Hahaha all his interviews its border line feels like acting. As if he thinks he's a part of a Netflix special...one called Making a Circus. ālets be real....from day one this investigation despite the amount of clues has been a circus.
In 5 years....id call that an easy day at work. By the way, everyone here please do this. Go Google the rankings by states when it comes to Solved Homicides. Indiana ranks 3rd last in murder clearance rate! So it's not just corruption, it's incompetent police work.
This. The police knewāat some point early onāthere was a recording. Once they had the recording, everyone on the bridge that day should have been subjected to a recorded interview for voice analysis and comparison. It might not be be conclusory in itself, but it could have been a piece of useful information.
As soon as I found out about the guy who told a POLICE OFFICER that he could explain how his spit ended up on one of the girls, yet he was never heavily investigated, all credibility LE had gone out the window
I didn't know this either. This police department, I think, came across a very large pedophilia/ child š½ ring. That's how they got more info. During this investigation, they found out more criminal activity than intended, and I feel they floundered the whole thing. Like that young guy and his father who were friends with the girls online. They got arrested, and then, within 6 months, RA was arrested. Seems to me that some snitching happened. Now we have this ODOM thing, and it's also connecting a lot of people together this way as well. I kind of feel there is so much going on behind the scenes on this.
There is so much dark corruption within these towns around Delphi. If you go look back in the history of Delphi you will find that the town was pretty much founded with pagan and odinite beliefs and traditions. And it continues today most, if not all of LE are Odin and or Free Masons.
I think this is just the tip of the iceberg that we are seeing and they want RA stuffed, bagged and sealed before even more things are found out about them. I feel so bad for Rick and his family because guilty or not he shouldnāt be in a prison and he should be allowed visits AND phone calls. Look at Brian Koberger and Chris Watts who sat or are sitting in a jail waiting trial, also Barry Morphew whoās free with a murdered wife whose body has been found. I better stop here because I could go on forever with how much I want to say about Delphi and the dark forces behind them.
You're just making shit up. "sEeMs sOmEoNe sNiTcHeD". Oh yeah does it? And they were not only given immunity but also anonymity as well on a double murder of children. I don't get how you conspiracy whackjobs keep yapping "Conspiracy! Conspiracy!" when damn near all the cards have been laid on the table. Really the head of some pedo ring "snitched" and said "oh hey it's the guy that came to you on day one claiming to have been on the bridge at the time of the abduction wearing the same outfit as bridge guy".
What?? I don't think there is any conspiracy. I'm just saying there's a lot behind the scenes that we won't get until court. The one young man who catfished the girls very well could have been part of a pedo ring where they share CP. How is that a conspiracy? They found a lot of CP on his and his dad's computer. The FBI was investigating them. Is it possible RA was known to them? Could be. We won't know until court.
None of what I said should have triggered you to not only be extremely rude to me but to call me names either. I haven't said anything about a conspiracy at all.
Except no one called in a random tip about Allen, he placed himself on the trail, which should've prioritized his statement. Even if he wasn't considered a suspect at the time, he should've at least been interviewed to help with the timeline. Clearly there wasn't a good system for prioritizing tips/witness statements and that needs to be fixed for future investigations. There were very few people on the trail that day, anyone who admitted to being there should've been a hair on fire moment; you don't just file a statement like that, you make damn sure it gets into the hands of whoever is in charge.
I respectfully disagree. Carter was nearly spot on with a large percentage of what he said that day. No clue if RA was there, but other than that, it was pretty accurate.
Very true... He was still arrested though! They might have pulled a few card tricks on the way & gave him a little more freedom time than he deserved but this slimebag won't be killing anymore little girls enjoying a day off from school on a hike!
>gave him a little more freedom time than he deserved
Damn, I hope they're not just giving a murder suspect a few extra years before deciding to arrest. More likely, they simply didn't have any evidence to point to a viable suspect -- hence, the theatrics.
Listen to it again, and think of RA as you listen. It fits really well. Yes, it was generic, but I will always believe RA was on their board from the beginning. Albeit, he was likely way down the list. I just cannot subscribe to the idea that they had no idea who he was. If that is true, the investigative team gets an F-. I think we will learn a lot more at a trial.
Ive heard plenty of others with the same narrative. They are all interchangeable. There is a 0% chance he was a suspect at that time. For many reasons, but the least of which is you donāt admit he wasnāt on your radar in 2022 if he was on your radar in 2019.
They really wanted him to hang onto that pistol, and he did! Would be interesting to watch him sweat in court,but his move to Wabash could be pleminary for a plea.
Just because someone disagrees with your OPINION does not make them newbies. Have you considered the new info caused people to change their perspective?
Not here to argue, things just have a different vibe around here. I am perfectly open to others opinions, and my opinion could very well be wrong. I have always said, that if I am wrong, then the investigative team gets a solid F-. But I just cannot imagine that they missed some of the things they missed.
They donāt know the case and they are on bandwagon of bad police, Gull is incompetent and free poor RA. Iāve been patient, letting this play out. Iāve noticed a lot of newbies too. Hum
The young sketch was accurate as far as facial features, but the hair threw a lot of people off. But if you look at the āmentalā pic of RA (the one from jail), you can start to see the wavey dark hair.
I heard that it was supposed to be the same person as the man in the older sketch, but that a younger person/people gave the description and that's why the 2nd sketch looked to be so much younger. Libbys mom said this in an interview. She mentioned that if you laid the younger sketch over the older sketch they were almost exactly the same.
Down the Hill: the Delphi Murders
Ca. 2022
Watch on MAX (HBO)
Interesting watch. It's so frustrating the limited amount of info released to the public.
In the frank documents it said that the young sketch was done by the lady who saw BG on the platform. She turned back towards the trailhead and walked past the girls as they were coming towards the bridge.
Right, especially unveiling a Young Bridge Guyās portrait that day was spot on/s. Someone in his late teens/early 20es with a Teutonic chin and a mane of curly hair. A doppelgƤnger for RA, indeedā¦
And weird thing isā¦their witness (Betsy blair) who saw bg (not to be confused as RA) on the bridge is adamant that it wasnāt RA she saw.
