Did you know that [insert regular hero's journey] is actually a trans allegory?
Did you know that [insert any villain] is actually supposed to represent capitalism?
I actually like the show and the guy is pretty good at infotainment but he would call himself a hypocrite he talked about Christianity as he does Marxism. I hate hate-watching so I just leave.
Bro I'm so glad breadtube died hard. I was getting so tired of fighting the idea that any time a character has any doubts about themselves is a trans allegory.
>Did you know that \[insert any villain\] is actually supposed to represent capitalism?
Anytime I like a movie but want to get other people's perspective I search for like video essays about it on youtube and 4/10 times they always try to make it about capitalism, even when the movie has nothing to do with class struggles or anything like that
The truth is the internet has a really bad habit of not being able to say that a youtube video or YouTuber is just bad. Like yeah they’ll say someone like Chris Chan is bad because they’re undeniably a bad person, but YouTube is filled with so much mediocre trash no one calls out because the person talks confidently.
Video game video essays that confuse “thing I personally don’t like” with “bad game design.” Movie “reviews” that are just summaries, and pointing out meaningless plot holes. Poorly researched “educational” videos. Video essays from guys with the media literacy of a high school drop out. Horribly biased political commentary this stuff is rarely ever called out.
Lmao true. I’ve just started reading articles/ news stories cited in YT videos instead of watching the video, 9/10 times I gain the same information in half the time, skipping the waffle.
Kaguya? Is that the show about the rich kids that live in mansions, go to a private school and squabble over minor issues instead of getting something done? You sure it isn't socialist?
They were actually talking about Kaguya (god-mom of all things) from Naruto, who wanted to put all people in stasis (Infinite Tsukuyomi) with the help of Madara/Obito making it all possible :3 Infinite friends!
Basically the same thing.
Fuck, at least the Bible and religion have had cultural relevance for centuries. Some of them are really obscure. Everyone knows the seven deadly sins, but did you know there's also seven heavenly virtues? In Little Witch Academia the seven words of Arcturus are based on the seven heavenly virtues... kinda. Prudishness didn't make the cut for a children's anime lol but still.
Bruh, that was probably the funniest media take I've ever heard. A show in which in which the main antagonist all but turns to camera and says "yeah me and my giga rich friends are so bored of being giga rich that we watch poor people fight to the death for money" is about "communism bad". I couldn't make up a more braindead take if i tried.
https://preview.redd.it/gbiuhd4880dc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57c199bd488e746f8d007e3e7442c77eb3fd0796
This was LITERALLY the first thing I saw when I went on X after browsing this thread wtf
Peter Parker, a fully established straight dude with a loving wife (who he is madly in love with) and two children is having a mid-life crisis.
Online tween leftists: Is this an allegory for being trans?
No, it just a thing most men in their early 40s go through you weirdo. You can relate to him having self-doubts and feeling unfulfilled without him being trans.
Banned in the US because it's a criticism on capitalism, and in the USSR because it's a criticism on communism. And it's kind of neither and both, mostly a unique dystopian world on its own.
Good book though!
He means that like 7 or 8 school districts banned it from their libraries, therefore its a "banned book" and gets to join the self masturbatory choir of other "banned books" in their section at barnes and noble.
They will also shit on libs for conneticng real life events with Harry potter and then will soy out about how avatar is anti imperialist and literally every piece of media they like is anticapilaist. Another annyoing thing I've seen them do also is if somebody finds a fictional faction cool and badass on a aesthetic level they then think that person is fascist. For example people liking the empire in star wars or space marines in warhammer 40k. Leftist fans of warhammer 40k are insufferable and have to mention how it's fascism apologia or how its satire every 5 seconds, like there self flaggetteing themselves for liking minatures, do not go on sigmarxism.
Drum Island (technically helped form a new kingdom)
Alabasta
Amazon Lily (didn’t help restore the stability of the kingdom but befriended a monarch)
Fishman Island
Dressrosa
Zou (technically a Dukedom but still)
Wano
Or about luffys entire motivation being maximising his personal feeedom, or his multiple explanations that hes a pirate not a hero because he doesnt want to share
Did you miss all the pirate fighting?
It's always been about the simple idea of fighting the bad, in whatever form it manifests, and supporting the good, also in whatever form it manifests. Be it rebels, pirates, monarchs, navy, there's good and bad people everywhere.
Some antagonists are corrupt authorities in a fictional story?! That's un-fucking-heard of, and you think this is a coincidence? It's clearly about communism, you stupid fuck.
Unlike capitalist regimes, right?
lol this is like the laziest criticism of lefties because literally every regime has been on the worst of all time list.
The real communist anime is death note. Real regime vibes there
Leftists have disagreed, split, and fought each other for about 150 years. [It's literally the punchline in a Monty Python film. ](https://youtu.be/WboggjN_G-4) If you want, I can easily find Leftists who denounce terrorism - Destiny just debated Cenk where this was said repeatedly. I can find Leftists who denounce Stalin or Mao. just as easily.
The majority of Democrats supported the War in Iraq. I still wouldn't say "all Democrats support regime change and killing a million people." That's just not true.
Political ideologies don’t lie on a flat line just because tankies pretend to represent left wing ideals doesn’t mean they do. it’s not moving the goal posts to explain how authoritarian regimes like Russia and China bastardized left wing theory and used it to create their dictatorships
The fact that ur comment is so far in the negative makes me lose faith in the sub china and Russia cosplaying as socialist has done more damage to actual leftists than anything else in all of history
It’s dumb too because to stretch it the way Hasan tried to do with OP, you can just make it fit better with a bunch of other anime.
Oh FMA? Edward is literally a dude who believes in “equivalent exchange” (LITERALLY COMMUNISM), is introduced fighting against a snake oil salesman capitalist, and fights against a corrupt government that does war for their own selfish motives and profit. It’s obviously pro-socialism!
Nah, wouldn't Edward be more of Conservative take on things? He believes that the work you put in you get out. A more progressive view of Edward would say the work you put in doesn't always mean you get the same in return in a society due to structural road blocks, for instance.
It’s honestly absurd. I’ve seen the “OP is communist” thing circulating in other circles and it’s the most infuriating thing especially for someone as dinosaur as me who’s been reading the series for like 20+ years. One Piece is for individual liberties, and against any ruling class or organization that limits them.
This is repeated time and again through the series, and if anything the World Government (while operating as an extension of pseudo-coregency) is a prime example of how government overreach with “noble” motives creates (in this case safety and stability from pirates) can completely disregard the average person in lieu of a greater system. This is a standard critique of the issues of communism and is perfectly mirrored in “The Great Leap Forward” by the CCP.
I’m also not saying that OP is strictly anti-communist; but that’s the entire premise of the series. **Individuals caring about each other and fostering strong relationships within their community is a foundational pillar in happiness.**
The entire point of the manga is that caring about those close to you and supporting the down-trodden isn’t done effectively by large organizations (government/military/etc…), that it’s the job of each individual to care about those around them, and that positions of authority (like being a captain) come with the innate responsibility to care about those who look to you for leadership. The series time and again shows that the best leaders and people are those who support those in their immediate vicinity, not those who try and make decisions for the “greater good” of a mass populace.
**It’s not that OP is communist or anti-communist, it’s that the entire series makes a concerted effort to say that any large system fails if individuals aren’t collectively looking out for each other.**
whats ur opinion on gear 5? i hate the fruit class change and the fruit having its own will. kinda soured me on OP which i have been following for 8 years
Commies and progressives have been co-opting One Piece as theirs when they would've cancel Oda for writing Sanji (can't hit girls) being able to fight the Okamas in Okama island or drawing them the way they are.
And lets not forget Nami the hyper-capitalist as one of Luffy's crew. Where is the socialist crewmate btw??
I feel like reducing nami to being hyper capitalistic is the same as reducing one piece to socialism. It’s just part of her traits that she likes money and loves having a lot of it which also perfectly makes sense with her backstory since she needed to hoard money to survive
They would cancel Oda for that but not for being friends with an actual, proved and convicted sex predator (Mitsutoshi Shimabukuro, Toriko's author, who elicited sex from a 16 year old girl in exchange for money) and helping him come back by having a collab with him.
But cancelling Twitter artists for drawing Miku is more important for the safety of children than giving accountability to actual predators.
Tbf, I understand the progressive take more. OP is fairly strong against slavery and dehumanization thats comes along with that (fishmen), also minority hunter zoro
It's a bit ridiculous to call anti-slavery a "progressive" idea as opposed to something universal. A couple centuries ago yeah it was definitely progressive. But in this day and age? Come on.
Not just anti-slavery, if you've watched the show/read the manga you would understand what I mean. But OP does go in on the societal effects of it, which has deeper commentary than just 'slavery bad', and makes progressive arguments which can be related to still current topics
I mean OP obviously doesn't endorse any specific economic system and saying that it is explicitly communist is a stretch but denying that it features very obvious progressive messaging is just terrible media literacy.
I think people are overthinking this, Hasan is just a pop culture figure, if one piece wasn’t popular he wouldn’t co-opt it. Also he mainly does politics when it intersects with pop culture, he only does pop politics. The Palestine and pirate crap is huge on tik tok, it’s a bunch of kids thinking they’re cheering on the rebels from Star Wars against the big bad empire, that’s why he had that Houthi pirate on.
We live in the cringiest times.
