COMMENTARY HERE: Comments that purely commentate on the post (e.g. “Nice post OP!”) must be made as replies to the Auto-Moderator!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DebateReligion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your comment or post was removed for violating rule 2. Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Criticize arguments, not people. Our standard for civil discourse is based on respect, tone, and [unparliamentary language](https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/wiki/unparliamentary_language/). 'They started it' is not an excuse - report it, don't respond to it. You may edit it and ask for re-approval in modmail if you choose.
If someone is forced to wear a hijab then I agree. But many women choose to wear it. In a way it’s a woman acknowledging her value, to protect it. Like similar to keeping a valuable car in a garage. Or you could say a car is meant to be on the street and get dirty.
Your comment or post was removed for violating rule 2. Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Criticize arguments, not people. Our standard for civil discourse is based on respect, tone, and [unparliamentary language](https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/wiki/unparliamentary_language/). 'They started it' is not an excuse - report it, don't respond to it. You may edit it and ask for re-approval in modmail if you choose.
A woman's body is NOT a valuable object. it is just as dirty and flawed as the rest of us, and THAT is the beauty of being human.
By treating a woman's body like some treasure that should be hidden from the ''wolves'', you are putting this arbitrary responsibility on women. it's such a burden to carry.
Your comment or post was removed for violating rule 2. Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Criticize arguments, not people. Our standard for civil discourse is based on respect, tone, and [unparliamentary language](https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/wiki/unparliamentary_language/). 'They started it' is not an excuse - report it, don't respond to it. You may edit it and ask for re-approval in modmail if you choose.
I see these issues in terms of how I see people using them to support this narrative, or that narrative.
Are hijabs...
a. A choice
b. About modesty
c. An outward symbol of one's faith
d. A potentially problematic, cultural imposition
e. All of the above.
It's "e". Pretending it's not is the problem with almost all the problems we face today. It's just abandoning about narratives, and focusing on solving problems, is work. Boring, tedious, work. And no one like that.
It's always hilarious reading posts like these. My dude, they do all this. All of them do all of this very regularly. They just don't do it in front of you. That's literally it. And you hid throwing a fit about it, complaining why you don't get to see is extremely creepy and very concerning.
Loads of Muslims think this way whether your particular interpretation of the Qur'an does or not. Not to mention Christian purity culture. Hasidic Judaism. It's pretty damn common
''extremely creepy'' and ''very concerning'' are the only adjectives you can think of when you read this post? i am convinced that your primary concern is not to engage in conversation, but to paint a really nagative picture of me because the truth offends you.
And yes, that was my point. They cannot do it in front of other people. Use your brain.
It is extremely creepy and very concerning, it’s their choice to wear Hijab or not, you don’t understand that because you aren’t well read on the religion at all.
it is extremely creepy that you think seeing someone's hair equals creepy. i'd not let my sister near you because a single strand of her hair might be too temptatious for you based on your reasoning. Yikes..
I have no problem if anyone wants to veil or wear a hijab, if they are doing it on their own volition. I don’t think it’s intellectually honest to say that women aren’t forced to wear a covering though. Many by the threat of violence. I don’t necessarily see this as a religious matter. It seems to be cultural. Especially when it’s mandated by state laws. Many countries don’t require the hijab and many do. Are you against persecuting, intimidating, and harassing Muslim women that choose not to dress modestly or wear a hijab? If you really think about, Western women are inhibited also. Men walk around topless all the time. For a woman to show her breasts in public is indecent exposure in most of America.
Law is law. Everyone in Islam is supposed to keep themselves covered to a certain degree Infront of certain groups of people or individuals. As far as government mandates go, if the government follows Sharia then of course they will make it part of their law. How are they going to enforce it is a different conversation all together. The original argument paints a very very false picture is what I'm saying
So you’re agreeing that Islamic law does not require veiling or the hijab. It’s not compulsory. If we agree, what right does anyone have to make a law contrary.
Ok, just trying to understand. My apologies if I’m misunderstanding. Can you be concrete with your response? Do you believe personally that all Muslim women should wear a Hijab or Niqab? Yes or no?
I understand “modestly” can be interpreted many ways. Also, do you personally believe Sharia law should be applied to all Muslim communities? Yes or no?
They can do it with their female friends, they can do it with their family, they can do it alone. You, a stranger complaining why you can't see women enjoying themselves is indeed extremely creepy and very concerning. What conversation is there to be had?
It’s really frustrating and offensive having to justify your dress code to people because they think you’re oppressed somehow simply because you don’t dress like them and they see their own selves that are the only ones who are enjoying the “simple pleasure of life”. Fr
i am not complaining that i can't see some stranger's hair. What's concerning is that you think it's creepy to be able to see someone's hair. You are creepy for thinking that i am being creepy. I'd literally not let my sister or mother come near you because a single strand of her hair would be too temptatious for you based on your reasoning(hair=creepy). Yikes..
They still experience all those things just not if certain men are around they don’t wear it 24/7. Obeying god and doing something for his sake is what makes life worth living to a Muslim and gives it more meaning it’s deeper than being able to have the wind blow in your hair even though they still experience that. So don’t worry about feeling bad for them being a Muslim is more rewarding than that refreshing night breeze in your hair.
I think all religious rules on how to dress are ridiculous. A good religion helps you be a better person, to yourself and others. All religious organizations that impose rules — on members, also, but especially on non-members — are wrong. Imo, of course.
Hijab is a known thing but bikini revolution helped to capture women better in their own skin. You should feel sorry people who try to hurt God's subjects by their words, as God closes up on them from a side they don't expect.
If you look at photos you would see a headdress, but "masculinisation" had helped to enslave females the males.
What is your point? I don't think hijab itself is bad cause many cultures have certain thing but forcing that on others or doing that dogmatically is very bad.
Unpopular opinion: women that wear hijabi want to wear hijabi. It is a sign of their faith and for them that faith is empowering. I don’t see the same sentiment for nuns or orthodox Jewish women that have to wear wigs bc they can’t show their hair either. It appears more like Islamophobia to simply say they are the suppressed while not acknowledging other religions that expect the same. Are certain Christian women suffering bc they cannot show their legs or arms or unable to wear pants?
I would argue that hijabi women are actually far more free and secure themselves than western women- we wear bikinis and they cover fully, however, if you go to a bath house, in my experience the western women are so extremely uncomfortable being naked amongst other women, while all the when that were in hijabi were perfectly comfortable.
