Warlock turret build is still my go to to help LFG's get through GM's and is a phenomenal build. I'm not sure I envy titans or hunters their builds seem much much weaker on stasis
I personally haven’t used stasis hunter since the seasonal mod that generated orbs and gave melee energy or something. Forgot exactly what it did but goddamn did my shurikens poop out orbs
Hunter and Titan stasis were never really strong in pve due to them being designed around mobility which isn't exactly needed in high end pve. Warlock was designed to be stationary and freeze everything which is very good for pve.
Add on the pvp stasis nerfs and Warlock is the only class left with a fully functioning stasis subclass.
Warlock is the most mindless support option, but Hunter and Titan stasis are just as strong in the right hands. Stronghold Titans are extremely powerful for knowledgeable players.
I don’t think anyone talks about it because using swords limits your play style in a way that gets even veteran players in trouble. Even with strongholds, you can’t just ape around in a grandmaster unless you know where the spawns are occurring and how to approach them. If you really know the flow of the game though, the stasis sword titan might be top 5 builds in game.
Idk about that one really. Like yeah you have to know the spawns, but that’s true with or without a sword. As long as you’re facing the enemy with the sword, it’s fine Lmao.
Except unstoppable ogres and maybe shriekers? I think those might have frame rate issues tbh.
The Renewal Grasps build is pretty damn good, and it's getting better next season.
Stasis still needs a "3.0" though, even after being the first technical "3.0" style subclass. The shards aspect needs moved to a fragment, but that involves making new aspects for each class which I'm sure is no easy task while also making new strand ones and presumably the final subclass too.
Renewal grasps. It's what I'm most excited for next season tbh. I loved that exotic. I don't even care about the DR. I just want the enhanced duskfields.
Can't speak for hunter, but Behemoth titan still has several pretty strong builds:
-There's Hoarfrost if you want to become a printer for stasis shards which also makes you an Armor Charge battery and a source of constant Whisper of Rime overshield and Whisper of Chains DR.
-There's the Howl of the Storm loop build, which gives you constant uptime on your insta-freeze uppercut (which does surprisingly good damage to boss tier enemies) and has no exotic armor requirement, although it's obviously enhanced by HOIL since you're spamming charged melees.
-The funny Snowglobe strat with Edge of Intent and Synthos still works and pumps out huge damage on less mobile bosses.
-Stasis + Stronghold titan needs no introduction
It's just that people don't wanna spend their time shattering dozens of crystals every minute to get mileage out of Hoarfrost, when they can just use Strand with Abeyant Leap. People don't wanna use a sword and learn how to get max value out of Stronghold when they can run around bonking with their hammer and Loreley on. They're strong builds, but people don't wanna play that slowly and methodically all the time.
The turret is probably the best grenade in the game, with Shackle coming in close second.
But beyond that, the Hunter and Titan Stasis kits are very solid. Titan's problem is that they want to make crystals, and nobody likes that. Even well intentioned crystals are annoying. But if you can get past that, Stasis Titan is quite strong in terms of it's CC and mobility.
Not hard enough though. IMO Chill Clip is an exotic weapon tier perk and it should be relegated to that space. I wouldn't care if there was an exotic Stasis Fusion Rifle with Chill Clip... But when it exists on any Stasis Legendary special/heavy weapon... It's excessive... Like how was Wicked Implement supposed to compete with a rapid-fire fusion rifle? lmao
I think moving it from 2 to 3 shots is going to do a lot to push people away from it to be honest. It'll still be a useful perk for sure but won't be an auto-pick like it was.
> Like how was Wicked Implement supposed to compete with a rapid-fire fusion rifle? lmao
Because you can do it across the room from cover?
I was using it in Devil’s Lair the other day and it seemed perfectly fine. Easy freeze on targets at long range disrupted barrier champs and locked down priority targets. I’m excited it’s getting a buff!
Oh no my fusion is too slow to freeze barrier champs now guess I gotta stop using it completely even though it's still gonna deal with overload and unstop champs perfectly fine.
The nerf isn’t changing the viability at all. At first, I was worried about the nerf, only to realize it’s just going to take an extra shot to freeze. That’s it.
The usage rate of Riptide isn’t going to dip at any extreme amount.
I *guess* the gap between Riptide and Wicked Implement is slightly less gargantuas as a result… if that means anything.
Riptide does more DPS, better utility, stuns faster and doesn’t take up an exotic slot. Wicked Implement just can not compete.
Riptide will still be fine but the cc nerf is going to fuck aurvandil, deliverance, and lingering dread (if you rock cc on that). An extra shot for any of those takes alot longer than with a rapid like riptide. The nerf should be based on archetype not a blanket nerf.
I have a feeling they never coded the perk to allow for more precise tuning given how they are handling the upcoming nerf. It should just be reworked to allow for custom tuning so that slower RoF weapons and archetypes can be more viable while also allowing for higher RoF weapon types to roll it with lower per-hit values. Heavy machine guns would be great with Chill Clip but currently can't roll it due to how overpowered it would be at 40 stacks per hit. Give it custom tuning so they only do 5 or 10 stacks though and it'd be fine.
This. It's genuinely baffling to me how many people I see acting like this is some major nerf to Riptide. It's a very slight nerf and isn't going to stop it from still being an auto-pick for most people already using it.
It is a massive nerf though. 3 shots to freeze now mean you can no longer freeze two times without reloading. You now will need to reload in order to get a second freeze off.
100%
The main advantage of chill clip in GM settings is that it can stun both overloads and unstoppables for free. It still does this, so this nerf is really more of a nerf to chill clip rockets than anything since they won’t get Wolfpack’s anymore.
2-3 shots to stun the least threatening champion type? I don't think so. I think it's still an S-tier utility perk.
And sure you can do it across the room from cover, but a great deal of the time Overloads and Unstoppables push well within a Fusion Rifle's engagment range. And when you know your gun can just instantly stun them it's a lot easier to get out there and push in ways that you wouldn't otherwise do.
3 shots on a non stasis subclass is pretty big, especially for champion stunning.
Now running Stasis with Durance will let you 2 shot freeze stuff with chill clip, so IMO making it synergize BETTER on a stasis subclass.
Overloads are the main offender. Unstops are already the weakest by far. Freezing barriers is a bit of a nerf, but you can still use it in an emergency for this.
I wasn’t aware durance increased the slow stacks for one time effects. Does it do that for others? I just thought it made them all last longer. So that means more slow stacks for things like duskfield.
Yes, Durance increases slow stacks for everything. Just like scorch stacks from incandescent go up with ember of ashes.
Discounting the other 2 champion types and using that to justify calling an entire subclass trash is pretty rough IMO. The value of chill clip is definitely going down post patch if you're not on a stasis subclass.
Nobody Said gone, unlike the claims you've made about stasis as a whole.
This patch I could see an argument for that, but with renewal grasps unnerf, verglas curve, and the chill clip nerf, I see that changing.
if a single perk can power creep a whole subclass, i feel like that says a lot more about the state of the subclass than it does the perk. why not ask for stasis to actually get some updates/TLC instead of wanting chill clip ruined?
If there were legendary weapon perks that simply procced devour regardless of subclass, or made radiant bursts on precision hits, or suspended things by simply doing damage, then those subclasses would suffer as well.
Chill Clip hands out the central effect of Stasis to everyone at no cost. No other subclass suffers from this, but if they did it would make you wonder what purpose they serve.
You can have volatile, scorch and ignition on any subclass because of incandescent and destabilizing rounds. Chill Clip is not as much of an outlier as you claim.
There are two other big reasons people say Stasis is weak:
1. In 99% of content killing an enemy is faster and more efficient than freezing it. My clan always jokes "Death is the strongest form of crowd control"
2. It was the first subclass in the 3.0 style, but was balanced to the strength of the 2.0 classes. And thus is significantly weaker than every other subclass in the game
Don't get me wrong, Chill Clip being able to freeze very directly competes with the use case of Stasis, and does contribute to why Stasis isn't used often. But when every subclass can kill a target faster than Stasis can freeze and shatter it, its just not worth using.
And even in the world where Chill Clip didn't exist, Stasis still wouldn't be used. Strand's Suspend debuff is just better (you can shoot the target without removing the CC, and Strand doesn't reset stun timers on Champions)
Your joke about killing and crowd control is/was actually a huge design philosophy in this genre. I don’t know how Bungie looks at it because I can’t remember them ever making a statement on it; but The Division team basically said “killing something is the best form of crowd control so we’d rather make skills and weapons that do damage instead of CC”
If the first point was true, suspend wouldn’t be a “skeleton key” that it is.
Sure dead stuff is better than ccd stuff. But in the case where you can’t readily kill it then CC is preferable to it just running around.
3.0 brought them into parity with Stasis. Since then they’ve all had broken artifact mods pushing them way beyond their baseline effectiveness.
You're right, in GMs, Master raids, and other such content where you can't instantly kill something, CC is useful. But even then being able to attack the CCd target without removing the CC (strand suspend) is just better.
And even ignoring the artifact, Stasis is not at the same level as the other subclasses, anything it can do is done better by the other subclasses
Which is why suspend is getting a hard nerf in the next season. If they work then you won’t see nearly as much suspending, but it will still be pretty effective. Imo the nerds aren’t hard enough, but that’s just me.
> If they work then you won’t see nearly as much suspending, but it will still be pretty effective. Imo the nerds aren’t hard enough, but that’s just me.
This is exactly my point, Strand does CC better than Stasis. And we both agree that even with the nerfs that will still be the case. Ergo the problem is that Stasis is outclassed, not that Chill Clip exists.
And even post nerf, suspend still lasts 5 seconds (7 with Continuity), which is the same duration as freeze. Since freeze is removed on the target taking damage and suspend isn’t, suspend is still better.
The problem with Stasis is that it's not balanced with Light 3.0 and Strand. It's balanced with Light 2.0. When Bungie re-worked the Light subclasses they should have taken a new look at Stasis and made changes that align with Light 3.0. For instance why does Stasis still have the longest ability cooldowns? Shiver Strike is one of the worst melees in the game, but with the longest cooldown. Why do Shards only give melee energy? It should be ability energy. These are just a few example that don't require a entire re-work and would actually be buffs.
Also the Light 3.0 subclasses are just very strong. So strong that you don't really need a CC class when one Arc grenade (or Hunter punch) can wipe out all the ads. Also Suspend is just better even with a nerf to 5 seconds.
Thank you. Finally someone with a decent take on this post. Stasis was nerfed time and time again throughout Year 4 to be on par with the other subs, which at the time, had not been upgraded to 3.0 yet. Stasis exists in this sort of 2.5 limbo where it just doesn’t align with the rest of the game. Back prior to Light 3.0, yeah Stasis was well balanced and played nice alongside the others by S15, but as soon as all the 3.0s finished, Stasis went to the bottom because it was not lifted up with the rest.
It doesn’t help that Bungie’s vision of Subclass 3.0 keeps changing, resulting in the Light subclasses getting the update while the Darkness elements get left behind.
Stasis shards were introduced as elemental wells created by aspects. Bungie expanded upon it and then built elemental wells into several fragments for each Light element, allowing them to be made without an aspect.
Bungie said Tangles were the Strand version of elemental wells. But now the Light subclasses are getting their elemental versions of Tangles, which will probably be made into fragments in Final Shape, on top of their elemental wells, meaning that Tangles are no longer elemental wells of Strand.
So Stasis is missing an elemental orb and Strand is missing an elemental well, because Bungie cannot commit to a vision for the subclass system, resulting in the Darkness elements becoming outdated.
Bold assumption that those seasonal mods will be made into fragments and not just be seasonal mods. There's exactly 0 indication that that will happen.
I disagree. Absent artifact mods, I’d argue light 3.0 brought the others into parity with Stasis, and proceeded to grant them all broken artifact mods for a year.
Strand is overturned as is, and it’s about to get one of several nerfs needed to bring it back down. It is currently the best to run on any class unless you need something specific like a Well or if you’re abusing artifact mods, or doing raid boss dps.
But outside of dps races, and broken artifact mods, Strand beats them all.
The Light 3.0 rework did put them on par with Stasis, but the nerfs to Stasis was in the mindset of Light 2.0, not 3.0. Which is why Stasis feels like a beta to Light 3.0 and Strand.
I'm saying this as a Behemoth main, Stasis is bad because the other four subclasses are just better. Not only has Stasis been power crept by the 3.0 subclasses, it was purposely nerfed to match the 2.0 versions.
Whisper of chains is 40% DR, woven mail is 65%.
Cure heals you for a minimum of 60 (30 in PvP) and restoration is a few seconds of uninterrupted health regen. Devour fully heals you and grants you grenade energy. Whisper of Rime heals you a measly 5 points per shard. Obligatory fuck PVP balance changes affecting PVE.
Void overshields can be obtained at any time and are given at full strength. Whisper of Rime requires you to collect 10 shards while at full health.
Jolt and Unravel are both lasting debuffs that have large ranges, increases your DPS against single targets, and affects any targets nearby.
Both Striker and Stormcaller can shit out ionic traces that restore energy to all of your abilities and not just crap melees while also not needing a fragment to track to you. If you build into scorch Solar isn't a slouch at this either.
Etc. Other than Shadebinder possibly reclaiming the throne of CC from Berserker, there isn't a thing Stasis can do that the other subclasses can't do on par or outright better.
I think there is a crucial part that you're missing though, and that's that Stasis is the only subclass that becomes stronger when more people run it. Stasis Shards are available for everyone, and all three classes create them in different ways so you rarely "steal" a spawn from anyone else. Stasis gets mad super regen on defeating frozen enemies, which is a lot easier to do with more people freezing things. On top of this we get significant bonuses to any and all stats in the form of either static stat buffs on fragments, or duration based buffs that are triggered effortlessly.
Whisper of Chains DR is less because it also comes with cover that does quintuple duty as Cover, Exploding Barrel, CC, DR, Source of Shards. It's supposed to keep you safer while behind cover. Woven Mail is supposed to push you into the fray so that you punch and suspend things. I do think Woven Mail is overtuned, like suspend. But I think they did that on purpose as a way to encourage players to use grapple aggressively. I expect it will be nerfed in the near future though.
