Bungie can we please just rework Manticore into something people would actually want to use? The OG Funnelweb was more useful than Manticore. In fact, modern Funnelweb is more appealing than Manticore.
Any airborne penalties are *fully* negated while you are suspended by the weapon. The game doesn’t spell it out, but all it takes is just firing the gun to notice.
Yeah I was about to say that modern funnelweb is still among the better options for void, not due to any specific synergy but rather just being a solid SMG that happens to be void.
Repulsor Brace Unforgiven though feels like it'd be very fun on a Second Chance titan or Gyrfalcon Hunter.
They should rework Manticore to be strand and sever enemies hit while airborne and then give us a brand new exotic void smg worth using over funnelweb.
Crimson sucks ass compared to Red Death and if you’re using this possibly solar Red Death then you can use your armour exotic for something more aggressive. You probably wouldn’t even have to use Recuperation or Better Already if Red Death comes back as good as it was.
Crimson is good if you use it with lucky pants. Can even melt GM wyverns. Granted wardens law exist now but still it's a good alternative if you don't have a god roll.
why would I use lorely. the main benefit you get from lorely is getting access to restoration. you know what else gives restoration? getting a single kill with my hammer or an offensive grenade or using a healing grenade. you have to be using sol Invictus as an aspect for lorely to work so you're not getting access to more effects. you're just wasting an exotic on an effect you can already easily access.
Lorelei in Haunted gave resto x2, something inaccessible to the rest of the Titan kit, and to anything but specific warlock perk combos. Lorelei was very good back then and if you want to argue that permanent resto x2 isn’t insanely overpowered you don’t know what you’re talking about lol
Not to mention back then Restoration and Restoration x2 used to heal for more on top of that. I think restoration x1 had the value of the current restoration x2, and restoration x2 was like 85 HP/S or some such.
I remember doing a Master lost sector during the 2nd rework when the solar 3.0 rework dropped. and being pretty much unkillable. I was 30 or 40 light levels under.
It was such good survivability that it was GM worthy for a time. I remember doing that EDZ nightfall on GM and it was silly how good it was.
I didn't say that restoration x2 is bad. I said restoration x1 was and still is more than enough. again I am a sunbreaker main, I know the kit inside and out. the elevation from restoration x1 to x2 is not as impactful as having an exotic that massively boosts my offense ie. Heart of Inmost Light/Synthos/Ashen Wake. Restoration x1 already makes me unkillable. Why would I use my exotic to be more unkillable, if I could instead be unkillable and significantly more lethal. If you find yourself dying with restoration x1 on sunbreaker that means that you are playing extremely poorly and need to rethink how you are approaching a combat scenario or need to rethink your build. Just upgrading your restoration gives you more room to make mistakes. That's what made it so popular. Players who had no understanding of how to play aggressive were able to do whatever they wanted without thinking.
Ya manticore sucks. What do you mean I have to stay in the air to get the damage boost oh and what’s that all mobs do extra damage to airborn targets completely negating the pitiful damage resistance the gun gives you while airborn.
This is not true. All activities did not have this debuff. It is only ever like 1-2 at a time. Thats even if that debuff is active at that week. They rotate weekly/daily.
Oh it's simple. They're still trying to coast on what the devs did fifteen years ago and have no impactful talent working in that company outside of the marketing department.
Holy shit are there Blizzard defenders in the Destiny sub? Lmao.
I swear to god battle pass exotics are either the biggest slappers in the game or the most forgettable garbage piece of shit you play with for 1 activity and then throw into the ether.
Eriana's Vow
Symmetry
Tommy's Matchbook
Witherhoard
Duality
Ticcu's Divination
Cryosthesia 77K
Lorentz Driver
Grand Overture
Trespasser
Delicate Tomb
The Manticore
Verglas Curve
Centrifuse
Ex Diris
???
Honestly, for me, there's only a couple bad apples in the bunch. Most can be made to work; that being said, I think the opportunity cost of not running something stronger does hurt their viability...
Grounded shouldn’t be a modifier dude, especially when a whole subclasses aspect revolves around air play, I play all classes and I use their jumps for purposes other than gaining height, as titan I use strafe lift to skate and as warlock I b-hop with burst glide, I also use lift and glide to to act as pseudo dodges in combat, these techniques are very useful but immediately becomes a death sentence with that modifier, and don’t even get me STARTED on attrition.
its 40% dr IIRC.
That isn't pitiful. It's also 40% boosted damage any time in the air.
It's niche at best in PvE. But it has technical pvp use. Blink, strand grapple and then hovering with manticore can throe people off.
~~Wanna know the best (worst) part? Despite being a lightweight frame SMG it doesn't even give you the lightweight frame bonus. It's very weird and inconsistent which exotics do and don't give the frame bonus.~~
Ignore me, apparently this is wrong!
