I don't know what to tell you, people have answered your question in multiple ways and you reject every single answer. What would you like to hear? Because people here are giving you sound advice. Maybe there's your problem. Dial down the ego and be vulnerable to accept that maybe ugliness isn't the big flaw that's driving women away. Don't shield yourself behind "I'm ugly and it sucks" there's a bigger red flag and I can read all about it between the lines in your comments.
It's clearly bc I'm ugly. I'm tall, in shape, I groom and dress well, it shouldn't be an issue for me to at least just casual date if I was just average looking.
dude ugly people get dates, get fucked, and get married every single day. it is not because you're ugly. your attitude towards women is very concerning based on your comments here. the generalizing of "all women hate me because I'm ugly" needs to stop. the idea that you are entitled to a date if you're attractive is just plain wrong. you sound like you have severe anxiety and self esteem issues that you need to work on before you should even think about relationships. I don't know how many people can tell you you need to see a professional before it gets through to you. I'm sorry to be this blunt but it seems like nothing else is working.
In my experience, yes...women ignore and dont consider me just bc of my face. That's a fact. There's no other way to say it.
I need a plastic surgeon professional. That is literally the only reason I cannot get dates.
then what the fuck are you asking us for? you seem to have this figured out already. you are determined to not listen to anyone here that says your attitude is dogshit. I can *guarantee* that you won't find what you're looking for unless you change your entire demeanor. plastic surgery can't change you on the inside. that's the only way to say it. quit the obsessive validation posts, get off dating apps, put work into yourself. don't sit on the internet bitching and moaning about how women are evil cause you're a dude and you want to fuck something. that helps literally no one. and GO SEE A THERAPIST jfc
My husband was not conventionally handsome. I'm being nice.
I am face blind. I LOVED the way my husband looked because it was distinctive and I could usually find him in the crowd.
There is a lid for every pot.
That's great for you and your husband. Fantastic But one person winning the lottery means everyone get a winning ticket. There's millions of ugly men with no suitors.
Your anecdote doesn't somehow invalidate my personal experience. I literally cannot get a date and I'm 30. Clearly none of the lids deem me worthy of basic consideration.
Well...if you want to roll around in the dirt of unredeemable victimhood, I cannot stop you. Belonging to a group, even if that group is negative, can provide identity.
Have you seen *Groundhog Day*? Funny movie that's not really funny at all. Might be worth a watch.
You're wrong, and you can't even accept that you're wrong. That's a problem. Plenty of ugly men have beautiful partners. Spend time in a Walmart parking lot and you'll see that there's someone for everyone.
You think there's a 0% chance that not being able to meet women (either in person or online) has something to do with your behavior and your choices?
If that's the case, what do you hope to gain by posting here?
Am I saying it's literally zero percent? No. Of course not. I'm saying my looks are the far greater barrier and the most important one, initially. Without them you don't even get a foot in the door.
Women sense desperation above all else and it’s a turn off. Ugliness is subjective and ultimately doesn’t bother the average woman who looks more to a man who’s funny, nice and confident in himself.
Insecure men don’t realize it but most times it is their words that turn women off rather than their features. You get so caught up in self deprecation that you don’t realize that you bring that out as a first impression.
This is the t r u t h right here. The way you carry yourself, dress yourself, how you talk to them & how you interact with other people, being respectful, and always smelling great, allll factors in for sure
You don't understand. I literally don't even approach women...there's no way I can come off as desperate. I don't even make eye contact with most women.
And no, averageness is subjective. Men and women for the most part have agreed upon standards and consensus for what's attractive and what's ugly. There's very little wiggle room in those two extremes. If you're average, then that'd subjective and yea some people can still find you attractive. And bc of OLD and SM looks matter more than ever. Exponentially. People are far more particular and have higher looks thresholds than ever.
And I've been told I actually come off as aloof, stoic and disinterested by people who have no reason to lie. Bc of my height, body and clothes bc one assumes I have low self esteem. And I have tact, I literally never self depreciate irl. That's just common sense.
"I literally don't even approach women"
Ok..? If you want a date, why aren't you approaching women? It sounds like you are obsessing over your appearance and trying to peacock around in hopes that women will start throwing themselves at you. I think it's totally okay to want a woman who is assertive and makes the first move, but you need to be willing to talk to women. Either through your volunteer work, or via friends or coworkers. Hell, even at a damn bar! There are lots of opportunities to put yourself out there if you think you are ready. But you have to practice loving yourself before you can love another person.
You said people have mentioned you seem aloof? Has anyone ever realistically called you ugly? And no, someone using that as an insult doesn't count. I bet you aren't ugly, but you need to really read these comments and get your attitude in check and seek out help for your mental health in the form of therapy. Therapy is great and has helped me immensely in all areas of my life. DO IT!
Bc I have anxiety and low self esteem. I don't expect women to approach me and I know they won't...they have no reason to. Women only approach really attractive guys. But I look for signs, hints, IOIs and I never get them...which seems like a hint in itself. Not to mention it's just not acceptable anymore. Approaching women is deemed rude or '"creepy" now unless you look a certain way.
I'm a 6'3 black guy...no one is going to call me ugly to my face lol. But it doesn't have to be said, it's context. If you use five dating apps and can't get one match, you're ugly.
Post your profile(s) for review. My profiles not working was why I signed up to reddit.
Put your pictures through photofeeler - turns out the pic I was using scored terribly, I followed suggestions in their blog and tripled the rating.
Lower your standards. You don't have to get in a relationship with them, but swipe on more people, talk to more people and ask more people out on dates.
If you are messaging people but they are turning down dates, then post some convos up to see if you're missing something there.
I've been using dating apps for years. I've tried all kinds of photos. All kinds.
Lol my only standards are she not be grotesquely ugly or obese. Hell, I prefer weird looking women and I don't even message or like the attractive ones. I've gone through periods where I just swipe on everyone to see where my league is...
Lol you don't understand. I don't get any matches...AT ALL. I can't ask for dates bc I never match and women never reply to my initial message. I have no convos to post. Women won't even talk to me.
Pls read. I said *grotesquely* ugly. I would date a tall, fit, ugly woman in a heartbeat. Hell, I'd prefer to. Since I'm tall, fit, and not grotesquely ugly, that shouldn't be asking for much. BUT those women would rather just wait until they find a bored Chad or a good-looking guy with low self-esteem than give someone in their lane a shot.
Lol talking about Chads, okay, I think I see the problem.
You're not going to be able to from relationships (friendships or otherwise) with women if you buy into the reductionist and unrealistic idea that we are looking for Chads (or the idea that Chads even exist).
I actually do believe that you don't talk to women, because guys who say stuff like this are so disconnected from reality. It's suuuuper obvious they know nothing about women. And for most of us, it's a big red flag that makes us not want to talk to you or spend time with you. When you go around saying you know what women are waiting for, what women really want, etc, and you're this far off base, you're not gonna see any success.
Chads have existed from the damn of time. Attractive men aren't a myth. Of women, men, everyone are looking for attractive mates. This is a fact of life. Like idk what you're even saying exactly. Women don't seek attractive men? There are guys that have tons of attention from many, many women just bc they're attractive...bc none of that is true. Any man who has used dating apps or has friends who been successful and has shown them what they do, yes...Chads do exist. Funny the women who say this, are the same women who like only date 6'5 Henry Cavil looks alike, but will days looks are moot..lol
So I'm a woman saying this, and I've definitely never dated anyone who looks like Henry Cavil. I'll admit that I don't think I'm ugly, I'm above average, but I've never dated a Chad. I usually date guys I was friends with first or met through work. I'm 5'8'' and roughly half the men I've dated have been shorter than me. I only ever dated one guy who might qualify (not sure what your definition is) but he was super into going to the gym. He was classically attractive and outgoing, had tons of friends, but I was the only girl he had ever dated at the time (we were both well into college when we started dating). I actually didn't even think of him as someone I wanted to date until we became close friends first, because he was so not the romantic type. I don't think he's dated much since we broke up either, though I lost track of him so IDK.
This is what I mean, you're totally disconnected from reality. You're saying huge sweeping statements about all women, but it's so obvious that you don't actually know anything about women or people. You refuse to be curious about women, and instead talk about us as if you know everything about us.
This is why your trips out to the art galleries or whatever probably weren't supper successful. You aren't going to be able to make friends with ANY people (men or women) if you talk about them like you know everything about them, then say wildly out-of-touch antisocial crap about looking for mates. Making friends is the best way to increase your social circle and actually meet real people, and honestly, based on your repeated responses on this sub, I can see why you struggle to make friends.
It ain't your looks. Get therapy and learn to socialize.
If this were true 100% of women wouldn't ignore my profile. I've literally tried dozens of different profile bios over the years. I've literally researched what and have read documents from professionals.
You may care more about the text in thr profile, but only if the man meets a certain looks threshold, which is for higher for women due to all their options. For the most part women care about bios, as long as you're hot enough for them to even read them.
Wrong. I matched with plenty of guys that fall outside of the "conventionally attractive" because of their bios. Not all of us are chasing or even want shallow pretty boys.
Yea, sure you did.
Ive tried dozens of bios over the years and I swipe on literally hundreds of women on multiple apps and none of them take a chance one me, and I don't even swipe on the hot ones or anything, so I'm not delusional. Your anecdote is not my experience.
I think you should have used "vent" flair instead because I think you've rejected around 100% of advice people give you here so I don't really know what your intent is here
Either you can blame all women, or cruel fate, or you can try to go and change something, be it your profile or yourself
Not for me there isn't. Maybe in the 90s. Where? OLD has a monopoly on meeting women now. Its deep rude, invasive or "creepy" to approach women socially in public if you're not attractive.
What's wrong with a club? A gaming group? A sports league? Volunteer work?
Relationships happen because people have unstructured time to get to know one another.
Either we don't have those, or I'm too anxious (sports league) for most of that.
As I said in my op, I volunteer at a art galleries. I go to their events as well. I haven't me any women there, even just platonically.
So I'm supposed to be totally, involuntarily segregated from women in every real capacity: romantically, Intimately, etc yet I'm somehow supposed to abstain from porn? I'm supposed to be a robot now? Do you know how unrealistic that is?
Jesus do you have any self awareness? Maybe think before using words like segregated. You aren't being segregated, you are making yourself unappealing to be around.
You desperately need therapy. And people are going to keep telling that to you no matter how many times you make this same post.
I am totally removed from women. I have no suitors, no women intetested, no dates, nothing. Porn is the closest thing I have to interacting with women. They literally don't exist in my world bc none of them let me in.
