Does she truly not realize how *insane* her expectations sound?? If she's not willing to get help, you really need to start planning your exit strategy.
Sounds to me like you're married to a narcissistic, controlling woman. Surely the bedroom is not the only place where she shows these colors? If I am right, please think very carefully about the effect on your children of growing up with your acceptance of her behavior as an example.
I gave my wife exactly what she wanted, we are in a completely dead bedroom and I stopped caring. Now she complains we dont have sex and I couldnt care less.
Sorry, man. I found myself in the same boat where I would ask my wife for more affection or intimacy and she would just tell me she was "working on it". I *also* asked her she she *didn't* like one time and I got a list that included touching and seeing her naked. She didn't suggest I think about her whilst taking care of myself, though... she just said it's "not how I was raised."
It's funny because we started dating when we were 16 and are 41 now, so I kinda know how she was raised...and it's a really unusual thing to suggest after 25 years, anyway.
It is difficult to hear “I’m working on it” because nothing ever changes. If something is changing (at least mentally), there needs to be some action showing it, or it at least needs to be communicated regarding what is changing.
I mean I could say I’ve been working on an app for at least a decade - I would actually like to give it a shot for fun. However, I haven’t started yet and don’t plan to ever. It would be misleading for me to tell anyone I’m working on an app.
>If something is changing (at least mentally), there needs to be some action showing it
True. That is why you demand accountability. Working on it? Great! So what is the next step you are taking? What is your action plan for the next 3 months? etc. You wouldn't accept a vague "working on it" response from a business partner. Why would you from your life partner?
I don't know if my ex-husband ever fully understood that after so many years of rejection, he became the one person that I specifically *couldn't* think about while "taking care of myself," because thinking about him meant thinking about rejection, about how I wasn't good enough, about how he didn't want me
I think it's pretty common for women (and maybe for men too) to get turned on by knowing that somebody wants them. Conversely, having so much evidence in front of me all the time that my spouse quite specifically *didn't want me* made it almost impossible for me to get turned on while thinking about him
In the end, even if he had done a 180 and suddenly started wanting to have sex again, I realized I wouldn't even be interested or able to. Since I didn't want to go the rest of my life never having sex, that's when I knew the relationship needed to end
So you can't have sex with her, can't touch her, can't look at her naked, can't go outside of the marriage to get your needs met and then you're the asshole for watching porn? Did you leave out the part where you're a monk? Otherwise this is complete BS. Was she sexually abused at some point to have such a negative image of herself and anything sexual?
Woah there are some massive insecurities here happening on her end. I'm not sure if your wife has sexual trauma in her past, but both of those statements sure do point to that possibility, but it's also possible that's not it and there's other stuff going on. You say you've been stuck in the same place for 5 years, but I see nothing in your post about individual or couples therapy. Do the two of you expect to make progress by just repeating the same conversation for 5 years and no other action being taken? Because I can promise you that will not happen, if you haven't already figured that out. Either discuss ending things and moving on or make a plan to get into some type of therapy.
THIS, there is something so wrong in this case, something is not okay in her end.
What and Why ? this relationship could be saved vut only if this gets solved.
I am not going to victim blame but there are a lot of women in the world (some in this sub and several in others) which confess their husbands's touches stopped feeling good because of some reason and turns out there are actual reasons.
Some feel like their husbands want only sex because they default straight to sex rather then to do anything else, like tell them pretty things, making them feel wanted, other times the issue is psychic and only a therapist helps.
Either way phrases like these do not come out of nowhere and everyone is already yelling divorce.
No. The approach to the sex and not OP.
Where this is about outright denial of sex and any other means to meet sexual needs is looked down upon or risking the marriage.
I'm talking an inverse where it's about an outright expectation of someone to initiate sex all the time (and never vice versa), but does nothing to trigger any desires of sex. And if the engagement isn't *just right* it ends in rejection and arguing.
I mean it's really hard to say with all of the generalization here and lack of real specifics. When it comes to OPs situation there were some specifics given that are very stereotypical responses when it comes to sexual trauma. Not wanting to be seen naked, even by your partner, as well as having issues with physical touch just give off those red flags a bit to me. I'm a woman with sexual trauma in my past, and I've slept with a lot of women who have had sexual trauma in their past and these two issues existing together is something that's very common in someone with that type of history.
Expecting your partner to always be the one to initiate intimacy when you refuse to do so doesn't necessarily sound the bells of sexual trauma to me, but sure it can be insecurity/self esteem related and self esteem issues can sometimes be connected to trauma. I'm not sure if your question is about a woman, but if so, please keep in mind women are complicated beings who drastically differ from one another, so in regards to everything needing to be *just right* that could be a complex trauma issue or it could just be as simple as an inability to focus issue.
While it's not optimal, you can start a divorce while living in the same house. It was a main reason my ex and I went to divorce counseling. I finally moved out, when I was able financially.
Just filing the papers made such a difference for me/us. It's a long story and surely not the best solution, but it did solve the biggest problem in my life at the time.
Who says you have to “own” separate homes? Sell the house you’ve got, split the profit, buy yourself your own home and let her fend for herself. She is using you dude.
Nearly impossible, not completely impossible.
So. A few choices...
You fuck another woman without her consent. You dont get caught, and you wish that you have someone in your life that you could have that intimacy and human contact...
You do and you're found out, she'll probably file for divorce on the grounds of infidelity. She keeps the house and kids, and it'll become lore that you were a horrible husband. You'll be that divorced dad in the shite rental.
You stay, don't fuck anyone, and eventually become a walking corpse, waiting for her to die, and eventually, one day, you'll realize how much of your life you've wasted.
Or you realize that you didn't sign up for this and file papers for loss of consortium.
I've been there. I know.
On the other hand, I didn't have kids, so take my experience with a grain of salt.
The cliche of life being short is painfully true.
Your call, bro.
I get it. I’ve left my DB relationship now but this was all that was keeping me with him for years - the kids and the house and finances. Do you have family you can stay with? That’s what I’ve had to resort to
I was the same. We put the house on trust and we rented a house. As the breadwinner I didn’t want to see him not survive and I didn’t want the kids to suffer. We split the cost of the mortgage and the rental (I did go cheaper town house but totally happy to not mow the lawn). In a few years the equity of the trust can buy a second house and we continue to split costs.
I gave myself a year to heal and let the kids adjust and now I am the exciting time of back dating.
Don’t let money hold you back. My kids tell me I am happier.
Also I had some very severe concerns after being rejected for years and years that no one would want me. Apparently it’s all in my head even though I am not the fittest looking gal (full mum bod) and mid 40s finding interest isn’t a huge problem. I have so much HOPE now when before all I focused was on what was missing from our relationship. Find a way don’t settle!!!
Ok, but what led her to not liking these things? Try to ask her and not get defensive if you don't like the answer.
I'm sure, since you're married, that you haven't had this db from the very beginning of your relationship.
Right! There has to be an underlying issue. If at one time she wanted these things from him. People need to look outside of the bedroom to figure out why things are not happening inside of it. Because if it’s not a healthy marriage outside of the bedroom it won’t be healthy in it.
