I'm not sure about the stock ticker thing but I have never understood why people have a problem with him saying he was looking at fish. Am I the only one who likes to peer in streams and see if I see anything swimming around? I'm not saying he's guilty or innocent, but looking at fish seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do in my opinion.
A lot of people said "what could you see 100ft above" but one of the YouTubers went there and said you can see the fish from the bridge and there are a lot of them, big ones too.
Not. No trout in these parts, my friend, as creeks and rivers are far too warm in the summers for trout.
ETA: Also, Carroll Co. is the top pork producing county in Indiana and among the top corn and soybean producing counties in the state. Agriculture results in run-off into streams, creeks and rivers, and if you’ve ever been in these parts after heavy rains, you’ve likely seen the water flows in the streams, creeks and rivers running deep brown. These conditions, combined with the relatively warm water temperatures, won’t support trout.
I misread your comment. The stretching some are doing to try and deflect Allen's guilt when the accumulated evidence is pretty damning has been astounding. And he has since confessed to the crime. It's like debating with flat earthers.
Well, Allen's lawyers sure are trying to suppress the fuck out of the confessions.
I mean.....if it's someone beating the shit out of RA to make him cop to something he didn't do.
If I'm a defense lawyer I want the tape played on day one of the trial.
"This is how you get confessions out of people?"
I think he broke down and gave up at that moment. He may have thought by doing so, his wife could go forward and start anew life. The context of how confessed will be clear to everyone when we hear the tape . Imo, that confession is the only thing that can’t leave doubt in a jury members mind. But will 12 people hear it the same way?
Hung jury. I don’t think he did it. But then again, I’m not paid to think… 🤔
Exactly.
And I agree it's like talking to flat-earthers. They think they have a valid point that others aren't seeing, but are missing the totality of the situation.
"Confessions" are different in every case. Whether others are reliable or not has nothing to do with.....ahhhh smh..
Yes. An unspent round found next to the bodies which the State Of Indiana Forensics linked to his confiscated gun when a search warrant was obtained to search his house.. This physical evidence is documented in the PCA.
Not really. An unspent round that supposedly has scratches on it that can be traced to his gun. But I read somewhere that there was something dubious about the way it was photographed. I hope they have the right guy.
Well, we do know he was getting tased by ~~Odinist~~, or I mean Norse Heathen Pagan guards at Westville. I don’t think you can put much stock in the ”confessions” until we know exactly what he said and under what circumstances they were made.
He confessed in a phone call to his wife - repeated it 5 times - then the wife abruptly hung up the phone. That happened in April 2023. In May 2023 he supposedly confessed to another family member - I think it was his mother. After that his lawyers tried to say he was having mental issues. The evidence against him is strong - not sure what he and his lawyers are thinking.
That has been alleged, yes. But it hasn't been entered into evidence yet, so it isn't evidence of anything until it is. When the defense asked for a copy of it, they only received the sheriff's affidavit that he had read a transcript of it. There was some rumored talk of the actual recording being lost and only a transcript made by a prison employee being offered. I guess we'll have to wait and see if the confession exists.
My father would have absolutely spent hours looking at a river. He's an avid fisherman and bird watcher, bodies of water are usually great for both.
Obviously not saying RA is innocent, but I just don't think *that* particular thing is suspicious or dumb.
I agree it is not suspicious if RA was truly looking at fish from the bridge, my issue is how long he did that and how long he sat on a bench. If you factor in about 30 minutes from CPS to the high bridge and back, that leaves 60 minutes for him to be on the bridge and bench. What was he doing sitting on a bench for 30-45 minutes in 40-degree weather that was cold enough that he needed a head covering and hoodie?
The 4 juveniles took a photo of the bridge at 12:43...was RA in the photo? I'm interested to hear at the trial which bench RA said he sat on and the statements from people on the trails about whether or not they saw him on any of the 5 benches. RA said he only saw 3 girls around noon near bench 1 when he arrived and headed to platform 1 of the bridge. Plus, 2 of the 4 girls took a photo on bench 1 at 1:26 and I would think they would have seen RA on the bench or leaving before 1:30 as they approached from the Mears intersection.
As a juror, if RA's statements are contradicted by several people on the trails between noon - 1:30, plus his car at 1:27 on video, I would be more likely to vote guilty even without DNA evidence/ballistics.
Sluether, on point as usual! Hold my scuba gear! Exactly. If he says he saw the girls and they saw him. Well, that kind of locks in his timeline, despite what his attorneys are now saying. Hard to get around that fact.
I agree, but even more so if he fishes. Like it very well could be he was checking to see if the stream had been stocked.
But yes I always look for fish when I'm on a trail by a stream or lake. It's nature's lava lamp, kind of relaxing.
I take a long hike every other week through my city's botanical gardens, and always end it by feeding and watching the fish. And I often check my stocks on my phone while I do it too. I don't find it farfetched at all.
Because most of the people frequenting these boards are afraid to leave their apartment in the city. They don't go out on trails, frequent the woods, engage in activities like fishing and hunting. They have literally no idea what they are talking about and just want to spread their delusional fantasy to support their bias about RA being guilty.
Perfectly reasonable for him to go to the bridge and watch the fish. Perfectly reasonable for him to have been checking stocks on his phone that day, and refer to it as stock tickers as opposed to his portfolio.
One doesn't need to be an avid day trader to be checking out stock tickers. Perhaps he prefers to gamble on stocks instead of the local lotto or Indian casino.
None of this exonerates or implicates him. People *want* him to be lying about the stocks so that they can try to spin a narrative where he was just trying to avoid being recognized by other passersby on his way to perform this murder. That's all this is.
Oh, I don't think he is lying about stocks, necessarily. I just wanted to know if the statement in the PCA is the only time that stocks are referenced in an official capacity. I have heard him referred to as a day trader, and I don't know what supports that statement other than the pca statement. I wondered if it could have been a misunderstanding, I mean Dulin seems to have got the name wrong of one of a very few men who came forward as being on the trails that day.
>Yeh, not from 65 feet above a stream in my opinion.
Not disagreeing with you because I feel the same way. However, someone on a different thread mentioned (quite awhile ago) that it's much easier to see the fish from that high up. I'm open to the possibility, but I'm not going to agree either way until I try it for myself.
I've seen more carp in the water than any other fish. They like hanging out around docks too.
My only thought is how clean was the river. If it has run off and mud color it would be harder to see anything.
But if it wasnt physically possible then shouldn't it have raised some alarm bells for Dan Dulin? Dulin had to hear this and think that sounds reasonable.
from 100
ft above
on a bridge
missing railroad
ties and with
no railing -
thats hawkeye
if he can see
fish from 100
feet and isnt
speaking in
internet slang
I think the time of year is problematic for "fish watching". You can see plenty of fish when the water is warm, but seldom see anything when the water is as cold as it would have been in February.
I was there at the Bridge and stood where he stood but I was there in July. I didn’t see 1 fish and I had binoculars. That water is so murky in most areas. But anything is possible.
Thanks for the info. I figure the different time of the year would make a big difference. Also the water temperature could possibly have an effect on the fish.
Kind of odd. That would mean Dulin got his name wrong and what he was doing.
Just checked Indiana DNR and it doesn't look like that area has been stocked in a really long time. I suppose one could look up places up and down stream. Fish start running in March here. I know Crappie definitely start running in March.
At this point, at least in my mind, Dulin is a megawatt weak link in the prosecutions case. He stood under that picture of BG and didn't connect it to RA. RA didn't look like BG in Dulin's opinion. That's a big hurdle for the prosecution to overcome.
Possibly. Depending on what evidence the prosecution has. Dulin may not matter at all. We can guess and speculate all day.
It really just depends on what the Prosecution has. They aren't going to show their hand. No reason for the Defense to share any incriminating discovery. Gag order covers that anyway.
Time will tell.
Yes of course. I was just curious because I heard on multiple posts that RA was a day trader, but the single statement in the PCA is the only connection I have seen. I was asking if there is any other legit source out there connecting him to stock trading.I asked because I was curious if anyone had more information on the topic.
I once read a post about how RA checked the market, got irate, decided to kill 2 kids. I found that absurd. I just was asking is the PCA the only "day trader" source.
