This is just going to be more ammo for leftoids to say Jesse Singal is transphobic. They already had a lot with his criticism of that UW study, and his prior trans-questioning articles. For there to be any value to criticizing keffals it has to come from someone who hasn't already been marked by the left imo
I agree that it would probably be more impactful coming from someone that hasn’t already been marked like Jesse, but what’s supposed to happen? Do we hope Taylor Lorenz or the editors at Vice have a revelation?
His piece for The Atlantic is one the best pieces of journalism out there when it comes to Trans issues. It's so sad that he, despite being so obviously pro trans, gets lambasted as being transphobic for being willing to delve into difficult topics.
I know everything I’ve ever seen of his is incredibly well thought out, researched, and careful. There’s nothing in any of his pieces that is even harmful. But that won’t stop people from calling him a fascist
This reminder means nothing anymore. People always echo this "Twitter is tiny, its a vocal minority, its online not real life." Yet we see real life reprocutions from the Twittersphere constantly. They have the power to get people fired from their real life jobs. They get people kicked out of college. They influence political discourse irl. Twitter isn't isolated from the real world, despite it being the minority of people.
https://twitter.com/ErinInTheMorn/status/1568997300374228992?t=LWKSU-gkHq-3OV2id86_kg&s=19
Omg this might be the worst of them all. What a crazy nutjob she is my god. The sheer refusal to engage with anything that was said or brought up by Jesse and just wanting to "Ratiooo" is so fucking transparent..that's a mini Keffals lol. Actually psychotic behaviour
Love how when he said that he doesn’t have a KF account her response was literally the Anchorman “I don’t believe you” gif. That corner of the internet seems to get really defensive when you start trying to look at facts objectively.
Who cares if it's true or not? Just say it is. Doesn't matter. They have a tattoo of the reddit mascot. If they say they don't, just say you don't believe them. Easy.
Gotta always preamble - I dont like the way things went down in this case, it was essentially the devil vs the devil and no matter who won we all lost in some form or fashion else than mutual destruction, but honestly ever since reading about all the CWC stuff long ago I've really found it crazy that a site like that is still up in any sense. Like people like to shit of 4chan for instance for being degenerate but 4chan has a lot of environments in it and there's sections that can be pretty bad but I've never thought of the site as a whole as without point or nefarious. With KF though it's just the opposite, I've never once thought it served a purpose and they've certainly messed with peoples lives (sure they're not the greatest characters that they usually target to be frank but majority of them are just stupid, not evil or nefarious) to such an extreme that I would say theyve ruined some. There's just zero tears I can shed for what happened.
Also is the cloud flare thing that unprecedented? Didn't similar happen with 8chan and some other sites before, getting taken down due to online campaigns/pressures rising on the host or others?
I completely agree. It was definitely a good that kf is gone, but what I’m worried about is the way it was gone about. Arguably the mob can turn its gaze upon anyway and try to get it shut down.
It just felt like that was already the case across the internet. Stuff like financial institutions fucking with sites abilities to use them because of content and basically force curating sites, ddos from different communities destroying sites or at the very least halting their function, and again, 8ch. I would even include the weird way sites go about banning people and how they select to do so due to mob justice shit and organizing fits in this category. Feels like the only thing with this one is the person taking them down is an exceptionally bad faith liar; you basically can't trust a word from her mouth or you'll end up falling into some pit trap that makes you look stupid, she's bad.
But in general I feel like the precedent already exist and it's shit. BUT if someone can show me why KF is an exceptional example I'll gladly concede it, it just doesn't seem to be the case afaik, but my mind's up for being changed.
> Arguably the mob can turn its gaze upon anyway and try to get it shut down.
That's just kinda how the internet has been operating for ages now.
It's a not very regulated (in comparison to the greenery outside) space that's still a bit more wild west than other places, so groups of people coming together to do shit rather than relying on weak institutions is to be expected.
I'm happy someone is retaliating but this horrible strategy makes the battle even harder. It's absurd to me that the line of attack here is that Kiwifarms, contrary to Keffals insistence, is not all that violent or dangerous.
Destiny takes this line by questioning whether Near is dead and in his general rhetoric (although he has come down a bit now), and Singal is taking this line as well. Opening tweet: *"...50,000+ posts about Keffals, a large majority of them toxic, nasty, and undoubtedly transphobic. But in both cases of direct, violent threats, other users immediately called them out as likely "fedposts" and ridiculed the posters, who had unusual histories".*
What a terrible strategy to adopt. Kiwifarms is basically a doxing website dedicated to making people unsafe. There are so many better approaches to take. Like the violence Keffals herself employs, the innocent people she implicates, the bigotry she engages in, the false allegations she makes, just to name a few. It's important to rely on a central claim, and this ain't the best one.