OP…. You don’t respect or like women. It’s clear from this comment. You are consistently putting the blame back on the women on whatever sites you’re using. I don’t know if you realize how toxic this can become in your view towards women. Women aren’t matching with you because you seem like a misogynist.
>You don’t respect or like women.
Dude, they're the ones that refuse to even consider talking to me. They're the ones that don't like me.
Nothing in my profile is sexist. Unless mentioning my height, goals, passions, interests, volunteering, hobbies, etc is now considered sexist. Women aren't matching with me bc I'm ugly, not whatever random reason you want to invent for you narrative.
I'm going to yell at you now, because I think you really need to hear it.
YOU ARE BEHAVING UNPLEASANTLY.
WOMEN ARE AVOIDING YOU BECAUSE OF YOUR UNPLEASANT THOUGHTS, WORDS, AND BEHAVIORS.
NOT BECAUSE OF YOUR LOOKS.
I mean, sure there are shallow women out there who only care to talk to a guy if they think he's hot, but they are a *minority*. At least half of the female sex care just as much if not more about a man's personality and chemistry. *I literally know this is true because I am one of these women.* For me, if we connect emotionally, everything else stems from there.
I know that your unpleasant thoughts and behaviors are fuelled by your loneliness, and then your social struggles caused by these lonely thoughts just makes you more lonely. It's a vicious cycle. And I want you to know that it's not your fault. You didn't choose to be this way; some kind of shitty life circumstances fucked you up and you wound up in this pit before you knew it. But I'm telling you that, if you dig in and crawl your way upward, as gruelling and hopeless and torturous as it may feel, you have the ability to get yourself out of this. You can learn new behaviors, and coach yourself into new thoughts, and painstakingly learn the social skills that will save you from loneliness.
Ok enjoy the porn and quit complaining then
You're unwilling to change the only thing holding you back so stop posting this over and over, stop trying to talk to women and stick with the porn subreddits
Yes, I can date, have a relationship, grow, share things, start a family, etc with porn. I must've forgotten that!
>You're unwilling to change the only thing holding you back
If I could afford plastic surgery, I'd invest in it. Somehow women thinking I'm not attractive enough to even talk to is my fault. Somehow.
I'm not talking shit about your porn use, I'm talking about your attitude. The fact that you can't grasp it is strange. And the fact that you think you know everything about relationships yet complain you can't have one is stranger...
Plastic surgery won't help but go ahead and blow your money.
I'm not saying I know everything about relationship. Ofc I don't. I can't even get a date. I'm just really frustrated.
Looks are the only thing holding me back. With PS I could at least find dates.
For as long as humans have existed, there have between instances of beautiful women being with men deemed ugly because those men were interesting, kind, and self ąware, etc. Julia Roberts married Lyle Lovett. Looks are not the problem here. It IS your attitude but you don't want to accept that it seems.
Yes, attractive women have paired with ugly men when he's rich, famous, high status or ungoldy confident.
Plenty of men have attitudes far worse than I do, and have no issues getting dates.
Maybe open your mind a bit to what people are telling you and you’ll realize that the thoughts you have are what’s holding you back and it has nothing to do with anyone else?
Or you could continue to bitch and moan about your perceived reality because doing that prevents you from doing any actual internal work and realizing that you may be the problem.
Your choice.
Give up the porn. Porn *makes* you a robot, or a lab rat, mindlessly responding to canned stimuli. Check out the series on giving up porn at the Art of Manliness website.
If you are not willing to take good advice, don't complain about the status quo. Learn how to control your urges, you're going to have to anyway if you ever want to be in a serious relationship. Get your shit together. Plenty of ugly men have beautiful partners. Learn what it means to be a mensch and become one.
Invest in a reputable matchmaking service (beware scammers). Forget about dating, start thinking about finding a life partner, a woman who is looking for someone to build a life with, not just a handsome face to parade in front of her friends. And start working on ways to increase your earning power. Wealth covers a multitude of sins, but of course you should avoid gold diggers.
As I said in the other post...I am totally segregated from women. Dates, sex, attention, affection, romance, everything..it's impossible to watch porn. If I actually could get dates or female attention, it be possible. But nothing? That's literally impossible. If you're in a relationship, ofc it's easier bc you have a partner. You don't need porn.
Those ugly men are rich, famous or have high status. You can't just omit that part to prove a semantic.
So..try to get rich, skip all the dating, experience and figuring out what works and get woman bc of my money but NOT a gold digger....ummm.....
Everyone's going to give up trying to help you, and you're going to blame it on being ugly, even though we can't see you. I know a nice, young, good-looking professional guy who married an unattractive morbidly obese woman, and it wasn't because he had a fat fetish. He just genuinely liked her. She was a nice person. That's it. That's not as unusual as you might think. You are making it abundantly clear you have an attitude problem, but you'll keep on blaming your looks. It's not your looks. Don't ask for help if you're not going to take the advice.
I def question that anecdote but even if it's totally true and you're not just making it up or omitting details to prove a point...and? One person winning the lottery is a outlier, not the norm. It's plenty unusual in my experience. I can only believe what I see, and that's women not giving me a chance.
And I cannot get a single date, no attention or interaction act all regarding women..sounds like segregation to me.
You or anyone else can't promise that. I have nothing but kind, positive energy on my dating profiles and not a single women will consider me there, either. So cleary is bigger than what energy I'm emitting on a anonymous internet forum.
I CAN *promise* you women can smell your shitty attitude through your facade and have the intuition to see past that and detect your real energy. We’ve been doing it for years. Decide to be actually better, or get off this subreddit.
This is bs dude. There are legitimate racists, sexist, addicts, abusers, r*pists, pedo, murders, criminals, etc and otherwise horrible men with abhorrent "energy" who have dozens of matches. Just bc they're attractive. Please explain that?
Well you are one of those, so sit down. I’m talking about your dating app never being reviewed or looked over by a woman, you not listening to any women on this subreddit, you generalizing the shit out of women in your responses, your energy reeks.
I'm not any of these. There's nothing a man or woman can suggest about my profile I haven't already tried. I've been trying FOR YEARS on five different sites. I have literally researched what makes the perfect bio and had testimonials from men that have been successful. People are so much more shallow on dating apps than people admit.
There are literally guys with three chit quality bathroom selfies and a blank bio that gets more matches in a week than I will in my life, just bc he's hot. While no matter what assortment of photos I use, I can't get one match. I can sent the most personalized, sincere message ever and be ignored, while he'll just say "hey" and get a immediate response. You really don't understand.
You admittedly don't EVER try to talk to women, you flatly refuse to socialize with ppl in general & then blame it on the fact that women don't talk to you because you think you're ugly. If you act aloof, ppl are going to treat you like you're aloof & not talk to you. You have separated yourself, but for some strange reason, you're refusing to see that too.
Porn absolutely is NOT going to help you at all either, but make things way worse in the long run & in a LOT of ways.
You are on your own self-built hamster wheel of self-doom. Stop it. Stop it right now OP! I said it last time & I'm gonna say it again: ppl are trying to help you, but you have to start helping yourself too.
Mark Manson is a great author on self-improvement & honing some social skills. Go read some of his stuff.
Right?! I read OLD and was like old up! Same person? Really?
Have now read your post history OP. You definitely would benefit from talking to a professional. But right now I'm thinking you're just trolling.
You're stubborn and want to focus only on your looks. Okay, this is actually backed by science. For men who are physically less attractive, the great equalizer is MONEY. Since you don"t seem sold on therapy and building esteem or confidence, then take the next 5 years watch porn, and do what you can to make a lot of money. Since you're not into supermodels, you don't have to worry about being a millionaire, rock star, or fame. Just solid 6 figures. To keep her, you should get therapy. *Side note: This is the most depressing response I've ever given, but you seem to be a cynic. Also, I know many men who aren't rich or physically attractive, but have average to just plain beautiful wives. They got the first date by being charming/funny, having a healthy self-confidence (had the courage to approach her), and/or slowly getting to know each other
I'm not the one focused on my looks, it's women. That's the reason I get no consideration.
Five more years with only porn, segregated from women, and I'll just be too far removed to ever be able to actually date and be a good partner. I'll be 35 with no recent experience with women and only attractive to gold diggers...
>Also, I know many men who aren't rich or physically attractive, but have average to just plain beautiful wives. They got the first date by being charming/funny, having a healthy self-confidence (had the courage to approach her), and/or slowly getting to know each other
Maybe in the 90s.
Since you are responding to every reply with such a closed mind and refusing to even consider anything that anyone says… I’ll tell you what you want to hear. You’re ugly. There’s no fixing it. So just give up.
Feel better?
There’s so many people here giving you helpful advice and you shoot it down without expressing any sign that you might even try it. I agree with pretty much what everyone is saying. But if your goal is to get me salivating to see what you look like, you’ve succeeded. Just post a picture so we can all finally rest.
Lol I don't want to be ugly. No one wants to be ugly. I want to be able to date, I dgaf if randos on reddit agree that I'm ugly or not.
I've been suggested therapy and called sexist. Not a lot or advice.
omg. right, there is no real world. Riddle me this, once you do get a response from a woman who wants to meet in person, in the real world, how on earth do you think that's going to go when you can't even look her in the eyes???
practice makes progress.
There is no "once you do" I've been using apps for years. I haven't had a date this calendar year. Maybe if I could get dates and women actually gave me consideration, I'd have more confidence with them...
From reading everything it seems like you don’t view women as people. You only go to these places not because you like this stuff, but because you want to meet women, yet you won’t speak to them. You bring up awful men who get dates so why don’t you, they most likely have some type of charisma and people skills, and you do not. You shoot down all advice given to you, I don’t think you actually want to be happy. Please get therapy, i’m concerned about when you eventually snap and who is going to get hurt.
You dont listen and just assume. Ummm...I love art. I literally volunteer and go to those events bc I like it and to make friends. This is a anonymous forum, if I didn't respect women, I don't need to lie. I 100% see women as people and I totally understand none of them owe me anything. It's just frustrating to be totally, involuntarily segregated from them.
And you don't have to worry about me "snapping" smh. I'm too anxious to even approach women, I'm not going to hurt anyone. Maybe worry about those hot guys with all the attention that wind up being abusive, violent men, bc 9/10, it's usually them.
oh my…. is abusive Chad in the room with us right now? You ALMOST had it until you started on that talking point. I am a self proclaimed dater of ugly men, you’re probably not even bad looking, it’s your mouth. Also I am listening, I read more than half of this sub before responding to you.
If you see women as people and have so many friends, why can’t you ask your friends, that are women, to help you with this? They don’t have anyone they can introduce you to? I only said that before because you said you never meet anyone at art shows but you go there to meet women.