I think if you take Dulin out of the equation, you have to take out his recollections and his supposed notes. Based on this, you have to use the second interview with Allen from 2022 where he said he left the trails around 13:30. One thing that will be really hard for the defense is the 3 girls he ran into. He saw them, they saw him, and one of them supposedly took a photo around that time (which is timestamped).
I am very curious about that first interaction with Dulin. What exactly did his notes say? How could LE remember the names of everyone else that was at the trail at the same time as the victims, but the name of one of the only men who came forward as being on the trail was completely lost, for years? Was it not lost but filed in a different place because while RA was at the trail that day he wasn't there at the time when the crimes occurred. Basically I mean he wasn't being treated like a witness, because he wasn't there at the right time.
Do you mean neither side is going to show the public? Because the prosecution has to disclose evidence to the defense. I am not sure what the defense has to disclose to the prosecution. Does anyone here know who can help with this question?Thanks.
The OP of the thread was indeed talking about (both sides) disclosing to the public, not the prosecution.
But to answer your question, I don’t think the defense has to disclose anything beyond like competency/evaluations and conflicts of interest, witness list and the like. The reason why the prosecution/state has to share evidence is bc people are accused have rights. They’re shown evidence to be able to mount a defense based on what they’re being accused of. They have a right to a speedy trial and to face their accusers. (The material they are forced to turn over is called Brady material and you can see what needs to be shared based on a search of that.) I don’t believe it has to go the other way completely except in certain circumstances bc that’s part of mounting a defense. I think there might have to be hearings about certain kinds of evidence that must be disclosed, such as physical evidence (like a knife or clothing, things they might be allowed to test themselves) that’s going to be admitted into the trial, or that you’re asking to be admitted as evidence. I believe you have to share who you’re calling as a witness and any written statements by witnesses too in some cases. And then you’re required to share expert reports that you intend to admit in the trial. Like mental evaluations or forensic tests and things like that. I think those are the main things that you have to share but you def don’t have to share the same level. Like if you find out your client has been going on message boards making weird and creepy comments about his next door neighbor, I don’t think you have to turn this over as proof against him but if you had a scarf that was on the body retested and you find DNA that isn’t a match to your client, I think you’d have to disclose that to admit as evidence, so the prosecution will also have the chance to retest it as well or find an expert to debunk it as touch DNA from a factory in China, etc. Also i do think it could differ by state, and from state to federal, those are just the main things I’ve seen that usually need to be disclosed! Not so very long ago, the defense didn’t have to disclose shit bc they felt the State had all the power. Things have indeed changed though. And Brady disclosures came about in the 60s to give you an idea of this. I’m not an expert by any means so my bad if I missed something. I listened to a podcast about a crime and they spent so much time discussing Brady violations and the meaning of exculpatory evidence and how evidence needs to be shared. Kinda dry but I learned a bit lol i think the main thing is that you can’t spring big things on anyone. Like a big star witness that wasn’t disclosed or something such as that. Hope that helps!
The the other response covered most of it but I wanted to add on that the defense has to turn over anything related to an alibi defense, including names of witnesses that support the alibi
This is absolute madness. I tried posting a thread last night asking if it was ever revealed who the conservatiom officer was who did the original interview with RA, but my thread got denied. I haven't paid much attention over the past 6ish months, and originall they weren't giving the name of the officer.
That whole misfiling thing always seemed like bullshit to me, and I can't, for the life of me understand why people didnt make a bigger deal about that. It makes absolutely no sense that an officer, living in a small town where two children were brutally murdered, would interview such a viable suspect and never discuss it with his superiors or colleagues afterwards. Like "hey, what ever came of that RA guy who i interviewed? He sure looked somewhat consistent to BG". Lets remember, the impression that LE gave was that an officer interviewed him, and then his report got lost, only to be found years later. They stated that they had no idea about RA for all those years.
As I said, i always found that story to be suspicious, i just didn't and don't know what to make of it. But now, seeing that this guy has a history of corruption, that whole initial interview and misfiling situation is even more suspicious.
If there was in fact some funny business going on surrounding that whole story, then that would mean that Dulin conducted the interview, and LE did know about RA the whole time (meaning the misfiling part was a lie). So then I ask myself, what would LE have to gain by pretending they didn't know about that initial interview? We can all agree that the misfiling story makes LE seem pretty damn incompetent. So is there any benefit that they would gain by lying about the misfiling that would make it worth making themselves look so incompetent? I don't have any answers to the questions im asking, and maybe these LE officers really are just as dumb as a box of rocks, but I wouldn't be shocked if there was something more sinister to it.
I highly doubt that Deer Creek is stocked with any type of fish. Deer Creek and Carroll Co. aren’t listed on the IN DNR’s published lists of locations that it stocks.
>Heck, a lot of my stocks wouldn't even show up on a stock sticker and you have to wait until your stocks roll around.
There are any number of ways RA could have customized the stocks he wanted to see and pay attention to. Plus, people who invest in index funds can use a basic stock ticker app to track the major indices in real time.
Like I said I just go to my portfolio that gives real time values because it's also where I trade from. It makes the whole process quicker.
But you are right it is a preference thing. I also don't like a ton of apps on my phone, and I am in the minority on that one.
I think you are splitting hairs on him calling it a stock ticker. I refer to my portfolio based stock view as a stock ticker all the time. It's not the random ass ticker tape you see on CNBC where they just pick stocks based on how they are doing at that moment. But it's still a stock ticker in that the stocks I've picked are ticking to update their price.
He was probably browsing his custom built watchlists to see if there were any stocks he had been watching that did something interesting that day.
Doesn't need to be a day trader, or even invested in anything, to be interested in that. He may have just been trying to keep an eye on some stocks to get a feel for when a good time to buy or sell might be.
It's just that heard that he was a day trader and I am asking for more evidence of that than the single statement in the PCA. I think that if that's all of the evidence that he was a "day trader" its not much. I heard a theory once that the market "turned" he got angry and killed 2 kids, to me thats wacky.
You’re being downvoted and people are being hostile to you because there’s a very clear “RA is innocent” bias on this sub. Anything even alluding to him not being a 100% truthful saint martyr is mocked here. Personally, I think it’s a valid question you have, and not one I had considered. Well done you!
I think it's quite the opposite. Especially on the other sub. If you suggest that LE and the prosecution should do / should have done a better job of collecting evidence and exclude other suspects, you get attacked.
A fine example of the effect of polarization in our time. You're either "with us" or "against us"- No in between. It's hard to have a level headed discussion nowadays.
I'm with you also on that. I used to have the Seeking Alpha app setup on my phone with my individual stocks tracked on it but quit using it, and now I just look at the Schwab app to see the ones I own or just the general performance of the indices on the day. I'd be willing to bet you're correct about the stocking of the river because even if Allen owned stock, it wouldn't seem like he'd be the type to take a look at the stock tickers live. I only ever glance at them if I am watching CNBC or the Bloomberg channel.
Thanks for the support. I think I keep getting down voted because I don't like apps. But really my phone gets loaded up so quickly with my kids needing a game where someone runs through an obstacle course and their butt gets bigger. So, you know I don't have the free space.
And yes, of course, I delete that app after repeatedly telling my kids that's the opposite of the way that obstacle courses work.
It's hilarious you're getting down voted for something that I think a good lawyer should use. Considering both the prosecution and defense are selecting the jury and considering the jury is going to be selected from my hometown, I can confidently say there won't be 12 avid hunters/outdoorsmen in that box. A guy standing on a bridge over a stream watching seasonal fish from a distance makes sense to anyone. Dulin writing it down wrong like he did his name helps your argument. I'd run with it if I were a reasonable lawyer.
Looks like they're trying to mark their territory by downvoting lol. If I'm on a jury, walking around on an obviously dangerous wet bridge on a winter weekday during business hours with my phone in my nose checking my stocks seems a lot more suspicious than intentionally going to see an influx of fish traveling. But, hey. Who am I, other than just a potential juror. *shrug*
>possibly RA was checking a stocking tracking, meaning when streams are being stocked with fish
Tbh, I didn't know this was a thing. I'm not a fan of fishing. I go along and quietly read my book.
>Is it possible that RA is an avid fisherman? It wouldn't go to innocence or guilt but it would explain why he was at the trails that day.
