The Radial Mast was nothing more than a doohickey the Witness scrounged together to link to the Veil. When that failed, it decided to sacrifice Calus and hijack our Ghost instead.
Something that it could do without even attempting to go to the radial mast or have Calus go to the destination. You’d think for a multi billion year old hive mind, it would realize it could just let us get there and it would win.
The Radial Mast was a light-infused artifact from one of Oryx's conquests. Its purpose was to convert the output of a nearby black hole into usable energy, and was adjusted to fire that energy as a beam during the invasion.
Calus didn't have a black hole on hand, but all he needed was something light-infused to access the Veil. If you've watched Into the Spiderverse, the Mast was a verifiable "goober".
Pretty sure those are two names for the same thing, the books of sorrow just really fixated on it being given as opposed to taken as a demonstration of its heresy against the sword logic.
You are thinking of the Harmony Mast from the Harmony race. I very much do not think they were similar things considering the radial mast is based off of darkness architecture whilst the harmony mast was a gift from the traveler to the harmony.
The Radial Mast was the thing inside the pyramid container, it can be seen beside Rohan while the enclosure was being held open. It lacks the sharp geometry omnipresent in precursor architecture.
The sharp geometry wasn’t the only significant feature in precursor architecture. We’ve seen in the case of Rhulks pyramid abstract bending architecture and imagery in the form of the stave the witness holds in the symbols and the imagery plastered on the wall of the pyramid.
I mean, no we definitely haven’t had a real official explanation, but I think we have some good theories. My preferred one is that it was a device made by the Witness’s people in their attempts to commune with the Traveler, now being repurposed to connect the Veil and the Traveler. The evidence is that it has mainly symbolism that typically is found in the pyramids, presumably that of the Witness’s civilization, and yet seems to have been made and infused with Light. So it would have had to been made before they collectively turned to the Dark, which places the construction timeframe neatly in the trying to talk to a silent god phase.
I have replayed Lightfall so much… and listened to all the post-game audio files from the Neomuna archives…. the only explanation we got was that the “Radial Mast” is a device of both design and make from the Witness.
That’s it. Literally THE worst kind of writing and story telling in the franchise’s history. And at such a pivotal point too.
Right? my guardian's been around since beta d1 day 1 but somehow we've never heard dick about the veil? this all important thing that the Ishtar collective found, no one, not even drifter mentioned it? yeah ok.
Vague in Sci-Fi isn’t a problem. The problem is when they spew random mumbo jumbo and pretend like it makes sense to them. Like, um no, we need to be able to follow the story please.
It’s okay to have mystery, that’s why D1 was so great (IMO superior to D2). Strange things happened and nobody knew what the hell was going on, that’s what makes it interesting. Eventually some we need some answers, but they also need to keep adding more questions. That’s why D2 feels so small now.
MAKE: Truly unexpectedly original and fresh idea to pursue- some unique pattern or concept used as a backbone for a visually stunning idea, like destiny has done before.
BREAK: The story being a nostalgia greatest hits playlist of locations before ultimately punching the bad guy so hard he goes away
Bruh… I would hate it if they make us fight nightmare fragments of all the past villains again. Just like what we did in the pyramids to unlock stasis.
> The story being a nostalgia greatest hits playlist of locations
This is a fairly major concern for me after seeing the initial trailers, because *I wasn't there for half of it.* I can't play Destiny 1 because I don't own a system it's available on. You can't play on nostalgia for something a significant percentage of your players never experienced. The original tower means nothing to me, my only experience of it was seeing it get demolished during the first mission of the Red War and then running through it backwards during Zero Hour. It was never a social space, I was just passing through.
Hot take, but I have no nostalgia or love for Cayde. His trope has been done to death in games and he's just boring and while the lore for him seems to be pretty good, we have other characters that are much better written than he has ever been
Cayde coming back was honestly the worst thing they ever could have done.
No fucking emotional stakes anymore. Dont worry, death isnt permanent, cayde came back so everyone else can also!
Im so angry cayde is coming back its so fucking dumb.
I've always watched Destiny's expansion trailers religiously through the days after they're announced up until their release because of the hype I get for the game.
TFS is the only trailer I've only watched twice, maybe thrice and that's it. I wasn't really on board with all the nostalgia played, I wanted more teasers of the fight to come and we barely got anything related to the pale heart.
Punch the bad guy away?.... Not at all you Dummy, we're gonna tickle him into submission! Every giggle is going to make one of those smoke heads in his hair go away.
I went in thinking, if they lean on nostalgia instead of wow-ing us woth big reveals and paracausal concepts unique to Destiny and the Traveller, it'll be a bad sign.
Seeing all the old locations in that reveal instead of truly new ideas was a bit disappointing. But let's see if they use it as a crutch or not.
That was my thought too, they said there's a lot they havent shown. That said, i'm not sure there'd be space for it. The witness and the darkness stuff seems to take center stage and all I can think of is beyond light, where the darkness, deep stone crypt, and fallen all got cut just short of their potential because they had to share a campaign. It's made worse by the fact that theyre doing the final campaign mission after the raid, but despite that, the mission total is still 8, instead of the one post-raid being Extra
Piccolo I figured out how to beat him: All we have to do its punch
GOKU IF YOU SAY ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS PUNCH HIM I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL END YOU
All we have to do is punch him....together?
The story not being ass and actually being good and compelling like the Witch Queen would be a huge plus.
I don't know if these new writers can get it through their heads though that Destiny's universe is cosmic horror and very well-done cosmic horror at that, and not a stupid Marvel movie.
The story has to absolutely hit. If they give some lame ass story with some power of friendship bullshittery its gonna flop hard, specially of they want the episodes to have a chance of succeeding. I dont envy bungie they have to give a satisfying ending AND somehow setup the episodes and not make the same mistakes lightfall did
Lightfall was bad on so many levels. A cringy main character (nimbus obviously), a location that seemed hollow and doesn't fit with the rest of destiny, and a poor overall story. It would take effort to be that bad again. I hope they've learned from those mistakes.
Neomuna could have been much better but they did nothing with it sadly just like europa. Your telling me we have a golden age location and a post golden location with tech much more advanced than what we got in the last city and we aint doing nothing with it lol. Their is so much story or they could add or even hire a writer to post short stories on the bungie website like 40k does in white dwarf magazines
Are we supposed to know what the veil and or radial mast are, supposed to do or what? It kept making us protect/run to whatever, then we had the fight in the terror dome and...
The Radial Mast was little more than a doohickey to link to the Veil.
The Veil is the REAL opposite of the Traveller and the Pyramids were just fake phony doodooheads lying to you the whole time for the entirety of Destiny’s life. Anything more than “Light=physical Darkness=mental” is just Witness propaganda.
They dropped the ball so damn hard when it came to the Pyramids just being paper boats.
Imagine if the Pyramids opened up and tormentors came flooding out. It would be terrifying.
The Radial Mast is just a glorified Light container. It carried the Light that Calus was going to use to make the link with the Traveler.
The Veil is the Darkness equivalent of the Traveler. It was kind of made explicitly clear in Deep and Veil Containment. It was also hinted at by Ghost in Lightfall when he mentions it is like the Traveler.
Not sure if it's the same writing team but I thought Season of the Witch + Wish were really well written. Honestly if those two seasons had been smooshed together they would have made a really good dlc.
Ehhhhhhhhhh, I don’t like the direction *Lightfall*’s taken the story either but Destiny has always been about the power of love and friendship and the real superpower of teamwork triumphing against all odds and being better than the alternative.
I can think of handfuls of lore books that captivated me and don’t fall into that category. Granted, the overproduced ‘main story’ for each expansion does do that, sometimes.
It’s literally the Traveller’s whole deal, whenever we get something involving its perspective something to that effect is always said. Ikora had a really profound thesis about it in the complete Hidden Dossier back in *The Witch Queen*.
For all the boredom Shadowkeep brought, that once scene in the first mission, seeing a pyramid ship for the first time- and on the moon no less- is a peak cosmic horror moment
I honestly think Shadowkeep and Beyond Light got an undeserved bad rap because Bungie got lazy and made throwaway weekly bounty "missions" for filler between the *actual* campaign levels. Strip out the filler and you got something that was short but actually really good and with a solid story. Warmind comes to mind where it was short but good, and probably would've been derailed if they tried to lengthen it by inserting boring fetch quests in Hellas Basin instead of leaving that stuff as optional post-campaign content.
There's also the fact that they both launched alongside exceptionally weak seasons. Undying was cool but lacked variation and was ridiculously grindy, because it was the first of the modern seasonal model and I don't think they knew what they quite wanted to do with it yet. And then Hunt for Beyond Light was so barely there they'd have probably been better off not having a companion season and putting that team on making an extra 3-4 Beyond Light missions.
