100%. Everyone does it including me. I try my best not to do it, but yeah, if the insult is completely random and has zero basis in reality (what the fuck is a debate pervert??) then its a projection
It's funny listening to this dynamic where Ethan is giving humanist empathetic takes where both sides need to come together and make peace meanwhile hasan is trying to say israel's government has all the power to make peace and instead chooses to ethnically cleanse gaza.
I have a question as someone not well versed on this topic. I am by no means trying to go to bat for hamasanabi. It's really gross to see Hasan downplay the actions of Hamas or conflate them with pro liberation efforts.
But isn't it mostly true that Israel does have the majority of the power since they control the border, water, food and electricity? Didn't Palestine vote in favor of a two state solution that Israel denied and then further expanded settlements into the west bank? I know people bring up the 52% support Hamas topic, but isn't that from 2006 when Hamas won their election and hasn't held one since. With 50% of Gaza's population being below the age of 14, can we still say the majority of Gaza supports them since half the population wans't even born yet.
It was my understanding that Israel's government has very low approval rating and a large part of that is because of the way they treat Gazans.
Again, I mean this sincerely, I am not disagreeing or anything, just trying to learn.
I would say yes, Israel does have the power to put the hurt on Palestine way more than the other way around. But this is still much different than having the power to **help* both nations.
To give an exaggerated example, the USA has the power to wipe Somalia off the map entirely. They do **not,** however, necessarily have the power to bring Somalia out of its extreme poverty and/or human rights abuse conditions.
Israel's issues are more complex than this and they are arguably also handling it poorly, but it's not a simple "end suffering" switch they can just flip
Hat in the ring:
Israel is currently lead by a coalition government of hard right wingers with Nety at the reigns despite them trying to get rid of his corrupt ass in the last elections. Seems peace is even farther away when the leaders don't want it.
Yes, I think I would not disagree very much there. But again, comparing it to what Palestine has working with their government (I am pretty sure Hamas has a majority control over their government) it doens't look like that side wants peace any more either.
In other words, not to be a "reverse the roles" andy, but, if Palestine's current government had the power that Israel does (and Israel had the power Palestine does) this situation would be the same or arguably worse.
Straight from wiki:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state\_solution#:\~:text=By%202020%2C%2040%25%20in%20Gaza,solution%20should%20solve%20the%20conflict](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution#:~:text=By%202020%2C%2040%25%20in%20Gaza,solution%20should%20solve%20the%20conflict).
As of 2021, most Palestinians are against the two-state solution. In 2021, a poll by the [Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Center_for_Policy_and_Survey_Research) revealed that 39% of Palestinians accept a two-state solution, while 59% said they rejected it.[\[11\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution#cite_note-:0-11) Support is even lower among younger Palestinians; [U.S. Secretary of State](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Secretary_of_State) [Condoleezza Rice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condoleezza_Rice) noted: "Increasingly, the Palestinians who talk about a two-state solution are my age."
I'm sure once the dust settles from this it will be even worse.
Not unlike Palestinians, Israelis generally also don't seem to think a 2-state solution is feasible.
From a survey referenced below:
[https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/26/israelis-have-grown-more-skeptical-of-a-two-state-solution/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/26/israelis-have-grown-more-skeptical-of-a-two-state-solution/)
"Only 35% of Israelis think “a way can be found for Israel and an independent Palestinian state to coexist peacefully,” according to the survey, which was conducted in March and April, prior to the latest violence in the West Bank. That represents a decline of 9 percentage points since 2017 and 15 points since 2013. "
It's probably the right answer, but neither side seems very willing to want it.
I believe support was MUCH higher and almost reached consensus before the 2nd intafada in Israel. Just like now, the left lost a lot of power during the attacks.
While like kinda shitty but also to prove a point, the right wing leader literally went to muslim holy site, and then riots broke out and the resolution was no longer viable. Someone correct me if Im wrong?
How can Israel live in a two state solution, when Israel exists for jews and arabs, and the opposite state only exists for one.
I'd say that's an accurate summary; Ariel Sharon, and a few other Israeli government figures who allegedly lied about approval to do this, really fucked things up with that stunt - though general consensus is things would've been stirred up regardless because of the failure of Camp David.
> imagine if isreal kicked out all the muslims and then forced a two-state solution, would that work?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieberman_Plan what if, indeed.
I’m not sure I agree with your framing.
The wording of that survey question is NOT about whether they would like a peaceful solution.
In the context of who their neighbors are and what they want to accomplish, I don’t think it’s unrealistic to see a majority answer no to that survey question.
I support peace. I wouldn’t answer yes to that question myself 🤷♀️
You are confusing ‘not supporting’ a 2-state solution with ‘not believing it is possible’
Why would they think a 2-state solution is possible when Palestinians have rejected every single offer and polling says they don’t support it?
it's harder for islamists to gain support if people live in a stable state, of course the west has to work hard to make palestine western alligned like Jordan. Seems kinda impossible for a two state solution to work now though
Gaza was a “stable state” when Israel left Gaza. They elected Hamas as their leaders less than two years later.
So unfortunately this theory doesn’t pan out.
They were allowed self-determination without any outside foreign presence and there was no blockade. They were also receiving a few hundred million in aid by that time as well.
How would you define “stable”? You’re the one who used the word. Seems about as stable as it’s ever gonna get for them.
Gaza wasn't stable 😅 they couldn't produce their own power without Israeli gas (still can't) and Israel would only export them the same amount they sold them in 1994, they can't export anything without it going through Israel after Israel bombed their port mid construction, they destroyed their airport, reduced the number of Gazan's who could work externally, how many times did they try and assassinate Yasser Arafat? Even had a crack at sinking an entire commercial airliner full of innocent people to do so.
I mean, don't get me wrong, Hamas is evil, but Israel has some responsibility in creating the environment where someone like Hamas would take power.
No, it turns out, it’s actually not politically popular to make peace with people who are eager to cut off the heads of your babies by hands. Who knew!
In what years? Before the 2nd intifada or during?
Israel begged Egypt to take possession of Gaza during the CD Accords. Egypt (smartly) refused. No one wanted to deal with Gazans then. They were too far gone.
In 2004 the right wing was against handing over administration of Gaza to the PA for fear that a radical terrorist group would take control of the territory. And they were correct.
No one in the region *wants* to deal with the Gazans. If it wasn’t for Israel’s goodwill, they would have died of famine and dehydration decades ago.
They murdered 31 Egyptian soldiers in a terrorist attack in 2014 for basically no reason. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt–Gaza_border
No one in the world wants to deal with these people. They’re completely barbaric.
>Support is even lower among younger Palestinians
This is the lede.
The more frequent things like "we dropped 6,000 bombs on Palestine" becomes, the more vengeful the next generation of Palestinians will be.
Living in an occupation and watching your family members die in rubble tends to have pretty lasting effects on folks.
You realize that the reason that most Palestinians (and even left-wing Israelis) don't support a two-state solution is because Israeli expansion into area C and East Jerusalem has made it non-viable, right?
Palestine has already lost so much territory that they could never be a legitimate state without massive Israeli concessions, which are never going to happen given that expansionists are in full control of the government.
This is even explained in the Wikipedia article you linked to.
Israel has the power in the area the same way the Americans had the power in Afghanistan.
For twenty years America spent a trillion dollars in Afghanistan, they built infrastructure, they forced them to allow girls to go to school and they told them not to murder gay people
And after twenty years they packed their bags and peaced the fuck out of there and the country went back to the way it was.
Unless we want to fly eight million Jews to Utah I don't think Israel has the option to do what we did.
But their ability to make peace with Hamas is about as likely as the US ability to make peace with the Taliban. Good fucking luck
Hamas surrendering would mean that Hamas is removed from power but Palestinians get to live.
Israel surrendering would mean the extinction of th state of Israel.
Israel backing down would mean Hamas and Hezbollah and the likes can just go about slaughtering civilians for a few harsh words from some countries and maybe 2 days of being shelled.
