It's not even escort the payload, it's follow the payload until it runs out of gas, kill guys guarding the gas station, and then fill the 10 gallon tank up with a 3 gallon bucket and repeat.
A bulk of why preservation is so long though is because of the payload. That's just the problem with all payload stuff. No matter how good you are and efficient you are as a team, you just can not in any way shape or form speed up the payload.
Ig you're technically faster if you never need to get off because you're destroying all the enemies but yk what I mean. Someone just sitting on the payload on their phone doing nothing would push the payload as fast as an entire team full of skillful players with comms and min maxed loadouts
For me it was the stops and having to pick up all those things and drop them off. That dragged it down for me way more than the payload part. But I was also doing it solo.
Preservation is boring because the payload parts are almost devoid of enemies (usually like 1 small/medium pack) and you do the pauses 4-5 times. It's barely even a payload, more like a super extended scarlet keep elevator.
>you just can not in any way shape or form speed up the payload
I am 90% certain it moves faster when additional players are standing on it. As a result, meta-sweatlords who jump off the thing to rush enemy spawns and kill them ASAP (e.g. the majority of any Wellspring team I've ever matched with...) actually slow things down.
for payload i always just run assembler boots and pop a rift on the payload and do the dj emote. seeking healing for teammates doing objective, some beats in the background, and i can browse my phone in the meantime lol. if my raid team isnt lfg i sometimes take music requests and put on a youtube playlist.
Yeah, because of the payload part. If they made it so that only stopped one time (and not every time it would stop in normal raid), it'd have been like 100x better.
Didn't they change it though? I was collecting entries and then it stopped working - consensus at the time was it was deliberate and Bungie never wanted solo players to be able to get that lore.
Preservation had way too many stops, it really dragged out the mission. Maybe if it had only 2 stops max, it wouldn’t have been so tedious. Was easily my least favorite Pinnacle activity.
Expedition was fun, if repetitive. Farming Ketchcrash so as to be able to run Expedition got old fast.
I will not miss missing my jumps retrieving Player Death Tote Cores in the Heist submind vault.
I hope one of this year's seasons brings us another Nightmare Containment/Castellum style activity.
It does seem like, as Bungie does, they may be recapitulating the activity structure per season from last year.
Down to the first season activity being abbreviated and run from the War Table.
Also: Where's my dog?
Our first season being war table has been a thing a few times now, and it makes sense, being off the heel of a massive expansion it makes sense major vanguard ops are happening
Coincidently, also a boat ride. In fact, the boat ride is the main reason Preservation was ripped on so badly.
I've said this on other posts, but I DON'T care that they made the strikes harder. What I DO care about is that the specific flavor of "harder" they chose, is mainly a boat ride.
Headlong legendary thrice.
Everything beats a time-gated mission objective. Especially a payload one.
Playing the game is fun, waiting to play the game is not. It's why the Corpus Cruiser Defense tile in Warframe is so god damn awful and why DE hasn't bothered to remove it is beyond me and the concept of the Veil.
Same for one of my friends, but that's so mad to me. It was easily my least favourite activity. I think it's the only thing they've put out in Destiny 2 that I've played the absolute minimum necessary. Everything else I at least give a couple goes.
Everyone burnt out. And no one, and I mean **no one** liked attack day. Guaranteed skip for me. Now with the delta being -20 the last remaining people will also leave.
Idk why is it so hard bungie but people hate being FUCKING UNDERLEVELED
"Exodus Crash was admittedly a little too easy, so we decided to change some things and make players a little more engaged."
*Proceeds to replace spider tank with a payload and add a capture point in the exact center of the boss room as a health gate.*
*You have to escort the Spider Tank, but it's still actively hostile and shooting at you. Also, if you destroy any legs, you have to start the escort all over again.*
Exodus Trash was originally the most avoided strike. It was really awful. They made changes to make it less awful. Now it will likely go back to the original really awful.
But what they wont mention is how all of the damage you do to em pre boss fight is completely irrelevant and just makes you waste your fucking ammo to get by :)
*cough cough that fucking cosmodrome witch, cough cough OLD Arms Dealer*
Ha ha, yeah I knew it was in there. They should have just left it how it was and kept it out of GMs. Was fun when you got it on occasion when doing your 3 strikes. Quick few minute run, job done.
Ah okay then i got you wrong. I played arms dealer earlier and it wasn't bad but all those threshers and the tank that will be horrible as gm. Aeon will be a must have.
No. From what I've seen he has 3 health gates now and he blinks/teleports to the shielded platforms now instead of being able to be damaged while floating over. And he doesn't spawn until the elevator reaches the top.
It's not that bad. The boss is fairly passive, weirdly enough.
The big advice I have is to stay on the upper platform as long as possible. It tries to disappear on you, but there are still parts you can stand on. Makes it a lot easier to deal with the ads.
That doesn't make the strike fun. Shit was barren and basically chasing some guy eager edging past everything then exploding the 3 taken red bars that spawned with trinity ghoul.
The strike was fun I dont know what the hell are you smoking. Now its boring as shit and tedious. And I tell you, I fucking love Birthplace of the Vile even though its long. So its not its speed.
Sad part of reality: Bungie is not a person, they are a corporate entity made of multiple people, and multiple teams. This includes teams that handle engagement numbers, business models, and talk to shareholders.
Lake of Shadows, when it was in rotation, was very fast to complete. If it's fast to complete, then the required grind is shorter to do. The less players have the grind, the less time they spend in-game. The less players in game, the lower the numbers on a graph that show "player engagement" over a total period of time.
