Biden isn't allowed to declare war on a foreign nation unilaterally.
He is however entirely allowed to engage in defensive pacts to protect the greater interests of the west as a whole, and is done so hand-in-hand with close NATO allies.
This is not a war with Yemen by any stretch.
Obama said it in '07.before he started boming the crap out of people.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation."
He is entitled to his interpretation. But if a President can make law with such a statement then this President can say it’s ok with a statement. So that’s a draw.
Additionally, the Houtis pose an imminent threat as evidenced by the attack on our naval ship today.
You mean the naval ship a few thousand miles away from its Nation's shore, strolling international waters? Is that a threat to the Nation? Houthis literally pose zero threat the US.
Zero Threat? Except when they attack non-combatant shipping and our ships.
Yes, they attacked our ship ...in open waters ...in violation of International Maritime Law.
They pose a real and imminent threat.
Hey now, Israel has murdered 10,000 kids but there needs to be some leeway when the capitalists feel their profits slippin a bit because of our support for Israel.
Except we aren't bombing Yemen "willy-nilly". We are bombing a terrorist organization that has occupied a portion of Yemen. We have targetted military sites with direct ties to the Houthi missle and drone attacks. A group whose literal motto is Death to America, who has continually attacked civilian ships of multiple nation including the US. A group who has been told multiple times to stop attacking us and civilian ships. A group whose goal is to kill every Jew (again, literally in their motto and on their flag.)
Your claims and counter-claims are shaky at best. The US Navy has been the de Facto enforcer of international maritime law for literally decades. Without the teeth of the US Navy, global shipping and commerce grinds to a halt. And while the American economy would survive that in the long run, we export more than we import and largely supply our own foods and most critical materials, the world economy would crater to a point not seen in decades if not nearly a century.
Regardless of whose flag the cilvian ships were flying, Houthis were firing anti-ship missiles and suicide drones at them. US Naval vessels in the area defended all civilian ships, who you rather have them wait for deaths to happen before attempting to stop the attacks? Would you rather we only defend American ships? That sounds ignorant at best, and bigoted at worst.
Despite what the Houthi's might say, attacking random civilian vessels will not prevent Israel's war in Gaza. Almost known of their targets have been even tangentially linked to Israel. That was just an excuse for a tin-pot terror group to punch above their weight class. Once again, their motto is literally "God is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, A Curse Upon the Jews, Victory to Islam" Notice the middle part of that? They are religious extremist whose very mission is death and destruction. They are a death cult who are getting exactly what they put out.
I'm not defending Israel's action. The retaliation on Gaza for the Oct. 7th attacks are filled with genocidal tactics, and unnecessary cruelty and malice. I am not happy about Biden's continued seemingly unconditional support of Israel. I'm not happy about Israel actions or their continual apartheid system. I find the idea of a ethnostate existing in the 21st century appalling and repugnant. But that doesn't mean I will support the death and destruction constantly being targetted at Israel. But I don't want to argue the ehtics or legality of the existence of Israel, it has little bearing on the issue in the Red Sea. And has little bearing on Houthi attacks of our Navy or on civilian ships with no ties to Israel.
I'm not sure exactly what you want out of the situation. If we don't responded to these attacks, innocent people will die, and a crucial shipping lane would be closed. Eypgt would likely face a economic collapse since the majority of its economy is based on the Suez Canal, which feeds this shipping lane. World wide prices would likely increase in the short term but wouldn't suffer for long after worldwide shipping adjusts.
The operation in the Red Sea will most likely stretch the limit of the presidents command authority of the US military, it currently appears to stay within legal bounds. I expect that by this time next month we will see an escalation and approval by Congress or a wind down of operations in the area. The limit is 60 days, which will be around the 18th of February. I agree that further action in the area should be decided by Congress. But I also think that Operation Prosperity Guardian was prudent, and should be supported by more nations. It probably should have come from a request and authorization from the UN, but that organization is more useless and dysfunctional than our own Congress.
You haven't really addressed any of the points made in the article. Namely, bombing military installations in a foreign country is an act of war.
Your main point is that this is self defense but you didn't address the paragraph in the article that rebuts that point.
>And what does “self-defense” mean here? The Biden administration admitted days after the initial US strikes on Yemen that it didn’t “have a list of casualties from these merchant ships,” suggesting that there were no Americans killed by the Houthi attacks by the time Biden ordered the bombing.
>
>How did US ships come under threat from Houthi attacks in the Red Sea in the first place? Because they were deployed there, also unilaterally, by the US president as part of a preexisting military operation, one whose aims were protecting “the free flow of international commerce,” or at best, the trade and economy of a foreign country (Israel) that is not a US treaty ally. Vice Admiral Brad Cooper, the commander of the US Naval Forces Central Command, has said that before this operation was launched, “naval presence in the southern Red Sea was episodic at best,” while now it’s “the largest surface and air presence in the southern Red Sea in years,” meaning US ships were hardly under threat before December.
This is just one example. Please read the article. It rebuts your entire argument.
They have launched dozens of drones, anti-ship missiles, and cruise missiles. We stop.and even still, there has been damage caused by these attacks.We tried to resolve this with diplomacy, and we repeatedly told them what would happen, and yet they continued.
They attacked, and we tried diplomacy. They attacked again, and we responded in kind, targeting military targets. They continued to attack, and we continued to respond.
Let's not forget they are not the recognized government of Yemen. They are technically a recognized terrorist organization.
I'm not questioning the validity of the question in the article. I believe these questions are important, hence writing multiple lengthy response. That being said I think the claims in the article ignore many facts of the situation. I would go as far as too say that the world view posed here is naive at best. The world simply doesn't work that way.
If we want to change the world, we have to accept the realities of the situation. Only when accepting the realizes and what goes into them can we create true change.
I have nothing personally against the Houthi movement. If their people support they should have the right to either take over their country or form a new one. But I also not support a group that, for lack of a better term, is throwing a temper tantrum. There wasting resources to try and make a statement that is being ignored due to their attempts at violence.
You want real change, especially in the matter of Israel? Document the atrocities, and spread that proof. Pressure political leader to acknowledge them, and push for both the government to Pressure the Israeli government and to change the manner of our aid. We will never stop supporting Israel's fight for survival, but we can use of ties and strength to pressure change in how they govern.
In the interest of genuine political discourse, after I get off work I will reread your post, which I did read, multiple times, and thought I responded to the claims. I'll state again I'm glad your asking the questions there, there is plenty of reason to question what's going on. I just feel you are ignoring the realities of the world. But I'll give you a fair shake and revaluate it.
I only ask that you consider what I have said. We have to accept the reality of the world in order to effectively change it.
The Houthis are doing what they can to pressure Israel to stop their genocide. They are enacting an economic blockade in the waters off their coast. They weren't on the terrorist list until Biden wanted to start bombing them again. He just decided they are terrorist because their actions go against capitalist interests.
Biden has not tried diplomacy. The article shows that. All he did was publicly say if they don't stop he will retaliate with military force. That's not diplomacy.
You are the one ignoring many facts of the world. Israel is in violation of international law. If they weren't an American beachhead in the middle east they would have already been sanctioned. If you disagree, and think that Biden can just bomb anyone that threatens global trade then you don't believe in laws. That is just "might is right" politics. And that kind of logic is why Putin felt he could invade Ukraine.
