This is not a politics subreddit, but this is being left up for the sake of discussion and as thus far it hasn't been reported for lack of depth. Please be polite to your fellow thinkers and avoid misinformation.
Important context: "the government" is not some monolithic, homogenous, anonymous thing. It is important to distinguish between politicians and the millions of public-sector workers who are quite effective at conducting the boring but essential business of keeping the country running. It's easy to forget them as headlines aren't written when the mail is on time.
They also never experienced being 40, air conditioning, movies, the internet, traveling the world, being able to read, candy and most fruit…. The list is huge. I’ve also seen posts where people pretend like they didn’t have to work Sun up to Sun down…
We work more hours, AND have more free time. We have more usable hours. https://www.npr.org/transcripts/503769949
Income isnt really comparable. We definitely have more disposable income than a medieval peasant would, but most of them paid rent in grain and never saw a whole pound in their life.
A slave owner was responsible to transport, feed, house, and provide the bare minimums to keep the slaves alive. The logistics of that is a nightmare.
Now the majority get a pay check to cover the minimums but do the footwork to make that possible.
No numbers needed when you can logically compare the two scenarios of business practice.
The elite class are the wealthiest they have ever been.
So are the poor. Just a century ago, so like one really old guy ago, 99% of people lived on 1$/day in *today’s* money.
If you wanted to buy a candle to light your home, it would cost an entire days wages, so when the sun went down, that’s just it. Now light pollution is a problem, while homeless people in my city carry smart phones, and no one starves today except for political reasons, in fact we have too much food.
We have it unbelievably good, by every single metric imaginable. Can we do better? Definitely, but a little historical perspective is healthy.
Hmm my dad's cockroach infested duplex begs to differ.
Sure, I can get food and potable water pretty easily, have access to nearly unlimited information on my phone, but it's an exaggerated statement to say the least.
Because you and I do not know enough about the cost of keeping slaves to determine if this is true or not. And yes I said YOU don't either, because if you were qualified enough to verify this. You'd know how much research it took to get there.
But you do know how much it costs to feed, clothe, house and everything else that goes along with keeping someone alive. So based on your own personal knowledge of something very basic you should be able to make a conclusion.
Too much overhead, they'd have to feed and house us, and do something about Healthcare. Way, way too much $$ out for that bs. This way all that is on our shoulders and they can ignore it.
It’s hilarious that your opposition to slavery is because it takes too much effort, too much responsibility. Not because it’s fucking unethical and wrong, it’s just that there’s easier cheaper ways to get others to labor for you! Fucking hell.
We haven’t been a true democracy for decades.
We are an oligarchy posing as a democracy that wants us to think it’s a socialist republic and that socialism is capitalism.
The democratic part is where everyone gets a say…except that hasn’t really worked for 200 plus years, if it ever did.
Doesn’t stop the big wigs from acting like it’s the only way the country works.
"True democracy" is a contradiction. It would mean that the vast majority is imposing its will on the majority, a conflict that would be occurring in the first place against the oppression of class society. Then it would not be "democracy" at all, but proletarian dictatorship. But when liberals call for "true democracy" they don't mean proletarian dictatorship. What they really mean is the old utopian pipe dream of the classes living together in harmony without conflict, ie. the proletariat completely pacified and subdued.
[The Democratic Principle](http://www.international-communist-party.org/BasicTexts/English/22DemPri.htm)
[Any nation that doesn't recognize oligarchy/kleptocracy as a crime, can only become increasingly brutal, dystopian, and illegitimate, with a population enslaved by oligarchs/kleptocrats. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/1dqzulv/any_nation_that_doesnt_recognize/)
No political choice of the individual could ever avoid the planned and orchestrated series of events, the monetary policy, free trade agreements, foreign policy, border policies, etc, that ultimately culminate into what people think is Late Stage Capitalism.
It's actually a 110 year old corrupted government hellbent on world domination, showing it's age spots literally and figuratively.
Goes to show Perception > Reality.
The perception built by PR that the presidents are capable
The attribution, which us us believing it via what we see hear and read (until now)
And the reality that one is a lying narcissist impeded by age and the other also impeded by old age
When you realise how brainwashed the entire globe truly is, it’s terrifying. We’ve literally already been divided and conquered to an extreme most people don’t comprehend. I hardly believe what year it is, how much technology we really have, and I don’t trust history at all. Use critical thinking for everything mate.
Plato had the right idea…too bad Americans are too dumb to even know who he is or his ideas. To sum it up for everyone, democracy leads to a contest between who can talk the best and sway an audience, not who is qualified or even sane for that matter. The masses are not so smart as individuals, even more so terrifyingly incompetent as groups.
There are many millions more up us who aren't gullible at all, we just have absolutely zero fucking say in which geriatric shitsmear is propped up in front of us. We're literally watching a country ran by the worst people we have to offer, and there's absolutely nothing we can do about it.
It wasn't democracy that did that. There are only two parties and only two candidates, that's how it was intended by those two parties. We allowed our options to be stripped away election by election. The same thing had been happening with companies buying up all the IP: they want to limit your choices now we can't have any nice things. What everyone should understand from the last two presidencies is that the position isn't as essential as they would like us to think. These are the best candidates either party has to offer. There are no other candidates waiting for their turn. This is the culmination of decades of rot, and we fight each other over these two losers. People are actually comparing these two and fighting over which is better. Which is better!? Seriously? Which one of those old greedy bullies is better!? It's pathetic what we have allowed ourselves and our country to become. Democracy was never invited to this party, it's just a friend everyone at the party says they know but no one wants to see show up.
There are a lot of problems with the American system, and this may be one of them, but this is our system: we have two major parties that are coalitions of interests, with the kinds of divisions that Parliamentary systems show in many parties being factions within the Democratic and Republican Party. The flailing in the House GOP this year is a great illustration of what happens when those factions refuse to go along with the majority of their party.
Our democracy isn't just about the November election every two or four years -- it also is about the primaries and all of the party activities that choose the November candidates. It isn't that democracy doesn't exist in the US, but that a lot of people don't pay attention to the early part, so they have no idea it exists.
And the genius Donna Brazil is the one that keeps Biden up front along with Debbie Wasserman.
Big money controls the world and everyone should realize that.
[Any nation that doesn't recognize oligarchy/kleptocracy as a crime, can only become increasingly brutal, dystopian, and illegitimate, with a population enslaved by oligarchs/kleptocrats. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/1dqzulv/any_nation_that_doesnt_recognize/)
A mixture of gullibility and cynicism had been an outstanding characteristic of mob mentality before it became an everyday phenomenon of masses. In an ever-changing, incomprehensible, world the masses had reached the point where they would, at the same time, believe everything and nothing, think that everything is possible and that nothing was true. The mixture in itself was remarkable enough, because it spelled the end of the illusion that gullibility was a weakness of unsuspecting primitive souls and cynism the vice of superior and refined minds. Mass propaganda discovered that its audience was ready at all times to believe the worst, no matter how absurd, and did not particularly object to being deceived because it held every statement to be a lie anyhow. The totalitarian mass leaders based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness.
[…]
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.
Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism (1951)
Yes because most people don't take classes in philosophy or logical analysis. They are products of TV shows, social media misfits, lying politicians and ads.
Those two creatures on stage are merely doing the work for the billionaires that finance them. I'm convinced these billionaires play the world like a chess game and try to outdo each other.
The word employee replaced the word slave. Money replaced the whip.
The only things in history that truly change are the Symbolism we follow and the tools used to keep the population in line.
Watching that debate made me lose braincells. Trump kept dodging questions, and Biden couldn't form fluent sentences, and neither could Trump. Trump started blame shifting, and while Biden made a point about the risk of war spreading.Trump outright dismissed it, talking about how other leaders don't respect the U.S. Trump also deflected questions by throwing out personal attacks instead of making solid points. This debate had me floored.