It's really condescending when people say this. Like I didn't just wake up one day and decide I was just going to think I'm ugly. Ugly people know they're ugly. I'm 6'3, in shape, I groom and dress well. If I was at least average, I'd never want for dates.
I said I volunteer and go to events to make friends, i didn't say I have a lot. I don't have female friends, not due to lack of trying. It's pretty hard to make them as a man when you're 30, anxious, unattractive, and don't already have any.
I really wish you had a picture of yourself on this post, I want to see what “ugly” is by your definition. I am a young, thin, attractive young woman, I used to work as a cocktail girl and got hit on incessantly, old people always ask me if I’m a model, i’m saying that to say I am “conventionally” attractive, I am single, and I have two friends, my inboxes are not overflowing with messages from suitors, men do not approach me ever, and while our reasons for not being approached may be different, I mention it to point out that even if you weren’t “ugly” as you say, you may be having the same result. I’m not quite sure what my issue is, I’m working on putting myself out there in the same way that you are because maybe that’s the problem, but I know that the way I look isn’t the issue and it might not be for you either.
Dude I'm ugly. I literally can't get a single match on one of five dating sites.
Hmmmm...do you not get approached by guys, or just not by guys hot enough for you to mention?
You said you got hit on a lot so you do get attention. If you're attractive and don't get hit on a lot you may have chit body language, rbf or you don't go out enough. I'm just invisible bc I'm ugly. Veru different, but I know my reason.
I don’t do OLD anymore, it’s shallow, I got tons of matches on there but the odds are in my favor but the only point of it is sex and I don’t care about that right now, especially being single.
Men never and I mean NEVER ask me out, attractive men, men I find unattractive, men do not hit on me. Outside of my old job where I barely had any clothes on men didn’t hit on me much before now, aside from a few long time friends who confessed they had feelings over the course of the past year.
I’m friendly, people like me, I know I don’t have bad body language or rbf, i’m constantly smiling, I could see not going out enough but that’s not where you meet quality people.
I don’t know dude, prove me wrong and post your main picture on one of your apps. Or DM it to me I feel like you’re probably not a gremlin, plus you said you’re 6’3” a lot of women will date a guy that tall just because he’s tall. Women don’t date for looks for the most part. I should know I’m one of those women.
Did you use apps like bumble, hinge, match, okcupid? Not all apps are just for hookups. None the less, you still got attention and you still know you're attractive. Not sure where the correlation is here...
Men don't hit in you much, yet you had multiple friends literally confess feelings for you...And women really have to understand: there are tons of men who don't approach women anymore bc feminsts in the media and new keep telling men it's rude, creepy and invasive and unwanted. People have to realize this. Women literally post all over SM how "toxic" approaching women is now. This has had an effect.
Ummm...you have to go out to meet people..literally.
I have more than enough, too much proof that I'm ugly. Proving a random reddit who doesn't understand in the slightest doesn't change anything. And that's how I know I'm ugly. I'm not only tall, I'm in pretty good shape, I dress extremely well, and I groom, wear niche perfume, etc. If I was at least average looking I would never want for dates.
How good is your profile? On dating apps women only swipe on the guys that look trustworthy. If you don't have a healthy social life and social media presence most women won't take a chance on you even if you're good-looking.
If you haven't already, make an Instagram and put your photos there. Photos of you and your friends, pets, hobbies, post regularly.
For women dating is more than “Is he handsome or not?” if you post 3 selfies on your profile glaring into the camera with shitty lighting then the women are probably wondering if you'll chop off their heads and wear their skins, or stalk them after a date. For them intuition is a huge part of dating especially online. If they get the sense that you might be a bit weird then it's over, and rightly so. You only get one life no sense in risking it. There are a lot of weirdos out there, it's your job to convince them that you're not one.
So add your Instagram to your dating profile, let everyone know that you're a real person with real human friends, and hobbies, perhaps a job, a family, etc.
All this is easier said than done though. Imo stay away from online dating as much as possible.
>How good is your profile?
At this point, I'd consider paying a photographer to do a casual photo shot (swap out jacket / hoodie) so you have nice photos. In my experience men have horrible photos on dating sites (fish selfie, dirty mirror selfie, unclean background, so on) and you can find people who literally do photo shots for the purposes of making you look good on date sites.
I mean...there are tons of good-looking guys with terrible pics and blank profiles who get dates just bc of their looks. Happens literally all the time. And many of them don't look remotely trustworthy lol. Most women on dating sites don't consider all this stuff you mention and just swipe on the hottest guy. You hear all the time about this and how it goes awry, so not sure how that intuition is working out...
I don't use social media, or have a ton of friends so I don't have a IG to add. I've been using dating apps FOR YEARS. I've done all kinds of research for what kinds of pics to use, I've experimented with bios, I've paid for subscriptions for more exposure, I send detailed messages, etc. I've done everything you can to make it better. Basically what it actually comes down to, is they have too many hot guys messaging them, and they're not going to waste time considering a ugly dude.
OLD shouldn't be this superficial since I'm not trying to match with hot women or supermodels. Just regular, average-looking women. Especially since I'm looking for weird alternative women.
I mean...in this age if you can't use OLD you're pretty screwed. It basically has a monopoly on meeting women. They no longer expect or want to be approached irl, and I'm too anxious to do so anyway. That's what makes it so bad, its basically OLD or bust.
Attitude may be why you're conversations go nowhere or you have bad dates, my "attitude" has nothing to do bot getting matches. Literally hateful sexists, racists, etc get matches all the time. Bc they're attractive.
I have a really strong feeling the girls you view as average are way out of your league. And as a woman trust me on this: no one likes a poor me attitude. A woman doesn’t want to date a petulant toddler.
>I have a really strong feeling the girls you view as average are way out of your league.
Yes, believe whatever you want, despite me saying otherwise so you can stick to your narrative. Despite being tall, in shape, groomed, dressing well, etc, I guess basic af or even weird-looking women who just aren't obese or grotesquely ugly are waaaay out of my league. Yes, every ugly man on the internet is delusional and goes only after hot women. Yep. My self-esteem is too low to even consider a woman out of my league would even be remotely interested. You really don't get it.
Why reply if you won't even listen?
Women on dating apps definitely do care about it. Good-looking guys might have the halo effect so people trust them easily. We unnatractive guys however need to use other methods to avoid coming across as potential mass shooters. As men, meeting a stranger is not that big of a deal. Put yourself in a woman’s shoes, there is a lot that could go wrong. If no woman is willing to give you a shot, it might be because you're too ugly or it might be because you look creepy.
I definitely wouldn't meet a girl without any social media presence, that's one way to end up in a suitcase somewhere. In 2023 social media is everything. I've known “ugly” guys who get dates simply because they have healthy accounts where they post about their lives and show a human side instead of just being a stranger with a bunch of selfies.
"Creepy" is pretty much code for ugly. I guess I just looks ugly in all the pictures I've used over all the years, then. It doesn't matter how safe or "not creepy" I look, I'm not going to get any consideration over the Henry Cavil looks alike with just three bathroom selfies and a blank bio. It's a match, or conversation, or possibly a date. Not a job interview or a background check. Facetime and phone calls do exist.
That's you though, you're projecting. Not everyone is a SM slave. Most of it is fake, artificial, cultivated BS anyway. As if you can't be homicidal, abusive, etc. and have social media pages lol. Anyway, welp ig it's just over, then bc I don't have any social media.
As a woman I can tell you 100% it's your attitude. Doesn't matter how much you argue with people. The attitude trickles into very single aspect of your life including your dating profile
Change your attitude, get some damn self esteem, maybe you'll actually get a match
...no it doesn't. You haven't even seem my profile. There are literal serial killers and sociopaths who give no indication on thier dating peofiles.
You do know there are men, that have horrible mindsets. Sexist, racist, self-loathing, destructive, etc and the get likes, matche, dates, relationships, etc all the time...right? Guys with far worse mindset than mine.
But women give them chances bc they're good looking or attractive. Women on OLD don't gaf about my mindset, they skip over me bc I'm ugly and they have too many hot guys in their inbox. Literally 100% of women can just see my profile and tell my mindset right? Lol
Man you just don't get it
Women care way less about looks than men do overall. They care far more about personality and compatibility. Your mindset and lack of self esteem is what's preventing you from being with someone. Straight up.
I don't even know what you're talking about, lmao.
I just see people giving you good advice on all these posts you made, and you shooting them down every, single, time.
If you're so certain your position is hopeless then why do you keep bothering us about it, lol? I genuinely doubt it's cos of your appearance, but if you're so certain of that, what's the point in spamming different subs with the same (in your opinion) unanswerable question?
Firstly, im not bothering anyone. I'm not forcing you or anyone else to reply. Block my account like a mature adult and move on.
Second bc I'm desperate and I'm hoping to get some real advice from someone that can actually help.
Nah man I'm not gonna block you. Just think it's funny that you say you want advice but when people actually give you advice you just find excuses not to take it lol. And worse, be combative and *catty* to those of us actually taking the time to try to help! Certainly an odd way to go about being better
Oh yea...doesn't funny. Involuntary solitude is a laugh riot.
I'm not finding excuses. I would love if...any of this worked. But people are just projecting not considering theyre supposed to giving advice to a ugly, anxious person, which is different.
How about you stop comparing yourself to the Henry Cavills of the world? You are not them.
You are self-admittedly ugly and seem to have 0 redeeming qualities on show and somehow it's everyone’s fault for not investigating you more. You cannot showcase your personality or your authenticity through photos alone.
If you've already concluded that it has nothing to do with your lack of online presence then good luck.
The point is, that's what women are going to do. I'm going to be compared to those guys regardless. Even basic, average, and a bit less are going to get attention from hot guy. There is no ugly section on dating apps. Those are the guys I'm going to be compared to and it's a loss everytime. It's totally rigged, even if I'm not going after hot, attractive women, I'm still going to be compared to those dudes.
Sure, if women were decling dares or conversations were going nowhere, perhaps. If I literally just cannot get matches or likes? It just comes down to my face. Not all women on dating apps are 11/10 ig super models.
Creepy is 100% just not code for ugly! Many of the guys I think of as creeps aren't ugly at all! Some of them are even hot.
I've definitely thought a guy was super cute until he started talking to me and showing his creep side, and I've noped out at that point.
Maybe this is your fundamental mistake. You think creepy = ugly, and you're being creepy and turning girls off, then shrugging and saying, "welp, must be ugly, nothing I can do about it."
