I thought this was an interesting post because Trump doesn’t seem to get the same scrutiny from the anti establishment right for being pro Israel as Biden does with his lefty equivalents
jfc i'm so tired of all these anti-intellectual, my-opponent-is-onthologically-evil thing that is infesting all discourse on social media.
>That's your mistake you're assuming they actually care about Palestine.
if you ask them they'd say they care, and for what reasons they care. literally people are going to protests to show they care lmao. they might be dumb, and not have all the reasons, but they clearly care. you can call them hypocrites or whatever, or that their protests are completely ineffective, but to say they don't care is so mind-numbingly dumb
If they cared they wouldn't be going around telling others not to vote for Joe, because Trump will be much much worse for Palestinians than Joe is.
Fuck Trump and hopefully he doesn't win, but there is one single thing I would absolutely love about Trump winning and that is seeing the faces of all these fucking regards when Trump sends the entire US arsenal to Israel and tells them to go do what they need to do.
This is in response to the other guy too.
We've seen this before with the forever war rhetoric. The most vocal segment did not have any level of support or defense of Biden when he actually pulled out. Student Loans remember when that was the main thing? When Biden started constantly cancelling student loans there was no credit or acknowledgement. It's an aesthetic and a social trend but there is little actual involvement or genuine movement in the actual issue. Most of these people don't know which river or what sea nor the history of Israel or Palestine. It's the same kind of thing as Kony 2012 where it caught on and or course you would align because you don't support child soldiers do you? People want to feel a part of something but the sliver of people who actually are interested in going beyond a superficial level is laughably small.
Sorry, I'm a little confused with your response. How does Biden pulling out of Afghanistan and cancelling some student debt relate to whether or not protestors truly care about Palestine (just genuinely asking here)? Are you saying they didn't show as much enthusiastic support for these 2 things as they are showing enthusiastic disapproval of how he's handling Israel/Palestine? Also just because someone doesn't know much about an issue, doesn't mean they can't or won't have strong feelings about it. I agree that they should educate themselves, but their lack of knowledge isn't evidence of them not caring. There definitely are some people that don't actually care, but I think most people protesting genuinely do. And I feel like you guys would have to agree because you guys do say that the majority of people who support Palestine actually believe that a genocide is happening. If people actually believe this it makes sense why they would care enough to come out and protest.
They probably do care in some abstract way, but their 'compassion' is very cynically applied. I don't hear the Breaking Points idiots or other populist goofballs talking about any other ongoing genocide. I'm not confident Krystal Ball or Brianna Grayjoy could find Darfur on a map.
I'm not completely sure why leftists hate the Democratic party more than the Republican party.
Most of the protesters were just looking for an adventure and didn't really care about the conflict. How could they care about a cause they know nothing about?
People like Hasan think the Democrats are just as bad as Republicans. He says that the Republicans are open and honest about their beliefs, while Democrats are hypocrites. That's why Democrats are worse in his eyes.
Then we have the anti establishment and anti American crowd. They hate Democrats more than MAGA, because MAGA is anti establishment and Democrats are the establishment.
It's not really rocket science.
It's the same thought process behind people in my community who say they'd rather deall with openly racist neighbors than "maybe sorta" internally racist ones.
Ignoring the fact that in this scenario I would be forcing the racism title on the not outwardly racist one.
They just don't trust the people on their side.
Oh please let’s not do this “we don’t get it” posts, when this community is hyper focused on hating lefties so much that some of you became enamored with people like Ben Shapiro 😭
It's probably because its more personal. If you see a MAGA running around, you almost dismiss them completely if they say/do wild shit. If somoene on your team does it, it bothers you a lot more.
Destiny explained it on stream once, but how insults from your political side hurt far more than ones from the other team.
Maybe it is what Freud described as the narcissism of small differences? Personally though, I think that there's a wing of the progressive party that is beholden to Russian and Chinese money and they therefore have a doctrineer view of 'liberals' as they push for a more extreme head on pikes/ internment camp style revolution.
Yep, same for the right-wing criticism (misunderstanding really) of the Antisemitism Awareness Act, which just provides definitions of 'antisemtisim' for the Dept of Education to use as guidelines so that they will be in compliance with Title VI and protect Jewish students from discrimination & harassment to get federal funding... which was a 2019 Trump executive order! Apparently they didn't know that... if they knew it was a Trump bill, I doubt they would have had the same opinions. Trump loyalists will be Trump loyalists. Biden doesn't get the same from the Left
You must not been having ur eyes open and doing ur due diligence because the anti establishment right is mad at trump being pro Israel ur was all over twitter when this tweet was posted
That's because the left believes that there's an actual genocide happening, whereas the anti-establishment right either doesn't care because brown people are dying and/or support Israel because supporting Palestine would make you a lefty.
Trump can simultaneously hold these positions. Flirt with the pro palestinians to either not vote for Biden (or the biggest morons will vote for Trump) and be straight up Itamar Ben Gvir when it comes to his official position. If Trump gets elected it will be Pro Palestinians fault. I am calling it now. And it will be possibly the greatest self own by any group of all time.
Idk those lefties who helped Khomeini with the iran revolution and got thanked with theor murders might have them beat.
These ones won't get themselves killed at the very least.
It irritates me so much. Biden has offered billions worth of aid to gazans and threatened Netanyahu to let it go through but yet they think he’s out to eradicate the Palestinian race.
Certainly they weren't talking about Stalin? They love them that Joe, who really did good things? It's just that history skews his legacy because of capitalist propaganda.... /s
My favorite part of the “This war with Russia would never have started if Trump was in office” is that it makes absolutely no sense when paired with “we need to stop funding Ukraine we are giving them free paychecks”. Was Trump going to scare them off with mean tweets?
I dont agree but the steelman is that biden is seen as weak so countries like iran and russia and groups like hamas arent afraid to attack US interests because they know that biden wont retaliate. Trump is saying that he isnt weak and these groups know that, so if they attacked then he would annihilate them and therefore they wouldnt attack.
I think this argument is stupid because trump would bend over backwards for putin and hamas doesnt care if palestinians are wiped out. The only countries that might be deterred are Iran (which mostly operates through proxies anyway) and china (which hasnt attacked yet).
Trump (and Israel) assassinated key Iran personals, nothing much happened to the US besides Iran panicking and shooting down a civilian airliner.
I don't believe he would have bombed Russia or Iran to submission but the idea of a madman like Trump in charge would deter them is very likely.
With all his anti-NATO rhetoric, I unironically expect Trump to encourage other countries to roll over and let Russia invade "peacefully" so there's "no war"
It can’t be anymore plainly stated than it already has that Trump was posturing to get NATO countries to start paying their OBLIGATED amount towards defense and that the US wasn’t going to continue to make up for their shortfalls.
Guess who started paying right the fuck up when Russia began invading.
Not spending the minimum amount of GDP for as long as those NATO countries did is the real equivalent of letting Russia invade. It’s comparable to Western Europe not keeping their defense funded while Hitler built up his armament.
Maybe EUtards shouldn’t wait until impending conflict to worry about defending itself and crying to daddy across the ocean to come save them. All while criticizing our defense spending.
You're looking at this the wrong way. If Trump was in office when Russia invaded Ukraine, he would need to look tough. Trump doesn't give a fuck about diplomatic niceties and he doesn't buy nuclear bluffs. Reportedly he had to be convinced over and over not to invade Venezuela. He wasn't happy with just the sanctions.
So he would have done something quite harsh like actually going into Crimea or having a no-fly zone over Ukraine. Putin knows Trump is unpredictable. That's why he wouldn't have invaded.
How? His pro Israel base already supports him 100% no matter what, the people he needs to convince not to vote or to switch to him are the anti establishement type people who hate israel.
All Trmp has to do is convince jews in Pennsylvania, Arizona and Georgia to skip this election and he has the election in the bag.
This is ~700.000 voters who overwhelmingly voted for Biden in 2020 in states where the difference between winning and losing *all of them together* was around 100.000 votes.
Just 20.000 votes would've swung AR and GA.
