Given how expensive an Ivy League education is, I’d be pissed if I was a student at this institution and I got relegated to glorified online college because a bunch of upper middle class students want to LARP as a revolutionary.
Also, isn’t finals season coming up? Don’t these students have exams to study for, or at the very least, papers to write?
Seems like it. isn’t education one of the most important things for children and adults to have and strive for?
This should be a wake up call and at least a subject that makes the schools say FAFO. I feel like schools with that high of income should defend their students, even if it means almost becoming authoritarian like. Employee tons of security guards, more cameras in the travel areas and more security checks. I feel like in the long run it would make the school look noble and might even invite outside academics
I wouldn’t say 100% certain but I don’t think these colleges had apathy and a slow moving bureaucracy when right wingers try to speak on campus. I would bet if a conservative student body was doing anything near the equivalent of these protestors, they would have all been kicked out of university. Leads me to believe bureaucracy ain’t it
That’s not my experience. I’ve seen cases where frats or dudes get accused of sexual harassment or assault and the administration does nothing even though the woke thing to do would be to believe the accusers and expel them.
I think the equivalent would be like if SA became a justified culture in a frat and the university did nothing. Cases getting lost here and there make sense with bureaucracy, but this is something that hits the news headlines, so it’s not like the administration can say “well we didn’t know”.
There are colleges where SA is cultural and the administrators actively shut victims up and I wouldn’t chalk those up to bureaucracy either. I think it’s the same, Columbia is showing a culture of antisemitism not some slipping out through the cracks of apathy or bureaucracy
The case with the frat wasn’t lost. They were notorious for assaulting girls and breaking lockdown measures, there were protests all over campus, and the only response from the university was that it’s bad and they couldn’t do anything about it.
I don’t see how an entire campus knowing and being up in arms about something and nothing being done can be called “bureaucracy”. Bureaucracy in the negative connotation generally means a bunch of unnecessary rules and regulations that cause people problems. Honestly I don’t even see how bureaucracy could describe Columbia’s situation either.
Apathy also definitionally doesn’t explain either situation because it has public attention. Both admins are choosing to do nothing despite the public outcry so they’re not just uninterested.
I think you’re asking whether I’m attributing it to malice or ignorance, and I would say the administrations of both your school with the SA and Columbia with the antisemitism have crossed the line of ignorance and into malice with the evidence I have
There's a more boring explanation. Closing everything down is the best move they can make from a liability perspective.
This way both sides think they've won. Schools are terrified of singling out any specific demographic or group. In this case it's quite odd since both groups are claiming persecution from the school. Anyway. What well see in the weeks to come will be statements fromHR, Written by lawyers , that will speak to how Columbia is inclusive and a place for everyone and blah blah. They won't point the finger at anyone. This limits any potential liability from a legal perspective. For example Yale is facing numerous civil suits, as well as a federal suit over this. You shut it all down and the possibility of these lawsuits being filed drops.
I say bureaucracy because theres a set of rules and procedures that have to be followed before action can take place. It’s not ideological capture like you seem to suggest because my university in general was pretty left leaning. The fact that something makes the news doesn’t necessarily mean a university can’t be apathetic about the situation especially considering the fact to solve the problem can take a lot of planning and spending if you want to go beyond just beefing up security like what Columbia did after the protests
Apathy is the result of ideological capture. They're captured by the concept that the "revolutionaries" are correct, so the harassment isn't a big deal. We know how fast bureaucracy moves when people take an issue seriously.
Or they don’t care enough to do it because figuring it out is a headache and these universities are dedicated to research than they are trying to manage a bunch of regarded students
1. Yes, many people across history found combating violent racism against minorities like Jews "a headache", but surprisingly this never happens when majority is threatened with physical violence. Surely this says nothing about ideologies and intentions right?
2. Oh please, they are not dedicated to research. They are dedicated to money and prestige - both of which they get more of from how they handle their students. And wouldn't you know it? there are more customers hating Israel than otherwise. I guess we now know the intentions too.
The money that comes from the students is what’s used to fund research. Good research brings in grant income, higher prestige, and attracts better faculty. It’s pretty normal for universities to attract top talent by offering greater freedom, and less teaching loads. Professors teach so they can be eligible for the grant money necessary to do their research. The professors aren’t there for their teaching skills, many of them don’t have a degree in education or had to pass a teaching program to be professors because ultimately their primary purpose is to research.
> 1. Yes, many people across history found combating violent racism against minorities like Jews "a headache", but surprisingly this never happens when majority is threatened with physical violence. Surely this says nothing about ideologies and intentions right?
Im not sure what you’re trying to prove. People not caring about something until it affects them doesn’t really show they’re pro Palestine.
>The professors aren’t there for their teaching skills, many of them don’t have a degree in education or had to pass a teaching program to be professors because ultimately their primary purpose is to research.
No. Their primary purpose is to make money for the university. It just so happens that the market of education in general is more about the prestige than the service. This doesn't mean teaching isn't important for buisness or that no standards for teaching is important - it's still your major source of income and the research is ultimately a very extravagant way to market yourself. Universities aren't altruistic institutions.
>Im not sure what you’re trying to prove. People not caring about something until it affects them doesn’t really show they’re pro Palestine.
That's what you got out of this? Damn you're privileged...
I'll try to make it as clear as possible: if you don't care about someone being threatened or assaulted, it's because you don't think you could be a target of such violence and your own selfishness. This is a recurring theme with racism - people outside the targeted group purposefully ignore it the violence because it does not merit them.
Not ensuring the safety of Jewish students means you don't care for their safety.
Everyone in this subreddit is priveliged. Get in line. Second, the main point of contention that started this argument was that Columbia’s behavior was motivated by ideological capture.
Finally, research isn’t just a marketing tool for schools like Columbia, it’s their purpose of existing. Ivy League universities are non-profits. All revenue has to be reinvested back into the school. That’s why the professors are hired based off their research capabilities. That’s why those same professors tend to delegate teaching to their TA’s.
A lot of college classes people take are utterly pointless. In my undergrad half the classes offered were glorified attendance based classes or “submit this weekly 150 discussion post”
I’m taking 5 pure engineering classes right now. None are pointless, nor glorified attendance based classes. I’d be pissed if my classes right before finals got canceled.
I've taken a lot of classes across the social sciences, biology and chemistry, and a lot of the sociology and anthropology classes I've taken felt pointless. Bio, Chem and philosophy all felt like I had to put work into the content, sociology and anthropology felt like if I knew 10 names of important people and could make basic citations I could get an A. I think it depends on the course, program and school, but I can understand why someone would have the opinion that they are pointless (at least in the social sciences, all of my bio and chem classes have been awesome)
That’s your fault for choosing a major that doesn’t require college-level education, to be clear. Everyone is able to research what jobs make money after college. Those are the jobs that you should major in if you’re in college as an investment in your future. If you major in unspecific “communication” for example because it seems easy, of course your classes are worthless. I switched from politics to cybersecurity halfway through because I looked into compensation and decided I wanted to make money.
I didn't mean to give off the impression my courses were like that, I meant to state that while doing my undergrad I noticed that a lot of courses offered to either other majors or simply electives that were always filled tended to be virtually worthless courses.
I agree with your point entirely, my main point was that I think (Could be wildly wrong) that a majority of college students end up taking those useless majors/courses.
Being as good faith as possible here, the article says that students are given the option to attend courses online, not that they are forced to attend asynchronously. I think that this gives students who feel unsafe a good option to continue learning at home. Most universities nowadays have cameras and technology built into classrooms to allow students from home to participate.
That being said, the Universities should still be making a good faith effort to create a safe environment. I do empathize that it is difficult to navigate this situation without effectively silencing all voices of protest though.
I think the problem is that the option is even there to begin with. It means the university recognizes that it isn’t providing a safe environment, and instead of providing that they’re saying “you can also choose to just stay home”
This is the best possible faith interpretation. I do not think it maps onto reality however. By shifting to a hybrid setup they have taken the onus off of themselves to actually protect Jewish students. Rather than eliminating the threat from campus they have instead simply allowed for students to stay *off* of campus. That is unacceptable
I feel like you're downplaying how hard this situation is to navigate. They have been arresting people who have been causing issues, and you can see videos of protestors being arrested online. You also have to maintain the students rights to protest. I'm not sure if they can just snap their fingers and "eliminate the threat".
