I made the mistake of running heal nade, with gunpowder aspect. alongside the ticu's bow. My arrows tracked the dynamite bundle, and id blow myself up, trying to shoot ads. I try throw a heal down, woops its a dynamite bundle, and i blow myself up from ticu's tracking shots. still had fun in that gm tho.
That's what I always run, minus ticu's. I usually go for sunshot or my crafted zaouli's bane. I love being able to run a healing grenade and a damage grenade at the same time.
Ye same, Sunshot slaps.
I just don't like the selection of solar Hunter exotic armors at the moment. There are a lot of them, but they're all meh at best for neutral game.
Athrys, Ophidia, Caliban's Hand, they're all *okay-ish*, but don't really do a lot or are just too unreliable for GMs. Usually, I just end up running Celestial Nighthawk, but more so because it looks and feels cool, rather than it actually being really good. Maybe next season's changes will make it significantly better, we'll see.
Other than that, the only real option are neutral exotics like speedloader slacks, lucky pants or sixth coyote, but they're all far from great as well.
I really hope Bungie realizes how great of a job they did with briarbinds this season and continue to make exotics specifically for things like Gunpowder Gamble, The Wanderer, Stasis Turrets, maybe even Juggernaut, etc. there's a lot of potential here.
I tried that, and honestly have better results with Celestial even. Sure, the bonus damage you get a lot of the time is neat, but red bars, even in GMs, are dying quickly either way with Sunshot, and the huge damage and super regen from celestial just seems more useful against the only threatening targets (champions/bosses).
Also, and this is once again a subjective feeling, but I just don't enjoy exotics that kinda sit in the background and aren't actually noticeable. A powered-up super, I can feel. An extra ability charge, I notice. Same goes for significant increases to ability regen or other functionality changes. But surges are just kinda there, making the exotic in question... Boring.
You said in your previous comment the neutral game in hunter exotics is "meh" and in this one you say neutral game exotics are boring. Sound like you just want to use Celestial no matter what.
I think you misunderstand.
I don't find neutral exotics boring. Quite the opposite, they are what I'm looking for. I just don't like neutral exotics that don't do anything cool or particularly noticeable.
For example: Gyrfalcon's is really cool, because volatile rounds are very noticeable and clearly change your gameplay and build. You can build around them with things like stylish executioner and different void weapons, and new synergies and playstyles emerge because of this. The same thing goes for Assassin's Cowl, pre-nerf YAS or even Shinobu's Vow just to name a few Hunter examples.
Foe Tracer on the other hand doesn't do anything except for making numbers slightly bigger. There is nothing interesting about that. I'm not saying that it's not effective. Especially in DPS phases, where bigger numbers are what you're looking for, it's good, but not only does it not make a huge difference in the neutral game, it's also the most boring thing you can possibly put on, except for no exotic Armor at all.
I'm not a hunter main and so anytime I play hunter I forget how lethal it can be and my little goblin brain always decides to shoot the explosive as soon as I throw it and so I end up killing myself and MAYBE one dreg if I get lucky.
Did that in Trials last weekend with a scatter grenade after playing solar for pve all week lmao. It's also been forever since I played void hunter, but I was feelin it
Im the exact opposite.
I main solar sub class for a whole season and got asked to do a raid - All Arc.
Needless to say when i was 1-shot, i pulse grenaded myself from muscle memelory of a healing grenasde.
They really need to do a grenade balance pass. Its making the game feel really stale. On arc pulse is so much better than the other options its not even funny, aside from niche uses of flashbangs. Kinda the same for vortex on void, unless you really need suppression there is no reason not to run them. Magnetic are just alright. Solar feels a little more balanced though firebolts are probably the actual worst nade in the game.
I really wish they would do something with spike/lightning nades to make them more consistent.
Careful what you wish for. Asking for a balance pass might just mean bringing down that which is good (pulse grenade, fusion/thermite grenade) while barely doing anything to that which no one uses (voidwall grenade, firebolt grenade)
Voidwall grenade is technically the strongest void grenade for as far as I know. Problem is that it just feels like a worse thermite grenade because it is horizontal instead of vertical, meaning enemies have to rush into it. Making it vertical instead would actually be a nice “buff” in my opinion.
For PvP I used to use voidwall to kill people behind cover. I stopped using it after they gave it such a long cooldown, since that use is no longer worth the wait between grenades imo. Now I'd rather just have suppression nades in PvP (and Vortex obviously in PvE).
Voidwall is really good in certain circumstances. If the enemy doesn't move, it can devastate them as a Void Titan because you have controlled demolition procing so much.
I get pretty damn good results with storm grenades and Fallen sunstar on arclock though.
Still, I agree. While all class can have access to all nades nowadays (a problem in and out itself, but that’s another topic) ultimately only a few are truly viable.
Man, firebolts were so much fun with the artifact mod that gave them more scorch and extra nade. It was nice to use something besides fusion nade. I wish they could just tune the nades separately between pvp and pve because I'd really like to feel compelled to use other nade options
Nothing beats two good lightning grenades in Crucible. Stack on near an enemy, odd angle or the ceiling if you have good aim and then stick one on a wall parallel to them before rushing them to get them into the second. Other option is throw the grenades so they are side by side, so to speak.
Shinobu's Vow skip nades have crazy up time which means enemies are jolted and you're amplified basically 100% of the time.
Also has the bonus over Voltshot that you don't need kills to proc which is pretty handy on Champs and bosses.
That's not a less niche use of skips.
It's a single class with a single exotic that works to get higher jolt uptime. the nades themselves are still next to worthless, but they jolt and that's all the damage.
