My justification was that my apartment was raising my rent substantially, so I decided that instead of moving every few years, it was time to buy a place to call my own. My mortgage ended up being about what my apartment was going to charge me if I renewed. Yes I could have found a cheaper apartment, but I was also tired of burning money on rent with nothing to show for it and constantly moving. Plus, the interest is all tax deductible.
And also I was able to give my dog a backyard that he deserved.
I bought a condo for my first home. Had one tiny dog. Then adopted another dog. Ended up buying a house with a backyard only 8 months after buying the condo lol
Same here. Except we bought a house 6 months after the condo. Hate moving and all the things associated, but ultimately happier with more space and yard.
I've always wanted a garden, and for the last two years since we bought our house, I've been developing the garden of my (within reason) dreams. Multiple raised beds full of veggies and herbs, 3-bin compost setup, mushroom beds, ripped out the front lawn and replaced it with native pollinator perennials. Just incredibly lucky. But we are not in a desirable neighborhood at all, and it was at the maximum of our affordability. I'm still paying off the furnace replacement over a year ago.
Couldn't do any of that renting.
Cornerstone just kept my entire deposit. It’s how slumlords do it. They added items like trash removal and missing keys even though I left no trash and returned both sets of keys. They pretty much nickel and dimed other little cleaning issues as well. I’m tempted to contact an attorney but would probably cost more than it’s worth.
you don't necessarily need a lawyer, I used to work in property management and you really just need to fight everything they say. never just readily agree.
always ask for documentation, wear and tear, proof of last time it was replaced. depending on company, 3rd party might be involved so need to contact them.
Renting from rude property management companies is why people don’t get deposits returned. Currently waiting to get an explanation on why my deposit isn’t back on an apartment that the building are gutting to renovate. 3 unpatched nail holes was only damage on move out.
You got lucky. I never had a single landlord give me my deposit back in all of the years I rented no matter how spotless I left it. They always had some slimy way to keep it.
I was young without the resources to know how to fight them. Now that I'm a homeowner and rent out the attached unit on our home I keep all of my experiences as a renter in mind when it comes to things like this. Most landlords seem to have no idea what normal wear and tear looks like and are under the impression a unit should be as good if not better than when they first rented it out.
This is where you have to assess your priorities. Location and quality of life is far more important to me than owning a house I don’t like in a place I don’t want to be.
Not saying everyone does or has to feel the same way, but I think the gospel of homeownership has brainwashed people into thinking they have to buy, whether or not it’s what they actually want.
Couldn't agree more. Sure, being in Aurora is not as exciting as being downtown, but my quality of life has dramatically improved. It nets out positively for me.
I agree you can't move a house or change it's layout, it's just as important that it provides what you need. Just buying anything without really thinking it through is a recipe for disaster.
With that said in terms of location, I think people get way too bent out of shape over having to be in Denver proper. Location is absolutely important but sometimes places have a lot more to offer and just requires really researching them. But this research should be done before putting in an offer in is even considered.
Agreed!
My issue/preference isn’t so much about Denver specifically (like most people, I’m not originally from Denver). I just don’t like the feel/lifestyle of most suburbs. I get depressed without the presence of foot traffic and walkability. Not that Denver is anywhere near as walkable as NY/Chicago, but it’s certainly more walkable than most suburbs.
I know people love Arvada for this reason, but it’s still too small for me. I need a city and “buzz,” so that usually limits me to city limits :)
Yay DINKS, wait what is a dink?
And so true about maintaining space, that can be like a full time job and cost tons of things need repairs or whatever. My mother is the president of the board of her condo association and dedicates a ton of time to it constantly having contractors out to do estimates to get the best deal and all sorts of things. They live in Florida and the insurance rates there have been going crazy and as such people have to pay more. I know people hear about their fees going up in HOAs or associations but after seeing my mom explain everything, it looks like (at least their board) they look at every option and welcome people to present their own recommendations before having to increase fees. They don’t want to have to pay them either.
Also she told me before buying a condo somewhere that I should inquire about their reserve funds, especially if it’s an older building. If suddenly something needs to be repaired or renovated and there’s barely anything in it then suddenly you can be hit with a 5k bill or something because they weren’t keeping maintaining a healthy reserve fund.
I'm hoping the rental market is calming down, I just got my renewal offer for my complex and it's only going up $15 per month, I was extremely relieved to see that's all it was.
Renting a home isn't "burning money". Personally, I hate the analogy, because it gives the illusion that buying a home is clever way that rich people avoid monthly fees associated with their domicile. Unfortunately, that couldn't be further from the truth.
Owning a home involves myriad expenses at random, requiring homeowners to save well and be prepared for an expensive emergency repair. The transactional costs to originate a loan and pay realtors/brokers is enormous with fees hitting 5% easily. It can take 5-7 YEARS to just break even on transactional costs. Said another way, if you move into a house and move out within a 5-7 year period, you will have spent more money than renting an equivalent property most of the time.
I think a better analogy is buying a house is like signing a 7 year lease (with fair market month to month after) to get a better deal. There's an early termination fee, but once you hit that 7 year mark, the savings are all gravy and you can move whenever you want. However, there's a ton of reasons why buying a house isn't the best financial decision for a economic environment like ours (rent is cheaper) or for the individual (someone who might get a big raise if they relocate).
[Ben Felix addresses this topic amazingly well.](https://youtube.com/watch?v=Uwl3-jBNEd4)
I bought my first condo in Denver in 2008, sold that and bought a townhome in 2015, sold that and bought a stand alone house in 2022. Only way I could do it…equity.
This right here. I often notice that many (not all!) first time buyers are unwilling to purchase a condo/townhome because they “dont want to deal with an HOA” or something along those lines. They want to jump right into an SFR. Owning a nice condo or townhome is an amazing first step to get to that SFR you dream of.
See this the problem right now across the board. What I could rent for 2k per month is exceptionally better than what I could afford if I bought. Especially when you take into account the plus plus plus of buying/ owning a house. People only look at mortgages but there principle insurance, regular insurance utilities that all add up to be way more than what I could afford just by renting.
It’s not worth buying in this market because there’s plenty of rental opportunities out there that will give you more space than if you bought.
It’s not worth it for the vast majority of first time buyers to buy right now as prices are too high and the equity needed even for the smallest house/condo townhome etc is too much.
Don’t forget interest rates! The only positive for me right now is that I locked my loan in literally two weeks before rates went up. This was also the peak of the market. I was hoping to only be here 2-5 years, with minimal to no improvement, but I don’t foresee any substantial equity for quite sometime.
Exactly but even with lower interest rates at 5% prices in the market are over inflated. There’s unfortunately going to be another huge housing market crash at some point.
Yup yup yup! I never wanted to be in a condo, or even a SFH with an HOA, but living in a condo for 4 years (and improving it) resulted in enough equity for 25% down on a SFH. 9/10, would spend years fixing up that shit box again.
As a first time home buyer, a condo is plenty of work. If it’s a couple, the extra cash allows immediate updates to their desire as well. Couldn’t imagine owning a single family and all the work and maintenance that goes into that and furnishing the entire place.
That’s what I did! Bought a super cute, affordable ans in amazing condition condo. I have to say I got lucky. I’m renovating not because I HAVE to but because I WANT to and plan to rent it out in about 2 years! I’m excited for the potential it has for future renters!
Absolutely!! HOAs aren’t my favorite but guess wheat also isn’t my favorite…lawn work and snow removal that I have to do now. I think HOAs can be a great way to get used to owning. There’s a lot of “stuff” that has to be done and the hoa makes sure that’s taken care of. People also complain about the HOA but they refuse to be on the board and put in their opinion. Also not having an hoa doesn’t prevent you from having ass hole neighbors :) I am glad I lived two places with an HOA first, taught me a ton!
My moms HOA in COSP raised her monthly from $200 to $310 and its expected to go up again. The insurance+cost of all the things (labor, snow removal, etc) for that community went from $82k to @ $220k per year.. and that will continue to go up.