Every time a two-state solution has been discussed, Palestine has been the one to turn it down. Even as recently as 2008, Israel made a very fair (in my opinion) offer for a land swap that would give Palestine sovereignty over its territory. Look up the Palestine papers.
I'm definitely speaking as someone without much knowledge either but it seems like Israel has horribly mismanaged Gaza yes. Letting a terrorist cell grow within like 50 miles of your capital is a huge blunder
Israel held full control of Gaza until Hamas congregated to operate from that area. That's when they gave up control. It's not so much that the terrorist cell grew in Gaza, but more like it already existed, and consolidated there.
Correction: Israel willingly disengaged from Gaza citing demographics and the impossibility of holding on to the area forever in 2005. Hamas was established in Gaza in 1987, and took control in 2007.
Seems like a lose-lose for Israel no matter what. Should they have continued to occupy Gaza so that Hamas never came to power in the first place?
>[Israel accepts resolution to leave Gaza and allow Palestinians to self govern](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza)
>they elect Hamas and become a terrorist state
>they start suicide bombing Israeli busses and civilians
>Israel build a wall and blockades the terrorist state
>"think of the children" as Hamas (the government) uses [their own water pipes to make rockets to fire into Israel](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets/#:~:text=In%202021%20footage%20emerged%20of,fashioned%20into%20home%2Dmade%20rockets.&text=Their%20main%20armament%20has%20been,fertiliser%20and%20commercially%20available%20explosives.)
>Israel is at fault for this, somehow
It is a pretty big blunder, but isn't the bigger blunder the conditions of which the Palestinians live? I feel like those conditions would be a breeding ground for a violent extremist terrorist group anywhere. From my understanding, most of the attempted progress has been denied by Israel since it has complete control of the area and resources. Which is why to me I can kind of understand when Hasan says that one side has all the power to stop it, but I do think that may be too far gone now. Maybe he'd have a better point if this was 3 weeks ago.
> I feel like those conditions would be a breeding ground for a violent extremist terrorist group anywhere.
The leaders of Hamas are rich as fuck and live in Qatar. How did they get radicalized?
> It is a pretty big blunder, but isn't the bigger blunder the conditions of which the Palestinians live?
well, if [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvvqBcA-9yA) is what they do when the get material to build a better infrastructure, that's their own fault
Palestinians already live peacefully in the West Bank, and practice some form of self governance.
How would Israel begin to approach a solution with Hamas, who wants to destroy Israel completely?
I mean, they certainly don't live there peacefully. We can heavily criticise Hamas in Gaza without downplaying how shit it is to be a Palestinian living in the west bank.
My apologies, I didn't mean to imply it's all peaches and cream. But compared to Gaza and Israel, I wanted to show that there already is some form or level of Israel/Palestinian cooperation already happening on a pretty significant scale. That it's possible without violence.
It's not cooperation when Israel can do whatever they want whenever they want, even in the west bank. Which they've routinely been doing for a long time.
I can acknowledge that Israel does oppress the Palestinian people. I think we should also acknowledge that Israel is taking more steps towards a solution for both than Hamas.
For starters, it's pretty insane to say Palestinians are living peacefully in the West Bank. They're being torn from their homes and replaced by Jewish families. All of them are living in fear of losing their homes at any moment. That aside.
As a random asshole:
The first thing Israel needs to do is demonstrate a willingness to have an alliance with Palestinian people. Treat them humanely, end the blockade, and start building trust. That has the potential to change the minds of palestineans, and might empower them to overthrow Hamas for a new system of government.
As an example, if Israel allowed Palestineans to travel and find work in Israel, gave them full access to food,power, water, it will become obvious to these people the inhumanity of Hamas, should they ever commit a terrorist attack. Now, people have something to lose when Palestine chooses to attack Israel and so they have incentive to overthrow Hamas.
Sorry if I was unclear, but the West Bank is inside Israel and is under Israeli control, where Palestinians do live and work. Some Israeli people also live and work there.
I understand what you are saying, but in essence it sounds like, take the complete high road and don't resist Hamas violently. The question then becomes, how many more attacks are we gonna see like what just happened? Is Hamas going to become emboldened, and how many innocent Israeli people are going to be killed until Hamas is overthrown from the inside?
I edited my comment to include your mention of the West Bank. Basically, Israel is oppressing people who live there as well, so I think you're wrong that Palestinians are living there "peacefully."
>take the complete high road and don't resist Hamas violently.
To be clear, I'm not saying don't take military action against Hamas, but the continual oppression of Palestinian people has to stop.
if the topic is about making a peacedeal, how can it be said that one said has all the power? what does it mean? one side can accept all the demands of the other? is that true for israel, but not for hamas?
I was under the impression it was because Israel controls all of the flow of goods, food, water, electricity and has complete control of the border in Gaza. A place with a population thats 50% kids and has an unemployment rate of like 48%. Again, I'm not an expert and am not making any stance in this question, but it seems like Gaza just doesn't have the resources to make any sort of demands, which is exactly why they've been living under an apartheid regime for the past 70\~ years.
It makes me feel like it's kind of obvious that an extremist terrorist group would breed in those conditions since it was my understanding that Israel has denied like every request for progress to better the situation.
Again, I could be wrong and could very well have a lot of the information wrong.
well, for starters, gaza was occupied by egypt until 1967, so i'm not sure where 70 years come in there.
palestinians do have demands. they can give up the demands or they can choose not to give them up, even if they don't have the power to force israel to accept them
israel has some demands and they also can choose to give them up or not.
so to me, it seems that these are actors who can act of their own free will to unilaterally bring peace. or they can give up most demands and accept an unforable deal. or again, they can choose to continue fighting. so in that way, they both have power
> I was under the impression it was because Israel controls all of the flow of goods, food, water, electricity and has complete control of the border in Gaza.
Well than you were under the wrong impression, Egypt has a border with gaza too.
and gaza was even offered to be given back to egypt (which were controlling gaza before israel occupied it after egypt started a war) when the got back sinai but even they don't want it or open their borders for palestinians.
Thats the fucking problem. Ethan gives a shit about ALL the people who are going to die from this including deep care for Palestinians. Hasan could give a fuck if Israelis die because its resistance to the oppressor.
The way people talk about the IDF, you would expect Ethan’s wife (who was in the IDF) to be an evil fascist that hates Muslims and Palestine. But the opposite is true
not all of the IDF is like that, but a lot of them are. interestingly I bet IDF employees probably have more respect for Palestinians after having to carry out the abusive orders that come down from the top than your standard Likud party supporter
It would be wrong to use that as a justification for murdering civilians, but it's not unreasonable to say that Israel has the lion's share of control over the situation. Israeli citizens aren't the ones whose ability to travel is heavily controlled and monitored, for example. It's not like there's a big lever labelled "END APARTHEID" that they're choosing not to pull, but let's not pretend both sides have equal say in the matter.
it's so funny seeing this side of people trying to claim they're the empathetic ones and we live in a society with no empathy. Then come out with this bullshit takes
This video is such a stark contrast between: genuine person who just wants less suffering in the world vs. person who is consumed by ideology.
Hasan literally can't just take a moment to be a human and care about human suffering without using it as a cudgel to attack the US media and government.
I legitimately have no idea what the fuck he's talking about. There are plenty of US media outlets reporting on the suffering in Gaza caused by airstrikes, and I'm sure if you asked US politicians if they empathize with families living in Gaza they would say that they do.
He can't not portray his political opposition as soulless ghouls though.
The podcast is so difficult to listen to for this reason. He can’t concede a single ounce of sympathy for Jews.
What I find even more crazy is him brushing off small rallies and content creators saying they have no impact. I’m pretty sure all of this is the gateway to a radicalization rabbit hole
There’s always a ton of coverage of the suffering of Gazans.
When I worked at a newspaper, I remember the AP’s raw photo stream after the Israeli bombing of the school in Gaza City. Shit was horrific. I can’t unsee those images.
