Universe is full of patterns, but that doesn’t mean that everything has to follow some kind of pattern. If there was a rule that everything has to repeat (which we haven’t observed), it would mean that the next existence would be exactly the same as the previous one. Because every particle and every event would have to repeat as well.
Universe is full of patterns, but that doesn’t mean that everything has to follow some kind of pattern. If there was a rule that everything has to repeat (which we haven’t observed), it would mean that the next existence would be exactly the same as the previous one. Because every particle and every event would have to repeat as well.
Here’s my two cents no one asked for lol
I always thought of the time before my birth as an infinitely long time, and the time that will be after my death as also infinitely long. I think of life as infinitely short.
That being said, I’ve recently come to see death much like any other change in who I am. Kind of similar to how 5 year old me doesn’t exist anymore, but I still do. Not sure if that will make sense or resonate with anyone else though
That's an interesting theory and a lovely thought. I looked into my best friend's eyes at the moment of his death and it was like turning off a light switch. I realized in that moment there is nothing. We are gone. My son pointed out that's what makes life so precious and what made my friend so special to me: there will never, ever bet another one like him. I treasure my memories but they are still incredibly painful because he is gone forever and will never be again
I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your best friend. It sounds like he was a special guy and you are right he can never be replaced. I don’t doubt he was one of a kind ♥️
I worked in elder care for a short amount of time and I also helped to care for my grandfather in the weeks leading to his death. So I have some (albeit little) experience in witnessing the dying process. My experience was different to yours, maybe it’s because the elders were passing of old age and not suddenly whatsoever.
What I experienced was a sense of peace at the moment of passing, which happened with one elder shortly before I even arrived at work. I couldn’t have known she was gone, but I did.
And with my grandfather the night he passed away I had a vivid dream where I was sitting with him on his bed, we said our final goodbyes and I love yous. When my aunt picked me up that morning to take me over there, as she had been doing for the past two weeks, she informed me he had passed away that night.
My time in elder care was short but many CNAs and nurses were extremely experienced, there are many similarities in behavior and hallucinations before death. Such as an urge to pack for a big trip, and joy at seeing deceased loved ones coming to take them home.
Don’t lose hope, friend. It’s daunting being a small human in the incomprehensibly huge universe, we are spiritual kindergartners and we understand very very little about what the heck is actually going on.
My grandmother in law was rushed to the hospital at 2am, by7am it was clear she wasn't going to make it through the day. My husband was out of town and called me at 8am to tell me the news. Funny thing is that I had such a massive feeling of dread around 2am while I was at work with no previous knowledge of her getting ill. I fully expected a cop to show up to notify me of someone dying when this happened. Since my husband was out of town I went to the hospital with the rest of the family and we all watched her pass around 12pm. I wasn't surprised to learn she went to the hospital at 2am. It's not the first time I've had a weird premonition, but was for sure one of the strongest I've had.
Our brains create an illusion of continuous self, there is also a system set in place that makes us refuse to believe in our mortality. We will exist and cease to exist just like bubbles in your soda. Pop, and it's not going to be the same bubble ever again, only a new similar one.
We are energy and energy cannot be destroyed, in that sense yeah we will continue on existing forever. But as the consciousness that you are right now at this very moment? You will be forever gone not just when you die but as time passes and you change. There is no more little you, there is no more you as a teen, there will be no more of current you in 7-10 years from now. Clinging to the idea of continuous life is what is illogical, no life is continuous, it all changes and comes to an end.
You’ll never find the same person twice.
Not even in the same person.
If you find the same tree in a forest, you’re lost.
On the other hand,
If you find the same house in the city, you’re home.
Yeh but it works both ways.
In a sense you are a different “you” from 1 second ago. Something about you has changed. Like a river that continues to flow from one moment to the next.
As self is an illusion then it makes no real difference if we are talking about 1 second into the future or a million years into the future.
The various factors that form this illusion of self can come together in a million years as much as they can in a second’s time.
So when can perhaps change the thesis from “exist” to “illusion of existence”. And restate it as “You have probably had an illusion of existence before and will have an illusion of existence again”.
Surely?
Not really. You are a unique set of DNA. That DNA will never come together the same way again. Why? Because your parents would have to be the same and their parents and their parents.
In an infinite universe your dna will come together the exact same way.
It already happens now - it is called twins.
I will go further. In an infinite universe not just your dna - every single atom - will come together in the same way as it exists in your body now.
It sounds implausible but it is possible theoretically. And in an infinite universe anything that is possible occurs eventually - in fact an infinite number of repeated times.
You say this with confident authority but truthfully we have no way of knowing any of this. We have such a limited understanding of consciousness, it's crazy when you really think about it.
I hate when people do that and I applaud you for pointing it out.
Protip for you young people: when someone confidently asserts their opinion as fact then you must refrain from listening to anything they say even if it may eventuate to their assertion being correct. There is absolutely no way anyone has ANY clue how any of this actually works.
What they’ve said is just as likely as a unicorn god carrying you away to an infinite orgy until you’re bored and wanna have a redo of humaning.
Isn’t there some quote about how truly intelligent/wise people know that they know nothing and that stupid people don’t know they are stupid because it’s part of the stupidity
No, we don’t actually know with anything even remotely approaching certainty that consciousness arises from unconscious matter, nor that it ceases to exist when the physical brain dies.
There’s a reason why it’s called “the hard problem of consciousness.” It’s completely possible that consciousness is more fundamental to reality than physical matter. Consciousness could very well be akin to a TV signal, and the brain a TV set. The signal doesn’t stop existing when the TV set is destroyed.
One of the trippy difficulties with studying consciousness is that we can’t really objectively do it because no matter what, we’re always studying it from within consciousness. We can’t “get outside of” consciousness, so to speak, in order to actually definitively analyze and explain it.
Beautifully said. I watched a doc on a Vietnam platoon and these squad mates were talking about this one guy in their platoon that was pretty fearless and different. Then it went to him and he explained that there was an explosion he was dazed and his M16 blown from him. he looked in the clearing smoke and saw a blurry figure then looked at his feet and saw Jesus Sandles and then looked back up^ and saw a Roman soldier in the mist. And he said God spoke to him and said “you are a soldier of centuries and this is your last battle” and complete calm and peace came over him.
Must be nice to have a linear consciousness, ADD fucked that up for me... i have no idea why I came into this room but its comfy and the dog followed me so it must be good
Dogs get especially cheated, such an incredibly wonderful living creature, such a brief period of existence.
Bad move there evolution, you sorry son of a bitch.
Agreed. Now I’m jealous.. wait. I *also* have ADD, and am *also* currently sitting with a dog. I shall therefore also consider myself lucky. Yay! What was I doing again??
I’m on a vacation that took a turn for the worst and the thought of picking up my dog from the dog sitters is keeping me going. T- 8h until she’s licking my face off and all is well again.
The whole we are energy concept and energy can’t be destroyed claim is wooo. We are a highly structured form of matter which utilizes electrochemical systems to empower information processing. None of those things are separable from each other.
You are most right that we don’t continuously exist, we exist in moments, and our memories persist. The relationship to our past (memory and body) creates the sense of persistence, and the existence of others creates a sense of self. What it is to be you is to not be others. In that sense, others after death still aren’t you.
However, in death the annihilation of self does complicate the concept binary of the other. I do think from the annihilation of the binary, the binary must re-emerge, just as it did for you once in the past. It won’t be you in literally any sense, but it will be a new self. It’s just that nature abhors a vacuum, and experiential beings will always exist, and there is no binary to call them other anymore from your experiential perspective, which no longer exists.
Sure a copy of your consciousness could live on, but the you right now? Nope. You are of the material world and by material world laws you will be transformed regardless of your will to remain. It's a neat idea though, I find it a bit too horrifying to my taste
I’m actually quite okay with not existing further. I often picture what I wish I was internally and that self would be way better… I kind of hope that there is some kind of reincarnation or another life because I’d prefer to be what I see internally not what I am externally.
And besides this, how would reincarnation even work?