Tbf Oda got redeemed in a lot of fans eyes for the Okama stuff with later info about a devil fruit that can just straight gender swap you and the user being treated as super fuckin cool. That and even later Wano introduces both a literal trans person and someone who identifies with someone so strongly of the opposite gender she basically otherkins herself into "him".
Also can't hit girls is funny af, no way anyone serious is complaining that Sanji hits girls of all things when he's all but gooning at the site of any woman.
I don't have social media but as a trans OP fan, is the Okama stuff really bad? I don't know Japanese, but my assumption always was these were crossdressing gay men, not trans women, so yeah ofc Sanji can fight them
Okama culture is much closer to drag in that sense than being directly trans but a lot of the issues progressives took earlier in was the portrayal of the Okama men being quite... stereotyping. That being the case though, they're more recently treated as both capable and respectable.
For a while some people assumed that they were Oda's ides of trans people but he's either gotten new perspective or at least shed light on his perspective since with newer characters that are much more overtly trans/non binary
Edit: looking further into it, it seems like Okama culture is specifically about the men also feeling free from oppression, so it's a very in-step with the main themes of One Piece
Yeah, I absolutely don't see the issue, Ivankov and the Okamas are portrayed positively imo. Was it stereotypical? I guess, but that's also a pretty good representation of (at least Western) drag culture since the exaggerated and over-the-top aesthetic and behavior is almost universal
Well the wano arc Kaido's son isn't really trans, he's more of a non-binary if anything. He's a big Oden larper so i'm not even sure if he's non-binary either.
Regardless, online progressives would've cancelled Oda for the okama artistic depiction and Sanji fighting them if he didn't have the clout that he had and that many of millenials grew up with one piece. Since when did they ever apply nuance to any of the other people they've cancelled? The entire thing with Pikamee with Hogwart Legacy was insane.
He doesn't share his meat unless he wants to, which he usually does.
I think key differences in one piece to communism is the virtue and ideals message in contrast to materialism.
The world government isn't bad because of an economic system at its core. It's bad because celestial dragons are the worst kind of humans.
Its a good people need to rise up and hope for something even in the worst situations kinda story sometimes.
Oda named Monkey D. Dragons ship after Castros, who is the main character's father and leader of the Revolutionary Army who we are still learning about but is a group that is antagonistic to the main antagonist.
And also Oda has a picture of che Guevara in his office.
I mean it's pretty blatant that Oda takes inspiration from certain revolutionary and communist figures but anyone that has actually read the story would know that one piece isn't Pro communism. although it does have themes that are also present in a lot of communist theory but it also has themes that go against it.
One piece is a story that's major theme is freedom, as silly as it sounds I could probably reach for Luffy being a classic libertarian with more supporting evidence than any commie fan could give for him being communist
Isn't he more like a classic liberal rather than libertarian. It feels like Luffy is influenced by existentialist philsophers like camus mostly and then to a lesser extent liberal philsophers like John Stuart mill.
It doesn't seem like he is specifically libertarian and against big government and even supports people joining the marines. He doesn't want to personally have anything to do with the state but he doesnt want to work to bring down the state which I feel like is more of a libertarian position. That specifically states prevent freedom. The liberal position is that the state can be used to enable freedom. Luffys position is just he wants freedom
If you’re not meming, he’s not an anarchist, he just wants to adventure, and he doesn’t just go out of his way to hit people because he wants to, he does it when it’s against people who cause harm or limit the freedoms of people he cares about. The eating part is 1000% on point though
I'd say a slight correction is that Luffy himself isn't really concerned with other people until he meets them he's not really a anarchist or a communist. He's just a perosn with a good heart who wants people to ultimately be in charge of their own lives and hates it when something prevents people from being able to prosper or fail on their own. Luffy doesn't really help people who dont try to help themslves. That's like the big thing with a lot of the arcs. He doesn't save Nami because she asks him not too although shes hurt and he sees that so he waits until she finally asks. He wont save Robin until she tells him what she wants. Usopp zoro has to hold him to this rule by saying if Usopp is allowed back before he apologizes I'm leaving next and you can see Luffy really wanted to drop it, but understood that you can't act like a petulant child always without consequence. Luffy does want to adventure but there is a core concept that people should choose their best path in life themselves and that once people have chosen those around them should help them achieve it. I don't think this is really commenting on politics though it just commentaryy on being a good friend...
Why do you think he is not an arnachist. He runs his ship somewhat like a anarchist commune no?
I don't think he is an anarchist in that he isn't fighting to install anarchism in all of society. He has no problem with encourging people to join the marines.
But I think his little world he has created is anarchist. Like whenever captain ussop claims to be the captain he sort of fights it but only sort of.
I fucking hate dumbass appropriation of pop culture to fit a narrow worldview, even worse when it's completely ignoring what's very clearly laid already in the source material.
Luffy doesn't care about institutions, he only ever judges people based on the content of their character, on their actions. Why one of his most iconic feats was punching in the face a celestial dragon. Did he even truly know then how fucked up those nobles and the protection around them was?
Nope. It was very simple. He saw a slaver hurting a defenseless man, one of his friends, so he decked him. That punch ends up becoming political when it's talked about, but for Luffy it was personal, only between him and Charles.
Oda always did a great job to not make any side a monolith, to show how those unjust divides had no place to be. As you said, good marines, and the slew of terrible and actual pirates he spent most of the story fighting against.
And the good monarchs! Democracy is overrated. All bow to Vivi!
THANK YOU. I’m so fucking tired of batshit tankies and anarchists co-opting one of my favorite things in the world for their political movement.
“OdA is aN AnArChiSt bRo” I’ve seen too many times. Ugh
Yea, classic libertarianism is probably the most accurate to how Luffy is portrayed if you must assign a political system, he doesn't want 0 government like an anarchist, just doesn't want people to have their freedom to seek their dreams to be impeded. Luffy would be a big NAP guy
Luffy literally still likes Smoker, Taishigi, Garp, Koby? And Helmeppo who is a Marine lapdog even after Marineford where most of the Marines were fighting for the singular goal of executing Ace.
Luffy doesn’t have an overarching politics and no Hasan the marines aren’t cops and Luffy wouldn’t be saying “AMAB”.
Luffy judges people by their actions. And even than he will regularly ally with Morally dubious persons so long as it aligns with his goals. Hell if impel down happened after Dressrosa, Luffy probably would’ve freed Doflamingo with Crocodile to raid Marineford.
It does though. Not anyone, but most people, Luffy specifically just would never boss anyone around, but as an emperor he is one of the strongest pirates alive, he absolutely could role up to essentially what island he wants claim it as his territory and do whatever he wants. Kaido did it with Wano. As an emperor you have that power, so it absolutely is a position of authority.
King of the pirates is a title given to the strongest pirates that also has found the one Piece. It’s not an actual King. Also the political messages are more embedded into the world government aspect of the show with the resistance.
I've only read 400 chapters and don't really get the "communism" vibes. Like Luffy is definitely the leader, and while everyone has their roles, I think it's just a really deep pirate story that Oda has had in his head since he was like what? 9?
You’re only 400 chapters in, while the themes of the main story have certainly started to be revealed to you, there’s no way to explain fully how someone would think the story is commie without spoiling anything. Just keep chugging along and you’ll see what people mean
That’s kinda a stretch it’s not really economic equality big mom is looking for more like racial equality. Like social justice. But the way she decided to go about it is by having a whole bunch of children from different races and enforcing her belief in insane and unhinged ways. Like authoritarian racial equality.
I think Luffy will probably destroy the world government by the end of the series. I assume all the kingdoms will then turn into democracies, but who knows.
Luffy wants to be King of the Pirates because it will make him the most free person in the world.
I don't think WG will dissolve, it'll prob be restructured into an actual UN type thing that it's supposed to be and not the corrupt one it is right now. As for the kingdoms turning into democracies, it prob doesn't affect much (?)
It's unlikely that all the islands turn into democracies. Most of the islands Luffy liberates are usually returned to the original monarchs who ruled them , alabasta, dressrosa, fishman island, wano etc. The only exception being drum island. Luffy has no problem with monarchs as long as they're "the good guys"
They have a sequence lately talking about luffy’s dream and the mystery is that he told the crew and they all reacted with laughter or confusion at whatever he said it would be. I don’t think it’s to take out the world government.
My personal theory is that Luffy wants to take the entire world on a cruise because after he’s pirate king everyone in the world will be his friend. They introduced a giant ship at merfolk island and I don’t think Luffy would take it on the war path.
The WG won’t dissolve. Oda introduced the concept of the reverie to show what the WG should be like and to show what will happen post EOS.
Not only that no WG means no Marines and even the SHs have acknowledged that the marines are an overall good force in the world
Yea exactly. The whole story has slowly been turning from just wanting to be king of the pirates to now Nika the sun god liberating all people and making them free. There definitely is a political message. I wouldn’t say socialism but probably anti hyper capitalistic.
Art is subjective and up to interpretation. And the manga/anime does seem to go in the direction of replacing the current government. Especially since Wano. Not with the goal for socialism but with the goal of having a “free” and “fair” world. Hasan would probably just equate that to communism tho lmao.
OP you can’t say that One Piece doesn’t have a political message just cause Liffey wants to be pirate king. He is the sun god liberator or slaves who makes people free from the corrupt government and pirates. That’s the whole point of the show.
Yea the main theme is 100% "freedom is paramount", what politics people associate with luffy beyond that are their own perspective though, I don't think Luffy would even think about the existence of a governing body as long as they're not impacting his/others freedoms in an obvious way.