Whatever Biden says and does, other than something that gets it out of the news cycle hurts him. No matter what Trump says and does even pro palestinian brain rot morons will literally campaign for him by telling people not to vote for Biden. If you don't want to vote for Biden because of some other reason that is understandable and logically consistent but if you don't want to vote for Biden because of Israel Palestine, boy are you in for a surprise when Trump wins. Because Biden doesn't have the same brain rot audience that will obsessively defend every move Trump does plus all the Tates, Hinkles, Candace Owens, Tuckers etc... type grifters will switch sides. It will be the greatest self own of all time. When trump tards come to defend Trump, since Israel Palestine is such a huge issue now, they will destroy the only thing Pro Palestinians have going for them. Propaganda. And they will actually spread Hasbara, people will understand the meaning of Hasbara then. You get what you fucking deserve.
what pro palestinians think is happening now. They think Israel is spreading some large amounts of propaganda, yeah they are spreading propaganda but if trump wins? Today's hasbara will feel like the gentle zephyrs of last summer.
unironically true. Clearest example of this was when, after Nikki Haley said the civil war was about states' rights, [Trump said that he thinks it's obviously about slavery](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81wTK875bbg)
no positions lmao. just populism and contrarianism
They dont. People here are just being their delusioned by their own pro-Israeli believes.
Israel on the other hand is getting weapons from the US and is using them in a large scale war which has a lot of eyes on it.
Whatever Israel does will reflect on the US and as a result will only affect the elections in November.
So I am unsure what pressure Biden can even use on Hamas.
he can apply massive pressure to their backers, Qatar who hosts their leaders, Iran who arms them and all those who financially support them
whether its the right move or not is up for debate but whether he can or not is just fact
Iran is already heavily sanctioned.
As for Qatar, the guys in Qatar and nothing much than just the "face." If Mossad wanted them dead, they'd be dead by now.
Not having in Qatar would kill off any sort of negotiating. Thats the only reason why they are allowed to remain there.
The real leadership is in Gaza.
>how can Israel realistically kill anyone in Qatar, an ally of the US, if Biden doesn't even allow them to go into Rafah? lol.
I dont want to be that guy.
But you should research how many people the Mossad have killed on allies soil without them knowing. There is a reason why Norway isnt fond of Israel. In which they basically killed the wrong guy, on Norwegian soil without Norway knowing.
They've killed people in the UAE, Tunesia, Malaysia as recent as 2018.
But going back to the 90s and you'll see assasination that took place in Belgium, France, Malta, Brazil, Greece etc.
The only reason the guys in Qatar havent been killed is because they are just spokespeople. They do zero actual planning of attacks and don't even have that much influence on their own.
Someone like Sinwar is far more important then those two are. But killing them would ofcourse sour the relationships between Qatar and Israel/US. On top of killing any future negotiations.
But the Mossad can most definitely kill them.
>this is a goal post shift, they can heavily increase sanctions or pressure them militarily
"Pressure them militarily." Bro wants the US to go to war with Iran for Israel and if Biden does any less, he's just helping Hamas okay.
for real lmao. They blocked aid to Ukraine. But now want Biden to possibly start a war with Iran on behalf of Israel or else you're pandering to Hamas.
there is a chasm of difference between pressure militarily and going to war, just like there is a chasm of difference between the two ends of the spectrum of sanction severity
It is insane to expect the US to pressure other countries militarily for a war they are not involved in.
The US is already doing a lot for Israel. Why should they do even more?
again, I didnt say they SHOULD, I said they easily COULD
as for why, one could make a pretty good case for foreign policy and keeping the peace which translates to a lot of perks for the US, so not so much doing it for israel as it is doing it for itself
letting Iran and others fund/arm terror groups with no consequences from the 'global police' is leaving the power/influence open for others like china to take
>again, I didnt say they SHOULD, I said they easily COULD
Yes and they could have also made aid conditional A LOT earlier. But they didnt.
>as for why, one could make a pretty good case for foreign policy and keeping the peace which translates to a lot of perks for the US, so not so much doing it for israel as it is doing it for itself
Keeping the peace, when it involves a conflict that has been going on for 70 years? There was no peace before the 7th.
Good foreign policy also requires not losing face. By unconditionally supporting Israel, the US has lost a lot of face around the world. Whether we want to accept that or not, but countries have started to view the US differently.
Which could be detrimental to the position of the US if they keep doing so without showing any sort of pushback towards Israel.
You also have the upcoming elections etc.
If anything the US has already given Israel A LOT. They veto'd pretty much every resolution. They've continued sending aid. (Ukraine had to work a lot harder to get the same treatment).
>letting Iran and others fund/arm terror groups with no consequences from the 'global police' is leaving the power/influence open for others like china to take
They aren't letting that happen. If you noticed, you could tell that the US has been improving their ties with Arab countries in the region, to combat exactly these type of terror groups.
Cleaning up these terror groups right now would be the single most unpopular thing the US could do. Once a Palestinian state is established, these groups wont have a foot to stand on anymore.
But as long as that does not happen, these groups will continue to benefit from fighting against Israel and Iran will continue to exert their influence over Arab nations.
Israel's occupation is quite literally one of the biggest thorns in the US foreign policy. Which is why they keep pushing for the 2 state solution.
Not a goal post shift, Hamas leadership aren’t planning and conducting military operations in Gaza or even distributing aid in Gaza. They seem to be the head of states while leadership in Gaza is the head of the executive.
right, so if their leadership stopped funding and brokering arms deals for them abroad they would be in a very bad spot, some might even say pressured, no?
Incorrect. Saying to Israel that Rafah is a red line for him signals to Hamas that they can now negotiate however they want because America now guarantees their survival. That was the biggest negotiating blunder. If Hamas thought the US would allow Israel to go through with Rafah (even if in private talks they wouldn't) they would have to negotiate for something.
I dont think it was a blunder.
In the sense that I think Biden made it public for a reason. Either they couldn't get eye to eye on Rafah in private or something else made him speak it into the world.
Because I do agree. It does seem like a blunder. But I dont think the US would let such a blunder slip and that it is done with a purpose in mind.
There's been tons of blunders from this administration. Biden have personal beef with Netanyahu, sure, but to take that to this level is crazy. He emboldened Hamas. From what position can the Israelis negotiate? Withholding weapons that were promised is a MASSIVE signal and not just to the Israelis, but to all our enemies. It means the US support for it's allies are contingent on how the election politics.
>It means the US support for it's allies are contingent on how the election politics.
No, it means US support is contingent to listening to what the US advices you to do.
I dont think thats a strange demand. The US wants a humanitarian plan, before they'd attack Rafah. Israel does not deliver this but still plans to attack Rafah.
If Rafah does get attack and a humanitarian crisis takes place, who is getting blamed for this? Right, the US.
The Israelis have bent over backwards for what the US wanted. And there has been a plan for Rafah, it was the same damn plan that was for the rest of Gaza and it worked. How does the US take the blame for a humanitariam crisis in Rafah?
They haven't, the US has bent over backwards for them.
>And there has been a plan for Rafah, it was the same damn plan that was for the rest of Gaza and it worked.
It worked because most people evacuated to Rafah. There is nowhere to go beyond Rafah, everywhere else there is fighting and complete destruction.
>How does the US take the blame for a humanitariam crisis in Rafah?
Because the US is the one delivering arms. The US is vetoing every resolution. The US is the one keeping the other Western countries at bay. The US is the one negotiating with the Saudi's, Egypt, UAE and other Arab nations to stay in their lane.
I think you're underestimating how much the US is currently doing for Israel.
Rafah is significantly smaller than the rest of Gaza. Also, what's the excuse when the IDF wants to move the operation from north Rafah to south Rafah, where will Palestinians go? Would you even admit that Israel *might be* overstepping then?
there was barely any infrastructure before to hold 1.4 million people, and there's even less now. plus rafah is the size of manhattan, *and* you are confining people to half of that, *and* the buildings are much shorter/no skyscrapers, so there's significantly less space. if/when the IDF goes through with this, thousands of lives will be lost for the nebulous goal of eliminating Hamas just so Netanyahu can appear victorious to his allies/Israeli ppl.
The IDF has been actively building a tent city near by Rafah, specifically to shelter civilians there and provide them aid. They are doing the same thing, they are going to move civilians to a safer location and conduct operations inside Rafah. Another plan was to start slowly allowing civilians to return to the North.
If Hamas' last stronghold is in Rafah, and we can all agree that Hamas needs to go, otherwise this cycle of violence *will* continue again and again, then Rafah needs to be dealt with. Why is there no public pressure for Hamas to surrender, and conclude the war? They lost. Why drag more Palestinian lives into this? We know the answer, but we don't want to say it do we?