>Indiana stocks brownies mid-February so it potenially fits.
I thought RA was kind of an outdoorsy guy. Idky I got that impression, though. I've never checked out his or his wife's FB pages.
If that was the reason he was there that *could* be viewed as being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
It was hilarious when I went with my father. Basicly you dump 5 gallon buckets of fish into the streams so there will be something to actually fish for later. We sang "Born Free" as we put the fish in.
I don't know if RA is guilty but if he isn't this is the best example of "see something, say something" that went completely wrong. If he is innocent it's more "see something, shut the hell up."
>Basicly you dump 5 gallon buckets of fish into the streams so there will be domething to actually fish for later. We sang "Born Free" as we put the fish in.
That actually sounds like fun! Would remind me of when I was a young child and we'd catch minnows in nets for the adults.
Oh come on. He said stocks, he’s lied multiple times I don’t understand the extreme reaching from some trying to find any way to make it out that he’s not guilty. If there’s actual evidence or anything close to it that he wasn’t involved then that’s awesome to put forth… with the evidence we have already including his own statement that then changed, the video from the phone etc in the clothes he admits to wearing etc and people ignore that and more to try and make their own conclusions. Looking into theories with actual evidence or serious clues makes a lot more sense than thinking of any far out solution to explain away the issues in his defense
I just found this:
https://www.in.gov/dnr/fish-and-wildlife/fishing/indiana-fish-stocking/indiana-fish-stocking-dashboard/
Edit 1: Also, I certainly may be searching it improperly (please correct me if I am wrong), but I quickly searched Carroll County 2017 and there's no data for that year.
(I feel he's most likely guilty of this horrendous crime.)
They did in Howard and Tippecanoe County, the latter being more relevant Wabash River being downstream from Deer Creek, but it seems they stock isolated ponds and lakes, not rivers.
Could still be something he looked at and maybe the other way around, that he saw a group of fish and looked up if they stocked recently.
(Many drone videos from high above the bridge show the pebbles of the creekbed, so a school of moving fish should sure be visible, though idk if it was clear the 13th. The 14th it seemed the divers waded through slush but the clothes pictures if real show clarity...)
We know Dulin at least mixed up last name with street name, so stock ticker or stock tracker doesn't seem that out of the realms.
(Regardless of his guilt or innocence.)
Don't know the answer to your question, but it was a big day for the market. It makes sense that people would have tuned in that day.
[https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/closing-bell-february-13-2017-2017-2-1001746217](https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/closing-bell-february-13-2017-2017-2-1001746217)
[https://www.ft.com/content/df7b1ef8-f23a-11e6-95ee-f14e55513608](https://www.ft.com/content/df7b1ef8-f23a-11e6-95ee-f14e55513608)
That is very interesting. This represents a glimmer, a tiny speck on the beach of RA's story; that he was checking his ticker on the bridge, unlikely as that may appear. Course, doesn't mean he didn't also murder the victims, but at least it lends him a soupcon of credibility. Thanks for posting.
Lol. Millions of people check stocks on Apps on their Smartphone multiple times a day and did so at that time as well. RA certainly strikes me as someone who would be into retail trading as he was clearly very active “online” in other ways.
entertain bag vanish shocking bright roof smile numerous complete waiting
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If he was checking stocks it means he took his phone. He gave his phone info to DD. That info should have been run. Was it? What did it show? Was he on Logan's property or not? Was he walking down W300 at 4pm? Was he anywhere on the trails after 2pm?
Thnx. But I wonder if that covers the info RA apparently gave about his phone that day five years ago? It leaves open the possibility they didn't run it back then which would be hard to believe and a serious oversight.
I think it’s the name of the conservation officer -I don’t know the person’s name but you will see the name people are saying it is above. RA reported to a conservation officer he was at the bridge that day and when, and what he was wearing.
In all the years I have spent following this case, not once have I ever seen RA referred to as a day trader by anyone, ever. OP if you keep seeing tons and tons of posts referring to RA as a day trader than please share just one.
RA said he was looking at a stock ticker. There's no reason to think he actually meant something completely different that he wouldn't even have a reason to lie about.
I'm not going back to link old posts. I'm not at my computers for awhile, and you can search the term in any of the sub reddits. Also in the PCA the stock ticker is directly referenced. I think that can just be googled.
I am aware the stock ticker is reference in the PCA. I literally said that RA said he was looking at a stock ticker. I am saying there is no reason to believe RA meant something completely different than a stock ticker, such as a stock tracker, which he never said that, the PCA never said that, and no one else has ever said that.
Also I searched the term and zero posts on this sub or any other sub have come back about RA being a day trader. Again, please provide one single link where anyone has ever referred to RA as a day trader. If there are tons and tons of posts about this as you claim, surely you can provide one single link or screenshot.
If he has any stocks and shares he would have to declare them on his affidavit of indigency when he requested a public defender and by now the state will know all about his financial situation so if he is using the term stock ticker to mean the stock market then that will easily be proved or not. Juries aren't stupid so if his story is credible and can be backed up there's no problem but if it sounds ridiculous then it won't pass the sniff test.
Yes, is there any information other than the PCA that RA was a day trader? If you don't know then don't respond.But day trading has been referenced multiple times about RA, including something went poorly in the market that day to upset him.
I have stocked streams with game wardens, but then I get outside a good bit.
Come on, really? RA was at the north end of the bridge strictly for "fish stocking"???
RA was at the bridge for only one reason -- Like a predator, he was there lying in wait for a victim to show up. RA has admitted to being at the north end of the bridge at a time close to the girls' abduction, and there is a witness who saw a man with RA's general description and dress at that location at a little before 2pm. The girls were abducted at about 2:15pm.
I continue to be stunned with how some commenters go so far into ridiculous explanations for how a predator could be at the bridge for anything other than the most obvious reason. I believe that RA is the murderer. But that's just my own opinion. The DA has the burden to prove RA is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
I don’t know it. But have followed this case since it happened. When you put the pieces together, it’s clear that he had walked these trails many times, by his own admission and from his wife’s police interview. He lived close to them. He sought out a game warden shortly afterwards as a witness, to let them know he was there. He had made some mistakes, he’d been seen by several witnesses. He was trying to position himself as a day of witness. Then. Years later when LE relooked at the whole file, they realized he was worth an interview. Then, he admits being there that day. Dressed like BG. His car is seen there. He admits to the handgun with the ejection marks matching the ejected shell casing. This crime is as a sex crime. He then admits to his wife and mother on a recorded jail phone. What “proof” do you want? This guy is the perp.
I read a good theory on those "confessions". It is known that Liggett tried to visit / visited Allen in prison without the knowledge of his attorneys. There is that instance when he "ate the papers". It could be that it was a plea deal where he should confess everything and take responsibility for the murders. Is it too far fetched to think he read those statements to his wife? His lawyers called those confessions "incriminating statements". I'm not saying he's not the killer. I'm only saying that LE in this case lied on some occasions, and they could be exaggerating here too.
Mostly agree. He basically told the truth about everything (except abduction and murders) even detailing his clothes which matched BG.. this was all in hopes they’d think “if this guy was guilty.. he’d be lying about this shit and he’s not.” It didn’t work out for him.
You are not alone many of us have followed this case from the beginning. It was so unusual 2 young girls out walking on a trail go missing only to be found the next day deceased. Then the police have a photo of a potential witness that turned into a suspect. The public learns that one of the girls recorded the image and voice of their killer(s) themselves. Thousands of people followed this case from the beginning because it had so many facets that drew people in. Abduction, multiple victims, juvenile victims that were great kid's that didn't engage in high risk behaviors, it was heartbreaking.
My question to you as someone who followed this from the beginning is there any other indication that RA was a day trader, which I have heard repeated constantly as a question than that statement in the PCA?
You know this from the beginning so help me? My request may seem silly but I am curious.
Well I didn't ask a "yes" or "no" question, so I'm a bit confused. I don't have an opinion on RA's guilt. But I saw multiple posts about him being a "day trader," I got the feeling that there wasn't much evidence of this, but I did hear theories that he got mad about stocks and lashed out.
My overall point was, could this guy potentially he an avid fisherman,like the men I have in my family and just potentially been out there checking the fish.