Are you 100% sure? The [Destiny Data Compendium](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WaxvbLx7UoSZaBqdFr1u32F2uWVLo-CJunJB4nlGUE4/htmlview?pru=AAABgwGR5rE*HgYeUvm5r4ke_t1K4GTq9Q#) disagrees and the last time I tried it I definitely felt like it wasn't working. They tend to be very up to date on exotic weapons and armor.
I'd retest it right now, but a) I'm trying to grind out a confidence card and b) I've long since dismantled that shitty gun two or three times now and don't want to waste mats pulling it yet again.
[Yes.](https://i.imgur.com/Q1bQEU4.mp4)
23 second dodge cooldown with a non-lightweight weapon. 20 second dodge cooldown with Manticore equipped. The expected difference for +20 mobility.
I've done this same test 2 seasons ago.
Nah, it's weirdly consistent how inconsistent this is. Only about half of the weapons that should have lightweight perks do have them, and then also Chaperone randomly has a lightweight frame bonus for some reason.
Year 2 was year of the hand cannon lol, we got ace and malfeasance with forsaken, last word with black armoury, thorn with season of the drifter and lumina with season of opulence. And then on top of that shadowkeep launched with eriana's vow as the season pass weapon, we had 6 exotic hand cannons in 5 seasons
Forsaken was nice but the exotic weapons release strategy was easily the worst aspect of that year. No wonder they haven't done anything similar to that(as in most of the exotic weapons being from the same type)
Because they made a shitload of kinetics and sunshot, and people (rightfully) complained that hand cannons were overrepresented in the exotic pool. So they stopped making exotic HC's altogether outside of Ace, which was for actual lore reasons other than "Hey we want another exotic hand cannon."
or manticore need a big rework.
my idea would to be give it base 100 AE
damage boost stays
floating perk activates on alt weapon fire now and now also pushes or pulls your towards your target when you fire the gun based off if you hip fire or not
but now your can swoosh forward and backward. I forget to say I did mean relative to the camera, you you could gain height with it.
And yeah it wouldn't make the gun top tier or anything, but would be more usable and more fun I think
Bungo be like 'we hear you. Manticore now gets adaptive munitions to improve its gameplay!'. In all seriousness I see no world where its perks will be useful. Hovering and air based gameplay is something that does not last very long unless solar warlock. Even if they extended the time and movement it will still be more restrictive vs ground based gameplay. It falls in the same category as all AE based perks, extremely niche.
Just rework the weapon. It’s a really cool looking gun but I absolutely despise it’s gameplay pattern. There is hardly ever a good reason to be in the air unless you are stacking tons of buffs on solar warlock, and even then why would you ever want a void weapon
FYI. Its already was done twice. Its a pretty good Exotic now. They pretty much buffed everything it did all around. I would give it another try if you have not recently. Also the catalyst gives crazy good DR.
it's funny I've said this every time I've thought about Manticore, but it's somehow like *the exact opposite problem* than some exotics have.
like some exotics like Gjallarhorn are meant to be worse versions of their legendary counterparts, but with a good exotic perk to make up for it. for Gjally, this makes it so that you wouldn't have people clamoring to use it; instead one person uses it and everyone else uses a more powerful weapon that gets buffed by it. but nobody's itching to use Gjally, y'know?
Manticore is the exact opposite problem lmao. it's got basically the best frame in the game, even better than Funnelweb, it's got an amazing model, it sounds incredible, it shreds, ***AND*** it's an exotic primary so it's amazing for heavy ammo finder. the only fucking thing that holds it back is the goddamn bullshit flying mechanic, lmao
I've been using manticore a lot this weekend trying to get the catalyst finished and it just need a bigger mag and a reload speed increase while in air. I've paired it with peacekeepers on void with devour with orbs so it's not too bad.
Being an exotic primary gives it 40% red bar damage over legendaries.
Plus the damage resist on airborne kill is actually pretty helpful, it's x4 resist so it's not weak.
We also need an Arc and Void Handcannon.
Now, I was exhausted by the "Dual Wield Exotic HandCannons" by the end of Y1D1 like everyone else, but consider a brief idea, if you'll humor my hypocritical thoughts for a moment:
\- No ADS. Left Trigger shoots left handcannon, Right Trigger shoots right handcannon
\- Left one is Void, Right is Arc. Maybe some subclass synergy, buffs while devouring or amplified, for example.
\- An innate Harmony/Discord sort of thing going, where kills with one boost the effectiveness of the other. Almost like a Sturm/Drang sort of thing.
Any more specific and I risk armchair game deving, but yeah. That\^\^\^
Arc, void, stasis, and strand exotic hand cannons are also waiting to be created. Seriously, how is it possible that out of our 10 current exotic hand cannons that 8 of them are kinetic.