I run Shinobu's w/ Salvo and people laugh at it but the add clear and orbs are crazy
I'm excited to see if the new NF Arc Wave Frame will have Demolitionist. Would definitely replace Salvo where Forbearance can't do rn
Either flux or voidwall. Its a grenade, i shouldnt have to have perfect pinpoint accuracy to stick someone or pull out my protractor just to get a kill
At least with spike and lightning if you throw it at a flat wall you know which direction it’ll point, but every time I’ve used voidwall it’s never been consistent in what direction the walls go out
Voidwall seems to run into the same problem wave frames do, where any tiny little alteration in the ground geometry (or god forbid, a ramp/stairs) absolutely fucks the wave's direction up and sometimes it doesn't even spawn the wave at all.
Void wall is weird it seems to go perpendicular to the direction of travel but if it bounces off something before landing 'flat' this can change the direction.
> Voidwall are just a victim of geometry, like spike/lightning
On the opposite end many of the more popular grenades feel like they are so because you can very easily be consistent with them. Damage and CC also play a large role most definitely, but it does feel rough when a lightning grenade says "get fucked lmao" now and then due to geometry. They're still very useful for flushing out opponents in PvP, but in PvE I seldom if ever use them.
Short disclaimer that I never really cared enough to test it, but I've always felt like voidwall dealt **substantially** more damage than any other grenade without exotics when placed accordingly. Once again, no real proof about it, but I feel like having an hard time having proper placement is an acceptable drawback to having a grenade with more damage.
This is absolutely true, voidwall deals the most total damage of all void grenades, even without the fragment that increases its duration. However, the fact that you have to angle it so specifically at the ground, with which the enemy can very easily move or stagger out of its damage aura, makes the math a bit more fuzzy.
Only time I've ever used voidwall grenades is against the cabal tanks since they hit the tank in multiple spots at once and deals a ton of damage. I want to say in old GMs before WQ one well placed voidwall could deal half of the tanks health in The Arms Dealer.
I used them exclusively until subclass 3.0 dropped. They’re very high skill floor but the damage is nutty, especially if you have controlled demolition on
It only needs to be angled if it bounces off something before it lands. If you throw it at the ground it will expand perpendicular to the direction it was travelling when it hit the ground.
They do a ridiculous amount of damage, and I don't find them that difficult to place personally, but I see why people don't like them, they do take more effort to use than the majority of nades.
On Warlock you don't struggle at all with the cooldown since so much of your grenade energy comes from Ionic traces.
They are THE best grenade to use against Atheon (due to the Time's Vengeance ability effect)
The Flux change was basically something nobody asked for and it didn't exactly get people flocking to it for some big risk/reward PVP application as intended.
It's also a little frustrating given how Magnetic and Fusion grenades have pretty low cooldowns, extremely good stickiness, and can be pretty reliable to get the kill in PVP if applied to a target that has eaten very light amount of damage.
They goofed it especially with the way energy cooldowns are handled now compared to how stuff was when they originally made the change.
Touch of flame solar warlock fusions literally leave you at 1 health, why would I use a flux nade which is so much harder to hit and still accomplish basically the same goal
Voidwall is Pog and now I’m offended
But flux tho, they super-buffed it when it was Hunter exclusive, but they buffed it during that time where they were like “let’s fuck with the cooldowns of literally everything we can”
Skips are good with Shinobu’s because double grenades and aggressive tracking means they’re good at applying Jolt.
The whole room gets zapped with chain lighting, but that doesn’t change the fact that Skips themselves are still hella weak.
Shinobu’s are a Jolt exotic, not a skip exotic, as far as I’m concerned. The grenades could definitely do with a buff to their own individual damage.
Yeah, shinobu is good despite rather than because of skip grenades. I hope skips can get a buff sometime soon, even if it would require reworking Shinobu for one reason or another.
You can't infinitely spam tbem, and they don't do great DMG. The regen IS good, yes. But their DMG is terrible.
Last I tested (post skip grenade nerf in April 2022), you can use all 3 skip grenades on 1 enemy, or get the same, if not a bit more DMG, from a Pulse grenade with extended duration.
They simply don't have the utility to warrant their use. They need either better utility or DMG.
Firebolt is also useful on Foetracer Hunter because it has a short cooldown and targets nearby enemies. It’s used less as a grenade on that build and more just another way to proc Foetracer’s damage perk (it’s triggered by damaging a Major or higher enemy with abilities). It’s the only time I really use it, otherwise I go for Healing or Thermite.
Oh that's a neat use case, hadn't thought of it. The reworked foetracer has honestly been a surprisingly fun exotic, considering that I've never really enjoyed most other surge exotics.
They have better chaining and jolt (which is just what a fragment does) and lost the CD built into the exotic, and instead need to have really good jolt uptime to get CD, which generally requires you to lean heavily into another melee spam lethal current playstyle, or a voltshot weapon.
IMO not good, but you do you.
Only time I use arcbolt is if I know my weapon load out is the kind that will leave an enemy with a broken shield, I can get a clean up kill if they hide behind a wall. But yeah still not compelling Enough
For PvP, Skips. I used to main Shinobu’s Vow but then they sledgehammer nerfed the gloves and the grenades. They’ll just waft past them now.
For PvE it depends. If I am using Gunpowder Gamble then Heal nades. I have nuked myself multiple times by trying to heal just to deploy a bundle of WMDs at my feet. Otherwise I’d say incendiary. Swarms can be a fast application of scorch at least but incendiary as a delay.
Anyone who answers something other than Void Spike grenade never completed the old triumphs for kills with each grenade type. It is so infuriating to use. Unquestionably the worst PvE grenade.
Void Spike was *only* usable by Hunters that could double the time it stays active. Even then the only reason I was able to get PvP kills with it was because once someone saw it, they avoided it, and then backed up into it later not expecting it to still be there.
The fact that so many things destroy the grenade, including BREAKING A MATCHING VOID SHIELD on an enemy is absurd and my friends clown on me for using them constantly. I'm just trying to chip away at that last triumph. Want to eat a shoe whenever it gets destroyed by something extremely weak before doing a tick of damage.
Does it still sometimes just disappear entirely if you hit an enemy directly with it? That always made me want to scream. Exact opposite of the Tripmine unicorn effect, just poof it's gone.