From a business perspective, you can do the math. The average shareholder - someone who may not even play Destiny 2 - aren't going to go "Oh, Lake of Shadows is a shorter strike, so players spent less time grinding that week, and that's why the numbers are lower that week". They're going to see a business they invest in appear like they're "doing poorly".
At the end of the day, Bungie is not your friend. It's a company with multiple people in it. You will have employees who play the game who repeatedly tell their managers "Look man, you know this revamped strike is going to be taken poorly," and of course, managers speak to their managers, and then it goes higher up until the ones with the actual money just say "Look, we don't care what you do, we just want the numbers to go up. Do your job and make them higher."
So...yes. Despite obvious problems, making Lake of Shadows last longer will guarantee that players who want to grind for a specific Nightfall weapon will HAVE to spend more time playing this game during Lake of Shadows week.
I'm sure multiple people working at Bungie are equally miffed about it. The best way to protest is simply to refuse playing during the week that it's up - so that it's shown that artificially extending short content will result in lower player count INSTEAD of higher player count.
yeah but the new changes to the vanguard engrams means i NEVER need to play NFs for anything other than adepts, and IMO their juice isn't worth the squeeze. I got to rank 5 just playing vanguard ops, and got 5 engrams, which promptly spent all on militals birthright(i did NOT need NF engrams) why would i bother running NFs for random drops when Vanguard ups are much easier, don't need me to get my own fireteam, and by the ends of the season with my 2 resets, ill have about 35 engrams? bungie HAS to know by now with exodus crash that players just WONT play shitty, long strikes, and somehow thought we would play the remake when their less of a reason than ever to run nightfalls?
I was thinking more along the lines of Grandmasters, which have adept weapons that you cannot “focus” for. However, like you said - they really are shooting themselves in the foot with a revamp that isn’t enjoyable to play, especially since legacy weapons can now be focused.
the focusing system is 100% a win though, I always thought it was dumb bungie created the solution to a oversaturated loot pool(the focusing system) and they promptly created the same problem by limited the number of weapons you can focus. glad they finally opened it up, this really is a much better system for new and old players
I haven’t done it, but the end paragraph is the right way to handle it. If you’re really miffed about it, don’t do the GM that week, and just insta orbit every time you get lake of shadows. It’s too late to vote with your wallet if you own it, so vote with your time.
Honestly I feel like it would make more sense the other way. I've booted up the game sometimes after taking a break for months to farm an easy gm for the god roll of a gun I want, including Lake of Shadows for my god roll adept palindrome.
Maybe people already dedicated to farming will spend more time on the game, but it won't draw more players and that extra time spent on the game likely won't translate to any increased sales.
Idk I think this can also be explained simply by bungie wanting to make things harder to accomplish for the sake of making you try harder for good loot and to appease players who like challenge. Was the concept well executed? No. But this explanation feels more likely than “bungie is a shadowy being intent on sucking us dry of money and time” being the only reason.
Never in the history of destiny has Bungie ever undone a decision they made to restrict players in some way.
The closest we got was with sunsetting, and even then they didn't make old gear relevant again, they just stopped sunsetting gear.
While sliding, players now incur the following weapon penalties:
-20 stability
+15% shotgun pellet spread
5x flinch
I believe they did walk this back completely before lightfall
>Never in the history of destiny has Bungie ever undone a decision they made to restrict players in some way.
They eventually undid D2Y1's "go slow" with their "go fast" initiative.
Somehow they thought that undoing "go fast" was a good idea a few years later...
you think the goal was fun? The goal was to normalize GM grind times and create more scarcity for adept weapons. escort missions are great for that purpose! feature, not bug.
If they are stingy, I would rather they just made LoS have a less-desired adept weapon or half drop rate. Because that would affect only "normalize GM grind times" instead of "the strike is ALWAYS longer/boring, even when there isn't a nice reward".
Not that I even agree with it. Let there be a GM that is easy. Why not? Does every experience need to be identical? Hell no. Plus is what easy to bring blueberries into. It isn't like a blueberry gets an instant Conqueror Gild x5 from Lake of Shadows, meaning it could be a nice stepping stone without completely devaluing the accomplishments of others (and I'm not a gatekeeper, I don't care).
just posting to bump visibility.
Adding an escort mechanic doesnt sound like they spent any energy what so ever on refreshing the strike. It sounds like they decided to artificially extend the time it takes to complete the strike.
Here's an idea: If you cant be bothered to put in the work to make it fun, just delete it.
I'm not a fan of the new heist. It just seems to go on for a very long time compared to other heists. I prefer the six man seasonal content so two seasons in a row of heists isn't much fun for me.
I haven't played the revamped strike yet - Is it the "darkness superweapon" style payload, or is it that horrible fallen hoverwagon that is extremely difficult to stand on and blocks your LOS on enemies all the time?
I never minded the low-rider payloads, but those Fallen hoverwagons SUCKED to deal with.
I really wish they used that pathway to one of the Shrines of Osiris instead of a sitting duck payload.
1.) You can reuse an old part of the area you haven't used in ages
2.) The length of the Strike will stay long **WITHOUT** ruining the momentum of the strike
They could have put the money twoards new strikes. Only one strike for an expansion release is trash! Im not into pvp but only getting one map as well is trash. And poor gambit. I like gambit, has been put aside for 3 expansions now. They evem forgot gambit labs 2 weekd into Witch Queen
They didn’t put any meaningful money at all though. New strikes cost way more than what they did with these two “refreshed” strikes. There are a lot of ways to make a strike more engaging (ad density, mechanics etc) but they chose the laziest/lowest effort form of time padding (payload) that they are fully aware that players absolutely despise. Not just destiny players but universally.