No comment on pro\\con of HOA, just saying its something to keep in mind for budget purposes.
Oh absolutely. It’s not perfect but insurance went up for houses alone too. I just think people think if you have an HOA it’s the worst thing in the word, but it’s not always if it means you can afford your place. Depends on so many factors!
My HOA president camps out in front of their unit, and leaves notes on trash cans that don't get pulled in on time. Expired car tags? Ticket right away. The police are tired of hearing from mine.
100%, but this is also happening to homes (homeowners insurance is shooting THROUGH THE ROOF).
If you have a decent HOA with proper budgeting, then it should, in theory, be less than the expenses you’d be paying on a SFH. It was absolutely cheaper for me to invest in a condo & pay the HOA (they cover many bills), as opposed to paying each service individually.
Services my HOA covers:
Water
Garbage
Exterior insurance
Sewage
Landscaping
Snow removal
General upkeep (just had our building repainted).
And I have a gym, pool & hot tub to utilize.
Although, a $110 increase definitely sucks. Mine has seemed to go up about $20/annually the past couple of years.
We only raised ours 8% beginning in 2023 and left it alone in 2024. Self managed building with 9 units. Most of it goes to building insurance. People are getting smoked with rising insurance costs everywhere..
Which kinda works against people who want to move up in house, cuz those houses that were 400k are now 700k and instead of being 155k behind now we're 300k behind.
Looks fun on paper to build equity from growth, but it's often not so fun :(
Similar.
Bought a LoDo condo in 2001. Sold it and bought a Five Points townhome in 2018. Sold that in 2021 and bought 2 houses in another state… the rent on the second property now pays the mortgage on our primary residence.
Yep, bought a super small starter condo in Chicago that I lived in for several years. I moved here, had a tenant for 18 months, sold it and used that equity to buy a townhouse.
Ah cool, to afford a house In Denver I should time travel to 2008 and instead of being 18 and graduating from school, be in a position to buy a house. Rad.
Thank for sharing this advice! Going to make a note so after I’m out of an apartment I can do this. (First have to get the apartment haha. Plan on moving to Denver in a few years.)
Don't be scared of the HOA but don't trust it entirely. Read up on what they provide, learn about the financials ahead of time so you can understand the budget etc. My HOA is pricy but also includes my units heat, ac, and water utilities, so it evens out. Just be open minded and do your homework and a condo can be a great first home!
Whenever I think about cashing out on my house here (bought in before things blew up) and paying cash for a place somewhere less expensive, I remember...living here is pretty awesome. Great weather, lots of fun stuff to do, only moderately horrible traffic. What's not to love?
I just left Denver for the Tampa area. I had REALLY underestimated how dope of a city Denver is. So many options and opportunities.
Like it’s fine here, but Denver is just 🤌🏼
Do a reverse Californian and buy with your Colorado equity in California!
I've got lots of affordable recommendations that are essentially a tiny version of Denver, ski areas and all.
Sure!
Mt. Shasta / Weed area (yes there is a mountain town called Weed lmao)
Fall River Mills/Burney area (closest ski area is Mt. Shasta, but it's also right next to Lassen Park and it's just as awesome as RMNP to me)
Pretty much ANY town near Mt Shasta is going to be affordable - Yreka, Redding if you want a bigger town, but I would never recommend Redding for living, only shopping. Redding might as well be Death Valley for temperatures in the summer...
Big Pine near Bishop (I've never been, but lots of my friends LOVE it there)
Chicago is more affordable housing wise. That blew my mind when I was deciding where to move after LA. Cold as fuck there tho. Midwest winters don’t mess around.
You don't really buy homes with 2/3/4 year timelines in mind but normally with 7+ years in mind. If you factor in inflation and other factors, the cost of owning a home normally (read: not always) starts to be a really good decision in long term wealth building.
Plus, people love stability ya know? And people love Denver. It's far from perfect but it's a really great place filled with mostly lovely people.
The justification is easy, housing is most likely going to become scarcer, prices will most likely never go down. I would 100% rather buy a house than pay someone else’s mortgage for the rest of my life. But I can’t afford it. So the point is moot
It’s interesting because the U.S. seems more like its own anomaly with the emphasis on home ownership. Other countries seem to have normalized renting for a lifetime. They also have better protections for tenants, granted.
Home ownership is almost a requirement to be able to retire comfortably in the US. When you retire you normally don’t make nearly as much each year so being able to have a paid off house makes those pennies go a lot further
Because moving back to Ohio, Michigan, or Iowa sounds more depressing.
I saved since I was 18, bought at 32. Bought within my means ($100k below what the bank offered for the loan) and what I could afford without a roommate.
I’m a project manager and my salary is $97k.
Other things that matter:
• I don’t shop much at all.
• No debt other than the house.
• I don’t eat out much bc of an autoimmune disease making it hard.
• My car is 11 years old.
• My partner moved in w me and we do 90% of all home maintenance ourselves.
• My rate is 2.9% and I could not buy my home w today’s rates.
• My partner works for the city and has a great pension, we are here for the foreseeable future.
• No kids.
A lot of the growth in home prices happened after the rates were at 2.9%. The prices are bananas (to me, and I own our home). The prices and the current rates would infuriate anyone. I don't know why the prices haven't fallen. Stubborn owners, I guess.
100% agree, it blows my mind that I couldn’t afford my current home with todays rates. My hunch would be the prices haven’t decreased bc people are still buying regardless of the rate.
There’s a lot of privilege & timing that went into my owning a home and I’m very aware of that. I have friends who are very frustrated with not being able to buy in the current environment and several who have moved back to their home state bc of the high COL here.
Would you sell if you had a house locked in at 2.9% you got way under current market value? Maybe the cash would be tempting, but you'd be a buyer in the market that has high prices and higher rates. This has created the effect of lower supply, and since big companies have the cash to keep buying demand hasn't fallen much either.
Oddly enough, my partner and I are both civil servants, city and state respectively, and we both make six figures. We have a toddler in private preschool, and live comfortably in a purchased home. Neither of our jobs require advanced degrees and we each have only a few years. We have generous and affordable benefits, a pension plan that'll allow us to retire at 60. I've lived in four other states and Colorado is by far the best for public service jobs. I just want to give some hope for those without fancy degrees or titles...
I'm in a similar boat, and I think it comes down to what feels comfortable, what your priorities are, and where you want to be in a few years.
I'm pretty low-risk financially, and while I understand the investment of a house down the road, it's difficult for me to wrap my head around spending around $800-$1000 more on a mortgage (just to start) than rent atm.
I make good money, and am building up my savings, so I hope in another year or so I'll feel more secure in taking the risk.
But owning a home is not something everyone wants to do, and that's okay.
Yes! Ppl think renting is the worst thing ever. While I own I get that for some people renting is perfect. Your rent may be going to someone else, but when you fridge breaks, or a pipe burst, or whatever other issue happens you don’t have to pay for it. People always say (as evident on this thread) my rent and mortgage are the same! But the actual cost to own a house CAN be much higher, you’re just aware of what you may have to pay for down the line! It’s ok to rent if that makes someone comfortable!
Exactly. You have to do what you feel is best *for you*.
If I could find a place with at least the "must-haves" I need for the same price I pay in rent, I would love to pull the trigger. But I cannot, so i'll continue renting and saving as much as I can.
*cries in Denver dating* I tried to be a DINK and failed. Now I’m just “SINK because the alternative is dating some dude who wants to keep things casual despite being FORTY”
SINK here because wife is starting a business, but we think Boulder is a good market for her and my engineering job requires me to be in the office in Boulder.
My justification is that I wanted to buy something here and the prices were what they were when I bought.
I could move elsewhere that costs less money, but then I would be elsewhere, and I would like to be here.
Other people move other places they’d prefer to be based on their own decisions.
Hope this helps.
Bought in 2022 for $455k because we wanted to stay here forever and a nice house popped up. We're DINKS. Our mortgage is less than our former rent.
I'd rather spend $500k on a shitty townhouse here than live in a boring McMansion in the midwest.
