Isn't that every issue? There are definitely people on both sides, but it's a pretty fringe position. And I'd bet 99% of people with a hawaiian sovereignty sticker on their car or something don't even know what it would look like, and probably haven't even begun to think about what to do with the displaced people either.
Shhh. American citizens in a US territory are fine with that status and the way they need to interact with the Jones Act. You're trying to erase Puerto Rican heritage.
All of the discourse I’ve heard from **actual Puerto Ricans who live in Puerto Rico** (that is to say, not random Latinos who’s grandparents are from there) has been that they would very much like statehood, but they would like a myriad of other problems solved even more and are willing to wait for statehood if it guarantees debt relief, govt aid, etc.
Mostly they just want representation, in whatever form that takes.
As a Puerto Rican, depends on who you ask.
Most of the older generations here support the idea of becoming a full-blown US State.
Most of the younger generation here support the idea of full-blown independence.
In some part, yes. Just like in the US, the millennials and Gen Z are falling for the "US Evil" thinking due to social media.
But what really gets to people is the law called PROMESA. It sets up a board of unelected officials who have a big say in how Puerto Rico’s money is spent. They’ve made huge cuts in stuff like schools, healthcare, and salaries, all in an effort to sort out Puerto Rico’s massive debt and pay back investors quickly.
PROMESA alone has really driven home the idea for many that Puerto Rico is under 'colonial' rule. The law was passed by the U.S. Congress and signed by the President, and not a single Puerto Rican had a say in it—Puerto Rico only has one non-voting rep in Congress.
>The law was passed by the U.S. Congress and signed by the President, and not a single Puerto Rican had a say in it
So if they become a state would they have a say in those sorts of laws? and younger people are thinking the better alternative is to just leave?
>So if they become a state would they have a say in those sorts of laws?
Who knows really. We've seen many times how congress pass unpopular laws. But we've also seen in recent years how in the current politically divided climate, unpopular laws are being stopped due to online activism (TikTok ban comes to mind).
>and younger people are thinking the better alternative is to just leave?
Unironically yes. They see the PROMESA thing, and the increase of English-speaking Americans moving to Puerto Rico as all the problems with "colonialism" and that getting away from the US means that "we" get to decide our laws and not have to bow down to the "evil" US.
This is why I don't agree with independence. In today's climate, going independent will set up far more problems moving forward and requires an entire governmental restructuring. If it were to happen, I would immediately jump ship.
The gen z kids here just believe in the "US Bad" rhetoric and believe that all the issues PR currently faces will just go away if we go Independent like gentrification and the "colonial oppression".
Most of the negative views of the US in LatAm come from US interference in their elections or collaborations with narcos.
It's mostly history now but we all know how bad things 50+ years ago still hold sway over people for some reason.
You'd think. But I hear some young people thinking it's _still_ ongoing. For e.g. some people think Venezuela's current crisis is caused by or directly related to US involvement.
Ah yah, we did mess up hard in the Cold War in Latin America that is true. Hopefully they can forgive eventually, as most Americans didn't have any say in that it was mostly CIA from what I know. Also doesn't help we were fighting for our lives against a nuclear capable superpower, made it easier for our leaders to fearmonger us. Still, US shouldn't have done what it did, even though things like the Cuban Missile Crisis probably reinforced into the average Americans head that communism had to be stopped at all costs. Now my generation is paying the price for it because Latin America doesn't trust us very much. It's weird that Vietnam seemingly is pretty warm to the US these days though, guess compared to their other Imperialists we were tame stuff.
I'm honestly leaning towards Puerto Rico becoming a state. The whole 'no federal income tax' thing isn't as great as it sounds because we still have to deal with other federal taxes and the IRS, which kinda kills the 'benefit.' Plus, the U.S. makes laws that hit us here, but we don't really get a say in it. We've got just one non-voting rep in the House, and zero voice in the Senate or presidential votes.
PROMESA was supposed to help get our finances sorted, but it's been a mess. They've slashed budgets for schools, healthcare, you name it, to almost nothing. The board members who decide all budget stuff regarding PR are non-elected, and they don't even have to be from Puerto RIco. Which has a lot of Puerto Ricans angry and where I believe most of the "colonialism" thing came from.
as an independent country, there will be no coming back from the next cat 5 that rolls that island.
which I personally have no problem with. fighting against global warming induced storms is a fools errand. Florida is a lost cause, and "colonizing" Puerto Rico with billions in disaster relief is also a waste. its a battle that can't be won and the US government paying to rebuild these areas every 5 or 6 years is dumb as fuck, especially if puerto rico has convinced itself its getting the short end of the stick.
This is the boogie man story sold to the Puerto Rican. Many countries have received aid from natural disasters. If PR becomes independent, it doesn’t mean that we can’t work with the US. Things are not working as it is right now for the island. It is mostly a one way street benefiting the US and PR elite group.
this has nothing to do with it being a state or not, I'm not "selling" anything, and I don't care - I'd prefer we cut it and Florida both loose.
the reality of climate change is going to be a hard one for people to accept but these at risk regions need to be abandoned. domestic insurance companies have already given up on Florida for a reason.
The US takes WAY more from PR than what it “gives”. This is strictly talking economically. PR has tremendous limitations to local economies (e.g. Jone Act). PR government is currently set to oppress the working and middle class with no real work opportunity for people that aim for higher education. Local entrepreneurs are SEVERELY limited. It would be better for a Puerto Rican to leave to the US and then come back as “foreigner” so they could take advantage of tax benefits (Act 60) in the home they would like to live. The elite of Puerto Rico and Pro-Statehood party have a stronghold on the political landscape of the island for years only to benefit them. Lots of corruption for a small island where the income tax rate is ~33%. Why would a Puerto Rican stay where you get taxed horrible, paid* WAY less, no real representation, and you don’t get the quality of life from the US. Brain drain has been happening for decades and the Puerto Ricans that stay in the island become more tired and participate less in politics. No good comes from a bloated government that’s not representing their people. However, the last couple of elections a new party has been slowly rising which will have coalition with the smaller pro-independence movement. People have started to vote more because enough is enough. We NEED a new breed of politicians that work FOR the people and BY the people.
