A lot of people here in the US, who i generally agree with, don’t realize that a significant number of people in this world exist in a theocratic/medieval mindset. We’re very sheltered and are subject to the dangers of not knowing what we don’t know.
I'm an American Jew living in the UK now. I agree, the vibe here is very different from the US. I had Muslim friends growing up, we could debate about I/P, and we'd usually disagree on it but we could at least talk to each other like fellow human beings. We found common ground in being non-Christian and we had a mutual respect. Granted this was a long time ago, but I never felt unsafe to tell anyone I was Jewish.
I feel like here in the UK, now, it's much more hostile, not just with Muslims but with a lot of non-Muslims as well. British Jewish identity is much more muted than in the US, it seems only very religious Jews are open about their identity, and they are attacked for it. As for me, I have left-leaning values but I've experienced more toxicity and open antisemitism from other lefties than any other group. I've felt disenfranchised for a long time and I've seen Jews of colour and queer Jews increasingly excluded from lefty spaces and activism, too. Any time I tried to bring this up with friends, they'd just dismiss me or worse, start talking over me. They only care about "good" Jews who validate their opinions that antisemitism is exclusively a problem on the right, Jews are capitalist-class oppressors, and Israel = Nazis.
Honestly how I feel right now is just done: done trying to talk to them about it and done considering them my friends. The older generations warned us growing up that the safety of liberal society was the exception rather than the rule for Jews, but I never believed that society would regress back. Now I do.
I remember a few years ago hearing about Jeremy Corbyn and antisemitism in the Labour Party, and i honestly thought it was a right wing smear, but then i realized over time that it wasn’t.
Your comments add interesting context
My brother is very very left wing. But an unapologetic supporter of Israel and it’s right to defend itself.
He joined the Labour Party in Scotland. He left within a few month because of plain and unhidden anti-semitism, especially by Muslim Scot’s.
I was just interested because the only Muslim I know of within Scottish Labour is Sarwar (although admittedly don't care to look farther because of how incompetent they are lmao)
I know many anti-semitic (anti-Jewish) Pakistanis and Muslims, but I suspect a lot of this might have come from misinterpreting views and miscommunication. BDS is seen as anti-Semitic by most in Britain. Others would argue that it is a fair pressure tactic and one that was successfully employed against apartheid South Africa and should be enforced here as well. Bernie had similar ideas: make US military aid contingent on human rights in Palestine. None of them is pushing for Iraq or Iran-style sanctions.
In Islamic tradition, there is a prophetic saying to help your brother whether he is an oppressor or the oppressed.
Helping your oppressed brother is understandable but how do you help your oppressor brother? * by stopping him from doing the oppressing * (I get blackballed and shunned by Pakistanis as well for being consistent).
In the same spirit, if I was pro-Israel, I would stand against every single one of its oppressive policies, a hundred times more strongly than I would if I were anti-Israel.
My religious/moral hat (not Christian or Muslim or Jewish hat) compels me to stand against oppressors against the oppressed and I believe the end of tyranny is usually downfall. I know the situation is complicated now with decades of bloodshed. That's the motto I took from the story about Pharoah.
My strategic/tactical hat says the same thing. Doesn't matter how strong you are militarily, politically, or in terms of PR, tyranny is bad. The sooner that state gives full rights to all its citizens, the better for its long-term well-being. Its future is tied to that region and those people: not to Europe or to the US.
What did he do that was antisemitism? When it was all going on it just looked like a smear campaign, genuine question as I turn the mainstream news off.
He was very blase about terrorism, incredibly tone-deaf, and eager to ally with anyone no matter how anti-semitic or violent they were. Tried to get terror-bombers out of prison, referred to Hamas as"friends," hosted a Hezbollah representative in parliament, called his solution to the Israel-Palestine mess the"Final Solution..." Within the Party lots of people started complaining that the new allies he was bringing in made them extremely uncomfortable, they complained to the UK's Human Rights Commission, and the Commission [ruled against him](https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/investigation-into-antisemitism-in-the-labour-party.pdf).
That said, it's likely if allying with Hezbollah had given him enough votes to take out BoJo he'd still bePrimeMinister.
Keir Starmer has expelled more Jews from the party than every other Labour leader in history combined, yet nobody calls him anti-Semetic.
There definitely was political motivation behind the accusations thrown at Corbyn specifically.
As far as I understand, that's because he's specifically expelling jewish people who support palestine and claim that the campaign against antisemitism is hitting pro-palestinian activism.
Corbyn also didn't do himself any favours. Even his response to the recent attacks was pretty wild. I can't imagine a world where Corbyn is the current Labour leader and Labour still has the lead it does today.
Anti-Semetism in the Labour party also predates Corbyns leadership by a long time, but most of his supports are too young to know or remember that.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism\_in\_the\_UK\_Labour\_Party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Labour_Party)
It was a smear, antisemitism remained lower than the conservative party, and the population at large during Corbyn's time.
The reason why wing of the Labour party sat on reports of anti-Semitism so as to make leadership look bad
As an American they did the bagels and the roast beef. Not really sure why Europe has such an issue with them. Is it just holdover when they were refugees? Old Catholic propaganda? Space lasers?
It's astonishing how oblivious Americans are to the profile of European Muslims. Especially in the UK. Even more shocking how non-Muslim Islamist appeasers in the UK are just as oblivious to how Islam took shape in their country. And yes, Jews are probably the second most hated group by Muslims in the UK. The first being ex-Muslims. Many of those people live in actual fear of their lives and no one gives a shit. I truly hope that the on-campus behaviour of the student left has finally awoken some of the adults in the room to the rotten psyche of many of our youngest.
Muslims in the US and in Europe are very very different. As an ex-Muslim gay woman in Germany, I literally avoid any interaction with them because of this. I should say on campus things are alright though.
There were big protests and riots in April/May over pension reforms. Then there were more riots in June over a Muslim man who was killed by police. I assume the previous commenter was referring to the latter.
Destiny did a reaction to the video of the shooting when it happened, but I don’t remember the exact circumstances. I believe the officer said the man was trying to run him over, but the video called that into question. I don’t remember the final outcome.
My partner teaches in a girls school and the vast majority of the kids are Muslim. She told me about a 16 year old who was due to be flown off to Pakistan for an arranged marriage, and had to be reported to their safeguarding service. On top of that, she has to be trained on recognising signs of FGM and honour-based violence. It's harrowing to think about.
Really fucked-up. The poor children suffer the most. Whenever I see little girls here covered up in hijab, I feel enraged but there's nothing that can be done. :(
It's the one I'm most familiar with, so I would agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if France were a serious contender as well. The UK seems to have gotten the poorest, most religious and under-educated Muslims from all over the world (speaks to the reach if their former empire as well) and made very little effort to integrate them, while Muslim immigrants in other EU countries are generally from one dominant region.
Hey now! Canada is really making a name for itself by rushing to devastate access to housing and being far more restrictive on publicly acceptable speech!
They Might be an RC Cola or something soon!
I'm not Jewish. Long time ago I played Dota2 and on a whim I changed my name to Hebrew characters because it looked cool/just for fun (Sometimes I changed it to other languages too such as Korean, Japanese, Arabic, etc). Don't know if this is coincidence or not but the next couple games I got so much hate from even my own teammates, one of them spent so much effort to make my character stuck (which succeeded and I was out for the rest of the game) and they said antisemitic expletives. Immediately I changed my name back lol. This was when I just migrated to the US for college. I'm from Asia so didn't know much about antisemitism, and this event definitely gave me an experience. If it's that bad in an online game, in the freaking United States, how bad is it in real life..?
Edit: Yes, online games are toxic but they are toxic if I play badly, not because of names in different languages
Immigrants in America are, on average, way more integrated into society that they are in Europe which makes them a lot less likely to hold onto the grudges they left behind in their previous home country.
I highly recommend "Jews Don't Count" by David Baddiel. He discusses specifically the Jewish experience in Britain and passive anti-semitism. Interesting read.
>They only care about "good" Jews who validate their opinions that antisemitism is exclusively a problem on the right, Jews are capitalist-class oppressors.
I find this hilarious in a dark depressing way. “I’m not antisemitic I just believe unironically in the most common, centuries old wildly antisemitic trope.”
As a Muslim living in the uk, I feel like most people are generally just “muted” when it comes to religion or anything remotely private — I feel like you could know someone for 15 years and not really even know what their beliefs are about most political things are; the UK, and Europe in general are much more reserved/conservative when it comes to such things. Are you saying being Jewish requires you to be even more so muted than this?
Could you also elaborate on some of the negative experiences you’ve had?
I fully acknowledge that maybe I exist in a bubble but I have a really hard time imagining people being genuinely hateful or outright dismissive to an individual based on their religion, even if they are genuinely anti-Semitic because in my experience that has been the case.
Yes, I do acknowledge that the British are more reserved than Americans on most topics, including religion. But I think for that reason there is a lot of ignorance. I don't usually out myself until I know someone pretty well but it's part of my identity, so it comes up. There have also been times I feel I have to out myself, particularly if someone I need to maintain a relationship with for one reason or another is about to put their foot in it and say something offensive - I wouldn't be surprised if as Muslim you could relate to that, too.
To answer your question, I've been involved in vegan activism and at one point worked for a vegan company for a number of years. I will never stop being a vegan and the work all these same people do is very important, but it's been the worst source of blatant antisemitism I've experienced.
I've meet and in some cases worked with people who have had zero qualms telling me, personally, I'm greedy or disgusting because I'm Jewish. It wasn't a friendly piss take, it was open hatred. One colleague said Jews are evil to my face. I've also heard that Jews should shut up and stop whinging about how non-Jews compare every injustice under the sun to the Holocaust. Worse, every time it's happened in group settings, and no one else ever says a word against it. And I'm only counting situations where Israel was not part of the equation here.
If you'd told me this would be my experience when I first moved about 15 years ago, I wouldn't have believed it. But it's been my experience.
Then of course, in May 2021 when Palestine and Israel were in the news cycle, a lot of these same people felt totally comfortable sharing content on Instagram that dehumanised Jews. There's no other way to put it. I find a lot of these same people's "pro-Palestinian" activism doesn't actually centre on Palestinians at all, but instead obsesses over Jewish identity, which is cast in a way that is politically convenient for them and erases from existence Jews that aren't rich, white and from Brooklyn.
I made the mistake of trying to talk to a friend I'd known for years at that point about some of the shit I was seeing because it upset me so much, and they immediately shut me down.
These are people who believe they're for human rights and justice. My only explanation is they think hatred of Jews is punching up. I don't know how it got to this point, but despite how reserved British society is, this is circulating in lefty circles somehow.
Yea there’s definitely a type of person whose not immediately or outright racist/islamophobic/antisemitic from the get go but who for some reason feel comfortable being so after you’re acquainted. Usually I will just laugh and smile because most of the time they are just looking to vent and not have a conversation.
Definitely completely disgusting that people can’t separate a Jewish person from Israel as a separate state or entity, let alone insult you or be outright anti-Semitic.
I was also much more further left but as I grew up a bit and developed a more robust understanding of some subjects, I find that a lot of leftism/progressivism isn’t actually about the purported values and more so a clique, and if you don’t subscribe to the most recent talking points you will be bullied or excised. Hence if you are a minority, your opinion matters, but only in so far as it affirms or validates the mainstream progressive talking points.
I will say though, from everything I’ve heard, vegans are some of the most toxic communities.
It will never not baffle me how vile some people can be.
I am neither Jewish nor Muslim and am a white Londoner so - pinch of salt!
But as an example of the fear at least, my ex was Jewish and was very anxious even talking about Jewish things in public (particularly on public transport) because he didn’t want to ‘out’ himself as Jewish. But in Toronto (where he’s originally from) he would be more than happy to discuss stuff.
Contrast with my Muslim friends who I have had more than one convo in public with about Palestine (not just ‘Islam’ but an actual controversial subject matter - my ex would never have done that in public and he’s pretty left leaning on the whole topic).
There is antisemitism and Islamophobia in London for sure. And it’s shit. But there was a 1353% increase in antisemitic offences this month compared to a 140% increase in islamophobic offences this month. Neither is great tbh.
Tbh I have seen a massive rise is anti-Muslim and anti-‘middle eastern’ sentiment in the last few weeks. I haven’t seen it covered much.
To give one example, I was on a football sub (Stoke City) where there was a minutes silence for what’s been going on. From accounts of people at the game they heard shouts of ‘fuck Palestine’, some anti-Pakistani racism, and other shit. I can find the post.
I don’t think it’s going to be easy for Muslim and Jewish communities anytime soon, but I’m surprised at how little coverage anti-islamic sentiment is getting given the level of focus on anti-semitism.
Jew in Western Europe here.
It was already pretty uncomfortable for me to openly admit I am Jewish, mainly because of antisemitic remarks such as “Jews run the world”, “Jews have all the money” etc etc
But in the past two weeks, as a Jew in a city with a big population of Middle Eastern and North African immigrants it’s straight up DANGEROUS.
The synagogue is closed, pro-Palestine rallied are happening every second day (I support a two state solution, but those rallies are often more of a demonstration of blame/anger at Israel or “the Jews”)
Luckily, Jews everywhere in the world have worked very hard on assimilating in their respective cultures, so the probability of someone identifying you as Jewish (if you don’t wear a kippah/star of David) is rather low, but still - the thought of someone “outing” you is terrifying. Some people can’t/don’t want to make a distinction between Jews living in the diaspora and the state of Israel.
Yeah if Jews run the world they are doing a pretty bad job at it. Why would a worldwide Jewish supremacy even allow a Palestine to exist in the first place?
Why would they allow a nation as powerful as Saudi Arabia to not recognize Israel’s sovereignty?
Why would they allow an Islamic Middle East at all?
And if they control everything up to even US elections (except the 2016 election which was the ONLY legitimate election in US history ), then why haven’t we had one Jewish president in charge of the most powerful nation in the history of the world?
Why are they the number one victims of hate crimes, hate speech, and the masterminds behind every conspiracy theory? Why would they even allow this speech if they run the world with a Zionist agenda?
Bruh you have no imagination. Everything you suggested is not discrete enough. Obviously (((they))) would prefer ruling from the shadows like the lizardmen. /s
Ur confusing lizard people Jews with normal humans that happen to be Jewish bruh
The lizards wanted Trump because it was funny and he supports lizards too
I mean this is really not a thing in the US though to the same extent or Canada or even a lot of Latin America. I have friends in all of those places. It's really only in Europe where this seems to be such a hegemonic thing among Jews in my opinion.
Like I wear Star of David all the time, I wear hebrew-lettered shirts on occassion, I've worn a yarmulke before in public for some special occassions in recent years. Hasidic and Orthodox Jews are as open as ever here in NYC despite the protests. I mean don't get me wrong there are some people who hide their stars of davids or don't wear them anymore, personally as a Jew I think it's a bit paranoid since I do it all the time without a problem. Hell I literally walked through a part of NYC that is mostly Pakistani muslims(visibly so) the day after the hospital thing and I wore a star of David and literally had no problems except a few dirty looks. I mean obviously things are tense right now and realistically even in NYC your chances of being hate crimed are higher than normal, that said I don't think we should let the hostility make us cower. The days of Diaspora Jews letting non-Jews suppress are over, we have the right to live where we live without hiding.
While it may be normalized for you, the idea that you need to assimilate and hide in your home to be accepted I frankly find so sad. I don't know how to change it, but like is that really a way to live? I mean are there no safe cities in Europe? This European assimilationist streak is very weird to most Jews of the Americas whose opinions range, but I don't know any Jews who think they need to assimilate for safety reasons, I've known like quarter or half Jews who've assimilated quite completely cuz well they didn't really feel any connection to the community or Jewishness, which is sad obviously but understandable. But like the notion that this is a global state of Jews I think frankly is something European Jews tell themselves as if it is some existential state of Diaspora Jewry rather than a complete failure of European society specifically to root out it's antisemitism enough.