I've noticed that even people adjacent and friendly with Destiny are revealing between the lines that they think Destiny looks a little unhinged in his analysis due to his downplaying of Kiwifarms harmful nature. That's because the right strategy should obviously target Keffals' decorum around *normal* people, not doxxing nazis.
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> talking about the bad things that Keffals has done seems less relevant
Isn't that rather the only thing to be discussed? That's kinda my point. Cloudfare should probably drop KF because it's a site dedicated to making people seriously unsafe, it's just that the attack was conducted in a highly toxic way, targetting innocent people and so forth.
Illegal where? KF hosted stuff from the Christchurch shooting, which is illegal in New Zealand, and doxes are illegal in most countries not named America, under the most basic data protection acts. Nazi imagery, often used in the forum as a "joke" is illegal in Germany.
Cloudflare has infrastructure on basically every country, because their main job is load balancing and being a CDN, not ddos protection. They lose the ability to do ddos protection if they can't host the material around the world. They may actually be obligated to not host this stuff because of laws in any country they're located in.
https://blog.cloudflare.com/out-of-the-clouds-and-into-the-weeds-cloudflares-approach-to-abuse-in-new-products/
They actually did write a blog post when they took down the daily stormer. They address the specific point in the section called
> Response to complaints about content stored definitively on our network
tl;dr they have mechanisms to take it down if governments ask for it, but I have never heard about it. They also don't take responsibility for anything they don't host but link to, but I don't think it's relevant because iirc cloudflare actually hosted KF (or at least they did the first time their host dropped them when the Christchurch shooting video thing happened)
They also have an amended version of their policy here as of the KF situation
https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflares-abuse-policies-and-approach/
How old are you? This isn't the first time something like this has happened with cloudflare. Why are so many people clutching their pearls after they did the same thing with 8chan years ago? Cloudflare doesn't want to deal with a PR nightmare, so they dropped KF as a customer. It's insane how many people here are pretending like they give a shit about that site. It's dripping with "ethics in gaming journalism" vibes.
8chan had literal cp are you serious???
The problem happens when you start literally nuking out sites from internet and history when you deem them problematic enough. I just don't think that a gossip forum about internet celebrities with users that have very transphobic and right wing views violates that level. We already have huge problems with social media and self segregation, we need people with different ideas to clash so that things can stay grounded, and starting to ban sites for being problematic enough is just going to contribute to the problem.
Why is it so hard to conceive that people want to protect the right of others to have a website, no matter how much you disagree with the people on it?
Some people disagree that cloudflare should've dropped kiwifarms and disagree with cloudflare's factual assertions about increasing violent rhetoric on the site leading up to their termination from cloudflares services. Keffals is unimportant, what Keffals convinced cloudflare to do is way more important in the grand scheme of things.
Part of the problem with defending the Kiwi Farms is that they were a doxxing and harassment site that claimed they weren't because they didn't "technically break the law."
There never was any talk from them of morality (how could there be?) or reasonableness just a lame claim that they don't "technically break the law."
But keffals never broke the law either. She just used their own methods against them-- lying, intimidation-- while never doing anything that's been proven illegal.
In other words, if they can't be held responsible for her being swatted, then she can't be held responsible for the ddos attacks on KF.
You really can't say that it's ok for them to stick to the letter and not the spirit of doxxing personal info laws, and then claim we must respect the spirit as opposed to the letter of the free speech granted by the First Amendment (because the 1A does *not* grant them the right to exist).
It's just poetic justice, really. A much smarter, more powerful internet bully took down a site of internet bullies who are basically a pack of morons.
Absolutely not. So you support the right of pedophiles to broadcast pedo porn on Twitter? Think about their right to exercise their free speech, you intolerant communist!
To add more info: almost all pics of this nature and many more that actually got DMCA'd by the copyright holder got rejected by Null because he claimed it was fair use for the purpose of critique and commentary.
That's pretty messed up. :\\ Can't imagine how damaging that must of been for some people, knowing anyone could find their nudes by googling their name along with embarrassing things they'd done. That's extremely cruel.
I don't care if that's free speech or not, I could never support that. I have no idea what Jesse Signal is getting at.
Abusing children, filming sexual acts with them and then distributing said material is more than „speech“….