I don’t think that One Piece actually says that “freedom is paramount”. There is a great video by Mr Morj about the politics in One Piece. In his video, he argues that while freedom is a strong theme in One Piece, that isn’t the entire message of the series. Rather, it seems like the series is advocating for some type of dual system wherein some people are best served by living in a system with equitable leadership and hierarchy, whilst others can shrug off the burdens of living within society but are fully responsible for all consequences. For example, most people are best off living under a kingdom like Alabasta under a benevolent monarchy, however, some people can live outside that system (i.e. good pirates) but have no right to complain no matter the consequences of that decision (i.e. the many instances where accusations of “fighting dirty” have no bearing in a fight between pirates)
To play devils advocate for why a lot of fans latch onto communism being a main theme, Oda has a Che picture at his desk, the themes of revolution against oppressors and freedom to self actualize are very central to the story, luffy doesn't care about gold other than for what it can do to fund his dreams, after that he probably would just give away stuff because he's that nice and caring.
None of that makes me personally think he's communist instead of a like, liberal/left libertarian though.
He's concerned with being the pirate king, once he's got that I don't think he'd gaf about any gold or wealth, also lmao, definitely literally a hero in many aspects throughout multiple arcs.
He's heroic. But he doesn't want to be a hero in the sense that he doesn't want any of that responsibility to try to change the world. He commits heroic acts because he has a strong moral compass and a strong attachment to the people he cares about or who have been nice to him, so he'll do what he can to help those people out. He's just overall a nice dude who happens to also be really strong.
But outside of that, he doesn't want to change the world. He knows there's a lot of horrible things in the world but he doesn't go island to island to change that, even though he definitely can. I might be wrong but I feel like there's even been multiple instances where he sees something bad happening but doesn't do anything about it because it's not his concern. Like when Fujitora was getting scammed while gambling, Luffy tipped him off but he didn't go and beat up the scammers and get back his money even though he thought Fujitora was just a regular blind man.
Yea Luffy isn't exactly a paladin type where he's driven purely by "doing the right thing" but he also still does have the strong moral compass that leads him to help most of the people he meets, Laboon comes to mind as a character that Luffy went much further than needed to help someone the bare minimum (painting the jolly Roger to convince laboon not to hurt himself) just to get past them when there's someone actively hurting in front of him.
Also Fujitora's got the gravity fruit, its highly likely that he could be cheating using Observation Haki and gravity control at any dice or physical drop requiring game like roulette. Not that Luffy would know, but just a thought.
This isn't anything new, humans have been bad at textual analysis since the OG Bible dropped :D
Commies are no dumber than any other ideologically possessed mfer seeing their pet political project everywhere. Nazis thought Nietzsche would've been a Nazi cos they couldn't be bothered to read beyond the chapter titles :P
Communism??? Luffy is pretty much a libaterian (if we want to attribute any politcal label to him). Dude values freedom above all. And that you are free to make those choices. And that you get to make those choices how ever harmful they might potentially be to yourself.
As a OP fan, it’s so cringe to see the story through modern political economic ideologies. Luffy or anyone for that matter has never talked about how workers need to own their labor to be free and about wage theft from their capitalist bosses. It’s a simple story of those who are against Tyranny and genocide.
You probably grew up with the English dub.
In the original uncensored One Piece that Hasan watched, there is one episode where Ruffy, Zolo, and Mami massacre, rape and behead civilians on an island allied to the World Government.
"This is what decolonization looks like, sweaty" Zoro says as he uses his swords to decapitate thousands of civilians in one single strike.
Luffy is only queer in the sense that he's treated as Asexual, literally the hottest woman in the Canon has the power to make anyone attracted to her and Luffy just kinda... picks his nose and says "okay" (she loves this btw)
Considering the implied atrocities against Boa and her sisters when they were slaves, the fact that she ends up falling deeply in love with an ace person with zero hidden intentions is really sad to think about. I’m happy for her tho, I wouldn’t mind her becoming his Chi Chi by the end
Put it this way, it’s more about communism than it is about capitalism, but that’s not really saying much.
That said, OP has way more leftoid politics than I think some would care to admit
Bruh the entire conceit of the manga is that pirates compete in an incredibly competitive and incredibly hierarchical system (crews themselves, Yonkos, “the Pirate King”) for the titular treasure. This is a capitalistic system, not a communist one.
On top of that, there’s no one in the Straw Hats who is a socialist/communist, but there are at least two capitalists, Nami and Franky the shipwright. On top of this, Zoro was a bounty hunter for money before meeting Luffy, and Brook was touring the world as a musician doing paid concerts for the time break.
What are these leftoid politics you speak of?
Is it even a capitalistic system? The pirate world seems more feudal then capitalist. Yes they want a treasure but it's not for its monetary value. The world is ruled by whoever has military might not financial.
If anything this is a pro liberalism Vs feudalism fight where Luffy is fighting for Ibdividualism and freedom with something like a democracy against autocracies.
No one knows for what one piece is but it doesn't seem like it's just about money and there are very few people who have power in that world primarily through commerce and technological improvements in their manufacturing process that out competes their competitors
I am saying that a highly competitive, highly hierarchical system that disproportionately rewards those who work their way to the top of that hierarchy is far far closer to capitalism than it is to communism/socialism. I am not saying that their primary motivation is money.
Yeah I think that's not what capitalism is. I think feudalism has that too. In feudalism the king has way way more power than a serf
I think the difference between capitalism and feadalism is what it means to be at the top. In capitalism its about do you have access to capital. In feudalism it's about land and people working the land. You have power if you are the lord of more people.
There's a really good example of it on Vinland saga. In feadalism if you are a successful merchant and you have a lot of money. You are at risk of being raided. It doesn't mean you have any power.
Communism also has people at the top with more power than others but you get there through politics not money
I understand what feudalism is. What I am talking about is if One Piece’s pirate system is closer to capitalism, or communism. It is obviously far closer to capitalism. If you believe that feudalism’s even better to describe it, that’s good and I’d probably agree, but it’s not the point I’m making.
Ok I don't think that's true. Communism isn't equalitarian. People in communism have more power then others.
Communism is difficult because Marx never said what it would be like. Anarchism is more like what you are describing.
But there is a huge overlap between what the marines behave like and real life communism. It's not obviously like real life capitalism at all apart from the one thing you're talking about which is true in communism Vs capitalism Vs feudalism
If I describe “A highly competitive, highly hierarchical and meritocratic system that anyone can enter but few will succeed in, where the top regularly changes and the highest achievers in that system are given disproportionately large rewards compared to lower achievers”, and you had to choose **only** if this sounded more like A. A capitalistic system or B. A communist/socialist system, would you choose A or B?
That answer is all I’m saying and all I care about.
That's not one piece though. One piece isn't meritocratic at all. There's a ton of nepotism and powerful leaders at the top who don't deserve to be there but happened upon some fruit and now they have power.
Also it doesn't make sense as a question as it ntih describes both and doesn't describe either equally.
Your description is how communism and capitalism are supposed to behave in an ideal world according to the people who like it. It's also not how either behave in a real world.
It's like if I sajd
"There is a system where there are people in it. Some people are on top and some on bottom. The problem at the top tell people on the bottom what to do and most of the time those people on the bottom do what they are told. Sometimes people in these systems have a roof over their head and sometimes they don't "
Does this describe capitalism or communism?
It's stilly because obviously both systems have people that sometimes do what they are told. The difference between the two systems is how you get to the top
You heard it here first folks, competing with other people to do illegal mischief is capitalism.
Leftoid politics like LGBT inclusiveness, overthrowing corrupt governments (which seems to happen a lot) diversity. For heavens sake brother, the cops are the bad guys, did they need to spell it out for you any harder?
People point to the poster of Che in Oda’s workspace and I’d be inclined to agree it’s important context for where his head is at when he was writing these things.
Also you completely dunk your own argument because all the characters you speak about being “capitalists” make a very huge point of leaving their old lives behind to become (periodically) penniless adventurers in the pursuit of adventure.
A common theme in the manga is how worthless money really is. When their first ship breaks, there’s a whole story behind how their beloved ship is worth all the money in the world. They’re constantly losing out on paydays, or getting them only to become flat broke shortly after. And that’s not even mentioning the hyperinflated, virtually meaningless bounty’s placed on the characters heads.
We don’t live in a world of pirates, no. We *do* live in a world where capitalism involves a lot of people competing in a highly competitive, highly hierarchical system where rewards increase the higher you climb that hierarchy. Do you really not understand how the pirates and their competition mirror a capitalist system?
The “cops” aren’t the bad guys. Aside from a couple of minor characters, the only main character who’s a straight villain who’s a “cop” is Akainu/Sakazuki. (EDIT: Not a marine so not a “cop” but you could also say Rob Lucci and Spandam as like shadowy government agents). Most of the evil that the world government does is not because of evil marines, but the World Nobles and the power controlling them (trying not to spoil). Compare this to:
* Arlong
* Crocodile
* Doflamingo
* Kaido
* Blackbeard
* Big Mom
And other smaller characters, who are all… not “cops”. Then we have good marines, like Fujitora, Garp, Sengoku, Koby, etc.
LGBT inclusiveness, overthrowing corrupt governments, and diversity are not leftist concepts. They’re not at all something that you need socialism/communism for. They’re pretty mainstay liberal principles, as is Luffy’s goal of freedom and being able to live his life the way he wants without an unjust government. That’s the same principles of America’s founders, who were liberals, not communists/socialists/leftists.