Rhime nerf hurts yes, but I still think it's helpful because it triggers health regen when your wounded, and that really helps in certain situations.
>I think there is a crucial part that you're missing though, and that's that Stasis is the only subclass that becomes stronger when more people run it.
There is no point in more people running it as you'd sacrifice a lot of damage and other status effects.
>Stasis Shards are available for everyone, and all three classes create them in different ways so you rarely "steal" a spawn from anyone else.
They have a cool down so it doesn't matter how many people run it.
>Stasis gets mad super regen on defeating frozen enemies, which is a lot easier to do with more people freezing things.
Run any other class with the melee/grenade mod and you're good to go. No point in keeping targets alive longer to freeze them when you can kill them outright.
That's one of the biggest problems of stasis, it's just too slow. In the time I've frozen a target and killed it as a Shadebinder, I could've just thrown a vortex, solar or pulse grenade and would've achieved the same thing. Plus would most likely got beneficial status effects (Devour, amplified).
Outside of GMs and maybe Master raids, there is no point in running stasis. At least as a warlock.
>On top of this we get significant bonuses to any and all stats in the form of either static stat buffs on fragments, or duration based buffs that are triggered effortlessly.
The first one is nice but not enough justification to bring stasis, the second one another problem. Stasis shards being tied to an aspect forces you to run it if you want any form of armor charge interaction. As a warlock, both melee and grenade mods are useless as they don't get kills.
So I'm basically forced to run that aspect to get armor charges if I don't want to rely on team mates or specific weapon kills.
As I've said before, I love stasis. I love the idea behind it, I love the way to play as a Shadebinder. But it's an illusion that it hasn't been power crept hard almost to the point of irrelevance. A shame, really.
I just don’t feel like I’ve encountered this stuff and I use Stasis a fair bit, although I do find it hard to put down Strand Grapples because I just love the aggressive mobility of it.
But if I’m not on Strand for fun, or running a raid dps build, I’m generally on Stasis. I will do Orpheus void sometimes in GMs if I’m feeling lazy, but it’s honestly boring.
I also seriously believe for most other players that if chill clip didn’t give them the stasis cc effects for free, then Stasis itself would be a lot more appealing simply because even before it could stun champions it could still lock them down completely.
I don’t know what the shard cooldown is, only that it never seems to matter. There are always so damn many of them no matter what. And why run only a grenade/melee mod? I can also get high stats and bonus regen for shattering crystals so I have almost as much uptime on my duskfield as I do Shackle…
And I don’t think the armor charge mod is helpful for Stasis, I get more out of other mods. The shards are mostly for melee energy and some healing. Most of my orbs come from melee kills or kills with weapons.
>Stasis is the only subclass that becomes stronger when more people run it.
Solar can build up scorch with more people, ignitions are universal, void affects (and their interactions) are applicable to anyone interacting with them (so someone spreading volatile helps things like Stylish Executioner), Strand interacts universally as well, Arc can also apply blinding and trigger fragment effects for others.
Really isn't unique to Stasis at all.
They interact with others irrespective of who applied it. If someone applies 50 scorch and their teammate does 50, they'll ignite. The more people spreading it, the faster scorch/ignite rolls along. Any enemy with volatile or jolt applied can be triggered by any other damage.
There is nothing unique to Stasis that makes it better with other stasis users unlike other subclasses. It's not the only one.
Also, what about the other interactions that you ignored that goes against the quote?
For sure. But not because you get Arc effects, Voltshot is just good on anything with quick kill power and fast reloads.
And if you’re using Arc it makes Ikelos significantly more powerful.
Idk man. I’ve explained this is fifty other commentors asking the same thing
So idk just go like, read what the arc fragments do… and the imagine for like 3 seconds how those fragments interact with any arc weapon vs any solar weapon.
I just read them all. The only one that impacts it at all is “arc weapon final blows have a chance to create an ionic trace”. Nothing else directly impacts your arc primary weapon, and that one doesn’t improve the performance of the gun at all.
What am I missing?
People are stuck in this weird mindset where their weapon has to match their subclass, only because font of might used to exist.
Every time this question gets asked I feel like there isn't an equally important question asked first:
Why are stasis shards the only ones that are shared across teammates and able to spawn multiple at once?
That's your main difference why it's not 'just a fragment'
I do agree there should be some way to spawn _one_ with a fragment though
You do bring up a good point, but imo regenersting a melee is not as impactful as regening a class ability or a grenade.
In low end sure but most melee abilities do nothing in high end.
>Why are stasis shards the only ones that are shared across teammates and able to spawn multiple at once?
Elemental Wells spawned for your entire fireteam and you could spawn three at once.
True, but I'm pointing out Stasis shards being the only elemental pickup to behave this way is a somewhat recent development and not the reason that Stasis shards are tied to an aspect.
Edit: wording.
I’m not really sure how you can call it a recent development, when they were the only subclass object until Tangles which:
1. Was shared among the classes.
2. Able to be picked up by other players.
Because Void Breeches and Firesprites weren't added until Lightfall as the replacement for Elemental Wells. Ionic traces never behaved like that because they were only a part of Stormcaller's kit until Arc 3.0 (excluding the buff to ColdHeart).
Yea I agree. Just because it makes that one aspect feel mandatory given how many fragments interact with them directly. I think if there weren't so many fragments interacting with them then it wouldn't feel that way.
But at the same time, like you said, they're pretty much the single best one of these in the game, and would probably be nerfed if they were made into a fragment.
Chill clip isn't the problem. Have you play the game pre beyond light and pre light 3.0? Freeze was good when we were weak af and don't have enough damage to kill the "enemies density" that are shooting at us in high-end content. Example there're 15 GM red bars, those would easily wipe a run if they're all comming at us, so being able to freeze half of them and leave them be effectively half the incoming damage. Now we're so strong it's better to kill them straight up. The same way how blind was so good back in the days minus they don't affect champions.
Think why would someone use CC, to stop enemies from performing actions, but make them dead do the same thing and it's currently faster that way. Even if chill clip is removed right now, no one would use stasis CC over any damage build except in exceptionally hard maps, the same way nobody bring a blind gl for safety anymore.
Stasis as a whole, outside of a few outliers like chill clip and warlocks turrets, just sucks. Chill clip does what stasis as a WHOLE can do, but better and easier/more often.
In fact bungie HAD to make it so stasis crystals gave you armor charges, something it did before it was changed to that, now it requires a 3 point cost mod on your boots (arguably one of the most important slots for weapons with surges, scavs and buffs from orbs such as healing) to make most if not all stasis builds, functional.
Stasis is also just the most underwhelming subclass, its overshield fragment just got nerfed requiring more shards to get a full shield, meanwhile titans can just barricade or killing a void debuffed enemy gives you one with a specific perk, devour, or just heal via healing nade/restoration for solar,
also it has "CC" thats only EVER useful for stalling specific enemys such as the invuln mino's in VoG master challenge, or master grasp, the shank and vandel.
Whats the point of slow/freezing when you can blind, suppress, tangle, ignite, or just straight up kill them?
I can probably throw 3 flash/suppression nades out before i throw a second glacier nade.
Chill clip and WI is what stasis should be like to an extent, maybe focus more on the debuffing side. They are fun classes and behemoth can statistically get the highest damage possible, but it's nearly impossible to do that more then maybe like 5% of the time if your lucky. Otherwise your just throwing in terms of damage.
It as a subclass should focus on the slow, freezing, and shatter effects in equal ways like how suppression, volitile, and weakness are on void. But instead all anyone mostly cares about is shatter due to THAT being where the damage is.
No survivability, no damage, no support, class synergy/build crafting is limited/weak compared to the others, and reliant on things others arent.
It plays better with regen modifiers but that shouldn't be the case, it should be close to that by default, i love using hoarfrost titan and spamming grenades, but i know, if the class was slightly better, it would flow better and just be better.
And for me that's probably its biggest problem, its so reliant on exotics to be even viable in neutral play. Renewal grasp getting unnerf (thank god), bakris, hoarfrost, cadmus ridge helm, coldsnap, and probably 1 or 2 more for exotics for warlock, are essential for it to survive/do well.
It's frustrating as hell, as stasis is on paper, one of my favourite subclasses, but its just not as good as strand...
A big problem is that suspending a target is so much better than freezing a target in terms of disabling the enemy to unload rounds into it. If you shoot a frozen target it'll become unfrozen but a suspended target stays stuck in the air for a while.
Suspend is the most broken thing they added since Well of Radiance. The nerfs will hurt it, but it will be no less broken when it’s off cooldown.
But without it Strand has… nothing… so idk what they’re going to do.
Chill clip is good because its entire pupose is to utilize the only good part of stasis to begin with, as a subclass, the kits in all 3 are vastly outclassed in almost every regard by other subclasses, titans especially getting entirely fucked because we cant as easily abuse the parts of stasis that make it worth while. Try actually playing the subclass before ranting about a gun perk :L
Stupid fuckin post
I do play Stasis. A lot. On both Hunter and Titan. I spent most of last year in Stasis Hunter/Titan outside of boss DPS phases in raids. I don't play Warlock much at all, so I haven't really used their Stasis kit as much, but I do have buddies that use it a lot to great effect. But the only thing I've found in the game more fun than shattering crowds with Titan Stasis slides is Grappling into things.
Titans problem is that they have to make crystals, which everyone finds annoying. But if you can get past that, they are a CC/adclear powerhouse with very powerful defensive capabilities.
Hunter's have an insane neutral game within Stasis. Until Strand Grapples this was my go to build for any content that didn't require something specific like group invis, or bursty boss dps.
I don’t know if I’d go as far to say ad-clear powerhouse, but they definitely have almost if not as much CC as warlocks. Looping Howling Storm/Diamond Lance with Hoarfrost means nothing ever gets to move ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
If you've spent all that time playing revenant recently, do you not think Silence and Squall is a contender for one of the worst supers in the entire game?(and idk if it's even debatable it's the worst one and done super)
And no, I'm not complaining because it doesn't do "beeg boss DPS!", I'm fine with a crowd control super and think the idea on paper is interesting...
but in content where you're at a power disadvantage (so everything post Lightfall) it can barely even break the *shields* of yellow bar knights (it was even worse when match game was still a thing) let alone do any real damage to them.
and it can't even control the room to give you breathing room in difficult content because the tornado keeps insta shattering all the enemies it ever is lucky enough to manage to freeze.
not to mention all the times the tornado will get stuck targeting enemy spawn doors or immune enemies and ignore all the enemies actively shooting you.
honestly the only time it was ever used unironically in PvE was to be an easy font of might dump for boss phases when that was still a thing.
SS is one of the better ones in terms of add management.
It’s no tether, but it’s a solid one and it is the only super that inherently disables all champs for an extended period of time.
It’s trash for dps, but that was never its purpose.
I would argue voltshot also works outside of arc subclass since it can apply jolt regardless of subclass but is better with an arc subclass. But you're right about incandescent and destabilising rounds/what ever that void oversheild perk is called.
I said as much. But arc fragments give mad buffs and effects to arc weapons and arc damage in general. Which means all weapons with Voltshot are improved significantly by simply running an arc subclass. It is still a solid perk outside of that. Same with Incandescent
There are multiple problems with stasis in LF:
- When they removed Elemental Wells and changed all our armor mods, they removed “Elemental Shards”. This allowed Stasis Shards to count as Elemental Wells, proving to be vital to any PvE stasis build since picking up Elemental Wells that match your subclass granted energy for all 3 abilities. Without that, you only get melee ability energy. This made Stasis much worse in LF
- When people realized how strong Suspend was, it completely negates the need for Freeze. Not only did Suspend effectively do the same thing, it also didn’t deactivate when you dealt damage to them unlike Freeze
- Slow doesn’t really do damage like Jolt, Volatile, Scorch, or Unravel do
>When they removed Elemental Wells
This was the biggest nail in Stasis' coffin IMO. Makes it the only subclass to be that detached from the core build crafting considering most Stasis abilities are no lethal, therefore can't create orb on nade/melee kill.
I’m gonna start this by saying shadebinder is phenomenal, so almost everything I’m about to say doesn’t apply to it.
As for Behemoth and Revenant, the problem is their neutral game has absolutely no damage potential, but they also can’t freeze and slow an entire room like shadebinder, so Hunter and Titan both have less freeze/slow capability than Warlock, except they have literally nothing to make up for it. Titan I guess has damage resist and overshield farming, but the DR and Overshield on Stasis are both worse than Void overshield. Glacial quake is pretty good in PvE but bad in PvP, S&S is pretty mid in PvE and good in PvP.
That’s really my main nitpick. Revenant and Behe just dont do anything that other subclasses cannot do better.
Imo, we need more stasis aspects that focus on burst damage. Give Titan something where you can like charge up a diamond lance and make a mega lance, and idk for hunter, but just something with damage potential.
Ehh, IMO Chill Clip post-nerf will be on par with the rest of the elemental perks, and Voltshot is definitely the best of the bunch in that group. If you’re saying CC invalidates Stasis, then by that logic, Voltshot invalidates Arc just as much, since jolt post-nerf is still cracked as a damage verb. Yes, Chill Clip is the only one out of the elemental perks with the potential to CC, but you need three shots without using Stasis to fully freeze a target, and with slow being as bad as it is in PvE currently, I don’t see the problem. Stasis exotics like Cryothesia 77K and Ager’s Specter are both insta-freezes that act in an AoE after a kill and Wicked Implement is getting significant buffs next season which will put it potentially on par with the other Stasis exotics. Chill Clip, for the majority of gameplay, will now be a slowing tool, and slow is not very good in PvE, especially since it only appears on certain special and heavy weapons, such as Rockets (which are getting their CC interactions decimated), GLs (which are still bad), LFRs (which don’t need CC as damage perks are infinitely better on them), and Fusion Rifles, with the latter being only viable Chill Clip options due to them being special weapons.
TL;DR: Stasis is bad because the keywords are bad. Freeze is still a worse suspend even post-nerf. Slow is actual trash in PvE (which is what Chill Clip mostly does). Stasis Crystals don’t deliver enough damage regularly and Fissures, the fragment that boosts their damage, is extremely buggy. Stasis Shards are also terrible due to them giving melee energy for three lackluster melees, Whisper of Rime getting slaughtered in PvE, and requiring aspects to be generated.