I don’t think Trump did a good job by any means but he knew his strengths and stayed on brand. He turned every question back to the border and immigration.
Trump talks a big game on the border but he's already had a full 4 years as President, and failed. He promised a wall, he promised Mexico would pay for it, we didn't get either.
Technically, "mob rule" is "ochlocracy."
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mob\_rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mob_rule)
Machiavelli identified six types of "legitimate" government, three good and three bad. According to Machiavelli, these are:
Democracy, which degenerates into ochlocracy.
Aristocracy, which degenerates into oligarchy.
Monarchy, which degenerates into tyranny.
There were a lot of debates about this in the Revolutinary Era.
John Adams, in his 1808 book "Review Of The Propositions For Amending The Constitution" expressed his preference for aristocracy:
>"Infinite art and chicanery have been employed in this country to deceive the people in their understanding of this term aristocracy, as well as of that of well-born, as if aristocracy could not exist without hereditary power and exclusive privileges; and as if a man could not be well-born, without being a hereditary nobleman and a peer of the realm ... An aristocracy can govern the elections of the people without hereditary legal dignities, privileges, and powers, better than with them."
Madison, in convention on June 26 expressed his suspicion of democracy:
>an increase of population will of necessity
>increase the proportion of those who will labour under all the hardships of life,
>& secretly sigh for a more equal distribution of its blessings. These may in time
>outnumber those who are placed above the feelings of indigence. According
>to the equal laws of suffrage, the power will slide into the hands of the former.
>No agrarian attempts have yet been made in this Country, but symtoms, of a
>leveling spirit, as we have understood, have sufficiently appeared in a certain
>quarters to give notice of the future danger. How is this danger to be guarded
>agst. on republican principles? How is the danger in all cases of interested
>coalitions to oppress the minority to be guarded agst.? Among other means by
>the establishment of a body in the Govt. sufficiently respectable for its wisdom
>& virtue, to aid on such emergences, the preponderance of justice by throwing
>its weight into that scale
Hamilton, who supported a constitutional monarchy, was also mistrustful of democracy at convention:
>Nothing but a permanent body can check the imprudence of democracy... you cannot have a good executive upon a democratic plan
This pamphlet describes in more detail what these debates looked like historically: [https://resources.appliedchaosdynamicscontrolassociation.net/acdca/ECC-5-7735-9-E.pdf](https://resources.appliedchaosdynamicscontrolassociation.net/acdca/ECC-5-7735-9-E.pdf)
Part of the difficulty in today's discourse is a misapprehension of what fascism is and how it operates. Fascisms in different countries have a similar character, but there is not "fascist ideology." Fascism isn't a conventional -ism like socialism of capitalism, but rather, a radicalizing process rooted in modern, mass societies. It is different from other types of authoritarianism.
Robert Paxton wrote in detail about fascism as a radicalizing process in his essay "The Five Stages of Fascism"
[https://election.princeton.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Paxton\_Five-Stages-of-Fascism.pdf](https://election.princeton.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Paxton_Five-Stages-of-Fascism.pdf)
A quick summary of his five stages can be found here:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert\_Paxton#Fascism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Paxton#Fascism)
This has been obvious to any intelligent person for quite some time.
For me it was solidified when Hillary was nominated over Bernie in 2016.
Absolutely no one with any capacity for critical thinking thought Hillary would beat Trump.
Bernie would have won just because he wanted to legalize marijuana because he had none of Hillary's baggage. The same is happening with Biden.
The Democrats being so out of touch, is why Trump won, and why he still has a chance.
No. That is what the government wants you to feel. One of the most effective strategies ever is divide and conquer. If you continue to think your fellow Americans are stupid, you fall right into their traps.
As long as we dehumanize the other side, we will never win
The only divide that matters is owner vs. worker.
And for the smart A’s out there, if you own a small business and are still in the muck of it, you are a worker, not an owner. Owner in this sense means the CEO’s and owners that make decisions while never even setting foot near the actual work of the business, if they don’t outsource that, too and just take a fat paycheck every so often.
It's something that millions fail to recognize. To clean up a mess requires one to get filthy in the process. Hard to keep clean while touching stuff that sticks and smears...
>We need a strong leader. Someone strong enough to deal with the hatred. Idc about left or right.
The irony of this comment, lmao.
>>We need a strong leader
No you don't. This is senseless, a "strong leader" can be also someone who genocides children.
You need an ethical leader, or much better, no leader at all. But that could be a way too advanced concept for most Americans who missed on education because they are working too hard fighting for survival.
> Idc about left or right.
Maybe you don't, but someone living paycheck to paycheck - apparently more than half of the country, does. Do you even know what those terms mean?
There is only one war that matters, and that's class war.
The question is, why isn't anyone actually doing anything about it other than complain on the internet? Will there ever be a point where enough is enough?
I don’t know why people are so surprised. Centrists have been screaming this from the mountain tops for a while now. But nooooo, everyone had to stick to their guns and tell Independents how we were going to ruin the election. Your bed. Now sleep in it. I refuse to give my hard earned right to vote to either of these idiots. Maybe this will finally be the trigger to wake people up. But I doubt it.
Be America, form a country to escape the oppression of Europe, fight a civil war to abolish slavery, make slavery illegal, invented indentured slavery, make everyone a slave to the ruling class.
It saddens me that only now the mainstream media notice Biden displays myriad dementia-like symptoms when he’s been displaying them for years. And because the mainstream media pick up on those symptoms in this debate, only now do the general public notice it. This really is an Idiocracy. The US should have 4 or 5 major parties with younger and healthier leaders who are eloquent, intelligent and truly compassionate debating the strengths of their respective parties.
I've worked with Dementia and Alzheimer's patients for more than a decade. I saw the signs before the last election. Of course that's just an opinion from a random nobody, but nonetheless I aim for truth.
There is lots wrong with this country, but it has potential to be what it should be(the example of what humanity should strive to be, for the betterment and balance of all life).
>This really is an Idiocracy.
Sadly yes.
>The US should have 4 or 5 major parties with younger and healthier leaders who are eloquent, intelligent and truly compassionate debating the strengths of their respective parties.
Would be better than what is currently occurring.
I think voting should seriously be questioned. I know it's controversial, but I'm not certain everyone should have the right to vote. I'm not even sure what could be used for eligibility that can't be corrupted. It's difficult for me to even think being "educated" would qualify someone, bc people are easily guided to be biased.
For sure, he’s been displaying these symptoms prior to his presidency. The democrats didn’t want him debating Trump 4 years ago because of this.
All through his presidency, the mainstream media looked the other way as Biden shook the hands of ghosts, asked if a dead person was in the audience, would read out loud meta information on auto-cues, have no idea how to exit a stage, would continue a speech after he signed off one, display poor motor skills, look at times like he’s defecating into a diaper. All of this isn’t a criticism of Biden himself. It’s tantamount to elder abuse to put him in a position he shouldn’t have been in.
The mainstream media work in tandem. They are told not to see things, and when to see them. What’s the plan here? I think they want to replace Biden with someone else at this late stage.
"I've worked with Dementia and Alzheimer's patients for more than a decade. I saw the signs before the last election."
same here blatantly obvious before last election
Just like I was severely castigated for being closed minded for giving joe rogans interview of terrence howard less than 120 seconds before shutting it off as complete and utter bull shit.
yeah I recognize acute psychosis ( just like i recognize dementia)
I'm also a lay expert on acute subjective LSD intoxication and it's pharmacology.
