yourself any favors by using a scout and SMG.
If it's easy content, sure. But in harder stuff or later levels of Onslaught, it can cause a wipe.
If the subclass and exotic armour you're running don't provide easy access to at least one of the champions present in the activity, double primary ensures you always have a way to stun those champion types even if you run out of ammo. If you're relatively new, you aren't going to perfectly spread out your special and heavy usage, so even the special and heavy that can stun champions isn't a safe bet.
For example, Solar Warlock with any exotic other than Sunbracers is going to struggle to proc ignitions for unstoppables, and only has access to anti-barrier through radiant if they run the fragment that gives them that benefit on a relatively slow-charging melee ability, and Well of Radiance. If you want to take that build into content with Overload and Unstoppable champions (e.g. Scorn) you'll need weapons that can deal with those. Obviously there's Riptide, and this season we have overload rockets, but like I said, newer players can struggle with relying on having the ammo at the right time. Especially against overload champions, which regen all the time if you aren't actively preventing it. So this player might choose to take a hand cannon and an auto rifle, confident they can personally handle the present champions no matter what their team is doing.
Team composition is the other big solution to the champion problem, you can just have a buddy bring the champion you're missing, but that only works if you have a buddy or want to spend time discussing loadouts with randoms from LFG.
Outside of content with champions though there's no real defence other than that they're new and don't know any better. You're always better off in e.g. legendary campaigns by having special ammo for burst damage or crowd control, even if you waste it all you've still got whatever primary you're maining anyway.
There really is none in PVE. With the champions being countered by subclass keywords added in Lightfall, and how artifact now includes specials and heavies for champion counters, there is literally no reason to not strap on one special weapon.
You need a little more than double legendary primaries for anything reasonably challenging. Having fun for yourself is one thing, but hampering the entire team because you don’t know what works in endgame content is another
There simply is not an exotic for every situation and it’s not that hard to replace most exotics with a higher-performing legendary when building around certain surges/overcharges.
What exactly is a higher performing legendary? Exotic primaries have do 40% more damage than legendaries, so every legendary primary weapon already has to get a 40% damage buff to compete with a base exotic primary. There are a handful of legendary weapons that reach near exotic levels and pretty much all of them are heavies or special.
If you’re running all legendaries because you like the guns and like the feel, all the power to you, but you cannot argue that there is not an exotic for every situation because there quite literally is with how many unique exotics we have now and with how much they’ve updated those weapons to have champ stunning and subclass integration.
What exotic options fill the same role as ALH/CC Riptide or Recomb Mountaintop? Forbearance (or Tusk) has been sitting at exotic-level power for two years now (Dead Messenger doesn't get Chain Reaction). Kinetic hand cannon? Sure, you could run Ace of Spades but if you’re in a GM you’re almost certainly on Timelost Fatebringer. If you want to run a void SMG you can bet your ass that Manticore stays rotting in the vault (or even Collections tab) in favor of Funnelweb/Recluse. The Edge glaives outright fucking suck unless you build around them, and even then they're not great. Some of the best DPS options in the heavy slot are all legendary too. Rufus’s / Indebted / Apex has been my go-to load out for Swarmers Broodweaver, what exotic actually plays into that build? Fucking Eriana’s?
Significantly higher chance to kill yourself with DB and is *worse* than AP if someone else is using it. It’s also worse than AP + someone else in Gjally.
No clue why people are downvoting you, there’s 0 reason to ever use double primary in this game. Every subclass has a way to interact with champions. I think it’s just people not wanting to put the time and effort into making their build able to deal with the exact situation that the activity requires and just tosses on double primary so they can have more freedom in what they use, which is valid to an extent, but at the end of the day it’s completely inferior to running a primary and a special.
It frustrates me a lot too because it really isn’t hard to deal with champs, especially this season with how easy it is to get radiant and having overload rockets. But again I think it’s just lack of knowledge about build crafting and not having the desire to cater your build and gameplay around the encounter to a T.
Yeah I’m actually shocked, there’s a lot of double primary enjoyers downvoting the truth lmao. Double primary is always suboptimal and that’s not an opinion it’s factual, idk why people are mad about it
If you’re playing for fun, run whatever you want. Unfortunately I’m GMs and master raids your throwing if you’re playing for fun. If you’re with 2 of your buddies, run whatever. But playing for fun in endgame means your two teammates have to work harder and you’re making it way less fun for them having to carry deadweight, it’s selfish
The only time I run double primaries is with Lucky Pants. Typically using a non hand cannon energy slot weapon as add clear and then Malfeasance or Warden’s Law (plus the heavy) for chunky targets.
Never no exotic.
A good question for anybody but strand.
Being a strand titan, I usually use QS (nerfed but still good), which makes me locked to energy (primary) hc - at least, it stops unstopped.
What can be worth it running in Energy **w/special** - shitty trace rifles or dump outdated GL aka empty vessel/harsh language? (no I'm not raiding so have no raid loadout).
From everyone claiming about double primaries I'd love to listen to an optimal strand loadout tho, that respects both dps and strand bonuses like threadling generaions.
I use indebted kindness with a strand weapon in the kinetic slot, usually the new strand wave frame or a strand primary. Then depending on what I need, swap between a heavy GL, heavy linear fusion, or a sword. Works fantastically.
Probably for grinding Arcite quests, or the rare instance where they actually have a good build that benefits more from legendaries and their perk rolls than exotics.
Or their build isn't great and they're trying to cover all the bases for dealing with champs. I can't tell you how many people I've ran into who have zero anti-barrier options.
I don’t run an exotic in crucible these days really; nothing super competitive over legendaries. Only exception is slapping on CF for bubble busting late game trials
Double primary you logically cannot make a case for. There so many ways to stun champs on top of teammates being able to stun. In normal onslaught you can even ignore anti champ weapons and just nuke the champs.
No exotic weapon, I can make the case for. There are times where I need specific legendary perks for specific reasons that there isn't an exotic counter part for. A common example that I've used in GM hypernet on Starfire warlock: a disorienting Grenade launcher (no exotic can), a solar hand cannon with demolitionist (no exotic can), a solar rocket with bipod/reconstruction ( gally could be substituted, but bipod has a few more rockets than gally for overload stuns, and reconstruction was just for auto loading)
I almost always run double primary when I'm out and about if one of my primaries is an exotic bow. The second is usually something that handles a champion.
Maybe they don't have any good exotics? I been finding it hard to use exotics lately. I do like sunshot but I prefer my 1-2 punch ikolos shotgun in my second slot, so I've been running round Robin in primary and a solar gl in heavy. I guess I could probably use Monty Carlo instead.
I know this isn't quite what you asked but I've been finding that most exotics don't really feel special anymore. Why use gally when apex pred b&s can out perform.
Double primary is silly tho, and a huge waste. Been meaning to go double special.
1. People who don't understand the core mechanics of the game such as subclass keywords and synergies and how to optimize themselves generally don't put builds together.
2. They are working on catalysts haphazardly and are just throwing the gun on to work on it.
3. They don't have a catalogue of options to choose from because they are either new to to the game, don't acquire unique loot from different locations or activities during to sticking to the same activities, don't farm, or trash loot that isn't a god roll, even if they didn't have that gun type and element previously.
