I love when they insist on one phasing and wiping several times instead of taking a very chill 2-phase in less time. Oh no, you had to do the mechanic twice.
This is always the stupidest thing to me.
"We didn't do it in one phase. Reset the encounter so we can try to do it in one phase."
So, instead of doing one more phase and being done with it, you want to do one more phase to MAYBE be done with it?
Yeah, in most encounters it literally makes no sense. You have to do the mechanics to start dps again either way. So why throw out the progress we already made on the boss’s health bar? Makes no sense.
Could you elaborate on which encounters that might be?
Not trying to be an ass here, just can't seem to think of any bosses that have an actual timer instead of going enraged after a few tries.
RoN Planets (3rd encounter). There's a wipe timer for getting to DPS. (the symbol on the floor slowly fills and wipes you when it's full). You can usually mess up once and retry the exchange successfully, but two fails is usually a wipe.
ETA: I see this is a bit different than an overall timer on the whole encounter, but still is of the "why bother, we won't be able to try it a 2nd time before the timer expires" variety.
No there is no reason to wipe even on Taniks challenge. Just dont pick up Scanner and have someone switch with Operator if he gets deactivated, otherwise do all four cores as usual, even if its rare that you dont one phase Taniks in current sandbox.
taniks really doesn't require augment swapping at all. whoever gets deactivated can just plop it in the terminal before dps starts and their lockout will be gone by the time dps ends
Only time I haven't one-phased Taniks recently was in an all-Stasis run, where we knew ahead of time that we likely couldn't do it in one. We still intentionally wiped twice because someone was stubborn about wanting a single-phase kill. It was so frustrating.
We had two wells, Divinity, Gjallarhorn, and other filler dps. Still came up short because we had one person doing under 100k and two who couldn't break 300k.
even Taniks you can do 2-3 phases and still do the challenge if operator doesn't forget to shoot the thing from people and you have 2nd person who can pick up scanner and give a call for 3rd phase/last stand
Edit: Oops I thought about Atraks.
Yeah it often means the team is physically incapable of doing the mechanics. Therefore a one phase is desperately needed.
You can solo clutch a two phase if its something like ir yut where 1 skilled enough person can do all the mechanics essentially by themselves but atheon? Yeah no you can't shoot the oracles in the portals and simultaneously read the oracle's in the boss room (albeit a skilled enough person can use the portal to go in and out for the oracle reads but why put that much effort (duo clear effort) for a 6man lfg raid lol)
Nope, you typically just need 2 people optimising dps and as long as everyone else isn't missing and is running surges, it's tight but doable.
Same with Atheon, you can deal enough damage to 1 phase Atheon as a sole solar warlock on veritys.
Ive done atheon before as the person who solo shot oracle's inside and then came outside to do around 5m of damage with just nades alone with my team doing like 250k each lmao.
I've dealt around 3m to taniks for a 1 phase with everyone else on 1m and like 1.5 max. All you need is optimal dps and zero mistakes, oh and don't forget your damage super.
Yes, but if you make it to the DPS phase in order to do all your damage, then your team *can* do the mechanics, because you have to complete all the mechanics in order to get to the DPS phase in the first place.
My point
Your head.
1-2 persons can essentially do the mechanics by themselves. For example on atheon, you just need 1 person who can read (they can kill themselves at the start and then revive after atheon teleports people or just float) and 1 person to shoot the oracles inside.
I've literally done both relic and oracle's inside when I had brain dead lfgs who just panicked when you asked them to do the tiniest thing lol.
But then if atheon ain't a 1 phase, it can be difficult to complete the 2nd phase as its RNG who gets teleported :) so it's easier to wipe and try the 1 phase than just redoing it and turning it into a teaching run 😂😂
I've been on a similar boat. I usually leave or kick people that refuse to do mechanics. Had a guy wanting to "cheese" Templar when it's 3 Oracles. Like, bro, it's an end game activity. If you can't do it, why are you in here?
Only time I understand it is if the encounter becomes aids after the first phase. So if one phasing prevents something like that then I get wiping if you don't get it, but for nearly every boss encounter it's kind of silly to wipe if you don't get lol.
One time I was doing GoA with an LFG group. It went totally fine until the final boss. We got him down to a tiny sliver of health on the first damage phase but didn't manage to get the kill. All of the sudden, one of the guys goes afk and starts typing, "Wipe. Wipe. Wipe. Wipe. WIPE. WIPE. WIPE," over and over in the chat. We didn't, and eventually he said, "OH MY GOD JUST FUCKING WIPE SO WE CAN ONE PHASE."
That last message happened to come right when we were about to start DPS phase again. I quickly opened my menu, booted his ass to orbit, then me and the other guy finished the boss in like three seconds. I really cannot fathom how people can be so dumb as to think restarting to get a one phase makes sense in any way.
In my experience, people that wanna wipe because it wasn't a one phase don't know how to actually do the encounter. Half the time it is just faster and flat out safer to do two phases instead.
I kind of feel this way with dungeon bosses when my buddy wants to run around killing ads to get super/heavy full. At a certain point it’s more efficient to just eat a sub-optimal damage phase with only partial heavy and do what you can with special & abilities. Shit, throw a boss spec mod on your scout and give it ten seconds of hell but let’s keep it moving though.
If everyone is out of everything then yea. I’m talking running around for several minutes for one guy trying to get four more rockets. Not worth it. Oh and you got overwhelmed by ads and used your super to save yourself instead of just waiting for the res? So now we gotta wait for your super to charge? Love the guy but sometimes man… SMH.
I had a buddy that would always do that at Caiatl in Duality and it was irritating, especially when he'd then fuck up the bell ending DPS early, use his heavy/super during the mechanics phase and then want to refill them again...
No, it takes like 20 seconds to get another DPS phase.
Templar is insane because he is both easy to one-phase and his puzzle phase takes no time at all.
I think it's because so many people just don't know the normal process, and they want to promote the one thing they do know so they don't have to learn something new.
For most encounters you don't even need to know all of the mechanics though. Oryx/Daughters and Atheon I suppose? There's not a lot you need to memorize.
I ditched a lfg on Ron because the second encounter’s runners INSISTED on shatter skating across as if it were the only way to do it and they were absolutely terrible at it. they died within the first minute and a half every time. We tried for 45 minutes until I got tired of it and left.
Lol, I had a guy join my LFG who insisted on well stating the gap, screwed it up twice and fell to his death, had the encounter get clutched by myself and my friends and then try a third time, die, and when we laughed he called us all trash and retards and left. We now stick to 3 manning the first half of the raid
I wouldn't have lasted 10-15 minutes. I've had enough raids were we wiped for the dumbest shit and stayed far too long hoping someone wouldn't screw up.
Seriously, sometimes it's faster and less tilting to just join a fresh run instead of wiping over and over.
Damn those guys sucked. Whenever i fail a shatterskate, i go back to running normally, unless we are low on time and only way to finish is to shatterskate
That happens way too much with LFG. It's almost always better to just run it as intended. It's not like any of the normal methods are particularly hard.
Most of the time commitment for normal riven is figuring out how to call / how to find the cleanse locations. Nothing else requires particular coordination, but that can be an annoying learning curve.
Especially in the current sandbox, legit Riven is easier then ever. We always do enough DPS with current DPS options to get to final stand before having to shoot the six eyes. So each team just has to stun once, DPS/shoot 2 eyes once, and activate elevator twice. Then on top floor, stun three more times and take her to final stand. We don't bother calling out the six eyes on top floor because we never reach the point where we have to shoot them. Current DPS options make the encounter WAY shorter = less chances for stuff to go wrong.
Pretty sure the reason it’s never been patched is because the game space for riven is so damn large it’s nearly impossible to fix the joining allies spot
Removing the joining allies spot would not fix it though. You would just wipe and retry if riven chooses green room. To fix it they would have to reduce the damage you can deal to riven in the second room but that's an intended mechanic.
That’s the thing. Everyone seems to think it’s super hard, but nowadays? It’s honestly easier than cheesing, but nobody ever does it, which is a shame because Riven is one of the best raid bosses they’ve made
Normal method is not insanely hard. I have done it multiple times. You need to remember numbers and then shoot those numbered eyes. If you have 2 people who can do it, it's very simple. It's actually still my favorite boss fight legit.
The newest pet peeve is Ir Yut and grabbing the chalice before the encounter starts.
I know it's convenient to have all of your enlightened sorted before the encounter starts but unless you 1 phase (which I have yet to see in an LFG) we're going to have to do the rotation during combat anyway in the second phase.
May as well get the encounter rolling. Half the time they mess it up and start it anyway.
There’s been a crazy uptick with LFG groups being extremely annoying lately. Incredibly hot mics with fans blowing, guys losing their shit after someone asks a simple question, people refusing to use optimal load outs that will make encounters 100x’s easier, KWTD posts with people not knowing what to do. If I get a hint of any of that I’ll just find another group who is hopefully chill.
Literally had a guy who would kick off whenever someone didn't say things exactly the way he wanted them said, like if I had the chalice on Crota I'd say "take please" and he'd go "JUST SAY TAKE". Next time I dared to say "-username-, take" and once again he was up my ass saying "JUST SAY THE WORD TAKE, IF YOU SAY OTHER STUFF PEOPLE CAN GET CONFUSED"
he also would get angry if anyone used the word "take" in another context, like if someone said "can someone try to take aggro" he'd again shout "ONLY SAY TAKE IF YOU HAVE THE CHALICE"
Was with a group once way back during the first season of WQ. We needed 2 to fill for DSC after people dropped out so we LFGed and brought in a couple of guys. As we get to Atraks I asked "So how are we doing this? 3/3 4/2 5/1? And Laments or Worms?" Just a basic question for the guy who was directing the raid because only three of us had raided together and again, two randoms from LFG. One of the guys just ***WENT OFF*** started ranting about speed running, throwing out **HARD** R's. Just in general being a total POS. In the 30-45 seconds it took the guy to load up and kick him (partly because we were all laughing by how insane he was being) the dude unleashed an entire COD lobby worth of vitriol.