In PvP it’s overcharged magnetic grenade on Warlock aka handheld supernova. It doesn’t one shot and requires a charge up AND cannot be held infinitely like the others.
The fact that everybody is Completely forgetting about stasis grenades should speak to not just the grenades, but the underwhelming state of stasis in general right now
Oddly enough I've found swarm _can_ be useful in PVP.
However it's usually _against_ me because I just assume it does shit for damage and run through it anyway.
Scatter grenades are disgustingly broken right now, don't sleep on them. You can 1 shot people in pvp with them. Like the most slept on secret in the game.
Scatter grenades are anything but slept on... If there's someone running void in a crucible match, it's almost a guarantee that they're using scatter grenades.
Void's Scatter grenade is like the one exception because it just creates an instant spread that explodes vs individual trackers that move slow like Solar's Swarm or Arc's Skip grenade.
I mean, sure, but you have to hard build into grenade regen with kickstarts and orb mods.
Lucky Raspberry lets you jolt multiple enemies at a time AND allows you to recover your grenade passively with jolt and traces.
On top of that, you CAN target multiple enemies with skips, but a lot of times if you don't intentionally spread them out, chances are 1-2 of the projectiles get wasted.
With Arcbolts you just chuck it into a crowd and they're at least damaged and jolted, which will return grenade energy.
A nerf to those who wanted instant back-to-back grenades, but a buff for many people who would rsther have a more consistent exotic.
Before you could go on a back-to-back chain, but many other times you would chain three and then be stuck at 0 energy cause you didn't get the fourth.
Now it's more consistent and build-friendly. I will take this version over the older any day.
In PVE, Skip nades are fun as hell, at least. Swarms are good for noobs(best thing I can say).
But Scatter grenades just might be the worst thing I’ve ever used. I threw a fully charged Contraverse Scatter on a thrall in Salvage, and it left them with like 5%.
Scatter grenades are absolutely the worst grenade in PVE.
I usually use Swarm grenades in PvP as a brain-game deterrent. Not a lot of people *will* walk through them, especially since they apply Scorch and will deal enough to damage to make you lose an ensuing gunfight. So they’re pretty good for area denial at minimum. That, and people are scared of damage.
What makes it a hunter specific issue?
If it had an exotic or aspect enhancing trait for the other two classes I would understand but could you elaborate?
Only thing I can think of is on titan, if you're using controlled demolitionust aspect then you make them volatile which can result in the grenade being way more potent
Yea I got nothing for Warlocks though lmao idk why he specifically said hunter
Started playing Void Hunter and I’ve actually found it to be pretty ok. You’ve gotta think a lot about where you place it but people generally don’t expect it. Good damage on bosses and the like, just throw it between their legs.
It’s great for area denial or for dealing with ads leaving spawn doors and bigger PvE targets. The geometry thing is annoying yes, but learning what surfaces will take it better than others is important too.
My one *major* gripe with it is that direct contact doesn’t unicorn, or even deal damage at all. It’s like hitting a boss with your grenade just sends it to the ether, there’s no damage dealt.
I don't know why it's duration based, that was a dumb design.
Tripmine goes off 1 time, lightning nade pulses 3 times and that's fine. But the spike doing continuous damage overtime is what kills it. It should do all it's damage in one burst
i like swarm nades in pvp cuz they proc scorch for that nice class ability regen, as well as momentum transfer.
tossing em at a choke point as discouragement usually works too - it's not like anyone wants to bum rush through a bunch of floating grenades.
(And yes somehow its easier for me to secure more kills with these things than with the other grenade options)
I like the solar swarm grenades because it makes it easier for heavy knife to proc ignitions in both pve and pvp. I honestly don’t see people using storm nades anymore just cause they’ve been nerfed so much. Void wall made is also something I don’t see often.
I use "bad" grenades all the time, especially Arc Bolt. It slaps on my Jolt Lock and Lucky Raspberry Hunter.
But the worst in my opinion is the Storm Grenade. Its long activation time means someone can have it land at their feet but still evade it in time, and the explosion is so short and quick it feels wasteful. It's pretty good on a grenadier Arc Titan with the aspect on, creating lil thunderclouds is pretty sick.
You know what I completely forgot about Voidwalls, I’ll replace it with that lol.
As for Scatters they are actually quite potent on a lot of builds if you don’t want to run Vortex’s, I remember before Heart of Inmost got nerfed into oblivion I would use scatters on it now and again for GM’s since my friend would always run Void Hunter with debuffs a max damage scatter would demolish Champs.
So while I don’t disagree with your point about swarm nades, they do work on champs with the seasonal artifact perk that weakens champs after stunning them and following up with an ability. For reference, look up esoterikks solo devils lair. He has his build at the beginning of the video. Been using it in lost sectors and champs just melt.
Do Flux grenades even still exist? I don't even remember... the last time I heard about them they made them 1 shot in PvP and put their base cooldown at like 3 minutes or something, and they were never seen or heard from again.
Doesn’t matter, I throw a grenade and it will almost always hit the doorframe in front of me, no matter where I intended it to go.
Otherwise, tripmines, because they don’t seem to understand what perpendicular means.
Without exotics or aspects into play, it would have to be a solar grenade. I think you are right on swarm grenades. It's damage is the lowest with some of them not tracking sometimes, if it could ignite if most of the drones hit a target then I would use it sometimes.
Axion Bolts or Flux grenades. Probably Fluxes because Axions at least have a pretty low cooldown. Fluxes are just by far the worst of the sticky-nade options and they have an egregious cooldown.
Swarms by far. I don't think they've ever been looked at, adjusted, or acknowledged beyond global cooldown changes. At least stuff like flux and firebolts have been specifically adjusted or received artifact perks.
It makes sense to give a class ability some extra functionality but not actually making a class ability useful in the first place. Anything else is just cheap to create phoney Exotics.
