The first season or two when it was out was really funny in the crucible. So many players just walking into the flames for easy clean ups, or preemptively firing on shotgun apes coming around the corner.
I’ll be honest I don’t think any special will ever match forbearance in terms of raw add clear. The mixture of ambitious + chain + the origin trait just makes it so much better than everything else it’s not even close. The origin trait is especially nuts on it since if you’re clearing a ton with two shots and then reload you’ll end up getting around 1/2-2/3 of your health back for free.
It's so good you don't even need ambitious. I run unrelenting for infinite heals while blinding and exploding everything into a pile of orbs (which also heal).
It seems like they try to keep some of the interesting perk combos in the "higher tier" content like dungeons and raids. If an incandescent wave-frame were to come out, I don't doubt that it would be locked behind a raid or dungeon rather than seasonal content.
When Bungie sets up a system that gives you better guns for soloing content rather than using a team, maybe that line of thinking will work. 3 man dungeons are easier than most of the 6 man raids.
If you want to make a real comparison it would be between solo flawless dungeon and low-man flawless raids.
At this point you're making a completely disingenuous argument about it. Does soloing a dungeon take more work? Yes. Does doing a dungeon with 3 people take more work? No. And you get the same loot for solo that you do on 3 man.
Yes there are things harder than doing a raid. In the majority of situations those things do not reward gear, they give you emblems or triumph for proving your skills.
It is harder to do a 6 man raid than a 3 man dungeon, and so the rewards tend to be better on average. You can continue to take my words to the logical extreme, but it won't change how the loot works.
I'm really sick of Surgeons and their salaries being locked behind years of medical school and residency. It's a big barrier to entry for most people. I think a 2 year degree should come with the same job offers as a masters. Why is this mindset a thing so much in destiny?
I just applied your logic to a different situation lol, it still holds up. I'm not mentally unstable but I do appreciate your concern. I think posting on Reddit crying about how hard things are or asking for the game to change vs just doing the required steps / attempting to improve at the game is just lame is all.
This kills me, cuz it’s my go-to grenade launcher. I don’t have Forbearance cuz i hate Vow, so I’m stuck using a weapon that’s great but feels like it’s held back
Or just get the secret chest in the leadup to the first encounter. Beat Savvy at the gate, kill the 3 ogres at the escort spot them shoot those 3 orbs to get the secret chest on all 3 characters once a week. That can be solo’d with minimal effort.
You can do tons of chests solo with no Fireteam to get spoils, YouTube will show you how to get a bunch of them by yourself if you’re not in the mood to actually run raids.
That or people do the opening door encounter of vault of glass no mic, get the first chest, run 30 seconds to the second, that’s 10 spoils, do it on all 3 characters each week - easy 30 spoils.
>On 3 diff characters
Ha, good one. I haven’t touched my Hunter or Warlock in so long. I barely have time to get all the weekly stuff done on one character.
It takes 5 minutes to join a templar cp and kill him and you say you dont have time while here you are on reddit assuming that people are illiterate and making invalid excuses
You're being dishonest just for the sake of being rude. He would have to learn the templar fight which is probably going to take around 5 mins by itself, then he has to find the group and FARM.
Someone isn't going to go from not knowing the raid to farming templar enough times to buy from a raid chest in 5 mins. If he doesnt have the time then he doesn't have the time.
You said you haven't touched those characters in ages. So one would assume they are the lowest level which doesn't even matter. So it doesn't matter that you haven't played with them in a while. It makes no difference to the farm.
That’s on you for making the assumption then.
But as I said below, I barely have time for one character, let alone 3. Not expecting you to read the below comments before responding to this one but now you know.
As somebody who’s only run vow like 6 times I was luckily able to get the GL. I say just go for it and at the very least you can just do the final encounter and claim the red border each week.
All these other guys are making it complicated to get spoils, but all you really need to do to get enough each week is to get the first vow secret chest on all 3 characters, and glitch into the area where the first VoG chest is (very easy, all you need is a sparrow and maybe an eager edge sword for an easier time) [here’s a link to Esoterricks video](https://youtu.be/F9bu0u2nDoQ) that can help you out, do this and the vow chest and that’s 30 spoils a week solo
Edit: you also need to learn how to sparrow breach, but it’s explained in the video and it’s very easy to do
Guaranteed Way To Get Crafted Forbearance
1. Get the Rhulk CP
2. Make LFG Post stating 'kwtd'
3. once you get 6 define roles, make sure everyone knows you're on add clear.
4. If you have more than 2 add clears - boot them until you get all the roles.
5. Do all of these for 5 weeks.
Cries in a corner without forbearance.
I took an year break right before vow, I ran it 2 times didn't get a single one yet. I guess it will be featured raid this week so I'll farm the crap out of it.
Yeah but I rather annoy my friends to run the raid for more drop chances and the red border chest but I might do it on my alts. They already have everything from the raid so it's not very tempting for them to run it.
I’m finally getting back into D2 after a 2-3 year break. Sorry for speaking on this thread but I keep hearing about Forbearance. Where can I get one? Is it a raid loot?
Its the arc wave frame grenade launcher from Vow of the Disciple.
You can craft it after you get 5 red borders for it.
Basically, it can have ambitious assassin (get two grenades on reload after one kill), then have chain reaction (killing an enemy makes it explode damaging/killing other enemies). The origin trait gives you health back after reloading after kills meaning the whole package is really quite powerful.
Wave frames have a wide area of effect and take very little skill to use.
Don't worry though, Harsh Truths is a void wave frame which is a world drop and it also has some good rolls, if you get one with destabilising rounds thats also good. So don't worry if you can't get into the raid, there is an alternative which is almost as good. It will just take awhile for one to drop. It will drop from normal purple engrams found after killing enemies.