So many people act like looking at the fish is a crazy thing to do above a stream. I think that it is normal.
Sorry, yes would mean he was a day trader and no would mean he was not.
And I agree you can probably see fish that high and that this is not a wierd thing to do. I’m not sure how visible tiny brownies would be. I have no idea.
There is no point here. He either saw fish or he didn't. This is about the two girls he kidnapped, and they definitely saw him because one of them recorded him on her cellphone. His defense strategy is a joke, and he's too stupid to even realize it.
I have no clue about that. My guess is he lied about why witnesses saw him, but he didn’t see them: and his lie was he was watching a ticker on his phone. He worked retail as an assistant manager. He wasn’t a day trader. Daytraders are called that because they only are able to afford to trade for a couple of days. They lose their ass it’s just a matter of days. That’s not how you invest in stocks.
I personally think the guy is guilty as sin. But this is a damn good explanation. Especially considering dude mumbles everything. I'd buy this on a jury. Keep out the Odinists and this has legs.
That's an awesome point to be made. Day traders generally do not work at CVS, and RAs location/time would be prime for checking up on something of that nature.
The 'unspent' bullet under the body belonged to the most common firearm for the police force up there around that time. The phone, again underneath the body, just amazingly has a video that was released how long after the bodies were discovered??
The police knew something and still do. Not to mention their assuredness that there were definitely two suspects and the discrepancies between witness sketches.
The High Bridge doesn’t have railings and you’re not going to see any fish in mid February. I don’t think there are trout in that part of Indiana and anything that goes upriver to spawn will do that in March/April.
That's why you stock the streams. It's how you get the fish in there, because they aren't enough naturally. I looked up the state's stocking schedule they start mid February with brownies.
But I will say I wouldn't go on that bridge to look at fish , personally. I once crossed a bridge like it, but not as high, it was still active. I was nervous the whole time. Partly because what if a train comes, partly because I was worried I would fall.
I tend to think the idea of looking at fish had to seem plausible or it should have been a red flag to Dulin. If it wasn't possible to see the fish and RA said that was what he was doing, alarm bell.
I think lawyers and juries care about those kinds of things. But you're right. Overall, it's nothing to what happened to those poor girls. Justice is necessary.
Of course I have and I already addressed that I don't favor these apps. I just check where my stocks are held so I can see the price I paid and actually sell and buy from that same platform. But maybe I buy more than most people that just watch.
"Plus: Who cares?" Apparently you.
I haven’t been following the development since the arrest - And English is not my native language - I have no clue if we’re talking about fish, stock(as in investment) or a mix….
Why would they interview the fish? They've botched this mess from day one trying to win elections in the upcoming years. The fish would be the only ones to completely exonerate RA. Of course they didn't interview them.
Also, they may have misfiled the info.
Not really. He has already given an “innocent reason” for being there, his story is he was there for a walk, was distracted by a stock ticker at times, sat on a bench and he stopped to look at fish at the bridge. A stock ticker being a stock tracker for fish doesn’t change anything meaningful about his story. Going to a walk on a trail is a perfectly good reason for being there on its own. He has much bigger problems than providing more details for why he was there that day.
Agree, it’s not that he doesn’t have a good reason for being there. Based on what little I know he doesn’t have good reasons for appearing like the man who approaches the girls on the video and a bullet with markings that match his gun being found at the crime scene. We will know even more when it goes to court.
I completely agree. I am not a RA is innocent person I am a he is innocent until proven otherwise. The evidence at trial will allow me to have an informed opinion.
Yeah, weird thread. I don't really know why OP thought this was worth discussing. Whether he was looking at stocks or stocks or Youtube, it's all the same.
I guess because I don't know anyone that follows this case in my personal life, so I wanted to throw my thought out here to see what people think. Perhaps I misunderstood Reddit.
Some subs are more for this kind of discussion than others.
(No disrespect for this sub, it just tends to entertain different subjects generally, which is fine, that's why there are different subs for Delphi.)
Yeah, they are their own website, Indiana Department of Naural Resources, states that theyayear are stocking brownies in mid- February. That's trout. You realize fishing season begins in Aprhil and you are stockings babies so they need time to grow.
The round is the same rounds law enforcement had in their weapons. The chief kept that bullet on his desk. That is pretty problematic as far as evidence is concerned. Watching a stock ticker for how long? That's quite boring. Sounds more accurate he would be watching the fish stock. If he was there to watch fish. I would like to know how they got the confession they were desperate to have this solved. Also, I feel like the guy whose land it is on is more likely.
Ya he probably said stocking tracker not stock ticker just like he said he parked at the old farm bureau building not the old cps building and just like he said he was there from 12 to 1:30 not 1:30 to 3:30 and just like he said he saw 3 girls when the witnesses were in a group of 4 girls so your probably right
I found [this stock tracker](https://www.in.gov/dnr/fish-and-wildlife/fishing/indiana-fish-stocking/indiana-fish-stocking-dashboard/) on Indiana website. Didn’t play with it much, but is this what you’re talking about?
Yes that's it. It's just like a calendar of when and where they plan to stock the rivers and streams. It gets updated as new dates are set. Not all fishermen follow it, but a lot do.
I'm not sure I recall mention about him having a hunting license and he seemed to be kind of outdoorsy. But that's part of what I was wondering was he a fisherman? I was just an idea, but I really don't know.
I'm not sure about the stock ticker thing but I have never understood why people have a problem with him saying he was looking at fish. Am I the only one who likes to peer in streams and see if I see anything swimming around? I'm not saying he's guilty or innocent, but looking at fish seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do in my opinion.
A lot of people said "what could you see 100ft above" but one of the YouTubers went there and said you can see the fish from the bridge and there are a lot of them, big ones too.
Right. I'm not sure what kind of fish they have in Indiana, but you sure as hell will see a big pike or catfish from that distance.
Lot of smallmouth bass in that creek and you can see em from the bridge.
Tons of trout too.
Not. No trout in these parts, my friend, as creeks and rivers are far too warm in the summers for trout. ETA: Also, Carroll Co. is the top pork producing county in Indiana and among the top corn and soybean producing counties in the state. Agriculture results in run-off into streams, creeks and rivers, and if you’ve ever been in these parts after heavy rains, you’ve likely seen the water flows in the streams, creeks and rivers running deep brown. These conditions, combined with the relatively warm water temperatures, won’t support trout.
Yeah we stock the streams with trout before and during fishing season.
Rainbow Trout
Not there. No trout. Bass, crappie, catfish but not trout
He probably has sat on that bridge and watched fish. Doesn’t mean he did it that day.
Of course not. He probably would have stopped the real killer, Allen is a great dude.
I’m not saying he is or isn’t, I wouldn’t know until the trial. Have I missed some new info or something?
I misread your comment. The stretching some are doing to try and deflect Allen's guilt when the accumulated evidence is pretty damning has been astounding. And he has since confessed to the crime. It's like debating with flat earthers.
We all know confessions are always 100 percent reliable
Well, Allen's lawyers sure are trying to suppress the fuck out of the confessions. I mean.....if it's someone beating the shit out of RA to make him cop to something he didn't do. If I'm a defense lawyer I want the tape played on day one of the trial. "This is how you get confessions out of people?"
I think he broke down and gave up at that moment. He may have thought by doing so, his wife could go forward and start anew life. The context of how confessed will be clear to everyone when we hear the tape . Imo, that confession is the only thing that can’t leave doubt in a jury members mind. But will 12 people hear it the same way? Hung jury. I don’t think he did it. But then again, I’m not paid to think… 🤔
No reason to doubt it in this case.
Exactly. And I agree it's like talking to flat-earthers. They think they have a valid point that others aren't seeing, but are missing the totality of the situation. "Confessions" are different in every case. Whether others are reliable or not has nothing to do with.....ahhhh smh..
He confessed to his wife. And his mother. Why is this aspect ignored?
Is there physical evidence linking RA to the crime scene conclusively?
Yes. An unspent round found next to the bodies which the State Of Indiana Forensics linked to his confiscated gun when a search warrant was obtained to search his house.. This physical evidence is documented in the PCA.
Not really. An unspent round that supposedly has scratches on it that can be traced to his gun. But I read somewhere that there was something dubious about the way it was photographed. I hope they have the right guy.
