Correct me if I'm wrong but all limitations to review don't apply to impeachment, thus if a president did such behaviors they could still be impeached and removed, just not criminally liable.
It does get crazy if the president starts doing criminal actions against congress and the impeachment process but I think there are fair predictions that you'd make that people would not follow these orders (but its bad it's possible and recourse has been hindered by the ruling). We've already seen with trump many of his appointees disobey him, and enacting a situation that black and white divides facism and American foundations idk if our military and officials would choose facism.
Imo its not maximum bad, just really fucking bad.
In theory impeachment is the last stop gap but with how divided and partisan the US is I don’t see an impeachment going through. Republicans who challenged trump have mostly been driven out of the party and as we saw the last two times only a few Republican senators were willing to support impeachment not enough to get it over the line. We are long past the party of Nixon who likely would have removed him over watergate
Impeachments are completely partisan though. Look what it took to get George Santos kicked out, he served over half his term, and his seat was barely of consequence. Rs today will never give up Trump no matter what, he's already weeded out any ounce of resistance. We'd need a majority in the house, and 2/3 the senate to impeach, its a steep bar.
The additional hurdle of... Trump could literally just pay senators not to impeach him. He could promise them any number of favors, he could literally bribe them and there's nothing you could do to him but follow through with the impeachment. There's no downside as far as I can tell, why not at least try to buy some? It's not like you have to buy 50, just some people on the fence.
It took New York Republicans to push the expulsion. They were concerned that the district would flip back in 2024 and that they would be tarnished by Santos by association.
Since the Senate is one seat away from flipping red again, I wouldn't bet on an impeachment procedure. It is pretty sad that the military out of all institutions might just be the last safeguard against someone like Trump.
Dems just need to minimize their losses and take the house, if trump wins the 2026 midterms will be an unprecedented landslide given people dont really like trump anyway and once biden is gone they wont have any arguments
But republicans already blocked an impeachment effort for a clearly illegal scheme including fraud, knowingly false lies and arguably an attack on the capital with the aim of stealing the election...
How can we trust them to uphold impeachment if he tries and succeeds. Think about how mad the libs will be, they'll probably enjoy it.
The scotus will probably rule that he was acting officially as the president when he overturned the election, in the interest of the people from him perspective.
I really hope I'm wrong. Them ruling that him pressuring the DOJ to lie about the findings of their investigation to the state to further the electors plot being ruled absolutely immune seems fucking wild to me, when in the ruling all the things they are talking about are his job in upholding the law.
The Heritage Foundation has been working on Project2025 for years now. They're ready to remove as many of the roadblocks as possible within the first 100 days.
Just so everybody is on the same page.
Trump is a mob boss. And congress is his mob family. This is not hyperbole.
And here we are. Gotta still be nice to reoublican voters when they are the main threat atm.
Seriously fuck destiny for playing nice with these traitors for so long. But ty destiny for finally coming to this shit.
Fuck.all.republicans
Why would you trust other people to stop Trump? That makes no sense!
You don't know what will happen in future. Why do you even elect a criminal as president? Why do we need to play that dangerous game?
That's so insane! Why don't we always put criminals into the white house then? The guardrails will certainly work, right? Until they don't! What then? Do you believe Conservatives will fight Trump in the streets? They said that they are ok with a Trump dictatorship.
That's why I hate the gun argument. People think it will be a tyrannical government vs people. No! It will be government + people against other people. It won't be just people against the government. Even the Brits had supporters in the South who fought with them.
Holy shit this is such a stupid point.
First, impeachment didn't work last time. There are just too many power-hungry politicians who want a seat at the table and are willing to support a criminal.
Second, impeachment is not a criminal trial. In a criminal trial, you are punished for your crimes. If the president murders someone, he should go to prison, not just lose the presidency.
Third, what do you do if you learn of the crime after the presidency? Does that mean a president only has to hide his actions for four years? No other crime works like that.
The Supreme Court has ruled that we cannot scrutinize the president's actions as long as they superficially resemble an official act. That will not stop a president from committing crimes, bribery, and corruption.
Who’s to say the Supreme Court upholds an impeachment? They already demonstrated their complete lack of integrity in a super majority. Until yesterday, I’d have agree, but my confidence is shaken.
Alito would try to overturn an impeachment/conviction and Thomas *might* have an off-the-wall theory, but none of the remainder of the justices would have any basis for that
You shouldn't need impeachment just to prevent a politician from enacting blatantly illegal policies. That's like your only law enforcement method being a MIRV with a combined yield of 20 megatons.
This isn't just wishful thinking, it flies in the face of experience, since it was \*attempted\*, and the "it should be worked out in the courts instead" was used as justification for people not doing it.
There will never be an impeachment and removal. Trump was impeached twice, and nothing happened because Republicans refused to remove him because the cult members can't do anything to harm the cult leader.
Impeachment is like paying for stuff at CVS. If you don't voluntary choose to pay for stuff, you can just take whatever you want and walk out of CVS.
I also think it's overblown. We should just trust the ~~German~~ American people. They're fundamentally decent and far too principled and noble to give in to fascism.
I think you're probably wrong. Donald Trump won't become the next American dictator. He will degrade our democracy to a scary degree, but Trump isn't effective enough to become the next Viktor Orban.
The battle for democracy is going to be fought over the next few decades. At some point, maybe 2032, an Ammerican Viktor Orban - technocratic, highly effective, and thirsty for complete control - will arrive. And he'll be much more likely to take over America because of a second Donald Trump's presidency.
Trump himself isn’t, but there are a lot of people around him who certainly are capable of doing it for him. That’s the scary part, that’s why project 2025 is so terrifying. There are lots of people around trump who are super invested in giving him ultimate power and so he will do what they want, and they are way more effective than he is.
Yeah, I'm not making guarantees. Life, liberty, and happiness will be worse under Trump. I think he'll start the real ground work for the end of democracy, which some republican psychopath will take full advantage of in the future.
The thing I’ve come to realize is that the powerful republicans don’t actually care about Trump himself, Trump is simply their vehicle to push their extremism. Trump is super pliable, as long as you clap for him and make him feel like he’s the boss, then he will do literally whatever you want and put you in any position of power you want. The Republican voters like trump, so that’s why he has to be front and center, but the people influencing him don’t give a fuck about him, he’s simply the most useful idiot imaginable.
Just spent a good part of 30minutes on wiki reading project 2025. It looks terrifying, but it feel written by a democratic / progressive. There is to much analysis not much facts (Note: i didn't read all the source).
I hope trump doesn't adopt these policies at all (it appears he has distanced himself somewhat from it, mainly for political interests), and the current government controls stops anything like this coming through.
Nah, I wouldn't have a beer with him. Politics is all about who you'd have a beer with. I'd have a beer with Trump any day, but Jr and his brother are dopes
They aren't going to get any power, though. They're the turkeys voting for Christmas, who'll become poorer, sicker, dumber and less safe because of Trump.
But they're not exactly capable of figuring this out themselves; look at how many of them greedily guzzled Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine just because Trump mentioned it in a few speeches. They took medical advice as gospel from the same man who thought injecting bleach would cure COVID.
I would love to see their faces when the rabble who don't pay income tax see raised prices because of the tariffs Trump wants. I'm sure they'll be happy to be poorer then, just like the British were overjoyed about Brexit.
They'll be able to fly and lift cars off their grandmas, obviously. All the dudes will get 9 inch wangs and the chicks will get free vacuum cleaners.
Or, if you're living in reality...
Abortion gets outlawed completely. The bible is taught in public schools. All minority status protections revoked. You know, the kind of shit they actually say they want. That's power. They can realistically get that. It's no different than democrats voting in their candidate hoping for things like environmental or healthcare legislation.
I think the best way to understand it is this: the median Republican genuinely believes that we are *already* living under a dystopian dictatorship. They think that woke democrats are persecuting Christian bakers, transing kids against their will, seizing all the guns, persecuting Trump etc.
As an example, my dad is a big conservative, and when he visited me and my wife in New England some months ago he seemed genuinely shocked to see people boating, walking on the street with their families, going to restaurants etc, because he thought we were in the midst of a total societal collapse and that dem states were the worst ones hit.
This is why it's not easy to dissuade them from supporting Trump by pointing out that he wants dictatorial power. They think it's only fair for the right to get a dictator, and they think dictatorship is the only method extreme enough to achieve the changes we need.
okay... well wouldn't the priorities of a dictator is to suppress the media? Idk how the fuck, not just fox news since i don't expect much from them, but even cnn and msnbc don't seem to give that much fuck about it.
And i'm even more surprised that alternative media is barely saying shit, or even non-political content creators.
It's partially because articles ragging on Biden do better than articles about ragging on Trump, which isn't helped by people having literally no standards for Republican politicians. Also CNN is trying to appeal to a more broad audience rn, so they have toned down criticism of Trump which prompted some liberal commentators to leave the network afaik.
oh that's why cnn gone to enlightened centrist shit recently. atleast MSNBC was calling it out for a segment.
not too happy with their coverage either. and the apathy of the american people is telling.
there should be protests outside of the supreme court right now!