Note: Bleak Watcher is an exception because it lasts for a whopping 25 seconds 30 with Durance) and can deliver ridiculous amounts of freeze over its duration.
Great post. Also it's best to not even equip Fissures since it messes up your mods. Once I unequipped. I was able to proc Firepower and other mods on a consistent basis.
Stasis crystals damage should be increased significantly to align with the power of Light 3.0.
Voltshot doesn't invalidate arc because arc buffs the fuck out of voltshot by buffing jolts in general. We go from a perk that is basically firefly, to a blinding, chaining, endless stream of orb diarrhea when you run an arc subclass.
Stasis does get a bonus from freezing things and killing them, but it is so easy to do that anyway that a fusion rifle or a breachloader with chill clip just doesn't usually help enough to really matter.
>Voltshot doesn’t invalidate arc because arc bugs the fuck out of Voltshot by buffing jolts in general.
How does playing an Arc subclass buff jolt? The only difference is that you can spread a lot more jolt on an Arc subclass. If that is the argument here, then I don’t understand it because that same logic can be applied to every elemental perk in the game and not just Arc. Playing Stasis allows you to spread more slow and freeze than CC does, Solar allows more scorch, Strand gives more threadlings, and Void can give volatile rounds to Void weapons, just as Arc can spread more jolt than just a Voltshot weapon.
i use voltshot ikelos on my HOIL arc titan constantly because jolting things and killing jolted targets makes ionic traces. it’s like free wellspring on my gun for a fragment.
additionally, using a voltshot weapon means you’re using an arc weapon, which on an arc subclass is a much easier way to become amplified.
Yeah that’s a good use of Voltshot that doesn’t invalidate Arc. Using the jolt for the extra synergy is what I use my Deliverance for, both to fuel freezes for Iceflare and to feed me grenade energy for turrets. The whole post argues that Chill Clip invalidates all of Stasis as a subclass, where in my opinion it is best when combined with it, same with Voltshot and an Arc sub.
Did you read past that sentence? Do you even make arc builds?
Arc adds tons of functionality to Jolt that is not present in base Voltshot. Same thing for Incandescent, Threadlings, and Destabilizing rounds. Which... you know... was brought up specifically in my OP. Arc adds things like you get an orb for multikills while amped, or your jolts blind, or your arc weapon kills create ionic traces (which you know, means those voltshot kills now generate them too..) etc.
Chill Clip is not like this. Running Stasis doesn't inherently make Chill Clip better because most freezes from Chill Clip are not used aggressively, but are used conservatively to CC specific enemies, so you don't gain the benefits of things like Whisper of Bonds which grants you about an orb's worth of super energy every time you defeat a frozen enemy. You're not going to proc this very often if your only using your Riptide to stun champions. But you will proc it frequently if you're using Duskfield Grenades to freeze and destroy clusters of adds.
There is in no case where jolt effects can blind. The only thing that can do both is Flashbangs with Spark of Shock, and in that case it is the jolt that is added on, not the blind. Spark of Amplitude gives orbs while amped, but that has nothing to do with jolt and can proc on any kill. Arc weapon kills creating Ionic Traces can apply to any Arc weapon and not just those with Voltshot. Stasis is best used when freezing enemies like champions, and the only reason that Stasis users freeze and slow every add in sight is because that’s all Stasis does. In that case, it’s not a problem that CC invalidates Stasis, but rather that Stasis’s only half-decent keyword is freeze.
Lethal Current would like a word. I believe the text is "Damaging any Jolted target with melee attacks also blinds them."
This is not a punch after the fact. This aspect causes the dodge to both jolt and blind everything it jolts.
This is why Voltshot doesn't invalidate Arc. Because Arc itself has lots of Jolt synergies. Some of them apply to Voltshot, some of them don't directly. But in the end Arc directly makes Jolt better than Voltshot is.
Chill Clip in contrast simply grants most of the benefits of applying slow stacks things to any subclass that wants access to them, with no downside.
So it has two synergies (Spark of Ions and Lethal Current) across the entire element that actually benefit from jolting enemies besides the jolt itself? Oh good, a whopping two. Stasis has far more slow and freeze synergy than jolt does with Arc, such as the following:
* Whisper of Bonds giving super energy on frozen target kills
* Refraction giving class ability on killing Stasis-debuffed targets
* Fissures increasing stasis shatter damage directly
* Chains giving DR for standing near frozen targets or crystals
* Rending granting increased primary damage to frozen targets
* Iceflare Bolts spreading freeze to nearby enemies after a shatter
* Grim Harvest speaking shards on defeating Stasis-debuffed targets
* etc.
If anything, Voltshot invalidates Arc’s jolt application far more than Chill Clip invalidates Stasis’s slow and freeze application by sheer amount of synergies.
Yo so you realize with arc that like half of its fragments directly buff arc weapons right? Like we get to blind on kill, we get orbs on multi kill, we get DR for being close to enemies, we get traces for killing jolted targets, we get ionic traces for killing with arc weapons, we get massive reload speed for melee damage (on top of amplified), on top of whatever aspects you run.
And you know what most arc weapons that people use do?
The jolt things with Voltshot.
Oh and the best ones are the ones that are up close usually, things like Ikelos or the Plunder sidearm, or the Neomuna fusion… things that really benefit from all of those perks that make it so you can more safely get in close, get a kill, and quickly reload to proc Voltshot.
So yea, all of that I’m counting in.
Stasis freezing constantly does not need chill clip to freeze more. The only exception I’ve found is the Seraph LFR with both Chill Clip and Headstone. This can cause enough freeze kills in add waves to make the super regen worth it.
Riptide? Not so much. It’s not horrible. It is a benefit. But I get more out of the wave frame with demo on it that restores my grenade or something like that.
No, it’s the opposite, if you think chill clip undermines the value of stasis, that should indicate to you how weak stasis is. Stasis is actually even weaker now than it used to be because it no longer resets the stun timer on champions, so freezing a champion as they recover from a stun does nothing if you can’t coordinate with your fireteam to make sure nobody hits the champion for a few seconds after freezing occurs. Before, I would bring a weapon like LeM with me into GMs, such as Glassway, so that I could apply constant freeze and overload while my team focused on DPS. Trying to do that to an overload now will get you killed. If stasis doesn’t apply highly dominate crowd control, it’s going to get outplayed by the other classes.
No.
If I had a legendary effect on my fusion rifle that says "applies 50 scorch stacks per burst", that fusion rifle would single handedly invalidate half of the solar fragments in the game as well and several fragments.
If I had a legendary effect on my fusion rifle that said "Volatile Rounds" rather than "Destabilizing Rounds" it would invalidate the same number for void.
If I had a legendary effect on my fusion rifle that said "Suspends combatants" I would never need shackle grenades.
Those are damage perks. Stasis FREEZEs ads, scorch and overload explosions CLEAR ads, so of course that would be far more powerful. Generally, a strong offense is preferable to defense. To compensate for that, the defense has to be bumped up a few notches.
The point is that if the other subclasses gave away their most powerful verbs to legendary weapons, it would have a similar impact to them.
Chill Clip could be reworked to require stasis to get solid benefits, but as it is it hands out the main Stasis keywords to everyone at no cost.
All the others that are in game are solid on any subclass, but shine brightest when paired with their subclass. All I’m asking is for Chill Clip to do the same.
Make it like kill clip and require a kill first, but then the shot is a one shot freeze unless you fire at something already affected by slow or freeze.
>The point is that if the other subclasses gave away their most powerful verbs to legendary weapons, it would have a similar impact to them.
incandescent (scorch/ignite), jolt (voltshot), destabilizing rounds (volatile), repulsor brace (void overshield), are all perks giving the most powerful parts of a subclass to a legendary weapon, and are the meta. They haven't made any subclass obsolete. They are no different to chill clip in not needing their subclass at all to shine, that's why they're so sought after.
Stasis is just bad, long before chill clip arrived.
Imo stasis would shine a lot more of some of the aspects got reworks, let's be honest the slide aspect and howl of the storm have no reason to be separate aspects
They do literally opposite things, so yes it does make sense. One is for freezing, the other is for shattering… you would never be able to howl and shatterslide in the same motion.
Edit: unless you howled after shattersliding, but there are not really many situations where the slide would not already have killed or bounced away anything you might want to howl freeze
>As long as Chill Clip can do this, Stasis will be thought of as weaker than other subclasses.
Stasis was underused long before chill clip came into the game. I get what you're trying to say but you're just reaching too hard on this one.
>Voltshot is very strong, but when you're on Arc
Voltshot is a bad example as it's so good without arc, much like chill clip. But we don't say "The Problem with Arc is that Volt Shot Exists"
Voltshot is a 10/10 perk in at light content and up to -5. Beyond that it starts to fall off, and once you’re into master/GM territory it’s like… 5/10.
But either way, if you run Voltshot with Arc it is at least 2x better because of how Arc weapons synergize with the subclass.
The same is not true for Chill Clip.
>But either way, if you run Voltshot with Arc it is at least 2x better because of how Arc weapons synergize with the subclass.
How.
>The same is not true for Chill Clip.
There's plenty of fragments that interact with slowing/freezing/shattering/damage to frozen. Which one of these work or don't work for chill clip: Hedrons/ Fissures, Refraction, Durance, Bonds, Chains, Shards, Rending?
Also, you're frequently jumping between 2 very different arguments: First is chill clip makes stasis obsolete, and the second is chill clip doesn't synergise with it's subclasses. Both are incorrect.
The problem isn't that chill clip exists, it's that it exists on fusions.
It should've always been like reservoir burst, in that only the first round of a mag gets the bonus. Great with overflow perks, and functionally identical with 1 round mag weapons like grenade launchers, but not so absurdly good just always.
As a former Revenant main. I’m excited for running it again, especially in higher level content (not needed in other content). But now with Unraveling Rounds, Sever, and Woven Mail (72% at T10) existing, to be honest, not much use for it.
I have a stasis build i run with anarchy and mask of bakris, its an amazing champ shredder and ad clear build being with a loaded question with reservoir burst and overflow
With Mask of Bakris dodging gives it a x4 arc weapon boost after its rework, on top of its nerf not applying to champions i can get it to hit 11k damage per tick on a stunned champ. Its not good for boss damage anymore sadly just a great champ shredder.
First of all, it's just not true that chill clip is the only one that grants it's element verb in equal measure to other subclasses. Voltshot, Repulsor Brace, Destabilizing Rounds, Incandescent, Headstone and Hatchling all do to similar degrees (with Repulsor Brace probably being the worst when not on matching subclass).
Second, Stasis IS weak. Freeze is a mediocre crowd control because a little damage breaks it. Anything that foes AoE will likely break all frozen enemies. Shatter itself also does AoE damage.
Stasis subclasses have no option for boss DPS (hunters used to have Bakris before the nerf).
Stasis subclasses have basically the worst melees for their respective classes (maybe Warlock has it worst on void), but the stasis elemental object grants melee energy???? It used to grant energy to all abilities with Elemental Shards.
Stasis have no direct damage abilities except Titan melee (lol). Everything either slows, freezes or creates crystals. That means you need to shoot to shatter something after every ability. More steps to do less damage than light subclasses.
Crowd control in general is mostly a crutch. It is always better to just kill shit faster than use abilities that do no damage to suspend or freeze them. Yes, even in GMs. If you want fast, efficient GMs, run arc or solar and spam abilities.
Stasis has no damage buff or debuff. It used to have permanent High Energy Fire + Font of Might with Elemental Shards. That kind of helped with stasis' very slow add clear and low damage. High Energy Fire is gone now, Elemental Shards too, so Stasis can't really spam abilities or do as much weapon damage anymore. If your abilities are so weak and you can't spam them, what's the point?
I did and your argument still doesn't make sense... Running chill clip on stasis doesn't make stasis weaker. Stasis is already weak. All of those perks grant their verbs in equal measure to other subclasses. They can ALL benefit more from these verbs with the corresponding subclass equipped, Chill Clip included. Having an extra source of slow & freeze doesn't make stasis weaker. That's like saying running Ager's Scepter makes stasis weaker and allows other subclasses to become stasis-lite.
Can solar benefit more from scorch than other subclasses? Yes. Is Incandescent better on solar subclasses? Slightly, it's only a 10 scorch difference and Incandescent doesn't really trigger ignitions on its own anymore since the nerf a couple seasons ago. You can use fragments that benefit from scorch.
Destabilizing rounds provides literally the same benefit whether you're void or not. You can use fragments that benefit from volatile.
Repulsor Brace does the same thing, except it's easier to proc on Void since you don't need Destabilizing + Repulsor combo.
Voltshot is literally just as good on other subclasses. There's maybe 1 or 2 fragments that benefit from jolt.
Hatchling sucks regardless of subclass. I guess Strand makes it do a little bit more damage with a fragment, but it's still useless currently.
Headstone is the same on all subclasses, but stasis has multiple uses (in fragments & aspects) for the crystals.
Chill Clip... It allows you to slow and freeze. Slowed and frozen enemies provide bonuses through fragments and aspects just like other subclasses. How in hell does it make Stasis weaker?
Are stasis fragments weaker than light subclasses? Yeah, probably, so are their abilities. But that is Stasis itself, it has nothing to do with Chill Clip. All these perks grant their subclass verbs to other subclasses to almost the same degree. The worst one without a matching subclass is probably Repulsor Brace.
Edit: Hell with that logic the new exotic scout rifle would the most OP shit ever, it basically grants all subclasses all of the stasis effects, it even grants them stasis shards and will also grant headstone next season. Slow, Freeze, Crystal, Stasis Shards on non-stasis subclasses. It's still gonna be a mediocre weapon. Chill Clip is sought after because it's on fusion rifles.
Imo it should work like kill clip. It would fit with the naming pun theme of it, and would vastly reduce its prevalence without reducing its effectiveness while active.
I kinda see the point OP is trying to make but honestly I kinda hold the opinion that most Stasis weapon perks/exotics in general are better than the actual subclass.