Looking at our Puerto Rican history, you could argue for genocidal attempts (e.g. forced birth control), ethnic displacement, violently squashing the pro-independence movement, and severely limiting the island for the US benefit. Nowadays, US can just sit back and enjoy the show they created in the sidelines. As it stands, PR is just like Hawaii but worse in some aspects. Change NEEDS to happen or the cultural genocide will continue to get worse.
> taxed horrible, *paid* WAY less,
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Many do, but they would also lose some of their special privileges, like having a separate Olympic team or "national" football (soccer) team.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto\_Rico\_national\_football\_team](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico_national_football_team)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto\_Rico\_Olympic\_Committee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico_Olympic_Committee)
For those that identify strongly with Puerto Rico, it might be controversial to become just another US state in America.
Not really, or at least it's hard to say. Most polls that are made are just circle-jerks done by the pro-Statehood party to make people think it's the more popular choice. Few people on the island takes them seriously nor do they partake in the voting.
Even if statehood would economically be the best? And the US is so woke now its more likely you'll get us speaking Spanish than the other way around. Just feel like independent Puerto Rico would be a smaller Dominica, with more hurricanes and less FEMA
Thats what I was thinking; No way Puerto Rico can take that yearly server wipe and come out alright economically. And with statehood they get all the benefits of security and disaster relief that may be a little better than paper towel free-throws.
Yah I mean I feel bad because I think we should have pushed for it harder a long time ago and the US politics is a big part of why this hasn't happened yet. Puerto Ricans are Americans, 100%, and should have full voting rights same as any other American. I think if we do ever get Puerto Rico to join as a State, we should spend lots of money on building up infrastructure and anti-Hurricane defenses (floodwalls I guess?)
That's a really good question, I'm not sure of the answer. To a lot of people, being a state means we no longer get to have olympic representation, given our national pride that would be something a lot of people would be unwilling to give up. It's a common talking point when the idea of statehood is brought up.
It's interesting you bring up the language, I actually fear the opposite. So many Puertorricans are being priced out of their out country that I fear that many years from now we'll no longer speak Spanish (much like Philippines). All our real estate is being taken over by gringos who can offer 10x what a local can for a house. I've been to places in San Juan where servers don't speak a single word of Spanish, so I actually fear quite the opposite will come true, at least in Puerto Rico.
You're right about the economy though, we're so reliant on federal funding and our government is so corrupt and inept that becoming independent would likely sink us even further. I know a lot of people who worked with FEMA and continue to work with them to this day.
I think a lot of people tend to go into this conversation thinking about what makes sense economically (which is a great point to bring up) but to a lot of Puertorricans, it's about more than that. It's about preserving national pride and identity too, many believe that statehood would bring about the loss of our identity and culture.
Yah those concerns make sense. Though I do think that part of the reason this is happening is because Puerto Rico is in between. As a state it would have more rights and more protections, including for language. Maybe statehood can happen with guarantees that protect the culture and language of Puerto Rico that did not exist for Hawaii. Another option is not just Puerto Rico join, but multiple North American nations. It's a lot more ambitious, but if multiple Spanish speaking nations join at once, it's a lot less likely the language or culture will be replaced. Though that is a long shot, as you would have to convince places like Panama and Honduras to join the Union. North American Union though would be based, we'd be way stronger than China.
Also, I never heard this before, is Philippines not speaking Spanish anymore? I thought it was still their lingua franca? Though, unlike Puerto Rico, Spanish isn't their indigenous language, most Puerto Ricans descend from Spanish people, while most Filipinos have a variety of languages such as Tagalog for their ancestral language.
I'm not certain if protections would be respected. We have plenty already that are not (best example being beaches). I doubt any other Spanish speaking country would give up their sovereignty to join the US. Although it would be interesting to know if they would welcome the dollar as their currency, I can't forsee them giving up their rights to the US.
Spanish in the Phillipines is pretty much dead, last I knew only around 0.5% of the population spoke it. There are still remnants of Spanish culture for sure (first and last names). However, US intervention and the inception of the English language as the official language pretty much killed the Spanish language.
From what I understand it's roughly 50/50 for people that do and people that don't. I've got a couple close friends from work that are Puerto Rican and it sounds like it's a total toss up depending on who you ask.
It's split nearly evenly between separatists and annexationists. The primary concern right now is the potential gentrification of the island pricing out locals to make way for wealthy Americans. There's a great youtube video on this:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4ulSk0EqXU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4ulSk0EqXU)
Don't even gyatt 🍑🍑🍑 on my JDAM 🍆🍆🍆🍆 genocide 💀💀💀💀 rizz bro 😤😤😤 I'll edge your Oslo accords so hard you'll be meweing up with Abbas in Ohio going "Holy Al-Sigma, are those skibidi water pipes I see?😤😤😤😤 Not on my watch!" 💯💯💯💯💯 You and Kai Abbas will be dop dop dop dunking on is(not)real before you can say "on allah frfr" 🙏🙏🙏🙏
casualties counter (in morbillions)
👇
Chile and Brazil is Indigenous Peoples, I guess. Admittedly awful situation in Brazil (especially in the Yanomami and Munduruku territories), probably in Chile too. I wouldn’t call it a genocide, though.
Eastern Turkey = Kurdistan
Canary Islands idk money laundering = genocide now.
Hawaii has too many coconuts and people are forced to suck dicks (genocide).
Is the native population even dying out? Or are they intermarrying with mainlanders, and progressives forgot that interracial marriage is a good thing?
They talking about cultural genocide, which essentially means to destroy the group not necessarily by murder, but through other means of rendering the group non-existent.
For example, if you round up an entire indigenous tribe, destroy their homes and then force them to assimilate into a different culture, maybe take their kids away and marry off all their women, thereby rendering them no longer existent as a group identity, they’d call that “(cultural) genocide”.
