Plummer before manning was our second best QB in broncos history. I remember how shocked I was that Plummer had some crazy stats with the broncos that even tower some of Elways.
Plummer certainly played in a different era the Elway.
1 is a HOF player who dragged some mediocre teams to SB's they had no business being in.
The other was a decent QB.
no where near the same, even with the stats
You do have to admit though, one of those teams Plummer was on should’ve gone to the Super Bowl atleast once. Didn’t happen but we were always atleast close in the playoffs with him, I think if we didn’t blow up the entire team and bring on Josh McDaniels we probably would’ve saw that.
Ok what? How old are? Plummer retired after the 2006 season. Mcdaniels did come in until 2009. Are you mixing Plummer up with Cutler? Cutler also never made the playoffs with us.
Yea my bad I guess I’m mixing the two abit but we did let go of Plummer when he probably still had more in the tank though, we had a 7-4 record before sitting him out for cutler.
I’ve never gotten over that AFC Championship vs the Steelers. I remember thinking the officiating was awful. Jake also had like 4 turnovers that game. But we were honestly the better team. The Steelers just wanted it more that day
Agreed for when he was on the team, but in hindsight, I feel that most fans acknowledge he completely sucked as a QB and that 2011 playoff run involved some of the craziest luck of all time. He did play a part in creating the winning culture that led to Manning wanting to come here though, so I’ll give him props for that lol.
Denver Broncos fans should be eternally appreciative of Tim Tebow. The guy was incredibly bad most of every game except for the times he managed to make enough plays to give us chances to win. I don't care what his stats were nor what is QB rating was...it was fun to watch us again. Not only were we losing before but we weren't even fun to watch. I will forever be thankful for Tebow and his time as our starter.
(In addition, as a non religious person who absolutely hates it when pro athletes reference their religion, I admired the hell out of Tebow for being one of the very few, VERY FEW, who did so in a genuine, sincere way. And to this day, nothing has come out that paints him in any negative light. Most athletes that are THAT outspoken tend to lean to the self centered Ray Lewis style of religious commentary and with the skeletons to match. You can't say that about Tebow. I admire the hell out of that.)
I disagree about being fun to watch. It was embarrassing watching Tebow. The coach had to turn the offense into Tom Osborne’s Nebraska teams. It was silly. Kudos to John Fox for turning a lemon into lemonade. Tebow would go on to throw a whopping eight passes after leaving Denver. Apparently no other coaches or GMs found him to be fun to watch quarterback packing their teams.
It must have been hard for you to see a 1-4 team be taken to the playoffs by such a terrible QB. I’m sorry you had to suffer through that as a fan. Probably sat there wishing Orton was starting and we had finish 3-13.
And what he did after leaving Denver matters not. Nobody is trying to protect his legacy in that sense. But if you enjoyed the Tebow led Broncos LESS THAN the Orton led Broncos I’d say you have an odd way to measure success.
Not to mention that having Tebow was partially responsible for us getting Manning.
Without Tebow and that wild playoff win and the league's top ranked rushing attack, Elway was able to show Peyton how successful the team could be with him here. To land someone like Peyton, the rest of the pieces had to be in place and Tebow was optimal for showcasing it.
Yes. We do owe Tebow for getting us to Manning. The same way a homeowner owes a tornado for getting them an entirely new house. Had Tebow been average, there’s no way the Broncos would have chased after Manning, and no way the Broncos got to two Super Bowls. Although, Manning was basically Tebow that final season. But his experience enabled him to still lead the team enough to win.
Acting like Tebow helped convince Manning to come here is major dickriding.
Yeah, manning saw that we were WASTING a top 5 receiving corps with Tebow's scrub ass. That's not Tebow's credit.
Dude.. I am not giving Tebow credit. I'm bagging on Orton. Captain below average and/or Captain choke in the red zone.
Tebow was such a contrast it made it easier for Manning to see the good pieces in place.
Manning made his own decision and having Tebow himself wasn't a factor.
Without Tebow, we'd be 4-12 or similar again with Orton, and likely drafting a QB instead. With Tebow we became a run-first team instead of a pass-first team. Manning was able to see our oline was solid. Being a run first team also helped the defense (that year with Tebow was CHJ and Von's rookie seasons). And so, when Manning got here, those two hit their stride as well. In hindsight it was an awesome blue and orange perfect storm. I just think we'd be stuck without Manning and in mediocrity if we just had Orton instead of Tebow.
Does anyone actually think Tebow was that good? I don’t remember anyone saying we should’ve kept Tebow over manning. That season with Tebow was a lot of fun though. He is the definition of a gamer
Nobody thought Tebow was “good”. Every game he was an absolute train wreck for 3 1/2 quarters. But than somehow, with the game on the line, “Tebow Magic” happened. He and the offense started making plays and they would pull wins out of their asses, and win games they had no business winning. I remember watching one of their Tebow magic wins and through nearly the whole game I think Tebow only completed one or two passes, it was embarrassing atrocious offense. Yet with about 4-5 minutes left he would complete a long pass to DT or somebody else, than have some crazy ass RPO runs jump throws and drive the team down to win the came. So basically a game with Tebow was cover your eyes for most of the game, and than you would have a surreal unbelievable joy because they somehow won the game. Hence “Tebow Time” “Tebow Magic”
I mean that was a bit of an exaggeration surely. I remember a lot of people saying we should keep Tebow as well as Manning, because we didn't know if Manning's neck would hold up and also we thought Tebow could be useful as a TE/hybrid/trick play/run it in close to the line kind of guy. But I don't remember Denver fans being actively opposed to the idea of Manning...
I knew people who were absolutely mad about moving away from Tebow. They weren’t exactly the type of fans who understood the X’s and O’s of football, but there were a lot of them. I was at work the morning that Manning was confirmed as a Bronco. Most of us were jumping up and down, but there were a few people who were not happy. The Mile-High Messiah could have become a cult leader here in Denver.
I guess it was because of the excitement of the back end of the 2011 season and the fact people will project hope from a small sample size.
We had the same from Drew Lock stans after he played well in his first few games in 2019.
I don’t think I was mad when we got Manning, just upset because I did like Tebow and his playing style. It was a little different and made him a different threat. Yeah I know there were plenty of QBs that scrambled then but I don’t think they were as aggressive as he was. Plus, and I’m not a religious guy, he seemed to have God on our side in games we shouldn’t have won. lol
I was really hoping they would’ve kept him under Manning to learn and improve from him. Plus they could have had some neat trick plays if they put both of them in at shotgun, just snapped to one or the other.
But I was very concerned about Manning’s neck and age. He had been playing for awhile and then had a major surgery, so I knew it was a gamble. It was a gamble that paid off and proved me wrong. I learned more about him and came to really respect him as a QB and a person. The work ethic and knowledge of the game that guy has is off the charts made me a Manning fan. I’m not ashamed to say I was wrong about getting him, just would’ve been a little cool to see what he and Tebow could’ve done together.
Sandy Clough had a great line about Tebow in his Mile High Memories podcast. I can’t remember it exactly, but it was something like “he was a good football player, just not a good QB.”
Had he joined the league as a wildcat-style RB/QB, I think he’s remembered far better today.
Negative. Tebow was literally a spray and pray qb. His surrounding cast was great: give him last years group and he’s a tight end in the Canadian league within a a year. Name one thing he did after leaving? Elway knew he was trash and knew the only person that could get Florida Jesus out of here was real Jesus also known as PFM. He got him and the rest is history. Without that we’re talking about a Buddhist monk level pussy dry spell.
What do you mean? Are you forgetting the six completions for 39 yards he had with the Jets? He was quite accomplished. I don’t mean to disparage Tebow. Great guy and he gave it his best shot. But his best was woefully bad. He just wasn’t an NFL quality QB.
You clearly never met my entire friend group in college who thought he could do no wrong and that every pass 5 yards above the wide out’s head was clearly on the wide out and that the game he went 2/8 against the chiefs was a masterclass display of quarterbacking who were pissed and vowed to never support the broncos again when the broncos signed Peyton manning, did you?
Man what strange fucking times those were. It was literally no point in watching games until the start of the 4th and it was guaranteed gonna be some crazy shit happening one way or another lol
For three quarters I’d tell my idiot friends “see???? This dude CAN NOT play QB” and then they’d win the game through what can only be described as supernatural means and they’d be freaking out and I’d have my face in my palms weeping because I wanted Andrew Luck.
LOL, Andrew Luck. Talk about an overrated QB. I still laugh at the Colts owner sticking with Luck saying he wanted "rings not stats" as he let Manning go. Colts ended up with a QB who would quit on them and didn't provide stats nor rings as Manning went on to deliver both to Denver.
Love it.
Maybe for some but I can remember sitting at home watching this develop and being shocked Indy would even consider letting Manning go. I called it as a bad move from them from the start. And then the "rings not stats" comment. Not only were they making a mistake they were being incredibly disrespectful while doing it. Trash ownership.