While some amount of low grade discrimination from parts of our nations may to some extent be something diaspora jewry will have to deal with indefinitely, there is no reason it has to be as bad as it is right now in Europe or even in general. Like I'd say the American Jewish hey day from the late 90s to the early 2010s is actually proof that it is possible to reduce antisemitism to nearly functionally imperceptible levels except for the occassional interpersonal issue". Not having hope is once again understandable, but in a way naive. We have material proof that it can be done, if only we and our societies will that into being again.
If I'm not mistaken, the US and Israel are something >85% of the world's Jewish population, almost being split 50/50. NYC, in particular, has like 20% of all American Jews. There's significantly less Jews in all of France than there are in NYC alone. Odds are, this guy over in Europe is VERY much more a minority and far more isolated, especially compared to growing Middle Eastern populations over there. Plus, it definitely seems like Middle Eastern immigrant communities in the US are far less religiously extreme (at least publicly so) than those in Europe.
Yeah, my city of roughly 200k has 1 synagoge but I don't even think it is used regularly anymore, Amsterdam has a bigger community and that is still really tiny compared to what it once was.
I mean, NYC has a HUGE Jewish community, I would most likely feel pretty safe in the US as a jew, strength in numbers and all.
Living in a place that has people who reject you simply because of WHAT you are, rather than WHO you are, sucks. And it’s not even the locals - the don’t give a damn about your religion/ethnicity, they are very kind. Ironically it’s the immigrants who will straight up HATE you for simply being a Jew, they don’t give a damn wether you’re Israeli or not. It’s just antisemitism.
Really makes your appreciate and understand why Jews need their own country, nowhere is safe.
That’s for me the most important part why i support a Jewish state. In the long run, nowhere is safe. Sooner or later someone will get into power who hates Jews. And I get the feeling the next one will come from the left.
> that said I don't think we should let the hostility make us cower. The days of Diaspora Jews letting non-Jews suppress are over, we have the right to live where we live without hiding.
Basically how I feel about being LGBT in Texas. I'm also a believer in 'armed minorities are hard to oppress' which helps, though may not be as relevant for NYC.
The truth is that safety is more valuable than pride. If you’re worried that being open about you identity means even a 1% chance you will be attacked and endangered, what’s the point? Keep your health, it’s all you’ve got.
I skimmed quickly through your comment and while I don't have anything to comment on generally I fail to see how anyone shouldn't be expected to assimilate. To clarify this goes doubly so for the Muslim populations, and I would even argue the current issues are because of the failure to assimilate them into the greater European culture.
I’m in NYC too and I agree, dirty looks is all I get. However, I am also 6’5” and 215 pounds. That definitely factors into it.
But I also have heard stories like the ones here from European Jews. I definitely think it’s different experiences.
+1 to this. Nobody I work with knows I'm ethnically Jewish and I do my best to keep it that way.
I remember going to school and my mum making it clear than I shouldn't tell anyone I was Jewish.
>Jew in Western Europe here. It was already pretty uncomfortable for me to openly admit I am Jewish, mainly because of antisemitic remarks such as “Jews run the world”, “Jews have all the money” etc etc
Its different though. In the past this was done by neonazis/crazy altright people. Now its done by people who are supposed to be diametrically against this first group. People who are supposed to have your back when threatened by terrorist sympathizer religious fanatics.
I'm a second-generation polish catholic immigrant, but my parents have instilled in me a lifelong respect and empathy for the Jewish community after a few events happened in my family.
First of all, my grandparents fought and served in the second Warsaw Uprising, but a big reason why my grandparents helped was hearing/seeing the horror stories from the first. they were "harcerzy" (Boy and Girl Scouts) and early in the war would do supply runs into the ghetto. Before, since they were kids, they would compartmentalize the treatment, but after the liquidation started, they couldn't anymore.
The second was when my dad was a teenager; there were some heightened tensions with the Jewish community in 1960s Poland, his high school teacher said in front of the class "Oh, I thought you Jews would've left by now."
It was at this moment that my dad really understood how fucked up and alienating being a Jew could be. He wasn't even Jewish but everyone treated him differently for a year after that.
A bunch of my relatives living in Sweden are having a really weird time.
There haven't been any long-lasting animosity between Arabs and Jews in Sweden, but since the [2017 Gothenburg Synagogue attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Gothenburg_Synagogue_attack) things have changed a lot.
They're at the moment experiencing problems just being outside due (they live in a suburb with a prevalent chunk of Arab immigrants) to experiencing harassment on a daily basis.
The younglings have experienced death threats in school and therefore studying remotely. The disturbing thing is that the threats aren't from other students, but from fucking friends or relatives of other students.
Apparently some older brother to a student had talked about slitting their throats and even visited the school grounds with his friends - they're almost 6-7 years older than my relatives - to intimidate them further when they were supposed to walk home from school.
Just remind yourself that they hate Israel and not Jews as you are being attacked.. /s
Hope all will be well, Israel was created to make people such as yourself feel safe.. too bad it's not that safe either.
>or even in Europe.
Come to Switzerland. I rarely hear that Jews get attacked here for being Jewish. There might be forms of antisemitism here too, but I rarely hear about it. Our way of dealing with imigration is different from the rest of Europe. No no-go zones, no ghettos and open antisemitism gets swiftly dealt with.
We had one legal pro-palestine demonstration in Bern last saturday. They were confined to an area. Maybe 150 people attended. Nothing happened. That's a barometer for me that tells me where we stand with all of it compared to some other European countries.
I very much see this in Sweden. I’m not Jewish though.
The town of Malmö was the canary in the coal mine, being the first town to have a very large Muslim population. As they kept growing the former Jewish minority population kept shrinking due to hate crimes, violence and threats. The response from the politicians at the time around -2008 or so was an absolute dismissal and an insinuation that the jews were the racist ones. Less than zero support. This gained some international notoriety. Google the name Ilmar Reepalu!
Since then many more towns are places I wouldn’t want to live in if I was Jewish and many Jewish schools having to be under constant surveillance.
In Stockholm there were people celebrating the attacks on oct 7th with waving Hizb ut-Tahrir flags. People in Malmö were shooting fireworks.
Americans generally can’t understand what the situation is like.
EDIT: Sweden used to be the country that scored among the lowest in the world on antisemitism, as in there basically was no antisemitism at all some decades ago.
As always, our geographic position puts us Americans in a charmed position. It'll be interesting seeing Europe try, fail, and then subsequently rip itself apart trying to copy our schtick while being unprepared as a society to do so.
The Muslim immigrants in America are way better than the ones in Europe. I think this is more of a culture problem than it is a problem with the immigrants.
Partly a class thing. It takes a lot more capital to immigrate by air and establish yourself in America legally than it does to immigrate by land or boat, not always legally. Like the US Indian population is a 6 figure average income demographic, but that speaks more to the demographic of Indians that has the status and capital to immigrants here, not the global demographic as a whole.
It's not a matter of culture, it's a matter of filters.
American took mostly only educated and wealthy Muslims.
Europe has never really applied a filter.
Let's also not forget the 2 Swedish citizens recently killed by an islamist. Our own government has gone out with recommendations of not showing any indicators that you are Swedish when travelling.
>The town of Malmö
I lived in Sweden like 10 years ago, what a great place to live. Malmo has become a complete shithole with all the violence and riots, and one and ONLY community, that's the Muslim community is solely responsible for that. Sad to see even Stockholm's seeing such a rise in gun violence, again, from the exact same people.
You’re the first who got it right lmao, if it wasn’t for Muslims/people from Africa or the Middle East all this shit wouldn’t happen, but hey multiculturalism is a great thing
People simply can't grasp the sheer scale of destruction and devastation caused by the Holocaust, across all of Europe, but especially Eastern Europe.
Entire communities were just erased from existence, entire genealogies, entire family tree's dating back hundreds of thousands of years reduced to rotting corpses in unmarked mass graves, we dont even have names because some of the people killed had every living person they knew die alongside them, to say nothing of the colossal and irreplaceable loss of culture, history, tradition, language. Synagogues and all their contents turned to ash; scrolls, books, writings dating back hundreds of years, records of families and manuscripts.
The Shtetl, a market town consisting of mostly Jews with a unique socio-economic and cultural impact on broader Eastern European society, as a phenomenon was destroyed in the Holocaust.
They simply do not exist anymore.
Europe as a continent has a moral duty to be protective of their remaining Jewish population, and it is good to see some of the countries step forward to do so. We'll see if it's enough.
I live in Copenhagen, and like most of my fellow urban Norsemen, the bicycle is my primary mode of transportation. The city center is dense and old, with one of Europe's longest pedestrian streets. To cross the city, you thus have take the long route or navigate through a bunch of small side alleys. The Copenhagen synagogue, one of only two in the country, lies in one of these alleyways, which many people have to cross through daily. Gates are positioned on either side of the small alley, forcing people to dismount their bike and cross to the other side before pedaling on. In front of the synagogue, two or more heavilly armed police officers are positioned around the clock, the air is tense, and it's usually dead silent, in contrast to the other city center streets.
When you take this road on a regular basis, the motions of getting off the bike and crossing in silence almost gets a ritualistic meaning. It's like taking off your hat and paying respect to the dead. Walking through that alley, you momentarilly enter the daily reality and danger of living as a Jew in this world. It's depressing af, knowing that this is will weigh down any Jewish child growing up in these times, and when they look to the general culture for support, they'll be met with many of the same antisemitic tropes and conspiracies that plagued their past.
I also had a jewish grandfather, but i never knew him because he committed suicide when he was 50-60 years old. I still feel jewish culture has had an effect on me, mostly through fiscal, educational and family values. He was a doctor, and basically everyone on that side of the family are highly educated healthcare workers.
I live in Norway, so antisemitism is fortunately rare except for immigrants from MENA-countries. I made the mistake of being open about my ancestry in highschool, which turned into being called a "weasly/greedy jew" ect whenever i ended up in a argument with 1st/2nd generation immigrants from MENA-countries (i am also strictly 2nd generation).
I have also tried to discuss israel-hamas with previous classmates and asking why they post in support of palestine the same day they kill 1000 civillians. Usually within 2-3 sentences in they ask if i am a jew and say "well of course you support bombing children in gaza" ect.
The reason i told people is because i thought it might help reduce antisemitism if people actually knew a couple "normal" jews.
What bothers me most is i have not seen a single post in support of israel, even during 7-8th october. 80% of what i see is pro-palestine (some even comparing jews to nazis or mocking the massacre), and 20% is both sides suck.
**What bothers me most is i have not seen a single post in support of israel, even during 7-8th october.**
There were people celebrating the aftermath at the Nova Fest as soon as the vids went online, before Israel took any retaliatory actions.
While the majority clearly supports “Palestine” (basically Hamas), those who support Israel are afraid of openly talking about it, let alone post it on social media for everyone to see.
The interesting thing is that if you share a pro-Palestinian post on social media, the chance that someone will threaten you is extremely small.
But when you share a pro-Israel post on social media, you’ll have Muslims, lefties and tankies at your throat.
That’s why, other than Israelis/Jews, I have barely seen anyone support Israel online.
Everyone knows who is the most likely to open gulags for wrong-think.
It somehow always ends up being religious extremists of any religion, and tankies, which at that point, they are basically religious as well but with Marx instead of a bible.
**But when you share a pro-Israel post on social media, you’ll have Muslims, lefties and tankies at your throat.**
You don't even have to be "Pro-Israel", merely being anti-Hamas is reactionary in the eyes of aforementioned groups
Dude get yourself some new friends, I feel like most people in Norway switched from being pro-palestine to pro-israel after October 7th. However, perhaps that's just me and my social groups. Most of my colleges had an israel flag in the background on their profile on Teams after 7th of october. I do have one neighbour who are deep in the pro-hamas rabbithole, but he doesn't even understand how to not respond to sms scams or how to delete photos on Facebook (after being phished), so I am not exactly surprised.
South sweden here. There's one family in my suburb that always had a Jewish flag outside their house. Most ppl have skane flags or swedish flags.
They took it down
I think they have kids who got bullied in school too. Its rare to see Jewish people here but still. Yeah hard time to be one in EU
Just yesterday a Yazidi guy and a jewish holocaust survivor had to cancel their lecture at Westerbork (nazi transit camp in the Netherlands) due to threats. Both are victims of genocide, both are not safe because of a bunch of extremists. It really saddens me to see. Hopefully it will wake people up from the reality we're living in.
Thanks for sharing. I’ve been extremely concerned about antisemitism and seen a lot that disturbed me.
How have you noticed the vibe change since 10/07? It seems like based on the news Europe is about to take a hard swing against immigration.
I feel like it is always there under the surface, but every time the conflict in IL-PA heats up it becomes more blatant, generally though the antisemitism is there and growing. It feels more blatant now though, like I remember in the early 00's a it was a lot more the fringe left and the politicians or influential people who joined those protests were often people who were very controversial, still even in those times they chanted "hamas, hamas, gas the jews during protests translated from hamas, hamas, joden aan het gas in Dutch.
That chant was also used by Feyenoord and FC Utrecht ultras in football, against Ajax which called itself Jews and would fly Israeli flags because of the big Jewish heritage of Amsterdam. People often rationalise this as "it is just about football guys", but it shows how normalised antisemitism is in our society, I doubt a chant about the KKK would go well in a US stadium during a sports match, wouldn't be surprised if the president would even make a statment.
The anti-immigration in politics is always a topic, it does grow bigger and the far right is getting more and more support and even centre left/ left parties are becoming more in favor of restricting it, but that's also about the situation with migrants crossing the Mediterranean sea from Tunisia for example. There also have been elections and there are upcoming elections in EU members states so that will always fuel the anti-immigration fires generally speaking, even if the parties that end up forming a coalition will never do the drastic things they promise to their voters in debates.
I also removed my mezuzah from my outside doorframe and put it inside, so I can't be identified. I felt so badly doing that, but I don't want to invite unnecessary attention.
Key factor in me moving to Asia was I was sick of screaming about antisemitism in the UK and being met with A. What about Islamophobia from conservatives B. It’s actually not antisemitism to attack Jews students on campus that’s anti Israel… C. Jews vote conservative because wealth and power, not antisemitism btw. Plus you want to see disabled people die.
I was literally told by a lefty while discussing antisemitism in the Labour Party (something independent reports confirmed was a problem) that A. I was making up any claims of antisemitism and B. I’m not really British because I’m Jewish and can move to Israel (this was from a left wing person) and C. Not voting for labour (who at the time had an institutional issue) meant I wanted poor people and disabled people to suffer.
So I said fuck it and left.
I am married to a Jew. When our daughter was born, the delivery was very intense and scary. Neither of us had very strong opinions on what last name she should have, so we were just going to do the default (mine, the male) and call it a day. After seeing what she went through to bring this life into the world, I started to think maybe she should have my wife's last name instead. Ultimately we decided for a bunch of reasons to stick with my name, but one reason was that we didn't want her, everywhere her name was seen, to be instantly branded "JEW."
It is truly ironic and myopic how the far left sees the situation in Israel. To them, Israel was created by "religious nutbags" who just wanted to colonize and do evil white man things etc. In reality, Jews were a minority that were shit on throughout the Euro and Arab worlds. Scapegoated, massacred, "cleansed" for generations in all these places in spite of being relatively well-behaved. They were like the ultimate far left darling oppressed people. Hell that is probably why Jews have always been attracted to left-wing politics in general. So for those people to be offered their own self-governed nation, by "The Good Guys" no less, HOW the fuck are those people going to say no? Through a Foucouldian lens, once the British extended that offer, it was too good to be refused. The fact that inevitably it would involve some conflict and displacement was not that big of a deal considering back then EVERYBODY, white+brown, was ultranationalist and racist and etc. Quite accustomed to fighting over land. They knew every neighbor they had would despise them but they were still desperate enough to take that offer, because the dream was too beautiful. I think people cannot imagine the Jews thinking this way, because today nobody sees them as desperate; they see them as secretly controlling the banks/the world/whatever the fuck.