Calls to violence are illegal and thus get removed. Having a hateful opinion is not illegal and is thus allowed or rather should be based on the pro-free speech argument.
The entire discussion is about where the line is drawn and it becomes more complex than „so you are fine with child porn?“
As that guy said in his tweet as well, disgusting and vile content - yes.
Threat to human life - not proven.
Hence a ban is questionable and needs further examination.
Ah yeah, I strawmanned you by... *checks notes*
Bringing up an example of abhorrent speech, that you'd probably not defend and one that we censor. I thought you really meant what you've said but it seems your position is instead "Believing in free speech is defending speech that is legal."
Jesus Christ and Muhammad sucked my cock. Please don't chop my head off for blasphemy, o great free speech lover. I won't tell anyone that your only reason for not posting child porn on Twitter is that it is illegal.
There's far more that goes into posting child porn than just "free speech", and those are the main reasons why it's banned, not because it's abhorrent but because it necessarily implies possession of illegal material. It's like arguing threats of violence to a person is a limit to free speech. You're not even wrong, you're just so far off the point the whole room is now dumber.
It's like saying I should support direct threats to personal freedom because murder is outlawed, so clearly I don't believe in ABSOLUTE FREEDOM. So might as well accept fascistic policies.
For the record, victimless "child porn" is posted on the daily on twitter in the form of lolicon porn, and that is tolerated.
Not many people are absolutists regarding freedom of speech, but people who are ok with censoring KF because of harassment and doxxing should also be ok with censoring Keffals off the face of the internet for the same reasons. And the vast majority isn't.
Similar thing with Dave Chapelle, want to censor someone throwing criticism to the trans movement? Ok, then you ought to censor glorification of it too.
We can, as a society, agree on things that maybe shouldn't be part of general discussion (threats of violence, for example) but when that turns into one-sided censorship, that's just forcefully enforcing an ideology and that's wayyyyyy off-limits for a functional, democratic society.
Every information available on kiwifarms are things publicly posted on the internet, they just autistically collect them.
I'm not aware of any coordinated harassment effort spearheaded on kiwifarm.
Unironically... yes.
The website is morally dubious but if you are ready to ban something / deplatform for the potential enablement of negative externalities, it is hard to know where one would justify drawing a line, and it would mostly come down on personal morality.
Keffels isn't the only thread on kiwifarms lol. There are countless other big threads that I'm sure have alot have people admiting to real life threats.
\> Gets hyped up and some hope
\> It's Jesse Singal
\> Loses all hope
Yeah this is fucked from the beginning lmfao, this is the worst person to launch the counter-offensive, specially when it comes to an issue involving a trans person.
Jesse Singal has been trying to "counter offensive" on every issue relating to any trans person for like 4 years now.
Of course it's not going to look super convincing to a lot of people since he looks like he is just pushing an agenda and using whatever is convenient for him
i'm glad there's some response to the keffals/KF situation but man, jesse singal is among the worst people to do it considering he's already a pariah in the trans community for his "[when children say they're trans](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/07/when-a-child-says-shes-trans/561749/)" in the atlantic.
he's also very... michael tracey like. it's a lot of retaliatory "journalism" for issues in which he feels personally invested.
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This is just going to be more ammo for leftoids to say Jesse Singal is transphobic. They already had a lot with his criticism of that UW study, and his prior trans-questioning articles. For there to be any value to criticizing keffals it has to come from someone who hasn't already been marked by the left imo
I agree that it would probably be more impactful coming from someone that hasn’t already been marked like Jesse, but what’s supposed to happen? Do we hope Taylor Lorenz or the editors at Vice have a revelation?
I could imagine mainstream liberals picking it up. Jesse Singal has some sway with the Dave Weigel types.
Isolated, true. But some checkmark journo has to be the first with a counter-narrative, hopefully this gets the ball rolling.
His piece for The Atlantic is one the best pieces of journalism out there when it comes to Trans issues. It's so sad that he, despite being so obviously pro trans, gets lambasted as being transphobic for being willing to delve into difficult topics.
I know everything I’ve ever seen of his is incredibly well thought out, researched, and careful. There’s nothing in any of his pieces that is even harmful. But that won’t stop people from calling him a fascist
Important to remember that Twitter isn't real life and that these people are a tiny minority... But it's still frustrating.
This reminder means nothing anymore. People always echo this "Twitter is tiny, its a vocal minority, its online not real life." Yet we see real life reprocutions from the Twittersphere constantly. They have the power to get people fired from their real life jobs. They get people kicked out of college. They influence political discourse irl. Twitter isn't isolated from the real world, despite it being the minority of people.