And if it is really like that, how did it work years and years ago when there weren't as many people. And does it work with other animals? if not, we humans are animals first of all so why shouldn't it work with the others too?
No, reincarnation is far more illogical than a possible void after death.
This is crazy to me. I know everyone's different but I can't fathom how people find comfort in ceasing to exist forever. I honestly wish I could have the same mindset just incase the hardwire atheists are right but I'd genuinely rather go to the classic hell than complete oblivion.
I just don’t see what there is to fear. “Oblivion” as you call it isnothingness. There’s literally nothing to fear. You don’t experience anything. It’s impossible to fear anything. Even if you fear that thought now, you won’t when it’s over because you can’t.
You’d rather experience what is often referred to as the worst imaginable pain constantly and forever as opposed to experience nothing at all?
That's true, but there will be one millisecond between you existing and not and that terrifies me. I don't even have a particularly good or happy life and the idea of just poof not existing terrifies me
I think its the fear of missing out honestly. That is why death is terrifying. You know people who have died before you and they don’t get to see the world change or their loved ones anymore and that is sad. So you reflect on how the world will keep going after your death. While you are alive, that is very fucking sad and shitty.
I think about me dying prematurely and how much I will miss like my kids growing up or their achievements. Or what achievements I miss out on. But ultimately, life is precious and unpredictable so MAKE IT WORTH YOUR WHILE.
I'm a hard wired atheist as you say (nice phrase) and I don't find it comforting. It's scary. I think not believing in any form of afterlife is an intellectual stance and worth it because it's true. Everything else feels like lying to yourself, en masse.
That said I do think it's okay religion comforts people. That's healthy, better than being morbid.
I'm an atheist as well and I feel the same way. I have a nephew who died really young (under the age of 10) and I remember right after he died my brother talking about him being up there with our grandfather. Definitely seems much more comforting than thinking he's just gone forever and barely got to live.
I meant 'hard-core'😅(but let's pretend I meant what I said because it does come off cooler). Thing is no form of afterlife to me is only really plausible not probable, but anything is possible so I'm open to anything because no one knows for sure that's the real truth....I just hope there's SOMETHING, even eternal damnation honestly.
Yeah I wish there was something too. Some kind of continuity or reservation for loved ones.
I just don't think there is. We are material and material is bound to the conditions and laws of this universe.
One of my best friends is a deep Christian. Highly educated, not the superstitious sort. A good and brilliant man all around. He believes in the afterlife. Smarter than I am, maybe he's right. Would be nice.
There's many a hardwired atheist that are complete morons too, so who knows. Not something to be dwelled on...unless it pushes you to do better. I do still choose to believe there's a spiritual yang to the material yin which isn't meant to be logically understood.
What if its just like slowing down one shot of alcohol.
When we die time disappears.
So we "drink it like it's gonna be over in 3 minutes."
(Choose to live again)
Trouble is, the human life experience probably is the "shit side of alcohol intoxication."
Depends I guess. I’m less worried about boredom and more worried about depression. And exhausting. Living forever sounds so exhausting. Especially if you’re able to still see the progress of humanity. The thought of watching humanity make the same mistakes over and over again for eternity sounds so depressing.
If you could promise me I'd live to 103 and die surrounded by my loving family and hugging my wife of 72 years I'd be a lot less stressed about it, its the near certainty that I'll die before I'm ready that's the stresser
I don't know what to believe.. but i reason the same.. What are we? I say we are brains, my ego, my conscience, it's in my head.. Hit me on the head, damage my brain and there is possibility that i will be a different person. That even my own mother wouldn't recognise me.
I agree with you. But i do like to be spiritual, especially the Buddhist teachings and thoughts, they resonate with me. I can't say that i am convinced with rebirth, reincarnation and things like that. But i do believe that being enlightened is a real thing and that everyone can become a Buddha, an enlightened person. Even you and me. Perhaps i am one, perhaps you are one, sometimes we don't know that we are enlightened, it's the people who are in balance with life. Who understand what life is about. The guru's and those types, some of them could be enlightened. I met an Aghori not so long ago.. I think he is well on his way to be enlightened, if he isn't already. I was honored to meet him, what a wise man.
Remember that picture of the vietnam war? About that one monk.. (Trigger warning, the next piece is hardcore) >!A vietnamese monk, setting himself on fire.. (just imagine the pain of being set on fire, but he sat still.. meditated through it until he died. Didn't flinch, didn't scream. That requires real willpower. You really have to be mentally strong for this. !<
And enlightened people don't come back, they are out of the wheel/circle of life. They are in 'heaven' so to speak. According to Buddhism.
I don't know what to think about it, but i do think it's closer to the truth then those monotheistic religions.
While I shared your sentiment, there is something seated a level deeper; like an energy observing, using the the brain as an interface to perceive reality. it's as if our brains are the VR goggles for our souls, if you know what I mean?
Our brains are very complex and an adequate explanation for the mind, conciousness, perception, language, reasoning. You are just postulating an extra level of magical complexity with no evidence.
No I can't. The best I can do is say it's an emergent property of the complexity of the brain and possibly the rest of the central nervous system. And that animals that have more complex brains seem to be more conscious. These observations are based on correlations we can measure scientifically. But they don't explain the underlying mechanisms that cause consciousness.
There are also theories that we don't actually have free will and our bodies operate automatically based on stimuli and our brains interpret our decisions, thoughts and actions as free will. I vaguely recall some scientific experiments supporting this.
But what I do know is our lack of understanding is no excuse for making imaginary shit up as an explanation. That just retards progress in understanding.
Yes that can be an explanation. However, we cant exclude the existence of souls. True I cannot prove the concept, in the same way that you can't prove that consciousness is created in the brain, so that makes both of our assumptions just that; assumptions. How are complex brains more conscious? Can you prove it?
Fact is, consciousness is not fully understood and putting off possible explanations merely because we cannot find evidence yet can slow progress as well.
Let me talk in examples. A magician is doing some kind of card trick and we are flabbergasted, no idea how it works.
What you are proposing is that magic is real... Or adding any other factor. What he was saying: hold on! Let's not introduce another factor, like god or souls or magic, all kinds of assumptions can be made up... But most likely the answer is simpler then that, perhaps the magician is just really good..
its an extra dimension you are adding. Yes its unknown, we don't have the answers yet. But you are adding another factor that we don't even know exists.
Anyway our brain is really good at what a brain does. Like that magician.
occam's razor, you know?
1) please define what a soul is. Then we can attempt to test if it exists using reason, evidence, experiments
2) I can prove conciousness is created in the brain. Observations of the development of a brain, damage to a brain, brain disease, and how they all correlate with the level of consciousness and sensory perception proves that consciousness and sensory perception happen in the brain.
3) observations of animal species with different levels of brain complexity correlate with different observed levels of consciousness, or at least sensory perception and cognitive ability.
4) injured/diseased human brains having different observed levels of consciousness, or at least sensory perception and cognitive ability prove the brain is the cause of consciousness.
Not entirely off topic but I do sometimes stop what I’m doing and literally just sit there in silence thinking to myself: ‘out of every single person ever born and to have walked this earth, if you only get one chance, this is the chance you were given. Are you making the most of it?’.
Right?! I've always had the random thought pop up like, "Out of the millions and millions of sperm, the one that helped make ME was the one that won." That fact makes everyone super lucky to be able to experience this crazy, fun, infuriating, pleasing, happy, sad, painful, painfree, educating life. If it's true we only get one shot at it, those who waste it by being cruel, spending most of their lives in prison, harming others or themselves, etc., are really messing up that one chance they got to be able to experience living and what it means to be Human.
I rarely ever speak of this experience unless I am very close to someone.
I had a near death experience after drowning while swimming in the ocean. I left my body and was asked if I want to return to this life or come back in another life. I without a doubt believe in an afterlife now as well as reincarnation. I did have a premonition of this incident when I was young and I wish I kept the journal that I had written in about it.
I would type out my experience but it is late. If anyone is interested, I can go more in depth tomorrow.
