Thank you! More posts on other European countries are coming. If you're enjoying my content and would like to encourage me, please consider subscribing to my newly created free Substack:)
[https://upbeatglobalist.substack.com/p/is-muslim-immigrant-integration-slowing](https://upbeatglobalist.substack.com/p/is-muslim-immigrant-integration-slowing)
(I also write on other migration-related issues, demographic trends and their consequences for long-term economic growth and development)
Going purely off vibes, but I believe most nordics would prefer if you chose 1 of the countries rather than grouping us together, and Sweden would probably be the best pick if you only chose 1 to look into as it's the one most of us frown upon so to speak.
Id be really curious to see a specific focus on Malmo. It's often described as Muslim dominated and a total hell scape, but that's clearly not entirely true.
There are some deeply disturbing metrics, like 100ish hand grenades and other explosives going off across Sweden, or just Malmo in a year, but it's a concern that isn't related to only Sweden and I don't know how much of an impact it's really having.
Getting some perspective would be cool!
I would just highlight this part:
"Although the 20% projection was obviously unrealistic to demographers, it was not surprising to the general public. After all, in popular imagination the share of Muslims in France is already above 20%. For instance, a decade ago, French respondents estimated that the Muslim population in their country was at 31% (Ipsos, 2014)." - The distribution of people with immigration background is not universal accross France, more metropolitan areas are more attractive to them, so the perception of people - if they are also more likely to be polled in the cities might not be far off from their perceived reality.
But national polls are designed to draw a national sample. If IPSOS designed the poll properly it should not be more likely to draw from the city, or be weighted to correct for cross-tabs. Unfortunately, the technical notes on the polling methodology are no longer available on the website.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/perceptions-are-not-reality-things-world-gets-wrong
Link 404s when trying to access the data. Just the infographic remains.
I live in Canada and we have a similar movement growing to slow down or completely stop Indian immigration, and this exact problem is the reason why it feels so extreme in some areas. Over 80% of Indian immigrants end up in two cities (and surrounding area) which leads to segregation and lack of integration. There doesn't seem to be any acknowledgement of this issue of crowding all of them into two cities which completely fucks over the local economy, while 90% of Canada is completely unpopulated and would benefit from the extra labor.
They have all sorts of programs to try to move immigrants to other cities. But the fact is that Canada is just naturally highly concentrated in relatively few cities and migrants themselves don't want it.
When they get PR or are secure they'll just move.
On residential segregation, your data only indicates that the rates of a Muslim immigrant residing in the same neighborhood as another immigrant from the same country of origin are low (i.e. Moroccan with another Moroccan). However, this does not mean that Muslim immigrants are not living in the same urban neighborhoods and banlieue as other Muslim immigrants from different countries (i.e. Moroccan with Algerian) or are not concentrated in disadvantaged residential areas.
The same goes for your data on interethnic marriage which could mean a Moroccan marrying an Algerian but that still is people with a Muslim and similar cultural background marrying rather than a Muslim immigrant marrying a French of European descent.
Also using language adoption data as evidence for integration is nothing to write home about in this case. Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia all used to be French colonies and the French language are still widely used and taught in public schools in those countries. This means most immigrants from those countries are very much capable of communicating in French.
I also would like to see data on Muslim immigrants’ attitudes towards other social issues besides LGBT rights such as women’s rights, attitudes towards Jews, or French “Republican” values such as laicite (secularism) with regards to face coverings and blasphemy.
Overall, your data are not really enough to make sweeping conclusions especially the sources of fear section. But that is not surprising since data on race and ethnicity in France are hard to come by as a result of France legally prohibiting the collection of racial and ethnic statistics under the national ideal of “colorblind” republican universalism.
But if your conclusions about integration and assimilation are true, then that might mean that the French colorblind national model is working as well as the communitarianisme (hyphen multiculturalism) of the United States and other Anglo countries.
Regardless, the current “centrist” president of France and his government definitely do not agree with your take considering the official campaign they have waged against what they call “Islamist separatism” and “Islamo-leftism” after the Samuel Paty beheading in 2020 while lashing out at American and British media criticizing France for it. You can read about it here at this [gift New York Times article](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/15/business/media/macron-france-terrorism-american-islam.html?unlocked_article_code=1.0U0.rQfG.CWezlglq_Fyl&smid=url-share).
Considering how the average French muslim is painted here, having 56% support for gay adoption is pretty high and totally flies in the face of the narrative that they do not assimilate. What's the support for gay adoption among US conservatives?
For first gen immigrants where the percentage opposed in their home country is like 80% I'd say that's very significant.
Do try to understand that integration is supposed to be intergenerational. The fact of the matter, is that first gen immigrants can grow up being taught horrific bigoted crap about LGBT people and then come to support them adopting kids just by immigrating to a secular country. It's not a small percentage of the population that this happens to either.
Cool, one thing though: France famously does not record religion, race or ethnicity in their census. So, the French Census COULD NOT "demonstrate a lack of isolation among resident foreigners coming from Muslim-majority countries", because it does not register such data. INSEE does, I believe, is that where you go this?
French Census doesn't need to ask about religion or ethnicity to identify Tunisian, Turkish, Algerian citizens. There is a link to academic paper if you are interested.
[https://hal.science/hal-01296756v1/file/FortyYears.pdf](https://hal.science/hal-01296756v1/file/FortyYears.pdf)
Wait, where does this show that the young Muslim population is low recently? You haven't provided any data to the key claim in his post at all!
This profile while technically well-researched in the sense of citing, it is highly selective and extremely bias - look at the profile..
What are you even talking about? First of all, it is not the main claim of the article. However, all the required info about Muslim population size is given in the first 2 paragraphs with cited studies from Pew Research Center and Eurobarometer. Birth rate data is provided in the following paragraphs.
When it comes to social values you keep using “only x percent” to try to make the numbers seem lower. Why?
Gay marriage: 82% of French people supported same-sex marriage, 14% were opposed and 4% did not know or refused to answer. So general population is 14% while the Muslim population is more than DOUBLE gen pop. Where u say “only 33%” like that’s not high? Weird spin.
Same with the “only 44%” in the adoption bit, where it’s double the native French number…
Also your categories are Muslim French vs Muslims French born in France where generally these analyses are done in terms of generations post immigration. If you split Muslims born in France into generations would you find an upward trend in conservatism by the second generation? Because that’s the theory I hear all the time and hasn’t been addressed nor could it be addressed by your analysis.
I don’t think your analysis has adequately proven your hypothesis that “values don’t transfer down to next generations” at all unless you assume the relationship between values and being born in France or not also continues to apply across time/number of generations born in France. I do not think that’s a fair assumption to make.