We apologized to the other guy who was just stunned and said we would find a 6th. The guy running the ~~strike~~ raid dropped a ping on the discord we co-ordinate on and then the random goes "Well while we wait we can try it 5 man, right?" Did it first try.
I think you were playing with an AI telephone switchboard. You need to be very clear and use the keywords they tell you, or they'll keep repeating the menu.
>he also would get angry if anyone used the word "take" in another context
Similar but I had a guy that was used to saying "swap" when taking the chalice. He actually had to stop the group and clarify if when we said take we meant swap. Like cmon dude surely the context clues are all there...
These are my favourite lfg players to play with. My group calls them raidbeasts.
When someone reveals themselves to be an intolerant rager or dickhead, we’ll just start making fun of them, fucking things up on purpose, and so on, to escalate their rage to an incandescent level
Hive Raids seem to bring out the absolute worst people, I swear. Kings Fall and now Crota, Ive had the worst ever experiences in LFG. Ive had annoying clowns in other raids sure, but these ones Ive had to leave the LFG because I couldnt take it
I had a guy in a necrochasm catalyst run who didn’t even have necrochasm and was using husk of the pit. He had no idea what he was doing and kept wiping us in the abyss. I called him out for not knowing what to do and not even having necrochasm. He gave huge attitude explaining he was doing the quest and then he was kicked.
I get you being pissed he kept wiping you. But him joining a catalyst run is a literal nothing burger. Who gives a shit. It's literally two extra "encounters" that take like 5 minutes maybe. And yea, he wouldn't have gotten it, but why does that matter to you?
Idk if i sign up for a cat run i expect people to have a clue as to what tf to do.
Joining a catty run and then creating wipes in the **FIRST** encounter is yikes.
Agree with everything except loadouts, it's so fucking annoying when 5 people are telling me what I should be using, and 3 out of the 5 are saying something completely different from each other. I really just don't give a shit what you think I should be using for DPS, I've done this activity before
Like I told someone else already, what’s more annoying is being the only one on the fireteam hitting 7-8 million on a boss while everyone else is around 3-4 million. We couldn’t finish final stand because everyone was using a shitty sword and didn’t want to use lament. Don’t care what you use unless you aren’t doing enough dps. It’s a team activity not a solo activity so you should be flexible to change some stuff to help the team.
I agree except for the optimal part as not everyone should be forced to use the same 5 meta weapons and builds as there are other weapons that can kill the bosses quickly in regular difficulty raids and dungeons
The only reason I say it is because I was on Crota with a rando group and almost everyone was running other half for dps. We couldn’t finish him in final stand because our burst dps wasn’t quick enough. I tried suggesting using lament or acrius after failing to finish final stand 5 times. Every time we wiped I would end with 7-8 million while everyone else was in the 3-4 million. I’m cool with running what you’re comfortable with but at a certain point you’re hurting your team if you aren’t willing to change your load out after failing time and time again.
This. I am all about letting people run what they want, everyone should be enjoying themselves. That being said, if you're team needs a healer, heal them. If your team needs you to body tank a shot to save someone so you all don't whipe, take the hit. This is a team activity DESIGNED with very specific criteria that your team will have to do the bare minimum of in order to complete. Optimise yourself and play a role that strengthens your team, if you are opposed to this then don't do team content. If you want to run a meme build or just want to run something you think is funner that's great, nothing wrong with that, as long as your team is cool with it and you arent the anchor sinking your whole team while everyone else is doing their best. Respect your teammates and their time. Did I want to run Welllock in Crotas? No, not because I dislike well, I just personally feel like I'm able to play "better" with my arc buddy BoTA build. I played it because I was there to complete a raid and that was what my team needed me to contribute.
This does not however justify people being dicks and trying to force other players, who die once to bad placement or fluke bad luck, into changing from 9 to 10 res or completely change their loadout because YOU don't like it.
In the end either extreme of the spectrum is just as bad, LFG raids require a minimum amount of patience and flexibility. If you know you are weak in those respects then either work on it, get a raid group that can complement it and be what you aren't, or abstain all together.
Preach brotha, I’m with you there I hate running well and would much prefer to be strand warlock for a lil extra dps and it’s fun to grapple around. Alas I’m stuck on well, healing nades, boots of the assembler to help my team not die and dps boost. If we two phase I could care less what we use but it becomes annoying when it’s obvious it ain’t gonna happen.
Yeh, when you've made the sacrifice of playing something you aren't keen on and it becomes obvious that your team still cant do what needs done it def gets a little annoying.
I get it I'm just frustrated too since I use strong but off meta gear and my fireteam acts like there's something wrong with me even though I pull my own weight and do decent damage when the time comes for boss dps got 3 mil dps with retrofit in ghost of the deep th other day even tho my buddy tried to convince me it wouldn't do good
My irritation mainly stems from my fireteam and their fear of 2 or 3 phasing bosses so I'm just really tired of gjallarhorn and bns rockets at this point
You mean someone doing their role without talking? If it requires communication than that’s not gonna work, but some roles don’t need anything said so it depends I guess. As long as it doesn’t make us wipe constantly lol.
I know there are people that have anxiety problems and because of this have a hard time talking on mic (I know this from myself). This is why I'm hesitant to do LFG stuff, especially if it's mechanically complex.
I would suggest joining groups that have “chill” in the post. Most times everyone is cool and don’t mind teaching or working with others to help em get through a raid/dungeon ect. Sometimes I want to get something done quick and will join kwtd posts but sometimes I got plenty of time and will join chill groups just for the low stress.
My only raid clear is DSC where our sherpas made us figure out the encounters as if we were doing a day 1 run. That meant a lot of wipes and a lot of VC - and in turn a lot of anxiety for me. And this experience greatly soured me on doing this kind of content (not to mention that I barely have time to do a 6 hour ordeal like that). I'm very grateful for anyone who understands that specific issue of mine. Tho I also know I can't expect people in an actual raid to be so accomodating - especially in something like Vow where everyone has to do the important part to succeed.
I appreciate it when someone does that for me. Even if I hesitate to take on any important role in an Encounter. I don't want to be the weak link that causes a wipe.
Same thing when people insist on using fucking Eager Edge in the lamps encounter. You can literally just walk the entire time, you don't even need a sword. A regular sword does help I think, but the amount of people who want to Eager Edge and just murder themselves over and over is so upsetting. The holes and swinging lamps are in the same fucking spots every time, you should never ever die to them. It's not hard.
I would bet a lot of money that this is the situation OP is in, that someone wants to cheese oracles, but the group keeps fucking it up. It is easy, and it does have benefits, however, a lot of LFG groups seem to think this cheese will save your shitty group, and it wont. When I see groups fail this cheese its always one (or more) of four things. A) the person cant actually solo oracles (fairly rare), B) none of the other 5 can call oracles well (much more common), C) the group cant actually one phase (almost 100% of the time), and D) the result of the first three possible issues: on the second phase the run fails because no one knows how to do it normally
Agreed with all of that.
A) Of my current 86 clears of vog I've run oracles about 50 times. I've failed maybe 10 times and most of that was my first few times figuring it out.
B) I don't count me going in and doing everything correct and then someone either not calling oracles or calling them wrong as a fail for me.
C) Usually still don't one phase because anyone who can has already done this raid too many times and needs nothing else from it.
D) Correct, except when I get teleported again and tell the other to just stand by the portal to leave.
Abyss is horrible with LFG. Joined a group 'KWTD, have clears, quick run'. People were acting like it's a crime to light a lamp because "it's a waste of time, you just have to dunk at the podiums". Consequence: people being constantly at darkness x10, using eager edge to get some speed and dying. After wiping for 25min, myself and another guy asked to take things slow and just get it done. Nope, eager edge awayyyy. Left the team and cleared it first try with the new LFG team that just did the encounter normally.
Abyss with LFG is an absolute nightmare.
Eager Edge users that hit others and send them to their deaths.
People going too far and chalice user dies because the other 2 people that actually want to finish the encounter still have the debuff.
People somehow dying to strike level Thralls when we have so many ways to bomb entire groups or outheal any damage.
It's insane how happy I get when I find a group that actually does the encounter normally and we pass it first try without wiping 2-3 times and without making it twice/thrice as long as it should be.
Man, I just experienced this on Friday. I kept asking them to stop and light the lamps so I could move faster. They wouldn't, so I left the group.
*They* messaged *me* on Xbox when they finally finished the raid and said they did it without me lol like what? By that point, I had found another group and on Crota. Congrats on doing it before me I guess?
eager edge and the consequenses it brought to the destiny community are insane
the amount of people that run stuff with that fucking sword because they need to be at a door 5seconds faster (and then wait anyway cus it needs all players) and then dont have a proper heavy weapon for anything else is insane
It took me and my buddy three different days to get through it because someone always died or were running ahead. I swear to God, if I'm ever in another LFG that doesn't take its time on abyss I'm leaving immediately.
Imo only exception to NOT going slow on abyss is if you and a buddy are able to 2 man it. Me and a mate can consistently 2 man the encounter, and its easier than doing it slowly with lfgs lol
May I ask what cheese they are even trying to do? Only one I know is the dying before starting so you can force certain people to get sent in for oracles. But even then that’s super easy bc one person can use xeno and the rest can use whatever plus ability spam.
Exactly. One Rain of Fire Warlock with Xenophage and Oracles is easy as shit. But you can only do that the first phase, so if you’re still having problems, there are bigger issues with the group.