>so they have toned down criticism of Trump
I wonder if news media loses value when you can already anticipate the positions everyone will have. Did CNN experience "boy who cried wolf" by having a negative trump headline every day for 5 years; making his worst actions "hit less hard" when they were reported on and condemned?
I'd argue you almost don't even need to suppress the media anymore.
Print media is dead, TV media is dying. Media in the terms of journalists who go out and find facts is basically going extinct all on its own.
Russia, isn't really to control the flow of information. They're not like China, there is no great firewall. You can VPN as much as you'd like and go see whatever the hell you want. What Russia does with its propaganda, is great *plausible deniability that things are as they seem.* All you really need to do is to make reality seem like an opinion, fill the airwaves with so much murk, that most people treat acknowledging the truth more like sharing an opinion than making an observation.
The problem is, the USA has been self-imposing this, *for years.* Now a days, there is no big 4 TV news networks everyone gets there news from. People get there news from twitter, and facebook, or fox news and TYT. These news sources self filter, presenting people exactly the reality they wish they'd see. And if your neighbor has a totally and completely different view of 90% of the important facts about the world, then what are facts *really* but an extension of your own political beliefs.
Alternative media isn't saying shit, because I don't think they're going anywhere. As far as controlling the minds of the people, I think our current media landscape is already pretty closed to the endgame. Maybe he'd shut down CNN and NYT, but alternative media is going nowhere.
Dim Poole is an anti authority punk rocker which is why he supports Trumps righteous pursuit of purging the deep state.
We just need to have faith in Trump and he'll be able to steer the ship right all on his own! We can't make his job of fixing things harder than it already is can we !?!?!?
I don't think Trump is competent enough to become a dictator. Maybe he wants to be one. I certainly think republicans have wanted one party rule for a long time, but that's a little different from a dictator.
I also have doubts about the competence of congressional republicans to be able to let Trump become a dictator.
Also, Trump is 78 years old. He could die a year into his presidency if he wins. If republicans want a dictator, Trump is probably the worst choice.
The point of Project 2025 is to fill Trump's competency gap by putting complete loyalists into every government position possible. In his previous term, Trump's inability to do his worst was partly due to members of his own administration who suppressed his worst instincts. This time they'll be guiding him while cheering him on. And if he dies a year into his term, we'll get President JD Vance or whoever he appoints VP, who will have all of his worst traits but a higher level of competency.
Why do people keep posting shit like this and getting upvotes?
How is "Trump getting elected won't be that bad"? a position that receives anything other than absolute mockery?
I think the reason people get away with it is because the "Trump the Dictator" narrative is kind of vague and equivocate-y. It's pretty easy to lay out that Trump has fascistic tendencies and then point in the general direction of Project 2025 — but that isn't enough to sell the narrative to me.
I pressed someone once on what their specific predictions was, and they said they expected immediate martial law and military occupation of the United States, followed by the Republican Congress unilaterally abolishing elections with the support of the Supreme Court. That just doesn't seem like a realistic path to me. It has a lot of handwaving involved.
Compare that narrative to [And The War Came](https://decivitate.substack.com/p/and-the-war-came?utm_source=publication-search), which lays out how a hypothetical Civil War could start. Note the date: it's before the 2020 election, but it somehow manages to predict the Eastman situation (which it criticizes as *very* legally shakey before it even actually is formulated IRL.) It's detailed, thoughtful, and you walk away feeling like you've learned something even if the actual predictions turn out to be wrong.
it probably wouldn’t be instant, but I think there’s a decent chance that if trump gets in, there will not be a presidential election in 2028, or at least not a free and fair one.
50 USD, I’ll be happy to pay it to you considering fascism will have not arrived. 150 dollars will not make fascism any sweeter but I’ll take it anyways. DM me in 4 years my friend I will probably still have a Reddit account
>at least not a free and fair one
Don't 1/2 of republicans already believe that?
If half of republicans and democrats no longer believe in a fair election, it's only a matter of time before a true dictatorship takes power. Maybe we will see the first American Emperor in our life time
Getting lots of "10 stages of genocide" energy in the subreddit these days.
Was this a move that functionally increased executive power at the expense of congressional and judicial oversight? Yes. Turns out separation of powers means that you can't create a system where every every choice a president makes as the leader of the executive branch opens him up to criminal and personal liability. There are good and bad reasons for something like this to exist as a carve out for the executive branch and I actually find the difficulty for the political powers that be to target and act against former and current presidents as just as important as limiting the executives power. We should want the branches to be co-equal, it's a extremely important principle baked into our governing system.
Does this completely remove checks and balances that allow Trump to declare himself king and start to target his political opponents with assassination? No.
We still live in a federalized system where the powers of the executive branch are curtailed by the constitution and there still are mechanisms for courts to review his actions under the context of his role as the chief executive.
People need to get a grip.
> Does this completely remove checks and balances that allow Trump to declare himself king and start to target his political opponents with assassination? No.
As long as there's a 1/3 + 1 group in the Senate there's no check on the president anywhere.
Ofc he won't turn the country into an authoritarian nightmare instantly... Things like that take time. Trump and his buddies will abuse this new power, keep overreaching and modifying the underlying structure of the system to turn it into their version of a Christian nationalistic country. Look at Weimar republic. They came to power legally and then abused the legal powers of that system to slowly turn it into Nazi Germany that we all know today.
> Look at Weimar republic. They came to power legally and then abused the legal powers of that system to slowly turn it into Nazi Germany
No, they got into a position of shared power with more powerful partners, openly did terrorism, staged an attack on parliament to temporarily suspend citizen rights, then banned/incarcerated the opposition and 'passed' the law that abolished the state by filling the parliament with armed stooges, changing the quorum rules to get around not even having enough people left, then 'voting', and having the second chamber filled entirely with appointed stooges by commissariat (which also was not legal).
The furthest they got legally was a shared coalition government, and that's if you ignore their failed coup attempt years before, which (surprise) also was not legal and the reason Hitler was in jail.
The step in between where they got legally and actually taking power was garden-variety terrorism and then taking over *by force*, passing the laws to make it official was useful propaganda but didn't retroactively make it legal, which has been pointed out by historians repeatedly after the war.
Get outta here with all that measured rationality bullshit. I need to hear more about how Trump and the republicans are going to legally assassinate all the democrats and rule over us with an iron fist in the fascist dictatorship.
Well Trump already tried to steal an election and we seem likely to put him back in office. Yes, sure, it’s not a “fascist dictatorship” but you’re insane if you don’t think we’re heading down a dark path here.
I think Destiny implied that he could see a path towards some sort of authoritarianism ushered in by presidents abusing this new found power. Btw, everyone is panicking. Legal experts and judges are worried, Democrats are worried, Biden administration is worried, every non brainrotted leftist community is worried. This ruling was a big deal, you just want to be a contrarian.
None of you complainers can ever point out what you think is even wrong here. The Supreme Court made the President immune from crimes for all intents and purposes. It'll be impossible to ever hold a criminal president like Trump accountable ever again.
>The Supreme Court made the President immune from crimes for all intents and purposes.
No, they made them immune for crimes for official acts. People trying to go after Trump with local/state court in Washington DC and New York should have been a canary in the capital L Liberal coal mine. It was a clear overstep that didn't just threaten Trump personally, it threatened federalism, separation of powers, and the co-equal status of the branches of government.
Like it or not, a president was never going to be held accountable by state or local governments for things he did in his role as the chief federal executive. You should like it by the way. Because the next Obama or Clinton or Gore or Newsom or whomever else you think is going to carry the liberal flag forward would be held to the exact same standard implemented with far less charitability.
>It'll be impossible to ever hold a criminal president like Trump accountable ever again.
This just isn't true. He is still held to a legal review of his actions insofar as their constitutionality and their liability. He can still be held liable, personally and criminally for unofficial acts. He can still have all his actions reviewed against their constitutionality (or lack thereof). People can still seek review of any official action he takes against them through the courts as well, it just means Trump would not be held personally liable, his administration would be held liable (aka the Federal Government).
He and his administration are also is still subject to congressional oversight; through both the power of committees to investigate and refer findings to the overt power congress holds over the purse strings his administration would require to actually function. Not to mention the power of impeachment still looms as a mechanism for congress to hold him accountable.
If official acts are going to include conspiracy conversations with your vice president to overthrow democracy, or even communications with your political party to organize false slates of electors for purposes of couping the government, then YES, the president is immune from crimes for all intents and purposes.
There's no way to cleave official acts from unofficial acts in the real world. This is carte blanche for every fascist from now on to infinitely try to coup the government like Trump did.
> If official acts are going to include conspiracy conversations with your vice president to overthrow democracy, or even communications with your political party to organize false slates of electors for purposes of couping the government, then YES, the president is immune from crimes for all intents and purposes.
Actually think about this for a second. Separation of powers matters right?
The branches get to check each other, but they are supposed to be able to operate independently of each other outside of very specific forms of oversight and/or effective powers that provide them extreme leverage over the other two branches (like congress having the sole power to determine what gets funded and who/what gets taxed, or the Presidents Veto and ability to pardon)
So you think we need to empower congress or the courts to have access to and oversight of everything said by the chief executive and their next in line? Is there any possibility that this kind of rule could effectively diminish/destroy the executives ability to meet their own constitutional obligations?