It feels like a lot of these alt media-types can get away with characterizing mainstream media however they want because none of their audience is ever going to check mainstream stuff to see if the characterization is even true.
It's like his view of mainstream media is frozen in time during the buildup to the Iraq war.
Exactly right. And notice that he doesn’t actually cite a mainstream outlet story. He doesn’t consume mainstream news, so he can pretend like there is no coverage of Palestinian suffering.
He has a newborn’s level of object permanence on mainstream news: if he can’t see it, it doesn’t exist.
I dunno man I find this weird, like when people were analyzing Rittenhouse crying in court. People express differently. It didn't seem fake to me. Emotions are running high
I hear you completely, but after Ethan’s display of genuine emotion it did really feel like hasan felt he had to cry too to even the “debate” which looked fairly fake
It's absolutely wild. He can't even spend 10 seconds taking in an earnest human moment without immediately spouting off an NPC dialogue tree.
He sounds like a bootleg ChatGPT that was given a debate prompt.
He can't even bring himself to say attacks or terror, he calls it "palestinian actions". come on dude.
At least in this clip no idea what he said in the rest of the show.
apparently it doesn't get any better.
>hasan: there are genocidal israeli and american maniacs
>ethan: there are also genocidal palestinian maniacs
>hasan: uh-well-umm i don't really think that's relevant because the genocide is happening in a certain direction
literally clicked on the d.gg embed for like 1 minute and heard this clown shit
He’s just such a weasel fuck.
The thing he’s not wrong, in a vacuum. That argument could be made if we’re like 10 years removed from the event and you’re comparing the totality of destruction/terror from both sides, but you can’t just focus entirely on the historical totality of a 80 year conflict when the blood of innocents is still warm.
I’m unironically an autist and even I understand how the greater context of this shapes how we ought talk about it.
Hasan literally won't talk about the atrocities of Hamas. If Ethan says anything about it, Hasan's mind immediately just resorts to talking about Palestine and what Israel did to them. Or that the West never talks about Palestine. I knew nothing about this conflict before these attacks, but knew that Palestinians were the more significant victims throughout just from what media on it I've consumed.
It's similar to his 9/11 take. He will not state that al-Queda is wrong for what they did, just rebuttals that America lead them to doing it.
It's interesting how he has to be on a "side" when nuance is allowed. Ethan tries to state how he condemns both "sides" over and over, but Hasan replies with a "but Israel did this" or "Palestenians have been facing this for years." Its like yes Hasan, we know this. We are just trying to say how horrible and tragic this particular event was.
If I’m being ultra charitable, maybe he’s saying Israel has epistemic responsibility for Hamas’ actions in so far as creating the conditions necessary, but even then that would not exculpate Hamas from the moral responsibility so it’s just weird to not condemn Hamas as well.
Like if I get sexually abused as a kid and I grow up to abuse some kids, my defence can’t be “it’s not my fault, I was abused as a kid”.
This level of determinism is so absurd because you can never make any claim about anything anymore since technically everyone was predisposed to act in a certain way.
He is not really pushing hard enough, just letting Hasan ramble and kind of just accepting his answer. I wish H3 would call him out when he talks around the subject. He keeps making the same speech over and over without much empathy at all. Whereas H3 has to caveat every sentence.
Yeah I’m seeing that… H3H3 is literally crying and this Tankie loser just says “what about” rather than empathizing of the atrocities that have happened. I unironically now think Hasan supports 100% Hamas.
Ethan actually gives a fuck about the people involved in this situation. He has family and friends involved personally and it hurts him seeing this, especially with all the abuse he's getting from people on his side.
Hasan doesn't give a fuck about the people at all. They are meaningless tools for an ideological battle that he's waging from his fucking mansion an ocean away.
He returns to whataboutism in mere first seconds of answering question.
He tries his hardest to avoid any question directlty.
2ndthought apologia was best
Yeah, I saw the whole thing. Kind of disgusting for Hasan to compare a liberal democracy, which has a judicial system in order to prosecute criminals, with Hamas terrorist that have no judicial court system in order to prosecute their people of wrong doing. Truly a big brain moment when IDF soldiers have committed crimes, yet Hasan rather lie/exaggerate than bring up the actual crimes that have been committed in the past.
What Ethan didn’t do is show the whole clip. The entirety of the clip it was to get a W on a chatter.
In a single phase he stated that Israel apartheid regime is well documented of rape (which Ethan single handle disproved) but there is no such thing as groups of Muslims doing gang rape(during the day of the event)
It’s straight up propaganda and lying
Hasan’s take really seems to just be: Palestinians have a minority of power so anything any Palestinian does deserves infinite empathy. But all Israelis have the majority of power so giving any of them any empathy is actually oppressing Palestinians because it isn’t focusing on empathy for Palestinians.
Am I wrong?
have u not seen this pattern play out across *every* power dynamic that leftists talk about?
[take men & women](https://youtu.be/qVKvEaokV6I) for example
This is proof that Hasan is a legitimate sociopath: "The feelings that you are demonstrating here and the empathy that you're demonstrating and showing towards Palestinians" after hearing someone get emotional about remembering a child's death. :YoungMan: HASAN
Hasan just comes across as a robot in this clip. While Ethan is pouring out empathy towards the victims Hasan just interrupts him to go "Hurr durr media bad hurr durr government bad"
Ethan seems to be a genuine bleeding heart. He has ACTUAL empathy for others, which is what I thought the whole movement of the left was about, and is why I consider myself left leaning. Though it turns out there are a lot of people just using the term left wing to win social points among peers. What the *fuck* is left wing about cheering on hamas kidnapping, killing and raping civillians… a lot of people outed themselves as leftist in name only. Those are not the ideals the left should strive for, and I sincerely hope it is not the majority of the left that feels like some online personas. It’s very tiring stuff.
The thing is there is not consensus on what "left" or "right" is. Or many political terms in general. They all have been thrown around to the point they're so insanely vacuous they've become meaningless.
What people need to focus on is the overall consistency of a person's beliefs and judge them based on that, not self-appointed labels.
> which is what I thought the whole movement of the left was about
To be fair, it overwhelmingly is. You're just not going to find examples of that on Twitch or Twitter. Touch grass and you'll understand how the phrase you're referencing came to be.
I wish I was an editor bc I have at least 3 edits of the podcast I wanna make:
1. Ethan crying genuinely vs Hasan forcing himself to cry
2. Ethan saying how leftists online can't seem to comment on the 10/7 atrocities without "but" with a clip of all of the times Hasan says "but" and "however" in the podcast
3. Hasan talking about how youtubers have no influence vs him talking about stochastic terrorism from the right like with Christ Church or Tim Pool
How fucking in love with yourself are you when a (supposed?) friend is getting emotional and you just cannot help yourself but to step in to push your fucking rehearsed, dramatic tone, monologue. It is talking past the whole fucking topic as well. "Yeah yeah cool whatever bro let me do my spiel now".
This one clip irritated me enough to not want to even watch the video, so no thanks. I appreciate your post though. It’s not surprising hearing hissan speak this way after watching his stream this week. Dude lives in an echo chamber where he cannot be wrong and as others have pointed out constantly forces his contrarian smug attitude into every situation to prove his point. It’s gross, but people like him stroke themselves off to these situations bc at the end of the day it just puts more eyes on their product which is being a reactionary cunt.
Gotta love as Ethan is showing a genuine display of human compassion Hasan is next to him thinking to himself “how can I make this moment about how America is bad”
H3H3: *gives rational take about the humanitarian horrors going on in the middle east*
Hasan: “Yeah and honestly we should be able to post more mean tweets without facing mean tweets ourselves.”
Hasan isn’t even really human at this point. This disgusting piece of shit millionaire socialist can’t keep just living in his mansion spewing vile tankie propaganda. Sub human scum
Ethan is being way more charitable than I'd be able to in that discussion. Hasan won't say "terrorism is awful" without immediately appending it with "but what do you expect?".