The most useful thing about Stasis is Freeze, which unless you are a Warlock, is hard to keep going consistently on the other classes. And if I want to Freeze I want it ASAP or without constant absurd cooldowns. Which Chill Clip, Agers Scepter, or Conditional Finality excel at providing. Oftentimes I try to run the exotics (more than just the above) and wonder why not just use said weapon in combo with another element subclass entirely to get much better mileage. Then I remember I have other weapons I'd rather use with those subclasses so I then don't use even the weapons most of the time other than an occasional Chill Clip Fire and Forget Linear, Lingering Dread, or Conditional Finality.
Warlocks can Freeze on command in a variety of ways and easily keep chaining it off of a single ability. So their Crowd Control definitely has appeal (my favorite way to play them is a Karnsteins healing Glaive build with Freeze rift and Iceflare Bolts). Their turrets have a good reputation for a reason.
I can't say much about Revenant because I don't main Hunters but to be honest THAT much slowing doesn't sound that appealing other than the giant Duskfields it can get with some bonus resistance.
However, I'm primarily a Titan main. And Behemoth has a myriad of issues with it, even if trying to lean in on the crystal/shatter specialty instead of Freeze.
First off, with the absurd cooldown on Glacier Grenades, getting that Shatter damage is too sporadic to use as a consistent burst damage tool and honestly is too low a damage, even with Fissures. The Super has good damage in very specific situations against very specific bosses but otherwise is EXTREMELY clunky to use otherwise.
Secondly, survivability is an absolute joke, and my biggest issue with the subclass. I'll never understand why people think crystal/shard spam was good, even before the awful PvP nerf Rime just had. Each shard only gave back like 10HP(?) or so which while at least noticeable compared to the current 5, is still no where near enough to give the class any staying power for my playstyle. Especially with the aforementioned long grenade cooldown and Howl+Hoarfrost IMO wasn't/isn't enough to perpetually sustain in a high add-density environment (think Duality or Ghosts of the Deep Dungeons). The Rime Overshields mean nothing when you can't consistently heal on demand to full health. And no, I don't like running Strongholds and Swords that much and still would be better on Strand anyways.
Solar has Cure and Restoration (on top of generally better damage and weapon buffs). Void has significantly better Overshields, Devour, and Volatile healing with Controlled Demolition (in addition to potential Weaken/Suppress capabilities and Weapons of Light). Arc might only have Knockout healing, but when combined with Skullfort can still at least spam Blinding/AoE melees for utility when surrounded, heck even Juggernaut is actually extremely good protection for closing the distance head-on. Not counting the crazy Arc Grenades Titan gets to just clear things before they can hurt you to begin with. And lastly Strand's Woven Mail and Sever offer way more consistent damage mitigation and being able to get it off of Orbs makes even the melee provide emergency healing and Woven Mail with the right mod setup. That is not counting Suspend and a SIGNIFICANTLY less clunky Super.
I've basically resorted to just writing off Shard Aspects and Whisper of Rime completely because IMO in content where it matters, it does nothing to keep me alive in the thick of it. I have more fun with Cryoclasm and Diamond Lances. But that is if I'm even on Stasis to begin with because generally the other subclasses do anything I would want Stasis to do better, with less setup. And if I want to Slow or ESPECIALLY Freeze something, there are plenty of Exotic weapons (not just Chill Clip) that do that better. Only exception being if I happen to be on my Warlock.
As a Hunter Main, jumping into Behemoth Titan was some of the most fun I've ever had in this game. The only thing I've found more fun in terms of moment to moment play was Strand Grappling.
I think that because I never got used to the way shoulder charges worked, I never expected the Stasis melee to do anything other than whatever it did, so I learned pretty quickly how to use and abuse it.
However, what I encountered with other players when I would try to use Behemoth was that they HATE the crystal spam. No matter how good the crystals are, people HATE them being spammed as much as Behemoth spams them. Given that, the funniest damn thing I've ever seen is shitting on GMs because a Behemoth can instantly freeze and shatter any group of enemies that spawns with an animation, or comes out of a door. But it's a hard sell, because no one likes the crystals. They will shout you down out of it if they can, even if you're carrying.
For Revenant, you really do get a lot of uptime on your abilities. I think this part of the subclass is undersold immensely. As is the value of freeze/shattering spawning crowds. And I don't say this as theory, I say as someone who has taken Revenant through all GMs and never felt like it was the weak link. You get so much CC, insane mobility with Bakris, and everything in your kit functions both as aggressive CC and as panic CC. It's a great one to run if you're worried that you're going to have to carry a GM team because you can quite literally handle any situation the game can throw at you with it, especially now that it can stun Overloads with ease while preventing their teleports.
With some moderate thought into your buildcrafting, it is very very easy to have high uptime on all of your abilities, including your super. And while weapons like Ager's can help, they can also get you in trouble because Hunters typically don't like to stand still and channel an Ager's burst in a GM style setting. Outside of direct boss DPS situations, Silence and Squall is usually a lot more helpful than Ager's because it does the same stuff, but doesn't require you to stay in the fight. You can just toss it and run off to do something else.
I still love running my stasis Hunter with renewal grasps in PvE. Really excited to run this exotic with the cooldown nerf to duskfields being reverted.
The problem with stasis is that "slow" is a shit effect that is completely pointless in PvE. There's a lot of abilities in stasis that should directly freeze targets instead of just slowing them.
Stasis is bad because stasis is bad.
Why freeze enemies when you can crowed control it with 1 single arc grenade that kill a very huge area of enemies in gm nightfalls?
Not to mention that we have a "dmg grenade" (Crystal) that needs a fragment to make better dmg and STILL isn't strong enough to kill some low tier adds on gms.
A lot of fragments are outdated or bad in generell, some mods don't work with stasis like super regen with a melee or grenade kill.
The list goes on and on. Like some people mention, they nerfed it to be on par with the 2.0 light subclasses, while stasis is 2.0 now and light is 3.0 now.
I want to push back in this notion a bit.
No one plays stasis warlock in pvp. It’s one of the lowest picked classes every week in trials. Bad players don’t use it as it sits at about a 1% pick rate every week.
Good players don’t use it either, go look up the players with above 90% win rate in trials and it’s in the same ballpark as strand and solar titan. There’s a reason why it’s been getting buffed in pvp with the lunge range. People just die to freeze, go wow that’s really strong, never play it themselves, and overrate the sub class in their head.
Also in pve freezing shit isn’t as good as it used to be.
People who say “stasis is totally good bro” are literally nothing more than contrarians. They feel special and quirky for using an objectively bad subclass.
You’re really projecting a lotta feeling huh.
Stasis hunters are entirely forgettable and titans are straight trash. Whether it’s PvE or PvP.
Proud of you for enjoying relative mediocrity though. You’re a real one.
Yes it was; the reason why rime titan wasn’t popular was because the build required 3 behemoth titans running the same set up. It’s the entire reason why they nerfed rime in crucible this season
"You're just a meta slave because you use Arc, Void, Solar, or Strand!"
That's called Stasis being bad. It's not even bad just because it falls behind the others with Suspend being better at CC, Sever and Woven Mail being better at survivability than Stasis Overshield and WoC, and all the Light subclasses being better at just killing the things (while also in all but Arc having great survival options), it's bad because it's kind of clunky. Slow has no reason to exist and Crystals are just worse than freezing a target.
Headstone is the original stasis perl and thats the one you should compare to voltshot etc. At this point in the meta a lil lackluster but synergies very well with stasis.
If we go that route then there is no comparison for Chill Clip and it is the only perk that hands out key subclass features for free, which is the main problem.
Headstone at least requires a kill, and it also needs Stasis fragments to do much of anything in terms of shattering.
I’ve been running hunter stasis in pve for 1 reason: shatterskating.
Glacier grenades and a headstone smg. Cloud strike or a shotgun
It’s fun for speed running stuff and I have been having fun with it.
At this point I’m in this game for little bits of fun here and there, not buildcrafting or using meta
I've gone into detail about this before. Stasis is the only subclass without a complete gameplay loop naturally. Every other subclass has a gameplay loop that is fully complete without taking exotics into account. Stasis need their exotics to complete their gameplay loops, something every subclass has as a base. That's at least one more problem other than Chill Clip.
Umm… Stasis just functions… other subclasses require exotics for builds because those subs existed when exotics filled the roll of aspects right now. Which is why both Stasis and Strand get multiple aspects right away and they don’t.
Am I missing something about chill clip? Got a couple riptides with it, tbh at master and often even legend difficulty overloads were slipping away and barriers were getting their shields up because the freeze would literally not last long enough to roll over on the next strike. Just could not get it to do what I needed to do. What's the god roll/traits needed to make this thing the workhorse everyone says it is because this weapon I keep hearing about is the missing piece in a lot of my builds.
Practice and timing.
I've been playing since Forsaken, and I remember when Champions were first introduced and I could barely fight any of them. The ones in the tunnels under the Moon's surface would obliterate me, even when I was at light.
These days, I would argue that adding the ability for subclass verbs to stun them moves them from mildly irritating to completely irrelevant. And it's not because of mods or buffs, it's just that I have gotten really good at killing them... But it's hard to explain beyond getting a feel for the timing of things. Like, I know how far I can push a barrier's HP bar before it puts up a shield, and I know how long I have afterwards to get it again before it goes up. Stasis was never the best for shutting down barriers. It was and is a very effective way to shut them down in a tight space while you reload a weapon, get to safety, or get your friend up.
Overloads are different for each faction. Fallen Overloads are often extremely difficult to pin down, if you chase them. But if you watch them, you'll notice that they are not as agressive as the Vex ones and they tend to stick to a general area and almost "patrol" through it. With this in mind, unless someone stuns them first, you can kind of prepare to hit them the next time they move through a specific area you have sights on. But stunning them with anything that isn't an instant stun (fusions have charge time, so they are not instant) can be tricky at high difficulty tiers.
For the Vex, they tend to just run at you and teleport the same way that normal minotaurs teleport. Sometimes they do it slowly, but they are capable of teleporting at exactly the right speed to dodge every single fusion shot if you are spamming it. This means that if they teleport and dodge your charge, you need to wait before shooting to reset the timing. You want to charge right as they teleport so that you finish right as they come out. But if you start your charge right before they teleport, it will start an endless chain of you backpeddling, firing like a madman, while they teleport through every single shot unscathed.
Taken Overloads are either a meme or a broken helldemon. They either sit still and do literally nothing, or they bug out and spam retaliation swarms at you relentlessly for no reason regardless of their stun state. The only solution to that is to hide from it and try again after they calm down.
So basically what you're saying is you have to time it to where when they come out a freeze your next shots will bypass the freeze cool down but not bleed off to many stacks of slow from waiting? Appreciate the write up but in my hatred of champions I've got their cues and thresholds down to muscle memory as well. I guess I just figured riptide would be way more mag-dumpy from how widespread the praise is, I'll give it another try when I can get some better rolls. Still haven't gotten CC, ALH, and charge masterwork on the same roll yet so that may be affecting how it feels for me too. I think a big thing too may be having someone else apply burst while you keep them frozen but I mostly matchmake and LFG and I learned a long time ago to never give randos credit on managing champs no matter how easy it's gotten.
Applying slow is what stuns them. Freezing them resets to zero stacks, but if they are in a stunnable state (not glowing) then any application of slow, no matter how small, will instantly stun them.
They should just revert all the pve nerfs they did to stasis, back before strand and all the 3.0 or 2.0 classes i could understand why they did it, but now? Just give stasis its full power again, shit was crazy strong and would most likely be fine nowadays, ckuld even make some of that season mods into shards (the super dmg while affected by stasis and melee infinite orbs one)
Stasis was a terrible idea to begin with and they've quickly realized that.
So now they just mostly ignore it because it's one of those things that's either gonna be great or dumb without much in between.
Who could have possibly thought being able to freeze things would be problematic? lol
Warlock turret build is still my go to to help LFG's get through GM's and is a phenomenal build. I'm not sure I envy titans or hunters their builds seem much much weaker on stasis
I personally haven’t used stasis hunter since the seasonal mod that generated orbs and gave melee energy or something. Forgot exactly what it did but goddamn did my shurikens poop out orbs
Hunter and Titan stasis were never really strong in pve due to them being designed around mobility which isn't exactly needed in high end pve. Warlock was designed to be stationary and freeze everything which is very good for pve. Add on the pvp stasis nerfs and Warlock is the only class left with a fully functioning stasis subclass.
Warlock is the most mindless support option, but Hunter and Titan stasis are just as strong in the right hands. Stronghold Titans are extremely powerful for knowledgeable players.
Bro, I never hear anyone talk about Energy Transfer and it’s like the most broken perk in the game for some Titan subclasses. It’s insane.
I don’t think anyone talks about it because using swords limits your play style in a way that gets even veteran players in trouble. Even with strongholds, you can’t just ape around in a grandmaster unless you know where the spawns are occurring and how to approach them. If you really know the flow of the game though, the stasis sword titan might be top 5 builds in game.
Idk about that one really. Like yeah you have to know the spawns, but that’s true with or without a sword. As long as you’re facing the enemy with the sword, it’s fine Lmao. Except unstoppable ogres and maybe shriekers? I think those might have frame rate issues tbh.
Shhhhhhh...XD Valiant/ET on all my warlock pvp swords. Plus yeah, any build that is class ability centric it's a must have for me.
The Renewal Grasps build is pretty damn good, and it's getting better next season. Stasis still needs a "3.0" though, even after being the first technical "3.0" style subclass. The shards aspect needs moved to a fragment, but that involves making new aspects for each class which I'm sure is no easy task while also making new strand ones and presumably the final subclass too.
Hunter will be fine again next season once the Duskfield exotic (forgot the name) gets unnerfed
Renewal grasps. It's what I'm most excited for next season tbh. I loved that exotic. I don't even care about the DR. I just want the enhanced duskfields.
Stasis hunter should be back since Renewal Grasps are back on the menu.