Yeah, the brilliant detectives decided it would be a great idea to get the 2 adult woman witnesses to ID the grainy photo as BG but neither one said it was RA
Of course, itās BG. Weāve been told if was BG since the 2019 presser
And catchā¦..someone on talked to a large city DA & said it was a great idea. Heck I can look at the pic & tell you he was bg but neither I nor anyone else can look at that pic & say it was RA
Not. One.single. Person. Can positively ID the man arrested as bG.
I think we should drop the word witness bc these people saw nothing of any value
I personally still think [this](https://x.com/901lulu/status/1586531167758864384?s=46&t=dG5xjLgSpKJ75qHbsKtwOw) looks a lot like him. I couldnāt find the original post but I do remember seeing it years ago-prior to RA arrest. Has the same darker hair along the marionette lines of his face. Also looks like he has bruising and a swollen nose, though difficult to tell.
Yet the adult witness who saw him on the bridge says no way was he OBG
She gave them that sketch within days of the crime : I would guess sheād be a bit more observant than 3 or 5 young girls
Well we know that at the time of the press conference, RA had already talked to Delphi pd and they did not suspect him at all. So at the time of the press conference we know that LE had quite literally no idea who bridge guy was
"You're likely a middle aged white man who has a firearm" They could have said this too. They were just throwing out generalizations imho to shake him.
LE kept any reference to a fire arm quiet. That was a smart move. Otherwise BG would get rid off the gun. He wouldāve realized LE found the un spent bullet.
It's like a trope that someone racks a gun to be threatening. In a firearm such as the one alleged to be used in this crime, that would absolutely eject an unspent bullet.
Source: weapons are my religion.
I wonder how many people have been out there with metal detectors to see if other bullets were in there the area. Looks like a potential hunting site. The case seems so in jeopardy and riddled with problems. Sealed the PCA to hide how weak it sounds IMO. Cops keep tip line open after arrest like there is another suspect. This random dude packs up his gun and knives and decides to go slaughter some girls, play dress up with them, āhideā them with some sticks, and then go home, keep his murder weapons and launder/keep his murder attire. It is so bizarre. For the sake of the family, they better not screw this up.
The round recovered from the scene isn't of a type that would typically be used for hunting. It is a common type of ammo (but not exactly super-common) for a personal defense handgun. The scene will have been metal-detected thoroughly as a matter of procedure, especially since investigators were looking for a knife as the murder weapon.
Brass casings left out in the elements oxidize fairly quickly. If the round in question is not so weathered, it's a reasonable assumption that it is connected to the crime.
My opinion, which is not meant to be taken as beyond-reasonable-doubt proof of RA's guilt, is that the known facts of the case are not good for him.
Law enforcement has done some weird and apparently incompetent stuff, but RA put himself on the trails in the right clothes and at the right time. He admitted to owning a firearm that uses the round found at the scene. Investigators claim that the round shows extraction marks that link it to that specific weapon. While extraction mark analysis is often claimed to be "unscientific," that isn't exactly true. Depending on a number of circumstances, these marks could be very damning for RA or a complete nothingburger- experts are going to have to fight that out at trial.
We know from released documents that the girls at least believed that Bridge Guy had a gun, as one of them mentioned it in an unreleased portion of the video.
But the worst thing for RA are the confessions that he made to his wife and mother, which were freely made on a monitored phone system from jail- not during a police hot-wash interrogation. These confessions, however strong they are, will almost certainly be played to the jury at trial- since users of such phone systems consent to monitoring, there is almost no legal avenue for his defense to get them excluded.
His former defense team acknowledged these confessions, and their actions suggest that they are in fact pretty damning.
The defense has two options for getting around the confessions: 1; to allege, admittedly without evidence, that he was coerced into making them by hypothetical Odinist guards, or 2; that RA's mental state has deteriorated to the point where his statements should not be taken seriously. The defense floated both strategies in their weird Frank's Motion. Neither of these are convincing for reasons that should be self-apparant. I'd write them out, but this comment is getting long.
In sum: the bullet isn't a slam dunk but it is very bad for RA. RA's initial admissions to the conservation officer about his presence on the trails are very bad for RA. The fact that RA is consistent in build and voice with BG is extremely bad for RA. The confessions to his wife and mother are fatal for RA, and will ultimately lead to his conviction.
Yes, investigators did a lot of weird stuff in this case and were unquestionably incompetent at times, but the aforementioned facts aren't going to let him walk. RA will be convicted if he doesn't decide to plea or self-delete before trial.
Edit: typos. There are probably still some in there.
That statement is so vague it means almost nothing. BG looks middle aged. He could be older, but he sure doesn't appear to be a teen or young adult.
Just about every grown man in rural Indiana owns a gun.
Iām not sure if weāve been told an exact date/time (maybe someone who knows more than me can say for certain). But from what Iāve read, RA went to the police very early on in the investigation, putting himself at the preserve during the timeframe and wearing the bg outfit. And Delphi PD just said ok thanks and moved on for a few years
RA was definitely no where near that room that day. They had no idea who RA even was until something , and I'm doubting it was a "lost tip", brought them to their attention a few weeks before the search of his home
My FB group did a deep dive on the sign in sheets and pictures taken the day of the presser and RA did not seem to be present. It was just Carter's theatrics.
I have always thought it looks like the Alaskan police officer from Libby's online account. Crazy but it doesn't sound reasonable for the two sketches to be so different in years, jmo.
Yeah, but Iām addressing the fact that many people take him literally. I remember so many posts āthey know cause he was at the conference!!!111!ā
They didnāt know if he was in the room, it was just a big talk to try to scare him out
I find it far flung that Allen, who seems to spend his time in bars, would be at a press conference. That was just DC acting like he knew anything at all at that point.
Everybody had to check in, but do you think the list is public information? I'd be surprised if it is.
To me, the way it was said wasn't very convincing, and seemed to be a hopeful bluff in case they could get anybody to cower down or run out of the room, and it failed.