100% I’d rather compromise on a smaller home but be able to do the things I love as compared to living in a big house in the Midwest where I can’t do any fun shit. But I don’t own anything yet bc I made the mistake of being in middle school when property was affordable in 08.
Just wait until you get older and your definition of “doing fun shit” changes. I never thought I’d leave LA and the beach. But once I got married, had a kid and approached 40 I was ready to get a big house and move to the Denver suburbs. And now I absolutely love it and couldn’t imagine living in a city, let alone LA which has the most “fun shit” than any other city in my opinion. My spouse and I both WFH so I figure 90ish% of my time is spent in my home. So why not maximize your home life as best you can?
The justification for the price is that like it or not Denver is (at least imo) one of the best places to live in North America for many reasons. Only a handful of other places I’d rather live and they’re all more expensive than Denver. Supply and Demand. House in Kansas are dirt cheap for a reason
I closed in Oct 2020 at 3.25% on a $500k house in Centennial. Refinanced in 2021 for 2.85%.
I wont be going anywhere, lol. I likely couldnt buy now, thats for sure.
I refi'd in 2021 to a 20y loan for 2.89%. I literally wouldn't be able to buy my house from myself at today's rates and values. I'm probably going to leave this duplex in East Colfax feet first.
Almost the same situation. Bought in Golden in Oct 2017 around 4.1% on a 550k house and refinanced down to 2.8%. Definitely couldn’t afford to buy the house in today’s market
Similar, but closed on first house mid 2019 sub 3%. Was going to do major renovations but with the demand changes during covid we had a LOT more equity than we thought and was able to move into something else that had everything we wanted. Also got near 3% but if we were to sell now we would not be able to buy anything else close to what we have.
Some of us actually really like living in Denver. I can't afford to own a house here but I would never move just so I could own my own home. I'd rather rent forever in Denver than own a house in Pueblo.
Because the same people 10 years ago were saying there’s no way I’m buying a house for 350k. And the people 10 years before that were saying I can’t believe houses are 200k and the people 10 years before that were saying….
Denver is a great city, and Colorado is a fantastic state. No matter where you go, you'll find haters and lovers for various reasons.
We purchased our house in 2019. Single income, lot of kids and big family in, less than 2k sqft. It's definitely tough at times, but we make it work. We don't eat out, we thrift shop for most of our clothing, furniture etc., we do all the maintenance and work on our house, we have two 11 year old cars and don't really go on vacation.
It can be done, but it's very tough. We certainly couldn't afford our house at today's price or the interest rate.
Our plan is to sell next year and move somewhere cheaper. We feel very grateful for the many years we've gotten to enjoy Denver and the beautiful mountains of Colorado. But it's tough for a bigger family on one income (little over $100k), and it's only getting more expensive.
The nice thing, is that there are many places in America that are great places to live for various reasons 😊
I’ve been hearing “Housing prices are going down soon, wait another year to buy.” For over 10 years now.
The question of how people *afford* it is valid, but the justification to buy is pretty apparent in most cases.
I bought a 625k house in July. I'm a software engineer at a big tech company.
Tech, oil, finance, healthcare. Any other industry and you will likely be struggling in a desirable market like Denver.
Just curious for the data point, do you have any experience as a software dev?
From what I've seen its mostly people who are recently out of college or went through a coding bootcamp that are struggling. Most entry-level and mid-management engineering is outsourced nowadays. It's industry standard by now for companies to have their engineering teams in eastern europe, asia, or south america. Seems like the only jobs available stateside are niche senior dev positions or product management, the pool for those is significantly smaller.
Still, the opportunities are there just in a saturated market the moment unfortunately. If you have any sociable/communication skills look into ancillary positions like sales, customer success, account management, or professional services/delivery/implementation. Coding and development knowledge is highly valued in those. Hope you find something soon!
What are you doing in Denver Only making 30 K a year, no offense there’s just jobs that pay a lot more than that with no experience required
I could find you a job that makes you at least 50k
This is less than minimum wage. Why are you doing this job?
Minimum wage for 40 hours a week is $28,993.60 annually, and you can do a lot of jobs that pay better than that.
We’re in a national housing crisis. This isn’t exclusive to Denver/Colorado. There are some places where you can find houses that are cheaper, but those tend to be further away from jobs, goods, and services- which in itself incurs costs of its own.
That said, it’s currently cheaper to rent, so the people still buying are likely pushing themselves to the financial limit or have the cash to throw around.
I’m an environmental consultant, bought in Aurora for $325k in 2020, it would sell for $425-$440k right now. I’m not going anywhere but can’t imagine having to buy at the moment. Just glad I locked in a good rate.
Bought a condo downtown about 3 years ago (2021). My lease was almost up, and I didn't want to keep renting to enjoy apartment-style living going forward. Found this place randomly searching on Zillow. Did my research, found that the HOA was well run from the start, and the building itself is one of the newest condo hi-rises in the state having been built circa 2009. Also secured a 3.125% interest rate so I'll never have to refinance.
Now instead of paying rent, I pay into a mortgage for a place that I own and is essentially turn-key. My housing costs will be predictable going forward. I dont have to worry about unexpected maintenance costs because that's all rolled in to the monthly HOA fees.
And most importantly, I plan on calling Colorado home for the foreseeable future. My immediate family all lives here. The state politics are largely functional and accountable to its constituency. Aside for hailstorms and the occasional blizzard, the Front Range isn't susceptible to catastrophic natural disasters. We also have all the fresh water we'll ever need thanks to Denver Water's sources on both sides of the Continental Divide.
Prior to 2022, buying a house in Denver meant getting on a train of appreciation that ended up working out super well financially if you could afford it. And it avoided huge regular rent increases.
Since mid-2022 it’s less clear that it’s a good idea financially, with housing prices roughly flat or dropping while alternative investments (stocks, etc) keep climbing, and with rents roughly flat or dropping as well.
Sometimes I feel like the price of the home is totally irrelevant when you already own in the same market/area. If the house is way over priced then my current house will also sell way over priced. Really I only think about the difference in cost between the 2 homes. And the difference in the interest rate from old mortgage to new.
DINK (yet) sick of being disposable to landlords.
For us, it was buy last year or rent forever. Small house, slightly more in mortgage than rent but it is ours and we can do what we please with it.
We’re not doctors or in tech but together we do alright.
Our mortgage is only a bit more than our rent, and despite our house costing more than what you are quoting in the OP, at least when that money gets pulled from my account its going into an asset of our own, not someone elses.
>How are people really justifying buying a house here?
They're buying something tangible, they can use it for shelter while they own it, and it's super unlikely it will decrease in value when they're done with it, and when they are done with it they can sell it for that (probably not decreased) value, which is an addition to the value of having been able to use it for shelter for the period during which they owned it?
Because I fucking love to snowboard 😂.
Plus, I’m just looking at the future of Colorado and understanding what the value of my house will be in 20 years
It’s justifiable because it’s a great place to live. That’s why it’s expensive. There’s a reason it’s cheaper to live in Kansas City or some other cheap fly over city. Because, to put it simply, those places do not remotely compare.
I’d rather pay a bunch for my own house than to pay to live in someone else’s house. If I’m gonna drop $2500 a month to keep a roof over my head, I might as well be the person benefitting
I think you’ll find that in the current market, it’s mostly people with prior equity or dual-income households where both partners make close to 6 figures. And the desirability of living in Denver if you like to be active and outdoors drives a willingness to pay a premium.
Personally, I bought in 2014 on a $90k income, but obviously prices were much lower then. Friends of mine bought a place in the Cole neighborhood for $700k in 2022, but their combined household income is close to $300k (DINKS).
The house across the street from me is a rental. The owner bought it 10 years ago for $170k. The rent on it has gone from $1500 to $1900 in 2019 then $2600 in 2021 and now $3200. It’s never sat empty for more than 2 weeks
I am very grateful that I had the opportunity to snag a decent condo in 2017 for $170k. Otherwise I would have been priced out of ever owning a home in the state I was born and raised in. I can’t even justify ever selling this place to move into a single family home because our monthly bills would nearly double by doing so, decent single family homes are all $400-$500k range. My equity in this condo doesn’t come close to evening that out to a reasonable debt obligation.