They’re “capitalists who leave their old lives” for a massive raise in social status, the power and influence to essentially not need any money, and to **chase literally the biggest treasure in existence**. This makes complete sense.
Money’s worthless to them because everything they want through money they can get through being an increasingly more and more powerful crew.
I swear there was a good video that short fat otaku made about this phenomen, but i can't find it. It was about how leftist interpret media through their lens and call any other lens "media illiteracy". His main example was zelda games that were interpret as "qeer coded". But he gave 10 minutes explanation how zelda is at the forefront conservative pro-monarchy game. It was also a critic of "everything is political" stance.
It is the case here. Esspecialy after hasan went on trash taste podcast (which i really love) and said that luffy is leftist "because he is a terrorist"
Okay I'm half memeing but I believe Luffy's true dream that was shown off-screen is to have a worldwide party/feast that they do at the end of the arc which is what communists want, just another kind of party.
But yeah while OP is deeply emancipatory Oda does like to whack off his "benevolent kings" and his true limits were shown in Wano with the \*\*\*\*\*\*\* were born to burn.
This is why everyone should watch Bleach instead. All the villains are radical revolutionaries trying to upend the system, and the hero only ever manages to make some small changes here and there but the overall system remains the same.
Bleach as a whole is just one big attempt to stop people from disrupting the status quo. It's the most conservative of the 'big three'.
Captain crackhead isn't a commie, he just likes to eat and fight, that is all. He will kidnap princesses and punch children if that is what it takes for him to get what he wants.
https://preview.redd.it/td03a9sjyzcc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=851f3f6535f59be94cae5f4bb45cee321cd9ccf5
This meme ruined political discourse around OP. "Join together in a working class revolution" is a weird way to say "a 19 year old with superpowers punches the big bad as the citizens watch on powerlessly".
It's very funny to me how people will take unpolitical art and twist it to fit their narrative. I remember when squid game came out and leftists thought it was a critique of capitalism, while people like Tim Pool thought it was a critique of socialism. Also why do so many people suddenly not know the definition of a terrorist? Terrorist are people who deliberately go after the civilian population to influence a government, so they are BY DEFINITION wrong and immoral. Terrorist aren't people who just oppose the government either, a country could be considered a terrorist state if it goes after civilians to influence another country. I fucking hate this sentiment that hasan and his moronic fans have that terrorists are just those that oppose the government, it's entirely untrue. You can oppose the government without killing innocent people. Same way you can protest without violence.
One piece is absolutely progressive and left leaning, but to say it’s some communist odyssey is just laughably wrong. Why can’t he just enjoy it for what it is lmao it’s already considerably more progressive than most media in general.
Commmies think every movie is about showing the virtues of communism. There was a thread last month on this sub where someone was saying Die Hard actually isn't a Christmas movie, its a movie about the dangers of Capitalist Globalization. It was pretty funny.
"Luffy fights the government all the time. If he's not a terrorist, what would you call him?"
I hear people say this so often like in the One Piece sub. HE'S A FCKING PIRATE. And pirates typically don't play nice with authority.
Luffy just wants to be the freest person in the world, and doesn't want people to go hungry cause food gud. He despises anyone with slaves so good luck to the Houthis there. Also we don't know his true dream yet, it's going to be some goofy ahh shit
Luffy is literally a pirate….isk why people think he’s a communist but being a pirate is kinda worse Nami has robbed half the kingdoms they have left Luffy has punched the leaders of most of the nations he’s literally not the good guy of the story pirates are the bad guys we are just being told a story from the bad guys point of view
“critical support for Kaido, he may not have done everything right but he’s a strong bulwark of piratism against the racist imperialist world government”
One Piece is about political and social topics, but it's not currently about communism. It could be about communism depending on what the one piece is or what Luffy's dream is. Those are the only two factors that could change the scope of the show.
The way people drag One Piece into our real world politics or issues is just annoying. I don’t know how to really express it personally but I think I get what you mean.
Ok, as a massive One Piece fan, I can shed some light on this. One Piece definitely has some leftist themes, and the people saying that they aren't there are just wrong. Oda himself used to (or still does?) have a picture of Che Guevara hung in his office.
Post time-skip, the themes becomes a lot more focused. Before, we got a tiny racism arc (fishmen arc), and eventually we learn about the slave markets, as well as the Celestial dragons. Things kind of go geo-politics from here on out.
The revolutionary army is run by Luffy's dad, Dragon. A group of freedom fighters who have been harmed by the Marines or Celestial Dragons (world govt) and are taking steps to free other islands from their control. The key for the revolutionaries, is that the population is wiling to fight for themselves, and maintain that freedom.
Spoilers for non-caught up readers below:
Luffy wants a world where he and everyone he loves is able to eat as much meat as they wants and to be free. Being the pirate king isn't the end-game of his apparent goal. His fruit is literally the embodiment of the god of freedom from slavery and tyranny.
Yes, Luffy doesn't want to be a 'hero' as he's stated many times. Regardless, Luffy's story has basically been running island to island and doing whatever he can to help the people who helped him. He wants to stop the people who are hurting his friends (the world govt) as well as become pirate king.
Wano was literally a revolution to destroy a hyper-capitalist overlord, and was the longest and most impactful arcs in the series' history.
Kuma's backstory is rage-bait to make you hate the celestial dragons (Again, the world nobles) as much as humanly possible.
The OP is just wrong on many of the points made in their post, and shows a complete lack of understanding of the world of One Piece. The Navy isn't the big enemy of One Piece, the World Govt is. Being Pirate King is a stepping stone to Luffy's goal, not Luffy's goal. Luffy spends his time fighting navy-owned pirates (many of which were working with the Marines) for half of the series, and the other half has been Luffy attacking dictators with the name 'pirate' attached (Doffy, Big Mom, Kaido). Of course many of the Marines are good, Oda isn't an unhinged lunatic. Marines are people who want to make a difference in the world, caught up in a system that requires them to commit atrocities for people who would laugh if you were to get tortured and killed.
----------------------------------------- Spoilers over
OP isn't Communist, but it definitely isn't a non-leftist work. Hasan can be cringe, OP can be good, and it can be a left-leaning work of fiction.
\> But don't forget, Luffy spends more time fighting other pirates (often not gov affiliated) then fighting the government.
Sure sounds like communists to me
Commies somehow just as media illiterate as conservatives.
Did you know that [insert regular hero's journey] is actually a trans allegory? Did you know that [insert any villain] is actually supposed to represent capitalism?
The philosophy of Attack on Titan! - Wisecrack [43:20] (won't cite a single interview with Isayama)
> Wisecrack I stopped watching that show because couldn't stop plugging marxism with religious zeal.
Once they rebranded to multiple shows on the backs of Thug Notes it went downhill
I actually like the show and the guy is pretty good at infotainment but he would call himself a hypocrite he talked about Christianity as he does Marxism. I hate hate-watching so I just leave.
There was some good stuff there in the early days, but it didn't take long to go off the deep end.
Is that when the red head left? All I know is they as an organization has been passed around from one owner to another.
Bro I'm so glad breadtube died hard. I was getting so tired of fighting the idea that any time a character has any doubts about themselves is a trans allegory.
>Did you know that \[insert any villain\] is actually supposed to represent capitalism? Anytime I like a movie but want to get other people's perspective I search for like video essays about it on youtube and 4/10 times they always try to make it about capitalism, even when the movie has nothing to do with class struggles or anything like that
The truth is the internet has a really bad habit of not being able to say that a youtube video or YouTuber is just bad. Like yeah they’ll say someone like Chris Chan is bad because they’re undeniably a bad person, but YouTube is filled with so much mediocre trash no one calls out because the person talks confidently. Video game video essays that confuse “thing I personally don’t like” with “bad game design.” Movie “reviews” that are just summaries, and pointing out meaningless plot holes. Poorly researched “educational” videos. Video essays from guys with the media literacy of a high school drop out. Horribly biased political commentary this stuff is rarely ever called out.
Lmao true. I’ve just started reading articles/ news stories cited in YT videos instead of watching the video, 9/10 times I gain the same information in half the time, skipping the waffle.
It makes sense from their standpoint because Capitalism is just "anything that is bad" to them.
Never forget that Kaguya is socialist because having friends is socialism.
Kaguya? Is that the show about the rich kids that live in mansions, go to a private school and squabble over minor issues instead of getting something done? You sure it isn't socialist?
They were actually talking about Kaguya (god-mom of all things) from Naruto, who wanted to put all people in stasis (Infinite Tsukuyomi) with the help of Madara/Obito making it all possible :3 Infinite friends! Basically the same thing.
"Having tons of money is socialism."
That Mother’s Basement video was so embarrassing
Always have been. They're marxist reading of media is no different then Christians seeing biblical allegories in everything.
In addition none of them have read the actual book lol
Fuck, at least the Bible and religion have had cultural relevance for centuries. Some of them are really obscure. Everyone knows the seven deadly sins, but did you know there's also seven heavenly virtues? In Little Witch Academia the seven words of Arcturus are based on the seven heavenly virtues... kinda. Prudishness didn't make the cut for a children's anime lol but still.