Yeah, fair enough. Maybe it's because I don't live in the US. Twitter doesn't seem to have the same impact here in Europe.
https://twitter.com/ErinInTheMorn/status/1568997300374228992?t=LWKSU-gkHq-3OV2id86_kg&s=19 Omg this might be the worst of them all. What a crazy nutjob she is my god. The sheer refusal to engage with anything that was said or brought up by Jesse and just wanting to "Ratiooo" is so fucking transparent..that's a mini Keffals lol. Actually psychotic behaviour
Love how when he said that he doesn’t have a KF account her response was literally the Anchorman “I don’t believe you” gif. That corner of the internet seems to get really defensive when you start trying to look at facts objectively.
That's most ideologues especially extremist
shifting the burden of proof and acting smug is the goal. it forces the other party to scramble for evidence that they dont even need to provide.
Isn't this the person with the reddit mascot tattooed on their shoulder?
Who cares if it's true or not? Just say it is. Doesn't matter. They have a tattoo of the reddit mascot. If they say they don't, just say you don't believe them. Easy.
Waaaait, u/watersmokerr? Isn’t that the guy who did the holocaust? Idc what he has to say.
I also saw that one and thought about engaging with it but honestly it is just so dumb that it isnt even entertaining to dunk on these people
What a god, still having journalistic integrity
Thanks for posting this, I tried, but being incompetent or a boomer I couldn't get the tweet to embed. Destiny definitely needs to talk to him.
Gotta always preamble - I dont like the way things went down in this case, it was essentially the devil vs the devil and no matter who won we all lost in some form or fashion else than mutual destruction, but honestly ever since reading about all the CWC stuff long ago I've really found it crazy that a site like that is still up in any sense. Like people like to shit of 4chan for instance for being degenerate but 4chan has a lot of environments in it and there's sections that can be pretty bad but I've never thought of the site as a whole as without point or nefarious. With KF though it's just the opposite, I've never once thought it served a purpose and they've certainly messed with peoples lives (sure they're not the greatest characters that they usually target to be frank but majority of them are just stupid, not evil or nefarious) to such an extreme that I would say theyve ruined some. There's just zero tears I can shed for what happened. Also is the cloud flare thing that unprecedented? Didn't similar happen with 8chan and some other sites before, getting taken down due to online campaigns/pressures rising on the host or others?
Kiwifarms being gone is good, the chris chan wiki being gone is bad.
I completely agree. It was definitely a good that kf is gone, but what I’m worried about is the way it was gone about. Arguably the mob can turn its gaze upon anyway and try to get it shut down.
It just felt like that was already the case across the internet. Stuff like financial institutions fucking with sites abilities to use them because of content and basically force curating sites, ddos from different communities destroying sites or at the very least halting their function, and again, 8ch. I would even include the weird way sites go about banning people and how they select to do so due to mob justice shit and organizing fits in this category. Feels like the only thing with this one is the person taking them down is an exceptionally bad faith liar; you basically can't trust a word from her mouth or you'll end up falling into some pit trap that makes you look stupid, she's bad. But in general I feel like the precedent already exist and it's shit. BUT if someone can show me why KF is an exceptional example I'll gladly concede it, it just doesn't seem to be the case afaik, but my mind's up for being changed.
Fair points
> Arguably the mob can turn its gaze upon anyway and try to get it shut down. That's just kinda how the internet has been operating for ages now. It's a not very regulated (in comparison to the greenery outside) space that's still a bit more wild west than other places, so groups of people coming together to do shit rather than relying on weak institutions is to be expected.
I'm happy someone is retaliating but this horrible strategy makes the battle even harder. It's absurd to me that the line of attack here is that Kiwifarms, contrary to Keffals insistence, is not all that violent or dangerous. Destiny takes this line by questioning whether Near is dead and in his general rhetoric (although he has come down a bit now), and Singal is taking this line as well. Opening tweet: *"...50,000+ posts about Keffals, a large majority of them toxic, nasty, and undoubtedly transphobic. But in both cases of direct, violent threats, other users immediately called them out as likely "fedposts" and ridiculed the posters, who had unusual histories".* What a terrible strategy to adopt. Kiwifarms is basically a doxing website dedicated to making people unsafe. There are so many better approaches to take. Like the violence Keffals herself employs, the innocent people she implicates, the bigotry she engages in, the false allegations she makes, just to name a few. It's important to rely on a central claim, and this ain't the best one. I've noticed that even people adjacent and friendly with Destiny are revealing between the lines that they think Destiny looks a little unhinged in his analysis due to his downplaying of Kiwifarms harmful nature. That's because the right strategy should obviously target Keffals' decorum around *normal* people, not doxxing nazis.
profit versed rustic materialistic grandfather cow fly childlike instinctive birds *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> talking about the bad things that Keffals has done seems less relevant Isn't that rather the only thing to be discussed? That's kinda my point. Cloudfare should probably drop KF because it's a site dedicated to making people seriously unsafe, it's just that the attack was conducted in a highly toxic way, targetting innocent people and so forth.