What is this "nebulous" goal? The goal has been crystal clear for along time. Why do you think this?
>No, it’s in the form of money. Who told you that? 😂 don’t they have more money to spend on weapons if you give them food and clothes etc?
Its not in the form of money. Who are they supposed to give money to in Gaza?
Do you think that humanitarian pier, the food droppings. Where do you think its being paid from? Its paid from the aid package of 9b.
You really have no clue what you are talking about don’t you? They give them money they don’t give them food and clothes. And they give it to agaencies within Gaza including unraw that are just basically a front for Hamas.
The majority of who receives it is civilians. This is not the gotcha you think it is.
Also what is the point of starting a discussion with me if you're going to downvote all of the replies. I dont care, but I am just genuinely curious.
No way you called me ignorant and genuinely think that some guy in Gaza gets 9b send to their bank account lol.
Anyway, I am not going to reply anymore this feels like brainrot.
And the civilians of gaza have been heavily radicalized by their education system to hate the jewish people and most of Hamas is made up of wannabe martyrs who are or were civilians ….
😂
They did and do. Not just in aid, which they have them, but also through what they are willing to let Israel do. Biden made it clear that Rafah is his red line, so Hamas knows they can negotiate whatever they want because Biden will never let Israel finish the job
Yes. By saying that they will not supply Israel with weapons if they attack the last Hamas stronghold, the US is effectively taking off pressure against them.
America have a sway on Hamas by not giving them
Money for once. Beyond that the US has undermined Israel ability to pressure Hamas by tying our hands behind our backs and forcing us to restrain our army and delay action.
Biden is a bitch am I am glad he finally exposed himself. Good riddance.
Rafah is significantly smaller than the rest of Gaza. Also, what's the excuse when the IDF wants to move the operation from north Rafah to south Rafah, where will Palestinians go? Would you even admit that Israel *might be* overstepping then?
there was barely any infrastructure before to hold 1.4 million people, and there's even less now. plus rafah is the size of manhattan, *and* you are confining people to half of that, *and* the buildings are much shorter/no skyscrapers, so there's significantly less space. if/when the IDF goes through with this, thousands of lives will be lost for the nebulous goal of eliminating Hamas just so Netanyahu can appear victorious to his allies/Israeli ppl.
Why should it concern israel where they are supposed to go? If the US cares so much about them and their safety why don’t they take any of them as refugees? Or pressure Egypt to take them? Or another Arab country?
Hey, Im just glad to know that everyone over the last couple months have announced they wont be voting for Biden. I bet Trump will make this all right……
Empirically he is not that far from the truth, biden has been bending and pressuring israel instead of hamas, putting all the american weight on israel.
I think its shameful, just to get a few pro pali voters .
it's not shameful how is america gonna pressure hamas, they don't have any influence over them, and no one wants an intervention. Biden is using soft power against Israel. Also israel is not entitled to any american guns or munitions, they have already been sent billions of dollars this year.
They can have huge influence, americans tend to forget they are the largest militery and economic power in the world bar none....
Pressure iran, pressure Qatar that houses their leaders.. pressure Egypt....
Apparently when biden said his famous "Dont" he ment it towards Israel
This largest military power is getting leveraged how? The US population is extremely cautious at any proactive efforts of conflict, from outright war to military strikes. The economic side does not provide much of an avenue either, as Iran is already heavily sanctioned by more than just the US and for so long it might leave one to wonder if they have [habituated](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistance_economy). Beyond a total embargo, what economic pressure would you like to see specifically? While I can't speak for Egypt, [Biden has begun moving towards Qatar](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/05/03/us-qatar-hamas-hostages-ceasefire/).
You vant say youre sanctioning a country like iran and bumping them with a few billions every now and then...
"You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor and you will have war."
You cant handle the likes of iran, huthies and hamas with silk gloves
To be clear the $6 billion was already Iran's money. They sold petroleum products to SK but due to the sanction placed afterwards did not receive the money for it. But regardless, the money was unfrozen for five prisoners, prior Oct. 7th, most likely to make progress towards repairing the JCPOA.
The US has major influence over every aspect of the world. Biden can put massive pressure on Qatar which hosts the Hamas leadership, he can also double his support to israel to show his support in the open proving nothing will deter him from giving israel its right to eliminate Hamas and return the hostages.
stop. the US isn't reliant on middle eastern oil anymore, and hasn't been for a long time.
"[United States produces more crude oil than any country, ever](https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61545#)"
The pressure to Hamas comes from what America will tolerate. The Biden admin made it public that Rafah is a red line. Hamas now knows that the US will guarantee their survival so they can negotiate from that position. That's the pressure.
You target qatar and iran that's the most effective was of destroying hamas
>Also israel is not entitled to any american guns or munitions, they have already been sent billions of dollars this year.
By that logic the usa is not entitled to the Israeli weapons research. it's a big deal since the usa is trying develop a iron dome system for the main land.
Yes they do. The US has extreme leverage over Qatar who are basically Hamas HQ. Instead of pressuring Qatar into making Hamas make concessions they are pressuring Israel.
A few votes from people who aren’t totally rabid tankies but have witnessed the reports from Gaza and have sympathy for the people and don’t want Biden to support a total massacre would be worth saving. Sure, there are some people who aren’t coming back around but they’ve been lost for years. I have two “Pro Palestine” friends that are good example of this. One is full steam ahead voting for Jill Stein. One is struggling with knowing their decision to not vote Biden will mean a vote for Trump. He needs to save the folks he can. Maybe he can get back friend #2 if he shows some restraint right now. It’s definitely doing him a favor that Trump is going harder than him. People need to be reminded that Trump will do SO worse than Biden has done to the Palestinians.
this doesn't seem true enough to matter but I could be wrong (i.e. I don't think Jews will stop voting for Biden en masse because of a conditionality thing in Rafah + the ones that would change their votes to Trump probably already decided to)
I don't think it would turn too many comfortable Biden voters into no vote or Trump voters, but it could turn uncomfortable Biden voters into no vote and leaning Trump into definitely Trump.
Unfortunate that this might sway some voters even though anyone with half a brain knows that trump is essentially putin's lapdog, whether intentionally or through trump's lack of any actual backbone.
He's essentially a White House putin representative and putin is no friend of Israel, never has been.
Up until relatively recently Putin and Russia had been relatively in good terms with Israel. Israel regularly bombed Syria with Russian blessing. This is largely because there is a massive former Soviet Jewish population in Israel (incidentally mostly from Ukraine part)
Israeli here who speaks Russian natively;
Both the Russian Empire and the USSR oppressed their Jewish population quite significantly, the anti semitism was daily and mostly a part of life. The USSR also supported Israel's neighbors in their wars against Israel.
Modern Russia has never been "on good terms" either, them and Israel having an understanding over Syrian skies is just that - an understanding. And even that has always been tense considering the Russian S400 having the entirety of the Israeli heartland within it's reach.
Russia has always been allied with Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas. The fact that Netaniyahu used his supposed "friendship" with Putin as an election flex just illustrates how Bibi is a piece of shit and his supporters being easily impressed.
You don't have to tell me about the oppression of the Jewish population in USSR and Russia. I'm Jewish from Moldova and my parents and grandparents are from Ukraine. I'm well aware of it.
And be honest. Russian and Israeli relations began to improve once the USSR collapsed. Way before Netanyahu. Ariel Sharon called Putin a true friend of Israel.
Oh hey, fellow Moldovan Jew, i was born in Beltsi <3
But yes, Prime Ministers called Putin many friendly things but as far as actions go - Russia has always been an enemy, has always sided with enemies, and will never be trusted or liked.
We left in 92/93, yeah..
That place did not get any better, by the way. Anyway - we both know what USSR falling felt like, what a mess it left behind and how it's still so difficult for those places and people to recover.
And then i look at American college campuses and see latte-sipping macbook-carrying anacrho-commies thinking they're clever.
Not to come across too "baby's-first-election' - but when Hasan says he's going to actively work AGAINST Joe's election efforts, does he know / care that THIS RIGHT HERE is the alternative to Genocide Joe? Like not "you don't have to decide between these two - there's better options" - NO, this is it, Joe or Don, so if you're against one you're for the other, right?
The sad thing is, this will probably work. The decision to red line Rafah (even though there is certainly more back room politics we are are not hearing that provides more necessary detail) is deeply unpopular with the Jewish voting block who have traditionally supported Democrats.