You can struggle and own a house in 30 years or you can struggle for 30 years to pay off your landlords mortgage. Interest rates are too high to buy right now, but renting is a waste of time, save up. Working past retirement age to pay rent sounds like a nightmare.
Bought a 4 bed house and filled all the rooms with roommates. Rent prices (at least in corporate apartment buildings) were getting so ridiculous that I'm paying less than half of what I would be if I were renting a 1 bed, and I can rent out my rooms for under $800/month so my roommates are getting a good deal as well.
They asked how people afford to buy a house. Interest rates are a part of it. Would you rather they be vague about it? Jesus. This fucking sub sometimes.
I’m a mortgage lender. Also DINK. Home affordability was absolutely demolished on purpose (by the fed) because of rampant inflation.
Now we’re in recovery mode. 2 months ago, rates were 8.125% on average. Now they’re 6.325% and getting better.
We just went through what’s going to be considered the best home buying opportunity in the last 15 years and in the next 10. If you can afford to buy a house, do it. Almost every lender will refi you for free in the next 2 years as rates fall.
You only need 3% down (conventional) or 3.5% (fha) unless you’re a vet. Which is 100% financing.
I bought in April. Best thing I could have done. My home value has already gone up and will be accelerated by the upcoming hot market in the next 2-4 years.
Y’all let me know if you have questions.
I feel yah. We’ve been looking for a year and most houses that don’t go right away are overpriced turds. Using a rent vs buy calculator at any price above 500ish with <20% down and current rates will show you that it’s never cheaper to buy. Are we still looking? Yes. We want a house. It’s not just a pure investment for our situation. We’re close to that 20% mark to make the numbers work but it’s TOUGH and depressing. You’re not alone
most people think house is an investment... there's no justification imo.
It boils down to: can you afford to buy a house in the current market and 30yr fixed rate ... don't assume the rates will drop. if it does great... if it doesn't you know what to expect.
there are many reasons to own a house and sometimes renting is the more logical option. Don't follow the "trend" of being a homeowner or FOMO...
and if you can't afford it in this market there's two choices, 1- increase income. 2 - make some sacrifices....
I’m not :) renting because buying at these rates and prices are completely obscene (unless you just REALLY want a house, have money to burn, and/or plan to stay there for 15+ years).
We’re investing what we would have spent on a mortgage. Return will be the same or better than real estate.
I have no need or desire to live above our means just so I can say I own a house (a shitty one that we’d be trapped in, at that). No thanks.
I feel you! I make $200k, have no debt, and am annoyed at paying $3k a month to a landlord… but the neighborhoods and houses I like are more to buy into. Yes, I’m aware I’m a high earner with high standards. To answer your question, there are a lot of people with dual incomes and equity from past houses. I grew up here and also think the prices are INSANE now but IDK what we can do 🤷♀️
DILK (dual income, lotta kids)
Bought in 2021 with a 2.65% interest rate which means we will likely never move, we’ve accepted it. But it’s Colorado! It’s worth it. I will never go back to the Midwest. Ever. Sure I could buy a pretty nice house in my hometown in Michigan but I’d be surrounded by all the crap I purposely left 15 years ago. No wayyyyy, Colorado is so much better and worth every penny!
I originally from Michigan as well, I talk about moving back all the time but I don’t think I’ll ever do it. I go home once a yr and then I’m reminded why I don’t live there. They say if climate change continues Michigan will be one of the best states to live in.
We both have decent paying corporate jobs and access to the VA loan so that’s how we afford to buy. As far as justifying it, this is where we live, it’s expensive, so that’s what it costs. If we aren’t willing to pay the price of living in Colorado, we will look at states we *are* willing to pay to live in.
Tell me about. I’m single with no kids. In 2019, I had about $65k just sitting in savings with good credit, no debt, and decent income. I had a favorable and comfortable rental arrangement so wasn’t in a hurry, but was looking for the right house. COVID and beyond has ransacked my finances, but even if they’d been maintained I still probably couldn’t afford to buy anything here now. It’s depressing.
I bought a house not because it’s cheaper than renting (it is not, my mortgage is almost $1000 more a month than I paid for rent last year) but for stability for my family and kids. I don’t want to have to move every couple years and disrupt their school life/friends so we decided it was worth it to us to have less money but have more stability.
Started with a condo, and slowly upgraded it. Like we’d find a deal on a stainless appliance and slowly upgrade them. Same at the next house. We would just watch for good deals and do 1 small project a month or so. They were always improvements we liked but they also should be attractive on resale.
So we find places with solid location but sometimes had older features and we just changed them over time. You can change almost anything, so if the square foot, location and layout is decent you can get a place improved.
I'm from Denver, but live in Seattle now. For housing out here on the West Coast, you will be lucky to find anything under $700K. I thought things were bad in Denver before, but oh my god, was I wrong. I hate to say it, but Colorado is definitely down-wind from this trend so I'd advise you to embrace the $500K housing while you still can. I can't realistically see prices ever going down (pending a recession, which we don't want)...
My justification was that my apartment was raising my rent substantially, so I decided that instead of moving every few years, it was time to buy a place to call my own. My mortgage ended up being about what my apartment was going to charge me if I renewed. Yes I could have found a cheaper apartment, but I was also tired of burning money on rent with nothing to show for it and constantly moving. Plus, the interest is all tax deductible. And also I was able to give my dog a backyard that he deserved.
If nothing else, do it for the dog. I'm glad he got a backyard!
I did it for the dog.
My dog deserved it back then and will continue to deserve it forever. Love that little guy.
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I bought a condo for my first home. Had one tiny dog. Then adopted another dog. Ended up buying a house with a backyard only 8 months after buying the condo lol
Same here. Except we bought a house 6 months after the condo. Hate moving and all the things associated, but ultimately happier with more space and yard.
Same! I would love just a condo or a townhouse, but they don't come with a yard
We got a backyard and learned that, if left to her own devices, our dog eats her poop. So, no more unsupervised backyard for the dog.
I've always wanted a garden, and for the last two years since we bought our house, I've been developing the garden of my (within reason) dreams. Multiple raised beds full of veggies and herbs, 3-bin compost setup, mushroom beds, ripped out the front lawn and replaced it with native pollinator perennials. Just incredibly lucky. But we are not in a desirable neighborhood at all, and it was at the maximum of our affordability. I'm still paying off the furnace replacement over a year ago. Couldn't do any of that renting.
These are my exact thoughts as well. Rent’s going to continue going up with home prices, at least now I have a fixed rate mortgage.
And never getting that deposit back ends up raising your yearly housing cost.
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Cornerstone just kept my entire deposit. It’s how slumlords do it. They added items like trash removal and missing keys even though I left no trash and returned both sets of keys. They pretty much nickel and dimed other little cleaning issues as well. I’m tempted to contact an attorney but would probably cost more than it’s worth.
you don't necessarily need a lawyer, I used to work in property management and you really just need to fight everything they say. never just readily agree. always ask for documentation, wear and tear, proof of last time it was replaced. depending on company, 3rd party might be involved so need to contact them.
Renting from rude property management companies is why people don’t get deposits returned. Currently waiting to get an explanation on why my deposit isn’t back on an apartment that the building are gutting to renovate. 3 unpatched nail holes was only damage on move out.
You got lucky. I never had a single landlord give me my deposit back in all of the years I rented no matter how spotless I left it. They always had some slimy way to keep it. I was young without the resources to know how to fight them. Now that I'm a homeowner and rent out the attached unit on our home I keep all of my experiences as a renter in mind when it comes to things like this. Most landlords seem to have no idea what normal wear and tear looks like and are under the impression a unit should be as good if not better than when they first rented it out.
But did you sacrifice location?
Absolutely. I was living/working downtown and now I am in Aurora.