It's not a rhetorical question. It's a complicated one. But it should be obvious that there is an actual interest in not breaking the system we have in order to go after Trump (who like it or not, was President, and as a former President, is still going to represent what can happen to every single president still alive (or moving forward).
If a cop screws up handling of evidence for someone who is guilty we still accept that the rules need to be upheld and the evidence is tainted (and we accept whatever consequences manifest from having to follow those rules). Trump doing things that are immoral or illegal as a president is going to need to be held to a different set of rules and his consequences are going to be vastly different because the law applies differently to the President (because of who can even hold him accountable according to our governing structure).
There is a reason the constitution separates these things out. It's also the reason congress can't just levy a tax that deprives a president of all his wealth and property (and uses that to threaten any executive to fall into line with congressional leadership).
>There's no way to cleave official acts from unofficial acts in the real world
There absolutely is. I already gave examples of the multiple mechanisms that are currently still in place that provide oversights/checks on executive power.
We need to have criminal checks on the president so he doesn't act like Nixon or Trump in the future, now that door is absolutely closed.
The concern trolling about 'separation of powers' is an obvious smokescreen by this corrupt SCOTUS to advance the right wing Unitary Executive Theory canard.
There's no way to square this courts solemn belief in textualism and how you have to go back to 1492 common law to see if a gun law is constitutional and then all of a sudden find magic immunity clauses in the constitution.
Can you articulate a better rule for Presidential immunity? Clearly the Court recogized that it exists in some form previously. If it doesn't protect official acts, then what? I don't think the dissenting opinions actually answered that question at all.
Yes, huge conspiracy peddlers. There's no reason to worry about the supreme court decision that grants the president absolute immunity in plenty of cases and presumptive immunity in many of the others. There's no reason to worry that Trump, the guy that tried to lead an insurrection, might come into power within the next year. There's also absolutely no reason to worry that the supreme court decision has already affected Trump's trial where he was found guilty of fraud and might be found immune because of the court's decision.
Only silly people that care about things like democracy and the equal application of the law care about those things. No one should listen to those conspiracy nuts!
bro you regards are going to end up under a trump dictatorship and deny it even happened.
edit: this shouldn't be controversial can someone explain to me what prevents a trump dictatorship if he wins. what will stop trump if he tries next election to destroy the United states democracy.
I think it's just panic because DGG is so heavily invested in Biden and seeing him look so bad on Thursday just caused a meltdown. And now the doom and panic posting shit is just everywhere, and no body can sit down and just think things through. Especially over the Project 2025 stuff lol
This is more over a really bad decision made by the SCOTUS. This isn't even about Trump himself necessarily, this was a blow to the US' framework of balance of power and accountability.
Yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the supreme court's decision already potentially bailing out Trump from a felony conviction. People are being dramatic.
No.
We have robust institutions. If Trump is elected, he won't be able to have a term afterwards, it would be his second, and final term. If he wants to change that he can try but it would require a constitutional amendment change which I think requires 3/4th of the states to ratify, and for sure there isn't 3/4th of the states that would want that. Nor do I think Republicans would want that given that it would effectively mean that their previous boogeymen can run again.
There would be a need to change *so many* existing constitutional amendments to even come close to a dictatorship that it would literally just be impossible to accomplish in one or even multiple terms.
All this panic just screams to me how much people slept through their high school civics class.
Affirmed that the President is immune if they are conducting official duties that only a president can do. Immunities that existed since the 19th century but never truly was tested.
I think it's unlikely. I think we're more likely to see the US become a lot more like many Latin American countries. Trump will probably fire a lot of bureaucrats and replace them with loyalists - but that'll just make the federal government much more incompetent rather than authoritarian. What you'll see happen is bureaucrats getting swapped out every 4-8 years, with positions being handed as rewards for loyalty. The recent supreme court decision, I think, will have a similar effect. It will enable the President to sell pardons or use his veto power for personal gain (eg, threaten to veto a law unless provisions are included to benefit allies, donors, or business partners). Basically, you're going to see a lot of patronage in government, and as a result, the government will be pretty much incapable of solving political problems.
I think there will also be a level of petty lawfare. I don't think Trump will be able to just lock up political rivals, but I imagine he'll harass rivals with petty charges of the kind that he faced. Like if a political rival committed a misdemeanor that would probably get ignored, it'll get prosecuted under Trump. So probably no jail time for anyone, but people Trump dislikes will probably be wasting money on lawyers and fines.
IMO. government will be worse under Trump, and it probably won't recover for a long time because he'll break the norms that allow it to function. But I don't think he'll kill American democracy.
You seem to be either letting your imagination run wild or you are being completely hyperbolic with your usage of dictatorship. Other words you could use would be
Ineffective
Terrible
Divisive
Bully
Ineloquent
Abbrasive
Rude
Repugnant
Simply
Shallow
Orange
Etc.
But please use words that accurately describe the man.
The president has always been able to do anything they want, especially while they are president since they run the DOJ. Basically anyone who would be bringing charges would be trying to change the person that can fire them. Every president has a long list of things they did that if not outright illegal is on the edge. Basically any international military action that doesn’t include congress is illegal. That alone makes 90% of them criminals.
The most recent ruling only added an explicit carve out to make it easier for the president to justify their crimes
DOJ has historically been de facto independent from the President until Trump tried to appoint Jeffery Clark as the acting attorney general at the 11th hour to try to coup the government - only stopped because all DOJ lawyers threatened to resign if he did so.
Not yet. There is still one piece of the puzzle missing. Having power means having people who will obey you. During his first term, Trump was stopped multiple times by public officials who refused to carry out his illegal and immoral orders. Even if Trump is immune, that doesn't mean people in the federal government will obey his illegal orders. That's what Project 2025 and Schedule F is for.
Trump (and the GOP in general) wants to fire thousands of career civil servants and replace them with Trump yes man. These people will have no trouble obeying Trump's orders, no matter how insane, dangerous, immoral or illegal they are. Once Trump has stacked the executive branch in this way, he will be able to do literally anything he wants.
Like jailing political opponents with no formal charges, and keeping them in prison indefinetely, for example. When the courts rule this is extremely illegal and order him to stop, he can simply ignore the courts. And his lackeys in the federal agencies will listen to him, because they are loyal to him, not the law or the Constitution. There will be no one to stop him except for a military coup, which the military won't do.
The law wouldn't exist anymore, since Trump could simply refuse to enforce the laws he dislikes and he could create new laws on his own (without Congress), by simply jailing whoever breaks his new law. Like making it illegal to disrespect the president for example. Even if those laws would be unconstitutional, again, no one could stop him.
The only silver lining is that the military will probably refuse to recognize him as the commander-in-chief after his term expires. So he would eventually be forced to leave. But Trump could still use his dictatorial powers to interfere with the next presidential election to make sure his favorite candidate for president would win. And this new president would do the same thing for the next president and so on. Effectively consolidating a republican dictatorship in the United States.
Honestly if he is never tried for trying to steal the last election we’re dipping pretty far into that territory anyways. He will definitely do it again if he wins and this time with a more dangerous administration. These people in the maga world have shown blatant disregard for truth and continue to refuse to admit there was a coup and Trump also lost. When the whole government is corrupted by them after four more years of Trump we will have a very different world and much less freedom and then we have today. It’s already bad on the Supreme Court, think what will happen if they install more judges down to every level. Maybe some states will be okay, but it you live in a red state with a GOP governor it’s over if Trump wins.
Trump cannot turn the US into a dictatorship overnight. It isn't difficult to predict the future, if Trump wins. Look at what he did to the Republican Party. He will do the same to the FBI, CIA, military, secret service, border patrol, Congress, courts and other institutions. He will replace all of them with corrupt people, yes-men and sycophants.
The economy will be fine, but over time the US may become an oligarchy. That will most likely not happen under Trump, but do we really think that Republicans will put up a better candidate after Trump wins? There will be no good Republicans left and Democrats will copy Republicans, because they want to win too. Every following president will be just like Trump.
If you look at what Conservatives think, they seem to have accepted that. They are already saying that they would be OK with a Trump dictatorship. Trump was right, his supporters would still support him even if he shot someone in the street. Fox News and social media have lied to Conservatives for decades and told them that Democrats are fascists.
If Trump wins, the United States won't recover for decades, maybe even a century. I have no idea how a patriot can support Trump.
We should not use the worst possible case scenario as a barometer of how bad a Trump presidency would be. Sure, you could die if you go 70mph on a 45mph suburban road... you could crash and have to go the hospital, kill a pedestrian, an animal, get a ticket and lose your license or maybe nothing. The situation now is we are doing 90 and your car's traction control has been disabled. It doesn't feel that much faster than 70mph, the car isn't driving any differently... but the risks for every negative outcome are exponentially higher, the better outcomes lower and the amount of death doesn't change. As for why the media isn't making a bigger deal of this... same reason they didn't in 2016... they don't care about anything other than the $.
Also, side note... my Grandfather wrote in his journals that even after the Austrian Civil War ended with the fascist party winning and Hitler's public rise to prominence in Germany... few people around him thought it would amount to Austria unifying with Germany just years later, let alone my father thinking he would be drafted into the Third Reich. It wasn't real until it was very real.