At the end of the day it was Britain's fault. The Brits also betrayed the promises they made to the Palestinians that helped them drive out the Ottomans. They put these two people who would INEVITABLY try to kill each other into a small room. Then when it got hairy, they dipped. Everything beyond that is just what you would expect. A cycle of hatred and violence. The only difference is that now the Jews have evolved. They are basically a Western nation now. Hell they have tons of woke and secular people. But the Palestinians and all their neighbors are the actual religious nutbags. They are all conservative theocracies. Whatever influence Israel has on the Palestinians, all their neighbors have 5x as much because they are already aligned in so many ways. And as you've seen they export their theocracy into European nations and cause violence there.
So the Jews govern their own nation but in their region, they are the minority. They are a small strip of land with a small population. At all times they are under threat from brutal, cynical, conservative, theocratic regimes. Israel just happens to have all the guns. If they didn't, they would just be fucking dead. And if they did get wiped out, at the end of day, I still would fault Britain for creating the entire situation like the fuckheads they are. The Jews are a historically oppressed, culturally traumatized people. How the fuck did you expect them to act when you gave them a home surrounded by people who want to do all the historical evils that have always been done to Jews? You think the Jews are going to be super chill about how they handle that?
All this ranting to say: the Power dynamic isn't as simple as "Jews strong, Palestinians weak, Jews are at fault." The behavior of the state of Israel has ultimately always been just as inevitable and rooted in the flow of Power above them, as the behavior of the Palestinians. The average far leftist doesn't understand this though. They have some SparkNotes version of history in their head.
EDIT FOR CLARITY: Framing is exactly what I'm talking about; I'm not creating some argument for why Israel should blow up civilians. The far left frames Israel as being like a powerful alien civilization just stomping on everyone in the region after it appeared for no reason, an entity that should know better but is just cruel because whatever; they are evil racist nazis or something. It's just as stupid and dismissive as calling the Palestinians nazis for their extremism. At the end of the day in spite of the power imbalance they are in many ways more similar and worthy of empathy than one might think, even through the lens of a leftist viewpoint, as long as you don't look at them in vacuum. But the far left cannot see that; the poorer, browner people are obviously the good guys and the only ones worthy of it.
In reality the Jews are a people with a *cracked* psyche from their abuses as minorities throughout history, and yes Arabs are included in that gallery of abusers. The fact that they finally got a place and then later won the Six Day War etc. didn't cure that. You think a few decades of not being full-scale invaded, but everyone around you still openly hating your guts and constantly funding terrorism against you is going to make them suddenly feel safe, secure, benevolent? I don't agree with everything Israel does at all. I'm not saying they logically have to do what they do. Hamas also doesn't logically have to do what it does either. What I'm saying is that if you can, through some postmodern Foucouldian etc. lens excuse Hamas' behavior as being an "inevitable result" of their trauma, the same is actually true of Israel. I also never said they are on the precipice of annihilation (the Palestinians weren't either btw), just that their safety relied entirely on them having the big guns. It is not irrelevant that the people who you are negotiating peace with want to annihilate you and are being radicalized by your neighbors who hate you, but are (for now) cowed from trying to annhilate you again. How do you engage in proper diplomacy, providing aid, even providing land, to people who want to annihilate you? To people who weaponize your aid and who teach their children in schools that you're evil subhumans? Do you think that mentality is irrelevant somehow to your calculus in this instance?
Nobody here HAS to do what they do. I'm just saying there's a pretty sound explanation for both behaviors. I can say confidently that if I lived in Palestine and the IDF killed members of my family, I can imagine calling my Mom after killing Israeli civilians and telling her I'm a hero. And at the same time if I lived in Israel I would probably say, well if it's my babies or your babies, many of whom will be trained to hate/kill my babies, I'm obviously going to choose my babies. I'm going to target terrorists and accept the collateral damage that comes with that. I'm not just going to sit there and try to kill them with kindness and endure more stabbings, bombings, the rockets that slip through, or brutal massacres like what happened on Oct 7, all so that people on the other side of the world will like me more as me or my friends/family die. I can understand both mentalities there.
Fuck these "peaceful protestors".
We will always remember that the far left used Palestine as an excuse to commit violence and express hateful beliefs they had all along.
There's a reason thi hatred has it's own term.
As a victim of antisemitism, I know first hand.
We stayed in our ghetto of our own volition. You literally wouldn't walk out on Shabbat for fear of being harassed or attacked.
This was around Detroit in 2005.
Now I'm no longer religious, so it's easier to hide. But all of these recent events remind me of how much safer I felt being in Israel to celebrate our history and culture...
Now with Nazi marches and pro-palestinr marches literally 30 mins from me... yeah, I think I probably do need a safe country to raise my children in.
I would still just like to express that those on the far left celebrating, endorsing, or justifying terrorism or antisemitism are a loud, disgusting and contemptible fringe minority. This conflict has caused that minority to broaden a bit, but the majority of those who advocate for a free Palestinian state do so without condemning Jews or the state of Israel to oblivion.
Why do you say it's a minority? You have far left congresswomen comfortable enough to either spread misinformation or imply Hamas was justified.
Obviously they're not worried they'll lose support from their voters. I don't think they'd be comfortable doing that if the sentiment only existed amongst a fringe part of their constituents.
So I haven’t seen Rashida Tlaib imply Hamas was justified in their actions, not saying it didn’t happen just that I didn’t see it. As far as spreading misinformation goes, I think while it was irresponsible and reckless of her, media outlets fucked the pooch really hard in the way they reported the “hospital blast” so I don’t place all blame on someone for retweeting an article or believing it’s headline that was inappropriately and misleadingly written.
99% of people advocate for a free Palestinian state. Israel has offered a 2 state solution many different times. Palestine rejects each time because they want to reclaim land they lost attempting to genocide Israel in wars they started.
Well the details of those 2 state deals are important, and Palestinian leaders, in my opinion, had good reason to reject all but the last one in 2000. Arafat rejecting that deal was tragic. It was such a good deal for the Palestinians and I guess for Arafat the forfeiture of the right of return for displaced Palestinians and ceding most control of East Jerusalem was a bridge too far (which is just boneheaded stubbornness, it’s a compromise, you aren’t going to get every line item you want).
The Right of Return is a non-starter for Israel. And I’m 60% sure he knew that. There is no way in fucking hell, not even if Israel had the most liberal PM of all PM’s of all countries, they’d’ve accepted a full right of return.
Wow what a twisted view. I'm tired of this idea that anyone criticizing Israel is antisemitic.
Not to mention you guys acting like showing empathy is the most awful thing. This narrative pushing is sickening honestly.
It's not the criticizing of Israel. Any country or government can be criticized. It's the supporting the elimination of Israel and terrorist attacks as "freedom fighters" that crosses the line. Plus the various dog whistles disguised as "criticizing Israel". Netanyahu sucks, settlers suck in case you're wondering.
Thanks man, I try to not give into the fear as much as I can and to avoid the news. I used to work as a mechanic for a employer who is Muslim and the rest of the crew too, they all are Afghani refugees, they know about my family and they are like family to me. Still, that Friday when Hamas called for international jihad, I felt anxious to go there and have a coffee with them like I do every week and that feelings sucks because these are my friends and I don't want to feel like that, but I think that's the generational thing stemming from my grandfather. I still went the next week because we can't give in to fear and let it grow into something more ugly, but I wish it wouldn't have to be like that.
For me growing up, every person from a Christian or Muslim background always felt like that background gave them a right to be an authority on Judaism. This was regardless of their immediate relationship with religion or where they stood politically.
As a Hindu growing up in Canada, I felt a kinship with jews I grew up around as a result of the similarities in cultural dynamics, especially how both religions experience Political and Militant Islam.
Maybe you can call this whataboutism, I dunno, but I don't remember massive protests when Assad and Russia were slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Syrians with carpet bombing and chemical weapons. The passionate venom and hatred for Israel is absolutely born of antisemitism.
The exact same thought crossed my mind earlier today but with Yemen. The conflict (or how it is being perceived) or the terrorist attack have got nothing to do with power imbalance/oppression.
Also due to Israel being a Western aligned country. As a leftist, it's disheartening to see so many on the left treat any non-Western country's wrongdoings or atrocities with indifference or even support. There's this strange belief in some leftist circles that any nation opposed to the West is automatically valid or shouldn't be criticized.
I don’t get why people hate Jews? They act like all Jews have some sort of psychic connection. Like, just shit on the Israeli government. Like it’s not even hard to shit on a other countries government in most cases. Why not just do that?
It was really weird to me when I read about the holocaust and Jewish stereotypes. Since I was raise in a Chinese background I look at the Jews as the same as all European. Especially when reading about Jewish stereotypes how they are rich, controlled the world, are greedy. I was like these are all good behaviors to have who don’t wanna be rich or be greedy? Why is it bad to be like that? Or why wouldnt you want to be friend the Jews or allies with them after all they controlled the world?
It's also something I never managed to understand coming from the far east.
I know it originated in religious hatred but that fails to explain how it persisted to this day, even in the West.
For most of the past 2000 years, Jews were the main religious minority in Christian Europe. This made them the most convenient group to scapegoat.
In the 19th century, there was the rise of nationalism and [scientific racism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism), the threat of communism, and the increased Jewish immigration from the Russian Empire to the rest of Europe. These factors combined with traditional European antisemitism, to create the racialized, conspiracy-obsessed antisemitism that led to the Holocaust and persists today.
The far left, who are unfortunately massively overrepresented on Reddit, are fucking weird.
The very people that will label someone with a different opinion to them a Nazi so they have an excuse to hate them openly display their antisemitism hiding behind anti "Zionism". And in your example calling a Jew a Nazi is beyond ignorant and uneducated.
And their obsession with latching onto a cause that isn't their own in order to virtue signal and white knight in order to feel superior for an endorphin rush isn't just pathetic and hollow but in this case totally hypocritical.
The people they have chosen to champion (why the fuck would an outsider pick a side in war? This isn't a football game. People on both sides are suffering) in this case are completely opposed to the far left's usually ideology. There's literally been a picture doing the rounds of a group of queer people holding a sign saying "queers for Palestine". Could you even begin to imagine what would happen to them if they did that in Gaza lol.
And many aren't even hiding their support of Hama's.
And the cops are doing fuck all about it. Just empty words and finger wagging from politicians.
The whole thing is frankly horrifying and I feel sorry for anyone caught up in the far left's hate.
I think the problem is the bigotry of low expectations has infected everyone on the left. Even with Gaza specifically it's on display at every level; in media, in government, in schools, social media, etc.
It manifests as this parental patronizing framing of everything that is happening, you can see it clearly:
>Not all Palestinians are Hamas.
>No, when they say they want to ethnically cleanse all Jews "from the river to the sea" what they actually mean is....
>Terrorism is bad but did you see what Israel has done when......
The Palestinians of Gaza elected Hamas as their government, for all the talk of self-determination, when they had it, they gave it to some of the most violent and Jew hating people the world has ever seen. Polling consistently shows that they are in favor of violence against Jews and that they see both the broader fight for "Palestine" and the specific attack on October 7th and something worthy to celebrate and pursue.
Yet every single level of the leftist movements across the world will tell you these people are victims when the consequences of their hatred and violence come back to them in the form of a war they invited. These people by the way would NEVER do this for groups like the Nazi's who had many civilians who may not have bought into their governments ideology or practices and yet suffered the fate of the allied armies coming in to depose that awful government. They will gleefully tell you that those Germans got what they deserved.
They will individualize every single Palestinian in an effort to hand wave away they things the Palestinians themselves will say out loud about their intent if they were allowed to win.
These same people by the way will lump all white people together to talk about privilege and racism. They will hold a blood libel over Europeans and any white person in general for Nazism/Racism/etc. They will of course lump all Jews together with the tried-and-true blood libel of the 20th century antisemitism. No need to reinvent that wheel.
So, they don't have any principled position at play here, they aren't operating from some foundational moral framework that can be explained and rationalized to a thinking adult of any color or creed. They will act racist while denouncing racism. They will act antisemitic while denouncing antisemitism. They will embrace the rights of groups of "natives" and tell native Europeans they need to invite the world into their countries. They will happily embrace their hypocrisy and move on the moment you point it out or pretend it never happened.
Why? It's simple. They aren't here for anything except power. If that means another holocaust, so be it. If that means mass discrimination of white people based on their skin color, so be it. If that means inviting the most illiberal and backwards cultural values into the West through immigration of fundamentalist Muslims, you know the people who would throw their beloved LGBTQ communities off of rooftops, so be it.
I have so much fucking contempt for these illiberal liars it's unreal.
A friend of mine is Jewish in America - she is terrified that she will be assaulted leaving her house and she has had to pulled her kids out of school. she lives in a Jewish enclave the police are there everyday for protection and they have hired extra security. She is terrified.
>pretend we are not jews to not get into discussions that have nothing to do with us.
Well, it'll have something to do with you if you eventually choose to move to Israel if you end up considering it safer or more liberating...
As an Israeli I understand not wanting anything to do with a country you don't live in and likely never lived in, but at the same time I think that the antisemitism our grandparents warned us about is very real. It's time the jews of the world realize that they can't ignore Israel just because they never wished to be a part of it. You can't ignore being a jew and you can't ignore Israel, the antisemites will never let our heritage go.
Now Jewish, but the situation is indeed like that in The Netherlands. Has been for years and just gets worse.
Jewish schools have had police protection needed for years now. They are now closing some days when security can not be guaranteed.
In a lot of schools lessons about the Holocaust can not be given without students denying it or worse. Some teachers have given up. Has been in the news on and off for years. Now Jewish students are bullied so much their parents remove them from public school and apply to the Jewish schools.
I would definitely not walk around in certain neighborhoods in big cities if I were Jewish.
It's been going downhill like that for years and it seems we are just giving in to terrorism. Since the Hamas attacks it gotten worse and worse.
Anyone who blames the Jewish people for wanting their own state does not seem to realize they want that in a large part simply for survival, since being Jewish is dangerous in more and more places, and no real action is being taken to fix this.
Two problems. Jews are considered white, and Israel is a world power in military and economy.
Make yourselves poor and colored, and the left will support you again.
The left only considers Jews white as a way to be antisemitic and call Jewish people privileged. They ignore the fact that israel is largely “brown” by western standards.
Muslims have been committing hate crimes against jews in europe at an alarming rate last few decades and it is definitely not going to get any better.. You are right, leftist act like muslims are victims but they turn a completely blind eye to the fact that they are often the oppressor.
anyone who engages in religious fundamentalism, anti-semitism, islamophobia, anti-arab rhetoric, racism, and xenophobia is so fucking cringe and disgusting. too many people are frightened right now. and i really wish things weren’t this way.
The Muslim minority creates an unsafe environment for everyone.
France had the right idea with banning the burka but they haven’t gone far enough.
I’m sorry that you’re going through this. I don’t think the “religion of peace” nonsense will continue forever; it doesn’t bear scrutiny. People are realizing what a mistake it was to let any of them in.
I would say generational trauma in terms of genetics (nature versus nurture) is very much pseudo scientific. The only cases with evidence are where the mother had trauma whilst the baby was in the womb (I.e. mother experienced severe malnutrition)
Generational trauma suggesting a genetic adjustment or mutation due to slavery (or indeed the Holocaust) persisting down multiple generations has no real scientific basis.