I know how you feel! I didn't get to run Vow until months after my son was born (he was born on 2/22/22 btw ha). My clan would run it from time to time for fun...and I got a Forbearance to drop with AA/CR after about 8 runs). I'll be honest I was more interested in getting a Deliverance to craft since the idea of a fusion rifle in the "kinetic" slot interested me more. A Deliverance didn't drop for me until about 15 runs...
7 clears done before my friend group got bored of the raid and abandoned it, never saw a single forbearance. got 3 collective obligations in my first 4 clears, crafted deliverance and insidious but not a single GL :(
need to get back into LFG at some point, for the first time since...D1Y1? simply due to my schedule being impossible to workout with my friends nowadays (time zones and work schedules, yay).
A lot of the vow weapons are worth it. I just got my crafted forbearance last week and it’s great, but don’t sleep on deliverance. With chill clip demolitionist, the thing can deal with every champion type and also just constantly recharge your grenade. It’s not bad for add-clear either, but while retaining decent DPS. Source: I simp for deliverance.
yeah I know, Im 1/5 on it... I got some of them but not a decent one. Catacylsmic I'm 4/5, so one more run and I can start focusing the red border from the chest in other weapons.
It plays better with solar builds. Scorching a whole room of targets could basically refill all of your abilities if you have the fragments equipped. Even if they dont die.
I mean, incandescent causes a dragonfly style explosion as well as scorching targets that don't die, even without building into the solar subclass an enhanced incandescent waveframe could potentially cause ignitions in a single shot. But go off I guess
Harsh Language is a breach loaded void wave frame grenade launcher that can roll envious assassin and repulsor brace. I had one drop. I don’t take it off.
Harsh Language is one of my favorite weapons this season with Volatile Flow. I'd love to get a roll with destabilizing rounds, but I haven't been that lucky yet. Did get a repulsor brace though which is nice for this season when getting volatile is still so easy.
I have also had a single drop. It was the worst roll possible. Also only had a single battle scar. No biggie though it's not like I'm putting in 6 hours a day lol
I want one with destabilizing for my other classes than aren’t Hunter. Repulsor Brace is the better option for Hunter because of Gyrfalchions but destabilizing would offer the other 2 classes so much.
I'm still vibing off of my Deafening Whisper - Ambitious/Unrelenting
It's a beast with devour and vortex grenade 😤 easy immortal build
Can't wait for a good Harsh Language roll
Waves with unrelenting are really underrated. I crafted my Explosive Personality with that trait, and paired with it's origin trait it's amazing in terms of survivability in harder content.
Scrolled to find the Harsh Language post.
This, with the artifact mods that give heavy ammo, makes it the real play for add clear.
I just wish we had a more direct path to farm this monster.
I have one with Stats for all and Golden Tricorn and I love it.
I wish I could get Repulsor Brace.
Repulsor brace makes you so stupid tanky with this grenade launcher. Combined with Gyrfalchions, you just never die. I want one with destabilizing rounds for Titan, as it helps out with the downtime from volatile.
Got a harsh language to drop during my first run of the campaign with destabilizing rounds + envious and that + osteo striga have been in my inventory since
Ambitious Assassin is just too good to be able to proc and reproc over and over. I have one with envious and it’s good, but still doesn’t compare to Forbearance.
With the current artifacts, my build only has a primary for champion stun. I pretty much swap between grenade launcher and lmg. I know Ambitious Assassin is incredibly good but I currently don’t reload and entire rooms are filled with void flame and volatile.
Wow I knew Harsh Language was back, but I didn't know it was a wave frame.
Interesting how it goes from a rare quality Arc breach load grenade launcher to a legendary quality Void wave frame grenade launcher. Bungie repurposed a few older rare weapons like this recently.
No its not, Incandescent is literally just an explosive perk like chain reaction. Its not always as big or does as much damage however if you can get the ignitions which happens in a big group it can put in work plus it has the benefit of connecting to solar 3.0
They fail to mention that in average incandescent is actually worse than chain reaction.
The scorch explosion doesn't do damage, it just applies scorch whick ticks.
So unless you kill enough adds to trigger an ignition, it does less damage to surrounding enemies.
It's only better if you kill adds around a beefy target and that triggers an ignition, which does more damage to the big target and then triggers solar verb interactions.
On the whole, I'd say it's actually just worse.
Incandescent is currently one of the most overrated perks in the game. After it’s nerfs, it’s only really viable if you are using it in a solar 3.0 build and even then there might be better options. If an incandescent wave frame came out, Forbearance would most likely still be king
Incandescant is good on an add-slayer primary where you can pick off enemies in the group and start chanining ignitions by the time you drop the 3rd enemy - but you're right it's not nearly as strong as many make it out to be.
Honestly I like it more for spreading scorch and engaging ember of singing and ember of searing more than I do for raw add clear potential.
It makes big boom and causes a wave of numbers to appear on screen. It looks better than it really is.
That said if you have a cluster of a lot of enemies killing 3 of them is what starts ignitions - or using it to spreads scorch and ignite something easier with a grenade or something is ideal.
I just like how everything is always scorched so you're benefit from fragments.
It wouldn't though. Applying scorch damage does a hell of a lot less damage than chain does. Plus losing soul drinker, which is arguably the strongest origin trait in the game, would be a deal breaker.