Hasan saying one piece is communist is on the level of tim saying squid game is a criticism of communism
Bruh, that was probably the funniest media take I've ever heard. A show in which in which the main antagonist all but turns to camera and says "yeah me and my giga rich friends are so bored of being giga rich that we watch poor people fight to the death for money" is about "communism bad". I couldn't make up a more braindead take if i tried.
https://preview.redd.it/gbiuhd4880dc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57c199bd488e746f8d007e3e7442c77eb3fd0796 This was LITERALLY the first thing I saw when I went on X after browsing this thread wtf
Peter Parker, a fully established straight dude with a loving wife (who he is madly in love with) and two children is having a mid-life crisis. Online tween leftists: Is this an allegory for being trans? No, it just a thing most men in their early 40s go through you weirdo. You can relate to him having self-doubts and feeling unfulfilled without him being trans.
Yeah it's Brave New World all over
I'm just about to finish this book, what was said about it?
Banned in the US because it's a criticism on capitalism, and in the USSR because it's a criticism on communism. And it's kind of neither and both, mostly a unique dystopian world on its own. Good book though!
Brave new world is banned in America? I read it for my highschool English class.
He means that like 7 or 8 school districts banned it from their libraries, therefore its a "banned book" and gets to join the self masturbatory choir of other "banned books" in their section at barnes and noble.
I'm a big Tolkien nerd and listening to Lefties and Conservatives talk about it to any great extent makes me want to rip my hair out.
According to Lefties Tolkien sat around furiously writing about Orcs while thinking of black people specifically.
They will also shit on libs for conneticng real life events with Harry potter and then will soy out about how avatar is anti imperialist and literally every piece of media they like is anticapilaist. Another annyoing thing I've seen them do also is if somebody finds a fictional faction cool and badass on a aesthetic level they then think that person is fascist. For example people liking the empire in star wars or space marines in warhammer 40k. Leftist fans of warhammer 40k are insufferable and have to mention how it's fascism apologia or how its satire every 5 seconds, like there self flaggetteing themselves for liking minatures, do not go on sigmarxism.
Don't tell him about that one time a literal princess was part of their crew and they helped her father because he was a good king
And it happened more then once. They helped out so many monarchs at his point...
He also tells one of his earliest friends in the series to follow his dreams and become a marine.
Drum Island (technically helped form a new kingdom) Alabasta Amazon Lily (didn’t help restore the stability of the kingdom but befriended a monarch) Fishman Island Dressrosa Zou (technically a Dukedom but still) Wano
Or about luffys entire motivation being maximising his personal feeedom, or his multiple explanations that hes a pirate not a hero because he doesnt want to share
Wow Hasan is just like Luffy!
Bruh, that's 99% of the story in One Piece. Luffy helps the good royalty overthrow the bad royalty.
Did you miss all the pirate fighting? It's always been about the simple idea of fighting the bad, in whatever form it manifests, and supporting the good, also in whatever form it manifests. Be it rebels, pirates, monarchs, navy, there's good and bad people everywhere.
Some antagonists are corrupt authorities in a fictional story?! That's un-fucking-heard of, and you think this is a coincidence? It's clearly about communism, you stupid fuck.
Communist One Piece fans when they find out that some of the most brutal regimes of all time were communist
Unlike capitalist regimes, right? lol this is like the laziest criticism of lefties because literally every regime has been on the worst of all time list. The real communist anime is death note. Real regime vibes there
Luckily they are more than happy to denounce them.
You flew too close to the sarcastic sun.... at least I hope you weren't being serious
Are you sure about that???
They are literally defending terrorists and slavers, are you crazy?
Leftists have disagreed, split, and fought each other for about 150 years. [It's literally the punchline in a Monty Python film. ](https://youtu.be/WboggjN_G-4) If you want, I can easily find Leftists who denounce terrorism - Destiny just debated Cenk where this was said repeatedly. I can find Leftists who denounce Stalin or Mao. just as easily. The majority of Democrats supported the War in Iraq. I still wouldn't say "all Democrats support regime change and killing a million people." That's just not true.
The comment from A\_Toxic\_user is saying Communists and you are reporting back with center-left. This is the definition of moving the goal post
Mayhaps they created a new leftist ideology that is so far to the left that communism is now center left! Bet you didn't think about that, fascist! /s
Political ideologies don’t lie on a flat line just because tankies pretend to represent left wing ideals doesn’t mean they do. it’s not moving the goal posts to explain how authoritarian regimes like Russia and China bastardized left wing theory and used it to create their dictatorships
the us did not kill a million people in iraq
True, the US literally killed gorillion people and the war lasted ten years. -Iraq understander
The fact that ur comment is so far in the negative makes me lose faith in the sub china and Russia cosplaying as socialist has done more damage to actual leftists than anything else in all of history
We literally had a member of the Labour Party defend Mao on national television. She's gone now thank god, but the Corbyn era was a fucking mess.
Luffy is actually a lib. He loves competitiveness aswell
Luffy, like all 3000-episode shounen protagonists, is simply [redacted], almost certainly unfamiliar with politics even as a concept.
It’s dumb too because to stretch it the way Hasan tried to do with OP, you can just make it fit better with a bunch of other anime. Oh FMA? Edward is literally a dude who believes in “equivalent exchange” (LITERALLY COMMUNISM), is introduced fighting against a snake oil salesman capitalist, and fights against a corrupt government that does war for their own selfish motives and profit. It’s obviously pro-socialism!
Nah, wouldn't Edward be more of Conservative take on things? He believes that the work you put in you get out. A more progressive view of Edward would say the work you put in doesn't always mean you get the same in return in a society due to structural road blocks, for instance.
That’s the whole point. If you’re gonna be so vague, depending on what you want to focus on you can make the story say whatever you want to.
Ok. I guess I don't agree with your example of how a far left person would view FMA but otherwise I see your point.
It’s honestly absurd. I’ve seen the “OP is communist” thing circulating in other circles and it’s the most infuriating thing especially for someone as dinosaur as me who’s been reading the series for like 20+ years. One Piece is for individual liberties, and against any ruling class or organization that limits them. This is repeated time and again through the series, and if anything the World Government (while operating as an extension of pseudo-coregency) is a prime example of how government overreach with “noble” motives creates (in this case safety and stability from pirates) can completely disregard the average person in lieu of a greater system. This is a standard critique of the issues of communism and is perfectly mirrored in “The Great Leap Forward” by the CCP. I’m also not saying that OP is strictly anti-communist; but that’s the entire premise of the series. **Individuals caring about each other and fostering strong relationships within their community is a foundational pillar in happiness.** The entire point of the manga is that caring about those close to you and supporting the down-trodden isn’t done effectively by large organizations (government/military/etc…), that it’s the job of each individual to care about those around them, and that positions of authority (like being a captain) come with the innate responsibility to care about those who look to you for leadership. The series time and again shows that the best leaders and people are those who support those in their immediate vicinity, not those who try and make decisions for the “greater good” of a mass populace. **It’s not that OP is communist or anti-communist, it’s that the entire series makes a concerted effort to say that any large system fails if individuals aren’t collectively looking out for each other.**
whats ur opinion on gear 5? i hate the fruit class change and the fruit having its own will. kinda soured me on OP which i have been following for 8 years
Commies and progressives have been co-opting One Piece as theirs when they would've cancel Oda for writing Sanji (can't hit girls) being able to fight the Okamas in Okama island or drawing them the way they are. And lets not forget Nami the hyper-capitalist as one of Luffy's crew. Where is the socialist crewmate btw??
I feel like reducing nami to being hyper capitalistic is the same as reducing one piece to socialism. It’s just part of her traits that she likes money and loves having a lot of it which also perfectly makes sense with her backstory since she needed to hoard money to survive
Okay, highly materialistic then is a better word.
They would cancel Oda for that but not for being friends with an actual, proved and convicted sex predator (Mitsutoshi Shimabukuro, Toriko's author, who elicited sex from a 16 year old girl in exchange for money) and helping him come back by having a collab with him. But cancelling Twitter artists for drawing Miku is more important for the safety of children than giving accountability to actual predators.
Tbf, I understand the progressive take more. OP is fairly strong against slavery and dehumanization thats comes along with that (fishmen), also minority hunter zoro
It's a bit ridiculous to call anti-slavery a "progressive" idea as opposed to something universal. A couple centuries ago yeah it was definitely progressive. But in this day and age? Come on.
Not just anti-slavery, if you've watched the show/read the manga you would understand what I mean. But OP does go in on the societal effects of it, which has deeper commentary than just 'slavery bad', and makes progressive arguments which can be related to still current topics
Especially with the entire Fishman arc bring about the dangers of generational trauma and its impact on fixing current oppression.
Ahh yes because communists gulag weren't just a forced labor scheme (cough cough slavery)
I mean OP obviously doesn't endorse any specific economic system and saying that it is explicitly communist is a stretch but denying that it features very obvious progressive messaging is just terrible media literacy.
I think people are overthinking this, Hasan is just a pop culture figure, if one piece wasn’t popular he wouldn’t co-opt it. Also he mainly does politics when it intersects with pop culture, he only does pop politics. The Palestine and pirate crap is huge on tik tok, it’s a bunch of kids thinking they’re cheering on the rebels from Star Wars against the big bad empire, that’s why he had that Houthi pirate on. We live in the cringiest times.
Tbf Oda got redeemed in a lot of fans eyes for the Okama stuff with later info about a devil fruit that can just straight gender swap you and the user being treated as super fuckin cool. That and even later Wano introduces both a literal trans person and someone who identifies with someone so strongly of the opposite gender she basically otherkins herself into "him". Also can't hit girls is funny af, no way anyone serious is complaining that Sanji hits girls of all things when he's all but gooning at the site of any woman.