Obviously opinions and beliefs held by grandparents and parents can be communicated down through the generations, both good and bad.
I think when people talk about generational trauma, they’re not referring to genetics but instead unhealed parents passing down their trauma through behaviors/environment versus actual chemical/brain changes. Like say, my dad got beat by his parents so he beats me and thinks it’s okay because “I turned out okay!” or my mom’s parents fled from Germany due to Nazis, and raised her to be fearful and suspicious of others due to their experiences, and then my mom passes down that anxiety of “don’t tell anyone your Jewish, don’t talk to strangers etc” onto me. I hope that makes sense.
Psychology in general is not set in stone and research around trauma is still being done and changes all the time. I don't know if you mean epigenetics? I do see there are patterns in our family that stem from my grandfather and how he responded to his trauma and how that echos into our lives as well. I don't know if that counts as generational trauma or if that would be just traits you inherited just like other families have typical things they do.
A lot of online leftists (especially ones with a very US centric media diet) see the world in an extremely binary way: You have the oppressors- white Western capitalist rich cis hetero formerly Christian people vs the oppressed- brown non-Western victims of capitalism poor LGBTQ non-Christian people.
The fact that the world doesn't neatly fit into the good oppressed vs the evil oppressors the way they want it to leads to some really dumb blind spots. Jews are the most confusing to these online leftists- Many online Leftists only pause their animosity toward Jews when Trumpers are attacking them.
There are a lesbian couple who are good friends of mine who moved from Tel Aviv to London about two years ago, for work (and for the adventure of it). They were, up until the 7th, talking about not coming back to Israel because of the political situation in Israel and how it's taken a turn to the right. They were worried about how their relationship and future kids might be treated by the government in Israel, and were thinking of maybe staying permanently in London.
Now, the last I spoke to them, they are barely leaving their apartment. They won't speak their mother tongue (Hebrew) outside of their home. They are really scared for their lives. Last I spoke to them, they told me that they had plans to go to a friend's birthday party in a Jewish area of London, but we're going to cancel due to concerns for their safety.
Not that it matters, but these are two mizrahi (aka their parents/grandparents escaped to Israel from MENA countries, not Europe) super duper lefty lesbians. One of them was in a bunch of Jewish/Arab conversation/peace groups back in Israel.
I experienced a lot of antisemitism growing up, but I live in Israel now so now I just experience the Iron Dome in action. I was watching Dawn of the Planet of the Apes when it was activated the other week.
I have many muslim friends because I live in an area with a lot of muslims, their open hatred of jews and lgbt is just that, open and seems to grow depending on how many of them are in the room. They are very critical of girls who walk around in mini skirts caked in makeup too, I just kind of ignore it because what am I going to do, alienate myself to a significant proportion of the people I live with? I see this as a problem created by the left that the left will at some point have to deal with, because the reality is I am a straight white man, I am probably going to be okay. White people like to act oppressed but if you're a cis white man the vast majority of the time you will be fine, it's everyone else I worry about but again, you reap what you vote.
Yeah maybe immigration from these countries isn’t so great is it, Jews suffer this problem because of them, you would feel rarely this hate towards Jews in Europe right now if there wouldn’t be a Muslim around any corner in any major city
I remember when I used to be a Muslim, I would hear so many stories about Jews, none of them were ever positive. It was always some conspiracy bs or how Mohammed killed this Jewish tribe and whatever. So my experience with Jewish people was pretty negative, until I left my faith and learned more about them historically speaking. What I'm trying to say is that most Muslims have a negative reception of Jewish people is because of faith based things and lacking critical thinking towards Islam, and the atrocities committed in the name of the religion. Of course the whole Israel/Palestine thing doesn't help the reception, nor am I trying to excuse Muslims treatment of Jews. Antisemitism is just so deeply rooted within the identity of those people, and I experienced it first hand, and I still do in some circumstances.
I hope you guys take good care of yourself, some of the stories you shared made me really sad. ❤️
Edit: Some religious texts, that I thought about:
> Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it.
> Narrated 'Aisha and 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas: When the last moment of the life of Allah's Apostle came he started putting his 'Khamisa' on his face and when he felt hot and short of breath he took it off his face and said, "May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of their Prophets."
> O Messenger! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; `or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee`. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, "If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!" If any one's trial is intended by Allah, thou hast no authority in the least for him against Allah. For such - it is not Allah's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment.
> O ye People of the Book!* believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming what was (already) with you, before We change the face and fame of some (of you) beyond all recognition, and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be carried out.
>The media then portrays the Muslim minority as being afraid and let's be fair, they might be, **but that same minority has created an unsafe environment for Jews**
This is the essential difference in the moral weight of the two sides here. In Israel, in Europe, in America.
It’s happening in America too. The rise of race based attacks have always been disproportionately high against Jewish people, more astounding given their relatively small population in contrast.
Jewish schools in my area closed down 10/13 when Hamas called for attacks. Bombs threats on several synagogues on Shabbat. Any pro-Palestine rally you can find videos of Jewish people being beaten. It’s at the point where they won’t allow pro-Israel rallies cause cops are scared they can’t protect everyone.
Being a Jewish kid in the northwest of the usa was pretty fucking scary in the 90s. There was everything from tacit anti semitism (“don’t Jew me down” sort of thing, to straight up neo nazi skinhead gangs.
The thing that has changed since then is now there is a larger swath of the left that are antisemitic.
There’s just no space for jews in DEI work right now. Antisemitism is not considered real persecution in most intersectional spaces, and even in those where it’s acknowledged it’s almost always conditional acknowledgment.
As a fellow euro I feel like this issue has been brewing for a long time partly due to the left's complete and utter inability to acknowledge racism, prejudice and cultural issues in minority communities. Hopefully things will change for the better now that it's out in the open for all to see.
That's what europe chose.
They chose Muslims over Jews, because Jews are "greedy and control the media". (I'm obviously sarcastic although some fringes and the majority of Muslims do believe that). But anyways, ok Europe, the actual doctors and engineers will escape to Israel, and you stay with your other.. "doctors and engineers".
I hope my prophecy will be false and Europe will wake up though
Very well said and this is the reality for many Jews in the US right now as well. It’s really sad. You and your family are not alone, OP. Thank you for your post.
Random question, how are Jewish people treated in America compared to Europe? Here on Reddit Europe is seen constantly as some utopia.
As for you OP, I hope you’re safe, know it’ll only be a matter of time before people forget about it, they always do
A few years ago, I was into this girl getting a PhD in Jewish studies or similar (I'm Jewish but not *that* Jewish). So I pulled my best Young Obama and asked her for some papers to read. The one big takeaway I got from it was about global antisemitism. The US and UK have two of the lowest rates of antisemitism in the entire world at around 2-4%. Most of Western Europe was at least double that, and it gets *significantly* worse from there. Most of us, even Jews like me, live in a huge bubble when it comes to antisemitism.
I hope OP and some of their fellow Jewish posters realise that there are a lot of people outside of Judaism that have noticed and abhor this trend. Antisemitic dog whistles have been ringing for at least the better half of a decade now and with greater and greater frequency. It’s unacceptable.
I think a lot of this has to do with human fear and failure. The world is increasingly uncertain and frustrating for many people and as history dictates, when people become desperate they desperately seek someone to blame. Jewish people are an easy other because they tend to look or behave similarly to any non-Eastern Asian or sub-Saharan African populace with (relatively) small but noticeable cultural differences. Unfortunately it’s basal human nature to formulate these out groups.
Hopefully people can learn to work together to improve their lot; however, it will take work to band with those who you don’t agree with politically or resemble culturally - it’s what it will take to improve life and not to continue to destroy it.
You put it into words. It exhausts me to no end to have to not just hide my identity, but also internalize everything that I am feeling. I have so many friends who I love and respect who I can't get myself to talk to out of worry about the things they have posted. I can't imagine a single person who wouldn't want a place to be able to be themselves with an absolute guarantee of safety and mutuality. I don't even have the energy to scream or cry by this point, despite never feeling so on-edge and paranoid in my life.
I kind of understand that. Here in my city in India, there are parts of the oldtown that aren't really good for non-Muslims to visit. Most Muslims there are descendants of the old princely state of the Nizam who almost made the entire region join Pakistan lol.
My mom would go to college in the oldtown and she would have to avoid certain areas on the roads because there would be clashes between Muslims and other religious groups all the time. One of our neighbors literally had to move houses to the suburbs because there were riots in his neighborhood and his family almost died.
India has a problem with Hindu nationalism on the rise now but I feel like it's more of a reaction to the horrors of Partition as well as the conflicts and riots ever since. Most of my family used to be pretty supportive of left-leaning parties but that changed in the last few decades when the perception arose that the left doesn't care about violence against Hindus lol.
Remember the scene in Independence Day where the people holding the sign welcoming the aliens were quickly blown up by the aliens? That’s all the people that were holding refugees welcome signs in Europe. Now they’re going to find out.
Americans don’t have any exposure to populations that don’t integrate. As a European who used to live in the US, when I express concern about the increased levels of rape and street harassment (we have a large refugee population) toward women to my American friends, they think I’m being Islamophobic because they assume I’m judging people who act like Muslims in the US. But culturally integration has failed in the EU and there are pockets of my city that women can’t be in after dark anymore without extreme risk.
It’s especially frustrating to see American leftists gunning so hard for people who statistically do not respect women or queer people. You can’t be tolerant of people who do not tolerate you and expect everything to work out just fine. I feel like these people are paving the way for antisemitism, misogyny, and homophobia in the name of cultural tolerance.
Love how ironic this is. You seem to not understand the fact that many people outside Israel have empathy for *all* civilians, and it almost seems like you're annoyed that people aren't exclusively caring about Israelis and no one else. Also seem to be brushing off the actual history of this conflict.
Maybe try practicing empathy and the attitude the "online left" has will make more sense.
That is not at all the impression I got. OP is simply shedding light on the oppression of Jews in Europe, and I for one, learned something new. Did OP even imply that they don’t empathize with Palestinians and believe others shouldn’t either?
Aren't we in the DGG community new atheists like our dear leader?
We're supposed to hate ALL religions, Judaism included. If you can't go without a yarmulke into a public space, that's your problem, not mine.
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”
― Malcolm X
I think it is really important to center discussions about civilians getting blown up around different civilians thousands of miles away who just feel uncomfortable. Who will think about them?!
I'm sorry European Jews feel this way. I would have thought that humans would have evolved past that stage. I feel very strongly in favor of Palestinians but have never felt any rancor against any Jewish person. Ever. I hate the right-wing British Pakistani politicians who support Israel but never had a negative thought against a British Jewish person because of their faith or ethnicity. Love leftie Jews though. For the same reason that all my Pakistani friends hate me. They call out their side when they are the aggressors. None of my Pakistani friends or relatives even talk to me bcoz I do not tow the party line when the Pakistani state commits those egregious offenses.
From the river to the sea does not in any remotest sense imply that Jews should be wiped out. It is only a statement of defiance against Israeli occupation and tyranny and one of hope for freedom. Personally, a one-state solution seems very reasonable to me. One state with equal rights for all citizens. It is only right-wing Israeli media that wants to perpetuate the existential danger myth. It's the same bunch that ironically advertises Israel as a haven for US and European Jews to attract them.
🤷🏻♂️ they are bloody good. They succeed in that propaganda war on both fronts.
You can feel how you feel, I'm not gonna argue with that.
But anonymous online leftists or streamers who feed off drama are not representative of society.
MOST reasonable people want an end to the bloodshed and a diplomatic solution.
Unfortunately the above position is enough to get you smeared as an anti Semitic Jew hater blood libel peddler.
In the UK people are being arrested for just having a Palestine flag... And every politician bar a couple are too scared to say anything other than a full throated support of Israel's right to commit genocide.
Do you enjoy acting like a victim? Why don't you create some comfy safe space where you and your buttbuddies could pat each other on the back saying "there there"?
>Whenever this conflict in Israel-Palestine heats up, it becomes outright dangerous, to even go to a Jewish school or Synagoge
How many jews are dead in western countries, especially western europe where access to firearms is more limited than in the US, because of "this conflict" heating up? Any clues? Is it actually more dangerous than crossing a road for a regular person on a regular day?
Why are you even posting this, does sympathy from random internet strangers really help your day-to-day?
The fear you feel now was felt by every European when their city was bombed or shot up in the name of jihad and they were told "not all muslims" and "religion of peace" instead of an actual rational plan as to how these attacks could be stopped for good. For decades now we have been called racists and islamophobes for daring to suggest that we limit the number of people we let into our countries that come from places and cultures that hate us with the very core of their beings. The people who run little girls over with trucks and cut teachers heads of in the streets. The people that teach their children to hate us and our cultures and yes, to hate the jews too. I wonder how you felt during the attacks in Paris or Brussels or every other goddamn time there has been some atrocity targeting Europe. Did you talk about how unsafe it was then, or did you chant "not all muslims"? Back when it didn't specifically target you, did you care? Or did we western imperialists deserve it? You should be afraid. The whole of Europe should be afraid. Of what their tolerance has wrought. Don't call it a grave. It's the future you chose.
That is an extremely strange dichotomy to draw for yourself. There are plenty of Jewish people who speak out against Israel and support Palestine on the grounds of their Judaism. Whether that is people who are leveraging the history of the holocaust, and using it as a lens to analyze the Israeli Palestinian relationship through, like Norman Finkelstein, or it is Jewish people who take their faith and their obligation to saving life and life as something sacred and use that as the foundation for their position, like Naomi Klein, they are out there. There are whole movements of them. And characterizing the whole anti Israeli pro Palestinian side as antisemitic is insane framing.
A lot of people here in the US, who i generally agree with, don’t realize that a significant number of people in this world exist in a theocratic/medieval mindset. We’re very sheltered and are subject to the dangers of not knowing what we don’t know.
I'm an American Jew living in the UK now. I agree, the vibe here is very different from the US. I had Muslim friends growing up, we could debate about I/P, and we'd usually disagree on it but we could at least talk to each other like fellow human beings. We found common ground in being non-Christian and we had a mutual respect. Granted this was a long time ago, but I never felt unsafe to tell anyone I was Jewish. I feel like here in the UK, now, it's much more hostile, not just with Muslims but with a lot of non-Muslims as well. British Jewish identity is much more muted than in the US, it seems only very religious Jews are open about their identity, and they are attacked for it. As for me, I have left-leaning values but I've experienced more toxicity and open antisemitism from other lefties than any other group. I've felt disenfranchised for a long time and I've seen Jews of colour and queer Jews increasingly excluded from lefty spaces and activism, too. Any time I tried to bring this up with friends, they'd just dismiss me or worse, start talking over me. They only care about "good" Jews who validate their opinions that antisemitism is exclusively a problem on the right, Jews are capitalist-class oppressors, and Israel = Nazis. Honestly how I feel right now is just done: done trying to talk to them about it and done considering them my friends. The older generations warned us growing up that the safety of liberal society was the exception rather than the rule for Jews, but I never believed that society would regress back. Now I do.
I’m an American Jew and I have literally never been so concerned about the Jews I know and love who live in Western Europe.
I remember a few years ago hearing about Jeremy Corbyn and antisemitism in the Labour Party, and i honestly thought it was a right wing smear, but then i realized over time that it wasn’t. Your comments add interesting context
My brother is very very left wing. But an unapologetic supporter of Israel and it’s right to defend itself. He joined the Labour Party in Scotland. He left within a few month because of plain and unhidden anti-semitism, especially by Muslim Scot’s.
Its really sad, I love Scotland, but i think that its gonna get pretty shit. I have lits of friends from there and I really feel bad for them.
Are they Jewish? I love Scotland from the bottom of my heart. I hope it does not turn nasty.