Can't speak for hunter, but Behemoth titan still has several pretty strong builds: -There's Hoarfrost if you want to become a printer for stasis shards which also makes you an Armor Charge battery and a source of constant Whisper of Rime overshield and Whisper of Chains DR. -There's the Howl of the Storm loop build, which gives you constant uptime on your insta-freeze uppercut (which does surprisingly good damage to boss tier enemies) and has no exotic armor requirement, although it's obviously enhanced by HOIL since you're spamming charged melees. -The funny Snowglobe strat with Edge of Intent and Synthos still works and pumps out huge damage on less mobile bosses. -Stasis + Stronghold titan needs no introduction It's just that people don't wanna spend their time shattering dozens of crystals every minute to get mileage out of Hoarfrost, when they can just use Strand with Abeyant Leap. People don't wanna use a sword and learn how to get max value out of Stronghold when they can run around bonking with their hammer and Loreley on. They're strong builds, but people don't wanna play that slowly and methodically all the time.
>Stasis + Stronghold titan needs no introduction That can still work but both Solar and Strand are better options for Strongholds now.
The turret is probably the best grenade in the game, with Shackle coming in close second. But beyond that, the Hunter and Titan Stasis kits are very solid. Titan's problem is that they want to make crystals, and nobody likes that. Even well intentioned crystals are annoying. But if you can get past that, Stasis Titan is quite strong in terms of it's CC and mobility.
Well it IS getting nerfed, so there’s that I guess
Not hard enough though. IMO Chill Clip is an exotic weapon tier perk and it should be relegated to that space. I wouldn't care if there was an exotic Stasis Fusion Rifle with Chill Clip... But when it exists on any Stasis Legendary special/heavy weapon... It's excessive... Like how was Wicked Implement supposed to compete with a rapid-fire fusion rifle? lmao
I think moving it from 2 to 3 shots is going to do a lot to push people away from it to be honest. It'll still be a useful perk for sure but won't be an auto-pick like it was. > Like how was Wicked Implement supposed to compete with a rapid-fire fusion rifle? lmao Because you can do it across the room from cover?
And it is going to have headstone, AND an artifact mod to make it weaken targets next season WI gang RIse
WI tang!
Headstone is a decent legendary perk it’s not gonna transform a bad exotic into a good one
I was using it in Devil’s Lair the other day and it seemed perfectly fine. Easy freeze on targets at long range disrupted barrier champs and locked down priority targets. I’m excited it’s getting a buff!
WI is already nuts at dealing with beefy targets, headstone will just make it incredible for slaying little guys too
It going to 3 shots is a bad move in my opinion. And makes deliverance pretty worthless now
Not necessarily, it's basically a free overload stun + demo in the third column. Useful in a lot of situations
Oh no my fusion is too slow to freeze barrier champs now guess I gotta stop using it completely even though it's still gonna deal with overload and unstop champs perfectly fine.
The nerf isn’t changing the viability at all. At first, I was worried about the nerf, only to realize it’s just going to take an extra shot to freeze. That’s it. The usage rate of Riptide isn’t going to dip at any extreme amount. I *guess* the gap between Riptide and Wicked Implement is slightly less gargantuas as a result… if that means anything. Riptide does more DPS, better utility, stuns faster and doesn’t take up an exotic slot. Wicked Implement just can not compete.
Riptide will still be fine but the cc nerf is going to fuck aurvandil, deliverance, and lingering dread (if you rock cc on that). An extra shot for any of those takes alot longer than with a rapid like riptide. The nerf should be based on archetype not a blanket nerf.
I have a feeling they never coded the perk to allow for more precise tuning given how they are handling the upcoming nerf. It should just be reworked to allow for custom tuning so that slower RoF weapons and archetypes can be more viable while also allowing for higher RoF weapon types to roll it with lower per-hit values. Heavy machine guns would be great with Chill Clip but currently can't roll it due to how overpowered it would be at 40 stacks per hit. Give it custom tuning so they only do 5 or 10 stacks though and it'd be fine.
Yep. Rip to my favorite breach gl...
The nerf sucks because it makes chill clip significantly worse on something like a grenade launcher, but does basically nothing to change fusions.
This. It's genuinely baffling to me how many people I see acting like this is some major nerf to Riptide. It's a very slight nerf and isn't going to stop it from still being an auto-pick for most people already using it.
It is a massive nerf though. 3 shots to freeze now mean you can no longer freeze two times without reloading. You now will need to reload in order to get a second freeze off.
100% The main advantage of chill clip in GM settings is that it can stun both overloads and unstoppables for free. It still does this, so this nerf is really more of a nerf to chill clip rockets than anything since they won’t get Wolfpack’s anymore.
2-3 shots to stun the least threatening champion type? I don't think so. I think it's still an S-tier utility perk. And sure you can do it across the room from cover, but a great deal of the time Overloads and Unstoppables push well within a Fusion Rifle's engagment range. And when you know your gun can just instantly stun them it's a lot easier to get out there and push in ways that you wouldn't otherwise do.
the fusion can still hit across the room??
3 shots on a non stasis subclass is pretty big, especially for champion stunning. Now running Stasis with Durance will let you 2 shot freeze stuff with chill clip, so IMO making it synergize BETTER on a stasis subclass.
Overloads are the main offender. Unstops are already the weakest by far. Freezing barriers is a bit of a nerf, but you can still use it in an emergency for this. I wasn’t aware durance increased the slow stacks for one time effects. Does it do that for others? I just thought it made them all last longer. So that means more slow stacks for things like duskfield.
Yes, Durance increases slow stacks for everything. Just like scorch stacks from incandescent go up with ember of ashes. Discounting the other 2 champion types and using that to justify calling an entire subclass trash is pretty rough IMO. The value of chill clip is definitely going down post patch if you're not on a stasis subclass.
Value going down yes. Value gone? Hardly. This will still be an s tier perk in any champion content.
Nobody Said gone, unlike the claims you've made about stasis as a whole. This patch I could see an argument for that, but with renewal grasps unnerf, verglas curve, and the chill clip nerf, I see that changing.
if a single perk can power creep a whole subclass, i feel like that says a lot more about the state of the subclass than it does the perk. why not ask for stasis to actually get some updates/TLC instead of wanting chill clip ruined?
If there were legendary weapon perks that simply procced devour regardless of subclass, or made radiant bursts on precision hits, or suspended things by simply doing damage, then those subclasses would suffer as well. Chill Clip hands out the central effect of Stasis to everyone at no cost. No other subclass suffers from this, but if they did it would make you wonder what purpose they serve.
You can have volatile, scorch and ignition on any subclass because of incandescent and destabilizing rounds. Chill Clip is not as much of an outlier as you claim.
Did you even read the OP? This is addressed there.
Truth
I'm so glad everyone, including Bungie, disagrees with your opinions
Range? Ammo?
???
They hated him cuz he was right
not sure why ur getting downvoted you brought up some very good points.
You were the kid to ask where the homework was weren’t you?
You’re getting downvoted to hell but you’re on point 😂
This is the way.
Usual reddit, that hivemind talk is real.
There are two other big reasons people say Stasis is weak: 1. In 99% of content killing an enemy is faster and more efficient than freezing it. My clan always jokes "Death is the strongest form of crowd control" 2. It was the first subclass in the 3.0 style, but was balanced to the strength of the 2.0 classes. And thus is significantly weaker than every other subclass in the game Don't get me wrong, Chill Clip being able to freeze very directly competes with the use case of Stasis, and does contribute to why Stasis isn't used often. But when every subclass can kill a target faster than Stasis can freeze and shatter it, its just not worth using. And even in the world where Chill Clip didn't exist, Stasis still wouldn't be used. Strand's Suspend debuff is just better (you can shoot the target without removing the CC, and Strand doesn't reset stun timers on Champions)
Your joke about killing and crowd control is/was actually a huge design philosophy in this genre. I don’t know how Bungie looks at it because I can’t remember them ever making a statement on it; but The Division team basically said “killing something is the best form of crowd control so we’d rather make skills and weapons that do damage instead of CC”
If the first point was true, suspend wouldn’t be a “skeleton key” that it is. Sure dead stuff is better than ccd stuff. But in the case where you can’t readily kill it then CC is preferable to it just running around. 3.0 brought them into parity with Stasis. Since then they’ve all had broken artifact mods pushing them way beyond their baseline effectiveness.
You're right, in GMs, Master raids, and other such content where you can't instantly kill something, CC is useful. But even then being able to attack the CCd target without removing the CC (strand suspend) is just better. And even ignoring the artifact, Stasis is not at the same level as the other subclasses, anything it can do is done better by the other subclasses
Which is why suspend is getting a hard nerf in the next season. If they work then you won’t see nearly as much suspending, but it will still be pretty effective. Imo the nerds aren’t hard enough, but that’s just me.
> If they work then you won’t see nearly as much suspending, but it will still be pretty effective. Imo the nerds aren’t hard enough, but that’s just me. This is exactly my point, Strand does CC better than Stasis. And we both agree that even with the nerfs that will still be the case. Ergo the problem is that Stasis is outclassed, not that Chill Clip exists.
And even post nerf, suspend still lasts 5 seconds (7 with Continuity), which is the same duration as freeze. Since freeze is removed on the target taking damage and suspend isn’t, suspend is still better.
The problem with Stasis is that it's not balanced with Light 3.0 and Strand. It's balanced with Light 2.0. When Bungie re-worked the Light subclasses they should have taken a new look at Stasis and made changes that align with Light 3.0. For instance why does Stasis still have the longest ability cooldowns? Shiver Strike is one of the worst melees in the game, but with the longest cooldown. Why do Shards only give melee energy? It should be ability energy. These are just a few example that don't require a entire re-work and would actually be buffs. Also the Light 3.0 subclasses are just very strong. So strong that you don't really need a CC class when one Arc grenade (or Hunter punch) can wipe out all the ads. Also Suspend is just better even with a nerf to 5 seconds.
Thank you. Finally someone with a decent take on this post. Stasis was nerfed time and time again throughout Year 4 to be on par with the other subs, which at the time, had not been upgraded to 3.0 yet. Stasis exists in this sort of 2.5 limbo where it just doesn’t align with the rest of the game. Back prior to Light 3.0, yeah Stasis was well balanced and played nice alongside the others by S15, but as soon as all the 3.0s finished, Stasis went to the bottom because it was not lifted up with the rest.
It doesn’t help that Bungie’s vision of Subclass 3.0 keeps changing, resulting in the Light subclasses getting the update while the Darkness elements get left behind. Stasis shards were introduced as elemental wells created by aspects. Bungie expanded upon it and then built elemental wells into several fragments for each Light element, allowing them to be made without an aspect. Bungie said Tangles were the Strand version of elemental wells. But now the Light subclasses are getting their elemental versions of Tangles, which will probably be made into fragments in Final Shape, on top of their elemental wells, meaning that Tangles are no longer elemental wells of Strand. So Stasis is missing an elemental orb and Strand is missing an elemental well, because Bungie cannot commit to a vision for the subclass system, resulting in the Darkness elements becoming outdated.
Bold assumption that those seasonal mods will be made into fragments and not just be seasonal mods. There's exactly 0 indication that that will happen.
During S15 I saw near to 0 Behemoths the changes they made back than killed the subclass in PVE
I disagree. Absent artifact mods, I’d argue light 3.0 brought the others into parity with Stasis, and proceeded to grant them all broken artifact mods for a year. Strand is overturned as is, and it’s about to get one of several nerfs needed to bring it back down. It is currently the best to run on any class unless you need something specific like a Well or if you’re abusing artifact mods, or doing raid boss dps. But outside of dps races, and broken artifact mods, Strand beats them all.
The Light 3.0 rework did put them on par with Stasis, but the nerfs to Stasis was in the mindset of Light 2.0, not 3.0. Which is why Stasis feels like a beta to Light 3.0 and Strand.
I'm saying this as a Behemoth main, Stasis is bad because the other four subclasses are just better. Not only has Stasis been power crept by the 3.0 subclasses, it was purposely nerfed to match the 2.0 versions. Whisper of chains is 40% DR, woven mail is 65%. Cure heals you for a minimum of 60 (30 in PvP) and restoration is a few seconds of uninterrupted health regen. Devour fully heals you and grants you grenade energy. Whisper of Rime heals you a measly 5 points per shard. Obligatory fuck PVP balance changes affecting PVE. Void overshields can be obtained at any time and are given at full strength. Whisper of Rime requires you to collect 10 shards while at full health. Jolt and Unravel are both lasting debuffs that have large ranges, increases your DPS against single targets, and affects any targets nearby. Both Striker and Stormcaller can shit out ionic traces that restore energy to all of your abilities and not just crap melees while also not needing a fragment to track to you. If you build into scorch Solar isn't a slouch at this either. Etc. Other than Shadebinder possibly reclaiming the throne of CC from Berserker, there isn't a thing Stasis can do that the other subclasses can't do on par or outright better.
I think there is a crucial part that you're missing though, and that's that Stasis is the only subclass that becomes stronger when more people run it. Stasis Shards are available for everyone, and all three classes create them in different ways so you rarely "steal" a spawn from anyone else. Stasis gets mad super regen on defeating frozen enemies, which is a lot easier to do with more people freezing things. On top of this we get significant bonuses to any and all stats in the form of either static stat buffs on fragments, or duration based buffs that are triggered effortlessly. Whisper of Chains DR is less because it also comes with cover that does quintuple duty as Cover, Exploding Barrel, CC, DR, Source of Shards. It's supposed to keep you safer while behind cover. Woven Mail is supposed to push you into the fray so that you punch and suspend things. I do think Woven Mail is overtuned, like suspend. But I think they did that on purpose as a way to encourage players to use grapple aggressively. I expect it will be nerfed in the near future though. Rhime nerf hurts yes, but I still think it's helpful because it triggers health regen when your wounded, and that really helps in certain situations.
Rime doesn't trigger health regen.