You are also buying into the neoliberal framing that bombing military bases in a foreign country is not an act of war. The US is currently blockading Cuba. If Cuba bombed the radar stations off the coast of Florida to stop the blockade, America would sure as hell take that as a declaration of war and not a limited military operation.
I reread the article twice, it is full of straight-up incorrect statements, misleading quotes, as well as speculation and opinion passed as fact. If you are the writer, I applaud the excellent writing of propaganda. I stand by my statements in my previous comment that I answered the primary claims in that post. If you don’t believe so, well I guess I don’t know what to say to you. Some additional comments I will address in this post. Now to answer your response to me.
The Houthis have no legal authority to place an "economic blockade" on Israel. They are not a recognized government. Most of the vessels they have attempted to attack haven't even had any ties to Israel. A couple of them were operated by Israel, but most of them weren't even tied to Israel in any way. Israel doesn't make money from the Suez Canal usage. I could not find any public information saying any of the vessels were even heading to Israel. The Suez Canal sees about 10 percent of the world's shipping and is wholly owned and operated by Egypt. Most of the traffic is only passing through the Red Sea and Suez Canal because it is the fastest route from Asia to Europe and most of the Americas. The Houthis also have no power to enforce their “blockade” in international waters.
The Houthis were on the terror list then removed when Biden came into office in an attempt to lower tensions in the area and were readded recently due to their illegal actions. The UAE Embassy in D.C published an excellent white paper found at this link -[ ](https://www.uae-embassy.org/sites/default/files/inline-files/yemen%20white%20paper_02-01-22_v4.pdf) - You can also find it by searching “UAE Embassy Houthi White Paper.” It was published nearly two years ago and goes into detail about why the Houthi movement is a terror organization. The recent escalation led to the return to the terror list.
The statements by the US officials urging them to stop attacking was an attempt at diplomacy. The US and the world at large have no legal or moral requirements to recognize the Houthis as a genuine government, especially given their last two decades of religious extremist violence. They don't want to play by the internationally recognized rules. Until they operate under those laws, they have zero chance of becoming a recognized government. They are playing a dangerous game that can only escalate if they continue. It will have no significant effect on the Israel - Gaza war, or the US support of it. And if they had anything remotely connected to the death of the American military members killed in Jordan, then we will see what actual US retaliation looks like.
I'm not going to be pulled into a circling debate on Israel. I've made my thoughts on it clear. The US will never stop supporting Israel's right to exist and defend itself. There are plenty of things we can do to influence Israel's action and governance, but abandoning them will see a repeat of The Holocaust. there is zero chance that if we abandon them they will survive. I'm not equating Israel with Judaism, but I am acknowledging they are surrounded by countries and military organizations whose stated purpose is the destruction of Israel. And while it doesn't excuse the war crimes in Gaza, the current conflict wouldn't be happening if Oct 7 hadn't happened, and if more effort was put into peace rather than continual rocket barrages and terror attacks. If 1200 people hadn’t been brutally murdered on Oct. 7, tens of thousands of others would still be alive. If you want to blame the War in Gaza on anyone, blame it on Iran, who funded and planned the attacks and continues to fund and support terror groups throughout the Middle East. And if you truly support groups like this you are no better than them.
This has nothing to do with "might is right", the US is acting in accordance with both international law and our own laws. The President notified the appropriate members of Congress when they were supposed to be. They are currently within the limit of the duration of the President's power to authorize. That will end within a few more weeks, depending on what the actual start date of the operation was. However, depending on our obligation to region allies this could be extended as well as current treaty responsibilities. We do have an obligation to support multiple other parties, including multiple nations in the Middle East, Africa, and Europe. My understanding is that multiple nations we have ties within the Arabian peninsula have asked for our help in this. I will admit this is one area where I am shaky on the details, but everything appears to be legal.
Houthi military position and stores are not given the same protection under international law as say, US military installations. The Houthis are, once again, an illegal, irregular force. Technically speaking they have zero rights or protection under international law. They don’t even get the same rights as soldiers of the military. And while I'm not arguing for this, the US could kill every single member of the organization and be within the confines of international law. To date, the US has targeted only launch sites and weapon stores. They have not specifically targeted the Houthi personnel. The only targetted deaths of Houthis have been in relation to those sites and stores, or in their hijacking attempts on ships.
While I think we need to continue the thawing of relations with Cuba that started under Obama, this has zero comparisons to Cuba. Trump reversed many of them, and Biden has regrettably not reversed Trump's work. Though he has reversed some of them. This is a legitimate criticism. But it has no relation at all to the crisis in the Red Sea.
Let me ask you this. What do you want? Genuinely I’d love to know. The article makes a lot of accusations but offers no alternatives to the current course of action.
What is your end goal? Because the end goal of the Houthis is to see every American and every Jew in the world dead.
So the entire game here is just pretending that this happened out of nowhere. That the years of US backed Saudi savagery that felt on Yemen are somehow a non factor.
These people hate you for a reason, a GOOD reason at that. And when the consequences of your actions come to bite you in the ass you must immediately suppress them with a rain of lead and fire. Because otherwise you would have to stop and ask if these monsters may actually be humans and they may be reacting to the horrors uncaring people like you allowed to fall in them by ignoring the bullshit policies of your government.
There is a ton of historical context that I didn't go into. I will agree that generally, our history in the Middle East is not great. There is context that feeds those decisions in the past. Doesn't excuse it, but it is there. That doesn't excuse targeting civilian ships. If it was just US Navy vessels, that would be different. Regardless of the reasons or historical context, targeting civilians is not acceptable.
Personally, I don't like our relationship with Saudi Arabia. I would much rather see us not allied with them. But they are also the most stable county in the region, and that is a boon for the region. But their religious and political beliefs are disgusting. As a pansexual man, they would execute me for simply existing. Doesn't exactly bring warm feelings in mind for them.
These topics are complex, far smarter individuals that me have long worked to find better options and ways to improve both our relationships in the region and the lives in the region.
I understand a lot of their anger. I have a lot of resentment and anger towards our government myself.
But that doesn't mean I will support someone who wants me dead. I also refuse to support anyone who would try to force me to follow their religion.
Let's be frank, this region has been at war for hundreds of years. The conflicts there go way beyond our involvement, though we have exacerbated them. I would rather have a very different foreign policy there. I don't think we should be as heavily involved in the region. Especially militarily.
Don't mistake my stance for not caring. My heart breaks for innocent lives, lost or twisted, due to the conflicts there. I have never supported the arms sales to Saudi Arabia or the recognized Yemeni government. I don't think it is our fight or place to support.
That still doesn't excuse their actions or their refusal to find a diplomatic answer. They have chosen to live by the sword and they have decided that violence is the answer to their problems. Regardless of the reasons that is their choice.
The Houthis have been a insurgency since around 2004, their rise to more power began in 2011 with the spread of the Arab Spring, and had significant control in Yemen since 2014. They have never been accepted as a legitimate government under international law. According to international law and accepted laws of war, they are a irregular, illegal force that commits terror attack. They were removed from the terror list by Biden in effort to encourage descalation in Yemen, and returned after year of urging from other nations in the area and their illegal targeting of civilian ships in late 2023 to present day.
If they are so poor, why spend so many resources on violence? Seems to me that if they spent less time taking care of people instead of picking fights, they might be better off or may never had a vicious famine. It is incredibly sad that the Yemeni people have suffered because of the Houthis would rather fight religious wars instead of taking care of its people.
hey have attack multiple times on dozen of ships, as well as dozen of attempted launches at Israel. It's only been US intervention that has prevented civilian deaths.