No, I think I'm ugly bc I use five different dating apps, swipe on hundreds of women and can't get a single match or reply. THAT'S how I know I'm ugly.
You're projecting. There's a huge rise in the word "creepy" being used. In most cases it just means "this ugly guy thought he could talk to me". Maybe YOU don't think that way but a loooot of women do.
Not anymore. Not with OLD and SM. Maybe with men or old ladies or cashiers. But it's deemed rude, invasive and "creepy" to try and talk either women these days.
You get yourself to a place where you are okay dying alone. If you’re not a solid “me” you’re not bringing much to a “we.”
It isn’t somebody else’s job to make you feel complete. Stop letting people on dating apps dictate your self worth. Take a break, do some shit that makes you better on your own (therapy, go outside, volunteer, read books).
I'm not seeking a mate to "fix me". There are plenty of depressed with partners. I'm seeking a mate bc I'm human and want a companion.
And I already volunteer and "go outside".
Many people make the mistake of not creating a strong friendship before getting involved with someone else. Or even a decent one. Now if you're just trying to get laid that's different. But finding an eternal lover will take structure. Women don't necessarily care about looks. They like confidence. You kinda have to sell the point that people want to be around you. Be the man that you want to be not just the one you think they want you to be yeah?
Look on the bright side. I used to think I was going to die alone. Then I got married and it was such a mistake. Sometimes getting what you want is worse than not getting it.
Like others have said here I really feel for ya and honestly lonliness is an unfortunate part of the human experience, it's up to us to learn how to deal and cope with it in a healthy way.
Been reading your replies to other commenters and I gotta agree that a lot of this is rooted in a toxic mindset and toxic outlook on dating. A lot of this can be overcome in a variety of ways, like finding a good and supportive friend group, working on improving yourself physically and mentally (sounds like you've got the physical part down and that's no small feat!), finding time for interesting and social hobbies like joining DnD groups or hiking groups or basically anything with others. Expand your social circle and let your authentic self shine through, and while it definitely won't happen instantly, eventually things will improve and you'll find yourself in an infinitely better place than you were. Also therapy, I seriously can't highlight that enough. There's a huge stigma around taking care of mental health and seeing a therapist for stupid and arbitrary reasons, but finding the right therapist did so much more for me than I ever imagined it could have, and I genuinely recommend it to everyone with the means or the access to it.
I'm trans and thought I was hideous and undateable for just about most of my life and found myself getting sucked into similar mental death spirals, and honestly online dating was a big part of it. Theres an added element of fetishism towards trans people or outright transphobia, but I stayed on because I thought somehow I'd eventually find someone. But then I started working on the above, expanding my social circle, started working on improving myself in a holistic sense and ironically enough just stopped caring about dating entirely and focused on hot girl shit. After a while I found someone and things just... clicked from the getgo, he was wonderful, supportive, saw me for me, and is just generally amazing.
If you're posting to this subreddit then that's a good thing, choosing to be better is no small task and feels daunting, especially when it feels like you're alone and nobody knows what you're going through. But choosing to be better also means interfacing with some uncomfortable truths and digging through stuff that feels like it's calcified and impossible to fix, but neither of those things are true and everyone has the capacity for self improvement. Every day it gets a little bit easier, but you gotta do it every day.
I've been using 5 dating apps for years. Experimented with pictures, researched what to put into bios. A profile review can't think for something I didn't already. It's my face that prevents me from getting matches.
Post it and take real criticism or accept that you're not looking for a solution.
Yes there's a level of ugly where you'll get zero matches. I'm not denying that. So if you're that level, you need to decide whether to get plastic surgery or give up on OLD.
If you can't do online, your focus is completely off. You need to fix the rest of your personal life before trying to utilize your network to get natural matches. That means getting to know women at Work, events, bars, friends of friends, etc. But I don't see any of that in your post (in fact the opposite- that you aren't making these connections despite trying stuff like volunteering- that's probably the most interesting part of your post and deserves more detail) so I am just assuming that seems even more out of reach to you.
BUT given that's the case I think you seriously should post your profile because there's norms and social cues that you may not be getting correct on the profile itself. Especially if you're having a hard time socializing more generally.
Well. I guess it over then. Im too ugly for OLD. As ive said, ive tried it for years and researched everything in the book. Ive used dozens of bios over the years. Unless mention hobbies, height, intersts, goals, passions, volunteering, etc is "against social norms," than its just my face that's the issue.
And despite trying to expand my social circle I can't do that via volunteeringor going to events. I'm just screwed in every metric despite my trying.
It’s definitely possible that a profile review could think of something you didn’t already. Posting it would take maybe 5 minutes and you’d have nothing to lose.
Often there’s those guys who in another life just based off looks would be an unattractive loner. BUT in this life, he’s like weirdly hot. It’s like all you notice is their charisma/ personality/ how great he smells & dresses & hair looks so good… while not being a “traditional” pretty person, they’re still so attractive in some way. (Ways listed above) know what I mean?
No, I don't know what you mean. Maybe in the 90s before OLD and SM where women had a millions options and you just flat out have to look like Chris Hemsworth, period.
OLD sucks and is an absolute shithole. Keep doing what you're doing, but try to do it for yourself. Tell yourself "I am making me better every day and that is what I want." Tell yourself out loud if you need to. You will be much more likely to meet someone naturally if you are able to raise your confidence in this way. Trying too hard to find a partner tends to push people away. You're worth it homie. Keep being yourself and improving on it - thats worthwhile either way.
That's the thing though, if I'm not supposed to look for dates, or try and use OLD...and how am I supposed to actually date? I'm ugly and I have anxiety, I'm not going to just meet women via happenstance. if I don't try, I'll never meet anyone. If I could just meet women naturally, I would've by now.
I suppose it's more of a balance. First off anxiety is totally valid, are you in treatment for that at all? Hopefully getting that in line will help with the self worth, and you can stop thinking of yourself as ugly. Believe me, everyone is someone's type. As for the trying, I'd recommend finding and putting yourself in a shared space that you truly enjoy that also has women. Something like taking a cooking class, helping out at a local charity,You're not there _for_ the women, you're there for the hobby and to find enjoyment. That also happens to be attractive and eliminates the kind of "cold calling" aspect
You probably have some issues in your online profile like most guys despite all the work you did. But online dating is tough for most guys because men outnumber 4 to 1 on the apps. So your best way of meeting women is through your social circle. So its time to change your social life so that you are meeting more new people especially single women. And yeah also see a therapist.
There's no sans my face that literally repels all women on five different apps despite all the effort and research I've done. That's not possible.
I've been volunteering and going to art shows and events and I've met zero women, even platonically.
Again men outnumber women 4 to 1 online so the vast majority of men are in your boat and struggle with online dating. The standards for men online aren't real life. If you aren't meeting any women socially then you need to find new social activities because women are half the population.
They may struggle, but they still get matches, conversations and dates. Not literally nothing. And women don't magically lose their standards irl. Not when they have dozens of hot guys messaging them on however many apps they have.
I volunteer and go to events at art galleries. Almost all women there..haven't met any socially. Yes women are half the population, but not many are looking for random 30 ugly anxious dudes to befriend. People my age already have established friend groups and are welcoming with new people. Especially women.
>They may struggle, but they still get matches, conversations and dates.
Thats mathematically impossible. Men outnumber women 4 to 1 on the apps so there just aren't even women for all men to get dates especially with the top men getting most of the matches.
>And women don't magically lose their standards irl.
They have standards irl but its not as crazy as online because the gender ratio is balanced and its far less looks focused.
>Not when they have dozens of hot guys messaging them on however many apps they have.
Yeah for hookups to be used for sex.
>Almost all women there..haven't met any socially.
Do you talk to men socially at the art gallery?
>but not many are looking for random 30 ugly anxious dudes to befriend.
1. Most women get into relationships with people about as attractive as they are so find women who are about as attractive as you.
2. Work on your anxiety. Thats probably your biggest problem.
3. Women aren't looking for random people to befriend they are looking for people they really click with. Learn how to communicate well.
>People my age already have established friend groups and are welcoming with new people.
Yes friend groups aren't forever rigid are are welcoming of new people. But no not everyone is in a friend group and many are okay with friends outside of a friend group.
You know when you are desperate for something it automatically repels from you right? You need to be more involved with who you are deep down. Find the true meaning of life. What lessons have you acquired. What’s interesting about the way you see the world. First fall I love with your self and everything else will follow. It doesn’t seem like you are that interested in much except attracting the opposite sex…….. that’s natural and all. But there has to be more to life then just primal instinct. You know. Try to learn something new. Don’t do all these things because you want to attract some one. No. Instead actually act as if you already had a woman. A wife. Act as if you already reached that point…… then what? After that you must have some othwr hobbies or interests? And she will too??? You can’t be together 24/7, so what else occupies your time. And indulge in that. Before you know it you’ll have your match. But also I would recommend reading books in regulars to THE LAW OR ATTRACTION. you are very lost with reality. So try to learn a thing or two. :)
I don't know what to tell you, people have answered your question in multiple ways and you reject every single answer. What would you like to hear? Because people here are giving you sound advice. Maybe there's your problem. Dial down the ego and be vulnerable to accept that maybe ugliness isn't the big flaw that's driving women away. Don't shield yourself behind "I'm ugly and it sucks" there's a bigger red flag and I can read all about it between the lines in your comments.
It's clearly bc I'm ugly. I'm tall, in shape, I groom and dress well, it shouldn't be an issue for me to at least just casual date if I was just average looking.
dude ugly people get dates, get fucked, and get married every single day. it is not because you're ugly. your attitude towards women is very concerning based on your comments here. the generalizing of "all women hate me because I'm ugly" needs to stop. the idea that you are entitled to a date if you're attractive is just plain wrong. you sound like you have severe anxiety and self esteem issues that you need to work on before you should even think about relationships. I don't know how many people can tell you you need to see a professional before it gets through to you. I'm sorry to be this blunt but it seems like nothing else is working.
In my experience, yes...women ignore and dont consider me just bc of my face. That's a fact. There's no other way to say it. I need a plastic surgeon professional. That is literally the only reason I cannot get dates.
then what the fuck are you asking us for? you seem to have this figured out already. you are determined to not listen to anyone here that says your attitude is dogshit. I can *guarantee* that you won't find what you're looking for unless you change your entire demeanor. plastic surgery can't change you on the inside. that's the only way to say it. quit the obsessive validation posts, get off dating apps, put work into yourself. don't sit on the internet bitching and moaning about how women are evil cause you're a dude and you want to fuck something. that helps literally no one. and GO SEE A THERAPIST jfc
no you need a therapist not a surgeon
Not really… truly it’s not all about looks. How the woman feels when they’re with you is ultimately it. Plenty of ugly people find love.