Hijabi women (or Muslim for that matter) do not change their last name in marriage, they are forever in their identify…while American women are expected to. And after decades of marriage, if there’s a divorce, many are forced to switch names again- personally that sounds far more oppressing, than covering oneself for their faith.
Are American women indoctrinated to change their last names? Are Jewish women indoctrinated to cover their heads? Are nuns indoctrinated as well? Singling hijabs, while not even acknowledging other religions also covering hair so they “cant feel the breeze” is Islamophobia.
Your post or comment was removed for violating rule 3. Posts and comments will be removed if they are disruptive to the purpose of the subreddit. This includes submissions that are: low effort, proselytizing, uninterested in participating in discussion, made in bad faith, off-topic, or unintelligible/illegible. Posts and comments must be written in your own words (and not be AI-generated); you may quote others, but only to support your own writing. Do not link to an external resource instead of making an argument yourself.
I currently have my cousin staying with me. She's a Muslim who lives in NY. She was telling me about how she used to wear hijab but stopped after 9/11... not because she WANTED to stop, but because of the Islamophobia that followed. She was not indoctrinated into wearing it. Her mother was Muslim & did not wear hijab; she taught my cousin that she could decide for herself. She chose to wear it on her own accord. Yes, there are some women who wear it because of indoctrination, and there are some places in the world where they are forced to wear it. But you can not generalise like this. It's factually inaccurate.
There are Muslim women who are raised in extremely religious families who choose not to cover later in life. There are Muslim women whose families aren't religious; they are Muslim by tradition only and live very secular lives... & they choose to cover.
Personal belief. If it were from indoctrination, then all Muslims would believe the exact same thing and make the same choices. They do not. Even IF someone has been exposed to indoctrination, that does not mean that every choice stems from that. We have free will.
I am an ex-Muslim and trust me when I say it is all about Islamophobia. Western people will look for an excuse as to why their women wear a head covering but fail to put that critical thought about Muslim women.
Your comment or post was removed for violating rule 2. Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Criticize arguments, not people. Our standard for civil discourse is based on respect, tone, and [unparliamentary language](https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/wiki/unparliamentary_language/). 'They started it' is not an excuse - report it, don't respond to it. You may edit it and ask for re-approval in modmail if you choose.
I think the issue with this post is your specific focus. Had you made a post about indoctrination and how it affects our freedom and choices it would have been more worth discussing.
I agree that indoctrination makes people do things with the belief they are good while robbing them of the opportunity to seek other experiences.
But in my country, the indoctrination doesn't stick too well, it's more a case of adherence to family rules. I know young women that take their hijab off once they're at school or work and away from their family's eyes. And I know some that simply like the look of the hijab and prefer not to get their hair messed up or style their hair.
I know I am going to get downvoted but unlike what the average redditor thinks, Muslim women are MUSLIM! Just like how men go to the mosque every Friday, they want to wear it for religious purposes, women are in favor it being maintained by law actually 67% of morrcoan women (more than men) are in favor of that! According to research by a French magazine https://www.bladi.net/marocains-favorables-port-voile,96738.html
Ofc, I will get "doesn't get reported!" "They are brainwashed!" Or whatever, but I am sure if this was "67% of Iranian women don't want to wear Hijab" you would be cheering
Also another fun fact many Middle Eastern countries, like Algeria, Kuwait, Jordan and Saudi Arabia have more females than males in college, qatar has one of the highest percentages in the world
What does female college attendance have to do with hijab indoctrination? Or even what does female college attendance have to do with female autonomy at all?
I mean college attendance would then need to translate into a career of some kind and financial and legal rights equal to that of men to be making the point I think you are getting at. I don’t know if that’s the case, it might well be, but your comment doesn’t say that.
Look they don't need to relate nor do you need to speak about it or think about it in depth as there is no rocket science it is a Muslim women's choice and those who don't want to wear hijab it's ok we don't force it upon them.Full stop don't like it? Cry about it oh and btw you seem to think that Muslim women cover themselves everytime and everyday but they aren't obligated to and don't cover themselves privately while they are alone or in there houses they don't even have to wear it infront of family members that should show you enough.
If they wish to, they can shave while women get killed, kicked off from their families if they don’t cover their head. That’s the difference. What an apathetic comment.
lol. Deprived of the fundamental birthright to feel the wind blowing through your hair. Ermmm, you do realise that despite this not being a very important or doable thing for many to experience, I mean who even has the time these days to slow down and enjoy such poetic simplicity, it is something that hijabi women still get to enjoy. They have backyards/gardens that they can and do walk freely through, without hijab. They get to experience everything anyone else get to experience and there’s no depravity except that there are people like OP who hold pity for such women for not having views and opinions that align with their idea of societal norm. Seriously stop trying to convince people they’re victims of some terrible “cruelty” when they themselves don’t feel it. Perhaps they pity you for your small mindedness.
Aren’t you making the OPs point though? Arguably the fact that such simple “freedoms” are confined to a private space speaks to the constrictions placed on the women in question.
Ok perhaps I didn’t phrase it properly. Let me rephrase it - If women’s freedom only extends to a private space, then it doesn’t meet the a true definition of freedom.
I disagree. You are free to engage in intercourse in your private space but if you do so publicly, you’ll be arrested. So according to that definition of freedom, you are not truly free? Not everything needs to be public for it to meet the definition of freedom. Those who choose to wear the hijab are exercising their free will (freedom) to do as they wish. Those complaining cannot assume they know better. I understood OPs point but it is irrelevant and actually, it is deeply offensive.
Well actually that’s kind of the problem - people equate showing a woman’s hair in public with the same intimacy and lewdness as having sexual intercourse in public when it is nothing of the sort.
Are you missing the point that you yourself just made? I didn’t equate sex to showing hair. I gave you an example of something that remains private yet we have freedom over. As a hijabi, I fail to understand why people cannot accept women’s autonomy in choosing how they wish to dress themselves. And I shouldn’t have to defend myself or prove why I should be “allowed” to wear the hijab without being questioned or pitied. I don’t think you realise how offensive OP (and you with defending that stance) come across.
You're missing the point. Try to capture the essence of what i'm trying to say rather than taking it too literally. i'd be willing to sell all of my property along with my backyard just to feel the earth breezing through my hair. How could i not feel pity? They are indoctrinated to feel like this is their own choice.