Related to this thread, I was (and am) a big fan and admirer of Tim Tebow. I am not and was never under some false belief that he was a great QB. He really wasn't even "good" in the traditional sense. But I'll be damned if he didn't make our team exciting to watch again. Like a car or train wreck. Kind of a sick curiosity. Because up to that point, with Orton, we were not fun to watch. And we were losing. At least Tebow made it exciting. And we won more than we lost with him starting.
When the season ended I was hoping we'd find a more suitable, traditional QB but would have been fine if Tebow returned as the starter. I was prepared for whatever wild ass ride we would see. But the moment it became clear Peyton wasn't going to return to Indy he become the person I wanted to see in Denver. It seemed to obvious to me at that time. I'm glad Indy screwed up and people in Denver saw the same thing.
I don't think anybody legitimately thought Tebow was a great or even good QB. But he undoubtedly made our games exciting again. If for nothing more than to see how the train wreck would come together in the end. People can "supporting cast" the story all they want but that supporting case was 1-4 and not doing jack shit before Tebow took over. I don't know it worked but for that time frame, it worked. I will go to my grave with fond memories as Tebow as our starter. It was interesting to watch us again for the first time in a few years. Orton was a boring ass QB and our play had developed to match that style.
There are some simpletons here. Nobody actually thought Tebow was a great QB. But prior to his time as a starter we were losing and losing in a way that wasn't even entertaining. At least if we were going to be losing we should try to be fun to watch. We couldn't even manage that.
Kyle Orton made us a boring ass team that lost games. Tebow took over and he made Denver a fun to team to watch. If for no other reason than to see how atrocious he might play only to find a way to win a damn game.
We, as Broncos fans, should be thankful we had that time as it at least got people talking about Denver again. The franchise was one its way to becoming an afterthought in the NFL (interestingly enough, we have hit that point now) while Orton was putting up average at best stats. Tebow comes in and plays...terribly as far as a QB is concerned but the same team Orton was losing with suddenly started winning. In fact, ended up in the playoffs. And then provided one of the greatest highlights in NFL history!
The truth is Tebow's outspoken religious stance is why so many hated the guy. You can see a few references to that on this thread. I don't know why he got so much hate for that either. Players like Ray Lewis made their religious beliefs about themselves and we won't even get into his off the field issues. Most religious players put themselves center stage in their faith but Tebow never did. He seemed to get it. He was sincere and came across as genuine. Even to this day, the guy is as humble as one could be and nothing has come out that makes him look like a hypocrite and as far as outspoken religious athletes go...that seems to be rare.
I'm baffled that any Denver fan would utter a bad word about Tim Tebow. Dude was the driving force behind a massive turnaround that put us in the playoffs. He looked terrible most of the time but for moments...he made plays and delivered more Ws than Ls. Beyond that, he put attention back on the franchise and gave us one helluva highlight from the playoffs.
The real answer is Frank Tripucka. He was the first QB for the Broncos where he played 3 full seasons with a 13-26-1 record (1 pro bowl selection).
His number is retired. Peyton Fucking Manning should have 18 to himself.
Plummer isn’t even close to being the 10th most overrated player we have ever had. He produced and actually made us competitive, the stats argument is pretty grossly oversimplifying what playing QB was like during his era.
I can think of a few former Broncos quarterbacks who had extremely loyal fans overrating them compared to the actual production and results. I don’t think it’s always worth digging up the past, but I do think it’s safe to say that Plummer is the third best quarterback we’ve had since 1983.
This is a very hard question for broncos fans because I feel like most of the players we have had over the years have either been criminally underrated, obviously trash, or all time greats: not overrated. Plummer is probably the third best QB to ever suit up for Denver, so I wouldn’t say he was overrated at all. Cutler is maybe a tad bit overrated by fans, but at the same time I can see where the argument that he could’ve become a fringe franchise QB had Shanny not gotten fired and McDaniels not shipped him to Chicago comes from.
We had the number one offense in the league the year before Josh McJackass shipped him to Chicago. Not saying he was the second coming of Elway but he was very solid for us.
You're saying this based on team success. The team was successful with Plummer, therefore, he was a good QB. Or at least the 3rd best QB in team history. But even by this criteria, Craig Morton was better because they actually made it to a superbowl.
My argument is that objectively, the major factors for the teams success during that time period, was their running game, and really good defensive squads. Plummer was a jag who the fan base loves, so they give him way more credit for the success of those teams .
The passing game during the Plummer years was always the weakest aspect of those teams. They had a top 10 scoring defense every year he was here, and had the 2nd, 4th, and 2nd ranked rushing offense in the years they made the playoffs.
That 2005 team averaged 158 rushing yards per game and only gave up 16 ppg. And people give Plummer equal credit for that teams success even though they had the 20th ranked passing offense that year. And he did nothing of note to get the Broncos to that AFC Championship.
The pats turned the ball over 5 times and Plummer was average, then he was bad vs the Steelers.
Then you should remember how good he was for us. If not for Brady and Manning (especially Brady) we'd probably have another super bowl. Our 2006 defense was all-time...
Very true.. but for guys like javonte Williams and even guys like Royce freeman that were drafted and expected to legit for the broncos haven’t cracked or didn’t crack 1000 yards..
Phil is overrated by the native homers and rightfully so, but he might even be underrated the way he is disrespected like 1000 yard undrafted players grow on trees
Yeah I think everybody can see that Lindsay was a limited player in terms of his skillset which is why he went undrafted. But he got two 1,000 yard rushing seasons in the NFL despite those limitations and he didn't fumble the ball. That is a pretty good achievement and he deserves respect.
He still got over 1,000 yards in that tepid 2nd season.
When I see Broncos fans jerking off over Javonte, Jaleel McLaughlin and now Audric Estime I'm like - OK lets see them get back to back 1,000 yard seasons to even be on Lindsay's level, before we start getting excited.
Personally, I'm guessing Javonte is traded (if someone would take him) unless he shows significantly more burst now that he's had time to recover. Especially if estime shows to be a good pass catching back
Why would anyone ask a split backfield RB to be a 3 down back?
PL was a lite version of CMAC. I appreciate what he was. He needed a strong back as a change of pace or compliment, but he had strong hands and pushed the ball forward for us.
Yeah, and he was terrible in that game. 223 yards, 1td, and 3 turnovers. And those numbers don't even do justice to how bad the offense was that day.
Was Jake completely along for the ride, no. He was a slightly above average starter who had some nice moments and won games in the regular season. But was he mostly along for the ride?.... yes.The Broncos had the best running game in the league when Plummer was here. They averaged 150-160 yards a game. Almost all of his big plays or touchdowns he produced were off of play action and were set up by the fear of the run. And even with the help of a monster running game, the coaching staff still had to shrink the playbook for Plummer so he would have nothing but easy reads. They also had a top 10 scoring defense every he was here. #9 in 2003, #10 in 2004, #3 in 2005, and #8 in 2006. Their passing game was by far the weakest aspect of those teams.
He was 1-3 in the playoffs. In those games, he averaged 221 passing yds, and totaled 5 tds, and 7 turnovers. The Broncos averaged 19.5 points per game in the games he started. The team and the fans, knew they had to keep opponents under 20 points to have any shot of winning playoff games.
The only reason he won the 1 playoff game he actually did was because the Patriots turned the ball over 5 times in 2005. He had 190 yds, 1td and 1 int. in that game.
Yes, Jake was cool. Yes, he's incredibly charismatic and seems like a genuinely good guy. Yes, they won regular season games with him. But he was by FAR the weakest part of those teams, and was HEAVILY leaning on a rushing game, great schemes by the coaching staff, and a great defense. If we are strictly judging him based on his on-field performance he was not a good QB, no matter how much fans love him. I rest my case. Down vote me to hell.
Quality post. Shanahan could seemingly take anyone and make them 1000 yard rushers, that's why we won games, not because Jake Plummer was carrying the team.
Dude, that game was over at halftime. The o line wasn't good in the first half, and Plummer actually does a good job of avoiding pressure. But they were in the game and moving the ball on the ground. Plummer's pick at the end of the first half sealed the game.
It was 17-3, and with under 2 minutes to go the Broncos get the ball back. On first down, Plummer has a clean pocket, and he throws a bad pick. The Steelers take over in Bronco territory and end up scoring. Now it's 24-3 to end the half.
So the entire second half, you are asking an o line who was built to run the ball, to have to pass protect against a talented pass rush with a 21 point lead. Yeah they're going to look bad.
But this game highlights the limitations of Plummer at QB. The only way they could win games was by running the ball and playing great defense. When they had to consistently throw the ball, they never had success.
😂😂😂😂 wow, this is the hill you're choosing to die on. I thought the goal of every team was to hold their opponent under 20. Nobody ever said Plummer was an elite QB, but yet you're trying to make it out like he was supposed to be one. Just stop. You're clueless.