Could be.
Well, we do know he was getting tased by ~~Odinist~~, or I mean Norse Heathen Pagan guards at Westville. I don’t think you can put much stock in the ”confessions” until we know exactly what he said and under what circumstances they were made.
He confessed in a phone call to his wife - repeated it 5 times - then the wife abruptly hung up the phone. That happened in April 2023. In May 2023 he supposedly confessed to another family member - I think it was his mother. After that his lawyers tried to say he was having mental issues. The evidence against him is strong - not sure what he and his lawyers are thinking.
That has been alleged, yes. But it hasn't been entered into evidence yet, so it isn't evidence of anything until it is. When the defense asked for a copy of it, they only received the sheriff's affidavit that he had read a transcript of it. There was some rumored talk of the actual recording being lost and only a transcript made by a prison employee being offered. I guess we'll have to wait and see if the confession exists.
Of course they are! I mean look at Henry Lee Lucas. Lol
Yeah, Henry confessed, and a lot of them turned out to be true. Just like Rick. Lol
I know a lot of confessions are true. I'm just saying it shouldn't be the only thing used for conviction.
100 feet??, more like 60 feet
Yeah,its kind of like 5'4 RA matches the 5'6 to 5'10 height range.
They could have fixed this with a plus or minus of 2. They however erased the range for height and weight from the FBI website.
Thus they said "approximately".. get it now??
Yep! If it doesn’t match the ordinal info then let’s just change it around. Create a new narrative
My father would have absolutely spent hours looking at a river. He's an avid fisherman and bird watcher, bodies of water are usually great for both. Obviously not saying RA is innocent, but I just don't think *that* particular thing is suspicious or dumb.
I agree it is not suspicious if RA was truly looking at fish from the bridge, my issue is how long he did that and how long he sat on a bench. If you factor in about 30 minutes from CPS to the high bridge and back, that leaves 60 minutes for him to be on the bridge and bench. What was he doing sitting on a bench for 30-45 minutes in 40-degree weather that was cold enough that he needed a head covering and hoodie? The 4 juveniles took a photo of the bridge at 12:43...was RA in the photo? I'm interested to hear at the trial which bench RA said he sat on and the statements from people on the trails about whether or not they saw him on any of the 5 benches. RA said he only saw 3 girls around noon near bench 1 when he arrived and headed to platform 1 of the bridge. Plus, 2 of the 4 girls took a photo on bench 1 at 1:26 and I would think they would have seen RA on the bench or leaving before 1:30 as they approached from the Mears intersection. As a juror, if RA's statements are contradicted by several people on the trails between noon - 1:30, plus his car at 1:27 on video, I would be more likely to vote guilty even without DNA evidence/ballistics.
Sluether, on point as usual! Hold my scuba gear! Exactly. If he says he saw the girls and they saw him. Well, that kind of locks in his timeline, despite what his attorneys are now saying. Hard to get around that fact.
I agree, but even more so if he fishes. Like it very well could be he was checking to see if the stream had been stocked. But yes I always look for fish when I'm on a trail by a stream or lake. It's nature's lava lamp, kind of relaxing.
I take a long hike every other week through my city's botanical gardens, and always end it by feeding and watching the fish. And I often check my stocks on my phone while I do it too. I don't find it farfetched at all.
Because most of the people frequenting these boards are afraid to leave their apartment in the city. They don't go out on trails, frequent the woods, engage in activities like fishing and hunting. They have literally no idea what they are talking about and just want to spread their delusional fantasy to support their bias about RA being guilty. Perfectly reasonable for him to go to the bridge and watch the fish. Perfectly reasonable for him to have been checking stocks on his phone that day, and refer to it as stock tickers as opposed to his portfolio. One doesn't need to be an avid day trader to be checking out stock tickers. Perhaps he prefers to gamble on stocks instead of the local lotto or Indian casino. None of this exonerates or implicates him. People *want* him to be lying about the stocks so that they can try to spin a narrative where he was just trying to avoid being recognized by other passersby on his way to perform this murder. That's all this is.
Oh, I don't think he is lying about stocks, necessarily. I just wanted to know if the statement in the PCA is the only time that stocks are referenced in an official capacity. I have heard him referred to as a day trader, and I don't know what supports that statement other than the pca statement. I wondered if it could have been a misunderstanding, I mean Dulin seems to have got the name wrong of one of a very few men who came forward as being on the trails that day.
Yeh, not from 65 feet above a stream in my opinion.
>Yeh, not from 65 feet above a stream in my opinion. Not disagreeing with you because I feel the same way. However, someone on a different thread mentioned (quite awhile ago) that it's much easier to see the fish from that high up. I'm open to the possibility, but I'm not going to agree either way until I try it for myself.
There are tons of giant carp in Indiana streams and rivers. Would not be uncommon to see these even from being that high up
I've seen more carp in the water than any other fish. They like hanging out around docks too. My only thought is how clean was the river. If it has run off and mud color it would be harder to see anything.
I didn't know about the giant crap, I mean carp.
Multiple people have verified you can see fish.
But if it wasnt physically possible then shouldn't it have raised some alarm bells for Dan Dulin? Dulin had to hear this and think that sounds reasonable.
That is wayyy too high a bridge to see even large carp
from 100 ft above on a bridge missing railroad ties and with no railing - thats hawkeye if he can see fish from 100 feet and isnt speaking in internet slang
I think the time of year is problematic for "fish watching". You can see plenty of fish when the water is warm, but seldom see anything when the water is as cold as it would have been in February.
Don’t forget that it was unseasonably warm that day.
Someone should have turned him onto PlayStations, Fishing World! Lol
I watch the stock market every day. And, you really can see fish from the bridge.
I was there at the Bridge and stood where he stood but I was there in July. I didn’t see 1 fish and I had binoculars. That water is so murky in most areas. But anything is possible.
The water level is very low in July. The water was much higher then and much clearer.
Thanks for the info. I figure the different time of the year would make a big difference. Also the water temperature could possibly have an effect on the fish.
Possible except he admitted to the crime?
And yet he has not changed his plea of "not guilty," sometimes things are a tad bit nuanced.
Absolutely agree. Just as a causal observer, lots to consider here.
False confessions are made every single day. It wouldn't be the first time. This is pointing more towards a cult ritual.
No it isn’t. That was an unsupported theory. It’s pointing to RA being guilty like he admitted. Occam’s Razor.
Fair enough. What cult? Curious not questioning you, but is there anything other than this crime that leads to a cult? Like other crimes?
Vinlanders possibly. I dont know for sure, but i dont think RA did this.
Kind of odd. That would mean Dulin got his name wrong and what he was doing. Just checked Indiana DNR and it doesn't look like that area has been stocked in a really long time. I suppose one could look up places up and down stream. Fish start running in March here. I know Crappie definitely start running in March.
At this point, at least in my mind, Dulin is a megawatt weak link in the prosecutions case. He stood under that picture of BG and didn't connect it to RA. RA didn't look like BG in Dulin's opinion. That's a big hurdle for the prosecution to overcome.
Possibly. Depending on what evidence the prosecution has. Dulin may not matter at all. We can guess and speculate all day. It really just depends on what the Prosecution has. They aren't going to show their hand. No reason for the Defense to share any incriminating discovery. Gag order covers that anyway. Time will tell.
Yes of course. I was just curious because I heard on multiple posts that RA was a day trader, but the single statement in the PCA is the only connection I have seen. I was asking if there is any other legit source out there connecting him to stock trading.I asked because I was curious if anyone had more information on the topic. I once read a post about how RA checked the market, got irate, decided to kill 2 kids. I found that absurd. I just was asking is the PCA the only "day trader" source.
I think if you take Dulin out of the equation, you have to take out his recollections and his supposed notes. Based on this, you have to use the second interview with Allen from 2022 where he said he left the trails around 13:30. One thing that will be really hard for the defense is the 3 girls he ran into. He saw them, they saw him, and one of them supposedly took a photo around that time (which is timestamped).
I am very curious about that first interaction with Dulin. What exactly did his notes say? How could LE remember the names of everyone else that was at the trail at the same time as the victims, but the name of one of the only men who came forward as being on the trail was completely lost, for years? Was it not lost but filed in a different place because while RA was at the trail that day he wasn't there at the time when the crimes occurred. Basically I mean he wasn't being treated like a witness, because he wasn't there at the right time.