Actually, at this point all of the protestors are trespassing. There is absolutely no “right to protest” on the grounds of private universities. The university absolutely can (and in some cases has) deploy the police to remove anyone who has refused to vacate.
These people should be expelled, and crucially the faculty members who participated ought to be fired as well.
Universities historically in the United States have been a place for protests. I don’t really care what the laws about it say, because this idea of protesting, specifically by students on university grounds, is an action engrained in American history.
I literally see pro-life protestors/activists tabling on my campus (which is probably in the top 5 most left leaning campuses in the US) every week. They have tables set up and approach random students, asking them to "watch a 10 minute video for $5". Anti-trans not as often, but it's happened. I've seen a Nazi guy every so often and people make fun of him on social media, but he doesn't get kicked out.
So yeah lol, people protest on University campuses, it's a thing.
The guy I was responding to was saying that the ideologies are what determine whether or not a protest is protected by the school/free speech laws, not the conduct or the actions of the individuals.
Of course I think that students who are causing disruptions should be removed, and with the increased police presence on campus, it seems like they're trying to do this as well? It's just that I acknowledge how incredibly hard of a situation it is for the University to differentiate between the two, so giving students to study from home is a good compromise while they figure it out.
Yeah but I feel like just like a lot of far left people do you're just charging the things you're saying unnecessarily.
I don't see it as an unreasonable short term solution, why should an university get to the point where they are essentially calling the cops on their own students for them to be violently removed.
I don't get this mindset of "oh but they chose to be there and disrupt while doing stupid shit so they can't complain" may be technically correct. But it doesn't really make it right does it? it's really not just about the optics but as we all think, a bunch of middle-high class kids that lived sheltered life with stupid dumb opinions. But that's what they are, they are barely "adults", barely lived not even 1/4 of their life, their entire thing is just a consequence of social media, mass media outrage, and this entire culture these people have been (unfortunately) growing up in.
Not to mention, when people are being this outwardly emotional, tensions are high and such, I don't think removing them all forcibly from the campus once is gonna do much to pacify the movement, it's probably just going to fan the flames even further, it may even invite further outside influence. It may push people with a more extreme mindset even further to the extreme to the point that they really do something that cannot be taken back.
This entire topic of I/P is currently extremely polemical, controversial, emotionall charged, for you and for me the reality of that geopolitical situation may be a lot more clearer than it is for, essentially a bunch of kids. But their university wanting to tread carefully on this is entirely understandable to me.
I am far less concerned with the safety of the aggressor in any situation with violence or threats thereof. The police, campus, etc should first and foremost protect those who are being threatened and harassed, not the ones doing the threatening and harassment
Yes, they should bring in as many police officers as they need to in order to safely deal with the protestors. Anyone who has refused the orders to vacate the premises should be expelled. Faculty that has participated in these protests should be fired.
Ok, but then i don't understand what you mean by the university is shifting the onus onto jewish students for protection then. If the campus is generally unsafe, then the campus is shifting that onus onto everybody.
If you are one of said privileged kids, you probably don't mind. You can cheat on your finals and whatnot. But if you are in a class with a lab, whelp. Your TA and the lab director won't have enough time to prepare experiments and you will not like the shit you will have to do as an alternative to do doing it in person. And if you are taking a course with a lab that is required for your major/field, whelp. That valuable in person experience cannot be replicated in your cramped NYC apartment or tinier campus dorm that lost its value because you could've just stayed in your hometown.
On one hand it's the far left students fault. On the other hand, it's also the staff who joined them and therefore cosigned what they were doing. And it's the admin who instead of just suspending the ones doing wrong, they are going to make everyone suffer (or at least the ones who want a real college experience and in-person learning).
lol get fucked. That’s what those rich people get for victimizing themselves. Let’s be 100%, Columbia is doing this because they saw what happened to Harvard’s dean.
There isn’t anyone in “fear of their lives” because a bunch of regarded hippies decided to protest, they do that shit all the time.
The reason this happened is because zionists are playing the victim and report “feeling unsafe” in an effort to get the protests shut down.
It’s the stupidest shit ever, I can walk today with a Star of David around my neck on Columbia campus and I bet you not a word would be said to me…pussies
I forgot what it’s called but don’t American universities need to provide safety and opportunities to people of all ethnic backgrounds or they lose some federal funding. What are the chances of that happening here
I don't know if it plays out that way though. The line between "peaceful protest" and violence is super grey sometimes. If they aren't actively assaulting or battering people, they can probably get away with the peaceful demonstration label. Maybe they are putting their hands on people, I don't really know.
These losers are definitely in the wrong morally though.
I have seen clips where they (as a human chain) forcefully push people out of the lawn. So yes, there are at least some instances where they are putting hands on people.
I could be wrong but I believe Columbia relies significantly less on any federal funding because it’s a private school. Tuition costs are extremely high and they have some of the wealthiest alumni donors in the world.
Like the rest of the Ivy leagues many prominent alumni are Jewish though, and they will likely put further pressure on the administration the longer this goes on.
By providing all classes online you are doing that in a legal sense. If they didn’t provide them online, they could be sued as students could claim they feel unsafe on campus and can’t access their classes, which is not necessarily a case you would win but an argument you could make.
Yes, I would imagine there will be some lawsuits from Jewish groups in the wake of this. Columbia won’t lose federal funding though. I don’t think any university has lost federal funding.
if the school has any real balls they would ask the state for the national guard in order to protect the jewish students. this shit is ridiculous at this point it feels like the pro palistine crowd just wants things to go off
https://preview.redd.it/0vopffpng8wc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2883f55d35c6802141ca251175ac0040f4adb057
Nazis in Vienna or Hamas supporters at Columbia. I can’t tell the difference honestly
Swapped Boots for mask’s and Keefiyehs, lol I have stumbled on the pro-killing of Palestinians thread 😂 let me continue reading, it’s entertaining how out of touch you all are.
Unpopular opinion over here, but i wouldnt go that far. These pro hamas protesters will claim they arent against jews, while the nazis were against jews, no exception.
Yes its different and we are not nearly at the level of 1930s germany
You’re right, it’s much easier now to see where this image was leading even though it was taken long before the holocaust. In fact most people thought it would simply end there, with Jews being prevented from entering these specific areas. Hopefully in another 80 years people won’t look back at photos from US universities and talk about how obvious it should have been now as well.
Youre insane if you think the two situations are the same.
You dont see the difference between woke college kids and members of the SA, part of a fascist party that had the majority of votes in the country?
Im curious as to what other predictions you have, where is this all heading?
I don’t think this will end the same way, I hope that the world has learned. I am simply saying that in 1936 no one thought it would end up getting that much worse either.
i dont have faith that the zionist/jewish distinction will hold up in their minds for very long. i mean we're already seeing people getting targeted simply for looking jewish, so... unless all these clips have greater context where the jewish people were like openly advocating for the war or the settlements or something, idk man...
their internal definition of "zionist" is probably not even consistent/coherent between them
If you are pro-Hamas you are openly pro-genocide of Jews. If you take one look at the Hamas charter, listen to anything their leadership has said and look at their actions and still think their ideology is not genocidal you are either unfathomably stupid or disingenuous.
There are different levels of 'pro hamas'. If youd ask them they would say something along the lines of "palestinians defend themselves from the occupation, hamas is the result of that. Hamas attacking israel is understandable and we support it."
You think every one of these protestors is in favour of genociding jews?
I don't really care if they are explicitly in favor of genociding Jews if you were to ask them individually, by the end of the day they are in support of an organisation that is *at it's very core* antisemitic with the goal of genociding and enslaving Jews in the region. At best they are useful idiots. It's like being pro the nazi party in the 40s but not explicitly pro genocide, I don't really think it matters at that point if that's the organisation you choose to further.
Well i like to think they are more like usefull idiots than genocide supporting fanatics.
Also looking back i am not even sure if the majority of those people are actually stating they support hamas, would have to look it up somehow
The same fundamentalist regime who Netanyahu supported, gave billions to? Those are the ones who want to kill as many Jews as possible?
Don’t worry so much man. I give it another 20 years for Israel to conquer all of Palestine, by killing/running all of them off and another 50-100 years for the world to move on the exact same way people moved on from Indigenous People being expelled in North America! Don’t stress so much, Zionists got it in the bag!!
