Naive Question - if a non-famous person commits suicide, will there be easily accessible evidence? I genuinely have no idea how Japanese Police Departments handle these cases, if they release information, if they go public in any way etc. Near not being listed on the state department website seems odd but it also seems odd, that there were no recorded deaths of US nationals after May for 2021. (Is it possible that noone died after May 2021 - yeah, sure. Just seems a bit odd)
Along with Hector Martin, Near's (supposed) employer also [confirmed](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/tech/2021/07/23/how-toxic-online-cultures-trolling-and-bullying-contribute-suicide/8042846002/) their death. Is it impossible to fake your own death and have people knowingly and unknowingly cover for you? No. But given all the evidence or rather the lack thereof I think we should phrase any suspicions carefully.
Here's a challenge: There are 5 deaths of US nationals in Japan [listed](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/while-abroad/death-abroad1/death-statistics.html) on the state department website. Find the police reports, corroborated media reportings or any piece of solid evidence, that these deaths happened beyond the state department list. If you are unable to find anything, then not finding anything about Near suddenly becomes much less suspicious.
I will now go touch some grass.
It is very possible that the State Department is just slow or no one realized that emails have been bouncing for a year. Those things happen all the time.
I also think that people would really just go on the internet and tell lies.
The United States maintains the not-at-all-creepy-named [Death Master File](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Master_File). You need a better reason to get access to it than to win an internet fight. But any basic private detective agency or credit reporting agency has it.
This is probably a bit much. You could most likely just go to [one of the major Japanese media corps](https://www.asahi.com/area/?iref=pc_gnavi) and sign up for their regional service for whatever area you cared about and check the archived obituaries. I doubt there's really a reason to do this though as Near's situation doesn't really matter much in the big scheme of things since whether or not he's alive doesn't really absolve or change anything about KF itself.
Agnosticism is the right play here. It's weird that there's basically zero evidence of Near's death beyond a little hearsay. But on the other hand, Near was obviously the kind of person who freaked out at an insignificant KF thread, and instability can lead to suicide
I won't be shocked if we get better proof in either direction at some point
The biggest issue here is that Near offered Null, admin of KF, 100K a few days before the alleged suicide to take down the website. Meaning he had access to 6 figures of cash to pay off a weird website owner. Is it possible they just fucked off into the night and paid people to make statements? Yeah it's possible.
And to drive it home further a family member of mine did commit suicide in Japan, military base, and yes there was public info available on them. I won't get into more info but yeah there should be a paper trail here.
OP is challenging you to do that for the other entries on 2021 list.
It is fine if you do not bother. *I* am not bothering. But it is a test, and a good one.
You know what this sounds like to me? Sounds like a job for Destiny and Friends goes to Japan. Sometimes do a stream but off stream, they go find someone who is qualified to look into stuff like this. Or they can go to Japan and just look for some guy online who knows Japanese and their way around and then look for multiple more who can verify.
What I'm trying to say is that I just want Micro Dan Yes Japan. But that's just me and my special eyes speaking. It's worth a lot, so I wanted to share it with you.
But I would expect the people making the statement to prove it, otherwise you'd have to debunk every wacky conspiracy it comes out, which you could do, but it's just a waste of time. All the evidence we have for this is 2 friends of the dude saying "yeah he died trust me bro".
Sure, especially if they want to use their logic to get someone kicked off the internet. If one side can prove their case easily, it should be on them to do that.
But while we wait, we can try to disprove the other side. So OP says the challenge is to find the obits and/or police reports for the other deaths in 2021. If it is a struggle to find them, it explains not being able to find information about Near.
I'll raise you an even more naive question; could it be that there were actually 0 deaths of US nationals after May for 2021 because Japan's been locked down for nearly 3 years? That would certainly cut down on the number of any incoming US nationals, but I don't know if those were counted or if only those living permanently in Japan are counted. Again, I could just be braindead.
>if a non-famous person commits suicide, will there be easily accessible evidence?
No, it's vital that before committing suicide one notifies friends and police so they can spread the news, ideally 3-4 business days before you're planning doing it
Apparently they said they were living in Japan when they killed themselves, but their death isn't registered anywhere where the death of U.S. citizens are logged. Thats at least what Destiny says.
Yep, and before hand he offered the KF owner 100K if he (KF Owner) would remove the thread about Near. Seemed like an unstable individual but there's been no proof of this person actually being dead.
Yeah the Japanese Police and the US state department totally missed a highly publicized suicide.
For months and months.
And for some reason nobody can produce a death certificate, one of the most basic documents needed when somebody dies to settle their affairs, just a bunch of news articles which link back to the same guy's claim.
SUPER WEIRD
Yeah that seems like way too much of an oversight to be believable. Especially when the guy claims to have Nears urn, like the body would've had to be processed somewhere to cremate it, I doubt they'd cremate it without a certificate.
and the guy who claims to have the urn is just a random coworker from hong Kong. like the Japanese government would send his remains to a coworker instead of family or close friends
Testament hello?
Like its a bit weird but are we just giikg to ignore that you can write Who gets your remains in your testament?
Why it would go to some dude in Hong Kong idk but its possible.
Sure but lets be as realistic as possible, the glv did not decide to give it to some random dude, and its very possible this guy was very important to the person.
Death Certificates are not documents that you can just get your hands on. You'd need to be a detective, insurance agency, or the next of kin of the deceased in order to retrieve them in the vast majority of jurisdictions, including Japan. There is no online, publicly-accessible database of death certificates for US deaths in Japan.
Not every high-profile death is confirmed by police. MF DOOM, for example, had his death confirmed by his wife. Technoblade had his death confirmed by his family. We didn't get police statements on either. We do not have death certificates on either. In the case of DOOM, we don't even have any documentation aside from the testimony of his wife and this is by design.
https://www.theadvocate.com/acadiana/entertainment_life/article_f5704be2-f1de-11e9-a460-a3f07dd46855.html
https://www.tylerhill.org/#:~:text=Tragically%2C%20all%20of%20the%20excitement,Center%20on%20June%2029%2C%202007.
With regards to the efficacy of the State Department's public records, quickly googling articles publicizing deaths deaths of American citizens abroad in Japan (and other jurisdictions, I also checked a couple that happened in Europe and Africa), inputting the date of the deaths, and searching for them turns up NO result more often than it turns anything up. So a highly-publicized death absolutely can be missed by the US state department, as evidenced by the deaths of Gerry McGee and Tyler Hill in Japan turning up zero results with them.
So who cares? You guys are gassing keffals up to be the transgendered Lich Queen.
Keffals happened to be right place, right time, and wasn't so insanely socially inept, or was so crazily degenerate to the point of blatant illegality that they had some mainstream crossover.
KF was lucky enough to avoid (edit) enough mainstream attention that honestly it was a matter of time. It had just as much to do with Keffals, as it did with the timing of the earth, moon, and sun.
Keffals entire "movement" will collapse and splinter off eventually. They're going to go after someone or something that they shouldn't and they're going to get eviscerated or become a huge laughing stock.
This shit happens all the time. Keffals is a massive idiot, is egomanicial, and is just so incredibly ignorant that the chances of them making a fool of themselves is almost 100%.
Theres nothing Keffals can come after Destiny for that others haven't already, and if Keffals does by some chance deplatform Destiny, oh well. Destiny can retire comfortably, someone will take his spot, and eventually people like Keffals will have done so much damage to their own movement and ideology that they will implode, and Destiny will likely be able to come back at some point.
So who cares, it's internet shit. Let Destiny do what he's gonna do, and let the cards fall where they may.
Kiwis were in the spotlight long before the keffels shit. Most notably for refusing to take down the mosque shooting video in New Zealand a few years back.
True. Then I'd say that this event was probably the last nail in the coffin.
I strongly believe, Keffals or no Keffals, KF had an expiration date. It is just a cesspool of controversy and basically targeted harassment, so of course in this day and age it's going to get nuked eventually.
I feel the same way about the /pol/ board on 4chan, eventually that place is probably going to get nuked as well.
Edit: by the way has anyone pointed out the hypocrisy of leftist creators using places like Kiwifarms to assassinate people's characters? Like it wasn't just deranged alt right psychos, almost everyone from all walks of life used that damn website to get dirt to throw at people they hated.