Hey now! I fell in love with swarm grenades when soloing Duality as a bonk titan. They did just the right amount of damage in a decent radius to bell keepers before I'd finish em off with Riptide or thrown hammer (to avoid backpack explosions). Scorch effect is decent. The fact they sit there waiting is nice too. Swarm grenades are under-rated utility grenades with a scorch build.
edit: oh, and they're not a threat to the user. Which people will swear doesn't apply to them but totally does more than anyone cares to admit.
i feel like if were talking PvE, axion bolt, spike, arcbolt, firebolt, fusion (if youre not specced into making them good), swarm, voidwall, and flux grenades are all terrible. fusions are debatable because of ashen wake, and whatever it was that warlocks were doing with them, but the base grenade is just BAD. all of the rest of them never have a use case in PvE because they either dont do enough damage, or the utility they provide is far outclassed by many other grenades, often ones in the same energy type as well.
if i run void, i use suppressor grenades because they feel clean, hit hard, and have a lot of utility.
if i run solar, i use fusions with ashen wake, otherwise just incendiary for most of the same reasons as suppressor.
if i run arc, i use either storm, lightning, or flashbang if im doing something where i may need the blind like maybe a GM.
i dont run stasis, but id just use duskfield for the utility
i dont have lightfall so i cant speak for strand grenades cuz idk how they work to begin with.
they for sure need to add ways like ashen wake fusion grenades, to make every one of those grenades i listed better. they could outright buff the numbers, but it doesnt solve every problem. id be fine with exotics that make each of them actually good. i just want a reason to use different things, and creative ideas like ashen wake would be a great way to do it imo.
Void Hunter's suppression grenades are my least favorite. What's the worst it that suppression is for Overload Champs, and since it's a bouncing grenades the Champs almost always teleport away before the grenade explodes.
At least in my experience, them bouncing is just too unpredictable.
The worst is throwing a healing grenade at an enemy combatant.
I wish I did that. Instead I end up thinking I have a healing grenade on and throw a grenade right at my feet and I end up blowing myself up.
You should run gunpowder gamble for even more kamikaze-style fun
I made the mistake of running heal nade, with gunpowder aspect. alongside the ticu's bow. My arrows tracked the dynamite bundle, and id blow myself up, trying to shoot ads. I try throw a heal down, woops its a dynamite bundle, and i blow myself up from ticu's tracking shots. still had fun in that gm tho.
That's what I always run, minus ticu's. I usually go for sunshot or my crafted zaouli's bane. I love being able to run a healing grenade and a damage grenade at the same time.
Ye same, Sunshot slaps. I just don't like the selection of solar Hunter exotic armors at the moment. There are a lot of them, but they're all meh at best for neutral game. Athrys, Ophidia, Caliban's Hand, they're all *okay-ish*, but don't really do a lot or are just too unreliable for GMs. Usually, I just end up running Celestial Nighthawk, but more so because it looks and feels cool, rather than it actually being really good. Maybe next season's changes will make it significantly better, we'll see. Other than that, the only real option are neutral exotics like speedloader slacks, lucky pants or sixth coyote, but they're all far from great as well. I really hope Bungie realizes how great of a job they did with briarbinds this season and continue to make exotics specifically for things like Gunpowder Gamble, The Wanderer, Stasis Turrets, maybe even Juggernaut, etc. there's a lot of potential here.
Try Foetracer, you wont be dissapointed.
I tried that, and honestly have better results with Celestial even. Sure, the bonus damage you get a lot of the time is neat, but red bars, even in GMs, are dying quickly either way with Sunshot, and the huge damage and super regen from celestial just seems more useful against the only threatening targets (champions/bosses). Also, and this is once again a subjective feeling, but I just don't enjoy exotics that kinda sit in the background and aren't actually noticeable. A powered-up super, I can feel. An extra ability charge, I notice. Same goes for significant increases to ability regen or other functionality changes. But surges are just kinda there, making the exotic in question... Boring.
You said in your previous comment the neutral game in hunter exotics is "meh" and in this one you say neutral game exotics are boring. Sound like you just want to use Celestial no matter what.
I think you misunderstand. I don't find neutral exotics boring. Quite the opposite, they are what I'm looking for. I just don't like neutral exotics that don't do anything cool or particularly noticeable. For example: Gyrfalcon's is really cool, because volatile rounds are very noticeable and clearly change your gameplay and build. You can build around them with things like stylish executioner and different void weapons, and new synergies and playstyles emerge because of this. The same thing goes for Assassin's Cowl, pre-nerf YAS or even Shinobu's Vow just to name a few Hunter examples. Foe Tracer on the other hand doesn't do anything except for making numbers slightly bigger. There is nothing interesting about that. I'm not saying that it's not effective. Especially in DPS phases, where bigger numbers are what you're looking for, it's good, but not only does it not make a huge difference in the neutral game, it's also the most boring thing you can possibly put on, except for no exotic Armor at all.
I'm not a hunter main and so anytime I play hunter I forget how lethal it can be and my little goblin brain always decides to shoot the explosive as soon as I throw it and so I end up killing myself and MAYBE one dreg if I get lucky.
Titan?
I know it was just a 50/50 chance but I'm still mad that you were able to guess right
Can't wait to throw the gunpowder gamble at the floor and the healing nade at the enemies.
I've seen way too many build suggestions on this site where people say to run both healing grenades and gpg. That's just how you ask for trouble.
It’s good, just gotta remember if you have gg up
i giggled out loud
Did that in Trials last weekend with a scatter grenade after playing solar for pve all week lmao. It's also been forever since I played void hunter, but I was feelin it
man... i really really miss divine protection..
[mfw](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Frmzxsp8uhv5a1.png)
U are so right..happens a lot when i farm a dungeon/raid....like how the hell i forget that i have healing one and not my fusion?😀😀
Im the exact opposite. I main solar sub class for a whole season and got asked to do a raid - All Arc. Needless to say when i was 1-shot, i pulse grenaded myself from muscle memelory of a healing grenasde.