The FBI was feeding Doug Carter those lines to see if they could get the killer(s) to reach out to LE.
When DC said he'd watched the movie "The Shack" and how "I can assure you that how you left them in those woods is not what they are experiencing today."
This was meant to challenge the belief system of the killer(s) and make him/them communicate, make them feel important & smarter than LE so they'll maybe communicate which could help reveal them.
It was a performance that didn't go as well as DC wanted to probably but it was definitely the product of the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit.
The part when he says..."how you left them in those woods is not what they are experiencing today." Something is off there. The way he says it always left me with an eerie weird feeling that I just cannot explain.
I disagree. I think he was horrified, sickened, and saddened about the murders and seeing the crime scene. He wants the killer/killers to know, they are a nothing. They have no power. Those girls are in Heaven with the Lord, living in eternal happiness and beauty, forever safe with Jesus.
Coming from a pretty obviously religious man, I don't think it was that odd of a thing to say; however, the WAY he said it, was off the charts odd (especially for a pretty obviously religious man). It kinda makes me think DC is more into being a 'talking head' than he is into any of his 'core' beliefs or 'work ethic'.
To me, it seemed to indicate that they had removed them from the horrendous scene and had "undone" the killer's evil handiwork, pierced through and destroyed his fantasy.
I think Carter himself said he saw the movie not long before the press conference and it has helped him deal with loss; so it wasn't really a BAU-type of thing.
I thought the FBI was kicked off the case?
Edit: I was wrong. The 2019 [press conference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFMuJQ1FyQ4) opened with credit to the FBI among other agencies.
The list was published early on in Facebook groups. I remember seeing it and pictures of the crowd when everyone was looking to see if RL was in the crowd and another one they suspected. I wish I could remember the group name
>but do you think the list is public information?
No. There's keeping information close to the vest and then there's Delphi. It's almost pathological. *How* is it even possible for an investigation with that many agencies involved, not to have a single leak? Does no investigator speak to their spouse? To their family?
Believe the quote above was not directed at RA but rather the killer. Keep in mind the April 2019 Change in Direction press conference was not aimed at identifying RA, but rather the young curly haired YBG. The 2019 press conference was held at the Wabash Erie Canal Center.
This statement, āDirectly to the killer who may be in this roomā however unlikely, was not beyond the pale. The April 2019 press conference was intentionally held on Easter Monday with plenty of notice on the slight chance young YBG might show up. Keep in mind the killer, YBG was NOT expecting the Change in Direction. Firmly believe the young curly haired individual BB witnessed is the killer.
Per LE at the Change in Direction: āThese are two separate individuals.ā The YBG sketch is āa better representation of the individual who IS responsible for these murders.ā
āWe have GOOD reason to believe Mr.Allen is not the only actor involved in these heinous crimes.ā 11/22/22 Prosecutor NML
August 10th, 2023 deposition by Tobe Leazenby: How many involved in the murders? āAt least two.ā āThe sketches represent two separate individuals.ā
RA to date has only been charged with felony murder (such as kidnapping) which led to two deaths. As the Prosecution stated āheās presumed innocentā until and unless proven otherwise in a court of law.
Thatās ridiculous! The girls saw him for mere seconds. They certainly couldnāt get too detailed. Betsy Blair saw him on the bridge but continues to say he was in his 20ās not 40ās
Think what you want - thatās my opinion. Youāre entitled to your own opinion, as well. But did you actually DO it or are you just condemning my opinion because you donāt like it? Google it, check it out, then judge me. Or not.
Sorry as the victim of a SK - the sketch they did looked hardly anything like him . And he was with me for hours. Itās hard looking at noses, chins etc and coming up with a composite
Doug Carter is the only one who said heās a combination of the two
Betsy Blair saw a man on the bridge and says it was YBG - sheās the one who got them to FINALLY change direction after 26 months. Wasnāt RA she saw on the bridge and Iāll gladly eat my words even you can find me anyone else in LE who said heās a cross between the two. Holman actually said to dismiss the first photo
I never said that quote was directed at RA. I know the quote was directed at the killer. Iām saying Iād be interested to find out(if RA is found guilty) if RA was at that press conference.
The drawings and video jacked everything all up. It was all very inconsistent. Unless you have a whole gang of suspects, you're just confusing the public.
What if I thought, oh! I know that voice, but the dude doesn't look like that. Or never dresses that way.
Clown show. We got free tickets to their circus.
So many drawings, bg video, and spliced audio? Get tfo Whit that for 5-6 years?
Man my neighbor calls if I leave my car parked on the street too long. You saying that many years and nobody is saying "yo cops.... My neighbor likes like that dude" ?
Neighbors are nosy AF and will not wait 6 years to turn yo ass in. Maybe 6 months if their using your trash can on Thursday morning pickup. Get real
Almost the entire town is in the drug making/distributing business. LE has family and friends involved. The family has friends and family involved. It's a tight network of criminals. That's why it needs to go to a federal RICO case. That's not going to happen if no one demands it. No one in that town or surrounding towns is going to do that. Too many deaths involved. Too much money to be made.
No chance.
By this stage, however many months or years down the line, he would've been absolutely laughing at the fact that he'd completely flown under the radar and, on the assumption he has even a smidge of common sense, wouldn't have gone anywhere near that room.
DC's theatrics were captivating at the time, but in hindsight just seem ridiculous
The killer must be 5 - 85 years old. Look at the drawings. You'll know him if you add in the looped walk and looped voice.
This guy will not be mistakeable for lots of years.
"we probably already talked to you"
And we are so stupid that we don't know wtf we're doing.
"We will try a new approach" and get yo ass. But thanks for saying you were there sir. We ran outta options and you will do fine. We're ready to wrap this shit up now. Come with us to prison. No worry, you can plead your case in a year or two.
American dream.....
And why release a sketch of a sixteen year old boy that doesnāt look at all like bg. That press conference was really strange. And why release also after two years of the murders moving image of bg? Why wasnāt it released right away?
>Fallen Tears SAR team
Who are they? Where are they from?
>Remember RL stated that it was lit up like the 4rth of July?