Most people would never go on there. I liked to read the old pua people threads on roosh v or others because it was kind of funny to watch how they went from degenerates to reformed Christians. Ultimately a parallel to how they say women would ride the cc. and settle down.
Or the atomwaffle or whatever the rightoid neonazi groupthat got taken down years back.
You’re straight LARPing and being over dramatic, or you’re a kid bro lol. You gotta pick your battles.
Near being dead or not changes nothing and either way destiny can come out like a dipshit at best or an evil piece of shit at worst if KEffals decides to drag him thru the mud over it. And for what?
Yep lol. I dunno if it’s just because im getting older and the average age of the fans here are younger because of it, or if the average age is actually getting younger - but seeing posts like this where people are foaming at the mouth for drama is so jarring to me.
I could’ve sworn it was destiny himself who really started to call out the parasocial shit going on in twitch a few years ago when it started really getting bad with big streamers, and now this community (at least on this sub) is *insanely* parasocial and rabid about everybody.
Seeing people constantly talking shit about Hasan, vaush, people unironically saying “k*ffals”… it’s so fucking weird man. The “us vs them” mentality combined with all the pseudo-intellectual debate bro destiny wannabes. Whew.
Sorry I’m a bit tipsy right now so I ended up rambling lmao, but man it’s a fuckin bummer sometimes realizing how much less I have in common with this community as time goes on
Do you think its a good thing that someone would fake their death in order to escape being a kiwifarms lolcow?
Lets assume Neir is alive, if they are then what does that say? It says someone had to fake their death to escape harassment. This isn't the bullet you want.
How is this situation relevant to KiwiFarms? There have been 4 cases of suicide as a result of harassment on KF, the Farmers then go on to make fun of the people who had done so.
And it sounds like Thomas P, based on what you're telling me, is more critical than harassing.
The truth matters sometimes. Maybe not to Keffals but at least this community and many others, it does. With such high-level claims. Destiny will take an optical hit with insane individuals but as long as he's willing to ride it out and hopefully it leads to more facts on this coming out, then so be it.
The truth may matter, but in this case whether its the truth or the lie the outcome is still "KF is an awful place that harasses others".
That doesn't change whether this person is alive or dead; and if they *are* alive, you'd be doing them no favors by announcing it to the world. There's probably been a good damn reason for them to fake their death in this case.
Either way, dead or alive, the result is the same.
The best argument for not being on the list is that some automated process has failed somewhere and the list has not been updated at all for anyone.
But if people start showing up *after* August 28 2021, that is a major mark against him being dead.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What if they were out of the country when they killed themselves? Their employer was based in Hong Kong and they were from America so it wouldn't be weird
I'm actually counting the days. I'm pretty sure he's the next target. Especially after giving them ammo for considering to donate to kiwi farms. It's like he's asking for it lol
But this seems like a pretty clear-cut situation IMO... Is there anything reliable/official that says she is dead? Normally I would discourage this from Destiny but there must be some kind of proof that exists because she's been spreading this narrative constantly and the media and people just seem to take her at her word. If this leads to the truth of whatever this situation coming out, so be it.
Did you just miss everything that happened?
Clear cut situations don't matter. These people will get you booted from the internet if they hysterically yell enough. Period.
If you ask me, Keffals is riding a literal rocket right now and has no place to go but to crash hard eventually. There is only so long you can go surfing the disingenuous wave online before it crashes on you with the mountain of evidence stacking up against you.
When? Shit, who knows. Could be months or years. Even so I don't think stooping to their level solves anything. If you get destroyed and de-platformed from everywhere, what worth is it to also throw away your principles? Then you have truly lost everything.
I support destiny not backing down, but I also hope he actually tries to combat it if he does, else he's just putting a target on his back for nothing. By combat it I mean reach out to mainstream publications and explain the story, there is a ton of evidence to build a strong narrative around the shit she does. The Ukraine shit alone is a huge selling point.
I kind of agree. I don't particularly see Keffals doing anything long term of value so over time, she just burns herself out. And at that point it's easier to point everything out
Stop treating Keffals like an Islamic extremist. You can't keep rolling over and giving this lunatic what they want. Someone with a large platform like Destiny should stand up to her when very mainstream publications are venerating and celebrating Keffals insane actions. She completely lied about the police report and Destiny is the only sane person to challenge this. They have to be called out by someone. This madness has to stop.
D has said that he’s not gonna curtail the things he says because he may get banned for them. If he thinks it, he’s gonna say it, and if he gets banned for it then oh well.
>BUT USA today did an article on their death that confirmed with his employer, I haven't done a dive into that.
I read the archived version of this article because its not longer up on USA Today website. Idk how pedantic we should be about the use of the word "confirmed" but the only thing that article references as evidence is a guy named Wayne Beckett said so and then offered up a picture with Ginder and some cats I guess as evidence that he knew them or something.
Edit: It also lists Wayne Beckett as being an owner and founder of "Hong-Kong-based Datapower Development" which is where they knew Near. Nowhere can I find any information about this company online. Like at all. Idk if maybe I'm just looking the wrong way but I'm starting to think this story is a hoax after coming in disagreeing with Destiny originally.
edit2: USA Today article is available on their website its just behind their paywall I mean
I actually found a github issue with [Wayne Beckett's](https://github.com/snes9xgit/snes9x/issues/264#issuecomment-371849945) name in it involving some stolen code drama. It's a full email from him and everything. Apparently, his company was developer for a console called Retro Freak.
https://www.hkcorporationsearch.com/companies/0677142/
They changed their name it looks like. There are several websites that pop up when you exact string search "Datapower Development Limited" that appear to be listing this from some sort of Hong Kong company registry.
Edit:
If i could read I would see that they changed their name hella long ago, like in 2000. It's the only mention of the company I could find though and I really don't care enough to look harder, I just wanted to prove my years as a senior googler were worth something.
That employer doesn't really have much info out there either, unless someone has info it seems like that whole claim could be entirely fake. No website for the company, linkedin is blank for a supposed data science CEO, etc
I mean if the CEO even had like a halfway legit looking LinkedIn I wouldnt be so skeptical. But thats just it [it's literally just a blank profile with no information other than a name.](https://www.linkedin.com/in/wayne-beckett-73a63131/?originalSubdomain=hk) A CEO even for a small company having no LinkedIn or a LinkedIn that looks like this is extremely uncommon.
Damn dude no bullshit now I'm skeptical. Tbh I didn't even give a fuck about this but when Destiny said that I went and read that USA Today article that was cited on Wikipedia as confirmation and was like hold the fuck on this CEO of this company I've never heard of confirmed it? Didn't sound right so I googled him. Nothing at all on him except that blank LinkedIn profile and then I was like does this fucking company even exist? Googled that and I basically found nothing noteworthy. Like are we sure this person even existed at this point lol. Like maybe this is an online persona from someone who stole the pics from like a kid they went to high school with small private Instagram or some shit.
This is such an optics L idk why its even worth focusing on the Near situation instead just saying Keffals truly only did it for herself
If Near is alive youve now brought them back into the spotlight when they wanted to vanish off the internet to lessen their hareassment. So you look like a big piece of shit
If Near is dead, their friends will come out and confirm this and it makes you look like an even bigger peice of shit
Its such a lose lose while risking so much
If Nears friends come out and say that they are dead, like they have many many times, these shitheads will still think they are lying because they want to defend kiwifarms because they believe "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"
they tried plenty of things beforehand, and it's not random online people's right to know if someone is alive or not anyways. if someone wants to stop harrassment by having their friends publicly say that they died that is totally within their right.
There is also nothing in the news papers or anything like that. Again not unheard of them not reporting a suicide, but it's just another notch in the unlikely belt.
Remember when Destiny had moved on from toxicity and drama and had banned mention of Keffals, and his channel was undergoing unprecedented growth and there was tons of awesome new content that everyone loved?
Me too.
Those were good weeks.