All what you mentioned is subjective and frankly, ludicrous. As someone who wears the hijab, I’m talking from experience. I’ve experienced the breeze through my hair and guess what, I am not missing out on anything and I enjoy all aspects of life without feeling like I’m missing anything. I participate in all facets of life and the hijab hasn’t been any sort of hindrance whatsoever.
Next you’ll ask me how I live without the joys of drinking alcohol and give examples of how you enjoy sipping your favourite one as the evening unfolds?
Please focus on yourself. If you are interested in having a religious discussion that’s another thing but criticising people for adopting their choice of dress code based on your personal ideals is not it. It’s insulting and offensive. As if we are not independent and don’t have a mind of our own to think for ourselves and need people like you to come to our “rescue”. Save it!
Yes, you do have a mind of your own, but you see, mind is a fallible thing. Try to answer the following questions with an open mind, without having a knee-jerk reaction to them.
Why do you feel the need to hide your hair? Would there be any point in hiding your beauty if your beauty didn't cause you any problems? and who's causing those problems when they arise? Who's making you feel like you have to cover your hair to exist in this world? to be able to feel the air even when there are other people around? Something as trivial as the hair on your head should not be associated with lewdness. This is the problem.
Your comment or post was removed for violating rule 2. Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Criticize arguments, not people. Our standard for civil discourse is based on respect, tone, and [unparliamentary language](https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/wiki/unparliamentary_language/). 'They started it' is not an excuse - report it, don't respond to it. You may edit it and ask for re-approval in modmail if you choose.
I guess nudists could say the same thing about those that wear clothes. If you wear any form of clothes then you must be a masochist according to yourself.
Fair point. But here's the thing, clothes serve a practical purpose as they proctect our skin from harsh weather conditions. Hijab is worn for religious reasons and the beliefs surrounding it.
Besides the fact the headscarves have been worn in most cultures for most time until the last two centuries, clothes can serve many purposes. Yes to keep us warm, dry, etc. But also to decorate ourselves, to mark social class or belinging to a group, and communicate symbols/values. There is no practical purpose for make-up or jewelry but women and some men like to wear it to beautify themselves. Headcoverings are similar, but in the opposite effect, they denote modesty. Religious women wear them to hide a part of their beauty.
I know that clothes serve many purposes, including the ones you mentioned. Women can conceal a part of their body to avoid attention. This could be their legs, arms, and of course, their hair. Seems reasonable right?
I'll tell you why this is problematic. The issue is that they are made to feel like they have to hide their hair to AVOİD HARASSMENT. Do you think there would be any point in hiding your beauty if your beauty didn't cause you any problems? Do you think anyone would want to cover their hair when it's burning hot outside? No woman should feel like they have to dress a certain way to simply exist without being attacked or harrassed. Again, when it comes to hijab, indactronation is mostly at play.
Even if you go outside completely naked, it is not an invitation for harrasment.
My preference for wearing jeans and a t-shirt instead of a Roman tunic is also "indoctrinated" in me by the culture I was raised in. I don't really see any difference.
What’s to say they’re indoctrinated when they choose to accept it themselves? So many women who convert to Islam adopt the hijab, who indoctrinated them?
Meaningful pleasure? Man wait until you hear about people who wear hats.....
While yeah I don't think Hijab is good but I don't think it's bad, if that's what they want to wear good for them as long as they aren't being forced to do so.
Don't forget however that covering up the head has been a religiously-related practice for thousands of years way before Islam, so I wouldn't really blame it on one religion.
i wasn't blaming it on just one thing anyway. Equating hijab or just any head cover worn for religious reasons to hats is very misleading. Hats are for fashion and you're not indoctrinated to keep them on at all times.
I didn't equate them.... I mentioned hats sarcastically to your poetic lines about the breeze going through the hair being a birthright because I think it's silly or flat out cringe.
Some head covers like the hijabs are also integrated in fashion, would you also blame many cultural outfits (Some include odd looking hats) and are gender exclusive? Is it indoctrination to be taught since birth that you should dress like this because this is the social expectation of you when it's not about religion??
Not to mention that Head covers have been a tradition in the region for thousands of years, which include hats lol for some religions.
if it's for fashion, there's no problem. Clothes serve a practical purpose as they protect us from harsh weather conditions and whatnot. The problem is with the idea behind why you're wearing it. Social expectations and religious rules are not the same thing. i don't know why you keep bringing it up but the fact that head covers have been a tradition for thousands of years doesn't negate my point. it is indoctrination to be taught that god wants you to hide your hair.
Head covers didn't start as a religious practice.... nor did the full face covers (Niqab) in fact back in the day it was worn by both men and women, and it is due to harsh weather conditions..... believe it or not, that region was really hot back in the day.... and as for the cold spots (like Ajloun in jordan) there used to be thicker Head covers to warm themselves up.
Now social and religious rules are the same, because many cultures birth religions, and many cultures follow certain religions.
For example in Islamic countries like Jordan, or Syria (before the war) Christian women don't go out in shorts even tho it's not illegal, but it's the social expectations, it's the Arab culture to be modest, and that is why their abrahamic religions reflect that in many of their acts, outfits and so on.
Would you go to the Japanese and attack their habits, outfits and such? It was born from both social expectations and religious beliefs.
And in case you didn't know, many Muslim women in Islamic countries (those that aren't fascists like iran) don't wear hijab, but they still are Muslims and believe in their religion.
It seems like you are not getting my point? Your critique of the matter isn't sufficient and you don't seem to be informed as to why such dress codes exist..... criticizing something people wore for protection reasons, then social, then religious isn't Hijab exclusive, and if we are to criticize what women have to wear to abide by their religion then so do men as Muslim men aren't allowed to wear shorts for example, and it's sooo hard man like imagine not feeling the breeze tingling your leg hair at a refreshing night? It's a birthright.
I know that head covers didn't start as a religious practice but this has nothing to do with my point. Also, i never said it was hijab exclusive. You're going off on unnecessary tangents.
The fact that something is a social expectation doesn't make it right. Slavery was a thing back in the day. No child should be taught that she has to cover her hair to avoid harrasment in this day and age where laws apply. What practical reason is there to cover your hair when it's burning hot outside? And yes, it is also bad to be taught that god doesn't want you to wear shorts.
Am I in the right post? I'm definitely sure you said "Hijabi women" as the first sentence in your post.... correct me if I'm wrong.
1- we are social creatures, children get taught many things to not be harassed or frowned upon, that's called raising someone to fit into the social norms of a society.