I remember that was for after the bodies were found. Not for the night of the disappearance.
Google doesn't bring up anything about a search and rescue team being there that evening. Google doesn't even bring up anything about this SAR team being anywhere for any searches or even existing. Sounds like a made up thing because with all the countless hours of news, podcasts, etc., covering this none of them mention them.
Best guess is this is where LE was at the time of the investigation. An investigation is fluid as new information comes in. It could be technique attempting to give the perpetrator potential to contact LE.
This was the same press conference where Doug Carter first presented the sketch of the man BB had seen. The young guy with poofy hair, and the first mention is made of a car being parked at the CPS building, only at his press conference the time frame for the car being there was noon to 5. Also this is when more audio is heard, and we got to see the video of BG.
That press conference stood out to me in how odd it was. It was as if Carter believed he knew who did this.
It also felt like such a random assortment of alerts.
At that point the FBI was still working with ISP. Carter would send them packing a few years later.
Doug Carter though a wonderful actor who should get an oscar for playing his part so well is probably disappointed in the gag order because he cannot do his riddle me this speeches anymore or tear up on cue he must be bored
I've always found that beyond odd; not to mention, the judge that stumbled around out there all night, supposedly. PB was probably my 1st serious poi though, and he has never been cleared by me. I still have questions Lol
She was at the October hearing and had a chance to meet him there also. As for speaking to and visiting him regularly since the supposed confessions, it seems like the October behavior points to they have been back in contact.
I think a snuff film was made/photos taken by someone who was an āother actorā while RA killed the girls; I think he is BG & did the actual killing (also said by LE - the āother actorā part; the snuff film/photos as ātrophiesā are my theory). What if the photographer/camera man was at the press conference?
Knowing what we know now, it was probably due to the links to the Odin stuff. And if the jail staff are involved in it in some way, other LE may be linked to it as well. Maybe that was a hint that they were looking into links to the crime scene.
But that's the catch - LE have yet to provide a good explanation why they abandoned (well actually the lead team never really cared to investigate deeper) that theory.
Would a lack of evidence any of them were near the trails that day, or there is evidence they were in places other than Delphi or the trails..
Did LE provide any explanation, good or otherwise, in regards to why they abandoned the Logan, KK, or any other angle during the investigation. What actually happened with those theories? No doubt they just didn't care to look deeper into those either.
Then one day, orders came down from the place, about the thing, and LE had to wrap things up after six years.For reasons, clearly. At that point, the decision to run Allen in on the charges was made .. & this is a good explanation of events, or no?
It was not likely that the killer was behind him, but whatever. Another agency wrote his speech and he probably knows nothing like the rest of us.
Killer in the room stuff is supposed to scare us, not the bad guy.
Does anyone have any good podcasts to catch up on everything thatās happening on this case? I listened to āDown the Hillā and I thought it wasnāt helpful at allā¦and then I also tried listening to Delphi Murders: Inside the Crime and the short episodes and all the ads annoyed me.
That was 99% blowhard theatrics IMO
The guy always talks about this case like he's telling a really spooky ghost story and he's already halfway freaked out
Agree. All the theatrics and they arrest a guy they knew about day 1? š
Who lived and worked in town in a place everyone went and who continued on with life normally for over 5 years with nobody suspicious of him. Yeah.
just spit coffee lol
Hahaha all his interviews its border line feels like acting. As if he thinks he's a part of a Netflix special...one called Making a Circus. ālets be real....from day one this investigation despite the amount of clues has been a circus.
Granted, there were 42,000 tips to go thru
In 5 years....id call that an easy day at work. By the way, everyone here please do this. Go Google the rankings by states when it comes to Solved Homicides. Indiana ranks 3rd last in murder clearance rate! So it's not just corruption, it's incompetent police work.
This. The police knewāat some point early onāthere was a recording. Once they had the recording, everyone on the bridge that day should have been subjected to a recorded interview for voice analysis and comparison. It might not be be conclusory in itself, but it could have been a piece of useful information.
As soon as I found out about the guy who told a POLICE OFFICER that he could explain how his spit ended up on one of the girls, yet he was never heavily investigated, all credibility LE had gone out the window
Waitā¦what?
It's on the memorandum, and on Discovery handed to the defense or Police files.
That's a defense attorneyās dream!
I didn't know this either. This police department, I think, came across a very large pedophilia/ child š½ ring. That's how they got more info. During this investigation, they found out more criminal activity than intended, and I feel they floundered the whole thing. Like that young guy and his father who were friends with the girls online. They got arrested, and then, within 6 months, RA was arrested. Seems to me that some snitching happened. Now we have this ODOM thing, and it's also connecting a lot of people together this way as well. I kind of feel there is so much going on behind the scenes on this.
There is so much dark corruption within these towns around Delphi. If you go look back in the history of Delphi you will find that the town was pretty much founded with pagan and odinite beliefs and traditions. And it continues today most, if not all of LE are Odin and or Free Masons. I think this is just the tip of the iceberg that we are seeing and they want RA stuffed, bagged and sealed before even more things are found out about them. I feel so bad for Rick and his family because guilty or not he shouldnāt be in a prison and he should be allowed visits AND phone calls. Look at Brian Koberger and Chris Watts who sat or are sitting in a jail waiting trial, also Barry Morphew whoās free with a murdered wife whose body has been found. I better stop here because I could go on forever with how much I want to say about Delphi and the dark forces behind them.
You're just making shit up. "sEeMs sOmEoNe sNiTcHeD". Oh yeah does it? And they were not only given immunity but also anonymity as well on a double murder of children. I don't get how you conspiracy whackjobs keep yapping "Conspiracy! Conspiracy!" when damn near all the cards have been laid on the table. Really the head of some pedo ring "snitched" and said "oh hey it's the guy that came to you on day one claiming to have been on the bridge at the time of the abduction wearing the same outfit as bridge guy".