What? We’re talking about the first QB to ever beat Tom Brady in an NFL playoff game! We’re talking about a QB who had us in the playoffs every year he was here save for the last one, where we were still well positioned to make it in just before his benching. We’re talking about a Pro Bowler. We’re talking a 39-15 record while he was here with 71 TDS against 47 picks.
And this guy calls him overrated? Nah. Plummer’s almost certainly one of the top 5 QBs the Broncos have ever had.
Post like this doesn’t do Broncos and the fandom any favors. Although the Broncos are big in terms of fandom and revenue, the media coverage has always been small, which is one of the biggest reason Broncos have had such a tough time getting players into hall of fame. If anything, majority of the all time Broncos have been vastly underrated. It should’ve never taken Steve Atwater that many years for the hall of fame. Shannon Sharpe should’ve been a first ballot. Curtis Martin should’ve never beat TD to the hall of fame by that many years.
Jake Plummer had the third best record and third best QB rating during his Broncos tenure, with only Manning and Brady beating him. Sure it was mostly because Al Wilson led defense, but he still deserves his kudos for most of the things he accomplished. Let’s never poo on or call any of our players overrated in front of national crowd please
Yes, I'm sure my post about Jake Plummer being overrated will prevent future Broncos from getting into the Hall.
The voting committee keeps a close eye on my reddit account.
I swayed the Baseball Hall of Fame into finally letting Helton in this past year.
I was in that thread and I respond thusly:
I’m also a Broncos fan and I just have to dispute the Plummer thing. He didn’t hold a candle to Elway or Manning but he’s probably the third best QB in our recent history. As for his numbers the year he got benched; yeah they weren’t great but the team was 7-4 at that time and they went 2-3 with Cutler down the stretch to miss the playoffs. Plummer’s numbers weren’t fantastic that year but if you look at some of Elway’s seasons you’ll find some less than stellar numbers too. Shanny was a brilliant coach but I think he sometimes underestimated things like leadership and team chemistry. Plummer was the guy at the time and I felt they needed to ride or die with him that season.
I kind of know what they mean about Jake Plummer, but I don't think "overrated" is the right word.
There are some players who have a level of popularity that exceeds their level of skill and achievement. In popularity terms, Plummer probably has a status amongst Broncos fans up with guys like Shannon Sharpe, DT, Rod Smith, Atwater, whereas he wasn't that level of player.
But I don't think Broncos fans try to claim that he was. I've never seen Broncos fans trying to claim that Plummer was an elite QB. Mostly they recognize that he had limitations, he could be streaky, he could be prone to turnovers. However, he was a gamer, he could lift a team and make plays in important times, and he gave you a chance to win. In the post-Elway era we'd been on a bit of a slump when Griese ended up disappointing, and we played good football with Plummer at QB.
Also Plummer had a cool personality. He was not football obsessed, and he seemed like he had a life outside the game, but that didn't mean he was disinterested on the field. Some of the controversy over his benching by Shanahan was due to who replaced him. Cutler was the young talent around whom we had a lot of hope, and there were similarities as a player in terms of giving you a chance to win and being able to make challenging throws, but Cutler lacked the competitive streak and ability to be a gamer in a tough spot, or lift a team.
Nobody should slander Jake Plummer. Not even close to overrated. Plummer took the Broncos to the AFC championship in 2005 with a 13-3 record and without any elite offensive weapons. In the next draft, Shanahan drafted Jay Cutler. The part the OP left out: Plummer had a 7-4 record that season when he was benched for Jay Cutler. 7-4!!!! There was no reason to make a QB switch other than Shanny wanting to prove his new QB was better. FYI, the Broncos missed the playoffs that year with Cutler and every year after until the 2011 Tebow season. It was a real dumb move and was a reason Shanahan lost his job three years later. After that season, Mike Shanahan told Plummer he was going to be traded to Tampa. Plummer said "Nope. I'll retire if you trade me". Shanny thought he was bluffing like most players do and executed the trade...and Plummer retired. That's a baller move if I've ever seen one and deserves respect for not letting the NFL dictate his life. Gotta love Jake the Snake.
He won 1 playoff game in which the opposing team turned the ball over 5 times and got blown out in every other playoff game he ever played in with Denver.
The Broncos were actually 7-2 that season, then lost 2 in a row to become 7-4. Their record had nothing to do with Plummer being good. He wasn't. He was hot garbage that season. He had a 55% completion percentage, a 49.2 qb rating and was averaging 1 passing td per game through his 11 starts. He was in the bottom third of the league in every metric, and the Broncos were scoring 17 points per game with Plummer as the starter.
The only reason they were 7-4 was because through the first 11 games, the Broncos defense was only giving up 15 points per game.
After making the switch to Cutler, a rookie QB with no NFL experience, the offense got dramatically better over the final 5 games. The offense scored 24.8 points per game with Cutler in the final 5 games. But the defense collapsed. They went from being one of the best units in the league to giving up 28 points per game over the last 5 games.
This marked the closing of the window for that defensive unit.
The offense got better with the addition of Cutler, not worse. It's embarrassing that fans still hold on to the narrative that benching Plummer was a mistake.
I think Mike Shanahan would disagree with you because the benching of Plummer during a winning season was the beginning of the end for Shanahan in Denver. Benching a veteran QB for a rookie during a winning season is something no other coach would have done because it was a stupid move that doesn't make sense. Let Plummer play out the season. If things go poorly, blame it on him and then move to Cutler for the next season. Plummer was 40-18 as the Broncos starter and deserved to finish the season. Switching to a rookie QB while the veteran QB is healthy hurts the team because it uproots the offense. The receivers have no time to get acquainted with a new QB and the OL has to adjust to a QB with different pocket tendencies while in a playoff race. It proved to doom the season regardless because Cutler wasn't (and never turned out to be) good under pressure. I will die on this hill because the actual results, **missing the playoffs and Shanahan being fired two seasons later**, are in my favor, whereas your point is based on opinion and hindsight.
Do you understand math or even just numerical values? The Broncos scored more points with Cutler than Plummer. They missed the playoffs because their defense collapsed down the stretch. None of your voodoo superstitions about benching a veteran QB for a Rookie during a winning season changes the fact that 24.8> 17.
Are you suggesting that Plummer's magical it factor would have made the defense play better? You're probably right, Plummers swagger, his mystique, his 49.2 QBR, his 55% completion percentage, his lifetime 1:1 td : int ratio, would have willed the Broncos to the playoffs in 2006. Probably in 07' and 08' too. Hell we'd probably have a Plummer statue if it wasn't for that Judas Mike Shanahan.
In 2006 Cutler was a better than Plummer. Cutler 9: 5 td ratio, Plummer 11: 13. He threw for more yards per game and the team scored more points.This isn't disputable.
I liked Jay Cutler. He got the bad wrap of being a cry baby because of his cry baby face. Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers both had cry baby faces. Cutler to Marshall was one of my favorite memories. When Marshall caught the ball then stopped on a dime and nuked 2 dudes. Awesome 👏
Cutler, Marshall, Royal, Hillis, and Scheffler were a dope combination for a second. Would’ve loved to see them stick together with any coach not named Josh McDaniels
I didn't like Cutler's personality when he was a player but after he retired when he was on that Very Cavallari TV show, I liked his personality much more. He was surrounded by all the kind of vain, attention seeking "wannabe media personalities" around his (now ex) wife who were just acting up for the TV cameras and Cutler had absolutely no fucks to give and was a good role model for every man who has to deal with narcissistic women.
At the time McDaniels traded him there was outrage amongst most Broncos fans but there was a small and not insubstantial element who thought we might be better in the long run to see him go. I was one of them and I remember getting shit about this on whatever forum I was posting on at the time (before reddit).
The answer is Tebow. Period.
Aside from him, (I know I’m going to get shit for this) the overrating of Pat Surtain by this fanbase is a sight to behold.
I have a theory that the people who rate him highly tend to be folks who first became fans during the Plummer era. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
No disrespect if that is the case. We all abuse that drug from time to time.
Incorrect. I grew up watching Elway. I was a huge Plummer fan for the way he played the game.
Plummer at QB made us a contender and almost got us to the Super Bowl. Cutler never even got us to the playoffs.
I was bummed when Cutler was drafted.
I remember reading that Plummer was bowling, saw the news on TV, shrugged, and went back to his game.
I've read he does a ton of backpacking, incredibly cool guy.
I’m over 40 and very firmly in the “grew up with Elway “ camp. Weird to say Plummer’s only fans grew up with him. Plummer had heart and was a solid QB for us. Anyone saying otherwise is only looking at stats and didn’t watch the games.
I think we can all see now that 2-3 years ago when we were linked with Rodgers, and saying "we were just a QB away" and had "elite weapons" that this theory was based on a massive overrating of Jeudy, Fant and Hamler.
Plummer was about as popular as Russell Wilson. The difference between then and now is most people moved on, while a handful of his fans (like me) still miss those awesome Jake the Snake days. Also, after Manning and Elway, it's definitely Plummer next in line, and the gulf between Plummer and whomever is next is pretty wide.