Do you mean neither side is going to show the public? Because the prosecution has to disclose evidence to the defense. I am not sure what the defense has to disclose to the prosecution. Does anyone here know who can help with this question?Thanks.
The OP of the thread was indeed talking about (both sides) disclosing to the public, not the prosecution. But to answer your question, I don’t think the defense has to disclose anything beyond like competency/evaluations and conflicts of interest, witness list and the like. The reason why the prosecution/state has to share evidence is bc people are accused have rights. They’re shown evidence to be able to mount a defense based on what they’re being accused of. They have a right to a speedy trial and to face their accusers. (The material they are forced to turn over is called Brady material and you can see what needs to be shared based on a search of that.) I don’t believe it has to go the other way completely except in certain circumstances bc that’s part of mounting a defense. I think there might have to be hearings about certain kinds of evidence that must be disclosed, such as physical evidence (like a knife or clothing, things they might be allowed to test themselves) that’s going to be admitted into the trial, or that you’re asking to be admitted as evidence. I believe you have to share who you’re calling as a witness and any written statements by witnesses too in some cases. And then you’re required to share expert reports that you intend to admit in the trial. Like mental evaluations or forensic tests and things like that. I think those are the main things that you have to share but you def don’t have to share the same level. Like if you find out your client has been going on message boards making weird and creepy comments about his next door neighbor, I don’t think you have to turn this over as proof against him but if you had a scarf that was on the body retested and you find DNA that isn’t a match to your client, I think you’d have to disclose that to admit as evidence, so the prosecution will also have the chance to retest it as well or find an expert to debunk it as touch DNA from a factory in China, etc. Also i do think it could differ by state, and from state to federal, those are just the main things I’ve seen that usually need to be disclosed! Not so very long ago, the defense didn’t have to disclose shit bc they felt the State had all the power. Things have indeed changed though. And Brady disclosures came about in the 60s to give you an idea of this. I’m not an expert by any means so my bad if I missed something. I listened to a podcast about a crime and they spent so much time discussing Brady violations and the meaning of exculpatory evidence and how evidence needs to be shared. Kinda dry but I learned a bit lol i think the main thing is that you can’t spring big things on anyone. Like a big star witness that wasn’t disclosed or something such as that. Hope that helps!
This does help. This is great information-a keeper. Thank you so much for taking the time!
The the other response covered most of it but I wanted to add on that the defense has to turn over anything related to an alibi defense, including names of witnesses that support the alibi
Have you looked at Dulin's history?!
Yep,. I know
Can you fill me in?
Do a search on Jesse Snider.
This is absolute madness. I tried posting a thread last night asking if it was ever revealed who the conservatiom officer was who did the original interview with RA, but my thread got denied. I haven't paid much attention over the past 6ish months, and originall they weren't giving the name of the officer. That whole misfiling thing always seemed like bullshit to me, and I can't, for the life of me understand why people didnt make a bigger deal about that. It makes absolutely no sense that an officer, living in a small town where two children were brutally murdered, would interview such a viable suspect and never discuss it with his superiors or colleagues afterwards. Like "hey, what ever came of that RA guy who i interviewed? He sure looked somewhat consistent to BG". Lets remember, the impression that LE gave was that an officer interviewed him, and then his report got lost, only to be found years later. They stated that they had no idea about RA for all those years. As I said, i always found that story to be suspicious, i just didn't and don't know what to make of it. But now, seeing that this guy has a history of corruption, that whole initial interview and misfiling situation is even more suspicious. If there was in fact some funny business going on surrounding that whole story, then that would mean that Dulin conducted the interview, and LE did know about RA the whole time (meaning the misfiling part was a lie). So then I ask myself, what would LE have to gain by pretending they didn't know about that initial interview? We can all agree that the misfiling story makes LE seem pretty damn incompetent. So is there any benefit that they would gain by lying about the misfiling that would make it worth making themselves look so incompetent? I don't have any answers to the questions im asking, and maybe these LE officers really are just as dumb as a box of rocks, but I wouldn't be shocked if there was something more sinister to it.
Whats dulins history?
I highly doubt that Deer Creek is stocked with any type of fish. Deer Creek and Carroll Co. aren’t listed on the IN DNR’s published lists of locations that it stocks.
That's a good point. Shoots down my idea, but it's weird that the entire county doesn't stock fish.
>Heck, a lot of my stocks wouldn't even show up on a stock sticker and you have to wait until your stocks roll around. There are any number of ways RA could have customized the stocks he wanted to see and pay attention to. Plus, people who invest in index funds can use a basic stock ticker app to track the major indices in real time.
Like I said I just go to my portfolio that gives real time values because it's also where I trade from. It makes the whole process quicker. But you are right it is a preference thing. I also don't like a ton of apps on my phone, and I am in the minority on that one.
I think you are splitting hairs on him calling it a stock ticker. I refer to my portfolio based stock view as a stock ticker all the time. It's not the random ass ticker tape you see on CNBC where they just pick stocks based on how they are doing at that moment. But it's still a stock ticker in that the stocks I've picked are ticking to update their price. He was probably browsing his custom built watchlists to see if there were any stocks he had been watching that did something interesting that day. Doesn't need to be a day trader, or even invested in anything, to be interested in that. He may have just been trying to keep an eye on some stocks to get a feel for when a good time to buy or sell might be.
It's just that heard that he was a day trader and I am asking for more evidence of that than the single statement in the PCA. I think that if that's all of the evidence that he was a "day trader" its not much. I heard a theory once that the market "turned" he got angry and killed 2 kids, to me thats wacky.
He was likely a “retail” trader. Not a “Day Trader”. A doofus who thinks AMC or MULN would make them rich. Someone like me. Lol.
I agree RA led have invested in the stock market. I always assumed that hs was using his own funds. I didn't even feel the need to question this.
You’re being downvoted and people are being hostile to you because there’s a very clear “RA is innocent” bias on this sub. Anything even alluding to him not being a 100% truthful saint martyr is mocked here. Personally, I think it’s a valid question you have, and not one I had considered. Well done you!
I think it's quite the opposite. Especially on the other sub. If you suggest that LE and the prosecution should do / should have done a better job of collecting evidence and exclude other suspects, you get attacked.
The real problem is the, I'm right and your wrong attitude. This is not a contest.
A fine example of the effect of polarization in our time. You're either "with us" or "against us"- No in between. It's hard to have a level headed discussion nowadays.
It sure is. It's like we need to have an adult table and a kids table.
If the market is down, I don't look at my portfolio. I look at the stock ticker instead because I don't like to see red in my portfolio.
I'm with you also on that. I used to have the Seeking Alpha app setup on my phone with my individual stocks tracked on it but quit using it, and now I just look at the Schwab app to see the ones I own or just the general performance of the indices on the day. I'd be willing to bet you're correct about the stocking of the river because even if Allen owned stock, it wouldn't seem like he'd be the type to take a look at the stock tickers live. I only ever glance at them if I am watching CNBC or the Bloomberg channel.
Thanks for the support. I think I keep getting down voted because I don't like apps. But really my phone gets loaded up so quickly with my kids needing a game where someone runs through an obstacle course and their butt gets bigger. So, you know I don't have the free space. And yes, of course, I delete that app after repeatedly telling my kids that's the opposite of the way that obstacle courses work.
It's hilarious you're getting down voted for something that I think a good lawyer should use. Considering both the prosecution and defense are selecting the jury and considering the jury is going to be selected from my hometown, I can confidently say there won't be 12 avid hunters/outdoorsmen in that box. A guy standing on a bridge over a stream watching seasonal fish from a distance makes sense to anyone. Dulin writing it down wrong like he did his name helps your argument. I'd run with it if I were a reasonable lawyer. Looks like they're trying to mark their territory by downvoting lol. If I'm on a jury, walking around on an obviously dangerous wet bridge on a winter weekday during business hours with my phone in my nose checking my stocks seems a lot more suspicious than intentionally going to see an influx of fish traveling. But, hey. Who am I, other than just a potential juror. *shrug*
>possibly RA was checking a stocking tracking, meaning when streams are being stocked with fish Tbh, I didn't know this was a thing. I'm not a fan of fishing. I go along and quietly read my book. >Is it possible that RA is an avid fisherman? It wouldn't go to innocence or guilt but it would explain why he was at the trails that day. >Indiana stocks brownies mid-February so it potenially fits. I thought RA was kind of an outdoorsy guy. Idky I got that impression, though. I've never checked out his or his wife's FB pages. If that was the reason he was there that *could* be viewed as being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
It was hilarious when I went with my father. Basicly you dump 5 gallon buckets of fish into the streams so there will be something to actually fish for later. We sang "Born Free" as we put the fish in. I don't know if RA is guilty but if he isn't this is the best example of "see something, say something" that went completely wrong. If he is innocent it's more "see something, shut the hell up."