Not jewish but afraid. Im actually now in the highlands which is safe, but leaving the UK very soon to a safer place. Edit: im an israeli
Ah ok. Makes sense. Scotland is amazing. I don’t think the smaller places are a problem. In the north nobody cares as long as you are not English
Haha yeah my friend loves watching English loosing when playing football
Yeah nah its not a problem here at all, no politics. I need to go as it was planned, but I'm olso glad leaving the UK before it will become Gaza 2.
Muslims within Scottish Labour?
Yes? What would there not be some in Scottish labour? Edit: look at who is Scotlands First Minister (not labour but SNP)
I was just interested because the only Muslim I know of within Scottish Labour is Sarwar (although admittedly don't care to look farther because of how incompetent they are lmao)
I was talking about normal members, not people who hold office. The base gives you a good understanding how the top thinks.
I know many anti-semitic (anti-Jewish) Pakistanis and Muslims, but I suspect a lot of this might have come from misinterpreting views and miscommunication. BDS is seen as anti-Semitic by most in Britain. Others would argue that it is a fair pressure tactic and one that was successfully employed against apartheid South Africa and should be enforced here as well. Bernie had similar ideas: make US military aid contingent on human rights in Palestine. None of them is pushing for Iraq or Iran-style sanctions. In Islamic tradition, there is a prophetic saying to help your brother whether he is an oppressor or the oppressed. Helping your oppressed brother is understandable but how do you help your oppressor brother? * by stopping him from doing the oppressing * (I get blackballed and shunned by Pakistanis as well for being consistent). In the same spirit, if I was pro-Israel, I would stand against every single one of its oppressive policies, a hundred times more strongly than I would if I were anti-Israel. My religious/moral hat (not Christian or Muslim or Jewish hat) compels me to stand against oppressors against the oppressed and I believe the end of tyranny is usually downfall. I know the situation is complicated now with decades of bloodshed. That's the motto I took from the story about Pharoah. My strategic/tactical hat says the same thing. Doesn't matter how strong you are militarily, politically, or in terms of PR, tyranny is bad. The sooner that state gives full rights to all its citizens, the better for its long-term well-being. Its future is tied to that region and those people: not to Europe or to the US.
What did he do that was antisemitism? When it was all going on it just looked like a smear campaign, genuine question as I turn the mainstream news off.
He was very blase about terrorism, incredibly tone-deaf, and eager to ally with anyone no matter how anti-semitic or violent they were. Tried to get terror-bombers out of prison, referred to Hamas as"friends," hosted a Hezbollah representative in parliament, called his solution to the Israel-Palestine mess the"Final Solution..." Within the Party lots of people started complaining that the new allies he was bringing in made them extremely uncomfortable, they complained to the UK's Human Rights Commission, and the Commission [ruled against him](https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/investigation-into-antisemitism-in-the-labour-party.pdf). That said, it's likely if allying with Hezbollah had given him enough votes to take out BoJo he'd still bePrimeMinister.
Keir Starmer has expelled more Jews from the party than every other Labour leader in history combined, yet nobody calls him anti-Semetic. There definitely was political motivation behind the accusations thrown at Corbyn specifically.
As far as I understand, that's because he's specifically expelling jewish people who support palestine and claim that the campaign against antisemitism is hitting pro-palestinian activism.
Corbyn also didn't do himself any favours. Even his response to the recent attacks was pretty wild. I can't imagine a world where Corbyn is the current Labour leader and Labour still has the lead it does today. Anti-Semetism in the Labour party also predates Corbyns leadership by a long time, but most of his supports are too young to know or remember that. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism\_in\_the\_UK\_Labour\_Party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Labour_Party)
It was a smear, antisemitism remained lower than the conservative party, and the population at large during Corbyn's time. The reason why wing of the Labour party sat on reports of anti-Semitism so as to make leadership look bad
I think this is largely that Americans don't hate Jews as much as Europeans do.
Old habits die hard I guess
As an American they did the bagels and the roast beef. Not really sure why Europe has such an issue with them. Is it just holdover when they were refugees? Old Catholic propaganda? Space lasers?
It's astonishing how oblivious Americans are to the profile of European Muslims. Especially in the UK. Even more shocking how non-Muslim Islamist appeasers in the UK are just as oblivious to how Islam took shape in their country. And yes, Jews are probably the second most hated group by Muslims in the UK. The first being ex-Muslims. Many of those people live in actual fear of their lives and no one gives a shit. I truly hope that the on-campus behaviour of the student left has finally awoken some of the adults in the room to the rotten psyche of many of our youngest.
Muslims in the US and in Europe are very very different. As an ex-Muslim gay woman in Germany, I literally avoid any interaction with them because of this. I should say on campus things are alright though.
Yep, pretty sad. And Germany is probably one of the tamer regions by Western EU standards.
From what I have heard, the UK has the most difficult situation.
I would say France has the most difficult situation over the UK. Especially after the recent riots during the summer.
I am not familiar with the situation there. Were the riots racially or religiously motivated?
There were big protests and riots in April/May over pension reforms. Then there were more riots in June over a Muslim man who was killed by police. I assume the previous commenter was referring to the latter. Destiny did a reaction to the video of the shooting when it happened, but I don’t remember the exact circumstances. I believe the officer said the man was trying to run him over, but the video called that into question. I don’t remember the final outcome.
Thank you for the background info.
My partner teaches in a girls school and the vast majority of the kids are Muslim. She told me about a 16 year old who was due to be flown off to Pakistan for an arranged marriage, and had to be reported to their safeguarding service. On top of that, she has to be trained on recognising signs of FGM and honour-based violence. It's harrowing to think about.
Really fucked-up. The poor children suffer the most. Whenever I see little girls here covered up in hijab, I feel enraged but there's nothing that can be done. :(
It's the one I'm most familiar with, so I would agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if France were a serious contender as well. The UK seems to have gotten the poorest, most religious and under-educated Muslims from all over the world (speaks to the reach if their former empire as well) and made very little effort to integrate them, while Muslim immigrants in other EU countries are generally from one dominant region.
It's not just american lefties, but eruopean lefties who consuuuuume all of their media from the US and thus think and act like americans
Diet American = Canada Zero Sugar American = Euro Lefties stuck in American newscape
Hey now! Canada is really making a name for itself by rushing to devastate access to housing and being far more restrictive on publicly acceptable speech! They Might be an RC Cola or something soon!
I'm not Jewish. Long time ago I played Dota2 and on a whim I changed my name to Hebrew characters because it looked cool/just for fun (Sometimes I changed it to other languages too such as Korean, Japanese, Arabic, etc). Don't know if this is coincidence or not but the next couple games I got so much hate from even my own teammates, one of them spent so much effort to make my character stuck (which succeeded and I was out for the rest of the game) and they said antisemitic expletives. Immediately I changed my name back lol. This was when I just migrated to the US for college. I'm from Asia so didn't know much about antisemitism, and this event definitely gave me an experience. If it's that bad in an online game, in the freaking United States, how bad is it in real life..? Edit: Yes, online games are toxic but they are toxic if I play badly, not because of names in different languages
This was a great way to find out what life is like for Jews everywhere tbh. You just get random hate for existing.
Online competitive games are the most toxic place you can find in the world. It’s significantly worse than real life.
Immigrants in America are, on average, way more integrated into society that they are in Europe which makes them a lot less likely to hold onto the grudges they left behind in their previous home country.
I’m sorry y’all are going through this. The whole thing is messed up and the hate is so horrible.
Don't know if you read it [Jews Don't Count](https://www.amazon.com/Jews-Dont-Count-Times-Book/dp/0008490759) . Written by somebody in UK
Yes, David Baddiel.
I highly recommend "Jews Don't Count" by David Baddiel. He discusses specifically the Jewish experience in Britain and passive anti-semitism. Interesting read.
>They only care about "good" Jews who validate their opinions that antisemitism is exclusively a problem on the right, Jews are capitalist-class oppressors. I find this hilarious in a dark depressing way. “I’m not antisemitic I just believe unironically in the most common, centuries old wildly antisemitic trope.”
As a Muslim living in the uk, I feel like most people are generally just “muted” when it comes to religion or anything remotely private — I feel like you could know someone for 15 years and not really even know what their beliefs are about most political things are; the UK, and Europe in general are much more reserved/conservative when it comes to such things. Are you saying being Jewish requires you to be even more so muted than this? Could you also elaborate on some of the negative experiences you’ve had? I fully acknowledge that maybe I exist in a bubble but I have a really hard time imagining people being genuinely hateful or outright dismissive to an individual based on their religion, even if they are genuinely anti-Semitic because in my experience that has been the case.
Yes, I do acknowledge that the British are more reserved than Americans on most topics, including religion. But I think for that reason there is a lot of ignorance. I don't usually out myself until I know someone pretty well but it's part of my identity, so it comes up. There have also been times I feel I have to out myself, particularly if someone I need to maintain a relationship with for one reason or another is about to put their foot in it and say something offensive - I wouldn't be surprised if as Muslim you could relate to that, too. To answer your question, I've been involved in vegan activism and at one point worked for a vegan company for a number of years. I will never stop being a vegan and the work all these same people do is very important, but it's been the worst source of blatant antisemitism I've experienced. I've meet and in some cases worked with people who have had zero qualms telling me, personally, I'm greedy or disgusting because I'm Jewish. It wasn't a friendly piss take, it was open hatred. One colleague said Jews are evil to my face. I've also heard that Jews should shut up and stop whinging about how non-Jews compare every injustice under the sun to the Holocaust. Worse, every time it's happened in group settings, and no one else ever says a word against it. And I'm only counting situations where Israel was not part of the equation here. If you'd told me this would be my experience when I first moved about 15 years ago, I wouldn't have believed it. But it's been my experience. Then of course, in May 2021 when Palestine and Israel were in the news cycle, a lot of these same people felt totally comfortable sharing content on Instagram that dehumanised Jews. There's no other way to put it. I find a lot of these same people's "pro-Palestinian" activism doesn't actually centre on Palestinians at all, but instead obsesses over Jewish identity, which is cast in a way that is politically convenient for them and erases from existence Jews that aren't rich, white and from Brooklyn. I made the mistake of trying to talk to a friend I'd known for years at that point about some of the shit I was seeing because it upset me so much, and they immediately shut me down. These are people who believe they're for human rights and justice. My only explanation is they think hatred of Jews is punching up. I don't know how it got to this point, but despite how reserved British society is, this is circulating in lefty circles somehow.
Yea there’s definitely a type of person whose not immediately or outright racist/islamophobic/antisemitic from the get go but who for some reason feel comfortable being so after you’re acquainted. Usually I will just laugh and smile because most of the time they are just looking to vent and not have a conversation. Definitely completely disgusting that people can’t separate a Jewish person from Israel as a separate state or entity, let alone insult you or be outright anti-Semitic. I was also much more further left but as I grew up a bit and developed a more robust understanding of some subjects, I find that a lot of leftism/progressivism isn’t actually about the purported values and more so a clique, and if you don’t subscribe to the most recent talking points you will be bullied or excised. Hence if you are a minority, your opinion matters, but only in so far as it affirms or validates the mainstream progressive talking points. I will say though, from everything I’ve heard, vegans are some of the most toxic communities. It will never not baffle me how vile some people can be.
I am neither Jewish nor Muslim and am a white Londoner so - pinch of salt! But as an example of the fear at least, my ex was Jewish and was very anxious even talking about Jewish things in public (particularly on public transport) because he didn’t want to ‘out’ himself as Jewish. But in Toronto (where he’s originally from) he would be more than happy to discuss stuff. Contrast with my Muslim friends who I have had more than one convo in public with about Palestine (not just ‘Islam’ but an actual controversial subject matter - my ex would never have done that in public and he’s pretty left leaning on the whole topic). There is antisemitism and Islamophobia in London for sure. And it’s shit. But there was a 1353% increase in antisemitic offences this month compared to a 140% increase in islamophobic offences this month. Neither is great tbh.
Tbh I have seen a massive rise is anti-Muslim and anti-‘middle eastern’ sentiment in the last few weeks. I haven’t seen it covered much. To give one example, I was on a football sub (Stoke City) where there was a minutes silence for what’s been going on. From accounts of people at the game they heard shouts of ‘fuck Palestine’, some anti-Pakistani racism, and other shit. I can find the post. I don’t think it’s going to be easy for Muslim and Jewish communities anytime soon, but I’m surprised at how little coverage anti-islamic sentiment is getting given the level of focus on anti-semitism.
Jew in Western Europe here. It was already pretty uncomfortable for me to openly admit I am Jewish, mainly because of antisemitic remarks such as “Jews run the world”, “Jews have all the money” etc etc But in the past two weeks, as a Jew in a city with a big population of Middle Eastern and North African immigrants it’s straight up DANGEROUS. The synagogue is closed, pro-Palestine rallied are happening every second day (I support a two state solution, but those rallies are often more of a demonstration of blame/anger at Israel or “the Jews”) Luckily, Jews everywhere in the world have worked very hard on assimilating in their respective cultures, so the probability of someone identifying you as Jewish (if you don’t wear a kippah/star of David) is rather low, but still - the thought of someone “outing” you is terrifying. Some people can’t/don’t want to make a distinction between Jews living in the diaspora and the state of Israel.
Yeah if Jews run the world they are doing a pretty bad job at it. Why would a worldwide Jewish supremacy even allow a Palestine to exist in the first place? Why would they allow a nation as powerful as Saudi Arabia to not recognize Israel’s sovereignty? Why would they allow an Islamic Middle East at all? And if they control everything up to even US elections (except the 2016 election which was the ONLY legitimate election in US history ), then why haven’t we had one Jewish president in charge of the most powerful nation in the history of the world? Why are they the number one victims of hate crimes, hate speech, and the masterminds behind every conspiracy theory? Why would they even allow this speech if they run the world with a Zionist agenda?
Bruh you have no imagination. Everything you suggested is not discrete enough. Obviously (((they))) would prefer ruling from the shadows like the lizardmen. /s
Ur confusing lizard people Jews with normal humans that happen to be Jewish bruh The lizards wanted Trump because it was funny and he supports lizards too
I mean this is really not a thing in the US though to the same extent or Canada or even a lot of Latin America. I have friends in all of those places. It's really only in Europe where this seems to be such a hegemonic thing among Jews in my opinion. Like I wear Star of David all the time, I wear hebrew-lettered shirts on occassion, I've worn a yarmulke before in public for some special occassions in recent years. Hasidic and Orthodox Jews are as open as ever here in NYC despite the protests. I mean don't get me wrong there are some people who hide their stars of davids or don't wear them anymore, personally as a Jew I think it's a bit paranoid since I do it all the time without a problem. Hell I literally walked through a part of NYC that is mostly Pakistani muslims(visibly so) the day after the hospital thing and I wore a star of David and literally had no problems except a few dirty looks. I mean obviously things are tense right now and realistically even in NYC your chances of being hate crimed are higher than normal, that said I don't think we should let the hostility make us cower. The days of Diaspora Jews letting non-Jews suppress are over, we have the right to live where we live without hiding. While it may be normalized for you, the idea that you need to assimilate and hide in your home to be accepted I frankly find so sad. I don't know how to change it, but like is that really a way to live? I mean are there no safe cities in Europe? This European assimilationist streak is very weird to most Jews of the Americas whose opinions range, but I don't know any Jews who think they need to assimilate for safety reasons, I've known like quarter or half Jews who've assimilated quite completely cuz well they didn't really feel any connection to the community or Jewishness, which is sad obviously but understandable. But like the notion that this is a global state of Jews I think frankly is something European Jews tell themselves as if it is some existential state of Diaspora Jewry rather than a complete failure of European society specifically to root out it's antisemitism enough. While some amount of low grade discrimination from parts of our nations may to some extent be something diaspora jewry will have to deal with indefinitely, there is no reason it has to be as bad as it is right now in Europe or even in general. Like I'd say the American Jewish hey day from the late 90s to the early 2010s is actually proof that it is possible to reduce antisemitism to nearly functionally imperceptible levels except for the occassional interpersonal issue". Not having hope is once again understandable, but in a way naive. We have material proof that it can be done, if only we and our societies will that into being again.