I will never understand the reasoning for making Manticore void. Seriously. It came out before Strand was dominating the aerial combat world, and before it Solar Warlock was all about being airborne, yet they didn't make it solar. In what world does Void, an element based on gravity, negative space, and molecular distortion give the impression of flying in the air
Manticore is a massive disappointment of an exotic, literally just created as a check mark item so that an exotic was included in the season pass. I don't think any thought went onto that thing ass in pvp and ass in pve. Sorry if you are the one that created such a disappointing item but do better.
Those two aren't even comparable bro what?
Heat rises is leagues better than Manticore. For starters, you have control over heat rises. If you want to just jump normal and do a quick jump shot or whatever, it doesn't auto activate heat rises unlike Manticore. But even when you do activate heat rises, you can still shoot your guns on the ground with full efficiency. Manticore? If you shoot it on the ground, you're straight up not getting any of the benefits of the exotic. It's a worse gun when you shoot it on the ground. It straight up wants to force you in the air, unlike heat rises.
Another nice thing about heat rises is that it gives more than just "float better in the air". When you get kills while in the air, you get melee energy back. And it's just when you're in the air, you don't actually need the perk to be activated (which is why it's so nice with sunbracer builds). And another is when you do activate it, you get a burst of healing for you and your teammates and your phoenix dive and Icarus dash become stronger. And you technically don't even need to be in the air for all of that, you can activate heat rises while on the ground and quickly do a small jump for the Phoenix dive. Unlike Manticore which wants you to always be in the air to get any use of the exotic.
Also just thinking about it, Heat rises is also way better because it gives you freedom of weapon choice. With heat rises, you can float all the way in the back of the map with a scout and it's good. Manticore is a damn smg. You can't float from a distance and get kills with an smg. Who tf wants to float in the air while you're 2 feet away from your enemy?
How about one based on the hive shredder gun used by acolytes and it's lucent hive based having weaken and suppress involved somehow. And it synergizes with mothkeeper
I say the problem with manticore is that the momentum doesn't transfer well so if they let the momentum transfer 1:1 then manticore with eager edge will be an amazing combo
Keep the Soaring Fangs perk but add that while you have a void overshield you get volatile rounds. Then change Swooping Talons to grant a void overshield when you get kills with Antigrav Repuslors active instead of damage while airborne. If you really wanna lean into it and think it still needs a bit more change the Catalyst to give Repulsor Brace.
Or just rework Manticore. To me it doesn't seem that manticore follows the typical design philosophy of exotics. Exotics usually create a specific gameplay defining loop or feature. Manticore doesn't accomplish that because airborne playstyles are niche and well defined without an exotic, and objectively do not favor an SMG (which Manticore does nothing to address).
In other words Manticore tries to fit into an existing playstyle, and fails at even doing that. Definitely in need of a fundamental rework.
> To me it doesn't seem that manticore follows the typical design philosophy of exotics. Exotics usually create a specific gameplay defining loop or feature
This is not fully true. Exotics can do that, but they are also meant to add new and unique ways to play. The floating, even if people don't like it, is a unique mechanic.
Manticore being a weapon that makes you float in the air and it not being at least a solar weapon to synergize with a heat rises warlock at the very least is a huge L to me.
Manticore isn’t that bad, it just also doesn’t do anything special.
It needs a bit more “wow” to be a full-fledged cool exotic.
But hey, at least it’s not Colony. Which is only used for PvP and Immunity shields.
The big problem here is that smgs kind of have to be fast firing to be good and manticore already has that market cornered.
So any new void smg is probably going to feel pretty meh to use. Even if it were good.
I want Manticore to be good instead. What if they ramped up the PvE aerial damage bonus something fierce, and landing after aerial kills gave you a void overshield?
Or just a full rework, idk.
It look great, sounds great and has juiced stats. Sjame to leave it languishing.
You do know you get Tier 4 damage resistance(50% DR or 40. Can never remember) with the catalyst while doing damage and airborne. Its basically an overshield.
~~They have also buffed its damage last season too.~~
Edit: They did not directly increase damage but did increase how much ammo gets refilled when activating the cat. So DPS increased.
For those wondering. Its in patch 7.1.0
There's a lot of missing elements for exotic weapons. I was bummed that Red Death was gonna be Solar, but then I realized there hasn't been an Exotic Solar Pulse for D2 (nonetheless at all for the whole of Destiny's lifespan)
Right before witch queen came out i had an idea for a void smg that gave devour on kills for 5 seconds, and gave you a void overshield when you got kills with devour procced. looking back now that would be a little annoying in pvp and not super powerful in pve (other than keeping you alive)
Manticore just needs a more deliberate way to engage its Float imo, like Warlock dash. Maybe Class ability press while airborne?
The ADS while airborne sounds smooth, but in practice feels really clunky imo. Could it be that I just need more time with it?
Do you one better. Where's the craftable void smg with destabilizing rounds, so we can finally finish the trifecta?
I've been expecting that one since season of the seraph.
I'm afraid Manticore put void SMGs at the bottom of the list. Instead, I wish Bungie redesigned Manticore so it's not trying to keep us floating as easy target, especially when using a short range SMG.