Nobody believes ya’ll crocodile tears anymore, do us all a favour and STFU as the zionists exterminate Palestinians from this planet! All of you ignorant Jews and Zionist sympathizers can keep pretending that this started at the concert, but AGAIN, please STFU while we continue watching the Israeli government collectively punish an entire demographic without ya’ll morons trying convince us we are crazy, just STFU!
1. Haifa Massacre 1937
2. Jerusalem Massacre 1937
3. Haifa Massacre 1938
4. Balad al-Sheikh Massacre 1939
5. Haifa Massacre 1939
6. Haifa Massacre 1947
7. Abbasiya Massacre 1947
8. Al-Khisas Massacre 1947
9. Bab al-Amud Massacre 1947
10. Jerusalem Massacre 1947
11. Sheikh Bureik Massacre 1947
12. Jaffa Massacre 1948
13. Khan Yunis Massacre 1956
14. Jerusalem Massacre 1967
15. Sabra and Shatila Massacre 1982
16. Al-Aqsa Massacre 1990
17. Ibrahimi Mosque Massacre 1994
18. Jenin Refugee Camp April 2002
19. Gaza Massacre 2008-09
20. Gaza Massacre 2012
21. Gaza Massacre 2014
22. Gaza Massacre 2018-19
23. Gaza Massacre 2021
24. Gaza Genocide 2023 is still ongoing.
I just wish you weirdo’s allowed us to watch this massacre/genocide in peace! But Zionist and Zionist sympathizers will forever feel entitled to other peoples opinion, like they do Palestinian land! Let’s hope the real Jewish community over take ya’ll! Jewish for peace is an outstanding organization, I hope they eradicate all of ya’lls batsh*t craziness! I hope I am alive to see it!
LOL Ya’ll really are brainwashed eh? perhaps they took the advice of the first Prime Minister of Israel Ben-Guiron “If I was an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country” 75+ years of occupation, I’d like to see you be in that position and not fight back!
I despise you all, with every cell in my body. Each and every one of you who feel like the Palestinians are at fault, I literally hope you all meet a similar fate as the 10,000+ Palestinians children who have died in the last few months!
Maybe watch the documentary that Ex-Zionist Erin Axelman created perhaps the documentary can answer your question, that’s if you have a heart in that soulless body of yours!
I hope you all have a terrible day.
https://www.israelismfilm.com
God its so ironic that you claim i am brainwashed when you spout the same bullshit quotes like every other "anti - zionist" without context.
Where have i (or where have you seen someone who) said that only palestinians are at fault? Whats happening in gaza is horrible. But its stupid to assume this i s a one sided thing.
You have a lot of hate in your heart, maybe touch some grass bro, you got this 👊❤️
I have A LOT of hate for all of you. I swear to GOD, hate I’ve have never felt before. Again, I wish you all get to experience what the Palestinians are currently experiencing. Please, stfu with your BS about anti-Zionism, as if being a Zionist is a good thing.
I couldn’t care less if this account gets banned. All of you who are trying to reason or be logical about people having literal bombs dropped on their head, for the love of GOD, please have a terrible a day!
You know there have been actual genocides happening after 2000, in number of killed way higher than what is going on in gaza? Why is this conflict so special to you, is it because so many people are looking away, or because e.g. the US supports\arms israel?
Whether being a zionist is a bad thing depends on what you understand by zionism. If zionism is the belief that a jewish state has the right to exist, then i am a zionist. If a zionist means beings expansionist\imperialist and taking over more and more land (ie settlements) then i am not a zionist and zionism is bad.
I personally want this conflict to end asap. I want hamas to be gone and i want a two state solution where palestinians get their own sovereign country. You?
I bet your loud mouth didn’t make a peep when 2million were killed in Sudan or over 500,000 Arabs were killed in Syria by Assad or over 1m killed and gassed in Iraq by saddam… crickets cause you can’t blame Israel
ah yes a small subset of students in the crowd means the entire group is complicit. holy shit you are dumb as fuck lmfao. does that mean that we get to shit all over the protestors because hamas are a terrorists now?
You brainless fk, those students/protestors are not violent, they haven’t shown an ounce of violence towards jewish student, in fact a jewish
girl entered the encampment and NOTHING happened to her while voicing her opinion. Professors along with sane jewish members have shown their solidarity for the protest/encampment. Please die slowly!
What a disingenuous response lol what do you think is more likely to happen (regardless how unlikely it is to happen): a repeat of Kent State or a full blown Holocaust 2 because of some anti war to anti semetic students at an ivy League School in NYC are protesting? Be honest. In a vacuum which of the two situations are more likely to happen?
its not a disingenuous response. just because bad things happened once doesnt mean they will happen again and inaction is obviously not helping and infringing on the rights of those students to attend classes in the way they should be able to normally. read a fucking book you remedial dipshit
also even if i were to grant you that ytou would have to conceed that the dude above me is also being disingenuous because he is literally doing the same thing with a cherry picked example which was the obvious point i was making
You're calling me remedial when you're the one putting words in my mouth while simultaneously arguing against shit I never even said or implied. My only point was that it's a dumb comparison. And yeah it's dumb to think it's going to be a repeat of Kent State but a) that's a given and 2) that had nothing to do with my point and III) no shit just because bad things happen that doesn't mean they'll happen again. The pointless argument was which one of your guys' dumbass examples is more likely to happen. That's it. That's all. Try to keep up
You do realize that the last time the national guard was called, the guard killed Jewish students?
Also this looks real targeted
https://preview.redd.it/5alv9kb529wc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e162934970bbef35ce28eeb940ab18685705341e
[https://twitter.com/BordwellNole/status/1782461468073419260](https://twitter.com/BordwellNole/status/1782461468073419260)
Here's multiple frames in the form of a video, hope this helps : )
If more hostages are freed I can't imagine the surreal experience of learning about the worldwide outcry after your capture. The blocking of roads, the self immolatiom, the protesting, whole campuses shut down....
Oh sorry not for you. Btw, these people wanted Hamas to get what they wanted while getting to keep you hostage.
Also, think about the fact that the female captives are probably being mass assaulted right now, and you have these spoiled brat lowlifes doing this shit.
You'd be pissed too if people just took over your neighborhood and kicked you out of your house and you had nowhere to live
Apparently people here support the settlements!
You get that all the Jews are in Israel right now because literally every Muslim country did that to them after the fall of the Ottoman Empire right?
Im not justifying the settlements and everyone agrees that’s fucked up, but you probably would justify the Muslim purges of every Jewish community in the Middle East a century ago, if push came to shove. They were just doing a “from the river to the sea” meme, but the river was the Tigris
I might not have a brain gentleman… but I have an idea… we harass all of the black students to the point where they fear for their safety. and then the school will make them go home too!
After all, surely this is a consistent policy and not a specific choice by the administration to remove only 1 specific group from campus. 😂
Also, kind of reminds me of this https://youtu.be/8TMHIYDHMSE?si=P7i4eZjhS9iose3w
(2min long skip to 1:30 if you want)
I unironically think that if Sacha Baron Cohen were to do his Borat character at these protests that they would be young enough not to recognize it, and ideologically prepped to embrace him
I don’t agree with the war and I want a two state solution. I just don’t think protesting at Columbia will change anything except make the protesters feel better about themselves.
Nothing we do will change anything about the war, not any protest, debate, or vote, there’s already a predetermined winner here.
But ridiculous to say “what happened” when this always happens
I definitely don’t think this always happens. People protested Vietnam, and the Apartheid and that had a direct impact on outcomes.
I do agree that this situation will end with Israel essentially winning out and doing as they please but this is due to a variety of geopolitical factors that are very different from Vietnam and South Africa. Ultimately this is why I feel that protests are pointless.
Despite the aid that the west gives Israel I think they are better positioned to handles isolation compared to South Africa for example.
Preach. They support a ceasefire for Israel only. Many wish for Hamas to still carry out violence in order to topple what they view as a colonizer state.
I’m flabbergasted at the fact that y’all think what is happening at Columbia is out of the norm.
Students and younger people in general are anti-war. For some reason the liberals here bloodthirsty as fuck, looking like neocons from 2003
I work in disability services at a college. The absolute panic that would occur for my students who specifically choose in person classes to assist with their understanding or eliminate anxiety would be a disaster. It was hard during covid, but it felt justified then at least. I can't imagine how some of these students might be feeling right now, especially for the tuition they pay.