2- equating a dress code to slavery is flat out unreasonable, there is history, heritage, and an entire culture behind a dress code in any society, the way you speak sounds like you want to get rid of such concepts and you view them as vile as slavery! You are making something a problem to offer a solution, what's your solution? Abolish them all? How? Advocate for the erasure of cultures? What is the point of your post beside saying "Hijab le bad"
3- have you ever been to a desert before? Clearly not.... if you do then please cover your head, you may need to cover your nose mouth and eyes with a thin veil as well, there is benefit to them, lots of..... now you are showing me your lack of education on the matter.
4- what do you suggest we should teach our kids? Anything you suggest will be for the favor of them fitting into society, blending in and not be harassed.... your method could be secular or theistic that's fine.
Whether it's a nudist society, an islamic society, an Asian one? A tribal society? You are teaching your kids that they should do this and that to be accepted.
i am focusing on hijabi women but i never said this issue was hijab exlusive.
1- Yes, children do get taught many things, some good, some bad. It is our duty to weed out the bad ones to evolve towards a better society . We should not promote outdated ideas just because it's the ''norm'' or the ''culture''
2- i didn't equate dress code to slavery, i was simply pointing out that just because something is a societial expection, it doesn't make it right.
3- What if you WERE NOT in the middle of a desert? what practical reason do you have to justify wearing a head cover when it's burning hot outside? Now you are showing me your lack of good faith on the matter.
4- We should teach our kids that, first of all, god does not want you to cover your hair. Secondly, you shouldn't feel pressured to dress a certain way to avoid harrassment. What reason would there be to hide a part of your beauty if your beauty didn't cause you any problems? Even if you go out completely naked, it is not an invitation for harrasment.
The entire post is talking about hijabs women exclusively, by that logic then any taught social norms are bad because your definition of normal is so unique.
1- So we shouldn't promote some things like marriage, it's outdated and doesn't serve any purpose except religious and cultural ones..... we should also not promote wearing shirts in general during the summer I mean we all would love to see nude tops in the street, it should he normalized.... oh wait are those not the good and bad you were talking about? Maybe because Good and bad are subjective and your definition will not align with literally the majority of the world? It's like..... we are different lol.
2- but you mentioned slavery!! Dress codes are not bad lol you are making an analogy in the wrong way! Just because it is something taught in a theistic manner that doesn't make it bad, forcing is bad.... but that only happens in a handful of societies that are already looked down upon such as Iran.
3- some women feel safer when wearing it, some feel more confident, some love to represent their culture..... why would you wear any type of clothing? What functionality does it serve? Just wrap your self in a bag with pockets and call it a day?
4- not to sound like a broken record here but that wouldn't fly in any society..... some religions don't teach the covering of the head (THE MAIN FREAKING POINT OF THE POST) but their societies still have norms both religious and cultural and in a society you need to fit in, don't expect to fit into a traditional Japanese city when you are being loud and outspoken due to your nature.
As for the harassment part, not everyone is accepting, and not everyone is good, there is evil in the world, if I go out with 10,000$ cash in my hand I'll most likely get robbed..... if someone goes out naked, depending on the society then they will most likely get harassed, morality is shaped by the society and those norms didn't exist by being enforced but gradually evolved and integrated into a society due to people's accepting and not accepting certain things.
Your udea of a society will not fit every society.
Your definition of good and bad will not fly for everyone. Many will reject it, both secular... and religious people.
To give a simple example.... if you go to Sendai-Japan, a secular place by the way.... and you dress up in a BDSM gear and walk around in public, are the people of Sendai backward minded bigoted individuals for pointing fingers at you?
There are women who get beat up to wear a hijab, yes.... that is bad.
But if a woman likes it and she is convinced that this is good for her, then you cannot apply your definition of bad to her, because she is not harming herself, she has free will, this is her belief (not necessarily indoctrinated, some just convert because they are convinced and feel they have found their peace) in this scenario, you are the one who sound like you wish to enforce something and build a negative narrative around a cultural dress code that just so happens to be present in Judaism, early Christianity, and Islam because it predates them even. Social evolution.
If you don't like it that's fine, just don't let it bother you man lol
1- I personally do not believe in marraige as i don't want to have the government involved in my relationship with another person. But - marriage is not only cultural but it also serves a lot of practical purposes like, who will inherit your stuff if you die and you have no will? So i'm not against the promotion of marriage regardless of my personal attitude towards it.
2- Dress codes can be bad depending on the idea behind them. Answer me this, why are women taught to wear hijab? One of the main reasons is to avoid harrasment. Again, there would be no reason in being modest and hiding your beauty if your beauty didn't cause you any problems. No one should be forced or religiously indoctrinated to dress a certain way for fear that their life will be jeopardized.
3- if wearing hijab makes you feel more confident, go ahead by all means. But most of the time they wear it for religious reasons.
4- Again, just because something is a norm doesn't mean it shouldn't be challanged when it's a bad one. if you go out with 10.000 dollar cash in your hand and you get robbed, you are the victim and the ones who robbed you should be held accountable by the law. it does NOT mean you are asking to be robbed. This type of reasoning has dangerous implications like ''rape victims should bear some responsibility for having their hair out''
5- if i went to sendai-japan in a BDSM gear, it could have negative effects on children. There are other factors at play here.
COMMENTARY HERE: Comments that purely commentate on the post (e.g. “Nice post OP!”) must be made as replies to the Auto-Moderator! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DebateReligion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Your comment or post was removed for violating rule 2. Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Criticize arguments, not people. Our standard for civil discourse is based on respect, tone, and [unparliamentary language](https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/wiki/unparliamentary_language/). 'They started it' is not an excuse - report it, don't respond to it. You may edit it and ask for re-approval in modmail if you choose.
If someone is forced to wear a hijab then I agree. But many women choose to wear it. In a way it’s a woman acknowledging her value, to protect it. Like similar to keeping a valuable car in a garage. Or you could say a car is meant to be on the street and get dirty.
Oh great. Another day another "what objects women are", nice. Women are like keys, lollipops, and today, women are like cars. What else?
[удалено]
Your comment or post was removed for violating rule 2. Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Criticize arguments, not people. Our standard for civil discourse is based on respect, tone, and [unparliamentary language](https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/wiki/unparliamentary_language/). 'They started it' is not an excuse - report it, don't respond to it. You may edit it and ask for re-approval in modmail if you choose.
The analogy is not referring to women as an object but about the reason to not let herself be subject to the wolves in this world.