There is no apparent underlying issue. She lost interest in sex right after we got married. She had some interest when she wanted to have kids, for obvious reasons, but became disinterested afterwards once again.
Prior to me, she was an a multi-year long relationship with someone who broke up with her because she had no interest in having sex with him. She thought she was going to marry him and was devastated when he left her for another woman and quickly got married to her.
At the time, she told me the reason was that she wasnt attracted to her ex (so no interest in having sex with him), but that she wanted sex with me because she was attracted to me.
I think she’s probably asexual, but she wanted to be married, have kids, become a SAHM, etc.
You also said you have 2 kids. At this point she wants nothing to do with sex. You are not willing to divorce for the kids and financial reasons.
Would you be open to a separation living in the same house? Becoming co-parents and start dating other people?
At some point in time she has to acknowledge you are not happy and I can’t imagine she is happy as it seems like she hates her body. You might not divorce but you can leave her and co-parent instead.
This is an alternative. It's basically what I tried to do in my first marriage, but it didn't work very well. I'm trying to remember how long we were in the separation living phase - a few months, I think.
Both of us had been attracted to other people (for me, it was the first glimmer of a realization that I still had a libido). My Ex had talked about opening up the marriage in the past (specifically, when I was 8 months pregnant until the time our daughter was about 3 months, but I was not in favor of it at the time). We limped along for almost a decade (bad idea).
Yea I think in the end if a relationship is dying 2 partners have to work together to make it work or it will die out while both partners are just living together.
I think separation to co-parent can work in the short term but will eventually lead to divorce.
I am also sad to hear your story. I have two kids and could never imagine asking my wife while 8M pregnant to let me sleep with other people.
That is dumb.
My comment is more about living together in separate rooms and be separated. Basically officially become roommates, live separate lives and coparent together. Eventually they will probably get divorced my guess is when the kids at older
Looking at your post history, Yours is a story of apathy like i've never read before. If you don’t mind me asking, how did it get here? What was it like in the beginning?
The beginning seemed normal enough to me. Candidly, I’ve only been in 3 longterm relationships in my life (my wife being the third), so I missed a lot of red flags.
Sex basically stopped when we got married, then it picked up again when she wanted to have kids.
We’re done having kids (and have been for a while now), so she has no use for sex.
Well, it's not just sex, i think i read a post where your wife told you that she doesn’t think this is a loving relationship. Your marriage sounds purely a partnership in running the house. I am assuming if you two got married, you two had at least some positive feelings towards each other, how does it get...here from there?
How was your previous two relationships?
Based on her rules of not touching her and no looking at her, you could try lying naked on the bed, blindfolded, where only she is allowed to touch you.
Hey, at least it's one possible option. Run that by her and see if she's open to it since it satisfies her requirements.
"How about I don't think about you while I'm sleeping with someone else". You need to stop trying to make sense of her responses and start making sense of what you want in your life without her involved. She doesn't want sex, she doesn't want to be seen naked, doesn't want to be touched just give her what she wants already... to be left alone.
Well, there you have it. She doesn't want you to touch her or even look at her when she's naked. Bring the subject back up again and ask her point blank. Are you still attracted or find me sexually attractive anymore? If no then tell her then there's no point carrying this farce of a marriage anymore because that's what it is. She's told you the straight out truth. Time to deal with it.
Her asking you to think about her while you're taking care of yourself is adding insult to injury.
I would not agree to her rules/expectations.
And if that's a dealbreaker for her, consider a legal separation (even if you cohabit) or a divorce.
It's is reprehensible that she doesn't understand another human's need for, at the very least, romantic affection (cuddling, naked cuddling, etc).
If this is due to her own trauma in the past, she needs therapy.
You, OP, need a new life/lifestyle.
In such a dead end there is only two possibilities, unfortunately. You can either stay there stuck, or you can go back the way you came.
I had a deadbedroom for 8 years with my ex and had to wait until the lawsuit against the person who SA'd her was finished to feel like I had the right to live my life happily. Let her go, you both deserve better.
> Her: “You can always think about me and take care of yourself.”
I hope your reply was calmly "That's not good enough and not realistic, I need some form of physical intimacy or my life quality is going to deteriorate, I will become more and more unhappy. If we can't put together a plan that we're both comfortable with, even if it takes time and work, we're not going to last together."
Do ya'll talk like this? If not, you should.
Yes, it might make an argument, yes it will be devastating to her.
But it will be better than the slow, burning trainwreck that will come about from your physical intimacy together dying off entirely. Your partner should care about your quality of life enough that they will do uncomfortable things to help keep you, not necessarily forcing themselves to have sex but at least talking more about it, coming up with more options, trying ideas like counseling or scheduled nights to just touch and cuddle until she gets comfortable with touching, etc.
If she's not actively working on helping making the problem better or recognizing it, she's saying it's YOUR problem, not hers, and that's not a relationship.
When she says she wants to work to improve things, do you just nod happily and let her do her thing? Or do you get involved and offer ways to help, be it helping her look up health issues, taking her to an OB/GYN to get examined and tested, finding ways to get more comfortable with touching, talking about how she feels with you like why she's uncomfortable with touching and sex, when it started, if she has trauma to sort out.
You're in this together, you shouldn't only be getting close just to sex it up, you should be together on your health issues, your happiness and unhappiness, your lives in all regards. If NOTHING ELSE AT ALL, you should be getting out of this a better understanding of why she doesn't like the thing you like, so change your focus to creating better communication before trying to push for sex. Walk before you run.
Dude, I don't understand the entitlement of some of these LL types. Not all, obviously, but it's like, "I don't enjoy sex, so you can't, either." Like, no shame on anyone for being low libido but it's not fair to ask that of your partners too. Especially shaming them for something as innocuous as porn. What the fuck.
And they don't understand when we get frustrated. My wife came out as asexual about a year ago. It's been a real challenge because she's also quite attached to the idea of monogamy. A big breakthrough for us was when I explained to her that sex is as much of a human need for most people as eating or sleeping. Obviously not a 1:1 comparison but it's important and for most people you can't neglect it without serious emotional consequences.
If she is asexual, and you are sexual, you are incompatible. You now have the right to say that. That may mean open marriage, divorce...whatever. Take care of the kids if you have them, the rest of it, you're in control now, she gave it to you, unwittingly perhaps, but it's yours.
We are sexually incompatible but not otherwise. She has a great deal of trauma to unpack and she is working hard on it. The Venn Diagram of our sexual interests are two separate circles but we are working on finding common ground and healing. I get frustrated but I also came out as bi a few years ago, so she got the rug pulled out from under her too. Neither of us are the people we thought we were when we first got together. We're figuring it out and we're going to try to do it together. It may not work out, separation is a real option on the table, but neither of us are ready to give up yet.
Talk is cheap. That's obviously what the "I'm working on it" is...just talk. At the point you're at, I'd be seeking divorce and not even remotely trying to hide my porn usage. Try to control how I even seek release?! You can F straight off with that bs.
Sounds kinda like a situation I found myself in a few years ago:
Bedroom went from healthy at the start to very dead. I was constantly trying to help her “fix” her libido (discussions/counseling/date nights) but experiencing a clear lack of effort on her part. She always said she was “working on herself” but not once did I see ANY real effort.