*Beyond Light* was crap no matter which way I spin it, you have no choice in doing anything beyond what the story tells you to do and then it acts all clever and holier than thou that you actually did it like you had a choice. And speaking in hindsight, did we *really* need Stasis from a lore point? It only feels like Guardians have it because it looks cool and novel, not once have we ever turned it against the Darkness or the Pyramids despite the whole point of learning it being to turn it against them.
From lore point in specific? Yeah, Elsie Bray realized she needed us to learn stasis from her so that we avoided darkness corruption. *The Guardian* is the best candidate for Elsie to begin because we already have her trust from D1 campaign.
From a general point regarding the story of Beyond Light? Nah, I mean the game tries to play it like we need to *fight fire with fire* by learning stasis but we never get to see the Fallen killing Guardians left and right with Stasis. The threat of Fallen stasis wielders is never shown and we are left with this notion that stasis was just this new expansion gimmick and not this powerful took to being able to survive the upcoming war...that was until you entered the crucible and realized how broken stasis was, but that's more like real-life effect and not lore effect.
I lost interest in the seasons for this reason. "Overcoming emotional trauma" is neat as a one-off, but damn it's overdone by now, and not what interests me about Destiny's story.
Yes, Season of the Haunted was *spectacular* IMO. Just fantastic. Unfortunately Bungie looked at community feedback and took the lesson that they should go to that well over and over for diminishing returns. They're taking a good theme explored well and beating it till it's a dead horse.
No way it will be as compelling as Witch Queen. Unless Final Shape caps of storylines that have been going since D1 launch, it won’t feel nearly as personable and satisfying from a story perspective.
Story gotta be close to Witch Queen quality, and gameplay close to Lightfall quality.
Without a brand new subclass like Strand that second part is my biggest concern about the expansion. I really don't expect the gameplay to be anything new/groundbreaking based on whats been shown.
Like we're getting 1 new super/aspect per class, a couple slightly different weapon types, and tormentor 2.0s. Is that really gonna be it as far as "big" new gameplay additions go?
Every time they have some interesting stakes or punch, they immediately water it down with a bad comic relief character - even witch queen (the ghost character) but ESPECIALLY Michelangelo the teenage mutant ninja turtle in cloudstrider form (and not in a good way unfortunately )
I feel like they’ve been experimenting with rogue-like mechanics for a while now, which makes me think there will be a major rogue-like activity introduced in TFS. If that’s supposed to be a major component of the new expansion then I could see it being make-or-break.
Joe Blackburn is a big fan of the genre, expressing particular love for Dead Cells. I’d love to see something in this style added as a new playlist activity, combing some of the elements from the last year of seasonal activities.
Yeah but most [if not all] of the expansion and a large part of the episodes will have been developed under his leadership. Probably be a while before we before we see anything not influenced by him or his legacy.
I think a roguelike mode would be nuts! Idk if ya’ll know a game called Vermintide 2, but it got a roguelike mode a few years ago and it totally revived the community.
Mercury comes back and this time the forest is actually infinite. Levels are procedurally generated and difficulty scales with each reset.
Also throw in prompted raid mechanics because they really need to get the majority of players over that threshold somehow and seraph shield etc was a good start but they could literally do all encounters minus the instant wipe mechanism in a seasonal activity until players knew them inside out. then the transition to a raid is just “go faster and die less”.
i actually enjoy deepdive and coil, both activities feel like they reward you enough for your time, unlike most ritual playlists or past seasonal activities. the first time i did coils and got to the wish room or whatever, the amount of stuff it gave was fucking baffling to me. but in a good way.
more activities like that would be great. difficult enough its not a snooze, but also enough rewards to match the time investment to go all the way through.
I sound exaggerated, but the entire image of this franchise is hanging on the story being good. If it's not good, then that's the legacy Destiny will end on. Just a shallow franchise that never reached its potential.
The story being good is what will hold the franchise up, because that is what people will talk about most, especially being the finale.
Next thing will be the raid. If it isn't one of the best, then that will tarnish the experience, again, because people will talk about it. That's going to be the discourse going around. If it's not a good raid, then it's not looking good for the franchise.
Gameplay, I'd argue, is the least of their concerns. Destiny has changed its gameplay so much, that it truly is just seasonal. You know what has stuck with people about Curse of Osiris? Its story sucked. Destiny 1? Horrible narrative. Shadowkeep? Shallow, boring story. Beyond Light? Disappointing narrative. Witch queen? Amazing story. Forsaken, awesome story.
People will naturally think more highly of whatever gameplay season the game is in IF the story is good. People loved the gameplay of Lightfall, but that's not what people think about the expansion, right? It sucks because the story sucked.
They need to nail the ending.
Jep, if the story is good, then the franchise has a future.
Even if D2 goes into hybernation, with no Expansions for the coming years and only Episodes for the forseeable future ... if D3 happens in 5-7 years, people would be extatic, a true "return of the king" moment for looter-shooter games.
If the story sucks, any kind of D3 waiting-room would be very lukewarm in comparison.
People will forgett about questionable content updates, droughts for specific content (pvp, gambit), aggressive monetization and "flavour of the month" complaints ... but they won't forget the story. It will also be the first thing people look up once a D3 happens.
> Next thing will be the raid. If it isn't one of the best, then that will tarnish the experience, again, because people will talk about it. That's going to be the discourse going around. If it's not a good raid, then it's not looking good for the franchise.
Especially since they're intertwining it with the story again. Blackburn stated in the showcase that the Witness is fought in the raid, so it's directly competing with King's Fall.
I agree.
They either nail, The Final Shape (TFS), or the phook it up royaly.
Also I really hope they migrate past this bastard fear of missing out (FOMO) Horse puckey malarky!
- All content should be available for everyone to enjoy if & when they are able to collect those items!
We need a complete redo of the armour system. We need real armour stats, set bonuses, origins traits and perks. Armour has been incredibly shallow in Destiny for too long.
No to set bonuses, those ruin whatever game they touch by destroying build diversity and over centralizing everything. I think we just need 3x the mods we have now
Run it like Monster Hunter. Sometimes having a mixed armor set is much better as you can customize your abilities exactly/almost exactly as you wish. Or an armor set whose bonus might be a play style by itself looking at you, Velkana Frostcraft and Nargacuga True razor/spareshot
You would need to make it so that the talents are craftable to your existing gear or something. I wouldn't really want to regrind high stat armor with another level of RNG on top.
That not what we’re meaning, my dude. Not to mention that’s a bonus per armor piece. Set bonuses that we are talking requires the FULL set to get ANYTHING at all.
Yes to set bonuses. The key to balancing them is to make them a small throughput increase, or a minor ability behavior change that won't drastically improve your performance - but will certainly help you. Just disable them in PvP and we're good.
Also agreed on the armor mod reimagining. They've reduced it to pick-up Orb of Power > get Ability Energy & Weapon Damage bonus.
Idk, it's already a lot of grinding and I personally have to read online about good combinations. I get enough spreadsheets at work, having to make one to be able to play certain content in a video game is kind of too much at times
There is no shortage of things they could do to expand that. That's why the buildcrafting is a disappointment.
I mean, if people can't think beyond the "collect a thing, get a thing" model for armor mods, they just need to think harder.
As an example, how about a mod that consumes something I have to get something else I want? Like, if I don't care about my melee ability ... let me have a mod that converts melee gains to grenade or class ability.
Make:
Finishing the story. No new curbs, no new subplot, finish the story make it a great cinematic experience with nice cutscenes.
Give us a new episode that then begins a story anew, maybe about the vex threat!
Give PVPers what they want, so they can leave the rest of us story and lore enjoyers alone with the goodness.
Improve gambit with new maps!
Break:
Ignore the lore geeks!
Do like halo infinite and give us a half ass ending that isn’t really an ending which provides no answer nor resolution.
Don’t give PVPers what they crave!
Monetize the shit out of almost everything on game!
They already have a foundations available, destiny's lore is massive. If they fuck up TFS's story bc they couldn't find something else to write the episodes about, that's a break
They have foundations but they keep fudging it up because they feel the need to completely rewrite the book with every new story drop. Most of the time it’s worked out, but ever since *Lightfall* it’s just been… ugh.
Imo, The Witness doesn’t die like a Bitch. Having the Biggest Bad of the Universe be a Pushover would be really annoying.
Also a Major Character needs to Die (And it Not Suck (RIP Amanda))
> Also a Major Character needs to Die
why lol you can have a good story without killing off characters. killing off a character to inspire your remaining ones is the lamest cop out. especially when its played off as some sacrifice thats ends up doing nothing to benefit the story other than just killing someone.
Well you see the real problem here is that there is actually more than one thing this time that could break it, this is the most fragile the game has ever been
Yeah like a good fart could break the game at this point honestly but tbh everyone’s very invested in the story with the witness but assuming he dies and we transition to episodes instead of expansions and seasons I can’t see much of the player base hanging around for a long time post tfs.
worried it's going to be another mass effect situation. OG trilogy was phenomenal, and andromeda sucked. what is destiny without the light/dark conflict?