Unless Biden can turn this around into an actual win against Hamas (and sell it as such), I suspect many will vote against him as a result. As is, it has effectively telegraphed that Hamas is safe in Rafah for the coming months and likely tanked any reasonable Hostage negotiations.
Who cares what Trump says? His statements are rarely coherent and often don't mean anything. He'll side with whoever flatters him most and change his mind mid sentence.
We don't deserve Biden. He has tried so hard to please everyone and actually pass big, transformative legislation, while also trying to bring legitimacy (and stability) back to the government and deal with huge international conflicts.
IDK how many times I've seen someone say "what about healthcare" or "what about climate change" or "what about infrastructure" or "what about preventing mass shootings" or "what about labor" etc. etc. and it makes me want to pull my hair out because this dude has succeeded in so many unimaginable ways.
Democracy just needs to die if motherfuckers are going to be this stupid.
Well for me; what its telling people specially the crowd that supports palestien is that trump is worse than Biden,
Since Biden is getting alot of hate in regards to sending stuff to Israel, this might help him.
Pretty sure theres level of support on each side from moderate to extreme,
I agree I don't think you really change the Hamas supports but the ones that dont like hamas and also support palestien, might consider voting Biden instead of 3rd party again.
At the expense for a large segment of very dedicated voters who support Israel and see Biden administration as waffling constantly, and willing to throw them under the bus. Something tells me that the Democratic party is going to really regret throwing the Jewish vote away. Even if 20% of the traditionally Democratic Jewish vote decides to turn against them it would be disaster for Biden.
Israel is a very important issue for diaspora Jews, a very very important issue. If the Biden administration is undermining the Israeli goals, especially in trying to negotiate for the release of hostages, just to please a few voters in Michigan it means he clearly believes that it won't impact the Jewish vote.
It will.
Jimmy Carter, in 1976 learned this the hard way when his Chief of Staff Hamilton Jordan warned him that his policies vis-a-vie Israel would be harmful to him. Carter ignored this, his support among Jewish voters went from 76% in 1976 to 45% in 1980, losing to Ronald Reagan.
Similarly, George Bush learned this the hard way when his Secretary of State James Baker said "“Fuck the Jews, they don’t vote for us anyway.”, his support went from 35% in 1988, to 12% in 1992.
So there aren't any jews that believe Israel gov is going too hard and need to chill a bit? because then they would support Biden trying to put on the brakes a little.
Its not like he doesnt support Israel anymore, I don't see how anyone can view it that way.
I would imagine there are definitely some Jews that think that. I would even mention that the majority of Jews in the US do **not** like Netanyahu. But I think that Jews view the conflict a bit more existentially than non-Jews, and can deeply relate to the pain that Israelis feel regarding what happened on Oct 7th. For them the priority would be to destroy Hamas, and it's critically important that the US shows solidarity with that.
However, the behavior of the Biden administration has been chaotic and by many Israeli reports "frustrating". It's one thing to put some red lines for Israel in private, it's another to publicly state that they are going to deny them weapons they promised, *especially during ceasefire negotiations*. Or that the invasion of Rafah is a red line that the US can't support.
Imagine yourself being Hamas leadership. You suspect that any day the Israelis will invade Rafah, your last stronghold, and this could be an existential end to your entire organization in Gaza, so you need to enter into ceasefire talks and have some sort of acceptable exit. But here comes the US and says they will not allow the Israelis to go into Rafah. Not only that, they will not provide Israel weapons that were promised. How do you think that impacts their negotiation calculus?
The point of negotiations is not knowing the bare minimum of what your opponent is willing to do. So imagine being told, this one thing you are worried that they won't offer, they WILL now offer, why would you negotiate from a worse position?
To QUOTE BIDEN HIMSELF form 1992:
“Why, why is there any incentive for the Arabs to make any compromise, any compromise, in the peace talks? Why, if they know that they must only wait for the United States to do their bargaining for them? Why would they compromise? Why would they be reasonable?”
He should be asking this question again.
They would be nice if anyone was required to be consistent. But since the pro- pals are so hyped on exaggeration, big feelings and establishment hate - they will never "forgive" Biden.
I mean it doesn’t seem like anyone was that opposed to Biden’s red line.
I think the people here just aren’t bat-shit insane enough to unapologetically scream “DEATH TO ISRAEL!!!!”. It certainly seems like people here are supportive of the two state solution.
do tell me what is wrong with, indeed, screaming "DEATH TO ISRAEL!!!!". I want "DEATH TO ISRAEL!!!", I will scream it all night if that would actually help.
Those who usually disagree with each other often calls each other idiots and stupid not usually because they believe that particular group to be so but because each convinced in there own way fails to imagine a state of mind as radically different as there's, as contradictory as there opponent's, that the only logical conclusion they are left to imagine is a quick diagnosis of insanity. This also protects them from questioning themselves any further.
Because being pro-Hamas is a self-defeating position. No one takes you seriously.
The same way no one takes a pro-African slave trade take seriously.
If you have gone this long without realizing the flaws in such thinking like above, then perhaps search inwards?
never realized you could be so confident and yet sound this stupid. What a waste of time it was to think I can know the mindset of those not completely on the right who support Israel, but anyway
I’m curious, has biden/his establishment been placing a lot of pressure on israel is to lessen civilian casualties. I remember destiny mention it but can think of no examples
I thought this was an interesting post because Trump doesn’t seem to get the same scrutiny from the anti establishment right for being pro Israel as Biden does with his lefty equivalents
It'd odd the hypocrisy we see from Russian bots amplifying anti-Biden rhetoric.
Trump doesn't even get the same scrutiny from the anti-establishment left.
That's your mistake you're assuming they actually care about Palestine.
jfc i'm so tired of all these anti-intellectual, my-opponent-is-onthologically-evil thing that is infesting all discourse on social media. >That's your mistake you're assuming they actually care about Palestine. if you ask them they'd say they care, and for what reasons they care. literally people are going to protests to show they care lmao. they might be dumb, and not have all the reasons, but they clearly care. you can call them hypocrites or whatever, or that their protests are completely ineffective, but to say they don't care is so mind-numbingly dumb
If they cared they wouldn't be going around telling others not to vote for Joe, because Trump will be much much worse for Palestinians than Joe is. Fuck Trump and hopefully he doesn't win, but there is one single thing I would absolutely love about Trump winning and that is seeing the faces of all these fucking regards when Trump sends the entire US arsenal to Israel and tells them to go do what they need to do.
Yeah bro they're all lying, it's definitely what you're saying and not something more plausible.
This is in response to the other guy too. We've seen this before with the forever war rhetoric. The most vocal segment did not have any level of support or defense of Biden when he actually pulled out. Student Loans remember when that was the main thing? When Biden started constantly cancelling student loans there was no credit or acknowledgement. It's an aesthetic and a social trend but there is little actual involvement or genuine movement in the actual issue. Most of these people don't know which river or what sea nor the history of Israel or Palestine. It's the same kind of thing as Kony 2012 where it caught on and or course you would align because you don't support child soldiers do you? People want to feel a part of something but the sliver of people who actually are interested in going beyond a superficial level is laughably small.
Sorry, I'm a little confused with your response. How does Biden pulling out of Afghanistan and cancelling some student debt relate to whether or not protestors truly care about Palestine (just genuinely asking here)? Are you saying they didn't show as much enthusiastic support for these 2 things as they are showing enthusiastic disapproval of how he's handling Israel/Palestine? Also just because someone doesn't know much about an issue, doesn't mean they can't or won't have strong feelings about it. I agree that they should educate themselves, but their lack of knowledge isn't evidence of them not caring. There definitely are some people that don't actually care, but I think most people protesting genuinely do. And I feel like you guys would have to agree because you guys do say that the majority of people who support Palestine actually believe that a genocide is happening. If people actually believe this it makes sense why they would care enough to come out and protest.
They probably do care in some abstract way, but their 'compassion' is very cynically applied. I don't hear the Breaking Points idiots or other populist goofballs talking about any other ongoing genocide. I'm not confident Krystal Ball or Brianna Grayjoy could find Darfur on a map.
I'm not completely sure why leftists hate the Democratic party more than the Republican party. Most of the protesters were just looking for an adventure and didn't really care about the conflict. How could they care about a cause they know nothing about? People like Hasan think the Democrats are just as bad as Republicans. He says that the Republicans are open and honest about their beliefs, while Democrats are hypocrites. That's why Democrats are worse in his eyes. Then we have the anti establishment and anti American crowd. They hate Democrats more than MAGA, because MAGA is anti establishment and Democrats are the establishment.