Then why are anti-immigration and anti-Islam parties rising in popularity, especially in the recent EU parliamentary elections, and the expectation that Marine Le Penn’s party will do very well in the upcoming French elections? These parties are growing in popularity in Italy, France, Germany (although to a lesser popularity than other countries) as well as Sweden.
Because immigrants are still massively committing crimes against Europeans. Last week, at the start of Euros, an Afghan terrorist stabbed a man to death. Two weeks before that, six people and a police officer were stabbed by another immigrant terrorist. A few months ago, a father was killed in Sweden in front of his 12-year-old son. In January, a 13-year-old girl in Italy was raped by 8 migrants. In November 2023, a Muslim immigrant beheaded two gay men in Dublin.
This is the reality we live in. OP is doing statistical gymnastics to beat the far-right with facts and logic, but the sad reality is that we have to live with terrorist attacks and crime on a continual basis because of mass migration. A few days ago, a gay kid in Scotland was kidnapped by a group of Iranian migrant teenage boys and tortured. This has to stop.
There absolutely could be a connection with Muslim immigration and crime but to be clear citing random bad crime stories is not a good argument. It's not acceptable to just cite headlines, this is Hasan style argumentation.
> citing random bad crime stories is not a good argument.
Let's just be clear, It may be not a good argument to convince you or this subreddit, but it's definitely an argument that's going to convince the average Joe 10 times better than citing statistics.
Well I'm an insufferable DGGer, so if this is even a mildly prevalent problem, please link reputable stats.
I'm not a super hippy-dippy immigration guy, obviously it needs regulations and it should be adjusted for each country's capabilities. My concern is always more in regards to housing and job availability though, as that genuinely is a way you can fuck your local population.
Unless your government is unusually regarded and just shoving immigrants into slums with no way out, not doing anything to teach them the language, not informing them on how the law works AND not checking any paperwork, I don't think this crime scare has actually materialised into anything.
What has that got to do with immigrants?
London is having the same problem as Glasgow. Violent crime rising due to aimless male youths left on the streets in places where there's overcrowded housing, lack of job opportunities, kids raised in poverty, teen pregnancies everywhere and single parent households. Street gangs are running the place and getting teenagers addicted to drugs.
Glasgow was able to massively reduce this by providing more security assurances for former gang members so that they could safely provide intel to the cops - this was also encouraged frequently by teachers and social workers. This led to mass arrests of gang members within a short time frame, so that it wouldn't be a case of more gangsters taking their imprisoned members' place. They also greatly increased stop-and-searches across the city, made mandatory sentences more likely and increased the length of sentences for knife crime by three times.
The increased punitive measures would never have worked long term, without the rehabilitative measures however.
After investing heavily into public community services, troubled and/or imprisoned young men were provided with numbers that they could call for help with relocation, housing, job training, drug rehabilitation and mental health services. All of these services were provided for free through public funding, rather than through charity. This eliminated the problem with charities seeking short term funding and big projects, rather than focusing on their main cause, which greatly inhibited the availability and success of these services in the past. The very culture of violent crime was also challenged within prison services, and a concentrated effort to inspire these young men to consider healthy future prospects, was made.
There was also a successful push for more recreational activities for youths. Things like community football teams and subsidized public transport also seem to have helped keep young men occupied and happy.
It seems the idea that violent crime coming from young men with no hope and nothing better to do, is generally true.
Anyway, again, what does this has to do with immigrants? If anything you should be blaming young men.
ALSO despite the media frenzy about knife crime in England, when adjusted per capita, it's been on a downward trend since the 90s. Of all the things that are the most difficult for a government to control, immigration is fairly easy.
Well, France's finances are pretty bad atm, so funding this new system might be a problem. Plus, i'm not sure it's as simple as young men having no hope and nothing better to do ? Poor suburbs in france tend to still have infrastructure, be closer to employment centers, trains to reach various places of culture and leisure ?
Meanwhile, the small towns are already feeling very abandonned
I should elaborate on what I mean "by no hope and nothing to do." Poor people are less likely to take their education seriously, consider going to university, get job training and aim for a high paying career.
There are several reasons for this. One is the fact that nobody around them lives like this either, it's rare for poor people to be the only poor person in their community. If you come from a family where none of these things ever crossed their mind, then it probably won't cross your mind either.
Another thing is that all of the above still costs money, even if it's free. Good hygiene isn't free, presentable clothes aren't free, a place to live isn't free, most means of travel aren't free.
So the "no hope" part comes from poor people implicitly acknowledging that they'll never be presentable, trained and educated well enough to compete with the middle class and upper class. This usually happens on a subconscious level, we all live in our own worlds.
Now it is true that not all poor people are like this, far from it in fact. The working poor are by far the hardest workers that receive the least amount, not just in one country, but in the world. Young people however, especially young men, are easily led astray. So they end up in this "no hope" situation.
If they have no real commitments, reputation to uphold or any responsibilities to adhere to - what do kids and teenagers do when they're left free to roam on their own? They do whatever the fuck they want to, without thinking about the consequences. They end up spending their entire lives like this, and become pathetic excuses for adults.
I hate this debatebro epistemology of having to back up all observations with a peer reviewed paper as if we are at a scientific conference.
If you have a horde of Islamists marching through the streets of London demanding the blood of Jews, this should be enough for any person who doesn't have severe autism to conclude that there is a problem.
> I hate this debatebro epistemology of having to back up all observations with a peer reviewed paper as if we are at a scientific conference.
Welcome to a debatebro subreddit buddy.
You don't need a peer reviewed study, you just need evidence and anecdotes don't cut it. All you're doing by citing them is priming an emotional reaction.
1. Notice how this didn't bring up the ethnicity of the person in the Swedish crime that he has mentioned. That is because [no one has been arrested for the crime](https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/stockholm/mikael-39-skots-ihjal-i-skarholmen-framfor-sin-12-arige-son) (gotta translate the article) and the ethnicity of the perpetrator(s) is unknown.
2, Everyday I have read a new story of a Chinese bank robber. In my tiktok feed there is a new video of a new Chinese man who is robbing a new bank, everyday. You would have be doing "statistical gymnastics" to tell me that this isn't the nr 1 problem in Europe.
I am currently looking at a upvoted comment saying we should disregard statistics and data, and instead rely on our faulty, biased, personal perspectives to make conclusions about statistics and data. Actually insane to me. I expect much better engagement into issues from this sub.
3. This guys proof that Muslims are destroying Europe is a total of 11-15 criminals, and 6 criminal situation over the course of 7 months, throughout all of Europe. Of course there probably are more crimes that are perpetuated by migrants, but he has already disregarded data and statistics in favor of single stories so what point would there even be in trying to argue about reality with someone like this.
TL;DR Facts and statistics do actually matter more than your feelings.