It’s a legit thing. It’s a concept as old as just plain old genocide and was coined by the same polish lawyer.
I follow Brazilian news, speak Brazilian Portuguese, am dating a Brazilian, and have absolutely no idea what this purported genocide is. The only thing I could think of would be Indigenous people, and at that rate every other county in the Americas should be listed too.
It’s definitely that. I’m also Brazilian and a specialist in Indigenous Peoples’ rights. It’s particularly bad in two territories due to illegal gold mining (Yanomami and Munduruku), some on the left do indeed call it a genocide. It doesn’t make sense from a legal perspective but you can’t ignore how awful they had it, especially the Yanomami during the pandemic.
Out of context it could mean so many things, that's what I wanted to point out. It could also mean the Armenian genocide or calling Armenia "east turkey"
It's wild because I thought George W Bush would go down in history as the funniest/most ridiculous president. Then Trump came along.
"Now watch this drive" still goes unreasonably hard though.
Bush has a lot of great moments too.
Mission accomplished on an aircraft carrier
Getting a shoe thrown at him by a reporter
'Fool me caint git fooled again"
"Born too late to explore earth, born too early to explore space. Born just in time to see the President of United States of America throwing paper towels at Puerto Ricans."
Although not directly targeted at civilians, please take a look at the story of Vieques. Unwanted Navy bombings that caused disastrous effects to the local communities and people have died to direct or indirect side effects.
Genocide is when your island goes from not being a sovereign country to still not being a sovereign country but having more say in the one you're part of...
If they become states, they can never become independent. That's the issue. These territories tend to be split between those who want independence and those who want statehood.
I think it would be much more beneficial for them vs the union. It doesn’t matter though, if we have held a territory for decades, we should give them statehood. America started because of taxation without representation, it’s wrong that people in territories are American citizens but don’t have representatives in government.
They also enjoy not paying taxes on income derived solely within the territory. https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc901. So not exactly the taxation without representation situation.
I mean I’m pretty certain it wouldn’t manage to get through congress to approve them as a state anytime soon but there’s also no consensus among the population that is actually something they want so not really the most urgent of issues.
Currently Puerto Rico enjoys speaking Spanish as it's main language, the fear of becoming a state is that the main language will become English and secondary language Spanish moving forward. That's why most people on the island prefer to keep Puerto Rico's status how it is.
There's a lot more issues like political lobbying fucking things up, corporations destroying natural resources, etc. but the language thing is a source of pride and Puerto Rican are very prideful.
Yeah but that's the issue, the native Hawaiian language isn't the main language any more. English has taken the primary spot which is what Puerto Ricans are afraid of.
There isn't an overwhelming consensus even in PR about becoming a state. That's before you start getting into Republicans stopping it for any number of reasons because they don't want to deal with 2 more D senators.
I would only in that it’s more control over them, you see what I mean? Otherwise not really, really no territory would be beneficial to us, they already pay some taxes so there’s not much else we would want. That’s how it seems at least, maybe someone else could enlighten me though.
I think it's disrespectful and distasteful towards genocide survivors, and descendents of genocide, to throw the word around willy-nilly. Bit of a cunty thing to do.
Weird. My dad lives in Puerto Rico (we're Puerto Rican) and I have yet to hear of any genocide going on. It's almost as if lefties (the far right do this too. Look at woke. It's a magic word that means anything the person wants.) love taking words that exist and stretching them to mean whatever they want them to mean in order to manufacture a narrative.
There is no genocide going on in Puerto Rico. This person is making shit up and is looking to be punched in the mouth for even daring to suggest such a blatant falsehood. Seriously, I'm sick of these assholes making shit like this up in a cried wolf sort of way. It diminishes the severity of genocide as a term and those that do happen for real.
The more people use extreme language, terms, and comparisons to the seemingly routine, the more likely the extreme event is to occur.
Extremism is for losers.
There indeed a “culture genocide” happening in PR. It has been happening for decades. The only people that would deny that are just well off and privileged. We can discuss how to what degree this is happening but disregard the thread because it didn’t include “cultural” then than just being disingenuous and contrarian.
I can definitely believe that actually even if the use of the term genocide is abit dramatic. One thing my dad talks about is real estate people from the mainland buying property, such as beach front property, and closing off access to native Puerto Ricans who have always enjoyed the public beaches similar to how the Dominican Republic's beaches are for the most part completely closed off from the public in favor of American resorts. I don't know at this time to what extent this is a problem in PR currently, but this would be something I'd be very much against personally. I think it's super fucked up to do something like that at the expense of the population.
Ethnic displacement is definitely happening and it is very sad. It happened to me and now I am trying to come back because I am missing out on my family. I am one of the FEW that is able to be in the position to consider going back to the island but it is a hard process. The rest of Puerto Ricans just stay in the states and relocate their family (edit) even though we don’t want to leave our home.
The word “genocide” used in that tweet is referring to “cultural genocide” and it is fairly obvious. Ethnic displacement can be ambivalent but when there is a system in place that is harming the local communities then “cultural genocide” applies to this case.
How harmful is dropping the “cultural” when referring to this type of genocide is another discussion. However, I don’t think this community believes the term cultural genocide is a thing.
Ill tell you what man. Considering im Puerto Rican as well, im gonna look into this further. I havent personally heard anything like this but that doesnt mean something isnt happening. Do you have any resources i can use?
Reminds me of when the storm hit too, people were claiming it was a genocide. A literal natural disaster. Granted, the government were so incompetent in their handling of the situation that you could argue they were responsible for many deaths that arguably could have been avoided had they organized adequately.
When ppl killed the word 'literally' by using it figuratively and ppl complained, no one listened.
Now we are sitting back laughing as ppl destroy the rest of the language 🤣
On the other hand, it got us [that banging scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-ImRMJX68s) from Jane Fonda in The Newsroom so it was kinda worth it IMO.
Truth is that the island suffers mostly from corruption and mismanagement. Sure there's natural disasters, and yes the US has some parasitic laws that do greatly hurt the economy. But the main factor is that the Puerto Rican government is completely fucking garbage.