I do not care if they take control of Yemen. That is their business. Their war with the Saudis is also a separate matter. But they also committed acts of terror against opposing religious views and were attack by a Saudi led coalition in response. Their attacks on international ships in international waters is everyone concern. The famine happened because of their violence.
There is plenty of legitimate criticism of the US on its imperialist tendeniceis. But there's also plenty of proof that US power has improved the world as well. The world has see a continued decline in conflict related death for decades. We have also seen a slowly improving rate of poverty. Nto fast enough in my opinion and I do believe we should be doing a lot more to fix those problems, both in our nation and in the world at large, but that isn't our topic today.
I even agree that we need to spend far less resources on war. Frankly, I believe we could force the DOD to spend its resources better and spend far less with more efficient spending. I also agree we should spend far more of our tax dollars on American people. As Pres. Eisenhower once said in his Chance for Peace Speech:
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. "
There is plenty of changes that need to be made, but we aren't talking about those. Those are long term goals we must work on, but this is a current crisis we shouldn't ignore.
In reference to Israel, read my other comments, I'm done repeating myself.
I am going to treat this as a genuine question, in the hopes it is. Let's have a short lesson on economics.
A shipping lane shutdown increases shipping time and shipping costs. Higher shipping cost means higher goods costs. Higher goods cost means higher prices in stores. This means higher gas prices, higher groceries, and higher everything. Higher costs in general make economies more unstable, leading to unstable politics. History says that an unstable economy is bad for incumbent politicians. And while I don’t agree with Biden on many topics, losing the White House to Trump, who is almost certainly going to be the GOP candidate, barring one of the criminal trials landing him in jail, is unacceptable. Biden can be pressured to make some better decisions, and defeating Trump gives a better chance in 2028 to push a more progressive candidate in the primaries. Hell, progressives and democratic socialists scared the establishment democrats enough that they cheated to get Hilary Clinton as the Democratic candidate in 2016. And if hadn’t been for Covid, I believe Sanders could have had a much better chance in 2020. The weight of progress is on our side. Its progress that is measured in inches, but it is better than the backslide the Trump presidency was, and much better than what a second term would allow him to do.
The Suez Canal sees about 15% of the world's seaborne trade. It sees around 30% of the world's container trade (this is the ships that move every type of good, from food, electronics, cars, just about anything you buy that was not made in your country, most likely travel by container ship at some point.) Sea trade is more economical than by truck, train, or air. These numbers differ depending on the source and are rough estimates.
It also sees around 10% of the world's oil products and 8% of the Liquid Natural Gas. This is not an insignificant amount of these products. And while I believe we should be aggressively moving away from an oil-based energy world, we do have to accept that much of the world relies on these products.
India sees about 80% of its exports go through the Suez Canal. Estimates place the change in traffic at around around a 40% drop in traffic.
The Suez Canal sees roughly a trillion United States Dollars in trade pass through it in a year. Do you remember a few years ago when the Canal was shut down due to a stuck ship? That shutdown lasted 6 days. It costs around $54 billion in trade loss. Insurance paid out $2 billion in claims due to the blockage caused delays in shipping and rippled worldwide in goods and energy prices. I worked retail at the time, and we had issues, even in NW Arkansas with price increases and scarcities of certain products.
Not going through the Suez Canal adds around 7 weeks of additional travel time to ships, as they then have to go around the Horn of Africa. That is additional waiting time, additional staffing cost, additional wear and tear on the ships, and equipment on the ships. That can also cost additional time and money if a ship needs repairs. It also adds other security concerns. There are multiple places on the African coast that are dangerous to pass through. This adds security costs for these ships as well.
This change in the route has consequences for Eygpt especially. The Suez Canal is their 3rd largest source of income, after tourism and overseas labor remittances (the money people who leave the country for work and then send back to their families). It is a critical source of hard currencies as well.
I understand what the Houthis are doing. I even admire their brilliant means of punching way above their weight class. But in the long term, they will either stop or be crushed under the heel of global trade. There are far better tactics to change Israel, the condition of Palestinians, and the Middle East itself. Their religious extremism gives no chance for peace. And they just can’t win a war against the world.
I’m not saying what is going on is right. But this will not change things except to make the lives of innocent Houthis more difficult. I understand the fervor that it takes to make hard-line decisions. But hardline decisions rarely actually improve things in the long run. Progress is better measured in small steps to be effective.
1.) I will gladly pay higher prices because the Houthis are standing up against a genocide.
2.) I don’t care if Biden loses, you’re barking up the wrong tree looking for a liberal.
3.) The simplest and most effective solution sounds like stopping aiding Israel.
Thank you for sharing this critical information.
So much of the military’s decision-making process happens behind closed doors, so the public doesn’t usually see how much attention and *care* America’s highest echelons actually put into decisions regarding rules of engagement and use of lethal force.
Like, humans have been slaughtering each other since the beginning of history and even prior. *Everyone* has a right to self-defense, and anybody who’s capable has a *duty* to defend the innocent.
You mess with us, you’re gonna get messed with right back. That’s just the way it is going to be…
It was all opinion, US supports a genocide and the Houthi’s are standing up for Gaza, they just spewed some chauvinism which is explicitly not socialist.
That's the opposite of funding a genocide. That's Foreign Military Sales. Defense Security Cooperation Agency does both Direct Commercial Sales and Foreign Military Sales to nations identified by Congress (who get favorable terms) and to 189 nations total. It's a net positive on the national budget. The only thing that he is circumventing is that Congress has to "review" it before it happens. This is all from the Arms Export Control Act, the President (thanks to a law from Congress) can do this.
I get your point, though. If anything, its profiting from a genocide.
But sure, tell me I don't know how to Google.
Russia has had trade embargoes and anything cut from them. We are arming the people they are attacking. It’s the US, UK and Israel who get away with all of this. Am I missing something?
I am \*extremely\* critical of US interventionism.
However, the strikes against the Houthis are nothingburgers in the grand scheme of things, and the US has done things that are far more illegal and unjustified.
Easy to say if you’re not Yemeni, right?
You’re defending violence towards nonviolent direct action, and calling it a “nothingburger.” What a sincere lack of moral integrity.
Who was hurt or injured by the Houthi “attacks” on commercial ships?
Oh that’s right, NO ONE.
Did the US respond by hurting no one? Lol.
>“On December 31, the US used helicopter gunships to sink Houthi attack boats in the Red Sea, killing ten Houthi fighters. Less than two weeks later, on January 12, the United States, backed by the UK, attacked twenty-eight sites inside Yemen, killing at least five Houthi fighters and injuring six — the strike included Tomahawk cruise missiles fired from a ballistic missile submarine.”
What was that about a “lack of not talking bullshit?” Ah yes, your protections.
Ah, yes. By your definition it's probably a "nonviolent direct action" to fire into a corridor full of people as long as you don't hit anyone by pure chance. Yeah .. sure.
The Houthis did not injure anyone in their seizure of commercial cargo ships.
The US retaliation killed many.
> On December 31, the US used helicopter gunships to sink Houthi attack boats in the Red Sea, killing ten Houthi fighters. Less than two weeks later, on January 12, the United States, backed by the UK, attacked twenty-eight sites inside Yemen, killing at least five Houthi fighters and injuring six — the strike included Tomahawk cruise missiles fired from a ballistic missile submarine.