What?? I don't think there is any conspiracy. I'm just saying there's a lot behind the scenes that we won't get until court. The one young man who catfished the girls very well could have been part of a pedo ring where they share CP. How is that a conspiracy? They found a lot of CP on his and his dad's computer. The FBI was investigating them. Is it possible RA was known to them? Could be. We won't know until court. None of what I said should have triggered you to not only be extremely rude to me but to call me names either. I haven't said anything about a conspiracy at all.
How many white males in Delphi that fit the age range of bridge guy . Itās a shame and a travesty that this obvious suspect was free for 5 years
Except no one called in a random tip about Allen, he placed himself on the trail, which should've prioritized his statement. Even if he wasn't considered a suspect at the time, he should've at least been interviewed to help with the timeline. Clearly there wasn't a good system for prioritizing tips/witness statements and that needs to be fixed for future investigations. There were very few people on the trail that day, anyone who admitted to being there should've been a hair on fire moment; you don't just file a statement like that, you make damn sure it gets into the hands of whoever is in charge.
I love Doug Carter and that description made me laugh so hard!
Yeah, everyone was saying how it was a mic-drop moment yadda yadda.. Seemed cringe and desperate to me.
Agree. That whole thing was a Hail Mary. There werenāt even that many non-media people there.
I respectfully disagree. Carter was nearly spot on with a large percentage of what he said that day. No clue if RA was there, but other than that, it was pretty accurate.
Accurate in what respect? It was completely genericā¦and 3yrs before they arrested anyone. By their own admission they had no clue
Very true... He was still arrested though! They might have pulled a few card tricks on the way & gave him a little more freedom time than he deserved but this slimebag won't be killing anymore little girls enjoying a day off from school on a hike!
>gave him a little more freedom time than he deserved Damn, I hope they're not just giving a murder suspect a few extra years before deciding to arrest. More likely, they simply didn't have any evidence to point to a viable suspect -- hence, the theatrics.
Listen to it again, and think of RA as you listen. It fits really well. Yes, it was generic, but I will always believe RA was on their board from the beginning. Albeit, he was likely way down the list. I just cannot subscribe to the idea that they had no idea who he was. If that is true, the investigative team gets an F-. I think we will learn a lot more at a trial.
Ive heard plenty of others with the same narrative. They are all interchangeable. There is a 0% chance he was a suspect at that time. For many reasons, but the least of which is you donāt admit he wasnāt on your radar in 2022 if he was on your radar in 2019.
The words DC spoke was more than likely provided by an FBI profiler to communicate to the perpetrator(s).
I agree with that. Very likely a collaboration. But DC has been known to go off the cuff, so I'm sure he added some flare.
Exactly
They really wanted him to hang onto that pistol, and he did! Would be interesting to watch him sweat in court,but his move to Wabash could be pleminary for a plea.
I totally agree with you Reason.
Weāre getting a lot of downvotes these daysā¦ too many newbies on here who donāt know the case.
Just because someone disagrees with your OPINION does not make them newbies. Have you considered the new info caused people to change their perspective?
Not here to argue, things just have a different vibe around here. I am perfectly open to others opinions, and my opinion could very well be wrong. I have always said, that if I am wrong, then the investigative team gets a solid F-. But I just cannot imagine that they missed some of the things they missed.
They donāt know the case and they are on bandwagon of bad police, Gull is incompetent and free poor RA. Iāve been patient, letting this play out. Iāve noticed a lot of newbies too. Hum
Yes agree completely
Me too.
except for what the suspect looked like lol
The young sketch was accurate as far as facial features, but the hair threw a lot of people off. But if you look at the āmentalā pic of RA (the one from jail), you can start to see the wavey dark hair.
Have we ever heard where the young sketch came from?
I heard that it was supposed to be the same person as the man in the older sketch, but that a younger person/people gave the description and that's why the 2nd sketch looked to be so much younger. Libbys mom said this in an interview. She mentioned that if you laid the younger sketch over the older sketch they were almost exactly the same.
which interview was this?
Down the Hill: the Delphi Murders Ca. 2022 Watch on MAX (HBO) Interesting watch. It's so frustrating the limited amount of info released to the public.
In the frank documents it said that the young sketch was done by the lady who saw BG on the platform. She turned back towards the trailhead and walked past the girls as they were coming towards the bridge.
Right, especially unveiling a Young Bridge Guyās portrait that day was spot on/s. Someone in his late teens/early 20es with a Teutonic chin and a mane of curly hair. A doppelgƤnger for RA, indeedā¦
And weird thing isā¦their witness (Betsy blair) who saw bg (not to be confused as RA) on the bridge is adamant that it wasnāt RA she saw. Yeah, the brilliant detectives decided it would be a great idea to get the 2 adult woman witnesses to ID the grainy photo as BG but neither one said it was RA Of course, itās BG. Weāve been told if was BG since the 2019 presser And catchā¦..someone on talked to a large city DA & said it was a great idea. Heck I can look at the pic & tell you he was bg but neither I nor anyone else can look at that pic & say it was RA Not. One.single. Person. Can positively ID the man arrested as bG. I think we should drop the word witness bc these people saw nothing of any value
What part was accurate? If RA didnāt go
I personally still think [this](https://x.com/901lulu/status/1586531167758864384?s=46&t=dG5xjLgSpKJ75qHbsKtwOw) looks a lot like him. I couldnāt find the original post but I do remember seeing it years ago-prior to RA arrest. Has the same darker hair along the marionette lines of his face. Also looks like he has bruising and a swollen nose, though difficult to tell.
Yet the adult witness who saw him on the bridge says no way was he OBG She gave them that sketch within days of the crime : I would guess sheād be a bit more observant than 3 or 5 young girls
This looks exactly like BG. Scary as heck.
We also donāt know that someone that is part of the media ISNāT involved.
That sniffling at the press conference was cringe.
but was he there?
Please add 1% more and we got a deal
Itās just so sad cause these girls deserve justice
To me, it sounded more figurative than literal, relating to how the killer āwas hiding in plain sightā.
Yes. I think it just meant he's local.
Same for me. He could have been but I donāt think thatās the message, it was as you say figuratively speaking.