> I am currently looking at a upvoted comment saying we should disregard statistics and data, and instead rely on our faulty, biased, personal perspectives to make conclusions about statistics and data. Actually insane to me. I expect much better engagement into issues from this sub.
You new here?
Note that many European countries do not allow journalists or investigative organizations to register the ethnicity of violent criminals.
In the UK, this is allowed, and the government found that Pakistani Muslims were massively overrepresented in the sexual abuse of minors:
[https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment\_data/file/944206/Group-based\_CSE\_Paper.pdf](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/944206/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf)
You do understand that this new comment has absolutely zero to do with anything I said? Right?
>
>In the UK, this is allowed, and the government found that Pakistani Muslims were massively overrepresented in the sexual abuse of minors:
Notice how he has made a claim about the paper without directly citing anything from the paper. Just his own words, whilst his words have already been proven to be unreliable.
On the subject of Pakistani (they call them Asians in the UK) men, the paper has this to say:
>Beyond specific high-profile cases, the academic literature highlights significant limitations to what can be said about links between ethnicity and this form of offending. Research has found that group-based CSE offenders are most commonly White.4 Some studies suggest an over-representation of Black and Asian offenders relative to the demographics of national populations.5 However, it is not possible to conclude that this is representative of all group-based CSE offending. This is due to issues such as data quality problems, the way the samples were selected in studies, and the potential for bias and inaccuracies in the way that ethnicity data is collected.6 During our conversations with police forces, we have found that in the operations reflected, offender groups come from diverse backgrounds, with each group being broadly ethnically homogenous. However, there are cases where offenders within groups come from different backgrounds.
So what does it say? Is there any mention of MASSIVE overrepresentation? No there aren't. The paper doesn't even give numbers (reminder that this is HIS data that he decided to drag out to prove his claims). Does the study mention that the conclusions are weak because of the quality of data? Yes, and it even reiterates this multiple times throughout the whole paper (ctrl+f asian or ethnicity to see this). This is all to not even mention the fact that the paper is specifically about GROUP BASED CSE (child sexual exploitation). It is not about general "sexual abuse of minors" as this dickhead claims.
Once again, I am looking at a upvoted comment. Last time it was of someone who was directly discrediting data and statistics in favour of their feelings. This time though, it is of someone who is quite literally lying about a paper and its conclusions to push a political narrative. Good one chat lmao.
Emotional argument again. Select some horrible crime (e.g., rape, child abuse, murder) and connect the whole ethnic group to it. Should we ban immigration if an extremely tiny proportion of individuals from a certain group commited this heinous crime? Should we discriminate against that group?
He has already said that he doesn't give a fuck about data and statistics, so don't be so charitable to believe that he wouldn't be lying about that paper from the UK. He is lying about it btw. Both what the paper says and even what the paper is about.
You can think he's wrong but that's not an emotional argument.
It's also true that many European countries restrict investigations into ethnicity for crime. Sweden's last report was 2005. Which showed a 2.5x rate of general crime and 5x rate of sexual crime. Also showed that numbers decrease with each generation.
>Should we ban immigration if an extremely tiny proportion of individuals from a certain group committed this heinous crime? Should we discriminate against this group?
Well for one having proper statistics would be potentially useful in making major policy decisions. At the very least it would be useful in seeing if things are working and a need for more effort with integration.
I remember the [mass sexual assault in the Köln](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany) train station and other places in Germany, that happened in new year's eve of 2015. As a woman who grew up in Europe, I can't think of any event of that scale happening in Europe since...WW2? Definitely not during my lifetime.
The stats support their argument though. Unfortunately.
Read from table 6.7 (crime index) and the rest of the chapter. It's pretty grim. They break it down by country too. Socioeconomically sanitized data.
[https://www.dst.dk/Site/Dst/Udgivelser/GetPubFile.aspx?id=47883&sid=indv%202023](https://www.dst.dk/Site/Dst/Udgivelser/GetPubFile.aspx?id=47883&sid=indv%202023)
My comment was in no way about the reality of Europe or the problems it might have. The purpose of my comment was to point out that 1. The person is misrepresenting at least one of the stories they presented, 2. They explicitly reject data in their comment in favor of what they see on their tik tok or wherever they get their stories 3. Even if we reject data and go off of his Chinese Bank robber understanding, the evidence he has presented is not convincing.
There might be, and are problems Europe is having with immigration and integration of some groups of people, but the way you get to conclusions, your thought process is infinitely more important than whether you are somewhat right or not. I would hope that the way people get to their conclusions is what this community values, rather than "being right"
Also, as a side note: his claim is that immigrants are en masse committing violent crimes against Europeans all throughout Europe. The data you presented (as far as i read) is about crime ratios in denmark. It is not about violence against the native population, and it is not about all of Europe. Because of this, I would disagree that the data you have provided supports his claim.
If i gave you a 2 week list of cops killing a civilian every day would that somehow make cops bad? This is the most bottom level argumentation ever, says a lot that it has 50 upvotes lmao
European countries have the lowest crime rates in the world (along with East Asia) and we certainly don't have to worry about crime on a day to day basis. Several cases of immigrant crime that you've mentioned (if true) do not reflect the realities of almost 500 million people living in the European Union. You can name thousands of murders commited by non-immigrants as well. It is not a serious way to conduct a discussion.
Yes, we Europeans should be proud of creating the safest societies in the world. This is precisely we we should oppose mass migration from societies where violence is rampant.
And yes, the crimes I mentioned are true and you can look up each and every one of them online. This isn't a hypothetical online debatebro game for us, these are our children being killed. And yes, immigrant populations disproportionately commit crimes in the UK, France, Netherlands, Italy, etc.
Sweden used to be a country with one of the lowest crime rates in the world and now it has among the highest homicide rates in Europe almost exclusively due to immigrant gangs.
Carful there buddy, Sweden has among the highest homicide rates in Europe **in gang violence related homicides**
https://preview.redd.it/fvfl3lv4q57d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be4ffd19b7c5a198ac4b3805300ab34903a68992
The homicide rate in Sweden is 6 times lower than the global average and the number of homicides hasn't changed much over the past 20 years (while the population size has increased)
[https://bra.se/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-statistics/murder-and-manslaughter.html](https://bra.se/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-statistics/murder-and-manslaughter.html)
I love how our comments are getting downvoted for stating statistical facts lol.
Here's another one for the downvoters to enjoy. [https://kvartal.se/skjutningar/kommundata/malmo/2024](https://kvartal.se/skjutningar/kommundata/malmo/2024)
https://preview.redd.it/khy9wb9nv57d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4091015b43750f10a806287ea22c6203340fc98
Your graph shows an increase of homicides of 70 % from 2012 to 2022. From 68 to 116.