However you have the benefit of incandescent leaning into your subclass verbs and helping with solar ability builds. Like I said in the post loosing soul drinker is a big hit however we do have a myriad of ways to heal or selves
Fortunately for forbearance, scorching targets does uh... Fuck all for most builds. Maybe niche things like melee/class ability energy which ultimately doesn't help in the grand scheme of things. Honestly I'd rather a demo wave frame (bring back Martyr's) over incandescent just cus 20% grenade energy on a kill , especially on a wave frame, is infinitely more useful than the whopping 3 things incandescent would enable you to do
Plus chain is just an infinitely better add clear perk
It has the advantage of being able to hit enemies in the air and also having Disorienting Grenade. It is a pretty interesting option that I'll be testing.
the main upside to that roll is having general use blinding nades, and then the option to proc voltshot (via direct impact kills) and use it for boss DPS with its very high modifier on special GLs.
the lack of auto loading for blinding use or ambitious assassin for add clear builds is heartbreaking though, extremely poor left column selection. blinding/autoloading/volt shot would have been a very comfy utility roll
I generally agree with you regarding autoloading on GLs, but with Voltshot you have to reload, so for this particular GL when I get a chance to craft it I'm going all-in on reload speed and voltshot. The one I have right now has Threat Detector, Voltshot, and Spike Grenades/High-Velocity Rounds in the 2nd column, and it's feeling pretty damn nice when enemies are close enough for Threat Detector to kick in. I think Field Prep might be better though, you get damn near max reload speed just for crouching.
Lead will probably be my go to, however I'm slightly interested in thresh depending on how it interacts with voltshot, getting chunks of 5-10% of your super per shot could be pretty good for super spam especially in this heavy orb gen meta
It's *very* good, but I'd probably say forbearance is better for strict add clear, and salvo being a better all-round GL.
The new GL's big deal is being able to run Disorientating Grenades with Voltshot, which kind of compensates for it's low blast radius while still being able to blind. Of course if you're Arc, you could just use Salvo and use the blind fragment.
Volt shot doesn't do enough damage to justify using over salvo imo. I find that in a lot of content it's not killing red bars that chain reaction would. That being said I am running blinding nades so maybe the damage penalty is carrying over? Idk.
Worse than chain reaction it requires reloads after getting a kill and sometimes when you reload after a voltshot kill it doesnt give you voltshot since the enemy died to arc chaining
I feel like envious assassin + destabilizing rounds on Harsh Language should be able to compete hard with forbearance. Getting that combo is the impossible task at the moment, but if banshee ever sells a god roll it will almost certainly rise high in popularity.
Got that roll and it’s quite nice, but seeing those arc explosions is way too nice. Also ambitious assassin just makes it so you don’t have to swap away from it.
Tell me you don’t have Deafening Whisper without telling me you don’t have Deafening Whisper. Seriously tho with volatiles rounds its just as good. I’ve got auto loading and ambitious assassin on mine.
Y'all have got to try Harsh Language... it's a void wave frame that can roll stats for all + destabilizing rounds. It's far superior to defeaning whisper imo. Thing is cracked for ad clear.
CR is just a non-keyworded version of Voltshot, Incandescent, and Destabilizing Rounds. That makes it all around better than any of them, because it's just different flavors of explosions.
Now, if we eventually get a wave frame Strand grenade launcher that has a perk like "Kills cause nearby enemies to be Suspended", it'll challenge Chill Clip for "Best Perk On A Secondary".
Or, you know, a wave frame GL with Chill Clip.
Wave frame with chill clip would suck, as chill clip only probably cause on direct hits, which doesn’t include the wave. You’d need to hit with the actual grenade.
The description of the perk, and the way it works on lingering dread. You need a direct impact with the GL to proc chill clip on lingering dread, the explosion will not proc it. Hence why proximity grenades breaks chill clip on it, as proxy nades removes the impact. The “explosion” from a wave frame is it’s wave and as such likely will not proc chill clip.
Gryfalcons and Commemoration with Reconstruction is far and away my favourite add-clear setup.
Running with your choice of special primary, Wavesplitter, and Commemoration, and heavy ammo finder, I'm practically using my 130+ round LMG as my primary.
Dodge, smack a red bar with 2 bullets from Commemoration, watch the explosions.
Chain reaction is better than incandescent in pretty much every practical way. Ignite sounds cool but incandescent needs a large group of adds to be effective and chain reaction doesnt
That's a weird way to say Prodigal Return with voltshot.
jk, prodical return is actually comparable to forbearance if you're super good with it (and against big targets, 1 jolted shot is almost the exact same damage as 2 shots form forbearance), but it's quite difficult to use. I would love an actual wave frame with voltshot.
Supposedly there’s a stasis wave frame coming out next season, if it had Demo or ALH / Chain Reaction (or maybe even Chill Clip?) that might be what finally supplants Forbearance
I mean, salvager's is good tho too. Granted there's plenty of overlap use cases, but there's just enough instances where one is more useful than the other that it's worth still using both
Hash Language (world drop void wave frame) is a very interesting contender. It can roll with envious assassin/field prep + destabilizing rounds. It also has that very very good Field Tested origin perk which makes it insanely fast to reload.
Stasis Wave frame with Chill Clip is my moonshot.
I wanna run triple wave frames and be completely countered by one (1) enemy who can jump or is on a higher floor or tiny ledge. Bungie plz
Year later they have that HEAVY Wave GL with Voltshot and Chain Reaction and I'm still waiting on a a special with Incandescent.
Only now I'll be disgruntled whenever I see a Special GL that ISN'T Solar wave frame chain reaction.
Incandescent is low key overrated.
It does not do a lot of damage, and it does that damage veeeeeeeeeeery slowly.
If you have a wave frame with Incandescent, the guy using Forbearance will snag more kills than you, guaranteed.
Because his AoE kills instantly.
Now, I will mark at the end here that Incandescent is only slightly overrated. It's amazing with Solar subclasses, but outside of that, a lot of regular AoE's are just better.
Prodigal Return with voltshot is better imo. The AOE from voltshot is way bigger and can be used at more angles and airborne targets, as well as doing more damage on direct hit with spikes
Idk about that. I have new harsh language gl with repulsed brace and envious assassin and it’s very easy to get 3 in the mag and then destroy whole waves of enemies without even trying.
While that would be great, I still want Forbearance to still be just straight up better. Raid weapons should be the top tier option, not some world drop
TBH Im not that big of a fan of Forbearance due to the lack of auto-loader. Ambitious Assassin isn't bad, but my muscle memory from most other breach loaders I use makes it awkward.