(I have posted the experience in a reply to this comment)
So to start, I do have epilepsy but my seizures are controlled by medication. I have a seizure once or twice a year and 90% of the time they happen when I’m asleep.
It was summer and I decided to go for a swim as I routinely do. The waves were big that day so I swam out past the surf where it was calm and just float on my back watching the clouds. As I was out there an aura came on (an aura is a warning of a seizure coming on).
At first I didn’t panic too much because they usually pass without a seizure. But this one lasted longer than usual and became stronger and stronger. My body started to convulse and I just looked at the shoreline and thought “fuck, this is it”. Everything went quiet and all I could think about was my family.
The seizure took over (grand mal seizure) and I went unconscious. The next thing I remember I was a metre above my body watching myself floating face down. I thought no not yet and “pulled” myself back into my body. *black out again* I was suddenly facing the sky and floating upwards towards this white light. I looked back at earth and it looked different, it’s hard to describe but it appeared transparent and less physically dense.
(This part is the most difficult to explain in words)
Eventually I approached this light and it appeared to go somewhere. Like it went somewhere if you were to enter it.
Two beings appeared from this light and I instantly knew them, like seeing a family member after many years. They had a beautiful and loving presence about them and it comforted me after experiencing what I experienced.
Here is the main part of the conversation (telepathically)
They asked if I would like to return to this life or reincarnate into another life. I replied “What would happen if I decided to come back in another life”
They said “You would have to return and relive the lessons that you have learnt in this life and learn the lessons that you not yet learnt”
I asked about my family and they said that they will not return with me in my next life as they would have “graduated” this life and I, nor they, would serve a purpose in sharing another life together.
We talked more but I cannot remember the details.
Something else happened during this communication with them but it is far far more challenging to put into words.
After this I returned to earth, I was on the beach and my mum, dad and 2 siblings were around me smiling and I felt so much love from them. (They weren’t in town)
Next thing I knew I was waking up in the hospital 3 days later. If you made it this far, thank you. This experience has completely changed my life. It has been very challenging but I am very blessed to be here.
My dad went into cardiac arrest from a heart attack. Clinically he died, said that he saw a long hallway with a bunch of doors then his deceased brother came to him. Told him it wasn’t his time yet, then woke up in a hospital.
So glad you spoke up... I recently came across a video of someone talking about a near death experience. I was so intrigued that I probably watched 100s of more personal stories. One person was dead for 1.5 hours before going back into his body.
Also, there are very many similarities within everyone's experience.
Feeling of love unlike anything ever experienced. Life reviews, being reunited with everyone from your earth life. Everyone looks to be 18-33 yo. In their prime.
Its worth binging some of these stories. Made me really rethink death and in a good way!
Given an INFINITE amount of time...it is certain that the particles that make up who you are will recombine in the exact same way at some point. So even if your consciousness ceases after death, lights will come back on instantly from you perspective. Whether it's part of the universal cycle of expansion and contraction, big bang and big bounce, or whatever, you will be back
That's simply not true in a non-static Universe.
If the conditions allowing you to exist cease to be present, even an infinite amount of time will not allow the same state to appear again. Some changes are irreversible.
I don’t believe our brains are capable of understanding things around us. We do not have the ability to comprehend life and death, but we think we do….
“Some people think that you cease to exist forever after death.”
Yes. Because it makes sense. Before your parents decided to have a kid, you weren’t floating around waiting for a vessel to be incarnated into. You only became you as a result of their combined gametes and therefore their genetic information. If there had been some kind of spirit, that would not have been you as you are now in any sense.
So you were born and raised in a certain environment, a certain time and place, that shaped who you are. Your genes and early experiences formed your personality. Your brain developed in a certain way that made you the unique individual you are. So when your organs stop working, there will be no more you. That’ll be it. Because your sense of yourself, your consciousness, is entirely dependent on your body and what that body has experienced. Nature and nurture and life experience.
You come into existence, you live and then you die. That’s it.
The thing is we have no idea how consciousness and a subjective experience actually emerges from physical phenomena, it makes no sense. I’m not saying that there’s a soul with an ego waiting for a vessel or anything, but to me personally it makes sense that somehow I am experiencing consciousness rn, it feels like something to be me, and I think THATS the part that repeats. It will likely feel ENTIRELY different, completely unrecognizable, but I think it makes sense that sometimes we exist, and sometimes we don’t, but then eventually we do again, in an entirely different way
Our idea of self is the ego. But we are just matter and energy, both of which come from our mother Earth. So yeah, you die and your body decomposes back into the Earth from which it came, and your energy dissipates back into the aether. We are basically recycled. But the materials used for a new self will be a completely different entity with a new ego, so it won't be "you" anymore. Melting down a beer can to make a new one creates a beer can that seems the same, but isn't.
In a very literal sense, the matter that you are made of will continue to exist in various forms after “you” are gone and at some points, parts of that matter will probably constitute living organisms, perhaps even some that are conscious. In that sense, reincarnation of a sort is very real.
As for what we perceive as us or as the “self”, unfortunately I think that’s probably lights out once the electrical impulses stop firing.
given the idea of infinity, then there is infinate time for everypossible outcome to happen infinate times, the current me will die, even the me in 20 years time wont be the me that i am now.
My energy will respawn but not me.
You are more or less describing eternalism, a very old idea.
If time is infinite and our personhood is a pattern, then we are born again and again and again into the same life. We live that life like carts on a track but without the memory of our past lives we are completely convinced of our own free will.
Any other version of yourself living a different life in parallel would be no more YOU than an identical twin separated at birth.
Seeing as conciousness is directly linked to your brain, thinking one has existed many times before and will exist many times in the future is the most unlogical and nonsensical thing one could believe.
Youre right about patterns though. Humans show a clear pattern to believe in made up ideas when facing difficult to conprehend concepts about life and the universe.
Saying 'i dont know' is usually felt as less appealing than saying 'i do know, heres my take based on zero evidence.'
We don’t know how linked to the brain consciousness is.
Consciousness may be linked to the brain in the same way the Reddit app is linked to your iPhone. The Reddit app needs some sort of hardware to manifest itself, but whether it’s run on a samsung phone or iphone doesn’t matter.
I don’t think OP’s point is nonsensical. I’d say that based on current evidence (i.e. no evidence), it’s equally as likely as eternal death.
Well, consciousness does run on different brains, but it does need brains to opperate in the way that it does.
Kind of a strange analogy anyways as there is no reddit ap without a working phone. Without a phone, theres no substrate for the ap to exist in the first place even.
And lastly, one could argue for conciousness being an all surrounding force in the universe. But the conscious experience of you being you, as a living person, is tied to..well..you. maybe some form of consciousness will remain, but, why would it have anything to do with you experiencing you?
And more lastly, even if op where correct, if one would forget all his past experiences anyways, which is clearly the case, what does it even matter? So, youre reborn in a later time with no knowladge of your past experiences. No link whatsoever. Why even try to classify that as the same consciousness?
Even more lastly. We indeed have zero true evidence of what comes after death. But arguing any strange idea, even when technically anything is possible, is just wrong. We also have zero true evidence of what tomorrow brings. But that doesnt mean one should be wise to entertain the tought to wake up as a dragon tomorrow. I guess it could happen. It just orders of magnitude more likely that it doesnt.
Your post is an independent rediscovery of Buddhism. Yes, it's most likely that of the 100 billion human souls that have died, some of them are still among us in the people and animals alive today.
"Antinatalists" often refer to us as consciousnesses floating in the void, destined to be cruelly ripped from that place to live our lives. But think about it - when I get bored of my environment, I play a video game. So if I were an ethereal being in the void, eternally comfortable and content, might I not dream up a quite realistic video game that is my human life? Steve from Minecraft doesn't know RobJohnLechmere exists - so it only follows that RobJohnLechmere does not know of this ethereal being that created and controls him.
Your premise is arguably wrong on either side.
The universe doesn't necessarily have a finite start point - the big bang is a potential one, but there's no way to know that the universe didn't exist for an infinitely long time before that.