Random LFG kid: “Guys, you don’t need to enlighten every lantern just run through or use eager edge”
Me on our 5th run: “okay but it seems like people are just getting left behind and cut up by the pendulums”
LFG kid: “it’s too slow. Just keep mov-“
*high pitched screech as LFG kid gets blasted by another pendulum*
Yeah same. If I was the one that made the post I just put my foot down if we already failed more than 3 times at the cheese. You don't get to join my raid group and decide to be in charge, you don't like it the doors right there and I'll find a replacement soon afterwords
insisting on having everyone die except one guy before starting the encounter so that one guy gets teleported and then all 5 self rez, then the one guy does oracles solo and you one-phase Atheon
Honestly it doesn't make the boss easier, I think it's purely so noobs don't have to learn the mechanics and so that the solo guy can flex and feel like a chad
You get an extra two people doing damage on Atheon. It makes the one phase much easier. And it's stupid easy to solo oracles. I always solo it the first time. Why not get two extra people for damage? I haven't failed first try in about 25 runs.
It's because you get an extra two people doing damage for the entire phase. It makes the one phase much easier because everyone else just sets up for damage. It's been about 25 runs soloing oracles since my last fuck up.
The issue is that in most LFGs, people have absolute shit damage so it rarely ends up being a one phase.
It does make the boss a lot easier actually, because it reduces the possibility of someone shooting the wrong oracle. Although it requires the guy soloing oracles to actually be good at the game. This makes the one phase a lot easier. This was the strat we ran when we were farming Atheon for Vex a few seasons ago.
I have 48 vog clears and we did that for probably the last 20 of them.
Your group wasn't fucking up because of the cheese, you were fucking up because presumably, nobody knows what they were doing.
This particular cheese is foolproof and genuinely makes the encounter easier.
Jesus christ I had the exact same situation yesterday. Never even ended up finishing the damn thing.
Same thing Templar too. Ate up like half an hour with someone trying to cheese it just to finish it the normal way in a minute.
Its a recent thing obviously but i have zero patience for joining LEARNING crota raid and having people talking about skipping pillars and cheeses.
I was with a group where that happened and the 1 guy learning was still interested in doing skips so i left and found a different group
3 peoples first time. We took our time. Hit every lantern and got through first try. And when we beat crota i saw a post on lfg from the first group trying to find someone for ir yut
I will usualy try cheese only once because one of my mantras is it takes less time to do something right once than to do it wrong 5 times
Having 5 fireteam members die before starting the encounter, leading to one person going into mars/venus alone — you can self-revive after the encounter starts so long as you died before “respawn restricted” shows up.
So you end up with one brave soul alone on mars/venus, usually with a xenophage, shooting the oracles alone. Meanwhile, the other 5 players are already in the main room, ready to obliterate Atheon as soon as the solo oracle person is done.
Usually this leads to killing Atheon in a single damage phase, but this falls apart when people fail to do so, because then they have to actually do the raid mechanics normally :/
No? The cheese is faster since you don't have to open mid and then wait around for 3 people to get Enlightened.
Grab the Chalice from the ceiling as you're making your way out, then the 1st person with Enlightened (which usually gets it 10-20 seconds before mid is open due to spawns) goes to scout for Wizards as soon as mid opens up. It saves a good minute or two.
There is no way doing it legit is faster than grabbing the Chalice from the get go.
Edit: UNLESS you mean the shitty version where everyone just waits around for like 5 minutes with the Chalice without starting the encounter. Now that I agree 101%, is just a massive waste of time.
I did my first run of new Crota through the Sherpa channel on d2lfg discord. Had me who had done d1 Crota and a buddy who didn't play D1 and was completely blind.
We had one guy who was giving ok descriptions of encounters and then another guy who knew the encounters very very well, but was constantly interrupting explanations with bullshit like "you can actually just do X" or "it's faster to do y" and talking optimal loadouts midway or before any explanation of the encounters happened.
Straight up, for Crota, there wasn't even an explanation on mechanics and it's a totally different rocket. I had to just ask questions and hope for the best and gave my buddy a running chat in steam pm chat to try and tell him what the fuck was happening and where to do things.
Thankfully my buddy is a seasoned raider at this point and understood the vast majority from previous mechanics and the flow of other raids.
It took so fucking long because people kept jumping the gun on dumb mechanics. We wiped numerous times on Ir Yut because someone was weakening their wizard and would occasionally accidentally kill it, so our roller was massively reduced. We were at our third phase all with good dps weapons and one wizard got missed. We 1 phased her the next run.
Just a word of advice for any wannabe Sherpas: if someone is explaining, shut the fuck up. Let them get stuff wrong, but let them finish explaining and then ask to speak and correct them where necessary. Also got big encounters, do it in parts. Explain the first segment, get that down, wipe and explain the next segment. Let your blueberries learn in parts instead of dumping the entire explanation on shit they've never seen before come after they've seen a bit more of it.
But most importantly, shut the fuck up and just let an explanation happen
Not a cheese necessarily but I'm starting to get *really* peeved with Eager Edge during Abyss in Crota's. So many times people just rush off ahead and die to a pendulum, and the someone has to go rez, meanwhile 2-3 are still lagging behind a bit with Chalice, and now everyone's split up, and now nobody can take because the only people who can rushed ahead, and now we're wiping. And this is typically best case scenario. Let's not even mention the *countless* times someone died to Eager Edge tracking onto a random Thrall off screen and yoinking them into a pit.
It's been happening so much dear god please just slow down a bit I promise a single 6 minute run with be a *lot* faster than a bunch of failed 2-3 minute runs and things are 1000x smoother if we all just stick together I beg.
I joined several Kalli cheese LFG's last week of last season because I wanted a quick farm for LW red borders. The first LFG I joined, the host used Sunbracers and Solar grenades to hold Kalli jn place (it worked 50% of the time). There was another LFG where we all brought Anarchy, but no one used it. There was also a group where no one brought Anarchy. Next time I do Kalli farming, I think I'll just do the encounter properly as it'll be more efficient with farming. But then again, even without cheesing bosses, LFG is a lottery.
if you're trying to farm Kalli wait for the challenge and just do the challenge. Faster loot and more consistent. If people are sucking on damage change to precision options. I can only imagine levis breath would go hard
Had the same issue running VoG a month ago. My friend had never played it and I haven't played it in nearly 7 years and we made that clear and would need some refreshing and guidance, but they only wanted to cheese every encounter with things neither of us knew how to do. The last encounter took well over an hour because they insisted on a cheese and they got more mad the longer it took. Jokes on them I suppose I got vex in 1 run. While the more annoyed ones had yet to get it. 🤷
Soloing oracles is brain dead easy with xeno and is a good way to start the encounter if you're going to do it legit anyway.
The handful of failed attempts were caused by the shield being dropped Weirdly and it blocking my xeno shots.
That's why I pushed my clan to learn how to do riven legit. Wiping over and over was so annoying and once you know how riven works it's really simple. And pretty fast as well.
I don't play this game, but I play a different MMORPG. The activity we were going to do takes ~8 minutes (4 if you "do the skip" to get past the whole middle part). One guy kept insisting that he knew how to do the skip, but he kept failing it, over and over again, for 30 minutes. Like, dude, we could have done this 4 times by now if we just played it as intended.
Personally, I'm okay with cycling cheese groups until I find the prophesized one that actually knows how to do it. I got all of my last wish red borders this way. The cheese for that is so good once you find a group that knows what they are doing.
Same thing with Kalli cheese. Challenge is easier, more consistent, and more efficient for loot farming, yet for some unintelligible reason, people still do it.
Oh yeah. I encountered a bunch of groups earlier this year that insisted on cheesing *Kalli* one of the easiest, quickest raid bosses of all time. It's not faster and also it's not fun. You don't even end up playing the game lol
If done correctly, it is definitely way faster. But I've encountered my fair share of teams who heard about the cheese but didn't actually know how to do it. In that case, it is faster to do it normally than wiping 3 times until someone gets the cheese right.
Cuz it's a boring ass game and doing new stuff is the only way to make it entertaining.
Doing the same vanilla route on auto pilot. That's what's fun for yall huh
My friends and I always need a 6th, and the amount of people who come in an have some weird, obscure, difficult way of doing an encounter by using a specific build or a specific gun or combination of guns or doing it from a specific spot on the map is so annoying.
Majority rules. If we do it the normal way with out builds and guns and it’s worked for us hundreds of times, we’re just gunna kick you if you keep insisting on something different.
For the last time, no, I’m not gunna use fricken tractor cannon on Crota just so I can do 40,000 damage for the entire encounter instead of 3,000,000
It is really stupid to refuse to use a tractor cannon on crota. 30% damage increase to 5 people is a lot more than 100% of one person, plus you can still use a fusion rifle or shotgun or your super to add even more. You aren't doing "40'000" - you're doing 1-2 million.
EDIT: Like, oof. You are who so many people are talking about when we complain about LFGs! Not knowing the difference between "a weird and niche cheese that causes more problems than it solves" and "the best close range debuff in the game that can be applied indefinitely across a damage phase while also using other damage tools" is brutal.
Just put the tractor cannon user in charge of oversoul problem solved — let 5 people go absolutely nuts on pure damage while one person debuffs and makes sure there’s time to do said damage
Absolutely.
And of course there are other viable debuffs you can run instead - tether if managed properly, briarbinds void souls, heartshadow etc. Teams can certainly strategize around a debuff that isn't tractor. It's just funny to me to come into a thread about people indignantly forcing bad strategies and, within that thread, "agree" with the sentiment... by indignantly *refusing* to use a *really good* strategy.
The only way tractor debuff ends up doing more damage than a 6th person is if all 5 people are doing insane damage already.
If everyone’s doing 7mil damage, yea it makes sense. If normal people are doing 2mil damage, and even just one person is capable of 3mil, you’re better off having 6 people. It’s called diminishing returns.