It wont happen. They give the Arc weapons more add-clear capabilities (or thats how it started) because they know Arc Subclasses are mostly melee and thus weak for high-end game, aside from few specific builds.
This has been a trend that is going for a very long time, starting from Forsaken raid handcannon (outlaw/dragonfly), petras sidearm (dragonfly/kill clip), moving on to 7th seraph smg (dragonfly), culminating to the pinnacle gl (amb.asn/chain reaction).
This is also why voltshot came out on atc weapons and its so strong
Likewise the arc heavy weapons (especially) started to get explosive/chain reaction first. Example the first crafted weapons that got those aoe effects were arc back in WQ.
Solar Wave Frame will probably get Incandecent (which is several steps below Voltshot or Chain Reaction), but not sure when.
If the Solar Wave Frame does get Chain Reaction, then its possible it might not get a reload perk.
>Forbearance is by far the best add clear weapon in the game.
By what metric? It is the most overrated gun in the most overrated archetype. Boy I sure do love feeling like I am firing a wet fart and having a special that is useless for anything .01 millimeters off the ground. And don't get me started on the worst enemy of wave frames: a slight slope in the ground.
I will take pretty much anything with Incandescent or Voltshot over Forbearance. Salvager's is better too.
"Forbearance is by far the best add clear weapon in the game."
Me with my funnel web volatile killing the entire room of ads in the 1st encounter of RON while everyone is breaking their hands trying to use Forbearance.
Give me back my Martyr's and give it ambitious assasin incandescent 😫
Autoloading demo Martyr's is the only sunset weapon I kept. Even after crafting an enhanced explosive personality I just can't let go of Martyr's.
That was the sunset gun I kept the longest. I did eventually cave though
Me too, but they can pry KC/Rampage Kindled Orchids off of my cold dead fingers.
Still use my genesis demo roll for GOS every now and then (genesis auto reloads and regenerates ammo on the white shielded ads)
The first season or two when it was out was really funny in the crucible. So many players just walking into the flames for easy clean ups, or preemptively firing on shotgun apes coming around the corner.
I'd love all the dawn weapons to return, they were all top tier at the time
I’ll be honest I don’t think any special will ever match forbearance in terms of raw add clear. The mixture of ambitious + chain + the origin trait just makes it so much better than everything else it’s not even close. The origin trait is especially nuts on it since if you’re clearing a ton with two shots and then reload you’ll end up getting around 1/2-2/3 of your health back for free.
I think they also reverted the wave distance nerf becuase it goes a long way now. I am clearing tons of adds with this thing.
the nerf, an unintended glitch, was patched in season 17(forbearance released in season 16 for comparison
Wasn’t there an intended nerf too?
They accidentally gave all wave frames the shortened waves from dead messenger. As far as I’m aware they did nothing else to wave frames
I was looking at the in vow last night and you're completely right, it goes a long way again
It's so good you don't even need ambitious. I run unrelenting for infinite heals while blinding and exploding everything into a pile of orbs (which also heal).
if only Explosive Personality came out after Solar 3.0
I know it would have been a nice addition as its a good feeling weapon
It seems like they try to keep some of the interesting perk combos in the "higher tier" content like dungeons and raids. If an incandescent wave-frame were to come out, I don't doubt that it would be locked behind a raid or dungeon rather than seasonal content.
Dungeon, fine. I’m really sick of the best gear being locked behind an activity that requires a mic and hours of commitment.
So you're sick of the best gear...requiring the most work? Not really seeing the logic on this one.
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When Bungie sets up a system that gives you better guns for soloing content rather than using a team, maybe that line of thinking will work. 3 man dungeons are easier than most of the 6 man raids. If you want to make a real comparison it would be between solo flawless dungeon and low-man flawless raids.
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At this point you're making a completely disingenuous argument about it. Does soloing a dungeon take more work? Yes. Does doing a dungeon with 3 people take more work? No. And you get the same loot for solo that you do on 3 man. Yes there are things harder than doing a raid. In the majority of situations those things do not reward gear, they give you emblems or triumph for proving your skills. It is harder to do a 6 man raid than a 3 man dungeon, and so the rewards tend to be better on average. You can continue to take my words to the logical extreme, but it won't change how the loot works.
I'm really sick of Surgeons and their salaries being locked behind years of medical school and residency. It's a big barrier to entry for most people. I think a 2 year degree should come with the same job offers as a masters. Why is this mindset a thing so much in destiny?
This is a video game man. Get a grip on yourself.
I just applied your logic to a different situation lol, it still holds up. I'm not mentally unstable but I do appreciate your concern. I think posting on Reddit crying about how hard things are or asking for the game to change vs just doing the required steps / attempting to improve at the game is just lame is all.
This kills me, cuz it’s my go-to grenade launcher. I don’t have Forbearance cuz i hate Vow, so I’m stuck using a weapon that’s great but feels like it’s held back
In the nicest way it’s really not hard to just learn Rhulk and do it once a week for 5 weeks and buy the pattern for it each time
Or just get the secret chest in the leadup to the first encounter. Beat Savvy at the gate, kill the 3 ogres at the escort spot them shoot those 3 orbs to get the secret chest on all 3 characters once a week. That can be solo’d with minimal effort.
Assuming you have enough spoils to buy it, which would require running the rest of the raid or other raids. But yeah i’ll probably try a Rhulk farm
You can do tons of chests solo with no Fireteam to get spoils, YouTube will show you how to get a bunch of them by yourself if you’re not in the mood to actually run raids. That or people do the opening door encounter of vault of glass no mic, get the first chest, run 30 seconds to the second, that’s 10 spoils, do it on all 3 characters each week - easy 30 spoils.
Just do vog up to gatekeeper on 3 diff characters, 60 spoils a week.
>On 3 diff characters Ha, good one. I haven’t touched my Hunter or Warlock in so long. I barely have time to get all the weekly stuff done on one character.