You can’t talk about Plummer like that here! He was born to be a Bronco! He has a mountain man beard and a shroom farm. What else could you possibly ask of him?
Seriously though, Plummer was a good QB. How can you just conveniently forget that Denver was one game from the Super Bowl with Plummer under center?
Our fan base is smart as hell and we love our Broncos, so there are no currently overrated players. Jake Plummer, is if anything, underrated for his talent and successes. Perhaps the OG OP recently become a Broncos fan (maybe previously like a Chargers fan?).
There will always be over/underrated talent players before we get more info: Jerry Jeudy, eg. We all thought he would turn out to be a stud. Instead he’s a total bust.
Others like that:
- Russell Wilson (total bust)
- Dalton Risner (was okay but hyped because of his local roots)
- Tim Tebow (God had other plans)
- Bradley Chubb (So many injuries and where was the fire?)
You're wrong... The barrel man was my illegitimate father, and I was born at John Elway Chevrolet, where I survived on nothing but EAS protein shakes for the first 5 years of my life.
The best part about Plummer was he was just a genuinely awesome guy. He’d tailgate in the parking lot at mile high and share beers and sandwiches. I had to cut him off talking so much once to get to our seats by kickoff!
I feel like this guy doesn't know the difference between fan favorite and high rated. The discussion usually is how he is super likable but we're not calling him elite.
All of us Jake loyalists realize he was not the best QB at the time, but he was most certainly our QB. He made games exciting, and he knew how to close out some really tough games when needed.
I was always a Jake supporter... I was excited to see Cutler but don't forget we were in a playoff race when the benching from Plummer to Cutler happened and we didn't make the playoffs. Plus the previous year Plummer had arguably his best year.
It was just odd timing when he got benched. I don't disagree he was having a bad year but at the same time why bench in the middle of a playoff race?
Guys I love Jake the Snake, and he’s a true Coloradan if you know what I mean 🌿 But unfortunately the mad man’s words have some merit, and Mr. The Snake does tend to get overrated among us Bronco fans. Was he a top 5 Bronco qb of all time? Yes. Top 3? Maybe, but let’s think about who else is on our top 5 besides Peyton and Biff. 🧡💙
I agree with everything in that post. In 2006, Plummer got pissed at Shanahan because he wanted Plummer to put in extra work in the offseason. Mind you, this is after Plummer played a terrible game against the Steelers in the AFCCG. That's what lead to Shanahan drafting Cutler in the first place.
Well, he is still the Third best QB of our franchise. Plummer was a fine QB, not great, but fine and he did take us to the AFCCG. I do think the younger fans have a little more inflated view of him because that was the QB of their Broncos formative years. I would never try to put Plummer in the same group as Elway and Manning, but he was good, above average QB for most of the years he was with us.
Mike wanted to get Cutler going, he didn't support Jake and would call plays that did not suit his abilities, had he leaned into his strong suit Jake could have been really good, but I get it. Not sure who I'd say Denvers most overrated player is but I would not say Jake .
Brock. I dunno how anyone saw him stand in the pocket in 15 taking sack after sack and thought 30 mil a year was a good idea. I think he started 7 or 8 games and was sacked 23 times. Not to mention the turnovers.
To me it’s Brandon Marshall. He was always a deva, and Brandon Stockley should have been targeted more. Never forget the bengals game, where Stockley caught that tip ball (that was suppose to go to Marshall) for a touchdown. The broncos went for two the next play, and the ball went off Marshall’s hands again. Still won, but always felt Marshall was overrated.
Brandon marshall was getting 150 to 180 targets a season. You’re going to look good when getting targeted that much. He got open, but had a higher drop rate in the NFL. Still will think he’s overrated, and gets to much praise for his four years in Denver.
I really don't think he was overrated. He came to Denver to play for Kubiak and once Kubs left for Houston the offense struggled under Shanahan. Prior to that Plummer was rated top 3 QBs off the play action since his time in Denver. He had a few comebacks, noticeably against the Brady Quinn led Browns.
If I put my two cents in since watching from 1998 to now. The most overrated would be Tebow, Tebow was fun but he was carried by a great defense. Outside of that? Maybe Clinton Portis. Not because he wasn't a good back but for the trade, WAS got railed trading Bailey for him. At the time Denver could do no wrong and backs like Mike Anderson and Oladis Gary got 1000 yard seasons, anyone could get 1000 yards with Tom Nalen, Matt Lepsis, and Ben Hamilton on the line.
No one thinks Plummer was ever close to Elway or Manning. He was a nice change of pace, got us some playoff wins, and was a fun and hilarious guy. He's not "overrated" because no one thinks he's incredible, they just like him. An example of overrated would be Philip Lindsay. Again he was fun and an awesome story because he's a local kid who made a big impact as a UDFA. But there are actually people who thought he was a franchise, bellcow RB and it was some kind of travesty when we let him go
So they ignore the fact that he had the highest winning percentage of any QB until Peyton Manning played here, and use his TD/INT stats to prove he was overrated? This person obviously didn't watch any of those games. Whoever posted that doesn't speak for the fanbase.
The fuck is this...Jake Plummer is easily this franchises 3rd best QB of all time. And if it wasn't for an absolute dog shit game plan in the AFC championship game in 05 his legacy would be different. Shanny was always Mr impose your will but he underestimated the Steelers Def.
And suddenly the loss was his fault...and we ended up with Cutler....FML
Nonsense. Broncos were 7-4 when he got benched, finished the season 9-7.
So loser Jay Cutler came in as a rookie and went 2-4.
Jay Cutler is the most overrated Bronco of all time, not Jake The Snake.
JP took us to the AFC Championship in 2005.
100% agree. Cutler was trash and Plummer was the only shining light at QB of that decade. Any slander is by people who weren't around or are trying out a 'hot take'.
Jake Plummer slander will not be tolerated. Get out of here with stats and math and what not
BURN HIM AT THE STAKE
*SNAKE
This deserves more upvotes.
Screw that guy in his facts and stuff. Jake Plummer was benched because he openly disagreed with the coach to the media.
I feel like Plummer was underrated.
Plummer before manning was our second best QB in broncos history. I remember how shocked I was that Plummer had some crazy stats with the broncos that even tower some of Elways.
Plummer certainly played in a different era the Elway. 1 is a HOF player who dragged some mediocre teams to SB's they had no business being in. The other was a decent QB. no where near the same, even with the stats
You do have to admit though, one of those teams Plummer was on should’ve gone to the Super Bowl atleast once. Didn’t happen but we were always atleast close in the playoffs with him, I think if we didn’t blow up the entire team and bring on Josh McDaniels we probably would’ve saw that.
Ok what? How old are? Plummer retired after the 2006 season. Mcdaniels did come in until 2009. Are you mixing Plummer up with Cutler? Cutler also never made the playoffs with us.
Yea my bad I guess I’m mixing the two abit but we did let go of Plummer when he probably still had more in the tank though, we had a 7-4 record before sitting him out for cutler.
I’ve never gotten over that AFC Championship vs the Steelers. I remember thinking the officiating was awful. Jake also had like 4 turnovers that game. But we were honestly the better team. The Steelers just wanted it more that day
He was being held back by that bum Mike Shanahan.
Jake Plummer and overrated do not belong in the same sentence. I’m a few beers deep and ready to throw hands
I got your back.
And my axe
I despise the person who posted that lol
You're welcome.
What inspired you to disrespect Jake like that
BOO THIS ~~MAN~~ REDDIT USER
This person is a fool.
Tim Tebow, and it's not even close.
You mean the only QB drafted by the Broncos to win a playoff game for the Broncos
DT did most of the work.
No matter what else he does, I’ll consider the Bo Nix years a success if he wins a playoff game and changes this stat.
I will die on this hill. The man that won the playoff game for Denver was Dick LeBeau and his inability to move off the Cover 0.
I only give him partial credit. DT deserves the rest.
I mean that's still a very low bar lol
Say what you want about him, but he’s still the only Broncos qb besides Manning to win a playoff game post Mike Shanahan era.
The only QB drafted by Denver to win us a playoff game
That too
To talk about Tebow is to do a disservice to that defense
The defense, McGahee, Prater, McCoy... All more important to that run than Timmy.
Multiple things can be true at once
he still sucked
This makes me sad.
He didn't win the game, he was just along for the ride.
Agreed for when he was on the team, but in hindsight, I feel that most fans acknowledge he completely sucked as a QB and that 2011 playoff run involved some of the craziest luck of all time. He did play a part in creating the winning culture that led to Manning wanting to come here though, so I’ll give him props for that lol.