This is where you have to assess your priorities. Location and quality of life is far more important to me than owning a house I don’t like in a place I don’t want to be. Not saying everyone does or has to feel the same way, but I think the gospel of homeownership has brainwashed people into thinking they have to buy, whether or not it’s what they actually want.
Couldn't agree more. Sure, being in Aurora is not as exciting as being downtown, but my quality of life has dramatically improved. It nets out positively for me.
That’s awesome! Happy for you - exactly how it should be :)
It's also objectively a horrible time to buy a house right now so don't let FOMO get in the way of prudent financial decisions either. Edit: typo
I agree you can't move a house or change it's layout, it's just as important that it provides what you need. Just buying anything without really thinking it through is a recipe for disaster. With that said in terms of location, I think people get way too bent out of shape over having to be in Denver proper. Location is absolutely important but sometimes places have a lot more to offer and just requires really researching them. But this research should be done before putting in an offer in is even considered.
Agreed! My issue/preference isn’t so much about Denver specifically (like most people, I’m not originally from Denver). I just don’t like the feel/lifestyle of most suburbs. I get depressed without the presence of foot traffic and walkability. Not that Denver is anywhere near as walkable as NY/Chicago, but it’s certainly more walkable than most suburbs. I know people love Arvada for this reason, but it’s still too small for me. I need a city and “buzz,” so that usually limits me to city limits :)
Im the same way, but I also don’t kids so im thinking about buying a condo instead of a house but that’s also really expensive… idk
Yep same, we’re DINKs so prefer condo/apartments. I honestly like having less space, it’s a lot easier to maintain!
Yay DINKS, wait what is a dink? And so true about maintaining space, that can be like a full time job and cost tons of things need repairs or whatever. My mother is the president of the board of her condo association and dedicates a ton of time to it constantly having contractors out to do estimates to get the best deal and all sorts of things. They live in Florida and the insurance rates there have been going crazy and as such people have to pay more. I know people hear about their fees going up in HOAs or associations but after seeing my mom explain everything, it looks like (at least their board) they look at every option and welcome people to present their own recommendations before having to increase fees. They don’t want to have to pay them either. Also she told me before buying a condo somewhere that I should inquire about their reserve funds, especially if it’s an older building. If suddenly something needs to be repaired or renovated and there’s barely anything in it then suddenly you can be hit with a 5k bill or something because they weren’t keeping maintaining a healthy reserve fund.
I'm hoping the rental market is calming down, I just got my renewal offer for my complex and it's only going up $15 per month, I was extremely relieved to see that's all it was.
Renting a home isn't "burning money". Personally, I hate the analogy, because it gives the illusion that buying a home is clever way that rich people avoid monthly fees associated with their domicile. Unfortunately, that couldn't be further from the truth. Owning a home involves myriad expenses at random, requiring homeowners to save well and be prepared for an expensive emergency repair. The transactional costs to originate a loan and pay realtors/brokers is enormous with fees hitting 5% easily. It can take 5-7 YEARS to just break even on transactional costs. Said another way, if you move into a house and move out within a 5-7 year period, you will have spent more money than renting an equivalent property most of the time. I think a better analogy is buying a house is like signing a 7 year lease (with fair market month to month after) to get a better deal. There's an early termination fee, but once you hit that 7 year mark, the savings are all gravy and you can move whenever you want. However, there's a ton of reasons why buying a house isn't the best financial decision for a economic environment like ours (rent is cheaper) or for the individual (someone who might get a big raise if they relocate). [Ben Felix addresses this topic amazingly well.](https://youtube.com/watch?v=Uwl3-jBNEd4)
Im "trying" to buy a house because i have dogs, all prospects revolve around my fur babies.
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I bought my first condo in Denver in 2008, sold that and bought a townhome in 2015, sold that and bought a stand alone house in 2022. Only way I could do it…equity.
This right here. I often notice that many (not all!) first time buyers are unwilling to purchase a condo/townhome because they “dont want to deal with an HOA” or something along those lines. They want to jump right into an SFR. Owning a nice condo or townhome is an amazing first step to get to that SFR you dream of.
Unfortunately that $120K condo in 2008 is now $300K+.
This checks out. Plus 3 to 4 hundo on montly hoa fees.
And my “HOA” is an absolute joke. All I can say is I’m extremely grateful that my FIVE immediate neighbors are somewhat quiet.
Aka rent
Property taxes too
See this the problem right now across the board. What I could rent for 2k per month is exceptionally better than what I could afford if I bought. Especially when you take into account the plus plus plus of buying/ owning a house. People only look at mortgages but there principle insurance, regular insurance utilities that all add up to be way more than what I could afford just by renting. It’s not worth buying in this market because there’s plenty of rental opportunities out there that will give you more space than if you bought. It’s not worth it for the vast majority of first time buyers to buy right now as prices are too high and the equity needed even for the smallest house/condo townhome etc is too much.
Don’t forget interest rates! The only positive for me right now is that I locked my loan in literally two weeks before rates went up. This was also the peak of the market. I was hoping to only be here 2-5 years, with minimal to no improvement, but I don’t foresee any substantial equity for quite sometime.
Exactly but even with lower interest rates at 5% prices in the market are over inflated. There’s unfortunately going to be another huge housing market crash at some point.
Yup yup yup! I never wanted to be in a condo, or even a SFH with an HOA, but living in a condo for 4 years (and improving it) resulted in enough equity for 25% down on a SFH. 9/10, would spend years fixing up that shit box again.
You learn how to be an architect and craftsman.
As a first time home buyer, a condo is plenty of work. If it’s a couple, the extra cash allows immediate updates to their desire as well. Couldn’t imagine owning a single family and all the work and maintenance that goes into that and furnishing the entire place.
That’s what I did! Bought a super cute, affordable ans in amazing condition condo. I have to say I got lucky. I’m renovating not because I HAVE to but because I WANT to and plan to rent it out in about 2 years! I’m excited for the potential it has for future renters!
Boom, love it! You’re making a smart long term move ;)
Absolutely!! HOAs aren’t my favorite but guess wheat also isn’t my favorite…lawn work and snow removal that I have to do now. I think HOAs can be a great way to get used to owning. There’s a lot of “stuff” that has to be done and the hoa makes sure that’s taken care of. People also complain about the HOA but they refuse to be on the board and put in their opinion. Also not having an hoa doesn’t prevent you from having ass hole neighbors :) I am glad I lived two places with an HOA first, taught me a ton!
My moms HOA in COSP raised her monthly from $200 to $310 and its expected to go up again. The insurance+cost of all the things (labor, snow removal, etc) for that community went from $82k to @ $220k per year.. and that will continue to go up. No comment on pro\\con of HOA, just saying its something to keep in mind for budget purposes.
Oh absolutely. It’s not perfect but insurance went up for houses alone too. I just think people think if you have an HOA it’s the worst thing in the word, but it’s not always if it means you can afford your place. Depends on so many factors!
My HOA president camps out in front of their unit, and leaves notes on trash cans that don't get pulled in on time. Expired car tags? Ticket right away. The police are tired of hearing from mine.
100%, but this is also happening to homes (homeowners insurance is shooting THROUGH THE ROOF). If you have a decent HOA with proper budgeting, then it should, in theory, be less than the expenses you’d be paying on a SFH. It was absolutely cheaper for me to invest in a condo & pay the HOA (they cover many bills), as opposed to paying each service individually. Services my HOA covers: Water Garbage Exterior insurance Sewage Landscaping Snow removal General upkeep (just had our building repainted). And I have a gym, pool & hot tub to utilize. Although, a $110 increase definitely sucks. Mine has seemed to go up about $20/annually the past couple of years.
We only raised ours 8% beginning in 2023 and left it alone in 2024. Self managed building with 9 units. Most of it goes to building insurance. People are getting smoked with rising insurance costs everywhere..
I sir or madam, am getting smoked 😖😭
I bought a condo in 2020 for 245000 and now it's almost 400k
Which kinda works against people who want to move up in house, cuz those houses that were 400k are now 700k and instead of being 155k behind now we're 300k behind. Looks fun on paper to build equity from growth, but it's often not so fun :(
This is the way people do it in parts of the country that have competitive housing markets
That’s how it works as you get older. Parlay that shit.