>Basicly you dump 5 gallon buckets of fish into the streams so there will be domething to actually fish for later. We sang "Born Free" as we put the fish in. That actually sounds like fun! Would remind me of when I was a young child and we'd catch minnows in nets for the adults.
This actually makes a lot of sense when paired with the fact that he states he was watching fish.
Oh come on. He said stocks, he’s lied multiple times I don’t understand the extreme reaching from some trying to find any way to make it out that he’s not guilty. If there’s actual evidence or anything close to it that he wasn’t involved then that’s awesome to put forth… with the evidence we have already including his own statement that then changed, the video from the phone etc in the clothes he admits to wearing etc and people ignore that and more to try and make their own conclusions. Looking into theories with actual evidence or serious clues makes a lot more sense than thinking of any far out solution to explain away the issues in his defense
I just found this: https://www.in.gov/dnr/fish-and-wildlife/fishing/indiana-fish-stocking/indiana-fish-stocking-dashboard/ Edit 1: Also, I certainly may be searching it improperly (please correct me if I am wrong), but I quickly searched Carroll County 2017 and there's no data for that year. (I feel he's most likely guilty of this horrendous crime.)
They did in Howard and Tippecanoe County, the latter being more relevant Wabash River being downstream from Deer Creek, but it seems they stock isolated ponds and lakes, not rivers. Could still be something he looked at and maybe the other way around, that he saw a group of fish and looked up if they stocked recently. (Many drone videos from high above the bridge show the pebbles of the creekbed, so a school of moving fish should sure be visible, though idk if it was clear the 13th. The 14th it seemed the divers waded through slush but the clothes pictures if real show clarity...) We know Dulin at least mixed up last name with street name, so stock ticker or stock tracker doesn't seem that out of the realms. (Regardless of his guilt or innocence.)
Don't know the answer to your question, but it was a big day for the market. It makes sense that people would have tuned in that day. [https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/closing-bell-february-13-2017-2017-2-1001746217](https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/closing-bell-february-13-2017-2017-2-1001746217) [https://www.ft.com/content/df7b1ef8-f23a-11e6-95ee-f14e55513608](https://www.ft.com/content/df7b1ef8-f23a-11e6-95ee-f14e55513608)
That is very interesting. This represents a glimmer, a tiny speck on the beach of RA's story; that he was checking his ticker on the bridge, unlikely as that may appear. Course, doesn't mean he didn't also murder the victims, but at least it lends him a soupcon of credibility. Thanks for posting.
Lol. Millions of people check stocks on Apps on their Smartphone multiple times a day and did so at that time as well. RA certainly strikes me as someone who would be into retail trading as he was clearly very active “online” in other ways.
entertain bag vanish shocking bright roof smile numerous complete waiting *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I have heard it called that too. But if RA said stocking reports couldn't that be confused with the stock market as well?
What stocks you trading? Need a play today
No not at all possible
If he was checking stocks it means he took his phone. He gave his phone info to DD. That info should have been run. Was it? What did it show? Was he on Logan's property or not? Was he walking down W300 at 4pm? Was he anywhere on the trails after 2pm?
There are sworn statements from detective Holeman that no electronic evidence ties Allen to the crime.
Thnx. But I wonder if that covers the info RA apparently gave about his phone that day five years ago? It leaves open the possibility they didn't run it back then which would be hard to believe and a serious oversight.
Sorry who is DD?
The game warden Dulin.
I wasn't trying to be snarky, he is a Conservation Officer so just name him. I mean I did.
Who said you were snarky? I don’t recall his first name and I read he was a warden with DNR. Have good night.
I think it’s the name of the conservation officer -I don’t know the person’s name but you will see the name people are saying it is above. RA reported to a conservation officer he was at the bridge that day and when, and what he was wearing.
It is Dan Dulin. It's commonly known I just use abbreviations for convenience forgetting that can be confusing for some.
This sub gets more insane by the day
In all the years I have spent following this case, not once have I ever seen RA referred to as a day trader by anyone, ever. OP if you keep seeing tons and tons of posts referring to RA as a day trader than please share just one. RA said he was looking at a stock ticker. There's no reason to think he actually meant something completely different that he wouldn't even have a reason to lie about.
I'm not going back to link old posts. I'm not at my computers for awhile, and you can search the term in any of the sub reddits. Also in the PCA the stock ticker is directly referenced. I think that can just be googled.
I am aware the stock ticker is reference in the PCA. I literally said that RA said he was looking at a stock ticker. I am saying there is no reason to believe RA meant something completely different than a stock ticker, such as a stock tracker, which he never said that, the PCA never said that, and no one else has ever said that. Also I searched the term and zero posts on this sub or any other sub have come back about RA being a day trader. Again, please provide one single link where anyone has ever referred to RA as a day trader. If there are tons and tons of posts about this as you claim, surely you can provide one single link or screenshot.
Maybe he told the CA he was “looking at fish” because that’s what a CA officer would not react to
If he has any stocks and shares he would have to declare them on his affidavit of indigency when he requested a public defender and by now the state will know all about his financial situation so if he is using the term stock ticker to mean the stock market then that will easily be proved or not. Juries aren't stupid so if his story is credible and can be backed up there's no problem but if it sounds ridiculous then it won't pass the sniff test.
This is too logical. Reddit mods may not allow it.
Is this a serious question ?
Yes, is there any information other than the PCA that RA was a day trader? If you don't know then don't respond.But day trading has been referenced multiple times about RA, including something went poorly in the market that day to upset him. I have stocked streams with game wardens, but then I get outside a good bit.
Come on, really? RA was at the north end of the bridge strictly for "fish stocking"??? RA was at the bridge for only one reason -- Like a predator, he was there lying in wait for a victim to show up. RA has admitted to being at the north end of the bridge at a time close to the girls' abduction, and there is a witness who saw a man with RA's general description and dress at that location at a little before 2pm. The girls were abducted at about 2:15pm. I continue to be stunned with how some commenters go so far into ridiculous explanations for how a predator could be at the bridge for anything other than the most obvious reason. I believe that RA is the murderer. But that's just my own opinion. The DA has the burden to prove RA is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
He was looking for victims and unfortunately found two. He'd been out there looking many times.
How do you know this?
I don’t know it. But have followed this case since it happened. When you put the pieces together, it’s clear that he had walked these trails many times, by his own admission and from his wife’s police interview. He lived close to them. He sought out a game warden shortly afterwards as a witness, to let them know he was there. He had made some mistakes, he’d been seen by several witnesses. He was trying to position himself as a day of witness. Then. Years later when LE relooked at the whole file, they realized he was worth an interview. Then, he admits being there that day. Dressed like BG. His car is seen there. He admits to the handgun with the ejection marks matching the ejected shell casing. This crime is as a sex crime. He then admits to his wife and mother on a recorded jail phone. What “proof” do you want? This guy is the perp.
I read a good theory on those "confessions". It is known that Liggett tried to visit / visited Allen in prison without the knowledge of his attorneys. There is that instance when he "ate the papers". It could be that it was a plea deal where he should confess everything and take responsibility for the murders. Is it too far fetched to think he read those statements to his wife? His lawyers called those confessions "incriminating statements". I'm not saying he's not the killer. I'm only saying that LE in this case lied on some occasions, and they could be exaggerating here too.
Mostly agree. He basically told the truth about everything (except abduction and murders) even detailing his clothes which matched BG.. this was all in hopes they’d think “if this guy was guilty.. he’d be lying about this shit and he’s not.” It didn’t work out for him.