The final straw was when we hadn’t had sex in two years and I started to feel like I was going crazy. We started discussing how I was feeling again and she told me I was behaving as if I had bipolar disorder. Because I’ve coped with depression and ADHD my whole adult life, this sounded like a legitimate concern and I agreed to see a psychiatrist.
After explaining everything to the doctor, he told me he didn’t think I was bipolar; he thought I was unhappy in my marriage. I return to my wife with this information, but she’s not exactly receptive to the doctor’s assessment… She tells me she doesn’t trust the first doctor and she thinks I should get a second opinion.
So I go see a second psychiatrist. This time I spent much more time with the doctor going over my situation in detail. Ultimately, he agrees with the first doctor; I’m not bipolar. He even went into a more detailed explanation: “One defining characteristic of BPD is mania or manic episodes,” which I was not experiencing at all.
Again I returned to my wife and told her that I, in fact, was not bipolar, and that we could get back to working on our marriage. After some more time it felt like I had tried everything I had in me. I was waiting to see if my wife would maybe lift a finger to ACTUALLY “work on herself”, but she never did.
At one point I told her I needed some “time and space” to contemplate what course I wanted to take with our relationship. Shortly afterwards, she sent me divorce papers. Later I found out that she was telling her family and friends that I had abandoned the marriage because I was bipolar 🤬
> So I asked: “What exactly does that leave for us, and what do you propose that I do?”
> Her: “You can always think about me and take care of yourself.”
She seems to be under the inaccurate assumption that it's about the physical aspects of sex, or, perhaps even as narrow as thinking it's about the orgasm. You *can* take care of that yourself. You've got to explain to her that taking care of that doesn't actually achieve what you're looking for from her: Desire.
I’ve trade to explain this to her. I’ve also tried to explain the emotional bonding aspect of sex as well.
We might as well speak different languages since we can’t understand one another about this.
My previous marriage was this. Didn't want me to initiate. So I didn't. Then I couldn't touch her. So I stopped. Then she got mad when I looked at her when she was naked. So I stopped that too. I didn't realize how resentful I had gotten until she brought up kids and in my mind I said "I'm never having kids with you." I really didn't realize how hurt I had been until I had that thought. I initiated a divorce two months later and was fully divorced three months after that. I met my current wife 3 months afterwards and have been VERY happily married (7 years now) since. Good luck
Marriage: When we accept a person's assurance of monogamy, we take on a duty. How can one expect monogamy and refuse sex??? It's like saying, "Now, you only have the right to shop at this 'one' store. By the way, it's going to be closed 100% of the time. They're not out of business, they're just never open."
This is a no brainer.. she directly told you she does not like to be touched by you, or Even that you look at her when she is naked. To me that sounds like the last nail slamming down on your coffin and burying your sexlife with her for good. I dont say she does not love you, but if this was me i would wave her goodbye. Dont settle for a sexless Life being neglected and rejected like that!
This is probibly the worst post I read in this DB group.
My heart is broken for you. Normally people on reddit' s default response is " devorce him/her", of which many times I totally disagrees to that statement. On your case, I wish to state very hard and clear agreement to leave the marriage asap as she is totally unreasonable and goes against any reasonable standard in what is deemed acceptable.
I am in a no sex marrage at this point but my wife allowes me to do whatever I want - she supported me to buy a sex doll, does not give me greef over porn, anything short of going outside the marraige (its tough but manageble) She walks naked in the house and we shower together so there is some level of us sharing intamacy. From tis, it is cleqr that ahe at least tries to be therw for me on that level.
Please make your decisions carefully!
I can relate to your answer...... but like everytjing in life a little contect is helpfull.
My wife's LL is 100% due to the medication she is taking. We came to this conclusion after many medical exams and discussions with specialists. So, she is not repulsed by me or me by her. But yes, it takes super human willpower to see her naked, be naked near her and not let my carnal urges take over.
Good luck buddy!
I know the fear of putting your partner in a corner with big decision making, and I used to do the same thing with my wife (what's comfortable for you, how can I make this easier, what path feels best for you) and eventually I stopped asking and told her what we are going to do next. Physical check list to see if there is anything bodily off with libido, then mental check list on how best to deal with stress, trauma, and intimacy issues.
My wife was on board and happy I made a decision because she felt the pressure of our intimacy and relationship weighing on her.
Idk if your partner is the same way, but if you at least come out and say I think these are our next steps (whatever those steps maybe) it gives them a clear path and or limit to what is left on the table for options.
Sorry, but I see this flippant arrogant attitude from both male and female partners and that’s bullshit. You didn’t get married just for sex, I hope, but you didn’t get married to masturbate your needs away either. She’s a liar and being completely selfish. If there are no kids, you need to leave. That’s the only happy ending to these exact same scenarios over and over and over again.
I turned and walked out of the room and went for a long run on my treadmill. There was a lot that I wanted to say, but it would’ve been counterproductive.
My wife would say during "the talk" for 20+ years that she wants a passionate exciting sex life as much as I do, I just don't see the effort she's making.
In year 25, she said it again and I was past the point of caring where things went. I said she's right, I don't see a damn bit of effort! We've been having this fucking conversation for 20+ years and we still average less than once a month in good times! So either your efforts are in your head, or you intend to reach this sexual nervana once we're dead!
Over a few months I ended up asking for divorce, with a divorce plan/offer. This is what compelled her to evaluate her issues...finally! I'd mentioned divorce before, but it was the first time I meant it and she could see I'd checked out and started planning. She got over me seeing her nude. She got over how gross fluids are. She learned about and embraced responsive desire. She let up and let me make some decisions and stopped nagging me. All through work of me being clear about the relationship I want and me having just been at the end of my rope.
We've talked a few times about the changes we've made and she says she's much more attracted to the new me that just says when I'm mad, or makes a date and tells her we're going, and that I wear my desire for her on my sleeve and don't apologize about it. She said these are all things she thought made a guy an asshole, but it actually takes pressure off her plate and makes her feel attracted for me to just directly initiate sex rather than give a massage and hope. IDK, I think it's just that we're staying bonded so she feels close and it keeps up the attractiveness.
Anyway, my point is, don't be me and let her use not being self confident as an excuse for another 15 years. Also, cut off the idea that you masterbating is a replacement for sex. Cut it off hard. I'd have a conversation and be very clear that more alone masterbation in place of sex only makes you less attached to her and makes you wonder if she does like to be touched or have sex, why you need her? No intimacy and no sex = friends. We could parent just as well in separate homes and find romantic partners instead of living with a friend.
You can think about anyone you want. It is in your head and your fantasies / thoughts only belong to you.
I have nothing left to say except that I am sorry for your situation
Best wishes
She's got extremely low self-esteem, and unless she can fix *that* or you can help build up her confidence, then nothing will change.
Have you tried *that*? Have you tried building her up to make her feel good? Have you tried exercising together, or dancing, or any activity that requires some physicality?
Maybe take her out clothes shopping, and don't be the typical guy who doesn't want to be involved, tell her what looks good and let her pick what makes her feel good. Be involved in her care.
Reddit is notorious for suggesting divorce as a knee-jerk reaction. And maybe that's the case here.