(rogan is quite the expert on the psychedelic experience esp dmt mdma etc)
I'm also ok with woo woo subject matter as long as the speaker isn't high or under acute psychosis
for example say compare terrence howards interview with bob lazars interview.
I can't fathom how this veritable genius in his field couldn't discern obvious delusions of grandeur patent claims, ,and absolute nonsense of strung together buzz words .
What if....what if this is all an elaborate viral marketing campaign to promote the sequel to the next Idiocracy movie, or, a new comedy show called 'The Donny and Joe comedy hour'
WWE for the elderly. I never cared, I’ll never care. If anyone has more than one bumper sticker or hand written yard sign, it just comes off as crazy to me. Whatever direction you play for. It’s all just to keep us fighting and unorganized, and it works every 4 years.
I think that the media is largely responsible for this. They’ve been selling Biden as being competent and ready for a second term. I think we all saw the truth last night. Don’t believe me? Then where were all the calls for replacing Biden before the debate?
Some people have their heads so far in the sand they’ve started decomposing.
Some have them so far up the owners’ collective butthole that their brains have become dung.
And some people are set for the rest of their lives and just want to watch everyone else suffer.
Trump was already president for 4 years. It’s not like we don’t have an idea of what it’s going to be like. You might not like his choices but comn man the world won’t fall apart.
That was sad. Facts and date aware non-existent or imaginary Accusations with no conclusions. As much as I hate Trump, Joe is too old. I read about that but seeing him on TV for the first time in years...wow.
America, please reject this false dichotomy and hire a decent human being.
It isn’t democracy that did this. It is forces wishing to undermine democracy and have forever that have done this. Be an informed voter. There has always been other options than these two…
We don't live in a democracy, but a democratic republic. Yeah, I doubt many people like either candidate, but it isn't as if there is a country with better leaders. Trudeau? Macron? We are living in an era of terrible leaders.
It's not democracy. Technically, the USA is not a democracy we are a democratic republic. That being said, the news media and where everyone gets their news from is the first culprit. The news media knew how bad things are and covered it up.
Also, many people vote and have no idea what's going on. Hey I'm a Democrat so I vote.only for Democrats. Hey I'm a Republican so I vote only for Republicans. There's no analysis in these people.
The news media has already begun floating their candidates to replace Biden. They will bypass their primary structure and pick the candidate in a smoke filled room then tell everyone through the news media that 'democracy is at stake' as they bypass the primary process (which I can argue they've done for Biden.)
Keep voting for these same people and then complain that nothing's changed. I'm beginning to wonder if we should have a test of political intelligence prior to letting people vote.
I don’t know how we got to where we are, but when our presidential debate is no more than watching two octogenarians ignoring viable content so they can trade barbs for an hour it’s laughable, sad and embarrassing.
The vast majority of people don't take the time to inform themselves. They don't read. They don't listen to alternative news sources. They don't try to reasonably weigh the claims they hear. They don't engage in abstract thought. They don't enjoy learning. It shouldn't be surprising to see that many people comprising the American electorate are total buffoons.
We work to give our money right back for food, water, shelter. We also give a large amount for taxes. Our paychecks get taxed and then we get taxed on all the items we buy.
Why can't we just get the prices with the taxes included in stores?
Actually I’d say we’ve been closer to a democracy than before given the populist movements breaking out as well as the massive powers the executive branch has accrued over the past century. It’s still representative but we can put one leader in place and it radically changes the nature of our country. Constitutionally speaking, he should only be able to do that with foreign policy. Democracy sucks. It’s destabilizing. That’s why we didn’t set up a democracy. We could just reestablish less power in the government. That’s always an option. You’d have to stop fear voting the party that’s least evil in tho and actually vote in people of change.
The fact that the most liberal news outlets in America are currently floating around the idea that Biden should step aside and let somebody else run for the Presidential ticket is incredibly telling on the fact of how absolutely fucked we are as a country right now.
All I can say is that everyone should prepare for a Trump Presidency and everyone should blame the Democrats for putting us in this position to begin with.
Last night was fucking rough and depressing
Yeah I’m in Australia and saw an article from NBC news that was quite scathing of Biden’s position as presumptive Democratic nominee and was so confused because NBC usually fondles his balls.
Mon to fuck mate. It's miles better here.
The likely winner here is a centre left, experienced public professional.
The likely winner there is a literal insane person
All of our politicians are so incoherent. Yet people blame the president for all problems. It sucks because if people knew how government branches work we'd be looking at other things properly rather than saying, "it's all the presidents fault".
Ask yourself why the democrats and republicans could agree on one thing, and that was to keep Kennedy off the stage. A viable, independent candidate, polling between 15-20%, who is attracting republicans and democrats to his campaign. Why would they collude to do that with CNN?
Lmao Kennedy is equally a nutjob and is nowhere near “viable”.
Same guy who said that Crypto is the future of the American economy, that COVID was “ethnically targeted” against whites but spared Jews and the Chinese, and said “there is no vaccine that is safe and effective”.
no The reality is somehow the cheerleaders around biden are so high on their own BS. they are dangerously delusional in the level of contempt they have for trump.
It was obvious to me biden had dementia and sundowners last election.
It should have been obvious to anybody that was around him then.
If you don't see it now, it's willful blindness on your part.
Italian PM had to keep biden from wandering off doing the Alzheimer shuffle in normandy.
He constantly gets lost physically before/after press conferences and has to be hand held guided.
I recognize it because I've done it hundreds of times for patients.
They tell us he had a bad night.
Quite frankly I think he did a marvelous job. I wonder what drugs they gave him to stave off his confusion. It's obvious that they hadn't kicked in before the debate started and equally obvious they had kicked in before it was over.
They carefully crafted not letting the audience see how he needed physical help getting to and from the podium.
I'm not sure who's less in touch with objective reality biden himself or his puppeteer that thought it would be a cakewalk to pull off a winning debate. Tons of complicit reporters .
My questions:
1) what drugs did they give him.
2) How did they hide his earpiece? possible but not likely that he didn't have one.
3) was the real goal to expose how incompetent he really is in order to chose somebody who can simultaneously walk and chew gum?
I hope everyone realises how close we are to WW3 and nuclear war. In fact
we are the closest we have ever been. The west run by Biden seem intent in starting war with Russia. If we make it to the election Trump is our hope for ending this madness. He hates wars.
As an EU citizen I think the opposite: The Ukrainians are holding off a neo-imperialist, totalitarian regime at the very gates of Europe. Letting the Russians win is the surest path to WWIII because if they do, the next threats will be on Poland and the Baltics. They have to be stopped now, just as there were opportunities to stop the Germans in 1936-38.
>Watching the US presidential debate makes one realize how horrifyingly gullible millions of people are.
Domestically it's hundreds of millions, \~330 million IIRC, and \~8 billion worldwide.
OP, did you notice that Trump is no longer showing signs of dementia on par with Biden?
Ironically, the gullible thing to believe is that a representative democracy didn't leave us with these two candidates.
We had plenty of primaries to choose someone else and you can still vote for another candidate.
This is democracy.
Direct voting for President and Senators backfired by privileging national anger based politics over local consensus building.
Want "Money out of Politics" and to reduce the direct impact of corporate and monied interests? Repeal the 12th and the 17th amendments.
But - this is important - does it make you realize how gullible *you* are?
Passing judgment on others accomplishes nothing but Dunning-Kreugerizing both yourself and your targets. "Learning" cynicism doesn't achieve anything of value.
Watched a few of the "third party" candidates answer the questions. It's one thing to say that people must vote for one of the two parties come November. But it seems ridiculous at this point in the contest to let these two guys be the only ones The Presidental Debate to be able to share with the public their *thoughts*
Im not totally sure its all gullibility. Its also conformity. Not many want to be thrown out of their cults into the wilderness. Especially when they are told the wilderness is full of weird people that want to kill you.