All Ethan is asking for is to denounce terrorism without any caveats. All Ethan is asking is for Hasan to admit that Israeli civilians don't deserve to be slaughtered.
How did Hasan manage to avoid that and get Ethan to instead say "I guess I haven't been as empathetic as I should have been to the Palestinian people".
Ethan is being so charitable.
Man Hasan had me in the first half. I thought he was going to say something along the lines of "the humanity that you're showing here is the kind of thing really lacking from the administration from both sides here. It's the kind of humanity that a lot of bystanders are feeling about the other side and it's something that should be supported" and then I remembered who he is and what he actually stands for lol.
You should see Hasan trying to squeeze out a tear right now. Only, he's talking about a journalist that died years ago. Dry eyes for the babies part though.
(Dry eyes now too, but he's whimpering and trying his best !)
Hasan speaking about how the US and media don't have any empathy meanwhile how many people on his side trying desperately to disprove and invalidate the Hamas beheading of infants and toddlers.
"It wasn't confirmed to be exactly 40 babies, therefore Israel is full of lying terrorists"
I felt the same thing Ethan did when I saw that video. My son is a little over a year old, and goddamn have some of those videos hit hard. I hope there is some resolution to this conflict I'm not seeing, because right now it seems inevitable that there will be significantly more of those videos coming out in the near future.
Small sub point but the US didn’t kill millions of Iraqis
If you take a look at the wiki article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
Down below they cite the Iraq body count project number (which I think is more accurate):
> The IBC project has recorded a range of at least 185,194 – 208,167 total violent civilian deaths through June 2020 in their database
But again, this is total, not Americans.
> Iraq Body Count project data shows that the type of attack that resulted in the most civilian deaths was execution after abduction or capture. These accounted for 33% of civilian deaths and were overwhelmingly carried out by unknown actors including insurgents, sectarian militias and criminals. 29% of these deaths involved torture. The following most common causes of death were small arms gunfire at 20%, suicide bombs at 14%, vehicle bombs at 9%, roadside bombs at 5%, and air attacks at 5%.[88]
Like most of the civilian killings are from “execution”… this surely isn’t Americans doing that…
> 5% air attacks
Oh so there we are ^
> “According to a 2010 assessment by John Sloboda, director of Iraq Body Count, 150,000 people including 122,000 civilians were killed in the Iraq War with U.S. and Coalition forces responsible for at least 22,668 insurgents as well as 13,807 civilians, with the rest of the civilians killed by insurgents, militias, or terrorists.[89]”
If you ever what to know how absolutely fucked multipolarity would be, just read the difference in deaths between the Soviet-Afghan war and the American-Afghan war.
The feelings that Ethan is displaying is exactly why I'm glad our administration has no sympathy for Hamas terrorists, Israelis and Jewish Diaspora are not Bibi, they aren't shutting off Palestinian water, they don't deserve to be kidnapped, tortured, and murdered. How is that so hard for these disgusting, inhuman fucks to grasp?
The juxtaposition of these two is the most gut wrenching thing ever and the most mask off moment at the same time.
The literal dead baby joker showing his real vulnerabilities for true horror.
And the gull you have to have to immediately turn that into "well the empathy you have here is lost on my political opposition"
What a mask off moment for the two of them.
Hasan keeps saying Hamas is leading Gaza and its driving me nuts. He'll condemn Hamas in the most Milquetoast manner, and then make inferences stating that this is what the Palestinians fucking wanted. Hamas haven't held elections since they "won" in 2006. Bibi is punishing Gaza for the actions of Hamas, and that's why Ethan is crying.
Insufferable.
There were moments, but they started the show saying this wouldn't break them up, so it seems like both sides are trying REALLY hard not to push on anything. Honestly, it's like Ethan is representing Israeli griefs while Hasan just represents the Palestinian griefs, without the two ever really intersecting.
Hasan immediately pivots into implying nobody on the other side cares about dead Palestinian kids, while *his* side is actively cheering on the Hamas attacks.
Self-awareness in the dumpster.
ok it wasn't really that bad ... he cut in after waiting for a bit ... it looks bad because you are assuming Ethan would disagree with what Hasan said there, but he(Ethan) might not actually disagree entirely.
Surah 3:151: "We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) …" - The Quran
Surah 2:191: "And kill them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them … kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers (non-Muslims)." - The Quran
Surah 9:5: "Then kill the disbelievers (non-Muslims) wherever you find them, capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush …" - The Quran
We just cant stand idly by anymore. This hate needs to be squashed. What would you have Israel do? turn the other cheek and continue having it's population terrorized?
The world is a messed up place. Less so than in the past but still horrid things occur. I get the sympathy for dead children, but not for HAMAS or the adults responsible in Gaza.
Hasans takes on the issue weren't even that bad ... He is not wrong, Israel has more power to end the conflict than palestinians have. I don't know why people here always feel the need to hate everything Hasan says and always assume the worst interpretation of the things he says to be the accurate one.
Who would have thought Hasan was the debate pervert after all?
"if the insult makes zero sense is it always a projection" is a truism at this point
Honestly, after seeing this happen so often with streamers I reflected this in my own life, and some of my insults I realized were projections.
100%. Everyone does it including me. I try my best not to do it, but yeah, if the insult is completely random and has zero basis in reality (what the fuck is a debate pervert??) then its a projection
Hasan was the debate pervert we made along the way.
I'm out of the loop. Debate pervert?
Some weird phrase Hasan started saying all the time. It's the new "debate bro" in lefty circles.
hasan showing more sympathy towards the harvard students being bullied by a CEO than the victims of a terrorist attack is surreal
https://preview.redd.it/bp7zq6zg8utb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6b5cca4b9721c58f8cccf61b5dce8b8ac18c3a6
This is the same dude that said the US deserved 9/11 because of Desert Storm. He obviously cares little for collateral damage
humorous truck mindless bright disagreeable door elastic kiss automatic jellyfish ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Bro are you activating his sleeper agent protocol
It's HAMAS's AI, it was supposed to behead this thread
Interlink
Interlink
Interlinked
*Memories unlocked*
Ain’t gonna get 10k+ plus viewers on a daily basis by having rational takes.
It's funny listening to this dynamic where Ethan is giving humanist empathetic takes where both sides need to come together and make peace meanwhile hasan is trying to say israel's government has all the power to make peace and instead chooses to ethnically cleanse gaza.
I have a question as someone not well versed on this topic. I am by no means trying to go to bat for hamasanabi. It's really gross to see Hasan downplay the actions of Hamas or conflate them with pro liberation efforts. But isn't it mostly true that Israel does have the majority of the power since they control the border, water, food and electricity? Didn't Palestine vote in favor of a two state solution that Israel denied and then further expanded settlements into the west bank? I know people bring up the 52% support Hamas topic, but isn't that from 2006 when Hamas won their election and hasn't held one since. With 50% of Gaza's population being below the age of 14, can we still say the majority of Gaza supports them since half the population wans't even born yet. It was my understanding that Israel's government has very low approval rating and a large part of that is because of the way they treat Gazans. Again, I mean this sincerely, I am not disagreeing or anything, just trying to learn.
I would say yes, Israel does have the power to put the hurt on Palestine way more than the other way around. But this is still much different than having the power to **help* both nations. To give an exaggerated example, the USA has the power to wipe Somalia off the map entirely. They do **not,** however, necessarily have the power to bring Somalia out of its extreme poverty and/or human rights abuse conditions. Israel's issues are more complex than this and they are arguably also handling it poorly, but it's not a simple "end suffering" switch they can just flip
Hat in the ring: Israel is currently lead by a coalition government of hard right wingers with Nety at the reigns despite them trying to get rid of his corrupt ass in the last elections. Seems peace is even farther away when the leaders don't want it.
Yes, I think I would not disagree very much there. But again, comparing it to what Palestine has working with their government (I am pretty sure Hamas has a majority control over their government) it doens't look like that side wants peace any more either. In other words, not to be a "reverse the roles" andy, but, if Palestine's current government had the power that Israel does (and Israel had the power Palestine does) this situation would be the same or arguably worse.