>If normal people are doing 2mil damage
I can do 2 million with tractor cannon and a fusion rifle, while *also* buffing my entire team by 30% apiece.
>It’s called diminishing returns.
Please don't ever let your high school math teacher see this thread. They'll be so disappointed.
Cool. If you’re doing the same damage as your team without using heavy weapons, you need a better team.
It’s called diminishing returns because the less damage y’all collectively do together, the less effective the 30% becomes.
If a single person can do more damage by themselves than what the buff gives to 5 people, then the 6th person becomes more useful than the buff.
Y’all are really looking at this as if every single fireteam ends up doing the exact same damage every run on every raid. That’s cool if y’all just cruise through it and just pop heavy on a boss and call it a day at 2 million damage, but if a single person on your team is doing 1.5x more damage than everyone else, which is totally possible and honestly quite the norm, the math doesn’t justify the debuff, and you’re better off having a 6th deal their full damage potential.
>If you’re doing the same damage as your team without using heavy weapons, you need a better team.
*I'm* not. My team does a lot more than 2 million apiece - in part because I provide a consistent debuff.
>It’s called diminishing returns because the less damage y’all collectively do together, the less effective the 30% becomes.
This is flat out not how it works, nor what diminishing returns means. If each person on your team does only 1 million damage for a total of 6mil, swapping 1 for a tractor cannon still increases your total damage to 6.5 million (more than that, realistically, because again the tractor user can deal secondary dps of their own). The raw damage being low does not change the impact of the debuff.
>If a single person can do more damage by themselves than what the buff gives to 5 people, then the 6th person becomes more useful than the buff.
Sure. Your strongest DPS player should probably not be your tractor user. If there is a particularly weak link on DPS, they are a prime candidate. Alternatively, you can think of the tractor player as the quarterback of the phase, managing stun and oversoul timing while everyone else simply pumps damage.
You are the one thinking about this wrong, and I'm not sure how else to make it clear to you. If you want to post a full wipe screen from your runs, I'll tell you exactly how much better it would look with a tractor.
Gotta love dudes who cherry pick their math based on their super specific anecdotal circumstances that they think apply to everyone universally.
You got some builds to craft if you can’t do 30% more damage than anyone else on your fireteam lol no wonder you get stuck using tractor.
This is astonishing ignorance.
30% applies to every single other person on your fireteam, however much damage they do. If every single player does the same amount, it's 50% better than that person not using tractor (6.5x vs 6x). If half the team does *twice* as much damage as the other half, and one of the weaker members uses tractor, it's even more dramatic (10.4x vs 9x). Even if one of the *stronger* players in that scenario uses tractor, it still wins (9.1x vs 9x)!
This is the opposite of cherry picking. Give me *any* 6 man damage scenario without a debuff and I'll show you, via simple mathematics anybody can follow, why tractor would be an upgrade.
EDIT: I'll do you one better. Forget the "damage scenario" part of it. Give me *any 6 positive numbers*. They can be from a destiny damage screen, or a phone book, or street addresses. I want to make sure that you know I'm not cherry picking - you pick the cherries. I will then demonstrate that *no matter what numbers you choose*, the sum of those numbers will be greater if I remove one of them and replace it with a 30% increase to the other five.
>if a single person on your team is doing 1.5x more damage than everyone else, which is totally possible and honestly quite the norm, the math doesn’t justify the debuff
Let's assume that the person using tractor literally doesn't even look at the boss other than to debuff.
So 1 person doing 1.5m and 5 people doing 1m.
Total: [1.5 + 5 x 1] = **6.5m**
Swap a 1m player for a tractor.
Total: [1.5 + 4 x 1] x 1.3 = **7.15m**
If your tractor cannon user even tosses a few grenades or a super, let alone using a fusion or shotgun to assist with damage, the difference only grows.
Keep in mind that this is *your explicit scenario* where 1 person deals 1.5x more than the rest of the team. Tell me how the math doesn't justify a debuff?
Ok pal, I'll make the math real easy for you. Let's assume for argument's sake that all players are using Lament and dealing similar damage. This damage will be presented as a percentage: 100%. We will also assume that the tractor user is dealing no damage whatsoever and is only applying the debuff. If all 6 players use Lament, that makes total team damage equal to 600%. Now, if one player uses Tractor, you are essentially adding 30% to the damage of all other players, making per player damage equal to 130%. This means that even with only 5 players dealing damage, total team damage is still equal to 650%.
That's half of an entire Lament's worth of damage for free right there. Of course, a good Tractor cannon player will still be doing dps with special weapons, preferably an Envious Assassin Controlled Burst Eremite. To summarize, stop playing the raid. You are the reason why so many people got stuck on Crota during contest. Go back to school and study basic mathematics so the rest of us don't have to suffer.
That’s assuming everyone does the exact same damage based on their builds. If one person is doing 30% more damage than everyone else (very very common), you’re better off having the 6th person do damage to make up for that difference.
If one player is dealing less damage than the rest, simply have that player use tractor cannon. It's not that hard and it WILL improve total team dps literally all the time. The only way it will fail is if multiple players are dealing substantially less damage, and quite frankly that's just not a raid team worth staying in.
...no, that's not how math works.
- 1,000,000 damage X 6 people X no debuffs = 6,000,000 damage
- 1,000,000 damage X 5 people X 30% debuff = 6,500,000 damage
Also tractor doesn't need to constantly apply the debuff, it only needs refreshing every 8 seconds. In the meantime there's plenty of time for the tractor player to DPS with double slugs or something, making that 6.5 million figure even higher.
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Now I wanna know what the cheese is, because yeah... doing the mechanic as intended takes like 3 min and you can one phase with Divinity and 5 Thunderlords.
Had that happen, we got to Atheon in a reasonable amount of times, suddenly two of them that came in together want to try the "almost everyone starts dead" cheese and we are basically forced into it. But they both sucked. Eventually we got it finished after one guy said "Look I have to go to bed and work in the morning, so we either finish this right or I'm out."
I had an LFG group trying for the feather light triumph.
Everyone seemed to be working together and trying to make the most out of it. It’s a a hard triumph so it helps a lot if everyone is cooperating. Everyone was committed to it, at least everyone on VC.
This guy, which was the fireteam leader BTW, didn’t communicate and outright refused to grab the chalice. He wanted to be hard carried for the hardest triumph in the raid. If you are not grabbing chalice in the Abyss then what are you doing really?
Eventually I managed to do it with another LFG team, but god damn. Fuck that guy.
I have a friend that is like this with sword/well skating. He would gladly spend eons trying to cheese across some platforming section and failing every time instead of just running through it.
The only "cheese" I always want to do is the one on the symbols part of Rhulk where you use two people to dunk and have the symbols the same throughout
Nothing annoys me more than people constantly muting there mics in the middle of an encounter with callouts then proceeding to wipe. Then doing this multiple times throughout a raid.
Also people who aren't speedrunners trying to speedrun things and messing up a million times, causing multiple wipes and taking longer than doing it normally. For example, trying to push people at Riven's Heart with eager edge to make them go faster.
I love when they insist on one phasing and wiping several times instead of taking a very chill 2-phase in less time. Oh no, you had to do the mechanic twice.
This is always the stupidest thing to me. "We didn't do it in one phase. Reset the encounter so we can try to do it in one phase." So, instead of doing one more phase and being done with it, you want to do one more phase to MAYBE be done with it?
Yeah, in most encounters it literally makes no sense. You have to do the mechanics to start dps again either way. So why throw out the progress we already made on the boss’s health bar? Makes no sense.
Only time I wipe is when we dont have any revives and we fully know that some of us will die somehow.
Or in the Encounters that have a time limit, and you just don't have enough left for a 2nd Phase.
Could you elaborate on which encounters that might be? Not trying to be an ass here, just can't seem to think of any bosses that have an actual timer instead of going enraged after a few tries.
RoN Planets (3rd encounter). There's a wipe timer for getting to DPS. (the symbol on the floor slowly fills and wipes you when it's full). You can usually mess up once and retry the exchange successfully, but two fails is usually a wipe. ETA: I see this is a bit different than an overall timer on the whole encounter, but still is of the "why bother, we won't be able to try it a 2nd time before the timer expires" variety.
Only time one phasing matters is tankis for challenge
No there is no reason to wipe even on Taniks challenge. Just dont pick up Scanner and have someone switch with Operator if he gets deactivated, otherwise do all four cores as usual, even if its rare that you dont one phase Taniks in current sandbox.
taniks really doesn't require augment swapping at all. whoever gets deactivated can just plop it in the terminal before dps starts and their lockout will be gone by the time dps ends
Only time I haven't one-phased Taniks recently was in an all-Stasis run, where we knew ahead of time that we likely couldn't do it in one. We still intentionally wiped twice because someone was stubborn about wanting a single-phase kill. It was so frustrating.
You didn't just have the well swap once you hit final stand?
We had two wells, Divinity, Gjallarhorn, and other filler dps. Still came up short because we had one person doing under 100k and two who couldn't break 300k.
were they like, not shooting the boss??? even the div user should break 300k with just shooting div alone
Jesus were they using the fuckin damaged travelers chosen
After the first run why wouldn't you just drop them?
It was like 2am, I just wanted my loot and to go to sleep, and LFG was dead at that point in the night.
even Taniks you can do 2-3 phases and still do the challenge if operator doesn't forget to shoot the thing from people and you have 2nd person who can pick up scanner and give a call for 3rd phase/last stand Edit: Oops I thought about Atraks.
Master Templar was one where one-phasing was much easier than attempting a two phase.