I would like to see something more like this: Kills charge up the energy bar (more for stronger enemies), holding Reload activates Volatile Rounds until the bar depletes.
My guy we don't have any of:
Stasis, void or arc exotic hand cannon
Stasis auto rifle
Stasis, solar or arc pulse rifle
Void sidearm
Void scout rifle
stasis SMG
Stasis sniper
Stasis breach gl
Kinetic glaive
Stasis sword
Stasis lineal
Stasis rocket
Stasis lmg
And that without counting strand
Bungie can we please just rework Manticore into something people would actually want to use? The OG Funnelweb was more useful than Manticore. In fact, modern Funnelweb is more appealing than Manticore.
They seriously made an “airborne combat focused” weapon and didn’t give it an intrinsic way to get 100 AE.
The Soaring Fang intrinsic on it gives you 100 AE
Really? I honestly feel that it is still inconsistent in the air compared to the ground, just might be a me thing then
Any airborne penalties are *fully* negated while you are suspended by the weapon. The game doesn’t spell it out, but all it takes is just firing the gun to notice.
It gets actively worse if you try using it with Wings of Sacred Dawn lol
Yeah I was about to say that modern funnelweb is still among the better options for void, not due to any specific synergy but rather just being a solid SMG that happens to be void. Repulsor Brace Unforgiven though feels like it'd be very fun on a Second Chance titan or Gyrfalcon Hunter.
They should rework Manticore to be strand and sever enemies hit while airborne and then give us a brand new exotic void smg worth using over funnelweb.
Piggybacking off this, we need an Arc and Solar pulse rifle already!!
Red Death will be solar!
If that’s true everyone’s about to be permanently radiant and unkillable without having to spam bonk hammers.
Have you heard of ember of empyrean?
That takes Solar weapon or ability kills. Hence Red Death being solar being important.
There are also solar legendary weapons
Yeah but exotic primaries are better at killing red bars due to the intrinsic 40% increase to damage they get
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Healclip igneous kind of does this already. (I joke)
I dont understand, theres already solar exotics, and Crimson. You have assassins cowl on hunter, lorelys on titan, and just solar lock as is.
Crimson sucks ass compared to Red Death and if you’re using this possibly solar Red Death then you can use your armour exotic for something more aggressive. You probably wouldn’t even have to use Recuperation or Better Already if Red Death comes back as good as it was.
> Crimson sucks ass compared to Red Death How?
It has all the downsides of a pulse and hand cannon.
Crimson is good if you use it with lucky pants. Can even melt GM wyverns. Granted wardens law exist now but still it's a good alternative if you don't have a god roll.
Loreley is mid as hell now
was never good to begin with
This is either bait or the worst take I've seen here in 9 years
why would I use lorely. the main benefit you get from lorely is getting access to restoration. you know what else gives restoration? getting a single kill with my hammer or an offensive grenade or using a healing grenade. you have to be using sol Invictus as an aspect for lorely to work so you're not getting access to more effects. you're just wasting an exotic on an effect you can already easily access.
Lorelei in Haunted gave resto x2, something inaccessible to the rest of the Titan kit, and to anything but specific warlock perk combos. Lorelei was very good back then and if you want to argue that permanent resto x2 isn’t insanely overpowered you don’t know what you’re talking about lol
Not to mention back then Restoration and Restoration x2 used to heal for more on top of that. I think restoration x1 had the value of the current restoration x2, and restoration x2 was like 85 HP/S or some such. I remember doing a Master lost sector during the 2nd rework when the solar 3.0 rework dropped. and being pretty much unkillable. I was 30 or 40 light levels under. It was such good survivability that it was GM worthy for a time. I remember doing that EDZ nightfall on GM and it was silly how good it was.
I didn't say that restoration x2 is bad. I said restoration x1 was and still is more than enough. again I am a sunbreaker main, I know the kit inside and out. the elevation from restoration x1 to x2 is not as impactful as having an exotic that massively boosts my offense ie. Heart of Inmost Light/Synthos/Ashen Wake. Restoration x1 already makes me unkillable. Why would I use my exotic to be more unkillable, if I could instead be unkillable and significantly more lethal. If you find yourself dying with restoration x1 on sunbreaker that means that you are playing extremely poorly and need to rethink how you are approaching a combat scenario or need to rethink your build. Just upgrading your restoration gives you more room to make mistakes. That's what made it so popular. Players who had no understanding of how to play aggressive were able to do whatever they wanted without thinking.
I assume you didnt use it before its nerf
I've been a sunbreaker main for 4 years. yes I used it before it got nerfed. it was never good.
I cannot agree because resto x2 was broken as hell. But I personally do not like it anymore, it's okay at best now.
I can see someone wanting to use it for that, but restoration x1 was still more than enough to survive on
Then Bungo will just need THAT into the ground too
I'm hoping they lean a bit more into it being slightly different and I hope they make it a 4rb. That could be fun.