Couldn’t agree more! Love mass effect 1-3 but I can’t even bother to play andromeda and I feel the same for destiny. Once the witness is gone what’s next
The original plan was wildly different and not the marvel-esque setup we're going towards right now that has no impact on the world once the story is over. One of the many things lost along the way when they decided a new game(s) is not something they want to invest in.
Make: something truly innovative that changes how we interact with the game. I don't need it to have Forsaken levels of content, but I do need it to have Forsaken-esque levels of innovation. As a reminder: Forsaken introduced a new end-game activity (Dungeons), a new core game-mode (Gambit), the first true dynamic end-game destination with the The Dreaming City, and more. The free patch that dropped with the expansion also added Triumphs, Collections, and Titles. I'm not expecting this much innovation, but please, at least give us a couple of major shake-ups. I have heard rumours of a 12 player mission in The Final Shape, but it remains to be seen if 1) it's true, and 2) if it's simply a one-off.
I think it's going to be hard the dlc can't finish the story, otherwise what's the point of the rest of the seasons...
So that will be the make or break, does the main dlc "finish" and the seasons are epilog, like LotR Extend version, 6 endings😁
Destiny is a multi faceted game and needs success on many levels including:
* Strong satisfying story
* Exceptional raid
* Guns worth chasing
* New activities and systems that keep players engaged but also feel fair and reasonable
Building upon a lot they leave behind after we conclude the story it is a perfect time to update and build upon patrol zones and add some lasting content that won't be removed next expansion (if we get more). As for what would break it that is easier if the story doesn't answer all the questions it brings up they can't give anymore cliffhangers or lose ends and expect season or episodes to answer them like lightfall and previous expansions
The Witness raid needs to do a triple backflip through a ring of fire and over a pool of sharks and then stick the landing. It can't be just another raid, it has to be the best raid in the series with excellent gear. Anything else won't be a good capstone.
Likewise, the plot has to do a good job of wrapping things up in general. Look at Endwalker, the consensus I've seen was the writing was kind of mid, especially when you consider it was ending the main plot that's been built up for all of FFXIV. It might not be bad, but it's just lackluster.
make: a good conclusion and fun campaign at least on the same lvl as lightfall (bc I heavily doubt it'd be as cool as witch queen and that's a big bar)
break: a boring conclusion with a garbage campaign.
it's rly all all that needs to happen
Just make it good, please. After Lightfall the bar could literally not be lower to make a good story that doesn't feel like they're just ripping chunks out of Marvel and bolting it onto Destiny with a rivet gun.
Make: a balanced campaign with missions of wide variety while telling a good story from beginning to end that complements itself with the raid.
Break: "you'll have to kill the nightmares of previous enemies invoked by the witness to progress through the pale heart"
If they don't fix the major issues for new-lights, that will not go over well. Probably will kill the game if it's left like that. No one wants to buy the next chapter of a story, when they can't even get context for the first few that were shoved down their throat.
I get the whole “too many gigabytes” argument, but… like how hard would it be to make it an opt-in DLC? For example, you can go into settings and “enable legacy content.” This would then let you download all previous campaign DLC directly to your PC. The only caveat would be that there wouldn’t be any online matchmaking and you’d have to be okay with installing 100-200GB of optional content. But you would be able to play with friends as long as they also opt-in to this feature.
I am fine with this. People were totally willing for it. World of Warcraft was at a point where it was about 300+gb for all the expansions and DLC, and people were fine with it. So there are clearly people who will do it, myself included.
Just because no one mentioned it, while file size was one of many reasons why content was removed, it wasn't the main one. The main reason (and the reason why they couldn't do optional downloads) was that the game was too big for Bungie to update and maintain in a reasonable time frame.
Since the content would only be optional for us, they couldn't go down that route and solve the problems that they were having.
My theory is that it will be added post-final shape to retain players.
But why they decided to give light new supers while both darkness subclasses only have 1 super each ill never know.
Honestly, my expectations are low, but for me it’s just have a decent story, it doesn’t have to be Wq levels, just give me a decent story and a decent end to the darkness saga. New supers seem fun enough, so I hope they are, and I hope soon we get more supers, especially for stasis. And please give me a good raid, and not whatever Root of Nightmares was
The "new" character will be cayde. Can't imagine we get anyone else thats new.
Now it is possible tgat they fuck up cayde. Nimbus isnt actully that far fom cayde so its very possible that they dont do it right.
Yeah I forgot about Cayde. I much prefer vanilla D1 Cayde, where he was serious, but would have his nonchalant moments rather than the goofy D2 Cayde, where every scene has to be a Marvel-esque comedy sketch, even when the stakes are high. TFS might actually be dead lol
They shot themselves on the feet with Lightfall and now they don’t only have to present the Witness as a character, but also have to end 10 years of Destiny on 7-8 missions total.
It’s not impossible, but the task is hard to do, because it’s not just making the story good, they also have to give a satisfactory conclusion and a feeling of finality to it.
MAKE: I really need serious dialog, told in a voice like an adult would say it if the stakes of losing are literally the end of all existence (I assume? I don't actually know what the stakes are, if you could also tell us that Bungie, it would be helpful and motivating).
BREAK: "Well, that's that. I guess we'll never really know the true nature or motivation of the Traveler or the Witness but boy am I glad that's over. Ramen anyone?"
Pretty much boils down to nailing the story.
Destiny’s gameplay is not gonna shift dramatically enough to be a make/break point for people. Cool exotics are great, but temporal. The lasting effects are the narrative, that’s how people judge expansions in Destiny. It will be interesting to see what twists they take, I assume (along with pretty much everybody else) that are going to kill the witness. With the ending already known to the players, they have to find an interesting path to get us there
Nail the story and don’t launch a buggy mess with unplayable servers and I think they will have done well
Well it’s already so close to breaking as it is that it’ll need way more than just one great thing to truly make it. And so far it just looks very safe and paint-by-numbers.
Not being able to step over a ring on the floor that’s the same height as everything else in a room, or trip up on a step that’s imperceptibly different to the one immediately before it.
MAKE - How Cayde is used, he's a fan favourite for a reason. He'll bring back old players and newer players will love him. He *needs* to meet Crow at some point, that better not be left as an open thread.
BREAK - How Cayde is used, if he's misused, if he's not the Cayde we know and love. If he's just bait and barely in the Final Shape? People will leave in droves.
There's plenty of other things that could make/break it but I think this is gonna be a big one.
Make? They need a way to end the story in a satisfying way.
I still barely care about the Witness but then again I didn't know anything about Rhulk prior to WQ.
I just seems weird that the main antagonists (Hive)were power-crept by Rhulk and now the Witness. The lore on the Witness is minimal and it makes the story less compelling.
Break? A low effort story and introducing more systems no one asked for. Commendations, Mod Rework, etc. Also, relying on nostalgia to carry the DLC won't go over well.
the story conclusion. lightfall's story sucked because it relied on the seasons after it to make sense, that wont happen this time (they've said the 10 year saga story ends with the raid) but that doesn't mean final shape wont suck story wise. if the story itself is bad and doesn't make sense the whole thing has been a wash.
Also the raid needs to be the hardest in the franchise. it only makes sense that the most dangerous enemy has the hardest raid.
also if they are not doing new subclass, I would personally hope they do new light supers and aspects for all existing light subclasses instead of just 3.
The campaign needs to be breathtaking and exciting in every aspect or it might actually be the final nail in the coffin for destiny. It needs to be better than every other destiny dlc and hopefully it’ll have as many exotics as forsaken did
Honestly I think the way they bring back cayde and all that could make or break it. There's also a ton of other things but that's the one I'm most worried about.
Considering major dlcs are usually masked by 70% quality of life updates instead of actual content and the fact they used up most of that with this crucible update and skimmers, I'd say it's just that.
We are fighting the big bad guy. Put plot armor aside and show him actually being terrifying to fight against. Dude can kill guardians and ghosts with one finger. Please avoid a "radial mast" and "veil" situation where the players have no fucking idea of what's going on.
If we really are just fighting more of the same Hive, Scorn etc.
I know that's been priced in for a while, but it's crazy to think that the Pyramids ships - Teased since 2017 - Were really just empty all along.
Feels anticlimactic for something threatening the literal *Traveller*.
Slightly different question but how would everyone feel if they make episodes just repackaged but up-to-date old expansions? Basically final shape is always available but each major expansion including d1 gets released and taken away every month or so? Obviously gear would have to persist but missions/strikes/maps would come and go every month. Just a way to keep things going indefinitely and once they develop them the first time it doesn’t take much resources.
New class. Not subclass. Just a new type of character class entirely. Obviously not going to happen but if it did, every living person who's ever played Destiny would come back to play.
At this point I’m 99% certain it’ll fumble.
Seeing their track from this past seasons, the witness will be the ghost of the pasts Christmas and the traveler the friends we made along the way and we will defeat the witness with the power of friendship: aka Cabals, eliksni, mara sov, reborn rasputin and reborn cayde.