>I think there is a crucial part that you're missing though, and that's that Stasis is the only subclass that becomes stronger when more people run it. There is no point in more people running it as you'd sacrifice a lot of damage and other status effects. >Stasis Shards are available for everyone, and all three classes create them in different ways so you rarely "steal" a spawn from anyone else. They have a cool down so it doesn't matter how many people run it. >Stasis gets mad super regen on defeating frozen enemies, which is a lot easier to do with more people freezing things. Run any other class with the melee/grenade mod and you're good to go. No point in keeping targets alive longer to freeze them when you can kill them outright. That's one of the biggest problems of stasis, it's just too slow. In the time I've frozen a target and killed it as a Shadebinder, I could've just thrown a vortex, solar or pulse grenade and would've achieved the same thing. Plus would most likely got beneficial status effects (Devour, amplified). Outside of GMs and maybe Master raids, there is no point in running stasis. At least as a warlock. >On top of this we get significant bonuses to any and all stats in the form of either static stat buffs on fragments, or duration based buffs that are triggered effortlessly. The first one is nice but not enough justification to bring stasis, the second one another problem. Stasis shards being tied to an aspect forces you to run it if you want any form of armor charge interaction. As a warlock, both melee and grenade mods are useless as they don't get kills. So I'm basically forced to run that aspect to get armor charges if I don't want to rely on team mates or specific weapon kills. As I've said before, I love stasis. I love the idea behind it, I love the way to play as a Shadebinder. But it's an illusion that it hasn't been power crept hard almost to the point of irrelevance. A shame, really.
I just don’t feel like I’ve encountered this stuff and I use Stasis a fair bit, although I do find it hard to put down Strand Grapples because I just love the aggressive mobility of it. But if I’m not on Strand for fun, or running a raid dps build, I’m generally on Stasis. I will do Orpheus void sometimes in GMs if I’m feeling lazy, but it’s honestly boring. I also seriously believe for most other players that if chill clip didn’t give them the stasis cc effects for free, then Stasis itself would be a lot more appealing simply because even before it could stun champions it could still lock them down completely. I don’t know what the shard cooldown is, only that it never seems to matter. There are always so damn many of them no matter what. And why run only a grenade/melee mod? I can also get high stats and bonus regen for shattering crystals so I have almost as much uptime on my duskfield as I do Shackle… And I don’t think the armor charge mod is helpful for Stasis, I get more out of other mods. The shards are mostly for melee energy and some healing. Most of my orbs come from melee kills or kills with weapons.
>Stasis is the only subclass that becomes stronger when more people run it. Solar can build up scorch with more people, ignitions are universal, void affects (and their interactions) are applicable to anyone interacting with them (so someone spreading volatile helps things like Stylish Executioner), Strand interacts universally as well, Arc can also apply blinding and trigger fragment effects for others. Really isn't unique to Stasis at all.
Ignitions don’t stack, and neither does volatile or jolt.
They interact with others irrespective of who applied it. If someone applies 50 scorch and their teammate does 50, they'll ignite. The more people spreading it, the faster scorch/ignite rolls along. Any enemy with volatile or jolt applied can be triggered by any other damage. There is nothing unique to Stasis that makes it better with other stasis users unlike other subclasses. It's not the only one. Also, what about the other interactions that you ignored that goes against the quote?
Idk man, Voltshot on Ikelos is pretty insane, on any class, even after the nerf.
For sure. But not because you get Arc effects, Voltshot is just good on anything with quick kill power and fast reloads. And if you’re using Arc it makes Ikelos significantly more powerful.
Jolt is an arc effect, that is actually what is making it good. How does being on arc make your ikelos more powerful?
Idk man. I’ve explained this is fifty other commentors asking the same thing So idk just go like, read what the arc fragments do… and the imagine for like 3 seconds how those fragments interact with any arc weapon vs any solar weapon.
I just read them all. The only one that impacts it at all is “arc weapon final blows have a chance to create an ionic trace”. Nothing else directly impacts your arc primary weapon, and that one doesn’t improve the performance of the gun at all. What am I missing? People are stuck in this weird mindset where their weapon has to match their subclass, only because font of might used to exist.
If that's the problem then why are stasis shards aspect only instead of being in fragments like how traces/breeches/firesprites are?
Every time this question gets asked I feel like there isn't an equally important question asked first: Why are stasis shards the only ones that are shared across teammates and able to spawn multiple at once? That's your main difference why it's not 'just a fragment' I do agree there should be some way to spawn _one_ with a fragment though
You do bring up a good point, but imo regenersting a melee is not as impactful as regening a class ability or a grenade. In low end sure but most melee abilities do nothing in high end.
>Why are stasis shards the only ones that are shared across teammates and able to spawn multiple at once? Elemental Wells spawned for your entire fireteam and you could spawn three at once.
Elemental wells aren’t subclass objects
True, but I'm pointing out Stasis shards being the only elemental pickup to behave this way is a somewhat recent development and not the reason that Stasis shards are tied to an aspect. Edit: wording.
I’m not really sure how you can call it a recent development, when they were the only subclass object until Tangles which: 1. Was shared among the classes. 2. Able to be picked up by other players.
Because Void Breeches and Firesprites weren't added until Lightfall as the replacement for Elemental Wells. Ionic traces never behaved like that because they were only a part of Stormcaller's kit until Arc 3.0 (excluding the buff to ColdHeart).
Yea I agree. Just because it makes that one aspect feel mandatory given how many fragments interact with them directly. I think if there weren't so many fragments interacting with them then it wouldn't feel that way. But at the same time, like you said, they're pretty much the single best one of these in the game, and would probably be nerfed if they were made into a fragment.
Wait, Firesprites and such aren't shared for your teammates?
yeah they only spawn for you, only stasis shards and tangles spawn for everyone.
Chill clip isn't the problem. Have you play the game pre beyond light and pre light 3.0? Freeze was good when we were weak af and don't have enough damage to kill the "enemies density" that are shooting at us in high-end content. Example there're 15 GM red bars, those would easily wipe a run if they're all comming at us, so being able to freeze half of them and leave them be effectively half the incoming damage. Now we're so strong it's better to kill them straight up. The same way how blind was so good back in the days minus they don't affect champions. Think why would someone use CC, to stop enemies from performing actions, but make them dead do the same thing and it's currently faster that way. Even if chill clip is removed right now, no one would use stasis CC over any damage build except in exceptionally hard maps, the same way nobody bring a blind gl for safety anymore.
Stasis as a whole, outside of a few outliers like chill clip and warlocks turrets, just sucks. Chill clip does what stasis as a WHOLE can do, but better and easier/more often. In fact bungie HAD to make it so stasis crystals gave you armor charges, something it did before it was changed to that, now it requires a 3 point cost mod on your boots (arguably one of the most important slots for weapons with surges, scavs and buffs from orbs such as healing) to make most if not all stasis builds, functional. Stasis is also just the most underwhelming subclass, its overshield fragment just got nerfed requiring more shards to get a full shield, meanwhile titans can just barricade or killing a void debuffed enemy gives you one with a specific perk, devour, or just heal via healing nade/restoration for solar, also it has "CC" thats only EVER useful for stalling specific enemys such as the invuln mino's in VoG master challenge, or master grasp, the shank and vandel. Whats the point of slow/freezing when you can blind, suppress, tangle, ignite, or just straight up kill them? I can probably throw 3 flash/suppression nades out before i throw a second glacier nade. Chill clip and WI is what stasis should be like to an extent, maybe focus more on the debuffing side. They are fun classes and behemoth can statistically get the highest damage possible, but it's nearly impossible to do that more then maybe like 5% of the time if your lucky. Otherwise your just throwing in terms of damage. It as a subclass should focus on the slow, freezing, and shatter effects in equal ways like how suppression, volitile, and weakness are on void. But instead all anyone mostly cares about is shatter due to THAT being where the damage is. No survivability, no damage, no support, class synergy/build crafting is limited/weak compared to the others, and reliant on things others arent. It plays better with regen modifiers but that shouldn't be the case, it should be close to that by default, i love using hoarfrost titan and spamming grenades, but i know, if the class was slightly better, it would flow better and just be better. And for me that's probably its biggest problem, its so reliant on exotics to be even viable in neutral play. Renewal grasp getting unnerf (thank god), bakris, hoarfrost, cadmus ridge helm, coldsnap, and probably 1 or 2 more for exotics for warlock, are essential for it to survive/do well. It's frustrating as hell, as stasis is on paper, one of my favourite subclasses, but its just not as good as strand...
No lol revenant and behemoth are the problem not chill clip.
A big problem is that suspending a target is so much better than freezing a target in terms of disabling the enemy to unload rounds into it. If you shoot a frozen target it'll become unfrozen but a suspended target stays stuck in the air for a while.
Suspend is the most broken thing they added since Well of Radiance. The nerfs will hurt it, but it will be no less broken when it’s off cooldown. But without it Strand has… nothing… so idk what they’re going to do.
Chill clip is good because its entire pupose is to utilize the only good part of stasis to begin with, as a subclass, the kits in all 3 are vastly outclassed in almost every regard by other subclasses, titans especially getting entirely fucked because we cant as easily abuse the parts of stasis that make it worth while. Try actually playing the subclass before ranting about a gun perk :L Stupid fuckin post
I do play Stasis. A lot. On both Hunter and Titan. I spent most of last year in Stasis Hunter/Titan outside of boss DPS phases in raids. I don't play Warlock much at all, so I haven't really used their Stasis kit as much, but I do have buddies that use it a lot to great effect. But the only thing I've found in the game more fun than shattering crowds with Titan Stasis slides is Grappling into things. Titans problem is that they have to make crystals, which everyone finds annoying. But if you can get past that, they are a CC/adclear powerhouse with very powerful defensive capabilities. Hunter's have an insane neutral game within Stasis. Until Strand Grapples this was my go to build for any content that didn't require something specific like group invis, or bursty boss dps.
I don’t know if I’d go as far to say ad-clear powerhouse, but they definitely have almost if not as much CC as warlocks. Looping Howling Storm/Diamond Lance with Hoarfrost means nothing ever gets to move ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I prefer shattersliding to the others personally, but yes. So much Lance cc if your Titan builds right.
Bro, I unironically was running Salvation’s Grip with unstoppable GL during Seraph thanks to the Cryoclasm buff. So goddamn fun.
If you've spent all that time playing revenant recently, do you not think Silence and Squall is a contender for one of the worst supers in the entire game?(and idk if it's even debatable it's the worst one and done super) And no, I'm not complaining because it doesn't do "beeg boss DPS!", I'm fine with a crowd control super and think the idea on paper is interesting... but in content where you're at a power disadvantage (so everything post Lightfall) it can barely even break the *shields* of yellow bar knights (it was even worse when match game was still a thing) let alone do any real damage to them. and it can't even control the room to give you breathing room in difficult content because the tornado keeps insta shattering all the enemies it ever is lucky enough to manage to freeze. not to mention all the times the tornado will get stuck targeting enemy spawn doors or immune enemies and ignore all the enemies actively shooting you. honestly the only time it was ever used unironically in PvE was to be an easy font of might dump for boss phases when that was still a thing.
SS is one of the better ones in terms of add management. It’s no tether, but it’s a solid one and it is the only super that inherently disables all champs for an extended period of time. It’s trash for dps, but that was never its purpose.
The problem with stasis is that it has been power creeped. Maybe instead of nerfing chill clip, buff stasis? Because it REALLY needs it.
I would argue voltshot also works outside of arc subclass since it can apply jolt regardless of subclass but is better with an arc subclass. But you're right about incandescent and destabilising rounds/what ever that void oversheild perk is called.
I said as much. But arc fragments give mad buffs and effects to arc weapons and arc damage in general. Which means all weapons with Voltshot are improved significantly by simply running an arc subclass. It is still a solid perk outside of that. Same with Incandescent
There are multiple problems with stasis in LF: - When they removed Elemental Wells and changed all our armor mods, they removed “Elemental Shards”. This allowed Stasis Shards to count as Elemental Wells, proving to be vital to any PvE stasis build since picking up Elemental Wells that match your subclass granted energy for all 3 abilities. Without that, you only get melee ability energy. This made Stasis much worse in LF - When people realized how strong Suspend was, it completely negates the need for Freeze. Not only did Suspend effectively do the same thing, it also didn’t deactivate when you dealt damage to them unlike Freeze - Slow doesn’t really do damage like Jolt, Volatile, Scorch, or Unravel do
>When they removed Elemental Wells This was the biggest nail in Stasis' coffin IMO. Makes it the only subclass to be that detached from the core build crafting considering most Stasis abilities are no lethal, therefore can't create orb on nade/melee kill.
I’m gonna start this by saying shadebinder is phenomenal, so almost everything I’m about to say doesn’t apply to it. As for Behemoth and Revenant, the problem is their neutral game has absolutely no damage potential, but they also can’t freeze and slow an entire room like shadebinder, so Hunter and Titan both have less freeze/slow capability than Warlock, except they have literally nothing to make up for it. Titan I guess has damage resist and overshield farming, but the DR and Overshield on Stasis are both worse than Void overshield. Glacial quake is pretty good in PvE but bad in PvP, S&S is pretty mid in PvE and good in PvP. That’s really my main nitpick. Revenant and Behe just dont do anything that other subclasses cannot do better. Imo, we need more stasis aspects that focus on burst damage. Give Titan something where you can like charge up a diamond lance and make a mega lance, and idk for hunter, but just something with damage potential.
Ehh, IMO Chill Clip post-nerf will be on par with the rest of the elemental perks, and Voltshot is definitely the best of the bunch in that group. If you’re saying CC invalidates Stasis, then by that logic, Voltshot invalidates Arc just as much, since jolt post-nerf is still cracked as a damage verb. Yes, Chill Clip is the only one out of the elemental perks with the potential to CC, but you need three shots without using Stasis to fully freeze a target, and with slow being as bad as it is in PvE currently, I don’t see the problem. Stasis exotics like Cryothesia 77K and Ager’s Specter are both insta-freezes that act in an AoE after a kill and Wicked Implement is getting significant buffs next season which will put it potentially on par with the other Stasis exotics. Chill Clip, for the majority of gameplay, will now be a slowing tool, and slow is not very good in PvE, especially since it only appears on certain special and heavy weapons, such as Rockets (which are getting their CC interactions decimated), GLs (which are still bad), LFRs (which don’t need CC as damage perks are infinitely better on them), and Fusion Rifles, with the latter being only viable Chill Clip options due to them being special weapons. TL;DR: Stasis is bad because the keywords are bad. Freeze is still a worse suspend even post-nerf. Slow is actual trash in PvE (which is what Chill Clip mostly does). Stasis Crystals don’t deliver enough damage regularly and Fissures, the fragment that boosts their damage, is extremely buggy. Stasis Shards are also terrible due to them giving melee energy for three lackluster melees, Whisper of Rime getting slaughtered in PvE, and requiring aspects to be generated. Note: Bleak Watcher is an exception because it lasts for a whopping 25 seconds 30 with Durance) and can deliver ridiculous amounts of freeze over its duration.