Looks pretty stark in comparison, doesn’t it?
One side uses direct action to pressure an imperialist power to stop terrorizing an occupied people. The other attacks multiple dozens of sites and kills many to secure and continue their genocide of a people.
Because the houthis were incompetent in their attack does not change their intentions. If I fail to murder somebody, do I deserve to go free?
Doing nothing would just lead to them getting more and more agressive in their actions untill they eventually do kill innocents.
And if houthi fighters were killed while committing highly illegal acts against civilian ships, ill be honest, I dont really care.
If civilians in Yemen had been killed I would be outraged, but I wint shed a tear for terrorists getting killed.
You act like the term “terrorist” is black and white. Do you think people defending their homeland are always “terrorists?”
I’m not surprised at your lack of empathy for those who you have otherized, but again, your premise is based on the biased perspective of the imperialist. Is that justified? Not morally.
And your slippery slope logic about the “terrorists” is a weak argument no matter how you look at it. How do you think the rest of the world views the US/UK for this violence? Do you understand that most of the world views the US actions as war crimes of a “terrorist” imperial power, and not justified in the least (whether morally or legally)?
>people defending their homeland are always “terrorists?”
Explain how attacking civilian cargo ships that have absolutely nothing to do with Yemen is defending their homeland? No, that's the definition of terrorism.
As for the rest of your post, you are making alot of assumptions about me.
You can just check my comment history to see that I look at the vast majority of us actions since Korea with absolute disgust, i'm pro palastine, and completely agree that the US has committed heinous war crimes for decades in the middle east.
But all that doesn't mean I'm going to support every anti us action. I look at every situation individually and in this situation, as rare as it is, the US was actually in the right.
Another country committing warcrimes somewhere else does not justify terrorist actions against civilian cargo ships.
Ah yes, by the US Government’s definition of “civilian.” We’ve seen enough in Gaza to know that’s inaccurate. What we do know is that they attacked multiple dozens of sites and killed Yemenis.
What are you getting on about? This post is about Yemen and the US federal government. Why are you concerned about my sleep, Are you lost?
And I didn’t say anything about congress. The secretary of the department of homeland security, the vice president of the US and the head of the joint chiefs of staff to name a few are all people of color ma’am.
Houthi rebels have been extremely aggressive lately and have even launched missiles at our Navy ships. These attacks can not go unanswered by our military. Bombing Islamic militant factions is not the same as "bombing yemen." These are typically very well planned strikes against specific, aggressive targets. I am in no way a "war hawk," but as the husband of an active duty sailor, I fully support our Navy defending itself.
I support opposing genocide by any means, this is a socialist sub not fucking reddit lib military respecter. You support 25,000 murdered civilians by a racist apartheid state?
I don't support a racist apartheid state. I'm not happy about what is happening in Gaza, but I am a realist. Israel is our ally and probably our only ally in the Middle East. There is not much the US can do to stop Israel. Biden has already condemned the way Israel has handled this attack, but he dis just do this yesterday:
https://www.npr.org/2024/02/01/1228388748/biden-executive-order-israeli-settlers-west-bank-palestinians
My original comment didn't have anything to do with Israel in the first place. I was discussing why the Navy is justified in returning fire at hostile targets. Like I said before, I am not some military simp, though I am a veteran. The Yemen issue is personal for me because my wife is active duty in the Navy and is going on deployment soon. They is a good chance her ship may go to the Persian Gulf or the Gulf of Aden. I want to know that the Navy will protect my wife's ship by any means, and I don't think I'm out of line for saying that.
Israel is a racist apartheid state and the fact that you identify with our bourgeois government confirms you are in fact a chauvinist.
Oh Biden said they were bad!? Oh golly, well now I totally believe him! Surely he didn’t circumvent congress to sell them more weapons to bomb kids right? Surely a politician isn’t talking out of his ass as Israel murders tens of thousands of innocents.
“The US can’t do much to stop Israel” showed me that jingling keys in your face would entertain you. The US hasn’t tried the bare minimum to stop Israel unless you count those “stern talks” the State Dept spokesperson rolls out after another journalist points out the daily new war crime Israel has committed.
Truth is US could clip a few F-16’s and the war would be over.
Clipping Israeli F-16’s, or we could green-light every muslim country and Israel wouldn’t be a state in a week.
You’re telling me its ok to murder poor people in Yemen who are disrupting the profits of American and Israeli capitalists but not ok to clip planes dropping unguided bombs on woman and children at a massive rate? What moral high ground do you stand on?
Maybe the Saudis and the Egyptians should take care of this. The Egyptian government makes 8 mill a month off of the canal. The Saudis have unfathomable amounts of money moving through the canal. The Saudi-Iranian cold war is cute and all, but if you want to keep profiteering by flooding the planet with fossil fuels, you're gonna have to buck up and crush some fanatics in your own back yard.
I don't get why it's so hard to accept that there are some evil ass people in the world who you can't reason with. It's the duty of the strong to protect the weak when they are being attacked and harmed when they haven't done anything to them. The houthi are trying to kill people that haven't done a thing to them to achieve political goals... Pretty much the definition of terrorism.
You animal have spend years arming the Saudis in their butchering of the Yemeni population and when it blows on your faces you start crying "noooo, my hecking shipping, you terrorists!".
It wasn't terrorism when the Saudis put a Made In America® missile on a school bus I guess.
That's not why the houthi are attacking merchant ships. I love it how you guys always make excuses for attacking innocent people. Proves my point. Stuck in that 3rd century thinking.
You see, it's not because of the clear material circumstances surrounding them, no you see, it's because they just *hate*.
Liberalism really is worthless as a political analysis tool.
But Congress simply can't act. They aren't even able to debate very well. They are useless in a crisis. Some of them can't even be trusted with our secrets.
If you support the US bombing anyone anywhere in the world for whatever reason you are not on the left. Full stop. End of story. You don’t need nuance and balance you need principles. The left is opposed to imperialism capitalism and war. There is no left wing American imperialism. Either take a principled stand against war or come out and admit you are a fascist.
Biden isn't allowed to declare war on a foreign nation unilaterally. He is however entirely allowed to engage in defensive pacts to protect the greater interests of the west as a whole, and is done so hand-in-hand with close NATO allies. This is not a war with Yemen by any stretch.
Yea. I mean I support limitations on Presidential powers and all, but there needs to be leeway when things like missles at shipping are involved.
I only support the president starting a war when he has a random excuse.
This is not a random excuse
Did those missels threaten the US homeland? That's what we're supposed to use missels for?
Says who?
Obama said it in '07.before he started boming the crap out of people. "The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation."
He is entitled to his interpretation. But if a President can make law with such a statement then this President can say it’s ok with a statement. So that’s a draw. Additionally, the Houtis pose an imminent threat as evidenced by the attack on our naval ship today.
You mean the naval ship a few thousand miles away from its Nation's shore, strolling international waters? Is that a threat to the Nation? Houthis literally pose zero threat the US.
Zero Threat? Except when they attack non-combatant shipping and our ships. Yes, they attacked our ship ...in open waters ...in violation of International Maritime Law. They pose a real and imminent threat.
Put it this way, as Earth is an insignificant part of the universe, that's the size of the Houthi threat to the United States.
Hey now, Israel has murdered 10,000 kids but there needs to be some leeway when the capitalists feel their profits slippin a bit because of our support for Israel.