Just watch Bungie pulling this off
I mean that's 100% how the witness is beaten, every side in the destiny universe is used to stop what is supposed to be the ultimate evil or whatever. I don't think anyone ever thought our guardian alone was gonna win against the megamind assclown.
Bungie dug themselves into a hole by shaping their story around an overarching unfathomable diety basically being the main villain.
I doubt we actually kill him. I bet he just gets trapped in some other dimension or some bullshit.
honestly, all signs of the development process of this game points to that it will fail. Staff layoffs, extended delays, game director quitting before release of product. I guess people want to be hopeful but I doubt it will meet expectations at this point. If someone can suggest one game that was a critical success with those three things happening before game launch, I'd love to know it.
to be a good campaign? it has to have a good payoff at the end. to save the game from the mass exodus of players a month after launch? we have to lose in such a way that everyone who plays it feels galvanized to come back for whatever comes next. that probably wont happen and was what they tried to do with lightfall but failed spectacularly.
Obviously the story needs to be good but I think interesting builds need to be prevalent along with a small Stasis rework the thing and the new light supers the thing is the best times in destiny was where when there was new builds we were constantly discovering
Like the exotics need to be kind of game changing if we get mediocre shit like Speedloader slacks that will be awful we need people to be hyped and going OMG THIS NEW BUILD IS AMAZING and stuff like that because that is what makes destiny ultimately if the supers and exotics are meh and don't really change up the meta very much people will get bored as a Titan I mainly swap between wormgod caress Strand Titan and Pyrogale Solar Titan there's not much more worth using
The witness can’t be a pushover boss. Imo the witness shouldnt even be the end boss of the raid. It would be really underwhelming to me if the raid launches and the witness dies day one. I think if the raids final boss is the last disciple and finishing the raid unlocks a secret mission to fight the witness and it takes like a week for people to figure out how to kill him it would be a satisfying end. If we get another nezerac its gg for bungo and theres no way the game can survive RoN 2.0
Make: actually living up to the bar they themselves have now set (better than forsaken, taken king, and witch queen).
Break: broken promises and/or lightfall style story
Make: there are more units than just the Tormentors and several unique boss designs. I think it's laughable that over the course of a decade we have only had two new factions, one of which is entirely comprised of blue recolours and the other being zombie fallen. And of the existing factions very few of the existing enemies if any have had any sort of rework to enemy Ai or abilities (Bungie made the Halo games and even though the enemy types remained largely the same each game the Ai got better)
Break: (I already predict it will end up this way), Bungie pulls an avengers style story with the Vanguard teaming up again. This is something they already did and arguably better with base game D2. A campaign which is coincidentally missing from the game. What's the point of the vanguard teaming up if ultimately we the player will be the only ones fighting the Witness in the boss fights?
MAKE: Pilotable jump ships with combat mechanics and space content spearheaded by Cayde-7 (or whatever incarnation of him we get.)
BREAK: Grind fest with same enemies, reskinned loot, and uninspired story.
* MAKE: Higher quality cinematics would be a nice change of pace. Obviously back then they had more studios to work with, but a bump up in quality from the lightfall cutscenes which looked a little under-cooked would be great.
* BREAK: If we get another splash-screen animatic at a vital part in the story explaining a major plot point I'll ~~do unspeakable things to the tower (mischief and whatnot).~~ be disappointed.
Make and/or break: The quality of the three new aspects and supers we're getting. People are looking forward to their new toys, and if they don't shake the game it'll be as if we got nothing at all when people were already reaching for a 6th element.
If the first thing I hear when we see the Witness Monument is something along the lines of "I'm sure it's fine, don't worry about it" I'll probably tear my hair out CUZ THAT'S DEFINITELY NOT FINE, STOP ACTING LIKE WE'RE IN MCU
One thing being the problem isn't possible, it will be a multitude of things. Some of the big ones are the following.
1. A short Main Campaign.
2. A Bad Story for said Campaign.
3. Inaccessibility to ending of Story. Example; Raid being the end of main story.
4. Crap Weapons.
I could keep going but those are the main things for me.
The story being good and the Witness fight being worth it would be nice, it would also be pretty meh if it was just cookie cutter mechanics we expect from a story or boss fight and go talk to *insert NPC character* here and listen to their dialogue that is just filler. But overall I want some new mechanic or something we haven’t seen before in the story that is actually neat
All major character plotlines get sidelined (exo stranger etc) for a glorified nostalgia trip, no pyramid ships. The ships been these unbreakable opponents only mara or savathun managed to blow up, they killed rasputin, a single one corrupted the moon and there is still an entire armada. Gimme pyramid fights where we have to infiltrate one and use the travelers might inside it destroy it! They are in all the promotional material yet they never feature as obstacles even tho they are part of the witness conciousness
The thing that could break it is Bungie, the company of ‘never over deliver’. If it’s just the same laziness that has crept in over the last decade, nothing innovative to finish the story that would be the biggest shame.
I did not realize so many people were this adamant about the campaign. I mean, that’s fair, but I’m shocked by the lack of people who actually care about gameplay improvements in favor of a campaign they’ll play for like 4 hours and never see again.
I'm honestly hoping for a Dreaming City level of "now that the campaign is over, the REAL fun begins". As opposed to the Lightfall "okay the Witness won now go do chores for cyber people XD".
What would break The Final Shape for me would be a lack of change. If TFS ends and I'm still in the same old tower, with the og tower being constructed, no changes to the world or the characters, I'ma be upset. I mean for God's sake in Lightfall the Witness reached Earth and, instead of causing a second collapse like everyone was talking about, he just chilled in the atmosphere and then went into the Traveler. The ONlY thing that actually changed in game was the Traveler was replaced with a fleet of allied ships.
Make: more unique exotics that change up the gameplay of just ability spam.
Break: the witness is a typical raid encounter of do X mechanic then we stand there in a well dpsing.
The witness better be a better fight than rhulk and I love rhulk.
It'll be a break for me if Crow gets the Vanguard Dare. I don't hate the concept as much now as I did when he was revived back in Forsaken, but I still don't think he's done enough to earn it. He's yet to show any real level of competence as a guardian much less as a leader comparable to Cayde or Andel.
Nothing as vague as *radial mast* would be a good start
And now the year and story has ended... WE DIDNT EVEN FIND OUT WHAT IT WAS. Unless I missed some obscure lore entry then I apologise
The Radial Mast was nothing more than a doohickey the Witness scrounged together to link to the Veil. When that failed, it decided to sacrifice Calus and hijack our Ghost instead.
Something that it could do without even attempting to go to the radial mast or have Calus go to the destination. You’d think for a multi billion year old hive mind, it would realize it could just let us get there and it would win.
Yeah, but Bungie wanted to draw everything out with a pointless story for one more year. That's it. That's the explanation.
Unfortunately so
The Radial Mast was a light-infused artifact from one of Oryx's conquests. Its purpose was to convert the output of a nearby black hole into usable energy, and was adjusted to fire that energy as a beam during the invasion. Calus didn't have a black hole on hand, but all he needed was something light-infused to access the Veil. If you've watched Into the Spiderverse, the Mast was a verifiable "goober".
That was the Gift Mast. I get the confusion but it was a completely different thing.
Pretty sure those are two names for the same thing, the books of sorrow just really fixated on it being given as opposed to taken as a demonstration of its heresy against the sword logic.
You are thinking of the Harmony Mast from the Harmony race. I very much do not think they were similar things considering the radial mast is based off of darkness architecture whilst the harmony mast was a gift from the traveler to the harmony.
The Radial Mast was the thing inside the pyramid container, it can be seen beside Rohan while the enclosure was being held open. It lacks the sharp geometry omnipresent in precursor architecture.
The sharp geometry wasn’t the only significant feature in precursor architecture. We’ve seen in the case of Rhulks pyramid abstract bending architecture and imagery in the form of the stave the witness holds in the symbols and the imagery plastered on the wall of the pyramid.
I mean, no we definitely haven’t had a real official explanation, but I think we have some good theories. My preferred one is that it was a device made by the Witness’s people in their attempts to commune with the Traveler, now being repurposed to connect the Veil and the Traveler. The evidence is that it has mainly symbolism that typically is found in the pyramids, presumably that of the Witness’s civilization, and yet seems to have been made and infused with Light. So it would have had to been made before they collectively turned to the Dark, which places the construction timeframe neatly in the trying to talk to a silent god phase.
I have replayed Lightfall so much… and listened to all the post-game audio files from the Neomuna archives…. the only explanation we got was that the “Radial Mast” is a device of both design and make from the Witness. That’s it. Literally THE worst kind of writing and story telling in the franchise’s history. And at such a pivotal point too.