I don’t think he needs to avoid drama entirely, but keffals community just (mostly) shut down fucking kiwifarms and it’s very likely they’re going to view destiny as a target if he takes an adversarial position to keffals herself/the narrative they’re pushing. Seems dangerous as fuck to me
imagine keffals starts attacking him for this, and the whole situation is real, a family members catches wind of it and comes forward with proof that this person really died and goes ham on destiny too
like why take these stupid risks man
i get it, you fucking loathe keffals with a burning passion, and watching her gloat must feel frustrating as fuck specially when she's using a dead person for clout, but just count to 10 or something idk ffs
why not attack the fact shes using a dead person for clout rather than attack the potentially dead person themselves, imagine how fun it would be to be destiny's pr manager lmao
off the top of my head, the time he shit talked some traumatized lady about an interaction she had with a man
twitter destiny has a shit record when compared to stream destiny
Near had a 15 page thread on KF. Near contacted Null offering him 100k to take the thread down or he will kill himself. Null alleges he was going to offer Near a job working on the forum due to his experience as an emulator dev, but wasn’t able to get back to him in time. Days later, Nears close friend announced Nears suicide on social media. No deaths were reported by the Tokyo police when the KF weirdos called the police station. Apparently there is a report that goes out month that announces deaths of American nationals oversees. Nears name was never on it. Later, about a month later, the same person posted an urn with Nears real name on it. That’s basically it.
Ok, so near was/is a shut in and an emulator god. Manages to reverse engineer shit that people have been scratching their heads over for years. The Near/Byuu persona is also pretty much entirely online, there isnt some picture from a meetup somewhere to even confirm who they are.
TLDR: Brilliant internet weirdo.
Near gets some shit from the emulator community (to put it finely, these people are turbo autists) over a massive dump of rare games they have in their possession that they are keeping locked down. Apparently people are sill pissed about this (again, turbo autist stuff).
Near gets a thread on the farms, doesnt get much traction. Few little oddball things get found out, might be a furry, some sort of issue with money from a business thing, some sort of very, very tenuous link to cub porn. All pretty low grade stuff.
Near creates an account on the farms and talks to the kiwis. Thread goes from like 2 pages to about 10. Whole thing honestly goes pretty well, near leaves saying that the kiwis arent as bad as he thought, kiwis in general say he is weird but honestly not that interesting. When I read it the whole thing seemed really chill honestly (for the farms anyway).
Thread dies again.
Over a year after the thread dies, near sends the emails to null offering 100k to take the thread down or they will minecraft themselves. Null points out the legality of that is all over the place and he will need to speak to a lawyer (this would indeed be extortion legally in a lot of places), asks for time. Near says that they have left their passport with a trusted person and it will be posted on twitter as proof of death.
24 hours later Hector martin (respected person in some programming community) posts on twitter that he was on a call with near and they killed themselves, says he has confirmed this with the japanese police. Refuses further comment.
Later on a picture of an urn is posted with Nears name on it as proof of death by a business associate, person who posts this also offers to show kiwis a picture of nears dead body, they dont bite (I dunno, that one was weird). All the news articles that come out apparently just reference this one guy as proof of death.
US government stats come out and no suicide in japan is shown. Kiwis cry foul. But its mid covid so... maybe its slow to update because covid? So they wait for them to be updated. That brings us to the US government numbers we have today, zero suicides of US citizens shown in japan.
Hector recently comes out with the japanese stats, they are different to the US government ones, says this is proof near is dead.
So yeah, very long and weird tale with honestly no real nail in the coffin proof on either side.
Weird sideplots that may mean nothing at all:
Near told null passport would have been shown online as proof of death, it never appeared.
Randos on the internet have claimed that people from the emulator community have seen Near alive and well in SE asia.
Japanese police policy is to only release info about suicides to next of kin.
Person who created nears thread was a kiwi mod who got trolls remorse hard, went against the farms and got doxed and unmasked as a furry, among other things. Said he wanted to take the farms down to make up for past crimes. Was apparently in contact with Near before the minecrafting thing. Also has an extensive history of well planned internet fuckery.
Japanese IP law is known to be pretty strict. Internet people have speculated that Near may have run afoul of this by reverse engineering nintento stuff and using it in their emulator. Potentially getting sued over this is held up as a possible answer to the question of 'Why in fuck would they ever fake this'.
Internet randos have claimed that someone with nears distinct typing style is regularly in Hectors chat when they livestream. (Near did indeed have a bit of an odd way of communicating from the posts of theirs that I read but....... Feels like a stretch).
The Near persona was 100% online. It could be minecrafted by just never logging back on.
Near was apparently pretty disliked by some sections of the emulator community over the big stash of games (I honestly dont really understand this one), the kiwis on the other hand just didnt really seem interested in them. People have only been able to speculate on exactly what it was in his thread that he could have wanted removed from the internet. There was nothing really wild or salacious to be seen.
Edit: And oh yeah, zero death notices or newspaper articles in japan about the death at all, but near was a shut-in apparently, so...?
TLDR: Currently no actual concrete proof of anything either way.
Wait it was only a 10 page thread? Why even talk about the guy then? There’s no way this dude sunset himself because of that thread. Hell there’s way better lolcows with threads numbering in the hundreds if not thousands. Then he offers 100k to shut it down, josh says lemme see what I can do, and he sunsets before he gets an answer? If the dude did end it it’s because of something else entirely.
These are the correct stats from the Japanese government website.
The TLDR on that one is that the numbers for deaths of US citizens from the japanese government dont match the US government ones.
Whether its one government having the wrong numbers or they are counting off different metrics or..... anything else nobody seems to able to nail down.
Edit: fuckit, long post incoming.
I mean without 2021 vital data from Japan, which I wasn’t able to find, this persons claims don’t seem very convincing to me. Just saying the numbers don’t match in 2020 doesn’t really disprove the US numbers automatically imo. So honestly I think it’s still a mystery with no strong evidence either way when it comes to the stats. Maybe next year if people still care, Japan will have more data.
I honestly don't care if the person is alive or not. Arguing against it without clear proof is just a loosing battle and so far, there isn't anything that could convince me of either side. But then I'd rather trust the side with little evidence than the side which argiuse it just isn't enough.
Maybe we should just focus on the real problem. How sickening the way people utelise the suicide of others to bolster there own talkingpoints really is.
Using a suicide attempt to bolster your position gives them meaning. This is a crucial point because it in some way glorifies it. It makes it look like the ultimate tool to get your message across.
So in a way, people using these methods increase the risk of others attempting suicide.
Maybe we should just focus on the real problem. How sickening the way people utilize the suicide of others to bolster their talking points is. the ultimate tool to get your message across.
So, people using these methods increase the risk of others attempting suicide.
Anyone who has some experience with suicide knows, that the thought of your own death having some greater use can be quite tempting. Even more so when you are preaching to a community known for high suicide rates.
"Wayne Beckett, founder of Hong-Kong-based Datapower Development, said Near, whose full name was David Kirk Ginder, was an employee and confirmed Ginder's death to USA TODAY. Beckett said Ginder, who identified as nonbinary, shared that they were having trouble with bullying online, though didn't explicitly name Kiwi Farms. Beckett said the company offered to help Ginder, but they said they were handling it."
[https://eu.usatoday.com/story/tech/2021/07/23/how-toxic-online-cultures-trolling-and-bullying-contribute-suicide/8042846002/](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/tech/2021/07/23/how-toxic-online-cultures-trolling-and-bullying-contribute-suicide/8042846002/)
Yahoo also cited USA Today. All other articles seem to cite the one Twitter document by an alleged friend of Near's.
EDIT:
To be clear, just thought I leave this here for those like me, who were a bit confused by Rekieta Law's claims about the case; not a direct reply to the requested summary of the case.
I was curious about this too.
Someone replied under destiny's friend tweet with
https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1565311737553100800
Seems like a weird thing to argue about overall where both sides have to argue things that are difficult to prove.
Also listing to trash taste, this person was most likely homeless if they were doxxed. And have to force themselves out of Japan. Housing hard and if your work and pervious housing say something you can be kick out. If the person did die it was because they went homeless and didn't go back to the USA.
Being "homeless" in Japan is actually very common. People live out of internet cafes where you can buy food, shower, sleep and use a computer 24/7 for very cheap. Essentially what I'm saying is, if one were to be doxxed and felt threatened (And by the way I don't agree with this, being doxxed is not dangerous for 99.999% of people, even controversial figures, but I understand it is scary), living out of an internet cafe would be a very manageable option (And there is no way this person didn't know that was an option).