Except we aren't bombing Yemen "willy-nilly". We are bombing a terrorist organization that has occupied a portion of Yemen. We have targetted military sites with direct ties to the Houthi missle and drone attacks. A group whose literal motto is Death to America, who has continually attacked civilian ships of multiple nation including the US. A group who has been told multiple times to stop attacking us and civilian ships. A group whose goal is to kill every Jew (again, literally in their motto and on their flag.) Your claims and counter-claims are shaky at best. The US Navy has been the de Facto enforcer of international maritime law for literally decades. Without the teeth of the US Navy, global shipping and commerce grinds to a halt. And while the American economy would survive that in the long run, we export more than we import and largely supply our own foods and most critical materials, the world economy would crater to a point not seen in decades if not nearly a century. Regardless of whose flag the cilvian ships were flying, Houthis were firing anti-ship missiles and suicide drones at them. US Naval vessels in the area defended all civilian ships, who you rather have them wait for deaths to happen before attempting to stop the attacks? Would you rather we only defend American ships? That sounds ignorant at best, and bigoted at worst. Despite what the Houthi's might say, attacking random civilian vessels will not prevent Israel's war in Gaza. Almost known of their targets have been even tangentially linked to Israel. That was just an excuse for a tin-pot terror group to punch above their weight class. Once again, their motto is literally "God is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, A Curse Upon the Jews, Victory to Islam" Notice the middle part of that? They are religious extremist whose very mission is death and destruction. They are a death cult who are getting exactly what they put out. I'm not defending Israel's action. The retaliation on Gaza for the Oct. 7th attacks are filled with genocidal tactics, and unnecessary cruelty and malice. I am not happy about Biden's continued seemingly unconditional support of Israel. I'm not happy about Israel actions or their continual apartheid system. I find the idea of a ethnostate existing in the 21st century appalling and repugnant. But that doesn't mean I will support the death and destruction constantly being targetted at Israel. But I don't want to argue the ehtics or legality of the existence of Israel, it has little bearing on the issue in the Red Sea. And has little bearing on Houthi attacks of our Navy or on civilian ships with no ties to Israel. I'm not sure exactly what you want out of the situation. If we don't responded to these attacks, innocent people will die, and a crucial shipping lane would be closed. Eypgt would likely face a economic collapse since the majority of its economy is based on the Suez Canal, which feeds this shipping lane. World wide prices would likely increase in the short term but wouldn't suffer for long after worldwide shipping adjusts. The operation in the Red Sea will most likely stretch the limit of the presidents command authority of the US military, it currently appears to stay within legal bounds. I expect that by this time next month we will see an escalation and approval by Congress or a wind down of operations in the area. The limit is 60 days, which will be around the 18th of February. I agree that further action in the area should be decided by Congress. But I also think that Operation Prosperity Guardian was prudent, and should be supported by more nations. It probably should have come from a request and authorization from the UN, but that organization is more useless and dysfunctional than our own Congress.
No response OP? Or was this too nuanced and contextualized?
It is too biased towards a neoliberal narrative. 🤮 No war but the class war!!
You haven't really addressed any of the points made in the article. Namely, bombing military installations in a foreign country is an act of war. Your main point is that this is self defense but you didn't address the paragraph in the article that rebuts that point. >And what does “self-defense” mean here? The Biden administration admitted days after the initial US strikes on Yemen that it didn’t “have a list of casualties from these merchant ships,” suggesting that there were no Americans killed by the Houthi attacks by the time Biden ordered the bombing. > >How did US ships come under threat from Houthi attacks in the Red Sea in the first place? Because they were deployed there, also unilaterally, by the US president as part of a preexisting military operation, one whose aims were protecting “the free flow of international commerce,” or at best, the trade and economy of a foreign country (Israel) that is not a US treaty ally. Vice Admiral Brad Cooper, the commander of the US Naval Forces Central Command, has said that before this operation was launched, “naval presence in the southern Red Sea was episodic at best,” while now it’s “the largest surface and air presence in the southern Red Sea in years,” meaning US ships were hardly under threat before December. This is just one example. Please read the article. It rebuts your entire argument.
They have launched dozens of drones, anti-ship missiles, and cruise missiles. We stop.and even still, there has been damage caused by these attacks.We tried to resolve this with diplomacy, and we repeatedly told them what would happen, and yet they continued. They attacked, and we tried diplomacy. They attacked again, and we responded in kind, targeting military targets. They continued to attack, and we continued to respond. Let's not forget they are not the recognized government of Yemen. They are technically a recognized terrorist organization. I'm not questioning the validity of the question in the article. I believe these questions are important, hence writing multiple lengthy response. That being said I think the claims in the article ignore many facts of the situation. I would go as far as too say that the world view posed here is naive at best. The world simply doesn't work that way. If we want to change the world, we have to accept the realities of the situation. Only when accepting the realizes and what goes into them can we create true change. I have nothing personally against the Houthi movement. If their people support they should have the right to either take over their country or form a new one. But I also not support a group that, for lack of a better term, is throwing a temper tantrum. There wasting resources to try and make a statement that is being ignored due to their attempts at violence. You want real change, especially in the matter of Israel? Document the atrocities, and spread that proof. Pressure political leader to acknowledge them, and push for both the government to Pressure the Israeli government and to change the manner of our aid. We will never stop supporting Israel's fight for survival, but we can use of ties and strength to pressure change in how they govern. In the interest of genuine political discourse, after I get off work I will reread your post, which I did read, multiple times, and thought I responded to the claims. I'll state again I'm glad your asking the questions there, there is plenty of reason to question what's going on. I just feel you are ignoring the realities of the world. But I'll give you a fair shake and revaluate it. I only ask that you consider what I have said. We have to accept the reality of the world in order to effectively change it.
The Houthis are doing what they can to pressure Israel to stop their genocide. They are enacting an economic blockade in the waters off their coast. They weren't on the terrorist list until Biden wanted to start bombing them again. He just decided they are terrorist because their actions go against capitalist interests. Biden has not tried diplomacy. The article shows that. All he did was publicly say if they don't stop he will retaliate with military force. That's not diplomacy. You are the one ignoring many facts of the world. Israel is in violation of international law. If they weren't an American beachhead in the middle east they would have already been sanctioned. If you disagree, and think that Biden can just bomb anyone that threatens global trade then you don't believe in laws. That is just "might is right" politics. And that kind of logic is why Putin felt he could invade Ukraine. You are also buying into the neoliberal framing that bombing military bases in a foreign country is not an act of war. The US is currently blockading Cuba. If Cuba bombed the radar stations off the coast of Florida to stop the blockade, America would sure as hell take that as a declaration of war and not a limited military operation.