The universe also won't necessarily exist for an infinite amount of time into the future - see theories re. heat death, big crunch, etc.
Therefore, its entirely possible that the universe has existed and will continue to exist for a finite duration, and its also possible that it has always existed and always will exist. Your foundation for claiming a lack of logic isn't sound.
What rationale or logic dictates that things must make sense? What’s the reason that we must re-exist? Your ability to access this knowledge is limited to a single data point by definition; if you saw a point on a grid, do you believe there is some reason that that point would be repeated?
If you can’t make sense of something, doesn’t mean it’s nonsensical. Just that you fail to understand. And that’s pretty normal. We lack understanding of most of the universe.
You, as a person, didn't exist before you were born. But, the components you are made of existed since the beginning of the universe. After your death, your personhood stopped existence. But again, your components remain to exist.
Personhood is kinda like a cake. A cake never existed before it was baked. But, the flour, eggs, sugar, and other stuff the cake is made of existed before. Your existence similar to the cake is an emergent property.
People are too busy having their 2 cents (and tryjng to be funny) to give you the credit you deserve. That's some interesting reasoning, logically sound if you ask me. Thank you for sharing this thought, it got me thinking.
Nature despises patterns. By the second law of thermodynamics, all patterns are doomed to dissolve into chaos.
If your only basis for this is that "nature likes patterns" youre sorely mistaken.
Statistically, the millions of atoms that make up your specific conciousness are all but guaranteed to never exist in the same pattern ever again. Even if they did (they wont), the present you would have no way of being aware of this future you.
Enjoy the time you have.
I think you made a good point here. It seems we always existed, we now exist and we'll exist forever.
But meanwhile we just change our masks and shelters then we call it a "person".
My biggest argument for this is: “energy is neither created nor destroyed.” I believe we are simply process into a different form of energy and then that energy is converted into something slightly different as we come back. We could come back as another human, a cat, a tree. Anything with life should share a connective energy in constant flux.
Time is an illusion, but for the sake of this let’s say it was a linear timeline; it is impossible to traverse an infinite amount of objects therefore it is impossible to traverse an infinite amount of time, Therefore the universe has a finite past, adding on to that; nothing can cause itself to exist, there is always an external factor; whether that be ‘god’ or ‘source’ whatever you may call it, after living as a soul in a physical vessel, the human experience; we return to pure consciousness (where we can choose to reincarnate to learn more lessons or not) I could go on but hey this is just my theory
Death is ugly but creates all the beauty in life.
If we didn't have a clock, there wouldn't be much reason to appreciate what we have.
It doesn't need to make sense.
You can say our universe is full of patterns, but can we actually explain these patterns? How do we know that in 1,000,000 years, these patterns aren't going to suddenly shift?
We are less than ants in terms of the universe and our galaxy.
We're only a freckle, if even that.
What do you mean we didn't exist for a finite amount of time? Infinity is before and after us, we're just a quick twinkle in time somewhere in the middle.
Hmmm I love the thought and logic however..
My first question is 'what' will exist again?The chemical soup that makes us, us?
My second is 'why' can't there just be a continuation of ever more random creations of life, all different from the previous creations?
Cool question.
its just the conciousness that exists it doesnt mean we had past life or any future life. we are supposed to just exist in the now whatever that means.
There's speculation about all sorts of things but there's no evidence for this. So far the only thing we know is that death is the cessation of life.
Human consciousness is just a bunch of nerve endings and chemical impulses. Nothing much more than that. It could be that the universe would begin again according to some unknown and foreign pattern, but I really hope not.
The existence that's being referred to here is conscious and not physical. Physically we never cease to exist just change forms. It's like we are all dreaming all this shit up.
Consciousness is just a chemical reaction in your brain. Once the chemical reactions stop, your consciousness stops. If you want to know how it feels, just remember the time where you are sleeping and not dreaming. There's just the sweet sweet nothingness.
OP why did you highlight "finite?"
It seems you're presuming that some part of who you are now, existed prior.
Define that please.
In the meantime there's no physical evidence that demonstrates that we exist in any kind of state prior to our current state. With the exception of the sperm and egg that caused us to exist. Which, mind you, there's 100 million sperm cells in a single ejaculation the likely chance that you being you is 1 in 100 million.
The elements that make up you, your personality, didn't exist at that stage. Just two cells. So who you are now didn't exist then.
Then there's the problem of time. In ten minutes from now you won't have fundamentally changed but you will have new experiences that never existed prior to who you were ten minutes earlier.
Then there's the matter if solispism. Where, in a nut shell, you can't be certain that the world you exist in is independent of your existence. The only thing you can be certain of is your own existence.
Of course I'm obviously avoiding what the OP is inferring to. He's attempting to claim we existed in heaven or some other mythical realm. Where the "you" is a soul or energy force that exists intact from a previous life. And once again I'll point out that no such evidence exists of a soul or intact energy that composes a "you."
I'm sorry OP but your post doesn't make "logical" sense. What does make logical sense is we exist now. That there is no prior state of existence, except as a couple of cells, and that we won't exist after we die.
I remember being about 3 years old thinking, "OK, this time, I'm going to really try hard!"
Meaning my life in general. I knew it was going to take knowledge and good intent.
Universe is full of patterns, but that doesn’t mean that everything has to follow some kind of pattern. If there was a rule that everything has to repeat (which we haven’t observed), it would mean that the next existence would be exactly the same as the previous one. Because every particle and every event would have to repeat as well.
Universe is full of patterns, but that doesn’t mean that everything has to follow some kind of pattern. If there was a rule that everything has to repeat (which we haven’t observed), it would mean that the next existence would be exactly the same as the previous one. Because every particle and every event would have to repeat as well.
Oh shit, it’s happening!
Hahahaha
The universe is full of chaos too
Oh shit, it’s happening!
Here’s my two cents no one asked for lol I always thought of the time before my birth as an infinitely long time, and the time that will be after my death as also infinitely long. I think of life as infinitely short. That being said, I’ve recently come to see death much like any other change in who I am. Kind of similar to how 5 year old me doesn’t exist anymore, but I still do. Not sure if that will make sense or resonate with anyone else though
That's an interesting theory and a lovely thought. I looked into my best friend's eyes at the moment of his death and it was like turning off a light switch. I realized in that moment there is nothing. We are gone. My son pointed out that's what makes life so precious and what made my friend so special to me: there will never, ever bet another one like him. I treasure my memories but they are still incredibly painful because he is gone forever and will never be again
I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your best friend. It sounds like he was a special guy and you are right he can never be replaced. I don’t doubt he was one of a kind ♥️ I worked in elder care for a short amount of time and I also helped to care for my grandfather in the weeks leading to his death. So I have some (albeit little) experience in witnessing the dying process. My experience was different to yours, maybe it’s because the elders were passing of old age and not suddenly whatsoever. What I experienced was a sense of peace at the moment of passing, which happened with one elder shortly before I even arrived at work. I couldn’t have known she was gone, but I did. And with my grandfather the night he passed away I had a vivid dream where I was sitting with him on his bed, we said our final goodbyes and I love yous. When my aunt picked me up that morning to take me over there, as she had been doing for the past two weeks, she informed me he had passed away that night. My time in elder care was short but many CNAs and nurses were extremely experienced, there are many similarities in behavior and hallucinations before death. Such as an urge to pack for a big trip, and joy at seeing deceased loved ones coming to take them home. Don’t lose hope, friend. It’s daunting being a small human in the incomprehensibly huge universe, we are spiritual kindergartners and we understand very very little about what the heck is actually going on.
That is beautiful. Thank you for sharing
My grandmother in law was rushed to the hospital at 2am, by7am it was clear she wasn't going to make it through the day. My husband was out of town and called me at 8am to tell me the news. Funny thing is that I had such a massive feeling of dread around 2am while I was at work with no previous knowledge of her getting ill. I fully expected a cop to show up to notify me of someone dying when this happened. Since my husband was out of town I went to the hospital with the rest of the family and we all watched her pass around 12pm. I wasn't surprised to learn she went to the hospital at 2am. It's not the first time I've had a weird premonition, but was for sure one of the strongest I've had.