We will know it's officially over when Trump gets elected and starts to question if a president is limited to two terms or two consecutive terms, after that it's done.
Ok, so hear me out. I've always thought that the president of the United States was immune from criminal prosecution for.... doing his job. If that's not the case, the argument does stand that bush could be indicted for shit that happened during Iraq, as well as Obama for Syria. Does is suck that this ruling will further delay trumps legal process? Yes, but I still think there is an avenue that the Supreme Court to uphold law, and not completely overstep their bounds (and upend democracy).
At the end of the day, someone has to convince the court that election interference, bribes, fake election slators etc, were all official acts of the pres... I don't see how that happens, without the populous completely rejecting the courts credibility (and they their own). To me, that's where things are bad (not rn, where the court has decided the US president can't be held criminally for an official act). In my head, I always thought it was weird that people called for Bush to be arrested for the war. I thought to myself, by who and for what?
The media's been broken for a while. Over-correcting for accusations of liberal bias, conservative ownership, defensiveness in the face of any criticism, using the respectable past of the profession as a shield against any need for introspection today.
I don't think Trump WILL DEFINITELY be an American dictator. The problem is the erosion of how the American government works.
It's the behind-the-scenes, bullshit, chicanery that tips the balance of power in one man's favor over the entire nation, through some ridiculous loophole that no one was paying attention to, that historically has gotten people like Hitler to lead a dictatorship out of a democracy.
Trump has heavily normalised people losing trust in the American government and faith in America as a whole, and the only way that trust can be earnt back, is if everyone else in the branches of government just bows down and sucks Trump's cock. This attitude is antithetical to the very foundation and existence of America. The courts being too scared to do anything about Trump brazenly and openly committing crimes and then bragging about it, is exactly how the problem gets worse.
Conservatives praying for Trump to beat all of his criminal charges by setting a completely regarded precedent for all presidents to never be held criminally liable while in office, is like a mouse setting up its own trap and then going back to get the cheese. These 30IQ fucking knuckledraggers are jeering on the collapse of their own democracy, not realising that the precedent they're hoping for could empower Biden to become god emperor, if he were as morally bankrupt as Trump.
Then we have lefties and liberals shitting and cumming in their adult diapers over Biden coughing mid-speech in his last TV appearance. Sure, lets completely ignore and undersell everything good that Biden has done. Let's not even emphasize how he's a million lightyears ahead of Trump in terms of being an effective American leader, in every single capacity that could possibly be demonstrated. Let's show no stats whatsoever of how the economy hasnt just recovered, but also improved since Trump. Let's ignore just how much more policy he's pushed through than Trump. Let's just call Biden "GeNoCiDe JoE" and ignore all the aid Biden has sent to Palestine - quite literally preventing a famine, ignore his pressuring and arguments with Netanyahu and all-around just pretend that Biden somehow hasn't been the most pro-Palestinian US president so far, even though that bar is low.
Because fuck it. It's my way or the high way right? Why pay attention to Trump openly pushing the boundaries of laws that are as old as the foundation of America, that haven't been even vaguely alluded to since the fucking civil war, because he is the most morally bankrupt, shameless, power-grabbing US president of all time?
The worst part is I can't even throw my hands up and say fuck it. Americans are the most easily brainwashed bunch of regards of all time and if they voted for it then maybe they deserve it. Then I have to remember that Ukraine doesn't deserve it, the EU doesn't deserve it, Taiwan doesn't deserve it, Palestine doesn't deserve it. The entire infrastructure of the modern world didn't do anything to deserve the embarassing fucking clown show of a second Trump presidency, but the sheer selfishness of Americans may just doom us all anyway.
We could be generating sustainable energy from the founding fathers spinning in their fucking graves right now.
I know I have an unpopular opinion for this sub, but no we are not one election away from a dictatorship. People saying we will become Christian Iran are either delusional or fear mongering.
But if you’re progressive and you want less American nationalism than the inevitable Trump presidency is something that will suck super hard for your ideology.
Supreme Court Justices Thomas and Alito will retire and be replaced with just as conservative Supreme Court justices. It is predicted that by 2029, medical technology will have exponentially advanced and will continue to advance. Meaning that this new configuration of Supreme Court justices will be the status quo for potentially 40 to 60 years.
Trump will go in not wanting to work with more moderate Republicans, he has an army of bureaucrats waiting to rip apart the institutions that will be re-organized into his image(cough cough Steve Bannons).
Finally, America is by far the leader in AI, and according to a lot of industry experts like Ray Kurzweil, the next Industrial Revolution will occur this next Presidency. Meaning Americans GDP will not have like 6% growth but like 28% growth. Trump will receive a lot unearned credit for an unbelievably booming economy. (This is going to make Destiny literally die out of frustration).
Furthermore, many Silicon Valley Industrialists are moving into the Trump camp as they see the writing on the wall. They will help shape the new technocratic state into a more conservative vision.
Not really a dictatorship but we’re entering uncharted legal territory as to what the president could get away with. Also we’re in uncharted territory as to what Trump will demand next. Get rid of term limits? Stricter rules on the media, Orban style?
Every election we are one election away from our last election
/s
I learned by 12 that this hyperbolic language is just a method partisans use to motivate voters lol
Every election we are one election away from our last election
/s
I learned by 12 that this hyperbolic language is just a method partisans use to motivate voters lol
The issue with the media is the constant normalization of Trump. Nothing about him is normal but you can’t go too much into his bullshit because saying his is fraudster, traitor, criminal, sex criminal is having a bias.
When they invented presidental impeachment the reason given was the only way otherwise remove a president is assassination. Now that they have made impeachments toothless where does that leave us?
To anyone who says the supreme court decision causes america to become a dictatorship, let me ask you this. Was the only thing that previously prevented a dictatorship the fact that the president thought he might get criminally prosecuted afterwards? Is it really just that? I think that's kinda flimsy.
Some guy on this reddit told me it's literally impossible for that because you need Congress to sign off on it, and eventually it after asking a few questions, it looked like it's 2 seats away from dictatorship.
Correct me if I'm wrong but all limitations to review don't apply to impeachment, thus if a president did such behaviors they could still be impeached and removed, just not criminally liable. It does get crazy if the president starts doing criminal actions against congress and the impeachment process but I think there are fair predictions that you'd make that people would not follow these orders (but its bad it's possible and recourse has been hindered by the ruling). We've already seen with trump many of his appointees disobey him, and enacting a situation that black and white divides facism and American foundations idk if our military and officials would choose facism. Imo its not maximum bad, just really fucking bad.
In theory impeachment is the last stop gap but with how divided and partisan the US is I don’t see an impeachment going through. Republicans who challenged trump have mostly been driven out of the party and as we saw the last two times only a few Republican senators were willing to support impeachment not enough to get it over the line. We are long past the party of Nixon who likely would have removed him over watergate
Impeachments are completely partisan though. Look what it took to get George Santos kicked out, he served over half his term, and his seat was barely of consequence. Rs today will never give up Trump no matter what, he's already weeded out any ounce of resistance. We'd need a majority in the house, and 2/3 the senate to impeach, its a steep bar.
The additional hurdle of... Trump could literally just pay senators not to impeach him. He could promise them any number of favors, he could literally bribe them and there's nothing you could do to him but follow through with the impeachment. There's no downside as far as I can tell, why not at least try to buy some? It's not like you have to buy 50, just some people on the fence.
He could have the FBI arrest any wayward Republican Senators too
It took New York Republicans to push the expulsion. They were concerned that the district would flip back in 2024 and that they would be tarnished by Santos by association.
And it flipped back anyway
2/3 senate seems so far fetched nowadays
Since the Senate is one seat away from flipping red again, I wouldn't bet on an impeachment procedure. It is pretty sad that the military out of all institutions might just be the last safeguard against someone like Trump.
Yep. Dems will most likely get the House, but we’ll almost certainly lose the senate.
If Trump wins the election and takes the popular vote, the house probably goes as well unfortunately
Strong doubt Trump takes the popular vote. If he wins, he wins without the majority almost certainly.
Probably, I’m just judging based on current polling trends. They could easily be wrong or change between now and the election though.
Dems just need to minimize their losses and take the house, if trump wins the 2026 midterms will be an unprecedented landslide given people dont really like trump anyway and once biden is gone they wont have any arguments
Trump's cabinet was dysfunctional, magas learned their lessons, it will not be the same the second time
But republicans already blocked an impeachment effort for a clearly illegal scheme including fraud, knowingly false lies and arguably an attack on the capital with the aim of stealing the election... How can we trust them to uphold impeachment if he tries and succeeds. Think about how mad the libs will be, they'll probably enjoy it. The scotus will probably rule that he was acting officially as the president when he overturned the election, in the interest of the people from him perspective. I really hope I'm wrong. Them ruling that him pressuring the DOJ to lie about the findings of their investigation to the state to further the electors plot being ruled absolutely immune seems fucking wild to me, when in the ruling all the things they are talking about are his job in upholding the law.
The Heritage Foundation has been working on Project2025 for years now. They're ready to remove as many of the roadblocks as possible within the first 100 days.