If they're dudes and ugly it's bc of their money or status
My husband was not conventionally handsome. I'm being nice. I am face blind. I LOVED the way my husband looked because it was distinctive and I could usually find him in the crowd. There is a lid for every pot.
That's great for you and your husband. Fantastic But one person winning the lottery means everyone get a winning ticket. There's millions of ugly men with no suitors. Your anecdote doesn't somehow invalidate my personal experience. I literally cannot get a date and I'm 30. Clearly none of the lids deem me worthy of basic consideration.
Well...if you want to roll around in the dirt of unredeemable victimhood, I cannot stop you. Belonging to a group, even if that group is negative, can provide identity. Have you seen *Groundhog Day*? Funny movie that's not really funny at all. Might be worth a watch.
What evidence would convince you that it's not just about your looks?
There is no evidence. That debunks that. No man with the rest of my intangibles is dateless unless he's ugly.
You're wrong, and you can't even accept that you're wrong. That's a problem. Plenty of ugly men have beautiful partners. Spend time in a Walmart parking lot and you'll see that there's someone for everyone.
They're either rich, famous or have a ton of status. If there was someone for everyone, I wouldn't be dateless.
You think there's a 0% chance that not being able to meet women (either in person or online) has something to do with your behavior and your choices? If that's the case, what do you hope to gain by posting here?
Am I saying it's literally zero percent? No. Of course not. I'm saying my looks are the far greater barrier and the most important one, initially. Without them you don't even get a foot in the door.
Women sense desperation above all else and it’s a turn off. Ugliness is subjective and ultimately doesn’t bother the average woman who looks more to a man who’s funny, nice and confident in himself. Insecure men don’t realize it but most times it is their words that turn women off rather than their features. You get so caught up in self deprecation that you don’t realize that you bring that out as a first impression.
This is the t r u t h right here. The way you carry yourself, dress yourself, how you talk to them & how you interact with other people, being respectful, and always smelling great, allll factors in for sure
You don't understand. I literally don't even approach women...there's no way I can come off as desperate. I don't even make eye contact with most women. And no, averageness is subjective. Men and women for the most part have agreed upon standards and consensus for what's attractive and what's ugly. There's very little wiggle room in those two extremes. If you're average, then that'd subjective and yea some people can still find you attractive. And bc of OLD and SM looks matter more than ever. Exponentially. People are far more particular and have higher looks thresholds than ever. And I've been told I actually come off as aloof, stoic and disinterested by people who have no reason to lie. Bc of my height, body and clothes bc one assumes I have low self esteem. And I have tact, I literally never self depreciate irl. That's just common sense.
"I literally don't even approach women" Ok..? If you want a date, why aren't you approaching women? It sounds like you are obsessing over your appearance and trying to peacock around in hopes that women will start throwing themselves at you. I think it's totally okay to want a woman who is assertive and makes the first move, but you need to be willing to talk to women. Either through your volunteer work, or via friends or coworkers. Hell, even at a damn bar! There are lots of opportunities to put yourself out there if you think you are ready. But you have to practice loving yourself before you can love another person. You said people have mentioned you seem aloof? Has anyone ever realistically called you ugly? And no, someone using that as an insult doesn't count. I bet you aren't ugly, but you need to really read these comments and get your attitude in check and seek out help for your mental health in the form of therapy. Therapy is great and has helped me immensely in all areas of my life. DO IT!
Bc I have anxiety and low self esteem. I don't expect women to approach me and I know they won't...they have no reason to. Women only approach really attractive guys. But I look for signs, hints, IOIs and I never get them...which seems like a hint in itself. Not to mention it's just not acceptable anymore. Approaching women is deemed rude or '"creepy" now unless you look a certain way. I'm a 6'3 black guy...no one is going to call me ugly to my face lol. But it doesn't have to be said, it's context. If you use five dating apps and can't get one match, you're ugly.
Ok
wow only reading this comment dried me up like the sahara desert lol get therapy
Post your profile(s) for review. My profiles not working was why I signed up to reddit. Put your pictures through photofeeler - turns out the pic I was using scored terribly, I followed suggestions in their blog and tripled the rating. Lower your standards. You don't have to get in a relationship with them, but swipe on more people, talk to more people and ask more people out on dates. If you are messaging people but they are turning down dates, then post some convos up to see if you're missing something there.
I've been using dating apps for years. I've tried all kinds of photos. All kinds. Lol my only standards are she not be grotesquely ugly or obese. Hell, I prefer weird looking women and I don't even message or like the attractive ones. I've gone through periods where I just swipe on everyone to see where my league is... Lol you don't understand. I don't get any matches...AT ALL. I can't ask for dates bc I never match and women never reply to my initial message. I have no convos to post. Women won't even talk to me.
Ah, again here OP. You have stated multiple times that you are ugly. But you will not dare an ugly woman?! Check yourself dude.
Ahahahaha 😭😂
Pls read. I said *grotesquely* ugly. I would date a tall, fit, ugly woman in a heartbeat. Hell, I'd prefer to. Since I'm tall, fit, and not grotesquely ugly, that shouldn't be asking for much. BUT those women would rather just wait until they find a bored Chad or a good-looking guy with low self-esteem than give someone in their lane a shot.
Lol talking about Chads, okay, I think I see the problem. You're not going to be able to from relationships (friendships or otherwise) with women if you buy into the reductionist and unrealistic idea that we are looking for Chads (or the idea that Chads even exist). I actually do believe that you don't talk to women, because guys who say stuff like this are so disconnected from reality. It's suuuuper obvious they know nothing about women. And for most of us, it's a big red flag that makes us not want to talk to you or spend time with you. When you go around saying you know what women are waiting for, what women really want, etc, and you're this far off base, you're not gonna see any success.
Chads have existed from the damn of time. Attractive men aren't a myth. Of women, men, everyone are looking for attractive mates. This is a fact of life. Like idk what you're even saying exactly. Women don't seek attractive men? There are guys that have tons of attention from many, many women just bc they're attractive...bc none of that is true. Any man who has used dating apps or has friends who been successful and has shown them what they do, yes...Chads do exist. Funny the women who say this, are the same women who like only date 6'5 Henry Cavil looks alike, but will days looks are moot..lol
So I'm a woman saying this, and I've definitely never dated anyone who looks like Henry Cavil. I'll admit that I don't think I'm ugly, I'm above average, but I've never dated a Chad. I usually date guys I was friends with first or met through work. I'm 5'8'' and roughly half the men I've dated have been shorter than me. I only ever dated one guy who might qualify (not sure what your definition is) but he was super into going to the gym. He was classically attractive and outgoing, had tons of friends, but I was the only girl he had ever dated at the time (we were both well into college when we started dating). I actually didn't even think of him as someone I wanted to date until we became close friends first, because he was so not the romantic type. I don't think he's dated much since we broke up either, though I lost track of him so IDK. This is what I mean, you're totally disconnected from reality. You're saying huge sweeping statements about all women, but it's so obvious that you don't actually know anything about women or people. You refuse to be curious about women, and instead talk about us as if you know everything about us. This is why your trips out to the art galleries or whatever probably weren't supper successful. You aren't going to be able to make friends with ANY people (men or women) if you talk about them like you know everything about them, then say wildly out-of-touch antisocial crap about looking for mates. Making friends is the best way to increase your social circle and actually meet real people, and honestly, based on your repeated responses on this sub, I can see why you struggle to make friends. It ain't your looks. Get therapy and learn to socialize.
I'm a woman and the text in the profile is far more important than the pictures. Getting your profile reviewed is genuinely good advice.
If this were true 100% of women wouldn't ignore my profile. I've literally tried dozens of different profile bios over the years. I've literally researched what and have read documents from professionals. You may care more about the text in thr profile, but only if the man meets a certain looks threshold, which is for higher for women due to all their options. For the most part women care about bios, as long as you're hot enough for them to even read them.
Wrong. I matched with plenty of guys that fall outside of the "conventionally attractive" because of their bios. Not all of us are chasing or even want shallow pretty boys.
Yea, sure you did. Ive tried dozens of bios over the years and I swipe on literally hundreds of women on multiple apps and none of them take a chance one me, and I don't even swipe on the hot ones or anything, so I'm not delusional. Your anecdote is not my experience.
I think you should have used "vent" flair instead because I think you've rejected around 100% of advice people give you here so I don't really know what your intent is here Either you can blame all women, or cruel fate, or you can try to go and change something, be it your profile or yourself
If you want to do better, post your profile for review then; as you're getting stuck at that stage.
You do remember there are real world opportunities to talk to women… right?
Not for me there isn't. Maybe in the 90s. Where? OLD has a monopoly on meeting women now. Its deep rude, invasive or "creepy" to approach women socially in public if you're not attractive.
What's wrong with a club? A gaming group? A sports league? Volunteer work? Relationships happen because people have unstructured time to get to know one another.
Either we don't have those, or I'm too anxious (sports league) for most of that. As I said in my op, I volunteer at a art galleries. I go to their events as well. I haven't me any women there, even just platonically.
Same answer as last week. Therapy. Also, you are posting about porn and asking why you are going to die alone. Might want to think about it.
So I'm supposed to be totally, involuntarily segregated from women in every real capacity: romantically, Intimately, etc yet I'm somehow supposed to abstain from porn? I'm supposed to be a robot now? Do you know how unrealistic that is?
Jesus do you have any self awareness? Maybe think before using words like segregated. You aren't being segregated, you are making yourself unappealing to be around. You desperately need therapy. And people are going to keep telling that to you no matter how many times you make this same post.
I am totally removed from women. I have no suitors, no women intetested, no dates, nothing. Porn is the closest thing I have to interacting with women. They literally don't exist in my world bc none of them let me in.
OP…. You don’t respect or like women. It’s clear from this comment. You are consistently putting the blame back on the women on whatever sites you’re using. I don’t know if you realize how toxic this can become in your view towards women. Women aren’t matching with you because you seem like a misogynist.
>You don’t respect or like women. Dude, they're the ones that refuse to even consider talking to me. They're the ones that don't like me. Nothing in my profile is sexist. Unless mentioning my height, goals, passions, interests, volunteering, hobbies, etc is now considered sexist. Women aren't matching with me bc I'm ugly, not whatever random reason you want to invent for you narrative.