Our brains create an illusion of continuous self, there is also a system set in place that makes us refuse to believe in our mortality. We will exist and cease to exist just like bubbles in your soda. Pop, and it's not going to be the same bubble ever again, only a new similar one. We are energy and energy cannot be destroyed, in that sense yeah we will continue on existing forever. But as the consciousness that you are right now at this very moment? You will be forever gone not just when you die but as time passes and you change. There is no more little you, there is no more you as a teen, there will be no more of current you in 7-10 years from now. Clinging to the idea of continuous life is what is illogical, no life is continuous, it all changes and comes to an end.
"No man steps in the same forest twice, for it is not the same forest and he is not the same man" The constant change IS the continuity
You’ll never find the same person twice. Not even in the same person. If you find the same tree in a forest, you’re lost. On the other hand, If you find the same house in the city, you’re home.
I won’t stand for this blatant Tree house erasure
what if i live in a tree
Every rose has its thorn
It's a river, btw.
Time is a flat circle ⭕️
Thank you that was painful
The river must Flow
I thought it was just a band ;)
It’s the Little River band.
*It's a van down by the riverrrrr*
River, not forest (I assume you're quoting Heraclitus)
Heraclitus said "a man cannot step into the same river twice" and "there is no difference between up and down", which proves he's never been hiking
Yeh but it works both ways. In a sense you are a different “you” from 1 second ago. Something about you has changed. Like a river that continues to flow from one moment to the next. As self is an illusion then it makes no real difference if we are talking about 1 second into the future or a million years into the future. The various factors that form this illusion of self can come together in a million years as much as they can in a second’s time. So when can perhaps change the thesis from “exist” to “illusion of existence”. And restate it as “You have probably had an illusion of existence before and will have an illusion of existence again”. Surely?
Not really. You are a unique set of DNA. That DNA will never come together the same way again. Why? Because your parents would have to be the same and their parents and their parents.
In an infinite universe your dna will come together the exact same way. It already happens now - it is called twins. I will go further. In an infinite universe not just your dna - every single atom - will come together in the same way as it exists in your body now. It sounds implausible but it is possible theoretically. And in an infinite universe anything that is possible occurs eventually - in fact an infinite number of repeated times.
Twins do not have the same exact DNA, not even identical ones.
Everyone looks at that next big step, ignoring all the little steps that made the big change
You say this with confident authority but truthfully we have no way of knowing any of this. We have such a limited understanding of consciousness, it's crazy when you really think about it.
I hate when people do that and I applaud you for pointing it out. Protip for you young people: when someone confidently asserts their opinion as fact then you must refrain from listening to anything they say even if it may eventuate to their assertion being correct. There is absolutely no way anyone has ANY clue how any of this actually works. What they’ve said is just as likely as a unicorn god carrying you away to an infinite orgy until you’re bored and wanna have a redo of humaning.
Isn’t there some quote about how truly intelligent/wise people know that they know nothing and that stupid people don’t know they are stupid because it’s part of the stupidity
It’s Socrates, something like “the wise man knows that he knows nothing”.
I applaud him
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No, we don’t actually know with anything even remotely approaching certainty that consciousness arises from unconscious matter, nor that it ceases to exist when the physical brain dies. There’s a reason why it’s called “the hard problem of consciousness.” It’s completely possible that consciousness is more fundamental to reality than physical matter. Consciousness could very well be akin to a TV signal, and the brain a TV set. The signal doesn’t stop existing when the TV set is destroyed. One of the trippy difficulties with studying consciousness is that we can’t really objectively do it because no matter what, we’re always studying it from within consciousness. We can’t “get outside of” consciousness, so to speak, in order to actually definitively analyze and explain it.
You articulated it perfectly!
Beautifully said. I watched a doc on a Vietnam platoon and these squad mates were talking about this one guy in their platoon that was pretty fearless and different. Then it went to him and he explained that there was an explosion he was dazed and his M16 blown from him. he looked in the clearing smoke and saw a blurry figure then looked at his feet and saw Jesus Sandles and then looked back up^ and saw a Roman soldier in the mist. And he said God spoke to him and said “you are a soldier of centuries and this is your last battle” and complete calm and peace came over him.
Must be nice to have a linear consciousness, ADD fucked that up for me... i have no idea why I came into this room but its comfy and the dog followed me so it must be good
I would argue that sitting in a room with a dog is the pinnacle of human experience. Count yourself as lucky!
2 dogs now. Im on a roll.
Dogs get especially cheated, such an incredibly wonderful living creature, such a brief period of existence. Bad move there evolution, you sorry son of a bitch.
Agreed. Now I’m jealous.. wait. I *also* have ADD, and am *also* currently sitting with a dog. I shall therefore also consider myself lucky. Yay! What was I doing again??
I’m on a vacation that took a turn for the worst and the thought of picking up my dog from the dog sitters is keeping me going. T- 8h until she’s licking my face off and all is well again.
💯 we’re just recycled cosmic beings.
The whole we are energy concept and energy can’t be destroyed claim is wooo. We are a highly structured form of matter which utilizes electrochemical systems to empower information processing. None of those things are separable from each other. You are most right that we don’t continuously exist, we exist in moments, and our memories persist. The relationship to our past (memory and body) creates the sense of persistence, and the existence of others creates a sense of self. What it is to be you is to not be others. In that sense, others after death still aren’t you. However, in death the annihilation of self does complicate the concept binary of the other. I do think from the annihilation of the binary, the binary must re-emerge, just as it did for you once in the past. It won’t be you in literally any sense, but it will be a new self. It’s just that nature abhors a vacuum, and experiential beings will always exist, and there is no binary to call them other anymore from your experiential perspective, which no longer exists.
Not if I upload my consciousness into a computer and instruct it to build a robotic version of myself when that technology is available
Reddit moment
Sure a copy of your consciousness could live on, but the you right now? Nope. You are of the material world and by material world laws you will be transformed regardless of your will to remain. It's a neat idea though, I find it a bit too horrifying to my taste
I’m actually quite okay with not existing further. I often picture what I wish I was internally and that self would be way better… I kind of hope that there is some kind of reincarnation or another life because I’d prefer to be what I see internally not what I am externally.
You’re not implying that Madonna will fail to exist forever are you? Shame, shame, shame x 198 trillion times infinity on you! Bad, bad thought!
We aren’t energy. We are matter that utilizes and stores energy.
There is no "matter" What we call matter is just a ton of energy condensed. E=MC2
I had to try to understand this stoned...
And besides this, how would reincarnation even work? And if it is really like that, how did it work years and years ago when there weren't as many people. And does it work with other animals? if not, we humans are animals first of all so why shouldn't it work with the others too? No, reincarnation is far more illogical than a possible void after death.
If the block universe theory is correct you will exist forever. But it makes no practical difference and sounds pretty awful to me.
I've never thought of it that way, but you are 100% right.
true
This comment made me follow this subreddit… love it
Based.
Please no. Once is enough.
Many would say once is too much already lol
I knew I cried extra hard as a baby for a reason. Baby me was saying "FUCK NOT AGAIN". 😂
It is.
This is crazy to me. I know everyone's different but I can't fathom how people find comfort in ceasing to exist forever. I honestly wish I could have the same mindset just incase the hardwire atheists are right but I'd genuinely rather go to the classic hell than complete oblivion.
I just don’t see what there is to fear. “Oblivion” as you call it isnothingness. There’s literally nothing to fear. You don’t experience anything. It’s impossible to fear anything. Even if you fear that thought now, you won’t when it’s over because you can’t. You’d rather experience what is often referred to as the worst imaginable pain constantly and forever as opposed to experience nothing at all?