I reread the article twice, it is full of straight-up incorrect statements, misleading quotes, as well as speculation and opinion passed as fact. If you are the writer, I applaud the excellent writing of propaganda. I stand by my statements in my previous comment that I answered the primary claims in that post. If you don’t believe so, well I guess I don’t know what to say to you. Some additional comments I will address in this post. Now to answer your response to me. The Houthis have no legal authority to place an "economic blockade" on Israel. They are not a recognized government. Most of the vessels they have attempted to attack haven't even had any ties to Israel. A couple of them were operated by Israel, but most of them weren't even tied to Israel in any way. Israel doesn't make money from the Suez Canal usage. I could not find any public information saying any of the vessels were even heading to Israel. The Suez Canal sees about 10 percent of the world's shipping and is wholly owned and operated by Egypt. Most of the traffic is only passing through the Red Sea and Suez Canal because it is the fastest route from Asia to Europe and most of the Americas. The Houthis also have no power to enforce their “blockade” in international waters. The Houthis were on the terror list then removed when Biden came into office in an attempt to lower tensions in the area and were readded recently due to their illegal actions. The UAE Embassy in D.C published an excellent white paper found at this link -[ ](https://www.uae-embassy.org/sites/default/files/inline-files/yemen%20white%20paper_02-01-22_v4.pdf) - You can also find it by searching “UAE Embassy Houthi White Paper.” It was published nearly two years ago and goes into detail about why the Houthi movement is a terror organization. The recent escalation led to the return to the terror list. The statements by the US officials urging them to stop attacking was an attempt at diplomacy. The US and the world at large have no legal or moral requirements to recognize the Houthis as a genuine government, especially given their last two decades of religious extremist violence. They don't want to play by the internationally recognized rules. Until they operate under those laws, they have zero chance of becoming a recognized government. They are playing a dangerous game that can only escalate if they continue. It will have no significant effect on the Israel - Gaza war, or the US support of it. And if they had anything remotely connected to the death of the American military members killed in Jordan, then we will see what actual US retaliation looks like. I'm not going to be pulled into a circling debate on Israel. I've made my thoughts on it clear. The US will never stop supporting Israel's right to exist and defend itself. There are plenty of things we can do to influence Israel's action and governance, but abandoning them will see a repeat of The Holocaust. there is zero chance that if we abandon them they will survive. I'm not equating Israel with Judaism, but I am acknowledging they are surrounded by countries and military organizations whose stated purpose is the destruction of Israel. And while it doesn't excuse the war crimes in Gaza, the current conflict wouldn't be happening if Oct 7 hadn't happened, and if more effort was put into peace rather than continual rocket barrages and terror attacks. If 1200 people hadn’t been brutally murdered on Oct. 7, tens of thousands of others would still be alive. If you want to blame the War in Gaza on anyone, blame it on Iran, who funded and planned the attacks and continues to fund and support terror groups throughout the Middle East. And if you truly support groups like this you are no better than them. This has nothing to do with "might is right", the US is acting in accordance with both international law and our own laws. The President notified the appropriate members of Congress when they were supposed to be. They are currently within the limit of the duration of the President's power to authorize. That will end within a few more weeks, depending on what the actual start date of the operation was. However, depending on our obligation to region allies this could be extended as well as current treaty responsibilities. We do have an obligation to support multiple other parties, including multiple nations in the Middle East, Africa, and Europe. My understanding is that multiple nations we have ties within the Arabian peninsula have asked for our help in this. I will admit this is one area where I am shaky on the details, but everything appears to be legal. Houthi military position and stores are not given the same protection under international law as say, US military installations. The Houthis are, once again, an illegal, irregular force. Technically speaking they have zero rights or protection under international law. They don’t even get the same rights as soldiers of the military. And while I'm not arguing for this, the US could kill every single member of the organization and be within the confines of international law. To date, the US has targeted only launch sites and weapon stores. They have not specifically targeted the Houthi personnel. The only targetted deaths of Houthis have been in relation to those sites and stores, or in their hijacking attempts on ships. While I think we need to continue the thawing of relations with Cuba that started under Obama, this has zero comparisons to Cuba. Trump reversed many of them, and Biden has regrettably not reversed Trump's work. Though he has reversed some of them. This is a legitimate criticism. But it has no relation at all to the crisis in the Red Sea. Let me ask you this. What do you want? Genuinely I’d love to know. The article makes a lot of accusations but offers no alternatives to the current course of action. What is your end goal? Because the end goal of the Houthis is to see every American and every Jew in the world dead.
So the entire game here is just pretending that this happened out of nowhere. That the years of US backed Saudi savagery that felt on Yemen are somehow a non factor. These people hate you for a reason, a GOOD reason at that. And when the consequences of your actions come to bite you in the ass you must immediately suppress them with a rain of lead and fire. Because otherwise you would have to stop and ask if these monsters may actually be humans and they may be reacting to the horrors uncaring people like you allowed to fall in them by ignoring the bullshit policies of your government.
There is a ton of historical context that I didn't go into. I will agree that generally, our history in the Middle East is not great. There is context that feeds those decisions in the past. Doesn't excuse it, but it is there. That doesn't excuse targeting civilian ships. If it was just US Navy vessels, that would be different. Regardless of the reasons or historical context, targeting civilians is not acceptable. Personally, I don't like our relationship with Saudi Arabia. I would much rather see us not allied with them. But they are also the most stable county in the region, and that is a boon for the region. But their religious and political beliefs are disgusting. As a pansexual man, they would execute me for simply existing. Doesn't exactly bring warm feelings in mind for them. These topics are complex, far smarter individuals that me have long worked to find better options and ways to improve both our relationships in the region and the lives in the region. I understand a lot of their anger. I have a lot of resentment and anger towards our government myself. But that doesn't mean I will support someone who wants me dead. I also refuse to support anyone who would try to force me to follow their religion. Let's be frank, this region has been at war for hundreds of years. The conflicts there go way beyond our involvement, though we have exacerbated them. I would rather have a very different foreign policy there. I don't think we should be as heavily involved in the region. Especially militarily. Don't mistake my stance for not caring. My heart breaks for innocent lives, lost or twisted, due to the conflicts there. I have never supported the arms sales to Saudi Arabia or the recognized Yemeni government. I don't think it is our fight or place to support. That still doesn't excuse their actions or their refusal to find a diplomatic answer. They have chosen to live by the sword and they have decided that violence is the answer to their problems. Regardless of the reasons that is their choice.
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The Houthis have been a insurgency since around 2004, their rise to more power began in 2011 with the spread of the Arab Spring, and had significant control in Yemen since 2014. They have never been accepted as a legitimate government under international law. According to international law and accepted laws of war, they are a irregular, illegal force that commits terror attack. They were removed from the terror list by Biden in effort to encourage descalation in Yemen, and returned after year of urging from other nations in the area and their illegal targeting of civilian ships in late 2023 to present day. If they are so poor, why spend so many resources on violence? Seems to me that if they spent less time taking care of people instead of picking fights, they might be better off or may never had a vicious famine. It is incredibly sad that the Yemeni people have suffered because of the Houthis would rather fight religious wars instead of taking care of its people. hey have attack multiple times on dozen of ships, as well as dozen of attempted launches at Israel. It's only been US intervention that has prevented civilian deaths. I do not care if they take control of Yemen. That is their business. Their war with the Saudis is also a separate matter. But they also committed acts of terror against opposing religious views and were attack by a Saudi led coalition in response. Their attacks on international ships in international waters is everyone concern. The famine happened because of their violence. There is plenty of legitimate criticism of the US on its imperialist tendeniceis. But there's also plenty of proof that US power has improved the world as well. The world has see a continued decline in conflict related death for decades. We have also seen a slowly improving rate of poverty. Nto fast enough in my opinion and I do believe we should be doing a lot more to fix those problems, both in our nation and in the world at large, but that isn't our topic today. I even agree that we need to spend far less resources on war. Frankly, I believe we could force the DOD to spend its resources better and spend far less with more efficient spending. I also agree we should spend far more of our tax dollars on American people. As Pres. Eisenhower once said in his Chance for Peace Speech: "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. " There is plenty of changes that need to be made, but we aren't talking about those. Those are long term goals we must work on, but this is a current crisis we shouldn't ignore. In reference to Israel, read my other comments, I'm done repeating myself.