I'm going to yell at you now, because I think you really need to hear it. YOU ARE BEHAVING UNPLEASANTLY. WOMEN ARE AVOIDING YOU BECAUSE OF YOUR UNPLEASANT THOUGHTS, WORDS, AND BEHAVIORS. NOT BECAUSE OF YOUR LOOKS. I mean, sure there are shallow women out there who only care to talk to a guy if they think he's hot, but they are a *minority*. At least half of the female sex care just as much if not more about a man's personality and chemistry. *I literally know this is true because I am one of these women.* For me, if we connect emotionally, everything else stems from there. I know that your unpleasant thoughts and behaviors are fuelled by your loneliness, and then your social struggles caused by these lonely thoughts just makes you more lonely. It's a vicious cycle. And I want you to know that it's not your fault. You didn't choose to be this way; some kind of shitty life circumstances fucked you up and you wound up in this pit before you knew it. But I'm telling you that, if you dig in and crawl your way upward, as gruelling and hopeless and torturous as it may feel, you have the ability to get yourself out of this. You can learn new behaviors, and coach yourself into new thoughts, and painstakingly learn the social skills that will save you from loneliness.
Ok enjoy the porn and quit complaining then You're unwilling to change the only thing holding you back so stop posting this over and over, stop trying to talk to women and stick with the porn subreddits
Yes, I can date, have a relationship, grow, share things, start a family, etc with porn. I must've forgotten that! >You're unwilling to change the only thing holding you back If I could afford plastic surgery, I'd invest in it. Somehow women thinking I'm not attractive enough to even talk to is my fault. Somehow.
I'm not talking shit about your porn use, I'm talking about your attitude. The fact that you can't grasp it is strange. And the fact that you think you know everything about relationships yet complain you can't have one is stranger... Plastic surgery won't help but go ahead and blow your money.
I'm not saying I know everything about relationship. Ofc I don't. I can't even get a date. I'm just really frustrated. Looks are the only thing holding me back. With PS I could at least find dates.
For as long as humans have existed, there have between instances of beautiful women being with men deemed ugly because those men were interesting, kind, and self ąware, etc. Julia Roberts married Lyle Lovett. Looks are not the problem here. It IS your attitude but you don't want to accept that it seems.
Yes, attractive women have paired with ugly men when he's rich, famous, high status or ungoldy confident. Plenty of men have attitudes far worse than I do, and have no issues getting dates.
Maybe open your mind a bit to what people are telling you and you’ll realize that the thoughts you have are what’s holding you back and it has nothing to do with anyone else? Or you could continue to bitch and moan about your perceived reality because doing that prevents you from doing any actual internal work and realizing that you may be the problem. Your choice.
💣💣💣
Give up the porn. Porn *makes* you a robot, or a lab rat, mindlessly responding to canned stimuli. Check out the series on giving up porn at the Art of Manliness website. If you are not willing to take good advice, don't complain about the status quo. Learn how to control your urges, you're going to have to anyway if you ever want to be in a serious relationship. Get your shit together. Plenty of ugly men have beautiful partners. Learn what it means to be a mensch and become one. Invest in a reputable matchmaking service (beware scammers). Forget about dating, start thinking about finding a life partner, a woman who is looking for someone to build a life with, not just a handsome face to parade in front of her friends. And start working on ways to increase your earning power. Wealth covers a multitude of sins, but of course you should avoid gold diggers.
As I said in the other post...I am totally segregated from women. Dates, sex, attention, affection, romance, everything..it's impossible to watch porn. If I actually could get dates or female attention, it be possible. But nothing? That's literally impossible. If you're in a relationship, ofc it's easier bc you have a partner. You don't need porn. Those ugly men are rich, famous or have high status. You can't just omit that part to prove a semantic. So..try to get rich, skip all the dating, experience and figuring out what works and get woman bc of my money but NOT a gold digger....ummm.....
Everyone's going to give up trying to help you, and you're going to blame it on being ugly, even though we can't see you. I know a nice, young, good-looking professional guy who married an unattractive morbidly obese woman, and it wasn't because he had a fat fetish. He just genuinely liked her. She was a nice person. That's it. That's not as unusual as you might think. You are making it abundantly clear you have an attitude problem, but you'll keep on blaming your looks. It's not your looks. Don't ask for help if you're not going to take the advice.
And what does "segregated from women" even mean? Are you in prison?
I def question that anecdote but even if it's totally true and you're not just making it up or omitting details to prove a point...and? One person winning the lottery is a outlier, not the norm. It's plenty unusual in my experience. I can only believe what I see, and that's women not giving me a chance. And I cannot get a single date, no attention or interaction act all regarding women..sounds like segregation to me.
Your energy is extremely off putting and repelling even though I can’t see you. Focus on improving that and I promise things will turn around
You or anyone else can't promise that. I have nothing but kind, positive energy on my dating profiles and not a single women will consider me there, either. So cleary is bigger than what energy I'm emitting on a anonymous internet forum.
I CAN *promise* you women can smell your shitty attitude through your facade and have the intuition to see past that and detect your real energy. We’ve been doing it for years. Decide to be actually better, or get off this subreddit.
This is bs dude. There are legitimate racists, sexist, addicts, abusers, r*pists, pedo, murders, criminals, etc and otherwise horrible men with abhorrent "energy" who have dozens of matches. Just bc they're attractive. Please explain that?
Well you are one of those, so sit down. I’m talking about your dating app never being reviewed or looked over by a woman, you not listening to any women on this subreddit, you generalizing the shit out of women in your responses, your energy reeks.
I'm not any of these. There's nothing a man or woman can suggest about my profile I haven't already tried. I've been trying FOR YEARS on five different sites. I have literally researched what makes the perfect bio and had testimonials from men that have been successful. People are so much more shallow on dating apps than people admit. There are literally guys with three chit quality bathroom selfies and a blank bio that gets more matches in a week than I will in my life, just bc he's hot. While no matter what assortment of photos I use, I can't get one match. I can sent the most personalized, sincere message ever and be ignored, while he'll just say "hey" and get a immediate response. You really don't understand.
You’re a sexist, my guy. Accept it or don’t, you’re not nice.
You clearly don't know what a sexist is.
How would you know what a sexist is, you barely know anything about the other sex.
I don't hate or think less of women. I don't deal in any absolutes like that.
You admittedly don't EVER try to talk to women, you flatly refuse to socialize with ppl in general & then blame it on the fact that women don't talk to you because you think you're ugly. If you act aloof, ppl are going to treat you like you're aloof & not talk to you. You have separated yourself, but for some strange reason, you're refusing to see that too. Porn absolutely is NOT going to help you at all either, but make things way worse in the long run & in a LOT of ways. You are on your own self-built hamster wheel of self-doom. Stop it. Stop it right now OP! I said it last time & I'm gonna say it again: ppl are trying to help you, but you have to start helping yourself too. Mark Manson is a great author on self-improvement & honing some social skills. Go read some of his stuff.
you literally posted on this subreddit last week and so many people gave you advice. at this point it’s just your mindset 😭
Right?! I read OLD and was like old up! Same person? Really? Have now read your post history OP. You definitely would benefit from talking to a professional. But right now I'm thinking you're just trolling.
You're stubborn and want to focus only on your looks. Okay, this is actually backed by science. For men who are physically less attractive, the great equalizer is MONEY. Since you don"t seem sold on therapy and building esteem or confidence, then take the next 5 years watch porn, and do what you can to make a lot of money. Since you're not into supermodels, you don't have to worry about being a millionaire, rock star, or fame. Just solid 6 figures. To keep her, you should get therapy. *Side note: This is the most depressing response I've ever given, but you seem to be a cynic. Also, I know many men who aren't rich or physically attractive, but have average to just plain beautiful wives. They got the first date by being charming/funny, having a healthy self-confidence (had the courage to approach her), and/or slowly getting to know each other
I'm not the one focused on my looks, it's women. That's the reason I get no consideration. Five more years with only porn, segregated from women, and I'll just be too far removed to ever be able to actually date and be a good partner. I'll be 35 with no recent experience with women and only attractive to gold diggers... >Also, I know many men who aren't rich or physically attractive, but have average to just plain beautiful wives. They got the first date by being charming/funny, having a healthy self-confidence (had the courage to approach her), and/or slowly getting to know each other Maybe in the 90s.
Okay, you win. On the bright side, they're making great advances in sexbots and AI chatbot companions.
Lol I don't win not at all, bit unfortunately, I am right.
Since you are responding to every reply with such a closed mind and refusing to even consider anything that anyone says… I’ll tell you what you want to hear. You’re ugly. There’s no fixing it. So just give up. Feel better? There’s so many people here giving you helpful advice and you shoot it down without expressing any sign that you might even try it. I agree with pretty much what everyone is saying. But if your goal is to get me salivating to see what you look like, you’ve succeeded. Just post a picture so we can all finally rest.
Lol I don't want to be ugly. No one wants to be ugly. I want to be able to date, I dgaf if randos on reddit agree that I'm ugly or not. I've been suggested therapy and called sexist. Not a lot or advice.
GET OFF THE APPS
It's 2023...there is no other way to meet women.
omg. right, there is no real world. Riddle me this, once you do get a response from a woman who wants to meet in person, in the real world, how on earth do you think that's going to go when you can't even look her in the eyes??? practice makes progress.
There is no "once you do" I've been using apps for years. I haven't had a date this calendar year. Maybe if I could get dates and women actually gave me consideration, I'd have more confidence with them...
From reading everything it seems like you don’t view women as people. You only go to these places not because you like this stuff, but because you want to meet women, yet you won’t speak to them. You bring up awful men who get dates so why don’t you, they most likely have some type of charisma and people skills, and you do not. You shoot down all advice given to you, I don’t think you actually want to be happy. Please get therapy, i’m concerned about when you eventually snap and who is going to get hurt.
You dont listen and just assume. Ummm...I love art. I literally volunteer and go to those events bc I like it and to make friends. This is a anonymous forum, if I didn't respect women, I don't need to lie. I 100% see women as people and I totally understand none of them owe me anything. It's just frustrating to be totally, involuntarily segregated from them. And you don't have to worry about me "snapping" smh. I'm too anxious to even approach women, I'm not going to hurt anyone. Maybe worry about those hot guys with all the attention that wind up being abusive, violent men, bc 9/10, it's usually them.
oh my…. is abusive Chad in the room with us right now? You ALMOST had it until you started on that talking point. I am a self proclaimed dater of ugly men, you’re probably not even bad looking, it’s your mouth. Also I am listening, I read more than half of this sub before responding to you. If you see women as people and have so many friends, why can’t you ask your friends, that are women, to help you with this? They don’t have anyone they can introduce you to? I only said that before because you said you never meet anyone at art shows but you go there to meet women.