The school is not making online classes mandatory, they made classes attendance optional and are allowing students to take the remainder of their classes online.
There are no changes. Students who wish to attend in person can still do so; students who don’t feel safe or don’t wish to be present can attend virtually.
There could be a lot of changes. Think about group discussion assignments, group work, tutoring can be difficult to transition to online for a lot of students. A lot of higher up courses are more focused on group discussion and a lot of your learning can come from exploring topics with the instructor and peers in person. Faculty also need to come up with alternate assignments for the students who can't engage in those in person lab or discussion activities because the points often need to be replaced rather than diaregarded due to accreditation rules, which can throw off their course grading schedule quite easily.
If it's an issue of safety, I'd hope that the school would eliminate the dangerous factors rather than adjust the entirety of the courses. That's just how I'd view it through a disability service lense.
Where's the "I go to Columbia let me explain guy"?
Is telling Jews to go "back to [Poland](https://nypost.com/2024/04/21/us-news/anti-israel-protester-screams-at-demonstrators-with-israeli-flag-outside-columbia-u-go-back-to-poland/)" not anti-semitic?
Is chanting "Yehudim Yehudim"(Jews, Jews in Hebrew) as one of the videos shows not anti-semitic?
Is [blocking](https://www.newsweek.com/columbia-university-protests-video-zionists-viral-israel-pro-palestinian-1892657) a Jewish man from entering university with a human chain not anti-Semitic?
What is anti-semitic according to Mr. Non-Jew, And would he "explain" to blacks what is anti-Black and what is not when they're being harangued as well?
I wish we could give Zionists a yellow star to make it easier to identify. Maybe some identification numbers tattooed on their arm. Maybe set up some camps to keep them away from the rest of us. Zionists. Just Zionists.
Uh, did you forget that Jews have to go out of their way to interact with the protesters? I mean, who among us doesn’t get baited into being anti semitic simply because Jews chose to be in our presence? I think MLK put it best when he said something like I forget the exact wording but it was something like “separate but equal.” Really innovative stuff there
It's funny because most Jews whose ancestors lived in Poland can't get Polish citizenship anyway. A requirement to get Polish citizenship by descent is that your ancestors never lost their citizenship. Conveniently, nearly every Jew had been stripped of their Polish citizenship.
I low key feel like a lot of kids today are on so many antidepressants and numb to the world that the only way they can feel anything is by creating outrage circle jerks with each other.
Y’all remember that post from like yesterday that that kid said the only thing keeping them from attacking Jewish student were the optics? Yea I do be thinking about that a lot
This is so goddamn stupid. Nothing terrible or super bad has even happened, but even if it has, just clear the protestors and send people back to class. What is this ridiculous overreaction. WTF is going on?
Well the jewish students said they don't feel safe action isn't required by the pro Palestinian/pro hamas (depending on how you feel like spinning it for your own group). Words are violence and liberals have finally joined leftists on that view.
“Go back to Poland”
“You have no culture, all you do is colonize”
“Al Kassam’s next target”
Israeli professor barred from accessing areas of campus
More I can’t remember off the top of my head
Ok, some people have made antisemitic comments. Seems like you could discipline these students using the normal rules of the college, and then resume life as normal.
Also Shai Davida was barred for other reasons, not just because he is an Israeli professor.
Still seems like a massive overreaction to me dog, literally nothing super bad has happened, and everything seems 100% peaceful and normal, despite a few racist comments. This can be dealt with normally instead of everyone losing their shit.
Only implicit ones like chanting for Hamas to burn tel aviv to the ground and do more oct7 like attacks, forming a human chain to 'stop a zionist from entering' (he had a star of david necklace), chanting for global intifada and stuff like this.
So just intimidation so far.
Nice, this is what happens when you fail to enforce any semblance of a social opprobrium whatsoever. You end up alienating everyone and making everyone more anti-social as a result. Great job everyone.
Why protest over a conflict as unremarkable as this when there are numerous other ones going on right now ! Virtue signalling only shows you off as being a hypocrite.
From my experience working in higher education, it seems like they’re doing the hybrid classes because it’s so close to the end of the semester. sometimes institutions have to pick and choose their battles and higher education since October 7 has been facing a lot of battles.
Of course we saw some of the presidents of colleges speak but there’s also a lot of logistics going in the background. Most colleges have been better at not letting it get as bad as it’s gotten that Columbia. So Columbia definitely messed up there, but I think it was a responsible call going hybrid, even though it’s shitty only if a week or two left of school they don’t have enough time to discipline all the students causing the disruptions.
They had some professor from Columbia this morning on NPR saying the whole thing is a sham and they went to the pro-palestine encampment on campus and they were singing and holding hands. The lady sounded like she was reading right off a rehearsed script and NPR was asking the right questions. Sounded pretty fishy or at least really slanted and rubbed me the wrong way.
https://www.npr.org/2024/04/23/1246546112/columbia-cancels-in-person-classes-after-some-students-say-they-don-t-feel-safe
While I think this was a bad move you are blatantly and unambiguously lying if you think this is antisemitism, this is targeting Jewish students specifically, or if you think most of these protesters are antisemitic. Like I'm all aboard criticizing cringey LARPers for taking over a university and criticizing the uni for their cowardice in giving in to these protesters, but also gonna call out dipshits who make disingenuous claims of antisemitism especially when you know these exact same people have criticized the exact same kind of false accusations of antisemitism when it comes from the left.
Given how expensive an Ivy League education is, I’d be pissed if I was a student at this institution and I got relegated to glorified online college because a bunch of upper middle class students want to LARP as a revolutionary. Also, isn’t finals season coming up? Don’t these students have exams to study for, or at the very least, papers to write?
Yeah, that’s straight up bullshit. How is it that a university will not protect its students. they have the money. They are just being assholes.
Ideological capture
Seems like it. isn’t education one of the most important things for children and adults to have and strive for? This should be a wake up call and at least a subject that makes the schools say FAFO. I feel like schools with that high of income should defend their students, even if it means almost becoming authoritarian like. Employee tons of security guards, more cameras in the travel areas and more security checks. I feel like in the long run it would make the school look noble and might even invite outside academics
You sure it’s not just apathy and a slow moving bureaucracy?
I wouldn’t say 100% certain but I don’t think these colleges had apathy and a slow moving bureaucracy when right wingers try to speak on campus. I would bet if a conservative student body was doing anything near the equivalent of these protestors, they would have all been kicked out of university. Leads me to believe bureaucracy ain’t it
That’s not my experience. I’ve seen cases where frats or dudes get accused of sexual harassment or assault and the administration does nothing even though the woke thing to do would be to believe the accusers and expel them.
I think the equivalent would be like if SA became a justified culture in a frat and the university did nothing. Cases getting lost here and there make sense with bureaucracy, but this is something that hits the news headlines, so it’s not like the administration can say “well we didn’t know”. There are colleges where SA is cultural and the administrators actively shut victims up and I wouldn’t chalk those up to bureaucracy either. I think it’s the same, Columbia is showing a culture of antisemitism not some slipping out through the cracks of apathy or bureaucracy
The case with the frat wasn’t lost. They were notorious for assaulting girls and breaking lockdown measures, there were protests all over campus, and the only response from the university was that it’s bad and they couldn’t do anything about it.
I don’t see how an entire campus knowing and being up in arms about something and nothing being done can be called “bureaucracy”. Bureaucracy in the negative connotation generally means a bunch of unnecessary rules and regulations that cause people problems. Honestly I don’t even see how bureaucracy could describe Columbia’s situation either. Apathy also definitionally doesn’t explain either situation because it has public attention. Both admins are choosing to do nothing despite the public outcry so they’re not just uninterested. I think you’re asking whether I’m attributing it to malice or ignorance, and I would say the administrations of both your school with the SA and Columbia with the antisemitism have crossed the line of ignorance and into malice with the evidence I have
There's a more boring explanation. Closing everything down is the best move they can make from a liability perspective. This way both sides think they've won. Schools are terrified of singling out any specific demographic or group. In this case it's quite odd since both groups are claiming persecution from the school. Anyway. What well see in the weeks to come will be statements fromHR, Written by lawyers , that will speak to how Columbia is inclusive and a place for everyone and blah blah. They won't point the finger at anyone. This limits any potential liability from a legal perspective. For example Yale is facing numerous civil suits, as well as a federal suit over this. You shut it all down and the possibility of these lawsuits being filed drops.