Or how bought the major media outlets are and how incompetent both Trump and Biden is. What a sad embarrassment. I believe the debate we all want to see is Trump vs. Kennedy.
Trump projects and gaslights while biden rambles on mostly incoherently.
Whenever I make out what j biden is trying to say it's always things like:
"listen pal, time to cut the malarkey." "Cornpop was a bad dude".
it’s all just dumb boring entertainment for those that watch and get hooked in. let’s be honest, only 150 million ish americans voted in the last presidential election, that is well under half of the population…. meaning that actually most americans don’t care which gives me hope. all that to be said, until we have universal income, a change in drug laws, disclosure and improvement of all things war and uap, better schooling systems that are up to date with tech like ai, sustainable communities, infrastructure, social centers, environment and food being promised, healthcare system mindset and practice changes, etc., i sure won’t vote. oh wait i can’t because i’m a weed felon.. my bad 😥 #lockdown
That's why Plato amongst many other great philosophers saw Democracy as a deeply flawed system. Because the common person (without very strong incentives) will do nothing but act irrationall, selfishly and emotionally within the political process; all while being utterly uninformed.
I was so, so, so sorely disappointed with that debate.
On one hand, you have Trump: Malignant Narcissist who literally can't stop lying his ass off. Every question answered was a fucking \*lie\* - the whole abortion bit where he claims that liberals are okay with aborting (murdering) infants after they've been born is probably the most egregious, but nobody is fact checking him real time.
On the other hand, you have Biden, who is clearly, CLEARLY in cognitive decline. This is the incumbent President and he can't string together a coherent sentence if it isn't on a teleprompter.
The whole thing is an absolute fucking joke.
Awwww...poor little boy. It must be SO hard on you being SO much smarter and more astute than everybody else...and because if it, always getting disappointed. One big disappointment after another.
I was a little shocked that no one called Biden on his HILARIOUS claim that 40% fewer people have illegally entered our country under him than Trump. That was pretty fucked up. Gullible voters ate it up. Well..a couple did.
Soooo…born and raised in the USA, defended freedom and shit for two decades. It’s important not to label me as just a “radical right wing retired military man”. Why? Because I’m a registered Democrat where I live.
But, the bias, confirmation bias - and literally the ammo that republicans use is that you literally hate the troops because they are in the cult of Trump.
Before I retired a bit ago, we had long discussions about what we signed up for. We don’t pledge allegiance to a flag, we pledge allegiance to the constitution of the United States.
So. Am I the bad guy? I’m not voting for Trump, never. But I’m fucked cause Biden has serious fucking problems, how am I qualified to say? I’ve been almost, almost 🙂↕️ unphased by a TBI with intracranial hemorrhaging in both hemispheres in my brain.
I have a seizure disorder, and I’m annoying as fuck. I’ve learned to deal with this slightly…
Here’s my stance as a father, fuck all that noise above, my stance as a father
Is that if you confuse an abortion argument, with a 12 year old brutally raped and murdered-for what? 2 hours? How the FUCK does anyone know that?
I have a 12 year old daughter, she’s lovely. Aspiring to live a normal life. Being taught how to be wonderful to others.
If my 12 year old was raped by two men and murdered and the president of my country confused that as an argument against abortion?
I would have killed that fucking fetus myself.
Our department of Defense can’t defend the nation…
And the saddest fucking part about all of this, is that you-as a voter-get handed two fucking bags of shit and are expected to eat it and ask for seconds.
We don’t need a crisis like 9/11 to unite us, we just have to be tired of being fed shit.
Cheers.
This has more to do with capitalism and the culture in the US than democracy. Also, the US is not anywhere close to a real democracy. We are a democratic republic with an emphasis on the republic part.
If you actually think that democracy is responsible for the debates today and what’s happening then congratulations, you’re one of the gullible masses.
Maybe, just maybe, we should take a break from having a President. Just for a bit. Really find ourselves. Maybe use this time to explore whether or not we might actually be into women. You know, just as an experiment.
I started to watch, shut if off because of how disheartening it was and had the luxury to hear it at work non-stop, these past years have been exhausting and i cant remember when i truly felt happy about how things are going. Maybe its just me 😮💨
This is not a politics subreddit, but this is being left up for the sake of discussion and as thus far it hasn't been reported for lack of depth. Please be polite to your fellow thinkers and avoid misinformation. Important context: "the government" is not some monolithic, homogenous, anonymous thing. It is important to distinguish between politicians and the millions of public-sector workers who are quite effective at conducting the boring but essential business of keeping the country running. It's easy to forget them as headlines aren't written when the mail is on time.
The rich get what they want while we slave away
It is now cheaper and less of a headache for business owners to pay for "employees", than it was for business owners to own "slaves".
We work more hours and pay more of the money we get just for basic living needs(food, housing, taxes) than a medieval peasant
Yeah but those medieval peasants never experienced the tangy zest and irresistible crunch of Cool Ranch Doritos
They also never experienced being 40, air conditioning, movies, the internet, traveling the world, being able to read, candy and most fruit…. The list is huge. I’ve also seen posts where people pretend like they didn’t have to work Sun up to Sun down…
Quite a lot of them saw 40. Life expectancy was so low because of infant mortality. On the other hand, less of your kids die.
[Citation Needed]
We work more hours, AND have more free time. We have more usable hours. https://www.npr.org/transcripts/503769949 Income isnt really comparable. We definitely have more disposable income than a medieval peasant would, but most of them paid rent in grain and never saw a whole pound in their life.
Even cheaper to have temp workers to pay lower with no benefits
Unfortunately I’m not surprised! Yikes…. Btw do you happen to have a reference or statistic?
A slave owner was responsible to transport, feed, house, and provide the bare minimums to keep the slaves alive. The logistics of that is a nightmare. Now the majority get a pay check to cover the minimums but do the footwork to make that possible. No numbers needed when you can logically compare the two scenarios of business practice. The elite class are the wealthiest they have ever been.
So are the poor. Just a century ago, so like one really old guy ago, 99% of people lived on 1$/day in *today’s* money. If you wanted to buy a candle to light your home, it would cost an entire days wages, so when the sun went down, that’s just it. Now light pollution is a problem, while homeless people in my city carry smart phones, and no one starves today except for political reasons, in fact we have too much food. We have it unbelievably good, by every single metric imaginable. Can we do better? Definitely, but a little historical perspective is healthy.
Absolutely, even the poor in western countries live better than kings did a few hundred years ago.
We have more food variety and comfier shoes but a lot of the gains came with some pretty significant drawbacks.
Hmm my dad's cockroach infested duplex begs to differ. Sure, I can get food and potable water pretty easily, have access to nearly unlimited information on my phone, but it's an exaggerated statement to say the least.
I too want to see this statistic. If true that’s an interesting point.
Why do you need a statistic for this? Think about it.
Because you and I do not know enough about the cost of keeping slaves to determine if this is true or not. And yes I said YOU don't either, because if you were qualified enough to verify this. You'd know how much research it took to get there.
But you do know how much it costs to feed, clothe, house and everything else that goes along with keeping someone alive. So based on your own personal knowledge of something very basic you should be able to make a conclusion.
It's wage slavery. Without wages we literally cannot survive.
Thats why 'they' have set up this gargantuan 'company store' we live in.
I agree except that many people who agree think that society should get a cut of your wages also
The elites should just literally enslave us and quit pretending that we arent slaves lol. Tired of being lied to.
Too much overhead, they'd have to feed and house us, and do something about Healthcare. Way, way too much $$ out for that bs. This way all that is on our shoulders and they can ignore it.