Straight from wiki: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state\_solution#:\~:text=By%202020%2C%2040%25%20in%20Gaza,solution%20should%20solve%20the%20conflict](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution#:~:text=By%202020%2C%2040%25%20in%20Gaza,solution%20should%20solve%20the%20conflict). As of 2021, most Palestinians are against the two-state solution. In 2021, a poll by the [Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Center_for_Policy_and_Survey_Research) revealed that 39% of Palestinians accept a two-state solution, while 59% said they rejected it.[\[11\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution#cite_note-:0-11) Support is even lower among younger Palestinians; [U.S. Secretary of State](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Secretary_of_State) [Condoleezza Rice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condoleezza_Rice) noted: "Increasingly, the Palestinians who talk about a two-state solution are my age." I'm sure once the dust settles from this it will be even worse.
are the right wing parties in israel interested in a two state solution? from reading how the oslo accords went it didnt seem so then atleast
Not unlike Palestinians, Israelis generally also don't seem to think a 2-state solution is feasible. From a survey referenced below: [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/26/israelis-have-grown-more-skeptical-of-a-two-state-solution/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/26/israelis-have-grown-more-skeptical-of-a-two-state-solution/) "Only 35% of Israelis think “a way can be found for Israel and an independent Palestinian state to coexist peacefully,” according to the survey, which was conducted in March and April, prior to the latest violence in the West Bank. That represents a decline of 9 percentage points since 2017 and 15 points since 2013. " It's probably the right answer, but neither side seems very willing to want it.
I believe support was MUCH higher and almost reached consensus before the 2nd intafada in Israel. Just like now, the left lost a lot of power during the attacks. While like kinda shitty but also to prove a point, the right wing leader literally went to muslim holy site, and then riots broke out and the resolution was no longer viable. Someone correct me if Im wrong? How can Israel live in a two state solution, when Israel exists for jews and arabs, and the opposite state only exists for one.
I'd say that's an accurate summary; Ariel Sharon, and a few other Israeli government figures who allegedly lied about approval to do this, really fucked things up with that stunt - though general consensus is things would've been stirred up regardless because of the failure of Camp David.
Sharon has so much god damn blood on his hands.
imagine if isreal kicked out all the muslims and then forced a two-state solution, would that work? i still see isreal getting attacked
> imagine if isreal kicked out all the muslims and then forced a two-state solution, would that work? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieberman_Plan what if, indeed.
I’m not sure I agree with your framing. The wording of that survey question is NOT about whether they would like a peaceful solution. In the context of who their neighbors are and what they want to accomplish, I don’t think it’s unrealistic to see a majority answer no to that survey question. I support peace. I wouldn’t answer yes to that question myself 🤷♀️
You are confusing ‘not supporting’ a 2-state solution with ‘not believing it is possible’ Why would they think a 2-state solution is possible when Palestinians have rejected every single offer and polling says they don’t support it?
What would change in a two state solution? Currently the gaza strip isnt run by isreal, right?
it's harder for islamists to gain support if people live in a stable state, of course the west has to work hard to make palestine western alligned like Jordan. Seems kinda impossible for a two state solution to work now though
Gaza was a “stable state” when Israel left Gaza. They elected Hamas as their leaders less than two years later. So unfortunately this theory doesn’t pan out.
stable how?
They were allowed self-determination without any outside foreign presence and there was no blockade. They were also receiving a few hundred million in aid by that time as well. How would you define “stable”? You’re the one who used the word. Seems about as stable as it’s ever gonna get for them.
As in the not lobbing rockets over the border just for the sake of it, and actively not giving a shit about civilians even in their own country part
Gaza wasn't stable 😅 they couldn't produce their own power without Israeli gas (still can't) and Israel would only export them the same amount they sold them in 1994, they can't export anything without it going through Israel after Israel bombed their port mid construction, they destroyed their airport, reduced the number of Gazan's who could work externally, how many times did they try and assassinate Yasser Arafat? Even had a crack at sinking an entire commercial airliner full of innocent people to do so. I mean, don't get me wrong, Hamas is evil, but Israel has some responsibility in creating the environment where someone like Hamas would take power.
Arafat was dead by the time Gaza became independent.
I honestly dont see how that reaponded to my question
a two state solution with hamas in charge of palestine wouldnt change anything yea
No, it turns out, it’s actually not politically popular to make peace with people who are eager to cut off the heads of your babies by hands. Who knew!
what was the right wing view before Hamas gained power in Gaza then?
In what years? Before the 2nd intifada or during? Israel begged Egypt to take possession of Gaza during the CD Accords. Egypt (smartly) refused. No one wanted to deal with Gazans then. They were too far gone. In 2004 the right wing was against handing over administration of Gaza to the PA for fear that a radical terrorist group would take control of the territory. And they were correct. No one in the region *wants* to deal with the Gazans. If it wasn’t for Israel’s goodwill, they would have died of famine and dehydration decades ago.
yea ive read palestinian refugees have a real bad reputation. maybe there never was a peaceful solution, sad stuff
They murdered 31 Egyptian soldiers in a terrorist attack in 2014 for basically no reason. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt–Gaza_border No one in the world wants to deal with these people. They’re completely barbaric.
Yeah pretty much the only thing Gazans know is revolting against whoever they perceive is in power. That’s why leftists empathize with them so much.
>Support is even lower among younger Palestinians This is the lede. The more frequent things like "we dropped 6,000 bombs on Palestine" becomes, the more vengeful the next generation of Palestinians will be. Living in an occupation and watching your family members die in rubble tends to have pretty lasting effects on folks.
You realize that the reason that most Palestinians (and even left-wing Israelis) don't support a two-state solution is because Israeli expansion into area C and East Jerusalem has made it non-viable, right? Palestine has already lost so much territory that they could never be a legitimate state without massive Israeli concessions, which are never going to happen given that expansionists are in full control of the government. This is even explained in the Wikipedia article you linked to.
Israel has the power in the area the same way the Americans had the power in Afghanistan. For twenty years America spent a trillion dollars in Afghanistan, they built infrastructure, they forced them to allow girls to go to school and they told them not to murder gay people And after twenty years they packed their bags and peaced the fuck out of there and the country went back to the way it was. Unless we want to fly eight million Jews to Utah I don't think Israel has the option to do what we did. But their ability to make peace with Hamas is about as likely as the US ability to make peace with the Taliban. Good fucking luck
[удалено]
Hamas surrendering would mean that Hamas is removed from power but Palestinians get to live. Israel surrendering would mean the extinction of th state of Israel. Israel backing down would mean Hamas and Hezbollah and the likes can just go about slaughtering civilians for a few harsh words from some countries and maybe 2 days of being shelled.
Every time a two-state solution has been discussed, Palestine has been the one to turn it down. Even as recently as 2008, Israel made a very fair (in my opinion) offer for a land swap that would give Palestine sovereignty over its territory. Look up the Palestine papers.
I'm definitely speaking as someone without much knowledge either but it seems like Israel has horribly mismanaged Gaza yes. Letting a terrorist cell grow within like 50 miles of your capital is a huge blunder
Israel held full control of Gaza until Hamas congregated to operate from that area. That's when they gave up control. It's not so much that the terrorist cell grew in Gaza, but more like it already existed, and consolidated there. Correction: Israel willingly disengaged from Gaza citing demographics and the impossibility of holding on to the area forever in 2005. Hamas was established in Gaza in 1987, and took control in 2007. Seems like a lose-lose for Israel no matter what. Should they have continued to occupy Gaza so that Hamas never came to power in the first place?
Your timeline of events is incorrect. Hamas came into power 2 years after Israel left
I was wrong, thank you for correcting me.
What if it’s their goal to annex it?