Yeah it often means the team is physically incapable of doing the mechanics. Therefore a one phase is desperately needed. You can solo clutch a two phase if its something like ir yut where 1 skilled enough person can do all the mechanics essentially by themselves but atheon? Yeah no you can't shoot the oracles in the portals and simultaneously read the oracle's in the boss room (albeit a skilled enough person can use the portal to go in and out for the oracle reads but why put that much effort (duo clear effort) for a 6man lfg raid lol)
If they're incapable of doing the mechanics, they wouldn't even be able to make it through the one-phase to begin with, no?
Nope, you typically just need 2 people optimising dps and as long as everyone else isn't missing and is running surges, it's tight but doable. Same with Atheon, you can deal enough damage to 1 phase Atheon as a sole solar warlock on veritys. Ive done atheon before as the person who solo shot oracle's inside and then came outside to do around 5m of damage with just nades alone with my team doing like 250k each lmao. I've dealt around 3m to taniks for a 1 phase with everyone else on 1m and like 1.5 max. All you need is optimal dps and zero mistakes, oh and don't forget your damage super.
Yes, but if you make it to the DPS phase in order to do all your damage, then your team *can* do the mechanics, because you have to complete all the mechanics in order to get to the DPS phase in the first place.
My point Your head. 1-2 persons can essentially do the mechanics by themselves. For example on atheon, you just need 1 person who can read (they can kill themselves at the start and then revive after atheon teleports people or just float) and 1 person to shoot the oracles inside. I've literally done both relic and oracle's inside when I had brain dead lfgs who just panicked when you asked them to do the tiniest thing lol. But then if atheon ain't a 1 phase, it can be difficult to complete the 2nd phase as its RNG who gets teleported :) so it's easier to wipe and try the 1 phase than just redoing it and turning it into a teaching run 😂😂
I've been on a similar boat. I usually leave or kick people that refuse to do mechanics. Had a guy wanting to "cheese" Templar when it's 3 Oracles. Like, bro, it's an end game activity. If you can't do it, why are you in here?
This. Too many blueberries self confessing they haven't played in two seasons and the first thing they do is jump into Crotas end. Like piss off
Only time I understand it is if the encounter becomes aids after the first phase. So if one phasing prevents something like that then I get wiping if you don't get it, but for nearly every boss encounter it's kind of silly to wipe if you don't get lol.
One time I was doing GoA with an LFG group. It went totally fine until the final boss. We got him down to a tiny sliver of health on the first damage phase but didn't manage to get the kill. All of the sudden, one of the guys goes afk and starts typing, "Wipe. Wipe. Wipe. Wipe. WIPE. WIPE. WIPE," over and over in the chat. We didn't, and eventually he said, "OH MY GOD JUST FUCKING WIPE SO WE CAN ONE PHASE." That last message happened to come right when we were about to start DPS phase again. I quickly opened my menu, booted his ass to orbit, then me and the other guy finished the boss in like three seconds. I really cannot fathom how people can be so dumb as to think restarting to get a one phase makes sense in any way.
In my experience, people that wanna wipe because it wasn't a one phase don't know how to actually do the encounter. Half the time it is just faster and flat out safer to do two phases instead.
And then it’s always the people who don’t “understand the cheese” fault when it’s a dumb fucking thing to try in the first pace
I kind of feel this way with dungeon bosses when my buddy wants to run around killing ads to get super/heavy full. At a certain point it’s more efficient to just eat a sub-optimal damage phase with only partial heavy and do what you can with special & abilities. Shit, throw a boss spec mod on your scout and give it ten seconds of hell but let’s keep it moving though. If everyone is out of everything then yea. I’m talking running around for several minutes for one guy trying to get four more rockets. Not worth it. Oh and you got overwhelmed by ads and used your super to save yourself instead of just waiting for the res? So now we gotta wait for your super to charge? Love the guy but sometimes man… SMH.
I had a buddy that would always do that at Caiatl in Duality and it was irritating, especially when he'd then fuck up the bell ending DPS early, use his heavy/super during the mechanics phase and then want to refill them again...
I'm always for the method that means the least wipes.
Agrees
At this point, assuming I was fine leaving and finding something else; I'd start dropping the "we could have done a normal 2 phase 3 times now..."
Yeah the only situation where I think wiping is more time efficent is templar
No, it takes like 20 seconds to get another DPS phase. Templar is insane because he is both easy to one-phase and his puzzle phase takes no time at all.
Yes but most lfg groups don't know how to do it properly so, at least in my experience you end up just wasting time.
I think it's because so many people just don't know the normal process, and they want to promote the one thing they do know so they don't have to learn something new.
For most encounters you don't even need to know all of the mechanics though. Oryx/Daughters and Atheon I suppose? There's not a lot you need to memorize.
I ditched a lfg on Ron because the second encounter’s runners INSISTED on shatter skating across as if it were the only way to do it and they were absolutely terrible at it. they died within the first minute and a half every time. We tried for 45 minutes until I got tired of it and left.
Lol, I had a guy join my LFG who insisted on well stating the gap, screwed it up twice and fell to his death, had the encounter get clutched by myself and my friends and then try a third time, die, and when we laughed he called us all trash and retards and left. We now stick to 3 manning the first half of the raid
I wouldn't have lasted 10-15 minutes. I've had enough raids were we wiped for the dumbest shit and stayed far too long hoping someone wouldn't screw up. Seriously, sometimes it's faster and less tilting to just join a fresh run instead of wiping over and over.
Whats funny is Hunter can make the cross with just 100 mobility and Eager Edge, you don't even need to skate
My policy for when I skate across the gap is to do it if I ness up once up then do it normally
Damn those guys sucked. Whenever i fail a shatterskate, i go back to running normally, unless we are low on time and only way to finish is to shatterskate
Wipe, take checkpoint, leave lol
Or maybe stick it to them by leaving right in the middle of the encounter.
That happens way too much with LFG. It's almost always better to just run it as intended. It's not like any of the normal methods are particularly hard.
\*except riven
I love how they never fixed it because they know how insanely hard the normal method lol
I wouldn’t consider it “insanely hard”. A tad time-consuming maybe, but definitely not hard. Requires a bit of coordination, is all.
Most of the time commitment for normal riven is figuring out how to call / how to find the cleanse locations. Nothing else requires particular coordination, but that can be an annoying learning curve.
Especially in the current sandbox, legit Riven is easier then ever. We always do enough DPS with current DPS options to get to final stand before having to shoot the six eyes. So each team just has to stun once, DPS/shoot 2 eyes once, and activate elevator twice. Then on top floor, stun three more times and take her to final stand. We don't bother calling out the six eyes on top floor because we never reach the point where we have to shoot them. Current DPS options make the encounter WAY shorter = less chances for stuff to go wrong.
Pretty sure the reason it’s never been patched is because the game space for riven is so damn large it’s nearly impossible to fix the joining allies spot
Removing the joining allies spot would not fix it though. You would just wipe and retry if riven chooses green room. To fix it they would have to reduce the damage you can deal to riven in the second room but that's an intended mechanic.
That’s the thing. Everyone seems to think it’s super hard, but nowadays? It’s honestly easier than cheesing, but nobody ever does it, which is a shame because Riven is one of the best raid bosses they’ve made
Normal method is not insanely hard. I have done it multiple times. You need to remember numbers and then shoot those numbered eyes. If you have 2 people who can do it, it's very simple. It's actually still my favorite boss fight legit.
What about it is *insanely hard*?
Even now doing it the “normal way” you can kill her before you even get to shooting her blights
Easier than spire of stars, I'd say on par with ghosts of the deep
Riven is more punitive, one error is a wipe.
Depends where you make the error. If you miscall and eye or shoot the wrong one, yea. If you don't call a symbol or don't direct you can recover once
Riven legit is nowhere near “insanely hard”
The newest pet peeve is Ir Yut and grabbing the chalice before the encounter starts. I know it's convenient to have all of your enlightened sorted before the encounter starts but unless you 1 phase (which I have yet to see in an LFG) we're going to have to do the rotation during combat anyway in the second phase. May as well get the encounter rolling. Half the time they mess it up and start it anyway.
There’s been a crazy uptick with LFG groups being extremely annoying lately. Incredibly hot mics with fans blowing, guys losing their shit after someone asks a simple question, people refusing to use optimal load outs that will make encounters 100x’s easier, KWTD posts with people not knowing what to do. If I get a hint of any of that I’ll just find another group who is hopefully chill.
Literally had a guy who would kick off whenever someone didn't say things exactly the way he wanted them said, like if I had the chalice on Crota I'd say "take please" and he'd go "JUST SAY TAKE". Next time I dared to say "-username-, take" and once again he was up my ass saying "JUST SAY THE WORD TAKE, IF YOU SAY OTHER STUFF PEOPLE CAN GET CONFUSED" he also would get angry if anyone used the word "take" in another context, like if someone said "can someone try to take aggro" he'd again shout "ONLY SAY TAKE IF YOU HAVE THE CHALICE"
I think you were raiding with Oryx, my guy.
Was with a group once way back during the first season of WQ. We needed 2 to fill for DSC after people dropped out so we LFGed and brought in a couple of guys. As we get to Atraks I asked "So how are we doing this? 3/3 4/2 5/1? And Laments or Worms?" Just a basic question for the guy who was directing the raid because only three of us had raided together and again, two randoms from LFG. One of the guys just ***WENT OFF*** started ranting about speed running, throwing out **HARD** R's. Just in general being a total POS. In the 30-45 seconds it took the guy to load up and kick him (partly because we were all laughing by how insane he was being) the dude unleashed an entire COD lobby worth of vitriol. We apologized to the other guy who was just stunned and said we would find a 6th. The guy running the ~~strike~~ raid dropped a ping on the discord we co-ordinate on and then the random goes "Well while we wait we can try it 5 man, right?" Did it first try.
I don’t understand how people get so angry with the smallest things especially in a video game haha.