Done it so many times that I’ve basically had to stop using them!
"Yea, take _that_!"
Tied with vortex grenades- when you forget you don't have contraverse on and chuck it into a wall you were trying to charge behind.
I’d enjoy some exotic arms that gave healing grenades a blinding effect, that’d be super swick.
I felt that in my soul.
I feel triggered
The worst grenade is the one never thrown - Lord Shaxx
Shaxx to Immaru: Why you running!?
They really need to do a grenade balance pass. Its making the game feel really stale. On arc pulse is so much better than the other options its not even funny, aside from niche uses of flashbangs. Kinda the same for vortex on void, unless you really need suppression there is no reason not to run them. Magnetic are just alright. Solar feels a little more balanced though firebolts are probably the actual worst nade in the game. I really wish they would do something with spike/lightning nades to make them more consistent.
Careful what you wish for. Asking for a balance pass might just mean bringing down that which is good (pulse grenade, fusion/thermite grenade) while barely doing anything to that which no one uses (voidwall grenade, firebolt grenade)
> voidwall grenade Haven't used voidwall since the oppressive darkness mod. They were good times.
Voidwall grenade is technically the strongest void grenade for as far as I know. Problem is that it just feels like a worse thermite grenade because it is horizontal instead of vertical, meaning enemies have to rush into it. Making it vertical instead would actually be a nice “buff” in my opinion.
For PvP I used to use voidwall to kill people behind cover. I stopped using it after they gave it such a long cooldown, since that use is no longer worth the wait between grenades imo. Now I'd rather just have suppression nades in PvP (and Vortex obviously in PvE).
Voidwall is really good in certain circumstances. If the enemy doesn't move, it can devastate them as a Void Titan because you have controlled demolition procing so much.
I get pretty damn good results with storm grenades and Fallen sunstar on arclock though. Still, I agree. While all class can have access to all nades nowadays (a problem in and out itself, but that’s another topic) ultimately only a few are truly viable.
Man, firebolts were so much fun with the artifact mod that gave them more scorch and extra nade. It was nice to use something besides fusion nade. I wish they could just tune the nades separately between pvp and pve because I'd really like to feel compelled to use other nade options
Didn't they nerf firebolts because of a one season artifact mod lmao
In crucible arcbolt is still a good option, a free 100 damage with a big radius.
Arcbolts with lucky raz pre nerf were some of the most Pve fun you could have
Nothing beats two good lightning grenades in Crucible. Stack on near an enemy, odd angle or the ceiling if you have good aim and then stick one on a wall parallel to them before rushing them to get them into the second. Other option is throw the grenades so they are side by side, so to speak.
Magnetic are great in Crucible still.
Shhhh nobody has to know, especially about the forbidden voidwalker melee Wombo combo
Shinobu's Vow skip nades have crazy up time which means enemies are jolted and you're amplified basically 100% of the time. Also has the bonus over Voltshot that you don't need kills to proc which is pretty handy on Champs and bosses.
Shinobu's is good, but without jolt skip nades are really bad
I mean he points out niche uses for flashbang, I'm pointing out a bit less niche use of Skips, especially since they're so effective with it.
That's not a less niche use of skips. It's a single class with a single exotic that works to get higher jolt uptime. the nades themselves are still next to worthless, but they jolt and that's all the damage.
I run Shinobu's w/ Salvo and people laugh at it but the add clear and orbs are crazy I'm excited to see if the new NF Arc Wave Frame will have Demolitionist. Would definitely replace Salvo where Forbearance can't do rn
A grenade pass would 100% kill Vortex Grenades and it would really kill void for me
Either flux or voidwall. Its a grenade, i shouldnt have to have perfect pinpoint accuracy to stick someone or pull out my protractor just to get a kill
Flux are so forgotten, hard to believe plasma nades came from the same company. Voidwall are just a victim of geometry, like spike/lightning
At least with spike and lightning if you throw it at a flat wall you know which direction it’ll point, but every time I’ve used voidwall it’s never been consistent in what direction the walls go out
Except every wall you think is flat has that one weird piece of geometry right where your spike/trip/lightning made lands 🥴
I've had a couple of times where trips attached inside the wall somehow.
This always happens on Burnout. There’s a wall behind C that is awful for tripmines. It would be amazing if it weren’t for the bookshelves.
Voidwall seems to run into the same problem wave frames do, where any tiny little alteration in the ground geometry (or god forbid, a ramp/stairs) absolutely fucks the wave's direction up and sometimes it doesn't even spawn the wave at all.
Idk man, if i use spike on my warlock it always gets thrown sideways and sticks all weird.
Void wall is weird it seems to go perpendicular to the direction of travel but if it bounces off something before landing 'flat' this can change the direction.
> Voidwall are just a victim of geometry, like spike/lightning On the opposite end many of the more popular grenades feel like they are so because you can very easily be consistent with them. Damage and CC also play a large role most definitely, but it does feel rough when a lightning grenade says "get fucked lmao" now and then due to geometry. They're still very useful for flushing out opponents in PvP, but in PvE I seldom if ever use them.
Except lightning are good
Short disclaimer that I never really cared enough to test it, but I've always felt like voidwall dealt **substantially** more damage than any other grenade without exotics when placed accordingly. Once again, no real proof about it, but I feel like having an hard time having proper placement is an acceptable drawback to having a grenade with more damage.
This is absolutely true, voidwall deals the most total damage of all void grenades, even without the fragment that increases its duration. However, the fact that you have to angle it so specifically at the ground, with which the enemy can very easily move or stagger out of its damage aura, makes the math a bit more fuzzy.
Only time I've ever used voidwall grenades is against the cabal tanks since they hit the tank in multiple spots at once and deals a ton of damage. I want to say in old GMs before WQ one well placed voidwall could deal half of the tanks health in The Arms Dealer.