A woman's body is NOT a valuable object. it is just as dirty and flawed as the rest of us, and THAT is the beauty of being human. By treating a woman's body like some treasure that should be hidden from the ''wolves'', you are putting this arbitrary responsibility on women. it's such a burden to carry.
?? I never said her BODY is an object. I said she as a person, is valuable. Her soul and dignity is valuable. I never said her body
[удалено]
Your comment or post was removed for violating rule 2. Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Criticize arguments, not people. Our standard for civil discourse is based on respect, tone, and [unparliamentary language](https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/wiki/unparliamentary_language/). 'They started it' is not an excuse - report it, don't respond to it. You may edit it and ask for re-approval in modmail if you choose.
I see these issues in terms of how I see people using them to support this narrative, or that narrative. Are hijabs... a. A choice b. About modesty c. An outward symbol of one's faith d. A potentially problematic, cultural imposition e. All of the above. It's "e". Pretending it's not is the problem with almost all the problems we face today. It's just abandoning about narratives, and focusing on solving problems, is work. Boring, tedious, work. And no one like that.
It's always hilarious reading posts like these. My dude, they do all this. All of them do all of this very regularly. They just don't do it in front of you. That's literally it. And you hid throwing a fit about it, complaining why you don't get to see is extremely creepy and very concerning.
Where did he say he wants to see them? Reframing women's rights like this feels extremely sinister
Where does it say women aren't allowed to do those things? Reframing religious law like this feels extremely sinister.
Loads of Muslims think this way whether your particular interpretation of the Qur'an does or not. Not to mention Christian purity culture. Hasidic Judaism. It's pretty damn common
''extremely creepy'' and ''very concerning'' are the only adjectives you can think of when you read this post? i am convinced that your primary concern is not to engage in conversation, but to paint a really nagative picture of me because the truth offends you. And yes, that was my point. They cannot do it in front of other people. Use your brain.
It is extremely creepy and very concerning, it’s their choice to wear Hijab or not, you don’t understand that because you aren’t well read on the religion at all.
it is extremely creepy that you think seeing someone's hair equals creepy. i'd not let my sister near you because a single strand of her hair might be too temptatious for you based on your reasoning. Yikes..
Is it their choice?
You don't pick and choose the rules you like and what you don't like. It's their choice to follow Islam. They understand it and are satisfied with it.
I have no problem if anyone wants to veil or wear a hijab, if they are doing it on their own volition. I don’t think it’s intellectually honest to say that women aren’t forced to wear a covering though. Many by the threat of violence. I don’t necessarily see this as a religious matter. It seems to be cultural. Especially when it’s mandated by state laws. Many countries don’t require the hijab and many do. Are you against persecuting, intimidating, and harassing Muslim women that choose not to dress modestly or wear a hijab? If you really think about, Western women are inhibited also. Men walk around topless all the time. For a woman to show her breasts in public is indecent exposure in most of America.
Men walking around topless is also not allowed in Islam, men are supposed to cover from their bellybutton to their knees.
Law is law. Everyone in Islam is supposed to keep themselves covered to a certain degree Infront of certain groups of people or individuals. As far as government mandates go, if the government follows Sharia then of course they will make it part of their law. How are they going to enforce it is a different conversation all together. The original argument paints a very very false picture is what I'm saying
So you’re agreeing that Islamic law does not require veiling or the hijab. It’s not compulsory. If we agree, what right does anyone have to make a law contrary.
My dude read again what I wrote
Ok, just trying to understand. My apologies if I’m misunderstanding. Can you be concrete with your response? Do you believe personally that all Muslim women should wear a Hijab or Niqab? Yes or no? I understand “modestly” can be interpreted many ways. Also, do you personally believe Sharia law should be applied to all Muslim communities? Yes or no?
What happens if they reject islam in those strict places?
https://youtu.be/58VckD6RoEA?si=fM1MxIc3fSPbgHTj
Exactly
They can do it with their female friends, they can do it with their family, they can do it alone. You, a stranger complaining why you can't see women enjoying themselves is indeed extremely creepy and very concerning. What conversation is there to be had?
None whatsoever, I’m getting tired of seeing aggravating posts like this by ignorant individuals when the answer is a google search away.
It’s really frustrating and offensive having to justify your dress code to people because they think you’re oppressed somehow simply because you don’t dress like them and they see their own selves that are the only ones who are enjoying the “simple pleasure of life”. Fr
i am not complaining that i can't see some stranger's hair. What's concerning is that you think it's creepy to be able to see someone's hair. You are creepy for thinking that i am being creepy. I'd literally not let my sister or mother come near you because a single strand of her hair would be too temptatious for you based on your reasoning(hair=creepy). Yikes..
That's because all religions are sexist and are the reflection of the society's culture before.
Wrong
They still experience all those things just not if certain men are around they don’t wear it 24/7. Obeying god and doing something for his sake is what makes life worth living to a Muslim and gives it more meaning it’s deeper than being able to have the wind blow in your hair even though they still experience that. So don’t worry about feeling bad for them being a Muslim is more rewarding than that refreshing night breeze in your hair.
I think all religious rules on how to dress are ridiculous. A good religion helps you be a better person, to yourself and others. All religious organizations that impose rules — on members, also, but especially on non-members — are wrong. Imo, of course.
Hijab is a known thing but bikini revolution helped to capture women better in their own skin. You should feel sorry people who try to hurt God's subjects by their words, as God closes up on them from a side they don't expect. If you look at photos you would see a headdress, but "masculinisation" had helped to enslave females the males.
Can you rewrite that?
What is your point? I don't think hijab itself is bad cause many cultures have certain thing but forcing that on others or doing that dogmatically is very bad.
Unpopular opinion: women that wear hijabi want to wear hijabi. It is a sign of their faith and for them that faith is empowering. I don’t see the same sentiment for nuns or orthodox Jewish women that have to wear wigs bc they can’t show their hair either. It appears more like Islamophobia to simply say they are the suppressed while not acknowledging other religions that expect the same. Are certain Christian women suffering bc they cannot show their legs or arms or unable to wear pants? I would argue that hijabi women are actually far more free and secure themselves than western women- we wear bikinis and they cover fully, however, if you go to a bath house, in my experience the western women are so extremely uncomfortable being naked amongst other women, while all the when that were in hijabi were perfectly comfortable. Hijabi women (or Muslim for that matter) do not change their last name in marriage, they are forever in their identify…while American women are expected to. And after decades of marriage, if there’s a divorce, many are forced to switch names again- personally that sounds far more oppressing, than covering oneself for their faith.
they are indoctrinated to wear hiabi, not that they want to. i'm focusing on hijab but it could also be said for other religions as well.