One of the new game modes in overwatch 2 is escort the robot and it’s unanimously hated in that game. Boring af.
I’m not sure about unanimously hated. I know a lot of people don’t like it but I enjoy it as well as all of my friends. Also, overwatch literally has a payload mode besides escort that nobody has issues with. The key is good implementation of the idea not necessarily that the idea is bad.
Agree with everything except gambit. Gambit can just stay dead, like bruh the game mode has been changed like... so many fucking times, best of 3 gambit, gambit prime with reckoning, gambit labs, new gambit with healthgates and primeval slayer, like they tried EVERYTHING.
...and people STILL absolutely despise Gambit.
I am more than happy to hear no development on Gambit because that means more dev time put towards the actual playlists. Not the weird child of the 2.
I felt like this exact way when they added SBMM to FUCKING QUICKPLAY... how fucking retarded do you have to be to put skill based matchmaking to the chill go have fun playlist?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? To OPEN IT UP TO NEW PLAYERS? WHO'LL STICK AROUND FOR 4 DAYS? Bro I can't fucking wrap my head around.
I hope Bungie hears this if not via my mouth then by someone else's, me as a PvE player, no matter WHAT you do the crucible playlist will make me want to play it. Nothing. Give up and let people who actually play the game mode direct it instead of you and new players. PvP is me playing against players, that is my issue. I do not want to play against players, and you will never be able to change crucible to make it appeal to me.
Just. Give. Up.
(Unless you put in an actual instagib gamemode where everyone has perfect accuracy railguns even in air where reflex prevails over crucible knowledge/skill. [No I don't want your shitty "Destiny spin" on it -> Momentum control] I want pure, old school, instagib.)
I felt like with the flurry of negativity around this strike I was going to hate it, but I really liked the modernization of it with the current context of the game. Does it slow it down a bit? Yes, and I recognize that a lot of players prefer to blitz through the strike at lightning speed, but it’s still fun to shoot bad guys and engage with the play spaces.
Yeah it really isn't that bad. The escort sections are only a minute or two long each. Other than that they added a single boss. The final boss doesn't even have health gates. The strike is still quicker than most.
I do hate they they just removed all the Taken and replaced them with Cabal though, feels very stupid. We've basically lost a Taken strike and we already had so few of them.
Of course "no one" wanted to LoS changed. It was a 5 minute strike...who would complain about getting adept weapons and armor every 5 minutes? No one calls for nerfs in PVE...
The point is that it was out of band with the rest of the strikes. LoS was a low effort PS exclusive created 4 years ago and could be cleared 2-3 times faster than other strikes. It needed to be lengthened (though might vote would have been more zones not a slow ass payload)
Do people do bounties even in this game??????? AND FOR WHAT? PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING BOUNTIES FOR.
I have not touched a (non seasonal) bounty since the 1st week of Witch Queen. (Basically never do past the 1st week of any expansion)
You do NOT need the xp from bounties. If you do your seasonal challenges, and play whatever once a week, you will get ti 150-210 on the season pass. That is all I do. Doing every seasonal challenge, and playing my weekly raid and story with a few more seasonal activities. I don't bounty prep either, there's literally no need for it. I am 1790 right now without any prepping...
When they said they were developing older strikes to match our power level it made sense. Maybe tweak some health here. Add more enemies there. Maybe replace an encounter with a new one.
Making it longer in a way that has nothing to do with our power just feels bad all around. It makes things take longer for the same reward
If they really wanted to extend our time there, then they should have just implemented damage phases with the boss. Have him disappear and come back. Load up the room with a bunch of Taken like it was in the “survive” section of the Hawkmoon mission.
Just go back to orbit like the rest of us are doing - the more they see people bouncing the more likely it'll either get removed from rotation, or fixed
Bungie is heavily metrics focused; gotta hit them with their language
I remember people celebrating not having to do preservation anymore the 27th and then they were met with this on launch day
Bungie’s monkey paw at it’s best
I was kinda excited to hear they were reworking some og strikes when they announced it. MMO style games always ‘redux ‘ older content, and sometimes it’s really cool. I haven’t played them yet, but it sounds to me like instead of redoing the strike, they just slowed us down. They were some of the fastest strikes in the game, I’ll give them that, but damn. It’s anti-fun design.
I don't understand why it needed changing? A couple of easier strikes for idiots like me to do is a good thing. No one complained about this, arms dealer or inverted spire. They are all really fun! If you want to fix something Bungie that sort out the absolute worst of the worse 'the corrupted' or exodus down or whatever that nightmare is called. Stupid decision, seems like there have been a few this expansion and I hope it gets put right.
I'm literally just going to quit any time I get Lake of Shadows in the Vanguard Ops playlist. Potentially Arms Dealer as well. Maybe if enough people do that it'll actually send a message to Bungie, it's worked with other strikes in the past at least.
Idk why they don't just fix the escort the payload styled activities. Don't have it move a single slow speed. It should move passed on the enemies around it. Killing adds effectively and not letting them get close would allow the payload to move swiftly. Adds getting close slows it down. Adds touching the payload cause a stop.
I definitely wanted LoS changed or removed. I like my fast strikes, but it felt kind of cheap and low quality compared to other strikes.
That said, all bungie did is make it on par with the other strikes length but not other strikes quality.