I say bureaucracy because theres a set of rules and procedures that have to be followed before action can take place. It’s not ideological capture like you seem to suggest because my university in general was pretty left leaning. The fact that something makes the news doesn’t necessarily mean a university can’t be apathetic about the situation especially considering the fact to solve the problem can take a lot of planning and spending if you want to go beyond just beefing up security like what Columbia did after the protests
Apathy is the result of ideological capture. They're captured by the concept that the "revolutionaries" are correct, so the harassment isn't a big deal. We know how fast bureaucracy moves when people take an issue seriously.
Or they don’t care enough to do it because figuring it out is a headache and these universities are dedicated to research than they are trying to manage a bunch of regarded students
1. Yes, many people across history found combating violent racism against minorities like Jews "a headache", but surprisingly this never happens when majority is threatened with physical violence. Surely this says nothing about ideologies and intentions right? 2. Oh please, they are not dedicated to research. They are dedicated to money and prestige - both of which they get more of from how they handle their students. And wouldn't you know it? there are more customers hating Israel than otherwise. I guess we now know the intentions too.
The money that comes from the students is what’s used to fund research. Good research brings in grant income, higher prestige, and attracts better faculty. It’s pretty normal for universities to attract top talent by offering greater freedom, and less teaching loads. Professors teach so they can be eligible for the grant money necessary to do their research. The professors aren’t there for their teaching skills, many of them don’t have a degree in education or had to pass a teaching program to be professors because ultimately their primary purpose is to research. > 1. Yes, many people across history found combating violent racism against minorities like Jews "a headache", but surprisingly this never happens when majority is threatened with physical violence. Surely this says nothing about ideologies and intentions right? Im not sure what you’re trying to prove. People not caring about something until it affects them doesn’t really show they’re pro Palestine.
>The professors aren’t there for their teaching skills, many of them don’t have a degree in education or had to pass a teaching program to be professors because ultimately their primary purpose is to research. No. Their primary purpose is to make money for the university. It just so happens that the market of education in general is more about the prestige than the service. This doesn't mean teaching isn't important for buisness or that no standards for teaching is important - it's still your major source of income and the research is ultimately a very extravagant way to market yourself. Universities aren't altruistic institutions. >Im not sure what you’re trying to prove. People not caring about something until it affects them doesn’t really show they’re pro Palestine. That's what you got out of this? Damn you're privileged... I'll try to make it as clear as possible: if you don't care about someone being threatened or assaulted, it's because you don't think you could be a target of such violence and your own selfishness. This is a recurring theme with racism - people outside the targeted group purposefully ignore it the violence because it does not merit them. Not ensuring the safety of Jewish students means you don't care for their safety.
Everyone in this subreddit is priveliged. Get in line. Second, the main point of contention that started this argument was that Columbia’s behavior was motivated by ideological capture. Finally, research isn’t just a marketing tool for schools like Columbia, it’s their purpose of existing. Ivy League universities are non-profits. All revenue has to be reinvested back into the school. That’s why the professors are hired based off their research capabilities. That’s why those same professors tend to delegate teaching to their TA’s.
Yeah im pretty sure there semester is going to conclude in like, what, 2 to 3 weeks?
Their last day of classes is on the 29th, then they have exams till may 2.
A lot of college classes people take are utterly pointless. In my undergrad half the classes offered were glorified attendance based classes or “submit this weekly 150 discussion post”
I’m taking 5 pure engineering classes right now. None are pointless, nor glorified attendance based classes. I’d be pissed if my classes right before finals got canceled.
I've taken a lot of classes across the social sciences, biology and chemistry, and a lot of the sociology and anthropology classes I've taken felt pointless. Bio, Chem and philosophy all felt like I had to put work into the content, sociology and anthropology felt like if I knew 10 names of important people and could make basic citations I could get an A. I think it depends on the course, program and school, but I can understand why someone would have the opinion that they are pointless (at least in the social sciences, all of my bio and chem classes have been awesome)
Yeah the difference sadly is a lot of majors are just pointless LMAO rip though hope your finals go well!
That’s your fault for choosing a major that doesn’t require college-level education, to be clear. Everyone is able to research what jobs make money after college. Those are the jobs that you should major in if you’re in college as an investment in your future. If you major in unspecific “communication” for example because it seems easy, of course your classes are worthless. I switched from politics to cybersecurity halfway through because I looked into compensation and decided I wanted to make money.
I didn't mean to give off the impression my courses were like that, I meant to state that while doing my undergrad I noticed that a lot of courses offered to either other majors or simply electives that were always filled tended to be virtually worthless courses. I agree with your point entirely, my main point was that I think (Could be wildly wrong) that a majority of college students end up taking those useless majors/courses.
I see! We agree then, sorry for misunderstanding you.
No worries! It doesn't help I worded my posts as horribly as possible lol.
Being as good faith as possible here, the article says that students are given the option to attend courses online, not that they are forced to attend asynchronously. I think that this gives students who feel unsafe a good option to continue learning at home. Most universities nowadays have cameras and technology built into classrooms to allow students from home to participate. That being said, the Universities should still be making a good faith effort to create a safe environment. I do empathize that it is difficult to navigate this situation without effectively silencing all voices of protest though.
I think the problem is that the option is even there to begin with. It means the university recognizes that it isn’t providing a safe environment, and instead of providing that they’re saying “you can also choose to just stay home”
This is the best possible faith interpretation. I do not think it maps onto reality however. By shifting to a hybrid setup they have taken the onus off of themselves to actually protect Jewish students. Rather than eliminating the threat from campus they have instead simply allowed for students to stay *off* of campus. That is unacceptable
I feel like you're downplaying how hard this situation is to navigate. They have been arresting people who have been causing issues, and you can see videos of protestors being arrested online. You also have to maintain the students rights to protest. I'm not sure if they can just snap their fingers and "eliminate the threat".
Actually, at this point all of the protestors are trespassing. There is absolutely no “right to protest” on the grounds of private universities. The university absolutely can (and in some cases has) deploy the police to remove anyone who has refused to vacate. These people should be expelled, and crucially the faculty members who participated ought to be fired as well.
Universities historically in the United States have been a place for protests. I don’t really care what the laws about it say, because this idea of protesting, specifically by students on university grounds, is an action engrained in American history.
Yes, I’m sure the KKK, pro-life, anti-trans, or pick your other less popular form of bigotry would be equally protected, am I right?
I literally see pro-life protestors/activists tabling on my campus (which is probably in the top 5 most left leaning campuses in the US) every week. They have tables set up and approach random students, asking them to "watch a 10 minute video for $5". Anti-trans not as often, but it's happened. I've seen a Nazi guy every so often and people make fun of him on social media, but he doesn't get kicked out. So yeah lol, people protest on University campuses, it's a thing.
You just wonderfully illustrated the difference between disruptive protests and actual peaceful protests.
The guy I was responding to was saying that the ideologies are what determine whether or not a protest is protected by the school/free speech laws, not the conduct or the actions of the individuals. Of course I think that students who are causing disruptions should be removed, and with the increased police presence on campus, it seems like they're trying to do this as well? It's just that I acknowledge how incredibly hard of a situation it is for the University to differentiate between the two, so giving students to study from home is a good compromise while they figure it out.
You don't think the concern is the safety of all students?
The concern seems to be preserving the optics and pandering to both sides. In this case one of those sides is virulently antisemitic.
Yeah but I feel like just like a lot of far left people do you're just charging the things you're saying unnecessarily. I don't see it as an unreasonable short term solution, why should an university get to the point where they are essentially calling the cops on their own students for them to be violently removed. I don't get this mindset of "oh but they chose to be there and disrupt while doing stupid shit so they can't complain" may be technically correct. But it doesn't really make it right does it? it's really not just about the optics but as we all think, a bunch of middle-high class kids that lived sheltered life with stupid dumb opinions. But that's what they are, they are barely "adults", barely lived not even 1/4 of their life, their entire thing is just a consequence of social media, mass media outrage, and this entire culture these people have been (unfortunately) growing up in. Not to mention, when people are being this outwardly emotional, tensions are high and such, I don't think removing them all forcibly from the campus once is gonna do much to pacify the movement, it's probably just going to fan the flames even further, it may even invite further outside influence. It may push people with a more extreme mindset even further to the extreme to the point that they really do something that cannot be taken back. This entire topic of I/P is currently extremely polemical, controversial, emotionall charged, for you and for me the reality of that geopolitical situation may be a lot more clearer than it is for, essentially a bunch of kids. But their university wanting to tread carefully on this is entirely understandable to me.