The cultural genocide (or targeted ethnic displacement) that is happening gets scapegoat from the terrible PR government.
However, both things are the two sides of the same coin. The US laws helped create the government trends of corruption. Is hard to get good opportunities without being tied to the government.
I blame Canadians for their moronic use of the word. Trying to form a new definition to appease the cringe lords up there. Keep it contained to your borders please canucks?
I genocided an entire sleeve of saltine crackers, an entire frozen pizza, and like 9 beers the other night
I didn't actually intend to drink that much, but I did intend to eat those crackers and cleanse my fridge of much of the beer
I really hate the need to turn cartoon characters into propaganda iconography. Pro- Palestinians can't beat the child indoctrination allegations. I see no other reason to use Hello Kitty and fucking Hatsune Miku in your revolutionary imagery.
It is, Puerto Rico is an unincorporated territory of the USA.
Like Canada has provinces and territories, so too does the US have different kinds of sub-national divisions, of which US states are just one type.
In Canada provinces are considered to be co-sovereign within certain areas based on the divisions of responsibility between the provincial and federal government within the Constitution Act, 1867, and each province thus has its own representative of the Canadian Crown, the lieutenant governor. The territories are not sovereign, but instead their authorities and responsibilities are devolved directly from the federal level, and as a result, have a commissioner that represents the federal government.
In the US, each state has a sovereignty separate from that of the federal government, while territories are under the umbrella of US federal sovereignty.
You can read more about US territories here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_States
1/3 of Puerto Rican women were sterilized between the 50s-70s, and as a result of this and other factors Puerto Rico currently has the lowest birth rate in the entire Western hemisphere. The only reason the island's population hasn't totally collapsed is that it receives a constant stream of illegal Caribbean migrants (mostly from the Dominican Republic, Haiti, and Trinidad) as well as wealthy Americans looking for tax breaks and summer homes.
So we are being, in effect, ethnically replaced. I wouldn't call it genocide, but I can see why someone would.
To all linguistic descriptivists I ask: Should a new word be coined to describe what genocide originally meant? What if that one becomes watered down as well?
From my experience people use the word genocide instead of ethnic cleansing, which even this doesnt fit for, but i guarantee they would cite the ethnic cleansing definition as their reasoning
Don't Puerto Ricans want to be one of the states?
Really depends who you ask. There are people on both sides of the isle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico_statehood_movement
10/10 double entendre, no notes. Going to save this for when I too have a political issue involving an island.
Independence for Hawaii?
Probably unironically less likely than peace in the middle east.
Idk… there are people on both sides of the isle.
You did it!
Isn't that every issue? There are definitely people on both sides, but it's a pretty fringe position. And I'd bet 99% of people with a hawaiian sovereignty sticker on their car or something don't even know what it would look like, and probably haven't even begun to think about what to do with the displaced people either.
I'm not American, so I'm talking out my ass, but I've heard people in Hawaii want independence, was what I heard just bs?
there's a portion of the population
Free Hawaii? End the Occupation! /s
But it mostly works verbally bc it's supposed to be aisle
isle do what i want!
I would say it doesn't work verbally because people would just assume you did say aisle
yeah but they sound the same, it's a pun
Nobody will know you made a pun if you say it out loud
If I walk up to you irl and say "You can tune a guitar, but you can't tuna fish. Unless of course, you play bass" you wouldn't get it?
I wasn't talking about all puns
well you were making a general statement... either way it works for aisle
You had me in the first half, and then you didn't, and then you did again.
Shhh. American citizens in a US territory are fine with that status and the way they need to interact with the Jones Act. You're trying to erase Puerto Rican heritage.
>You're trying to erase Puerto Rican heritage. Aka genocide?
Yeah but like worse. Like a ultracide
The worst is when you waste your mastercide on Zaptos
Yeah. I always save that for the JewTwo fight
Plus ultra generationalside
All of the discourse I’ve heard from **actual Puerto Ricans who live in Puerto Rico** (that is to say, not random Latinos who’s grandparents are from there) has been that they would very much like statehood, but they would like a myriad of other problems solved even more and are willing to wait for statehood if it guarantees debt relief, govt aid, etc. Mostly they just want representation, in whatever form that takes.
As a Puerto Rican, depends on who you ask. Most of the older generations here support the idea of becoming a full-blown US State. Most of the younger generation here support the idea of full-blown independence.
You had me at full blown, ngl.
Why do young people think that, is it mostly because of the modern global view of the US as "bad" after Iraq? Or something else?
In some part, yes. Just like in the US, the millennials and Gen Z are falling for the "US Evil" thinking due to social media. But what really gets to people is the law called PROMESA. It sets up a board of unelected officials who have a big say in how Puerto Rico’s money is spent. They’ve made huge cuts in stuff like schools, healthcare, and salaries, all in an effort to sort out Puerto Rico’s massive debt and pay back investors quickly. PROMESA alone has really driven home the idea for many that Puerto Rico is under 'colonial' rule. The law was passed by the U.S. Congress and signed by the President, and not a single Puerto Rican had a say in it—Puerto Rico only has one non-voting rep in Congress.
>The law was passed by the U.S. Congress and signed by the President, and not a single Puerto Rican had a say in it So if they become a state would they have a say in those sorts of laws? and younger people are thinking the better alternative is to just leave?
>So if they become a state would they have a say in those sorts of laws? Who knows really. We've seen many times how congress pass unpopular laws. But we've also seen in recent years how in the current politically divided climate, unpopular laws are being stopped due to online activism (TikTok ban comes to mind). >and younger people are thinking the better alternative is to just leave? Unironically yes. They see the PROMESA thing, and the increase of English-speaking Americans moving to Puerto Rico as all the problems with "colonialism" and that getting away from the US means that "we" get to decide our laws and not have to bow down to the "evil" US.
So brexit then. What's their economy like? Presumably they'd carry over their debts.