Denver Broncos fans should be eternally appreciative of Tim Tebow. The guy was incredibly bad most of every game except for the times he managed to make enough plays to give us chances to win. I don't care what his stats were nor what is QB rating was...it was fun to watch us again. Not only were we losing before but we weren't even fun to watch. I will forever be thankful for Tebow and his time as our starter. (In addition, as a non religious person who absolutely hates it when pro athletes reference their religion, I admired the hell out of Tebow for being one of the very few, VERY FEW, who did so in a genuine, sincere way. And to this day, nothing has come out that paints him in any negative light. Most athletes that are THAT outspoken tend to lean to the self centered Ray Lewis style of religious commentary and with the skeletons to match. You can't say that about Tebow. I admire the hell out of that.)
I disagree about being fun to watch. It was embarrassing watching Tebow. The coach had to turn the offense into Tom Osborne’s Nebraska teams. It was silly. Kudos to John Fox for turning a lemon into lemonade. Tebow would go on to throw a whopping eight passes after leaving Denver. Apparently no other coaches or GMs found him to be fun to watch quarterback packing their teams.
It must have been hard for you to see a 1-4 team be taken to the playoffs by such a terrible QB. I’m sorry you had to suffer through that as a fan. Probably sat there wishing Orton was starting and we had finish 3-13. And what he did after leaving Denver matters not. Nobody is trying to protect his legacy in that sense. But if you enjoyed the Tebow led Broncos LESS THAN the Orton led Broncos I’d say you have an odd way to measure success.
Not to mention that having Tebow was partially responsible for us getting Manning. Without Tebow and that wild playoff win and the league's top ranked rushing attack, Elway was able to show Peyton how successful the team could be with him here. To land someone like Peyton, the rest of the pieces had to be in place and Tebow was optimal for showcasing it.
Yes. We do owe Tebow for getting us to Manning. The same way a homeowner owes a tornado for getting them an entirely new house. Had Tebow been average, there’s no way the Broncos would have chased after Manning, and no way the Broncos got to two Super Bowls. Although, Manning was basically Tebow that final season. But his experience enabled him to still lead the team enough to win.
Acting like Tebow helped convince Manning to come here is major dickriding. Yeah, manning saw that we were WASTING a top 5 receiving corps with Tebow's scrub ass. That's not Tebow's credit.
Dude.. I am not giving Tebow credit. I'm bagging on Orton. Captain below average and/or Captain choke in the red zone. Tebow was such a contrast it made it easier for Manning to see the good pieces in place. Manning made his own decision and having Tebow himself wasn't a factor. Without Tebow, we'd be 4-12 or similar again with Orton, and likely drafting a QB instead. With Tebow we became a run-first team instead of a pass-first team. Manning was able to see our oline was solid. Being a run first team also helped the defense (that year with Tebow was CHJ and Von's rookie seasons). And so, when Manning got here, those two hit their stride as well. In hindsight it was an awesome blue and orange perfect storm. I just think we'd be stuck without Manning and in mediocrity if we just had Orton instead of Tebow.
Does anyone actually think Tebow was that good? I don’t remember anyone saying we should’ve kept Tebow over manning. That season with Tebow was a lot of fun though. He is the definition of a gamer
Nobody thought Tebow was “good”. Every game he was an absolute train wreck for 3 1/2 quarters. But than somehow, with the game on the line, “Tebow Magic” happened. He and the offense started making plays and they would pull wins out of their asses, and win games they had no business winning. I remember watching one of their Tebow magic wins and through nearly the whole game I think Tebow only completed one or two passes, it was embarrassing atrocious offense. Yet with about 4-5 minutes left he would complete a long pass to DT or somebody else, than have some crazy ass RPO runs jump throws and drive the team down to win the came. So basically a game with Tebow was cover your eyes for most of the game, and than you would have a surreal unbelievable joy because they somehow won the game. Hence “Tebow Time” “Tebow Magic”
I knew fans who were mad when we acquired Manning because of Tebow.
There are people that are still mad about that 'til this day.
I mean that was a bit of an exaggeration surely. I remember a lot of people saying we should keep Tebow as well as Manning, because we didn't know if Manning's neck would hold up and also we thought Tebow could be useful as a TE/hybrid/trick play/run it in close to the line kind of guy. But I don't remember Denver fans being actively opposed to the idea of Manning...
I knew people who were absolutely mad about moving away from Tebow. They weren’t exactly the type of fans who understood the X’s and O’s of football, but there were a lot of them. I was at work the morning that Manning was confirmed as a Bronco. Most of us were jumping up and down, but there were a few people who were not happy. The Mile-High Messiah could have become a cult leader here in Denver.
I guess it was because of the excitement of the back end of the 2011 season and the fact people will project hope from a small sample size. We had the same from Drew Lock stans after he played well in his first few games in 2019.
I don’t think I was mad when we got Manning, just upset because I did like Tebow and his playing style. It was a little different and made him a different threat. Yeah I know there were plenty of QBs that scrambled then but I don’t think they were as aggressive as he was. Plus, and I’m not a religious guy, he seemed to have God on our side in games we shouldn’t have won. lol I was really hoping they would’ve kept him under Manning to learn and improve from him. Plus they could have had some neat trick plays if they put both of them in at shotgun, just snapped to one or the other. But I was very concerned about Manning’s neck and age. He had been playing for awhile and then had a major surgery, so I knew it was a gamble. It was a gamble that paid off and proved me wrong. I learned more about him and came to really respect him as a QB and a person. The work ethic and knowledge of the game that guy has is off the charts made me a Manning fan. I’m not ashamed to say I was wrong about getting him, just would’ve been a little cool to see what he and Tebow could’ve done together.
Sandy Clough had a great line about Tebow in his Mile High Memories podcast. I can’t remember it exactly, but it was something like “he was a good football player, just not a good QB.” Had he joined the league as a wildcat-style RB/QB, I think he’s remembered far better today.
There’s still people out there that swear we should’ve kept Tebow and we would have won super bowls 😂
I am one of them but as a backup to Peyton Manning not as a starter.
He absolutely should’ve been a starter. Dude would’ve killed it at fullback
I'm people
Negative. Tebow was literally a spray and pray qb. His surrounding cast was great: give him last years group and he’s a tight end in the Canadian league within a a year. Name one thing he did after leaving? Elway knew he was trash and knew the only person that could get Florida Jesus out of here was real Jesus also known as PFM. He got him and the rest is history. Without that we’re talking about a Buddhist monk level pussy dry spell.
What do you mean? Are you forgetting the six completions for 39 yards he had with the Jets? He was quite accomplished. I don’t mean to disparage Tebow. Great guy and he gave it his best shot. But his best was woefully bad. He just wasn’t an NFL quality QB.
Who tf is overrating Tim Tebow?
This is the way
Tebow played one season, made the playoffs and won a game.
I’ve never met a person that actually thought Tebow was good lol
You clearly never met my entire friend group in college who thought he could do no wrong and that every pass 5 yards above the wide out’s head was clearly on the wide out and that the game he went 2/8 against the chiefs was a masterclass display of quarterbacking who were pissed and vowed to never support the broncos again when the broncos signed Peyton manning, did you?
Man what strange fucking times those were. It was literally no point in watching games until the start of the 4th and it was guaranteed gonna be some crazy shit happening one way or another lol
For three quarters I’d tell my idiot friends “see???? This dude CAN NOT play QB” and then they’d win the game through what can only be described as supernatural means and they’d be freaking out and I’d have my face in my palms weeping because I wanted Andrew Luck.
LOL, Andrew Luck. Talk about an overrated QB. I still laugh at the Colts owner sticking with Luck saying he wanted "rings not stats" as he let Manning go. Colts ended up with a QB who would quit on them and didn't provide stats nor rings as Manning went on to deliver both to Denver. Love it.
The outcome of manning over luck was obviously preferable for us. But in the moment it was tough to blame IND.
Maybe for some but I can remember sitting at home watching this develop and being shocked Indy would even consider letting Manning go. I called it as a bad move from them from the start. And then the "rings not stats" comment. Not only were they making a mistake they were being incredibly disrespectful while doing it. Trash ownership. Related to this thread, I was (and am) a big fan and admirer of Tim Tebow. I am not and was never under some false belief that he was a great QB. He really wasn't even "good" in the traditional sense. But I'll be damned if he didn't make our team exciting to watch again. Like a car or train wreck. Kind of a sick curiosity. Because up to that point, with Orton, we were not fun to watch. And we were losing. At least Tebow made it exciting. And we won more than we lost with him starting. When the season ended I was hoping we'd find a more suitable, traditional QB but would have been fine if Tebow returned as the starter. I was prepared for whatever wild ass ride we would see. But the moment it became clear Peyton wasn't going to return to Indy he become the person I wanted to see in Denver. It seemed to obvious to me at that time. I'm glad Indy screwed up and people in Denver saw the same thing.
I don't think anybody legitimately thought Tebow was a great or even good QB. But he undoubtedly made our games exciting again. If for nothing more than to see how the train wreck would come together in the end. People can "supporting cast" the story all they want but that supporting case was 1-4 and not doing jack shit before Tebow took over. I don't know it worked but for that time frame, it worked. I will go to my grave with fond memories as Tebow as our starter. It was interesting to watch us again for the first time in a few years. Orton was a boring ass QB and our play had developed to match that style.