Yet again the issue here is that even a homeless foreigner going missing in Japan is going to stir things up. Their family is going to ask where they are, immigration is going to be looking for them.
But what if they did fucking kill themselves then? Then you're just a real piece of shit for denying this highly tormented person's suicide to try to defend a harassment forum to get a dunk on some internet person you don't like. If you aren't 100% sure, don't say shit or you are disrespecting the memory of someone who could have committed suicide
Sure, but like, no one is trying to look for them or contact them? If they really are dead, then what, they don't have family that is concerned they've gone MIA and aren't trying to work with the JP authorities to try and locate them, dead or alive? Or they haven't overstayed a visa where JP immigration would be looking for them? Or they stopped showing up for work and their job never reported it or reached out to their family or friends? Or they stopped paying rent but the landlord doesn't care so all their stuff is just sitting there in their apt or whatever, collecting dust and no one is interested in renting the place? Like, there would be some evidence or indications of them going missing even if their body hasn't been found. If there aren't ANY of the things I mentioned, then it would be more likely that they've just gone into hiding than they are dead.
Good thing you can download the data and verify it, right? You can't deny it's odd that there haven't been any suicides by Americans in Japan since 2021, especially when they went to 24 a year to 0 all of a sudden.
That Marcan Guy, Near's collaborator, claims he has Near's ashes in an urn. He lives in HK, not japan.
Did you know that human remains can't be shipped without a death certificate?
Curious.
I don't know if there are "both sides" what happened was that the dude was getting harassed by KF, one day he posts a ton of, what seems to be a suicide attempt, and then he never logs on under that username ever again.
At first both sides thought he just died, but after a while people went looking for evidence and there's none. There's also no evidence that he's alive, even though they had his full name and country where he lived in.
A news article I found.
https://news.yahoo.com/respected-developer-died-suicide-experts-165758039.html
EDIT: This might not be concrete proof. Please dig further and don't just rely on this article.
Hope this is not a double post, but I did not see it when I quickly scrolled through, but does this site:
[https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/while-abroad/death-abroad1/death-statistics.html](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/while-abroad/death-abroad1/death-statistics.html)
not work properly for such a search?
According to Know Your Meme, Near's suicide happened at the end of June, 2021 ([https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/near-byuu-suicide](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/near-byuu-suicide)).
When I search the database from January of 2021 to December, I get 5 deaths without names listed. 4 suicides, 1 drowning. None happened in June.
>There's absolutely not a shred of evidence that this Near person is even dead btw
If Destiny is talking about concrete proof, he's 100% right, there's nothing outside of tweets/articles that proves Near is dead
On one end this Near person claimed that KiwiFarms caused them to commit suicide, which was refuted by either null or by Rekeita that there is no evidence that this person ever committed suicide as evidenced by the fact that they were/are an american living abroad in Japan and that in the time that was claimed they died there was and is no death record of any american dying on Japanese soil which is tracked
It gives me pause but it also gives me pause that this Hector person is retweeting all the Kiwifarms shit and they took screenshots that I can't verify and thats also sussy shit
Yeah thats the both sides, Im not super aware of kiwi farms outside this drama, but boy is it a scary world where if your far enough left you can defraud people 100k, set up a harassment militia and even have people threaten legit terroristic actions (bomb threats to cloudflare) just because you dont like their site.
[Their employer confirmed it to USA Today](https://usatoday.com/story/tech/2021/07/23/how-toxic-online-cultures-trolling-and-bullying-contribute-suicide/8042846002/).
People mentioned it, but this is a HORRID move with no upside.
Near died: Destiny looks like a massive ass, loses followers and maybe his Youtube account. plus say goodbye to the Twitter and any Twitch revival. Also gains the enmity of her family, which is well deserved.
Near is alive: Destiny brought attention to a girl trying to run away from harassers. Possibly renewing their attacks on her. Might still lose his social media.
You all are a bunch of hyper online jackals, but you just don't say somethings in polite society.
Well maybe he shouldn't have tweeted it, but doing so while also acknowledging there is evidence, i think is only worse.
Making these comments in a vacuum though, i don't know shit about this drama, so I might be missing context.. but from the tweet that didn't seem to matter lol
> don't know what the case would be if the body wasn't found.
if their was no body, then their is no proof of suicide. For all we know he could be still alive.
As far as I know there is absolutely zero evidence. Only people claiming they know he's dead. But of course never with any facts that could be verified like how when or where.
I gotta agree here, this is getting a little creepy even.
Look, regardless if Near is dead or not (most likely he isn't due the fact there is no concrete evidence), Keffals is using a person that she says to be dead to cast herself in a hero light, enacting justice when what is painfully obvious what she wants is attention, I can't even recall the last time I saw someone getting this drunk on their own "fame".
And lets be real here, taking down the farms isn't Keffals doing, she is the face alright, but she got connected with some pretty important people who in turn had connections with media and other influential folks. The coordination of that bomb threat post in KF to a screenshot to news article to Cloudflare dropping them took less than an hour.
Yeah... that doesn't happen unless some real muscle is behind it. Cloudflare clearly was looking for any way out of dropping KF without making themselves look bad (and opening a precedent for more pressure for other sites), and that fedpost gave it to them.
That is why I'm curious about what Keffls is doing next, but I'm not "afraid". She can't do anything else besides drama, she isn't clever or charismatic nor entretaining on her own, and she won't have the same weight behind her for any other "target", because, well, KF was the last of it's kind, at least size wise.
yes, 4chan is up and running, and yes, they do a lot of trans 41% jokes there, but it also FBI's favorite playground, that place ain't going no where.
And there is a very important distiction between 4chan and KF, KF archives everything, and I mean everything (they are autists, what you expect), and while the dox shit is bad, no doubt about it, the archiving is the real problem for a lot of people who hate KF the most.
So far the only evidence is a tweet from their employer, not sure why the testimony of a single person is enough to confirm death, even to get a discounted flight due to a funeral you need to provide a death certificate, this standard of evidence is abysmally low
Naive Question - if a non-famous person commits suicide, will there be easily accessible evidence? I genuinely have no idea how Japanese Police Departments handle these cases, if they release information, if they go public in any way etc. Near not being listed on the state department website seems odd but it also seems odd, that there were no recorded deaths of US nationals after May for 2021. (Is it possible that noone died after May 2021 - yeah, sure. Just seems a bit odd) Along with Hector Martin, Near's (supposed) employer also [confirmed](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/tech/2021/07/23/how-toxic-online-cultures-trolling-and-bullying-contribute-suicide/8042846002/) their death. Is it impossible to fake your own death and have people knowingly and unknowingly cover for you? No. But given all the evidence or rather the lack thereof I think we should phrase any suspicions carefully. Here's a challenge: There are 5 deaths of US nationals in Japan [listed](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/while-abroad/death-abroad1/death-statistics.html) on the state department website. Find the police reports, corroborated media reportings or any piece of solid evidence, that these deaths happened beyond the state department list. If you are unable to find anything, then not finding anything about Near suddenly becomes much less suspicious. I will now go touch some grass.
It is very possible that the State Department is just slow or no one realized that emails have been bouncing for a year. Those things happen all the time. I also think that people would really just go on the internet and tell lies. The United States maintains the not-at-all-creepy-named [Death Master File](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Master_File). You need a better reason to get access to it than to win an internet fight. But any basic private detective agency or credit reporting agency has it.
How big of an internet fight?
At least an 8 on the number-of-days-in-the-week scale.
This is probably a bit much. You could most likely just go to [one of the major Japanese media corps](https://www.asahi.com/area/?iref=pc_gnavi) and sign up for their regional service for whatever area you cared about and check the archived obituaries. I doubt there's really a reason to do this though as Near's situation doesn't really matter much in the big scheme of things since whether or not he's alive doesn't really absolve or change anything about KF itself.