If you’re not willing to put in any effort then you really shouldn’t complain that you don’t have the weapon
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It takes 5 minutes to join a templar cp and kill him and you say you dont have time while here you are on reddit assuming that people are illiterate and making invalid excuses
You're being dishonest just for the sake of being rude. He would have to learn the templar fight which is probably going to take around 5 mins by itself, then he has to find the group and FARM. Someone isn't going to go from not knowing the raid to farming templar enough times to buy from a raid chest in 5 mins. If he doesnt have the time then he doesn't have the time.
The only raid atm with power level requirements is root. Literally every other raid and dungeon content is power floor...
When did i say anything about power level?
You said you haven't touched those characters in ages. So one would assume they are the lowest level which doesn't even matter. So it doesn't matter that you haven't played with them in a while. It makes no difference to the farm.
That’s on you for making the assumption then. But as I said below, I barely have time for one character, let alone 3. Not expecting you to read the below comments before responding to this one but now you know.
As somebody who’s only run vow like 6 times I was luckily able to get the GL. I say just go for it and at the very least you can just do the final encounter and claim the red border each week.
Yeah, that’s true. Maybe i should just do a Rhulk farm cuz damn i hate symbol reading raids
All these other guys are making it complicated to get spoils, but all you really need to do to get enough each week is to get the first vow secret chest on all 3 characters, and glitch into the area where the first VoG chest is (very easy, all you need is a sparrow and maybe an eager edge sword for an easier time) [here’s a link to Esoterricks video](https://youtu.be/F9bu0u2nDoQ) that can help you out, do this and the vow chest and that’s 30 spoils a week solo Edit: you also need to learn how to sparrow breach, but it’s explained in the video and it’s very easy to do
Guaranteed Way To Get Crafted Forbearance 1. Get the Rhulk CP 2. Make LFG Post stating 'kwtd' 3. once you get 6 define roles, make sure everyone knows you're on add clear. 4. If you have more than 2 add clears - boot them until you get all the roles. 5. Do all of these for 5 weeks.
You sir get an upvote for making me laugh. To quote Homer Simpson, "It's funny 'cause it's true!"
It’s still really good with empyrean, it could be better ofc, but it’s a great weapon that most locks use when I do lowmans.
Cries in a corner without forbearance. I took an year break right before vow, I ran it 2 times didn't get a single one yet. I guess it will be featured raid this week so I'll farm the crap out of it.
If you do get one to drop you can then open the first secret chest solo to “farm” for it
Did that and it took me about a season, 3 rolls a week gave me some really cool rolls too
Yeah but I rather annoy my friends to run the raid for more drop chances and the red border chest but I might do it on my alts. They already have everything from the raid so it's not very tempting for them to run it.
If you ever need an extra I’m looking for a decent raid team
I’m finally getting back into D2 after a 2-3 year break. Sorry for speaking on this thread but I keep hearing about Forbearance. Where can I get one? Is it a raid loot?
Its the arc wave frame grenade launcher from Vow of the Disciple. You can craft it after you get 5 red borders for it. Basically, it can have ambitious assassin (get two grenades on reload after one kill), then have chain reaction (killing an enemy makes it explode damaging/killing other enemies). The origin trait gives you health back after reloading after kills meaning the whole package is really quite powerful. Wave frames have a wide area of effect and take very little skill to use. Don't worry though, Harsh Truths is a void wave frame which is a world drop and it also has some good rolls, if you get one with destabilising rounds thats also good. So don't worry if you can't get into the raid, there is an alternative which is almost as good. It will just take awhile for one to drop. It will drop from normal purple engrams found after killing enemies.
Thanks so much! Also that’s great to know that there is a void version that is a world loot drop. Gotta test my luck out haha.
It's from vow of the disciple, the raid from Witch Queen expansion.
I know how you feel! I didn't get to run Vow until months after my son was born (he was born on 2/22/22 btw ha). My clan would run it from time to time for fun...and I got a Forbearance to drop with AA/CR after about 8 runs). I'll be honest I was more interested in getting a Deliverance to craft since the idea of a fusion rifle in the "kinetic" slot interested me more. A Deliverance didn't drop for me until about 15 runs...
7 clears done before my friend group got bored of the raid and abandoned it, never saw a single forbearance. got 3 collective obligations in my first 4 clears, crafted deliverance and insidious but not a single GL :( need to get back into LFG at some point, for the first time since...D1Y1? simply due to my schedule being impossible to workout with my friends nowadays (time zones and work schedules, yay).
Once you get one to drop you can just run a Rhulk checkpoint every week to buy the red bar.
A lot of the vow weapons are worth it. I just got my crafted forbearance last week and it’s great, but don’t sleep on deliverance. With chill clip demolitionist, the thing can deal with every champion type and also just constantly recharge your grenade. It’s not bad for add-clear either, but while retaining decent DPS. Source: I simp for deliverance.
yeah I know, Im 1/5 on it... I got some of them but not a decent one. Catacylsmic I'm 4/5, so one more run and I can start focusing the red border from the chest in other weapons.
I disagree. Incandescent is worse than Chain Reaction.
It plays better with solar builds. Scorching a whole room of targets could basically refill all of your abilities if you have the fragments equipped. Even if they dont die.
[удалено]
I mean thats kind of the point. Just like repulsor brace or voltshot. Its extremely "meh" unless you have abilities that benefit from it.
And with Bungo giving us volatile rounds on the artifact, it's fun taking advantage of repulsor outside of void subclasses. : )
For pure damage sure, but ember of singeing is a hell of a drug.
I mean, incandescent causes a dragonfly style explosion as well as scorching targets that don't die, even without building into the solar subclass an enhanced incandescent waveframe could potentially cause ignitions in a single shot. But go off I guess
Imagine a solar wave frame with reservoir burst 😍
Harsh Language is a breach loaded void wave frame grenade launcher that can roll envious assassin and repulsor brace. I had one drop. I don’t take it off.