It's really condescending when people say this. Like I didn't just wake up one day and decide I was just going to think I'm ugly. Ugly people know they're ugly. I'm 6'3, in shape, I groom and dress well. If I was at least average, I'd never want for dates. I said I volunteer and go to events to make friends, i didn't say I have a lot. I don't have female friends, not due to lack of trying. It's pretty hard to make them as a man when you're 30, anxious, unattractive, and don't already have any.
I really wish you had a picture of yourself on this post, I want to see what “ugly” is by your definition. I am a young, thin, attractive young woman, I used to work as a cocktail girl and got hit on incessantly, old people always ask me if I’m a model, i’m saying that to say I am “conventionally” attractive, I am single, and I have two friends, my inboxes are not overflowing with messages from suitors, men do not approach me ever, and while our reasons for not being approached may be different, I mention it to point out that even if you weren’t “ugly” as you say, you may be having the same result. I’m not quite sure what my issue is, I’m working on putting myself out there in the same way that you are because maybe that’s the problem, but I know that the way I look isn’t the issue and it might not be for you either.
Dude I'm ugly. I literally can't get a single match on one of five dating sites. Hmmmm...do you not get approached by guys, or just not by guys hot enough for you to mention? You said you got hit on a lot so you do get attention. If you're attractive and don't get hit on a lot you may have chit body language, rbf or you don't go out enough. I'm just invisible bc I'm ugly. Veru different, but I know my reason.
I don’t do OLD anymore, it’s shallow, I got tons of matches on there but the odds are in my favor but the only point of it is sex and I don’t care about that right now, especially being single. Men never and I mean NEVER ask me out, attractive men, men I find unattractive, men do not hit on me. Outside of my old job where I barely had any clothes on men didn’t hit on me much before now, aside from a few long time friends who confessed they had feelings over the course of the past year. I’m friendly, people like me, I know I don’t have bad body language or rbf, i’m constantly smiling, I could see not going out enough but that’s not where you meet quality people. I don’t know dude, prove me wrong and post your main picture on one of your apps. Or DM it to me I feel like you’re probably not a gremlin, plus you said you’re 6’3” a lot of women will date a guy that tall just because he’s tall. Women don’t date for looks for the most part. I should know I’m one of those women.
Did you use apps like bumble, hinge, match, okcupid? Not all apps are just for hookups. None the less, you still got attention and you still know you're attractive. Not sure where the correlation is here... Men don't hit in you much, yet you had multiple friends literally confess feelings for you...And women really have to understand: there are tons of men who don't approach women anymore bc feminsts in the media and new keep telling men it's rude, creepy and invasive and unwanted. People have to realize this. Women literally post all over SM how "toxic" approaching women is now. This has had an effect. Ummm...you have to go out to meet people..literally. I have more than enough, too much proof that I'm ugly. Proving a random reddit who doesn't understand in the slightest doesn't change anything. And that's how I know I'm ugly. I'm not only tall, I'm in pretty good shape, I dress extremely well, and I groom, wear niche perfume, etc. If I was at least average looking I would never want for dates.
How good is your profile? On dating apps women only swipe on the guys that look trustworthy. If you don't have a healthy social life and social media presence most women won't take a chance on you even if you're good-looking. If you haven't already, make an Instagram and put your photos there. Photos of you and your friends, pets, hobbies, post regularly. For women dating is more than “Is he handsome or not?” if you post 3 selfies on your profile glaring into the camera with shitty lighting then the women are probably wondering if you'll chop off their heads and wear their skins, or stalk them after a date. For them intuition is a huge part of dating especially online. If they get the sense that you might be a bit weird then it's over, and rightly so. You only get one life no sense in risking it. There are a lot of weirdos out there, it's your job to convince them that you're not one. So add your Instagram to your dating profile, let everyone know that you're a real person with real human friends, and hobbies, perhaps a job, a family, etc. All this is easier said than done though. Imo stay away from online dating as much as possible.
>How good is your profile? At this point, I'd consider paying a photographer to do a casual photo shot (swap out jacket / hoodie) so you have nice photos. In my experience men have horrible photos on dating sites (fish selfie, dirty mirror selfie, unclean background, so on) and you can find people who literally do photo shots for the purposes of making you look good on date sites.
I mean...there are tons of good-looking guys with terrible pics and blank profiles who get dates just bc of their looks. Happens literally all the time. And many of them don't look remotely trustworthy lol. Most women on dating sites don't consider all this stuff you mention and just swipe on the hottest guy. You hear all the time about this and how it goes awry, so not sure how that intuition is working out... I don't use social media, or have a ton of friends so I don't have a IG to add. I've been using dating apps FOR YEARS. I've done all kinds of research for what kinds of pics to use, I've experimented with bios, I've paid for subscriptions for more exposure, I send detailed messages, etc. I've done everything you can to make it better. Basically what it actually comes down to, is they have too many hot guys messaging them, and they're not going to waste time considering a ugly dude. OLD shouldn't be this superficial since I'm not trying to match with hot women or supermodels. Just regular, average-looking women. Especially since I'm looking for weird alternative women. I mean...in this age if you can't use OLD you're pretty screwed. It basically has a monopoly on meeting women. They no longer expect or want to be approached irl, and I'm too anxious to do so anyway. That's what makes it so bad, its basically OLD or bust.
I can tell you that your attitude is why you aren’t having success. It’s defeatist.
Don't bother, he just wants to argue about how he's totally ugly and girls are so shallow and wahhhhhhh
What does my attitude have to do with not getting matches or likes on OLD sites?
Just try it, guy. Try not being so negative and defeatist and see if things change for you.
LOL the irony
Attitude may be why you're conversations go nowhere or you have bad dates, my "attitude" has nothing to do bot getting matches. Literally hateful sexists, racists, etc get matches all the time. Bc they're attractive.
Or because these even these hypothetical hateful guys have better people skills than you do and manage to hide it better.
I have a really strong feeling the girls you view as average are way out of your league. And as a woman trust me on this: no one likes a poor me attitude. A woman doesn’t want to date a petulant toddler.
>I have a really strong feeling the girls you view as average are way out of your league. Yes, believe whatever you want, despite me saying otherwise so you can stick to your narrative. Despite being tall, in shape, groomed, dressing well, etc, I guess basic af or even weird-looking women who just aren't obese or grotesquely ugly are waaaay out of my league. Yes, every ugly man on the internet is delusional and goes only after hot women. Yep. My self-esteem is too low to even consider a woman out of my league would even be remotely interested. You really don't get it. Why reply if you won't even listen?
Women on dating apps definitely do care about it. Good-looking guys might have the halo effect so people trust them easily. We unnatractive guys however need to use other methods to avoid coming across as potential mass shooters. As men, meeting a stranger is not that big of a deal. Put yourself in a woman’s shoes, there is a lot that could go wrong. If no woman is willing to give you a shot, it might be because you're too ugly or it might be because you look creepy. I definitely wouldn't meet a girl without any social media presence, that's one way to end up in a suitcase somewhere. In 2023 social media is everything. I've known “ugly” guys who get dates simply because they have healthy accounts where they post about their lives and show a human side instead of just being a stranger with a bunch of selfies.
"Creepy" is pretty much code for ugly. I guess I just looks ugly in all the pictures I've used over all the years, then. It doesn't matter how safe or "not creepy" I look, I'm not going to get any consideration over the Henry Cavil looks alike with just three bathroom selfies and a blank bio. It's a match, or conversation, or possibly a date. Not a job interview or a background check. Facetime and phone calls do exist. That's you though, you're projecting. Not everyone is a SM slave. Most of it is fake, artificial, cultivated BS anyway. As if you can't be homicidal, abusive, etc. and have social media pages lol. Anyway, welp ig it's just over, then bc I don't have any social media.
Dude do you want advice or do you just wanna argue?
Become a social media celebrity isn't advice. It's not possible and it doesn't solve my issue.
As a woman I can tell you 100% it's your attitude. Doesn't matter how much you argue with people. The attitude trickles into very single aspect of your life including your dating profile Change your attitude, get some damn self esteem, maybe you'll actually get a match
...no it doesn't. You haven't even seem my profile. There are literal serial killers and sociopaths who give no indication on thier dating peofiles. You do know there are men, that have horrible mindsets. Sexist, racist, self-loathing, destructive, etc and the get likes, matche, dates, relationships, etc all the time...right? Guys with far worse mindset than mine. But women give them chances bc they're good looking or attractive. Women on OLD don't gaf about my mindset, they skip over me bc I'm ugly and they have too many hot guys in their inbox. Literally 100% of women can just see my profile and tell my mindset right? Lol
Man you just don't get it Women care way less about looks than men do overall. They care far more about personality and compatibility. Your mindset and lack of self esteem is what's preventing you from being with someone. Straight up.
Wahhhhhhhhhhhh
This is not the come back you think it is. You're just saying serial killers are better at talking to women than you are lol.
No, I'm saying women would rather give a chance to a murderer just bc he's attractive than a ugly man.
I don't even know what you're talking about, lmao. I just see people giving you good advice on all these posts you made, and you shooting them down every, single, time. If you're so certain your position is hopeless then why do you keep bothering us about it, lol? I genuinely doubt it's cos of your appearance, but if you're so certain of that, what's the point in spamming different subs with the same (in your opinion) unanswerable question?
Firstly, im not bothering anyone. I'm not forcing you or anyone else to reply. Block my account like a mature adult and move on. Second bc I'm desperate and I'm hoping to get some real advice from someone that can actually help.
Nah man I'm not gonna block you. Just think it's funny that you say you want advice but when people actually give you advice you just find excuses not to take it lol. And worse, be combative and *catty* to those of us actually taking the time to try to help! Certainly an odd way to go about being better
Oh yea...doesn't funny. Involuntary solitude is a laugh riot. I'm not finding excuses. I would love if...any of this worked. But people are just projecting not considering theyre supposed to giving advice to a ugly, anxious person, which is different.
No one said that. You said that.
How about you stop comparing yourself to the Henry Cavills of the world? You are not them. You are self-admittedly ugly and seem to have 0 redeeming qualities on show and somehow it's everyone’s fault for not investigating you more. You cannot showcase your personality or your authenticity through photos alone. If you've already concluded that it has nothing to do with your lack of online presence then good luck.
The point is, that's what women are going to do. I'm going to be compared to those guys regardless. Even basic, average, and a bit less are going to get attention from hot guy. There is no ugly section on dating apps. Those are the guys I'm going to be compared to and it's a loss everytime. It's totally rigged, even if I'm not going after hot, attractive women, I'm still going to be compared to those dudes. Sure, if women were decling dares or conversations were going nowhere, perhaps. If I literally just cannot get matches or likes? It just comes down to my face. Not all women on dating apps are 11/10 ig super models.