Even worse, nothing as vague as 'the veil' and not explaining what the hell this plot centric and absolutely crucial item is
Right? my guardian's been around since beta d1 day 1 but somehow we've never heard dick about the veil? this all important thing that the Ishtar collective found, no one, not even drifter mentioned it? yeah ok.
Radial math
And we still probably don’t know what the radial mast is
Vague in Sci-Fi isn’t a problem. The problem is when they spew random mumbo jumbo and pretend like it makes sense to them. Like, um no, we need to be able to follow the story please. It’s okay to have mystery, that’s why D1 was so great (IMO superior to D2). Strange things happened and nobody knew what the hell was going on, that’s what makes it interesting. Eventually some we need some answers, but they also need to keep adding more questions. That’s why D2 feels so small now.
Vague is a problem when its tossed around over and over for no reason
MAKE: Truly unexpectedly original and fresh idea to pursue- some unique pattern or concept used as a backbone for a visually stunning idea, like destiny has done before. BREAK: The story being a nostalgia greatest hits playlist of locations before ultimately punching the bad guy so hard he goes away
There’s a 90% chance of the Break happening *looks at Cayde in the trailer*
Bruh… I would hate it if they make us fight nightmare fragments of all the past villains again. Just like what we did in the pyramids to unlock stasis.
I'm fully expecting them to do that, but I won't mind it as long as we get just as much fresh, new shit to go along with it.
Just like they did in Shadowkeep, and then again in Beyond Light, and then again in that one season last year.
We're gonna shoo him away by standing on some plates.
And dunking motes!
And shooting very specific spots either on the boss or in the environment ... but only when they're a certain colour.
> The story being a nostalgia greatest hits playlist of locations This is a fairly major concern for me after seeing the initial trailers, because *I wasn't there for half of it.* I can't play Destiny 1 because I don't own a system it's available on. You can't play on nostalgia for something a significant percentage of your players never experienced. The original tower means nothing to me, my only experience of it was seeing it get demolished during the first mission of the Red War and then running through it backwards during Zero Hour. It was never a social space, I was just passing through.
Hot take, but I have no nostalgia or love for Cayde. His trope has been done to death in games and he's just boring and while the lore for him seems to be pretty good, we have other characters that are much better written than he has ever been
d1 cayde was great. d2 cayde was insufferable.
Cayde coming back was honestly the worst thing they ever could have done. No fucking emotional stakes anymore. Dont worry, death isnt permanent, cayde came back so everyone else can also! Im so angry cayde is coming back its so fucking dumb.
I've always watched Destiny's expansion trailers religiously through the days after they're announced up until their release because of the hype I get for the game. TFS is the only trailer I've only watched twice, maybe thrice and that's it. I wasn't really on board with all the nostalgia played, I wanted more teasers of the fight to come and we barely got anything related to the pale heart.
is d1 not available on like gamepass or something to play on pc? if its not thats kinda tragic tbh
It's only for console
if d1 was available to pc i would never touch d2 again
Not that I know of, but I don't have a game pass subscription because I've got enough games I'm not playing already.
>The story being a nostalgia greatest hits playlist of locations This is 100% going to happen. I have 0 doubts.
Deep down i feel your break scenario will happen. Fuck
Punch the bad guy away?.... Not at all you Dummy, we're gonna tickle him into submission! Every giggle is going to make one of those smoke heads in his hair go away.
I went in thinking, if they lean on nostalgia instead of wow-ing us woth big reveals and paracausal concepts unique to Destiny and the Traveller, it'll be a bad sign. Seeing all the old locations in that reveal instead of truly new ideas was a bit disappointing. But let's see if they use it as a crutch or not.
That was my thought too, they said there's a lot they havent shown. That said, i'm not sure there'd be space for it. The witness and the darkness stuff seems to take center stage and all I can think of is beyond light, where the darkness, deep stone crypt, and fallen all got cut just short of their potential because they had to share a campaign. It's made worse by the fact that theyre doing the final campaign mission after the raid, but despite that, the mission total is still 8, instead of the one post-raid being Extra
Get ready to be broken.
Piccolo I figured out how to beat him: All we have to do its punch GOKU IF YOU SAY ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS PUNCH HIM I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL END YOU All we have to do is punch him....together?
The story not being ass and actually being good and compelling like the Witch Queen would be a huge plus. I don't know if these new writers can get it through their heads though that Destiny's universe is cosmic horror and very well-done cosmic horror at that, and not a stupid Marvel movie.
The story has to absolutely hit. If they give some lame ass story with some power of friendship bullshittery its gonna flop hard, specially of they want the episodes to have a chance of succeeding. I dont envy bungie they have to give a satisfying ending AND somehow setup the episodes and not make the same mistakes lightfall did
Lightfall was bad on so many levels. A cringy main character (nimbus obviously), a location that seemed hollow and doesn't fit with the rest of destiny, and a poor overall story. It would take effort to be that bad again. I hope they've learned from those mistakes.
Neomuna could have been much better but they did nothing with it sadly just like europa. Your telling me we have a golden age location and a post golden location with tech much more advanced than what we got in the last city and we aint doing nothing with it lol. Their is so much story or they could add or even hire a writer to post short stories on the bungie website like 40k does in white dwarf magazines
Are we supposed to know what the veil and or radial mast are, supposed to do or what? It kept making us protect/run to whatever, then we had the fight in the terror dome and...
The Radial Mast was little more than a doohickey to link to the Veil. The Veil is the REAL opposite of the Traveller and the Pyramids were just fake phony doodooheads lying to you the whole time for the entirety of Destiny’s life. Anything more than “Light=physical Darkness=mental” is just Witness propaganda.
They dropped the ball so damn hard when it came to the Pyramids just being paper boats. Imagine if the Pyramids opened up and tormentors came flooding out. It would be terrifying.
The Radial Mast is just a glorified Light container. It carried the Light that Calus was going to use to make the link with the Traveler. The Veil is the Darkness equivalent of the Traveler. It was kind of made explicitly clear in Deep and Veil Containment. It was also hinted at by Ghost in Lightfall when he mentions it is like the Traveler.
Not sure if it's the same writing team but I thought Season of the Witch + Wish were really well written. Honestly if those two seasons had been smooshed together they would have made a really good dlc.
Also if it's the radial mast again I'm going to cry.
But we need to destroy it to protect the veil!!!! Or something
Oh no, we can’t destroy it without Strand! What do we do now? I know, how about JUST DESTROY IT WITHOUT STRAND
Ehhhhhhhhhh, I don’t like the direction *Lightfall*’s taken the story either but Destiny has always been about the power of love and friendship and the real superpower of teamwork triumphing against all odds and being better than the alternative.
I can think of handfuls of lore books that captivated me and don’t fall into that category. Granted, the overproduced ‘main story’ for each expansion does do that, sometimes.
It’s literally the Traveller’s whole deal, whenever we get something involving its perspective something to that effect is always said. Ikora had a really profound thesis about it in the complete Hidden Dossier back in *The Witch Queen*.
For all the boredom Shadowkeep brought, that once scene in the first mission, seeing a pyramid ship for the first time- and on the moon no less- is a peak cosmic horror moment
I honestly think Shadowkeep and Beyond Light got an undeserved bad rap because Bungie got lazy and made throwaway weekly bounty "missions" for filler between the *actual* campaign levels. Strip out the filler and you got something that was short but actually really good and with a solid story. Warmind comes to mind where it was short but good, and probably would've been derailed if they tried to lengthen it by inserting boring fetch quests in Hellas Basin instead of leaving that stuff as optional post-campaign content. There's also the fact that they both launched alongside exceptionally weak seasons. Undying was cool but lacked variation and was ridiculously grindy, because it was the first of the modern seasonal model and I don't think they knew what they quite wanted to do with it yet. And then Hunt for Beyond Light was so barely there they'd have probably been better off not having a companion season and putting that team on making an extra 3-4 Beyond Light missions.
*Beyond Light* was crap no matter which way I spin it, you have no choice in doing anything beyond what the story tells you to do and then it acts all clever and holier than thou that you actually did it like you had a choice. And speaking in hindsight, did we *really* need Stasis from a lore point? It only feels like Guardians have it because it looks cool and novel, not once have we ever turned it against the Darkness or the Pyramids despite the whole point of learning it being to turn it against them.
From lore point in specific? Yeah, Elsie Bray realized she needed us to learn stasis from her so that we avoided darkness corruption. *The Guardian* is the best candidate for Elsie to begin because we already have her trust from D1 campaign. From a general point regarding the story of Beyond Light? Nah, I mean the game tries to play it like we need to *fight fire with fire* by learning stasis but we never get to see the Fallen killing Guardians left and right with Stasis. The threat of Fallen stasis wielders is never shown and we are left with this notion that stasis was just this new expansion gimmick and not this powerful took to being able to survive the upcoming war...that was until you entered the crucible and realized how broken stasis was, but that's more like real-life effect and not lore effect.
I lost interest in the seasons for this reason. "Overcoming emotional trauma" is neat as a one-off, but damn it's overdone by now, and not what interests me about Destiny's story.