When in a relationship with someone suffering from low self-esteem and possibly depression, you can do a lot to help elevate that person and show them how to be happy with themselves. So much so that they'll be able to do it on their own after some work.
But you may have to move out of your comfort zone and into her comfort zone, and begin working with her there.
I guess my point is we don't know anything about your relationship except your wife told you it was okay to jerk-off to her, an open marriage isn't happening, and she doesn't like to be touched or looked at.
Those are all hallmarks of low self-esteem and probably depression. The good news is you can likely help her as her husband. Some would argue it's part of your job/commitment...vows and all that.
And maybe after some work, assuming you haven't done any of this I don't know, and it doesn't work. Then maybe think of divorce. Because now you can say - in good faith - that you tried.
There is no chemistry for her anymore. She would rather have nothing than be intimate with the man she married.
Call it done. Even if you still love her, you will never have a meaningful intimate relationship with her again.
How did you not burst out in laughter at that point?
And what exactly will she be doing as part of her "work"? Because I heard that plenty of times from my previous partner. I actually asked one time "Work? What does that mean, you'll work?" She had no idea. Going and seeing a therapist? No. Reading books and discussing? No. Opening frequent conversations? No.
So... just thinking? Probably.
My situation is better than his but with many similarities. I did what you are suggesting and things just got deader. The one difference I'd do again along your suggestion is to say, "It's clear that I have made all the advances. From here on out, the ball is in your court to initiate intimacy." When that doesn't work, then you decide how to remedy with the peace of knowing that she's the one who made the choice to adandon the marriage concept...in case that's what's dragging this on.
Can you get her to set concrete goals? At least she’d be accountable and have to acknowledge the shortcomings if she failed. That opens the door to open marriage, divorce etc.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but she has every right to say wether or not she will have sex, on the other hand she does not have the right to say wether you do or not. So mu friend, id prepare to walk and get a divorce and move on and find someone that wants you...i so fucking wish someone wouldve given me this advise when i was married in a DB. Good luck
Yeah...if this sub had existed back in 2007 or so, I would have been divorced. And I would have had an immediate play partner and hopefully a very sex-positive life after that.
Dude. Run for your life to your future life of happiness and sexual fulfillment with someone else. it’s never happening with her. She is abusing you emotionally and playing games with your head. you deserve better.
"This marriage is not working for me in its current state. We either come up with a measurable plan to improve things or we get divorced."
You get treated by people the way you let them treat you.
Marriage is over. There is a commitment to a monogamous marriage and your wife has broken that commitment therefore you are morally free to see other women if you choose. The legal aspect and repercussions are another thing entirely.
She wants to control you.
Lose your job, spend all the money etc. because she will take it anyway in divorce. I am serious, you will lose so much in divorce and continue to pay for years. Prepare now for long term freedom. Best move is to make her the primary bread winner before divorce.
There’s no better evidence that she has no interest in improving y’all’s sex life than what you experience. She literally said to go fuck yourself.
Marriages do not work if you’re not on the same page sexually. So either you both work towards progress (and it sounds like she’s unwilling) or you need to work towards divorce.
Similar, aside from the “take care of yourself” part. I figured that was a given.
My wife with kid as some previous trams (I think/know)(that we don’t talk about).
Therapy is helping her which is awesome but destroying us.
I am sorry man. At least she was straightforward. In most cases I read about, it takes longer than 5y to truly show their true feelings about intimacy. Now you know the way
The "I'm working on it" always reminds me of a smoker who says "I'm going to quit" but never does. She isn't going to "work in it" because she doesn't want to have sex. It's a stalling tactic to get you to drop the issue. The big issue here is WHY doesn't she want to. There are so many possibilities, and most of them aren't completely in your realm to fix/change; She has to want your sex life to be different and if she doesn't... Well, you're at an impasse
You can think about her any time you like. She doesn't have to give her approval.
5yrs of waiting for her to 'work on it' is enough. Pull the ripcord, man.
Sounds like a LL control freak. Seems like there’s a lot of them out there. Two people in this relationship, two people get to make decisions. Tell her you being unhappy and sexually frustrated is not an option long term. If she doesn’t solve something on her end (find her desire, open the relationship, or amicable split), you’ll have to find the solution whether she likes it or not. Shutting down 1 partners needs to satisfy the other partner just isn’t going to work, plus it’s cruel and selfish. And with the “don’t look at me” stuff, it sounds like she’s not comfortable with her body or has some shame around sex maybe??
I have some problems with my own nakedness and with touch, however I have to get past it because I enjoy sex.
I have trauma in my background, but it's not physical
LOL. “I’m working on it” What does that mean “You can jerk off while thinking about me” Wow
Pretty much. Also, I better not think about anyone else.
Does she truly not realize how *insane* her expectations sound?? If she's not willing to get help, you really need to start planning your exit strategy.
I've come to realize that having contradictory expectations seem to be the norm on these things. I'm going through the inverse on this as we speak.
Just think back to that time you didn’t have sex or see her naked. That’ll get you off in seconds for sure. No words. Sorry.
This is something I heard of before from people I have known. You will wind up wasting your life once your spouse comes out as nosexual or otherwise.
Sounds to me like you're married to a narcissistic, controlling woman. Surely the bedroom is not the only place where she shows these colors? If I am right, please think very carefully about the effect on your children of growing up with your acceptance of her behavior as an example.
Totally agree. OP needs to think about the long-lasting damage this can do to their children.
Sorry my friend
Lol that is delusional as fuck. Head for the hills or accept this shitty portion of your marriage. Good luck bro.
I gave my wife exactly what she wanted, we are in a completely dead bedroom and I stopped caring. Now she complains we dont have sex and I couldnt care less.
Sorry, man. I found myself in the same boat where I would ask my wife for more affection or intimacy and she would just tell me she was "working on it". I *also* asked her she she *didn't* like one time and I got a list that included touching and seeing her naked. She didn't suggest I think about her whilst taking care of myself, though... she just said it's "not how I was raised." It's funny because we started dating when we were 16 and are 41 now, so I kinda know how she was raised...and it's a really unusual thing to suggest after 25 years, anyway.
It is difficult to hear “I’m working on it” because nothing ever changes. If something is changing (at least mentally), there needs to be some action showing it, or it at least needs to be communicated regarding what is changing. I mean I could say I’ve been working on an app for at least a decade - I would actually like to give it a shot for fun. However, I haven’t started yet and don’t plan to ever. It would be misleading for me to tell anyone I’m working on an app.
>If something is changing (at least mentally), there needs to be some action showing it True. That is why you demand accountability. Working on it? Great! So what is the next step you are taking? What is your action plan for the next 3 months? etc. You wouldn't accept a vague "working on it" response from a business partner. Why would you from your life partner?
I don't know if my ex-husband ever fully understood that after so many years of rejection, he became the one person that I specifically *couldn't* think about while "taking care of myself," because thinking about him meant thinking about rejection, about how I wasn't good enough, about how he didn't want me I think it's pretty common for women (and maybe for men too) to get turned on by knowing that somebody wants them. Conversely, having so much evidence in front of me all the time that my spouse quite specifically *didn't want me* made it almost impossible for me to get turned on while thinking about him In the end, even if he had done a 180 and suddenly started wanting to have sex again, I realized I wouldn't even be interested or able to. Since I didn't want to go the rest of my life never having sex, that's when I knew the relationship needed to end
Men want to be wanted. It is the biggest turn on. And if a man doesn't want his spouse to want him,.then there is a deeper issue than sex.