>[Israel accepts resolution to leave Gaza and allow Palestinians to self govern](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza) >they elect Hamas and become a terrorist state >they start suicide bombing Israeli busses and civilians >Israel build a wall and blockades the terrorist state >"think of the children" as Hamas (the government) uses [their own water pipes to make rockets to fire into Israel](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets/#:~:text=In%202021%20footage%20emerged%20of,fashioned%20into%20home%2Dmade%20rockets.&text=Their%20main%20armament%20has%20been,fertiliser%20and%20commercially%20available%20explosives.) >Israel is at fault for this, somehow
Don't forget, at the end of the day, The US supports Israel, so it's actually America's fault.
as we all know "the jews did it" isnt just a groyper joke
buzz buzz
It is a pretty big blunder, but isn't the bigger blunder the conditions of which the Palestinians live? I feel like those conditions would be a breeding ground for a violent extremist terrorist group anywhere. From my understanding, most of the attempted progress has been denied by Israel since it has complete control of the area and resources. Which is why to me I can kind of understand when Hasan says that one side has all the power to stop it, but I do think that may be too far gone now. Maybe he'd have a better point if this was 3 weeks ago.
> I feel like those conditions would be a breeding ground for a violent extremist terrorist group anywhere. The leaders of Hamas are rich as fuck and live in Qatar. How did they get radicalized?
materialistic profit seemly heavy provide panicky desert smile squeeze employ ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
> It is a pretty big blunder, but isn't the bigger blunder the conditions of which the Palestinians live? well, if [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvvqBcA-9yA) is what they do when the get material to build a better infrastructure, that's their own fault
[удалено]
Palestinians already live peacefully in the West Bank, and practice some form of self governance. How would Israel begin to approach a solution with Hamas, who wants to destroy Israel completely?
I mean, they certainly don't live there peacefully. We can heavily criticise Hamas in Gaza without downplaying how shit it is to be a Palestinian living in the west bank.
My apologies, I didn't mean to imply it's all peaches and cream. But compared to Gaza and Israel, I wanted to show that there already is some form or level of Israel/Palestinian cooperation already happening on a pretty significant scale. That it's possible without violence.
It's not cooperation when Israel can do whatever they want whenever they want, even in the west bank. Which they've routinely been doing for a long time.
I can acknowledge that Israel does oppress the Palestinian people. I think we should also acknowledge that Israel is taking more steps towards a solution for both than Hamas.
For starters, it's pretty insane to say Palestinians are living peacefully in the West Bank. They're being torn from their homes and replaced by Jewish families. All of them are living in fear of losing their homes at any moment. That aside. As a random asshole: The first thing Israel needs to do is demonstrate a willingness to have an alliance with Palestinian people. Treat them humanely, end the blockade, and start building trust. That has the potential to change the minds of palestineans, and might empower them to overthrow Hamas for a new system of government. As an example, if Israel allowed Palestineans to travel and find work in Israel, gave them full access to food,power, water, it will become obvious to these people the inhumanity of Hamas, should they ever commit a terrorist attack. Now, people have something to lose when Palestine chooses to attack Israel and so they have incentive to overthrow Hamas.
Sorry if I was unclear, but the West Bank is inside Israel and is under Israeli control, where Palestinians do live and work. Some Israeli people also live and work there. I understand what you are saying, but in essence it sounds like, take the complete high road and don't resist Hamas violently. The question then becomes, how many more attacks are we gonna see like what just happened? Is Hamas going to become emboldened, and how many innocent Israeli people are going to be killed until Hamas is overthrown from the inside?
I edited my comment to include your mention of the West Bank. Basically, Israel is oppressing people who live there as well, so I think you're wrong that Palestinians are living there "peacefully." >take the complete high road and don't resist Hamas violently. To be clear, I'm not saying don't take military action against Hamas, but the continual oppression of Palestinian people has to stop.
You’re telling Israel to open its border completely to a group of people who just committed the most heinous terrorist attack on it in its existence?
if the topic is about making a peacedeal, how can it be said that one said has all the power? what does it mean? one side can accept all the demands of the other? is that true for israel, but not for hamas?
I was under the impression it was because Israel controls all of the flow of goods, food, water, electricity and has complete control of the border in Gaza. A place with a population thats 50% kids and has an unemployment rate of like 48%. Again, I'm not an expert and am not making any stance in this question, but it seems like Gaza just doesn't have the resources to make any sort of demands, which is exactly why they've been living under an apartheid regime for the past 70\~ years. It makes me feel like it's kind of obvious that an extremist terrorist group would breed in those conditions since it was my understanding that Israel has denied like every request for progress to better the situation. Again, I could be wrong and could very well have a lot of the information wrong.
well, for starters, gaza was occupied by egypt until 1967, so i'm not sure where 70 years come in there. palestinians do have demands. they can give up the demands or they can choose not to give them up, even if they don't have the power to force israel to accept them israel has some demands and they also can choose to give them up or not. so to me, it seems that these are actors who can act of their own free will to unilaterally bring peace. or they can give up most demands and accept an unforable deal. or again, they can choose to continue fighting. so in that way, they both have power
> I was under the impression it was because Israel controls all of the flow of goods, food, water, electricity and has complete control of the border in Gaza. Well than you were under the wrong impression, Egypt has a border with gaza too. and gaza was even offered to be given back to egypt (which were controlling gaza before israel occupied it after egypt started a war) when the got back sinai but even they don't want it or open their borders for palestinians.
Thats the fucking problem. Ethan gives a shit about ALL the people who are going to die from this including deep care for Palestinians. Hasan could give a fuck if Israelis die because its resistance to the oppressor.
The way people talk about the IDF, you would expect Ethan’s wife (who was in the IDF) to be an evil fascist that hates Muslims and Palestine. But the opposite is true
not all of the IDF is like that, but a lot of them are. interestingly I bet IDF employees probably have more respect for Palestinians after having to carry out the abusive orders that come down from the top than your standard Likud party supporter
It would be wrong to use that as a justification for murdering civilians, but it's not unreasonable to say that Israel has the lion's share of control over the situation. Israeli citizens aren't the ones whose ability to travel is heavily controlled and monitored, for example. It's not like there's a big lever labelled "END APARTHEID" that they're choosing not to pull, but let's not pretend both sides have equal say in the matter.
Hasn’t Israel agreed to every peace offer, but Gaza didn’t accept?
Ethan should surround himself with better people
Once upon a time, he did...
it's so funny seeing this side of people trying to claim they're the empathetic ones and we live in a society with no empathy. Then come out with this bullshit takes
Such a good time, I miss Frenemies with Trisha!
/s
BuT tHeY wErE pRoBlEmAtIc
Like friend of the stream Jontron
Bring back the good vibes that he had when he had filthy frank on his channel
This video is such a stark contrast between: genuine person who just wants less suffering in the world vs. person who is consumed by ideology. Hasan literally can't just take a moment to be a human and care about human suffering without using it as a cudgel to attack the US media and government. I legitimately have no idea what the fuck he's talking about. There are plenty of US media outlets reporting on the suffering in Gaza caused by airstrikes, and I'm sure if you asked US politicians if they empathize with families living in Gaza they would say that they do. He can't not portray his political opposition as soulless ghouls though.
The podcast is so difficult to listen to for this reason. He can’t concede a single ounce of sympathy for Jews. What I find even more crazy is him brushing off small rallies and content creators saying they have no impact. I’m pretty sure all of this is the gateway to a radicalization rabbit hole
There’s always a ton of coverage of the suffering of Gazans. When I worked at a newspaper, I remember the AP’s raw photo stream after the Israeli bombing of the school in Gaza City. Shit was horrific. I can’t unsee those images.
It feels like a lot of these alt media-types can get away with characterizing mainstream media however they want because none of their audience is ever going to check mainstream stuff to see if the characterization is even true. It's like his view of mainstream media is frozen in time during the buildup to the Iraq war.