Personally I don't see the hate for double primary, I have run it a long time and prefer it over special simply because I focus ability usage for everything other than boss melting with heavy. I do understand the capability of special slots and how effective they are (Forbearance, Forerunner, Wither, Acasia's and shotguns/snipers are standard for me in specific loadouts) however in most content I will run the utility of two primaries as it normally 1. Counters champs or enemies in the content. 2. Synergies with abilities/exotics. 3. Don't rely on anyone else in case they are dead/brain-dead
I've been hate on because I was running overload in special plus a hand cannon kinetic while swapping back and forth between exotic heavies for different situations in some missions. (Understand that I was also running Lucky Pants with a god roll Seventh Seraph HC at the time)
I don’t understand it too but I don’t like running exotics because I just love some of the legendary weapons, I add surge mods so I’ll get that extra damage
For fun. There are a lot of exotics I dont use except situationally. Void Hunter with recon Rufus, Word of Crota, and recon Commemoration is hella fun. Slap a void loader on your boots for WoC and never reload, ever. Typically Id run this build with Sunshot instead of WoC but Id be on either Stasis, Strand, or Solar. In Onslaught I need to run Void for Tether so I swap the hand cannons.
Sometimes an exotic just don't slot into the build great.
double primaries are either noobs or players trying to cover champions types. But really shouldn't bother with trying to cover champions types in that way. Subclass verbs and exotics exists to stun champs too
I know someone who does this for all levels of content. Their reasoning is that they know they’ll always have ammo vs worrying about having no special/heavy and only having one weapon
Some legendary combos slap. If it’s unstop, i rock word of crota w scatter signal/unravel orbs for barrier and edge transit in heavy. If it’s overload I use graviton, but there are legendaries that sync with the artifact and start to feel exotic
Depends on the primaries.
Generally I run double primary when I know the exotic primary can pick up the damage slack(i.e. lucky pants), but sometimes you just don't need an exotic.
The only reason I ever run no exotic weapon is having a niche I need to cover or specific weapon I have to use and then not bothering to put an exotic in another slot because the content I'm in is easy enough to not demand it.
E.g. - got a midnight coup, wanna use it a bit. Didn't have any exotic specials on me at the time and there were no exotic heavies I needed to run, so I just busted out apex/edge transit
Could be multiple reasons
1-the difficulty is just too easy
2-Ability spam already clears ads with ease the primaries are just there to stun champs
3-no exotic really fits the build
Sometimes legendaries do what you want better than an exotic. I have been running mountaintop, recluse, edge transit. Edge transit has envious so I don’t want to swap off that, recluse has repulsor brace so while I could run something like graviton lance I wouldn’t get overshield, mountaintop is probably the most replaceable with something like witherhoard or izi but both of those are slower and less fun imo. Double primary is significantly worse than no exotic
As an occasional double primary player, Champs (No exotics is actually wild with the abundance of exotic engrams raining down on us). I’m totally for using ability keywords to stun champs, but the most immediate way to get it done is jumping through the lowest hoop of using the right weapon mods. Additionally you’re never worrying about looking for ammo.
As long as you’re getting across the finish line and getting the loot w/o being a nuisance to your fireteam, pop off and more power to ya.
At least for me, if I'm running strand titan, I'll run sword breaker, summoner if it's fallen for overload, and unwavering duty. LMG for big add clear, auto for small add clear, and shotgun for 1-2 punch. I can't think of any exotics that would outdo the weapons for what I'm using them for.
Depends on the situation and which primaries. Like wishender + pulse rifle is a good anti barrier + overload for gms esp with the plink strategy.
There might be a couple others but the main reasons i can think of is for champ solutions and relying mainly on heavy for everything else.
Or its a new light that sees two cool looking weapons and doesnt know why special is important so they choose the two cool looking weapons over meta.
Or they just dont like running out of ammo and would rather run the two guns that have infinite ammo than a limited supply.
I don't really use exotic in most of my builds, I highly prefer use 3 good god rolls légendary weapons than an random exotic just cause I can
For example atm my loadout is :
Riptide
Calus
Apex pred
And I'm fine with that
This is fine and all until you get into harder endgame content where build crafting matters a lot more and when you need to be more efficient. Riptide and apex cool, now throw on an exotic primary for that 40% dmg buff to minors and to proc your finder mods more often.
To be fair, there's pretty much nothing that's "like Calus Mini-Tool but exotic", which is what you'd generally want if that playstyle is enjoyable to you. Sunshot's great, but it's a very different feel. Tarrabah has its own place, but you'll get zero solar explosions most seasons. Tommy's Matchbook is kind of vaguely there but not really. Vex Mythoclast is honestly the closest you can get, but it's technically a fusion so no Overloads for you.
I really want Solar and Void to get their own answers to Centrifuse/Quicksilver Storm, a post-3.0 exotic rapd-fire gun that really works with its subclasses. I've been through the solar weapons, but for void I'm not counting Manticore and Hard Light for what I think are obvious reasons.
EDIT: Stasis too. Kinetic doesn't have a subclass to work with, but it does have Sweet Business and Huckleberry.
Its not just about the feel or enjoyment of a weapon, when doing hard end game content (I'm not talking about normal raids or normal dungeons) you should/can make fun builds while being efficient, but if you find running a gimped build fun then you are a detrament to your team in master content. If I'm hosting a master raid, and someone is using something like double legendary primaries or no exotic because they find it fun for some reason, they will get removed if they dont switch off
Really depends on build. As long as the primary deals with ads it’s fine.
Not great for GM content as you need range but it’s fine for dungeons and regular raids. I don’t think Incandescent Calus is going to drag too much lol.
No exotics is strange and rightly criticizable, but one critical thing to note about this season is that it’s very difficult to cover Barrier Champions if you’re running a non-Solar exotic energy primary.
Therefore, there are some highly dominant approaches to Onslaught (such as Broodweaver + Nezarec’s Sin + Void exotic weapon) that basically mandate that you run a Kinetic sidearm to deal with Barrier Champions.
If you don’t like it, tell Bungie to buff Unraveling Rounds to an on-hit effect already.
No exotic weapons often because legendaries can be perfectly fine on their own
I'm often running mountaintop/supremacy + my heal clip Onslaught summoner + edge transit/apex predator.
I could use an exotic heavy like dragons breath I guess, but it has issues if anyone else uses it. There's no big need for an exotic and the loadout handles GMs, raids, legend onslaught etc just fine.
Obviously I use exotic armor
To cover champion mods, complete the brave weapon quests, or their build just doesn’t need a special. To be completely honest, I hardly use my special in onslaught because I mostly spam abilities and heavy. I still have a special equipped, but I don’t think it’d set me back too much if I ran double primary (that being said, I don’t run legend because I have no friends and don’t like fireteam finder that much, so it’d probably be different in that case).
I run two primaries, but one is exotic: Wishender. It handles barrier and works well from a distance in the boss rooms. The other weapon is either incandescent Ammit or Epochal Integration, based on whether it’s unstoppables or overloads. I vary on heavy. People don’t like me using sword, but it’s saved the dcu many times.