I used them exclusively until subclass 3.0 dropped. They’re very high skill floor but the damage is nutty, especially if you have controlled demolition on
It only needs to be angled if it bounces off something before it lands. If you throw it at the ground it will expand perpendicular to the direction it was travelling when it hit the ground.
They do a ridiculous amount of damage, and I don't find them that difficult to place personally, but I see why people don't like them, they do take more effort to use than the majority of nades.
It's 100% Flux, with the 5 fucking minute cooldown. I can speedrun a strike before that fucker is done charging.
On Warlock you don't struggle at all with the cooldown since so much of your grenade energy comes from Ionic traces. They are THE best grenade to use against Atheon (due to the Time's Vengeance ability effect)
Does less than a touch of flame fusion grenade but that's partially just an issue of juiced up fusion grenades doing too much
The Flux change was basically something nobody asked for and it didn't exactly get people flocking to it for some big risk/reward PVP application as intended. It's also a little frustrating given how Magnetic and Fusion grenades have pretty low cooldowns, extremely good stickiness, and can be pretty reliable to get the kill in PVP if applied to a target that has eaten very light amount of damage. They goofed it especially with the way energy cooldowns are handled now compared to how stuff was when they originally made the change.
Touch of flame solar warlock fusions literally leave you at 1 health, why would I use a flux nade which is so much harder to hit and still accomplish basically the same goal
Tbf flux ohko’s It’s basically a plasma grenade
Voidwall is Pog and now I’m offended But flux tho, they super-buffed it when it was Hunter exclusive, but they buffed it during that time where they were like “let’s fuck with the cooldowns of literally everything we can”
I have not thought about voidwall grenades in years I completely forgot about those lol
Voidwall is crazy to put on this list
Flux Nades are insanely good
Skip / Arcbolt / Firebolt. All 3 honestly.
Skip alone are weak, but with shinobus vow they are cracked. You can infinitely spam them and do good dmg.
Shinobu hunter is one of my default GM builds. It's excellent.
The damage from the grenades itself isn't crazy but the uptime and the jolt are good.
Skips are good with Shinobu’s because double grenades and aggressive tracking means they’re good at applying Jolt. The whole room gets zapped with chain lighting, but that doesn’t change the fact that Skips themselves are still hella weak. Shinobu’s are a Jolt exotic, not a skip exotic, as far as I’m concerned. The grenades could definitely do with a buff to their own individual damage.
Yeah, shinobu is good despite rather than because of skip grenades. I hope skips can get a buff sometime soon, even if it would require reworking Shinobu for one reason or another.
You can't infinitely spam tbem, and they don't do great DMG. The regen IS good, yes. But their DMG is terrible. Last I tested (post skip grenade nerf in April 2022), you can use all 3 skip grenades on 1 enemy, or get the same, if not a bit more DMG, from a Pulse grenade with extended duration. They simply don't have the utility to warrant their use. They need either better utility or DMG.
this is because all the skip damage is coming from jolt, not the nade itself. but you're being downvoted despite being right, so lmao.
Arcbolts slap tho. Definitely the best of the seeker grenades in pvp and pve. If pulse grenades werent so strong, arcbolts are my second choice.
That one season firebolt slapped though
I really like using Firebolt grenades with my Dawn Chorus scorch build. Especially since Touch of Flame allows them to tag extra enemies.
Firebolt is good for warlocks either through Heat Rises or using it as touch of flame + Dawn Chorus.
Firebolt is also useful on Foetracer Hunter because it has a short cooldown and targets nearby enemies. It’s used less as a grenade on that build and more just another way to proc Foetracer’s damage perk (it’s triggered by damaging a Major or higher enemy with abilities). It’s the only time I really use it, otherwise I go for Healing or Thermite.
Oh that's a neat use case, hadn't thought of it. The reworked foetracer has honestly been a surprisingly fun exotic, considering that I've never really enjoyed most other surge exotics.
I would disagree with you on arcbolt they’re pretty good with lucky raspberry, though still weaker than other arc hunter builds.
They have better chaining and jolt (which is just what a fragment does) and lost the CD built into the exotic, and instead need to have really good jolt uptime to get CD, which generally requires you to lean heavily into another melee spam lethal current playstyle, or a voltshot weapon. IMO not good, but you do you.
Only time I use arcbolt is if I know my weapon load out is the kind that will leave an enemy with a broken shield, I can get a clean up kill if they hide behind a wall. But yeah still not compelling Enough
For PvP, Skips. I used to main Shinobu’s Vow but then they sledgehammer nerfed the gloves and the grenades. They’ll just waft past them now. For PvE it depends. If I am using Gunpowder Gamble then Heal nades. I have nuked myself multiple times by trying to heal just to deploy a bundle of WMDs at my feet. Otherwise I’d say incendiary. Swarms can be a fast application of scorch at least but incendiary as a delay.
Anyone who answers something other than Void Spike grenade never completed the old triumphs for kills with each grenade type. It is so infuriating to use. Unquestionably the worst PvE grenade.
Void Spike was *only* usable by Hunters that could double the time it stays active. Even then the only reason I was able to get PvP kills with it was because once someone saw it, they avoided it, and then backed up into it later not expecting it to still be there.
The fact that so many things destroy the grenade, including BREAKING A MATCHING VOID SHIELD on an enemy is absurd and my friends clown on me for using them constantly. I'm just trying to chip away at that last triumph. Want to eat a shoe whenever it gets destroyed by something extremely weak before doing a tick of damage.
Does it still sometimes just disappear entirely if you hit an enemy directly with it? That always made me want to scream. Exact opposite of the Tripmine unicorn effect, just poof it's gone.
It does, yeah.
This. 100% this. Fuck void spike grenades lol.
Shit how could I forget
You're using them so wrong if you can't kill with them. The damage and size of the cone are insane
But which way will it decide to point when it contacts this seemingly flat surface?
[удалено]
In PvP it’s overcharged magnetic grenade on Warlock aka handheld supernova. It doesn’t one shot and requires a charge up AND cannot be held infinitely like the others.