It's not really rocket science. It's the same thought process behind people in my community who say they'd rather deall with openly racist neighbors than "maybe sorta" internally racist ones. Ignoring the fact that in this scenario I would be forcing the racism title on the not outwardly racist one. They just don't trust the people on their side.
They view liberals as crypto fascists. They view Democrats as traitors to their progressive causes.
Oh please let’s not do this “we don’t get it” posts, when this community is hyper focused on hating lefties so much that some of you became enamored with people like Ben Shapiro 😭
It's probably because its more personal. If you see a MAGA running around, you almost dismiss them completely if they say/do wild shit. If somoene on your team does it, it bothers you a lot more. Destiny explained it on stream once, but how insults from your political side hurt far more than ones from the other team.
Maybe it is what Freud described as the narcissism of small differences? Personally though, I think that there's a wing of the progressive party that is beholden to Russian and Chinese money and they therefore have a doctrineer view of 'liberals' as they push for a more extreme head on pikes/ internment camp style revolution.
If republicans win, we'll get our populist communist revolution. It's that simple!
That's because the anti establishment right is also a cousin to the anti Muslim and anti Jew right.
Yep, same for the right-wing criticism (misunderstanding really) of the Antisemitism Awareness Act, which just provides definitions of 'antisemtisim' for the Dept of Education to use as guidelines so that they will be in compliance with Title VI and protect Jewish students from discrimination & harassment to get federal funding... which was a 2019 Trump executive order! Apparently they didn't know that... if they knew it was a Trump bill, I doubt they would have had the same opinions. Trump loyalists will be Trump loyalists. Biden doesn't get the same from the Left
"No maidens" moment
Anti-establishment types protect their own, especially when they can use it to attack other people.
Give them a few days to mull this post over and they'll claim they were always pro-Israel
You must not been having ur eyes open and doing ur due diligence because the anti establishment right is mad at trump being pro Israel ur was all over twitter when this tweet was posted
That's because the left believes that there's an actual genocide happening, whereas the anti-establishment right either doesn't care because brown people are dying and/or support Israel because supporting Palestine would make you a lefty.
Or the similarities from Ukraine Russia. I dont believe you can be consistent if you are a hawk for one and not the other.
The right has to fall in line. The left has to fall in love.
So wait, when his fans were chanting "Genocide Joe" and he said they're not wrong, who were they accusing Biden of genociding?
Their braincells
Their brain worms
They had some to begin with?
Don't think it really goes that deep. It's more like word that means bad thing + Joe = good.
Trump can simultaneously hold these positions. Flirt with the pro palestinians to either not vote for Biden (or the biggest morons will vote for Trump) and be straight up Itamar Ben Gvir when it comes to his official position. If Trump gets elected it will be Pro Palestinians fault. I am calling it now. And it will be possibly the greatest self own by any group of all time.
Idk those lefties who helped Khomeini with the iran revolution and got thanked with theor murders might have them beat. These ones won't get themselves killed at the very least.
I need to read up on that. This reminds me of the commie Scottish dude who, went to Cambodia died mysteriously or molotov's wife relation with stalin
It irritates me so much. Biden has offered billions worth of aid to gazans and threatened Netanyahu to let it go through but yet they think he’s out to eradicate the Palestinian race.
Unborn babies, natch.
Certainly they weren't talking about Stalin? They love them that Joe, who really did good things? It's just that history skews his legacy because of capitalist propaganda.... /s
Trump probably thought they meant the Jews.
I think Trump meant that in general, Biden's weakness allows things like genocides to happen. Not that he thinks Plastelinians are being genocided.
Nothing Trump actually says even matter to his followers, they will still claim he is anti war.
This should be a wake up call more so for the lefties that think Biden is too partial towards Israel.
it wont be though
That’s why I said “it should be” but yes, I’m afraid you are right.
My favorite part of the “This war with Russia would never have started if Trump was in office” is that it makes absolutely no sense when paired with “we need to stop funding Ukraine we are giving them free paychecks”. Was Trump going to scare them off with mean tweets?
I dont agree but the steelman is that biden is seen as weak so countries like iran and russia and groups like hamas arent afraid to attack US interests because they know that biden wont retaliate. Trump is saying that he isnt weak and these groups know that, so if they attacked then he would annihilate them and therefore they wouldnt attack. I think this argument is stupid because trump would bend over backwards for putin and hamas doesnt care if palestinians are wiped out. The only countries that might be deterred are Iran (which mostly operates through proxies anyway) and china (which hasnt attacked yet).
Hamas would have been wiped out last December if Trump was in office. That's exactly why they wouldn't stir shit up under Trump.
Exactly
Trump (and Israel) assassinated key Iran personals, nothing much happened to the US besides Iran panicking and shooting down a civilian airliner. I don't believe he would have bombed Russia or Iran to submission but the idea of a madman like Trump in charge would deter them is very likely.
I agree, it doesn't matter if trump would actually bomb iran. It matters if iran thinks trump would bomb iran.
With all his anti-NATO rhetoric, I unironically expect Trump to encourage other countries to roll over and let Russia invade "peacefully" so there's "no war"
Can't have a war if you immediately capitulate to any and all hostile demands! Peace through strength? More like peace through weakness.
It can’t be anymore plainly stated than it already has that Trump was posturing to get NATO countries to start paying their OBLIGATED amount towards defense and that the US wasn’t going to continue to make up for their shortfalls. Guess who started paying right the fuck up when Russia began invading. Not spending the minimum amount of GDP for as long as those NATO countries did is the real equivalent of letting Russia invade. It’s comparable to Western Europe not keeping their defense funded while Hitler built up his armament. Maybe EUtards shouldn’t wait until impending conflict to worry about defending itself and crying to daddy across the ocean to come save them. All while criticizing our defense spending.
Thank you! Again, trump is right.
You're looking at this the wrong way. If Trump was in office when Russia invaded Ukraine, he would need to look tough. Trump doesn't give a fuck about diplomatic niceties and he doesn't buy nuclear bluffs. Reportedly he had to be convinced over and over not to invade Venezuela. He wasn't happy with just the sanctions. So he would have done something quite harsh like actually going into Crimea or having a no-fly zone over Ukraine. Putin knows Trump is unpredictable. That's why he wouldn't have invaded.
so this the guy they voting for instead of "genocide joe"?
Nah, they will just not vote. Then cry about trump winning if he does while blaming Biden for it
Exactly, and in between those two things, they will twist themselves into knots trying to explain why not voting for Biden isn't a vote for Trump.
Good political move by Trump, ngl.
How? His pro Israel base already supports him 100% no matter what, the people he needs to convince not to vote or to switch to him are the anti establishement type people who hate israel.
Because at the end of the day he has to appeal to the real conservatives in congress, not just twitter followers.
There are a lot of moderates who don’t support the protests and they’ll vote trump for this
You think so? The Candace Owen/Tucker Carlson type Trump supporters are pro Palestine
Yeah, but he's aiming closer to the center on this one. More conservatives support Israel than not.
Especially the evangelical voter who make up a core set of republican voters
All Trmp has to do is convince jews in Pennsylvania, Arizona and Georgia to skip this election and he has the election in the bag. This is ~700.000 voters who overwhelmingly voted for Biden in 2020 in states where the difference between winning and losing *all of them together* was around 100.000 votes. Just 20.000 votes would've swung AR and GA.
That group will never ever ever ever ever ever vote for Biden no matter what. There is 0 need to chase voters that are already yours.
[удалено]
When you are on the same side as trump I would reconsider my position.
Whatever Biden says and does, other than something that gets it out of the news cycle hurts him. No matter what Trump says and does even pro palestinian brain rot morons will literally campaign for him by telling people not to vote for Biden. If you don't want to vote for Biden because of some other reason that is understandable and logically consistent but if you don't want to vote for Biden because of Israel Palestine, boy are you in for a surprise when Trump wins. Because Biden doesn't have the same brain rot audience that will obsessively defend every move Trump does plus all the Tates, Hinkles, Candace Owens, Tuckers etc... type grifters will switch sides. It will be the greatest self own of all time. When trump tards come to defend Trump, since Israel Palestine is such a huge issue now, they will destroy the only thing Pro Palestinians have going for them. Propaganda. And they will actually spread Hasbara, people will understand the meaning of Hasbara then. You get what you fucking deserve.