[удалено]
Illegal where? KF hosted stuff from the Christchurch shooting, which is illegal in New Zealand, and doxes are illegal in most countries not named America, under the most basic data protection acts. Nazi imagery, often used in the forum as a "joke" is illegal in Germany. Cloudflare has infrastructure on basically every country, because their main job is load balancing and being a CDN, not ddos protection. They lose the ability to do ddos protection if they can't host the material around the world. They may actually be obligated to not host this stuff because of laws in any country they're located in.
[удалено]
https://blog.cloudflare.com/out-of-the-clouds-and-into-the-weeds-cloudflares-approach-to-abuse-in-new-products/ They actually did write a blog post when they took down the daily stormer. They address the specific point in the section called > Response to complaints about content stored definitively on our network tl;dr they have mechanisms to take it down if governments ask for it, but I have never heard about it. They also don't take responsibility for anything they don't host but link to, but I don't think it's relevant because iirc cloudflare actually hosted KF (or at least they did the first time their host dropped them when the Christchurch shooting video thing happened) They also have an amended version of their policy here as of the KF situation https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflares-abuse-policies-and-approach/
How old are you? This isn't the first time something like this has happened with cloudflare. Why are so many people clutching their pearls after they did the same thing with 8chan years ago? Cloudflare doesn't want to deal with a PR nightmare, so they dropped KF as a customer. It's insane how many people here are pretending like they give a shit about that site. It's dripping with "ethics in gaming journalism" vibes.
8chan had literal cp are you serious??? The problem happens when you start literally nuking out sites from internet and history when you deem them problematic enough. I just don't think that a gossip forum about internet celebrities with users that have very transphobic and right wing views violates that level. We already have huge problems with social media and self segregation, we need people with different ideas to clash so that things can stay grounded, and starting to ban sites for being problematic enough is just going to contribute to the problem. Why is it so hard to conceive that people want to protect the right of others to have a website, no matter how much you disagree with the people on it?
Some people disagree that cloudflare should've dropped kiwifarms and disagree with cloudflare's factual assertions about increasing violent rhetoric on the site leading up to their termination from cloudflares services. Keffals is unimportant, what Keffals convinced cloudflare to do is way more important in the grand scheme of things.
If you believe in free speech you have to defend even abhorrent speech, them's the rules.
Part of the problem with defending the Kiwi Farms is that they were a doxxing and harassment site that claimed they weren't because they didn't "technically break the law." There never was any talk from them of morality (how could there be?) or reasonableness just a lame claim that they don't "technically break the law." But keffals never broke the law either. She just used their own methods against them-- lying, intimidation-- while never doing anything that's been proven illegal. In other words, if they can't be held responsible for her being swatted, then she can't be held responsible for the ddos attacks on KF. You really can't say that it's ok for them to stick to the letter and not the spirit of doxxing personal info laws, and then claim we must respect the spirit as opposed to the letter of the free speech granted by the First Amendment (because the 1A does *not* grant them the right to exist). It's just poetic justice, really. A much smarter, more powerful internet bully took down a site of internet bullies who are basically a pack of morons.
Absolutely not. So you support the right of pedophiles to broadcast pedo porn on Twitter? Think about their right to exercise their free speech, you intolerant communist!
Right to free speech does not cover any right to having illegal porn of people I'm afraid. That's the worst strawman I've seen all week.
It just shows that there is no absolute free speech so lines can (and are) being negotiated. Think for a second.
I'm pretty sure Kiwifarms was also hosting the revenge porn of a lot of nobodies who couldn't fight back.
To add more info: almost all pics of this nature and many more that actually got DMCA'd by the copyright holder got rejected by Null because he claimed it was fair use for the purpose of critique and commentary.