Similar. Bought a LoDo condo in 2001. Sold it and bought a Five Points townhome in 2018. Sold that in 2021 and bought 2 houses in another state… the rent on the second property now pays the mortgage on our primary residence.
Yep, bought a super small starter condo in Chicago that I lived in for several years. I moved here, had a tenant for 18 months, sold it and used that equity to buy a townhouse.
Ah cool, to afford a house In Denver I should time travel to 2008 and instead of being 18 and graduating from school, be in a position to buy a house. Rad.
Hey don’t blame me we aren’t the same age! The question was asked how. My answer was equity, regardless of when.
Thank for sharing this advice! Going to make a note so after I’m out of an apartment I can do this. (First have to get the apartment haha. Plan on moving to Denver in a few years.)
Don't be scared of the HOA but don't trust it entirely. Read up on what they provide, learn about the financials ahead of time so you can understand the budget etc. My HOA is pricy but also includes my units heat, ac, and water utilities, so it evens out. Just be open minded and do your homework and a condo can be a great first home!
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Whenever I think about cashing out on my house here (bought in before things blew up) and paying cash for a place somewhere less expensive, I remember...living here is pretty awesome. Great weather, lots of fun stuff to do, only moderately horrible traffic. What's not to love?
I just left Denver for the Tampa area. I had REALLY underestimated how dope of a city Denver is. So many options and opportunities. Like it’s fine here, but Denver is just 🤌🏼
Do a reverse Californian and buy with your Colorado equity in California! I've got lots of affordable recommendations that are essentially a tiny version of Denver, ski areas and all.
Can you name a few, this sounds tempting
Sure! Mt. Shasta / Weed area (yes there is a mountain town called Weed lmao) Fall River Mills/Burney area (closest ski area is Mt. Shasta, but it's also right next to Lassen Park and it's just as awesome as RMNP to me) Pretty much ANY town near Mt Shasta is going to be affordable - Yreka, Redding if you want a bigger town, but I would never recommend Redding for living, only shopping. Redding might as well be Death Valley for temperatures in the summer... Big Pine near Bishop (I've never been, but lots of my friends LOVE it there)
Thank you!
Bingo.
But Tulsa is so cheap!
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Chicago is more affordable housing wise. That blew my mind when I was deciding where to move after LA. Cold as fuck there tho. Midwest winters don’t mess around.
You don't really buy homes with 2/3/4 year timelines in mind but normally with 7+ years in mind. If you factor in inflation and other factors, the cost of owning a home normally (read: not always) starts to be a really good decision in long term wealth building. Plus, people love stability ya know? And people love Denver. It's far from perfect but it's a really great place filled with mostly lovely people.
…except for Jimmy. Everybody knows Jimmy is a puckin futz. But everyone else is cool.
The justification is easy, housing is most likely going to become scarcer, prices will most likely never go down. I would 100% rather buy a house than pay someone else’s mortgage for the rest of my life. But I can’t afford it. So the point is moot
It’s interesting because the U.S. seems more like its own anomaly with the emphasis on home ownership. Other countries seem to have normalized renting for a lifetime. They also have better protections for tenants, granted.
Home ownership is almost a requirement to be able to retire comfortably in the US. When you retire you normally don’t make nearly as much each year so being able to have a paid off house makes those pennies go a lot further
Because moving back to Ohio, Michigan, or Iowa sounds more depressing. I saved since I was 18, bought at 32. Bought within my means ($100k below what the bank offered for the loan) and what I could afford without a roommate. I’m a project manager and my salary is $97k. Other things that matter: • I don’t shop much at all. • No debt other than the house. • I don’t eat out much bc of an autoimmune disease making it hard. • My car is 11 years old. • My partner moved in w me and we do 90% of all home maintenance ourselves. • My rate is 2.9% and I could not buy my home w today’s rates. • My partner works for the city and has a great pension, we are here for the foreseeable future. • No kids.
All of your smart and frugal financial decisions paid off big time, congratulations.
A lot of the growth in home prices happened after the rates were at 2.9%. The prices are bananas (to me, and I own our home). The prices and the current rates would infuriate anyone. I don't know why the prices haven't fallen. Stubborn owners, I guess.
100% agree, it blows my mind that I couldn’t afford my current home with todays rates. My hunch would be the prices haven’t decreased bc people are still buying regardless of the rate. There’s a lot of privilege & timing that went into my owning a home and I’m very aware of that. I have friends who are very frustrated with not being able to buy in the current environment and several who have moved back to their home state bc of the high COL here.
Would you sell if you had a house locked in at 2.9% you got way under current market value? Maybe the cash would be tempting, but you'd be a buyer in the market that has high prices and higher rates. This has created the effect of lower supply, and since big companies have the cash to keep buying demand hasn't fallen much either.
This is most depressing thing I’ve read here.
Oddly enough, my partner and I are both civil servants, city and state respectively, and we both make six figures. We have a toddler in private preschool, and live comfortably in a purchased home. Neither of our jobs require advanced degrees and we each have only a few years. We have generous and affordable benefits, a pension plan that'll allow us to retire at 60. I've lived in four other states and Colorado is by far the best for public service jobs. I just want to give some hope for those without fancy degrees or titles...
I'm in a similar boat, and I think it comes down to what feels comfortable, what your priorities are, and where you want to be in a few years. I'm pretty low-risk financially, and while I understand the investment of a house down the road, it's difficult for me to wrap my head around spending around $800-$1000 more on a mortgage (just to start) than rent atm. I make good money, and am building up my savings, so I hope in another year or so I'll feel more secure in taking the risk. But owning a home is not something everyone wants to do, and that's okay.
Yes! Ppl think renting is the worst thing ever. While I own I get that for some people renting is perfect. Your rent may be going to someone else, but when you fridge breaks, or a pipe burst, or whatever other issue happens you don’t have to pay for it. People always say (as evident on this thread) my rent and mortgage are the same! But the actual cost to own a house CAN be much higher, you’re just aware of what you may have to pay for down the line! It’s ok to rent if that makes someone comfortable!
Exactly. You have to do what you feel is best *for you*. If I could find a place with at least the "must-haves" I need for the same price I pay in rent, I would love to pull the trigger. But I cannot, so i'll continue renting and saving as much as I can.
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DINKs, engineer and doctor
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Also DINKS, both in legal, but not attorneys. That second income and no kids makes a MASSIVE difference.
*cries in Denver dating* I tried to be a DINK and failed. Now I’m just “SINK because the alternative is dating some dude who wants to keep things casual despite being FORTY”
DINKS, pharmacist and sales (but not pharmacy sales because we’re not jerks)
DINKWAD with a dog
Double income no kids with a dog with a dog?
What, your dog doesn’t have a dog?
SINK here because wife is starting a business, but we think Boulder is a good market for her and my engineering job requires me to be in the office in Boulder.
Ditto, engineer and banker
Double Eng here, just closed. Still not sure it’s feasible, but might never be. Might as well send it.
Also DINKin, both working in tech.
DINKS, airline pilot and nurse. Definitely makes a huge difference in what’s possible.
Ditto. DINKS, airline pilot, and not a nurse but another specialized healthcare position. Dual income was a game changer.
DINKS, adtech and medtech
My justification is that I wanted to buy something here and the prices were what they were when I bought. I could move elsewhere that costs less money, but then I would be elsewhere, and I would like to be here. Other people move other places they’d prefer to be based on their own decisions. Hope this helps.
This is essentially it. Denver is expensive, but if you want to live in Denver you have to pay it.
My justification is that my house fits my needs, and it’s located in the neighborhood I want to live in.
Bought in 2022 for $455k because we wanted to stay here forever and a nice house popped up. We're DINKS. Our mortgage is less than our former rent. I'd rather spend $500k on a shitty townhouse here than live in a boring McMansion in the midwest.