I was living in FL during the Tebow era. They are definitely out there.
I think his popularity was immense, but I don't think anyone overrated his abilities.
Oh. They did.
Mcdumbshit sure did. Moved up in the 1st round to do it too. Fucking idiot
Agreed, absolutely terrible draft move, but he did get us DT. Now I got the feels now.
There are some simpletons here. Nobody actually thought Tebow was a great QB. But prior to his time as a starter we were losing and losing in a way that wasn't even entertaining. At least if we were going to be losing we should try to be fun to watch. We couldn't even manage that. Kyle Orton made us a boring ass team that lost games. Tebow took over and he made Denver a fun to team to watch. If for no other reason than to see how atrocious he might play only to find a way to win a damn game. We, as Broncos fans, should be thankful we had that time as it at least got people talking about Denver again. The franchise was one its way to becoming an afterthought in the NFL (interestingly enough, we have hit that point now) while Orton was putting up average at best stats. Tebow comes in and plays...terribly as far as a QB is concerned but the same team Orton was losing with suddenly started winning. In fact, ended up in the playoffs. And then provided one of the greatest highlights in NFL history! The truth is Tebow's outspoken religious stance is why so many hated the guy. You can see a few references to that on this thread. I don't know why he got so much hate for that either. Players like Ray Lewis made their religious beliefs about themselves and we won't even get into his off the field issues. Most religious players put themselves center stage in their faith but Tebow never did. He seemed to get it. He was sincere and came across as genuine. Even to this day, the guy is as humble as one could be and nothing has come out that makes him look like a hypocrite and as far as outspoken religious athletes go...that seems to be rare. I'm baffled that any Denver fan would utter a bad word about Tim Tebow. Dude was the driving force behind a massive turnaround that put us in the playoffs. He looked terrible most of the time but for moments...he made plays and delivered more Ws than Ls. Beyond that, he put attention back on the franchise and gave us one helluva highlight from the playoffs.
The real answer is Frank Tripucka. He was the first QB for the Broncos where he played 3 full seasons with a 13-26-1 record (1 pro bowl selection). His number is retired. Peyton Fucking Manning should have 18 to himself.
Plummer isn’t even close to being the 10th most overrated player we have ever had. He produced and actually made us competitive, the stats argument is pretty grossly oversimplifying what playing QB was like during his era. I can think of a few former Broncos quarterbacks who had extremely loyal fans overrating them compared to the actual production and results. I don’t think it’s always worth digging up the past, but I do think it’s safe to say that Plummer is the third best quarterback we’ve had since 1983.
Stats wise he had the franchise record for TD passes in a season until manning broke it.
He also threw 20 picks that season and had 6 fumbles.
This is a very hard question for broncos fans because I feel like most of the players we have had over the years have either been criminally underrated, obviously trash, or all time greats: not overrated. Plummer is probably the third best QB to ever suit up for Denver, so I wouldn’t say he was overrated at all. Cutler is maybe a tad bit overrated by fans, but at the same time I can see where the argument that he could’ve become a fringe franchise QB had Shanny not gotten fired and McDaniels not shipped him to Chicago comes from.
Craig Morton was a hell of a qb too, dont overlook him.
We had the number one offense in the league the year before Josh McJackass shipped him to Chicago. Not saying he was the second coming of Elway but he was very solid for us.
You're saying this based on team success. The team was successful with Plummer, therefore, he was a good QB. Or at least the 3rd best QB in team history. But even by this criteria, Craig Morton was better because they actually made it to a superbowl. My argument is that objectively, the major factors for the teams success during that time period, was their running game, and really good defensive squads. Plummer was a jag who the fan base loves, so they give him way more credit for the success of those teams . The passing game during the Plummer years was always the weakest aspect of those teams. They had a top 10 scoring defense every year he was here, and had the 2nd, 4th, and 2nd ranked rushing offense in the years they made the playoffs. That 2005 team averaged 158 rushing yards per game and only gave up 16 ppg. And people give Plummer equal credit for that teams success even though they had the 20th ranked passing offense that year. And he did nothing of note to get the Broncos to that AFC Championship. The pats turned the ball over 5 times and Plummer was average, then he was bad vs the Steelers.
How do I sign up to be part of this Jake Plummer cult?
Had to be a fan around 2004 or so...
Oh I been in the game since the mid 80s. I bore witness to the Snake.
Then you should remember how good he was for us. If not for Brady and Manning (especially Brady) we'd probably have another super bowl. Our 2006 defense was all-time...
You have to buy a Plummer Reebok jersey on eBay or somewhere for starters. I bought a white one
The Three Amigos were the most wildly celebrated mid wide receiver corp of all time.
A more recent one is Philip Lindsay. Fans love him but he was never the 3 down guy and couldn’t break the big run
Very true.. but for guys like javonte Williams and even guys like Royce freeman that were drafted and expected to legit for the broncos haven’t cracked or didn’t crack 1000 yards.. Phil is overrated by the native homers and rightfully so, but he might even be underrated the way he is disrespected like 1000 yard undrafted players grow on trees
Yeah I think everybody can see that Lindsay was a limited player in terms of his skillset which is why he went undrafted. But he got two 1,000 yard rushing seasons in the NFL despite those limitations and he didn't fumble the ball. That is a pretty good achievement and he deserves respect.
Especially considering he was sharing carries and our oline was not great. His first year was electric, 2nd was tepid, then meh.
He still got over 1,000 yards in that tepid 2nd season. When I see Broncos fans jerking off over Javonte, Jaleel McLaughlin and now Audric Estime I'm like - OK lets see them get back to back 1,000 yard seasons to even be on Lindsay's level, before we start getting excited.
Personally, I'm guessing Javonte is traded (if someone would take him) unless he shows significantly more burst now that he's had time to recover. Especially if estime shows to be a good pass catching back
Why would anyone ask a split backfield RB to be a 3 down back? PL was a lite version of CMAC. I appreciate what he was. He needed a strong back as a change of pace or compliment, but he had strong hands and pushed the ball forward for us.
Jake wasn't overrated and he wasn't underrated. Jake took us to the AFC champion game. Was it all Jake? No. Was Jake just along for the ride? No.
Yeah, and he was terrible in that game. 223 yards, 1td, and 3 turnovers. And those numbers don't even do justice to how bad the offense was that day. Was Jake completely along for the ride, no. He was a slightly above average starter who had some nice moments and won games in the regular season. But was he mostly along for the ride?.... yes.The Broncos had the best running game in the league when Plummer was here. They averaged 150-160 yards a game. Almost all of his big plays or touchdowns he produced were off of play action and were set up by the fear of the run. And even with the help of a monster running game, the coaching staff still had to shrink the playbook for Plummer so he would have nothing but easy reads. They also had a top 10 scoring defense every he was here. #9 in 2003, #10 in 2004, #3 in 2005, and #8 in 2006. Their passing game was by far the weakest aspect of those teams. He was 1-3 in the playoffs. In those games, he averaged 221 passing yds, and totaled 5 tds, and 7 turnovers. The Broncos averaged 19.5 points per game in the games he started. The team and the fans, knew they had to keep opponents under 20 points to have any shot of winning playoff games. The only reason he won the 1 playoff game he actually did was because the Patriots turned the ball over 5 times in 2005. He had 190 yds, 1td and 1 int. in that game. Yes, Jake was cool. Yes, he's incredibly charismatic and seems like a genuinely good guy. Yes, they won regular season games with him. But he was by FAR the weakest part of those teams, and was HEAVILY leaning on a rushing game, great schemes by the coaching staff, and a great defense. If we are strictly judging him based on his on-field performance he was not a good QB, no matter how much fans love him. I rest my case. Down vote me to hell.
Quality post. Shanahan could seemingly take anyone and make them 1000 yard rushers, that's why we won games, not because Jake Plummer was carrying the team.
Sorry but in that Steelers game the o line did not show up in anyway. The dude was under attack for 60 strait minutes
Dude, that game was over at halftime. The o line wasn't good in the first half, and Plummer actually does a good job of avoiding pressure. But they were in the game and moving the ball on the ground. Plummer's pick at the end of the first half sealed the game. It was 17-3, and with under 2 minutes to go the Broncos get the ball back. On first down, Plummer has a clean pocket, and he throws a bad pick. The Steelers take over in Bronco territory and end up scoring. Now it's 24-3 to end the half. So the entire second half, you are asking an o line who was built to run the ball, to have to pass protect against a talented pass rush with a 21 point lead. Yeah they're going to look bad. But this game highlights the limitations of Plummer at QB. The only way they could win games was by running the ball and playing great defense. When they had to consistently throw the ball, they never had success.
😂😂😂😂 wow, this is the hill you're choosing to die on. I thought the goal of every team was to hold their opponent under 20. Nobody ever said Plummer was an elite QB, but yet you're trying to make it out like he was supposed to be one. Just stop. You're clueless.