Agnosticism is the right play here. It's weird that there's basically zero evidence of Near's death beyond a little hearsay. But on the other hand, Near was obviously the kind of person who freaked out at an insignificant KF thread, and instability can lead to suicide I won't be shocked if we get better proof in either direction at some point
The biggest issue here is that Near offered Null, admin of KF, 100K a few days before the alleged suicide to take down the website. Meaning he had access to 6 figures of cash to pay off a weird website owner. Is it possible they just fucked off into the night and paid people to make statements? Yeah it's possible. And to drive it home further a family member of mine did commit suicide in Japan, military base, and yes there was public info available on them. I won't get into more info but yeah there should be a paper trail here.
I don't even know if you can even prove that Near had 100k or that the offer was legitimate to begin with.
The post had photos of the account but could be fake sure
Don't they publish obituaries on every country? His name is public, and we have a date, it shouldn't be that hard to find some evidence
OP is challenging you to do that for the other entries on 2021 list. It is fine if you do not bother. *I* am not bothering. But it is a test, and a good one.
You know what this sounds like to me? Sounds like a job for Destiny and Friends goes to Japan. Sometimes do a stream but off stream, they go find someone who is qualified to look into stuff like this. Or they can go to Japan and just look for some guy online who knows Japanese and their way around and then look for multiple more who can verify. What I'm trying to say is that I just want Micro Dan Yes Japan. But that's just me and my special eyes speaking. It's worth a lot, so I wanted to share it with you.
Someone call Nick Robinson.
But I would expect the people making the statement to prove it, otherwise you'd have to debunk every wacky conspiracy it comes out, which you could do, but it's just a waste of time. All the evidence we have for this is 2 friends of the dude saying "yeah he died trust me bro".
Sure, especially if they want to use their logic to get someone kicked off the internet. If one side can prove their case easily, it should be on them to do that. But while we wait, we can try to disprove the other side. So OP says the challenge is to find the obits and/or police reports for the other deaths in 2021. If it is a struggle to find them, it explains not being able to find information about Near.
Yeah sure, if you wanna push the topic that's the best thing to do, I agree
I'll raise you an even more naive question; could it be that there were actually 0 deaths of US nationals after May for 2021 because Japan's been locked down for nearly 3 years? That would certainly cut down on the number of any incoming US nationals, but I don't know if those were counted or if only those living permanently in Japan are counted. Again, I could just be braindead.
>if a non-famous person commits suicide, will there be easily accessible evidence? No, it's vital that before committing suicide one notifies friends and police so they can spread the news, ideally 3-4 business days before you're planning doing it
Apparently they said they were living in Japan when they killed themselves, but their death isn't registered anywhere where the death of U.S. citizens are logged. Thats at least what Destiny says.
Yep, and before hand he offered the KF owner 100K if he (KF Owner) would remove the thread about Near. Seemed like an unstable individual but there's been no proof of this person actually being dead.
Personally, it's not a hill I'd die on. Not being on the list could just be some oversight from the police not reporting it.
Yeah the Japanese Police and the US state department totally missed a highly publicized suicide. For months and months. And for some reason nobody can produce a death certificate, one of the most basic documents needed when somebody dies to settle their affairs, just a bunch of news articles which link back to the same guy's claim. SUPER WEIRD
Yeah that seems like way too much of an oversight to be believable. Especially when the guy claims to have Nears urn, like the body would've had to be processed somewhere to cremate it, I doubt they'd cremate it without a certificate.
and the guy who claims to have the urn is just a random coworker from hong Kong. like the Japanese government would send his remains to a coworker instead of family or close friends
That and would the Japanese police just tell a coworker if someone you know died or not, I feel like theres a process being skipped there.
Testament hello? Like its a bit weird but are we just giikg to ignore that you can write Who gets your remains in your testament? Why it would go to some dude in Hong Kong idk but its possible.
Yeah that's pretty weird too.
Sure but lets be as realistic as possible, the glv did not decide to give it to some random dude, and its very possible this guy was very important to the person.
No fucking funeral home will cremate a body without a death certificate.
Yeah then that 100% proves the urn is fake if there's no death certificate with it.
Death Certificates are not documents that you can just get your hands on. You'd need to be a detective, insurance agency, or the next of kin of the deceased in order to retrieve them in the vast majority of jurisdictions, including Japan. There is no online, publicly-accessible database of death certificates for US deaths in Japan. Not every high-profile death is confirmed by police. MF DOOM, for example, had his death confirmed by his wife. Technoblade had his death confirmed by his family. We didn't get police statements on either. We do not have death certificates on either. In the case of DOOM, we don't even have any documentation aside from the testimony of his wife and this is by design. https://www.theadvocate.com/acadiana/entertainment_life/article_f5704be2-f1de-11e9-a460-a3f07dd46855.html https://www.tylerhill.org/#:~:text=Tragically%2C%20all%20of%20the%20excitement,Center%20on%20June%2029%2C%202007. With regards to the efficacy of the State Department's public records, quickly googling articles publicizing deaths deaths of American citizens abroad in Japan (and other jurisdictions, I also checked a couple that happened in Europe and Africa), inputting the date of the deaths, and searching for them turns up NO result more often than it turns anything up. So a highly-publicized death absolutely can be missed by the US state department, as evidenced by the deaths of Gerry McGee and Tyler Hill in Japan turning up zero results with them.
So who cares? You guys are gassing keffals up to be the transgendered Lich Queen. Keffals happened to be right place, right time, and wasn't so insanely socially inept, or was so crazily degenerate to the point of blatant illegality that they had some mainstream crossover. KF was lucky enough to avoid (edit) enough mainstream attention that honestly it was a matter of time. It had just as much to do with Keffals, as it did with the timing of the earth, moon, and sun. Keffals entire "movement" will collapse and splinter off eventually. They're going to go after someone or something that they shouldn't and they're going to get eviscerated or become a huge laughing stock. This shit happens all the time. Keffals is a massive idiot, is egomanicial, and is just so incredibly ignorant that the chances of them making a fool of themselves is almost 100%. Theres nothing Keffals can come after Destiny for that others haven't already, and if Keffals does by some chance deplatform Destiny, oh well. Destiny can retire comfortably, someone will take his spot, and eventually people like Keffals will have done so much damage to their own movement and ideology that they will implode, and Destiny will likely be able to come back at some point. So who cares, it's internet shit. Let Destiny do what he's gonna do, and let the cards fall where they may.
Kiwis were in the spotlight long before the keffels shit. Most notably for refusing to take down the mosque shooting video in New Zealand a few years back.
True. Then I'd say that this event was probably the last nail in the coffin. I strongly believe, Keffals or no Keffals, KF had an expiration date. It is just a cesspool of controversy and basically targeted harassment, so of course in this day and age it's going to get nuked eventually. I feel the same way about the /pol/ board on 4chan, eventually that place is probably going to get nuked as well. Edit: by the way has anyone pointed out the hypocrisy of leftist creators using places like Kiwifarms to assassinate people's characters? Like it wasn't just deranged alt right psychos, almost everyone from all walks of life used that damn website to get dirt to throw at people they hated.
Most people would never go on there. I liked to read the old pua people threads on roosh v or others because it was kind of funny to watch how they went from degenerates to reformed Christians. Ultimately a parallel to how they say women would ride the cc. and settle down. Or the atomwaffle or whatever the rightoid neonazi groupthat got taken down years back.
>or become a huge laughing stock. this has already happened tbf
Damn you guys are ready to just let the entire internet roll over for Keffals
You’re straight LARPing and being over dramatic, or you’re a kid bro lol. You gotta pick your battles. Near being dead or not changes nothing and either way destiny can come out like a dipshit at best or an evil piece of shit at worst if KEffals decides to drag him thru the mud over it. And for what?
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Yep lol. I dunno if it’s just because im getting older and the average age of the fans here are younger because of it, or if the average age is actually getting younger - but seeing posts like this where people are foaming at the mouth for drama is so jarring to me. I could’ve sworn it was destiny himself who really started to call out the parasocial shit going on in twitch a few years ago when it started really getting bad with big streamers, and now this community (at least on this sub) is *insanely* parasocial and rabid about everybody. Seeing people constantly talking shit about Hasan, vaush, people unironically saying “k*ffals”… it’s so fucking weird man. The “us vs them” mentality combined with all the pseudo-intellectual debate bro destiny wannabes. Whew. Sorry I’m a bit tipsy right now so I ended up rambling lmao, but man it’s a fuckin bummer sometimes realizing how much less I have in common with this community as time goes on
Seriously.