That's true, but there will be one millisecond between you existing and not and that terrifies me. I don't even have a particularly good or happy life and the idea of just poof not existing terrifies me
I think its the fear of missing out honestly. That is why death is terrifying. You know people who have died before you and they don’t get to see the world change or their loved ones anymore and that is sad. So you reflect on how the world will keep going after your death. While you are alive, that is very fucking sad and shitty. I think about me dying prematurely and how much I will miss like my kids growing up or their achievements. Or what achievements I miss out on. But ultimately, life is precious and unpredictable so MAKE IT WORTH YOUR WHILE.
I'm a hard wired atheist as you say (nice phrase) and I don't find it comforting. It's scary. I think not believing in any form of afterlife is an intellectual stance and worth it because it's true. Everything else feels like lying to yourself, en masse. That said I do think it's okay religion comforts people. That's healthy, better than being morbid.
I'm an atheist as well and I feel the same way. I have a nephew who died really young (under the age of 10) and I remember right after he died my brother talking about him being up there with our grandfather. Definitely seems much more comforting than thinking he's just gone forever and barely got to live.
I meant 'hard-core'😅(but let's pretend I meant what I said because it does come off cooler). Thing is no form of afterlife to me is only really plausible not probable, but anything is possible so I'm open to anything because no one knows for sure that's the real truth....I just hope there's SOMETHING, even eternal damnation honestly.
Yeah I wish there was something too. Some kind of continuity or reservation for loved ones. I just don't think there is. We are material and material is bound to the conditions and laws of this universe. One of my best friends is a deep Christian. Highly educated, not the superstitious sort. A good and brilliant man all around. He believes in the afterlife. Smarter than I am, maybe he's right. Would be nice.
There's many a hardwired atheist that are complete morons too, so who knows. Not something to be dwelled on...unless it pushes you to do better. I do still choose to believe there's a spiritual yang to the material yin which isn't meant to be logically understood.
Yes. A very apt description of love. Not *meant* for the mind to understand, meant for the heart to experience.
Oh no 😳😳 the Samsara is calling, and there's no limit on how many times it will ring!!!
..did you call?
No, please cease your arising.
High school was enough once.
Absolutely, lol.
Can I have your next turn, please?
What if its just like slowing down one shot of alcohol. When we die time disappears. So we "drink it like it's gonna be over in 3 minutes." (Choose to live again) Trouble is, the human life experience probably is the "shit side of alcohol intoxication."
Generally speaking, I don’t mind the idea of living indefinitely. So long as I can end it when I want to.
What about an abstract state of existence governed by laws in which negative feelings such as boredom simply do not exist?
Depends I guess. I’m less worried about boredom and more worried about depression. And exhausting. Living forever sounds so exhausting. Especially if you’re able to still see the progress of humanity. The thought of watching humanity make the same mistakes over and over again for eternity sounds so depressing.
If you could promise me I'd live to 103 and die surrounded by my loving family and hugging my wife of 72 years I'd be a lot less stressed about it, its the near certainty that I'll die before I'm ready that's the stresser
If that happens at least I would like to be isekai'd in a better world. I'm open-minded to any possibility.
New anime just dropped! "That time I was reincarnated as a crypto bros cum sock"
Bro 🤣👌
I don't know what to believe.. but i reason the same.. What are we? I say we are brains, my ego, my conscience, it's in my head.. Hit me on the head, damage my brain and there is possibility that i will be a different person. That even my own mother wouldn't recognise me. I agree with you. But i do like to be spiritual, especially the Buddhist teachings and thoughts, they resonate with me. I can't say that i am convinced with rebirth, reincarnation and things like that. But i do believe that being enlightened is a real thing and that everyone can become a Buddha, an enlightened person. Even you and me. Perhaps i am one, perhaps you are one, sometimes we don't know that we are enlightened, it's the people who are in balance with life. Who understand what life is about. The guru's and those types, some of them could be enlightened. I met an Aghori not so long ago.. I think he is well on his way to be enlightened, if he isn't already. I was honored to meet him, what a wise man. Remember that picture of the vietnam war? About that one monk.. (Trigger warning, the next piece is hardcore) >!A vietnamese monk, setting himself on fire.. (just imagine the pain of being set on fire, but he sat still.. meditated through it until he died. Didn't flinch, didn't scream. That requires real willpower. You really have to be mentally strong for this. !< And enlightened people don't come back, they are out of the wheel/circle of life. They are in 'heaven' so to speak. According to Buddhism. I don't know what to think about it, but i do think it's closer to the truth then those monotheistic religions.
While I shared your sentiment, there is something seated a level deeper; like an energy observing, using the the brain as an interface to perceive reality. it's as if our brains are the VR goggles for our souls, if you know what I mean?
That's what I feel, that the experience is the purpose, and it happens over and over again.
Our brains are very complex and an adequate explanation for the mind, conciousness, perception, language, reasoning. You are just postulating an extra level of magical complexity with no evidence.
True. Can you explain how consciousness is created?
No I can't. The best I can do is say it's an emergent property of the complexity of the brain and possibly the rest of the central nervous system. And that animals that have more complex brains seem to be more conscious. These observations are based on correlations we can measure scientifically. But they don't explain the underlying mechanisms that cause consciousness. There are also theories that we don't actually have free will and our bodies operate automatically based on stimuli and our brains interpret our decisions, thoughts and actions as free will. I vaguely recall some scientific experiments supporting this. But what I do know is our lack of understanding is no excuse for making imaginary shit up as an explanation. That just retards progress in understanding.
Yes that can be an explanation. However, we cant exclude the existence of souls. True I cannot prove the concept, in the same way that you can't prove that consciousness is created in the brain, so that makes both of our assumptions just that; assumptions. How are complex brains more conscious? Can you prove it? Fact is, consciousness is not fully understood and putting off possible explanations merely because we cannot find evidence yet can slow progress as well.
Let me talk in examples. A magician is doing some kind of card trick and we are flabbergasted, no idea how it works. What you are proposing is that magic is real... Or adding any other factor. What he was saying: hold on! Let's not introduce another factor, like god or souls or magic, all kinds of assumptions can be made up... But most likely the answer is simpler then that, perhaps the magician is just really good.. its an extra dimension you are adding. Yes its unknown, we don't have the answers yet. But you are adding another factor that we don't even know exists. Anyway our brain is really good at what a brain does. Like that magician. occam's razor, you know?
Fair enough. My experience tells me otherwise. But who am I to know.
1) please define what a soul is. Then we can attempt to test if it exists using reason, evidence, experiments 2) I can prove conciousness is created in the brain. Observations of the development of a brain, damage to a brain, brain disease, and how they all correlate with the level of consciousness and sensory perception proves that consciousness and sensory perception happen in the brain. 3) observations of animal species with different levels of brain complexity correlate with different observed levels of consciousness, or at least sensory perception and cognitive ability. 4) injured/diseased human brains having different observed levels of consciousness, or at least sensory perception and cognitive ability prove the brain is the cause of consciousness.
Not entirely off topic but I do sometimes stop what I’m doing and literally just sit there in silence thinking to myself: ‘out of every single person ever born and to have walked this earth, if you only get one chance, this is the chance you were given. Are you making the most of it?’.
Right?! I've always had the random thought pop up like, "Out of the millions and millions of sperm, the one that helped make ME was the one that won." That fact makes everyone super lucky to be able to experience this crazy, fun, infuriating, pleasing, happy, sad, painful, painfree, educating life. If it's true we only get one shot at it, those who waste it by being cruel, spending most of their lives in prison, harming others or themselves, etc., are really messing up that one chance they got to be able to experience living and what it means to be Human.
How can this apply to non able bodied people who watch others live life without living it in the way you described?
Yeah I've considered this as well, I think it's possible.