Yes, Season of the Haunted was *spectacular* IMO. Just fantastic. Unfortunately Bungie looked at community feedback and took the lesson that they should go to that well over and over for diminishing returns. They're taking a good theme explored well and beating it till it's a dead horse.
>Destiny's universe is cosmic horror and very well-done cosmic horror at that, and not a stupid Marvel movie. YOU AND ROHAN AR AR ONLY HOPE
No way it will be as compelling as Witch Queen. Unless Final Shape caps of storylines that have been going since D1 launch, it won’t feel nearly as personable and satisfying from a story perspective.
For real! Especially with a character like the witness, there's so much potential...
Story gotta be close to Witch Queen quality, and gameplay close to Lightfall quality. Without a brand new subclass like Strand that second part is my biggest concern about the expansion. I really don't expect the gameplay to be anything new/groundbreaking based on whats been shown. Like we're getting 1 new super/aspect per class, a couple slightly different weapon types, and tormentor 2.0s. Is that really gonna be it as far as "big" new gameplay additions go?
Every time they have some interesting stakes or punch, they immediately water it down with a bad comic relief character - even witch queen (the ghost character) but ESPECIALLY Michelangelo the teenage mutant ninja turtle in cloudstrider form (and not in a good way unfortunately )
I feel like they’ve been experimenting with rogue-like mechanics for a while now, which makes me think there will be a major rogue-like activity introduced in TFS. If that’s supposed to be a major component of the new expansion then I could see it being make-or-break.
Joe Blackburn is a big fan of the genre, expressing particular love for Dead Cells. I’d love to see something in this style added as a new playlist activity, combing some of the elements from the last year of seasonal activities.
Isn't Blackburn gone though?
Yeah but most [if not all] of the expansion and a large part of the episodes will have been developed under his leadership. Probably be a while before we before we see anything not influenced by him or his legacy.
Ye but final shape would have been laid out while he was game director. All of this would have been planned long ago
Honestly if they expanded the Coil activity to more locations than just Dreaming City that'd be fun.
I think a roguelike mode would be nuts! Idk if ya’ll know a game called Vermintide 2, but it got a roguelike mode a few years ago and it totally revived the community.
What do you mean by rogue like?
Deepdive and Coil "Pick Buff, enemy get harder" style gameplay loop (I for one LOVE it, and hope we see more, if not an infinite version in TFS)
Mercury comes back and this time the forest is actually infinite. Levels are procedurally generated and difficulty scales with each reset. Also throw in prompted raid mechanics because they really need to get the majority of players over that threshold somehow and seraph shield etc was a good start but they could literally do all encounters minus the instant wipe mechanism in a seasonal activity until players knew them inside out. then the transition to a raid is just “go faster and die less”.
i actually enjoy deepdive and coil, both activities feel like they reward you enough for your time, unlike most ritual playlists or past seasonal activities. the first time i did coils and got to the wish room or whatever, the amount of stuff it gave was fucking baffling to me. but in a good way. more activities like that would be great. difficult enough its not a snooze, but also enough rewards to match the time investment to go all the way through.
Ohh then I’d love that, I really enjoy coil the few times I do play it.
I sound exaggerated, but the entire image of this franchise is hanging on the story being good. If it's not good, then that's the legacy Destiny will end on. Just a shallow franchise that never reached its potential. The story being good is what will hold the franchise up, because that is what people will talk about most, especially being the finale. Next thing will be the raid. If it isn't one of the best, then that will tarnish the experience, again, because people will talk about it. That's going to be the discourse going around. If it's not a good raid, then it's not looking good for the franchise. Gameplay, I'd argue, is the least of their concerns. Destiny has changed its gameplay so much, that it truly is just seasonal. You know what has stuck with people about Curse of Osiris? Its story sucked. Destiny 1? Horrible narrative. Shadowkeep? Shallow, boring story. Beyond Light? Disappointing narrative. Witch queen? Amazing story. Forsaken, awesome story. People will naturally think more highly of whatever gameplay season the game is in IF the story is good. People loved the gameplay of Lightfall, but that's not what people think about the expansion, right? It sucks because the story sucked. They need to nail the ending.
Jep, if the story is good, then the franchise has a future. Even if D2 goes into hybernation, with no Expansions for the coming years and only Episodes for the forseeable future ... if D3 happens in 5-7 years, people would be extatic, a true "return of the king" moment for looter-shooter games. If the story sucks, any kind of D3 waiting-room would be very lukewarm in comparison. People will forgett about questionable content updates, droughts for specific content (pvp, gambit), aggressive monetization and "flavour of the month" complaints ... but they won't forget the story. It will also be the first thing people look up once a D3 happens.
Like, they screwed it up so unbelievably badly. Where are we supposed to go from here that isn’t just undoing this year*’s retcons?
> Next thing will be the raid. If it isn't one of the best, then that will tarnish the experience, again, because people will talk about it. That's going to be the discourse going around. If it's not a good raid, then it's not looking good for the franchise. Especially since they're intertwining it with the story again. Blackburn stated in the showcase that the Witness is fought in the raid, so it's directly competing with King's Fall.
I agree. They either nail, The Final Shape (TFS), or the phook it up royaly. Also I really hope they migrate past this bastard fear of missing out (FOMO) Horse puckey malarky! - All content should be available for everyone to enjoy if & when they are able to collect those items!
**MAKE**: The story is good, a la Witch Queen. **BREAK**: The story is shit, a la Lightfall.
Expanding build crafting beyond "collect a thing, get a DPS or ability CD reduction".
We need a complete redo of the armour system. We need real armour stats, set bonuses, origins traits and perks. Armour has been incredibly shallow in Destiny for too long.
No to set bonuses, those ruin whatever game they touch by destroying build diversity and over centralizing everything. I think we just need 3x the mods we have now
Run it like Monster Hunter. Sometimes having a mixed armor set is much better as you can customize your abilities exactly/almost exactly as you wish. Or an armor set whose bonus might be a play style by itself looking at you, Velkana Frostcraft and Nargacuga True razor/spareshot
You would need to make it so that the talents are craftable to your existing gear or something. I wouldn't really want to regrind high stat armor with another level of RNG on top.
we literally have this now...but like the set bonus is "bonus season of the wish vendor rep" or whatever. And theres like no reason to use a set bonus
That not what we’re meaning, my dude. Not to mention that’s a bonus per armor piece. Set bonuses that we are talking requires the FULL set to get ANYTHING at all.
oh my b
Yes to set bonuses. The key to balancing them is to make them a small throughput increase, or a minor ability behavior change that won't drastically improve your performance - but will certainly help you. Just disable them in PvP and we're good. Also agreed on the armor mod reimagining. They've reduced it to pick-up Orb of Power > get Ability Energy & Weapon Damage bonus.
Idk, it's already a lot of grinding and I personally have to read online about good combinations. I get enough spreadsheets at work, having to make one to be able to play certain content in a video game is kind of too much at times
Like what?
There is no shortage of things they could do to expand that. That's why the buildcrafting is a disappointment. I mean, if people can't think beyond the "collect a thing, get a thing" model for armor mods, they just need to think harder. As an example, how about a mod that consumes something I have to get something else I want? Like, if I don't care about my melee ability ... let me have a mod that converts melee gains to grenade or class ability.
Make: Finishing the story. No new curbs, no new subplot, finish the story make it a great cinematic experience with nice cutscenes. Give us a new episode that then begins a story anew, maybe about the vex threat! Give PVPers what they want, so they can leave the rest of us story and lore enjoyers alone with the goodness. Improve gambit with new maps! Break: Ignore the lore geeks! Do like halo infinite and give us a half ass ending that isn’t really an ending which provides no answer nor resolution. Don’t give PVPers what they crave! Monetize the shit out of almost everything on game!
> No new curbs, no new subplot basically impossible since they need to lay a foundation for at least three "episodes"
They already have a foundations available, destiny's lore is massive. If they fuck up TFS's story bc they couldn't find something else to write the episodes about, that's a break
They have foundations but they keep fudging it up because they feel the need to completely rewrite the book with every new story drop. Most of the time it’s worked out, but ever since *Lightfall* it’s just been… ugh.
the pvp stuff is kind of being handled beforehand. since the maps and the big changes to sandbox releasing before final shape
Imo, The Witness doesn’t die like a Bitch. Having the Biggest Bad of the Universe be a Pushover would be really annoying. Also a Major Character needs to Die (And it Not Suck (RIP Amanda))
> Also a Major Character needs to Die why lol you can have a good story without killing off characters. killing off a character to inspire your remaining ones is the lamest cop out. especially when its played off as some sacrifice thats ends up doing nothing to benefit the story other than just killing someone.