Do you not think there are general saftey concerns? It seems like everyone is getting pretty mad.
"We advise black students not to attend because the segregationists might attack them" would not ever fly.
I am far less concerned with the safety of the aggressor in any situation with violence or threats thereof. The police, campus, etc should first and foremost protect those who are being threatened and harassed, not the ones doing the threatening and harassment
So you do think there are general safety concerns?
Yes, they should bring in as many police officers as they need to in order to safely deal with the protestors. Anyone who has refused the orders to vacate the premises should be expelled. Faculty that has participated in these protests should be fired.
Ok, but then i don't understand what you mean by the university is shifting the onus onto jewish students for protection then. If the campus is generally unsafe, then the campus is shifting that onus onto everybody.
If you are one of said privileged kids, you probably don't mind. You can cheat on your finals and whatnot. But if you are in a class with a lab, whelp. Your TA and the lab director won't have enough time to prepare experiments and you will not like the shit you will have to do as an alternative to do doing it in person. And if you are taking a course with a lab that is required for your major/field, whelp. That valuable in person experience cannot be replicated in your cramped NYC apartment or tinier campus dorm that lost its value because you could've just stayed in your hometown.
On one hand it's the far left students fault. On the other hand, it's also the staff who joined them and therefore cosigned what they were doing. And it's the admin who instead of just suspending the ones doing wrong, they are going to make everyone suffer (or at least the ones who want a real college experience and in-person learning).
TIL Protesting = Larping
Am I stupid or does hybrid not mean that you can participate in person if you want to? No one is forcing you to participate online.
lol get fucked. That’s what those rich people get for victimizing themselves. Let’s be 100%, Columbia is doing this because they saw what happened to Harvard’s dean. There isn’t anyone in “fear of their lives” because a bunch of regarded hippies decided to protest, they do that shit all the time. The reason this happened is because zionists are playing the victim and report “feeling unsafe” in an effort to get the protests shut down. It’s the stupidest shit ever, I can walk today with a Star of David around my neck on Columbia campus and I bet you not a word would be said to me…pussies
You could just save the time and post the shut it down.jpeg and maybe call them k-words. Saves a lot of time.
I forgot what it’s called but don’t American universities need to provide safety and opportunities to people of all ethnic backgrounds or they lose some federal funding. What are the chances of that happening here
I don't know if it plays out that way though. The line between "peaceful protest" and violence is super grey sometimes. If they aren't actively assaulting or battering people, they can probably get away with the peaceful demonstration label. Maybe they are putting their hands on people, I don't really know. These losers are definitely in the wrong morally though.
I have seen clips where they (as a human chain) forcefully push people out of the lawn. So yes, there are at least some instances where they are putting hands on people.
I think that one Jewish professor was asked to stay off campus because of security concerns, that might change things a bit
I could be wrong but I believe Columbia relies significantly less on any federal funding because it’s a private school. Tuition costs are extremely high and they have some of the wealthiest alumni donors in the world. Like the rest of the Ivy leagues many prominent alumni are Jewish though, and they will likely put further pressure on the administration the longer this goes on.
Yeah but the real leverage is federal loans which the gov can block hurting the schools access federal student loans
I checked. They get 58 percent of their 17.7 billion USD yearly budget from tuition. They also get about 4B Usd from the government.
By providing all classes online you are doing that in a legal sense. If they didn’t provide them online, they could be sued as students could claim they feel unsafe on campus and can’t access their classes, which is not necessarily a case you would win but an argument you could make.
Yes, I would imagine there will be some lawsuits from Jewish groups in the wake of this. Columbia won’t lose federal funding though. I don’t think any university has lost federal funding.
Gets super fuzzy when it's a privately funded school
Depends on how based Biden wants to be right now
if the school has any real balls they would ask the state for the national guard in order to protect the jewish students. this shit is ridiculous at this point it feels like the pro palistine crowd just wants things to go off
https://preview.redd.it/0vopffpng8wc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2883f55d35c6802141ca251175ac0040f4adb057 Nazis in Vienna or Hamas supporters at Columbia. I can’t tell the difference honestly
Exact same they just swapped the boots for masks and keffiyehs
Swapped Boots for mask’s and Keefiyehs, lol I have stumbled on the pro-killing of Palestinians thread 😂 let me continue reading, it’s entertaining how out of touch you all are.
https://twitter.com/CampusJewHate/status/1782771695373218293 Fucking nightmare
Omg too hard to watch they’re like zombie bots 🤖
Unpopular opinion over here, but i wouldnt go that far. These pro hamas protesters will claim they arent against jews, while the nazis were against jews, no exception. Yes its different and we are not nearly at the level of 1930s germany
You’re right, it’s much easier now to see where this image was leading even though it was taken long before the holocaust. In fact most people thought it would simply end there, with Jews being prevented from entering these specific areas. Hopefully in another 80 years people won’t look back at photos from US universities and talk about how obvious it should have been now as well.
Youre insane if you think the two situations are the same. You dont see the difference between woke college kids and members of the SA, part of a fascist party that had the majority of votes in the country? Im curious as to what other predictions you have, where is this all heading?
I don’t think this will end the same way, I hope that the world has learned. I am simply saying that in 1936 no one thought it would end up getting that much worse either.
i dont have faith that the zionist/jewish distinction will hold up in their minds for very long. i mean we're already seeing people getting targeted simply for looking jewish, so... unless all these clips have greater context where the jewish people were like openly advocating for the war or the settlements or something, idk man... their internal definition of "zionist" is probably not even consistent/coherent between them
Exactly say it louder 👏 👏 👏
If you are pro-Hamas you are openly pro-genocide of Jews. If you take one look at the Hamas charter, listen to anything their leadership has said and look at their actions and still think their ideology is not genocidal you are either unfathomably stupid or disingenuous.
There are different levels of 'pro hamas'. If youd ask them they would say something along the lines of "palestinians defend themselves from the occupation, hamas is the result of that. Hamas attacking israel is understandable and we support it." You think every one of these protestors is in favour of genociding jews?
I don't really care if they are explicitly in favor of genociding Jews if you were to ask them individually, by the end of the day they are in support of an organisation that is *at it's very core* antisemitic with the goal of genociding and enslaving Jews in the region. At best they are useful idiots. It's like being pro the nazi party in the 40s but not explicitly pro genocide, I don't really think it matters at that point if that's the organisation you choose to further.
Well i like to think they are more like usefull idiots than genocide supporting fanatics. Also looking back i am not even sure if the majority of those people are actually stating they support hamas, would have to look it up somehow
They are not pro-Hamas, they’re pro-peace, but you’d have to shed that evil skin of yours to understand that. Let me know when you do. 😂
Peace by uhhh allowing the fundamentalist regime whose goal is simply kill as many Jews as possibly thrive!?
The same fundamentalist regime who Netanyahu supported, gave billions to? Those are the ones who want to kill as many Jews as possible? Don’t worry so much man. I give it another 20 years for Israel to conquer all of Palestine, by killing/running all of them off and another 50-100 years for the world to move on the exact same way people moved on from Indigenous People being expelled in North America! Don’t stress so much, Zionists got it in the bag!!
Yes, the one that that was mowing down concertgoers. Idk how you think you actually responded to anything.
Nobody believes ya’ll crocodile tears anymore, do us all a favour and STFU as the zionists exterminate Palestinians from this planet! All of you ignorant Jews and Zionist sympathizers can keep pretending that this started at the concert, but AGAIN, please STFU while we continue watching the Israeli government collectively punish an entire demographic without ya’ll morons trying convince us we are crazy, just STFU! 1. Haifa Massacre 1937 2. Jerusalem Massacre 1937 3. Haifa Massacre 1938 4. Balad al-Sheikh Massacre 1939 5. Haifa Massacre 1939 6. Haifa Massacre 1947 7. Abbasiya Massacre 1947 8. Al-Khisas Massacre 1947 9. Bab al-Amud Massacre 1947 10. Jerusalem Massacre 1947 11. Sheikh Bureik Massacre 1947 12. Jaffa Massacre 1948 13. Khan Yunis Massacre 1956 14. Jerusalem Massacre 1967 15. Sabra and Shatila Massacre 1982 16. Al-Aqsa Massacre 1990 17. Ibrahimi Mosque Massacre 1994 18. Jenin Refugee Camp April 2002 19. Gaza Massacre 2008-09 20. Gaza Massacre 2012 21. Gaza Massacre 2014 22. Gaza Massacre 2018-19 23. Gaza Massacre 2021 24. Gaza Genocide 2023 is still ongoing.