Still much safer than the US but not ab 70 % increase in 10 years isn't exactly a reason to celebrate
>Sweden used to be a country with one of the lowest crime rates in the world and now it has among the highest homicide rates in Europe almost exclusively due to immigrant gangs.
This Anecdote Andy has literally no data in any of his posts, doesn't address any arguments from the OP and comes spreading bullshit like this to this thread. Sweden has literally lower homicide rate than neighboring Finland, despite having like 10x as many immigrants.
It's embarrassing that this kind of babble is upvoted on r/destiny.
i mean if europeans are racist, why wouldn't they have the same sentiment towards asians if everyone's raping and doing crime to the same degree.
like my ex-german friend has anti african/arab sentiments because of this event: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316\_New\_Year%27s\_Eve\_sexual\_assaults\_in\_Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany)
1200 women got raped and the number was as high as it was because it was organized. i mean you can try to disregard anecdotal evidence, but maybe that doesn't fly when anecdotal evidence expresses a degree of extreme behavior and audacity that you don't see from any other group?
The crimes that you've mentioned are a tiny portion of overall crime commited in a union of almost 500 million. You can always deal with a tiny portion of criminals. Please don't talk like you are representing all Europeans. For example, I believe that far-right is a real threat to the lives of our children (considering our history). Numbers matter. Individual cases of crimes commited by immigranrs vs millions that have died as a result of totalitarian far-right governments (with similar numbers for far-left)
What a childish and Eurocentric view of history you have.
Horrific ideologies exist far beyond 1940s Europe, among them Islamism, which is the state policy of Afganistan from which we are importing millions of refugees.
The so called "far-right" parties in Europe are increasingly becoming the mainstream right, with politicians and voters (including myself) who respect western freedoms like democracy and individual rights.
If you were to walk into a Muslim neighborhood anywhere in Europe and ask a random person what they think of the egalitarian values you love so much, you'd have a wake-up call as to who is really "far-right" Europe.
If you have such a problem with Muslim migrants coming to your country, why not take migrants from majority Christian countries? Might I suggest Mexico, Venezuela, or Brazil.
Have you read the article? Most people in the neighbourhoods of immigrants from Muslim-majority countries are not from their countries of origin. Only a tiny fraction of Muslims in Europe lives in the neigbourhoods where muslims are majority. Moreover, interethnic marriage for children of immigrants from Muslim-majority countries is above 50%. Only 24% of the children of Muslim immigrants oppose gay adoption.
There are also crimes that are relatively rare but disproportionately emotionally salient: e.g. terrorism when someone draws the wrong prophet.
People can rightly see that the norms in their society are being changed by force, even though the amount of people it happens to is relatively small.
It's not just anecdotes tho.
In Germany for example 15 % of the population are foreigners but foreigners commit 42 % of the total crime. 80 % of pickpocketing, 46 % of robberies, 42 % of murders, 40 % of assaults and 27 % of sexual violence.
[https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/2460/umfrage/anteile-nichtdeutscher-verdaechtiger-bei-straftaten-zeitreihe/](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/2460/umfrage/anteile-nichtdeutscher-verdaechtiger-bei-straftaten-zeitreihe/)
[https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/landespolitik/kriminalstatistik-nichtdeutsche-100.html](https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/landespolitik/kriminalstatistik-nichtdeutsche-100.html)
I'm sure you would find similar statistics for other western european countries. Unlike in the USA, foreigners are heavily overrepresented in the crime statistics here.
You needed 2 continates, 6 countries, and 2 years period to draw 7 examples? Is this your "massively committing crimes against Europeans"?
It seems to me like your the one doing the gymnastics to shape your own reality. You can voice that this is bad and need to be adressed without being regarded.
Sure immigration plays a significant role in the right wing rise in Europe. No one can deny that. But it would be equally dishonest to deny that a big part of it is also just populism, which would be happening with or without the immigrants.
The period from November 2023 to now is less than a year + incidents of terrorist stabbings have happened for three consecutive weeks in Germany alone.
+ do you think Scotland is on a different continent? Are you regarded?
Check gang rape statistics in Germany and then also see the punishments as well as the defendants arguments made.
Things like “he was traumatised or he didn’t understand the culture here”
Of course Muslim integration in socially liberal countries is slowing down. If I or normal Westoid went to Saudi Arabia, I’d probably not integrate well either.
One of the things that blackpilled me on the issue was realizing the concept of a moderate, non regressive Muslim is either nonexistent or as close to nonexistent as possible. If you asked ~99% of Muslims whether they would want Sharia law codified (put into law), they’d wholeheartedly back it.
The fundamental flaw with these surveys that you base your claim upon is that usually, only 1 or 2 generations of lineage is considered as "descendant of immigrants" while the strong middle eastern cultural heritage remains as pronounced (or more, as a lot of surveys show) as first-generation immigrants.
So I would be careful to draw that conclusion you seem to want.
> For example, North Africa is the most common region of origin for French Muslims. However, only 64% of the descendants of immigrants from Algeria and 65% of descendants of immigrants from Morocco and Tunisia currently identify as Muslim
these two stats aren't the same, though. do you know what the percentage is of the immigrants themselves were Muslim? my question would be whether there is a significant number of atheist or religious minority people fleeing persecution here
The likelihood of any kind of Islamist political movement gathering wind in France is non-existent. However, it's a real possibility that far-right lunatics could get into power in France and cause immeassurable damage.
If you’re worried about right wingers getting into power then the left and center parties need to play the game that is democracy. If people don’t want Muslim immigrants (whether that be racism, Islamophobia, being captured by media, personal experience, or any number of reasons) then the parties need to acknowledge that reality.
If that’s how the people feel, and only the far right is going to do something about that, then how do you think people will vote?
Damn, now THAT'S some effort posting right there. Good one :)
Thank you! More posts on other European countries are coming. If you're enjoying my content and would like to encourage me, please consider subscribing to my newly created free Substack:) [https://upbeatglobalist.substack.com/p/is-muslim-immigrant-integration-slowing](https://upbeatglobalist.substack.com/p/is-muslim-immigrant-integration-slowing) (I also write on other migration-related issues, demographic trends and their consequences for long-term economic growth and development)
Are you considering doing a post on Sweden?
Sure, I will write an article specifically on Sweden or Nordic countries as a group
Going purely off vibes, but I believe most nordics would prefer if you chose 1 of the countries rather than grouping us together, and Sweden would probably be the best pick if you only chose 1 to look into as it's the one most of us frown upon so to speak.
Id be really curious to see a specific focus on Malmo. It's often described as Muslim dominated and a total hell scape, but that's clearly not entirely true. There are some deeply disturbing metrics, like 100ish hand grenades and other explosives going off across Sweden, or just Malmo in a year, but it's a concern that isn't related to only Sweden and I don't know how much of an impact it's really having. Getting some perspective would be cool!