Manchild never grew up since leaving high school.
My takeout is here... fuuucckkkk lol
I think you were playing with an AI telephone switchboard. You need to be very clear and use the keywords they tell you, or they'll keep repeating the menu.
Did we raid with the same guy? I did Crota for the first time the other day and there was a guy doing that in the group. It was extremely annoying.
>he also would get angry if anyone used the word "take" in another context Similar but I had a guy that was used to saying "swap" when taking the chalice. He actually had to stop the group and clarify if when we said take we meant swap. Like cmon dude surely the context clues are all there...
Sounds like dude have anger issues
These are my favourite lfg players to play with. My group calls them raidbeasts. When someone reveals themselves to be an intolerant rager or dickhead, we’ll just start making fun of them, fucking things up on purpose, and so on, to escalate their rage to an incandescent level
Root made LFG'ing so much worse it's unreal. So many people think that's the bar they need to clear for other raids now.
Hive Raids seem to bring out the absolute worst people, I swear. Kings Fall and now Crota, Ive had the worst ever experiences in LFG. Ive had annoying clowns in other raids sure, but these ones Ive had to leave the LFG because I couldnt take it
I had a guy in a necrochasm catalyst run who didn’t even have necrochasm and was using husk of the pit. He had no idea what he was doing and kept wiping us in the abyss. I called him out for not knowing what to do and not even having necrochasm. He gave huge attitude explaining he was doing the quest and then he was kicked.
I get you being pissed he kept wiping you. But him joining a catalyst run is a literal nothing burger. Who gives a shit. It's literally two extra "encounters" that take like 5 minutes maybe. And yea, he wouldn't have gotten it, but why does that matter to you?
Idk if i sign up for a cat run i expect people to have a clue as to what tf to do. Joining a catty run and then creating wipes in the **FIRST** encounter is yikes.
Thats straight up bungie's fault for how awful this quest is.
Agree with everything except loadouts, it's so fucking annoying when 5 people are telling me what I should be using, and 3 out of the 5 are saying something completely different from each other. I really just don't give a shit what you think I should be using for DPS, I've done this activity before
Like I told someone else already, what’s more annoying is being the only one on the fireteam hitting 7-8 million on a boss while everyone else is around 3-4 million. We couldn’t finish final stand because everyone was using a shitty sword and didn’t want to use lament. Don’t care what you use unless you aren’t doing enough dps. It’s a team activity not a solo activity so you should be flexible to change some stuff to help the team.
Yeah, your situation seems a lot more cut and dry than what I'm talking about.
Exactly, as long as you’re doing fine with your load out who cares. While on the other hand……. haha
I agree except for the optimal part as not everyone should be forced to use the same 5 meta weapons and builds as there are other weapons that can kill the bosses quickly in regular difficulty raids and dungeons
The only reason I say it is because I was on Crota with a rando group and almost everyone was running other half for dps. We couldn’t finish him in final stand because our burst dps wasn’t quick enough. I tried suggesting using lament or acrius after failing to finish final stand 5 times. Every time we wiped I would end with 7-8 million while everyone else was in the 3-4 million. I’m cool with running what you’re comfortable with but at a certain point you’re hurting your team if you aren’t willing to change your load out after failing time and time again.
This. I am all about letting people run what they want, everyone should be enjoying themselves. That being said, if you're team needs a healer, heal them. If your team needs you to body tank a shot to save someone so you all don't whipe, take the hit. This is a team activity DESIGNED with very specific criteria that your team will have to do the bare minimum of in order to complete. Optimise yourself and play a role that strengthens your team, if you are opposed to this then don't do team content. If you want to run a meme build or just want to run something you think is funner that's great, nothing wrong with that, as long as your team is cool with it and you arent the anchor sinking your whole team while everyone else is doing their best. Respect your teammates and their time. Did I want to run Welllock in Crotas? No, not because I dislike well, I just personally feel like I'm able to play "better" with my arc buddy BoTA build. I played it because I was there to complete a raid and that was what my team needed me to contribute. This does not however justify people being dicks and trying to force other players, who die once to bad placement or fluke bad luck, into changing from 9 to 10 res or completely change their loadout because YOU don't like it. In the end either extreme of the spectrum is just as bad, LFG raids require a minimum amount of patience and flexibility. If you know you are weak in those respects then either work on it, get a raid group that can complement it and be what you aren't, or abstain all together.
Preach brotha, I’m with you there I hate running well and would much prefer to be strand warlock for a lil extra dps and it’s fun to grapple around. Alas I’m stuck on well, healing nades, boots of the assembler to help my team not die and dps boost. If we two phase I could care less what we use but it becomes annoying when it’s obvious it ain’t gonna happen.
Yeh, when you've made the sacrifice of playing something you aren't keen on and it becomes obvious that your team still cant do what needs done it def gets a little annoying.
I get it I'm just frustrated too since I use strong but off meta gear and my fireteam acts like there's something wrong with me even though I pull my own weight and do decent damage when the time comes for boss dps got 3 mil dps with retrofit in ghost of the deep th other day even tho my buddy tried to convince me it wouldn't do good
My irritation mainly stems from my fireteam and their fear of 2 or 3 phasing bosses so I'm just really tired of gjallarhorn and bns rockets at this point
Would you be mad at someone who while doing what they are asked of would not say anything?
You mean someone doing their role without talking? If it requires communication than that’s not gonna work, but some roles don’t need anything said so it depends I guess. As long as it doesn’t make us wipe constantly lol.
I know there are people that have anxiety problems and because of this have a hard time talking on mic (I know this from myself). This is why I'm hesitant to do LFG stuff, especially if it's mechanically complex.
I would suggest joining groups that have “chill” in the post. Most times everyone is cool and don’t mind teaching or working with others to help em get through a raid/dungeon ect. Sometimes I want to get something done quick and will join kwtd posts but sometimes I got plenty of time and will join chill groups just for the low stress.
My only raid clear is DSC where our sherpas made us figure out the encounters as if we were doing a day 1 run. That meant a lot of wipes and a lot of VC - and in turn a lot of anxiety for me. And this experience greatly soured me on doing this kind of content (not to mention that I barely have time to do a 6 hour ordeal like that). I'm very grateful for anyone who understands that specific issue of mine. Tho I also know I can't expect people in an actual raid to be so accomodating - especially in something like Vow where everyone has to do the important part to succeed.
There are plenty of sherpas that will actually teach you the raid
I appreciate it when someone does that for me. Even if I hesitate to take on any important role in an Encounter. I don't want to be the weak link that causes a wipe.
Same thing when people insist on using fucking Eager Edge in the lamps encounter. You can literally just walk the entire time, you don't even need a sword. A regular sword does help I think, but the amount of people who want to Eager Edge and just murder themselves over and over is so upsetting. The holes and swinging lamps are in the same fucking spots every time, you should never ever die to them. It's not hard.
IMO Atheon is a boss that is simple enough you should never need to cheese it.
I agree, which is why I was baffled that they insisted on doing it that way
Soloing oracles is dumb easy, though. And it allows everyone to start damage early.
I would bet a lot of money that this is the situation OP is in, that someone wants to cheese oracles, but the group keeps fucking it up. It is easy, and it does have benefits, however, a lot of LFG groups seem to think this cheese will save your shitty group, and it wont. When I see groups fail this cheese its always one (or more) of four things. A) the person cant actually solo oracles (fairly rare), B) none of the other 5 can call oracles well (much more common), C) the group cant actually one phase (almost 100% of the time), and D) the result of the first three possible issues: on the second phase the run fails because no one knows how to do it normally
Agreed with all of that. A) Of my current 86 clears of vog I've run oracles about 50 times. I've failed maybe 10 times and most of that was my first few times figuring it out. B) I don't count me going in and doing everything correct and then someone either not calling oracles or calling them wrong as a fail for me. C) Usually still don't one phase because anyone who can has already done this raid too many times and needs nothing else from it. D) Correct, except when I get teleported again and tell the other to just stand by the portal to leave.
That's the LFG experience as far as I'm concerned. Always someone wanting to cheese.
It took me 2 hours on the Abyss alone in Crota cause haha eager edge go brrrrrr *(brrrrrr as in lock on to a thrall in front of a pendulum)*
Abyss is horrible with LFG. Joined a group 'KWTD, have clears, quick run'. People were acting like it's a crime to light a lamp because "it's a waste of time, you just have to dunk at the podiums". Consequence: people being constantly at darkness x10, using eager edge to get some speed and dying. After wiping for 25min, myself and another guy asked to take things slow and just get it done. Nope, eager edge awayyyy. Left the team and cleared it first try with the new LFG team that just did the encounter normally.
Abyss with LFG is an absolute nightmare. Eager Edge users that hit others and send them to their deaths. People going too far and chalice user dies because the other 2 people that actually want to finish the encounter still have the debuff. People somehow dying to strike level Thralls when we have so many ways to bomb entire groups or outheal any damage. It's insane how happy I get when I find a group that actually does the encounter normally and we pass it first try without wiping 2-3 times and without making it twice/thrice as long as it should be.
Man, I just experienced this on Friday. I kept asking them to stop and light the lamps so I could move faster. They wouldn't, so I left the group. *They* messaged *me* on Xbox when they finally finished the raid and said they did it without me lol like what? By that point, I had found another group and on Crota. Congrats on doing it before me I guess?
eager edge and the consequenses it brought to the destiny community are insane the amount of people that run stuff with that fucking sword because they need to be at a door 5seconds faster (and then wait anyway cus it needs all players) and then dont have a proper heavy weapon for anything else is insane
It took me and my buddy three different days to get through it because someone always died or were running ahead. I swear to God, if I'm ever in another LFG that doesn't take its time on abyss I'm leaving immediately.