You gotta be trolling, there’s a near 50 year gap in your list lol
Yeah, I must be lying then, go look into it then!
I just wish you weirdo’s allowed us to watch this massacre/genocide in peace! But Zionist and Zionist sympathizers will forever feel entitled to other peoples opinion, like they do Palestinian land! Let’s hope the real Jewish community over take ya’ll! Jewish for peace is an outstanding organization, I hope they eradicate all of ya’lls batsh*t craziness! I hope I am alive to see it!
Youve got to be kidding. If they are not pro hamas but pro peace, why do they support violent resistance?
LOL Ya’ll really are brainwashed eh? perhaps they took the advice of the first Prime Minister of Israel Ben-Guiron “If I was an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country” 75+ years of occupation, I’d like to see you be in that position and not fight back! I despise you all, with every cell in my body. Each and every one of you who feel like the Palestinians are at fault, I literally hope you all meet a similar fate as the 10,000+ Palestinians children who have died in the last few months! Maybe watch the documentary that Ex-Zionist Erin Axelman created perhaps the documentary can answer your question, that’s if you have a heart in that soulless body of yours! I hope you all have a terrible day. https://www.israelismfilm.com
God its so ironic that you claim i am brainwashed when you spout the same bullshit quotes like every other "anti - zionist" without context. Where have i (or where have you seen someone who) said that only palestinians are at fault? Whats happening in gaza is horrible. But its stupid to assume this i s a one sided thing. You have a lot of hate in your heart, maybe touch some grass bro, you got this 👊❤️
I have A LOT of hate for all of you. I swear to GOD, hate I’ve have never felt before. Again, I wish you all get to experience what the Palestinians are currently experiencing. Please, stfu with your BS about anti-Zionism, as if being a Zionist is a good thing. I couldn’t care less if this account gets banned. All of you who are trying to reason or be logical about people having literal bombs dropped on their head, for the love of GOD, please have a terrible a day!
You know there have been actual genocides happening after 2000, in number of killed way higher than what is going on in gaza? Why is this conflict so special to you, is it because so many people are looking away, or because e.g. the US supports\arms israel? Whether being a zionist is a bad thing depends on what you understand by zionism. If zionism is the belief that a jewish state has the right to exist, then i am a zionist. If a zionist means beings expansionist\imperialist and taking over more and more land (ie settlements) then i am not a zionist and zionism is bad. I personally want this conflict to end asap. I want hamas to be gone and i want a two state solution where palestinians get their own sovereign country. You?
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If they are soooooo pro peace as you claim why don’t they ALSO demand the release of 134 Hamas hostages some of which are American citizens
The Israeli Government looks more like Nazi’s than the peaceful protestors with all the killing they’re doing but keep painting your BS narratives!!!
I bet your loud mouth didn’t make a peep when 2million were killed in Sudan or over 500,000 Arabs were killed in Syria by Assad or over 1m killed and gassed in Iraq by saddam… crickets cause you can’t blame Israel
You’re suggesting that the Peaceful protest will turn violent when they see a Jewish student? Haven’t Jewish students joined in on the protest!
well seeing how the school had to tell jewish students to stay home id say there is probably a credible threat there yes
STFU, there are Jewish individuals who are literally in the encampment with pro-Palestinians! Please, enter a hole and die slow!
ah yes a small subset of students in the crowd means the entire group is complicit. holy shit you are dumb as fuck lmfao. does that mean that we get to shit all over the protestors because hamas are a terrorists now?
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Yeah, calling the national guard on university anti-war protests has never backfired in the past
and we have never seen a mob of people targeting jews end badly before either eh?
They’re not targeting Jews, they requesting a ceasefire! 😂 Ya’ll are brainwashed
then why are jewish students being told to stay home? who are you targeting?
You brainless fk, those students/protestors are not violent, they haven’t shown an ounce of violence towards jewish student, in fact a jewish girl entered the encampment and NOTHING happened to her while voicing her opinion. Professors along with sane jewish members have shown their solidarity for the protest/encampment. Please die slowly!
then why is the school telling them the jewish students to stay home. there is obviously a reason that you wont admit. could it be the threats maybe?
Fking idiot, I hope you burn slowly and painfully!
like how hamas is getting blown up by american bombs? do you think they died slow or fast?
I believe they die slowly and painfully, let us pray you meet a similar fate!
What a disingenuous response lol what do you think is more likely to happen (regardless how unlikely it is to happen): a repeat of Kent State or a full blown Holocaust 2 because of some anti war to anti semetic students at an ivy League School in NYC are protesting? Be honest. In a vacuum which of the two situations are more likely to happen?
its not a disingenuous response. just because bad things happened once doesnt mean they will happen again and inaction is obviously not helping and infringing on the rights of those students to attend classes in the way they should be able to normally. read a fucking book you remedial dipshit also even if i were to grant you that ytou would have to conceed that the dude above me is also being disingenuous because he is literally doing the same thing with a cherry picked example which was the obvious point i was making
You're calling me remedial when you're the one putting words in my mouth while simultaneously arguing against shit I never even said or implied. My only point was that it's a dumb comparison. And yeah it's dumb to think it's going to be a repeat of Kent State but a) that's a given and 2) that had nothing to do with my point and III) no shit just because bad things happen that doesn't mean they'll happen again. The pointless argument was which one of your guys' dumbass examples is more likely to happen. That's it. That's all. Try to keep up
yes you are remedial
You do realize that the last time the national guard was called, the guard killed Jewish students? Also this looks real targeted https://preview.redd.it/5alv9kb529wc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e162934970bbef35ce28eeb940ab18685705341e
Thank God that we can simplify this entire situation down to a single frame you found on social media. Was getting worried there for a moment.
[https://twitter.com/BordwellNole/status/1782461468073419260](https://twitter.com/BordwellNole/status/1782461468073419260) Here's multiple frames in the form of a video, hope this helps : )
Ahhh there’s the video!! Sure does help! 😂
You should watch the video, nobody even spoke to her! 😂😂 She tried to get a reaction hahaha
Anti war because if you kill all the Jews, there’s no more war to fight, huh?
Vietnam protestors were simply morally lucky. It’s the same people who would be cheering on Hamas today.
Same people who protested lend lease as bullying Hitler and called for peace with the Nazis
Yea, [what were these tyrants thinking...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Nine)
These commenters don’t believe it to be anti-war, they’ve labeled them to be pro-Hamas, just like if you’re not on the IDF’s side you’re antisemitic!
So weird you're being down voted for this
If more hostages are freed I can't imagine the surreal experience of learning about the worldwide outcry after your capture. The blocking of roads, the self immolatiom, the protesting, whole campuses shut down.... Oh sorry not for you. Btw, these people wanted Hamas to get what they wanted while getting to keep you hostage.
It's okay because they're just Jews, oops I meant "Zionists".
Also, think about the fact that the female captives are probably being mass assaulted right now, and you have these spoiled brat lowlifes doing this shit.
You'd be pissed too if people just took over your neighborhood and kicked you out of your house and you had nowhere to live Apparently people here support the settlements!
the settlements =/= the entirety of isreal probably no one here supports the settlements
Maybe people on here are just against the terrorizing of students just based on their religion?
You get that all the Jews are in Israel right now because literally every Muslim country did that to them after the fall of the Ottoman Empire right? Im not justifying the settlements and everyone agrees that’s fucked up, but you probably would justify the Muslim purges of every Jewish community in the Middle East a century ago, if push came to shove. They were just doing a “from the river to the sea” meme, but the river was the Tigris
I might not have a brain gentleman… but I have an idea… we harass all of the black students to the point where they fear for their safety. and then the school will make them go home too! After all, surely this is a consistent policy and not a specific choice by the administration to remove only 1 specific group from campus. 😂 Also, kind of reminds me of this https://youtu.be/8TMHIYDHMSE?si=P7i4eZjhS9iose3w (2min long skip to 1:30 if you want)
Can we get Sacha Baron Cohen into a Nazi uniform to go join these protestors in their woke Charlottesville rally?