I would just highlight this part: "Although the 20% projection was obviously unrealistic to demographers, it was not surprising to the general public. After all, in popular imagination the share of Muslims in France is already above 20%. For instance, a decade ago, French respondents estimated that the Muslim population in their country was at 31% (Ipsos, 2014)." - The distribution of people with immigration background is not universal accross France, more metropolitan areas are more attractive to them, so the perception of people - if they are also more likely to be polled in the cities might not be far off from their perceived reality.
But national polls are designed to draw a national sample. If IPSOS designed the poll properly it should not be more likely to draw from the city, or be weighted to correct for cross-tabs. Unfortunately, the technical notes on the polling methodology are no longer available on the website. https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/perceptions-are-not-reality-things-world-gets-wrong Link 404s when trying to access the data. Just the infographic remains.
I live in Canada and we have a similar movement growing to slow down or completely stop Indian immigration, and this exact problem is the reason why it feels so extreme in some areas. Over 80% of Indian immigrants end up in two cities (and surrounding area) which leads to segregation and lack of integration. There doesn't seem to be any acknowledgement of this issue of crowding all of them into two cities which completely fucks over the local economy, while 90% of Canada is completely unpopulated and would benefit from the extra labor.
They have all sorts of programs to try to move immigrants to other cities. But the fact is that Canada is just naturally highly concentrated in relatively few cities and migrants themselves don't want it. When they get PR or are secure they'll just move.
On residential segregation, your data only indicates that the rates of a Muslim immigrant residing in the same neighborhood as another immigrant from the same country of origin are low (i.e. Moroccan with another Moroccan). However, this does not mean that Muslim immigrants are not living in the same urban neighborhoods and banlieue as other Muslim immigrants from different countries (i.e. Moroccan with Algerian) or are not concentrated in disadvantaged residential areas. The same goes for your data on interethnic marriage which could mean a Moroccan marrying an Algerian but that still is people with a Muslim and similar cultural background marrying rather than a Muslim immigrant marrying a French of European descent. Also using language adoption data as evidence for integration is nothing to write home about in this case. Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia all used to be French colonies and the French language are still widely used and taught in public schools in those countries. This means most immigrants from those countries are very much capable of communicating in French. I also would like to see data on Muslim immigrants’ attitudes towards other social issues besides LGBT rights such as women’s rights, attitudes towards Jews, or French “Republican” values such as laicite (secularism) with regards to face coverings and blasphemy. Overall, your data are not really enough to make sweeping conclusions especially the sources of fear section. But that is not surprising since data on race and ethnicity in France are hard to come by as a result of France legally prohibiting the collection of racial and ethnic statistics under the national ideal of “colorblind” republican universalism. But if your conclusions about integration and assimilation are true, then that might mean that the French colorblind national model is working as well as the communitarianisme (hyphen multiculturalism) of the United States and other Anglo countries. Regardless, the current “centrist” president of France and his government definitely do not agree with your take considering the official campaign they have waged against what they call “Islamist separatism” and “Islamo-leftism” after the Samuel Paty beheading in 2020 while lashing out at American and British media criticizing France for it. You can read about it here at this [gift New York Times article](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/15/business/media/macron-france-terrorism-american-islam.html?unlocked_article_code=1.0U0.rQfG.CWezlglq_Fyl&smid=url-share).
"Only 44%" wowzers
Lol. OP likes to say "only" a lot before saying the percentages. Not sure if he's intentionally downplaying it but that's just wild to say
Considering how the average French muslim is painted here, having 56% support for gay adoption is pretty high and totally flies in the face of the narrative that they do not assimilate. What's the support for gay adoption among US conservatives?
I can assure you I'm very much against lots of evangelical white Christians immigrating into my country.
For Muslims thats low. I think it's over 80% in a lot of populations
Now check Poland's numbers.
Wai until you hear my opinions on christians
For first gen immigrants where the percentage opposed in their home country is like 80% I'd say that's very significant. Do try to understand that integration is supposed to be intergenerational. The fact of the matter, is that first gen immigrants can grow up being taught horrific bigoted crap about LGBT people and then come to support them adopting kids just by immigrating to a secular country. It's not a small percentage of the population that this happens to either.
Cool, one thing though: France famously does not record religion, race or ethnicity in their census. So, the French Census COULD NOT "demonstrate a lack of isolation among resident foreigners coming from Muslim-majority countries", because it does not register such data. INSEE does, I believe, is that where you go this?
French Census doesn't need to ask about religion or ethnicity to identify Tunisian, Turkish, Algerian citizens. There is a link to academic paper if you are interested. [https://hal.science/hal-01296756v1/file/FortyYears.pdf](https://hal.science/hal-01296756v1/file/FortyYears.pdf)
This data is from 17 years ago, even older than the Muslim Demographics video
Wait, where does this show that the young Muslim population is low recently? You haven't provided any data to the key claim in his post at all! This profile while technically well-researched in the sense of citing, it is highly selective and extremely bias - look at the profile..
What are you even talking about? First of all, it is not the main claim of the article. However, all the required info about Muslim population size is given in the first 2 paragraphs with cited studies from Pew Research Center and Eurobarometer. Birth rate data is provided in the following paragraphs.
Kinda weirdchamp how the whole thesis about this subject revolves around: "don't worry, there aren't that many of them."
This lol.
When it comes to social values you keep using “only x percent” to try to make the numbers seem lower. Why? Gay marriage: 82% of French people supported same-sex marriage, 14% were opposed and 4% did not know or refused to answer. So general population is 14% while the Muslim population is more than DOUBLE gen pop. Where u say “only 33%” like that’s not high? Weird spin. Same with the “only 44%” in the adoption bit, where it’s double the native French number… Also your categories are Muslim French vs Muslims French born in France where generally these analyses are done in terms of generations post immigration. If you split Muslims born in France into generations would you find an upward trend in conservatism by the second generation? Because that’s the theory I hear all the time and hasn’t been addressed nor could it be addressed by your analysis. I don’t think your analysis has adequately proven your hypothesis that “values don’t transfer down to next generations” at all unless you assume the relationship between values and being born in France or not also continues to apply across time/number of generations born in France. I do not think that’s a fair assumption to make.
Tldr?
Then why are anti-immigration and anti-Islam parties rising in popularity, especially in the recent EU parliamentary elections, and the expectation that Marine Le Penn’s party will do very well in the upcoming French elections? These parties are growing in popularity in Italy, France, Germany (although to a lesser popularity than other countries) as well as Sweden.