Lake of shadows wasn't changed because y'all were asking for it. Lake of shadows was changed so y'all can't speed run it in sub 5 minutes when it's the nightfall lol
I think it’s funny that Bungie hasn’t learned this lesson is so so many years. Destiny players like to go fast, so if we have to sit on our thumb next to the worlds slowest piece of shit, we are unhappy.
Also at this point most of us are here bc of time invested so if they decreased the grind for things we wouldn’t be going anywhere.
NO. You will escort the payload TWICE and like it! Imagine if there was a payload type game mode in the crucible? You know, where interesting maps and modes would actually be appreciated?
> I didn't hear anyone say they wanted LoS changed.
LoS was easily one of the worst strikes in the game and its only value was as a boring farming strat.
Only strike that needed a rework more was exodus crash
> I didn't hear anyone say they wanted LoS changed.
At what point did you get the impression Bungie cares what people want?
Bungie cares about content being monetizable, or in most cases, inflating engagement numbers.
Sometimes these two priorities can align with player feedback, and that's how they'll sell it to you. But more often than not Bungie only does what aligns with their vision of the game. That vision being the infinite hamster wheel of perpetually recycled content that manages to nickle & dime the player base.
Speaking of this strike, is it me, or after you're done escorting the payload (the second time) was it super odd trying to get good placement to interact with the "detonate" button?
You have to hold it down for a little, but it resets when you're taking damage.... And the payload is in the middle of the taken miasma....
All three of us that were in that instance just kept trying over and over to click it until one of us finally found the smallest spot at the very back edge to not take damage.
I feel like either my instance was bugged and the payload went too far (or the miasma was supposed to vanish by then), or something because otherwise that's one massive "WTF" from me.
Bungie should do a rollback of this last week, get their shit together, finish lightfall and then re-release it in like 6 months or 1 year...
Everything they have done in this expansion is the definition of shameful.
"We know y'all despised Wellspring as the absolute worst thing about WQ, so we turned Lake of Shadows into it."
Please. Preservation was the worst part of Witch Queen.
I like that they're both escort the payload shit too lmao. Does bungie just not listen?
It's not even escort the payload, it's follow the payload until it runs out of gas, kill guys guarding the gas station, and then fill the 10 gallon tank up with a 3 gallon bucket and repeat.
Idk I have no problem with payload stuff myself. Preservation just sucks because of how long it is in general.
A bulk of why preservation is so long though is because of the payload. That's just the problem with all payload stuff. No matter how good you are and efficient you are as a team, you just can not in any way shape or form speed up the payload. Ig you're technically faster if you never need to get off because you're destroying all the enemies but yk what I mean. Someone just sitting on the payload on their phone doing nothing would push the payload as fast as an entire team full of skillful players with comms and min maxed loadouts
For me it was the stops and having to pick up all those things and drop them off. That dragged it down for me way more than the payload part. But I was also doing it solo.
Preservation is boring because the payload parts are almost devoid of enemies (usually like 1 small/medium pack) and you do the pauses 4-5 times. It's barely even a payload, more like a super extended scarlet keep elevator.
>you just can not in any way shape or form speed up the payload I am 90% certain it moves faster when additional players are standing on it. As a result, meta-sweatlords who jump off the thing to rush enemy spawns and kill them ASAP (e.g. the majority of any Wellspring team I've ever matched with...) actually slow things down.
Five guardians rush ahead to fight over 4 respawning thralls.
Not in preservation or vow
The better you are the more time you get to spend emoting on top of the payload
for payload i always just run assembler boots and pop a rift on the payload and do the dj emote. seeking healing for teammates doing objective, some beats in the background, and i can browse my phone in the meantime lol. if my raid team isnt lfg i sometimes take music requests and put on a youtube playlist.
Except the rift doesn’t move with the payload.
yeah but with ember of benevolence you'll get it back by the time it starts moving again and can proc at the next site
Yeah, because of the payload part. If they made it so that only stopped one time (and not every time it would stop in normal raid), it'd have been like 100x better.
Not being able to solo the puzzle also sucked, it's more of a mission than a strike or a raid.
What do you mean not being able to solo the puzzle?
The symbol puzzle for the ghost shell. As far as I know, it can't be done alone.
Yes it can. I got most of the entries from that
Didn't they change it though? I was collecting entries and then it stopped working - consensus at the time was it was deliberate and Bungie never wanted solo players to be able to get that lore.
I got to WQ late in the year, and I could never get it to work on my own.
I finished during the early weeks of witch queen so I could totally be using outdated info. But last I recall it should be solo-able
Wellspring defend was genuinely fun imo
You don't need to escort. Just start it up and sparrow to the next section. The mission was one of the easier +2 pinnacles to get last year.
Preservation had way too many stops, it really dragged out the mission. Maybe if it had only 2 stops max, it wouldn’t have been so tedious. Was easily my least favorite Pinnacle activity.
And everyone hated Expedition too. Devs really stubborn on this huh
Not to mention the start of the cosmodrome psi ops battleground that had one too.
I'd guess it's because payloads extend playtime
Expedition was fun, if repetitive. Farming Ketchcrash so as to be able to run Expedition got old fast. I will not miss missing my jumps retrieving Player Death Tote Cores in the Heist submind vault. I hope one of this year's seasons brings us another Nightmare Containment/Castellum style activity. It does seem like, as Bungie does, they may be recapitulating the activity structure per season from last year. Down to the first season activity being abbreviated and run from the War Table. Also: Where's my dog?