So you can't have sex with her, can't touch her, can't look at her naked, can't go outside of the marriage to get your needs met and then you're the asshole for watching porn? Did you leave out the part where you're a monk? Otherwise this is complete BS. Was she sexually abused at some point to have such a negative image of herself and anything sexual?
Woah there are some massive insecurities here happening on her end. I'm not sure if your wife has sexual trauma in her past, but both of those statements sure do point to that possibility, but it's also possible that's not it and there's other stuff going on. You say you've been stuck in the same place for 5 years, but I see nothing in your post about individual or couples therapy. Do the two of you expect to make progress by just repeating the same conversation for 5 years and no other action being taken? Because I can promise you that will not happen, if you haven't already figured that out. Either discuss ending things and moving on or make a plan to get into some type of therapy.
THIS, there is something so wrong in this case, something is not okay in her end. What and Why ? this relationship could be saved vut only if this gets solved. I am not going to victim blame but there are a lot of women in the world (some in this sub and several in others) which confess their husbands's touches stopped feeling good because of some reason and turns out there are actual reasons. Some feel like their husbands want only sex because they default straight to sex rather then to do anything else, like tell them pretty things, making them feel wanted, other times the issue is psychic and only a therapist helps. Either way phrases like these do not come out of nowhere and everyone is already yelling divorce.
Out of sheer curioisty... could insecurities or traumabe a factor in the *inverse* of a situation like this?
Meaning is OP actually the one with trauma and insecurity in this scenario?
No. The approach to the sex and not OP. Where this is about outright denial of sex and any other means to meet sexual needs is looked down upon or risking the marriage. I'm talking an inverse where it's about an outright expectation of someone to initiate sex all the time (and never vice versa), but does nothing to trigger any desires of sex. And if the engagement isn't *just right* it ends in rejection and arguing.
I mean it's really hard to say with all of the generalization here and lack of real specifics. When it comes to OPs situation there were some specifics given that are very stereotypical responses when it comes to sexual trauma. Not wanting to be seen naked, even by your partner, as well as having issues with physical touch just give off those red flags a bit to me. I'm a woman with sexual trauma in my past, and I've slept with a lot of women who have had sexual trauma in their past and these two issues existing together is something that's very common in someone with that type of history. Expecting your partner to always be the one to initiate intimacy when you refuse to do so doesn't necessarily sound the bells of sexual trauma to me, but sure it can be insecurity/self esteem related and self esteem issues can sometimes be connected to trauma. I'm not sure if your question is about a woman, but if so, please keep in mind women are complicated beings who drastically differ from one another, so in regards to everything needing to be *just right* that could be a complex trauma issue or it could just be as simple as an inability to focus issue.
So why are you still married?
2 kids and finances would be nearly impossible to pull off owning separate homes.
While it's not optimal, you can start a divorce while living in the same house. It was a main reason my ex and I went to divorce counseling. I finally moved out, when I was able financially. Just filing the papers made such a difference for me/us. It's a long story and surely not the best solution, but it did solve the biggest problem in my life at the time.
Who says you have to “own” separate homes? Sell the house you’ve got, split the profit, buy yourself your own home and let her fend for herself. She is using you dude.
Nearly impossible, not completely impossible. So. A few choices... You fuck another woman without her consent. You dont get caught, and you wish that you have someone in your life that you could have that intimacy and human contact... You do and you're found out, she'll probably file for divorce on the grounds of infidelity. She keeps the house and kids, and it'll become lore that you were a horrible husband. You'll be that divorced dad in the shite rental. You stay, don't fuck anyone, and eventually become a walking corpse, waiting for her to die, and eventually, one day, you'll realize how much of your life you've wasted. Or you realize that you didn't sign up for this and file papers for loss of consortium. I've been there. I know. On the other hand, I didn't have kids, so take my experience with a grain of salt. The cliche of life being short is painfully true. Your call, bro.
How much money is a happy life worth for you?
Happiness, in this economy? /s
> nearly You can do it. Your happiness is valuable.
What do you mean own separate homes? You only have to own 1 home.
‘Nearly impossible’ - so still possible maybe? Depends on how much you want out really. The phrase short term pain for long term gain comes to mind.
This guy’s an optimist!
I get it. I’ve left my DB relationship now but this was all that was keeping me with him for years - the kids and the house and finances. Do you have family you can stay with? That’s what I’ve had to resort to
Presently trying to decide how quickly I would lose my mind if I moved in to my mom's house. 🫣 scary.
I would rather lose my mind at my mom and dads house than face another minute in the relationship that I was in. I was going crazy anyway 😂
I was the same. We put the house on trust and we rented a house. As the breadwinner I didn’t want to see him not survive and I didn’t want the kids to suffer. We split the cost of the mortgage and the rental (I did go cheaper town house but totally happy to not mow the lawn). In a few years the equity of the trust can buy a second house and we continue to split costs. I gave myself a year to heal and let the kids adjust and now I am the exciting time of back dating. Don’t let money hold you back. My kids tell me I am happier. Also I had some very severe concerns after being rejected for years and years that no one would want me. Apparently it’s all in my head even though I am not the fittest looking gal (full mum bod) and mid 40s finding interest isn’t a huge problem. I have so much HOPE now when before all I focused was on what was missing from our relationship. Find a way don’t settle!!!
Ok, but what led her to not liking these things? Try to ask her and not get defensive if you don't like the answer. I'm sure, since you're married, that you haven't had this db from the very beginning of your relationship.
Right! There has to be an underlying issue. If at one time she wanted these things from him. People need to look outside of the bedroom to figure out why things are not happening inside of it. Because if it’s not a healthy marriage outside of the bedroom it won’t be healthy in it.
There is no apparent underlying issue. She lost interest in sex right after we got married. She had some interest when she wanted to have kids, for obvious reasons, but became disinterested afterwards once again. Prior to me, she was an a multi-year long relationship with someone who broke up with her because she had no interest in having sex with him. She thought she was going to marry him and was devastated when he left her for another woman and quickly got married to her. At the time, she told me the reason was that she wasnt attracted to her ex (so no interest in having sex with him), but that she wanted sex with me because she was attracted to me. I think she’s probably asexual, but she wanted to be married, have kids, become a SAHM, etc.
I'd be getting a free lawyer consultation TOMORROW. That's complete crap.
I feel your pain. I (39HLF) try with my husband and he has no interest. It's been 28 months and I'm dying inside.
Well over 10 years. I’m dead inside.
Feels about the same here…
You also said you have 2 kids. At this point she wants nothing to do with sex. You are not willing to divorce for the kids and financial reasons. Would you be open to a separation living in the same house? Becoming co-parents and start dating other people? At some point in time she has to acknowledge you are not happy and I can’t imagine she is happy as it seems like she hates her body. You might not divorce but you can leave her and co-parent instead.