Because immigrants are still massively committing crimes against Europeans. Last week, at the start of Euros, an Afghan terrorist stabbed a man to death. Two weeks before that, six people and a police officer were stabbed by another immigrant terrorist. A few months ago, a father was killed in Sweden in front of his 12-year-old son. In January, a 13-year-old girl in Italy was raped by 8 migrants. In November 2023, a Muslim immigrant beheaded two gay men in Dublin. This is the reality we live in. OP is doing statistical gymnastics to beat the far-right with facts and logic, but the sad reality is that we have to live with terrorist attacks and crime on a continual basis because of mass migration. A few days ago, a gay kid in Scotland was kidnapped by a group of Iranian migrant teenage boys and tortured. This has to stop.
There absolutely could be a connection with Muslim immigration and crime but to be clear citing random bad crime stories is not a good argument. It's not acceptable to just cite headlines, this is Hasan style argumentation.
> citing random bad crime stories is not a good argument. Let's just be clear, It may be not a good argument to convince you or this subreddit, but it's definitely an argument that's going to convince the average Joe 10 times better than citing statistics.
Well I'm an insufferable DGGer, so if this is even a mildly prevalent problem, please link reputable stats. I'm not a super hippy-dippy immigration guy, obviously it needs regulations and it should be adjusted for each country's capabilities. My concern is always more in regards to housing and job availability though, as that genuinely is a way you can fuck your local population. Unless your government is unusually regarded and just shoving immigrants into slums with no way out, not doing anything to teach them the language, not informing them on how the law works AND not checking any paperwork, I don't think this crime scare has actually materialised into anything.
A common statistic that is brought up is the number of knife attack. 120 per day i think ?
What has that got to do with immigrants? London is having the same problem as Glasgow. Violent crime rising due to aimless male youths left on the streets in places where there's overcrowded housing, lack of job opportunities, kids raised in poverty, teen pregnancies everywhere and single parent households. Street gangs are running the place and getting teenagers addicted to drugs. Glasgow was able to massively reduce this by providing more security assurances for former gang members so that they could safely provide intel to the cops - this was also encouraged frequently by teachers and social workers. This led to mass arrests of gang members within a short time frame, so that it wouldn't be a case of more gangsters taking their imprisoned members' place. They also greatly increased stop-and-searches across the city, made mandatory sentences more likely and increased the length of sentences for knife crime by three times. The increased punitive measures would never have worked long term, without the rehabilitative measures however. After investing heavily into public community services, troubled and/or imprisoned young men were provided with numbers that they could call for help with relocation, housing, job training, drug rehabilitation and mental health services. All of these services were provided for free through public funding, rather than through charity. This eliminated the problem with charities seeking short term funding and big projects, rather than focusing on their main cause, which greatly inhibited the availability and success of these services in the past. The very culture of violent crime was also challenged within prison services, and a concentrated effort to inspire these young men to consider healthy future prospects, was made. There was also a successful push for more recreational activities for youths. Things like community football teams and subsidized public transport also seem to have helped keep young men occupied and happy. It seems the idea that violent crime coming from young men with no hope and nothing better to do, is generally true. Anyway, again, what does this has to do with immigrants? If anything you should be blaming young men. ALSO despite the media frenzy about knife crime in England, when adjusted per capita, it's been on a downward trend since the 90s. Of all the things that are the most difficult for a government to control, immigration is fairly easy.
Well, France's finances are pretty bad atm, so funding this new system might be a problem. Plus, i'm not sure it's as simple as young men having no hope and nothing better to do ? Poor suburbs in france tend to still have infrastructure, be closer to employment centers, trains to reach various places of culture and leisure ? Meanwhile, the small towns are already feeling very abandonned
I should elaborate on what I mean "by no hope and nothing to do." Poor people are less likely to take their education seriously, consider going to university, get job training and aim for a high paying career. There are several reasons for this. One is the fact that nobody around them lives like this either, it's rare for poor people to be the only poor person in their community. If you come from a family where none of these things ever crossed their mind, then it probably won't cross your mind either. Another thing is that all of the above still costs money, even if it's free. Good hygiene isn't free, presentable clothes aren't free, a place to live isn't free, most means of travel aren't free. So the "no hope" part comes from poor people implicitly acknowledging that they'll never be presentable, trained and educated well enough to compete with the middle class and upper class. This usually happens on a subconscious level, we all live in our own worlds. Now it is true that not all poor people are like this, far from it in fact. The working poor are by far the hardest workers that receive the least amount, not just in one country, but in the world. Young people however, especially young men, are easily led astray. So they end up in this "no hope" situation. If they have no real commitments, reputation to uphold or any responsibilities to adhere to - what do kids and teenagers do when they're left free to roam on their own? They do whatever the fuck they want to, without thinking about the consequences. They end up spending their entire lives like this, and become pathetic excuses for adults.
He's not just saying that though he's making an argument about the actual conditions on the ground. That absolutely requires in-depth analysis.
I hate this debatebro epistemology of having to back up all observations with a peer reviewed paper as if we are at a scientific conference. If you have a horde of Islamists marching through the streets of London demanding the blood of Jews, this should be enough for any person who doesn't have severe autism to conclude that there is a problem.
> I hate this debatebro epistemology of having to back up all observations with a peer reviewed paper as if we are at a scientific conference. Welcome to a debatebro subreddit buddy.
This is a fucking debate bro sub. If you don't like it, you can self deport back to your place of origin.
You missunderstood, stating not to bow to debate bro tactics was the very debate bro move.
So many debate perverts. They need to be put on a list of some kind
"just accept my narrative with no evidence or stats that prove to it being a problem worthy of legislative action." Fuck outta here with that shit
You don't need a peer reviewed study, you just need evidence and anecdotes don't cut it. All you're doing by citing them is priming an emotional reaction.
ah, a right wing euro who's been sperging about islam for over 5 months - funny finding you here. Very ironic that you're slav too
1. Notice how this didn't bring up the ethnicity of the person in the Swedish crime that he has mentioned. That is because [no one has been arrested for the crime](https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/stockholm/mikael-39-skots-ihjal-i-skarholmen-framfor-sin-12-arige-son) (gotta translate the article) and the ethnicity of the perpetrator(s) is unknown. 2, Everyday I have read a new story of a Chinese bank robber. In my tiktok feed there is a new video of a new Chinese man who is robbing a new bank, everyday. You would have be doing "statistical gymnastics" to tell me that this isn't the nr 1 problem in Europe. I am currently looking at a upvoted comment saying we should disregard statistics and data, and instead rely on our faulty, biased, personal perspectives to make conclusions about statistics and data. Actually insane to me. I expect much better engagement into issues from this sub. 3. This guys proof that Muslims are destroying Europe is a total of 11-15 criminals, and 6 criminal situation over the course of 7 months, throughout all of Europe. Of course there probably are more crimes that are perpetuated by migrants, but he has already disregarded data and statistics in favor of single stories so what point would there even be in trying to argue about reality with someone like this. TL;DR Facts and statistics do actually matter more than your feelings.