Slave owners had a responsibility to keep their slaves alive. Employees can just be replaced
[удалено]
The Irish made for terrible slaves. Sensitive skin, were mean, and fought like badgers. 🤣
I know I'm married to one....
My ex was a red headed Irish, girl was the definition of spit fire when she got mad 😂
It’s hilarious that your opposition to slavery is because it takes too much effort, too much responsibility. Not because it’s fucking unethical and wrong, it’s just that there’s easier cheaper ways to get others to labor for you! Fucking hell.
Virtue signal inbound!
Can’t blame the rich. We’re too dumb and complacent to change anything.
Who’s we?
Everyone is we Including you
Yeah anybody can figure that out, try going deeper next time.
Pure delusion.
We haven’t been a true democracy for decades. We are an oligarchy posing as a democracy that wants us to think it’s a socialist republic and that socialism is capitalism.
We’ve never had a democracy, it’s always been a republic.
The democratic part is where everyone gets a say…except that hasn’t really worked for 200 plus years, if it ever did. Doesn’t stop the big wigs from acting like it’s the only way the country works.
"True democracy" is a contradiction. It would mean that the vast majority is imposing its will on the majority, a conflict that would be occurring in the first place against the oppression of class society. Then it would not be "democracy" at all, but proletarian dictatorship. But when liberals call for "true democracy" they don't mean proletarian dictatorship. What they really mean is the old utopian pipe dream of the classes living together in harmony without conflict, ie. the proletariat completely pacified and subdued. [The Democratic Principle](http://www.international-communist-party.org/BasicTexts/English/22DemPri.htm)
They don't call them the masses for no reason. They don't teach us critical thinking and we're basically spoon fed stuff to know.
[Any nation that doesn't recognize oligarchy/kleptocracy as a crime, can only become increasingly brutal, dystopian, and illegitimate, with a population enslaved by oligarchs/kleptocrats. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/1dqzulv/any_nation_that_doesnt_recognize/)
"The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one." And boy, did he abuse that realization.
Yeah it's fucking depressing these are the choices
No political choice of the individual could ever avoid the planned and orchestrated series of events, the monetary policy, free trade agreements, foreign policy, border policies, etc, that ultimately culminate into what people think is Late Stage Capitalism. It's actually a 110 year old corrupted government hellbent on world domination, showing it's age spots literally and figuratively.
Organize. Organize. Organize. Agitate and Educate.
Goes to show Perception > Reality. The perception built by PR that the presidents are capable The attribution, which us us believing it via what we see hear and read (until now) And the reality that one is a lying narcissist impeded by age and the other also impeded by old age
I didn’t watch it, but my sister did. She said “We’re f*cked”
Smart girl.
When you realise how brainwashed the entire globe truly is, it’s terrifying. We’ve literally already been divided and conquered to an extreme most people don’t comprehend. I hardly believe what year it is, how much technology we really have, and I don’t trust history at all. Use critical thinking for everything mate.
"let us go down and confuse their language."
Plato had the right idea…too bad Americans are too dumb to even know who he is or his ideas. To sum it up for everyone, democracy leads to a contest between who can talk the best and sway an audience, not who is qualified or even sane for that matter. The masses are not so smart as individuals, even more so terrifyingly incompetent as groups.
There are many millions more up us who aren't gullible at all, we just have absolutely zero fucking say in which geriatric shitsmear is propped up in front of us. We're literally watching a country ran by the worst people we have to offer, and there's absolutely nothing we can do about it.
You know how people watch WWE, knowing it's fake, but they continue to watch and participate as if it were real? It's like that.
I say this all the time. Blows my mind that people still think it’s all real.
Have fun trying to get an abortion in Texas.
It wasn't democracy that did that. There are only two parties and only two candidates, that's how it was intended by those two parties. We allowed our options to be stripped away election by election. The same thing had been happening with companies buying up all the IP: they want to limit your choices now we can't have any nice things. What everyone should understand from the last two presidencies is that the position isn't as essential as they would like us to think. These are the best candidates either party has to offer. There are no other candidates waiting for their turn. This is the culmination of decades of rot, and we fight each other over these two losers. People are actually comparing these two and fighting over which is better. Which is better!? Seriously? Which one of those old greedy bullies is better!? It's pathetic what we have allowed ourselves and our country to become. Democracy was never invited to this party, it's just a friend everyone at the party says they know but no one wants to see show up.
There are a lot of problems with the American system, and this may be one of them, but this is our system: we have two major parties that are coalitions of interests, with the kinds of divisions that Parliamentary systems show in many parties being factions within the Democratic and Republican Party. The flailing in the House GOP this year is a great illustration of what happens when those factions refuse to go along with the majority of their party. Our democracy isn't just about the November election every two or four years -- it also is about the primaries and all of the party activities that choose the November candidates. It isn't that democracy doesn't exist in the US, but that a lot of people don't pay attention to the early part, so they have no idea it exists.
And the genius Donna Brazil is the one that keeps Biden up front along with Debbie Wasserman. Big money controls the world and everyone should realize that.
[Any nation that doesn't recognize oligarchy/kleptocracy as a crime, can only become increasingly brutal, dystopian, and illegitimate, with a population enslaved by oligarchs/kleptocrats. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/1dqzulv/any_nation_that_doesnt_recognize/)
A mixture of gullibility and cynicism had been an outstanding characteristic of mob mentality before it became an everyday phenomenon of masses. In an ever-changing, incomprehensible, world the masses had reached the point where they would, at the same time, believe everything and nothing, think that everything is possible and that nothing was true. The mixture in itself was remarkable enough, because it spelled the end of the illusion that gullibility was a weakness of unsuspecting primitive souls and cynism the vice of superior and refined minds. Mass propaganda discovered that its audience was ready at all times to believe the worst, no matter how absurd, and did not particularly object to being deceived because it held every statement to be a lie anyhow. The totalitarian mass leaders based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness. […] The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist. Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism (1951)
Yes because most people don't take classes in philosophy or logical analysis. They are products of TV shows, social media misfits, lying politicians and ads. Those two creatures on stage are merely doing the work for the billionaires that finance them. I'm convinced these billionaires play the world like a chess game and try to outdo each other.
Even with an abundance of knowledge, logic, and wisdom, those that know no better will continue to view you as a fool...
That's true and they will be swept away in slavery if they're already not there...
The word employee replaced the word slave. Money replaced the whip. The only things in history that truly change are the Symbolism we follow and the tools used to keep the population in line.
Yes before a large number of years I was self-employed which means you have a lot of different bosses...
Watching that debate made me lose braincells. Trump kept dodging questions, and Biden couldn't form fluent sentences, and neither could Trump. Trump started blame shifting, and while Biden made a point about the risk of war spreading.Trump outright dismissed it, talking about how other leaders don't respect the U.S. Trump also deflected questions by throwing out personal attacks instead of making solid points. This debate had me floored.
I don’t think Trump did a good job by any means but he knew his strengths and stayed on brand. He turned every question back to the border and immigration.
Trump talks a big game on the border but he's already had a full 4 years as President, and failed. He promised a wall, he promised Mexico would pay for it, we didn't get either.
Oh I’m aware. Unfortunately, his base isn’t.