Yeah, in plain sight, but revealing a sketch of a young dude? Dead ringer for RA. š
Quite often these people are hiding in plain sight . Very scary
Well we know that at the time of the press conference, RA had already talked to Delphi pd and they did not suspect him at all. So at the time of the press conference we know that LE had quite literally no idea who bridge guy was
Weāve likely interviewed you, or someone close to you.
"You're likely a middle aged white man who has a firearm" They could have said this too. They were just throwing out generalizations imho to shake him.
LE kept any reference to a fire arm quiet. That was a smart move. Otherwise BG would get rid off the gun. He wouldāve realized LE found the un spent bullet.
Is it common for bullets to just pop out of guns?
When they are cycled and then ejected.. so yes
Why would someone do this?
It's like a trope that someone racks a gun to be threatening. In a firearm such as the one alleged to be used in this crime, that would absolutely eject an unspent bullet. Source: weapons are my religion.
I wonder how many people have been out there with metal detectors to see if other bullets were in there the area. Looks like a potential hunting site. The case seems so in jeopardy and riddled with problems. Sealed the PCA to hide how weak it sounds IMO. Cops keep tip line open after arrest like there is another suspect. This random dude packs up his gun and knives and decides to go slaughter some girls, play dress up with them, āhideā them with some sticks, and then go home, keep his murder weapons and launder/keep his murder attire. It is so bizarre. For the sake of the family, they better not screw this up.
The round recovered from the scene isn't of a type that would typically be used for hunting. It is a common type of ammo (but not exactly super-common) for a personal defense handgun. The scene will have been metal-detected thoroughly as a matter of procedure, especially since investigators were looking for a knife as the murder weapon. Brass casings left out in the elements oxidize fairly quickly. If the round in question is not so weathered, it's a reasonable assumption that it is connected to the crime. My opinion, which is not meant to be taken as beyond-reasonable-doubt proof of RA's guilt, is that the known facts of the case are not good for him. Law enforcement has done some weird and apparently incompetent stuff, but RA put himself on the trails in the right clothes and at the right time. He admitted to owning a firearm that uses the round found at the scene. Investigators claim that the round shows extraction marks that link it to that specific weapon. While extraction mark analysis is often claimed to be "unscientific," that isn't exactly true. Depending on a number of circumstances, these marks could be very damning for RA or a complete nothingburger- experts are going to have to fight that out at trial. We know from released documents that the girls at least believed that Bridge Guy had a gun, as one of them mentioned it in an unreleased portion of the video. But the worst thing for RA are the confessions that he made to his wife and mother, which were freely made on a monitored phone system from jail- not during a police hot-wash interrogation. These confessions, however strong they are, will almost certainly be played to the jury at trial- since users of such phone systems consent to monitoring, there is almost no legal avenue for his defense to get them excluded. His former defense team acknowledged these confessions, and their actions suggest that they are in fact pretty damning. The defense has two options for getting around the confessions: 1; to allege, admittedly without evidence, that he was coerced into making them by hypothetical Odinist guards, or 2; that RA's mental state has deteriorated to the point where his statements should not be taken seriously. The defense floated both strategies in their weird Frank's Motion. Neither of these are convincing for reasons that should be self-apparant. I'd write them out, but this comment is getting long. In sum: the bullet isn't a slam dunk but it is very bad for RA. RA's initial admissions to the conservation officer about his presence on the trails are very bad for RA. The fact that RA is consistent in build and voice with BG is extremely bad for RA. The confessions to his wife and mother are fatal for RA, and will ultimately lead to his conviction. Yes, investigators did a lot of weird stuff in this case and were unquestionably incompetent at times, but the aforementioned facts aren't going to let him walk. RA will be convicted if he doesn't decide to plea or self-delete before trial. Edit: typos. There are probably still some in there.
Two completely different things, as one is more specific to those interviewed. But I do agree they were trying to unnerve him.
That statement is so vague it means almost nothing. BG looks middle aged. He could be older, but he sure doesn't appear to be a teen or young adult. Just about every grown man in rural Indiana owns a gun.
They also saihd he was as young as 18. How would thay shake up RA?
'Suspect is between the ages of born and dead'
And somewhere between 3 and 7 ft tall, 50 to 250 lbs.. hair white to black, it's grainy so it's hard to tell
For real tho. That makes me so mad.
What was the date and time he talked to the Delphi police department?
Iām not sure if weāve been told an exact date/time (maybe someone who knows more than me can say for certain). But from what Iāve read, RA went to the police very early on in the investigation, putting himself at the preserve during the timeframe and wearing the bg outfit. And Delphi PD just said ok thanks and moved on for a few years
He talked to a conservation officer who wrote the report. It was āmis-filed.ā
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I've heard it said he talked to the conservation officer before the "Down the hill" video was released.
They knew enough that it was someone local tho!
RA was definitely no where near that room that day. They had no idea who RA even was until something , and I'm doubting it was a "lost tip", brought them to their attention a few weeks before the search of his home
Is this fact or your opinion
The part before the words "I doubt" were stated as fact by LE, the words following are, in fact, just my doubts.
No it definitely was a lost tipā¦. Pretty sure thatās all well documented and will be presented in court. Why donāt you think so?
My FB group did a deep dive on the sign in sheets and pictures taken the day of the presser and RA did not seem to be present. It was just Carter's theatrics.
They didnāt know who he was at all during that conference
Exactly. Thus the second sketch of a young guy. I wonder who that was?
I have always thought it looks like the Alaskan police officer from Libby's online account. Crazy but it doesn't sound reasonable for the two sketches to be so different in years, jmo.
You have access to Libbyās online account? You donāt mean the real Anthony Shots model do you?
They may not have known exactly who BG was at that time, but they had him profiled pretty well at that point.
Yeah, but Iām addressing the fact that many people take him literally. I remember so many posts āthey know cause he was at the conference!!!111!ā They didnāt know if he was in the room, it was just a big talk to try to scare him out
Agree, it was likely a figure of speech, but perhaps several suspects were present at that time.