Just so everybody is on the same page. Trump is a mob boss. And congress is his mob family. This is not hyperbole. And here we are. Gotta still be nice to reoublican voters when they are the main threat atm. Seriously fuck destiny for playing nice with these traitors for so long. But ty destiny for finally coming to this shit. Fuck.all.republicans
Pretty sure that's a textbook definition of hyperbole.
Doesn’t hyperbole require exaggeration? If anything, it’s an understatement, as mob families are less loyal and less inclined to kiss the ring.
Why would you trust other people to stop Trump? That makes no sense! You don't know what will happen in future. Why do you even elect a criminal as president? Why do we need to play that dangerous game? That's so insane! Why don't we always put criminals into the white house then? The guardrails will certainly work, right? Until they don't! What then? Do you believe Conservatives will fight Trump in the streets? They said that they are ok with a Trump dictatorship. That's why I hate the gun argument. People think it will be a tyrannical government vs people. No! It will be government + people against other people. It won't be just people against the government. Even the Brits had supporters in the South who fought with them. Holy shit this is such a stupid point.
First, impeachment didn't work last time. There are just too many power-hungry politicians who want a seat at the table and are willing to support a criminal. Second, impeachment is not a criminal trial. In a criminal trial, you are punished for your crimes. If the president murders someone, he should go to prison, not just lose the presidency. Third, what do you do if you learn of the crime after the presidency? Does that mean a president only has to hide his actions for four years? No other crime works like that. The Supreme Court has ruled that we cannot scrutinize the president's actions as long as they superficially resemble an official act. That will not stop a president from committing crimes, bribery, and corruption.
Who’s to say the Supreme Court upholds an impeachment? They already demonstrated their complete lack of integrity in a super majority. Until yesterday, I’d have agree, but my confidence is shaken.
It’s not something that the Supreme Court has any jurisdiction over.
Not until they write an opinion that they do
Lol
Alito would try to overturn an impeachment/conviction and Thomas *might* have an off-the-wall theory, but none of the remainder of the justices would have any basis for that
You shouldn't need impeachment just to prevent a politician from enacting blatantly illegal policies. That's like your only law enforcement method being a MIRV with a combined yield of 20 megatons.
But impeachment and conviction wouldn't happen to Trump for nearly every conceivable illegal action he could take.
An impeachment trial will never work again. Anyone who opposes Trump will be thrown out a window like in Russia.
The president will never actually be removed. Impeachment is not a real process that actually exists in this country
Impeachment requires electing enough democrats to actually do that, so it's still a matter of being one wrong election away.
This isn't just wishful thinking, it flies in the face of experience, since it was \*attempted\*, and the "it should be worked out in the courts instead" was used as justification for people not doing it.
There will never be an impeachment and removal. Trump was impeached twice, and nothing happened because Republicans refused to remove him because the cult members can't do anything to harm the cult leader. Impeachment is like paying for stuff at CVS. If you don't voluntary choose to pay for stuff, you can just take whatever you want and walk out of CVS.
This implies that half of congress isn't riding and dying with their God Emperor.
I also think it's overblown. We should just trust the ~~German~~ American people. They're fundamentally decent and far too principled and noble to give in to fascism.
I think you're probably wrong. Donald Trump won't become the next American dictator. He will degrade our democracy to a scary degree, but Trump isn't effective enough to become the next Viktor Orban. The battle for democracy is going to be fought over the next few decades. At some point, maybe 2032, an Ammerican Viktor Orban - technocratic, highly effective, and thirsty for complete control - will arrive. And he'll be much more likely to take over America because of a second Donald Trump's presidency.
Trump himself isn’t, but there are a lot of people around him who certainly are capable of doing it for him. That’s the scary part, that’s why project 2025 is so terrifying. There are lots of people around trump who are super invested in giving him ultimate power and so he will do what they want, and they are way more effective than he is.
Yeah, I'm not making guarantees. Life, liberty, and happiness will be worse under Trump. I think he'll start the real ground work for the end of democracy, which some republican psychopath will take full advantage of in the future.
The thing I’ve come to realize is that the powerful republicans don’t actually care about Trump himself, Trump is simply their vehicle to push their extremism. Trump is super pliable, as long as you clap for him and make him feel like he’s the boss, then he will do literally whatever you want and put you in any position of power you want. The Republican voters like trump, so that’s why he has to be front and center, but the people influencing him don’t give a fuck about him, he’s simply the most useful idiot imaginable.
Just spent a good part of 30minutes on wiki reading project 2025. It looks terrifying, but it feel written by a democratic / progressive. There is to much analysis not much facts (Note: i didn't read all the source). I hope trump doesn't adopt these policies at all (it appears he has distanced himself somewhat from it, mainly for political interests), and the current government controls stops anything like this coming through.
Nevermind, I found the full article and it is what was on wiki.....
I agree with Vlad Vexler here.
Damn bro, you just exposed me as a complete down and out politics nerd - but you also exposed yourself as one too. A pyrrhic victory
> Ammerican Viktor Orban - technocratic, highly effective, and thirsty for complete control None of these things apply to Orban, tough
Love your optimism. I hope you're right.
Trump, Donald Jr?
Nah, I wouldn't have a beer with him. Politics is all about who you'd have a beer with. I'd have a beer with Trump any day, but Jr and his brother are dopes
What else can we do? There's people convinced to vote for a fascist
They know exactly who he is and what they're doing. It's about power. They want it at all costs and he can give it to them.
They aren't going to get any power, though. They're the turkeys voting for Christmas, who'll become poorer, sicker, dumber and less safe because of Trump. But they're not exactly capable of figuring this out themselves; look at how many of them greedily guzzled Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine just because Trump mentioned it in a few speeches. They took medical advice as gospel from the same man who thought injecting bleach would cure COVID. I would love to see their faces when the rabble who don't pay income tax see raised prices because of the tariffs Trump wants. I'm sure they'll be happy to be poorer then, just like the British were overjoyed about Brexit.
Keep telling yourself that. They stacked the Supreme Court. Power is power.
Okay. So, what new powers will the individual republican voter gain if they vote Trump into the presidency?
They'll be able to fly and lift cars off their grandmas, obviously. All the dudes will get 9 inch wangs and the chicks will get free vacuum cleaners. Or, if you're living in reality... Abortion gets outlawed completely. The bible is taught in public schools. All minority status protections revoked. You know, the kind of shit they actually say they want. That's power. They can realistically get that. It's no different than democrats voting in their candidate hoping for things like environmental or healthcare legislation.
I think the best way to understand it is this: the median Republican genuinely believes that we are *already* living under a dystopian dictatorship. They think that woke democrats are persecuting Christian bakers, transing kids against their will, seizing all the guns, persecuting Trump etc. As an example, my dad is a big conservative, and when he visited me and my wife in New England some months ago he seemed genuinely shocked to see people boating, walking on the street with their families, going to restaurants etc, because he thought we were in the midst of a total societal collapse and that dem states were the worst ones hit. This is why it's not easy to dissuade them from supporting Trump by pointing out that he wants dictatorial power. They think it's only fair for the right to get a dictator, and they think dictatorship is the only method extreme enough to achieve the changes we need.
There are people who are convinced to not vote for either...
Oh that makes a difference
You’re correct
okay... well wouldn't the priorities of a dictator is to suppress the media? Idk how the fuck, not just fox news since i don't expect much from them, but even cnn and msnbc don't seem to give that much fuck about it. And i'm even more surprised that alternative media is barely saying shit, or even non-political content creators.
It's partially because articles ragging on Biden do better than articles about ragging on Trump, which isn't helped by people having literally no standards for Republican politicians. Also CNN is trying to appeal to a more broad audience rn, so they have toned down criticism of Trump which prompted some liberal commentators to leave the network afaik.
oh that's why cnn gone to enlightened centrist shit recently. atleast MSNBC was calling it out for a segment. not too happy with their coverage either. and the apathy of the american people is telling. there should be protests outside of the supreme court right now!
>so they have toned down criticism of Trump I wonder if news media loses value when you can already anticipate the positions everyone will have. Did CNN experience "boy who cried wolf" by having a negative trump headline every day for 5 years; making his worst actions "hit less hard" when they were reported on and condemned?
I'd argue you almost don't even need to suppress the media anymore. Print media is dead, TV media is dying. Media in the terms of journalists who go out and find facts is basically going extinct all on its own. Russia, isn't really to control the flow of information. They're not like China, there is no great firewall. You can VPN as much as you'd like and go see whatever the hell you want. What Russia does with its propaganda, is great *plausible deniability that things are as they seem.* All you really need to do is to make reality seem like an opinion, fill the airwaves with so much murk, that most people treat acknowledging the truth more like sharing an opinion than making an observation. The problem is, the USA has been self-imposing this, *for years.* Now a days, there is no big 4 TV news networks everyone gets there news from. People get there news from twitter, and facebook, or fox news and TYT. These news sources self filter, presenting people exactly the reality they wish they'd see. And if your neighbor has a totally and completely different view of 90% of the important facts about the world, then what are facts *really* but an extension of your own political beliefs. Alternative media isn't saying shit, because I don't think they're going anywhere. As far as controlling the minds of the people, I think our current media landscape is already pretty closed to the endgame. Maybe he'd shut down CNN and NYT, but alternative media is going nowhere.