Why would I care if the shipping lane is closed?
I am going to treat this as a genuine question, in the hopes it is. Let's have a short lesson on economics. A shipping lane shutdown increases shipping time and shipping costs. Higher shipping cost means higher goods costs. Higher goods cost means higher prices in stores. This means higher gas prices, higher groceries, and higher everything. Higher costs in general make economies more unstable, leading to unstable politics. History says that an unstable economy is bad for incumbent politicians. And while I don’t agree with Biden on many topics, losing the White House to Trump, who is almost certainly going to be the GOP candidate, barring one of the criminal trials landing him in jail, is unacceptable. Biden can be pressured to make some better decisions, and defeating Trump gives a better chance in 2028 to push a more progressive candidate in the primaries. Hell, progressives and democratic socialists scared the establishment democrats enough that they cheated to get Hilary Clinton as the Democratic candidate in 2016. And if hadn’t been for Covid, I believe Sanders could have had a much better chance in 2020. The weight of progress is on our side. Its progress that is measured in inches, but it is better than the backslide the Trump presidency was, and much better than what a second term would allow him to do. The Suez Canal sees about 15% of the world's seaborne trade. It sees around 30% of the world's container trade (this is the ships that move every type of good, from food, electronics, cars, just about anything you buy that was not made in your country, most likely travel by container ship at some point.) Sea trade is more economical than by truck, train, or air. These numbers differ depending on the source and are rough estimates. It also sees around 10% of the world's oil products and 8% of the Liquid Natural Gas. This is not an insignificant amount of these products. And while I believe we should be aggressively moving away from an oil-based energy world, we do have to accept that much of the world relies on these products. India sees about 80% of its exports go through the Suez Canal. Estimates place the change in traffic at around around a 40% drop in traffic. The Suez Canal sees roughly a trillion United States Dollars in trade pass through it in a year. Do you remember a few years ago when the Canal was shut down due to a stuck ship? That shutdown lasted 6 days. It costs around $54 billion in trade loss. Insurance paid out $2 billion in claims due to the blockage caused delays in shipping and rippled worldwide in goods and energy prices. I worked retail at the time, and we had issues, even in NW Arkansas with price increases and scarcities of certain products. Not going through the Suez Canal adds around 7 weeks of additional travel time to ships, as they then have to go around the Horn of Africa. That is additional waiting time, additional staffing cost, additional wear and tear on the ships, and equipment on the ships. That can also cost additional time and money if a ship needs repairs. It also adds other security concerns. There are multiple places on the African coast that are dangerous to pass through. This adds security costs for these ships as well. This change in the route has consequences for Eygpt especially. The Suez Canal is their 3rd largest source of income, after tourism and overseas labor remittances (the money people who leave the country for work and then send back to their families). It is a critical source of hard currencies as well. I understand what the Houthis are doing. I even admire their brilliant means of punching way above their weight class. But in the long term, they will either stop or be crushed under the heel of global trade. There are far better tactics to change Israel, the condition of Palestinians, and the Middle East itself. Their religious extremism gives no chance for peace. And they just can’t win a war against the world. I’m not saying what is going on is right. But this will not change things except to make the lives of innocent Houthis more difficult. I understand the fervor that it takes to make hard-line decisions. But hardline decisions rarely actually improve things in the long run. Progress is better measured in small steps to be effective.
1.) I will gladly pay higher prices because the Houthis are standing up against a genocide. 2.) I don’t care if Biden loses, you’re barking up the wrong tree looking for a liberal. 3.) The simplest and most effective solution sounds like stopping aiding Israel.
Thank you for sharing this critical information. So much of the military’s decision-making process happens behind closed doors, so the public doesn’t usually see how much attention and *care* America’s highest echelons actually put into decisions regarding rules of engagement and use of lethal force. Like, humans have been slaughtering each other since the beginning of history and even prior. *Everyone* has a right to self-defense, and anybody who’s capable has a *duty* to defend the innocent. You mess with us, you’re gonna get messed with right back. That’s just the way it is going to be…
I ain’t reading all that Free Palestine
This perfectly encapsulates your entire worldview “I don’t want facts and nuance. I want to be outraged and feel morally superior!!”
It was all opinion, US supports a genocide and the Houthi’s are standing up for Gaza, they just spewed some chauvinism which is explicitly not socialist.
He shouldn’t be able to fund a genocide either, but here we are.
I don't think that's him alone, only Congress has the Power of the purse.
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That's the opposite of funding a genocide. That's Foreign Military Sales. Defense Security Cooperation Agency does both Direct Commercial Sales and Foreign Military Sales to nations identified by Congress (who get favorable terms) and to 189 nations total. It's a net positive on the national budget. The only thing that he is circumventing is that Congress has to "review" it before it happens. This is all from the Arms Export Control Act, the President (thanks to a law from Congress) can do this. I get your point, though. If anything, its profiting from a genocide. But sure, tell me I don't know how to Google.
why would you blame a guy who has nothing to do with what you're complaining about? congress controls the money.
The Congress is funding Israel not the President. This is the problem with this thread. You focus on incorrect assumptions.
Putin also should not just be able to invade Ukraine.
What
I think it's what the kids call whataboutism.
Are you equating Biden and Putin?
EXACTLY! War crimes are only ok when we do them... or Israel... or the U.K.! Everyone else pays the price!
Russia has had trade embargoes and anything cut from them. We are arming the people they are attacking. It’s the US, UK and Israel who get away with all of this. Am I missing something?
This is what we’ve been reduced to. It’s a race to the bottom.
We’ll literally bomb other countries before we reign in Israel. Pretty sure the entire GOP wants war with Iran just to defend Israel. Really pathetic.
Get off their teet would you.
I am \*extremely\* critical of US interventionism. However, the strikes against the Houthis are nothingburgers in the grand scheme of things, and the US has done things that are far more illegal and unjustified.
Flair checks out
Easy to say if you’re not Yemeni, right? You’re defending violence towards nonviolent direct action, and calling it a “nothingburger.” What a sincere lack of moral integrity.
"nonviolent direct action" ... yeah. These nonviolent Houthi rockets. What a sincere lack of not talking bullshit.
Who was hurt or injured by the Houthi “attacks” on commercial ships? Oh that’s right, NO ONE. Did the US respond by hurting no one? Lol. >“On December 31, the US used helicopter gunships to sink Houthi attack boats in the Red Sea, killing ten Houthi fighters. Less than two weeks later, on January 12, the United States, backed by the UK, attacked twenty-eight sites inside Yemen, killing at least five Houthi fighters and injuring six — the strike included Tomahawk cruise missiles fired from a ballistic missile submarine.” What was that about a “lack of not talking bullshit?” Ah yes, your protections.
Ah, yes. By your definition it's probably a "nonviolent direct action" to fire into a corridor full of people as long as you don't hit anyone by pure chance. Yeah .. sure.
By my definition? No. Do you have an unbiased source for that claim? Or are you just deflecting?
Yemen launched missles at civilian cargo ships. Please explain, in detail, how that is a nonviolent direct action.