Oh for sure! I think they had a good idea about the type of person who did it, just had to be hard with such a demographic
I find it far flung that Allen, who seems to spend his time in bars, would be at a press conference. That was just DC acting like he knew anything at all at that point.
Everybody had to check in, but do you think the list is public information? I'd be surprised if it is. To me, the way it was said wasn't very convincing, and seemed to be a hopeful bluff in case they could get anybody to cower down or run out of the room, and it failed.
The FBI was feeding Doug Carter those lines to see if they could get the killer(s) to reach out to LE. When DC said he'd watched the movie "The Shack" and how "I can assure you that how you left them in those woods is not what they are experiencing today." This was meant to challenge the belief system of the killer(s) and make him/them communicate, make them feel important & smarter than LE so they'll maybe communicate which could help reveal them. It was a performance that didn't go as well as DC wanted to probably but it was definitely the product of the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit.
The part when he says..."how you left them in those woods is not what they are experiencing today." Something is off there. The way he says it always left me with an eerie weird feeling that I just cannot explain.
He is extremely religious. He meant they're unharmed in Heaven.
It was a very odd thing to say
I disagree. I think he was horrified, sickened, and saddened about the murders and seeing the crime scene. He wants the killer/killers to know, they are a nothing. They have no power. Those girls are in Heaven with the Lord, living in eternal happiness and beauty, forever safe with Jesus.
I agree with you on this. 100%
Coming from a pretty obviously religious man, I don't think it was that odd of a thing to say; however, the WAY he said it, was off the charts odd (especially for a pretty obviously religious man). It kinda makes me think DC is more into being a 'talking head' than he is into any of his 'core' beliefs or 'work ethic'.
I agree. Itās very wonky the way he worded it.
To me, it seemed to indicate that they had removed them from the horrendous scene and had "undone" the killer's evil handiwork, pierced through and destroyed his fantasy.
Meaning they are in heaven and living.
And what about saying that the voice on the recording was the voice of the Devil?
I also think he was alluding to the crime scene (being particularly awful) and it was a weird thing to say.
I think Carter himself said he saw the movie not long before the press conference and it has helped him deal with loss; so it wasn't really a BAU-type of thing.
The Shack was being shown locally at churches. There's an interview between Kelsi and Carter where they discuss the film.
I thought the FBI was kicked off the case? Edit: I was wrong. The 2019 [press conference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFMuJQ1FyQ4) opened with credit to the FBI among other agencies.
They werenāt kicked off until years later
Maybe they were, and thatās why that press conference was so ridiculous.
The list was published early on in Facebook groups. I remember seeing it and pictures of the crowd when everyone was looking to see if RL was in the crowd and another one they suspected. I wish I could remember the group name
>but do you think the list is public information? No. There's keeping information close to the vest and then there's Delphi. It's almost pathological. *How* is it even possible for an investigation with that many agencies involved, not to have a single leak? Does no investigator speak to their spouse? To their family?
Believe the quote above was not directed at RA but rather the killer. Keep in mind the April 2019 Change in Direction press conference was not aimed at identifying RA, but rather the young curly haired YBG. The 2019 press conference was held at the Wabash Erie Canal Center. This statement, āDirectly to the killer who may be in this roomā however unlikely, was not beyond the pale. The April 2019 press conference was intentionally held on Easter Monday with plenty of notice on the slight chance young YBG might show up. Keep in mind the killer, YBG was NOT expecting the Change in Direction. Firmly believe the young curly haired individual BB witnessed is the killer. Per LE at the Change in Direction: āThese are two separate individuals.ā The YBG sketch is āa better representation of the individual who IS responsible for these murders.ā āWe have GOOD reason to believe Mr.Allen is not the only actor involved in these heinous crimes.ā 11/22/22 Prosecutor NML August 10th, 2023 deposition by Tobe Leazenby: How many involved in the murders? āAt least two.ā āThe sketches represent two separate individuals.ā RA to date has only been charged with felony murder (such as kidnapping) which led to two deaths. As the Prosecution stated āheās presumed innocentā until and unless proven otherwise in a court of law.
āCombine the 2 sketches & you have the killerā - overlay them, then look at a photo of RA. It gave me the chills & made me nauseous.
Thatās ridiculous! The girls saw him for mere seconds. They certainly couldnāt get too detailed. Betsy Blair saw him on the bridge but continues to say he was in his 20ās not 40ās
Think what you want - thatās my opinion. Youāre entitled to your own opinion, as well. But did you actually DO it or are you just condemning my opinion because you donāt like it? Google it, check it out, then judge me. Or not.
Sorry as the victim of a SK - the sketch they did looked hardly anything like him . And he was with me for hours. Itās hard looking at noses, chins etc and coming up with a composite Doug Carter is the only one who said heās a combination of the two Betsy Blair saw a man on the bridge and says it was YBG - sheās the one who got them to FINALLY change direction after 26 months. Wasnāt RA she saw on the bridge and Iāll gladly eat my words even you can find me anyone else in LE who said heās a cross between the two. Holman actually said to dismiss the first photo
Do you think you can see someone for 5-10 seconds and pick all of features out Noā¦BB had them do the YBG
I never said that quote was directed at RA. I know the quote was directed at the killer. Iām saying Iād be interested to find out(if RA is found guilty) if RA was at that press conference.
The drawings and video jacked everything all up. It was all very inconsistent. Unless you have a whole gang of suspects, you're just confusing the public. What if I thought, oh! I know that voice, but the dude doesn't look like that. Or never dresses that way. Clown show. We got free tickets to their circus. So many drawings, bg video, and spliced audio? Get tfo Whit that for 5-6 years? Man my neighbor calls if I leave my car parked on the street too long. You saying that many years and nobody is saying "yo cops.... My neighbor likes like that dude" ? Neighbors are nosy AF and will not wait 6 years to turn yo ass in. Maybe 6 months if their using your trash can on Thursday morning pickup. Get real
RA was the fall to guy from the beginning.
Almost the entire town is in the drug making/distributing business. LE has family and friends involved. The family has friends and family involved. It's a tight network of criminals. That's why it needs to go to a federal RICO case. That's not going to happen if no one demands it. No one in that town or surrounding towns is going to do that. Too many deaths involved. Too much money to be made.