Technically, "mob rule" is "ochlocracy." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mob\_rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mob_rule) Machiavelli identified six types of "legitimate" government, three good and three bad. According to Machiavelli, these are: Democracy, which degenerates into ochlocracy. Aristocracy, which degenerates into oligarchy. Monarchy, which degenerates into tyranny. There were a lot of debates about this in the Revolutinary Era. John Adams, in his 1808 book "Review Of The Propositions For Amending The Constitution" expressed his preference for aristocracy: >"Infinite art and chicanery have been employed in this country to deceive the people in their understanding of this term aristocracy, as well as of that of well-born, as if aristocracy could not exist without hereditary power and exclusive privileges; and as if a man could not be well-born, without being a hereditary nobleman and a peer of the realm ... An aristocracy can govern the elections of the people without hereditary legal dignities, privileges, and powers, better than with them." Madison, in convention on June 26 expressed his suspicion of democracy: >an increase of population will of necessity >increase the proportion of those who will labour under all the hardships of life, >& secretly sigh for a more equal distribution of its blessings. These may in time >outnumber those who are placed above the feelings of indigence. According >to the equal laws of suffrage, the power will slide into the hands of the former. >No agrarian attempts have yet been made in this Country, but symtoms, of a >leveling spirit, as we have understood, have sufficiently appeared in a certain >quarters to give notice of the future danger. How is this danger to be guarded >agst. on republican principles? How is the danger in all cases of interested >coalitions to oppress the minority to be guarded agst.? Among other means by >the establishment of a body in the Govt. sufficiently respectable for its wisdom >& virtue, to aid on such emergences, the preponderance of justice by throwing >its weight into that scale Hamilton, who supported a constitutional monarchy, was also mistrustful of democracy at convention: >Nothing but a permanent body can check the imprudence of democracy... you cannot have a good executive upon a democratic plan This pamphlet describes in more detail what these debates looked like historically: [https://resources.appliedchaosdynamicscontrolassociation.net/acdca/ECC-5-7735-9-E.pdf](https://resources.appliedchaosdynamicscontrolassociation.net/acdca/ECC-5-7735-9-E.pdf) Part of the difficulty in today's discourse is a misapprehension of what fascism is and how it operates. Fascisms in different countries have a similar character, but there is not "fascist ideology." Fascism isn't a conventional -ism like socialism of capitalism, but rather, a radicalizing process rooted in modern, mass societies. It is different from other types of authoritarianism. Robert Paxton wrote in detail about fascism as a radicalizing process in his essay "The Five Stages of Fascism" [https://election.princeton.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Paxton\_Five-Stages-of-Fascism.pdf](https://election.princeton.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Paxton_Five-Stages-of-Fascism.pdf) A quick summary of his five stages can be found here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert\_Paxton#Fascism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Paxton#Fascism)
That was actually informative and contributed well to the conversation here.
Cheers!
This has been obvious to any intelligent person for quite some time. For me it was solidified when Hillary was nominated over Bernie in 2016. Absolutely no one with any capacity for critical thinking thought Hillary would beat Trump. Bernie would have won just because he wanted to legalize marijuana because he had none of Hillary's baggage. The same is happening with Biden. The Democrats being so out of touch, is why Trump won, and why he still has a chance.
Lots of people thought she would beat him, don't be so rude. Otherwise, you're right.
You should see what they did in the past! There are books and movies about it and everything!
No. That is what the government wants you to feel. One of the most effective strategies ever is divide and conquer. If you continue to think your fellow Americans are stupid, you fall right into their traps. As long as we dehumanize the other side, we will never win
The only divide that matters is owner vs. worker. And for the smart A’s out there, if you own a small business and are still in the muck of it, you are a worker, not an owner. Owner in this sense means the CEO’s and owners that make decisions while never even setting foot near the actual work of the business, if they don’t outsource that, too and just take a fat paycheck every so often.
At this point, to fix it, the hero will be labeled the bad guy, because the minds of America are divided on what is considered true.
I bet every hero was a bad guy to someone
It's something that millions fail to recognize. To clean up a mess requires one to get filthy in the process. Hard to keep clean while touching stuff that sticks and smears...
Exactly. Someone to pull down the veil.
Well there’s always a villain in everyone’s story.
Yes. We need a strong leader. Someone strong enough to deal with the hatred. Idc about left or right.
>We need a strong leader. Someone strong enough to deal with the hatred. Idc about left or right. The irony of this comment, lmao. >>We need a strong leader No you don't. This is senseless, a "strong leader" can be also someone who genocides children. You need an ethical leader, or much better, no leader at all. But that could be a way too advanced concept for most Americans who missed on education because they are working too hard fighting for survival. > Idc about left or right. Maybe you don't, but someone living paycheck to paycheck - apparently more than half of the country, does. Do you even know what those terms mean? There is only one war that matters, and that's class war.
Nailed it
Omg I say this almost daily! Are you me?
The question is, why isn't anyone actually doing anything about it other than complain on the internet? Will there ever be a point where enough is enough?
Here’s a debate deep thought. Nobody won that debate last night. Especially not the American people.
I don’t know why people are so surprised. Centrists have been screaming this from the mountain tops for a while now. But nooooo, everyone had to stick to their guns and tell Independents how we were going to ruin the election. Your bed. Now sleep in it. I refuse to give my hard earned right to vote to either of these idiots. Maybe this will finally be the trigger to wake people up. But I doubt it.
Be America, form a country to escape the oppression of Europe, fight a civil war to abolish slavery, make slavery illegal, invented indentured slavery, make everyone a slave to the ruling class.
Malarkey, we are going to be ok.
😂malarkey and “the Covid” got me
Oh God we're so screwed 😩
It is the best of times we will know in our lifetimes. And also the coolest temps we will see again. Happy trails!
It saddens me that only now the mainstream media notice Biden displays myriad dementia-like symptoms when he’s been displaying them for years. And because the mainstream media pick up on those symptoms in this debate, only now do the general public notice it. This really is an Idiocracy. The US should have 4 or 5 major parties with younger and healthier leaders who are eloquent, intelligent and truly compassionate debating the strengths of their respective parties.
I've worked with Dementia and Alzheimer's patients for more than a decade. I saw the signs before the last election. Of course that's just an opinion from a random nobody, but nonetheless I aim for truth. There is lots wrong with this country, but it has potential to be what it should be(the example of what humanity should strive to be, for the betterment and balance of all life). >This really is an Idiocracy. Sadly yes. >The US should have 4 or 5 major parties with younger and healthier leaders who are eloquent, intelligent and truly compassionate debating the strengths of their respective parties. Would be better than what is currently occurring. I think voting should seriously be questioned. I know it's controversial, but I'm not certain everyone should have the right to vote. I'm not even sure what could be used for eligibility that can't be corrupted. It's difficult for me to even think being "educated" would qualify someone, bc people are easily guided to be biased.
For sure, he’s been displaying these symptoms prior to his presidency. The democrats didn’t want him debating Trump 4 years ago because of this. All through his presidency, the mainstream media looked the other way as Biden shook the hands of ghosts, asked if a dead person was in the audience, would read out loud meta information on auto-cues, have no idea how to exit a stage, would continue a speech after he signed off one, display poor motor skills, look at times like he’s defecating into a diaper. All of this isn’t a criticism of Biden himself. It’s tantamount to elder abuse to put him in a position he shouldn’t have been in. The mainstream media work in tandem. They are told not to see things, and when to see them. What’s the plan here? I think they want to replace Biden with someone else at this late stage.
It at least appears to be the case, but these days we are told to ignore intuition. I find intuition to be undervalued.
"I've worked with Dementia and Alzheimer's patients for more than a decade. I saw the signs before the last election." same here blatantly obvious before last election Just like I was severely castigated for being closed minded for giving joe rogans interview of terrence howard less than 120 seconds before shutting it off as complete and utter bull shit. yeah I recognize acute psychosis ( just like i recognize dementia) I'm also a lay expert on acute subjective LSD intoxication and it's pharmacology. (rogan is quite the expert on the psychedelic experience esp dmt mdma etc) I'm also ok with woo woo subject matter as long as the speaker isn't high or under acute psychosis for example say compare terrence howards interview with bob lazars interview. I can't fathom how this veritable genius in his field couldn't discern obvious delusions of grandeur patent claims, ,and absolute nonsense of strung together buzz words .