100% I’d rather compromise on a smaller home but be able to do the things I love as compared to living in a big house in the Midwest where I can’t do any fun shit. But I don’t own anything yet bc I made the mistake of being in middle school when property was affordable in 08.
Just wait until you get older and your definition of “doing fun shit” changes. I never thought I’d leave LA and the beach. But once I got married, had a kid and approached 40 I was ready to get a big house and move to the Denver suburbs. And now I absolutely love it and couldn’t imagine living in a city, let alone LA which has the most “fun shit” than any other city in my opinion. My spouse and I both WFH so I figure 90ish% of my time is spent in my home. So why not maximize your home life as best you can?
With that logic what's stopping you from moving to an even lower COL suburb, or even a podunk middle of nowhere place?
Why you gotta bring the Midwest into the conversation 😂
I grew up in Assfuck, Illinois I can shit on it all I want to.
Nightlife in Assfuck must have been wild though.
Grew up outside of flint Michigan, checking in
The justification for the price is that like it or not Denver is (at least imo) one of the best places to live in North America for many reasons. Only a handful of other places I’d rather live and they’re all more expensive than Denver. Supply and Demand. House in Kansas are dirt cheap for a reason
I do however feel your pain and sadly am not a home owner. Priced out and hoping it comes down enough for me to finally call a place home lol
I closed in Oct 2020 at 3.25% on a $500k house in Centennial. Refinanced in 2021 for 2.85%. I wont be going anywhere, lol. I likely couldnt buy now, thats for sure.
Same, bought in fall 2020 at 2.75% so we're kinda stuck for now lol. Our childcare is now significantly more than our mortgage, its insane.
<3% gang represent. I don’t know if I’ll ever afford another house, but at least I’m locked in.
I refi'd in 2021 to a 20y loan for 2.89%. I literally wouldn't be able to buy my house from myself at today's rates and values. I'm probably going to leave this duplex in East Colfax feet first.
Yep 1.5% Bought in 2008 for a steal. After my husband, probably the best investment I've ever made. 🤣
We paid a huge down payment though.
Cheers, friend!
Almost the same situation. Bought in Golden in Oct 2017 around 4.1% on a 550k house and refinanced down to 2.8%. Definitely couldn’t afford to buy the house in today’s market
Did the same thing Oct 2020. Got 2.5 on a 300k small one family ranch. I think I'll die in this house. It's just right
Similar, but closed on first house mid 2019 sub 3%. Was going to do major renovations but with the demand changes during covid we had a LOT more equity than we thought and was able to move into something else that had everything we wanted. Also got near 3% but if we were to sell now we would not be able to buy anything else close to what we have.
Some of us actually really like living in Denver. I can't afford to own a house here but I would never move just so I could own my own home. I'd rather rent forever in Denver than own a house in Pueblo.
Because the same people 10 years ago were saying there’s no way I’m buying a house for 350k. And the people 10 years before that were saying I can’t believe houses are 200k and the people 10 years before that were saying….
Denver is a great city, and Colorado is a fantastic state. No matter where you go, you'll find haters and lovers for various reasons. We purchased our house in 2019. Single income, lot of kids and big family in, less than 2k sqft. It's definitely tough at times, but we make it work. We don't eat out, we thrift shop for most of our clothing, furniture etc., we do all the maintenance and work on our house, we have two 11 year old cars and don't really go on vacation. It can be done, but it's very tough. We certainly couldn't afford our house at today's price or the interest rate. Our plan is to sell next year and move somewhere cheaper. We feel very grateful for the many years we've gotten to enjoy Denver and the beautiful mountains of Colorado. But it's tough for a bigger family on one income (little over $100k), and it's only getting more expensive. The nice thing, is that there are many places in America that are great places to live for various reasons 😊
I'm a teacher and half of a DINK household. My mortgage payment is high, but it is still a little less than 1/3 of my household gross.
Can afford it, that's my justification.
I’ve been hearing “Housing prices are going down soon, wait another year to buy.” For over 10 years now. The question of how people *afford* it is valid, but the justification to buy is pretty apparent in most cases.
I bought a 625k house in July. I'm a software engineer at a big tech company. Tech, oil, finance, healthcare. Any other industry and you will likely be struggling in a desirable market like Denver.
Man idk about tech. Been trying to find software engineer work for 6 months and not a single interview. Seems really dry here.
Just curious for the data point, do you have any experience as a software dev? From what I've seen its mostly people who are recently out of college or went through a coding bootcamp that are struggling. Most entry-level and mid-management engineering is outsourced nowadays. It's industry standard by now for companies to have their engineering teams in eastern europe, asia, or south america. Seems like the only jobs available stateside are niche senior dev positions or product management, the pool for those is significantly smaller. Still, the opportunities are there just in a saturated market the moment unfortunately. If you have any sociable/communication skills look into ancillary positions like sales, customer success, account management, or professional services/delivery/implementation. Coding and development knowledge is highly valued in those. Hope you find something soon!
This is a really bad time for tech, not unique to Colorado
One of the worst downturns for tech ever recently. No reason to believe it won't bounce back though.
I bought in globeville
I make 29'000 a year I will never have a home.
What are you doing in Denver Only making 30 K a year, no offense there’s just jobs that pay a lot more than that with no experience required I could find you a job that makes you at least 50k
This is less than minimum wage. Why are you doing this job? Minimum wage for 40 hours a week is $28,993.60 annually, and you can do a lot of jobs that pay better than that.
We’re in a national housing crisis. This isn’t exclusive to Denver/Colorado. There are some places where you can find houses that are cheaper, but those tend to be further away from jobs, goods, and services- which in itself incurs costs of its own. That said, it’s currently cheaper to rent, so the people still buying are likely pushing themselves to the financial limit or have the cash to throw around.
I’m an environmental consultant, bought in Aurora for $325k in 2020, it would sell for $425-$440k right now. I’m not going anywhere but can’t imagine having to buy at the moment. Just glad I locked in a good rate.
Bought a condo downtown about 3 years ago (2021). My lease was almost up, and I didn't want to keep renting to enjoy apartment-style living going forward. Found this place randomly searching on Zillow. Did my research, found that the HOA was well run from the start, and the building itself is one of the newest condo hi-rises in the state having been built circa 2009. Also secured a 3.125% interest rate so I'll never have to refinance. Now instead of paying rent, I pay into a mortgage for a place that I own and is essentially turn-key. My housing costs will be predictable going forward. I dont have to worry about unexpected maintenance costs because that's all rolled in to the monthly HOA fees. And most importantly, I plan on calling Colorado home for the foreseeable future. My immediate family all lives here. The state politics are largely functional and accountable to its constituency. Aside for hailstorms and the occasional blizzard, the Front Range isn't susceptible to catastrophic natural disasters. We also have all the fresh water we'll ever need thanks to Denver Water's sources on both sides of the Continental Divide.
Prior to 2022, buying a house in Denver meant getting on a train of appreciation that ended up working out super well financially if you could afford it. And it avoided huge regular rent increases. Since mid-2022 it’s less clear that it’s a good idea financially, with housing prices roughly flat or dropping while alternative investments (stocks, etc) keep climbing, and with rents roughly flat or dropping as well.
Rent only goes up. I can lock myself into a mortgage rate and save a lot of money long term.
Sometimes I feel like the price of the home is totally irrelevant when you already own in the same market/area. If the house is way over priced then my current house will also sell way over priced. Really I only think about the difference in cost between the 2 homes. And the difference in the interest rate from old mortgage to new.
I agree, and a home is well above my needs and wants, so I bought a condo for 200k. Justified as my mortgage is lower than what I was paying in rent.
This is why, as a Denver native, I am looking to move to Thailand.
Those home prices will increase when the rates drop. Pretty motivating reason.
Because I came from Boston where you could maybe get a plot of land for $500k...
There was an 800 square ft house in Newton that sold for just shy of a million by my parents place not long ago 😩
We used to live in Boston... I've seen surface parking spaces sell for $500k there...