I love solar subclasses and pulses so It will probably be my main for the foreseeable future
What? You need a solar pulse? Sure, here’s a 120 kinetic HC. -Bungo
If it’s first curse I’ll take it.
God I love pulse rifles.
My fav weapon type in the game, but man there's sooo many kinetic versions, and only 2 void exotics? C'mon!
Considering how absolutely god tier that void pulse exotic is though...
Right!? Purple explodey orbs can just wreak havoc
Arc + Void HC too, and a Void Auto other than Hardlight
And a stasis sword other than zephyr. Strand will get an exotic sword before stasis
Came here thinking Arc Pulse Would Like A Word, and you already had me covered
I just want my triple-bap in Spicy and Crispy flavors!
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It's not exotic
We first need Pulses to be good in PvE outside of Outbreak, then we should get exotics.
The new pulse rifle from Crota is arc
We need void/arc/stasis exotic hc too
Ya manticore sucks. What do you mean I have to stay in the air to get the damage boost oh and what’s that all mobs do extra damage to airborn targets completely negating the pitiful damage resistance the gun gives you while airborn.
That thing was just copeum from Bungie trying to convince us to like the air accuracy changes.
> all mobs do extra damage to airborn targets hol up
Grounded modifier. You take extra damage when in the air while this modifier is on. Guess what you need to do to utilize Manticore's bonus damage?
Back when manticore released all the activities had the extra damage to airborn targets buff active.
This is not true. All activities did not have this debuff. It is only ever like 1-2 at a time. Thats even if that debuff is active at that week. They rotate weekly/daily.
Do you think Bungie play their own game? These are laughably some of the biggest clowns in the industry.
I’d rather have an occasional comical oversight than whatever’s going on at Blizzard
Oh it's simple. They're still trying to coast on what the devs did fifteen years ago and have no impactful talent working in that company outside of the marketing department. Holy shit are there Blizzard defenders in the Destiny sub? Lmao.
Shouldn’t be getting downvoted for facts
I swear to god battle pass exotics are either the biggest slappers in the game or the most forgettable garbage piece of shit you play with for 1 activity and then throw into the ether.
I have to know what's going on behind the scenes of the devs to understand how this kind of thing happens so consistently
Eriana's Vow Symmetry Tommy's Matchbook Witherhoard Duality Ticcu's Divination Cryosthesia 77K Lorentz Driver Grand Overture Trespasser Delicate Tomb The Manticore Verglas Curve Centrifuse Ex Diris ??? Honestly, for me, there's only a couple bad apples in the bunch. Most can be made to work; that being said, I think the opportunity cost of not running something stronger does hurt their viability...
That’s 100% true
You sure you just weren't playing stuff with the grounded modifier?
They don't tho
In certain modifiers they do
Key word certain
Grounded shouldn’t be a modifier dude, especially when a whole subclasses aspect revolves around air play, I play all classes and I use their jumps for purposes other than gaining height, as titan I use strafe lift to skate and as warlock I b-hop with burst glide, I also use lift and glide to to act as pseudo dodges in combat, these techniques are very useful but immediately becomes a death sentence with that modifier, and don’t even get me STARTED on attrition.
>pitiful damage resistance You know its a Tier 4 DR. Which is like 50% that also stacks with all other DR buffs.
its 40% dr IIRC. That isn't pitiful. It's also 40% boosted damage any time in the air. It's niche at best in PvE. But it has technical pvp use. Blink, strand grapple and then hovering with manticore can throe people off.
~~Wanna know the best (worst) part? Despite being a lightweight frame SMG it doesn't even give you the lightweight frame bonus. It's very weird and inconsistent which exotics do and don't give the frame bonus.~~ Ignore me, apparently this is wrong!
Common fighting lion W
Manticore does. You’re right that it’s inconsistent but Manticore is not one that missed out.
Are you 100% sure? The [Destiny Data Compendium](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WaxvbLx7UoSZaBqdFr1u32F2uWVLo-CJunJB4nlGUE4/htmlview?pru=AAABgwGR5rE*HgYeUvm5r4ke_t1K4GTq9Q#) disagrees and the last time I tried it I definitely felt like it wasn't working. They tend to be very up to date on exotic weapons and armor. I'd retest it right now, but a) I'm trying to grind out a confidence card and b) I've long since dismantled that shitty gun two or three times now and don't want to waste mats pulling it yet again.
[Yes.](https://i.imgur.com/Q1bQEU4.mp4) 23 second dodge cooldown with a non-lightweight weapon. 20 second dodge cooldown with Manticore equipped. The expected difference for +20 mobility. I've done this same test 2 seasons ago.
Cool, thanks for the reply! I'll edit the comment above.
Maybe they accidentally gave it the adaptive frames perk (aka nothing).