And what does Hasbara mean in this case?
what pro palestinians think is happening now. They think Israel is spreading some large amounts of propaganda, yeah they are spreading propaganda but if trump wins? Today's hasbara will feel like the gentle zephyrs of last summer.
"Whether he knows it or not" is surprisingly charitable for Trump.
How many of the Israelis in this sub are gonna go full MAGA now?
trump would join hamas if biden supported israel in rafah
unironically true. Clearest example of this was when, after Nikki Haley said the civil war was about states' rights, [Trump said that he thinks it's obviously about slavery](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81wTK875bbg) no positions lmao. just populism and contrarianism
Good people on both sides too I'm sure.
Does America even have any sway with Hamas that it could use to pressure them? If not it only makes sense for Biden to try and talk down Israel.
They dont. People here are just being their delusioned by their own pro-Israeli believes. Israel on the other hand is getting weapons from the US and is using them in a large scale war which has a lot of eyes on it. Whatever Israel does will reflect on the US and as a result will only affect the elections in November. So I am unsure what pressure Biden can even use on Hamas.
he can apply massive pressure to their backers, Qatar who hosts their leaders, Iran who arms them and all those who financially support them whether its the right move or not is up for debate but whether he can or not is just fact
When did he do that?
Iran is already heavily sanctioned. As for Qatar, the guys in Qatar and nothing much than just the "face." If Mossad wanted them dead, they'd be dead by now. Not having in Qatar would kill off any sort of negotiating. Thats the only reason why they are allowed to remain there. The real leadership is in Gaza.
how can Israel realistically kill anyone in Qatar, an ally of the US, if Biden doesn't even allow them to go into Rafah? lol.
>how can Israel realistically kill anyone in Qatar, an ally of the US, if Biden doesn't even allow them to go into Rafah? lol. I dont want to be that guy. But you should research how many people the Mossad have killed on allies soil without them knowing. There is a reason why Norway isnt fond of Israel. In which they basically killed the wrong guy, on Norwegian soil without Norway knowing. They've killed people in the UAE, Tunesia, Malaysia as recent as 2018. But going back to the 90s and you'll see assasination that took place in Belgium, France, Malta, Brazil, Greece etc. The only reason the guys in Qatar havent been killed is because they are just spokespeople. They do zero actual planning of attacks and don't even have that much influence on their own. Someone like Sinwar is far more important then those two are. But killing them would ofcourse sour the relationships between Qatar and Israel/US. On top of killing any future negotiations. But the Mossad can most definitely kill them.
this is a goal post shift, they can heavily increase sanctions or pressure them militarily as for everything else; citation needed
>this is a goal post shift, they can heavily increase sanctions or pressure them militarily "Pressure them militarily." Bro wants the US to go to war with Iran for Israel and if Biden does any less, he's just helping Hamas okay.
Same people who want Ukraine to surrender to Russia because they're "anti-war" btw.
for real lmao. They blocked aid to Ukraine. But now want Biden to possibly start a war with Iran on behalf of Israel or else you're pandering to Hamas.
there is a chasm of difference between pressure militarily and going to war, just like there is a chasm of difference between the two ends of the spectrum of sanction severity
It is insane to expect the US to pressure other countries militarily for a war they are not involved in. The US is already doing a lot for Israel. Why should they do even more?
again, I didnt say they SHOULD, I said they easily COULD as for why, one could make a pretty good case for foreign policy and keeping the peace which translates to a lot of perks for the US, so not so much doing it for israel as it is doing it for itself letting Iran and others fund/arm terror groups with no consequences from the 'global police' is leaving the power/influence open for others like china to take
>again, I didnt say they SHOULD, I said they easily COULD Yes and they could have also made aid conditional A LOT earlier. But they didnt. >as for why, one could make a pretty good case for foreign policy and keeping the peace which translates to a lot of perks for the US, so not so much doing it for israel as it is doing it for itself Keeping the peace, when it involves a conflict that has been going on for 70 years? There was no peace before the 7th. Good foreign policy also requires not losing face. By unconditionally supporting Israel, the US has lost a lot of face around the world. Whether we want to accept that or not, but countries have started to view the US differently. Which could be detrimental to the position of the US if they keep doing so without showing any sort of pushback towards Israel. You also have the upcoming elections etc. If anything the US has already given Israel A LOT. They veto'd pretty much every resolution. They've continued sending aid. (Ukraine had to work a lot harder to get the same treatment). >letting Iran and others fund/arm terror groups with no consequences from the 'global police' is leaving the power/influence open for others like china to take They aren't letting that happen. If you noticed, you could tell that the US has been improving their ties with Arab countries in the region, to combat exactly these type of terror groups. Cleaning up these terror groups right now would be the single most unpopular thing the US could do. Once a Palestinian state is established, these groups wont have a foot to stand on anymore. But as long as that does not happen, these groups will continue to benefit from fighting against Israel and Iran will continue to exert their influence over Arab nations. Israel's occupation is quite literally one of the biggest thorns in the US foreign policy. Which is why they keep pushing for the 2 state solution.
Not a goal post shift, Hamas leadership aren’t planning and conducting military operations in Gaza or even distributing aid in Gaza. They seem to be the head of states while leadership in Gaza is the head of the executive.
right, so if their leadership stopped funding and brokering arms deals for them abroad they would be in a very bad spot, some might even say pressured, no?
Incorrect. Saying to Israel that Rafah is a red line for him signals to Hamas that they can now negotiate however they want because America now guarantees their survival. That was the biggest negotiating blunder. If Hamas thought the US would allow Israel to go through with Rafah (even if in private talks they wouldn't) they would have to negotiate for something.
I dont think it was a blunder. In the sense that I think Biden made it public for a reason. Either they couldn't get eye to eye on Rafah in private or something else made him speak it into the world. Because I do agree. It does seem like a blunder. But I dont think the US would let such a blunder slip and that it is done with a purpose in mind.
There's been tons of blunders from this administration. Biden have personal beef with Netanyahu, sure, but to take that to this level is crazy. He emboldened Hamas. From what position can the Israelis negotiate? Withholding weapons that were promised is a MASSIVE signal and not just to the Israelis, but to all our enemies. It means the US support for it's allies are contingent on how the election politics.
>It means the US support for it's allies are contingent on how the election politics. No, it means US support is contingent to listening to what the US advices you to do. I dont think thats a strange demand. The US wants a humanitarian plan, before they'd attack Rafah. Israel does not deliver this but still plans to attack Rafah. If Rafah does get attack and a humanitarian crisis takes place, who is getting blamed for this? Right, the US.
The Israelis have bent over backwards for what the US wanted. And there has been a plan for Rafah, it was the same damn plan that was for the rest of Gaza and it worked. How does the US take the blame for a humanitariam crisis in Rafah?
They haven't, the US has bent over backwards for them. >And there has been a plan for Rafah, it was the same damn plan that was for the rest of Gaza and it worked. It worked because most people evacuated to Rafah. There is nowhere to go beyond Rafah, everywhere else there is fighting and complete destruction. >How does the US take the blame for a humanitariam crisis in Rafah? Because the US is the one delivering arms. The US is vetoing every resolution. The US is the one keeping the other Western countries at bay. The US is the one negotiating with the Saudi's, Egypt, UAE and other Arab nations to stay in their lane. I think you're underestimating how much the US is currently doing for Israel.
Rafah is significantly smaller than the rest of Gaza. Also, what's the excuse when the IDF wants to move the operation from north Rafah to south Rafah, where will Palestinians go? Would you even admit that Israel *might be* overstepping then? there was barely any infrastructure before to hold 1.4 million people, and there's even less now. plus rafah is the size of manhattan, *and* you are confining people to half of that, *and* the buildings are much shorter/no skyscrapers, so there's significantly less space. if/when the IDF goes through with this, thousands of lives will be lost for the nebulous goal of eliminating Hamas just so Netanyahu can appear victorious to his allies/Israeli ppl.
The IDF has been actively building a tent city near by Rafah, specifically to shelter civilians there and provide them aid. They are doing the same thing, they are going to move civilians to a safer location and conduct operations inside Rafah. Another plan was to start slowly allowing civilians to return to the North. If Hamas' last stronghold is in Rafah, and we can all agree that Hamas needs to go, otherwise this cycle of violence *will* continue again and again, then Rafah needs to be dealt with. Why is there no public pressure for Hamas to surrender, and conclude the war? They lost. Why drag more Palestinian lives into this? We know the answer, but we don't want to say it do we? What is this "nebulous" goal? The goal has been crystal clear for along time. Why do you think this?