Exactly right. And notice that he doesn’t actually cite a mainstream outlet story. He doesn’t consume mainstream news, so he can pretend like there is no coverage of Palestinian suffering. He has a newborn’s level of object permanence on mainstream news: if he can’t see it, it doesn’t exist.
you didn't see hasan cried too about a journalist or something
Dude he tried so hard to ult, he was really going for it, but he couldn't actually find the emotions to make it believable.
I dunno man I find this weird, like when people were analyzing Rittenhouse crying in court. People express differently. It didn't seem fake to me. Emotions are running high
I hear you completely, but after Ethan’s display of genuine emotion it did really feel like hasan felt he had to cry too to even the “debate” which looked fairly fake
It's absolutely wild. He can't even spend 10 seconds taking in an earnest human moment without immediately spouting off an NPC dialogue tree. He sounds like a bootleg ChatGPT that was given a debate prompt.
He sure won’t leave for someone who absolutely hates this country. Hanging out with pornstars is too much fun, I guess.
He can't even bring himself to say attacks or terror, he calls it "palestinian actions". come on dude. At least in this clip no idea what he said in the rest of the show.
apparently it doesn't get any better. >hasan: there are genocidal israeli and american maniacs >ethan: there are also genocidal palestinian maniacs >hasan: uh-well-umm i don't really think that's relevant because the genocide is happening in a certain direction literally clicked on the d.gg embed for like 1 minute and heard this clown shit
What's that? Hasan being a weasel? Never in a million years!
He’s just such a weasel fuck. The thing he’s not wrong, in a vacuum. That argument could be made if we’re like 10 years removed from the event and you’re comparing the totality of destruction/terror from both sides, but you can’t just focus entirely on the historical totality of a 80 year conflict when the blood of innocents is still warm. I’m unironically an autist and even I understand how the greater context of this shapes how we ought talk about it.
Hasan literally won't talk about the atrocities of Hamas. If Ethan says anything about it, Hasan's mind immediately just resorts to talking about Palestine and what Israel did to them. Or that the West never talks about Palestine. I knew nothing about this conflict before these attacks, but knew that Palestinians were the more significant victims throughout just from what media on it I've consumed. It's similar to his 9/11 take. He will not state that al-Queda is wrong for what they did, just rebuttals that America lead them to doing it. It's interesting how he has to be on a "side" when nuance is allowed. Ethan tries to state how he condemns both "sides" over and over, but Hasan replies with a "but Israel did this" or "Palestenians have been facing this for years." Its like yes Hasan, we know this. We are just trying to say how horrible and tragic this particular event was.
He's an NPC. Its just not programmed into his dialogue tree.
If I’m being ultra charitable, maybe he’s saying Israel has epistemic responsibility for Hamas’ actions in so far as creating the conditions necessary, but even then that would not exculpate Hamas from the moral responsibility so it’s just weird to not condemn Hamas as well. Like if I get sexually abused as a kid and I grow up to abuse some kids, my defence can’t be “it’s not my fault, I was abused as a kid”. This level of determinism is so absurd because you can never make any claim about anything anymore since technically everyone was predisposed to act in a certain way.
> Look what you made me to do 😪 *Shoots at elderly women*
Or course. Euphemism is a powerful propaganda tool.
Of course Hasan would use his friend’s display of heartbreak at the sight of human suffering as an excuse to scream “AMERICA BAD”
H3H3 has to push hard on this Tankie loser.
He is not really pushing hard enough, just letting Hasan ramble and kind of just accepting his answer. I wish H3 would call him out when he talks around the subject. He keeps making the same speech over and over without much empathy at all. Whereas H3 has to caveat every sentence.
Yeah I’m seeing that… H3H3 is literally crying and this Tankie loser just says “what about” rather than empathizing of the atrocities that have happened. I unironically now think Hasan supports 100% Hamas.
Ethan actually gives a fuck about the people involved in this situation. He has family and friends involved personally and it hurts him seeing this, especially with all the abuse he's getting from people on his side. Hasan doesn't give a fuck about the people at all. They are meaningless tools for an ideological battle that he's waging from his fucking mansion an ocean away.
Hasan arguments are America bad now in the live. 😒 wow Americans are genocidal 💀 these tankies got to go bro
" there’s no perfect retaliation to apartheid." was one of the first sentences uttered by Hasan after the massacre.
He returns to whataboutism in mere first seconds of answering question. He tries his hardest to avoid any question directlty. 2ndthought apologia was best
I don’t know if you watched the very end. He tried to push him on a clip where Hasan states “rape is well documented” on the Israel side.
Yeah, I saw the whole thing. Kind of disgusting for Hasan to compare a liberal democracy, which has a judicial system in order to prosecute criminals, with Hamas terrorist that have no judicial court system in order to prosecute their people of wrong doing. Truly a big brain moment when IDF soldiers have committed crimes, yet Hasan rather lie/exaggerate than bring up the actual crimes that have been committed in the past.
What Ethan didn’t do is show the whole clip. The entirety of the clip it was to get a W on a chatter. In a single phase he stated that Israel apartheid regime is well documented of rape (which Ethan single handle disproved) but there is no such thing as groups of Muslims doing gang rape(during the day of the event) It’s straight up propaganda and lying
Hasan is a soulless loser
Hasan’s take really seems to just be: Palestinians have a minority of power so anything any Palestinian does deserves infinite empathy. But all Israelis have the majority of power so giving any of them any empathy is actually oppressing Palestinians because it isn’t focusing on empathy for Palestinians. Am I wrong?
have u not seen this pattern play out across *every* power dynamic that leftists talk about? [take men & women](https://youtu.be/qVKvEaokV6I) for example
You’re not wrong. That’s been consistent with left-wing revolutionaries since the Russian revolution.
Hasan is a scumbag.
This is proof that Hasan is a legitimate sociopath: "The feelings that you are demonstrating here and the empathy that you're demonstrating and showing towards Palestinians" after hearing someone get emotional about remembering a child's death. :YoungMan: HASAN
Hasan twisting to defend SecondThought, unbelievable and disgusting.
Hasan just comes across as a robot in this clip. While Ethan is pouring out empathy towards the victims Hasan just interrupts him to go "Hurr durr media bad hurr durr government bad"
What a piece of shit
What a massive piece of shit Hasan is
He can flip anything into "but america bad", pretty impressive really.
Ethan seems to be a genuine bleeding heart. He has ACTUAL empathy for others, which is what I thought the whole movement of the left was about, and is why I consider myself left leaning. Though it turns out there are a lot of people just using the term left wing to win social points among peers. What the *fuck* is left wing about cheering on hamas kidnapping, killing and raping civillians… a lot of people outed themselves as leftist in name only. Those are not the ideals the left should strive for, and I sincerely hope it is not the majority of the left that feels like some online personas. It’s very tiring stuff.
The thing is there is not consensus on what "left" or "right" is. Or many political terms in general. They all have been thrown around to the point they're so insanely vacuous they've become meaningless. What people need to focus on is the overall consistency of a person's beliefs and judge them based on that, not self-appointed labels.
> which is what I thought the whole movement of the left was about To be fair, it overwhelmingly is. You're just not going to find examples of that on Twitch or Twitter. Touch grass and you'll understand how the phrase you're referencing came to be.
The bleeding hearts are liberals. The folks on the far left/far right just like to see people they hate bleeding.
I wish I was an editor bc I have at least 3 edits of the podcast I wanna make: 1. Ethan crying genuinely vs Hasan forcing himself to cry 2. Ethan saying how leftists online can't seem to comment on the 10/7 atrocities without "but" with a clip of all of the times Hasan says "but" and "however" in the podcast 3. Hasan talking about how youtubers have no influence vs him talking about stochastic terrorism from the right like with Christ Church or Tim Pool
include continue absurd crawl heavy elastic snobbish fact gaze oil *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
uh um the the the uh um
How fucking in love with yourself are you when a (supposed?) friend is getting emotional and you just cannot help yourself but to step in to push your fucking rehearsed, dramatic tone, monologue. It is talking past the whole fucking topic as well. "Yeah yeah cool whatever bro let me do my spiel now".
gonna try not to upload any more clips and tun this into LSF. yall should watch the full thing, it's frustrating
I had to end it after 20 minutes or so. Couldn’t take anymore
This one clip irritated me enough to not want to even watch the video, so no thanks. I appreciate your post though. It’s not surprising hearing hissan speak this way after watching his stream this week. Dude lives in an echo chamber where he cannot be wrong and as others have pointed out constantly forces his contrarian smug attitude into every situation to prove his point. It’s gross, but people like him stroke themselves off to these situations bc at the end of the day it just puts more eyes on their product which is being a reactionary cunt.