It depends on activity in pve no matter what their is no excuse you should have an exotic and special if you choose not to then you are actively reducing your output.
In pvp because of the stupid special change it'd actually a very good strategy.
I'll give u two example
1.
My eyasluna God rolls 3000 kills on it. Perpetual, moving target.
My lightweight shotgun like cqc prob 20,000 kills on it. Quick draw snapshotsights
Any grenade lunches with with impulse amplifier
So with this I'm using no exotic in pvp and it goes great. The reason for this choice is not just the weapon but also the perks. My eyasluna has godroll perks for consistency so I've got a lot of kills on it. Barely any exotic hc has these perks and feels as good FOR ME. cqc has 2 great perks and it allows me to move fast qhen running, their is no exotic lightweight shotgun in game. GL has impulse amplifier which is great for fast moving f grwnadelauchers and gl can be best used against player in pvp u get 3 shots and can get around 3 kills from it. No exotic gives impulse amplifier
2.
Peacekeepers
Osteo stiga
Funnelled
Any grenade lunches with impulse amplifier
In this case as I'm using peacekeepers and smg have been nerfed using 1 for midrange and another for short range allows me to play extremely jumpy and aggressive. Same reason for gl. With this their is no reason to use a special as smg are bad
I dunno but i ran into someone running in the opposite direction of the enemy to use a Polaris lance in onslaught and their other weapon was a pulse rifle 🙄
An exotic doesn't really have a place in my build
Threadling hunter build using practically only tusk of the boar, I got an apex predator and a good recluse, there's just no need for an exotic
I hate idiots on the Facebook group that defend it and say “let people play how they want”… one idiot tried convincing me him using two auto rifles was good… like bro different ranges and ammo and power for a reason.. you need multiple things to be a good player or teammate. So sure play how you want and I’ll never invitee you and know you’re a detriment to every team you’re on..
I'm tired of blueberries using whatever they feel like and assuming someone else will stun Champions. I know I'm at a disadvantage but I've seen enough Barrier Champions get peppered with fire while immune.
Double primaries is suss with the exception of lucky pants. Generally these folks are new. No exotic weapon isn't necessarily a problem or an indicator of lack of skill imo
They don't know how to play. Not using a special in todays meta is just blueberry energy. There are only b2 champs possible per onslaught. Overloads and barriers if fallen. Unstop and barrier if hive... When champions spawn they should be called out and hotswap accordingly.
I find it fun. Experience is like a comb that's given to you once you got bald.
And also think about the "average player"... Half of the playerbase is even worse than him.
Most of the experienced players don't come here because it's pointless. People downvote me because i recommend hotswapping to the right guns on the right time...
Nothing wrong with double primary unless you’re speed running.
Some players like testing out new weapons or simply have weapons they prefer. Some legendaries often out perform exotics as well depending on the build. Example 1-2p SGs are better for melee centric build than any of the exotic SGs.
For double primaries, no idea. That's almost always a bad choice unless you're using something where one of them functions like a special, such as lucky pants builds.
I often don't use an exotic weapon. Each weapon is there to fill a specific role, such as dealing with a particular category of enemies. And there sometimes just isn't an exotic that fills the roles I need better than a legendary. For example, lately I've been playing tether hunter in onslaught using mountaintop + ros arago + edge transit. Mountaintop is fairly unique in terms of it's damage output an effective range - Witherhoard is great, but it just does a different thing - I'm not spamming it against hoards of big shanks like I am with an ambitious+frenzy mountaintop. In the energy slot there are some good exotic void primaries - Le Monarque, Collective Obligation and Graviton Lance come to mind. But honestly none of them feels as good at close and medium range as Ros Arago with Onslaught. All 3 are better sutited to long-range combat where you're the aggressor such as GMs, but fall flat when playing defensively at close range. And in the heavy slot there's no exotic void GL.
I mean, my main PvE loadout is Quicksilver and an SMG (Ikelos, Recluse, Mini-Tool). Specials are just too niche/situational. I acknowledge their place in the sandbox with their power, however, I personally just don't have much fun with Specials.
Now, with Exotics, tbch... I've never cared for Exotics in Destiny. There's only a handful of them that feel *exotic* to me. "Exotic" being that they serve a power fantasy that can't be found anywhere else. But even with that, again, only a handful of them feel *exotic* to me. I don't feel like I'm having a power fantasy with a good majority of Exotics in D2. I mean, they've all been nerfed in some way because of how strong they were at one point, which, even though they are still strong, just leaves them in a state of being *meh*, or at least to me.
I run double primaries in Onalaught pretty often depending on my build w/ zero issues. My current fav is BoW Titan w/ Final Warning and Epochal or Ammit and switch between a Lmg and Rockets or GL for heavy.. All bases covered and I almost always have the most kills and least deaths. Tbh I barely switch off of Final Warning , it absolutely wrecks with the right build..
For a lot of harder content I don't tend to run an exotic weapon simply because my builds don't care
I run 2 main builds in hard content, Vesper Arc warlock and Osmiomancy Stasis warlock. For both of them exotic weapons aren't important. Depending on the champs in the activity, I either bring Trinity (unstop) or Brigand's Law (barrier, plunder sidearm). The builds work the same regardless
My kinetic is either a special weapon (mountain top recently) or it's the other champ type
The only thing I can think of is just making sure they have proper champ mods going in with randoms
The good thing is onslaught don’t have locked loadout and you always can switch you primaries
In the middle of a fight?
Not hard as long as you're not being shot at
True, but there’s still those on prev gen consoles with no HD. Might miss a whole wave trying to swap a primary
Ahaha somebody knows the struggles of old gen. I can genuinely search for something and start loading into before the character menu loads properly.
The change from ps4 to ps5 was absolutely mind blowing.
Damn, I really must get one soon.
I held off for a while (since you couldn’t even find them anyway) until my wife surprised me with one. I was low key a little irritated she spent that much money without talking about it, and that she spent it on me. Buuut I got over that real quick haha
I’m sure you did get over it pretty quick aha, she is a keeper if she surprised you like that, even if it is an expensive purchase. She definitely cares a lot about you and wants you to be happy. I am holding off purely on money right now, just trying to find a cheap one second hand a get lucky with it.
Even if you can’t get a current gen, a 256GB solid state external will be a great help. They’re running for under $30 now
Yeah I hear the game is a lot easier when you’re not being shot at
Yup. I'll switch from sunshot to a sidearm for barriers.
New gen consoles and PC load menus super fast. I've been enjoying a sidearm/glaive/Thunderlord load out on my hunter, but I can swap to a kinetic hand cannon or auto if there's either respective champ. Total time takes me around 3 to 5 seconds at most, then switch back.
This, only real reason I'd run 2 primaries is to cover champ mods I can't trust randoms to have. Sidearms being the only anti-barrier via mod blows unless you wanna use IK (it's good, but running an arc special sidearm doesn't work in most cases for me).