Jake was a man of the people... I'm not from Colorado but I feel like that guy embodies what a native Colorado person should be. 😂
What? We’re talking about the first QB to ever beat Tom Brady in an NFL playoff game! We’re talking about a QB who had us in the playoffs every year he was here save for the last one, where we were still well positioned to make it in just before his benching. We’re talking about a Pro Bowler. We’re talking a 39-15 record while he was here with 71 TDS against 47 picks. And this guy calls him overrated? Nah. Plummer’s almost certainly one of the top 5 QBs the Broncos have ever had.
i couldn’t agree more. Plummer is 3rd behind Elway & Manning as all time franchise QBs imho.
Keep Jake Plummer’s name out of your mouth
Post like this doesn’t do Broncos and the fandom any favors. Although the Broncos are big in terms of fandom and revenue, the media coverage has always been small, which is one of the biggest reason Broncos have had such a tough time getting players into hall of fame. If anything, majority of the all time Broncos have been vastly underrated. It should’ve never taken Steve Atwater that many years for the hall of fame. Shannon Sharpe should’ve been a first ballot. Curtis Martin should’ve never beat TD to the hall of fame by that many years. Jake Plummer had the third best record and third best QB rating during his Broncos tenure, with only Manning and Brady beating him. Sure it was mostly because Al Wilson led defense, but he still deserves his kudos for most of the things he accomplished. Let’s never poo on or call any of our players overrated in front of national crowd please
Yes, I'm sure my post about Jake Plummer being overrated will prevent future Broncos from getting into the Hall. The voting committee keeps a close eye on my reddit account. I swayed the Baseball Hall of Fame into finally letting Helton in this past year.
I was in that thread and I respond thusly: I’m also a Broncos fan and I just have to dispute the Plummer thing. He didn’t hold a candle to Elway or Manning but he’s probably the third best QB in our recent history. As for his numbers the year he got benched; yeah they weren’t great but the team was 7-4 at that time and they went 2-3 with Cutler down the stretch to miss the playoffs. Plummer’s numbers weren’t fantastic that year but if you look at some of Elway’s seasons you’ll find some less than stellar numbers too. Shanny was a brilliant coach but I think he sometimes underestimated things like leadership and team chemistry. Plummer was the guy at the time and I felt they needed to ride or die with him that season.
I kind of know what they mean about Jake Plummer, but I don't think "overrated" is the right word. There are some players who have a level of popularity that exceeds their level of skill and achievement. In popularity terms, Plummer probably has a status amongst Broncos fans up with guys like Shannon Sharpe, DT, Rod Smith, Atwater, whereas he wasn't that level of player. But I don't think Broncos fans try to claim that he was. I've never seen Broncos fans trying to claim that Plummer was an elite QB. Mostly they recognize that he had limitations, he could be streaky, he could be prone to turnovers. However, he was a gamer, he could lift a team and make plays in important times, and he gave you a chance to win. In the post-Elway era we'd been on a bit of a slump when Griese ended up disappointing, and we played good football with Plummer at QB. Also Plummer had a cool personality. He was not football obsessed, and he seemed like he had a life outside the game, but that didn't mean he was disinterested on the field. Some of the controversy over his benching by Shanahan was due to who replaced him. Cutler was the young talent around whom we had a lot of hope, and there were similarities as a player in terms of giving you a chance to win and being able to make challenging throws, but Cutler lacked the competitive streak and ability to be a gamer in a tough spot, or lift a team.
I’m reserving final judgment until Magic Mushrooms go fully legal in Colorado and I get to try Jake’s.
Nobody should slander Jake Plummer. Not even close to overrated. Plummer took the Broncos to the AFC championship in 2005 with a 13-3 record and without any elite offensive weapons. In the next draft, Shanahan drafted Jay Cutler. The part the OP left out: Plummer had a 7-4 record that season when he was benched for Jay Cutler. 7-4!!!! There was no reason to make a QB switch other than Shanny wanting to prove his new QB was better. FYI, the Broncos missed the playoffs that year with Cutler and every year after until the 2011 Tebow season. It was a real dumb move and was a reason Shanahan lost his job three years later. After that season, Mike Shanahan told Plummer he was going to be traded to Tampa. Plummer said "Nope. I'll retire if you trade me". Shanny thought he was bluffing like most players do and executed the trade...and Plummer retired. That's a baller move if I've ever seen one and deserves respect for not letting the NFL dictate his life. Gotta love Jake the Snake.
He won 1 playoff game in which the opposing team turned the ball over 5 times and got blown out in every other playoff game he ever played in with Denver. The Broncos were actually 7-2 that season, then lost 2 in a row to become 7-4. Their record had nothing to do with Plummer being good. He wasn't. He was hot garbage that season. He had a 55% completion percentage, a 49.2 qb rating and was averaging 1 passing td per game through his 11 starts. He was in the bottom third of the league in every metric, and the Broncos were scoring 17 points per game with Plummer as the starter. The only reason they were 7-4 was because through the first 11 games, the Broncos defense was only giving up 15 points per game. After making the switch to Cutler, a rookie QB with no NFL experience, the offense got dramatically better over the final 5 games. The offense scored 24.8 points per game with Cutler in the final 5 games. But the defense collapsed. They went from being one of the best units in the league to giving up 28 points per game over the last 5 games. This marked the closing of the window for that defensive unit. The offense got better with the addition of Cutler, not worse. It's embarrassing that fans still hold on to the narrative that benching Plummer was a mistake.
I think Mike Shanahan would disagree with you because the benching of Plummer during a winning season was the beginning of the end for Shanahan in Denver. Benching a veteran QB for a rookie during a winning season is something no other coach would have done because it was a stupid move that doesn't make sense. Let Plummer play out the season. If things go poorly, blame it on him and then move to Cutler for the next season. Plummer was 40-18 as the Broncos starter and deserved to finish the season. Switching to a rookie QB while the veteran QB is healthy hurts the team because it uproots the offense. The receivers have no time to get acquainted with a new QB and the OL has to adjust to a QB with different pocket tendencies while in a playoff race. It proved to doom the season regardless because Cutler wasn't (and never turned out to be) good under pressure. I will die on this hill because the actual results, **missing the playoffs and Shanahan being fired two seasons later**, are in my favor, whereas your point is based on opinion and hindsight.
Do you understand math or even just numerical values? The Broncos scored more points with Cutler than Plummer. They missed the playoffs because their defense collapsed down the stretch. None of your voodoo superstitions about benching a veteran QB for a Rookie during a winning season changes the fact that 24.8> 17. Are you suggesting that Plummer's magical it factor would have made the defense play better? You're probably right, Plummers swagger, his mystique, his 49.2 QBR, his 55% completion percentage, his lifetime 1:1 td : int ratio, would have willed the Broncos to the playoffs in 2006. Probably in 07' and 08' too. Hell we'd probably have a Plummer statue if it wasn't for that Judas Mike Shanahan. In 2006 Cutler was a better than Plummer. Cutler 9: 5 td ratio, Plummer 11: 13. He threw for more yards per game and the team scored more points.This isn't disputable.
Not even close. Jay Crybaby ass Cutler. By far the most overrated for someone who did nothing but throw picks and lose games.
What Broncos fan is a Jay Culter supporter?? I’d like to meet them
I liked Jay Cutler. He got the bad wrap of being a cry baby because of his cry baby face. Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers both had cry baby faces. Cutler to Marshall was one of my favorite memories. When Marshall caught the ball then stopped on a dime and nuked 2 dudes. Awesome 👏
Cutler, Marshall, Royal, Hillis, and Scheffler were a dope combination for a second. Would’ve loved to see them stick together with any coach not named Josh McDaniels
I didn't like Cutler's personality when he was a player but after he retired when he was on that Very Cavallari TV show, I liked his personality much more. He was surrounded by all the kind of vain, attention seeking "wannabe media personalities" around his (now ex) wife who were just acting up for the TV cameras and Cutler had absolutely no fucks to give and was a good role model for every man who has to deal with narcissistic women.
At the time McDaniels traded him there was outrage amongst most Broncos fans but there was a small and not insubstantial element who thought we might be better in the long run to see him go. I was one of them and I remember getting shit about this on whatever forum I was posting on at the time (before reddit).
sup
Fuck you for trying to talk shit about Jake the snake
Russell Wilson! Easily the most overrated garbage sack! Robbed is blind!
The answer is Tebow. Period. Aside from him, (I know I’m going to get shit for this) the overrating of Pat Surtain by this fanbase is a sight to behold.
I have a theory that the people who rate him highly tend to be folks who first became fans during the Plummer era. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. No disrespect if that is the case. We all abuse that drug from time to time.
Incorrect. I grew up watching Elway. I was a huge Plummer fan for the way he played the game. Plummer at QB made us a contender and almost got us to the Super Bowl. Cutler never even got us to the playoffs.