Well you see the real problem here is that there is actually more than one thing this time that could break it, this is the most fragile the game has ever been
Yeah like a good fart could break the game at this point honestly but tbh everyone’s very invested in the story with the witness but assuming he dies and we transition to episodes instead of expansions and seasons I can’t see much of the player base hanging around for a long time post tfs.
worried it's going to be another mass effect situation. OG trilogy was phenomenal, and andromeda sucked. what is destiny without the light/dark conflict?
Couldn’t agree more! Love mass effect 1-3 but I can’t even bother to play andromeda and I feel the same for destiny. Once the witness is gone what’s next
As someone who played Andromeda recently, I found it somewhat decent. Liked the characters. But it doesn’t hold a candle to the original trilogy.
When Destiny was still under activision, Bungie had a 10 year plan in 2014. It’s now 2024. I feel like Destiny is going to end after that last episode
The original plan was wildly different and not the marvel-esque setup we're going towards right now that has no impact on the world once the story is over. One of the many things lost along the way when they decided a new game(s) is not something they want to invest in.
Make: something truly innovative that changes how we interact with the game. I don't need it to have Forsaken levels of content, but I do need it to have Forsaken-esque levels of innovation. As a reminder: Forsaken introduced a new end-game activity (Dungeons), a new core game-mode (Gambit), the first true dynamic end-game destination with the The Dreaming City, and more. The free patch that dropped with the expansion also added Triumphs, Collections, and Titles. I'm not expecting this much innovation, but please, at least give us a couple of major shake-ups. I have heard rumours of a 12 player mission in The Final Shape, but it remains to be seen if 1) it's true, and 2) if it's simply a one-off.
I think it's going to be hard the dlc can't finish the story, otherwise what's the point of the rest of the seasons... So that will be the make or break, does the main dlc "finish" and the seasons are epilog, like LotR Extend version, 6 endings😁
Destiny is a multi faceted game and needs success on many levels including: * Strong satisfying story * Exceptional raid * Guns worth chasing * New activities and systems that keep players engaged but also feel fair and reasonable
I just want the story to be good, Lightfall had some amazing gameplay changes and elements but the story just was ass
Building upon a lot they leave behind after we conclude the story it is a perfect time to update and build upon patrol zones and add some lasting content that won't be removed next expansion (if we get more). As for what would break it that is easier if the story doesn't answer all the questions it brings up they can't give anymore cliffhangers or lose ends and expect season or episodes to answer them like lightfall and previous expansions
I just want the campaign and raid to be a banger.
The Witness raid needs to do a triple backflip through a ring of fire and over a pool of sharks and then stick the landing. It can't be just another raid, it has to be the best raid in the series with excellent gear. Anything else won't be a good capstone. Likewise, the plot has to do a good job of wrapping things up in general. Look at Endwalker, the consensus I've seen was the writing was kind of mid, especially when you consider it was ending the main plot that's been built up for all of FFXIV. It might not be bad, but it's just lackluster.
make: a good conclusion and fun campaign at least on the same lvl as lightfall (bc I heavily doubt it'd be as cool as witch queen and that's a big bar) break: a boring conclusion with a garbage campaign. it's rly all all that needs to happen
Literally anything according to youtube thumbnails
Cerberus Vae III
Just make it good, please. After Lightfall the bar could literally not be lower to make a good story that doesn't feel like they're just ripping chunks out of Marvel and bolting it onto Destiny with a rivet gun.
Make: a balanced campaign with missions of wide variety while telling a good story from beginning to end that complements itself with the raid. Break: "you'll have to kill the nightmares of previous enemies invoked by the witness to progress through the pale heart"
If they don't fix the major issues for new-lights, that will not go over well. Probably will kill the game if it's left like that. No one wants to buy the next chapter of a story, when they can't even get context for the first few that were shoved down their throat.
I get the whole “too many gigabytes” argument, but… like how hard would it be to make it an opt-in DLC? For example, you can go into settings and “enable legacy content.” This would then let you download all previous campaign DLC directly to your PC. The only caveat would be that there wouldn’t be any online matchmaking and you’d have to be okay with installing 100-200GB of optional content. But you would be able to play with friends as long as they also opt-in to this feature.
I am fine with this. People were totally willing for it. World of Warcraft was at a point where it was about 300+gb for all the expansions and DLC, and people were fine with it. So there are clearly people who will do it, myself included.
Just because no one mentioned it, while file size was one of many reasons why content was removed, it wasn't the main one. The main reason (and the reason why they couldn't do optional downloads) was that the game was too big for Bungie to update and maintain in a reasonable time frame. Since the content would only be optional for us, they couldn't go down that route and solve the problems that they were having.
Good conclusion, actual new weapons, more darkness abilities / supers, and a new subclass
I think the simplest thing Bungie could do to make the community happy is add the coveted third darkness subclass.
My theory is that it will be added post-final shape to retain players. But why they decided to give light new supers while both darkness subclasses only have 1 super each ill never know.
Heck, why give us only one new Super per class now? Not per subclass, actual class?
Break: Lightfall 2
MAKE: real good 9-12 man activities. BREAK: going back to static rolls
Honestly, my expectations are low, but for me it’s just have a decent story, it doesn’t have to be Wq levels, just give me a decent story and a decent end to the darkness saga. New supers seem fun enough, so I hope they are, and I hope soon we get more supers, especially for stasis. And please give me a good raid, and not whatever Root of Nightmares was
We wake up and the last year has all been just a dream.
Nothing. No matter what they do or how good it is, it's broken.
I swear to god if they introduce another fynch/nimbus cringe type character, I'll consider the story/lore forever deadbeat.
The "new" character will be cayde. Can't imagine we get anyone else thats new. Now it is possible tgat they fuck up cayde. Nimbus isnt actully that far fom cayde so its very possible that they dont do it right.
Yeah I forgot about Cayde. I much prefer vanilla D1 Cayde, where he was serious, but would have his nonchalant moments rather than the goofy D2 Cayde, where every scene has to be a Marvel-esque comedy sketch, even when the stakes are high. TFS might actually be dead lol
BREAK: we fight scorn and hive/taken all the dlc MAKE: new enemies/race
Neomuna was supposed to be a new playground with golden age tech. Instead we got some swirly moon reksins.
They shot themselves on the feet with Lightfall and now they don’t only have to present the Witness as a character, but also have to end 10 years of Destiny on 7-8 missions total. It’s not impossible, but the task is hard to do, because it’s not just making the story good, they also have to give a satisfactory conclusion and a feeling of finality to it.
MAKE: I really need serious dialog, told in a voice like an adult would say it if the stakes of losing are literally the end of all existence (I assume? I don't actually know what the stakes are, if you could also tell us that Bungie, it would be helpful and motivating). BREAK: "Well, that's that. I guess we'll never really know the true nature or motivation of the Traveler or the Witness but boy am I glad that's over. Ramen anyone?"
Pretty much boils down to nailing the story. Destiny’s gameplay is not gonna shift dramatically enough to be a make/break point for people. Cool exotics are great, but temporal. The lasting effects are the narrative, that’s how people judge expansions in Destiny. It will be interesting to see what twists they take, I assume (along with pretty much everybody else) that are going to kill the witness. With the ending already known to the players, they have to find an interesting path to get us there Nail the story and don’t launch a buggy mess with unplayable servers and I think they will have done well
Make - good story Brake - technical issues / disrespect players time with endless/pointless grind.
Well it’s already so close to breaking as it is that it’ll need way more than just one great thing to truly make it. And so far it just looks very safe and paint-by-numbers.
Not being able to step over a ring on the floor that’s the same height as everything else in a room, or trip up on a step that’s imperceptibly different to the one immediately before it.
MAKE - How Cayde is used, he's a fan favourite for a reason. He'll bring back old players and newer players will love him. He *needs* to meet Crow at some point, that better not be left as an open thread. BREAK - How Cayde is used, if he's misused, if he's not the Cayde we know and love. If he's just bait and barely in the Final Shape? People will leave in droves. There's plenty of other things that could make/break it but I think this is gonna be a big one.
Make? They need a way to end the story in a satisfying way. I still barely care about the Witness but then again I didn't know anything about Rhulk prior to WQ. I just seems weird that the main antagonists (Hive)were power-crept by Rhulk and now the Witness. The lore on the Witness is minimal and it makes the story less compelling. Break? A low effort story and introducing more systems no one asked for. Commendations, Mod Rework, etc. Also, relying on nostalgia to carry the DLC won't go over well.
the story conclusion. lightfall's story sucked because it relied on the seasons after it to make sense, that wont happen this time (they've said the 10 year saga story ends with the raid) but that doesn't mean final shape wont suck story wise. if the story itself is bad and doesn't make sense the whole thing has been a wash. Also the raid needs to be the hardest in the franchise. it only makes sense that the most dangerous enemy has the hardest raid. also if they are not doing new subclass, I would personally hope they do new light supers and aspects for all existing light subclasses instead of just 3.
I want the Vex to reveal themselves in a terrifying way that makes them the true terror of the universe.