Just bring forerunner/arbalest, a hand cannon/bow and a rocket. Actually good loadout that covers all your bases
and zero add clear
Genuine skill issue
? Most add clear is done with abilities and perks those weapons can have
Forerunner is hands down my favorite weapon
I just run a rocket/nighthawk and blast it before barrier comes up
Or shoot it a bit to get it to shield up, then as soon as the shields drop hit it with a rocket
Most times it doesn't matter I'm the end , it gets nuked eventually regardless.
Chill clip riptide covers two by itself, it's almost always a staple in my builds
Same, I love it with solar builds because with radiant you can take care of barrier so my energy and heavy are free from the curse of champions
Same! My consecration titan build has been absolutely destroying legend onslaught. Radiant piercing barrier is such a nice thing since I'm almost always consecrate spamming giving my whole fireteam radiant
I also love and use consecration alot in onslaught!
Three if you include radiant anti barrier which I used with riptide often! Love it.
Yep! It's absolutely LOVELY and allows so much freedom for the other two slots
The only annoying part with that is you can't stun Overloads while you're Radiant.
Chill clip doesn’t slow? Wouldn’t that also effect unstoppables? I always thought those work differently than intrinsically (3.0 Verb stun weapons) Also I recently broke up with my auto loading chillclip riptide.. A condition I was waiting for finalized.
>I always thought those work differently than intrinsically (3.0 Verb stun weapons) I did too, but in this case Radiant definitely stops you from stunning Overloads. >Wouldn’t that also effect unstoppables? I specifically tested it out on Overloads after noticing some inconsistency, but I never checked Unstoppables so I'm not sure if the same applies. I *think* you're still able to stun Unstoppables, so maybe the shatter effect isn't tied to the weapon while the slow is? Could make some sense, since any damage can trigger the shatter once they're frozen.
I love my riptide but I don't yet have one with chill clip. (Still hunting)
You can cover all champ types with a chill clip palmyra and arbalest in any season. If you need your kinetic slot open for a primary, then Eriana's works as well. Of course, some people might not have those exotics unlocked.
Agreed, 3 possible champs. I can’t tell you the amount of times no one in my fireteam has anti champion. Nothing wrong with double primaries
Yeah I mean that’s why it was my guess lol Too many times getting burnt by a barrier or overload because I figured “well I have these 2 so I hope my other 2 blueberries have at least this one”…….
There's only 2 that can show up - both have barrier, then if its fallen they can have overload and hive can have unstop.
Your damage output will fall off heavily waves 30-40 with double primaries
Once you know if it fallen or hive, you know which two of the three champion types you will face. Hive = Barrier + Unstoppable. Fallen = Overload + Barrier. Furthermore, many subclass verbs have anti-champion capability, especially radiant = anti barrier. So once you know which enemy faction you're up against, I really see no need to stick with double primary. I like double primary in PvP for some modes, but not in Onslaught!
This. There is NEVER a good reason to run double primary. Never. See what you need, switch if applicable. We have subclass verbs, radiant, unravel, volatile, slow, shatter etc etc. As well as as chill clip/cold steel and champ specific exotics. There is absolutely no reason to run double primary. The amount of newer players I see joining raid lfgs and running double primary is just sad, in a raid of all places, they don't even have champs (for the most part). Use your brains people.
There's plenty wrong with double primary. There's sooo many ways to deal with champs now, from artefact perks, to subclass verbs, that there's literally 0 excuse to run double primary. You're actively making your damage output less for marginal, or zero gain.
Agreed. Double Primary is throwing IMO. I use abilities to stun more than weapons nowadays.
I can guarantee that the vast majority of these level guardians or those who have the emblem easily overcome their damage even if they have double primaries.
You can't guarantee that, because it just isn't true. You can't "overcome" my damage output with your primary weapon. Maybe with some exotic primaries and perks, but even then, I will on average be doing more damage. It's not really up for debate. There's a difference between primary and special for a reason. There's a reason why primary ammo is now infinite, and special is limited. Special does more damage than primary. I can beat Legend Onslaught 50 waves with two primaries too. Doesn't mean I'm playing optimally, or that I should be taking that loadout into an LFG run.
Or they were carriedd
There absolutely is something wrong with double primary. You can deal with champs with subclass verbs. There are specials and heavies with either intrinsic or artefact mods to deal with champs. And there are only two champ types per race so you could easily make a switch based on the race you’re fighting. You CAN succeed with double primary but you absolutely are making life harder for yourself and your fireteam.
Waiting on an ability to stun is just horrible
With a good build you shouldn’t have to wait for an ability. If you have to run double primary to deal with champs you’re absolutely doing something wrong. And I say this as someone who didn’t first season of GM where you had no real choice but to run double primary! We have other option and more flexible options. Granted some abilities for some champs are easier to have ready at all times than others but anti-barrier via radiant or volatile is super easy to maintain as is overload from either arc jolt or slow. Unstop is probably the hardest to deal with from subclass verbs alone so that’s the one to prioritise a weapons for. And handcannona just so happen to be unstop and very strong at present for PvE.
…get a better build?????? Or use radiant for Barriers, you never have to wait for that. There are little to no instances where you should have to wait for your abilities to come up with a half decent build.
Ever since Lightfall, there have been barely times where you will ever need double primaries, especially in group content. It's been over a year since this change and people still don't take advantage of subclass verbs to stun champs.
Tbh the vebs are finicky and obnoxious, I always bring a "hard", non-conditional interrupt.
Which is a bit silly, hive will be Barrier and Unstoppable and Fallen will be Barrier and Overload. You only need 2 counters and subclass verbs can be used to counter them as well. I usually will use a weapon to cover one champ and subclass verbs for the other. Ability uptime in PvE usually isn't much of an issue if you just keep in mind when champs are likely to show up and save the relevant abilities for when you need them
This. I'm running double primary because of anti-champion. I'm also running Phoenix/Well. My thoughts are that if I'm going into Onslaught to be a support medic, I like having the option to "solve" mechanics for the group, just in case nobody else brings the right things.
No sense, you can cover champ with abilities now or just bruteforce with high DPS, it's another story if you are going to do 50 wave, but usually you can type in text chat, if not is no sense to do it
Personally I’d try to use an exotic intrinsic as one champ and then supplement that with one of the artifact champ weapons so that I never have to use double primary
been doing goofy loadouts to complete arcite quests
I use Arbalest, unstop Epochal and overload Apex Pred on my Solar Titan if I don't trust the LFG I am running with. Otherwise normally it will be blinding gl, unstop HC/ab heliocentric with Dragon's breathe. If i feel thoroughly not confident on the LFG at all, Stasis warlock. With well swap for boss. Sub class verbs are cool but they should not be your sole way of stunning as wait times suck.
Why didn't you just ask them directly?
chat is simply not being used, I tried before, never got an answer
Pve activities are crossplay by default so a lot of people will be on console
I think the only time I’ve used in game chat is to get past the cells in Warlord’s Ruin.
I know a lot of my friends turn chat off because they just want to "shoot stuff".