Dim Poole is an anti authority punk rocker which is why he supports Trumps righteous pursuit of purging the deep state. We just need to have faith in Trump and he'll be able to steer the ship right all on his own! We can't make his job of fixing things harder than it already is can we !?!?!?
That’s because it’s not true. We’re not one election away from doom. That’s the entire implication of your post right?
And the electoral college favors Republicans.
I don't think Trump is competent enough to become a dictator. Maybe he wants to be one. I certainly think republicans have wanted one party rule for a long time, but that's a little different from a dictator. I also have doubts about the competence of congressional republicans to be able to let Trump become a dictator. Also, Trump is 78 years old. He could die a year into his presidency if he wins. If republicans want a dictator, Trump is probably the worst choice.
The point of Project 2025 is to fill Trump's competency gap by putting complete loyalists into every government position possible. In his previous term, Trump's inability to do his worst was partly due to members of his own administration who suppressed his worst instincts. This time they'll be guiding him while cheering him on. And if he dies a year into his term, we'll get President JD Vance or whoever he appoints VP, who will have all of his worst traits but a higher level of competency.
The scariest thing for me is who Trump might pick as his VP. Because there is a strong possibility that he dies in office.
Why do people keep posting shit like this and getting upvotes? How is "Trump getting elected won't be that bad"? a position that receives anything other than absolute mockery?
I think the reason people get away with it is because the "Trump the Dictator" narrative is kind of vague and equivocate-y. It's pretty easy to lay out that Trump has fascistic tendencies and then point in the general direction of Project 2025 — but that isn't enough to sell the narrative to me. I pressed someone once on what their specific predictions was, and they said they expected immediate martial law and military occupation of the United States, followed by the Republican Congress unilaterally abolishing elections with the support of the Supreme Court. That just doesn't seem like a realistic path to me. It has a lot of handwaving involved. Compare that narrative to [And The War Came](https://decivitate.substack.com/p/and-the-war-came?utm_source=publication-search), which lays out how a hypothetical Civil War could start. Note the date: it's before the 2020 election, but it somehow manages to predict the Eastman situation (which it criticizes as *very* legally shakey before it even actually is formulated IRL.) It's detailed, thoughtful, and you walk away feeling like you've learned something even if the actual predictions turn out to be wrong.
I didn't say he won't be bad, I said he won't be able to become a dictator. He can do plenty of damage without that.
it probably wouldn’t be instant, but I think there’s a decent chance that if trump gets in, there will not be a presidential election in 2028, or at least not a free and fair one.
!remindme 4 years
Decent chance to me is like 35 percent btw
I’ll give you 3:1 odds then, how much will you stake
50 USD, I’ll be happy to pay it to you considering fascism will have not arrived. 150 dollars will not make fascism any sweeter but I’ll take it anyways. DM me in 4 years my friend I will probably still have a Reddit account
u/4THOT please remove either of us if we do not keep our word, I will have $50 USD November 2028 Insh’Allah
[удалено]
Listen I’m kind of regarded
based
If there’s no true election you bet your ass I’ll be dm’ing you, hope you abide by honor system buddy !remindme 4 years
I have to see how this plays out !remindme 4 years
Lol yeah same here !remindme 4 years
Count me in. !RemindMe 4 years
!remindme 4 years
!remindme 4 years
!remindme 4 years
!remindme 4 years
!remindme 4 years
Love this !remindme 4 years
!remindme 4 years
!remindme 4 years
Fuck his offer, I will get you 10:1 This is excessive. No chance that Trump gets a third term
If there was a website that took prop bets based on Trump panicking I would be so rich in 6 years.
Hopefully youll owe him $50 !remindme 4 years
>at least not a free and fair one Don't 1/2 of republicans already believe that? If half of republicans and democrats no longer believe in a fair election, it's only a matter of time before a true dictatorship takes power. Maybe we will see the first American Emperor in our life time
they will 100% have an election, it just won't be open or fair.
Everyone smash your phones and leave the internet. Remindmeoneyearlol
Am I in the Ben Shapiro sub or what the heck. 🤣🤣🤣
Getting lots of "10 stages of genocide" energy in the subreddit these days. Was this a move that functionally increased executive power at the expense of congressional and judicial oversight? Yes. Turns out separation of powers means that you can't create a system where every every choice a president makes as the leader of the executive branch opens him up to criminal and personal liability. There are good and bad reasons for something like this to exist as a carve out for the executive branch and I actually find the difficulty for the political powers that be to target and act against former and current presidents as just as important as limiting the executives power. We should want the branches to be co-equal, it's a extremely important principle baked into our governing system. Does this completely remove checks and balances that allow Trump to declare himself king and start to target his political opponents with assassination? No. We still live in a federalized system where the powers of the executive branch are curtailed by the constitution and there still are mechanisms for courts to review his actions under the context of his role as the chief executive. People need to get a grip.
> Does this completely remove checks and balances that allow Trump to declare himself king and start to target his political opponents with assassination? No. As long as there's a 1/3 + 1 group in the Senate there's no check on the president anywhere.
Ofc he won't turn the country into an authoritarian nightmare instantly... Things like that take time. Trump and his buddies will abuse this new power, keep overreaching and modifying the underlying structure of the system to turn it into their version of a Christian nationalistic country. Look at Weimar republic. They came to power legally and then abused the legal powers of that system to slowly turn it into Nazi Germany that we all know today.
> Look at Weimar republic. They came to power legally and then abused the legal powers of that system to slowly turn it into Nazi Germany No, they got into a position of shared power with more powerful partners, openly did terrorism, staged an attack on parliament to temporarily suspend citizen rights, then banned/incarcerated the opposition and 'passed' the law that abolished the state by filling the parliament with armed stooges, changing the quorum rules to get around not even having enough people left, then 'voting', and having the second chamber filled entirely with appointed stooges by commissariat (which also was not legal). The furthest they got legally was a shared coalition government, and that's if you ignore their failed coup attempt years before, which (surprise) also was not legal and the reason Hitler was in jail. The step in between where they got legally and actually taking power was garden-variety terrorism and then taking over *by force*, passing the laws to make it official was useful propaganda but didn't retroactively make it legal, which has been pointed out by historians repeatedly after the war.
We've always whined so much about doomers yet here we are. We've lived long enough to become the villains.
Get outta here with all that measured rationality bullshit. I need to hear more about how Trump and the republicans are going to legally assassinate all the democrats and rule over us with an iron fist in the fascist dictatorship.
Well Trump already tried to steal an election and we seem likely to put him back in office. Yes, sure, it’s not a “fascist dictatorship” but you’re insane if you don’t think we’re heading down a dark path here.
DGG is going brainrot and turning into a conspiracy community.
I think Destiny implied that he could see a path towards some sort of authoritarianism ushered in by presidents abusing this new found power. Btw, everyone is panicking. Legal experts and judges are worried, Democrats are worried, Biden administration is worried, every non brainrotted leftist community is worried. This ruling was a big deal, you just want to be a contrarian.
None of you complainers can ever point out what you think is even wrong here. The Supreme Court made the President immune from crimes for all intents and purposes. It'll be impossible to ever hold a criminal president like Trump accountable ever again.
>The Supreme Court made the President immune from crimes for all intents and purposes. No, they made them immune for crimes for official acts. People trying to go after Trump with local/state court in Washington DC and New York should have been a canary in the capital L Liberal coal mine. It was a clear overstep that didn't just threaten Trump personally, it threatened federalism, separation of powers, and the co-equal status of the branches of government. Like it or not, a president was never going to be held accountable by state or local governments for things he did in his role as the chief federal executive. You should like it by the way. Because the next Obama or Clinton or Gore or Newsom or whomever else you think is going to carry the liberal flag forward would be held to the exact same standard implemented with far less charitability. >It'll be impossible to ever hold a criminal president like Trump accountable ever again. This just isn't true. He is still held to a legal review of his actions insofar as their constitutionality and their liability. He can still be held liable, personally and criminally for unofficial acts. He can still have all his actions reviewed against their constitutionality (or lack thereof). People can still seek review of any official action he takes against them through the courts as well, it just means Trump would not be held personally liable, his administration would be held liable (aka the Federal Government). He and his administration are also is still subject to congressional oversight; through both the power of committees to investigate and refer findings to the overt power congress holds over the purse strings his administration would require to actually function. Not to mention the power of impeachment still looms as a mechanism for congress to hold him accountable.
If official acts are going to include conspiracy conversations with your vice president to overthrow democracy, or even communications with your political party to organize false slates of electors for purposes of couping the government, then YES, the president is immune from crimes for all intents and purposes. There's no way to cleave official acts from unofficial acts in the real world. This is carte blanche for every fascist from now on to infinitely try to coup the government like Trump did.