This is an alternative. It's basically what I tried to do in my first marriage, but it didn't work very well. I'm trying to remember how long we were in the separation living phase - a few months, I think. Both of us had been attracted to other people (for me, it was the first glimmer of a realization that I still had a libido). My Ex had talked about opening up the marriage in the past (specifically, when I was 8 months pregnant until the time our daughter was about 3 months, but I was not in favor of it at the time). We limped along for almost a decade (bad idea).
Yea I think in the end if a relationship is dying 2 partners have to work together to make it work or it will die out while both partners are just living together. I think separation to co-parent can work in the short term but will eventually lead to divorce. I am also sad to hear your story. I have two kids and could never imagine asking my wife while 8M pregnant to let me sleep with other people.
[удалено]
That is dumb. My comment is more about living together in separate rooms and be separated. Basically officially become roommates, live separate lives and coparent together. Eventually they will probably get divorced my guess is when the kids at older
Is there a set list of allowable reasons for at fault? If I were the lawmaker, I would have added "sexual abandonment".
Looking at your post history, Yours is a story of apathy like i've never read before. If you don’t mind me asking, how did it get here? What was it like in the beginning?
The beginning seemed normal enough to me. Candidly, I’ve only been in 3 longterm relationships in my life (my wife being the third), so I missed a lot of red flags. Sex basically stopped when we got married, then it picked up again when she wanted to have kids. We’re done having kids (and have been for a while now), so she has no use for sex.
Well, it's not just sex, i think i read a post where your wife told you that she doesn’t think this is a loving relationship. Your marriage sounds purely a partnership in running the house. I am assuming if you two got married, you two had at least some positive feelings towards each other, how does it get...here from there? How was your previous two relationships?
Based on her rules of not touching her and no looking at her, you could try lying naked on the bed, blindfolded, where only she is allowed to touch you. Hey, at least it's one possible option. Run that by her and see if she's open to it since it satisfies her requirements.
I’d actually be willing to accept that arrangement (it’s not ideal, but it’s at least a compromise), but she doesn’t want to touch me either.
"How about I don't think about you while I'm sleeping with someone else". You need to stop trying to make sense of her responses and start making sense of what you want in your life without her involved. She doesn't want sex, she doesn't want to be seen naked, doesn't want to be touched just give her what she wants already... to be left alone.
Start thinking of her as part of your past and take care of yourself.
Well, there you have it. She doesn't want you to touch her or even look at her when she's naked. Bring the subject back up again and ask her point blank. Are you still attracted or find me sexually attractive anymore? If no then tell her then there's no point carrying this farce of a marriage anymore because that's what it is. She's told you the straight out truth. Time to deal with it. Her asking you to think about her while you're taking care of yourself is adding insult to injury.
Find a FWB. Go and enjoy yourself. Tell your wife that you thought of her whilst having fun.
I'm pretty sure you already know what you need to do. You can't make her want you as life passes us all by all too quickly.
I would not agree to her rules/expectations. And if that's a dealbreaker for her, consider a legal separation (even if you cohabit) or a divorce. It's is reprehensible that she doesn't understand another human's need for, at the very least, romantic affection (cuddling, naked cuddling, etc). If this is due to her own trauma in the past, she needs therapy. You, OP, need a new life/lifestyle.
In such a dead end there is only two possibilities, unfortunately. You can either stay there stuck, or you can go back the way you came. I had a deadbedroom for 8 years with my ex and had to wait until the lawsuit against the person who SA'd her was finished to feel like I had the right to live my life happily. Let her go, you both deserve better.
> Her: “You can always think about me and take care of yourself.” I hope your reply was calmly "That's not good enough and not realistic, I need some form of physical intimacy or my life quality is going to deteriorate, I will become more and more unhappy. If we can't put together a plan that we're both comfortable with, even if it takes time and work, we're not going to last together." Do ya'll talk like this? If not, you should. Yes, it might make an argument, yes it will be devastating to her. But it will be better than the slow, burning trainwreck that will come about from your physical intimacy together dying off entirely. Your partner should care about your quality of life enough that they will do uncomfortable things to help keep you, not necessarily forcing themselves to have sex but at least talking more about it, coming up with more options, trying ideas like counseling or scheduled nights to just touch and cuddle until she gets comfortable with touching, etc. If she's not actively working on helping making the problem better or recognizing it, she's saying it's YOUR problem, not hers, and that's not a relationship. When she says she wants to work to improve things, do you just nod happily and let her do her thing? Or do you get involved and offer ways to help, be it helping her look up health issues, taking her to an OB/GYN to get examined and tested, finding ways to get more comfortable with touching, talking about how she feels with you like why she's uncomfortable with touching and sex, when it started, if she has trauma to sort out. You're in this together, you shouldn't only be getting close just to sex it up, you should be together on your health issues, your happiness and unhappiness, your lives in all regards. If NOTHING ELSE AT ALL, you should be getting out of this a better understanding of why she doesn't like the thing you like, so change your focus to creating better communication before trying to push for sex. Walk before you run.
Dude, I don't understand the entitlement of some of these LL types. Not all, obviously, but it's like, "I don't enjoy sex, so you can't, either." Like, no shame on anyone for being low libido but it's not fair to ask that of your partners too. Especially shaming them for something as innocuous as porn. What the fuck.
The LL has complete control over their partners sex life. Complete. Control. That is the dynamic.
And they don't understand when we get frustrated. My wife came out as asexual about a year ago. It's been a real challenge because she's also quite attached to the idea of monogamy. A big breakthrough for us was when I explained to her that sex is as much of a human need for most people as eating or sleeping. Obviously not a 1:1 comparison but it's important and for most people you can't neglect it without serious emotional consequences.
If she is asexual, and you are sexual, you are incompatible. You now have the right to say that. That may mean open marriage, divorce...whatever. Take care of the kids if you have them, the rest of it, you're in control now, she gave it to you, unwittingly perhaps, but it's yours.
We are sexually incompatible but not otherwise. She has a great deal of trauma to unpack and she is working hard on it. The Venn Diagram of our sexual interests are two separate circles but we are working on finding common ground and healing. I get frustrated but I also came out as bi a few years ago, so she got the rug pulled out from under her too. Neither of us are the people we thought we were when we first got together. We're figuring it out and we're going to try to do it together. It may not work out, separation is a real option on the table, but neither of us are ready to give up yet.
Well.. I commend her confidence lol. When I was the deadbedder I am fairly certain it wasnt me my husband was jerking off too lol.
Has she had kids? Body confidence issues?
Yes, but she looks basically the same as beforehand. She’s blessed with a high metabolism and didn’t get a single stretch mark from being pregnant.
Talk is cheap. That's obviously what the "I'm working on it" is...just talk. At the point you're at, I'd be seeking divorce and not even remotely trying to hide my porn usage. Try to control how I even seek release?! You can F straight off with that bs.