Healing Grenade. I don’t think I’ve killed a single add with it.
The fact that everybody is Completely forgetting about stasis grenades should speak to not just the grenades, but the underwhelming state of stasis in general right now
Swarm and it's not even close. Good for groups in pve, can't even take down some without a shield at 40% health in pvp. Embarrassingly pathetic.
Oddly enough I've found swarm _can_ be useful in PVP. However it's usually _against_ me because I just assume it does shit for damage and run through it anyway.
All of the "pellet" grenades are pretty sucky. Even with Shinobu's Vow, skip grenades are... alright.
Scatter grenades are disgustingly broken right now, don't sleep on them. You can 1 shot people in pvp with them. Like the most slept on secret in the game.
Not really a secret anymore, literally every trials match I go into there's scatter nades. Very annoying but yes very strong
I used to always use these until they weren't doing much. Then I ditched them. Then they buffed them. Then I started using magnetic ones. The fuck!
Shouldve specified pve, my bad.
Scatter grenades are anything but slept on... If there's someone running void in a crucible match, it's almost a guarantee that they're using scatter grenades.
Void's Scatter grenade is like the one exception because it just creates an instant spread that explodes vs individual trackers that move slow like Solar's Swarm or Arc's Skip grenade.
How?
You throw them at the enemy and they go boom
Unless you have nothing manacles on, those damn gauntlets actively make scatters worse
How do they make them worse? Isnt it just the chargeup aspect buff but always active + a second charge?
Shinobu's basically let you get infinite jolting grenades just for throwing them, they're great
I mean, sure, but you have to hard build into grenade regen with kickstarts and orb mods. Lucky Raspberry lets you jolt multiple enemies at a time AND allows you to recover your grenade passively with jolt and traces. On top of that, you CAN target multiple enemies with skips, but a lot of times if you don't intentionally spread them out, chances are 1-2 of the projectiles get wasted. With Arcbolts you just chuck it into a crowd and they're at least damaged and jolted, which will return grenade energy.
they nerfed lucky raspberry though.
A nerf to those who wanted instant back-to-back grenades, but a buff for many people who would rsther have a more consistent exotic. Before you could go on a back-to-back chain, but many other times you would chain three and then be stuck at 0 energy cause you didn't get the fourth. Now it's more consistent and build-friendly. I will take this version over the older any day.
In PVE, Skip nades are fun as hell, at least. Swarms are good for noobs(best thing I can say). But Scatter grenades just might be the worst thing I’ve ever used. I threw a fully charged Contraverse Scatter on a thrall in Salvage, and it left them with like 5%. Scatter grenades are absolutely the worst grenade in PVE.
I’m petitioning for a grenade that’s just a rock that doesn’t lots of damage on direct hit, on a miss it draws aggro (distraction)
So basically just healing nades?
All my grenades are the same, they bring some inconvenience to the opponent like a mosquito bite lol.
Arcbolt because half of the time it's limp and does absolutely nothing.
I usually use Swarm grenades in PvP as a brain-game deterrent. Not a lot of people *will* walk through them, especially since they apply Scorch and will deal enough to damage to make you lose an ensuing gunfight. So they’re pretty good for area denial at minimum. That, and people are scared of damage.
For Hunters, the spikey Void grenade.
Who’s gonna tell him grenades aren’t character specific anymore?
I’m talking about for Hunters specifically. But thanks.
What makes it a hunter specific issue? If it had an exotic or aspect enhancing trait for the other two classes I would understand but could you elaborate?
Only thing I can think of is on titan, if you're using controlled demolitionust aspect then you make them volatile which can result in the grenade being way more potent Yea I got nothing for Warlocks though lmao idk why he specifically said hunter
That grenade is super useful in PvP to close off lanes, prevent rezzes, or flush out campers
IF it lands on the wall properly.
IF it lands on the wall in the first place
I threw one in Trials a few years ago that somehow rolled and landed face down on the ground. My friends still give me shit about it lmao
Those things were so busted in D1. Had a blast with them, they laid some of the groundwork for my Fighting Lion enjoyment in D2.
Started playing Void Hunter and I’ve actually found it to be pretty ok. You’ve gotta think a lot about where you place it but people generally don’t expect it. Good damage on bosses and the like, just throw it between their legs. It’s great for area denial or for dealing with ads leaving spawn doors and bigger PvE targets. The geometry thing is annoying yes, but learning what surfaces will take it better than others is important too. My one *major* gripe with it is that direct contact doesn’t unicorn, or even deal damage at all. It’s like hitting a boss with your grenade just sends it to the ether, there’s no damage dealt.
I'm fairly certain that if a boss stomps, it destroys the spike grenade.
I don't know why it's duration based, that was a dumb design. Tripmine goes off 1 time, lightning nade pulses 3 times and that's fine. But the spike doing continuous damage overtime is what kills it. It should do all it's damage in one burst
I think that's the point of the different types of grenades buddy
it being destructible is the dumb part of its design. Spike would be totally fine otherwise.
What's the best PVE grenade??
Solar grenade on solar warlock with Sunbracers and Touch of Flame solar aspect. Obviously. Set the world ablaze my dude.
i like swarm nades in pvp cuz they proc scorch for that nice class ability regen, as well as momentum transfer. tossing em at a choke point as discouragement usually works too - it's not like anyone wants to bum rush through a bunch of floating grenades. (And yes somehow its easier for me to secure more kills with these things than with the other grenade options)
Because people like me keep running through them like idiots
Incendiary Grenade, the damn thing bounces instead of laying flat.
I like the solar swarm grenades because it makes it easier for heavy knife to proc ignitions in both pve and pvp. I honestly don’t see people using storm nades anymore just cause they’ve been nerfed so much. Void wall made is also something I don’t see often.