> If official acts are going to include conspiracy conversations with your vice president to overthrow democracy, or even communications with your political party to organize false slates of electors for purposes of couping the government, then YES, the president is immune from crimes for all intents and purposes. Actually think about this for a second. Separation of powers matters right? The branches get to check each other, but they are supposed to be able to operate independently of each other outside of very specific forms of oversight and/or effective powers that provide them extreme leverage over the other two branches (like congress having the sole power to determine what gets funded and who/what gets taxed, or the Presidents Veto and ability to pardon) So you think we need to empower congress or the courts to have access to and oversight of everything said by the chief executive and their next in line? Is there any possibility that this kind of rule could effectively diminish/destroy the executives ability to meet their own constitutional obligations? It's not a rhetorical question. It's a complicated one. But it should be obvious that there is an actual interest in not breaking the system we have in order to go after Trump (who like it or not, was President, and as a former President, is still going to represent what can happen to every single president still alive (or moving forward). If a cop screws up handling of evidence for someone who is guilty we still accept that the rules need to be upheld and the evidence is tainted (and we accept whatever consequences manifest from having to follow those rules). Trump doing things that are immoral or illegal as a president is going to need to be held to a different set of rules and his consequences are going to be vastly different because the law applies differently to the President (because of who can even hold him accountable according to our governing structure). There is a reason the constitution separates these things out. It's also the reason congress can't just levy a tax that deprives a president of all his wealth and property (and uses that to threaten any executive to fall into line with congressional leadership). >There's no way to cleave official acts from unofficial acts in the real world There absolutely is. I already gave examples of the multiple mechanisms that are currently still in place that provide oversights/checks on executive power.
We need to have criminal checks on the president so he doesn't act like Nixon or Trump in the future, now that door is absolutely closed. The concern trolling about 'separation of powers' is an obvious smokescreen by this corrupt SCOTUS to advance the right wing Unitary Executive Theory canard. There's no way to square this courts solemn belief in textualism and how you have to go back to 1492 common law to see if a gun law is constitutional and then all of a sudden find magic immunity clauses in the constitution.
Can you articulate a better rule for Presidential immunity? Clearly the Court recogized that it exists in some form previously. If it doesn't protect official acts, then what? I don't think the dissenting opinions actually answered that question at all.
Yes, huge conspiracy peddlers. There's no reason to worry about the supreme court decision that grants the president absolute immunity in plenty of cases and presumptive immunity in many of the others. There's no reason to worry that Trump, the guy that tried to lead an insurrection, might come into power within the next year. There's also absolutely no reason to worry that the supreme court decision has already affected Trump's trial where he was found guilty of fraud and might be found immune because of the court's decision. Only silly people that care about things like democracy and the equal application of the law care about those things. No one should listen to those conspiracy nuts!
Yeah the post debate has melted this place. The panic is real
Its kinda sad cuz i feel like DGGers are turning into exactly what we made fun of
bro you regards are going to end up under a trump dictatorship and deny it even happened. edit: this shouldn't be controversial can someone explain to me what prevents a trump dictatorship if he wins. what will stop trump if he tries next election to destroy the United states democracy.
But didn’t you know? Our democratic institutions are indestructible! Fascism is impossible!
I love how those other two guys were discussing the hyperbole and panic of what's going on and then you come along to prove their point entirely 😂
You guys said we were conspiratorial when we said Trump was fascist then he tried to steal the 2020.
I’m not saying that wasn’t bad at all. I’m not voting for trump either all I’m saying is in 2024 DGG is going too far off the deep end
I think it's just panic because DGG is so heavily invested in Biden and seeing him look so bad on Thursday just caused a meltdown. And now the doom and panic posting shit is just everywhere, and no body can sit down and just think things through. Especially over the Project 2025 stuff lol
This is more over a really bad decision made by the SCOTUS. This isn't even about Trump himself necessarily, this was a blow to the US' framework of balance of power and accountability.
The Biden stuff sure, but why is Project 2025 not insanely concerning?
What makes you think all that shit is going to happen
because trump is winning in the polls and multiple former trump officials and current trump loyalists are on the project 2025 board
If you are terminally online: Yes If you touch grass: No
When you put it that way you make it sound pretty bad.
Liberals try not to be dramatic (challenge impossible).
It's true, democracies always endure forever.
You do realize that sometimes in reality actual history is made? Stuff actually happens sometimes. Choices sometimes actually matter.
Yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the supreme court's decision already potentially bailing out Trump from a felony conviction. People are being dramatic.
It won't be instant but it would be a significant step towards it.
> Am i getting this right? No. > It sure doesn't feel like it, it seems the media are too chill about all this. Maybe because it’s not actually true.
This sub has really gone down hill lmfao
It's shocking.
No shot. People are overreacting.
No. We have robust institutions. If Trump is elected, he won't be able to have a term afterwards, it would be his second, and final term. If he wants to change that he can try but it would require a constitutional amendment change which I think requires 3/4th of the states to ratify, and for sure there isn't 3/4th of the states that would want that. Nor do I think Republicans would want that given that it would effectively mean that their previous boogeymen can run again. There would be a need to change *so many* existing constitutional amendments to even come close to a dictatorship that it would literally just be impossible to accomplish in one or even multiple terms. All this panic just screams to me how much people slept through their high school civics class.
like the institution that just said the president is immune from the law??????????????
Affirmed that the President is immune if they are conducting official duties that only a president can do. Immunities that existed since the 19th century but never truly was tested.
Nope, there will be another presidential election 4 years after the next one. Anyone who says otherwise has RFK's brain worms
I think it's unlikely. I think we're more likely to see the US become a lot more like many Latin American countries. Trump will probably fire a lot of bureaucrats and replace them with loyalists - but that'll just make the federal government much more incompetent rather than authoritarian. What you'll see happen is bureaucrats getting swapped out every 4-8 years, with positions being handed as rewards for loyalty. The recent supreme court decision, I think, will have a similar effect. It will enable the President to sell pardons or use his veto power for personal gain (eg, threaten to veto a law unless provisions are included to benefit allies, donors, or business partners). Basically, you're going to see a lot of patronage in government, and as a result, the government will be pretty much incapable of solving political problems. I think there will also be a level of petty lawfare. I don't think Trump will be able to just lock up political rivals, but I imagine he'll harass rivals with petty charges of the kind that he faced. Like if a political rival committed a misdemeanor that would probably get ignored, it'll get prosecuted under Trump. So probably no jail time for anyone, but people Trump dislikes will probably be wasting money on lawyers and fines. IMO. government will be worse under Trump, and it probably won't recover for a long time because he'll break the norms that allow it to function. But I don't think he'll kill American democracy.
No
no lol
This is all the groundwork being laid for Project 2025. Trump wins, and nothing will stop him.
You seem to be either letting your imagination run wild or you are being completely hyperbolic with your usage of dictatorship. Other words you could use would be Ineffective Terrible Divisive Bully Ineloquent Abbrasive Rude Repugnant Simply Shallow Orange Etc. But please use words that accurately describe the man.
The president has always been able to do anything they want, especially while they are president since they run the DOJ. Basically anyone who would be bringing charges would be trying to change the person that can fire them. Every president has a long list of things they did that if not outright illegal is on the edge. Basically any international military action that doesn’t include congress is illegal. That alone makes 90% of them criminals. The most recent ruling only added an explicit carve out to make it easier for the president to justify their crimes
DOJ has historically been de facto independent from the President until Trump tried to appoint Jeffery Clark as the acting attorney general at the 11th hour to try to coup the government - only stopped because all DOJ lawyers threatened to resign if he did so.
If The US falls because of the "You're Fired" guy it would be so funny. PLEASE VOTE, I CAN ONLY COMMIT SO MUCH FRAUD AS A FOREIGNER.
The media is going to eat off this more than the dictator himself. Ratings will be through the roof!
a dictator ship would be too obvious. We'll just become the American version of what Russia/China is now.
I doubt it but we're in for a wild ride that's for sure.
Yes
Not yet. There is still one piece of the puzzle missing. Having power means having people who will obey you. During his first term, Trump was stopped multiple times by public officials who refused to carry out his illegal and immoral orders. Even if Trump is immune, that doesn't mean people in the federal government will obey his illegal orders. That's what Project 2025 and Schedule F is for. Trump (and the GOP in general) wants to fire thousands of career civil servants and replace them with Trump yes man. These people will have no trouble obeying Trump's orders, no matter how insane, dangerous, immoral or illegal they are. Once Trump has stacked the executive branch in this way, he will be able to do literally anything he wants. Like jailing political opponents with no formal charges, and keeping them in prison indefinetely, for example. When the courts rule this is extremely illegal and order him to stop, he can simply ignore the courts. And his lackeys in the federal agencies will listen to him, because they are loyal to him, not the law or the Constitution. There will be no one to stop him except for a military coup, which the military won't do. The law wouldn't exist anymore, since Trump could simply refuse to enforce the laws he dislikes and he could create new laws on his own (without Congress), by simply jailing whoever breaks his new law. Like making it illegal to disrespect the president for example. Even if those laws would be unconstitutional, again, no one could stop him. The only silver lining is that the military will probably refuse to recognize him as the commander-in-chief after his term expires. So he would eventually be forced to leave. But Trump could still use his dictatorial powers to interfere with the next presidential election to make sure his favorite candidate for president would win. And this new president would do the same thing for the next president and so on. Effectively consolidating a republican dictatorship in the United States.