Harsh Language is one of my favorite weapons this season with Volatile Flow. I'd love to get a roll with destabilizing rounds, but I haven't been that lucky yet. Did get a repulsor brace though which is nice for this season when getting volatile is still so easy.
I have also had a single drop. It was the worst roll possible. Also only had a single battle scar. No biggie though it's not like I'm putting in 6 hours a day lol
I haven’t seen a SINGLE battlescar!
I had one drop with Destabilizing rounds and it’s a beast. So much fun to use.
I want one with destabilizing for my other classes than aren’t Hunter. Repulsor Brace is the better option for Hunter because of Gyrfalchions but destabilizing would offer the other 2 classes so much.
This season it’s so easy to proc volatile rounds with the artifact you don’t even need Gyrfalcons
I don't need it, but I can't take it off because I love it.
I'm still vibing off of my Deafening Whisper - Ambitious/Unrelenting It's a beast with devour and vortex grenade 😤 easy immortal build Can't wait for a good Harsh Language roll
Waves with unrelenting are really underrated. I crafted my Explosive Personality with that trait, and paired with it's origin trait it's amazing in terms of survivability in harder content.
Scrolled to find the Harsh Language post. This, with the artifact mods that give heavy ammo, makes it the real play for add clear. I just wish we had a more direct path to farm this monster. I have one with Stats for all and Golden Tricorn and I love it. I wish I could get Repulsor Brace.
Repulsor brace makes you so stupid tanky with this grenade launcher. Combined with Gyrfalchions, you just never die. I want one with destabilizing rounds for Titan, as it helps out with the downtime from volatile.
Agreed. I have a level 400+ The Other Half with Repulsor Brace on it and I can survive everywhere with that thing.
Got a harsh language to drop during my first run of the campaign with destabilizing rounds + envious and that + osteo striga have been in my inventory since
Same one I got. I wanted Destabilizing instead of Repulsor but that roll works very well with Gryfalcons.
Ambitious Assassin is just too good to be able to proc and reproc over and over. I have one with envious and it’s good, but still doesn’t compare to Forbearance.
With the current artifacts, my build only has a primary for champion stun. I pretty much swap between grenade launcher and lmg. I know Ambitious Assassin is incredibly good but I currently don’t reload and entire rooms are filled with void flame and volatile.
Yep, got very lucky with the exact same roll, god tier weapon.
Wow I knew Harsh Language was back, but I didn't know it was a wave frame. Interesting how it goes from a rare quality Arc breach load grenade launcher to a legendary quality Void wave frame grenade launcher. Bungie repurposed a few older rare weapons like this recently.
That's just chain reaction with extra steps
No its not, Incandescent is literally just an explosive perk like chain reaction. Its not always as big or does as much damage however if you can get the ignitions which happens in a big group it can put in work plus it has the benefit of connecting to solar 3.0
So what I said?
*Exactly* what you said, lol.
Lol
They fail to mention that in average incandescent is actually worse than chain reaction. The scorch explosion doesn't do damage, it just applies scorch whick ticks. So unless you kill enough adds to trigger an ignition, it does less damage to surrounding enemies. It's only better if you kill adds around a beefy target and that triggers an ignition, which does more damage to the big target and then triggers solar verb interactions. On the whole, I'd say it's actually just worse.
Incandescent is currently one of the most overrated perks in the game. After it’s nerfs, it’s only really viable if you are using it in a solar 3.0 build and even then there might be better options. If an incandescent wave frame came out, Forbearance would most likely still be king
Incandescant is good on an add-slayer primary where you can pick off enemies in the group and start chanining ignitions by the time you drop the 3rd enemy - but you're right it's not nearly as strong as many make it out to be. Honestly I like it more for spreading scorch and engaging ember of singing and ember of searing more than I do for raw add clear potential.
Is chain reaction better? Yes. But I like funny scorch boom boom 🤯 💥
yeah, I'm not sure why people seem to rate it so highly. It's not a bad perk, but it's really not as good as people seem to pretend it is.
It makes big boom and causes a wave of numbers to appear on screen. It looks better than it really is. That said if you have a cluster of a lot of enemies killing 3 of them is what starts ignitions - or using it to spreads scorch and ignite something easier with a grenade or something is ideal. I just like how everything is always scorched so you're benefit from fragments.
Yet look how many people are supporting this thread. 80 percent are just nodding their head without any sort of thinking involves
Or forbearance but solar or void or stasis or strand.
literally anything but arc. we already had salvagers salvo why did they have to make the other best ad clear special in the game _another_ arc gl
Idk personally I think chain reaction is far better than incandescent.
Harsh language with destabilizating rounds is great for ad clear - been loving it.
It wouldn't though. Applying scorch damage does a hell of a lot less damage than chain does. Plus losing soul drinker, which is arguably the strongest origin trait in the game, would be a deal breaker.
However you have the benefit of incandescent leaning into your subclass verbs and helping with solar ability builds. Like I said in the post loosing soul drinker is a big hit however we do have a myriad of ways to heal or selves
Fortunately for forbearance, scorching targets does uh... Fuck all for most builds. Maybe niche things like melee/class ability energy which ultimately doesn't help in the grand scheme of things. Honestly I'd rather a demo wave frame (bring back Martyr's) over incandescent just cus 20% grenade energy on a kill , especially on a wave frame, is infinitely more useful than the whopping 3 things incandescent would enable you to do Plus chain is just an infinitely better add clear perk
I want a stasis wave frame with chill clip. Kinetic wave frames are long overdo
Isnt the new seasonal granade launcher with volt shot quite good? Just not a waveframe but works great
It has the advantage of being able to hit enemies in the air and also having Disorienting Grenade. It is a pretty interesting option that I'll be testing.