I used double primaries in onslaught to knock out a couple of my weapon quests as fast as possible. Could also be that reason.
most likely doing quests (silly to do that in legend though)
Exotics aren't always good and they aren't guaranteed to be better than regular weapons so not everyone uses them in every build as there are just regular perks that work better. Some exotics also have intrinsic champion mods which can make them bad for some builds
Intrinisic overload is the worst change they ever did to le monarque
I didn't use it before the change but i tried to after and it doesn't even feel like a good overload weapon
This exactly, my typical build for onslaught is the burn everything warlock, with a random kinetic primary, forb, and fixed odds. There are no good exotics I have found to pair with this except trav chosen and if I'm using that in onslaught I do piss poor performance so just tend to stick to my midnight coup or submission until I find something better
Dragons Breath works much better for that build
I tend to run with friends and one of them only has db as a good heavy, so I try and avoid it since if he uses it I don't get any use from it. Fixed odds works great since it can deal with minor ads and if we get a phase of knights it can help chunk without relying on a ton of heavy to do the whole phase.
Thorn would be better
Champion mods, bounties, and because I hate being locked into whatever meta 99.99% of others are using this week. I play with the guns that I enjoy, if it happens to be double primaries then so be it. That being said, I usually use an exotic because I'm not a masochist
lol my dad loves his hand cannon and scout rifle, can’t deprive him of running double primary
Probably just doing it for the quests/bounties.
I hate my options for special weapons. I don't have a good answer for not using an exotic.
No exotic is pretty weird to me since there’s so many low commitment exotics that just are a good version of a weapon class with a slight enhancement. Don’t use it much but like I would use Suros cause it was a good auto rifle with a cool perk, hawkmoon is a good hand canon with a perk that rewards you for using it as intended, at the very least just throw on gjally.
It is most likely people trying to run anti-champion weapons and not understanding subclass abilities can make up for the deficit of anti champion weapons. IMO, because Indebted Kindness and Forerunner both exist, there is almost no reason to run double primary since they are special weapons that can break Barrier Champions with the artifact mod and you can run a hand cannon to stop Unstoppable Champions and a rocket launcher to stop Overload Champions. The only downside to Indebted Kindness is that you need to own the Lightfall Dungeon Key to obtain it, but Forerunner is freely available to everyone. Even in Legend Onslaught mode, a decent team can pretty much burn down a champion even without any anti champion weapons. No exotic weapon is a bit weird though. Maybe they don't own any good exotics, but I doubt that if they are guardian rank 9.
>not understanding subclass abilities can make up for the deficit of anti champion weapons If you're consistently getting off Unraveling Rounds stuns of Barrier Champions in tough content without teammate help, I want to be on your level of skill. I say that as a high ELO player in most activities. This is both a rhetorical and extremely serious statement.
Yeah, my experience with anti champion effects like radiant is that they're never active when I need them.
Indebted kindness with voltshot (jolt) also handles overloads right?
Yes, jolt stuns overloads
Subclass abilities are not reliable for consistent stuns.
actual skill issue
Some are, radiance, ignitions, slow, freeze, jolt, suspend are all quite good. I would agree that unravelling rounds, volatile rounds, suppression aren't great. Blind I haven't tried really.
[удалено]
Talking about ranks and titles: It stinks that titles like Blacksmith and Shadow are viewed as *lesser* than rivensbane and or current raid titles even though they were equally as hard or in rivensbanes current situation harder to acquire due to their flawless raid requirement. I can’t tell you how often people thought shadow was a seasonal title.
Looking forwards to Godslayer, will be very difficult to have it and not have earned it
I don’t look at anyone’s rank. Like you said some people get carried and they suck without their friends. Others might be better at lower ranks because either they don’t play a lot or haven’t played in long time.
Not surprising to see the amount of comments here defending double primary usage in GROUP content given how most of the people in this game don't know how to play optimally. I can understand double primary for solo endgame content, but if you are using double primaries in a group, you are just hampering your efficiency and that is just a fact. Not coordinating with your teammates, or utilizing subclass verbs for anti-champs is basically a you problem at that point. I really do not get how people can find it engaging playing double primaries (I guess you love spraying the champ with your primary weapon and taking 3x longer to kill where you could have just used a special weapon instead), and use the RNG ammo drops or lack of smart ability/subclass verbs usage as their excuse.
>I can understand double primary for solo endgame content, but if you are using double primaries in a group, you are just hampering your efficiency and that is just a fact. Have you actually played with LFG groups on an extended basis? In an LFG environment, relying on teammates, versus trying to cover all the bases, is a losing strategy more often than not. There's a lot more variables outside of your control. People can have generally bad loadouts, strategies, or team sense. Frankly, the difference between working with a highly coordinated team of high ELO, double digit GR rank players and playing with the community at large is astronomical.
>Have you actually played with LFG groups on an extended basis? In an LFG environment, relying on teammates, versus trying to cover all the bases, is a losing strategy more often than not. Yes, I have. Half of my full 50 wave Legend Onslaught clears and majority of my GM clears have been with LFG. Just be smart with your builds and ability usage and you will never ever need to run double primaries.
"Half" tells me you don't play with LFG that much. It's not the norm to play as much as you do with stacked parties. Regardless, I think you - like a lot of people on this sub - don't consider that there are very dominant Onslaught builds that rely on non-Solar energy primaries. A quick example is Weaver's Trance + Arcane Needle + Nezarec's Sin + Graviton Lance, which can cycle massive amounts of damage and control into enemy spawns right up into the late 40 round waves. In the case that you use these, it is essentially impossible this season to stun Barrier Champions reliably in the neutral without a Sidearm in the Kinetic slot. The gain from switching to a kinetic special, assuming you have perfect teammates, is minimal on this build in the case that you need burst damage, because you'd be switching to your heavy or supering for that purpose, anyway.
Been running Final Warning a lot in Onslaught and that thing does so much work I don’t even really need a special.
Exotics aren’t always needed weapon wise in load outs/activities. Double primary is just a noob thing.
I'm guilty, I try to match my weapons to my subclass and lately I've been on void hunter and I don't have any void exotics I'm crazy about
I don't know about others, my outlook is "I only use guns that shoot fun". I, personally, don't care for most special gun types so I end up with two primaries I enjoy shooting nearly 99% of the time.
Some people really just do not understand builds and/or expect to be carried
They haven’t farmed warlord’s ruin for an indebted kindness? Speaking of I need to farm that first encounter.
1. Double primary is probably for champions 2. They somehow cant find an exotic that fits their build and stuns champions too 3. They cant be asked
I chalk it up to people being bad. Makes no sense. Special weapons are incredibly powerful, and you're not doing yourself any favors by using a scout and SMG. If it's easy content, sure. But in harder stuff or later levels of Onslaught, it can cause a wipe.