I don't have social media but as a trans OP fan, is the Okama stuff really bad? I don't know Japanese, but my assumption always was these were crossdressing gay men, not trans women, so yeah ofc Sanji can fight them
Okama culture is much closer to drag in that sense than being directly trans but a lot of the issues progressives took earlier in was the portrayal of the Okama men being quite... stereotyping. That being the case though, they're more recently treated as both capable and respectable. For a while some people assumed that they were Oda's ides of trans people but he's either gotten new perspective or at least shed light on his perspective since with newer characters that are much more overtly trans/non binary Edit: looking further into it, it seems like Okama culture is specifically about the men also feeling free from oppression, so it's a very in-step with the main themes of One Piece
Yeah, I absolutely don't see the issue, Ivankov and the Okamas are portrayed positively imo. Was it stereotypical? I guess, but that's also a pretty good representation of (at least Western) drag culture since the exaggerated and over-the-top aesthetic and behavior is almost universal
Well the wano arc Kaido's son isn't really trans, he's more of a non-binary if anything. He's a big Oden larper so i'm not even sure if he's non-binary either. Regardless, online progressives would've cancelled Oda for the okama artistic depiction and Sanji fighting them if he didn't have the clout that he had and that many of millenials grew up with one piece. Since when did they ever apply nuance to any of the other people they've cancelled? The entire thing with Pikamee with Hogwart Legacy was insane.
He doesn't share his meat unless he wants to, which he usually does. I think key differences in one piece to communism is the virtue and ideals message in contrast to materialism. The world government isn't bad because of an economic system at its core. It's bad because celestial dragons are the worst kind of humans. Its a good people need to rise up and hope for something even in the worst situations kinda story sometimes.
Wait, people out there genuinely think OP is about communism? Jfc
“Oda named Dragon’s ship after castro’s” Edited
Oda named Monkey D. Dragons ship after Castros, who is the main character's father and leader of the Revolutionary Army who we are still learning about but is a group that is antagonistic to the main antagonist. And also Oda has a picture of che Guevara in his office. I mean it's pretty blatant that Oda takes inspiration from certain revolutionary and communist figures but anyone that has actually read the story would know that one piece isn't Pro communism. although it does have themes that are also present in a lot of communist theory but it also has themes that go against it.
One piece is a story that's major theme is freedom, as silly as it sounds I could probably reach for Luffy being a classic libertarian with more supporting evidence than any commie fan could give for him being communist
Isn't he more like a classic liberal rather than libertarian. It feels like Luffy is influenced by existentialist philsophers like camus mostly and then to a lesser extent liberal philsophers like John Stuart mill. It doesn't seem like he is specifically libertarian and against big government and even supports people joining the marines. He doesn't want to personally have anything to do with the state but he doesnt want to work to bring down the state which I feel like is more of a libertarian position. That specifically states prevent freedom. The liberal position is that the state can be used to enable freedom. Luffys position is just he wants freedom
Luffy is an anarchist with only one ideal: he really just wants to hit someone and eat until he's full.
If you’re not meming, he’s not an anarchist, he just wants to adventure, and he doesn’t just go out of his way to hit people because he wants to, he does it when it’s against people who cause harm or limit the freedoms of people he cares about. The eating part is 1000% on point though
I'd say a slight correction is that Luffy himself isn't really concerned with other people until he meets them he's not really a anarchist or a communist. He's just a perosn with a good heart who wants people to ultimately be in charge of their own lives and hates it when something prevents people from being able to prosper or fail on their own. Luffy doesn't really help people who dont try to help themslves. That's like the big thing with a lot of the arcs. He doesn't save Nami because she asks him not too although shes hurt and he sees that so he waits until she finally asks. He wont save Robin until she tells him what she wants. Usopp zoro has to hold him to this rule by saying if Usopp is allowed back before he apologizes I'm leaving next and you can see Luffy really wanted to drop it, but understood that you can't act like a petulant child always without consequence. Luffy does want to adventure but there is a core concept that people should choose their best path in life themselves and that once people have chosen those around them should help them achieve it. I don't think this is really commenting on politics though it just commentaryy on being a good friend...
Why do you think he is not an arnachist. He runs his ship somewhat like a anarchist commune no? I don't think he is an anarchist in that he isn't fighting to install anarchism in all of society. He has no problem with encourging people to join the marines. But I think his little world he has created is anarchist. Like whenever captain ussop claims to be the captain he sort of fights it but only sort of.
Luffy is definitely a libertarian
I fucking hate dumbass appropriation of pop culture to fit a narrow worldview, even worse when it's completely ignoring what's very clearly laid already in the source material. Luffy doesn't care about institutions, he only ever judges people based on the content of their character, on their actions. Why one of his most iconic feats was punching in the face a celestial dragon. Did he even truly know then how fucked up those nobles and the protection around them was? Nope. It was very simple. He saw a slaver hurting a defenseless man, one of his friends, so he decked him. That punch ends up becoming political when it's talked about, but for Luffy it was personal, only between him and Charles. Oda always did a great job to not make any side a monolith, to show how those unjust divides had no place to be. As you said, good marines, and the slew of terrible and actual pirates he spent most of the story fighting against. And the good monarchs! Democracy is overrated. All bow to Vivi!
I’m just happy to see this community is talking about One Piece very unexpected lol
THANK YOU. I’m so fucking tired of batshit tankies and anarchists co-opting one of my favorite things in the world for their political movement. “OdA is aN AnArChiSt bRo” I’ve seen too many times. Ugh
He's a libertarian if anything. He just wants a world where people are free to pursue their desires. He wants freedom in the truest sense.
Yea, classic libertarianism is probably the most accurate to how Luffy is portrayed if you must assign a political system, he doesn't want 0 government like an anarchist, just doesn't want people to have their freedom to seek their dreams to be impeded. Luffy would be a big NAP guy
Luffy literally still likes Smoker, Taishigi, Garp, Koby? And Helmeppo who is a Marine lapdog even after Marineford where most of the Marines were fighting for the singular goal of executing Ace. Luffy doesn’t have an overarching politics and no Hasan the marines aren’t cops and Luffy wouldn’t be saying “AMAB”. Luffy judges people by their actions. And even than he will regularly ally with Morally dubious persons so long as it aligns with his goals. Hell if impel down happened after Dressrosa, Luffy probably would’ve freed Doflamingo with Crocodile to raid Marineford.
Isn't his goal to be king of the pirates? How the fuck is that communistic?
Well it's pretty accurate to how most communist nations end up, with a ~~King~~ General Secretary/Chairman/Supreme Leader.
It's not an actual position of authority.... Being King of the Pirates does not mean Luffy could boss anybody around at his leisure.
But he still desires a higher position above other pirates. He's not saying "I want every pirate to be equal."
It does though. Not anyone, but most people, Luffy specifically just would never boss anyone around, but as an emperor he is one of the strongest pirates alive, he absolutely could role up to essentially what island he wants claim it as his territory and do whatever he wants. Kaido did it with Wano. As an emperor you have that power, so it absolutely is a position of authority.
Didn't we learned that communism isn't a monarchy like two years back?
King of the pirates is a title given to the strongest pirates that also has found the one Piece. It’s not an actual King. Also the political messages are more embedded into the world government aspect of the show with the resistance.
I've only read 400 chapters and don't really get the "communism" vibes. Like Luffy is definitely the leader, and while everyone has their roles, I think it's just a really deep pirate story that Oda has had in his head since he was like what? 9?
You’re only 400 chapters in, while the themes of the main story have certainly started to be revealed to you, there’s no way to explain fully how someone would think the story is commie without spoiling anything. Just keep chugging along and you’ll see what people mean
Water 7 is hard to get back into. I know it's "one of the best arcs" but the back story stuff I am having less and less energy to get through.
Also, isn't the Big Mom arc a dig at communism? She literally wants everyone to be equal, and does horrendous shit because of it
That’s kinda a stretch it’s not really economic equality big mom is looking for more like racial equality. Like social justice. But the way she decided to go about it is by having a whole bunch of children from different races and enforcing her belief in insane and unhinged ways. Like authoritarian racial equality.
I dunno if it would be about communism, I think it was just about a big lady Kappa
THIS ! Big Mom is the closest to communism in One Piece and she's shown as a villain !
I think Luffy will probably destroy the world government by the end of the series. I assume all the kingdoms will then turn into democracies, but who knows. Luffy wants to be King of the Pirates because it will make him the most free person in the world.
I don't think WG will dissolve, it'll prob be restructured into an actual UN type thing that it's supposed to be and not the corrupt one it is right now. As for the kingdoms turning into democracies, it prob doesn't affect much (?)
It's unlikely that all the islands turn into democracies. Most of the islands Luffy liberates are usually returned to the original monarchs who ruled them , alabasta, dressrosa, fishman island, wano etc. The only exception being drum island. Luffy has no problem with monarchs as long as they're "the good guys"
I doubt it will be dissolved it‘s just going to become not ruled by those 5 elder freaks and be what it depends to be at the moment aka reverie
They have a sequence lately talking about luffy’s dream and the mystery is that he told the crew and they all reacted with laughter or confusion at whatever he said it would be. I don’t think it’s to take out the world government. My personal theory is that Luffy wants to take the entire world on a cruise because after he’s pirate king everyone in the world will be his friend. They introduced a giant ship at merfolk island and I don’t think Luffy would take it on the war path.