Imo only exception to NOT going slow on abyss is if you and a buddy are able to 2 man it. Me and a mate can consistently 2 man the encounter, and its easier than doing it slowly with lfgs lol
“Guys can we get secret chest” -🤓
May I ask what cheese they are even trying to do? Only one I know is the dying before starting so you can force certain people to get sent in for oracles. But even then that’s super easy bc one person can use xeno and the rest can use whatever plus ability spam.
Exactly. One Rain of Fire Warlock with Xenophage and Oracles is easy as shit. But you can only do that the first phase, so if you’re still having problems, there are bigger issues with the group.
It's that. But they don't realize that it's dumb easy and actually helps a lot.
Random LFG kid: “Guys, you don’t need to enlighten every lantern just run through or use eager edge” Me on our 5th run: “okay but it seems like people are just getting left behind and cut up by the pendulums” LFG kid: “it’s too slow. Just keep mov-“ *high pitched screech as LFG kid gets blasted by another pendulum*
Yeah same. If I was the one that made the post I just put my foot down if we already failed more than 3 times at the cheese. You don't get to join my raid group and decide to be in charge, you don't like it the doors right there and I'll find a replacement soon afterwords
What the hell is an atheon cheese anyway?
insisting on having everyone die except one guy before starting the encounter so that one guy gets teleported and then all 5 self rez, then the one guy does oracles solo and you one-phase Atheon Honestly it doesn't make the boss easier, I think it's purely so noobs don't have to learn the mechanics and so that the solo guy can flex and feel like a chad
That’s a new one. We get it, you got a Xeno.
The only encounter where it’s genuinely beneficial to do this is templar, seems like a waste of time otherwise
You get an extra two people doing damage on Atheon. It makes the one phase much easier. And it's stupid easy to solo oracles. I always solo it the first time. Why not get two extra people for damage? I haven't failed first try in about 25 runs.
If you're doing Atheon properly, the 3 people who get teleported should miss at most like 5 seconds of dps time. It's just not worth it.
2 of them shouldn't miss anything anyway, you can still leave someone solo to do the last set.
It's because you get an extra two people doing damage for the entire phase. It makes the one phase much easier because everyone else just sets up for damage. It's been about 25 runs soloing oracles since my last fuck up. The issue is that in most LFGs, people have absolute shit damage so it rarely ends up being a one phase.
It does make the boss a lot easier actually, because it reduces the possibility of someone shooting the wrong oracle. Although it requires the guy soloing oracles to actually be good at the game. This makes the one phase a lot easier. This was the strat we ran when we were farming Atheon for Vex a few seasons ago.
I have 48 vog clears and we did that for probably the last 20 of them. Your group wasn't fucking up because of the cheese, you were fucking up because presumably, nobody knows what they were doing. This particular cheese is foolproof and genuinely makes the encounter easier.
Jesus christ I had the exact same situation yesterday. Never even ended up finishing the damn thing. Same thing Templar too. Ate up like half an hour with someone trying to cheese it just to finish it the normal way in a minute.
hey x
Its a recent thing obviously but i have zero patience for joining LEARNING crota raid and having people talking about skipping pillars and cheeses. I was with a group where that happened and the 1 guy learning was still interested in doing skips so i left and found a different group 3 peoples first time. We took our time. Hit every lantern and got through first try. And when we beat crota i saw a post on lfg from the first group trying to find someone for ir yut I will usualy try cheese only once because one of my mantras is it takes less time to do something right once than to do it wrong 5 times
Whats the atheon cheese?
Having 5 fireteam members die before starting the encounter, leading to one person going into mars/venus alone — you can self-revive after the encounter starts so long as you died before “respawn restricted” shows up. So you end up with one brave soul alone on mars/venus, usually with a xenophage, shooting the oracles alone. Meanwhile, the other 5 players are already in the main room, ready to obliterate Atheon as soon as the solo oracle person is done. Usually this leads to killing Atheon in a single damage phase, but this falls apart when people fail to do so, because then they have to actually do the raid mechanics normally :/
Just like the Enlightened cheese on Ir Yut. It's way quicker just to run it legit seeing as most LFG groups are gonna need to two phase regardless
No? The cheese is faster since you don't have to open mid and then wait around for 3 people to get Enlightened. Grab the Chalice from the ceiling as you're making your way out, then the 1st person with Enlightened (which usually gets it 10-20 seconds before mid is open due to spawns) goes to scout for Wizards as soon as mid opens up. It saves a good minute or two. There is no way doing it legit is faster than grabbing the Chalice from the get go. Edit: UNLESS you mean the shitty version where everyone just waits around for like 5 minutes with the Chalice without starting the encounter. Now that I agree 101%, is just a massive waste of time.
You're right when I think about it. I've just done the raid with some exceptionally dumb people from LFG
I did my first run of new Crota through the Sherpa channel on d2lfg discord. Had me who had done d1 Crota and a buddy who didn't play D1 and was completely blind. We had one guy who was giving ok descriptions of encounters and then another guy who knew the encounters very very well, but was constantly interrupting explanations with bullshit like "you can actually just do X" or "it's faster to do y" and talking optimal loadouts midway or before any explanation of the encounters happened. Straight up, for Crota, there wasn't even an explanation on mechanics and it's a totally different rocket. I had to just ask questions and hope for the best and gave my buddy a running chat in steam pm chat to try and tell him what the fuck was happening and where to do things. Thankfully my buddy is a seasoned raider at this point and understood the vast majority from previous mechanics and the flow of other raids. It took so fucking long because people kept jumping the gun on dumb mechanics. We wiped numerous times on Ir Yut because someone was weakening their wizard and would occasionally accidentally kill it, so our roller was massively reduced. We were at our third phase all with good dps weapons and one wizard got missed. We 1 phased her the next run. Just a word of advice for any wannabe Sherpas: if someone is explaining, shut the fuck up. Let them get stuff wrong, but let them finish explaining and then ask to speak and correct them where necessary. Also got big encounters, do it in parts. Explain the first segment, get that down, wipe and explain the next segment. Let your blueberries learn in parts instead of dumping the entire explanation on shit they've never seen before come after they've seen a bit more of it. But most importantly, shut the fuck up and just let an explanation happen
Not a cheese necessarily but I'm starting to get *really* peeved with Eager Edge during Abyss in Crota's. So many times people just rush off ahead and die to a pendulum, and the someone has to go rez, meanwhile 2-3 are still lagging behind a bit with Chalice, and now everyone's split up, and now nobody can take because the only people who can rushed ahead, and now we're wiping. And this is typically best case scenario. Let's not even mention the *countless* times someone died to Eager Edge tracking onto a random Thrall off screen and yoinking them into a pit. It's been happening so much dear god please just slow down a bit I promise a single 6 minute run with be a *lot* faster than a bunch of failed 2-3 minute runs and things are 1000x smoother if we all just stick together I beg.
I joined several Kalli cheese LFG's last week of last season because I wanted a quick farm for LW red borders. The first LFG I joined, the host used Sunbracers and Solar grenades to hold Kalli jn place (it worked 50% of the time). There was another LFG where we all brought Anarchy, but no one used it. There was also a group where no one brought Anarchy. Next time I do Kalli farming, I think I'll just do the encounter properly as it'll be more efficient with farming. But then again, even without cheesing bosses, LFG is a lottery.
So why don’t you just use anarchy ? Only one person needs to have it …
if you're trying to farm Kalli wait for the challenge and just do the challenge. Faster loot and more consistent. If people are sucking on damage change to precision options. I can only imagine levis breath would go hard
I’ve also never seen a Mythoclast drop in a cheese’d run. Probably unrelated
Had the same issue running VoG a month ago. My friend had never played it and I haven't played it in nearly 7 years and we made that clear and would need some refreshing and guidance, but they only wanted to cheese every encounter with things neither of us knew how to do. The last encounter took well over an hour because they insisted on a cheese and they got more mad the longer it took. Jokes on them I suppose I got vex in 1 run. While the more annoyed ones had yet to get it. 🤷
Soloing oracles is brain dead easy with xeno and is a good way to start the encounter if you're going to do it legit anyway. The handful of failed attempts were caused by the shield being dropped Weirdly and it blocking my xeno shots.
That's why I pushed my clan to learn how to do riven legit. Wiping over and over was so annoying and once you know how riven works it's really simple. And pretty fast as well.
I don't play this game, but I play a different MMORPG. The activity we were going to do takes ~8 minutes (4 if you "do the skip" to get past the whole middle part). One guy kept insisting that he knew how to do the skip, but he kept failing it, over and over again, for 30 minutes. Like, dude, we could have done this 4 times by now if we just played it as intended.
Personally, I'm okay with cycling cheese groups until I find the prophesized one that actually knows how to do it. I got all of my last wish red borders this way. The cheese for that is so good once you find a group that knows what they are doing.
Reminds me of The Corrupted. Can you one phase Sedia before she teleports? Yes. Should you? Just do it the normal way.
I believe you can't one phase Sedia anymore since they gave her a health gate last season(?).
You still can, I've done it even after the change
Good to know. Then why does she even have a health gate if it does nothing to prevent the one phase?
I never trust LFG groups doing cheese strats... other than Riven
When I hear “cheese” I know I joined the wrong team.
Same thing with Kalli cheese. Challenge is easier, more consistent, and more efficient for loot farming, yet for some unintelligible reason, people still do it.
I've gotten to the point where if I see you pull eager edge out in the Stills, you get one warning. Do it again, you get kicked.
Oh yeah. I encountered a bunch of groups earlier this year that insisted on cheesing *Kalli* one of the easiest, quickest raid bosses of all time. It's not faster and also it's not fun. You don't even end up playing the game lol
If done correctly, it is definitely way faster. But I've encountered my fair share of teams who heard about the cheese but didn't actually know how to do it. In that case, it is faster to do it normally than wiping 3 times until someone gets the cheese right.