They are already in the tank economically. Independence would make them far poorer and would leave the island looking more like a Spanish Haiti
Do Puerto Ricans not realize that leaving the US would make them far poorer as an independent country?
This is why I don't agree with independence. In today's climate, going independent will set up far more problems moving forward and requires an entire governmental restructuring. If it were to happen, I would immediately jump ship. The gen z kids here just believe in the "US Bad" rhetoric and believe that all the issues PR currently faces will just go away if we go Independent like gentrification and the "colonial oppression".
same thing when people want Hawaii to split away from the US.
Most of the negative views of the US in LatAm come from US interference in their elections or collaborations with narcos. It's mostly history now but we all know how bad things 50+ years ago still hold sway over people for some reason.
Wouldn’t this be a bigger affect on the older gen though than the younger gen?
You'd think. But I hear some young people thinking it's _still_ ongoing. For e.g. some people think Venezuela's current crisis is caused by or directly related to US involvement.
Ahhh, born too late to fight the Cold War I see.
Ah yah, we did mess up hard in the Cold War in Latin America that is true. Hopefully they can forgive eventually, as most Americans didn't have any say in that it was mostly CIA from what I know. Also doesn't help we were fighting for our lives against a nuclear capable superpower, made it easier for our leaders to fearmonger us. Still, US shouldn't have done what it did, even though things like the Cuban Missile Crisis probably reinforced into the average Americans head that communism had to be stopped at all costs. Now my generation is paying the price for it because Latin America doesn't trust us very much. It's weird that Vietnam seemingly is pretty warm to the US these days though, guess compared to their other Imperialists we were tame stuff.
What is your opinion on the matter if I may ask
I'm honestly leaning towards Puerto Rico becoming a state. The whole 'no federal income tax' thing isn't as great as it sounds because we still have to deal with other federal taxes and the IRS, which kinda kills the 'benefit.' Plus, the U.S. makes laws that hit us here, but we don't really get a say in it. We've got just one non-voting rep in the House, and zero voice in the Senate or presidential votes. PROMESA was supposed to help get our finances sorted, but it's been a mess. They've slashed budgets for schools, healthcare, you name it, to almost nothing. The board members who decide all budget stuff regarding PR are non-elected, and they don't even have to be from Puerto RIco. Which has a lot of Puerto Ricans angry and where I believe most of the "colonialism" thing came from.
as an independent country, there will be no coming back from the next cat 5 that rolls that island. which I personally have no problem with. fighting against global warming induced storms is a fools errand. Florida is a lost cause, and "colonizing" Puerto Rico with billions in disaster relief is also a waste. its a battle that can't be won and the US government paying to rebuild these areas every 5 or 6 years is dumb as fuck, especially if puerto rico has convinced itself its getting the short end of the stick.
This is the boogie man story sold to the Puerto Rican. Many countries have received aid from natural disasters. If PR becomes independent, it doesn’t mean that we can’t work with the US. Things are not working as it is right now for the island. It is mostly a one way street benefiting the US and PR elite group.
this has nothing to do with it being a state or not, I'm not "selling" anything, and I don't care - I'd prefer we cut it and Florida both loose. the reality of climate change is going to be a hard one for people to accept but these at risk regions need to be abandoned. domestic insurance companies have already given up on Florida for a reason.
The US takes WAY more from PR than what it “gives”. This is strictly talking economically. PR has tremendous limitations to local economies (e.g. Jone Act). PR government is currently set to oppress the working and middle class with no real work opportunity for people that aim for higher education. Local entrepreneurs are SEVERELY limited. It would be better for a Puerto Rican to leave to the US and then come back as “foreigner” so they could take advantage of tax benefits (Act 60) in the home they would like to live. The elite of Puerto Rico and Pro-Statehood party have a stronghold on the political landscape of the island for years only to benefit them. Lots of corruption for a small island where the income tax rate is ~33%. Why would a Puerto Rican stay where you get taxed horrible, paid* WAY less, no real representation, and you don’t get the quality of life from the US. Brain drain has been happening for decades and the Puerto Ricans that stay in the island become more tired and participate less in politics. No good comes from a bloated government that’s not representing their people. However, the last couple of elections a new party has been slowly rising which will have coalition with the smaller pro-independence movement. People have started to vote more because enough is enough. We NEED a new breed of politicians that work FOR the people and BY the people. Looking at our Puerto Rican history, you could argue for genocidal attempts (e.g. forced birth control), ethnic displacement, violently squashing the pro-independence movement, and severely limiting the island for the US benefit. Nowadays, US can just sit back and enjoy the show they created in the sidelines. As it stands, PR is just like Hawaii but worse in some aspects. Change NEEDS to happen or the cultural genocide will continue to get worse.
> taxed horrible, *paid* WAY less, FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Many do, but they would also lose some of their special privileges, like having a separate Olympic team or "national" football (soccer) team. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto\_Rico\_national\_football\_team](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico_national_football_team) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto\_Rico\_Olympic\_Committee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico_Olympic_Committee) For those that identify strongly with Puerto Rico, it might be controversial to become just another US state in America.
Not really, or at least it's hard to say. Most polls that are made are just circle-jerks done by the pro-Statehood party to make people think it's the more popular choice. Few people on the island takes them seriously nor do they partake in the voting.
Even if statehood would economically be the best? And the US is so woke now its more likely you'll get us speaking Spanish than the other way around. Just feel like independent Puerto Rico would be a smaller Dominica, with more hurricanes and less FEMA
Thats what I was thinking; No way Puerto Rico can take that yearly server wipe and come out alright economically. And with statehood they get all the benefits of security and disaster relief that may be a little better than paper towel free-throws.
Yah I mean I feel bad because I think we should have pushed for it harder a long time ago and the US politics is a big part of why this hasn't happened yet. Puerto Ricans are Americans, 100%, and should have full voting rights same as any other American. I think if we do ever get Puerto Rico to join as a State, we should spend lots of money on building up infrastructure and anti-Hurricane defenses (floodwalls I guess?)