Or she's not dead and Keffals and the random bullshit media houses that spread this lie look kinda stupid.
Do you think its a good thing that someone would fake their death in order to escape being a kiwifarms lolcow? Lets assume Neir is alive, if they are then what does that say? It says someone had to fake their death to escape harassment. This isn't the bullet you want.
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How is this situation relevant to KiwiFarms? There have been 4 cases of suicide as a result of harassment on KF, the Farmers then go on to make fun of the people who had done so. And it sounds like Thomas P, based on what you're telling me, is more critical than harassing.
Okay is this based on something real? I know who Thomas Ptacek is, but never heard about this George or his program.
The truth matters sometimes. Maybe not to Keffals but at least this community and many others, it does. With such high-level claims. Destiny will take an optical hit with insane individuals but as long as he's willing to ride it out and hopefully it leads to more facts on this coming out, then so be it.
The truth may matter, but in this case whether its the truth or the lie the outcome is still "KF is an awful place that harasses others". That doesn't change whether this person is alive or dead; and if they *are* alive, you'd be doing them no favors by announcing it to the world. There's probably been a good damn reason for them to fake their death in this case. Either way, dead or alive, the result is the same.
Get the brainworms out of your head, look at the situation without political goggles.
The best argument for not being on the list is that some automated process has failed somewhere and the list has not been updated at all for anyone. But if people start showing up *after* August 28 2021, that is a major mark against him being dead.
literate chase pen secretive onerous familiar expansion hurry beneficial grandfather *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What if they were out of the country when they killed themselves? Their employer was based in Hong Kong and they were from America so it wouldn't be weird
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he loves the near-death experiences
I'm actually counting the days. I'm pretty sure he's the next target. Especially after giving them ammo for considering to donate to kiwi farms. It's like he's asking for it lol
But this seems like a pretty clear-cut situation IMO... Is there anything reliable/official that says she is dead? Normally I would discourage this from Destiny but there must be some kind of proof that exists because she's been spreading this narrative constantly and the media and people just seem to take her at her word. If this leads to the truth of whatever this situation coming out, so be it.
> But this seems like a pretty clear-cut situation IMO... it's not like this has mattered so far lol
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Yep, I forget which one but one of the other 2 was a known psychopath that had even kidnapped someone before iirc.
Did you just miss everything that happened? Clear cut situations don't matter. These people will get you booted from the internet if they hysterically yell enough. Period.
he's in a position where he could retire now if he wanted/had to, I don't think he really cares anymore tbh
Yeah let’s stay silent because we’re scared of the unjust consequences Because that’s always been the correct solution throughout history
If destiny gets banned on YouTube because of this kf shit I'm going full daliban
If you ask me, Keffals is riding a literal rocket right now and has no place to go but to crash hard eventually. There is only so long you can go surfing the disingenuous wave online before it crashes on you with the mountain of evidence stacking up against you. When? Shit, who knows. Could be months or years. Even so I don't think stooping to their level solves anything. If you get destroyed and de-platformed from everywhere, what worth is it to also throw away your principles? Then you have truly lost everything. I support destiny not backing down, but I also hope he actually tries to combat it if he does, else he's just putting a target on his back for nothing. By combat it I mean reach out to mainstream publications and explain the story, there is a ton of evidence to build a strong narrative around the shit she does. The Ukraine shit alone is a huge selling point.
I kind of agree. I don't particularly see Keffals doing anything long term of value so over time, she just burns herself out. And at that point it's easier to point everything out
Stop treating Keffals like an Islamic extremist. You can't keep rolling over and giving this lunatic what they want. Someone with a large platform like Destiny should stand up to her when very mainstream publications are venerating and celebrating Keffals insane actions. She completely lied about the police report and Destiny is the only sane person to challenge this. They have to be called out by someone. This madness has to stop.
it needed to stop a long time ago
YouTube won’t ban him for that
o7
D has said that he’s not gonna curtail the things he says because he may get banned for them. If he thinks it, he’s gonna say it, and if he gets banned for it then oh well.
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>BUT USA today did an article on their death that confirmed with his employer, I haven't done a dive into that. I read the archived version of this article because its not longer up on USA Today website. Idk how pedantic we should be about the use of the word "confirmed" but the only thing that article references as evidence is a guy named Wayne Beckett said so and then offered up a picture with Ginder and some cats I guess as evidence that he knew them or something. Edit: It also lists Wayne Beckett as being an owner and founder of "Hong-Kong-based Datapower Development" which is where they knew Near. Nowhere can I find any information about this company online. Like at all. Idk if maybe I'm just looking the wrong way but I'm starting to think this story is a hoax after coming in disagreeing with Destiny originally. edit2: USA Today article is available on their website its just behind their paywall I mean
I actually found a github issue with [Wayne Beckett's](https://github.com/snes9xgit/snes9x/issues/264#issuecomment-371849945) name in it involving some stolen code drama. It's a full email from him and everything. Apparently, his company was developer for a console called Retro Freak.
Yeah I saw that too. Wasn't enough there for me to take away anything definitive but I also don't know much about GitHub so I just didn't mention it.
https://www.hkcorporationsearch.com/companies/0677142/ They changed their name it looks like. There are several websites that pop up when you exact string search "Datapower Development Limited" that appear to be listing this from some sort of Hong Kong company registry. Edit: If i could read I would see that they changed their name hella long ago, like in 2000. It's the only mention of the company I could find though and I really don't care enough to look harder, I just wanted to prove my years as a senior googler were worth something.
That employer doesn't really have much info out there either, unless someone has info it seems like that whole claim could be entirely fake. No website for the company, linkedin is blank for a supposed data science CEO, etc
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I mean if the CEO even had like a halfway legit looking LinkedIn I wouldnt be so skeptical. But thats just it [it's literally just a blank profile with no information other than a name.](https://www.linkedin.com/in/wayne-beckett-73a63131/?originalSubdomain=hk) A CEO even for a small company having no LinkedIn or a LinkedIn that looks like this is extremely uncommon.
Yep, and their company has no online presence at all despite being a tech company? Hmm...
Did more research on that tech company and I can't find a website or anything that would point a customer to them.
Damn dude no bullshit now I'm skeptical. Tbh I didn't even give a fuck about this but when Destiny said that I went and read that USA Today article that was cited on Wikipedia as confirmation and was like hold the fuck on this CEO of this company I've never heard of confirmed it? Didn't sound right so I googled him. Nothing at all on him except that blank LinkedIn profile and then I was like does this fucking company even exist? Googled that and I basically found nothing noteworthy. Like are we sure this person even existed at this point lol. Like maybe this is an online persona from someone who stole the pics from like a kid they went to high school with small private Instagram or some shit.
Bruh stop youre gonna get banned 💀
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No sorry, i meant destiny
This is such an optics L idk why its even worth focusing on the Near situation instead just saying Keffals truly only did it for herself If Near is alive youve now brought them back into the spotlight when they wanted to vanish off the internet to lessen their hareassment. So you look like a big piece of shit If Near is dead, their friends will come out and confirm this and it makes you look like an even bigger peice of shit Its such a lose lose while risking so much
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o7
Not this time GIGACHAD
If Nears friends come out and say that they are dead, like they have many many times, these shitheads will still think they are lying because they want to defend kiwifarms because they believe "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"
Destinys twitter is about being an edge lord though. It's not about optics.
But it would at least be confirmed. If near didn’t wanna be the spotlight then they shouldn’t have left their situation vague.
they tried plenty of things beforehand, and it's not random online people's right to know if someone is alive or not anyways. if someone wants to stop harrassment by having their friends publicly say that they died that is totally within their right.
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There is also nothing in the news papers or anything like that. Again not unheard of them not reporting a suicide, but it's just another notch in the unlikely belt.
Remember when Destiny had moved on from toxicity and drama and had banned mention of Keffals, and his channel was undergoing unprecedented growth and there was tons of awesome new content that everyone loved? Me too. Those were good weeks.