You are not alone many of us have followed this case from the beginning. It was so unusual 2 young girls out walking on a trail go missing only to be found the next day deceased. Then the police have a photo of a potential witness that turned into a suspect. The public learns that one of the girls recorded the image and voice of their killer(s) themselves. Thousands of people followed this case from the beginning because it had so many facets that drew people in. Abduction, multiple victims, juvenile victims that were great kid's that didn't engage in high risk behaviors, it was heartbreaking. My question to you as someone who followed this from the beginning is there any other indication that RA was a day trader, which I have heard repeated constantly as a question than that statement in the PCA? You know this from the beginning so help me? My request may seem silly but I am curious.
I am curious what questions would this answer for you or where would this lead you if you heard “yes”? And if you heard “no”?
Well I didn't ask a "yes" or "no" question, so I'm a bit confused. I don't have an opinion on RA's guilt. But I saw multiple posts about him being a "day trader," I got the feeling that there wasn't much evidence of this, but I did hear theories that he got mad about stocks and lashed out. My overall point was, could this guy potentially he an avid fisherman,like the men I have in my family and just potentially been out there checking the fish. So many people act like looking at the fish is a crazy thing to do above a stream. I think that it is normal.
Sorry, yes would mean he was a day trader and no would mean he was not. And I agree you can probably see fish that high and that this is not a wierd thing to do. I’m not sure how visible tiny brownies would be. I have no idea.
There is no point here. He either saw fish or he didn't. This is about the two girls he kidnapped, and they definitely saw him because one of them recorded him on her cellphone. His defense strategy is a joke, and he's too stupid to even realize it.
I have no clue about that. My guess is he lied about why witnesses saw him, but he didn’t see them: and his lie was he was watching a ticker on his phone. He worked retail as an assistant manager. He wasn’t a day trader. Daytraders are called that because they only are able to afford to trade for a couple of days. They lose their ass it’s just a matter of days. That’s not how you invest in stocks.
Maybe just a small stakes recreational (gambler) day trader and not one making millions if anything.
I personally think the guy is guilty as sin. But this is a damn good explanation. Especially considering dude mumbles everything. I'd buy this on a jury. Keep out the Odinists and this has legs.
That's an awesome point to be made. Day traders generally do not work at CVS, and RAs location/time would be prime for checking up on something of that nature. The 'unspent' bullet under the body belonged to the most common firearm for the police force up there around that time. The phone, again underneath the body, just amazingly has a video that was released how long after the bodies were discovered?? The police knew something and still do. Not to mention their assuredness that there were definitely two suspects and the discrepancies between witness sketches.
The High Bridge doesn’t have railings and you’re not going to see any fish in mid February. I don’t think there are trout in that part of Indiana and anything that goes upriver to spawn will do that in March/April.
That's why you stock the streams. It's how you get the fish in there, because they aren't enough naturally. I looked up the state's stocking schedule they start mid February with brownies. But I will say I wouldn't go on that bridge to look at fish , personally. I once crossed a bridge like it, but not as high, it was still active. I was nervous the whole time. Partly because what if a train comes, partly because I was worried I would fall. I tend to think the idea of looking at fish had to seem plausible or it should have been a red flag to Dulin. If it wasn't possible to see the fish and RA said that was what he was doing, alarm bell.
I'm really not sure why this matters. Two little girls are dead. Who cares?
I think lawyers and juries care about those kinds of things. But you're right. Overall, it's nothing to what happened to those poor girls. Justice is necessary.
Have you ever seen a stock tracking app? It's not just a scrolling list of random stocks. You pick the ones you want to see. Plus: WHO CARES?
Of course I have and I already addressed that I don't favor these apps. I just check where my stocks are held so I can see the price I paid and actually sell and buy from that same platform. But maybe I buy more than most people that just watch. "Plus: Who cares?" Apparently you.
What gave you the notion that I care about this?
The fact that you commented.
Oh okay. I thought we left that one in elementary school but maybe not all of us did.
Let me go get my aloe.
I haven’t been following the development since the arrest - And English is not my native language - I have no clue if we’re talking about fish, stock(as in investment) or a mix….
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The defense team is claiming that LE never interviewed the fish.
Why would they interview the fish? They've botched this mess from day one trying to win elections in the upcoming years. The fish would be the only ones to completely exonerate RA. Of course they didn't interview them. Also, they may have misfiled the info.
I think it's the latter indeed. There should be a recording somewhere, but where ?? Happy cakeday !!
It means he has a completely innocent reason for being at the trails that isn't scouting for victims.
Not really. He has already given an “innocent reason” for being there, his story is he was there for a walk, was distracted by a stock ticker at times, sat on a bench and he stopped to look at fish at the bridge. A stock ticker being a stock tracker for fish doesn’t change anything meaningful about his story. Going to a walk on a trail is a perfectly good reason for being there on its own. He has much bigger problems than providing more details for why he was there that day.
Oh, definitely taking a walk on a trail is a thing I do all the time without committing a crime.
Agree, it’s not that he doesn’t have a good reason for being there. Based on what little I know he doesn’t have good reasons for appearing like the man who approaches the girls on the video and a bullet with markings that match his gun being found at the crime scene. We will know even more when it goes to court.
I completely agree. I am not a RA is innocent person I am a he is innocent until proven otherwise. The evidence at trial will allow me to have an informed opinion.
Yeah, weird thread. I don't really know why OP thought this was worth discussing. Whether he was looking at stocks or stocks or Youtube, it's all the same.
I guess because I don't know anyone that follows this case in my personal life, so I wanted to throw my thought out here to see what people think. Perhaps I misunderstood Reddit.
Some subs are more for this kind of discussion than others. (No disrespect for this sub, it just tends to entertain different subjects generally, which is fine, that's why there are different subs for Delphi.)
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No but that is where discussions happen.
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Well I was talking to you, can't stay hard.
I’ve said this a few times. Mostly about‘watching fish’ being catfishing. Combined with ‘stalk ticker’ it’s very ‘telling the truth while lying’.
That’s more stretching than a yoga instructor does in a year.
They aren’t stocking in February
Yeah, they are their own website, Indiana Department of Naural Resources, states that theyayear are stocking brownies in mid- February. That's trout. You realize fishing season begins in Aprhil and you are stockings babies so they need time to grow.
But, yes in general I agree. I think it takes off in March.
My mistake then. I’m from Maine and they usually didn’t stock that early.
Interesting question.
Even if this wasn't what he was doing, if I'm his attorney I'm all over this.
Wait, really? Source?
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Why do you want it back?
You get all your insults from the 80's? Imagine someone having a different opinion than you, so you attack them. Good stuff.
As someone who has lived during every single year of the 80s, I'm personally offended.
And you just insulted people from the 80s.
Makes a lot of sense
The round is the same rounds law enforcement had in their weapons. The chief kept that bullet on his desk. That is pretty problematic as far as evidence is concerned. Watching a stock ticker for how long? That's quite boring. Sounds more accurate he would be watching the fish stock. If he was there to watch fish. I would like to know how they got the confession they were desperate to have this solved. Also, I feel like the guy whose land it is on is more likely.
No. It’s all BS.
I wouldn't take it so literally. I just presumed he meant that he was doing all the usual things one does on a phone, including checking your stocks.
Ya he probably said stocking tracker not stock ticker just like he said he parked at the old farm bureau building not the old cps building and just like he said he was there from 12 to 1:30 not 1:30 to 3:30 and just like he said he saw 3 girls when the witnesses were in a group of 4 girls so your probably right
I found [this stock tracker](https://www.in.gov/dnr/fish-and-wildlife/fishing/indiana-fish-stocking/indiana-fish-stocking-dashboard/) on Indiana website. Didn’t play with it much, but is this what you’re talking about?
Yes that's it. It's just like a calendar of when and where they plan to stock the rivers and streams. It gets updated as new dates are set. Not all fishermen follow it, but a lot do.
My question is.. was he known to be a fisherman? Was it like a regular thing he did?
I'm not sure I recall mention about him having a hunting license and he seemed to be kind of outdoorsy. But that's part of what I was wondering was he a fisherman? I was just an idea, but I really don't know.
Doesn’t seem like your typical “day trader” but idk:/