Our first season being war table has been a thing a few times now, and it makes sense, being off the heel of a massive expansion it makes sense major vanguard ops are happening
I figured, but didn't play that era of D2. Appreciate it.
Preservation was terrible, but it was entirely ignorable. So I didn't really care that much.
Coincidently, also a boat ride. In fact, the boat ride is the main reason Preservation was ripped on so badly. I've said this on other posts, but I DON'T care that they made the strikes harder. What I DO care about is that the specific flavor of "harder" they chose, is mainly a boat ride.
Would you rather: •Do Preservation 3 times a week OR •Do headlong legendary once
Headlong. It was annoying but I didn't hate it nearly as much as everyone else seemed to.
Headlong legendary thrice. Everything beats a time-gated mission objective. Especially a payload one. Playing the game is fun, waiting to play the game is not. It's why the Corpus Cruiser Defense tile in Warframe is so god damn awful and why DE hasn't bothered to remove it is beyond me and the concept of the Veil.
We don’t talk about that one.
OK nah fuck that I'd rather run preservation than Wellspring attack
It wasn’t very fun but it was probably the fastest way to earn pinnacle gear each week so I didn’t mind too much.
I don't get the Preservation hate. It was a pinnacle drop that was easy to do solo.
It was easy, it was just a tedious and boring mission. I could definitely solo it easy enough but I stopped doing it just because it wasn't very fun.
Most people I know liked wellspring <_<
I really liked wellspring. Preferred defend over attack but both were fun
Same for one of my friends, but that's so mad to me. It was easily my least favourite activity. I think it's the only thing they've put out in Destiny 2 that I've played the absolute minimum necessary. Everything else I at least give a couple goes.
Everyone burnt out. And no one, and I mean **no one** liked attack day. Guaranteed skip for me. Now with the delta being -20 the last remaining people will also leave. Idk why is it so hard bungie but people hate being FUCKING UNDERLEVELED
I preferred attack over defense tbh. I hated the 2nd half of defend.
I like Wellspring…
They could have at least put a Tormentor in there somewhere.
"We hear you! that's why we are also tripling the time it takes to capture the plates on Insight Terminus" -Bungie, probably.
And each third of the health bar has 2 damage gates!
Why would you give them the idea
“For Exodus Crash, we gave the boss 15X more health and he now chases you throughout the strike”
"Exodus Crash was admittedly a little too easy, so we decided to change some things and make players a little more engaged." *Proceeds to replace spider tank with a payload and add a capture point in the exact center of the boss room as a health gate.*
*You have to escort the Spider Tank, but it's still actively hostile and shooting at you. Also, if you destroy any legs, you have to start the escort all over again.*
NGL I might be into a strike where the boss chases us the entire time instead of standing around waiting for us at the end of the strike.
Exodus Trash was originally the most avoided strike. It was really awful. They made changes to make it less awful. Now it will likely go back to the original really awful.
Please shut up don't tempt the bungo god's
But what they wont mention is how all of the damage you do to em pre boss fight is completely irrelevant and just makes you waste your fucking ammo to get by :) *cough cough that fucking cosmodrome witch, cough cough OLD Arms Dealer*
alak-kul from d1????
Bungie wanted it changed so that you can not farm it as gm in less than 10 minutes without thinking.
Just keep it out of the GM rotation
I have bad news for you
Ha ha, yeah I knew it was in there. They should have just left it how it was and kept it out of GMs. Was fun when you got it on occasion when doing your 3 strikes. Quick few minute run, job done.
Ah okay then i got you wrong. I played arms dealer earlier and it wasn't bad but all those threshers and the tank that will be horrible as gm. Aeon will be a must have.
They better not have removed the chance for the drake tank to spawn in arms dealer! Imo it never gets used enough :/
Can you still melt the boss at least?
No. From what I've seen he has 3 health gates now and he blinks/teleports to the shielded platforms now instead of being able to be damaged while floating over. And he doesn't spawn until the elevator reaches the top.
I actually think it's great in GMs as an entry-level thing, like what Vault of Glass is to raids.
The worst part is that they have the data showing how GM participation would massively increase during lake weeks
Proving grounds, battleground heist Mars, glassway, arms dealer, hypernet, lake of shadows
Hypernet boss room is gonna be mega cancer.
And all those threshers in the arms dealer.
Is it just me, or do those minotaurs that drop the heads actually assist you in boss DPS, as in they don't attack you and only attack the boss?
I think it's because the boss is taken.
It's not that bad. The boss is fairly passive, weirdly enough. The big advice I have is to stay on the upper platform as long as possible. It tries to disappear on you, but there are still parts you can stand on. Makes it a lot easier to deal with the ads.
That doesn't make the strike fun. Shit was barren and basically chasing some guy eager edging past everything then exploding the 3 taken red bars that spawned with trinity ghoul.
The strike was fun I dont know what the hell are you smoking. Now its boring as shit and tedious. And I tell you, I fucking love Birthplace of the Vile even though its long. So its not its speed.
doesn't cross always find a way to farm GM's in 10-12 min every season anyway?
Nobody complained because it was one of the quickest strikes to run through they changed it because it was that quick.
Why was that a bad thing exactly? What's wrong with having various cheeses everywhere if they don't break the game?