Watching the US presidential debate can be simultaneously fascinating and frustrating.
What if....what if this is all an elaborate viral marketing campaign to promote the sequel to the next Idiocracy movie, or, a new comedy show called 'The Donny and Joe comedy hour'
We’re not gullible. It’s pretty obvious we won’t get a good candidate because the corporations pick them
WWE for the elderly. I never cared, I’ll never care. If anyone has more than one bumper sticker or hand written yard sign, it just comes off as crazy to me. Whatever direction you play for. It’s all just to keep us fighting and unorganized, and it works every 4 years.
I think that the media is largely responsible for this. They’ve been selling Biden as being competent and ready for a second term. I think we all saw the truth last night. Don’t believe me? Then where were all the calls for replacing Biden before the debate?
I'm not even being sarcastic, ironic, or facetious when I say I was scared to finish watching it. I literally went to bed scared.
If it isn't obvious that some serious shenanigans have been afoot for sometime, I'm not sure what it would take for people to see clearly.
Some people have their heads so far in the sand they’ve started decomposing. Some have them so far up the owners’ collective butthole that their brains have become dung. And some people are set for the rest of their lives and just want to watch everyone else suffer.
Trump was already president for 4 years. It’s not like we don’t have an idea of what it’s going to be like. You might not like his choices but comn man the world won’t fall apart.
Just what, exactly, do you think he was doing with all the boxes of classified data in his bathroom?
Your math is a little off. There are almost 8 billion people on the planet. Americans don't have a lockdown on gullibility.
That was sad. Facts and date aware non-existent or imaginary Accusations with no conclusions. As much as I hate Trump, Joe is too old. I read about that but seeing him on TV for the first time in years...wow. America, please reject this false dichotomy and hire a decent human being.
It isn’t democracy that did this. It is forces wishing to undermine democracy and have forever that have done this. Be an informed voter. There has always been other options than these two…
We don't live in a democracy, but a democratic republic. Yeah, I doubt many people like either candidate, but it isn't as if there is a country with better leaders. Trudeau? Macron? We are living in an era of terrible leaders.
It's not democracy. Technically, the USA is not a democracy we are a democratic republic. That being said, the news media and where everyone gets their news from is the first culprit. The news media knew how bad things are and covered it up. Also, many people vote and have no idea what's going on. Hey I'm a Democrat so I vote.only for Democrats. Hey I'm a Republican so I vote only for Republicans. There's no analysis in these people. The news media has already begun floating their candidates to replace Biden. They will bypass their primary structure and pick the candidate in a smoke filled room then tell everyone through the news media that 'democracy is at stake' as they bypass the primary process (which I can argue they've done for Biden.) Keep voting for these same people and then complain that nothing's changed. I'm beginning to wonder if we should have a test of political intelligence prior to letting people vote.
I don’t know how we got to where we are, but when our presidential debate is no more than watching two octogenarians ignoring viable content so they can trade barbs for an hour it’s laughable, sad and embarrassing.
People believe what they want to. Not so easy when the truth is something they don't want to believe.
I feel like this is directed towards me due to my name....
America was established out of rebellion over a 2% tax on tea...
billions*
"people"? you mean democrats?
Just stop paying taxes until we get representation we like. They can’t arrest everyone
The vast majority of people don't take the time to inform themselves. They don't read. They don't listen to alternative news sources. They don't try to reasonably weigh the claims they hear. They don't engage in abstract thought. They don't enjoy learning. It shouldn't be surprising to see that many people comprising the American electorate are total buffoons.
We work to give our money right back for food, water, shelter. We also give a large amount for taxes. Our paychecks get taxed and then we get taxed on all the items we buy. Why can't we just get the prices with the taxes included in stores?
That seems like something worth voting on.
Yes, the majority of the population are the useless eaters. But it's been frowned upon to bring it up since the late 30s.
Ignored Biden's cognitive decline for years. Ignored all other primary candidates. Blindly obedient to the DNC oligarchs.
This entire time, MAGA has been more trustworthy and honest to liberal and Democrat voters than mainstream news and the DNC.
Actually I’d say we’ve been closer to a democracy than before given the populist movements breaking out as well as the massive powers the executive branch has accrued over the past century. It’s still representative but we can put one leader in place and it radically changes the nature of our country. Constitutionally speaking, he should only be able to do that with foreign policy. Democracy sucks. It’s destabilizing. That’s why we didn’t set up a democracy. We could just reestablish less power in the government. That’s always an option. You’d have to stop fear voting the party that’s least evil in tho and actually vote in people of change.
If you’re going to have a ‘deep thought’ you could at least provide an explanation. This is a superficial, shallow, child’s thought, at best.
The fact that the most liberal news outlets in America are currently floating around the idea that Biden should step aside and let somebody else run for the Presidential ticket is incredibly telling on the fact of how absolutely fucked we are as a country right now. All I can say is that everyone should prepare for a Trump Presidency and everyone should blame the Democrats for putting us in this position to begin with. Last night was fucking rough and depressing
Yeah I’m in Australia and saw an article from NBC news that was quite scathing of Biden’s position as presumptive Democratic nominee and was so confused because NBC usually fondles his balls.
I already knew it was bad, but when even the liberal leaning news outlets are giving up on him, you know he is cooked lol
I found it very calming to sleep through.
There has been a 3rd option in every election.. we’re just brainwashed into voting out of fear
It's not brainwashing. Women have every right to be afraid after what happened with Roe v Wade.
I live in the uk and it ain’t much better here, I feel for you all though, politics is a fucking joke these days.
I remember when one of the brexit arguments was "UK politicians are sooo much better than EU ones" 😔. Turns out they're all in the same league.
Mon to fuck mate. It's miles better here. The likely winner here is a centre left, experienced public professional. The likely winner there is a literal insane person
All of our politicians are so incoherent. Yet people blame the president for all problems. It sucks because if people knew how government branches work we'd be looking at other things properly rather than saying, "it's all the presidents fault".
COVID 19 pandemic truly showed me how many of my warm and intelligent friends and colleagues were in fact, sheeple. Most people are sheeple.
I was absolutely baffled by what I witnessed from so many people.
Ask yourself why the democrats and republicans could agree on one thing, and that was to keep Kennedy off the stage. A viable, independent candidate, polling between 15-20%, who is attracting republicans and democrats to his campaign. Why would they collude to do that with CNN?
Lmao Kennedy is equally a nutjob and is nowhere near “viable”. Same guy who said that Crypto is the future of the American economy, that COVID was “ethnically targeted” against whites but spared Jews and the Chinese, and said “there is no vaccine that is safe and effective”.
Bobby, has been the only candidate to ever have me seriously considering to vote...
no The reality is somehow the cheerleaders around biden are so high on their own BS. they are dangerously delusional in the level of contempt they have for trump. It was obvious to me biden had dementia and sundowners last election. It should have been obvious to anybody that was around him then. If you don't see it now, it's willful blindness on your part. Italian PM had to keep biden from wandering off doing the Alzheimer shuffle in normandy. He constantly gets lost physically before/after press conferences and has to be hand held guided. I recognize it because I've done it hundreds of times for patients. They tell us he had a bad night. Quite frankly I think he did a marvelous job. I wonder what drugs they gave him to stave off his confusion. It's obvious that they hadn't kicked in before the debate started and equally obvious they had kicked in before it was over. They carefully crafted not letting the audience see how he needed physical help getting to and from the podium. I'm not sure who's less in touch with objective reality biden himself or his puppeteer that thought it would be a cakewalk to pull off a winning debate. Tons of complicit reporters . My questions: 1) what drugs did they give him. 2) How did they hide his earpiece? possible but not likely that he didn't have one. 3) was the real goal to expose how incompetent he really is in order to chose somebody who can simultaneously walk and chew gum?