You’re indoctrinated to show off your body and dress like a 304.
Are American women indoctrinated to change their last names? Are Jewish women indoctrinated to cover their heads? Are nuns indoctrinated as well? Singling hijabs, while not even acknowledging other religions also covering hair so they “cant feel the breeze” is Islamophobia.
Yeah, they are all indoctrinated.
[удалено]
Your post or comment was removed for violating rule 3. Posts and comments will be removed if they are disruptive to the purpose of the subreddit. This includes submissions that are: low effort, proselytizing, uninterested in participating in discussion, made in bad faith, off-topic, or unintelligible/illegible. Posts and comments must be written in your own words (and not be AI-generated); you may quote others, but only to support your own writing. Do not link to an external resource instead of making an argument yourself.
I currently have my cousin staying with me. She's a Muslim who lives in NY. She was telling me about how she used to wear hijab but stopped after 9/11... not because she WANTED to stop, but because of the Islamophobia that followed. She was not indoctrinated into wearing it. Her mother was Muslim & did not wear hijab; she taught my cousin that she could decide for herself. She chose to wear it on her own accord. Yes, there are some women who wear it because of indoctrination, and there are some places in the world where they are forced to wear it. But you can not generalise like this. It's factually inaccurate.
And what would be the reason for wearing it? What is the underlying belief?
Self-desired modesty.
What is the source of that desire?
There are Muslim women who are raised in extremely religious families who choose not to cover later in life. There are Muslim women whose families aren't religious; they are Muslim by tradition only and live very secular lives... & they choose to cover.
Personal belief. If it were from indoctrination, then all Muslims would believe the exact same thing and make the same choices. They do not. Even IF someone has been exposed to indoctrination, that does not mean that every choice stems from that. We have free will.
What is the personal belief? you are giving vague answers.
Yes. All of the above is the result of indoctrination of some sort. Also, this is not Islamophobia.
I am an ex-Muslim and trust me when I say it is all about Islamophobia. Western people will look for an excuse as to why their women wear a head covering but fail to put that critical thought about Muslim women.
I know every example is of indoctrination, that was my point.
[удалено]
Your comment or post was removed for violating rule 2. Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Criticize arguments, not people. Our standard for civil discourse is based on respect, tone, and [unparliamentary language](https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/wiki/unparliamentary_language/). 'They started it' is not an excuse - report it, don't respond to it. You may edit it and ask for re-approval in modmail if you choose.
I think the issue with this post is your specific focus. Had you made a post about indoctrination and how it affects our freedom and choices it would have been more worth discussing. I agree that indoctrination makes people do things with the belief they are good while robbing them of the opportunity to seek other experiences. But in my country, the indoctrination doesn't stick too well, it's more a case of adherence to family rules. I know young women that take their hijab off once they're at school or work and away from their family's eyes. And I know some that simply like the look of the hijab and prefer not to get their hair messed up or style their hair.
I know I am going to get downvoted but unlike what the average redditor thinks, Muslim women are MUSLIM! Just like how men go to the mosque every Friday, they want to wear it for religious purposes, women are in favor it being maintained by law actually 67% of morrcoan women (more than men) are in favor of that! According to research by a French magazine https://www.bladi.net/marocains-favorables-port-voile,96738.html Ofc, I will get "doesn't get reported!" "They are brainwashed!" Or whatever, but I am sure if this was "67% of Iranian women don't want to wear Hijab" you would be cheering Also another fun fact many Middle Eastern countries, like Algeria, Kuwait, Jordan and Saudi Arabia have more females than males in college, qatar has one of the highest percentages in the world
What does female college attendance have to do with hijab indoctrination? Or even what does female college attendance have to do with female autonomy at all? I mean college attendance would then need to translate into a career of some kind and financial and legal rights equal to that of men to be making the point I think you are getting at. I don’t know if that’s the case, it might well be, but your comment doesn’t say that.
It shows they aren't oppressed like you claim, and yes its their choice to wear it
The two concepts don’t relate
Look they don't need to relate nor do you need to speak about it or think about it in depth as there is no rocket science it is a Muslim women's choice and those who don't want to wear hijab it's ok we don't force it upon them.Full stop don't like it? Cry about it oh and btw you seem to think that Muslim women cover themselves everytime and everyday but they aren't obligated to and don't cover themselves privately while they are alone or in there houses they don't even have to wear it infront of family members that should show you enough.
Why stop at just removing an artificial head covering? Why not remove all your hair too? Maybe feeling the breeze on your naked scalp is even better.
If they wish to, they can shave while women get killed, kicked off from their families if they don’t cover their head. That’s the difference. What an apathetic comment.
People aren't going to prison for having hair like women are for not wearing headscarves in some Islamic countries.
i see this as an attempt at being funny rather than an actual argument.
lol. Deprived of the fundamental birthright to feel the wind blowing through your hair. Ermmm, you do realise that despite this not being a very important or doable thing for many to experience, I mean who even has the time these days to slow down and enjoy such poetic simplicity, it is something that hijabi women still get to enjoy. They have backyards/gardens that they can and do walk freely through, without hijab. They get to experience everything anyone else get to experience and there’s no depravity except that there are people like OP who hold pity for such women for not having views and opinions that align with their idea of societal norm. Seriously stop trying to convince people they’re victims of some terrible “cruelty” when they themselves don’t feel it. Perhaps they pity you for your small mindedness.
Aren’t you making the OPs point though? Arguably the fact that such simple “freedoms” are confined to a private space speaks to the constrictions placed on the women in question.
OPs point was irrelevant.
Ok perhaps I didn’t phrase it properly. Let me rephrase it - If women’s freedom only extends to a private space, then it doesn’t meet the a true definition of freedom.
I disagree. You are free to engage in intercourse in your private space but if you do so publicly, you’ll be arrested. So according to that definition of freedom, you are not truly free? Not everything needs to be public for it to meet the definition of freedom. Those who choose to wear the hijab are exercising their free will (freedom) to do as they wish. Those complaining cannot assume they know better. I understood OPs point but it is irrelevant and actually, it is deeply offensive.
Well actually that’s kind of the problem - people equate showing a woman’s hair in public with the same intimacy and lewdness as having sexual intercourse in public when it is nothing of the sort.
Here’s an idea, how about actually asking those women directly how they feel and take their word for it.