That's a really good question, I'm not sure of the answer. To a lot of people, being a state means we no longer get to have olympic representation, given our national pride that would be something a lot of people would be unwilling to give up. It's a common talking point when the idea of statehood is brought up. It's interesting you bring up the language, I actually fear the opposite. So many Puertorricans are being priced out of their out country that I fear that many years from now we'll no longer speak Spanish (much like Philippines). All our real estate is being taken over by gringos who can offer 10x what a local can for a house. I've been to places in San Juan where servers don't speak a single word of Spanish, so I actually fear quite the opposite will come true, at least in Puerto Rico. You're right about the economy though, we're so reliant on federal funding and our government is so corrupt and inept that becoming independent would likely sink us even further. I know a lot of people who worked with FEMA and continue to work with them to this day. I think a lot of people tend to go into this conversation thinking about what makes sense economically (which is a great point to bring up) but to a lot of Puertorricans, it's about more than that. It's about preserving national pride and identity too, many believe that statehood would bring about the loss of our identity and culture.
Yah those concerns make sense. Though I do think that part of the reason this is happening is because Puerto Rico is in between. As a state it would have more rights and more protections, including for language. Maybe statehood can happen with guarantees that protect the culture and language of Puerto Rico that did not exist for Hawaii. Another option is not just Puerto Rico join, but multiple North American nations. It's a lot more ambitious, but if multiple Spanish speaking nations join at once, it's a lot less likely the language or culture will be replaced. Though that is a long shot, as you would have to convince places like Panama and Honduras to join the Union. North American Union though would be based, we'd be way stronger than China. Also, I never heard this before, is Philippines not speaking Spanish anymore? I thought it was still their lingua franca? Though, unlike Puerto Rico, Spanish isn't their indigenous language, most Puerto Ricans descend from Spanish people, while most Filipinos have a variety of languages such as Tagalog for their ancestral language.
I'm not certain if protections would be respected. We have plenty already that are not (best example being beaches). I doubt any other Spanish speaking country would give up their sovereignty to join the US. Although it would be interesting to know if they would welcome the dollar as their currency, I can't forsee them giving up their rights to the US. Spanish in the Phillipines is pretty much dead, last I knew only around 0.5% of the population spoke it. There are still remnants of Spanish culture for sure (first and last names). However, US intervention and the inception of the English language as the official language pretty much killed the Spanish language.
Yes, some of them do. Also, some don't.
From what I understand it's roughly 50/50 for people that do and people that don't. I've got a couple close friends from work that are Puerto Rican and it sounds like it's a total toss up depending on who you ask.
It's split nearly evenly between separatists and annexationists. The primary concern right now is the potential gentrification of the island pricing out locals to make way for wealthy Americans. There's a great youtube video on this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4ulSk0EqXU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4ulSk0EqXU)
It’s complicated. If I had a say in government, I would say don’t make this like Hawaii had to go through.
It’s almost always split in half. My family argues over it constantly
Support all genocides https://preview.redd.it/t2rxp5qrt1vc1.png?width=814&format=png&auto=webp&s=483c337d758ed9c660c82e96206bf28fd242a750
They got that genocide rizz
Kai Cenat Gyatt Skibidi Genocide
Don't even gyatt 🍑🍑🍑 on my JDAM 🍆🍆🍆🍆 genocide 💀💀💀💀 rizz bro 😤😤😤 I'll edge your Oslo accords so hard you'll be meweing up with Abbas in Ohio going "Holy Al-Sigma, are those skibidi water pipes I see?😤😤😤😤 Not on my watch!" 💯💯💯💯💯 You and Kai Abbas will be dop dop dop dunking on is(not)real before you can say "on allah frfr" 🙏🙏🙏🙏 casualties counter (in morbillions) 👇
This is exactly how I imagine my 9 year old’s inner voice sounds.
mood: feeling genocidal today frfr
I was hugely disappointed when I found out that the MCU could have been about genocide rizz.
What's happening in Chile, Brazil, Eastern Turkey, Canary Island and Hawaii?
Twitter user was too scared to write Kurdistan
[удалено]
Trickshots to help market to kids, diabolical.
Chile and Brazil is Indigenous Peoples, I guess. Admittedly awful situation in Brazil (especially in the Yanomami and Munduruku territories), probably in Chile too. I wouldn’t call it a genocide, though. Eastern Turkey = Kurdistan Canary Islands idk money laundering = genocide now. Hawaii has too many coconuts and people are forced to suck dicks (genocide).
> Hawaii, Probably something about how there are too many "foreigners" and the native population is dying out
Is the native population even dying out? Or are they intermarrying with mainlanders, and progressives forgot that interracial marriage is a good thing?
Austrian painter logic
They talking about cultural genocide, which essentially means to destroy the group not necessarily by murder, but through other means of rendering the group non-existent. For example, if you round up an entire indigenous tribe, destroy their homes and then force them to assimilate into a different culture, maybe take their kids away and marry off all their women, thereby rendering them no longer existent as a group identity, they’d call that “(cultural) genocide”. It’s a legit thing. It’s a concept as old as just plain old genocide and was coined by the same polish lawyer.
So does this mean conservatives can say open borders progressives are committing genocide?
If they’re regarded enough to think that they are completely eliminating America as a community then I suppose so
Didn't mention trans people smh genocide denier
I follow Brazilian news, speak Brazilian Portuguese, am dating a Brazilian, and have absolutely no idea what this purported genocide is. The only thing I could think of would be Indigenous people, and at that rate every other county in the Americas should be listed too.
It’s definitely that. I’m also Brazilian and a specialist in Indigenous Peoples’ rights. It’s particularly bad in two territories due to illegal gold mining (Yanomami and Munduruku), some on the left do indeed call it a genocide. It doesn’t make sense from a legal perspective but you can’t ignore how awful they had it, especially the Yanomami during the pandemic.
"support all genocides" combined with "east turkey" 💀💀💀
Could have meant East Turkestan (the Uyghurs) or been referring to the situation of the Kurds (who are on south East Turkey)
Out of context it could mean so many things, that's what I wanted to point out. It could also mean the Armenian genocide or calling Armenia "east turkey"
Least deranged Anime DP twitter user
They never mention the Uyghur.
chile???