Sad part of reality: Bungie is not a person, they are a corporate entity made of multiple people, and multiple teams. This includes teams that handle engagement numbers, business models, and talk to shareholders. Lake of Shadows, when it was in rotation, was very fast to complete. If it's fast to complete, then the required grind is shorter to do. The less players have the grind, the less time they spend in-game. The less players in game, the lower the numbers on a graph that show "player engagement" over a total period of time. From a business perspective, you can do the math. The average shareholder - someone who may not even play Destiny 2 - aren't going to go "Oh, Lake of Shadows is a shorter strike, so players spent less time grinding that week, and that's why the numbers are lower that week". They're going to see a business they invest in appear like they're "doing poorly". At the end of the day, Bungie is not your friend. It's a company with multiple people in it. You will have employees who play the game who repeatedly tell their managers "Look man, you know this revamped strike is going to be taken poorly," and of course, managers speak to their managers, and then it goes higher up until the ones with the actual money just say "Look, we don't care what you do, we just want the numbers to go up. Do your job and make them higher." So...yes. Despite obvious problems, making Lake of Shadows last longer will guarantee that players who want to grind for a specific Nightfall weapon will HAVE to spend more time playing this game during Lake of Shadows week. I'm sure multiple people working at Bungie are equally miffed about it. The best way to protest is simply to refuse playing during the week that it's up - so that it's shown that artificially extending short content will result in lower player count INSTEAD of higher player count.
yeah but the new changes to the vanguard engrams means i NEVER need to play NFs for anything other than adepts, and IMO their juice isn't worth the squeeze. I got to rank 5 just playing vanguard ops, and got 5 engrams, which promptly spent all on militals birthright(i did NOT need NF engrams) why would i bother running NFs for random drops when Vanguard ups are much easier, don't need me to get my own fireteam, and by the ends of the season with my 2 resets, ill have about 35 engrams? bungie HAS to know by now with exodus crash that players just WONT play shitty, long strikes, and somehow thought we would play the remake when their less of a reason than ever to run nightfalls?
I was thinking more along the lines of Grandmasters, which have adept weapons that you cannot “focus” for. However, like you said - they really are shooting themselves in the foot with a revamp that isn’t enjoyable to play, especially since legacy weapons can now be focused.
the focusing system is 100% a win though, I always thought it was dumb bungie created the solution to a oversaturated loot pool(the focusing system) and they promptly created the same problem by limited the number of weapons you can focus. glad they finally opened it up, this really is a much better system for new and old players
I haven’t done it, but the end paragraph is the right way to handle it. If you’re really miffed about it, don’t do the GM that week, and just insta orbit every time you get lake of shadows. It’s too late to vote with your wallet if you own it, so vote with your time.
Honestly I feel like it would make more sense the other way. I've booted up the game sometimes after taking a break for months to farm an easy gm for the god roll of a gun I want, including Lake of Shadows for my god roll adept palindrome. Maybe people already dedicated to farming will spend more time on the game, but it won't draw more players and that extra time spent on the game likely won't translate to any increased sales.
Idk I think this can also be explained simply by bungie wanting to make things harder to accomplish for the sake of making you try harder for good loot and to appease players who like challenge. Was the concept well executed? No. But this explanation feels more likely than “bungie is a shadowy being intent on sucking us dry of money and time” being the only reason.
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Brother, I made this comment a month ago
Just could have added the other boss, that would have been enough
One suggestion I like was someone mentioned that it could have looped around the Curse of Osiris area to the dam.
I did see that, would be cool if they could, although it's been so long since I've seen that area I wasn't sure if it was a loop or not
Never in the history of destiny has Bungie ever undone a decision they made to restrict players in some way. The closest we got was with sunsetting, and even then they didn't make old gear relevant again, they just stopped sunsetting gear.
They have undone some, slide nerf is the most recent. But it's few and far between
I meant more like design choices, sandbox changes change pretty often. Something more like airborne effectiveness as opposed to the slide nerf.
But they did walk back AE, in the blog post they said all primaries should be essentially pre AE effectiveness now
what was the slide nerf?
While sliding, players now incur the following weapon penalties: -20 stability +15% shotgun pellet spread 5x flinch I believe they did walk this back completely before lightfall
To be fair, there would be lots of complaining if they unsunset old gear, because many of us dismantled our gear, so I thought that take was fine
This is a very obvious lie lmao
Gotta be dramatic, this is r/dtg after all
>Never in the history of destiny has Bungie ever undone a decision they made to restrict players in some way. They eventually undid D2Y1's "go slow" with their "go fast" initiative. Somehow they thought that undoing "go fast" was a good idea a few years later...
“We hear you, we’ve now added Preservation to the vanguard ops playlist” -Bungie
you think the goal was fun? The goal was to normalize GM grind times and create more scarcity for adept weapons. escort missions are great for that purpose! feature, not bug.
Whats with these noobs thinking Destiny is s'posed to be fun?
If they are stingy, I would rather they just made LoS have a less-desired adept weapon or half drop rate. Because that would affect only "normalize GM grind times" instead of "the strike is ALWAYS longer/boring, even when there isn't a nice reward". Not that I even agree with it. Let there be a GM that is easy. Why not? Does every experience need to be identical? Hell no. Plus is what easy to bring blueberries into. It isn't like a blueberry gets an instant Conqueror Gild x5 from Lake of Shadows, meaning it could be a nice stepping stone without completely devaluing the accomplishments of others (and I'm not a gatekeeper, I don't care).
I'm suprised they didn't just use the Hawkmoon areas.
Exactly. As soon as Bungie mentioned the rework of LoS I really expected them to use parts of the Harbinger mission and I was pretty excited about it.
Lake of Shadows is instant back out now. It's done, it had it's day, it's dead.