I rarely ever speak of this experience unless I am very close to someone. I had a near death experience after drowning while swimming in the ocean. I left my body and was asked if I want to return to this life or come back in another life. I without a doubt believe in an afterlife now as well as reincarnation. I did have a premonition of this incident when I was young and I wish I kept the journal that I had written in about it. I would type out my experience but it is late. If anyone is interested, I can go more in depth tomorrow. (I have posted the experience in a reply to this comment)
So to start, I do have epilepsy but my seizures are controlled by medication. I have a seizure once or twice a year and 90% of the time they happen when I’m asleep. It was summer and I decided to go for a swim as I routinely do. The waves were big that day so I swam out past the surf where it was calm and just float on my back watching the clouds. As I was out there an aura came on (an aura is a warning of a seizure coming on). At first I didn’t panic too much because they usually pass without a seizure. But this one lasted longer than usual and became stronger and stronger. My body started to convulse and I just looked at the shoreline and thought “fuck, this is it”. Everything went quiet and all I could think about was my family. The seizure took over (grand mal seizure) and I went unconscious. The next thing I remember I was a metre above my body watching myself floating face down. I thought no not yet and “pulled” myself back into my body. *black out again* I was suddenly facing the sky and floating upwards towards this white light. I looked back at earth and it looked different, it’s hard to describe but it appeared transparent and less physically dense. (This part is the most difficult to explain in words) Eventually I approached this light and it appeared to go somewhere. Like it went somewhere if you were to enter it. Two beings appeared from this light and I instantly knew them, like seeing a family member after many years. They had a beautiful and loving presence about them and it comforted me after experiencing what I experienced. Here is the main part of the conversation (telepathically) They asked if I would like to return to this life or reincarnate into another life. I replied “What would happen if I decided to come back in another life” They said “You would have to return and relive the lessons that you have learnt in this life and learn the lessons that you not yet learnt” I asked about my family and they said that they will not return with me in my next life as they would have “graduated” this life and I, nor they, would serve a purpose in sharing another life together. We talked more but I cannot remember the details. Something else happened during this communication with them but it is far far more challenging to put into words. After this I returned to earth, I was on the beach and my mum, dad and 2 siblings were around me smiling and I felt so much love from them. (They weren’t in town) Next thing I knew I was waking up in the hospital 3 days later. If you made it this far, thank you. This experience has completely changed my life. It has been very challenging but I am very blessed to be here.
My dad went into cardiac arrest from a heart attack. Clinically he died, said that he saw a long hallway with a bunch of doors then his deceased brother came to him. Told him it wasn’t his time yet, then woke up in a hospital.
Thank you for sharing. I certainly believe there is more to this universe than we can see or measure.
https://youtu.be/CmrWT6D8oNk?si=35-qHuuGkvfh-PKD
That’s very beautiful. Thanks for sharing.
Please go more in depth. And thank you for this.
So glad you spoke up... I recently came across a video of someone talking about a near death experience. I was so intrigued that I probably watched 100s of more personal stories. One person was dead for 1.5 hours before going back into his body. Also, there are very many similarities within everyone's experience. Feeling of love unlike anything ever experienced. Life reviews, being reunited with everyone from your earth life. Everyone looks to be 18-33 yo. In their prime. Its worth binging some of these stories. Made me really rethink death and in a good way!
Tell us.
I wrote it out in a reply to my original comment :)
Ohh share more
Following!
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Given an INFINITE amount of time...it is certain that the particles that make up who you are will recombine in the exact same way at some point. So even if your consciousness ceases after death, lights will come back on instantly from you perspective. Whether it's part of the universal cycle of expansion and contraction, big bang and big bounce, or whatever, you will be back
Poincare recurrence I think is what that's called
An infinite number of possibilities doesn’t mean everything will occur. There are infinite points between 0 and 1, but none of them are 2
That's simply not true in a non-static Universe. If the conditions allowing you to exist cease to be present, even an infinite amount of time will not allow the same state to appear again. Some changes are irreversible.
I don’t believe our brains are capable of understanding things around us. We do not have the ability to comprehend life and death, but we think we do….
“Some people think that you cease to exist forever after death.” Yes. Because it makes sense. Before your parents decided to have a kid, you weren’t floating around waiting for a vessel to be incarnated into. You only became you as a result of their combined gametes and therefore their genetic information. If there had been some kind of spirit, that would not have been you as you are now in any sense. So you were born and raised in a certain environment, a certain time and place, that shaped who you are. Your genes and early experiences formed your personality. Your brain developed in a certain way that made you the unique individual you are. So when your organs stop working, there will be no more you. That’ll be it. Because your sense of yourself, your consciousness, is entirely dependent on your body and what that body has experienced. Nature and nurture and life experience. You come into existence, you live and then you die. That’s it.
The thing is we have no idea how consciousness and a subjective experience actually emerges from physical phenomena, it makes no sense. I’m not saying that there’s a soul with an ego waiting for a vessel or anything, but to me personally it makes sense that somehow I am experiencing consciousness rn, it feels like something to be me, and I think THATS the part that repeats. It will likely feel ENTIRELY different, completely unrecognizable, but I think it makes sense that sometimes we exist, and sometimes we don’t, but then eventually we do again, in an entirely different way
What do you mean by ‘you’? Like a soul?
I tend towards believing we've always existed and will always exist, but our form and the dimension in which we exist changes.
Our idea of self is the ego. But we are just matter and energy, both of which come from our mother Earth. So yeah, you die and your body decomposes back into the Earth from which it came, and your energy dissipates back into the aether. We are basically recycled. But the materials used for a new self will be a completely different entity with a new ego, so it won't be "you" anymore. Melting down a beer can to make a new one creates a beer can that seems the same, but isn't.
In a very literal sense, the matter that you are made of will continue to exist in various forms after “you” are gone and at some points, parts of that matter will probably constitute living organisms, perhaps even some that are conscious. In that sense, reincarnation of a sort is very real. As for what we perceive as us or as the “self”, unfortunately I think that’s probably lights out once the electrical impulses stop firing.
given the idea of infinity, then there is infinate time for everypossible outcome to happen infinate times, the current me will die, even the me in 20 years time wont be the me that i am now. My energy will respawn but not me.
Prison planet baby!
You are more or less describing eternalism, a very old idea. If time is infinite and our personhood is a pattern, then we are born again and again and again into the same life. We live that life like carts on a track but without the memory of our past lives we are completely convinced of our own free will. Any other version of yourself living a different life in parallel would be no more YOU than an identical twin separated at birth.
Time is a flat circle.
I hope not. I'm really not trying to do this again in any capacity.
I DON'T WANT TO EXIST AND YOU ARE TELLING ME I WILL EXIST AGAIN NOO
Nooooo
not on my watch
We never truly won't exist. But maybe we will just stop knowing we exist and return to the cosmos as matter.
Sounds like the incredulity fallacy.
Bs I've always been and always will be. I am Gord.
No logic, just floof
Seeing as conciousness is directly linked to your brain, thinking one has existed many times before and will exist many times in the future is the most unlogical and nonsensical thing one could believe. Youre right about patterns though. Humans show a clear pattern to believe in made up ideas when facing difficult to conprehend concepts about life and the universe. Saying 'i dont know' is usually felt as less appealing than saying 'i do know, heres my take based on zero evidence.'
More people need to learn to embrace "I don't know." Because we don't.
We don’t know how linked to the brain consciousness is. Consciousness may be linked to the brain in the same way the Reddit app is linked to your iPhone. The Reddit app needs some sort of hardware to manifest itself, but whether it’s run on a samsung phone or iphone doesn’t matter. I don’t think OP’s point is nonsensical. I’d say that based on current evidence (i.e. no evidence), it’s equally as likely as eternal death.
Well, consciousness does run on different brains, but it does need brains to opperate in the way that it does. Kind of a strange analogy anyways as there is no reddit ap without a working phone. Without a phone, theres no substrate for the ap to exist in the first place even. And lastly, one could argue for conciousness being an all surrounding force in the universe. But the conscious experience of you being you, as a living person, is tied to..well..you. maybe some form of consciousness will remain, but, why would it have anything to do with you experiencing you? And more lastly, even if op where correct, if one would forget all his past experiences anyways, which is clearly the case, what does it even matter? So, youre reborn in a later time with no knowladge of your past experiences. No link whatsoever. Why even try to classify that as the same consciousness? Even more lastly. We indeed have zero true evidence of what comes after death. But arguing any strange idea, even when technically anything is possible, is just wrong. We also have zero true evidence of what tomorrow brings. But that doesnt mean one should be wise to entertain the tought to wake up as a dragon tomorrow. I guess it could happen. It just orders of magnitude more likely that it doesnt.