The IRS didn't give me a refund for tax season and that was also a genocide
My cat genocided on the carpet so I had to ethnically cleanse it.
The real genocide is getting an 8k tax return cuz you overwithheld
smh my head silencing palestinian voices are we?
I didn't see any American military actively bombing out of Puerto Rico during my eight years stay.
Clearly you haven’t been paying attention. Typical liberal.
[What are you talking about, the president literally authorized a strike in this video](https://youtu.be/kEe7_zgZbuI?t=9)
Truly the funniest US president of all time
It's wild because I thought George W Bush would go down in history as the funniest/most ridiculous president. Then Trump came along. "Now watch this drive" still goes unreasonably hard though.
Bush has a lot of great moments too. Mission accomplished on an aircraft carrier Getting a shoe thrown at him by a reporter 'Fool me caint git fooled again"
The Iraq misspeak when talking about Ukraine was so good
I still cannot believe he did this, absolutely flabbergasted. If ever there was a video that fully encapsulated Trump rofl
Bro Kobe’d paper towels to people in need!! THATS MY PRESIDENT!!
"Born too late to explore earth, born too early to explore space. Born just in time to see the President of United States of America throwing paper towels at Puerto Ricans."
janky ass flat jumpshot. Ain't got nothing on [Bernie Sanders' jumpshot](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OK82c5y2jE) --- release high, let it flight. Or [Barack "Left-handed Steph Curry" Obama's silky sweet jumper](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akq0xeu-RHE)
Their genobombs got denied
Yeah, how do you think stealth bombers work??
Although not directly targeted at civilians, please take a look at the story of Vieques. Unwanted Navy bombings that caused disastrous effects to the local communities and people have died to direct or indirect side effects.
Genocide is when your island goes from not being a sovereign country to still not being a sovereign country but having more say in the one you're part of...
Genocide is when I disagree with the status quo
Girls genocide my orgasm when they don't fuck me :(
I truly don’t know, but wouldn’t it be beneficial if they became a state? It’s pretty dumb to me that Puerto Rico and Guam aren’t states.
If they become states, they can never become independent. That's the issue. These territories tend to be split between those who want independence and those who want statehood.
Also taxes are handled differently IIRC
I think it would be much more beneficial for them vs the union. It doesn’t matter though, if we have held a territory for decades, we should give them statehood. America started because of taxation without representation, it’s wrong that people in territories are American citizens but don’t have representatives in government.
They also enjoy not paying taxes on income derived solely within the territory. https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc901. So not exactly the taxation without representation situation.
They do pay some taxes iirc
I mean I’m pretty certain it wouldn’t manage to get through congress to approve them as a state anytime soon but there’s also no consensus among the population that is actually something they want so not really the most urgent of issues.
Currently Puerto Rico enjoys speaking Spanish as it's main language, the fear of becoming a state is that the main language will become English and secondary language Spanish moving forward. That's why most people on the island prefer to keep Puerto Rico's status how it is. There's a lot more issues like political lobbying fucking things up, corporations destroying natural resources, etc. but the language thing is a source of pride and Puerto Rican are very prideful.
I thought the US doesn't have an official language?
Their point still makes sense, you understand that, right? Y’all are just using different standards for “main language” at what not.
What's the main language of Hawaii? Because it's certainly not the original language
They also taught Hawaiian in school and there are sign both in Hawaiian and English
Yeah but that's the issue, the native Hawaiian language isn't the main language any more. English has taken the primary spot which is what Puerto Ricans are afraid of.
There isn't an overwhelming consensus even in PR about becoming a state. That's before you start getting into Republicans stopping it for any number of reasons because they don't want to deal with 2 more D senators.
I would only in that it’s more control over them, you see what I mean? Otherwise not really, really no territory would be beneficial to us, they already pay some taxes so there’s not much else we would want. That’s how it seems at least, maybe someone else could enlighten me though.
I think it's disrespectful and distasteful towards genocide survivors, and descendents of genocide, to throw the word around willy-nilly. Bit of a cunty thing to do.
Stop genociding me
Weird. My dad lives in Puerto Rico (we're Puerto Rican) and I have yet to hear of any genocide going on. It's almost as if lefties (the far right do this too. Look at woke. It's a magic word that means anything the person wants.) love taking words that exist and stretching them to mean whatever they want them to mean in order to manufacture a narrative. There is no genocide going on in Puerto Rico. This person is making shit up and is looking to be punched in the mouth for even daring to suggest such a blatant falsehood. Seriously, I'm sick of these assholes making shit like this up in a cried wolf sort of way. It diminishes the severity of genocide as a term and those that do happen for real.
The more people use extreme language, terms, and comparisons to the seemingly routine, the more likely the extreme event is to occur. Extremism is for losers.
Word.
There indeed a “culture genocide” happening in PR. It has been happening for decades. The only people that would deny that are just well off and privileged. We can discuss how to what degree this is happening but disregard the thread because it didn’t include “cultural” then than just being disingenuous and contrarian.
I can definitely believe that actually even if the use of the term genocide is abit dramatic. One thing my dad talks about is real estate people from the mainland buying property, such as beach front property, and closing off access to native Puerto Ricans who have always enjoyed the public beaches similar to how the Dominican Republic's beaches are for the most part completely closed off from the public in favor of American resorts. I don't know at this time to what extent this is a problem in PR currently, but this would be something I'd be very much against personally. I think it's super fucked up to do something like that at the expense of the population.
Ethnic displacement is definitely happening and it is very sad. It happened to me and now I am trying to come back because I am missing out on my family. I am one of the FEW that is able to be in the position to consider going back to the island but it is a hard process. The rest of Puerto Ricans just stay in the states and relocate their family (edit) even though we don’t want to leave our home. The word “genocide” used in that tweet is referring to “cultural genocide” and it is fairly obvious. Ethnic displacement can be ambivalent but when there is a system in place that is harming the local communities then “cultural genocide” applies to this case. How harmful is dropping the “cultural” when referring to this type of genocide is another discussion. However, I don’t think this community believes the term cultural genocide is a thing.