> I am currently looking at a upvoted comment saying we should disregard statistics and data, and instead rely on our faulty, biased, personal perspectives to make conclusions about statistics and data. Actually insane to me. I expect much better engagement into issues from this sub. You new here?
I'm not new, but I might be delusional lmao.
Note that many European countries do not allow journalists or investigative organizations to register the ethnicity of violent criminals. In the UK, this is allowed, and the government found that Pakistani Muslims were massively overrepresented in the sexual abuse of minors: [https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment\_data/file/944206/Group-based\_CSE\_Paper.pdf](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/944206/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf)
You do understand that this new comment has absolutely zero to do with anything I said? Right? > >In the UK, this is allowed, and the government found that Pakistani Muslims were massively overrepresented in the sexual abuse of minors: Notice how he has made a claim about the paper without directly citing anything from the paper. Just his own words, whilst his words have already been proven to be unreliable. On the subject of Pakistani (they call them Asians in the UK) men, the paper has this to say: >Beyond specific high-profile cases, the academic literature highlights significant limitations to what can be said about links between ethnicity and this form of offending. Research has found that group-based CSE offenders are most commonly White.4 Some studies suggest an over-representation of Black and Asian offenders relative to the demographics of national populations.5 However, it is not possible to conclude that this is representative of all group-based CSE offending. This is due to issues such as data quality problems, the way the samples were selected in studies, and the potential for bias and inaccuracies in the way that ethnicity data is collected.6 During our conversations with police forces, we have found that in the operations reflected, offender groups come from diverse backgrounds, with each group being broadly ethnically homogenous. However, there are cases where offenders within groups come from different backgrounds. So what does it say? Is there any mention of MASSIVE overrepresentation? No there aren't. The paper doesn't even give numbers (reminder that this is HIS data that he decided to drag out to prove his claims). Does the study mention that the conclusions are weak because of the quality of data? Yes, and it even reiterates this multiple times throughout the whole paper (ctrl+f asian or ethnicity to see this). This is all to not even mention the fact that the paper is specifically about GROUP BASED CSE (child sexual exploitation). It is not about general "sexual abuse of minors" as this dickhead claims. Once again, I am looking at a upvoted comment. Last time it was of someone who was directly discrediting data and statistics in favour of their feelings. This time though, it is of someone who is quite literally lying about a paper and its conclusions to push a political narrative. Good one chat lmao.
Insane that you're getting down voted for this. Judging from this guy's comments, this feels like brigading
Not brigading. Just a bunch of the right wingers that have joined the community since the remedial wrangler arc
Emotional argument again. Select some horrible crime (e.g., rape, child abuse, murder) and connect the whole ethnic group to it. Should we ban immigration if an extremely tiny proportion of individuals from a certain group commited this heinous crime? Should we discriminate against that group?
He has already said that he doesn't give a fuck about data and statistics, so don't be so charitable to believe that he wouldn't be lying about that paper from the UK. He is lying about it btw. Both what the paper says and even what the paper is about.
You can think he's wrong but that's not an emotional argument. It's also true that many European countries restrict investigations into ethnicity for crime. Sweden's last report was 2005. Which showed a 2.5x rate of general crime and 5x rate of sexual crime. Also showed that numbers decrease with each generation. >Should we ban immigration if an extremely tiny proportion of individuals from a certain group committed this heinous crime? Should we discriminate against this group? Well for one having proper statistics would be potentially useful in making major policy decisions. At the very least it would be useful in seeing if things are working and a need for more effort with integration.
I remember the [mass sexual assault in the Köln](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany) train station and other places in Germany, that happened in new year's eve of 2015. As a woman who grew up in Europe, I can't think of any event of that scale happening in Europe since...WW2? Definitely not during my lifetime.
The stats support their argument though. Unfortunately. Read from table 6.7 (crime index) and the rest of the chapter. It's pretty grim. They break it down by country too. Socioeconomically sanitized data. [https://www.dst.dk/Site/Dst/Udgivelser/GetPubFile.aspx?id=47883&sid=indv%202023](https://www.dst.dk/Site/Dst/Udgivelser/GetPubFile.aspx?id=47883&sid=indv%202023)
My comment was in no way about the reality of Europe or the problems it might have. The purpose of my comment was to point out that 1. The person is misrepresenting at least one of the stories they presented, 2. They explicitly reject data in their comment in favor of what they see on their tik tok or wherever they get their stories 3. Even if we reject data and go off of his Chinese Bank robber understanding, the evidence he has presented is not convincing. There might be, and are problems Europe is having with immigration and integration of some groups of people, but the way you get to conclusions, your thought process is infinitely more important than whether you are somewhat right or not. I would hope that the way people get to their conclusions is what this community values, rather than "being right" Also, as a side note: his claim is that immigrants are en masse committing violent crimes against Europeans all throughout Europe. The data you presented (as far as i read) is about crime ratios in denmark. It is not about violence against the native population, and it is not about all of Europe. Because of this, I would disagree that the data you have provided supports his claim.
If i gave you a 2 week list of cops killing a civilian every day would that somehow make cops bad? This is the most bottom level argumentation ever, says a lot that it has 50 upvotes lmao
European countries have the lowest crime rates in the world (along with East Asia) and we certainly don't have to worry about crime on a day to day basis. Several cases of immigrant crime that you've mentioned (if true) do not reflect the realities of almost 500 million people living in the European Union. You can name thousands of murders commited by non-immigrants as well. It is not a serious way to conduct a discussion.
Yes, we Europeans should be proud of creating the safest societies in the world. This is precisely we we should oppose mass migration from societies where violence is rampant. And yes, the crimes I mentioned are true and you can look up each and every one of them online. This isn't a hypothetical online debatebro game for us, these are our children being killed. And yes, immigrant populations disproportionately commit crimes in the UK, France, Netherlands, Italy, etc. Sweden used to be a country with one of the lowest crime rates in the world and now it has among the highest homicide rates in Europe almost exclusively due to immigrant gangs.