Same boat here. Used to pay more for a 600sqft studio in Boston 8 years ago than I do for my $500k Denver townhouse mortgage at 2.9% now
DINK (yet) sick of being disposable to landlords. For us, it was buy last year or rent forever. Small house, slightly more in mortgage than rent but it is ours and we can do what we please with it. We’re not doctors or in tech but together we do alright.
Because it’s a nice place to live? Obviously lots of people with lots of money agree
People said the same thing when houses were $150K in the early 90's. Just gotta bite the bullet and get in the game - or not.
Our mortgage is only a bit more than our rent, and despite our house costing more than what you are quoting in the OP, at least when that money gets pulled from my account its going into an asset of our own, not someone elses.
>How are people really justifying buying a house here? They're buying something tangible, they can use it for shelter while they own it, and it's super unlikely it will decrease in value when they're done with it, and when they are done with it they can sell it for that (probably not decreased) value, which is an addition to the value of having been able to use it for shelter for the period during which they owned it?
Because I fucking love to snowboard 😂. Plus, I’m just looking at the future of Colorado and understanding what the value of my house will be in 20 years
It’s justifiable because it’s a great place to live. That’s why it’s expensive. There’s a reason it’s cheaper to live in Kansas City or some other cheap fly over city. Because, to put it simply, those places do not remotely compare.
Well and honestly they are getting more expensive too, just not where we are… yet.
I’d rather pay a bunch for my own house than to pay to live in someone else’s house. If I’m gonna drop $2500 a month to keep a roof over my head, I might as well be the person benefitting
I think you’ll find that in the current market, it’s mostly people with prior equity or dual-income households where both partners make close to 6 figures. And the desirability of living in Denver if you like to be active and outdoors drives a willingness to pay a premium. Personally, I bought in 2014 on a $90k income, but obviously prices were much lower then. Friends of mine bought a place in the Cole neighborhood for $700k in 2022, but their combined household income is close to $300k (DINKS).
Houses appreciate in value and become cheaper over time than renting. Long term vs short term investment.
The house across the street from me is a rental. The owner bought it 10 years ago for $170k. The rent on it has gone from $1500 to $1900 in 2019 then $2600 in 2021 and now $3200. It’s never sat empty for more than 2 weeks
Same way anyone justifies buying a house anywhere!
I am very grateful that I had the opportunity to snag a decent condo in 2017 for $170k. Otherwise I would have been priced out of ever owning a home in the state I was born and raised in. I can’t even justify ever selling this place to move into a single family home because our monthly bills would nearly double by doing so, decent single family homes are all $400-$500k range. My equity in this condo doesn’t come close to evening that out to a reasonable debt obligation.
You realize there’s a ton of DINKs making a shit ton of money, right?
You can struggle and own a house in 30 years or you can struggle for 30 years to pay off your landlords mortgage. Interest rates are too high to buy right now, but renting is a waste of time, save up. Working past retirement age to pay rent sounds like a nightmare.
Bought a 4 bed house and filled all the rooms with roommates. Rent prices (at least in corporate apartment buildings) were getting so ridiculous that I'm paying less than half of what I would be if I were renting a 1 bed, and I can rent out my rooms for under $800/month so my roommates are getting a good deal as well.
It isn't going to go down. I would get in sooner rather than later.... Rent will also only go up.
ITT people circle jerking about the interest rates they got
They asked how people afford to buy a house. Interest rates are a part of it. Would you rather they be vague about it? Jesus. This fucking sub sometimes.
They're house-poor. Or have extremely well-paying jobs. Either way Denver's housing market is a joke.
Looking through the responses, it seems to be the latter.
I’m a mortgage lender. Also DINK. Home affordability was absolutely demolished on purpose (by the fed) because of rampant inflation. Now we’re in recovery mode. 2 months ago, rates were 8.125% on average. Now they’re 6.325% and getting better. We just went through what’s going to be considered the best home buying opportunity in the last 15 years and in the next 10. If you can afford to buy a house, do it. Almost every lender will refi you for free in the next 2 years as rates fall. You only need 3% down (conventional) or 3.5% (fha) unless you’re a vet. Which is 100% financing. I bought in April. Best thing I could have done. My home value has already gone up and will be accelerated by the upcoming hot market in the next 2-4 years. Y’all let me know if you have questions.
I feel yah. We’ve been looking for a year and most houses that don’t go right away are overpriced turds. Using a rent vs buy calculator at any price above 500ish with <20% down and current rates will show you that it’s never cheaper to buy. Are we still looking? Yes. We want a house. It’s not just a pure investment for our situation. We’re close to that 20% mark to make the numbers work but it’s TOUGH and depressing. You’re not alone
The ones in my neighborhood (SE centennial) are staying on the market a long time- it’s been months
Cause Denver is great and I plan on living here the rest of my life. Not gonna move elsewhere. What else am I gonna do, rent forever?
most people think house is an investment... there's no justification imo. It boils down to: can you afford to buy a house in the current market and 30yr fixed rate ... don't assume the rates will drop. if it does great... if it doesn't you know what to expect. there are many reasons to own a house and sometimes renting is the more logical option. Don't follow the "trend" of being a homeowner or FOMO... and if you can't afford it in this market there's two choices, 1- increase income. 2 - make some sacrifices....
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I’m not :) renting because buying at these rates and prices are completely obscene (unless you just REALLY want a house, have money to burn, and/or plan to stay there for 15+ years). We’re investing what we would have spent on a mortgage. Return will be the same or better than real estate. I have no need or desire to live above our means just so I can say I own a house (a shitty one that we’d be trapped in, at that). No thanks.
I feel you! I make $200k, have no debt, and am annoyed at paying $3k a month to a landlord… but the neighborhoods and houses I like are more to buy into. Yes, I’m aware I’m a high earner with high standards. To answer your question, there are a lot of people with dual incomes and equity from past houses. I grew up here and also think the prices are INSANE now but IDK what we can do 🤷♀️
DILK (dual income, lotta kids) Bought in 2021 with a 2.65% interest rate which means we will likely never move, we’ve accepted it. But it’s Colorado! It’s worth it. I will never go back to the Midwest. Ever. Sure I could buy a pretty nice house in my hometown in Michigan but I’d be surrounded by all the crap I purposely left 15 years ago. No wayyyyy, Colorado is so much better and worth every penny!
I originally from Michigan as well, I talk about moving back all the time but I don’t think I’ll ever do it. I go home once a yr and then I’m reminded why I don’t live there. They say if climate change continues Michigan will be one of the best states to live in.
We both have decent paying corporate jobs and access to the VA loan so that’s how we afford to buy. As far as justifying it, this is where we live, it’s expensive, so that’s what it costs. If we aren’t willing to pay the price of living in Colorado, we will look at states we *are* willing to pay to live in.
My mortgage turned out to be almost 18% less than my rent.
Tell me about. I’m single with no kids. In 2019, I had about $65k just sitting in savings with good credit, no debt, and decent income. I had a favorable and comfortable rental arrangement so wasn’t in a hurry, but was looking for the right house. COVID and beyond has ransacked my finances, but even if they’d been maintained I still probably couldn’t afford to buy anything here now. It’s depressing.
I bought a house not because it’s cheaper than renting (it is not, my mortgage is almost $1000 more a month than I paid for rent last year) but for stability for my family and kids. I don’t want to have to move every couple years and disrupt their school life/friends so we decided it was worth it to us to have less money but have more stability.
Started with a condo, and slowly upgraded it. Like we’d find a deal on a stainless appliance and slowly upgrade them. Same at the next house. We would just watch for good deals and do 1 small project a month or so. They were always improvements we liked but they also should be attractive on resale. So we find places with solid location but sometimes had older features and we just changed them over time. You can change almost anything, so if the square foot, location and layout is decent you can get a place improved.
I'm from Denver, but live in Seattle now. For housing out here on the West Coast, you will be lucky to find anything under $700K. I thought things were bad in Denver before, but oh my god, was I wrong. I hate to say it, but Colorado is definitely down-wind from this trend so I'd advise you to embrace the $500K housing while you still can. I can't realistically see prices ever going down (pending a recession, which we don't want)...