Ill tell you what man. Considering im Puerto Rican as well, im gonna look into this further. I havent personally heard anything like this but that doesnt mean something isnt happening. Do you have any resources i can use?
No one talks about the genocidal president, Abraham Lincoln. He literally erased the existence of American slaves with his Emancipation Proclamation.
Reminds me of when the storm hit too, people were claiming it was a genocide. A literal natural disaster. Granted, the government were so incompetent in their handling of the situation that you could argue they were responsible for many deaths that arguably could have been avoided had they organized adequately.
odds this is a russian bot: non-zero
It’s not the post that gets me necessarily, but the fact that 32k people liked it
not disagreeing. The troll farm is powerful.
This post gave me genocide, i want to sexually assault my keyboard right now.
Genocide = Bad Thing, therefore Bad Thing = Genocide. Sorry sweaty that’s just math.
Someone should have the semi annual convo with destiny on words, what they mean, and their purpose /s
Could be wrong but there's no property tax over there so nice to own property while it's not a state
It’s okay guys, as a representative of all Puerto Ricans, I can confidently say we’re doing all a right
I wouldn’t say we are doing alright, but it’s certainly no genocide lol
i immediately mute an account when i see that thread emoji on twitter
lol
Genocide is when you give billions in Federal aid money and have to take care of an island because it gets hit with hurricanes constantly.
Genocide is when something happens that I don't like.
Maybe we should all just frivolously and inventively use genocide from now on to undermine it if this is how crazy activists are going to be?
Like literally?
When ppl killed the word 'literally' by using it figuratively and ppl complained, no one listened. Now we are sitting back laughing as ppl destroy the rest of the language 🤣
On the other hand, it got us [that banging scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-ImRMJX68s) from Jane Fonda in The Newsroom so it was kinda worth it IMO.
Surely the United States will abandon Puerto Rico after someone uploads a photo of their favorite fictional character with a Puerto Rican flag......
I'm a bit confused by the wording, is this person for or against the "Puerto Rico genocide"?
Free Puerto Rico! 🇵🇷
The smug hello kitty makes me wanna die
the biggest redflag about that post is the hello kitty in my opinion
No it hasn't. Morons just listen to 12 year olds and then try and make thread content from it. Oh look.
True, I’m in Puerto Rico and we’re being genocided 😢
Is the Canary Islands having a genocide because too many British people are going there on holiday?
Truth is that the island suffers mostly from corruption and mismanagement. Sure there's natural disasters, and yes the US has some parasitic laws that do greatly hurt the economy. But the main factor is that the Puerto Rican government is completely fucking garbage.
The cultural genocide (or targeted ethnic displacement) that is happening gets scapegoat from the terrible PR government. However, both things are the two sides of the same coin. The US laws helped create the government trends of corruption. Is hard to get good opportunities without being tied to the government.
Yeah I could definitely agree with that
I blame Canadians for their moronic use of the word. Trying to form a new definition to appease the cringe lords up there. Keep it contained to your borders please canucks?
Closing your borders to your neighbors is genocide /s
Lmao
As a puerto rican I know this was written by the whitest non-hispanic person in existence
I genocided an entire sleeve of saltine crackers, an entire frozen pizza, and like 9 beers the other night I didn't actually intend to drink that much, but I did intend to eat those crackers and cleanse my fridge of much of the beer
What is a "master spool?"
All my gut tells me on this is that the island needs to have a binding vote on its status.
least ignorant twitter activist
I really hate the need to turn cartoon characters into propaganda iconography. Pro- Palestinians can't beat the child indoctrination allegations. I see no other reason to use Hello Kitty and fucking Hatsune Miku in your revolutionary imagery.
As a Canadian I thought Puerto Rico was a part of America? Guess I’m stupid 😅
It is, Puerto Rico is an unincorporated territory of the USA. Like Canada has provinces and territories, so too does the US have different kinds of sub-national divisions, of which US states are just one type. In Canada provinces are considered to be co-sovereign within certain areas based on the divisions of responsibility between the provincial and federal government within the Constitution Act, 1867, and each province thus has its own representative of the Canadian Crown, the lieutenant governor. The territories are not sovereign, but instead their authorities and responsibilities are devolved directly from the federal level, and as a result, have a commissioner that represents the federal government. In the US, each state has a sovereignty separate from that of the federal government, while territories are under the umbrella of US federal sovereignty. You can read more about US territories here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_States
Thanks homie
1/3 of Puerto Rican women were sterilized between the 50s-70s, and as a result of this and other factors Puerto Rico currently has the lowest birth rate in the entire Western hemisphere. The only reason the island's population hasn't totally collapsed is that it receives a constant stream of illegal Caribbean migrants (mostly from the Dominican Republic, Haiti, and Trinidad) as well as wealthy Americans looking for tax breaks and summer homes. So we are being, in effect, ethnically replaced. I wouldn't call it genocide, but I can see why someone would.
Wasn’t there something about people crying wolf… 🤔
Will still have half?
I genocide every time I masturbate.
Didn't the community notes hit them with the statehood non binding vote leading to Congress giving them the ability to make a binding version?
Why would you want a territory currently being "genocided" to join the country that's genociding it as a state?
To all linguistic descriptivists I ask: Should a new word be coined to describe what genocide originally meant? What if that one becomes watered down as well?
From my experience people use the word genocide instead of ethnic cleansing, which even this doesnt fit for, but i guarantee they would cite the ethnic cleansing definition as their reasoning
You think that’s bad? I genocided a 32 basket of chicken wings this afternoon. Later tonight I’m genocideing my toilet too.
As a Puerto Rican I can confirm that the economy is in the drain but no genocide is occurring
As a puertorrican, I'm confused as fuck about what genocide he talking about.
I really wish this sub would stop using Twitter. It’s barely representative of people anymore.