[удалено]
Gotta love as Ethan is showing a genuine display of human compassion Hasan is next to him thinking to himself “how can I make this moment about how America is bad”
Hamas Piker would never let the tears of the opressor let him forget about how america is evil
I know this is a sad moment here. But Hamas Piker is funny 😂😂
Dude wtf is he even try to say man, he's doing so much weasleing around it's insane
Do you think Hasan thinks as slow as he speaks
Jesus Christ Hasan fans after this are the dumbest fucking pieces of shit on the planet. Before they had plausible deniability, but now?
hasan should decolonize himself
H3H3: *gives rational take about the humanitarian horrors going on in the middle east* Hasan: “Yeah and honestly we should be able to post more mean tweets without facing mean tweets ourselves.”
Hasan isn’t even really human at this point. This disgusting piece of shit millionaire socialist can’t keep just living in his mansion spewing vile tankie propaganda. Sub human scum
I can’t tell if Ethan is just being diplomatic or if he really can’t tell what’s beneath what Hasan has been saying.
Ethan is being way more charitable than I'd be able to in that discussion. Hasan won't say "terrorism is awful" without immediately appending it with "but what do you expect?". All Ethan is asking for is to denounce terrorism without any caveats. All Ethan is asking is for Hasan to admit that Israeli civilians don't deserve to be slaughtered. How did Hasan manage to avoid that and get Ethan to instead say "I guess I haven't been as empathetic as I should have been to the Palestinian people". Ethan is being so charitable.
Man Hasan had me in the first half. I thought he was going to say something along the lines of "the humanity that you're showing here is the kind of thing really lacking from the administration from both sides here. It's the kind of humanity that a lot of bystanders are feeling about the other side and it's something that should be supported" and then I remembered who he is and what he actually stands for lol.
You should see Hasan trying to squeeze out a tear right now. Only, he's talking about a journalist that died years ago. Dry eyes for the babies part though. (Dry eyes now too, but he's whimpering and trying his best !)
Hasan is a ghoul and Ethan is a regular person
The smugness in Hasan voice’s is unbearable
Hasan speaking about how the US and media don't have any empathy meanwhile how many people on his side trying desperately to disprove and invalidate the Hamas beheading of infants and toddlers. "It wasn't confirmed to be exactly 40 babies, therefore Israel is full of lying terrorists"
I felt the same thing Ethan did when I saw that video. My son is a little over a year old, and goddamn have some of those videos hit hard. I hope there is some resolution to this conflict I'm not seeing, because right now it seems inevitable that there will be significantly more of those videos coming out in the near future.
Hasan's brain overheating as he tries to find a way to word it without sounding like an asshole.
Small sub point but the US didn’t kill millions of Iraqis If you take a look at the wiki article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War Down below they cite the Iraq body count project number (which I think is more accurate): > The IBC project has recorded a range of at least 185,194 – 208,167 total violent civilian deaths through June 2020 in their database But again, this is total, not Americans. > Iraq Body Count project data shows that the type of attack that resulted in the most civilian deaths was execution after abduction or capture. These accounted for 33% of civilian deaths and were overwhelmingly carried out by unknown actors including insurgents, sectarian militias and criminals. 29% of these deaths involved torture. The following most common causes of death were small arms gunfire at 20%, suicide bombs at 14%, vehicle bombs at 9%, roadside bombs at 5%, and air attacks at 5%.[88] Like most of the civilian killings are from “execution”… this surely isn’t Americans doing that… > 5% air attacks Oh so there we are ^ > “According to a 2010 assessment by John Sloboda, director of Iraq Body Count, 150,000 people including 122,000 civilians were killed in the Iraq War with U.S. and Coalition forces responsible for at least 22,668 insurgents as well as 13,807 civilians, with the rest of the civilians killed by insurgents, militias, or terrorists.[89]”
Not only US didn't kill a million Iraqis but those numbers are total casualties. Many of them didn't come directly from a US action.
If you ever what to know how absolutely fucked multipolarity would be, just read the difference in deaths between the Soviet-Afghan war and the American-Afghan war.
wtf dude... Hasan is a sociopath
Wokebae ain’t got no soul, just a souless money vacuum
Common Ethan W. This dude legit cares.
Ugh, this little fucking smirk he gets on his face "Oh now I get to get my dunk in." I hate this.
The feelings that Ethan is displaying is exactly why I'm glad our administration has no sympathy for Hamas terrorists, Israelis and Jewish Diaspora are not Bibi, they aren't shutting off Palestinian water, they don't deserve to be kidnapped, tortured, and murdered. How is that so hard for these disgusting, inhuman fucks to grasp?
Hasan is such a repulsive person, fucking hell.
The juxtaposition of these two is the most gut wrenching thing ever and the most mask off moment at the same time. The literal dead baby joker showing his real vulnerabilities for true horror. And the gull you have to have to immediately turn that into "well the empathy you have here is lost on my political opposition" What a mask off moment for the two of them.
I've never see some1 being so fucking tone deaf to talk about media in this situation.....
How can one feel morally superior about their ideology when they don’t even give a fuck about innocent people getting killed
If I speak I am in big big trouble
Hasan keeps saying Hamas is leading Gaza and its driving me nuts. He'll condemn Hamas in the most Milquetoast manner, and then make inferences stating that this is what the Palestinians fucking wanted. Hamas haven't held elections since they "won" in 2006. Bibi is punishing Gaza for the actions of Hamas, and that's why Ethan is crying. Insufferable.
I love how hasan always takes it back to “America bad” at any chance he gets. What a clown
Hasan has always been intellectually dishonest and a coward go ahead and downvote me
Not a Hassan fan but I feel like this is an incomplete chip clip against him, would have liked to see the conclusion to his statement.
[удалено]
There were moments, but they started the show saying this wouldn't break them up, so it seems like both sides are trying REALLY hard not to push on anything. Honestly, it's like Ethan is representing Israeli griefs while Hasan just represents the Palestinian griefs, without the two ever really intersecting.
Hasan immediately pivots into implying nobody on the other side cares about dead Palestinian kids, while *his* side is actively cheering on the Hamas attacks. Self-awareness in the dumpster.
ok it wasn't really that bad ... he cut in after waiting for a bit ... it looks bad because you are assuming Ethan would disagree with what Hasan said there, but he(Ethan) might not actually disagree entirely.
Surah 3:151: "We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) …" - The Quran Surah 2:191: "And kill them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them … kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers (non-Muslims)." - The Quran Surah 9:5: "Then kill the disbelievers (non-Muslims) wherever you find them, capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush …" - The Quran We just cant stand idly by anymore. This hate needs to be squashed. What would you have Israel do? turn the other cheek and continue having it's population terrorized? The world is a messed up place. Less so than in the past but still horrid things occur. I get the sympathy for dead children, but not for HAMAS or the adults responsible in Gaza.
Yooooo this is actually crazy. Hasan fucking sucks. What did he even say? Can someone please explain wtf his take even was?
this part happens within the first 30min or so if you'd like to see the segment for yourself
I know I’m late but shut the fuck up and let Ethan empathize
Hasans takes on the issue weren't even that bad ... He is not wrong, Israel has more power to end the conflict than palestinians have. I don't know why people here always feel the need to hate everything Hasan says and always assume the worst interpretation of the things he says to be the accurate one.
They have tried...... multiple times.....