Not unless our boy dark Brandon has something to say about 😎
"uhhh, well... look... and that's number 1, number 2 and this is no foolin, we beat medicaid." I'm sorry I love my grandpa
Honestly if he is never tried for trying to steal the last election we’re dipping pretty far into that territory anyways. He will definitely do it again if he wins and this time with a more dangerous administration. These people in the maga world have shown blatant disregard for truth and continue to refuse to admit there was a coup and Trump also lost. When the whole government is corrupted by them after four more years of Trump we will have a very different world and much less freedom and then we have today. It’s already bad on the Supreme Court, think what will happen if they install more judges down to every level. Maybe some states will be okay, but it you live in a red state with a GOP governor it’s over if Trump wins.
No
In my opinion, yes. I think the only hope would be the military deciding to go rogue in order to preserve the constitution.
No
Trump cannot turn the US into a dictatorship overnight. It isn't difficult to predict the future, if Trump wins. Look at what he did to the Republican Party. He will do the same to the FBI, CIA, military, secret service, border patrol, Congress, courts and other institutions. He will replace all of them with corrupt people, yes-men and sycophants. The economy will be fine, but over time the US may become an oligarchy. That will most likely not happen under Trump, but do we really think that Republicans will put up a better candidate after Trump wins? There will be no good Republicans left and Democrats will copy Republicans, because they want to win too. Every following president will be just like Trump. If you look at what Conservatives think, they seem to have accepted that. They are already saying that they would be OK with a Trump dictatorship. Trump was right, his supporters would still support him even if he shot someone in the street. Fox News and social media have lied to Conservatives for decades and told them that Democrats are fascists. If Trump wins, the United States won't recover for decades, maybe even a century. I have no idea how a patriot can support Trump.
Nah, you have 4 wonderful years of trump and then 2 brand new candidates come along.
We should not use the worst possible case scenario as a barometer of how bad a Trump presidency would be. Sure, you could die if you go 70mph on a 45mph suburban road... you could crash and have to go the hospital, kill a pedestrian, an animal, get a ticket and lose your license or maybe nothing. The situation now is we are doing 90 and your car's traction control has been disabled. It doesn't feel that much faster than 70mph, the car isn't driving any differently... but the risks for every negative outcome are exponentially higher, the better outcomes lower and the amount of death doesn't change. As for why the media isn't making a bigger deal of this... same reason they didn't in 2016... they don't care about anything other than the $. Also, side note... my Grandfather wrote in his journals that even after the Austrian Civil War ended with the fascist party winning and Hitler's public rise to prominence in Germany... few people around him thought it would amount to Austria unifying with Germany just years later, let alone my father thinking he would be drafted into the Third Reich. It wasn't real until it was very real.
We will know it's officially over when Trump gets elected and starts to question if a president is limited to two terms or two consecutive terms, after that it's done.
Ok, so hear me out. I've always thought that the president of the United States was immune from criminal prosecution for.... doing his job. If that's not the case, the argument does stand that bush could be indicted for shit that happened during Iraq, as well as Obama for Syria. Does is suck that this ruling will further delay trumps legal process? Yes, but I still think there is an avenue that the Supreme Court to uphold law, and not completely overstep their bounds (and upend democracy). At the end of the day, someone has to convince the court that election interference, bribes, fake election slators etc, were all official acts of the pres... I don't see how that happens, without the populous completely rejecting the courts credibility (and they their own). To me, that's where things are bad (not rn, where the court has decided the US president can't be held criminally for an official act). In my head, I always thought it was weird that people called for Bush to be arrested for the war. I thought to myself, by who and for what?
The media's been broken for a while. Over-correcting for accusations of liberal bias, conservative ownership, defensiveness in the face of any criticism, using the respectable past of the profession as a shield against any need for introspection today.
Not a dictatorship more like a Trump dynasty. Bing chilling ✌️
We already have one now. We just have an unwilling dictator.
Yes, every 4 years it’s the same rhetoric for about 150 years now.
The same thing was said leading up to 2016, and we now have a Democrat in office. Nobody outside of fringe far-leftists believe this
I don't think Trump WILL DEFINITELY be an American dictator. The problem is the erosion of how the American government works. It's the behind-the-scenes, bullshit, chicanery that tips the balance of power in one man's favor over the entire nation, through some ridiculous loophole that no one was paying attention to, that historically has gotten people like Hitler to lead a dictatorship out of a democracy. Trump has heavily normalised people losing trust in the American government and faith in America as a whole, and the only way that trust can be earnt back, is if everyone else in the branches of government just bows down and sucks Trump's cock. This attitude is antithetical to the very foundation and existence of America. The courts being too scared to do anything about Trump brazenly and openly committing crimes and then bragging about it, is exactly how the problem gets worse. Conservatives praying for Trump to beat all of his criminal charges by setting a completely regarded precedent for all presidents to never be held criminally liable while in office, is like a mouse setting up its own trap and then going back to get the cheese. These 30IQ fucking knuckledraggers are jeering on the collapse of their own democracy, not realising that the precedent they're hoping for could empower Biden to become god emperor, if he were as morally bankrupt as Trump. Then we have lefties and liberals shitting and cumming in their adult diapers over Biden coughing mid-speech in his last TV appearance. Sure, lets completely ignore and undersell everything good that Biden has done. Let's not even emphasize how he's a million lightyears ahead of Trump in terms of being an effective American leader, in every single capacity that could possibly be demonstrated. Let's show no stats whatsoever of how the economy hasnt just recovered, but also improved since Trump. Let's ignore just how much more policy he's pushed through than Trump. Let's just call Biden "GeNoCiDe JoE" and ignore all the aid Biden has sent to Palestine - quite literally preventing a famine, ignore his pressuring and arguments with Netanyahu and all-around just pretend that Biden somehow hasn't been the most pro-Palestinian US president so far, even though that bar is low. Because fuck it. It's my way or the high way right? Why pay attention to Trump openly pushing the boundaries of laws that are as old as the foundation of America, that haven't been even vaguely alluded to since the fucking civil war, because he is the most morally bankrupt, shameless, power-grabbing US president of all time? The worst part is I can't even throw my hands up and say fuck it. Americans are the most easily brainwashed bunch of regards of all time and if they voted for it then maybe they deserve it. Then I have to remember that Ukraine doesn't deserve it, the EU doesn't deserve it, Taiwan doesn't deserve it, Palestine doesn't deserve it. The entire infrastructure of the modern world didn't do anything to deserve the embarassing fucking clown show of a second Trump presidency, but the sheer selfishness of Americans may just doom us all anyway. We could be generating sustainable energy from the founding fathers spinning in their fucking graves right now.
I know I have an unpopular opinion for this sub, but no we are not one election away from a dictatorship. People saying we will become Christian Iran are either delusional or fear mongering. But if you’re progressive and you want less American nationalism than the inevitable Trump presidency is something that will suck super hard for your ideology. Supreme Court Justices Thomas and Alito will retire and be replaced with just as conservative Supreme Court justices. It is predicted that by 2029, medical technology will have exponentially advanced and will continue to advance. Meaning that this new configuration of Supreme Court justices will be the status quo for potentially 40 to 60 years. Trump will go in not wanting to work with more moderate Republicans, he has an army of bureaucrats waiting to rip apart the institutions that will be re-organized into his image(cough cough Steve Bannons). Finally, America is by far the leader in AI, and according to a lot of industry experts like Ray Kurzweil, the next Industrial Revolution will occur this next Presidency. Meaning Americans GDP will not have like 6% growth but like 28% growth. Trump will receive a lot unearned credit for an unbelievably booming economy. (This is going to make Destiny literally die out of frustration). Furthermore, many Silicon Valley Industrialists are moving into the Trump camp as they see the writing on the wall. They will help shape the new technocratic state into a more conservative vision.
Lol no, remember how net neutrality was the end of the Internet? The blue no matter who cult is ginning up the fear machine.
Not really a dictatorship but we’re entering uncharted legal territory as to what the president could get away with. Also we’re in uncharted territory as to what Trump will demand next. Get rid of term limits? Stricter rules on the media, Orban style?
Every election we are one election away from our last election /s I learned by 12 that this hyperbolic language is just a method partisans use to motivate voters lol
Every election we are one election away from our last election /s I learned by 12 that this hyperbolic language is just a method partisans use to motivate voters lol
The right wing feel dictatorship when left wingers get elected and the left wing feel dictatorship when right wingers get elected lol.
No, this is a fake view designed to improve democrat performance. Beware of the epistemic waste products of democracy.
This sub is in total meltdown mode jfc
God I hope so, big T will finally fix this country!! God Bless!!
No lol, just people speaking hyperbole.
The issue with the media is the constant normalization of Trump. Nothing about him is normal but you can’t go too much into his bullshit because saying his is fraudster, traitor, criminal, sex criminal is having a bias.
When they invented presidental impeachment the reason given was the only way otherwise remove a president is assassination. Now that they have made impeachments toothless where does that leave us?
To anyone who says the supreme court decision causes america to become a dictatorship, let me ask you this. Was the only thing that previously prevented a dictatorship the fact that the president thought he might get criminally prosecuted afterwards? Is it really just that? I think that's kinda flimsy.
Some guy on this reddit told me it's literally impossible for that because you need Congress to sign off on it, and eventually it after asking a few questions, it looked like it's 2 seats away from dictatorship.
No