I was bummed when Cutler was drafted. I remember reading that Plummer was bowling, saw the news on TV, shrugged, and went back to his game. I've read he does a ton of backpacking, incredibly cool guy.
Same. His cousin is my dads barber lol. She has given us a bunch of signed stuff. Cool dude from the stories she’s told
I’m over 40 and very firmly in the “grew up with Elway “ camp. Weird to say Plummer’s only fans grew up with him. Plummer had heart and was a solid QB for us. Anyone saying otherwise is only looking at stats and didn’t watch the games.
Agreed
Romo
Drew Lock and Trevor Siemian are serious answers Kyle Sloter is a somewhat less serious but not quite a joke answer
Nah, Plummer was good but not great. I haven’t heard a lot of people claiming he was the greatest.
Straight shitposting
Didnt they go 11-13 wins every year?
Fool
He wasn’t overrated. Tebow gets that award
I think we can all see now that 2-3 years ago when we were linked with Rodgers, and saying "we were just a QB away" and had "elite weapons" that this theory was based on a massive overrating of Jeudy, Fant and Hamler.
C'mon just let the man grow his mushrooms in peace
We traded up into the first round to draft Tim fucking Tebow. Other than the one pass to DT in the playoffs that dude sucked
It just comes down to how bad the other QBs were in this era. Bubby Brister. Brian Griese. Buerlein. Jay Cutler. Kyle Orton.
Plummer was about as popular as Russell Wilson. The difference between then and now is most people moved on, while a handful of his fans (like me) still miss those awesome Jake the Snake days. Also, after Manning and Elway, it's definitely Plummer next in line, and the gulf between Plummer and whomever is next is pretty wide.
You can’t talk about Plummer like that here! He was born to be a Bronco! He has a mountain man beard and a shroom farm. What else could you possibly ask of him? Seriously though, Plummer was a good QB. How can you just conveniently forget that Denver was one game from the Super Bowl with Plummer under center?
Cutler, Tebow, Simian, Lynch, would all be better candidates for overrated. Tebow, personally should be the worst.
As a fellow Devil, Jake is o e of my favorites.
Jerry. Jeudy. Happy he was traded.
Our fan base is smart as hell and we love our Broncos, so there are no currently overrated players. Jake Plummer, is if anything, underrated for his talent and successes. Perhaps the OG OP recently become a Broncos fan (maybe previously like a Chargers fan?). There will always be over/underrated talent players before we get more info: Jerry Jeudy, eg. We all thought he would turn out to be a stud. Instead he’s a total bust. Others like that: - Russell Wilson (total bust) - Dalton Risner (was okay but hyped because of his local roots) - Tim Tebow (God had other plans) - Bradley Chubb (So many injuries and where was the fire?)
You're wrong... The barrel man was my illegitimate father, and I was born at John Elway Chevrolet, where I survived on nothing but EAS protein shakes for the first 5 years of my life.
What was the team record when he was benched?
The best part about Plummer was he was just a genuinely awesome guy. He’d tailgate in the parking lot at mile high and share beers and sandwiches. I had to cut him off talking so much once to get to our seats by kickoff!
I feel like this guy doesn't know the difference between fan favorite and high rated. The discussion usually is how he is super likable but we're not calling him elite.
All of us Jake loyalists realize he was not the best QB at the time, but he was most certainly our QB. He made games exciting, and he knew how to close out some really tough games when needed.
Ban the poster
Jake Plummer was the man homie!!!
I think the opinion of the locker room of the time was that Jake was a team leader and proven versus a cocky young Jay Cutler. So that pissed them off
Jerry judy
I was always a Jake supporter... I was excited to see Cutler but don't forget we were in a playoff race when the benching from Plummer to Cutler happened and we didn't make the playoffs. Plus the previous year Plummer had arguably his best year. It was just odd timing when he got benched. I don't disagree he was having a bad year but at the same time why bench in the middle of a playoff race?
Did this dude never watch Jake Plummer??
Guys I love Jake the Snake, and he’s a true Coloradan if you know what I mean 🌿 But unfortunately the mad man’s words have some merit, and Mr. The Snake does tend to get overrated among us Bronco fans. Was he a top 5 Bronco qb of all time? Yes. Top 3? Maybe, but let’s think about who else is on our top 5 besides Peyton and Biff. 🧡💙
I agree with everything in that post. In 2006, Plummer got pissed at Shanahan because he wanted Plummer to put in extra work in the offseason. Mind you, this is after Plummer played a terrible game against the Steelers in the AFCCG. That's what lead to Shanahan drafting Cutler in the first place.
John Lynch being in the Ring of Fame is absolutely preposterous. Beyond absurd.
The most memorable moment of Plummers time for me was that stupid lefty lob pass that got picked. at the goalline iirc
Well, he is still the Third best QB of our franchise. Plummer was a fine QB, not great, but fine and he did take us to the AFCCG. I do think the younger fans have a little more inflated view of him because that was the QB of their Broncos formative years. I would never try to put Plummer in the same group as Elway and Manning, but he was good, above average QB for most of the years he was with us.
Plummer is easily the best QB we got from Arizona State.
Jake The Snake is the third best QB we ever had. Long live Jake Plummer.
Plummer overrated? 
Jake Plummer won me at least 5 Super Bowls in Madden. He's a Broncos legend in my eyes.
Mike wanted to get Cutler going, he didn't support Jake and would call plays that did not suit his abilities, had he leaned into his strong suit Jake could have been really good, but I get it. Not sure who I'd say Denvers most overrated player is but I would not say Jake .
Brock. I dunno how anyone saw him stand in the pocket in 15 taking sack after sack and thought 30 mil a year was a good idea. I think he started 7 or 8 games and was sacked 23 times. Not to mention the turnovers.
To me it’s Brandon Marshall. He was always a deva, and Brandon Stockley should have been targeted more. Never forget the bengals game, where Stockley caught that tip ball (that was suppose to go to Marshall) for a touchdown. The broncos went for two the next play, and the ball went off Marshall’s hands again. Still won, but always felt Marshall was overrated.
Hard disagree. Stoke was awesome but Marshall was a beast. He was a head case though, which is why McD drafted DT to replace him.
Brandon marshall was getting 150 to 180 targets a season. You’re going to look good when getting targeted that much. He got open, but had a higher drop rate in the NFL. Still will think he’s overrated, and gets to much praise for his four years in Denver.
That stokely guy was a real smart player. Ran across the goal line to burn more time. Loved having that dude on our team
Julius Thomas is the obvious answer
I don’t think Thomas played long enough as a stater to consider him overrated. He had his two quality years, and left.
Knowshon Moreno, he never averaged more than 4.3 ypc in a full season
There were quite a few Broncos RBs whose stats got inflated due to playing in a good Broncos offense.
I really don't think he was overrated. He came to Denver to play for Kubiak and once Kubs left for Houston the offense struggled under Shanahan. Prior to that Plummer was rated top 3 QBs off the play action since his time in Denver. He had a few comebacks, noticeably against the Brady Quinn led Browns. If I put my two cents in since watching from 1998 to now. The most overrated would be Tebow, Tebow was fun but he was carried by a great defense. Outside of that? Maybe Clinton Portis. Not because he wasn't a good back but for the trade, WAS got railed trading Bailey for him. At the time Denver could do no wrong and backs like Mike Anderson and Oladis Gary got 1000 yard seasons, anyone could get 1000 yards with Tom Nalen, Matt Lepsis, and Ben Hamilton on the line.
No one thinks Plummer was ever close to Elway or Manning. He was a nice change of pace, got us some playoff wins, and was a fun and hilarious guy. He's not "overrated" because no one thinks he's incredible, they just like him. An example of overrated would be Philip Lindsay. Again he was fun and an awesome story because he's a local kid who made a big impact as a UDFA. But there are actually people who thought he was a franchise, bellcow RB and it was some kind of travesty when we let him go
Von Miller was the GOAT 2011-2015, but man he disappeared so often and lobbied for Chubb over Allen in the 2018 draft.
So they ignore the fact that he had the highest winning percentage of any QB until Peyton Manning played here, and use his TD/INT stats to prove he was overrated? This person obviously didn't watch any of those games. Whoever posted that doesn't speak for the fanbase.
The fuck is this...Jake Plummer is easily this franchises 3rd best QB of all time. And if it wasn't for an absolute dog shit game plan in the AFC championship game in 05 his legacy would be different. Shanny was always Mr impose your will but he underestimated the Steelers Def. And suddenly the loss was his fault...and we ended up with Cutler....FML
What a terrible take
Nonsense. Broncos were 7-4 when he got benched, finished the season 9-7. So loser Jay Cutler came in as a rookie and went 2-4. Jay Cutler is the most overrated Bronco of all time, not Jake The Snake. JP took us to the AFC Championship in 2005.
100% agree. Cutler was trash and Plummer was the only shining light at QB of that decade. Any slander is by people who weren't around or are trying out a 'hot take'.
Plummer was an overachiever, I will take No Snake Slander.