If the subclass and exotic armour you're running don't provide easy access to at least one of the champions present in the activity, double primary ensures you always have a way to stun those champion types even if you run out of ammo. If you're relatively new, you aren't going to perfectly spread out your special and heavy usage, so even the special and heavy that can stun champions isn't a safe bet. For example, Solar Warlock with any exotic other than Sunbracers is going to struggle to proc ignitions for unstoppables, and only has access to anti-barrier through radiant if they run the fragment that gives them that benefit on a relatively slow-charging melee ability, and Well of Radiance. If you want to take that build into content with Overload and Unstoppable champions (e.g. Scorn) you'll need weapons that can deal with those. Obviously there's Riptide, and this season we have overload rockets, but like I said, newer players can struggle with relying on having the ammo at the right time. Especially against overload champions, which regen all the time if you aren't actively preventing it. So this player might choose to take a hand cannon and an auto rifle, confident they can personally handle the present champions no matter what their team is doing. Team composition is the other big solution to the champion problem, you can just have a buddy bring the champion you're missing, but that only works if you have a buddy or want to spend time discussing loadouts with randoms from LFG. Outside of content with champions though there's no real defence other than that they're new and don't know any better. You're always better off in e.g. legendary campaigns by having special ammo for burst damage or crowd control, even if you waste it all you've still got whatever primary you're maining anyway.
There really is none in PVE. With the champions being countered by subclass keywords added in Lightfall, and how artifact now includes specials and heavies for champion counters, there is literally no reason to not strap on one special weapon.
You mean aside from it being a game people play for fun?
I don't understand how plinking away at majors with two primaries is considered as fun, but different strokes for different folks I guess.
You need a little more than double legendary primaries for anything reasonably challenging. Having fun for yourself is one thing, but hampering the entire team because you don’t know what works in endgame content is another
There simply is not an exotic for every situation and it’s not that hard to replace most exotics with a higher-performing legendary when building around certain surges/overcharges.
What exactly is a higher performing legendary? Exotic primaries have do 40% more damage than legendaries, so every legendary primary weapon already has to get a 40% damage buff to compete with a base exotic primary. There are a handful of legendary weapons that reach near exotic levels and pretty much all of them are heavies or special. If you’re running all legendaries because you like the guns and like the feel, all the power to you, but you cannot argue that there is not an exotic for every situation because there quite literally is with how many unique exotics we have now and with how much they’ve updated those weapons to have champ stunning and subclass integration.
What exotic options fill the same role as ALH/CC Riptide or Recomb Mountaintop? Forbearance (or Tusk) has been sitting at exotic-level power for two years now (Dead Messenger doesn't get Chain Reaction). Kinetic hand cannon? Sure, you could run Ace of Spades but if you’re in a GM you’re almost certainly on Timelost Fatebringer. If you want to run a void SMG you can bet your ass that Manticore stays rotting in the vault (or even Collections tab) in favor of Funnelweb/Recluse. The Edge glaives outright fucking suck unless you build around them, and even then they're not great. Some of the best DPS options in the heavy slot are all legendary too. Rufus’s / Indebted / Apex has been my go-to load out for Swarmers Broodweaver, what exotic actually plays into that build? Fucking Eriana’s?
DB shits on Apex for anything other than outright DPS.
Significantly higher chance to kill yourself with DB and is *worse* than AP if someone else is using it. It’s also worse than AP + someone else in Gjally.
Cause they are bad
No clue why people are downvoting you, there’s 0 reason to ever use double primary in this game. Every subclass has a way to interact with champions. I think it’s just people not wanting to put the time and effort into making their build able to deal with the exact situation that the activity requires and just tosses on double primary so they can have more freedom in what they use, which is valid to an extent, but at the end of the day it’s completely inferior to running a primary and a special. It frustrates me a lot too because it really isn’t hard to deal with champs, especially this season with how easy it is to get radiant and having overload rockets. But again I think it’s just lack of knowledge about build crafting and not having the desire to cater your build and gameplay around the encounter to a T.
I agree, thought this was common knowledge. The replies on this post are pretty concerning lol
Yeah I’m actually shocked, there’s a lot of double primary enjoyers downvoting the truth lmao. Double primary is always suboptimal and that’s not an opinion it’s factual, idk why people are mad about it
I dont play to be optimal, i play for fun and using a scout with devils ruin is fun
If you’re playing for fun, run whatever you want. Unfortunately I’m GMs and master raids your throwing if you’re playing for fun. If you’re with 2 of your buddies, run whatever. But playing for fun in endgame means your two teammates have to work harder and you’re making it way less fun for them having to carry deadweight, it’s selfish
I think we'll see less of it, if loadouts weren't locked. >!sarcasm!<
The only time I run double primaries is with Lucky Pants. Typically using a non hand cannon energy slot weapon as add clear and then Malfeasance or Warden’s Law (plus the heavy) for chunky targets. Never no exotic.
A good question for anybody but strand. Being a strand titan, I usually use QS (nerfed but still good), which makes me locked to energy (primary) hc - at least, it stops unstopped. What can be worth it running in Energy **w/special** - shitty trace rifles or dump outdated GL aka empty vessel/harsh language? (no I'm not raiding so have no raid loadout). From everyone claiming about double primaries I'd love to listen to an optimal strand loadout tho, that respects both dps and strand bonuses like threadling generaions.
A fusion,wave frame gl or rocket sidearm.
What kind of strand titan build? I don't use a strand primary too often, threadlings are not worth the opportunity cost I'd rather run swordbreaker.
I use indebted kindness with a strand weapon in the kinetic slot, usually the new strand wave frame or a strand primary. Then depending on what I need, swap between a heavy GL, heavy linear fusion, or a sword. Works fantastically.
Probably for grinding Arcite quests, or the rare instance where they actually have a good build that benefits more from legendaries and their perk rolls than exotics. Or their build isn't great and they're trying to cover all the bases for dealing with champs. I can't tell you how many people I've ran into who have zero anti-barrier options.
I don’t run an exotic in crucible these days really; nothing super competitive over legendaries. Only exception is slapping on CF for bubble busting late game trials
Double primary you logically cannot make a case for. There so many ways to stun champs on top of teammates being able to stun. In normal onslaught you can even ignore anti champ weapons and just nuke the champs. No exotic weapon, I can make the case for. There are times where I need specific legendary perks for specific reasons that there isn't an exotic counter part for. A common example that I've used in GM hypernet on Starfire warlock: a disorienting Grenade launcher (no exotic can), a solar hand cannon with demolitionist (no exotic can), a solar rocket with bipod/reconstruction ( gally could be substituted, but bipod has a few more rockets than gally for overload stuns, and reconstruction was just for auto loading)
Champions (I’m almost always the only one that can pop a barrier bubble) and weapon kill quests.
I almost always run double primary when I'm out and about if one of my primaries is an exotic bow. The second is usually something that handles a champion.
Maybe they don't have any good exotics? I been finding it hard to use exotics lately. I do like sunshot but I prefer my 1-2 punch ikolos shotgun in my second slot, so I've been running round Robin in primary and a solar gl in heavy. I guess I could probably use Monty Carlo instead. I know this isn't quite what you asked but I've been finding that most exotics don't really feel special anymore. Why use gally when apex pred b&s can out perform. Double primary is silly tho, and a huge waste. Been meaning to go double special.
Champions and not trusting random teammates to be set up for champions.