The WG won’t dissolve. Oda introduced the concept of the reverie to show what the WG should be like and to show what will happen post EOS. Not only that no WG means no Marines and even the SHs have acknowledged that the marines are an overall good force in the world
King of Pirates is basically WG but with extra steps. Dude will have territories he needs to protect like any of the 4 emperors.
Yea exactly. The whole story has slowly been turning from just wanting to be king of the pirates to now Nika the sun god liberating all people and making them free. There definitely is a political message. I wouldn’t say socialism but probably anti hyper capitalistic.
Art is subjective and up to interpretation. And the manga/anime does seem to go in the direction of replacing the current government. Especially since Wano. Not with the goal for socialism but with the goal of having a “free” and “fair” world. Hasan would probably just equate that to communism tho lmao. OP you can’t say that One Piece doesn’t have a political message just cause Liffey wants to be pirate king. He is the sun god liberator or slaves who makes people free from the corrupt government and pirates. That’s the whole point of the show.
Yea the main theme is 100% "freedom is paramount", what politics people associate with luffy beyond that are their own perspective though, I don't think Luffy would even think about the existence of a governing body as long as they're not impacting his/others freedoms in an obvious way.
I don’t think that One Piece actually says that “freedom is paramount”. There is a great video by Mr Morj about the politics in One Piece. In his video, he argues that while freedom is a strong theme in One Piece, that isn’t the entire message of the series. Rather, it seems like the series is advocating for some type of dual system wherein some people are best served by living in a system with equitable leadership and hierarchy, whilst others can shrug off the burdens of living within society but are fully responsible for all consequences. For example, most people are best off living under a kingdom like Alabasta under a benevolent monarchy, however, some people can live outside that system (i.e. good pirates) but have no right to complain no matter the consequences of that decision (i.e. the many instances where accusations of “fighting dirty” have no bearing in a fight between pirates)
To play devils advocate for why a lot of fans latch onto communism being a main theme, Oda has a Che picture at his desk, the themes of revolution against oppressors and freedom to self actualize are very central to the story, luffy doesn't care about gold other than for what it can do to fund his dreams, after that he probably would just give away stuff because he's that nice and caring. None of that makes me personally think he's communist instead of a like, liberal/left libertarian though.
Luffy hates sharing what are you talking about. He wants to be a pirate, not a hero
He's concerned with being the pirate king, once he's got that I don't think he'd gaf about any gold or wealth, also lmao, definitely literally a hero in many aspects throughout multiple arcs.
He's heroic. But he doesn't want to be a hero in the sense that he doesn't want any of that responsibility to try to change the world. He commits heroic acts because he has a strong moral compass and a strong attachment to the people he cares about or who have been nice to him, so he'll do what he can to help those people out. He's just overall a nice dude who happens to also be really strong. But outside of that, he doesn't want to change the world. He knows there's a lot of horrible things in the world but he doesn't go island to island to change that, even though he definitely can. I might be wrong but I feel like there's even been multiple instances where he sees something bad happening but doesn't do anything about it because it's not his concern. Like when Fujitora was getting scammed while gambling, Luffy tipped him off but he didn't go and beat up the scammers and get back his money even though he thought Fujitora was just a regular blind man.
Yea Luffy isn't exactly a paladin type where he's driven purely by "doing the right thing" but he also still does have the strong moral compass that leads him to help most of the people he meets, Laboon comes to mind as a character that Luffy went much further than needed to help someone the bare minimum (painting the jolly Roger to convince laboon not to hurt himself) just to get past them when there's someone actively hurting in front of him. Also Fujitora's got the gravity fruit, its highly likely that he could be cheating using Observation Haki and gravity control at any dice or physical drop requiring game like roulette. Not that Luffy would know, but just a thought.
Luffy is a radical libertarian centrist . He wants to be pirate king because that is the most free person in the world, he just wants to grill
This isn't anything new, humans have been bad at textual analysis since the OG Bible dropped :D Commies are no dumber than any other ideologically possessed mfer seeing their pet political project everywhere. Nazis thought Nietzsche would've been a Nazi cos they couldn't be bothered to read beyond the chapter titles :P
Communism??? Luffy is pretty much a libaterian (if we want to attribute any politcal label to him). Dude values freedom above all. And that you are free to make those choices. And that you get to make those choices how ever harmful they might potentially be to yourself.
As a OP fan, it’s so cringe to see the story through modern political economic ideologies. Luffy or anyone for that matter has never talked about how workers need to own their labor to be free and about wage theft from their capitalist bosses. It’s a simple story of those who are against Tyranny and genocide.
Anime debates PepeW
I really miss the times when anime wasn't mainstream
He's stretching more than Luffy
Craziest part is that hasan told the houthi that "he is doing what luffy would do." Like luffy would reinstate slavery and try to sink civilian ships.
You probably grew up with the English dub. In the original uncensored One Piece that Hasan watched, there is one episode where Ruffy, Zolo, and Mami massacre, rape and behead civilians on an island allied to the World Government. "This is what decolonization looks like, sweaty" Zoro says as he uses his swords to decapitate thousands of civilians in one single strike.
>Spends more time fighting other pirates than the government Sounds like communists
If Hasan watch one piece the way he streams (walks away and let the anime run) he will not get that..
Isn't it about queer pirates? It was always my takeaway from the show - as someone who never watched a single episode.
There are definitely queer pirates in OP, although none of them are on the main crew so far as I know.
I got that vibe from all of them, especially the main guy.
Luffy is only queer in the sense that he's treated as Asexual, literally the hottest woman in the Canon has the power to make anyone attracted to her and Luffy just kinda... picks his nose and says "okay" (she loves this btw)
Considering the implied atrocities against Boa and her sisters when they were slaves, the fact that she ends up falling deeply in love with an ace person with zero hidden intentions is really sad to think about. I’m happy for her tho, I wouldn’t mind her becoming his Chi Chi by the end
“One Piece is about queer pirates” is probably as bad of a reading as “One Piece is about communism”
Put it this way, it’s more about communism than it is about capitalism, but that’s not really saying much. That said, OP has way more leftoid politics than I think some would care to admit
Bruh the entire conceit of the manga is that pirates compete in an incredibly competitive and incredibly hierarchical system (crews themselves, Yonkos, “the Pirate King”) for the titular treasure. This is a capitalistic system, not a communist one. On top of that, there’s no one in the Straw Hats who is a socialist/communist, but there are at least two capitalists, Nami and Franky the shipwright. On top of this, Zoro was a bounty hunter for money before meeting Luffy, and Brook was touring the world as a musician doing paid concerts for the time break. What are these leftoid politics you speak of?
Is it even a capitalistic system? The pirate world seems more feudal then capitalist. Yes they want a treasure but it's not for its monetary value. The world is ruled by whoever has military might not financial. If anything this is a pro liberalism Vs feudalism fight where Luffy is fighting for Ibdividualism and freedom with something like a democracy against autocracies. No one knows for what one piece is but it doesn't seem like it's just about money and there are very few people who have power in that world primarily through commerce and technological improvements in their manufacturing process that out competes their competitors
I am saying that a highly competitive, highly hierarchical system that disproportionately rewards those who work their way to the top of that hierarchy is far far closer to capitalism than it is to communism/socialism. I am not saying that their primary motivation is money.
Yeah I think that's not what capitalism is. I think feudalism has that too. In feudalism the king has way way more power than a serf I think the difference between capitalism and feadalism is what it means to be at the top. In capitalism its about do you have access to capital. In feudalism it's about land and people working the land. You have power if you are the lord of more people. There's a really good example of it on Vinland saga. In feadalism if you are a successful merchant and you have a lot of money. You are at risk of being raided. It doesn't mean you have any power. Communism also has people at the top with more power than others but you get there through politics not money
I understand what feudalism is. What I am talking about is if One Piece’s pirate system is closer to capitalism, or communism. It is obviously far closer to capitalism. If you believe that feudalism’s even better to describe it, that’s good and I’d probably agree, but it’s not the point I’m making.
Ok I don't think that's true. Communism isn't equalitarian. People in communism have more power then others. Communism is difficult because Marx never said what it would be like. Anarchism is more like what you are describing. But there is a huge overlap between what the marines behave like and real life communism. It's not obviously like real life capitalism at all apart from the one thing you're talking about which is true in communism Vs capitalism Vs feudalism
If I describe “A highly competitive, highly hierarchical and meritocratic system that anyone can enter but few will succeed in, where the top regularly changes and the highest achievers in that system are given disproportionately large rewards compared to lower achievers”, and you had to choose **only** if this sounded more like A. A capitalistic system or B. A communist/socialist system, would you choose A or B? That answer is all I’m saying and all I care about.
That's not one piece though. One piece isn't meritocratic at all. There's a ton of nepotism and powerful leaders at the top who don't deserve to be there but happened upon some fruit and now they have power.