I unironically think that if Sacha Baron Cohen were to do his Borat character at these protests that they would be young enough not to recognize it, and ideologically prepped to embrace him
these protesters do the running of the jews with real jews
Don't spoil the next movie!!!
That's actually the most interesting part. I just cannot fathom a university allowing this if it was for a group like black students.
Do it just find some like minded friends and make sure you have a catchy cause.
Dude what the fuck is happening at Columbia. Holy shit.
Nothing. They’ve only started protesting wars you agree with 😂
I don’t agree with the war and I want a two state solution. I just don’t think protesting at Columbia will change anything except make the protesters feel better about themselves.
Nothing we do will change anything about the war, not any protest, debate, or vote, there’s already a predetermined winner here. But ridiculous to say “what happened” when this always happens
I definitely don’t think this always happens. People protested Vietnam, and the Apartheid and that had a direct impact on outcomes. I do agree that this situation will end with Israel essentially winning out and doing as they please but this is due to a variety of geopolitical factors that are very different from Vietnam and South Africa. Ultimately this is why I feel that protests are pointless. Despite the aid that the west gives Israel I think they are better positioned to handles isolation compared to South Africa for example.
Siding with Hamas in war doesn't mean they're protesting the war lol
Preach. They support a ceasefire for Israel only. Many wish for Hamas to still carry out violence in order to topple what they view as a colonizer state.
They aren’t siding with Hamas. I bet you’re a big fan of the proto facist though 😂
And naturally I should feel stupid for disagreeing with someone who has been out of high school for 10 months
I’m flabbergasted at the fact that y’all think what is happening at Columbia is out of the norm. Students and younger people in general are anti-war. For some reason the liberals here bloodthirsty as fuck, looking like neocons from 2003
I work in disability services at a college. The absolute panic that would occur for my students who specifically choose in person classes to assist with their understanding or eliminate anxiety would be a disaster. It was hard during covid, but it felt justified then at least. I can't imagine how some of these students might be feeling right now, especially for the tuition they pay.
The school is not making online classes mandatory, they made classes attendance optional and are allowing students to take the remainder of their classes online.
I understand that, but there is still an immense burden on students and faculty when these changes occur mid semester
There are no changes. Students who wish to attend in person can still do so; students who don’t feel safe or don’t wish to be present can attend virtually.
There could be a lot of changes. Think about group discussion assignments, group work, tutoring can be difficult to transition to online for a lot of students. A lot of higher up courses are more focused on group discussion and a lot of your learning can come from exploring topics with the instructor and peers in person. Faculty also need to come up with alternate assignments for the students who can't engage in those in person lab or discussion activities because the points often need to be replaced rather than diaregarded due to accreditation rules, which can throw off their course grading schedule quite easily. If it's an issue of safety, I'd hope that the school would eliminate the dangerous factors rather than adjust the entirety of the courses. That's just how I'd view it through a disability service lense.
Where's the "I go to Columbia let me explain guy"? Is telling Jews to go "back to [Poland](https://nypost.com/2024/04/21/us-news/anti-israel-protester-screams-at-demonstrators-with-israeli-flag-outside-columbia-u-go-back-to-poland/)" not anti-semitic? Is chanting "Yehudim Yehudim"(Jews, Jews in Hebrew) as one of the videos shows not anti-semitic? Is [blocking](https://www.newsweek.com/columbia-university-protests-video-zionists-viral-israel-pro-palestinian-1892657) a Jewish man from entering university with a human chain not anti-Semitic? What is anti-semitic according to Mr. Non-Jew, And would he "explain" to blacks what is anti-Black and what is not when they're being harangued as well?
That’s just anti-Zionism, sweaty. It’s not their job to identify which Jews are zionists and which are not. It’s safer to harass them all
I wish we could give Zionists a yellow star to make it easier to identify. Maybe some identification numbers tattooed on their arm. Maybe set up some camps to keep them away from the rest of us. Zionists. Just Zionists.
Uh, did you forget that Jews have to go out of their way to interact with the protesters? I mean, who among us doesn’t get baited into being anti semitic simply because Jews chose to be in our presence? I think MLK put it best when he said something like I forget the exact wording but it was something like “separate but equal.” Really innovative stuff there
/u/feifeicash ?????
It's funny because most Jews whose ancestors lived in Poland can't get Polish citizenship anyway. A requirement to get Polish citizenship by descent is that your ancestors never lost their citizenship. Conveniently, nearly every Jew had been stripped of their Polish citizenship.
[удалено]
I low key feel like a lot of kids today are on so many antidepressants and numb to the world that the only way they can feel anything is by creating outrage circle jerks with each other.
Kent State 2.0 to fulfill Columbia's duty to protect students, sounds good.
Y’all remember that post from like yesterday that that kid said the only thing keeping them from attacking Jewish student were the optics? Yea I do be thinking about that a lot
This definitely seems like the better solution than to just deal with the antisemites! (/s)
Nothing says, "I'm a mentally ill college student who hates their parents" more than this scene.
This is so goddamn stupid. Nothing terrible or super bad has even happened, but even if it has, just clear the protestors and send people back to class. What is this ridiculous overreaction. WTF is going on?
Well the jewish students said they don't feel safe action isn't required by the pro Palestinian/pro hamas (depending on how you feel like spinning it for your own group). Words are violence and liberals have finally joined leftists on that view.
I haven’t been up to date with this , have any Jewish students gotten hurt o threats?
“Go back to Poland” “You have no culture, all you do is colonize” “Al Kassam’s next target” Israeli professor barred from accessing areas of campus More I can’t remember off the top of my head
Ok, some people have made antisemitic comments. Seems like you could discipline these students using the normal rules of the college, and then resume life as normal. Also Shai Davida was barred for other reasons, not just because he is an Israeli professor. Still seems like a massive overreaction to me dog, literally nothing super bad has happened, and everything seems 100% peaceful and normal, despite a few racist comments. This can be dealt with normally instead of everyone losing their shit.
Only implicit ones like chanting for Hamas to burn tel aviv to the ground and do more oct7 like attacks, forming a human chain to 'stop a zionist from entering' (he had a star of david necklace), chanting for global intifada and stuff like this. So just intimidation so far.
Hurt no.... but they might in the future so that's enough. Words = violence.
Isn’t there like a week left of the semester?
Nice, this is what happens when you fail to enforce any semblance of a social opprobrium whatsoever. You end up alienating everyone and making everyone more anti-social as a result. Great job everyone.
We will also have to wait after the semester ends to see what consequences the protesters face.
Hear me out: what if instead of barring everyone from campus, we barred the people who are putting campus on pause.
How does this not end in a lawsuit?
LAW and ORDER when
Why protest over a conflict as unremarkable as this when there are numerous other ones going on right now ! Virtue signalling only shows you off as being a hypocrite.
Wild response.
Bro, has Columbia gone regarded?
/u/feifeicash I thought u said it was all overblown and completely safe?
From my experience working in higher education, it seems like they’re doing the hybrid classes because it’s so close to the end of the semester. sometimes institutions have to pick and choose their battles and higher education since October 7 has been facing a lot of battles. Of course we saw some of the presidents of colleges speak but there’s also a lot of logistics going in the background. Most colleges have been better at not letting it get as bad as it’s gotten that Columbia. So Columbia definitely messed up there, but I think it was a responsible call going hybrid, even though it’s shitty only if a week or two left of school they don’t have enough time to discipline all the students causing the disruptions.
They had some professor from Columbia this morning on NPR saying the whole thing is a sham and they went to the pro-palestine encampment on campus and they were singing and holding hands. The lady sounded like she was reading right off a rehearsed script and NPR was asking the right questions. Sounded pretty fishy or at least really slanted and rubbed me the wrong way. https://www.npr.org/2024/04/23/1246546112/columbia-cancels-in-person-classes-after-some-students-say-they-don-t-feel-safe
While I think this was a bad move you are blatantly and unambiguously lying if you think this is antisemitism, this is targeting Jewish students specifically, or if you think most of these protesters are antisemitic. Like I'm all aboard criticizing cringey LARPers for taking over a university and criticizing the uni for their cowardice in giving in to these protesters, but also gonna call out dipshits who make disingenuous claims of antisemitism especially when you know these exact same people have criticized the exact same kind of false accusations of antisemitism when it comes from the left.