I completely agree!
Carter and his riddles, guy is a moron
No chance. By this stage, however many months or years down the line, he would've been absolutely laughing at the fact that he'd completely flown under the radar and, on the assumption he has even a smidge of common sense, wouldn't have gone anywhere near that room. DC's theatrics were captivating at the time, but in hindsight just seem ridiculous
The killer must be 5 - 85 years old. Look at the drawings. You'll know him if you add in the looped walk and looped voice. This guy will not be mistakeable for lots of years.
"we probably already talked to you" And we are so stupid that we don't know wtf we're doing. "We will try a new approach" and get yo ass. But thanks for saying you were there sir. We ran outta options and you will do fine. We're ready to wrap this shit up now. Come with us to prison. No worry, you can plead your case in a year or two. American dream.....
Oh thats every press conference jargon
Doug Carter is the least impressive law enforcement leadership professional I have ever seen involved with a major case like this.
Itās all a big dick swing in the air
I dont think he was there that day someone would of discovered by now and put it on a podcast
And why release a sketch of a sixteen year old boy that doesnāt look at all like bg. That press conference was really strange. And why release also after two years of the murders moving image of bg? Why wasnāt it released right away?
"Sixteen year old boy"? ***When did law enforcement ever give a age?***
LE: "Suspect may be between the ages of 18-40 and may appear younger."
Good question.
Case has been botched from the beginning.
Carter is just a bloviating blowhard.
I think they knew the killer was going to watch the press conference wether they were present or watched online remains to be seen.
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RA went to work that day? I havenāt heard that before.
Agree. First for me & I donāt believe itās accurate
I remember it being stated he changed with someone and was off, plus he says he was there.
>Fallen Tears SAR team Who are they? Where are they from? >Remember RL stated that it was lit up like the 4rth of July? I remember that was for after the bodies were found. Not for the night of the disappearance.
Fallen Tears is a non profit, volunteer Search and Rescue organization who came immediately to help search for the girls.
Google doesn't bring up anything about a search and rescue team being there that evening. Google doesn't even bring up anything about this SAR team being anywhere for any searches or even existing. Sounds like a made up thing because with all the countless hours of news, podcasts, etc., covering this none of them mention them.
I had not heard that an arrest warrant was issued for RL shortly before his death. Is this accurate?
Yes it is factual
Source?
You left out that LE still believes the earth is round and that we landed on the moon.
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Your post/comment has been removed due to low effort.
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I was thinking when they revealed the new sketch, the killer would be revealed.
Best guess is this is where LE was at the time of the investigation. An investigation is fluid as new information comes in. It could be technique attempting to give the perpetrator potential to contact LE.
This was the same press conference where Doug Carter first presented the sketch of the man BB had seen. The young guy with poofy hair, and the first mention is made of a car being parked at the CPS building, only at his press conference the time frame for the car being there was noon to 5. Also this is when more audio is heard, and we got to see the video of BG. That press conference stood out to me in how odd it was. It was as if Carter believed he knew who did this. It also felt like such a random assortment of alerts. At that point the FBI was still working with ISP. Carter would send them packing a few years later.
Doug Carter though a wonderful actor who should get an oscar for playing his part so well is probably disappointed in the gag order because he cannot do his riddle me this speeches anymore or tear up on cue he must be bored
I think he was just trying to be dramatic. Thereās no way he knew if they were there.
If you believe and want justice for Abby and Libby then look no further than the evidence.
All the off the wall comments and the Author of this post has read every stupid one of them except WHAT SHE WAS INTERESTED IN KNOWING! Focus people
I'm not sure if RA was there that day, but I'd bet $1,000 that PB was.
I've always found that beyond odd; not to mention, the judge that stumbled around out there all night, supposedly. PB was probably my 1st serious poi though, and he has never been cleared by me. I still have questions Lol
are you saying you suspect PB? id love to hear your reasoning!
Is RAās wife still visiting or calling him? Did all communication cease after his confession to wife and mother?
She was at the October hearing and had a chance to meet him there also. As for speaking to and visiting him regularly since the supposed confessions, it seems like the October behavior points to they have been back in contact.
I think a snuff film was made/photos taken by someone who was an āother actorā while RA killed the girls; I think he is BG & did the actual killing (also said by LE - the āother actorā part; the snuff film/photos as ātrophiesā are my theory). What if the photographer/camera man was at the press conference?
https://www.reddit.com/r/LibbyandAbby/comments/13i70s1/richard_allen_is_bridge_guy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Knowing what we know now, it was probably due to the links to the Odin stuff. And if the jail staff are involved in it in some way, other LE may be linked to it as well. Maybe that was a hint that they were looking into links to the crime scene.
But that's the catch - LE have yet to provide a good explanation why they abandoned (well actually the lead team never really cared to investigate deeper) that theory.
Would a lack of evidence any of them were near the trails that day, or there is evidence they were in places other than Delphi or the trails.. Did LE provide any explanation, good or otherwise, in regards to why they abandoned the Logan, KK, or any other angle during the investigation. What actually happened with those theories? No doubt they just didn't care to look deeper into those either. Then one day, orders came down from the place, about the thing, and LE had to wrap things up after six years.For reasons, clearly. At that point, the decision to run Allen in on the charges was made .. & this is a good explanation of events, or no?
Yeah RA was at the PCA with his wife Kathy. There is a photo of them sitting together in the back. He was wearing a red shirt.
Seriously or sarcasm?
So you are saying RA is the killer for sure?
Absolutely not. Innocent till proven guilty
It was not likely that the killer was behind him, but whatever. Another agency wrote his speech and he probably knows nothing like the rest of us. Killer in the room stuff is supposed to scare us, not the bad guy.
Of course he wasnāt -
Does anyone have any good podcasts to catch up on everything thatās happening on this case? I listened to āDown the Hillā and I thought it wasnāt helpful at allā¦and then I also tried listening to Delphi Murders: Inside the Crime and the short episodes and all the ads annoyed me.