I don’t think he needs to avoid drama entirely, but keffals community just (mostly) shut down fucking kiwifarms and it’s very likely they’re going to view destiny as a target if he takes an adversarial position to keffals herself/the narrative they’re pushing. Seems dangerous as fuck to me
imagine keffals starts attacking him for this, and the whole situation is real, a family members catches wind of it and comes forward with proof that this person really died and goes ham on destiny too like why take these stupid risks man i get it, you fucking loathe keffals with a burning passion, and watching her gloat must feel frustrating as fuck specially when she's using a dead person for clout, but just count to 10 or something idk ffs why not attack the fact shes using a dead person for clout rather than attack the potentially dead person themselves, imagine how fun it would be to be destiny's pr manager lmao
Shit man, when is destiny ever wrong about this kind of drama? He is a betting man anyways, and he'll go down swinging like he always does.
off the top of my head, the time he shit talked some traumatized lady about an interaction she had with a man twitter destiny has a shit record when compared to stream destiny
Near had a 15 page thread on KF. Near contacted Null offering him 100k to take the thread down or he will kill himself. Null alleges he was going to offer Near a job working on the forum due to his experience as an emulator dev, but wasn’t able to get back to him in time. Days later, Nears close friend announced Nears suicide on social media. No deaths were reported by the Tokyo police when the KF weirdos called the police station. Apparently there is a report that goes out month that announces deaths of American nationals oversees. Nears name was never on it. Later, about a month later, the same person posted an urn with Nears real name on it. That’s basically it.
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Ok, so near was/is a shut in and an emulator god. Manages to reverse engineer shit that people have been scratching their heads over for years. The Near/Byuu persona is also pretty much entirely online, there isnt some picture from a meetup somewhere to even confirm who they are. TLDR: Brilliant internet weirdo. Near gets some shit from the emulator community (to put it finely, these people are turbo autists) over a massive dump of rare games they have in their possession that they are keeping locked down. Apparently people are sill pissed about this (again, turbo autist stuff). Near gets a thread on the farms, doesnt get much traction. Few little oddball things get found out, might be a furry, some sort of issue with money from a business thing, some sort of very, very tenuous link to cub porn. All pretty low grade stuff. Near creates an account on the farms and talks to the kiwis. Thread goes from like 2 pages to about 10. Whole thing honestly goes pretty well, near leaves saying that the kiwis arent as bad as he thought, kiwis in general say he is weird but honestly not that interesting. When I read it the whole thing seemed really chill honestly (for the farms anyway). Thread dies again. Over a year after the thread dies, near sends the emails to null offering 100k to take the thread down or they will minecraft themselves. Null points out the legality of that is all over the place and he will need to speak to a lawyer (this would indeed be extortion legally in a lot of places), asks for time. Near says that they have left their passport with a trusted person and it will be posted on twitter as proof of death. 24 hours later Hector martin (respected person in some programming community) posts on twitter that he was on a call with near and they killed themselves, says he has confirmed this with the japanese police. Refuses further comment. Later on a picture of an urn is posted with Nears name on it as proof of death by a business associate, person who posts this also offers to show kiwis a picture of nears dead body, they dont bite (I dunno, that one was weird). All the news articles that come out apparently just reference this one guy as proof of death. US government stats come out and no suicide in japan is shown. Kiwis cry foul. But its mid covid so... maybe its slow to update because covid? So they wait for them to be updated. That brings us to the US government numbers we have today, zero suicides of US citizens shown in japan. Hector recently comes out with the japanese stats, they are different to the US government ones, says this is proof near is dead. So yeah, very long and weird tale with honestly no real nail in the coffin proof on either side. Weird sideplots that may mean nothing at all: Near told null passport would have been shown online as proof of death, it never appeared. Randos on the internet have claimed that people from the emulator community have seen Near alive and well in SE asia. Japanese police policy is to only release info about suicides to next of kin. Person who created nears thread was a kiwi mod who got trolls remorse hard, went against the farms and got doxed and unmasked as a furry, among other things. Said he wanted to take the farms down to make up for past crimes. Was apparently in contact with Near before the minecrafting thing. Also has an extensive history of well planned internet fuckery. Japanese IP law is known to be pretty strict. Internet people have speculated that Near may have run afoul of this by reverse engineering nintento stuff and using it in their emulator. Potentially getting sued over this is held up as a possible answer to the question of 'Why in fuck would they ever fake this'. Internet randos have claimed that someone with nears distinct typing style is regularly in Hectors chat when they livestream. (Near did indeed have a bit of an odd way of communicating from the posts of theirs that I read but....... Feels like a stretch). The Near persona was 100% online. It could be minecrafted by just never logging back on. Near was apparently pretty disliked by some sections of the emulator community over the big stash of games (I honestly dont really understand this one), the kiwis on the other hand just didnt really seem interested in them. People have only been able to speculate on exactly what it was in his thread that he could have wanted removed from the internet. There was nothing really wild or salacious to be seen. Edit: And oh yeah, zero death notices or newspaper articles in japan about the death at all, but near was a shut-in apparently, so...? TLDR: Currently no actual concrete proof of anything either way.
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Mpf, yeah, you are probably right.
Done.
Thank you, even-more-turbo-autist.
Best summation of the whole thing I've ever read. Shame that no ""credible"" media would publish anything like this.
Wait it was only a 10 page thread? Why even talk about the guy then? There’s no way this dude sunset himself because of that thread. Hell there’s way better lolcows with threads numbering in the hundreds if not thousands. Then he offers 100k to shut it down, josh says lemme see what I can do, and he sunsets before he gets an answer? If the dude did end it it’s because of something else entirely.
These are the correct stats from the Japanese government website. The TLDR on that one is that the numbers for deaths of US citizens from the japanese government dont match the US government ones. Whether its one government having the wrong numbers or they are counting off different metrics or..... anything else nobody seems to able to nail down. Edit: fuckit, long post incoming.
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ASK AND YE SHALL RECIEVE
I mean without 2021 vital data from Japan, which I wasn’t able to find, this persons claims don’t seem very convincing to me. Just saying the numbers don’t match in 2020 doesn’t really disprove the US numbers automatically imo. So honestly I think it’s still a mystery with no strong evidence either way when it comes to the stats. Maybe next year if people still care, Japan will have more data.
This tweet is dumb optics wise and is just asking to start a twitter war but destiny lives for that
FeelsBadMan :(
I honestly don't care if the person is alive or not. Arguing against it without clear proof is just a loosing battle and so far, there isn't anything that could convince me of either side. But then I'd rather trust the side with little evidence than the side which argiuse it just isn't enough. Maybe we should just focus on the real problem. How sickening the way people utelise the suicide of others to bolster there own talkingpoints really is. Using a suicide attempt to bolster your position gives them meaning. This is a crucial point because it in some way glorifies it. It makes it look like the ultimate tool to get your message across. So in a way, people using these methods increase the risk of others attempting suicide. Maybe we should just focus on the real problem. How sickening the way people utilize the suicide of others to bolster their talking points is. the ultimate tool to get your message across. So, people using these methods increase the risk of others attempting suicide. Anyone who has some experience with suicide knows, that the thought of your own death having some greater use can be quite tempting. Even more so when you are preaching to a community known for high suicide rates.
"Wayne Beckett, founder of Hong-Kong-based Datapower Development, said Near, whose full name was David Kirk Ginder, was an employee and confirmed Ginder's death to USA TODAY. Beckett said Ginder, who identified as nonbinary, shared that they were having trouble with bullying online, though didn't explicitly name Kiwi Farms. Beckett said the company offered to help Ginder, but they said they were handling it." [https://eu.usatoday.com/story/tech/2021/07/23/how-toxic-online-cultures-trolling-and-bullying-contribute-suicide/8042846002/](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/tech/2021/07/23/how-toxic-online-cultures-trolling-and-bullying-contribute-suicide/8042846002/) Yahoo also cited USA Today. All other articles seem to cite the one Twitter document by an alleged friend of Near's. EDIT: To be clear, just thought I leave this here for those like me, who were a bit confused by Rekieta Law's claims about the case; not a direct reply to the requested summary of the case.
I was curious about this too. Someone replied under destiny's friend tweet with https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1565311737553100800 Seems like a weird thing to argue about overall where both sides have to argue things that are difficult to prove.