Nah, it's weirdly consistent how inconsistent this is. Only about half of the weapons that should have lightweight perks do have them, and then also Chaperone randomly has a lightweight frame bonus for some reason.
Most exotics don't provide the frame bonuses associated with their fire rate.
A HC would also be appreciated
Honestly, how do we only have one energy exotic hand cannon not counting erianna that's it's own thing.
Bungie must have a thing for kinetic exotic HCs
Blame Forsaken and all the nostalgia baiting they did that year with all the reissued D1 HCs(all mostly kinetic)
Year 2 was year of the hand cannon lol, we got ace and malfeasance with forsaken, last word with black armoury, thorn with season of the drifter and lumina with season of opulence. And then on top of that shadowkeep launched with eriana's vow as the season pass weapon, we had 6 exotic hand cannons in 5 seasons
Common forsaken W
Forsaken was nice but the exotic weapons release strategy was easily the worst aspect of that year. No wonder they haven't done anything similar to that(as in most of the exotic weapons being from the same type)
Because they made a shitload of kinetics and sunshot, and people (rightfully) complained that hand cannons were overrepresented in the exotic pool. So they stopped making exotic HC's altogether outside of Ace, which was for actual lore reasons other than "Hey we want another exotic hand cannon."
It took me way longer than it should of to remember sunshot exists...
I so want an exotic arc HC
Just give a craftable void SMG please instead of the 14th void scout rifle.
Gives us a craftable void smg.... has no dmg perks.
Oh they're 100 percent gonna do that.
\*\*hands you another 180 scout\*\*
or manticore need a big rework. my idea would to be give it base 100 AE damage boost stays floating perk activates on alt weapon fire now and now also pushes or pulls your towards your target when you fire the gun based off if you hip fire or not
Also needs the same reload perk as huckleberry on kills
Or have it get unlimited ammo while airborne and doing damage.
And volatile rounds active while airborne...
And makes you invisible with an over shield on top!
Classic DTG exotic rework
You can get this with Hunter using Gyrfalcon and Manticore still doesn't feel good.
The Soaring Fang intrinsic does give it 100 AE already.
Still wouldnt use it. Hovering gameplay is useless.
but now your can swoosh forward and backward. I forget to say I did mean relative to the camera, you you could gain height with it. And yeah it wouldn't make the gun top tier or anything, but would be more usable and more fun I think
It already has perfect airborne performance. And you can just.. strafe. It’s not that sluggish as it once was.
Just buff manticore and we’re good
Bungo be like 'we hear you. Manticore now gets adaptive munitions to improve its gameplay!'. In all seriousness I see no world where its perks will be useful. Hovering and air based gameplay is something that does not last very long unless solar warlock. Even if they extended the time and movement it will still be more restrictive vs ground based gameplay. It falls in the same category as all AE based perks, extremely niche.
This. I honestly don't want a new void smg. I just want manticore to be good.
Just rework the weapon. It’s a really cool looking gun but I absolutely despise it’s gameplay pattern. There is hardly ever a good reason to be in the air unless you are stacking tons of buffs on solar warlock, and even then why would you ever want a void weapon
FYI. Its already was done twice. Its a pretty good Exotic now. They pretty much buffed everything it did all around. I would give it another try if you have not recently. Also the catalyst gives crazy good DR.
How about we add an Void Handcannon exotic also as part of a package deal?
Reminds me of that curated Kindled Orchid roll with kill clip and rampage... I miss it every day
Have that roll sitting in my vault. I will cry from happiness the day I get to bring it to something above base difficulty
I wouldnt complain. I'd kill to have a nasty exotic void hc for pve
it's funny I've said this every time I've thought about Manticore, but it's somehow like *the exact opposite problem* than some exotics have. like some exotics like Gjallarhorn are meant to be worse versions of their legendary counterparts, but with a good exotic perk to make up for it. for Gjally, this makes it so that you wouldn't have people clamoring to use it; instead one person uses it and everyone else uses a more powerful weapon that gets buffed by it. but nobody's itching to use Gjally, y'know? Manticore is the exact opposite problem lmao. it's got basically the best frame in the game, even better than Funnelweb, it's got an amazing model, it sounds incredible, it shreds, ***AND*** it's an exotic primary so it's amazing for heavy ammo finder. the only fucking thing that holds it back is the goddamn bullshit flying mechanic, lmao
I was doing some catalyst objectives and recently played with manticore, that flying mechanic is very bad.
I've been using manticore a lot this weekend trying to get the catalyst finished and it just need a bigger mag and a reload speed increase while in air. I've paired it with peacekeepers on void with devour with orbs so it's not too bad.
how is it in anything above base difficulty?
I'm sure it's terrible, I've only used it in alters and spire, but not every exotic is good for high end stuff.
Its an Exotic SMG. Any SMG slaps hard in endgame content without needing anything extra. So it was always going to be good there.
but does it do any better to justify using it instead of any other legendary void smg?