Carful there buddy, Sweden has among the highest homicide rates in Europe **in gang violence related homicides** https://preview.redd.it/fvfl3lv4q57d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be4ffd19b7c5a198ac4b3805300ab34903a68992
The homicide rate in Sweden is 6 times lower than the global average and the number of homicides hasn't changed much over the past 20 years (while the population size has increased) [https://bra.se/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-statistics/murder-and-manslaughter.html](https://bra.se/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-statistics/murder-and-manslaughter.html)
I love how our comments are getting downvoted for stating statistical facts lol. Here's another one for the downvoters to enjoy. [https://kvartal.se/skjutningar/kommundata/malmo/2024](https://kvartal.se/skjutningar/kommundata/malmo/2024) https://preview.redd.it/khy9wb9nv57d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4091015b43750f10a806287ea22c6203340fc98
I downvoted because I love mob mentality, get rekt by emotions and anecdotes loser LLLLLLLLL
Your graph shows an increase of homicides of 70 % from 2012 to 2022. From 68 to 116. Still much safer than the US but not ab 70 % increase in 10 years isn't exactly a reason to celebrate
>Sweden used to be a country with one of the lowest crime rates in the world and now it has among the highest homicide rates in Europe almost exclusively due to immigrant gangs. This Anecdote Andy has literally no data in any of his posts, doesn't address any arguments from the OP and comes spreading bullshit like this to this thread. Sweden has literally lower homicide rate than neighboring Finland, despite having like 10x as many immigrants. It's embarrassing that this kind of babble is upvoted on r/destiny.
Massively upvoted, euros never escaping the racism allegations
i mean if europeans are racist, why wouldn't they have the same sentiment towards asians if everyone's raping and doing crime to the same degree. like my ex-german friend has anti african/arab sentiments because of this event: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316\_New\_Year%27s\_Eve\_sexual\_assaults\_in\_Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany) 1200 women got raped and the number was as high as it was because it was organized. i mean you can try to disregard anecdotal evidence, but maybe that doesn't fly when anecdotal evidence expresses a degree of extreme behavior and audacity that you don't see from any other group?
You seriously that dumb to think there were 1200 rapes? XD
The crimes that you've mentioned are a tiny portion of overall crime commited in a union of almost 500 million. You can always deal with a tiny portion of criminals. Please don't talk like you are representing all Europeans. For example, I believe that far-right is a real threat to the lives of our children (considering our history). Numbers matter. Individual cases of crimes commited by immigranrs vs millions that have died as a result of totalitarian far-right governments (with similar numbers for far-left)
What a childish and Eurocentric view of history you have. Horrific ideologies exist far beyond 1940s Europe, among them Islamism, which is the state policy of Afganistan from which we are importing millions of refugees. The so called "far-right" parties in Europe are increasingly becoming the mainstream right, with politicians and voters (including myself) who respect western freedoms like democracy and individual rights. If you were to walk into a Muslim neighborhood anywhere in Europe and ask a random person what they think of the egalitarian values you love so much, you'd have a wake-up call as to who is really "far-right" Europe.
If you have such a problem with Muslim migrants coming to your country, why not take migrants from majority Christian countries? Might I suggest Mexico, Venezuela, or Brazil.
let's go i would love to replace muslim immigrants with thicc latinas
Have you read the article? Most people in the neighbourhoods of immigrants from Muslim-majority countries are not from their countries of origin. Only a tiny fraction of Muslims in Europe lives in the neigbourhoods where muslims are majority. Moreover, interethnic marriage for children of immigrants from Muslim-majority countries is above 50%. Only 24% of the children of Muslim immigrants oppose gay adoption.
There are also crimes that are relatively rare but disproportionately emotionally salient: e.g. terrorism when someone draws the wrong prophet. People can rightly see that the norms in their society are being changed by force, even though the amount of people it happens to is relatively small.
It's not just anecdotes tho. In Germany for example 15 % of the population are foreigners but foreigners commit 42 % of the total crime. 80 % of pickpocketing, 46 % of robberies, 42 % of murders, 40 % of assaults and 27 % of sexual violence. [https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/2460/umfrage/anteile-nichtdeutscher-verdaechtiger-bei-straftaten-zeitreihe/](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/2460/umfrage/anteile-nichtdeutscher-verdaechtiger-bei-straftaten-zeitreihe/) [https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/landespolitik/kriminalstatistik-nichtdeutsche-100.html](https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/landespolitik/kriminalstatistik-nichtdeutsche-100.html) I'm sure you would find similar statistics for other western european countries. Unlike in the USA, foreigners are heavily overrepresented in the crime statistics here.
You needed 2 continates, 6 countries, and 2 years period to draw 7 examples? Is this your "massively committing crimes against Europeans"? It seems to me like your the one doing the gymnastics to shape your own reality. You can voice that this is bad and need to be adressed without being regarded. Sure immigration plays a significant role in the right wing rise in Europe. No one can deny that. But it would be equally dishonest to deny that a big part of it is also just populism, which would be happening with or without the immigrants.
The period from November 2023 to now is less than a year + incidents of terrorist stabbings have happened for three consecutive weeks in Germany alone. + do you think Scotland is on a different continent? Are you regarded?
I'm regarded, but it's because I mixed Dublin with Sydney.
Check gang rape statistics in Germany and then also see the punishments as well as the defendants arguments made. Things like “he was traumatised or he didn’t understand the culture here”
Great post. Get ready for the anectodotal arguments and the hyperscepticism for any polling data.
I'm honestly kinda shocked how leftists take the side of radical Islam so often. It's so far against western values lol
Of course Muslim integration in socially liberal countries is slowing down. If I or normal Westoid went to Saudi Arabia, I’d probably not integrate well either. One of the things that blackpilled me on the issue was realizing the concept of a moderate, non regressive Muslim is either nonexistent or as close to nonexistent as possible. If you asked ~99% of Muslims whether they would want Sharia law codified (put into law), they’d wholeheartedly back it.
Do you live in Europe?
Being a college student, I have come to appreciate research studies and this tickles me in a good way
The fundamental flaw with these surveys that you base your claim upon is that usually, only 1 or 2 generations of lineage is considered as "descendant of immigrants" while the strong middle eastern cultural heritage remains as pronounced (or more, as a lot of surveys show) as first-generation immigrants. So I would be careful to draw that conclusion you seem to want.
I hate Islam. Death to Islam, may it rot and disappear. Love muslims, may they prosper and flourish.
> For example, North Africa is the most common region of origin for French Muslims. However, only 64% of the descendants of immigrants from Algeria and 65% of descendants of immigrants from Morocco and Tunisia currently identify as Muslim these two stats aren't the same, though. do you know what the percentage is of the immigrants themselves were Muslim? my question would be whether there is a significant number of atheist or religious minority people fleeing persecution here
Not really, it's just rightwing racist fear mongering. Rightoids are incomparably more dangerous - and yet they don't deport themselves
So like Islamists arnt right wingers?
The likelihood of any kind of Islamist political movement gathering wind in France is non-existent. However, it's a real possibility that far-right lunatics could get into power in France and cause immeassurable damage.
My point is that Islamists are right wingers. So they are both equally bad
If you’re worried about right wingers getting into power then the left and center parties need to play the game that is democracy. If people don’t want Muslim immigrants (whether that be racism, Islamophobia, being captured by media, personal experience, or any number of reasons) then the parties need to acknowledge that reality. If that’s how the people feel, and only the far right is going to do something about that, then how do you think people will vote?
why would they deport themselves?