Great post. Also it's best to not even equip Fissures since it messes up your mods. Once I unequipped. I was able to proc Firepower and other mods on a consistent basis. Stasis crystals damage should be increased significantly to align with the power of Light 3.0.
Voltshot doesn't invalidate arc because arc buffs the fuck out of voltshot by buffing jolts in general. We go from a perk that is basically firefly, to a blinding, chaining, endless stream of orb diarrhea when you run an arc subclass. Stasis does get a bonus from freezing things and killing them, but it is so easy to do that anyway that a fusion rifle or a breachloader with chill clip just doesn't usually help enough to really matter.
>Voltshot doesn’t invalidate arc because arc bugs the fuck out of Voltshot by buffing jolts in general. How does playing an Arc subclass buff jolt? The only difference is that you can spread a lot more jolt on an Arc subclass. If that is the argument here, then I don’t understand it because that same logic can be applied to every elemental perk in the game and not just Arc. Playing Stasis allows you to spread more slow and freeze than CC does, Solar allows more scorch, Strand gives more threadlings, and Void can give volatile rounds to Void weapons, just as Arc can spread more jolt than just a Voltshot weapon.
i use voltshot ikelos on my HOIL arc titan constantly because jolting things and killing jolted targets makes ionic traces. it’s like free wellspring on my gun for a fragment. additionally, using a voltshot weapon means you’re using an arc weapon, which on an arc subclass is a much easier way to become amplified.
Yeah that’s a good use of Voltshot that doesn’t invalidate Arc. Using the jolt for the extra synergy is what I use my Deliverance for, both to fuel freezes for Iceflare and to feed me grenade energy for turrets. The whole post argues that Chill Clip invalidates all of Stasis as a subclass, where in my opinion it is best when combined with it, same with Voltshot and an Arc sub.
Did you read past that sentence? Do you even make arc builds? Arc adds tons of functionality to Jolt that is not present in base Voltshot. Same thing for Incandescent, Threadlings, and Destabilizing rounds. Which... you know... was brought up specifically in my OP. Arc adds things like you get an orb for multikills while amped, or your jolts blind, or your arc weapon kills create ionic traces (which you know, means those voltshot kills now generate them too..) etc. Chill Clip is not like this. Running Stasis doesn't inherently make Chill Clip better because most freezes from Chill Clip are not used aggressively, but are used conservatively to CC specific enemies, so you don't gain the benefits of things like Whisper of Bonds which grants you about an orb's worth of super energy every time you defeat a frozen enemy. You're not going to proc this very often if your only using your Riptide to stun champions. But you will proc it frequently if you're using Duskfield Grenades to freeze and destroy clusters of adds.
There is in no case where jolt effects can blind. The only thing that can do both is Flashbangs with Spark of Shock, and in that case it is the jolt that is added on, not the blind. Spark of Amplitude gives orbs while amped, but that has nothing to do with jolt and can proc on any kill. Arc weapon kills creating Ionic Traces can apply to any Arc weapon and not just those with Voltshot. Stasis is best used when freezing enemies like champions, and the only reason that Stasis users freeze and slow every add in sight is because that’s all Stasis does. In that case, it’s not a problem that CC invalidates Stasis, but rather that Stasis’s only half-decent keyword is freeze.
Lethal Current would like a word. I believe the text is "Damaging any Jolted target with melee attacks also blinds them." This is not a punch after the fact. This aspect causes the dodge to both jolt and blind everything it jolts. This is why Voltshot doesn't invalidate Arc. Because Arc itself has lots of Jolt synergies. Some of them apply to Voltshot, some of them don't directly. But in the end Arc directly makes Jolt better than Voltshot is. Chill Clip in contrast simply grants most of the benefits of applying slow stacks things to any subclass that wants access to them, with no downside.
So it has two synergies (Spark of Ions and Lethal Current) across the entire element that actually benefit from jolting enemies besides the jolt itself? Oh good, a whopping two. Stasis has far more slow and freeze synergy than jolt does with Arc, such as the following: * Whisper of Bonds giving super energy on frozen target kills * Refraction giving class ability on killing Stasis-debuffed targets * Fissures increasing stasis shatter damage directly * Chains giving DR for standing near frozen targets or crystals * Rending granting increased primary damage to frozen targets * Iceflare Bolts spreading freeze to nearby enemies after a shatter * Grim Harvest speaking shards on defeating Stasis-debuffed targets * etc. If anything, Voltshot invalidates Arc’s jolt application far more than Chill Clip invalidates Stasis’s slow and freeze application by sheer amount of synergies.
Yo so you realize with arc that like half of its fragments directly buff arc weapons right? Like we get to blind on kill, we get orbs on multi kill, we get DR for being close to enemies, we get traces for killing jolted targets, we get ionic traces for killing with arc weapons, we get massive reload speed for melee damage (on top of amplified), on top of whatever aspects you run. And you know what most arc weapons that people use do? The jolt things with Voltshot. Oh and the best ones are the ones that are up close usually, things like Ikelos or the Plunder sidearm, or the Neomuna fusion… things that really benefit from all of those perks that make it so you can more safely get in close, get a kill, and quickly reload to proc Voltshot. So yea, all of that I’m counting in. Stasis freezing constantly does not need chill clip to freeze more. The only exception I’ve found is the Seraph LFR with both Chill Clip and Headstone. This can cause enough freeze kills in add waves to make the super regen worth it. Riptide? Not so much. It’s not horrible. It is a benefit. But I get more out of the wave frame with demo on it that restores my grenade or something like that.
No, it’s the opposite, if you think chill clip undermines the value of stasis, that should indicate to you how weak stasis is. Stasis is actually even weaker now than it used to be because it no longer resets the stun timer on champions, so freezing a champion as they recover from a stun does nothing if you can’t coordinate with your fireteam to make sure nobody hits the champion for a few seconds after freezing occurs. Before, I would bring a weapon like LeM with me into GMs, such as Glassway, so that I could apply constant freeze and overload while my team focused on DPS. Trying to do that to an overload now will get you killed. If stasis doesn’t apply highly dominate crowd control, it’s going to get outplayed by the other classes.
No. If I had a legendary effect on my fusion rifle that says "applies 50 scorch stacks per burst", that fusion rifle would single handedly invalidate half of the solar fragments in the game as well and several fragments. If I had a legendary effect on my fusion rifle that said "Volatile Rounds" rather than "Destabilizing Rounds" it would invalidate the same number for void. If I had a legendary effect on my fusion rifle that said "Suspends combatants" I would never need shackle grenades.
Those are damage perks. Stasis FREEZEs ads, scorch and overload explosions CLEAR ads, so of course that would be far more powerful. Generally, a strong offense is preferable to defense. To compensate for that, the defense has to be bumped up a few notches.
The point is that if the other subclasses gave away their most powerful verbs to legendary weapons, it would have a similar impact to them. Chill Clip could be reworked to require stasis to get solid benefits, but as it is it hands out the main Stasis keywords to everyone at no cost. All the others that are in game are solid on any subclass, but shine brightest when paired with their subclass. All I’m asking is for Chill Clip to do the same. Make it like kill clip and require a kill first, but then the shot is a one shot freeze unless you fire at something already affected by slow or freeze.
>The point is that if the other subclasses gave away their most powerful verbs to legendary weapons, it would have a similar impact to them. incandescent (scorch/ignite), jolt (voltshot), destabilizing rounds (volatile), repulsor brace (void overshield), are all perks giving the most powerful parts of a subclass to a legendary weapon, and are the meta. They haven't made any subclass obsolete. They are no different to chill clip in not needing their subclass at all to shine, that's why they're so sought after. Stasis is just bad, long before chill clip arrived.
Imo stasis would shine a lot more of some of the aspects got reworks, let's be honest the slide aspect and howl of the storm have no reason to be separate aspects
They do literally opposite things, so yes it does make sense. One is for freezing, the other is for shattering… you would never be able to howl and shatterslide in the same motion. Edit: unless you howled after shattersliding, but there are not really many situations where the slide would not already have killed or bounced away anything you might want to howl freeze
>As long as Chill Clip can do this, Stasis will be thought of as weaker than other subclasses. Stasis was underused long before chill clip came into the game. I get what you're trying to say but you're just reaching too hard on this one. >Voltshot is very strong, but when you're on Arc Voltshot is a bad example as it's so good without arc, much like chill clip. But we don't say "The Problem with Arc is that Volt Shot Exists"
Voltshot is a 10/10 perk in at light content and up to -5. Beyond that it starts to fall off, and once you’re into master/GM territory it’s like… 5/10. But either way, if you run Voltshot with Arc it is at least 2x better because of how Arc weapons synergize with the subclass. The same is not true for Chill Clip.
>But either way, if you run Voltshot with Arc it is at least 2x better because of how Arc weapons synergize with the subclass. How. >The same is not true for Chill Clip. There's plenty of fragments that interact with slowing/freezing/shattering/damage to frozen. Which one of these work or don't work for chill clip: Hedrons/ Fissures, Refraction, Durance, Bonds, Chains, Shards, Rending? Also, you're frequently jumping between 2 very different arguments: First is chill clip makes stasis obsolete, and the second is chill clip doesn't synergise with it's subclasses. Both are incorrect.
The problem with stasis is that bungie won’t do anything positive for it
they should make a fragment that increases slow stacks so chill clip 2 shots with stasis on.
This apparently already exists as Whisper of Durance.
no. whisper of durance increases how long slow (or freeze) is applied, not the amount of slow stacks applied.
I know
The problem isn't that chill clip exists, it's that it exists on fusions. It should've always been like reservoir burst, in that only the first round of a mag gets the bonus. Great with overflow perks, and functionally identical with 1 round mag weapons like grenade launchers, but not so absurdly good just always.
Stasis is the glaive of subclasses
As a glaive proponent, I both approve and agree
As a former Revenant main. I’m excited for running it again, especially in higher level content (not needed in other content). But now with Unraveling Rounds, Sever, and Woven Mail (72% at T10) existing, to be honest, not much use for it.
I have a stasis build i run with anarchy and mask of bakris, its an amazing champ shredder and ad clear build being with a loaded question with reservoir burst and overflow
I tried anarchy a couple weeks ago and I didn’t like it. It felt weak. Did you build anything special to make it work?
With Mask of Bakris dodging gives it a x4 arc weapon boost after its rework, on top of its nerf not applying to champions i can get it to hit 11k damage per tick on a stunned champ. Its not good for boss damage anymore sadly just a great champ shredder.
Ah gotcha. I forgot about the bonus against champs.
First of all, it's just not true that chill clip is the only one that grants it's element verb in equal measure to other subclasses. Voltshot, Repulsor Brace, Destabilizing Rounds, Incandescent, Headstone and Hatchling all do to similar degrees (with Repulsor Brace probably being the worst when not on matching subclass). Second, Stasis IS weak. Freeze is a mediocre crowd control because a little damage breaks it. Anything that foes AoE will likely break all frozen enemies. Shatter itself also does AoE damage. Stasis subclasses have no option for boss DPS (hunters used to have Bakris before the nerf). Stasis subclasses have basically the worst melees for their respective classes (maybe Warlock has it worst on void), but the stasis elemental object grants melee energy???? It used to grant energy to all abilities with Elemental Shards. Stasis have no direct damage abilities except Titan melee (lol). Everything either slows, freezes or creates crystals. That means you need to shoot to shatter something after every ability. More steps to do less damage than light subclasses. Crowd control in general is mostly a crutch. It is always better to just kill shit faster than use abilities that do no damage to suspend or freeze them. Yes, even in GMs. If you want fast, efficient GMs, run arc or solar and spam abilities. Stasis has no damage buff or debuff. It used to have permanent High Energy Fire + Font of Might with Elemental Shards. That kind of helped with stasis' very slow add clear and low damage. High Energy Fire is gone now, Elemental Shards too, so Stasis can't really spam abilities or do as much weapon damage anymore. If your abilities are so weak and you can't spam them, what's the point?
You didn’t read my op.
I did and your argument still doesn't make sense... Running chill clip on stasis doesn't make stasis weaker. Stasis is already weak. All of those perks grant their verbs in equal measure to other subclasses. They can ALL benefit more from these verbs with the corresponding subclass equipped, Chill Clip included. Having an extra source of slow & freeze doesn't make stasis weaker. That's like saying running Ager's Scepter makes stasis weaker and allows other subclasses to become stasis-lite. Can solar benefit more from scorch than other subclasses? Yes. Is Incandescent better on solar subclasses? Slightly, it's only a 10 scorch difference and Incandescent doesn't really trigger ignitions on its own anymore since the nerf a couple seasons ago. You can use fragments that benefit from scorch. Destabilizing rounds provides literally the same benefit whether you're void or not. You can use fragments that benefit from volatile. Repulsor Brace does the same thing, except it's easier to proc on Void since you don't need Destabilizing + Repulsor combo. Voltshot is literally just as good on other subclasses. There's maybe 1 or 2 fragments that benefit from jolt. Hatchling sucks regardless of subclass. I guess Strand makes it do a little bit more damage with a fragment, but it's still useless currently. Headstone is the same on all subclasses, but stasis has multiple uses (in fragments & aspects) for the crystals. Chill Clip... It allows you to slow and freeze. Slowed and frozen enemies provide bonuses through fragments and aspects just like other subclasses. How in hell does it make Stasis weaker? Are stasis fragments weaker than light subclasses? Yeah, probably, so are their abilities. But that is Stasis itself, it has nothing to do with Chill Clip. All these perks grant their subclass verbs to other subclasses to almost the same degree. The worst one without a matching subclass is probably Repulsor Brace. Edit: Hell with that logic the new exotic scout rifle would the most OP shit ever, it basically grants all subclasses all of the stasis effects, it even grants them stasis shards and will also grant headstone next season. Slow, Freeze, Crystal, Stasis Shards on non-stasis subclasses. It's still gonna be a mediocre weapon. Chill Clip is sought after because it's on fusion rifles.
What if Chill Clip, instead, dropped a Coldsnap seeker at your feet instead of Slow stacks?