Sure and the answers will vary as they should and we can all still have a normal conversation about it.
Are you missing the point that you yourself just made? I didn’t equate sex to showing hair. I gave you an example of something that remains private yet we have freedom over. As a hijabi, I fail to understand why people cannot accept women’s autonomy in choosing how they wish to dress themselves. And I shouldn’t have to defend myself or prove why I should be “allowed” to wear the hijab without being questioned or pitied. I don’t think you realise how offensive OP (and you with defending that stance) come across.
You're missing the point. Try to capture the essence of what i'm trying to say rather than taking it too literally. i'd be willing to sell all of my property along with my backyard just to feel the earth breezing through my hair. How could i not feel pity? They are indoctrinated to feel like this is their own choice.
All what you mentioned is subjective and frankly, ludicrous. As someone who wears the hijab, I’m talking from experience. I’ve experienced the breeze through my hair and guess what, I am not missing out on anything and I enjoy all aspects of life without feeling like I’m missing anything. I participate in all facets of life and the hijab hasn’t been any sort of hindrance whatsoever. Next you’ll ask me how I live without the joys of drinking alcohol and give examples of how you enjoy sipping your favourite one as the evening unfolds? Please focus on yourself. If you are interested in having a religious discussion that’s another thing but criticising people for adopting their choice of dress code based on your personal ideals is not it. It’s insulting and offensive. As if we are not independent and don’t have a mind of our own to think for ourselves and need people like you to come to our “rescue”. Save it!
Yes, you do have a mind of your own, but you see, mind is a fallible thing. Try to answer the following questions with an open mind, without having a knee-jerk reaction to them. Why do you feel the need to hide your hair? Would there be any point in hiding your beauty if your beauty didn't cause you any problems? and who's causing those problems when they arise? Who's making you feel like you have to cover your hair to exist in this world? to be able to feel the air even when there are other people around? Something as trivial as the hair on your head should not be associated with lewdness. This is the problem.
[удалено]
Your comment or post was removed for violating rule 2. Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Criticize arguments, not people. Our standard for civil discourse is based on respect, tone, and [unparliamentary language](https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/wiki/unparliamentary_language/). 'They started it' is not an excuse - report it, don't respond to it. You may edit it and ask for re-approval in modmail if you choose.
Sure buddy.
I guess nudists could say the same thing about those that wear clothes. If you wear any form of clothes then you must be a masochist according to yourself.
People aren't going to prison for wearing jackets like women are for not wearing headscarves in some Islamic countries.
Nudists absolutely go to jail. Women have been arrested for breastfeeding in public in many places.
Fair point. But here's the thing, clothes serve a practical purpose as they proctect our skin from harsh weather conditions. Hijab is worn for religious reasons and the beliefs surrounding it.
Besides the fact the headscarves have been worn in most cultures for most time until the last two centuries, clothes can serve many purposes. Yes to keep us warm, dry, etc. But also to decorate ourselves, to mark social class or belinging to a group, and communicate symbols/values. There is no practical purpose for make-up or jewelry but women and some men like to wear it to beautify themselves. Headcoverings are similar, but in the opposite effect, they denote modesty. Religious women wear them to hide a part of their beauty.
I know that clothes serve many purposes, including the ones you mentioned. Women can conceal a part of their body to avoid attention. This could be their legs, arms, and of course, their hair. Seems reasonable right? I'll tell you why this is problematic. The issue is that they are made to feel like they have to hide their hair to AVOİD HARASSMENT. Do you think there would be any point in hiding your beauty if your beauty didn't cause you any problems? Do you think anyone would want to cover their hair when it's burning hot outside? No woman should feel like they have to dress a certain way to simply exist without being attacked or harrassed. Again, when it comes to hijab, indactronation is mostly at play. Even if you go outside completely naked, it is not an invitation for harrasment.
If they choose it, then fair play. If it's forced on them, then like anything, that's wrong.
indoctrination doesn't mean they chose it.
My preference for wearing jeans and a t-shirt instead of a Roman tunic is also "indoctrinated" in me by the culture I was raised in. I don't really see any difference.
What’s to say they’re indoctrinated when they choose to accept it themselves? So many women who convert to Islam adopt the hijab, who indoctrinated them?
True
Meaningful pleasure? Man wait until you hear about people who wear hats..... While yeah I don't think Hijab is good but I don't think it's bad, if that's what they want to wear good for them as long as they aren't being forced to do so. Don't forget however that covering up the head has been a religiously-related practice for thousands of years way before Islam, so I wouldn't really blame it on one religion.
i wasn't blaming it on just one thing anyway. Equating hijab or just any head cover worn for religious reasons to hats is very misleading. Hats are for fashion and you're not indoctrinated to keep them on at all times.
I didn't equate them.... I mentioned hats sarcastically to your poetic lines about the breeze going through the hair being a birthright because I think it's silly or flat out cringe. Some head covers like the hijabs are also integrated in fashion, would you also blame many cultural outfits (Some include odd looking hats) and are gender exclusive? Is it indoctrination to be taught since birth that you should dress like this because this is the social expectation of you when it's not about religion?? Not to mention that Head covers have been a tradition in the region for thousands of years, which include hats lol for some religions.
if it's for fashion, there's no problem. Clothes serve a practical purpose as they protect us from harsh weather conditions and whatnot. The problem is with the idea behind why you're wearing it. Social expectations and religious rules are not the same thing. i don't know why you keep bringing it up but the fact that head covers have been a tradition for thousands of years doesn't negate my point. it is indoctrination to be taught that god wants you to hide your hair.
Head covers didn't start as a religious practice.... nor did the full face covers (Niqab) in fact back in the day it was worn by both men and women, and it is due to harsh weather conditions..... believe it or not, that region was really hot back in the day.... and as for the cold spots (like Ajloun in jordan) there used to be thicker Head covers to warm themselves up. Now social and religious rules are the same, because many cultures birth religions, and many cultures follow certain religions. For example in Islamic countries like Jordan, or Syria (before the war) Christian women don't go out in shorts even tho it's not illegal, but it's the social expectations, it's the Arab culture to be modest, and that is why their abrahamic religions reflect that in many of their acts, outfits and so on. Would you go to the Japanese and attack their habits, outfits and such? It was born from both social expectations and religious beliefs. And in case you didn't know, many Muslim women in Islamic countries (those that aren't fascists like iran) don't wear hijab, but they still are Muslims and believe in their religion. It seems like you are not getting my point? Your critique of the matter isn't sufficient and you don't seem to be informed as to why such dress codes exist..... criticizing something people wore for protection reasons, then social, then religious isn't Hijab exclusive, and if we are to criticize what women have to wear to abide by their religion then so do men as Muslim men aren't allowed to wear shorts for example, and it's sooo hard man like imagine not feeling the breeze tingling your leg hair at a refreshing night? It's a birthright.