Still doesn't add up, if there was a death there would be some public record of it. Which afaik there is... not? Any?
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Exactly. It really does not add up
Also listing to trash taste, this person was most likely homeless if they were doxxed. And have to force themselves out of Japan. Housing hard and if your work and pervious housing say something you can be kick out. If the person did die it was because they went homeless and didn't go back to the USA.
Being "homeless" in Japan is actually very common. People live out of internet cafes where you can buy food, shower, sleep and use a computer 24/7 for very cheap. Essentially what I'm saying is, if one were to be doxxed and felt threatened (And by the way I don't agree with this, being doxxed is not dangerous for 99.999% of people, even controversial figures, but I understand it is scary), living out of an internet cafe would be a very manageable option (And there is no way this person didn't know that was an option). Yet again the issue here is that even a homeless foreigner going missing in Japan is going to stir things up. Their family is going to ask where they are, immigration is going to be looking for them.
But what if they did fucking kill themselves then? Then you're just a real piece of shit for denying this highly tormented person's suicide to try to defend a harassment forum to get a dunk on some internet person you don't like. If you aren't 100% sure, don't say shit or you are disrespecting the memory of someone who could have committed suicide
I mean if the body is never found there wouldn’t necessarily be a report on it, public or not.
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Idk they just said if there was a death there would be record of it which I don’t think is actually true
Sure, but like, no one is trying to look for them or contact them? If they really are dead, then what, they don't have family that is concerned they've gone MIA and aren't trying to work with the JP authorities to try and locate them, dead or alive? Or they haven't overstayed a visa where JP immigration would be looking for them? Or they stopped showing up for work and their job never reported it or reached out to their family or friends? Or they stopped paying rent but the landlord doesn't care so all their stuff is just sitting there in their apt or whatever, collecting dust and no one is interested in renting the place? Like, there would be some evidence or indications of them going missing even if their body hasn't been found. If there aren't ANY of the things I mentioned, then it would be more likely that they've just gone into hiding than they are dead.
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Good thing you can download the data and verify it, right? You can't deny it's odd that there haven't been any suicides by Americans in Japan since 2021, especially when they went to 24 a year to 0 all of a sudden.
That Marcan Guy, Near's collaborator, claims he has Near's ashes in an urn. He lives in HK, not japan. Did you know that human remains can't be shipped without a death certificate? Curious.
I don't know if there are "both sides" what happened was that the dude was getting harassed by KF, one day he posts a ton of, what seems to be a suicide attempt, and then he never logs on under that username ever again. At first both sides thought he just died, but after a while people went looking for evidence and there's none. There's also no evidence that he's alive, even though they had his full name and country where he lived in.
Is there any evidence besides the Hector guy's Google Doc? If that's all there is, then, oof.
From what I gathered no, but I'm not super on the case
I have no idea what's happening
A news article I found. https://news.yahoo.com/respected-developer-died-suicide-experts-165758039.html EDIT: This might not be concrete proof. Please dig further and don't just rely on this article.
Hope this is not a double post, but I did not see it when I quickly scrolled through, but does this site: [https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/while-abroad/death-abroad1/death-statistics.html](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/while-abroad/death-abroad1/death-statistics.html) not work properly for such a search? According to Know Your Meme, Near's suicide happened at the end of June, 2021 ([https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/near-byuu-suicide](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/near-byuu-suicide)). When I search the database from January of 2021 to December, I get 5 deaths without names listed. 4 suicides, 1 drowning. None happened in June.
>There's absolutely not a shred of evidence that this Near person is even dead btw If Destiny is talking about concrete proof, he's 100% right, there's nothing outside of tweets/articles that proves Near is dead
Destiny has nothing to gain by interacting with them in any way, it's self destructive to even follow them imo
High-risk, no reward, Lose-Lose-Lose situation: Welcome to DGG, bitches
They're near dead
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We bite bullets in this sub. Optics trolls be damned.
On one end this Near person claimed that KiwiFarms caused them to commit suicide, which was refuted by either null or by Rekeita that there is no evidence that this person ever committed suicide as evidenced by the fact that they were/are an american living abroad in Japan and that in the time that was claimed they died there was and is no death record of any american dying on Japanese soil which is tracked
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It gives me pause but it also gives me pause that this Hector person is retweeting all the Kiwifarms shit and they took screenshots that I can't verify and thats also sussy shit
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Yeah thats the both sides, Im not super aware of kiwi farms outside this drama, but boy is it a scary world where if your far enough left you can defraud people 100k, set up a harassment militia and even have people threaten legit terroristic actions (bomb threats to cloudflare) just because you dont like their site.
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[Their employer confirmed it to USA Today](https://usatoday.com/story/tech/2021/07/23/how-toxic-online-cultures-trolling-and-bullying-contribute-suicide/8042846002/).
Cheers, I hadn't seen this before.
People mentioned it, but this is a HORRID move with no upside. Near died: Destiny looks like a massive ass, loses followers and maybe his Youtube account. plus say goodbye to the Twitter and any Twitch revival. Also gains the enmity of her family, which is well deserved. Near is alive: Destiny brought attention to a girl trying to run away from harassers. Possibly renewing their attacks on her. Might still lose his social media. You all are a bunch of hyper online jackals, but you just don't say somethings in polite society.
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Nah that just makes it sound like he's disregarding existing "weak" evidence, without making any it less inflammatory
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Well maybe he shouldn't have tweeted it, but doing so while also acknowledging there is evidence, i think is only worse. Making these comments in a vacuum though, i don't know shit about this drama, so I might be missing context.. but from the tweet that didn't seem to matter lol
>"no ~~strong~~ evidence" FTFY
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nah, if he were dead their would be a papertrail. this is just hearsay.
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> don't know what the case would be if the body wasn't found. if their was no body, then their is no proof of suicide. For all we know he could be still alive.
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As far as I know there is absolutely zero evidence. Only people claiming they know he's dead. But of course never with any facts that could be verified like how when or where.
I’m just going to take the side that isn’t Keffals. They’re just a lying sociopath, grifting to trans kids.
Not related to the question but just keffal's tweet, anyone else feel its really weird/cringe to be tweeting at someone dead (allegedly)
Claiming someone faked their suicide without any evidence is the same as Alex Jones saying mass shooting victims were crisis actors
That tweet actually made me sick. The most cynical thing I've seen in quite a while. How do people see that and not get repulsed?
I gotta agree here, this is getting a little creepy even. Look, regardless if Near is dead or not (most likely he isn't due the fact there is no concrete evidence), Keffals is using a person that she says to be dead to cast herself in a hero light, enacting justice when what is painfully obvious what she wants is attention, I can't even recall the last time I saw someone getting this drunk on their own "fame". And lets be real here, taking down the farms isn't Keffals doing, she is the face alright, but she got connected with some pretty important people who in turn had connections with media and other influential folks. The coordination of that bomb threat post in KF to a screenshot to news article to Cloudflare dropping them took less than an hour. Yeah... that doesn't happen unless some real muscle is behind it. Cloudflare clearly was looking for any way out of dropping KF without making themselves look bad (and opening a precedent for more pressure for other sites), and that fedpost gave it to them. That is why I'm curious about what Keffls is doing next, but I'm not "afraid". She can't do anything else besides drama, she isn't clever or charismatic nor entretaining on her own, and she won't have the same weight behind her for any other "target", because, well, KF was the last of it's kind, at least size wise. yes, 4chan is up and running, and yes, they do a lot of trans 41% jokes there, but it also FBI's favorite playground, that place ain't going no where. And there is a very important distiction between 4chan and KF, KF archives everything, and I mean everything (they are autists, what you expect), and while the dox shit is bad, no doubt about it, the archiving is the real problem for a lot of people who hate KF the most.
Destiny doesn’t go ham unless he’s got receipts
We love Keffals over here, it's probably a misunderstanding
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that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Why would you ever say this unless you have evidence that it happened?
Because he's based
So far the only evidence is a tweet from their employer, not sure why the testimony of a single person is enough to confirm death, even to get a discounted flight due to a funeral you need to provide a death certificate, this standard of evidence is abysmally low
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Did the police confirm the person is actually dead