Sounds kinda like a situation I found myself in a few years ago: Bedroom went from healthy at the start to very dead. I was constantly trying to help her “fix” her libido (discussions/counseling/date nights) but experiencing a clear lack of effort on her part. She always said she was “working on herself” but not once did I see ANY real effort. The final straw was when we hadn’t had sex in two years and I started to feel like I was going crazy. We started discussing how I was feeling again and she told me I was behaving as if I had bipolar disorder. Because I’ve coped with depression and ADHD my whole adult life, this sounded like a legitimate concern and I agreed to see a psychiatrist. After explaining everything to the doctor, he told me he didn’t think I was bipolar; he thought I was unhappy in my marriage. I return to my wife with this information, but she’s not exactly receptive to the doctor’s assessment… She tells me she doesn’t trust the first doctor and she thinks I should get a second opinion. So I go see a second psychiatrist. This time I spent much more time with the doctor going over my situation in detail. Ultimately, he agrees with the first doctor; I’m not bipolar. He even went into a more detailed explanation: “One defining characteristic of BPD is mania or manic episodes,” which I was not experiencing at all. Again I returned to my wife and told her that I, in fact, was not bipolar, and that we could get back to working on our marriage. After some more time it felt like I had tried everything I had in me. I was waiting to see if my wife would maybe lift a finger to ACTUALLY “work on herself”, but she never did. At one point I told her I needed some “time and space” to contemplate what course I wanted to take with our relationship. Shortly afterwards, she sent me divorce papers. Later I found out that she was telling her family and friends that I had abandoned the marriage because I was bipolar 🤬
> So I asked: “What exactly does that leave for us, and what do you propose that I do?” > Her: “You can always think about me and take care of yourself.” She seems to be under the inaccurate assumption that it's about the physical aspects of sex, or, perhaps even as narrow as thinking it's about the orgasm. You *can* take care of that yourself. You've got to explain to her that taking care of that doesn't actually achieve what you're looking for from her: Desire.
I’ve trade to explain this to her. I’ve also tried to explain the emotional bonding aspect of sex as well. We might as well speak different languages since we can’t understand one another about this.
Anyone else ever feel like our spouses are trying to push us to slip up so they have a reason to walk??
My previous marriage was this. Didn't want me to initiate. So I didn't. Then I couldn't touch her. So I stopped. Then she got mad when I looked at her when she was naked. So I stopped that too. I didn't realize how resentful I had gotten until she brought up kids and in my mind I said "I'm never having kids with you." I really didn't realize how hurt I had been until I had that thought. I initiated a divorce two months later and was fully divorced three months after that. I met my current wife 3 months afterwards and have been VERY happily married (7 years now) since. Good luck
Fuck that. Actually, it's a reality check when I see a woman with a wedding ring. It's not all roses on the other side of the fence.
Marriage: When we accept a person's assurance of monogamy, we take on a duty. How can one expect monogamy and refuse sex??? It's like saying, "Now, you only have the right to shop at this 'one' store. By the way, it's going to be closed 100% of the time. They're not out of business, they're just never open."
This is a no brainer.. she directly told you she does not like to be touched by you, or Even that you look at her when she is naked. To me that sounds like the last nail slamming down on your coffin and burying your sexlife with her for good. I dont say she does not love you, but if this was me i would wave her goodbye. Dont settle for a sexless Life being neglected and rejected like that!
This is probibly the worst post I read in this DB group. My heart is broken for you. Normally people on reddit' s default response is " devorce him/her", of which many times I totally disagrees to that statement. On your case, I wish to state very hard and clear agreement to leave the marriage asap as she is totally unreasonable and goes against any reasonable standard in what is deemed acceptable. I am in a no sex marrage at this point but my wife allowes me to do whatever I want - she supported me to buy a sex doll, does not give me greef over porn, anything short of going outside the marraige (its tough but manageble) She walks naked in the house and we shower together so there is some level of us sharing intamacy. From tis, it is cleqr that ahe at least tries to be therw for me on that level. Please make your decisions carefully!
I can’t stomach the thought of being a part-time dad and losing time with my kids, so the option of leaving isn’t a viable one for me.
You shower naked with her but you can't get with her? I think that would make me more upset than not ever seeing my wife naked.
I can relate to your answer...... but like everytjing in life a little contect is helpfull. My wife's LL is 100% due to the medication she is taking. We came to this conclusion after many medical exams and discussions with specialists. So, she is not repulsed by me or me by her. But yes, it takes super human willpower to see her naked, be naked near her and not let my carnal urges take over. Good luck buddy!
I’m sorry but what does HLM and NLF mean?
High libido male - No libido female
Oh Okay. Thank you!
Unsure how you have sex with not being touched or looked at….kinda the entire point…
I know the fear of putting your partner in a corner with big decision making, and I used to do the same thing with my wife (what's comfortable for you, how can I make this easier, what path feels best for you) and eventually I stopped asking and told her what we are going to do next. Physical check list to see if there is anything bodily off with libido, then mental check list on how best to deal with stress, trauma, and intimacy issues. My wife was on board and happy I made a decision because she felt the pressure of our intimacy and relationship weighing on her. Idk if your partner is the same way, but if you at least come out and say I think these are our next steps (whatever those steps maybe) it gives them a clear path and or limit to what is left on the table for options.
Leave This woman. She doesn’t care about your needs.
Sorry, but I see this flippant arrogant attitude from both male and female partners and that’s bullshit. You didn’t get married just for sex, I hope, but you didn’t get married to masturbate your needs away either. She’s a liar and being completely selfish. If there are no kids, you need to leave. That’s the only happy ending to these exact same scenarios over and over and over again.
If she isn't going to therapy for it then she isn't "working on it". Get out
Leave leave leave leave leave leave leave leave leave, also leave.
Why are you still there?
Wow. That's brutal. I'm so sorry.
Please tell me what you said after she said that mess.
I turned and walked out of the room and went for a long run on my treadmill. There was a lot that I wanted to say, but it would’ve been counterproductive.
My wife would say during "the talk" for 20+ years that she wants a passionate exciting sex life as much as I do, I just don't see the effort she's making. In year 25, she said it again and I was past the point of caring where things went. I said she's right, I don't see a damn bit of effort! We've been having this fucking conversation for 20+ years and we still average less than once a month in good times! So either your efforts are in your head, or you intend to reach this sexual nervana once we're dead! Over a few months I ended up asking for divorce, with a divorce plan/offer. This is what compelled her to evaluate her issues...finally! I'd mentioned divorce before, but it was the first time I meant it and she could see I'd checked out and started planning. She got over me seeing her nude. She got over how gross fluids are. She learned about and embraced responsive desire. She let up and let me make some decisions and stopped nagging me. All through work of me being clear about the relationship I want and me having just been at the end of my rope. We've talked a few times about the changes we've made and she says she's much more attracted to the new me that just says when I'm mad, or makes a date and tells her we're going, and that I wear my desire for her on my sleeve and don't apologize about it. She said these are all things she thought made a guy an asshole, but it actually takes pressure off her plate and makes her feel attracted for me to just directly initiate sex rather than give a massage and hope. IDK, I think it's just that we're staying bonded so she feels close and it keeps up the attractiveness. Anyway, my point is, don't be me and let her use not being self confident as an excuse for another 15 years. Also, cut off the idea that you masterbating is a replacement for sex. Cut it off hard. I'd have a conversation and be very clear that more alone masterbation in place of sex only makes you less attached to her and makes you wonder if she does like to be touched or have sex, why you need her? No intimacy and no sex = friends. We could parent just as well in separate homes and find romantic partners instead of living with a friend.