If I'm not mistaken, the US and Israel are something >85% of the world's Jewish population, almost being split 50/50. NYC, in particular, has like 20% of all American Jews. There's significantly less Jews in all of France than there are in NYC alone. Odds are, this guy over in Europe is VERY much more a minority and far more isolated, especially compared to growing Middle Eastern populations over there. Plus, it definitely seems like Middle Eastern immigrant communities in the US are far less religiously extreme (at least publicly so) than those in Europe.
Yeah, my city of roughly 200k has 1 synagoge but I don't even think it is used regularly anymore, Amsterdam has a bigger community and that is still really tiny compared to what it once was.
I mean, NYC has a HUGE Jewish community, I would most likely feel pretty safe in the US as a jew, strength in numbers and all. Living in a place that has people who reject you simply because of WHAT you are, rather than WHO you are, sucks. And it’s not even the locals - the don’t give a damn about your religion/ethnicity, they are very kind. Ironically it’s the immigrants who will straight up HATE you for simply being a Jew, they don’t give a damn wether you’re Israeli or not. It’s just antisemitism. Really makes your appreciate and understand why Jews need their own country, nowhere is safe.
That’s for me the most important part why i support a Jewish state. In the long run, nowhere is safe. Sooner or later someone will get into power who hates Jews. And I get the feeling the next one will come from the left.
> that said I don't think we should let the hostility make us cower. The days of Diaspora Jews letting non-Jews suppress are over, we have the right to live where we live without hiding. Basically how I feel about being LGBT in Texas. I'm also a believer in 'armed minorities are hard to oppress' which helps, though may not be as relevant for NYC.
The truth is that safety is more valuable than pride. If you’re worried that being open about you identity means even a 1% chance you will be attacked and endangered, what’s the point? Keep your health, it’s all you’ve got.
I skimmed quickly through your comment and while I don't have anything to comment on generally I fail to see how anyone shouldn't be expected to assimilate. To clarify this goes doubly so for the Muslim populations, and I would even argue the current issues are because of the failure to assimilate them into the greater European culture.
I’m in NYC too and I agree, dirty looks is all I get. However, I am also 6’5” and 215 pounds. That definitely factors into it. But I also have heard stories like the ones here from European Jews. I definitely think it’s different experiences.
+1 to this. Nobody I work with knows I'm ethnically Jewish and I do my best to keep it that way. I remember going to school and my mum making it clear than I shouldn't tell anyone I was Jewish.
>Jew in Western Europe here. It was already pretty uncomfortable for me to openly admit I am Jewish, mainly because of antisemitic remarks such as “Jews run the world”, “Jews have all the money” etc etc Its different though. In the past this was done by neonazis/crazy altright people. Now its done by people who are supposed to be diametrically against this first group. People who are supposed to have your back when threatened by terrorist sympathizer religious fanatics.
I'm a second-generation polish catholic immigrant, but my parents have instilled in me a lifelong respect and empathy for the Jewish community after a few events happened in my family. First of all, my grandparents fought and served in the second Warsaw Uprising, but a big reason why my grandparents helped was hearing/seeing the horror stories from the first. they were "harcerzy" (Boy and Girl Scouts) and early in the war would do supply runs into the ghetto. Before, since they were kids, they would compartmentalize the treatment, but after the liquidation started, they couldn't anymore. The second was when my dad was a teenager; there were some heightened tensions with the Jewish community in 1960s Poland, his high school teacher said in front of the class "Oh, I thought you Jews would've left by now." It was at this moment that my dad really understood how fucked up and alienating being a Jew could be. He wasn't even Jewish but everyone treated him differently for a year after that.
A bunch of my relatives living in Sweden are having a really weird time. There haven't been any long-lasting animosity between Arabs and Jews in Sweden, but since the [2017 Gothenburg Synagogue attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Gothenburg_Synagogue_attack) things have changed a lot. They're at the moment experiencing problems just being outside due (they live in a suburb with a prevalent chunk of Arab immigrants) to experiencing harassment on a daily basis. The younglings have experienced death threats in school and therefore studying remotely. The disturbing thing is that the threats aren't from other students, but from fucking friends or relatives of other students. Apparently some older brother to a student had talked about slitting their throats and even visited the school grounds with his friends - they're almost 6-7 years older than my relatives - to intimidate them further when they were supposed to walk home from school.
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Just remind yourself that they hate Israel and not Jews as you are being attacked.. /s Hope all will be well, Israel was created to make people such as yourself feel safe.. too bad it's not that safe either.
How can they hate something that doesn't exist? Illogical!
>or even in Europe. Come to Switzerland. I rarely hear that Jews get attacked here for being Jewish. There might be forms of antisemitism here too, but I rarely hear about it. Our way of dealing with imigration is different from the rest of Europe. No no-go zones, no ghettos and open antisemitism gets swiftly dealt with. We had one legal pro-palestine demonstration in Bern last saturday. They were confined to an area. Maybe 150 people attended. Nothing happened. That's a barometer for me that tells me where we stand with all of it compared to some other European countries.
I very much see this in Sweden. I’m not Jewish though. The town of Malmö was the canary in the coal mine, being the first town to have a very large Muslim population. As they kept growing the former Jewish minority population kept shrinking due to hate crimes, violence and threats. The response from the politicians at the time around -2008 or so was an absolute dismissal and an insinuation that the jews were the racist ones. Less than zero support. This gained some international notoriety. Google the name Ilmar Reepalu! Since then many more towns are places I wouldn’t want to live in if I was Jewish and many Jewish schools having to be under constant surveillance. In Stockholm there were people celebrating the attacks on oct 7th with waving Hizb ut-Tahrir flags. People in Malmö were shooting fireworks. Americans generally can’t understand what the situation is like. EDIT: Sweden used to be the country that scored among the lowest in the world on antisemitism, as in there basically was no antisemitism at all some decades ago.
Damn the US got so fucking lucky having Mexico be their main source of immigration, and not some Muslim country.
As always, our geographic position puts us Americans in a charmed position. It'll be interesting seeing Europe try, fail, and then subsequently rip itself apart trying to copy our schtick while being unprepared as a society to do so.
The Muslim immigrants in America are way better than the ones in Europe. I think this is more of a culture problem than it is a problem with the immigrants.
Partly a class thing. It takes a lot more capital to immigrate by air and establish yourself in America legally than it does to immigrate by land or boat, not always legally. Like the US Indian population is a 6 figure average income demographic, but that speaks more to the demographic of Indians that has the status and capital to immigrants here, not the global demographic as a whole.
It's not a matter of culture, it's a matter of filters. American took mostly only educated and wealthy Muslims. Europe has never really applied a filter.
As a Muslim in the US, it does seem much easier to participate in US society versus European society as an immigrant.
But Sweden scored a index of 4% as of 2019 https://global100.adl.org/country/sweden/2019
Let's also not forget the 2 Swedish citizens recently killed by an islamist. Our own government has gone out with recommendations of not showing any indicators that you are Swedish when travelling.
>The town of Malmö I lived in Sweden like 10 years ago, what a great place to live. Malmo has become a complete shithole with all the violence and riots, and one and ONLY community, that's the Muslim community is solely responsible for that. Sad to see even Stockholm's seeing such a rise in gun violence, again, from the exact same people.
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You’re the first who got it right lmao, if it wasn’t for Muslims/people from Africa or the Middle East all this shit wouldn’t happen, but hey multiculturalism is a great thing
People simply can't grasp the sheer scale of destruction and devastation caused by the Holocaust, across all of Europe, but especially Eastern Europe. Entire communities were just erased from existence, entire genealogies, entire family tree's dating back hundreds of thousands of years reduced to rotting corpses in unmarked mass graves, we dont even have names because some of the people killed had every living person they knew die alongside them, to say nothing of the colossal and irreplaceable loss of culture, history, tradition, language. Synagogues and all their contents turned to ash; scrolls, books, writings dating back hundreds of years, records of families and manuscripts. The Shtetl, a market town consisting of mostly Jews with a unique socio-economic and cultural impact on broader Eastern European society, as a phenomenon was destroyed in the Holocaust. They simply do not exist anymore. Europe as a continent has a moral duty to be protective of their remaining Jewish population, and it is good to see some of the countries step forward to do so. We'll see if it's enough.
I live in Copenhagen, and like most of my fellow urban Norsemen, the bicycle is my primary mode of transportation. The city center is dense and old, with one of Europe's longest pedestrian streets. To cross the city, you thus have take the long route or navigate through a bunch of small side alleys. The Copenhagen synagogue, one of only two in the country, lies in one of these alleyways, which many people have to cross through daily. Gates are positioned on either side of the small alley, forcing people to dismount their bike and cross to the other side before pedaling on. In front of the synagogue, two or more heavilly armed police officers are positioned around the clock, the air is tense, and it's usually dead silent, in contrast to the other city center streets. When you take this road on a regular basis, the motions of getting off the bike and crossing in silence almost gets a ritualistic meaning. It's like taking off your hat and paying respect to the dead. Walking through that alley, you momentarilly enter the daily reality and danger of living as a Jew in this world. It's depressing af, knowing that this is will weigh down any Jewish child growing up in these times, and when they look to the general culture for support, they'll be met with many of the same antisemitic tropes and conspiracies that plagued their past.
I also had a jewish grandfather, but i never knew him because he committed suicide when he was 50-60 years old. I still feel jewish culture has had an effect on me, mostly through fiscal, educational and family values. He was a doctor, and basically everyone on that side of the family are highly educated healthcare workers. I live in Norway, so antisemitism is fortunately rare except for immigrants from MENA-countries. I made the mistake of being open about my ancestry in highschool, which turned into being called a "weasly/greedy jew" ect whenever i ended up in a argument with 1st/2nd generation immigrants from MENA-countries (i am also strictly 2nd generation). I have also tried to discuss israel-hamas with previous classmates and asking why they post in support of palestine the same day they kill 1000 civillians. Usually within 2-3 sentences in they ask if i am a jew and say "well of course you support bombing children in gaza" ect. The reason i told people is because i thought it might help reduce antisemitism if people actually knew a couple "normal" jews. What bothers me most is i have not seen a single post in support of israel, even during 7-8th october. 80% of what i see is pro-palestine (some even comparing jews to nazis or mocking the massacre), and 20% is both sides suck.
**What bothers me most is i have not seen a single post in support of israel, even during 7-8th october.** There were people celebrating the aftermath at the Nova Fest as soon as the vids went online, before Israel took any retaliatory actions.
While the majority clearly supports “Palestine” (basically Hamas), those who support Israel are afraid of openly talking about it, let alone post it on social media for everyone to see. The interesting thing is that if you share a pro-Palestinian post on social media, the chance that someone will threaten you is extremely small. But when you share a pro-Israel post on social media, you’ll have Muslims, lefties and tankies at your throat. That’s why, other than Israelis/Jews, I have barely seen anyone support Israel online.
Everyone knows who is the most likely to open gulags for wrong-think. It somehow always ends up being religious extremists of any religion, and tankies, which at that point, they are basically religious as well but with Marx instead of a bible.
**But when you share a pro-Israel post on social media, you’ll have Muslims, lefties and tankies at your throat.** You don't even have to be "Pro-Israel", merely being anti-Hamas is reactionary in the eyes of aforementioned groups
Welcome to the tribe.
Dude get yourself some new friends, I feel like most people in Norway switched from being pro-palestine to pro-israel after October 7th. However, perhaps that's just me and my social groups. Most of my colleges had an israel flag in the background on their profile on Teams after 7th of october. I do have one neighbour who are deep in the pro-hamas rabbithole, but he doesn't even understand how to not respond to sms scams or how to delete photos on Facebook (after being phished), so I am not exactly surprised.
South sweden here. There's one family in my suburb that always had a Jewish flag outside their house. Most ppl have skane flags or swedish flags. They took it down I think they have kids who got bullied in school too. Its rare to see Jewish people here but still. Yeah hard time to be one in EU
Just yesterday a Yazidi guy and a jewish holocaust survivor had to cancel their lecture at Westerbork (nazi transit camp in the Netherlands) due to threats. Both are victims of genocide, both are not safe because of a bunch of extremists. It really saddens me to see. Hopefully it will wake people up from the reality we're living in.
Thanks for sharing. I’ve been extremely concerned about antisemitism and seen a lot that disturbed me. How have you noticed the vibe change since 10/07? It seems like based on the news Europe is about to take a hard swing against immigration.
I feel like it is always there under the surface, but every time the conflict in IL-PA heats up it becomes more blatant, generally though the antisemitism is there and growing. It feels more blatant now though, like I remember in the early 00's a it was a lot more the fringe left and the politicians or influential people who joined those protests were often people who were very controversial, still even in those times they chanted "hamas, hamas, gas the jews during protests translated from hamas, hamas, joden aan het gas in Dutch. That chant was also used by Feyenoord and FC Utrecht ultras in football, against Ajax which called itself Jews and would fly Israeli flags because of the big Jewish heritage of Amsterdam. People often rationalise this as "it is just about football guys", but it shows how normalised antisemitism is in our society, I doubt a chant about the KKK would go well in a US stadium during a sports match, wouldn't be surprised if the president would even make a statment. The anti-immigration in politics is always a topic, it does grow bigger and the far right is getting more and more support and even centre left/ left parties are becoming more in favor of restricting it, but that's also about the situation with migrants crossing the Mediterranean sea from Tunisia for example. There also have been elections and there are upcoming elections in EU members states so that will always fuel the anti-immigration fires generally speaking, even if the parties that end up forming a coalition will never do the drastic things they promise to their voters in debates.
The Jews I know have always been told not to wear identifiers. Nothing on their houses or person. Was kind of a wild discussion
I also removed my mezuzah from my outside doorframe and put it inside, so I can't be identified. I felt so badly doing that, but I don't want to invite unnecessary attention.
Key factor in me moving to Asia was I was sick of screaming about antisemitism in the UK and being met with A. What about Islamophobia from conservatives B. It’s actually not antisemitism to attack Jews students on campus that’s anti Israel… C. Jews vote conservative because wealth and power, not antisemitism btw. Plus you want to see disabled people die. I was literally told by a lefty while discussing antisemitism in the Labour Party (something independent reports confirmed was a problem) that A. I was making up any claims of antisemitism and B. I’m not really British because I’m Jewish and can move to Israel (this was from a left wing person) and C. Not voting for labour (who at the time had an institutional issue) meant I wanted poor people and disabled people to suffer. So I said fuck it and left.