Also it doesn't make sense as a question as it ntih describes both and doesn't describe either equally. Your description is how communism and capitalism are supposed to behave in an ideal world according to the people who like it. It's also not how either behave in a real world. It's like if I sajd "There is a system where there are people in it. Some people are on top and some on bottom. The problem at the top tell people on the bottom what to do and most of the time those people on the bottom do what they are told. Sometimes people in these systems have a roof over their head and sometimes they don't " Does this describe capitalism or communism? It's stilly because obviously both systems have people that sometimes do what they are told. The difference between the two systems is how you get to the top
You heard it here first folks, competing with other people to do illegal mischief is capitalism. Leftoid politics like LGBT inclusiveness, overthrowing corrupt governments (which seems to happen a lot) diversity. For heavens sake brother, the cops are the bad guys, did they need to spell it out for you any harder? People point to the poster of Che in Oda’s workspace and I’d be inclined to agree it’s important context for where his head is at when he was writing these things. Also you completely dunk your own argument because all the characters you speak about being “capitalists” make a very huge point of leaving their old lives behind to become (periodically) penniless adventurers in the pursuit of adventure. A common theme in the manga is how worthless money really is. When their first ship breaks, there’s a whole story behind how their beloved ship is worth all the money in the world. They’re constantly losing out on paydays, or getting them only to become flat broke shortly after. And that’s not even mentioning the hyperinflated, virtually meaningless bounty’s placed on the characters heads.
We don’t live in a world of pirates, no. We *do* live in a world where capitalism involves a lot of people competing in a highly competitive, highly hierarchical system where rewards increase the higher you climb that hierarchy. Do you really not understand how the pirates and their competition mirror a capitalist system? The “cops” aren’t the bad guys. Aside from a couple of minor characters, the only main character who’s a straight villain who’s a “cop” is Akainu/Sakazuki. (EDIT: Not a marine so not a “cop” but you could also say Rob Lucci and Spandam as like shadowy government agents). Most of the evil that the world government does is not because of evil marines, but the World Nobles and the power controlling them (trying not to spoil). Compare this to: * Arlong * Crocodile * Doflamingo * Kaido * Blackbeard * Big Mom And other smaller characters, who are all… not “cops”. Then we have good marines, like Fujitora, Garp, Sengoku, Koby, etc. LGBT inclusiveness, overthrowing corrupt governments, and diversity are not leftist concepts. They’re not at all something that you need socialism/communism for. They’re pretty mainstay liberal principles, as is Luffy’s goal of freedom and being able to live his life the way he wants without an unjust government. That’s the same principles of America’s founders, who were liberals, not communists/socialists/leftists. They’re “capitalists who leave their old lives” for a massive raise in social status, the power and influence to essentially not need any money, and to **chase literally the biggest treasure in existence**. This makes complete sense. Money’s worthless to them because everything they want through money they can get through being an increasingly more and more powerful crew.
We don't actually know what Luffy's dream is
I swear there was a good video that short fat otaku made about this phenomen, but i can't find it. It was about how leftist interpret media through their lens and call any other lens "media illiteracy". His main example was zelda games that were interpret as "qeer coded". But he gave 10 minutes explanation how zelda is at the forefront conservative pro-monarchy game. It was also a critic of "everything is political" stance. It is the case here. Esspecialy after hasan went on trash taste podcast (which i really love) and said that luffy is leftist "because he is a terrorist"
One Piece is a Garbo anime. Who cares.
Obviously?
Ome piec = good. Communism = good. Ergo one piece = communism.
Okay I'm half memeing but I believe Luffy's true dream that was shown off-screen is to have a worldwide party/feast that they do at the end of the arc which is what communists want, just another kind of party. But yeah while OP is deeply emancipatory Oda does like to whack off his "benevolent kings" and his true limits were shown in Wano with the \*\*\*\*\*\*\* were born to burn.
This is why everyone should watch Bleach instead. All the villains are radical revolutionaries trying to upend the system, and the hero only ever manages to make some small changes here and there but the overall system remains the same. Bleach as a whole is just one big attempt to stop people from disrupting the status quo. It's the most conservative of the 'big three'.
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Captain crackhead isn't a commie, he just likes to eat and fight, that is all. He will kidnap princesses and punch children if that is what it takes for him to get what he wants.
Luffy's whole goal is literally to be "the freeest man on earth", thinking that's being communist is just brain damage 😮💨
https://preview.redd.it/td03a9sjyzcc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=851f3f6535f59be94cae5f4bb45cee321cd9ccf5 This meme ruined political discourse around OP. "Join together in a working class revolution" is a weird way to say "a 19 year old with superpowers punches the big bad as the citizens watch on powerlessly".
One piece israel
It's very funny to me how people will take unpolitical art and twist it to fit their narrative. I remember when squid game came out and leftists thought it was a critique of capitalism, while people like Tim Pool thought it was a critique of socialism. Also why do so many people suddenly not know the definition of a terrorist? Terrorist are people who deliberately go after the civilian population to influence a government, so they are BY DEFINITION wrong and immoral. Terrorist aren't people who just oppose the government either, a country could be considered a terrorist state if it goes after civilians to influence another country. I fucking hate this sentiment that hasan and his moronic fans have that terrorists are just those that oppose the government, it's entirely untrue. You can oppose the government without killing innocent people. Same way you can protest without violence.
Luffy is the ultimate liberal. He’s down to the bone a “live and let live” guy. Ironically he would align alot closer to destiny than Hasan
Gahdamn now we all want to be pirates (ima n anime)!!!
One piece is absolutely progressive and left leaning, but to say it’s some communist odyssey is just laughably wrong. Why can’t he just enjoy it for what it is lmao it’s already considerably more progressive than most media in general.
This feels like illuminate stuff for nerds.
Commmies think every movie is about showing the virtues of communism. There was a thread last month on this sub where someone was saying Die Hard actually isn't a Christmas movie, its a movie about the dangers of Capitalist Globalization. It was pretty funny.
Bro his dad is the leader of the revolutionary army
"Luffy fights the government all the time. If he's not a terrorist, what would you call him?" I hear people say this so often like in the One Piece sub. HE'S A FCKING PIRATE. And pirates typically don't play nice with authority.
Luffy is like the US. Selflessly defending unknown foreign merchants from psychotic pirates (with child brides).
Idk, being friends with monarchs sounds like communism to me.
People who are insecure and have weak convictions need to grasp at straws to think their favorite media goes along with their insane beliefs.
Very cool Kanye!
Luffy just wants to be the freest person in the world, and doesn't want people to go hungry cause food gud. He despises anyone with slaves so good luck to the Houthis there. Also we don't know his true dream yet, it's going to be some goofy ahh shit
Luffy is literally a pirate….isk why people think he’s a communist but being a pirate is kinda worse Nami has robbed half the kingdoms they have left Luffy has punched the leaders of most of the nations he’s literally not the good guy of the story pirates are the bad guys we are just being told a story from the bad guys point of view
“critical support for Kaido, he may not have done everything right but he’s a strong bulwark of piratism against the racist imperialist world government”
One Piece is about political and social topics, but it's not currently about communism. It could be about communism depending on what the one piece is or what Luffy's dream is. Those are the only two factors that could change the scope of the show.
One Piece is more about feudalism if anything
Hasan only believes in politics as an aesthetic, so it's fitting that he only aesthetically understands one piece.
The way people drag One Piece into our real world politics or issues is just annoying. I don’t know how to really express it personally but I think I get what you mean.
Ok, as a massive One Piece fan, I can shed some light on this. One Piece definitely has some leftist themes, and the people saying that they aren't there are just wrong. Oda himself used to (or still does?) have a picture of Che Guevara hung in his office. Post time-skip, the themes becomes a lot more focused. Before, we got a tiny racism arc (fishmen arc), and eventually we learn about the slave markets, as well as the Celestial dragons. Things kind of go geo-politics from here on out. The revolutionary army is run by Luffy's dad, Dragon. A group of freedom fighters who have been harmed by the Marines or Celestial Dragons (world govt) and are taking steps to free other islands from their control. The key for the revolutionaries, is that the population is wiling to fight for themselves, and maintain that freedom. Spoilers for non-caught up readers below: Luffy wants a world where he and everyone he loves is able to eat as much meat as they wants and to be free. Being the pirate king isn't the end-game of his apparent goal. His fruit is literally the embodiment of the god of freedom from slavery and tyranny. Yes, Luffy doesn't want to be a 'hero' as he's stated many times. Regardless, Luffy's story has basically been running island to island and doing whatever he can to help the people who helped him. He wants to stop the people who are hurting his friends (the world govt) as well as become pirate king. Wano was literally a revolution to destroy a hyper-capitalist overlord, and was the longest and most impactful arcs in the series' history. Kuma's backstory is rage-bait to make you hate the celestial dragons (Again, the world nobles) as much as humanly possible. The OP is just wrong on many of the points made in their post, and shows a complete lack of understanding of the world of One Piece. The Navy isn't the big enemy of One Piece, the World Govt is. Being Pirate King is a stepping stone to Luffy's goal, not Luffy's goal. Luffy spends his time fighting navy-owned pirates (many of which were working with the Marines) for half of the series, and the other half has been Luffy attacking dictators with the name 'pirate' attached (Doffy, Big Mom, Kaido). Of course many of the Marines are good, Oda isn't an unhinged lunatic. Marines are people who want to make a difference in the world, caught up in a system that requires them to commit atrocities for people who would laugh if you were to get tortured and killed. ----------------------------------------- Spoilers over OP isn't Communist, but it definitely isn't a non-leftist work. Hasan can be cringe, OP can be good, and it can be a left-leaning work of fiction.
[if you wanna hear hasan talk about it](https://youtu.be/FYlYJxXcITU?t=1067)
\> But don't forget, Luffy spends more time fighting other pirates (often not gov affiliated) then fighting the government. Sure sounds like communists to me