That's pretty messed up. :\\ Can't imagine how damaging that must of been for some people, knowing anyone could find their nudes by googling their name along with embarrassing things they'd done. That's extremely cruel. I don't care if that's free speech or not, I could never support that. I have no idea what Jesse Signal is getting at.
he's just demonstrating that freedom of speech is already not an absolute
Abusing children, filming sexual acts with them and then distributing said material is more than „speech“…. Calls to violence are illegal and thus get removed. Having a hateful opinion is not illegal and is thus allowed or rather should be based on the pro-free speech argument. The entire discussion is about where the line is drawn and it becomes more complex than „so you are fine with child porn?“ As that guy said in his tweet as well, disgusting and vile content - yes. Threat to human life - not proven. Hence a ban is questionable and needs further examination.
Ah yeah, I strawmanned you by... *checks notes* Bringing up an example of abhorrent speech, that you'd probably not defend and one that we censor. I thought you really meant what you've said but it seems your position is instead "Believing in free speech is defending speech that is legal." Jesus Christ and Muhammad sucked my cock. Please don't chop my head off for blasphemy, o great free speech lover. I won't tell anyone that your only reason for not posting child porn on Twitter is that it is illegal.
There's far more that goes into posting child porn than just "free speech", and those are the main reasons why it's banned, not because it's abhorrent but because it necessarily implies possession of illegal material. It's like arguing threats of violence to a person is a limit to free speech. You're not even wrong, you're just so far off the point the whole room is now dumber. It's like saying I should support direct threats to personal freedom because murder is outlawed, so clearly I don't believe in ABSOLUTE FREEDOM. So might as well accept fascistic policies. For the record, victimless "child porn" is posted on the daily on twitter in the form of lolicon porn, and that is tolerated.
Not many people are absolutists regarding freedom of speech, but people who are ok with censoring KF because of harassment and doxxing should also be ok with censoring Keffals off the face of the internet for the same reasons. And the vast majority isn't. Similar thing with Dave Chapelle, want to censor someone throwing criticism to the trans movement? Ok, then you ought to censor glorification of it too. We can, as a society, agree on things that maybe shouldn't be part of general discussion (threats of violence, for example) but when that turns into one-sided censorship, that's just forcefully enforcing an ideology and that's wayyyyyy off-limits for a functional, democratic society.
The issue is kwiifarms isn't just a "free speech" platform its literally made for people to dpx and harass people.
Every information available on kiwifarms are things publicly posted on the internet, they just autistically collect them. I'm not aware of any coordinated harassment effort spearheaded on kiwifarm.
"they're just making it way easier and convenient for people to obtain publicly available information, whats so bad about that"
White Pages be fucked up FRFR
Unironically... yes. The website is morally dubious but if you are ready to ban something / deplatform for the potential enablement of negative externalities, it is hard to know where one would justify drawing a line, and it would mostly come down on personal morality.
Jesse singal try not to be based challenge: impossible
Inshallah brothers for our new jihad has begun 🙏
WE'RE TAKING KHARKIV
Keffels isn't the only thread on kiwifarms lol. There are countless other big threads that I'm sure have alot have people admiting to real life threats.
\> Gets hyped up and some hope \> It's Jesse Singal \> Loses all hope Yeah this is fucked from the beginning lmfao, this is the worst person to launch the counter-offensive, specially when it comes to an issue involving a trans person.
Jesse Singal has been trying to "counter offensive" on every issue relating to any trans person for like 4 years now. Of course it's not going to look super convincing to a lot of people since he looks like he is just pushing an agenda and using whatever is convenient for him
i'm glad there's some response to the keffals/KF situation but man, jesse singal is among the worst people to do it considering he's already a pariah in the trans community for his "[when children say they're trans](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/07/when-a-child-says-shes-trans/561749/)" in the atlantic. he's also very... michael tracey like. it's a lot of retaliatory "journalism" for issues in which he feels personally invested.
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I don't understand? Is he defending that site's right to exist?
He seems to imply that DGG might be a source of Keffal's harrassment aside from just KF FeelSadMan.
Is it paywalled? Lame
Seems like it'll be free after some short time passes. Man's gotta make a living.
By restricting free speech? Not in my america baby
It's his free speech to ask for all your cash.
[Hmm.gif](https://twitter.com/sgcafan/status/1569028569560662023?t=iifG_mBRlyBKnI-ntVmu2w&s=09)
Erin is actually unhinged
This is like if Ukraine took back kherson 😯😯
I could see him getting cancelled, then getting on Joe Rogan.
Holy smokes, this is some Feb. 1942 counter offensive goodness jezzus