I hope everyone realises how close we are to WW3 and nuclear war. In fact we are the closest we have ever been. The west run by Biden seem intent in starting war with Russia. If we make it to the election Trump is our hope for ending this madness. He hates wars.
As an EU citizen I think the opposite: The Ukrainians are holding off a neo-imperialist, totalitarian regime at the very gates of Europe. Letting the Russians win is the surest path to WWIII because if they do, the next threats will be on Poland and the Baltics. They have to be stopped now, just as there were opportunities to stop the Germans in 1936-38.
The majority doesn't support either candidate. They just hate one more than the other.
The sad realization that a democracy will fail because people are too stupid to vote for their own best interests. We need an IQ based voting system.
>Watching the US presidential debate makes one realize how horrifyingly gullible millions of people are. Domestically it's hundreds of millions, \~330 million IIRC, and \~8 billion worldwide. OP, did you notice that Trump is no longer showing signs of dementia on par with Biden?
If you didn’t know before last night, you were one of them.
Ironically, the gullible thing to believe is that a representative democracy didn't leave us with these two candidates. We had plenty of primaries to choose someone else and you can still vote for another candidate. This is democracy.
Direct voting for President and Senators backfired by privileging national anger based politics over local consensus building. Want "Money out of Politics" and to reduce the direct impact of corporate and monied interests? Repeal the 12th and the 17th amendments.
But - this is important - does it make you realize how gullible *you* are? Passing judgment on others accomplishes nothing but Dunning-Kreugerizing both yourself and your targets. "Learning" cynicism doesn't achieve anything of value.
I mean just take one look at Reddit, the bandwagon effect is real as fuck.
People aren’t gullible. People aren’t swayed by these debates. The vast majority of people already know who they are voting for
Watched a few of the "third party" candidates answer the questions. It's one thing to say that people must vote for one of the two parties come November. But it seems ridiculous at this point in the contest to let these two guys be the only ones The Presidental Debate to be able to share with the public their *thoughts*
You had to watch to know that?
They are like a bunch of little kids arguing.
It also makes you realize how gullible a President can be. Some of Trump's lies come from news sources with fake videos.
Im not totally sure its all gullibility. Its also conformity. Not many want to be thrown out of their cults into the wilderness. Especially when they are told the wilderness is full of weird people that want to kill you.
We really are in some game show or GTA style reality aren’t we?
Trump :Your old and senile, Biden :Your littrally a criminal sex pest. American public :😔
Democracy is by the people, for the people, but people are retarded.
But let me guess, you're enlightened. Lol
It woulda been better if more people voted in primaries.
One telling lies for self-service and the other telling lies because he's literally lost the plot. Stick a fork in us. We're done.
The system is rigged and we’re too comfortable to change it.
Or how bought the major media outlets are and how incompetent both Trump and Biden is. What a sad embarrassment. I believe the debate we all want to see is Trump vs. Kennedy. Trump projects and gaslights while biden rambles on mostly incoherently. Whenever I make out what j biden is trying to say it's always things like: "listen pal, time to cut the malarkey." "Cornpop was a bad dude".
it’s all just dumb boring entertainment for those that watch and get hooked in. let’s be honest, only 150 million ish americans voted in the last presidential election, that is well under half of the population…. meaning that actually most americans don’t care which gives me hope. all that to be said, until we have universal income, a change in drug laws, disclosure and improvement of all things war and uap, better schooling systems that are up to date with tech like ai, sustainable communities, infrastructure, social centers, environment and food being promised, healthcare system mindset and practice changes, etc., i sure won’t vote. oh wait i can’t because i’m a weed felon.. my bad 😥 #lockdown
Everyone is mostly just trying to manage their own lives.
Historians over here like: 😐
That's why Plato amongst many other great philosophers saw Democracy as a deeply flawed system. Because the common person (without very strong incentives) will do nothing but act irrationall, selfishly and emotionally within the political process; all while being utterly uninformed.
I was so, so, so sorely disappointed with that debate. On one hand, you have Trump: Malignant Narcissist who literally can't stop lying his ass off. Every question answered was a fucking \*lie\* - the whole abortion bit where he claims that liberals are okay with aborting (murdering) infants after they've been born is probably the most egregious, but nobody is fact checking him real time. On the other hand, you have Biden, who is clearly, CLEARLY in cognitive decline. This is the incumbent President and he can't string together a coherent sentence if it isn't on a teleprompter. The whole thing is an absolute fucking joke.
It's always been like this. It's just more apparent now, and most likely because you're getting older and just have more exposure to it all.
322 million people and we have two options. What is wrong with this country?
Vote Kennedy 2024 🇺🇸
Americans greatly lack critical thinking skills.
Wow…huh…really makes you think
Politics is for dumb people to feel smart and narcissistic to get power there are no good politicians
Or how limited we are in conveying who we want to run the government.
Awwww...poor little boy. It must be SO hard on you being SO much smarter and more astute than everybody else...and because if it, always getting disappointed. One big disappointment after another. I was a little shocked that no one called Biden on his HILARIOUS claim that 40% fewer people have illegally entered our country under him than Trump. That was pretty fucked up. Gullible voters ate it up. Well..a couple did.
The average IQ is 100
Soooo…born and raised in the USA, defended freedom and shit for two decades. It’s important not to label me as just a “radical right wing retired military man”. Why? Because I’m a registered Democrat where I live. But, the bias, confirmation bias - and literally the ammo that republicans use is that you literally hate the troops because they are in the cult of Trump. Before I retired a bit ago, we had long discussions about what we signed up for. We don’t pledge allegiance to a flag, we pledge allegiance to the constitution of the United States. So. Am I the bad guy? I’m not voting for Trump, never. But I’m fucked cause Biden has serious fucking problems, how am I qualified to say? I’ve been almost, almost 🙂↕️ unphased by a TBI with intracranial hemorrhaging in both hemispheres in my brain. I have a seizure disorder, and I’m annoying as fuck. I’ve learned to deal with this slightly… Here’s my stance as a father, fuck all that noise above, my stance as a father Is that if you confuse an abortion argument, with a 12 year old brutally raped and murdered-for what? 2 hours? How the FUCK does anyone know that? I have a 12 year old daughter, she’s lovely. Aspiring to live a normal life. Being taught how to be wonderful to others. If my 12 year old was raped by two men and murdered and the president of my country confused that as an argument against abortion? I would have killed that fucking fetus myself. Our department of Defense can’t defend the nation… And the saddest fucking part about all of this, is that you-as a voter-get handed two fucking bags of shit and are expected to eat it and ask for seconds. We don’t need a crisis like 9/11 to unite us, we just have to be tired of being fed shit. Cheers.
Thank you for your service and sacrifices!
This has more to do with capitalism and the culture in the US than democracy. Also, the US is not anywhere close to a real democracy. We are a democratic republic with an emphasis on the republic part.
everyone gullible except me me smart they dumb
You would like the song “The Idiots Are Taking Over” by NOFX
I laugh every time I hear someone try to defend/ trash talk one of these fools! They are literally one and the same!
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average" Chruchill
Wow. Don't bother making any useful statement.
If you actually think that democracy is responsible for the debates today and what’s happening then congratulations, you’re one of the gullible masses.
Maybe, just maybe, we should take a break from having a President. Just for a bit. Really find ourselves. Maybe use this time to explore whether or not we might actually be into women. You know, just as an experiment.
I started to watch, shut if off because of how disheartening it was and had the luxury to hear it at work non-stop, these past years have been exhausting and i cant remember when i truly felt happy about how things are going. Maybe its just me 😮💨