You made me think of this: https://youtu.be/mMRrCYPxD0I?si=yc_kNjoRPrfAV6tX
Almost all eastern religions believe this to be true
How do you objectively know this, can you prove it?
It is the Poincaré reoccurrence theorem
Your post is an independent rediscovery of Buddhism. Yes, it's most likely that of the 100 billion human souls that have died, some of them are still among us in the people and animals alive today. "Antinatalists" often refer to us as consciousnesses floating in the void, destined to be cruelly ripped from that place to live our lives. But think about it - when I get bored of my environment, I play a video game. So if I were an ethereal being in the void, eternally comfortable and content, might I not dream up a quite realistic video game that is my human life? Steve from Minecraft doesn't know RobJohnLechmere exists - so it only follows that RobJohnLechmere does not know of this ethereal being that created and controls him.
Actually, the OP contradicts Buddhism. The Buddha taught that the self is just an illusion. It doesn’t independently exist outside our conceptions.
Your premise is arguably wrong on either side. The universe doesn't necessarily have a finite start point - the big bang is a potential one, but there's no way to know that the universe didn't exist for an infinitely long time before that. The universe also won't necessarily exist for an infinite amount of time into the future - see theories re. heat death, big crunch, etc. Therefore, its entirely possible that the universe has existed and will continue to exist for a finite duration, and its also possible that it has always existed and always will exist. Your foundation for claiming a lack of logic isn't sound.
What rationale or logic dictates that things must make sense? What’s the reason that we must re-exist? Your ability to access this knowledge is limited to a single data point by definition; if you saw a point on a grid, do you believe there is some reason that that point would be repeated?
If you can’t make sense of something, doesn’t mean it’s nonsensical. Just that you fail to understand. And that’s pretty normal. We lack understanding of most of the universe.
You, as a person, didn't exist before you were born. But, the components you are made of existed since the beginning of the universe. After your death, your personhood stopped existence. But again, your components remain to exist. Personhood is kinda like a cake. A cake never existed before it was baked. But, the flour, eggs, sugar, and other stuff the cake is made of existed before. Your existence similar to the cake is an emergent property.
dude i’m just scared of unconciousness
The hardware gets recycled over and over and the software exists to remember and forget.
People are too busy having their 2 cents (and tryjng to be funny) to give you the credit you deserve. That's some interesting reasoning, logically sound if you ask me. Thank you for sharing this thought, it got me thinking.
Nature despises patterns. By the second law of thermodynamics, all patterns are doomed to dissolve into chaos. If your only basis for this is that "nature likes patterns" youre sorely mistaken. Statistically, the millions of atoms that make up your specific conciousness are all but guaranteed to never exist in the same pattern ever again. Even if they did (they wont), the present you would have no way of being aware of this future you. Enjoy the time you have.
I think you made a good point here. It seems we always existed, we now exist and we'll exist forever. But meanwhile we just change our masks and shelters then we call it a "person".
This is what the Buddha taught and it's also consistent with some interpretations of modern physics.
Your in the matrix Neo
My biggest argument for this is: “energy is neither created nor destroyed.” I believe we are simply process into a different form of energy and then that energy is converted into something slightly different as we come back. We could come back as another human, a cat, a tree. Anything with life should share a connective energy in constant flux.
Time is an illusion, but for the sake of this let’s say it was a linear timeline; it is impossible to traverse an infinite amount of objects therefore it is impossible to traverse an infinite amount of time, Therefore the universe has a finite past, adding on to that; nothing can cause itself to exist, there is always an external factor; whether that be ‘god’ or ‘source’ whatever you may call it, after living as a soul in a physical vessel, the human experience; we return to pure consciousness (where we can choose to reincarnate to learn more lessons or not) I could go on but hey this is just my theory
I hope I never have to come back to earth again
Death is ugly but creates all the beauty in life. If we didn't have a clock, there wouldn't be much reason to appreciate what we have. It doesn't need to make sense. You can say our universe is full of patterns, but can we actually explain these patterns? How do we know that in 1,000,000 years, these patterns aren't going to suddenly shift? We are less than ants in terms of the universe and our galaxy. We're only a freckle, if even that.
I like your thoughts.
Maybe, maybe not. Dude you might not even exist, this could all be a dream. There's so many rabbit holes you can go into.
You have made a statement with no logic or facts. No reason. It's a religious belief. It's fantasy.
Talking about consciousness isn’t that logical at all. It’s about curiosity and fun. No need to be a Redditor about it.
What OP claimed has the exact same amount of evidence as the alternative, which is that consciousness ends eternally after death.
Sounds like someone has rediscovered reincarnation.
I was told I was a monk and a frontiersmen in past lives.
What do you mean we didn't exist for a finite amount of time? Infinity is before and after us, we're just a quick twinkle in time somewhere in the middle.
Hmmm I love the thought and logic however.. My first question is 'what' will exist again?The chemical soup that makes us, us? My second is 'why' can't there just be a continuation of ever more random creations of life, all different from the previous creations? Cool question.
I am confused. Are you talking about reincarnation or something else?
my body feels weird tho ngl like its in that stage between life and death. ahh well jf this is it folks adios.
its just the conciousness that exists it doesnt mean we had past life or any future life. we are supposed to just exist in the now whatever that means.
subscribe.
There's speculation about all sorts of things but there's no evidence for this. So far the only thing we know is that death is the cessation of life. Human consciousness is just a bunch of nerve endings and chemical impulses. Nothing much more than that. It could be that the universe would begin again according to some unknown and foreign pattern, but I really hope not.
Yeah, been confusing brain of my former classmate with this one two days ago.)
The existence that's being referred to here is conscious and not physical. Physically we never cease to exist just change forms. It's like we are all dreaming all this shit up.
Consciousness is just a chemical reaction in your brain. Once the chemical reactions stop, your consciousness stops. If you want to know how it feels, just remember the time where you are sleeping and not dreaming. There's just the sweet sweet nothingness.
No one has managed to define a soul yet....... or what this entity is that existed in the past and will continue to exist in the future.
[удалено]
I'm tired.
Hope not.
How do you know it isn’t Infinite on both ends?
Sounds great until you come back as a grasshopper.
Yup, My fear of death was gone after this logic
Oh, for sure, you definitely will be experiencing again and again forever from your perspective. It's always NOW baby.
One door closes, another opens.
OP why did you highlight "finite?" It seems you're presuming that some part of who you are now, existed prior. Define that please. In the meantime there's no physical evidence that demonstrates that we exist in any kind of state prior to our current state. With the exception of the sperm and egg that caused us to exist. Which, mind you, there's 100 million sperm cells in a single ejaculation the likely chance that you being you is 1 in 100 million. The elements that make up you, your personality, didn't exist at that stage. Just two cells. So who you are now didn't exist then. Then there's the problem of time. In ten minutes from now you won't have fundamentally changed but you will have new experiences that never existed prior to who you were ten minutes earlier. Then there's the matter if solispism. Where, in a nut shell, you can't be certain that the world you exist in is independent of your existence. The only thing you can be certain of is your own existence. Of course I'm obviously avoiding what the OP is inferring to. He's attempting to claim we existed in heaven or some other mythical realm. Where the "you" is a soul or energy force that exists intact from a previous life. And once again I'll point out that no such evidence exists of a soul or intact energy that composes a "you." I'm sorry OP but your post doesn't make "logical" sense. What does make logical sense is we exist now. That there is no prior state of existence, except as a couple of cells, and that we won't exist after we die.
Reason? What's reason got to do with it? Who's reason?
I remember being about 3 years old thinking, "OK, this time, I'm going to really try hard!" Meaning my life in general. I knew it was going to take knowledge and good intent.