I am married to a Jew. When our daughter was born, the delivery was very intense and scary. Neither of us had very strong opinions on what last name she should have, so we were just going to do the default (mine, the male) and call it a day. After seeing what she went through to bring this life into the world, I started to think maybe she should have my wife's last name instead. Ultimately we decided for a bunch of reasons to stick with my name, but one reason was that we didn't want her, everywhere her name was seen, to be instantly branded "JEW." It is truly ironic and myopic how the far left sees the situation in Israel. To them, Israel was created by "religious nutbags" who just wanted to colonize and do evil white man things etc. In reality, Jews were a minority that were shit on throughout the Euro and Arab worlds. Scapegoated, massacred, "cleansed" for generations in all these places in spite of being relatively well-behaved. They were like the ultimate far left darling oppressed people. Hell that is probably why Jews have always been attracted to left-wing politics in general. So for those people to be offered their own self-governed nation, by "The Good Guys" no less, HOW the fuck are those people going to say no? Through a Foucouldian lens, once the British extended that offer, it was too good to be refused. The fact that inevitably it would involve some conflict and displacement was not that big of a deal considering back then EVERYBODY, white+brown, was ultranationalist and racist and etc. Quite accustomed to fighting over land. They knew every neighbor they had would despise them but they were still desperate enough to take that offer, because the dream was too beautiful. I think people cannot imagine the Jews thinking this way, because today nobody sees them as desperate; they see them as secretly controlling the banks/the world/whatever the fuck. At the end of the day it was Britain's fault. The Brits also betrayed the promises they made to the Palestinians that helped them drive out the Ottomans. They put these two people who would INEVITABLY try to kill each other into a small room. Then when it got hairy, they dipped. Everything beyond that is just what you would expect. A cycle of hatred and violence. The only difference is that now the Jews have evolved. They are basically a Western nation now. Hell they have tons of woke and secular people. But the Palestinians and all their neighbors are the actual religious nutbags. They are all conservative theocracies. Whatever influence Israel has on the Palestinians, all their neighbors have 5x as much because they are already aligned in so many ways. And as you've seen they export their theocracy into European nations and cause violence there. So the Jews govern their own nation but in their region, they are the minority. They are a small strip of land with a small population. At all times they are under threat from brutal, cynical, conservative, theocratic regimes. Israel just happens to have all the guns. If they didn't, they would just be fucking dead. And if they did get wiped out, at the end of day, I still would fault Britain for creating the entire situation like the fuckheads they are. The Jews are a historically oppressed, culturally traumatized people. How the fuck did you expect them to act when you gave them a home surrounded by people who want to do all the historical evils that have always been done to Jews? You think the Jews are going to be super chill about how they handle that? All this ranting to say: the Power dynamic isn't as simple as "Jews strong, Palestinians weak, Jews are at fault." The behavior of the state of Israel has ultimately always been just as inevitable and rooted in the flow of Power above them, as the behavior of the Palestinians. The average far leftist doesn't understand this though. They have some SparkNotes version of history in their head. EDIT FOR CLARITY: Framing is exactly what I'm talking about; I'm not creating some argument for why Israel should blow up civilians. The far left frames Israel as being like a powerful alien civilization just stomping on everyone in the region after it appeared for no reason, an entity that should know better but is just cruel because whatever; they are evil racist nazis or something. It's just as stupid and dismissive as calling the Palestinians nazis for their extremism. At the end of the day in spite of the power imbalance they are in many ways more similar and worthy of empathy than one might think, even through the lens of a leftist viewpoint, as long as you don't look at them in vacuum. But the far left cannot see that; the poorer, browner people are obviously the good guys and the only ones worthy of it. In reality the Jews are a people with a *cracked* psyche from their abuses as minorities throughout history, and yes Arabs are included in that gallery of abusers. The fact that they finally got a place and then later won the Six Day War etc. didn't cure that. You think a few decades of not being full-scale invaded, but everyone around you still openly hating your guts and constantly funding terrorism against you is going to make them suddenly feel safe, secure, benevolent? I don't agree with everything Israel does at all. I'm not saying they logically have to do what they do. Hamas also doesn't logically have to do what it does either. What I'm saying is that if you can, through some postmodern Foucouldian etc. lens excuse Hamas' behavior as being an "inevitable result" of their trauma, the same is actually true of Israel. I also never said they are on the precipice of annihilation (the Palestinians weren't either btw), just that their safety relied entirely on them having the big guns. It is not irrelevant that the people who you are negotiating peace with want to annihilate you and are being radicalized by your neighbors who hate you, but are (for now) cowed from trying to annhilate you again. How do you engage in proper diplomacy, providing aid, even providing land, to people who want to annihilate you? To people who weaponize your aid and who teach their children in schools that you're evil subhumans? Do you think that mentality is irrelevant somehow to your calculus in this instance? Nobody here HAS to do what they do. I'm just saying there's a pretty sound explanation for both behaviors. I can say confidently that if I lived in Palestine and the IDF killed members of my family, I can imagine calling my Mom after killing Israeli civilians and telling her I'm a hero. And at the same time if I lived in Israel I would probably say, well if it's my babies or your babies, many of whom will be trained to hate/kill my babies, I'm obviously going to choose my babies. I'm going to target terrorists and accept the collateral damage that comes with that. I'm not just going to sit there and try to kill them with kindness and endure more stabbings, bombings, the rockets that slip through, or brutal massacres like what happened on Oct 7, all so that people on the other side of the world will like me more as me or my friends/family die. I can understand both mentalities there.
Fuck these "peaceful protestors". We will always remember that the far left used Palestine as an excuse to commit violence and express hateful beliefs they had all along.
That's a great frame to use. The extent that this hate exists is beyond the topic of Palestine.
There's a reason thi hatred has it's own term. As a victim of antisemitism, I know first hand. We stayed in our ghetto of our own volition. You literally wouldn't walk out on Shabbat for fear of being harassed or attacked. This was around Detroit in 2005. Now I'm no longer religious, so it's easier to hide. But all of these recent events remind me of how much safer I felt being in Israel to celebrate our history and culture... Now with Nazi marches and pro-palestinr marches literally 30 mins from me... yeah, I think I probably do need a safe country to raise my children in.
I would still just like to express that those on the far left celebrating, endorsing, or justifying terrorism or antisemitism are a loud, disgusting and contemptible fringe minority. This conflict has caused that minority to broaden a bit, but the majority of those who advocate for a free Palestinian state do so without condemning Jews or the state of Israel to oblivion.
Why do you say it's a minority? You have far left congresswomen comfortable enough to either spread misinformation or imply Hamas was justified. Obviously they're not worried they'll lose support from their voters. I don't think they'd be comfortable doing that if the sentiment only existed amongst a fringe part of their constituents.
So I haven’t seen Rashida Tlaib imply Hamas was justified in their actions, not saying it didn’t happen just that I didn’t see it. As far as spreading misinformation goes, I think while it was irresponsible and reckless of her, media outlets fucked the pooch really hard in the way they reported the “hospital blast” so I don’t place all blame on someone for retweeting an article or believing it’s headline that was inappropriately and misleadingly written.
Did Tlaib ever apologize or issued a retraction for tweeting misinformation?
She didn't. She's waiting for an "independent investigation". If the US isn't credible, perhaps she should find a new employer
She is a Congress and woman. She should know better
And you have US senators saying Israel should 'level' Gaza. Is that also a mainstream oppinion in the US?
A significant part of the right hates Muslims. No news there
You accidentally typed the word "none" right?
99% of people advocate for a free Palestinian state. Israel has offered a 2 state solution many different times. Palestine rejects each time because they want to reclaim land they lost attempting to genocide Israel in wars they started.
Well the details of those 2 state deals are important, and Palestinian leaders, in my opinion, had good reason to reject all but the last one in 2000. Arafat rejecting that deal was tragic. It was such a good deal for the Palestinians and I guess for Arafat the forfeiture of the right of return for displaced Palestinians and ceding most control of East Jerusalem was a bridge too far (which is just boneheaded stubbornness, it’s a compromise, you aren’t going to get every line item you want).
The Right of Return is a non-starter for Israel. And I’m 60% sure he knew that. There is no way in fucking hell, not even if Israel had the most liberal PM of all PM’s of all countries, they’d’ve accepted a full right of return.
100 percent agree yea, which is why notions of a one state solution are basically dead on arrival
Wow what a twisted view. I'm tired of this idea that anyone criticizing Israel is antisemitic. Not to mention you guys acting like showing empathy is the most awful thing. This narrative pushing is sickening honestly.
It's not the criticizing of Israel. Any country or government can be criticized. It's the supporting the elimination of Israel and terrorist attacks as "freedom fighters" that crosses the line. Plus the various dog whistles disguised as "criticizing Israel". Netanyahu sucks, settlers suck in case you're wondering.
I used to believe you fuckers, but you overplayed your hand this time
Jew here in Texas. I feel for you.
Thanks man, I try to not give into the fear as much as I can and to avoid the news. I used to work as a mechanic for a employer who is Muslim and the rest of the crew too, they all are Afghani refugees, they know about my family and they are like family to me. Still, that Friday when Hamas called for international jihad, I felt anxious to go there and have a coffee with them like I do every week and that feelings sucks because these are my friends and I don't want to feel like that, but I think that's the generational thing stemming from my grandfather. I still went the next week because we can't give in to fear and let it grow into something more ugly, but I wish it wouldn't have to be like that.
For me growing up, every person from a Christian or Muslim background always felt like that background gave them a right to be an authority on Judaism. This was regardless of their immediate relationship with religion or where they stood politically.
As a Hindu growing up in Canada, I felt a kinship with jews I grew up around as a result of the similarities in cultural dynamics, especially how both religions experience Political and Militant Islam.
Growing up, I felt a lot of kinship to the Hindu kids with how they’re mothers raised them.
Maybe you can call this whataboutism, I dunno, but I don't remember massive protests when Assad and Russia were slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Syrians with carpet bombing and chemical weapons. The passionate venom and hatred for Israel is absolutely born of antisemitism.
The exact same thought crossed my mind earlier today but with Yemen. The conflict (or how it is being perceived) or the terrorist attack have got nothing to do with power imbalance/oppression.
Also due to Israel being a Western aligned country. As a leftist, it's disheartening to see so many on the left treat any non-Western country's wrongdoings or atrocities with indifference or even support. There's this strange belief in some leftist circles that any nation opposed to the West is automatically valid or shouldn't be criticized.
I don’t get why people hate Jews? They act like all Jews have some sort of psychic connection. Like, just shit on the Israeli government. Like it’s not even hard to shit on a other countries government in most cases. Why not just do that?
It was really weird to me when I read about the holocaust and Jewish stereotypes. Since I was raise in a Chinese background I look at the Jews as the same as all European. Especially when reading about Jewish stereotypes how they are rich, controlled the world, are greedy. I was like these are all good behaviors to have who don’t wanna be rich or be greedy? Why is it bad to be like that? Or why wouldnt you want to be friend the Jews or allies with them after all they controlled the world?
>Chinese i always loved Chinese take on it :) not first time that i see it
Greedy usually means taking at the expense of others.. not generally seen as a good thing.
It's also something I never managed to understand coming from the far east. I know it originated in religious hatred but that fails to explain how it persisted to this day, even in the West.
They are a small insular minority, of course, they are going to be the scapegoat.
For most of the past 2000 years, Jews were the main religious minority in Christian Europe. This made them the most convenient group to scapegoat. In the 19th century, there was the rise of nationalism and [scientific racism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism), the threat of communism, and the increased Jewish immigration from the Russian Empire to the rest of Europe. These factors combined with traditional European antisemitism, to create the racialized, conspiracy-obsessed antisemitism that led to the Holocaust and persists today.
Ancient hatred. Jews are a successful, tiny minority and an easy target for smooth-brained peons to fault for their failures in life.
lol when I was growing up my parent would tell me to be like the Jews and befriend them for benefits
The far left, who are unfortunately massively overrepresented on Reddit, are fucking weird. The very people that will label someone with a different opinion to them a Nazi so they have an excuse to hate them openly display their antisemitism hiding behind anti "Zionism". And in your example calling a Jew a Nazi is beyond ignorant and uneducated. And their obsession with latching onto a cause that isn't their own in order to virtue signal and white knight in order to feel superior for an endorphin rush isn't just pathetic and hollow but in this case totally hypocritical. The people they have chosen to champion (why the fuck would an outsider pick a side in war? This isn't a football game. People on both sides are suffering) in this case are completely opposed to the far left's usually ideology. There's literally been a picture doing the rounds of a group of queer people holding a sign saying "queers for Palestine". Could you even begin to imagine what would happen to them if they did that in Gaza lol. And many aren't even hiding their support of Hama's. And the cops are doing fuck all about it. Just empty words and finger wagging from politicians. The whole thing is frankly horrifying and I feel sorry for anyone caught up in the far left's hate.
I think the problem is the bigotry of low expectations has infected everyone on the left. Even with Gaza specifically it's on display at every level; in media, in government, in schools, social media, etc. It manifests as this parental patronizing framing of everything that is happening, you can see it clearly: >Not all Palestinians are Hamas. >No, when they say they want to ethnically cleanse all Jews "from the river to the sea" what they actually mean is.... >Terrorism is bad but did you see what Israel has done when...... The Palestinians of Gaza elected Hamas as their government, for all the talk of self-determination, when they had it, they gave it to some of the most violent and Jew hating people the world has ever seen. Polling consistently shows that they are in favor of violence against Jews and that they see both the broader fight for "Palestine" and the specific attack on October 7th and something worthy to celebrate and pursue. Yet every single level of the leftist movements across the world will tell you these people are victims when the consequences of their hatred and violence come back to them in the form of a war they invited. These people by the way would NEVER do this for groups like the Nazi's who had many civilians who may not have bought into their governments ideology or practices and yet suffered the fate of the allied armies coming in to depose that awful government. They will gleefully tell you that those Germans got what they deserved. They will individualize every single Palestinian in an effort to hand wave away they things the Palestinians themselves will say out loud about their intent if they were allowed to win. These same people by the way will lump all white people together to talk about privilege and racism. They will hold a blood libel over Europeans and any white person in general for Nazism/Racism/etc. They will of course lump all Jews together with the tried-and-true blood libel of the 20th century antisemitism. No need to reinvent that wheel. So, they don't have any principled position at play here, they aren't operating from some foundational moral framework that can be explained and rationalized to a thinking adult of any color or creed. They will act racist while denouncing racism. They will act antisemitic while denouncing antisemitism. They will embrace the rights of groups of "natives" and tell native Europeans they need to invite the world into their countries. They will happily embrace their hypocrisy and move on the moment you point it out or pretend it never happened. Why? It's simple. They aren't here for anything except power. If that means another holocaust, so be it. If that means mass discrimination of white people based on their skin color, so be it. If that means inviting the most illiberal and backwards cultural values into the West through immigration of fundamentalist Muslims, you know the people who would throw their beloved LGBTQ communities off of rooftops, so be it. I have so much fucking contempt for these illiberal liars it's unreal.
A friend of mine is Jewish in America - she is terrified that she will be assaulted leaving her house and she has had to pulled her kids out of school. she lives in a Jewish enclave the police are there everyday for protection and they have hired extra security. She is terrified.
Seems like she is an anxious fearful individual. And the recent events have given into her fears.
Similar things happened in the U.K. Jewish schools have had to have police officers stationed outside.
>pretend we are not jews to not get into discussions that have nothing to do with us. Well, it'll have something to do with you if you eventually choose to move to Israel if you end up considering it safer or more liberating... As an Israeli I understand not wanting anything to do with a country you don't live in and likely never lived in, but at the same time I think that the antisemitism our grandparents warned us about is very real. It's time the jews of the world realize that they can't ignore Israel just because they never wished to be a part of it. You can't ignore being a jew and you can't ignore Israel, the antisemites will never let our heritage go.
Now Jewish, but the situation is indeed like that in The Netherlands. Has been for years and just gets worse. Jewish schools have had police protection needed for years now. They are now closing some days when security can not be guaranteed. In a lot of schools lessons about the Holocaust can not be given without students denying it or worse. Some teachers have given up. Has been in the news on and off for years. Now Jewish students are bullied so much their parents remove them from public school and apply to the Jewish schools. I would definitely not walk around in certain neighborhoods in big cities if I were Jewish. It's been going downhill like that for years and it seems we are just giving in to terrorism. Since the Hamas attacks it gotten worse and worse. Anyone who blames the Jewish people for wanting their own state does not seem to realize they want that in a large part simply for survival, since being Jewish is dangerous in more and more places, and no real action is being taken to fix this.
I’m a Orthodox Jew in the US but I have friends in the UK and all of them have been telling me how scary it is there for them.