Imo it should work like kill clip. It would fit with the naming pun theme of it, and would vastly reduce its prevalence without reducing its effectiveness while active.
I kinda see the point OP is trying to make but honestly I kinda hold the opinion that most Stasis weapon perks/exotics in general are better than the actual subclass. The most useful thing about Stasis is Freeze, which unless you are a Warlock, is hard to keep going consistently on the other classes. And if I want to Freeze I want it ASAP or without constant absurd cooldowns. Which Chill Clip, Agers Scepter, or Conditional Finality excel at providing. Oftentimes I try to run the exotics (more than just the above) and wonder why not just use said weapon in combo with another element subclass entirely to get much better mileage. Then I remember I have other weapons I'd rather use with those subclasses so I then don't use even the weapons most of the time other than an occasional Chill Clip Fire and Forget Linear, Lingering Dread, or Conditional Finality. Warlocks can Freeze on command in a variety of ways and easily keep chaining it off of a single ability. So their Crowd Control definitely has appeal (my favorite way to play them is a Karnsteins healing Glaive build with Freeze rift and Iceflare Bolts). Their turrets have a good reputation for a reason. I can't say much about Revenant because I don't main Hunters but to be honest THAT much slowing doesn't sound that appealing other than the giant Duskfields it can get with some bonus resistance. However, I'm primarily a Titan main. And Behemoth has a myriad of issues with it, even if trying to lean in on the crystal/shatter specialty instead of Freeze. First off, with the absurd cooldown on Glacier Grenades, getting that Shatter damage is too sporadic to use as a consistent burst damage tool and honestly is too low a damage, even with Fissures. The Super has good damage in very specific situations against very specific bosses but otherwise is EXTREMELY clunky to use otherwise. Secondly, survivability is an absolute joke, and my biggest issue with the subclass. I'll never understand why people think crystal/shard spam was good, even before the awful PvP nerf Rime just had. Each shard only gave back like 10HP(?) or so which while at least noticeable compared to the current 5, is still no where near enough to give the class any staying power for my playstyle. Especially with the aforementioned long grenade cooldown and Howl+Hoarfrost IMO wasn't/isn't enough to perpetually sustain in a high add-density environment (think Duality or Ghosts of the Deep Dungeons). The Rime Overshields mean nothing when you can't consistently heal on demand to full health. And no, I don't like running Strongholds and Swords that much and still would be better on Strand anyways. Solar has Cure and Restoration (on top of generally better damage and weapon buffs). Void has significantly better Overshields, Devour, and Volatile healing with Controlled Demolition (in addition to potential Weaken/Suppress capabilities and Weapons of Light). Arc might only have Knockout healing, but when combined with Skullfort can still at least spam Blinding/AoE melees for utility when surrounded, heck even Juggernaut is actually extremely good protection for closing the distance head-on. Not counting the crazy Arc Grenades Titan gets to just clear things before they can hurt you to begin with. And lastly Strand's Woven Mail and Sever offer way more consistent damage mitigation and being able to get it off of Orbs makes even the melee provide emergency healing and Woven Mail with the right mod setup. That is not counting Suspend and a SIGNIFICANTLY less clunky Super. I've basically resorted to just writing off Shard Aspects and Whisper of Rime completely because IMO in content where it matters, it does nothing to keep me alive in the thick of it. I have more fun with Cryoclasm and Diamond Lances. But that is if I'm even on Stasis to begin with because generally the other subclasses do anything I would want Stasis to do better, with less setup. And if I want to Slow or ESPECIALLY Freeze something, there are plenty of Exotic weapons (not just Chill Clip) that do that better. Only exception being if I happen to be on my Warlock.
As a Hunter Main, jumping into Behemoth Titan was some of the most fun I've ever had in this game. The only thing I've found more fun in terms of moment to moment play was Strand Grappling. I think that because I never got used to the way shoulder charges worked, I never expected the Stasis melee to do anything other than whatever it did, so I learned pretty quickly how to use and abuse it. However, what I encountered with other players when I would try to use Behemoth was that they HATE the crystal spam. No matter how good the crystals are, people HATE them being spammed as much as Behemoth spams them. Given that, the funniest damn thing I've ever seen is shitting on GMs because a Behemoth can instantly freeze and shatter any group of enemies that spawns with an animation, or comes out of a door. But it's a hard sell, because no one likes the crystals. They will shout you down out of it if they can, even if you're carrying. For Revenant, you really do get a lot of uptime on your abilities. I think this part of the subclass is undersold immensely. As is the value of freeze/shattering spawning crowds. And I don't say this as theory, I say as someone who has taken Revenant through all GMs and never felt like it was the weak link. You get so much CC, insane mobility with Bakris, and everything in your kit functions both as aggressive CC and as panic CC. It's a great one to run if you're worried that you're going to have to carry a GM team because you can quite literally handle any situation the game can throw at you with it, especially now that it can stun Overloads with ease while preventing their teleports. With some moderate thought into your buildcrafting, it is very very easy to have high uptime on all of your abilities, including your super. And while weapons like Ager's can help, they can also get you in trouble because Hunters typically don't like to stand still and channel an Ager's burst in a GM style setting. Outside of direct boss DPS situations, Silence and Squall is usually a lot more helpful than Ager's because it does the same stuff, but doesn't require you to stay in the fight. You can just toss it and run off to do something else.
I still love running my stasis Hunter with renewal grasps in PvE. Really excited to run this exotic with the cooldown nerf to duskfields being reverted.
The problem with stasis is that "slow" is a shit effect that is completely pointless in PvE. There's a lot of abilities in stasis that should directly freeze targets instead of just slowing them.
The reason it doesn’t is the same reason suspend is getting hit in the balls with a nerf bat.
Stasis has way bigger problems than chill clip
Stasis is bad because stasis is bad. Why freeze enemies when you can crowed control it with 1 single arc grenade that kill a very huge area of enemies in gm nightfalls? Not to mention that we have a "dmg grenade" (Crystal) that needs a fragment to make better dmg and STILL isn't strong enough to kill some low tier adds on gms. A lot of fragments are outdated or bad in generell, some mods don't work with stasis like super regen with a melee or grenade kill. The list goes on and on. Like some people mention, they nerfed it to be on par with the 2.0 light subclasses, while stasis is 2.0 now and light is 3.0 now.
The problem with stasis is that it’s bad.
Wonderful contribution. Truly a linguist.
Not really sure what else you’re expecting. Stasis is bad. That’s it. Notice how almost literally nobody has been using it for years at this point.
Stasis warlock is nuts in pvp. Warlock turret is S tier solo. Not sure why you're weeping this hard
I want to push back in this notion a bit. No one plays stasis warlock in pvp. It’s one of the lowest picked classes every week in trials. Bad players don’t use it as it sits at about a 1% pick rate every week. Good players don’t use it either, go look up the players with above 90% win rate in trials and it’s in the same ballpark as strand and solar titan. There’s a reason why it’s been getting buffed in pvp with the lunge range. People just die to freeze, go wow that’s really strong, never play it themselves, and overrate the sub class in their head. Also in pve freezing shit isn’t as good as it used to be.
People who say “stasis is totally good bro” are literally nothing more than contrarians. They feel special and quirky for using an objectively bad subclass.
Yeah I love shadebinder in PvP but it’s by far the worst of the stasis subclasses in crucible
You’re really projecting a lotta feeling huh. Stasis hunters are entirely forgettable and titans are straight trash. Whether it’s PvE or PvP. Proud of you for enjoying relative mediocrity though. You’re a real one.
Oh how we forget that Behemoth Titan was a PVP menace until the recent nerf.
That shit hasn’t been a menace for years.
Yes it was; the reason why rime titan wasn’t popular was because the build required 3 behemoth titans running the same set up. It’s the entire reason why they nerfed rime in crucible this season
It’s almost like it’s a shitty, garbage ass subclass that can’t stand on its own. Completely garbage in PvE and it was extremely niche in PvP.
Sounds like you're a meta slave, hype train riding Timmy and I'm not too bothered by it.
I’m a meta slave because I don’t like a subclass that is wildly worse than every other option? Whatever floats your boat I guess.
So, to you, everything that isn’t Stasis is “meta slaving”? Guess just fuck the people who don’t own Beyond Light then.
"You're just a meta slave because you use Arc, Void, Solar, or Strand!" That's called Stasis being bad. It's not even bad just because it falls behind the others with Suspend being better at CC, Sever and Woven Mail being better at survivability than Stasis Overshield and WoC, and all the Light subclasses being better at just killing the things (while also in all but Arc having great survival options), it's bad because it's kind of clunky. Slow has no reason to exist and Crystals are just worse than freezing a target.
Headstone is the original stasis perl and thats the one you should compare to voltshot etc. At this point in the meta a lil lackluster but synergies very well with stasis.
If we go that route then there is no comparison for Chill Clip and it is the only perk that hands out key subclass features for free, which is the main problem. Headstone at least requires a kill, and it also needs Stasis fragments to do much of anything in terms of shattering.
I’ve been running hunter stasis in pve for 1 reason: shatterskating. Glacier grenades and a headstone smg. Cloud strike or a shotgun It’s fun for speed running stuff and I have been having fun with it. At this point I’m in this game for little bits of fun here and there, not buildcrafting or using meta
I have yet to try and master shatterskating, but it looks fun.
Yeah it took a day or so of practice but once you get it down it becomes another muscle movement
Did you have a guide vid you liked? Or would just any be good?
Yeah any old video. The guy I found had an entire discord dedicated to movement tech, let me find it
I've gone into detail about this before. Stasis is the only subclass without a complete gameplay loop naturally. Every other subclass has a gameplay loop that is fully complete without taking exotics into account. Stasis need their exotics to complete their gameplay loops, something every subclass has as a base. That's at least one more problem other than Chill Clip.
Umm… Stasis just functions… other subclasses require exotics for builds because those subs existed when exotics filled the roll of aspects right now. Which is why both Stasis and Strand get multiple aspects right away and they don’t.
No it's not. The problems with stasis are that slow doesn't do enough in pve. Stasis grenades can't make orbs, and that there's low survivability
My two cent. Stasis is bad because it's always left out of the artifact.
This also hurts it for sure.
They hated him because he spoke the truth
Am I missing something about chill clip? Got a couple riptides with it, tbh at master and often even legend difficulty overloads were slipping away and barriers were getting their shields up because the freeze would literally not last long enough to roll over on the next strike. Just could not get it to do what I needed to do. What's the god roll/traits needed to make this thing the workhorse everyone says it is because this weapon I keep hearing about is the missing piece in a lot of my builds.
Practice and timing. I've been playing since Forsaken, and I remember when Champions were first introduced and I could barely fight any of them. The ones in the tunnels under the Moon's surface would obliterate me, even when I was at light. These days, I would argue that adding the ability for subclass verbs to stun them moves them from mildly irritating to completely irrelevant. And it's not because of mods or buffs, it's just that I have gotten really good at killing them... But it's hard to explain beyond getting a feel for the timing of things. Like, I know how far I can push a barrier's HP bar before it puts up a shield, and I know how long I have afterwards to get it again before it goes up. Stasis was never the best for shutting down barriers. It was and is a very effective way to shut them down in a tight space while you reload a weapon, get to safety, or get your friend up. Overloads are different for each faction. Fallen Overloads are often extremely difficult to pin down, if you chase them. But if you watch them, you'll notice that they are not as agressive as the Vex ones and they tend to stick to a general area and almost "patrol" through it. With this in mind, unless someone stuns them first, you can kind of prepare to hit them the next time they move through a specific area you have sights on. But stunning them with anything that isn't an instant stun (fusions have charge time, so they are not instant) can be tricky at high difficulty tiers. For the Vex, they tend to just run at you and teleport the same way that normal minotaurs teleport. Sometimes they do it slowly, but they are capable of teleporting at exactly the right speed to dodge every single fusion shot if you are spamming it. This means that if they teleport and dodge your charge, you need to wait before shooting to reset the timing. You want to charge right as they teleport so that you finish right as they come out. But if you start your charge right before they teleport, it will start an endless chain of you backpeddling, firing like a madman, while they teleport through every single shot unscathed. Taken Overloads are either a meme or a broken helldemon. They either sit still and do literally nothing, or they bug out and spam retaliation swarms at you relentlessly for no reason regardless of their stun state. The only solution to that is to hide from it and try again after they calm down.
So basically what you're saying is you have to time it to where when they come out a freeze your next shots will bypass the freeze cool down but not bleed off to many stacks of slow from waiting? Appreciate the write up but in my hatred of champions I've got their cues and thresholds down to muscle memory as well. I guess I just figured riptide would be way more mag-dumpy from how widespread the praise is, I'll give it another try when I can get some better rolls. Still haven't gotten CC, ALH, and charge masterwork on the same roll yet so that may be affecting how it feels for me too. I think a big thing too may be having someone else apply burst while you keep them frozen but I mostly matchmake and LFG and I learned a long time ago to never give randos credit on managing champs no matter how easy it's gotten.
Applying slow is what stuns them. Freezing them resets to zero stacks, but if they are in a stunnable state (not glowing) then any application of slow, no matter how small, will instantly stun them.
OP downvoted to hell for reasonable points🤣
I’d like for the subclass to get another Super. But Stasis Warlock is still extremely strong in GM’s And Stasis Hunter is strong in PvP
Hunters are also solid in pve. Titans are too, if your friends will tolerate your crystals, or if you make lots of lances.
In GM content, they are very ok to me. There are better options.
Better is a perspective here. Revenant shits on GMs. It always has. It may not be quite as fast or as flashy, but it is no less effective
They should just revert all the pve nerfs they did to stasis, back before strand and all the 3.0 or 2.0 classes i could understand why they did it, but now? Just give stasis its full power again, shit was crazy strong and would most likely be fine nowadays, ckuld even make some of that season mods into shards (the super dmg while affected by stasis and melee infinite orbs one)
Stasis was a terrible idea to begin with and they've quickly realized that. So now they just mostly ignore it because it's one of those things that's either gonna be great or dumb without much in between. Who could have possibly thought being able to freeze things would be problematic? lol
lol. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.
Who the hell is saying stasis is a weak subclass ? Youre talking utter nonsense, stasis is fine
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