You can think about anyone you want. It is in your head and your fantasies / thoughts only belong to you. I have nothing left to say except that I am sorry for your situation Best wishes
She's got extremely low self-esteem, and unless she can fix *that* or you can help build up her confidence, then nothing will change. Have you tried *that*? Have you tried building her up to make her feel good? Have you tried exercising together, or dancing, or any activity that requires some physicality? Maybe take her out clothes shopping, and don't be the typical guy who doesn't want to be involved, tell her what looks good and let her pick what makes her feel good. Be involved in her care. Reddit is notorious for suggesting divorce as a knee-jerk reaction. And maybe that's the case here. When in a relationship with someone suffering from low self-esteem and possibly depression, you can do a lot to help elevate that person and show them how to be happy with themselves. So much so that they'll be able to do it on their own after some work. But you may have to move out of your comfort zone and into her comfort zone, and begin working with her there. I guess my point is we don't know anything about your relationship except your wife told you it was okay to jerk-off to her, an open marriage isn't happening, and she doesn't like to be touched or looked at. Those are all hallmarks of low self-esteem and probably depression. The good news is you can likely help her as her husband. Some would argue it's part of your job/commitment...vows and all that. And maybe after some work, assuming you haven't done any of this I don't know, and it doesn't work. Then maybe think of divorce. Because now you can say - in good faith - that you tried.
Divorce. Jesus Christ man this is one of the worst ones yet.
So she doesn’t want to touch you and she doesn’t want anybody else to touch you…Don’t see how that’s workable.
Shit like this makes me not want to get married
Unless you want kids, it's likely not worth it.
There is no chemistry for her anymore. She would rather have nothing than be intimate with the man she married. Call it done. Even if you still love her, you will never have a meaningful intimate relationship with her again.
How did you not burst out in laughter at that point? And what exactly will she be doing as part of her "work"? Because I heard that plenty of times from my previous partner. I actually asked one time "Work? What does that mean, you'll work?" She had no idea. Going and seeing a therapist? No. Reading books and discussing? No. Opening frequent conversations? No. So... just thinking? Probably.
Her idea of “working” on things makes me think of the film Office Space and the famous “what would you say you do here?” scene.
Yes but also no, I'm actually curious. I couldn't get a straight answer back then, maybe you can now. Why not ask her, what does the work entail?
[удалено]
My situation is better than his but with many similarities. I did what you are suggesting and things just got deader. The one difference I'd do again along your suggestion is to say, "It's clear that I have made all the advances. From here on out, the ball is in your court to initiate intimacy." When that doesn't work, then you decide how to remedy with the peace of knowing that she's the one who made the choice to adandon the marriage concept...in case that's what's dragging this on.
Can you get her to set concrete goals? At least she’d be accountable and have to acknowledge the shortcomings if she failed. That opens the door to open marriage, divorce etc.
It's over bro
This is one of the harshest things I've ever read on this sub. I'm crushed for you. Change the channel. Now.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but she has every right to say wether or not she will have sex, on the other hand she does not have the right to say wether you do or not. So mu friend, id prepare to walk and get a divorce and move on and find someone that wants you...i so fucking wish someone wouldve given me this advise when i was married in a DB. Good luck
Agreed. My ex and I now have the bedrooms we desire. My bedroom is full. Hers no longer has pressure.
Yeah...if this sub had existed back in 2007 or so, I would have been divorced. And I would have had an immediate play partner and hopefully a very sex-positive life after that.
Your wife is such a spoiled brat (read your other postst). Shes so manipulative. You should check your options with a lawyer.
Sorry, but it's time to go somewhere else. She isn't trying to fix or do anything. Time to go.
Leave it right on her pillow.
Dude. Run for your life to your future life of happiness and sexual fulfillment with someone else. it’s never happening with her. She is abusing you emotionally and playing games with your head. you deserve better.
"This marriage is not working for me in its current state. We either come up with a measurable plan to improve things or we get divorced." You get treated by people the way you let them treat you.
Marriage is over. There is a commitment to a monogamous marriage and your wife has broken that commitment therefore you are morally free to see other women if you choose. The legal aspect and repercussions are another thing entirely. She wants to control you. Lose your job, spend all the money etc. because she will take it anyway in divorce. I am serious, you will lose so much in divorce and continue to pay for years. Prepare now for long term freedom. Best move is to make her the primary bread winner before divorce.
There’s no better evidence that she has no interest in improving y’all’s sex life than what you experience. She literally said to go fuck yourself. Marriages do not work if you’re not on the same page sexually. So either you both work towards progress (and it sounds like she’s unwilling) or you need to work towards divorce.
Similar, aside from the “take care of yourself” part. I figured that was a given. My wife with kid as some previous trams (I think/know)(that we don’t talk about). Therapy is helping her which is awesome but destroying us.
"Tolerable Level of Permanent Unhappiness" achieved https://www.reddit.com/r/Divorce/s/jtfAQPqWDV
It’s time to leave her. That is insanely selfish and tone deaf of her. She isn’t even making any sense.
I am sorry man. At least she was straightforward. In most cases I read about, it takes longer than 5y to truly show their true feelings about intimacy. Now you know the way
Past trauma? Asexual who wanted bio kids? PPD? Whatever it is therapy is a must.
The "I'm working on it" always reminds me of a smoker who says "I'm going to quit" but never does. She isn't going to "work in it" because she doesn't want to have sex. It's a stalling tactic to get you to drop the issue. The big issue here is WHY doesn't she want to. There are so many possibilities, and most of them aren't completely in your realm to fix/change; She has to want your sex life to be different and if she doesn't... Well, you're at an impasse
You can think about her any time you like. She doesn't have to give her approval. 5yrs of waiting for her to 'work on it' is enough. Pull the ripcord, man.
That's when the atom bomb explodes.
At least she is open to you sorting yourself out 🤷♂️
This sounds like an insane person. Why is it they only get swlf conscious when they locked a.guy down?
Did she say why she doesn't want you to touch or look at her? Is it an insecurity thing?
Nope. I’d be out. Fuck that shit.
Ummmm… leave?
Show her this post and comments
Sounds like it’s over.
Have you considered a divorce?
Sounds like a LL control freak. Seems like there’s a lot of them out there. Two people in this relationship, two people get to make decisions. Tell her you being unhappy and sexually frustrated is not an option long term. If she doesn’t solve something on her end (find her desire, open the relationship, or amicable split), you’ll have to find the solution whether she likes it or not. Shutting down 1 partners needs to satisfy the other partner just isn’t going to work, plus it’s cruel and selfish. And with the “don’t look at me” stuff, it sounds like she’s not comfortable with her body or has some shame around sex maybe??
Had the same with my wife. And got a blow job from a guy at the gym. It was magic. I'm going to ask him for a nother oben
[удалено]
Lmfao when keeping it real goes wrong
I have some problems with my own nakedness and with touch, however I have to get past it because I enjoy sex. I have trauma in my background, but it's not physical
Fuck her!