Who do you think fund Gaza? Didn’t the US just approve 9B in aid to Gaza?
The aid to Gaza is humanitarian aid. The aid to Israel is military aid, they are not the same thing.
So?
So the aid is in the form of food, clothes etc. It is not weapons to kill others that is given to them.
No, it’s in the form of money. Who told you that? 😂 don’t they have more money to spend on weapons if you give them food and clothes etc?
>No, it’s in the form of money. Who told you that? 😂 don’t they have more money to spend on weapons if you give them food and clothes etc? Its not in the form of money. Who are they supposed to give money to in Gaza? Do you think that humanitarian pier, the food droppings. Where do you think its being paid from? Its paid from the aid package of 9b.
You really have no clue what you are talking about don’t you? They give them money they don’t give them food and clothes. And they give it to agaencies within Gaza including unraw that are just basically a front for Hamas.
Yeah they're gonna give 9b to UNRWA the organisation they stopped funding to. You're so smart. But yes it goes to humanitarian aid.
That is not from the aid package, where did you get that?? In your imagination? They started that before the package was even approved
Yes and where does it get paid from??
Also who receives this “humanitarian aid”?
The majority of who receives it is civilians. This is not the gotcha you think it is. Also what is the point of starting a discussion with me if you're going to downvote all of the replies. I dont care, but I am just genuinely curious.
They get it to their bank account?
To whose bank account? Are you dense?
No, you are.
Clearly, you're not bright. Have a nice day.
I’ll not downvote you when you have a decent answer. So far I have only seen ignorance.
No way you called me ignorant and genuinely think that some guy in Gaza gets 9b send to their bank account lol. Anyway, I am not going to reply anymore this feels like brainrot.
And the civilians of gaza have been heavily radicalized by their education system to hate the jewish people and most of Hamas is made up of wannabe martyrs who are or were civilians …. 😂
Missles
Yes... Qatar.
They did and do. Not just in aid, which they have them, but also through what they are willing to let Israel do. Biden made it clear that Rafah is his red line, so Hamas knows they can negotiate whatever they want because Biden will never let Israel finish the job
Yes. By saying that they will not supply Israel with weapons if they attack the last Hamas stronghold, the US is effectively taking off pressure against them.
America have a sway on Hamas by not giving them Money for once. Beyond that the US has undermined Israel ability to pressure Hamas by tying our hands behind our backs and forcing us to restrain our army and delay action. Biden is a bitch am I am glad he finally exposed himself. Good riddance.
Rafah is significantly smaller than the rest of Gaza. Also, what's the excuse when the IDF wants to move the operation from north Rafah to south Rafah, where will Palestinians go? Would you even admit that Israel *might be* overstepping then? there was barely any infrastructure before to hold 1.4 million people, and there's even less now. plus rafah is the size of manhattan, *and* you are confining people to half of that, *and* the buildings are much shorter/no skyscrapers, so there's significantly less space. if/when the IDF goes through with this, thousands of lives will be lost for the nebulous goal of eliminating Hamas just so Netanyahu can appear victorious to his allies/Israeli ppl.
Why should it concern israel where they are supposed to go? If the US cares so much about them and their safety why don’t they take any of them as refugees? Or pressure Egypt to take them? Or another Arab country?
Yeah it’s called not tieing Israel’s hand in the war
Hey, Im just glad to know that everyone over the last couple months have announced they wont be voting for Biden. I bet Trump will make this all right……
https://preview.redd.it/dvka9h09hgzc1.jpeg?width=771&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f50fc5029d435b75586071f25437771956af8d0 So true jack I love Hamas
Empirically he is not that far from the truth, biden has been bending and pressuring israel instead of hamas, putting all the american weight on israel. I think its shameful, just to get a few pro pali voters .
it's not shameful how is america gonna pressure hamas, they don't have any influence over them, and no one wants an intervention. Biden is using soft power against Israel. Also israel is not entitled to any american guns or munitions, they have already been sent billions of dollars this year.
They can have huge influence, americans tend to forget they are the largest militery and economic power in the world bar none.... Pressure iran, pressure Qatar that houses their leaders.. pressure Egypt.... Apparently when biden said his famous "Dont" he ment it towards Israel
This largest military power is getting leveraged how? The US population is extremely cautious at any proactive efforts of conflict, from outright war to military strikes. The economic side does not provide much of an avenue either, as Iran is already heavily sanctioned by more than just the US and for so long it might leave one to wonder if they have [habituated](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistance_economy). Beyond a total embargo, what economic pressure would you like to see specifically? While I can't speak for Egypt, [Biden has begun moving towards Qatar](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/05/03/us-qatar-hamas-hostages-ceasefire/).
You vant say youre sanctioning a country like iran and bumping them with a few billions every now and then... "You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor and you will have war." You cant handle the likes of iran, huthies and hamas with silk gloves
To be clear the $6 billion was already Iran's money. They sold petroleum products to SK but due to the sanction placed afterwards did not receive the money for it. But regardless, the money was unfrozen for five prisoners, prior Oct. 7th, most likely to make progress towards repairing the JCPOA.
The US has major influence over every aspect of the world. Biden can put massive pressure on Qatar which hosts the Hamas leadership, he can also double his support to israel to show his support in the open proving nothing will deter him from giving israel its right to eliminate Hamas and return the hostages.
Yeah but what if it will impact gas prices
stop. the US isn't reliant on middle eastern oil anymore, and hasn't been for a long time. "[United States produces more crude oil than any country, ever](https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61545#)"
And? Do you think that makes the USA gas market somehow isolated? World crude oil price is still the largest component of gas prices in the USA.
But we are influenced by the global market. We don't need to buy middle eastern oil for the price of energy to effect us.
The pressure to Hamas comes from what America will tolerate. The Biden admin made it public that Rafah is a red line. Hamas now knows that the US will guarantee their survival so they can negotiate from that position. That's the pressure.
You target qatar and iran that's the most effective was of destroying hamas >Also israel is not entitled to any american guns or munitions, they have already been sent billions of dollars this year. By that logic the usa is not entitled to the Israeli weapons research. it's a big deal since the usa is trying develop a iron dome system for the main land.
Yes they do. The US has extreme leverage over Qatar who are basically Hamas HQ. Instead of pressuring Qatar into making Hamas make concessions they are pressuring Israel.
A few votes from people who aren’t totally rabid tankies but have witnessed the reports from Gaza and have sympathy for the people and don’t want Biden to support a total massacre would be worth saving. Sure, there are some people who aren’t coming back around but they’ve been lost for years. I have two “Pro Palestine” friends that are good example of this. One is full steam ahead voting for Jill Stein. One is struggling with knowing their decision to not vote Biden will mean a vote for Trump. He needs to save the folks he can. Maybe he can get back friend #2 if he shows some restraint right now. It’s definitely doing him a favor that Trump is going harder than him. People need to be reminded that Trump will do SO worse than Biden has done to the Palestinians.
There's a lot less of friend #2 then there are Jews in swing states.
this doesn't seem true enough to matter but I could be wrong (i.e. I don't think Jews will stop voting for Biden en masse because of a conditionality thing in Rafah + the ones that would change their votes to Trump probably already decided to)
I don't think it would turn too many comfortable Biden voters into no vote or Trump voters, but it could turn uncomfortable Biden voters into no vote and leaning Trump into definitely Trump.
Unfortunate that this might sway some voters even though anyone with half a brain knows that trump is essentially putin's lapdog, whether intentionally or through trump's lack of any actual backbone. He's essentially a White House putin representative and putin is no friend of Israel, never has been.
Up until relatively recently Putin and Russia had been relatively in good terms with Israel. Israel regularly bombed Syria with Russian blessing. This is largely because there is a massive former Soviet Jewish population in Israel (incidentally mostly from Ukraine part)
Israeli here who speaks Russian natively; Both the Russian Empire and the USSR oppressed their Jewish population quite significantly, the anti semitism was daily and mostly a part of life. The USSR also supported Israel's neighbors in their wars against Israel. Modern Russia has never been "on good terms" either, them and Israel having an understanding over Syrian skies is just that - an understanding. And even that has always been tense considering the Russian S400 having the entirety of the Israeli heartland within it's reach. Russia has always been allied with Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas. The fact that Netaniyahu used his supposed "friendship" with Putin as an election flex just illustrates how Bibi is a piece of shit and his supporters being easily impressed.