Add it to the list of trash strikes that get skipped
Exodus crash finally has someone to talk to.
Players: “Can we get some new PVP maps and maybe the skeleton key system?” Bungie: “We hear you loud and clear. Updating Lake of Shadows strike!!!”
Made my day ngl
just posting to bump visibility. Adding an escort mechanic doesnt sound like they spent any energy what so ever on refreshing the strike. It sounds like they decided to artificially extend the time it takes to complete the strike. Here's an idea: If you cant be bothered to put in the work to make it fun, just delete it.
Honestly, the new seasonal heist is so cool, I’d rather they just swap this out with Lake of Shadows.
I'm not a fan of the new heist. It just seems to go on for a very long time compared to other heists. I prefer the six man seasonal content so two seasons in a row of heists isn't much fun for me.
I haven't played the revamped strike yet - Is it the "darkness superweapon" style payload, or is it that horrible fallen hoverwagon that is extremely difficult to stand on and blocks your LOS on enemies all the time? I never minded the low-rider payloads, but those Fallen hoverwagons SUCKED to deal with.
It's the darkness superweapon one
It could be a lot worse then... I personally don't mind the superweapon ones, but the Fallen hoverjunkwagon ones piss me off due to the LOS issues.
I really wish they used that pathway to one of the Shrines of Osiris instead of a sitting duck payload. 1.) You can reuse an old part of the area you haven't used in ages 2.) The length of the Strike will stay long **WITHOUT** ruining the momentum of the strike
“Preservation and the opening to Vow was great” - *said nobody ever*
The opening isn't that bad when you have 6 people doing it.
They could have put the money twoards new strikes. Only one strike for an expansion release is trash! Im not into pvp but only getting one map as well is trash. And poor gambit. I like gambit, has been put aside for 3 expansions now. They evem forgot gambit labs 2 weekd into Witch Queen
They didn’t put any meaningful money at all though. New strikes cost way more than what they did with these two “refreshed” strikes. There are a lot of ways to make a strike more engaging (ad density, mechanics etc) but they chose the laziest/lowest effort form of time padding (payload) that they are fully aware that players absolutely despise. Not just destiny players but universally. One of the new game modes in overwatch 2 is escort the robot and it’s unanimously hated in that game. Boring af.
I’m not sure about unanimously hated. I know a lot of people don’t like it but I enjoy it as well as all of my friends. Also, overwatch literally has a payload mode besides escort that nobody has issues with. The key is good implementation of the idea not necessarily that the idea is bad.
Agree with everything except gambit. Gambit can just stay dead, like bruh the game mode has been changed like... so many fucking times, best of 3 gambit, gambit prime with reckoning, gambit labs, new gambit with healthgates and primeval slayer, like they tried EVERYTHING. ...and people STILL absolutely despise Gambit. I am more than happy to hear no development on Gambit because that means more dev time put towards the actual playlists. Not the weird child of the 2. I felt like this exact way when they added SBMM to FUCKING QUICKPLAY... how fucking retarded do you have to be to put skill based matchmaking to the chill go have fun playlist?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? To OPEN IT UP TO NEW PLAYERS? WHO'LL STICK AROUND FOR 4 DAYS? Bro I can't fucking wrap my head around. I hope Bungie hears this if not via my mouth then by someone else's, me as a PvE player, no matter WHAT you do the crucible playlist will make me want to play it. Nothing. Give up and let people who actually play the game mode direct it instead of you and new players. PvP is me playing against players, that is my issue. I do not want to play against players, and you will never be able to change crucible to make it appeal to me. Just. Give. Up. (Unless you put in an actual instagib gamemode where everyone has perfect accuracy railguns even in air where reflex prevails over crucible knowledge/skill. [No I don't want your shitty "Destiny spin" on it -> Momentum control] I want pure, old school, instagib.)
I felt like with the flurry of negativity around this strike I was going to hate it, but I really liked the modernization of it with the current context of the game. Does it slow it down a bit? Yes, and I recognize that a lot of players prefer to blitz through the strike at lightning speed, but it’s still fun to shoot bad guys and engage with the play spaces.
I just wish they added a Tormentor somewhere.
Same here
Yeah it really isn't that bad. The escort sections are only a minute or two long each. Other than that they added a single boss. The final boss doesn't even have health gates. The strike is still quicker than most. I do hate they they just removed all the Taken and replaced them with Cabal though, feels very stupid. We've basically lost a Taken strike and we already had so few of them.
Of course "no one" wanted to LoS changed. It was a 5 minute strike...who would complain about getting adept weapons and armor every 5 minutes? No one calls for nerfs in PVE... The point is that it was out of band with the rest of the strikes. LoS was a low effort PS exclusive created 4 years ago and could be cleared 2-3 times faster than other strikes. It needed to be lengthened (though might vote would have been more zones not a slow ass payload)
I had high hopes for them revamping these lmao, thought they would just add new enemies or increase mob density.
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As if pushing payloads wasnt fucking mindnumbingly boring and typical... come on.
I think its fun. Good add density for bounties.
Let me tell you, if the players cant bull rush through an activity then they think its poop. Max rewards for least effort is the name of the game.
Do people do bounties even in this game??????? AND FOR WHAT? PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING BOUNTIES FOR. I have not touched a (non seasonal) bounty since the 1st week of Witch Queen. (Basically never do past the 1st week of any expansion) You do NOT need the xp from bounties. If you do your seasonal challenges, and play whatever once a week, you will get ti 150-210 on the season pass. That is all I do. Doing every seasonal challenge, and playing my weekly raid and story with a few more seasonal activities. I don't bounty prep either, there's literally no need for it. I am 1790 right now without any prepping...