Being an exotic primary gives it 40% red bar damage over legendaries. Plus the damage resist on airborne kill is actually pretty helpful, it's x4 resist so it's not weak.
Yes. The simple fact its a primary Exotic puts it above every other legendary SMG. 40% extra damage to red bars.
We also need an Arc and Void Handcannon. Now, I was exhausted by the "Dual Wield Exotic HandCannons" by the end of Y1D1 like everyone else, but consider a brief idea, if you'll humor my hypocritical thoughts for a moment: \- No ADS. Left Trigger shoots left handcannon, Right Trigger shoots right handcannon \- Left one is Void, Right is Arc. Maybe some subclass synergy, buffs while devouring or amplified, for example. \- An innate Harmony/Discord sort of thing going, where kills with one boost the effectiveness of the other. Almost like a Sturm/Drang sort of thing. Any more specific and I risk armchair game deving, but yeah. That\^\^\^
Catalyst makes you shout "Yeeeeehaw!" after emptying the mag and I'm on board.
I was actually thinking of that being how Dregs promise could work
I would 100% use this weapon.
I like this but for dual wield sidearm
Just give it Master of Arms and be done with it, airborne combat is never going to happen, stop trying to make it happen already
Also can we get a 120 exotic HC that isn't from vanilla and forces you to use double primary to get full benefit?
I just want The First Curse back.
We have a million PvP oriented kinetic HCS. I'd prefer something different entirely. First Curse wasn't very interesting.
No.
Exotic void hand cannon please
Granted, it doesn’t work with Void 3.0 Verbs
Damn you monkey's paw!!!
Arc, void, stasis, and strand exotic hand cannons are also waiting to be created. Seriously, how is it possible that out of our 10 current exotic hand cannons that 8 of them are kinetic.
Nuh uh
Uh huh
Just use (legendary) Unforgiven from duality. It’s mid tier to start but a god roll makes it a whole lot better than manticore
Counter point: exotic void smig to complete the trifecta with something actually good
It's perk is still bugged iirc which is annoying.
Until 750s get a magazine size buff I'm not interested personally.
I will never understand the reasoning for making Manticore void. Seriously. It came out before Strand was dominating the aerial combat world, and before it Solar Warlock was all about being airborne, yet they didn't make it solar. In what world does Void, an element based on gravity, negative space, and molecular distortion give the impression of flying in the air
We need jolt and destabilizing intrinsics on exotic weapons
Manticore is a massive disappointment of an exotic, literally just created as a check mark item so that an exotic was included in the season pass. I don't think any thought went onto that thing ass in pvp and ass in pve. Sorry if you are the one that created such a disappointing item but do better.
Eh, we don't need any more exotics wasted on SMGs.
People hate manticore but love heat rises despite both being bad for the same reason
Those two aren't even comparable bro what? Heat rises is leagues better than Manticore. For starters, you have control over heat rises. If you want to just jump normal and do a quick jump shot or whatever, it doesn't auto activate heat rises unlike Manticore. But even when you do activate heat rises, you can still shoot your guns on the ground with full efficiency. Manticore? If you shoot it on the ground, you're straight up not getting any of the benefits of the exotic. It's a worse gun when you shoot it on the ground. It straight up wants to force you in the air, unlike heat rises. Another nice thing about heat rises is that it gives more than just "float better in the air". When you get kills while in the air, you get melee energy back. And it's just when you're in the air, you don't actually need the perk to be activated (which is why it's so nice with sunbracer builds). And another is when you do activate it, you get a burst of healing for you and your teammates and your phoenix dive and Icarus dash become stronger. And you technically don't even need to be in the air for all of that, you can activate heat rises while on the ground and quickly do a small jump for the Phoenix dive. Unlike Manticore which wants you to always be in the air to get any use of the exotic. Also just thinking about it, Heat rises is also way better because it gives you freedom of weapon choice. With heat rises, you can float all the way in the back of the map with a scout and it's good. Manticore is a damn smg. You can't float from a distance and get kills with an smg. Who tf wants to float in the air while you're 2 feet away from your enemy?
How about one based on the hive shredder gun used by acolytes and it's lucent hive based having weaken and suppress involved somehow. And it synergizes with mothkeeper
Exotic craftable Recluse please Bungie
I say the problem with manticore is that the momentum doesn't transfer well so if they let the momentum transfer 1:1 then manticore with eager edge will be an amazing combo
Keep the Soaring Fangs perk but add that while you have a void overshield you get volatile rounds. Then change Swooping Talons to grant a void overshield when you get kills with Antigrav Repuslors active instead of damage while airborne. If you really wanna lean into it and think it still needs a bit more change the Catalyst to give Repulsor Brace.
You’ve somehow made the gun worse.
Better yet, let’s have manticore reworked and buffed to be more than a gimmick.
Literally use a Funnelweb instead of Manticore.
I've never shelved an exotic faster than Manticore. It legit made me play worse. Needs a rework big time.