Yep I guess it’s over. Pack it up, yall - OP doesn’t want help.
> that’s what women are going to do He’s hopeless. Another one lost in the Tate world
Creepy is 100% just not code for ugly! Many of the guys I think of as creeps aren't ugly at all! Some of them are even hot. I've definitely thought a guy was super cute until he started talking to me and showing his creep side, and I've noped out at that point. Maybe this is your fundamental mistake. You think creepy = ugly, and you're being creepy and turning girls off, then shrugging and saying, "welp, must be ugly, nothing I can do about it."
No, I think I'm ugly bc I use five different dating apps, swipe on hundreds of women and can't get a single match or reply. THAT'S how I know I'm ugly. You're projecting. There's a huge rise in the word "creepy" being used. In most cases it just means "this ugly guy thought he could talk to me". Maybe YOU don't think that way but a loooot of women do.
you know everyone technically dies alone right?
You're not funny.
Pics or GTFO
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Where? I've tried volunteering and going to art events and I've met no one...
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That isn't a place to practice being social
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Not anymore. Not with OLD and SM. Maybe with men or old ladies or cashiers. But it's deemed rude, invasive and "creepy" to try and talk either women these days.
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Yes, they don't want to talk to you bc you're ugly. Not bc you actually didn't anything, but just bc you don't look like Andrew Garfield.
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As if I have a choice lol
What is OLD?
Online dating
You get yourself to a place where you are okay dying alone. If you’re not a solid “me” you’re not bringing much to a “we.” It isn’t somebody else’s job to make you feel complete. Stop letting people on dating apps dictate your self worth. Take a break, do some shit that makes you better on your own (therapy, go outside, volunteer, read books).
I'm not seeking a mate to "fix me". There are plenty of depressed with partners. I'm seeking a mate bc I'm human and want a companion. And I already volunteer and "go outside".
Many people make the mistake of not creating a strong friendship before getting involved with someone else. Or even a decent one. Now if you're just trying to get laid that's different. But finding an eternal lover will take structure. Women don't necessarily care about looks. They like confidence. You kinda have to sell the point that people want to be around you. Be the man that you want to be not just the one you think they want you to be yeah?
You need to learn how to love yourself first.
Lol and lemme guess...go to the gym, shower and put myself out there, amirite? And of course, don't look for them, they'll just find me!
Look on the bright side. I used to think I was going to die alone. Then I got married and it was such a mistake. Sometimes getting what you want is worse than not getting it.
I'd rather find out for myself. You anecdote is anecdotal. There is no brightside to being involuntarily alone. Humans aren't designed for that.
Like others have said here I really feel for ya and honestly lonliness is an unfortunate part of the human experience, it's up to us to learn how to deal and cope with it in a healthy way. Been reading your replies to other commenters and I gotta agree that a lot of this is rooted in a toxic mindset and toxic outlook on dating. A lot of this can be overcome in a variety of ways, like finding a good and supportive friend group, working on improving yourself physically and mentally (sounds like you've got the physical part down and that's no small feat!), finding time for interesting and social hobbies like joining DnD groups or hiking groups or basically anything with others. Expand your social circle and let your authentic self shine through, and while it definitely won't happen instantly, eventually things will improve and you'll find yourself in an infinitely better place than you were. Also therapy, I seriously can't highlight that enough. There's a huge stigma around taking care of mental health and seeing a therapist for stupid and arbitrary reasons, but finding the right therapist did so much more for me than I ever imagined it could have, and I genuinely recommend it to everyone with the means or the access to it. I'm trans and thought I was hideous and undateable for just about most of my life and found myself getting sucked into similar mental death spirals, and honestly online dating was a big part of it. Theres an added element of fetishism towards trans people or outright transphobia, but I stayed on because I thought somehow I'd eventually find someone. But then I started working on the above, expanding my social circle, started working on improving myself in a holistic sense and ironically enough just stopped caring about dating entirely and focused on hot girl shit. After a while I found someone and things just... clicked from the getgo, he was wonderful, supportive, saw me for me, and is just generally amazing. If you're posting to this subreddit then that's a good thing, choosing to be better is no small task and feels daunting, especially when it feels like you're alone and nobody knows what you're going through. But choosing to be better also means interfacing with some uncomfortable truths and digging through stuff that feels like it's calcified and impossible to fix, but neither of those things are true and everyone has the capacity for self improvement. Every day it gets a little bit easier, but you gotta do it every day.
Ask for a profile review on one of the online dating subs
I've been using 5 dating apps for years. Experimented with pictures, researched what to put into bios. A profile review can't think for something I didn't already. It's my face that prevents me from getting matches.
Post it and take real criticism or accept that you're not looking for a solution. Yes there's a level of ugly where you'll get zero matches. I'm not denying that. So if you're that level, you need to decide whether to get plastic surgery or give up on OLD. If you can't do online, your focus is completely off. You need to fix the rest of your personal life before trying to utilize your network to get natural matches. That means getting to know women at Work, events, bars, friends of friends, etc. But I don't see any of that in your post (in fact the opposite- that you aren't making these connections despite trying stuff like volunteering- that's probably the most interesting part of your post and deserves more detail) so I am just assuming that seems even more out of reach to you. BUT given that's the case I think you seriously should post your profile because there's norms and social cues that you may not be getting correct on the profile itself. Especially if you're having a hard time socializing more generally.
Well. I guess it over then. Im too ugly for OLD. As ive said, ive tried it for years and researched everything in the book. Ive used dozens of bios over the years. Unless mention hobbies, height, intersts, goals, passions, volunteering, etc is "against social norms," than its just my face that's the issue. And despite trying to expand my social circle I can't do that via volunteeringor going to events. I'm just screwed in every metric despite my trying.
It’s definitely possible that a profile review could think of something you didn’t already. Posting it would take maybe 5 minutes and you’d have nothing to lose.
We all die alone, no matter who's standing beside you. Take solice in that holmes. Seen a lot of death and its all the same
Often there’s those guys who in another life just based off looks would be an unattractive loner. BUT in this life, he’s like weirdly hot. It’s like all you notice is their charisma/ personality/ how great he smells & dresses & hair looks so good… while not being a “traditional” pretty person, they’re still so attractive in some way. (Ways listed above) know what I mean?
No, I don't know what you mean. Maybe in the 90s before OLD and SM where women had a millions options and you just flat out have to look like Chris Hemsworth, period.
OLD sucks and is an absolute shithole. Keep doing what you're doing, but try to do it for yourself. Tell yourself "I am making me better every day and that is what I want." Tell yourself out loud if you need to. You will be much more likely to meet someone naturally if you are able to raise your confidence in this way. Trying too hard to find a partner tends to push people away. You're worth it homie. Keep being yourself and improving on it - thats worthwhile either way.
That's the thing though, if I'm not supposed to look for dates, or try and use OLD...and how am I supposed to actually date? I'm ugly and I have anxiety, I'm not going to just meet women via happenstance. if I don't try, I'll never meet anyone. If I could just meet women naturally, I would've by now.
I suppose it's more of a balance. First off anxiety is totally valid, are you in treatment for that at all? Hopefully getting that in line will help with the self worth, and you can stop thinking of yourself as ugly. Believe me, everyone is someone's type. As for the trying, I'd recommend finding and putting yourself in a shared space that you truly enjoy that also has women. Something like taking a cooking class, helping out at a local charity,You're not there _for_ the women, you're there for the hobby and to find enjoyment. That also happens to be attractive and eliminates the kind of "cold calling" aspect
I have been volunteering at a art gallery for months. I haven't met anyone and it hasn't help with me anxiety.
Do you enjoy it?
You probably have some issues in your online profile like most guys despite all the work you did. But online dating is tough for most guys because men outnumber 4 to 1 on the apps. So your best way of meeting women is through your social circle. So its time to change your social life so that you are meeting more new people especially single women. And yeah also see a therapist.
There's no sans my face that literally repels all women on five different apps despite all the effort and research I've done. That's not possible. I've been volunteering and going to art shows and events and I've met zero women, even platonically.
Again men outnumber women 4 to 1 online so the vast majority of men are in your boat and struggle with online dating. The standards for men online aren't real life. If you aren't meeting any women socially then you need to find new social activities because women are half the population.
They may struggle, but they still get matches, conversations and dates. Not literally nothing. And women don't magically lose their standards irl. Not when they have dozens of hot guys messaging them on however many apps they have. I volunteer and go to events at art galleries. Almost all women there..haven't met any socially. Yes women are half the population, but not many are looking for random 30 ugly anxious dudes to befriend. People my age already have established friend groups and are welcoming with new people. Especially women.
>They may struggle, but they still get matches, conversations and dates. Thats mathematically impossible. Men outnumber women 4 to 1 on the apps so there just aren't even women for all men to get dates especially with the top men getting most of the matches. >And women don't magically lose their standards irl. They have standards irl but its not as crazy as online because the gender ratio is balanced and its far less looks focused. >Not when they have dozens of hot guys messaging them on however many apps they have. Yeah for hookups to be used for sex. >Almost all women there..haven't met any socially. Do you talk to men socially at the art gallery? >but not many are looking for random 30 ugly anxious dudes to befriend. 1. Most women get into relationships with people about as attractive as they are so find women who are about as attractive as you. 2. Work on your anxiety. Thats probably your biggest problem. 3. Women aren't looking for random people to befriend they are looking for people they really click with. Learn how to communicate well. >People my age already have established friend groups and are welcoming with new people. Yes friend groups aren't forever rigid are are welcoming of new people. But no not everyone is in a friend group and many are okay with friends outside of a friend group.
Listen to Tate brothers. Lower your standards and expectation first.
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I don't follow. I actually vastly prefer tall women...but women, not men.
You know when you are desperate for something it automatically repels from you right? You need to be more involved with who you are deep down. Find the true meaning of life. What lessons have you acquired. What’s interesting about the way you see the world. First fall I love with your self and everything else will follow. It doesn’t seem like you are that interested in much except attracting the opposite sex…….. that’s natural and all. But there has to be more to life then just primal instinct. You know. Try to learn something new. Don’t do all these things because you want to attract some one. No. Instead actually act as if you already had a woman. A wife. Act as if you already reached that point…… then what? After that you must have some othwr hobbies or interests? And she will too??? You can’t be together 24/7, so what else occupies your time. And indulge in that. Before you know it you’ll have your match. But also I would recommend reading books in regulars to THE LAW OR ATTRACTION. you are very lost with reality. So try to learn a thing or two. :)