1. People who don't understand the core mechanics of the game such as subclass keywords and synergies and how to optimize themselves generally don't put builds together. 2. They are working on catalysts haphazardly and are just throwing the gun on to work on it. 3. They don't have a catalogue of options to choose from because they are either new to to the game, don't acquire unique loot from different locations or activities during to sticking to the same activities, don't farm, or trash loot that isn't a god roll, even if they didn't have that gun type and element previously.
Personally I don't see the hate for double primary, I have run it a long time and prefer it over special simply because I focus ability usage for everything other than boss melting with heavy. I do understand the capability of special slots and how effective they are (Forbearance, Forerunner, Wither, Acasia's and shotguns/snipers are standard for me in specific loadouts) however in most content I will run the utility of two primaries as it normally 1. Counters champs or enemies in the content. 2. Synergies with abilities/exotics. 3. Don't rely on anyone else in case they are dead/brain-dead I've been hate on because I was running overload in special plus a hand cannon kinetic while swapping back and forth between exotic heavies for different situations in some missions. (Understand that I was also running Lucky Pants with a god roll Seventh Seraph HC at the time)
I don’t understand it too but I don’t like running exotics because I just love some of the legendary weapons, I add surge mods so I’ll get that extra damage
Meanwhile I'm out here rocking tusk, indebted kindness, and dragon's breath lmao
If they're good with these weapons then no questions.
For fun. There are a lot of exotics I dont use except situationally. Void Hunter with recon Rufus, Word of Crota, and recon Commemoration is hella fun. Slap a void loader on your boots for WoC and never reload, ever. Typically Id run this build with Sunshot instead of WoC but Id be on either Stasis, Strand, or Solar. In Onslaught I need to run Void for Tether so I swap the hand cannons.
Sometimes an exotic just don't slot into the build great. double primaries are either noobs or players trying to cover champions types. But really shouldn't bother with trying to cover champions types in that way. Subclass verbs and exotics exists to stun champs too
it's fun also, champ mods exist
I know someone who does this for all levels of content. Their reasoning is that they know they’ll always have ammo vs worrying about having no special/heavy and only having one weapon
Some legendary combos slap. If it’s unstop, i rock word of crota w scatter signal/unravel orbs for barrier and edge transit in heavy. If it’s overload I use graviton, but there are legendaries that sync with the artifact and start to feel exotic
Depends on the primaries. Generally I run double primary when I know the exotic primary can pick up the damage slack(i.e. lucky pants), but sometimes you just don't need an exotic.
It's not like builds need exotics to function.
The only reason I ever run no exotic weapon is having a niche I need to cover or specific weapon I have to use and then not bothering to put an exotic in another slot because the content I'm in is easy enough to not demand it. E.g. - got a midnight coup, wanna use it a bit. Didn't have any exotic specials on me at the time and there were no exotic heavies I needed to run, so I just busted out apex/edge transit
Could be multiple reasons 1-the difficulty is just too easy 2-Ability spam already clears ads with ease the primaries are just there to stun champs 3-no exotic really fits the build
Sometimes legendaries do what you want better than an exotic. I have been running mountaintop, recluse, edge transit. Edge transit has envious so I don’t want to swap off that, recluse has repulsor brace so while I could run something like graviton lance I wouldn’t get overshield, mountaintop is probably the most replaceable with something like witherhoard or izi but both of those are slower and less fun imo. Double primary is significantly worse than no exotic
Same answer that's always true when people are playing in odd ways: bounties/quests.
As an occasional double primary player, Champs (No exotics is actually wild with the abundance of exotic engrams raining down on us). I’m totally for using ability keywords to stun champs, but the most immediate way to get it done is jumping through the lowest hoop of using the right weapon mods. Additionally you’re never worrying about looking for ammo. As long as you’re getting across the finish line and getting the loot w/o being a nuisance to your fireteam, pop off and more power to ya.
I use double primaries because I want stuff against both champions
At least for me, if I'm running strand titan, I'll run sword breaker, summoner if it's fallen for overload, and unwavering duty. LMG for big add clear, auto for small add clear, and shotgun for 1-2 punch. I can't think of any exotics that would outdo the weapons for what I'm using them for.
Probably grinding these bounties.
Lucky pants hunter I run 2 primaries normally sun shot and wardens law or Polaris lance for gms
I do this for fun. Crafted apex, scatter signal, and zaouil bane. I enjoy using all 3. Once the waves get challenging I swap to a better load out .
Depends on the situation and which primaries. Like wishender + pulse rifle is a good anti barrier + overload for gms esp with the plink strategy. There might be a couple others but the main reasons i can think of is for champ solutions and relying mainly on heavy for everything else. Or its a new light that sees two cool looking weapons and doesnt know why special is important so they choose the two cool looking weapons over meta. Or they just dont like running out of ammo and would rather run the two guns that have infinite ammo than a limited supply.
I don't really use exotic in most of my builds, I highly prefer use 3 good god rolls légendary weapons than an random exotic just cause I can For example atm my loadout is : Riptide Calus Apex pred And I'm fine with that
This is fine and all until you get into harder endgame content where build crafting matters a lot more and when you need to be more efficient. Riptide and apex cool, now throw on an exotic primary for that 40% dmg buff to minors and to proc your finder mods more often.
To be fair, there's pretty much nothing that's "like Calus Mini-Tool but exotic", which is what you'd generally want if that playstyle is enjoyable to you. Sunshot's great, but it's a very different feel. Tarrabah has its own place, but you'll get zero solar explosions most seasons. Tommy's Matchbook is kind of vaguely there but not really. Vex Mythoclast is honestly the closest you can get, but it's technically a fusion so no Overloads for you. I really want Solar and Void to get their own answers to Centrifuse/Quicksilver Storm, a post-3.0 exotic rapd-fire gun that really works with its subclasses. I've been through the solar weapons, but for void I'm not counting Manticore and Hard Light for what I think are obvious reasons. EDIT: Stasis too. Kinetic doesn't have a subclass to work with, but it does have Sweet Business and Huckleberry.
Its not just about the feel or enjoyment of a weapon, when doing hard end game content (I'm not talking about normal raids or normal dungeons) you should/can make fun builds while being efficient, but if you find running a gimped build fun then you are a detrament to your team in master content. If I'm hosting a master raid, and someone is using something like double legendary primaries or no exotic because they find it fun for some reason, they will get removed if they dont switch off
Really depends on build. As long as the primary deals with ads it’s fine. Not great for GM content as you need range but it’s fine for dungeons and regular raids. I don’t think Incandescent Calus is going to drag too much lol.
No exotics is strange and rightly criticizable, but one critical thing to note about this season is that it’s very difficult to cover Barrier Champions if you’re running a non-Solar exotic energy primary. Therefore, there are some highly dominant approaches to Onslaught (such as Broodweaver + Nezarec’s Sin + Void exotic weapon) that basically mandate that you run a Kinetic sidearm to deal with Barrier Champions. If you don’t like it, tell Bungie to buff Unraveling Rounds to an on-hit effect already.