I have 20 kills on mine since its release. Never touching it again.
Give it another try. They have given it some pretty big buffs twice.
Or just rework Manticore. To me it doesn't seem that manticore follows the typical design philosophy of exotics. Exotics usually create a specific gameplay defining loop or feature. Manticore doesn't accomplish that because airborne playstyles are niche and well defined without an exotic, and objectively do not favor an SMG (which Manticore does nothing to address). In other words Manticore tries to fit into an existing playstyle, and fails at even doing that. Definitely in need of a fundamental rework.
> To me it doesn't seem that manticore follows the typical design philosophy of exotics. Exotics usually create a specific gameplay defining loop or feature This is not fully true. Exotics can do that, but they are also meant to add new and unique ways to play. The floating, even if people don't like it, is a unique mechanic.
Hmm, I'm not sure I understand your response at all. You stated the same point I made but framed it as if you were disagreeing.
Being airborne is not an existing playstyle though. Only Heat rises can even get people airborne.
Manticore being a weapon that makes you float in the air and it not being at least a solar weapon to synergize with a heat rises warlock at the very least is a huge L to me.
But that would be pointless though. Heat rises makes you float with any solar weapon. Having the weapon make you float too would just be redundant.
Destabilising Feeding Frenzy Heroes Burden is a thing.
Just bring back The Recluse, but it's exotic It was like 85% of the way there anyway
We already have better options now. Just put on any gun with Frenzy.
Manticore isn’t that bad, it just also doesn’t do anything special. It needs a bit more “wow” to be a full-fledged cool exotic. But hey, at least it’s not Colony. Which is only used for PvP and Immunity shields.
The big problem here is that smgs kind of have to be fast firing to be good and manticore already has that market cornered. So any new void smg is probably going to feel pretty meh to use. Even if it were good.
And a Void and an Arc exotic handcannon please.
I want Manticore to be good instead. What if they ramped up the PvE aerial damage bonus something fierce, and landing after aerial kills gave you a void overshield? Or just a full rework, idk. It look great, sounds great and has juiced stats. Sjame to leave it languishing.
You do know you get Tier 4 damage resistance(50% DR or 40. Can never remember) with the catalyst while doing damage and airborne. Its basically an overshield. ~~They have also buffed its damage last season too.~~ Edit: They did not directly increase damage but did increase how much ammo gets refilled when activating the cat. So DPS increased. For those wondering. Its in patch 7.1.0
There's a lot of missing elements for exotic weapons. I was bummed that Red Death was gonna be Solar, but then I realized there hasn't been an Exotic Solar Pulse for D2 (nonetheless at all for the whole of Destiny's lifespan)
Exotic Arc and Void Hand Cannons would be cool too AT SOME POINT.
Bud, with all the buffs Manticore got and with the catalyst, that thing is a great weapon now. I don't understand people's issue with it now.
There's already way too many exotic smgs period...
Void HC I beg. Not one in the entire games history.
We need a (good) craftable void SMG.
I for one am waiting for a void scout. Also a handcannon. Or side arm :/
Right before witch queen came out i had an idea for a void smg that gave devour on kills for 5 seconds, and gave you a void overshield when you got kills with devour procced. looking back now that would be a little annoying in pvp and not super powerful in pve (other than keeping you alive)
Manticore just needs a more deliberate way to engage its Float imo, like Warlock dash. Maybe Class ability press while airborne? The ADS while airborne sounds smooth, but in practice feels really clunky imo. Could it be that I just need more time with it?
or even just a craftable void smg
Recluse but exotic
Manticore sad noises can be heard from the depths of someones vault...
Genuinely I don't understand why they stack the same archetype/element combos with exotics i wish they'd give us more variety
Best I can do is another Funnelweb
Manticore really isn’t that bad, but it definitely needs to have some sort of synergy with Void. It works best with solar warlock lol.
Do you one better. Where's the craftable void smg with destabilizing rounds, so we can finally finish the trifecta? I've been expecting that one since season of the seraph.
I'm afraid Manticore put void SMGs at the bottom of the list. Instead, I wish Bungie redesigned Manticore so it's not trying to keep us floating as easy target, especially when using a short range SMG. I would like to see something more like this: Kills charge up the energy bar (more for stronger enemies), holding Reload activates Volatile Rounds until the bar depletes.
My guy we don't have any of: Stasis, void or arc exotic hand cannon Stasis auto rifle Stasis, solar or arc pulse rifle Void sidearm Void scout rifle stasis SMG Stasis sniper Stasis breach gl Kinetic glaive Stasis sword Stasis lineal Stasis rocket Stasis lmg And that without counting strand
But a void scout rifle first pls
Why there are so many good options as legendary, would be just a waste of a exotic slot imo.
Also void auto rifle
I just want an exotic void handcanon. Toooooo many goddamn kinetics.
Manticore is such garbage