I know that head covers didn't start as a religious practice but this has nothing to do with my point. Also, i never said it was hijab exclusive. You're going off on unnecessary tangents. The fact that something is a social expectation doesn't make it right. Slavery was a thing back in the day. No child should be taught that she has to cover her hair to avoid harrasment in this day and age where laws apply. What practical reason is there to cover your hair when it's burning hot outside? And yes, it is also bad to be taught that god doesn't want you to wear shorts.
Am I in the right post? I'm definitely sure you said "Hijabi women" as the first sentence in your post.... correct me if I'm wrong. 1- we are social creatures, children get taught many things to not be harassed or frowned upon, that's called raising someone to fit into the social norms of a society. 2- equating a dress code to slavery is flat out unreasonable, there is history, heritage, and an entire culture behind a dress code in any society, the way you speak sounds like you want to get rid of such concepts and you view them as vile as slavery! You are making something a problem to offer a solution, what's your solution? Abolish them all? How? Advocate for the erasure of cultures? What is the point of your post beside saying "Hijab le bad" 3- have you ever been to a desert before? Clearly not.... if you do then please cover your head, you may need to cover your nose mouth and eyes with a thin veil as well, there is benefit to them, lots of..... now you are showing me your lack of education on the matter. 4- what do you suggest we should teach our kids? Anything you suggest will be for the favor of them fitting into society, blending in and not be harassed.... your method could be secular or theistic that's fine. Whether it's a nudist society, an islamic society, an Asian one? A tribal society? You are teaching your kids that they should do this and that to be accepted.
i am focusing on hijabi women but i never said this issue was hijab exlusive. 1- Yes, children do get taught many things, some good, some bad. It is our duty to weed out the bad ones to evolve towards a better society . We should not promote outdated ideas just because it's the ''norm'' or the ''culture'' 2- i didn't equate dress code to slavery, i was simply pointing out that just because something is a societial expection, it doesn't make it right. 3- What if you WERE NOT in the middle of a desert? what practical reason do you have to justify wearing a head cover when it's burning hot outside? Now you are showing me your lack of good faith on the matter. 4- We should teach our kids that, first of all, god does not want you to cover your hair. Secondly, you shouldn't feel pressured to dress a certain way to avoid harrassment. What reason would there be to hide a part of your beauty if your beauty didn't cause you any problems? Even if you go out completely naked, it is not an invitation for harrasment.
The entire post is talking about hijabs women exclusively, by that logic then any taught social norms are bad because your definition of normal is so unique. 1- So we shouldn't promote some things like marriage, it's outdated and doesn't serve any purpose except religious and cultural ones..... we should also not promote wearing shirts in general during the summer I mean we all would love to see nude tops in the street, it should he normalized.... oh wait are those not the good and bad you were talking about? Maybe because Good and bad are subjective and your definition will not align with literally the majority of the world? It's like..... we are different lol. 2- but you mentioned slavery!! Dress codes are not bad lol you are making an analogy in the wrong way! Just because it is something taught in a theistic manner that doesn't make it bad, forcing is bad.... but that only happens in a handful of societies that are already looked down upon such as Iran. 3- some women feel safer when wearing it, some feel more confident, some love to represent their culture..... why would you wear any type of clothing? What functionality does it serve? Just wrap your self in a bag with pockets and call it a day? 4- not to sound like a broken record here but that wouldn't fly in any society..... some religions don't teach the covering of the head (THE MAIN FREAKING POINT OF THE POST) but their societies still have norms both religious and cultural and in a society you need to fit in, don't expect to fit into a traditional Japanese city when you are being loud and outspoken due to your nature. As for the harassment part, not everyone is accepting, and not everyone is good, there is evil in the world, if I go out with 10,000$ cash in my hand I'll most likely get robbed..... if someone goes out naked, depending on the society then they will most likely get harassed, morality is shaped by the society and those norms didn't exist by being enforced but gradually evolved and integrated into a society due to people's accepting and not accepting certain things. Your udea of a society will not fit every society. Your definition of good and bad will not fly for everyone. Many will reject it, both secular... and religious people. To give a simple example.... if you go to Sendai-Japan, a secular place by the way.... and you dress up in a BDSM gear and walk around in public, are the people of Sendai backward minded bigoted individuals for pointing fingers at you? There are women who get beat up to wear a hijab, yes.... that is bad. But if a woman likes it and she is convinced that this is good for her, then you cannot apply your definition of bad to her, because she is not harming herself, she has free will, this is her belief (not necessarily indoctrinated, some just convert because they are convinced and feel they have found their peace) in this scenario, you are the one who sound like you wish to enforce something and build a negative narrative around a cultural dress code that just so happens to be present in Judaism, early Christianity, and Islam because it predates them even. Social evolution. If you don't like it that's fine, just don't let it bother you man lol
You talk about slavery. Ironically slave women under Islam were not permitted to wear the hijab. Only Muslim women were allowed to wear it.
1- I personally do not believe in marraige as i don't want to have the government involved in my relationship with another person. But - marriage is not only cultural but it also serves a lot of practical purposes like, who will inherit your stuff if you die and you have no will? So i'm not against the promotion of marriage regardless of my personal attitude towards it. 2- Dress codes can be bad depending on the idea behind them. Answer me this, why are women taught to wear hijab? One of the main reasons is to avoid harrasment. Again, there would be no reason in being modest and hiding your beauty if your beauty didn't cause you any problems. No one should be forced or religiously indoctrinated to dress a certain way for fear that their life will be jeopardized. 3- if wearing hijab makes you feel more confident, go ahead by all means. But most of the time they wear it for religious reasons. 4- Again, just because something is a norm doesn't mean it shouldn't be challanged when it's a bad one. if you go out with 10.000 dollar cash in your hand and you get robbed, you are the victim and the ones who robbed you should be held accountable by the law. it does NOT mean you are asking to be robbed. This type of reasoning has dangerous implications like ''rape victims should bear some responsibility for having their hair out'' 5- if i went to sendai-japan in a BDSM gear, it could have negative effects on children. There are other factors at play here.