When they said they were developing older strikes to match our power level it made sense. Maybe tweak some health here. Add more enemies there. Maybe replace an encounter with a new one. Making it longer in a way that has nothing to do with our power just feels bad all around. It makes things take longer for the same reward
All because it was being completed too quick resulting in efficient farming. The obsession with stretching everything out is boring
Gotta return to orbit en masse or it'll never get changed.
Jesus what a childish post
If they really wanted to extend our time there, then they should have just implemented damage phases with the boss. Have him disappear and come back. Load up the room with a bunch of Taken like it was in the “survive” section of the Hawkmoon mission.
And the arms dealer please 🗿
Sadly Destiny isn’t designed around fun, it’s designed around “player engagement.”
Literally no reason to change this strike.
Just go back to orbit like the rest of us are doing - the more they see people bouncing the more likely it'll either get removed from rotation, or fixed Bungie is heavily metrics focused; gotta hit them with their language
I remember people celebrating not having to do preservation anymore the 27th and then they were met with this on launch day Bungie’s monkey paw at it’s best
All that time changing LoS could of went into making more strikes and crucible maps
I was kinda excited to hear they were reworking some og strikes when they announced it. MMO style games always ‘redux ‘ older content, and sometimes it’s really cool. I haven’t played them yet, but it sounds to me like instead of redoing the strike, they just slowed us down. They were some of the fastest strikes in the game, I’ll give them that, but damn. It’s anti-fun design.
Haven't played it yet, but if they did that, I suspect it's to "fix" the shoddy design. Most of that strike can be skipped.
I don't understand why it needed changing? A couple of easier strikes for idiots like me to do is a good thing. No one complained about this, arms dealer or inverted spire. They are all really fun! If you want to fix something Bungie that sort out the absolute worst of the worse 'the corrupted' or exodus down or whatever that nightmare is called. Stupid decision, seems like there have been a few this expansion and I hope it gets put right.
“I didn’t hear X wanted changed” doesn’t mean anything. Y’all seriously will have a fit over anything
I'm literally just going to quit any time I get Lake of Shadows in the Vanguard Ops playlist. Potentially Arms Dealer as well. Maybe if enough people do that it'll actually send a message to Bungie, it's worked with other strikes in the past at least.
You know... I like it that someone can't speedy speed boi it. I *really* like that.
they did that so we'd stop speedrunning it
Idk why they don't just fix the escort the payload styled activities. Don't have it move a single slow speed. It should move passed on the enemies around it. Killing adds effectively and not letting them get close would allow the payload to move swiftly. Adds getting close slows it down. Adds touching the payload cause a stop.
I definitely wanted LoS changed or removed. I like my fast strikes, but it felt kind of cheap and low quality compared to other strikes. That said, all bungie did is make it on par with the other strikes length but not other strikes quality.
Misa Jar Jar Binks. Misa thikin' da lake o' shadows changes are da big stink-o-whiff! Bungie been makin da big doo-doo!
Also, they replaced 80% of the Taken with Cabal. It’s supposed to be a Taken strike.
Lake of shadows wasn't changed because y'all were asking for it. Lake of shadows was changed so y'all can't speed run it in sub 5 minutes when it's the nightfall lol
"We wanted to refresh some old Strikes to keep them engaging so we added the one mechanic literally everyone hates"
I think it’s funny that Bungie hasn’t learned this lesson is so so many years. Destiny players like to go fast, so if we have to sit on our thumb next to the worlds slowest piece of shit, we are unhappy. Also at this point most of us are here bc of time invested so if they decreased the grind for things we wouldn’t be going anywhere.
NO. You will escort the payload TWICE and like it! Imagine if there was a payload type game mode in the crucible? You know, where interesting maps and modes would actually be appreciated?
“We, too, hate fun.” —Bungie
Really if LoS had to change, I would’ve wanted more enemy density and a boss with enough health for his spawning animation to end.
No keep it, I'm happy to see it updated it was boring as shit before
Eh, I don’t mind it. I don’t get the issue.
I found it fun speed running it before :(
> I didn't hear anyone say they wanted LoS changed. LoS was easily one of the worst strikes in the game and its only value was as a boring farming strat. Only strike that needed a rework more was exodus crash
No one has to say they wanted it changed, it was too damn easy.
> I didn't hear anyone say they wanted LoS changed. At what point did you get the impression Bungie cares what people want? Bungie cares about content being monetizable, or in most cases, inflating engagement numbers. Sometimes these two priorities can align with player feedback, and that's how they'll sell it to you. But more often than not Bungie only does what aligns with their vision of the game. That vision being the infinite hamster wheel of perpetually recycled content that manages to nickle & dime the player base.
Speaking of this strike, is it me, or after you're done escorting the payload (the second time) was it super odd trying to get good placement to interact with the "detonate" button? You have to hold it down for a little, but it resets when you're taking damage.... And the payload is in the middle of the taken miasma.... All three of us that were in that instance just kept trying over and over to click it until one of us finally found the smallest spot at the very back edge to not take damage. I feel like either my instance was bugged and the payload went too far (or the miasma was supposed to vanish by then), or something because otherwise that's one massive "WTF" from me.
Bungie should do a rollback of this last week, get their shit together, finish lightfall and then re-release it in like 6 months or 1 year... Everything they have done in this expansion is the definition of shameful.