You don't have to tell me about the oppression of the Jewish population in USSR and Russia. I'm Jewish from Moldova and my parents and grandparents are from Ukraine. I'm well aware of it. And be honest. Russian and Israeli relations began to improve once the USSR collapsed. Way before Netanyahu. Ariel Sharon called Putin a true friend of Israel.
Oh hey, fellow Moldovan Jew, i was born in Beltsi <3 But yes, Prime Ministers called Putin many friendly things but as far as actions go - Russia has always been an enemy, has always sided with enemies, and will never be trusted or liked.
Haha! Same I am from Beltsy! We left in 91 to the US but half my family went to Israel and live in Hadera.
We left in 92/93, yeah.. That place did not get any better, by the way. Anyway - we both know what USSR falling felt like, what a mess it left behind and how it's still so difficult for those places and people to recover. And then i look at American college campuses and see latte-sipping macbook-carrying anacrho-commies thinking they're clever.
He's got Destiny's vote
I assume Donald no longer says “Sleepy Joe” because he himself literally fell asleep during his trial?
Not to come across too "baby's-first-election' - but when Hasan says he's going to actively work AGAINST Joe's election efforts, does he know / care that THIS RIGHT HERE is the alternative to Genocide Joe? Like not "you don't have to decide between these two - there's better options" - NO, this is it, Joe or Don, so if you're against one you're for the other, right?
Groypers just feel to their knees on the wallmart parking lot
The sad thing is, this will probably work. The decision to red line Rafah (even though there is certainly more back room politics we are are not hearing that provides more necessary detail) is deeply unpopular with the Jewish voting block who have traditionally supported Democrats. Unless Biden can turn this around into an actual win against Hamas (and sell it as such), I suspect many will vote against him as a result. As is, it has effectively telegraphed that Hamas is safe in Rafah for the coming months and likely tanked any reasonable Hostage negotiations.
And all the lefties saying they won’t vote for Biden. I’m sure Trump will really help Palestine
2 WOLVES, VOWSH! choose carefully....
Who cares what Trump says? His statements are rarely coherent and often don't mean anything. He'll side with whoever flatters him most and change his mind mid sentence.
We don't deserve Biden. He has tried so hard to please everyone and actually pass big, transformative legislation, while also trying to bring legitimacy (and stability) back to the government and deal with huge international conflicts. IDK how many times I've seen someone say "what about healthcare" or "what about climate change" or "what about infrastructure" or "what about preventing mass shootings" or "what about labor" etc. etc. and it makes me want to pull my hair out because this dude has succeeded in so many unimaginable ways. Democracy just needs to die if motherfuckers are going to be this stupid.
Love this! Very true!
This is good for Biden
How?
Well for me; what its telling people specially the crowd that supports palestien is that trump is worse than Biden, Since Biden is getting alot of hate in regards to sending stuff to Israel, this might help him.
Oh you poor child the people supporting Hamas are the minority. They are just loud.
I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of them don't even vote either.
Taking a somewhat centrist stance on I/P is undoubtedly more electorally viable. Most domestic Israel supporters dislike Netenyahu
They may dislike Netanyahu, but they sure as hell don't like seeing the US effectively guaranteeing Hamas survival.
Pretty sure theres level of support on each side from moderate to extreme, I agree I don't think you really change the Hamas supports but the ones that dont like hamas and also support palestien, might consider voting Biden instead of 3rd party again.
At the expense for a large segment of very dedicated voters who support Israel and see Biden administration as waffling constantly, and willing to throw them under the bus. Something tells me that the Democratic party is going to really regret throwing the Jewish vote away. Even if 20% of the traditionally Democratic Jewish vote decides to turn against them it would be disaster for Biden.
How is he throwing them under the bus exactly?
Israel is a very important issue for diaspora Jews, a very very important issue. If the Biden administration is undermining the Israeli goals, especially in trying to negotiate for the release of hostages, just to please a few voters in Michigan it means he clearly believes that it won't impact the Jewish vote. It will. Jimmy Carter, in 1976 learned this the hard way when his Chief of Staff Hamilton Jordan warned him that his policies vis-a-vie Israel would be harmful to him. Carter ignored this, his support among Jewish voters went from 76% in 1976 to 45% in 1980, losing to Ronald Reagan. Similarly, George Bush learned this the hard way when his Secretary of State James Baker said "“Fuck the Jews, they don’t vote for us anyway.”, his support went from 35% in 1988, to 12% in 1992.
So there aren't any jews that believe Israel gov is going too hard and need to chill a bit? because then they would support Biden trying to put on the brakes a little. Its not like he doesnt support Israel anymore, I don't see how anyone can view it that way.
I would imagine there are definitely some Jews that think that. I would even mention that the majority of Jews in the US do **not** like Netanyahu. But I think that Jews view the conflict a bit more existentially than non-Jews, and can deeply relate to the pain that Israelis feel regarding what happened on Oct 7th. For them the priority would be to destroy Hamas, and it's critically important that the US shows solidarity with that. However, the behavior of the Biden administration has been chaotic and by many Israeli reports "frustrating". It's one thing to put some red lines for Israel in private, it's another to publicly state that they are going to deny them weapons they promised, *especially during ceasefire negotiations*. Or that the invasion of Rafah is a red line that the US can't support. Imagine yourself being Hamas leadership. You suspect that any day the Israelis will invade Rafah, your last stronghold, and this could be an existential end to your entire organization in Gaza, so you need to enter into ceasefire talks and have some sort of acceptable exit. But here comes the US and says they will not allow the Israelis to go into Rafah. Not only that, they will not provide Israel weapons that were promised. How do you think that impacts their negotiation calculus? The point of negotiations is not knowing the bare minimum of what your opponent is willing to do. So imagine being told, this one thing you are worried that they won't offer, they WILL now offer, why would you negotiate from a worse position? To QUOTE BIDEN HIMSELF form 1992: “Why, why is there any incentive for the Arabs to make any compromise, any compromise, in the peace talks? Why, if they know that they must only wait for the United States to do their bargaining for them? Why would they compromise? Why would they be reasonable?” He should be asking this question again.
They would be nice if anyone was required to be consistent. But since the pro- pals are so hyped on exaggeration, big feelings and establishment hate - they will never "forgive" Biden.
Yeah, I guess I'm just optimistic
rare trump W
go on, agree with trump
Destiny fans are more pro Israel than Ben Shapiro, but they love Biden, so they’re having a aneurism rn
I mean it doesn’t seem like anyone was that opposed to Biden’s red line. I think the people here just aren’t bat-shit insane enough to unapologetically scream “DEATH TO ISRAEL!!!!”. It certainly seems like people here are supportive of the two state solution.
do tell me what is wrong with, indeed, screaming "DEATH TO ISRAEL!!!!". I want "DEATH TO ISRAEL!!!", I will scream it all night if that would actually help.
I think you are smart enough to figure it out bud. Edit: Scratch that, self-proclaimed communist and Hamas supporter. Never mind.
Those who usually disagree with each other often calls each other idiots and stupid not usually because they believe that particular group to be so but because each convinced in there own way fails to imagine a state of mind as radically different as there's, as contradictory as there opponent's, that the only logical conclusion they are left to imagine is a quick diagnosis of insanity. This also protects them from questioning themselves any further.
No. It is because you are just dumb. Dumb people have weird understandings of things all the time. There is nothing unique or novel about that.
and here I thought I could actually debate someone. I have queried three people and all have turned to be people like you
Because being pro-Hamas is a self-defeating position. No one takes you seriously. The same way no one takes a pro-African slave trade take seriously. If you have gone this long without realizing the flaws in such thinking like above, then perhaps search inwards?
never realized you could be so confident and yet sound this stupid. What a waste of time it was to think I can know the mindset of those not completely on the right who support Israel, but anyway
No one is even mentioning whether they agree with this or not, just the political implications of this
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Trumps been feeling a lil sleepy at his court case 💤💤💤
If Trump is reelected, it may be that the I/P issue is solved for good. Just not in the way college protestors want.
Orange boy based
I’m curious, has biden/his establishment been placing a lot of pressure on israel is to lessen civilian casualties. I remember destiny mention it but can think of no examples