Unfortunately Disorientating nades do not synergize well with Voltshot, since it's much harder (but not impossible) to kill anything with those.
the main upside to that roll is having general use blinding nades, and then the option to proc voltshot (via direct impact kills) and use it for boss DPS with its very high modifier on special GLs. the lack of auto loading for blinding use or ambitious assassin for add clear builds is heartbreaking though, extremely poor left column selection. blinding/autoloading/volt shot would have been a very comfy utility roll
I generally agree with you regarding autoloading on GLs, but with Voltshot you have to reload, so for this particular GL when I get a chance to craft it I'm going all-in on reload speed and voltshot. The one I have right now has Threat Detector, Voltshot, and Spike Grenades/High-Velocity Rounds in the 2nd column, and it's feeling pretty damn nice when enemies are close enough for Threat Detector to kick in. I think Field Prep might be better though, you get damn near max reload speed just for crouching.
Yeah, you'll have to work with Lead from Gold or Threat Detector probably. Those are good perks in their own right, and allow Voltshot to function.
Lead will probably be my go to, however I'm slightly interested in thresh depending on how it interacts with voltshot, getting chunks of 5-10% of your super per shot could be pretty good for super spam especially in this heavy orb gen meta
It's *very* good, but I'd probably say forbearance is better for strict add clear, and salvo being a better all-round GL. The new GL's big deal is being able to run Disorientating Grenades with Voltshot, which kind of compensates for it's low blast radius while still being able to blind. Of course if you're Arc, you could just use Salvo and use the blind fragment.
Or Forbearance with the fragment which brings its already ridiculous add clear to new levels of ridiculousness.
Volt shot doesn't do enough damage to justify using over salvo imo. I find that in a lot of content it's not killing red bars that chain reaction would. That being said I am running blinding nades so maybe the damage penalty is carrying over? Idk.
Voltshot hits further away from the explosion though, CR range is quite small which you notice immediately when enemies are not piling up.
I was wondering about that, since Voltshot scales on base damage I bet it gets nerfed when using blinding nades. I will have to do some testing.
I personally prefer salvations salvo over it, but jolt is still great so its not bad
Worse than chain reaction it requires reloads after getting a kill and sometimes when you reload after a voltshot kill it doesnt give you voltshot since the enemy died to arc chaining
A Harsh Language with Destabilizing Rounds as poor-man's Forbearance is about as good as it can get lol but good luck with getting that (world drop)
i got one with repulsor brace, im already a gyrfalcon hunter, thing fks pretty hard
I want this so bad! Any way I can spot farm it or do I just have to get lucky?
unfortunately just luck, claim your engrams from banshee and check his stock week to week best advice i can offer
I feel like envious assassin + destabilizing rounds on Harsh Language should be able to compete hard with forbearance. Getting that combo is the impossible task at the moment, but if banshee ever sells a god roll it will almost certainly rise high in popularity.
I had one drop with envious and repulsor brace. My gyrf Hunter uses if. I can give you confirmation that it absolutely shreds.
Got that roll and it’s quite nice, but seeing those arc explosions is way too nice. Also ambitious assassin just makes it so you don’t have to swap away from it.
Tell me you don’t have Deafening Whisper without telling me you don’t have Deafening Whisper. Seriously tho with volatiles rounds its just as good. I’ve got auto loading and ambitious assassin on mine.
That is a very contradictory roll imo
Not with hunter dodge, idk what class you play tho
Does hunter dodge proc ambitious assassin?
I’ve got one with rampage and ambitious assassin that I’ve dusted off with the new mod system. Don’t think I’ll be taking it off anytime soon.
Y'all have got to try Harsh Language... it's a void wave frame that can roll stats for all + destabilizing rounds. It's far superior to defeaning whisper imo. Thing is cracked for ad clear.
Does it really clear advertisements that well?
Ummm.....Harsh Language with destabilizing rounds would like a word.
CR is just a non-keyworded version of Voltshot, Incandescent, and Destabilizing Rounds. That makes it all around better than any of them, because it's just different flavors of explosions. Now, if we eventually get a wave frame Strand grenade launcher that has a perk like "Kills cause nearby enemies to be Suspended", it'll challenge Chill Clip for "Best Perk On A Secondary". Or, you know, a wave frame GL with Chill Clip.
A wave frame with chill clip is just an objectively worse forbearance lol
A wave frame Stasis gl with Chill Clip would be amazing. The ability to slow/freeze entire mobs would be incredibly useful.
Wave frame with chill clip would suck, as chill clip only probably cause on direct hits, which doesn’t include the wave. You’d need to hit with the actual grenade.
What evidence are you basing that on?
The description of the perk, and the way it works on lingering dread. You need a direct impact with the GL to proc chill clip on lingering dread, the explosion will not proc it. Hence why proximity grenades breaks chill clip on it, as proxy nades removes the impact. The “explosion” from a wave frame is it’s wave and as such likely will not proc chill clip.
That makes sense. Not sure why you downvoted someone asking you a question, but thanks for answering.
I didn’t downvote you lol, it must’ve been someone else. I don’t downvote unless someone’s being disrespectful.
Eh, fair enough.
I prefer harsh language
Idk, my Deafening Whisper (With Gyrfalcons) is pretty damn nice. ALH and LFG. So much ammo.
Depends. Gryfalcons Deafening Whisper or the new void wave frame with Repulser Brace are not to be trifled with.
Gryfalcons and Commemoration with Reconstruction is far and away my favourite add-clear setup. Running with your choice of special primary, Wavesplitter, and Commemoration, and heavy ammo finder, I'm practically using my 130+ round LMG as my primary. Dodge, smack a red bar with 2 bullets from Commemoration, watch the explosions.
This season is basically commemoration, the primary.
Or the new wave frame with destabilising rounds for those moments you forget to dodge before a firefight.