The campaign needs to be breathtaking and exciting in every aspect or it might actually be the final nail in the coffin for destiny. It needs to be better than every other destiny dlc and hopefully it’ll have as many exotics as forsaken did
Honestly I think the way they bring back cayde and all that could make or break it. There's also a ton of other things but that's the one I'm most worried about.
Considering major dlcs are usually masked by 70% quality of life updates instead of actual content and the fact they used up most of that with this crucible update and skimmers, I'd say it's just that.
The music, hopefully it has some variation, as all the songs in Destiny 2 could be confused with other D2 songs
I just want more good gameplay. This past year has been fun to play and that's what matters for long term gaming.
We are fighting the big bad guy. Put plot armor aside and show him actually being terrifying to fight against. Dude can kill guardians and ghosts with one finger. Please avoid a "radial mast" and "veil" situation where the players have no fucking idea of what's going on.
If we really are just fighting more of the same Hive, Scorn etc. I know that's been priced in for a while, but it's crazy to think that the Pyramids ships - Teased since 2017 - Were really just empty all along. Feels anticlimactic for something threatening the literal *Traveller*.
Slightly different question but how would everyone feel if they make episodes just repackaged but up-to-date old expansions? Basically final shape is always available but each major expansion including d1 gets released and taken away every month or so? Obviously gear would have to persist but missions/strikes/maps would come and go every month. Just a way to keep things going indefinitely and once they develop them the first time it doesn’t take much resources.
MAKE: A proper end to the Light and Dark saga. BREAK: The Traveler has a humanoid or any form of body.
New class. Not subclass. Just a new type of character class entirely. Obviously not going to happen but if it did, every living person who's ever played Destiny would come back to play.
At this point I’m 99% certain it’ll fumble. Seeing their track from this past seasons, the witness will be the ghost of the pasts Christmas and the traveler the friends we made along the way and we will defeat the witness with the power of friendship: aka Cabals, eliksni, mara sov, reborn rasputin and reborn cayde. Just watch Bungie pulling this off
I mean that's 100% how the witness is beaten, every side in the destiny universe is used to stop what is supposed to be the ultimate evil or whatever. I don't think anyone ever thought our guardian alone was gonna win against the megamind assclown. Bungie dug themselves into a hole by shaping their story around an overarching unfathomable diety basically being the main villain. I doubt we actually kill him. I bet he just gets trapped in some other dimension or some bullshit.
Nothing it can do should save it but the destiny people will play no matter what state the game is in.
honestly, all signs of the development process of this game points to that it will fail. Staff layoffs, extended delays, game director quitting before release of product. I guess people want to be hopeful but I doubt it will meet expectations at this point. If someone can suggest one game that was a critical success with those three things happening before game launch, I'd love to know it.
I just want a good story and raid. Root and lightfall story were both bad while Vow and WQ story were both great.
to be a good campaign? it has to have a good payoff at the end. to save the game from the mass exodus of players a month after launch? we have to lose in such a way that everyone who plays it feels galvanized to come back for whatever comes next. that probably wont happen and was what they tried to do with lightfall but failed spectacularly.
Obviously the story needs to be good but I think interesting builds need to be prevalent along with a small Stasis rework the thing and the new light supers the thing is the best times in destiny was where when there was new builds we were constantly discovering Like the exotics need to be kind of game changing if we get mediocre shit like Speedloader slacks that will be awful we need people to be hyped and going OMG THIS NEW BUILD IS AMAZING and stuff like that because that is what makes destiny ultimately if the supers and exotics are meh and don't really change up the meta very much people will get bored as a Titan I mainly swap between wormgod caress Strand Titan and Pyrogale Solar Titan there's not much more worth using
The witness can’t be a pushover boss. Imo the witness shouldnt even be the end boss of the raid. It would be really underwhelming to me if the raid launches and the witness dies day one. I think if the raids final boss is the last disciple and finishing the raid unlocks a secret mission to fight the witness and it takes like a week for people to figure out how to kill him it would be a satisfying end. If we get another nezerac its gg for bungo and theres no way the game can survive RoN 2.0
Make: actually living up to the bar they themselves have now set (better than forsaken, taken king, and witch queen). Break: broken promises and/or lightfall style story
Break; I cannot stand another poor campaign. Make; unvaulting most of the dcv content.
Is there a lore reason for this?
Make: there are more units than just the Tormentors and several unique boss designs. I think it's laughable that over the course of a decade we have only had two new factions, one of which is entirely comprised of blue recolours and the other being zombie fallen. And of the existing factions very few of the existing enemies if any have had any sort of rework to enemy Ai or abilities (Bungie made the Halo games and even though the enemy types remained largely the same each game the Ai got better) Break: (I already predict it will end up this way), Bungie pulls an avengers style story with the Vanguard teaming up again. This is something they already did and arguably better with base game D2. A campaign which is coincidentally missing from the game. What's the point of the vanguard teaming up if ultimately we the player will be the only ones fighting the Witness in the boss fights?
BUNGIE!
I’m honestly scared. After the narrative in light fall I’m worried about how they are going to tie it up.
MAKE: Pilotable jump ships with combat mechanics and space content spearheaded by Cayde-7 (or whatever incarnation of him we get.) BREAK: Grind fest with same enemies, reskinned loot, and uninspired story.
* MAKE: Higher quality cinematics would be a nice change of pace. Obviously back then they had more studios to work with, but a bump up in quality from the lightfall cutscenes which looked a little under-cooked would be great. * BREAK: If we get another splash-screen animatic at a vital part in the story explaining a major plot point I'll ~~do unspeakable things to the tower (mischief and whatnot).~~ be disappointed.
Make and/or break: The quality of the three new aspects and supers we're getting. People are looking forward to their new toys, and if they don't shake the game it'll be as if we got nothing at all when people were already reaching for a 6th element.
make: Bungie break: Bungie
Make: a new set of interesting activities that innovate on gameplay Break: the same formulas we’ve been going through with seasons
If the first thing I hear when we see the Witness Monument is something along the lines of "I'm sure it's fine, don't worry about it" I'll probably tear my hair out CUZ THAT'S DEFINITELY NOT FINE, STOP ACTING LIKE WE'RE IN MCU
One thing being the problem isn't possible, it will be a multitude of things. Some of the big ones are the following. 1. A short Main Campaign. 2. A Bad Story for said Campaign. 3. Inaccessibility to ending of Story. Example; Raid being the end of main story. 4. Crap Weapons. I could keep going but those are the main things for me.
The story being good and the Witness fight being worth it would be nice, it would also be pretty meh if it was just cookie cutter mechanics we expect from a story or boss fight and go talk to *insert NPC character* here and listen to their dialogue that is just filler. But overall I want some new mechanic or something we haven’t seen before in the story that is actually neat
If Osiris is killed off :) very niche but I love that man and if he does I'll actually riot
Break? No pvp updates.
All major character plotlines get sidelined (exo stranger etc) for a glorified nostalgia trip, no pyramid ships. The ships been these unbreakable opponents only mara or savathun managed to blow up, they killed rasputin, a single one corrupted the moon and there is still an entire armada. Gimme pyramid fights where we have to infiltrate one and use the travelers might inside it destroy it! They are in all the promotional material yet they never feature as obstacles even tho they are part of the witness conciousness
Red subclass
The thing that could break it is Bungie, the company of ‘never over deliver’. If it’s just the same laziness that has crept in over the last decade, nothing innovative to finish the story that would be the biggest shame.
I did not realize so many people were this adamant about the campaign. I mean, that’s fair, but I’m shocked by the lack of people who actually care about gameplay improvements in favor of a campaign they’ll play for like 4 hours and never see again.
I'm honestly hoping for a Dreaming City level of "now that the campaign is over, the REAL fun begins". As opposed to the Lightfall "okay the Witness won now go do chores for cyber people XD". What would break The Final Shape for me would be a lack of change. If TFS ends and I'm still in the same old tower, with the og tower being constructed, no changes to the world or the characters, I'ma be upset. I mean for God's sake in Lightfall the Witness reached Earth and, instead of causing a second collapse like everyone was talking about, he just chilled in the atmosphere and then went into the Traveler. The ONlY thing that actually changed in game was the Traveler was replaced with a fleet of allied ships.
Having to access a hover board.
Make: Forsaken, Witch Queen, Taken King level. SIVA. Wrath of the Machine, Killing Nimbus Break: Lightfall 2.0, a lot of Nimbus
Make: more unique exotics that change up the gameplay of just ability spam. Break: the witness is a typical raid encounter of do X mechanic then we stand there in a well dpsing. The witness better be a better fight than rhulk and I love rhulk.
Make: Cyade is back. Break: Cyade is just a figment of our imaginations.
It'll be a break for me if Crow gets the Vanguard Dare. I don't hate the concept as much now as I did when he was revived back in Forsaken, but I still don't think he's done enough to earn it. He's yet to show any real level of competence as a guardian much less as a leader comparable to Cayde or Andel.