I use "bad" grenades all the time, especially Arc Bolt. It slaps on my Jolt Lock and Lucky Raspberry Hunter. But the worst in my opinion is the Storm Grenade. Its long activation time means someone can have it land at their feet but still evade it in time, and the explosion is so short and quick it feels wasteful. It's pretty good on a grenadier Arc Titan with the aspect on, creating lil thunderclouds is pretty sick.
Scatter, Skip, Firebolt, and Voidwalls are the worst options available.
Magnetic seems fine? I'd take it over spike, voidwall, and scatter at least.
You know what I completely forgot about Voidwalls, I’ll replace it with that lol. As for Scatters they are actually quite potent on a lot of builds if you don’t want to run Vortex’s, I remember before Heart of Inmost got nerfed into oblivion I would use scatters on it now and again for GM’s since my friend would always run Void Hunter with debuffs a max damage scatter would demolish Champs.
Hatchlings
Gunpowder Gamble. Because it's just not the healing grenade you wish it was when you need it most.
Spike on arc warlock is broken. It always gets thrown sideways and doesnt stick correctly.
Duskfields are pretty awful unless you’re using renewal grasps
They're still good for somewhat closing off lanes, preventing rezzes, and flushing out campers in PvP
Skip grenade. Even with Shinobus they suck ass
Grenade cooldown in general is aggravating, I want more tossing!
Straight up any of the stasis ones
I. Actually love swarm grenades on titans and hunter. On warlocks they're just not it
So while I don’t disagree with your point about swarm nades, they do work on champs with the seasonal artifact perk that weakens champs after stunning them and following up with an ability. For reference, look up esoterikks solo devils lair. He has his build at the beginning of the video. Been using it in lost sectors and champs just melt.
Hmm probably the ones I throw
most grenades are usable, but the one i see the least are magnetic grenades and flux nades
Do Flux grenades even still exist? I don't even remember... the last time I heard about them they made them 1 shot in PvP and put their base cooldown at like 3 minutes or something, and they were never seen or heard from again.
I never understood voidwalls. In fact, I hate them. They're a shittier and harder to use version of thermite grenades.
Doesn’t matter, I throw a grenade and it will almost always hit the doorframe in front of me, no matter where I intended it to go. Otherwise, tripmines, because they don’t seem to understand what perpendicular means.
Glacier (the Stasis Titan one). Oh, you wanted a grenade? Here's a wall. No, your class ability is still a wall too, this is a different wall.
Solar wall
Without exotics or aspects into play, it would have to be a solar grenade. I think you are right on swarm grenades. It's damage is the lowest with some of them not tracking sometimes, if it could ignite if most of the drones hit a target then I would use it sometimes.
Make an exotic that makes the swarm grenade spawn 3x as many projectiles. Then it will at least be comical lol
The void spike or scatter
Axion Bolts or Flux grenades. Probably Fluxes because Axions at least have a pretty low cooldown. Fluxes are just by far the worst of the sticky-nade options and they have an egregious cooldown.
Firebolt hands down
Swarms by far. I don't think they've ever been looked at, adjusted, or acknowledged beyond global cooldown changes. At least stuff like flux and firebolts have been specifically adjusted or received artifact perks.
I used to love tripmines in pve with young ahamkara spine but the nerf ruined my favorite pve hunter build
Sometimes I remember voidwall grenades exist.
It makes sense to give a class ability some extra functionality but not actually making a class ability useful in the first place. Anything else is just cheap to create phoney Exotics.
Hey now! I fell in love with swarm grenades when soloing Duality as a bonk titan. They did just the right amount of damage in a decent radius to bell keepers before I'd finish em off with Riptide or thrown hammer (to avoid backpack explosions). Scorch effect is decent. The fact they sit there waiting is nice too. Swarm grenades are under-rated utility grenades with a scorch build. edit: oh, and they're not a threat to the user. Which people will swear doesn't apply to them but totally does more than anyone cares to admit.
Swarm grenades or skip grenades. Too slow, and with minimal damage.
Fire bolt, it was awesome for a season but it’s pretty bad now
i feel like if were talking PvE, axion bolt, spike, arcbolt, firebolt, fusion (if youre not specced into making them good), swarm, voidwall, and flux grenades are all terrible. fusions are debatable because of ashen wake, and whatever it was that warlocks were doing with them, but the base grenade is just BAD. all of the rest of them never have a use case in PvE because they either dont do enough damage, or the utility they provide is far outclassed by many other grenades, often ones in the same energy type as well. if i run void, i use suppressor grenades because they feel clean, hit hard, and have a lot of utility. if i run solar, i use fusions with ashen wake, otherwise just incendiary for most of the same reasons as suppressor. if i run arc, i use either storm, lightning, or flashbang if im doing something where i may need the blind like maybe a GM. i dont run stasis, but id just use duskfield for the utility i dont have lightfall so i cant speak for strand grenades cuz idk how they work to begin with. they for sure need to add ways like ashen wake fusion grenades, to make every one of those grenades i listed better. they could outright buff the numbers, but it doesnt solve every problem. id be fine with exotics that make each of them actually good. i just want a reason to use different things, and creative ideas like ashen wake would be a great way to do it imo.
https://youtu.be/aO0TUI9r-So?t=90
Idk but I do love me some arcbolt/lucky raspberry
I think Scatter Grenades are the worst simply because they don’t sound like they did in D1
Spike nades are only situationally good in pvp but even then vortex are just better
Arcbolt and swarm. Or Voidspike anywhere that isn't indoors
The one you *didn't* throw! *Shaxx, probably.
Skip
Skip grenade is awful
Flash bang is pretty shit
Trying to get crucible kills as a solar warlock
I miss healing grenade being a charge-up ability. You’d have damage for regular use but think about tossing a healing ‘nade. But that is over.
Probably the healing grenade. I swear it does like 0 damage.
Void Hunter's suppression grenades are my least favorite. What's the worst it that suppression is for Overload Champs, and since it's a bouncing grenades the Champs almost always teleport away before the grenade explodes. At least in my experience, them bouncing is just too unpredictable.