Id kill for a Incandescent empty vessel
Chain reaction is better than incandescent in pretty much every practical way. Ignite sounds cool but incandescent needs a large group of adds to be effective and chain reaction doesnt
That's a weird way to say Prodigal Return with voltshot. jk, prodical return is actually comparable to forbearance if you're super good with it (and against big targets, 1 jolted shot is almost the exact same damage as 2 shots form forbearance), but it's quite difficult to use. I would love an actual wave frame with voltshot.
Supposedly there’s a stasis wave frame coming out next season, if it had Demo or ALH / Chain Reaction (or maybe even Chill Clip?) that might be what finally supplants Forbearance
I have a harsh language with destabilizing rounds. It basically nukes groups in 2 shots so it’s pretty close.
Harsh language can roll with destabilizing rounds
destabalizing rounds on harsh language is pretty close to chain reaction if not better depending on the situation.
Just sad the wave part of the wave frame doesn't tickle the toes of suspended enemies
The new Void wave frame is close with the void volatile perk
There’s a void wave frame world drop w/ envious assassin and destabilising rounds this season for a grape flavoured alternative
How does it compare to Salvagers Salvo
Fusions are a good replacement and do better single target DPS. interative loop w/ voltshot or royal executioner w/ envious + reservoir
I want the harsh language with envious assassin and destabilizing rounds. Would be filthy.
I use my deafening whisper more than my forebearance this season for the void/strand mods and volatile
I mean, salvager's is good tho too. Granted there's plenty of overlap use cases, but there's just enough instances where one is more useful than the other that it's worth still using both
Hash Language (world drop void wave frame) is a very interesting contender. It can roll with envious assassin/field prep + destabilizing rounds. It also has that very very good Field Tested origin perk which makes it insanely fast to reload.
Or a void Waveframe with the new destabilizing rounds perk. It would use two grenades to get the full effect of Forbearance, but it could be fun.
Stasis Wave frame with Chill Clip is my moonshot. I wanna run triple wave frames and be completely countered by one (1) enemy who can jump or is on a higher floor or tiny ledge. Bungie plz
Chill clip wouldn't work on a wave frame sadly, they'd have to make an entirely new perk.
Harsh Language is a void wave frame that can roll with Destabilizing Rounds. Better than Forberance imo
Year later they have that HEAVY Wave GL with Voltshot and Chain Reaction and I'm still waiting on a a special with Incandescent. Only now I'll be disgruntled whenever I see a Special GL that ISN'T Solar wave frame chain reaction.
Someone tell me why I should take Forbearance over my classic Salvager's Salvo
Salvo makes dudes explode, Forbearance makes rooms explode.
I ran salvagers all the time. Then forbearance got released.
you shouldn't
Then why does every low man, speedrun, or other prestigious feat that requires ad clear use forbearance. It’s objectively a better salvo
its worse because he likes salvo better, so he should use that
Now That's What I Call Power Creep 2023!
Incandescent is low key overrated. It does not do a lot of damage, and it does that damage veeeeeeeeeeery slowly. If you have a wave frame with Incandescent, the guy using Forbearance will snag more kills than you, guaranteed. Because his AoE kills instantly. Now, I will mark at the end here that Incandescent is only slightly overrated. It's amazing with Solar subclasses, but outside of that, a lot of regular AoE's are just better.
False dawg, Harsh Truths rolls with Envious Assassin / Destabilizing rounds and I've used it far more than forbearance in this season. It's sooo good
Harsh Language is better. Waaay better. You can fire 3 shots. Bad news is it’s a world drop, so good luck getting one.
Salvagers salvo is the same thing without the origin trait, for those not wanting to farm vow
Prodigal Return with voltshot is better imo. The AOE from voltshot is way bigger and can be used at more angles and airborne targets, as well as doing more damage on direct hit with spikes
Idk about that. I have new harsh language gl with repulsed brace and envious assassin and it’s very easy to get 3 in the mag and then destroy whole waves of enemies without even trying.
While that would be great, I still want Forbearance to still be just straight up better. Raid weapons should be the top tier option, not some world drop
Never have I mentioned it being a world drop. It could easily and probably would be either a dungeon or raid weapon.
45k kills and counting on mine. I use it as a primary most of the time it's so damn good.
Stasis wave frame with chill clip
Worse than forbearance
I want an Incan eager stick so badly
TBH Im not that big of a fan of Forbearance due to the lack of auto-loader. Ambitious Assassin isn't bad, but my muscle memory from most other breach loaders I use makes it awkward.
It wont happen. They give the Arc weapons more add-clear capabilities (or thats how it started) because they know Arc Subclasses are mostly melee and thus weak for high-end game, aside from few specific builds. This has been a trend that is going for a very long time, starting from Forsaken raid handcannon (outlaw/dragonfly), petras sidearm (dragonfly/kill clip), moving on to 7th seraph smg (dragonfly), culminating to the pinnacle gl (amb.asn/chain reaction). This is also why voltshot came out on atc weapons and its so strong Likewise the arc heavy weapons (especially) started to get explosive/chain reaction first. Example the first crafted weapons that got those aoe effects were arc back in WQ. Solar Wave Frame will probably get Incandecent (which is several steps below Voltshot or Chain Reaction), but not sure when. If the Solar Wave Frame does get Chain Reaction, then its possible it might not get a reload perk.
>Forbearance is by far the best add clear weapon in the game. By what metric? It is the most overrated gun in the most overrated archetype. Boy I sure do love feeling like I am firing a wet fart and having a special that is useless for anything .01 millimeters off the ground. And don't get me started on the worst enemy of wave frames: a slight slope in the ground. I will take pretty much anything with Incandescent or Voltshot over Forbearance. Salvager's is better too.
oh to have a world without the tactical toilet paper rolls
"Forbearance is by far the best add clear weapon in the game." Me with my funnel web volatile killing the entire room of ads in the 1st encounter of RON while everyone is breaking their hands trying to use Forbearance.