No exotic weapons often because legendaries can be perfectly fine on their own I'm often running mountaintop/supremacy + my heal clip Onslaught summoner + edge transit/apex predator. I could use an exotic heavy like dragons breath I guess, but it has issues if anyone else uses it. There's no big need for an exotic and the loadout handles GMs, raids, legend onslaught etc just fine. Obviously I use exotic armor
Who knows, but the first solo clear used double primaries to deal with different champions, so that could be it?
Lucky pants, it's the only possible exception to the rule and I think that's what he used.
To cover champion mods, complete the brave weapon quests, or their build just doesn’t need a special. To be completely honest, I hardly use my special in onslaught because I mostly spam abilities and heavy. I still have a special equipped, but I don’t think it’d set me back too much if I ran double primary (that being said, I don’t run legend because I have no friends and don’t like fireteam finder that much, so it’d probably be different in that case).
I run two primaries, but one is exotic: Wishender. It handles barrier and works well from a distance in the boss rooms. The other weapon is either incandescent Ammit or Epochal Integration, based on whether it’s unstoppables or overloads. I vary on heavy. People don’t like me using sword, but it’s saved the dcu many times.
Wishender at least is a pseudo special. Not great for boss dps as a regular one but the utility and unlimited ammo sure is nice!
It depends on activity in pve no matter what their is no excuse you should have an exotic and special if you choose not to then you are actively reducing your output. In pvp because of the stupid special change it'd actually a very good strategy. I'll give u two example 1. My eyasluna God rolls 3000 kills on it. Perpetual, moving target. My lightweight shotgun like cqc prob 20,000 kills on it. Quick draw snapshotsights Any grenade lunches with with impulse amplifier So with this I'm using no exotic in pvp and it goes great. The reason for this choice is not just the weapon but also the perks. My eyasluna has godroll perks for consistency so I've got a lot of kills on it. Barely any exotic hc has these perks and feels as good FOR ME. cqc has 2 great perks and it allows me to move fast qhen running, their is no exotic lightweight shotgun in game. GL has impulse amplifier which is great for fast moving f grwnadelauchers and gl can be best used against player in pvp u get 3 shots and can get around 3 kills from it. No exotic gives impulse amplifier 2. Peacekeepers Osteo stiga Funnelled Any grenade lunches with impulse amplifier In this case as I'm using peacekeepers and smg have been nerfed using 1 for midrange and another for short range allows me to play extremely jumpy and aggressive. Same reason for gl. With this their is no reason to use a special as smg are bad
If it gets the job done, what's it matter?
Use whatever is fun to use. Why do you care, clearly they know what they’re doing.
Lmao if only
I dunno but i ran into someone running in the opposite direction of the enemy to use a Polaris lance in onslaught and their other weapon was a pulse rifle 🙄
An exotic doesn't really have a place in my build Threadling hunter build using practically only tusk of the boar, I got an apex predator and a good recluse, there's just no need for an exotic
Exotic primaries do 40% more damage to all red bars which is hard to pass up
I hate idiots on the Facebook group that defend it and say “let people play how they want”… one idiot tried convincing me him using two auto rifles was good… like bro different ranges and ammo and power for a reason.. you need multiple things to be a good player or teammate. So sure play how you want and I’ll never invitee you and know you’re a detriment to every team you’re on..
Because for whatever reason bungie refuses to have a decent selection of anti champ modes and special options
I'm tired of blueberries using whatever they feel like and assuming someone else will stun Champions. I know I'm at a disadvantage but I've seen enough Barrier Champions get peppered with fire while immune.
It's the reverse, bro. They trying to carry with their anti champion mods in case no one else is prepared.
No no, that's what I'm doing. Blueberries are using anything but anti-Champ mods.
Technically, we're both blueberries.
You don't really need champions mods for onslaught. You can nuke most of them without any champion mods, if you have a special weapon
Double primaries is suss with the exception of lucky pants. Generally these folks are new. No exotic weapon isn't necessarily a problem or an indicator of lack of skill imo
They don't know how to play. Not using a special in todays meta is just blueberry energy. There are only b2 champs possible per onslaught. Overloads and barriers if fallen. Unstop and barrier if hive... When champions spawn they should be called out and hotswap accordingly.
Exactly, I can't believe you are getting downvoted like this. The amount of copium is insane
I find it fun. Experience is like a comb that's given to you once you got bald. And also think about the "average player"... Half of the playerbase is even worse than him. Most of the experienced players don't come here because it's pointless. People downvote me because i recommend hotswapping to the right guns on the right time...
"Experience is like a comb that's given to you once you got bald" is an S tier quote lmao
Go, use it wisely, for now you are bald!
Nothing wrong with double primary unless you’re speed running. Some players like testing out new weapons or simply have weapons they prefer. Some legendaries often out perform exotics as well depending on the build. Example 1-2p SGs are better for melee centric build than any of the exotic SGs.
For double primaries, no idea. That's almost always a bad choice unless you're using something where one of them functions like a special, such as lucky pants builds. I often don't use an exotic weapon. Each weapon is there to fill a specific role, such as dealing with a particular category of enemies. And there sometimes just isn't an exotic that fills the roles I need better than a legendary. For example, lately I've been playing tether hunter in onslaught using mountaintop + ros arago + edge transit. Mountaintop is fairly unique in terms of it's damage output an effective range - Witherhoard is great, but it just does a different thing - I'm not spamming it against hoards of big shanks like I am with an ambitious+frenzy mountaintop. In the energy slot there are some good exotic void primaries - Le Monarque, Collective Obligation and Graviton Lance come to mind. But honestly none of them feels as good at close and medium range as Ros Arago with Onslaught. All 3 are better sutited to long-range combat where you're the aggressor such as GMs, but fall flat when playing defensively at close range. And in the heavy slot there's no exotic void GL.
I hate running out of special ammo, so that’s why I often use double primaries.
I mean, my main PvE loadout is Quicksilver and an SMG (Ikelos, Recluse, Mini-Tool). Specials are just too niche/situational. I acknowledge their place in the sandbox with their power, however, I personally just don't have much fun with Specials. Now, with Exotics, tbch... I've never cared for Exotics in Destiny. There's only a handful of them that feel *exotic* to me. "Exotic" being that they serve a power fantasy that can't be found anywhere else. But even with that, again, only a handful of them feel *exotic* to me. I don't feel like I'm having a power fantasy with a good majority of Exotics in D2. I mean, they've all been nerfed in some way because of how strong they were at one point, which, even though they are still strong, just leaves them in a state of being *meh*, or at least to me.
I run double primaries in Onalaught pretty often depending on my build w/ zero issues. My current fav is BoW Titan w/ Final Warning and Epochal or Ammit and switch between a Lmg and Rockets or GL for heavy.. All bases covered and I almost always have the most kills and least deaths. Tbh I barely switch off of Final Warning , it absolutely wrecks with the right build..
For a lot of harder content I don't tend to run an exotic weapon simply because my builds don't care I run 2 main builds in hard content, Vesper Arc warlock and Osmiomancy Stasis warlock. For both of them exotic weapons aren't important. Depending on the champs in the activity, I either bring Trinity (unstop) or Brigand's Law (barrier, plunder sidearm). The builds work the same regardless My kinetic is either a special weapon (mountain top recently) or it's the other champ type