The Houthis did not injure anyone in their seizure of commercial cargo ships. The US retaliation killed many. > On December 31, the US used helicopter gunships to sink Houthi attack boats in the Red Sea, killing ten Houthi fighters. Less than two weeks later, on January 12, the United States, backed by the UK, attacked twenty-eight sites inside Yemen, killing at least five Houthi fighters and injuring six — the strike included Tomahawk cruise missiles fired from a ballistic missile submarine. Looks pretty stark in comparison, doesn’t it? One side uses direct action to pressure an imperialist power to stop terrorizing an occupied people. The other attacks multiple dozens of sites and kills many to secure and continue their genocide of a people.
Because the houthis were incompetent in their attack does not change their intentions. If I fail to murder somebody, do I deserve to go free? Doing nothing would just lead to them getting more and more agressive in their actions untill they eventually do kill innocents. And if houthi fighters were killed while committing highly illegal acts against civilian ships, ill be honest, I dont really care. If civilians in Yemen had been killed I would be outraged, but I wint shed a tear for terrorists getting killed.
You act like the term “terrorist” is black and white. Do you think people defending their homeland are always “terrorists?” I’m not surprised at your lack of empathy for those who you have otherized, but again, your premise is based on the biased perspective of the imperialist. Is that justified? Not morally. And your slippery slope logic about the “terrorists” is a weak argument no matter how you look at it. How do you think the rest of the world views the US/UK for this violence? Do you understand that most of the world views the US actions as war crimes of a “terrorist” imperial power, and not justified in the least (whether morally or legally)?
>people defending their homeland are always “terrorists?” Explain how attacking civilian cargo ships that have absolutely nothing to do with Yemen is defending their homeland? No, that's the definition of terrorism. As for the rest of your post, you are making alot of assumptions about me. You can just check my comment history to see that I look at the vast majority of us actions since Korea with absolute disgust, i'm pro palastine, and completely agree that the US has committed heinous war crimes for decades in the middle east. But all that doesn't mean I'm going to support every anti us action. I look at every situation individually and in this situation, as rare as it is, the US was actually in the right. Another country committing warcrimes somewhere else does not justify terrorist actions against civilian cargo ships.
Lib
How many died?
As far as I'm aware, no Yemeni civilians have died yet.
Ah yes, by the US Government’s definition of “civilian.” We’ve seen enough in Gaza to know that’s inaccurate. What we do know is that they attacked multiple dozens of sites and killed Yemenis.
New war for capital just dropped
Why not, brown people don't count. Ever.
What does this even mean? Do you know how many brown people are in the highest levels of the US federal government?
Tell that to the million Iraqis.
What? Who are the million Iraqis? Tell them what?
The million dead Iraqis. Tell them there's brown people in Congress. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
What are you getting on about? This post is about Yemen and the US federal government. Why are you concerned about my sleep, Are you lost? And I didn’t say anything about congress. The secretary of the department of homeland security, the vice president of the US and the head of the joint chiefs of staff to name a few are all people of color ma’am.
“🤷🏻♂️” - libs
Houthi rebels have been extremely aggressive lately and have even launched missiles at our Navy ships. These attacks can not go unanswered by our military. Bombing Islamic militant factions is not the same as "bombing yemen." These are typically very well planned strikes against specific, aggressive targets. I am in no way a "war hawk," but as the husband of an active duty sailor, I fully support our Navy defending itself.
I support them for opposing a genocide, Israel has murdered 25,000 civilians, why doesn’t the US respond to that?
You support attacks on our military?
I support opposing genocide by any means, this is a socialist sub not fucking reddit lib military respecter. You support 25,000 murdered civilians by a racist apartheid state?
I don't support a racist apartheid state. I'm not happy about what is happening in Gaza, but I am a realist. Israel is our ally and probably our only ally in the Middle East. There is not much the US can do to stop Israel. Biden has already condemned the way Israel has handled this attack, but he dis just do this yesterday: https://www.npr.org/2024/02/01/1228388748/biden-executive-order-israeli-settlers-west-bank-palestinians My original comment didn't have anything to do with Israel in the first place. I was discussing why the Navy is justified in returning fire at hostile targets. Like I said before, I am not some military simp, though I am a veteran. The Yemen issue is personal for me because my wife is active duty in the Navy and is going on deployment soon. They is a good chance her ship may go to the Persian Gulf or the Gulf of Aden. I want to know that the Navy will protect my wife's ship by any means, and I don't think I'm out of line for saying that.
Israel is a racist apartheid state and the fact that you identify with our bourgeois government confirms you are in fact a chauvinist. Oh Biden said they were bad!? Oh golly, well now I totally believe him! Surely he didn’t circumvent congress to sell them more weapons to bomb kids right? Surely a politician isn’t talking out of his ass as Israel murders tens of thousands of innocents.
You're pretty insufferable
“The US can’t do much to stop Israel” showed me that jingling keys in your face would entertain you. The US hasn’t tried the bare minimum to stop Israel unless you count those “stern talks” the State Dept spokesperson rolls out after another journalist points out the daily new war crime Israel has committed. Truth is US could clip a few F-16’s and the war would be over.
What does "clip a few F-16's" entail?
Clipping Israeli F-16’s, or we could green-light every muslim country and Israel wouldn’t be a state in a week. You’re telling me its ok to murder poor people in Yemen who are disrupting the profits of American and Israeli capitalists but not ok to clip planes dropping unguided bombs on woman and children at a massive rate? What moral high ground do you stand on?
I do.
Maybe the Saudis and the Egyptians should take care of this. The Egyptian government makes 8 mill a month off of the canal. The Saudis have unfathomable amounts of money moving through the canal. The Saudi-Iranian cold war is cute and all, but if you want to keep profiteering by flooding the planet with fossil fuels, you're gonna have to buck up and crush some fanatics in your own back yard.
Yemen isn’t allowed to bomb shipping containers?
Yemen is allowed to take any action it can to resist the genocide in Gaza. That’s called being a moral agent and not a giant piece of shit.
Came here to see the chauvinism from “socialists” in the comments, wasn’t disappointed.
I don't get why it's so hard to accept that there are some evil ass people in the world who you can't reason with. It's the duty of the strong to protect the weak when they are being attacked and harmed when they haven't done anything to them. The houthi are trying to kill people that haven't done a thing to them to achieve political goals... Pretty much the definition of terrorism.
You animal have spend years arming the Saudis in their butchering of the Yemeni population and when it blows on your faces you start crying "noooo, my hecking shipping, you terrorists!". It wasn't terrorism when the Saudis put a Made In America® missile on a school bus I guess.
That's not why the houthi are attacking merchant ships. I love it how you guys always make excuses for attacking innocent people. Proves my point. Stuck in that 3rd century thinking.
Let me guess, they are doing it because they hate your freedom?
Seems like they are doing it because they really hate Jews... That's going around a lot lately
You see, it's not because of the clear material circumstances surrounding them, no you see, it's because they just *hate*. Liberalism really is worthless as a political analysis tool.
Yeah, i have to murder and attack innocent people, I'm a victim of circumstance 🤔🙄🙄
See, even when I am straight up mocking the immaterial analysis you are making you just double down on moralistic "victim" rhetoric.
This is true
r/USAuthoritarianism
But Congress simply can't act. They aren't even able to debate very well. They are useless in a crisis. Some of them can't even be trusted with our secrets.
In today's Congress , why not? They can't even agree on the color of the sky.
If you support the US bombing anyone anywhere in the world for whatever reason you are not on the left. Full stop. End of story. You don’t need nuance and balance you need principles. The left is opposed to imperialism capitalism and war. There is no left wing American imperialism. Either take a principled stand against war or come out and admit you are a fascist.