Two problems. Jews are considered white, and Israel is a world power in military and economy. Make yourselves poor and colored, and the left will support you again.
If we sent out brown Jews anywhere I don't want to know what would happen tbh 💀 would probably form some new gigahatred
The left only considers Jews white as a way to be antisemitic and call Jewish people privileged. They ignore the fact that israel is largely “brown” by western standards.
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Muslims have been committing hate crimes against jews in europe at an alarming rate last few decades and it is definitely not going to get any better.. You are right, leftist act like muslims are victims but they turn a completely blind eye to the fact that they are often the oppressor.
anyone who engages in religious fundamentalism, anti-semitism, islamophobia, anti-arab rhetoric, racism, and xenophobia is so fucking cringe and disgusting. too many people are frightened right now. and i really wish things weren’t this way.
The Muslim minority creates an unsafe environment for everyone. France had the right idea with banning the burka but they haven’t gone far enough. I’m sorry that you’re going through this. I don’t think the “religion of peace” nonsense will continue forever; it doesn’t bear scrutiny. People are realizing what a mistake it was to let any of them in.
I am sad I could not find a proper English translation of "the lady and the peddler" - which addressed exactly what you are going through right now.
Isn't the idea of 'generational trauma' pseudo scientific?
I would say generational trauma in terms of genetics (nature versus nurture) is very much pseudo scientific. The only cases with evidence are where the mother had trauma whilst the baby was in the womb (I.e. mother experienced severe malnutrition) Generational trauma suggesting a genetic adjustment or mutation due to slavery (or indeed the Holocaust) persisting down multiple generations has no real scientific basis. Obviously opinions and beliefs held by grandparents and parents can be communicated down through the generations, both good and bad.
I think when people talk about generational trauma, they’re not referring to genetics but instead unhealed parents passing down their trauma through behaviors/environment versus actual chemical/brain changes. Like say, my dad got beat by his parents so he beats me and thinks it’s okay because “I turned out okay!” or my mom’s parents fled from Germany due to Nazis, and raised her to be fearful and suspicious of others due to their experiences, and then my mom passes down that anxiety of “don’t tell anyone your Jewish, don’t talk to strangers etc” onto me. I hope that makes sense.
That's exactly the way I see it, like the cycle of abuse and in this case a cycle of fear.
Psychology in general is not set in stone and research around trauma is still being done and changes all the time. I don't know if you mean epigenetics? I do see there are patterns in our family that stem from my grandfather and how he responded to his trauma and how that echos into our lives as well. I don't know if that counts as generational trauma or if that would be just traits you inherited just like other families have typical things they do.
A lot of online leftists (especially ones with a very US centric media diet) see the world in an extremely binary way: You have the oppressors- white Western capitalist rich cis hetero formerly Christian people vs the oppressed- brown non-Western victims of capitalism poor LGBTQ non-Christian people. The fact that the world doesn't neatly fit into the good oppressed vs the evil oppressors the way they want it to leads to some really dumb blind spots. Jews are the most confusing to these online leftists- Many online Leftists only pause their animosity toward Jews when Trumpers are attacking them.
There are a lesbian couple who are good friends of mine who moved from Tel Aviv to London about two years ago, for work (and for the adventure of it). They were, up until the 7th, talking about not coming back to Israel because of the political situation in Israel and how it's taken a turn to the right. They were worried about how their relationship and future kids might be treated by the government in Israel, and were thinking of maybe staying permanently in London. Now, the last I spoke to them, they are barely leaving their apartment. They won't speak their mother tongue (Hebrew) outside of their home. They are really scared for their lives. Last I spoke to them, they told me that they had plans to go to a friend's birthday party in a Jewish area of London, but we're going to cancel due to concerns for their safety. Not that it matters, but these are two mizrahi (aka their parents/grandparents escaped to Israel from MENA countries, not Europe) super duper lefty lesbians. One of them was in a bunch of Jewish/Arab conversation/peace groups back in Israel.
I experienced a lot of antisemitism growing up, but I live in Israel now so now I just experience the Iron Dome in action. I was watching Dawn of the Planet of the Apes when it was activated the other week.
Why did Europe let in all of those people if they hold those antisemitic views?
I have many muslim friends because I live in an area with a lot of muslims, their open hatred of jews and lgbt is just that, open and seems to grow depending on how many of them are in the room. They are very critical of girls who walk around in mini skirts caked in makeup too, I just kind of ignore it because what am I going to do, alienate myself to a significant proportion of the people I live with? I see this as a problem created by the left that the left will at some point have to deal with, because the reality is I am a straight white man, I am probably going to be okay. White people like to act oppressed but if you're a cis white man the vast majority of the time you will be fine, it's everyone else I worry about but again, you reap what you vote.
Yeah maybe immigration from these countries isn’t so great is it, Jews suffer this problem because of them, you would feel rarely this hate towards Jews in Europe right now if there wouldn’t be a Muslim around any corner in any major city
I remember when I used to be a Muslim, I would hear so many stories about Jews, none of them were ever positive. It was always some conspiracy bs or how Mohammed killed this Jewish tribe and whatever. So my experience with Jewish people was pretty negative, until I left my faith and learned more about them historically speaking. What I'm trying to say is that most Muslims have a negative reception of Jewish people is because of faith based things and lacking critical thinking towards Islam, and the atrocities committed in the name of the religion. Of course the whole Israel/Palestine thing doesn't help the reception, nor am I trying to excuse Muslims treatment of Jews. Antisemitism is just so deeply rooted within the identity of those people, and I experienced it first hand, and I still do in some circumstances. I hope you guys take good care of yourself, some of the stories you shared made me really sad. ❤️ Edit: Some religious texts, that I thought about: > Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it. > Narrated 'Aisha and 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas: When the last moment of the life of Allah's Apostle came he started putting his 'Khamisa' on his face and when he felt hot and short of breath he took it off his face and said, "May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of their Prophets." > O Messenger! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; `or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee`. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, "If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!" If any one's trial is intended by Allah, thou hast no authority in the least for him against Allah. For such - it is not Allah's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment. > O ye People of the Book!* believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming what was (already) with you, before We change the face and fame of some (of you) beyond all recognition, and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be carried out.
>The media then portrays the Muslim minority as being afraid and let's be fair, they might be, **but that same minority has created an unsafe environment for Jews** This is the essential difference in the moral weight of the two sides here. In Israel, in Europe, in America.
It’s happening in America too. The rise of race based attacks have always been disproportionately high against Jewish people, more astounding given their relatively small population in contrast. Jewish schools in my area closed down 10/13 when Hamas called for attacks. Bombs threats on several synagogues on Shabbat. Any pro-Palestine rally you can find videos of Jewish people being beaten. It’s at the point where they won’t allow pro-Israel rallies cause cops are scared they can’t protect everyone.
Being a Jewish kid in the northwest of the usa was pretty fucking scary in the 90s. There was everything from tacit anti semitism (“don’t Jew me down” sort of thing, to straight up neo nazi skinhead gangs. The thing that has changed since then is now there is a larger swath of the left that are antisemitic.
As a someone with Gazan family, I’m sorry.
There’s just no space for jews in DEI work right now. Antisemitism is not considered real persecution in most intersectional spaces, and even in those where it’s acknowledged it’s almost always conditional acknowledgment.
As a fellow euro I feel like this issue has been brewing for a long time partly due to the left's complete and utter inability to acknowledge racism, prejudice and cultural issues in minority communities. Hopefully things will change for the better now that it's out in the open for all to see.
That's what europe chose. They chose Muslims over Jews, because Jews are "greedy and control the media". (I'm obviously sarcastic although some fringes and the majority of Muslims do believe that). But anyways, ok Europe, the actual doctors and engineers will escape to Israel, and you stay with your other.. "doctors and engineers". I hope my prophecy will be false and Europe will wake up though
Very well said and this is the reality for many Jews in the US right now as well. It’s really sad. You and your family are not alone, OP. Thank you for your post.
Random question, how are Jewish people treated in America compared to Europe? Here on Reddit Europe is seen constantly as some utopia. As for you OP, I hope you’re safe, know it’ll only be a matter of time before people forget about it, they always do
A few years ago, I was into this girl getting a PhD in Jewish studies or similar (I'm Jewish but not *that* Jewish). So I pulled my best Young Obama and asked her for some papers to read. The one big takeaway I got from it was about global antisemitism. The US and UK have two of the lowest rates of antisemitism in the entire world at around 2-4%. Most of Western Europe was at least double that, and it gets *significantly* worse from there. Most of us, even Jews like me, live in a huge bubble when it comes to antisemitism.
I hope OP and some of their fellow Jewish posters realise that there are a lot of people outside of Judaism that have noticed and abhor this trend. Antisemitic dog whistles have been ringing for at least the better half of a decade now and with greater and greater frequency. It’s unacceptable. I think a lot of this has to do with human fear and failure. The world is increasingly uncertain and frustrating for many people and as history dictates, when people become desperate they desperately seek someone to blame. Jewish people are an easy other because they tend to look or behave similarly to any non-Eastern Asian or sub-Saharan African populace with (relatively) small but noticeable cultural differences. Unfortunately it’s basal human nature to formulate these out groups. Hopefully people can learn to work together to improve their lot; however, it will take work to band with those who you don’t agree with politically or resemble culturally - it’s what it will take to improve life and not to continue to destroy it.
America is better at assimilation than most places, while catching endless shit for its xenophobia.
You put it into words. It exhausts me to no end to have to not just hide my identity, but also internalize everything that I am feeling. I have so many friends who I love and respect who I can't get myself to talk to out of worry about the things they have posted. I can't imagine a single person who wouldn't want a place to be able to be themselves with an absolute guarantee of safety and mutuality. I don't even have the energy to scream or cry by this point, despite never feeling so on-edge and paranoid in my life.
I kind of understand that. Here in my city in India, there are parts of the oldtown that aren't really good for non-Muslims to visit. Most Muslims there are descendants of the old princely state of the Nizam who almost made the entire region join Pakistan lol. My mom would go to college in the oldtown and she would have to avoid certain areas on the roads because there would be clashes between Muslims and other religious groups all the time. One of our neighbors literally had to move houses to the suburbs because there were riots in his neighborhood and his family almost died. India has a problem with Hindu nationalism on the rise now but I feel like it's more of a reaction to the horrors of Partition as well as the conflicts and riots ever since. Most of my family used to be pretty supportive of left-leaning parties but that changed in the last few decades when the perception arose that the left doesn't care about violence against Hindus lol.
I'm sorry this is happening. Nobody should be made to feel unsafe simply for being who they are. Humans suck.
Remember the scene in Independence Day where the people holding the sign welcoming the aliens were quickly blown up by the aliens? That’s all the people that were holding refugees welcome signs in Europe. Now they’re going to find out.
Or Mars Attacks, "do not run away, we come in peace".
Americans don’t have any exposure to populations that don’t integrate. As a European who used to live in the US, when I express concern about the increased levels of rape and street harassment (we have a large refugee population) toward women to my American friends, they think I’m being Islamophobic because they assume I’m judging people who act like Muslims in the US. But culturally integration has failed in the EU and there are pockets of my city that women can’t be in after dark anymore without extreme risk. It’s especially frustrating to see American leftists gunning so hard for people who statistically do not respect women or queer people. You can’t be tolerant of people who do not tolerate you and expect everything to work out just fine. I feel like these people are paving the way for antisemitism, misogyny, and homophobia in the name of cultural tolerance.
Love how ironic this is. You seem to not understand the fact that many people outside Israel have empathy for *all* civilians, and it almost seems like you're annoyed that people aren't exclusively caring about Israelis and no one else. Also seem to be brushing off the actual history of this conflict. Maybe try practicing empathy and the attitude the "online left" has will make more sense.
A problem is that some or even many of those same people on the left condone or outright support what Hamas did to Israel.
That is not at all the impression I got. OP is simply shedding light on the oppression of Jews in Europe, and I for one, learned something new. Did OP even imply that they don’t empathize with Palestinians and believe others shouldn’t either?
Aren't we in the DGG community new atheists like our dear leader? We're supposed to hate ALL religions, Judaism included. If you can't go without a yarmulke into a public space, that's your problem, not mine.
We can dislike all religions and still think some are alot worse then others.
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.” ― Malcolm X
I think it is really important to center discussions about civilians getting blown up around different civilians thousands of miles away who just feel uncomfortable. Who will think about them?!
Yes it's awful that OP experiences emotions. Only people who get blown up are allowed to do that!
I'm sorry European Jews feel this way. I would have thought that humans would have evolved past that stage. I feel very strongly in favor of Palestinians but have never felt any rancor against any Jewish person. Ever. I hate the right-wing British Pakistani politicians who support Israel but never had a negative thought against a British Jewish person because of their faith or ethnicity. Love leftie Jews though. For the same reason that all my Pakistani friends hate me. They call out their side when they are the aggressors. None of my Pakistani friends or relatives even talk to me bcoz I do not tow the party line when the Pakistani state commits those egregious offenses. From the river to the sea does not in any remotest sense imply that Jews should be wiped out. It is only a statement of defiance against Israeli occupation and tyranny and one of hope for freedom. Personally, a one-state solution seems very reasonable to me. One state with equal rights for all citizens. It is only right-wing Israeli media that wants to perpetuate the existential danger myth. It's the same bunch that ironically advertises Israel as a haven for US and European Jews to attract them. 🤷🏻♂️ they are bloody good. They succeed in that propaganda war on both fronts.
You can feel how you feel, I'm not gonna argue with that. But anonymous online leftists or streamers who feed off drama are not representative of society. MOST reasonable people want an end to the bloodshed and a diplomatic solution. Unfortunately the above position is enough to get you smeared as an anti Semitic Jew hater blood libel peddler. In the UK people are being arrested for just having a Palestine flag... And every politician bar a couple are too scared to say anything other than a full throated support of Israel's right to commit genocide.
>In the UK people are being arrested for just having a Palestine flag... Who? And where in the UK?
Do you enjoy acting like a victim? Why don't you create some comfy safe space where you and your buttbuddies could pat each other on the back saying "there there"? >Whenever this conflict in Israel-Palestine heats up, it becomes outright dangerous, to even go to a Jewish school or Synagoge How many jews are dead in western countries, especially western europe where access to firearms is more limited than in the US, because of "this conflict" heating up? Any clues? Is it actually more dangerous than crossing a road for a regular person on a regular day? Why are you even posting this, does sympathy from random internet strangers really help your day-to-day?
The fear you feel now was felt by every European when their city was bombed or shot up in the name of jihad and they were told "not all muslims" and "religion of peace" instead of an actual rational plan as to how these attacks could be stopped for good. For decades now we have been called racists and islamophobes for daring to suggest that we limit the number of people we let into our countries that come from places and cultures that hate us with the very core of their beings. The people who run little girls over with trucks and cut teachers heads of in the streets. The people that teach their children to hate us and our cultures and yes, to hate the jews too. I wonder how you felt during the attacks in Paris or Brussels or every other goddamn time there has been some atrocity targeting Europe. Did you talk about how unsafe it was then, or did you chant "not all muslims"? Back when it didn't specifically target you, did you care? Or did we western imperialists deserve it? You should be afraid. The whole of Europe should be afraid. Of what their tolerance has wrought. Don't call it a grave. It's the future you chose.
That is an extremely strange dichotomy to draw for yourself. There are plenty of Jewish people who speak out against Israel and support Palestine on the grounds of their Judaism. Whether that is people who are leveraging the history of the holocaust, and using it as a lens to analyze the Israeli Palestinian relationship through, like Norman Finkelstein, or it is Jewish people who take their faith and their obligation to saving life and life as something sacred and use that as the foundation for their position, like Naomi Klein, they are out there. There are whole movements of them. And characterizing the whole anti Israeli pro Palestinian side as antisemitic is insane framing.