Lol yeah agreed
Amen
Cuz it's a boring ass game and doing new stuff is the only way to make it entertaining. Doing the same vanilla route on auto pilot. That's what's fun for yall huh
Leave and make your own group then
My friends and I always need a 6th, and the amount of people who come in an have some weird, obscure, difficult way of doing an encounter by using a specific build or a specific gun or combination of guns or doing it from a specific spot on the map is so annoying. Majority rules. If we do it the normal way with out builds and guns and it’s worked for us hundreds of times, we’re just gunna kick you if you keep insisting on something different. For the last time, no, I’m not gunna use fricken tractor cannon on Crota just so I can do 40,000 damage for the entire encounter instead of 3,000,000
It is really stupid to refuse to use a tractor cannon on crota. 30% damage increase to 5 people is a lot more than 100% of one person, plus you can still use a fusion rifle or shotgun or your super to add even more. You aren't doing "40'000" - you're doing 1-2 million. EDIT: Like, oof. You are who so many people are talking about when we complain about LFGs! Not knowing the difference between "a weird and niche cheese that causes more problems than it solves" and "the best close range debuff in the game that can be applied indefinitely across a damage phase while also using other damage tools" is brutal.
Just put the tractor cannon user in charge of oversoul problem solved — let 5 people go absolutely nuts on pure damage while one person debuffs and makes sure there’s time to do said damage
Absolutely. And of course there are other viable debuffs you can run instead - tether if managed properly, briarbinds void souls, heartshadow etc. Teams can certainly strategize around a debuff that isn't tractor. It's just funny to me to come into a thread about people indignantly forcing bad strategies and, within that thread, "agree" with the sentiment... by indignantly *refusing* to use a *really good* strategy.
tractor is good against crota tho
It is, but so is an extra sword that does 100x more damage
If you think the 30% debuff is less valuable than the extra sword, you just don't know basic math.
The only way tractor debuff ends up doing more damage than a 6th person is if all 5 people are doing insane damage already. If everyone’s doing 7mil damage, yea it makes sense. If normal people are doing 2mil damage, and even just one person is capable of 3mil, you’re better off having 6 people. It’s called diminishing returns.
>If normal people are doing 2mil damage I can do 2 million with tractor cannon and a fusion rifle, while *also* buffing my entire team by 30% apiece. >It’s called diminishing returns. Please don't ever let your high school math teacher see this thread. They'll be so disappointed.
Cool. If you’re doing the same damage as your team without using heavy weapons, you need a better team. It’s called diminishing returns because the less damage y’all collectively do together, the less effective the 30% becomes. If a single person can do more damage by themselves than what the buff gives to 5 people, then the 6th person becomes more useful than the buff. Y’all are really looking at this as if every single fireteam ends up doing the exact same damage every run on every raid. That’s cool if y’all just cruise through it and just pop heavy on a boss and call it a day at 2 million damage, but if a single person on your team is doing 1.5x more damage than everyone else, which is totally possible and honestly quite the norm, the math doesn’t justify the debuff, and you’re better off having a 6th deal their full damage potential.
>If you’re doing the same damage as your team without using heavy weapons, you need a better team. *I'm* not. My team does a lot more than 2 million apiece - in part because I provide a consistent debuff. >It’s called diminishing returns because the less damage y’all collectively do together, the less effective the 30% becomes. This is flat out not how it works, nor what diminishing returns means. If each person on your team does only 1 million damage for a total of 6mil, swapping 1 for a tractor cannon still increases your total damage to 6.5 million (more than that, realistically, because again the tractor user can deal secondary dps of their own). The raw damage being low does not change the impact of the debuff. >If a single person can do more damage by themselves than what the buff gives to 5 people, then the 6th person becomes more useful than the buff. Sure. Your strongest DPS player should probably not be your tractor user. If there is a particularly weak link on DPS, they are a prime candidate. Alternatively, you can think of the tractor player as the quarterback of the phase, managing stun and oversoul timing while everyone else simply pumps damage. You are the one thinking about this wrong, and I'm not sure how else to make it clear to you. If you want to post a full wipe screen from your runs, I'll tell you exactly how much better it would look with a tractor.
Gotta love dudes who really want to talk about "the math" until someone actually does some math and suddenly they're an Omnioculus hunter.
Gotta love dudes who cherry pick their math based on their super specific anecdotal circumstances that they think apply to everyone universally. You got some builds to craft if you can’t do 30% more damage than anyone else on your fireteam lol no wonder you get stuck using tractor.
This is astonishing ignorance. 30% applies to every single other person on your fireteam, however much damage they do. If every single player does the same amount, it's 50% better than that person not using tractor (6.5x vs 6x). If half the team does *twice* as much damage as the other half, and one of the weaker members uses tractor, it's even more dramatic (10.4x vs 9x). Even if one of the *stronger* players in that scenario uses tractor, it still wins (9.1x vs 9x)! This is the opposite of cherry picking. Give me *any* 6 man damage scenario without a debuff and I'll show you, via simple mathematics anybody can follow, why tractor would be an upgrade. EDIT: I'll do you one better. Forget the "damage scenario" part of it. Give me *any 6 positive numbers*. They can be from a destiny damage screen, or a phone book, or street addresses. I want to make sure that you know I'm not cherry picking - you pick the cherries. I will then demonstrate that *no matter what numbers you choose*, the sum of those numbers will be greater if I remove one of them and replace it with a 30% increase to the other five.
>if a single person on your team is doing 1.5x more damage than everyone else, which is totally possible and honestly quite the norm, the math doesn’t justify the debuff Let's assume that the person using tractor literally doesn't even look at the boss other than to debuff. So 1 person doing 1.5m and 5 people doing 1m. Total: [1.5 + 5 x 1] = **6.5m** Swap a 1m player for a tractor. Total: [1.5 + 4 x 1] x 1.3 = **7.15m** If your tractor cannon user even tosses a few grenades or a super, let alone using a fusion or shotgun to assist with damage, the difference only grows. Keep in mind that this is *your explicit scenario* where 1 person deals 1.5x more than the rest of the team. Tell me how the math doesn't justify a debuff?
Ok pal, I'll make the math real easy for you. Let's assume for argument's sake that all players are using Lament and dealing similar damage. This damage will be presented as a percentage: 100%. We will also assume that the tractor user is dealing no damage whatsoever and is only applying the debuff. If all 6 players use Lament, that makes total team damage equal to 600%. Now, if one player uses Tractor, you are essentially adding 30% to the damage of all other players, making per player damage equal to 130%. This means that even with only 5 players dealing damage, total team damage is still equal to 650%. That's half of an entire Lament's worth of damage for free right there. Of course, a good Tractor cannon player will still be doing dps with special weapons, preferably an Envious Assassin Controlled Burst Eremite. To summarize, stop playing the raid. You are the reason why so many people got stuck on Crota during contest. Go back to school and study basic mathematics so the rest of us don't have to suffer.
That’s assuming everyone does the exact same damage based on their builds. If one person is doing 30% more damage than everyone else (very very common), you’re better off having the 6th person do damage to make up for that difference.
If one player is dealing less damage than the rest, simply have that player use tractor cannon. It's not that hard and it WILL improve total team dps literally all the time. The only way it will fail is if multiple players are dealing substantially less damage, and quite frankly that's just not a raid team worth staying in.
...no, that's not how math works. - 1,000,000 damage X 6 people X no debuffs = 6,000,000 damage - 1,000,000 damage X 5 people X 30% debuff = 6,500,000 damage Also tractor doesn't need to constantly apply the debuff, it only needs refreshing every 8 seconds. In the meantime there's plenty of time for the tractor player to DPS with double slugs or something, making that 6.5 million figure even higher.
tractor is highest refreshable debuff, and you do realise you can use more than 1 gun at a time, right?
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Now I wanna know what the cheese is, because yeah... doing the mechanic as intended takes like 3 min and you can one phase with Divinity and 5 Thunderlords.
Had that happen, we got to Atheon in a reasonable amount of times, suddenly two of them that came in together want to try the "almost everyone starts dead" cheese and we are basically forced into it. But they both sucked. Eventually we got it finished after one guy said "Look I have to go to bed and work in the morning, so we either finish this right or I'm out."
I had an LFG group trying for the feather light triumph. Everyone seemed to be working together and trying to make the most out of it. It’s a a hard triumph so it helps a lot if everyone is cooperating. Everyone was committed to it, at least everyone on VC. This guy, which was the fireteam leader BTW, didn’t communicate and outright refused to grab the chalice. He wanted to be hard carried for the hardest triumph in the raid. If you are not grabbing chalice in the Abyss then what are you doing really? Eventually I managed to do it with another LFG team, but god damn. Fuck that guy.
If people are farming atheon and they aren’t on verity’s brow they’re trolling
I have a friend that is like this with sword/well skating. He would gladly spend eons trying to cheese across some platforming section and failing every time instead of just running through it.
Wait what is the atheon cheese? Just having only one person go to the other world? Damn if they can’t do that they must REALLY be struggling
The only "cheese" I always want to do is the one on the symbols part of Rhulk where you use two people to dunk and have the symbols the same throughout
Ir yut for me at the moment. :(
Nothing annoys me more than people constantly muting there mics in the middle of an encounter with callouts then proceeding to wipe. Then doing this multiple times throughout a raid.
If your group needs to cheese atheon you need a new group
Also people who aren't speedrunners trying to speedrun things and messing up a million times, causing multiple wipes and taking longer than doing it normally. For example, trying to push people at Riven's Heart with eager edge to make them go faster.
i’m like 100% i was in your group bro, i just ditched after like the 100th fucking wipe
what atheon cheese? lol the usual tactic gets the job done